transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] All America, all the time. Sit down, buckle up, and get ready for The Dan Bongino Show.

Speaker 2:
[00:10] Hey, a big thank you right out of the gate. I, again, cannot possibly thank the best audience in the business enough. Everything is due to you guys. I can only listen to the show once when I do it. I don't go back and listen to myself again. So the Triton rankings came out, and you know, a lot of these rankings are different things, downloads, live viewers. But I'm really proud and happy to say we popped in the March rankings, March 2026. Number three, thanks to you all. The Doomers, of course, went crazy. The Doomers and Black Pillars, they just it is just like a tick in them. It won't go away. It burrowed in. I'm sorry, Doomers. I'm sorry you're so Bongino centric in your life that everything revolves around me in your life. I realize I own you guys. I get that. I don't want to own you guys. I don't want to go. It's like a jalopy car. You don't want anymore. I don't. I've tried to donate and give it away. I don't want it. However, they're there. I own you guys. I know you're upset. I saw the meltdowns. Every single month, they come out with a new story. Did you see it? Like the first show, the second show, forget it. The third week, no. The second month. And then some guy asked me, Well, what about the April numbers? I don't know, dipshit. April's not over yet. Are you that stupid? April, they don't measure April numbers till April ends. Is it the end of April? It isn't, right? I'm not crazy, correct? It hasn't ended yet, the month. Let me look just to be sure I'm not crazy. No, it hasn't. That's so weird. So thank you to everybody. I love you guys. Hey, listen, on a serious note, I do have something to show you today. That's why it's the title of the show. You want to see why the Southern Poverty Law Center indictment is such a big deal. I promise you, I'm going to put together some pieces to you today for something you may have missed. And you're going to see why recognizing an op as it's happening is so important. Because if you do if you recognize the op too late, you get the Biden presidency. I promise you, I'm going to put this together. And some of you will see where I'm going with this early. Some of you won't. But after I'm done, it is going to be. The whole Biden presidency was an op. And now you're going to see it all. I'll lay it out for you piece by piece. I've got that. And just some kind of inspirational words for you. Because I know some people, I got a lot of wonderful supporters out there in the Bongino Arm. I feel like it feels like a big family. I get it with the Do-Mers and mess with them. They're just a bunch of bots, whatever, overseas. However, don't run away from any of these fights. Folks, you were born as some very special blood. And the more I dig into this unbelievable country and how we got here, the more it just warms my heart every day. How proud I am to be in the greatest club in the world, Club America. Today's show brought to you by Byrna. 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It tells you everything you need to know. Many people are worried, so they're getting prepared. The question is, are you? Because there seems to be a lot of instability out there right now. And who knows who will save you if it goes sideways? The answer is you. You're responsible for yourself and your family. Don't wait for someone else to bail you out. My friends at My Patriot Spy, they'll help you. They've been with me since the beginning. The original Patriot Preparedness Company. Whatever you need for preparedness, they have it for you. Right now at preparewithdan.com, when you get a three month emergency food kit, they'll include a free mega protein upgrade, an incredible $200 bonus. It's a great deal. Help you and your family survive a crisis. Go to preparewithdan.com. Get your emergency food supply handled today. Please don't wait. That's preparewithdan.com. Let's go. I've got another special announcement for you today. Ready? Today's going to be, if you're watching VOD, you'll notice, wow, the show is really long today. The show is going to be very, because we have a guest coming in. We're going to take our time with today. I love my health hacks and I know you do too. So I have the fantastic Dr. Rhonda Patrick, one of the best, you may have seen her on TikTok and Twitter, one of the best health, I don't want to say influencer, but health educators out there. I'm going to give you every life hack I use and get an expert to talk about it. Everything from sauna to cold plunge to recommended supplements to do I use creatine? Do I not use creatine? What about omega-3s? This is going to be a fantastic, fantastic episode. So stay tuned for the entire thing. I promise you're going to love it. It's so clippable too. It's going to be amazing. Listen, man, yesterday it's funny, this ranker came out and I saw it on an alert. Someone sent it to me and said, Hey, congrats. So listen, I appreciate it. And we run a show, we run a business. I'm very proud. The fact that we have eyeballs and earlobes and I'm honored to be here. However, because of some of my political stances on a variety of issues, the show is a target of the Doomer and Black Pillar class. They just, their entire life is trying to destroy the show and they just keep getting their balls kicked at it. It just, I'm serious, this drives them crazy because we just keep succeeding. So it's driving them nuts. And a couple folks reached out to me yesterday like, this has to get old sometime dealing with these losers. I said, oh, I said, man, do you understand? This is like an X battle with a bunch of bots. This isn't a thing. This isn't even remotely stressful compared to what our forefathers did. The more I dig into this country and its history, man, we hear about all these legendary exploits of our forefathers and stuff, but some of them get lost because this is such an amazing, powerful country. You were born of revolutionary blood, man. You live in the most amazing place on earth at the most amazing time because a generation of heroes in a series of world wars, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War, 1812, the Western Front in the Revolutionary War, they fought for you to give you this land for you and your grandkids. The Twitter fights are that kind of bullshit is that. I was thinking yesterday, I'm sitting around my house and I just, I love this, you know, we all know about the Alamo, we know about Iwo Jima, but you know, it's a battle that a lot of people don't talk about much. I want you to look this up. I'm not here to give you a home mark. I'm just telling you, you want to be unbelievably proud of your country and your forefathers. How many people in the chat know about the Battle of Boonesboro in Kentucky territory back in the late 1700s? That was the Western Front in the Revolutionary War. Forty frontiersmen in an 11-day siege by the Shawnee and Blackfish, overwhelmed by about 400 Shawnee and British supporting them with weapons and everything. About 40 men and women in a little fort protected by basically wood spite logs. That was it. Tried to burn them out, tried to tunnel in. And these 40 took on these 400 Shawnee who after 11 days just gave up because they couldn't take the fort because they had balls and stones. I don't know why that popped into my head yesterday. Daniel Boone and these frontier warriors. You want to talk about balls and nerve and guts and grit. That's the United States of America. Those are your forefathers. Those are the people who you live in Kentucky today. Well, you can thank those 40, those 40 men and women who held out for 11 days in the Siege of Boonesboro. And we're worried about Twitter fights with a bunch of Pakistani bots. Come on, that's not a thing. You live in the greatest country on Earth. There may be a real fight ahead. We got real problems. Twitter fights with Pakistani bots are not wonderful. Folks, I don't know if you caught this yesterday. But this is a tutorial in an op that cost us four years and cost us a lot. The Joe Biden presidency, I made the case to you. Why are we still talking about the Joe Biden presidency? Because we're still living with the legacy of it between regulations, the weaponization of government, everything that the laws that were passed, the garbage he pushed through. This was a big problem. What if I told you today the entire Biden presidency was an op? We know that, Dan, do you? You may know that, but you know how it happened. Now, with this indictment, I'm starting to ask some questions you should be asking yourself too. Let's walk through it one by one. I want to start with this to get the show started with a bang. Did you see the five yesterday? Greg Gutfeld. I love Greg. Greg was in rare form yesterday, even for Greg. I'm a huge fan. I don't know if you caught this, but this thing went absolutely nuclear yesterday. Here's Gutfeld, about a minute clip. He's talking about, he's arguing with Jessica Tarloff, the liberal on The Five, and he's trying to make the case, and he does an unbelievable job. Not trying, he makes the case, that, and I can attest to this, that about 95 plus percent, and that may be being nice, of what you see in the liberal race war against America is manufactured racism. I'm not telling you racism doesn't exist. I'm not telling you it's not a problem we should vigorously combat. And that applies to any race, white, black, green, blue, doesn't matter. I'm just telling you a lot of what you see is manufactured racism and people in America who love their neighbors, who are black and white and Jewish and Muslim, Arab, Persian, Christian, Protestant, people are getting tired of being told all the time how they're either supposed to hate people or people hate them. They're, I'm not going to curse, I'm really trying. They're effing tired of it. They just want to go to their kids' kindergarten get together with the parents who may be black or Spanish or whatever. And they don't want to be thinking all the time about how they're hated or supposed to hate someone. They're tired of hearing about it. Here's Gutfeld just like burning the barn down. One of the best one minute clips I've seen in a long time. This will put you in a mood. Check this out.

Speaker 3:
[12:57] Probably is a bigot somewhere. But you guys created a false flag that there was this immense movement going on in this country that then put targets on people like Charlie Kirk's back. And he's dead. And a lot of other people were either threatened, physically attacked because of a false flag, which painted an entire basically millions of people as white supremacists. You guys ran with it. Imagine if Trump had not won and Kamala Harris had won. Imagine where the SPLC would be now. Imagine how torn apart this country would be. By the way, I hope that this thing mends but I don't know because there are people like you, Jessica, who have such a sunk cost in this belief that you were, this is a belief you were tricked into believing to think that there's all of, there's all these races hiding behind every cracker barrel. No, you know where the racists were? They were the anti-racist black activists who saw this as a way to go after whites.

Speaker 2:
[13:59] Hat tip real AF patriot on X who cut that and put that's obviously the five, but put the subtitles in it. Deanna Rumble says you're doing great with the language. It's got to be tough. It is in moments like this because I so want to unload on these people. Folks, listen to me, please beam in, man, two eyeballs, two earlobes. We're tired of it. We are tired of it. Our conservative MAGA conservatarian movement does not judge people by skin color and we're being tired of being told to do it. We're being tired of being told how everybody hates us and we hate them and we should do land acknowledgments and apologies and pay reparations to people we don't even know for a tragic crime, generational crime. We had nothing to do with, neither did our fathers or grandfathers. This manufactured racism op. Thank the Lord, and I'm not using his name in vain, that the Trump administration, the DOJ and Cash Patel's FBI finally got to the bottom, through this indictment, of a small piece of how this has been working for years on the left. Manufacture racism, run to the big media companies, tell them to censor a bunch of people, and rip people off the internet, tell people to be investigated, put out these memos, be careful of the Catholic Church, the MAGA hot wearer. A MAGA hot wearer? The safest place for minority Americans in America is at a freaking MAGA rally. Go try it if you doubt me. Do me a favor, put one of those GoPros on, or meta glasses, and go to a MAGA rally. I'm as serious as a stroke. Go there, and don't edit it, and don't put your own AI in there. Go there and honestly release the footage. You're going to see the friendliest people on earth welcoming you with open arms, and you know it, that's why you'll never do it. So where are all these racist, goon, white supremacist people hiding? Point them out. Point them out. I've had my own issues with these people. I don't know if they're bots or not. Come in after me because you know where I stand on these issues. I've been a loud voice against this stuff and we'll maintain that. Okay, now I got to show you what I came to show you. You ready for the OPT tutorial? Here's the OPT to the Democrats listening to the show. It's important for Republicans to expose the OPT, but for Democrats who listen, and I know you're there, this is important for you too, because your party ran an OPT against you. No, they didn't. Oh, yes, they did. I promise. They're running an OPT against you right now. Let me lay out the OPT. The Democrats will shaft their own voters the second they feel like their own party power is in peril. Did you notice that right now the most powerful voices in the Democrat Party are the AOCs, the Bernie Sanders, that lunatic, a rich kid, Hassan Piker, who pretends to be like an, you know, um down activist, total zero. They're far left lunatics. Follow me here, because you're probably thinking like, yeah, that's where the energy, the basis. I'm telling you, far left lunatics, this is for you. Your own party that you vote for, AOC is a Democrat, right? Bernie Sanders, they're Democratic. They pretend they're independent as well. They're Democrats, right? They vote with Democrats. They're running an op on you. Do you remember this story? Let's go through it. Receipts incoming. Get your pens, kids. Look at this NPR story. This was probably one of the most devious ops of all time. NPR. The point means put up the story, guys. That's probably what that means. Okay, thanks. NPR. Susan Davis, February 26, 2020. Joe Biden gets a boost with the endorsement of an influential South Carolina Democrat. Damn, what does this have to do with SPLC? Oh, pay attention. Pay attention. Who was that South Carolina Democrat? Folks, help me out in the chat, you remember? He happened to be black, which doesn't matter to me at all. However, it mattered a lot to Joe Biden. The same was James Clyburn. Very influential South Carolina Democrat. If you remember 2020, Bernie Sanders was surging in the polls. Wait, the Democrat Party says they love Bernie Sanders and AOC and Assange Pike, do they really? Because when Bernie Sanders was surging in the polls and had a very good shot, oh yeah, I see some of you in the chat right now. Bernie Sanders had a very good shot about becoming a Democrat nominee. If that's where the energy and all the money was, then why did the Democrats start an op right away to cut Bernie Sanders' legs off at the knees electorally and get their guy, old establishment hack Joe Biden in there by having a prominent black Democrat in South Carolina, Jim Clyburn, endorse him to cut out the legs of activist Democrats who supported Bernie? Step one, look at that, he's very nice guys. Well, let's see the other way. Op step one, we've got to get rid of Bernie Sanders. We can't have AOC and Bernie running to the White House. I thought that's where the energy was. I thought Democrats love these people. It's not by growth. Democrats start an op. Hey, Jim Clyburn, we need a favor. We got to get rid of Bernie. I'm going to endorse him. Well, we got a problem because a lot of these voters out in Iowa and a lot of these early caucus states, they're not going to support Joe Biden. They're not going to do it. So what did the Democrats do next? Put up the Politico piece. This is just from the other day. Democrats move forward with a new 2028 primary caucus calendar. There's a new calendar, guys. Andrew's like, it's just crazy. What do you mean they're proposing it? There was an old calendar, but the old calendar was new. So the DNC is trying to revamp its calendar in 2022 to eliminate Iowa. Historically, the DNC revamped its calendar to eliminate Iowa. Historically, it was the nation's first voting state. They added Michigan and elevated South Carolina to first place in 2024. They were going to go first. Where's Jim Clyburn? Keep this up, guys. Where's Jim Clyburn from? Justin. Oh, South Carolina. That was a set up back by then President Joe Biden whose own presidential bid was saved by South Carolina back in 2020, as you saw from the NPR piece when he was endorsed by a prominent, put the NPR up again, by prominent South Carolina Democrat, Jim Clyburn. So the Democrats moved the South Carolina primaries shaft their own voters who were to support Bernie Sanders to make sure Joe Biden could get in early and give the double-barreled middle finger to their own voters. I still don't get it. How is this an op? Well, you're starting to see the op. I get it was an op to shaft Bernie Sanders. But what does this have to do with the SPLC, Charlottesville, and any of that? Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Biden probably wasn't going to run until the Democrats since they had a problem. They had a double barrel, their own voters, and run an op on them. But the op wasn't going to work if they could not run an op against their own minority voters in their own party. Running an op against minority voters in their own party? I thought the Republicans were the racists. Here's a Guardian piece that should start to seal the deal for you all. Biden wins South Carolina Democratic primary for presidential nomination. Wow! After an endorsement by a prominent black Democrat in South Carolina, the Democrats move in the South Carolina primary to shaft their own voters to F over Bernie Sanders to make sure he couldn't get it. But they needed to seal the deal. If they were going to shaft their Iowa voters and screw over their own voters to get their own establishment hack Joe Biden in the White House so they could do what they want and screw over minorities in their own party, by the way, they needed a reason. They needed a narrative. They needed what, folks? A story. They needed the story. No, no, they needed the story. The story is in the indictment. They needed our story. So they needed a story to tell their own black voters why they were shafting a good portion of their party to screw over Bernie Sanders. What was the story? Hot tip, the great Mays Moore. We love this account. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, our video is exclusive to Rumble, as many of you know. Mays Moore puts up this clip. This is actually, I believe, four different clips. We did a couple of jump cuts in it, but you'll get the point. Joe Biden does not want to run in the first clip. He doesn't want to run in the second clip. He's thinking about running in the third clip. And in the fourth clip in this, it's not that long, all of a sudden he has a reason to run. And newsflash, what was the reason? Oh, look, Charlottesville, which plays heavily in the SPLC indictment, where they are alleged to have at least had paid some racists and activists, and it appears to instigate a lot of this in Charlottesville. Allegations, they have their day in court. We'll see what they say and how they respond. You see the op now? Tell me in the chat, because if you don't see it, I'll run it again. But once you see these receipts, you can never unsee them. This is precisely how an op works. And if the Democrats were smart enough to see it, they could have stopped it early and voted for who they want. I'm not telling you would have been good for the country, Bernie Sanders. I'm just telling you, they screwed their own people. Watch this, check this out.

Speaker 4:
[24:37] I have no intention now, I've done nothing at all, to put together any kind of operation to run. If I were offered the nomination by the Lord Almighty right now today, I would say no, because we're not ready. The family's not ready to do this. I'm not decided to run or not run. And if the Lord Almighty came down and said, Joe, the nomination is yours right now, you got to accept it right now, I'd say no. I don't want to take people's time, effort, and commitment without there being a clear shot that I could be the nominee. I don't want to mislead you. I'm being more straightforward. Look, no one's ever doubted I mean what I say. The problem is I sometimes say all that I mean. I made the decision to run for president after Charlottesville. At that moment, I knew I'd have to run.

Speaker 2:
[25:35] I could tell by the feedback in the chat, you guys and ladies are thoroughly enjoying this one. Tell me with a straight face, this wasn't an op. An operation for those liberals who were like, what's an op? Is that like OPP? No, no, op, like operation, run against you. You think the Democrats gave a shit about Joe Biden? Joe Biden was a useful idiot for them. The Democrats wanted to shaft their own voters because they were afraid they couldn't control Bernie Sanders. I'm sorry, that's just the fact. I am obviously not a Bernie Sanders fan. You get it? However, I am a fan of the truth. You cannot argue what I just put out there. They manipulated the primary calendar, screwed over their Iowa and New Hampshire voters, shafted the energy and money in their own base, used a fake race narrative with at least significant allegations from a left-leaning group that fostered the race narrative to get an empty fossil in the White House who would do what they want in one of the most devious ops you've ever seen, and we're still living with the legacy of it. Oh, look at that from the indictment. F37 was a member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 Unite the Right event in Charlottesville. Virginia had attended the event at the direction of the SPLC. Strange because I heard a couple people yesterday in the liberal side saying, well, the allegations don't include the SPLC paying leadership. Let me read that again. F37 was a member of the online leadership chat group that planned the Unite the Right. You can read it yourself, you know, the indictments public and all. You can you can read that. Justin said it took them all a 30 seconds to find. Really easy. I wasn't even in the show. Justin just wanted to help you out. Folks, I don't do this show for Democrats. I mean, you're welcome here. I know I'm not, you know, it's not trying to ice you out. You're welcome to come here and hear the truth. But I'm just telling you Democrats, if you're Bernie Bros and whatever, and you're big Hassan Pike or AOC fans, which I am not, that your own party ran an op on you, and you suckers fell for it. And that's how you got the most feckless president in the United States history, a man with significant cognitive disorders. That's how you got and lost and got smoked in the presidency. The race with Kamala Harris, your own party ran an op on you. And that is the grotesque irony of the Democrats now promoting far-left voices like Hassan Pike. The same people they just screwed over in two elections with Kamala Harris and Joe Biden in 2020 and 2024. These people don't stand for anything. If you were part of the MAGA movement, you've been with President Trump through three elections since probably 2015, ten years now. Your own party screwed you guys over. You should be asking the question Godfeld's asking right now. Folks, how many of these us stories, not the stories, us story narratives you've been told, how many are hops? The answer at this point with the significant ones looks like all of them. Let me show you what I mean coming in the second here, because this is the guy, by the way, this is Son Piker. They're painting this guy as what, the Joe Rogan of the left? You think that the one they're supporting, they're using this guy. They're using him. This is another op. I'll show you what I mean coming up in a second. I'm getting screwed again. Folks, criminals exploit weak systems. I know this. I've seen it firsthand throughout my career in law enforcement. That's exactly why I'm really proactive about my privacy. I've already told you about with AI and quantum, you do not want personal information on the internet that doesn't need to be there. Please take and use this service as soon as possible. Do it yesterday. I can't go back in time. Figure it out. I don't wait for something bad to happen. Take control. I am a big supporter of delete me. Delete me. It's never been easier to find personal information online. I've already told you this. It's going to get easier going forward. Your home address, you don't want that out there. Your phone number, even your family's names can be exposed. That can have real world consequences. You can get financials and stuff they can find. You don't need all that. Today, bad actors use this data to target public servants, businesses and everyday people for their opinions. With delete me, you can protect your personal or business privacy from doxing before sensitive information is exploited. The service is fantastic, highly, highly recommended. It's critical to take action today and delete me makes it really easy. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for delete me. Now at a special discount for our listeners, save some money too. Get 20% off, two zero, it's a big savings. Off your delete me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com/bongino. Use promo code Bongino at checkout. That's the only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com/bongino. Do it today. Write it down. Bookmark it. Enter code Bongino at checkout. Get your personal information off the internet. That's joindeleteme.com/bongino. Code Bongino. Don't get doxxed. Do it today. Thank you. Delete me. Here's what I mean. This is unbelievably ironic. These ongoing ops that are now being exposed thanks to Donald Trump's DOJ and FBI. That are out there for the public to see that you suspected the whole time. It's super ironic because they're promoting Bernie bros now, like this guy, Hassan Piker. They're doing it because they want the money and they want the social clout these guys bring, but they will screw this guy over the second the next presidential race comes around and he has no national appeal at all amongst mainstream Democrats. They will shaft this guy just like the op they ran last time. Here is this, I want you to listen to this guy, Hassan Piker, talking about like, this is the most dangerous thing you can ever have a human being talk about. Is this idea of individual responsibility doesn't matter. I call it diffuse responsibility. Like you're not really responsible for your actions if the system's got its boot on your neck. They never really tell you what the system is because it's mostly Democrat systems. This is really, really dangerous. They're going to shaft this guy. They are using this guy and he's being a sucker for them. Check this out.

Speaker 5:
[32:34] Ingalls wrote about the concept of social murder. And Brian Thompson as the United Health Care CEO was engaging in a tremendous amount of social murder, the systematized forms of violence, the structural violence of poverty, the for-profit, paywalled system of health care in this country. And the consequences of that are tremendous amounts of pain, tremendous amounts of violence, tremendous amounts of deaths. And that was a fascinating story for me because Americans are very draconian about crime and punishment. They're very black and white on this issue. And yet, because of the pervasive pain that the private health care system had created for the average American, I saw so many people immediately understand why this death had taken place.

Speaker 2:
[33:40] I'm sorry, I was distracted. I'm talking to the guys. Is he wearing a polo shirt? Can you get a still from that? Polo and Adidas? I'm great, like a cool guy, but I'm just. That's a polo shirt, right? Like my eyes are in great folks in the chat. Help me out with better eyeball. Like Ralph Lauren. It's nice, nice, nice threads, man. I mean, I'm just saying I have no problem with nice clothes. I'm just saying the guy's like social murder, collective responsibility. He's wearing a polo shirt and khakis. That's like the rich guy uniform. He's wearing the uni. When I lived in Severna Park, Maryland, me and my wife used to, wait, he's zooming in on air. Yeah, wrong zoom. When I lived in Severna Park, Maryland, my wife and I used to laugh. A lot of the kids wore the Severna Park uni. It was like a hoodie and sweats and be like, kids, come on, go out, put some jeans on or something. This is like the rich guy uni he's wearing. This is like some warrior for the poor and middle class. Folks, I'm not even hitting the guy. Whatever, man, do your show. He's a capitalist. He makes money on his show. Congratulations. Like, I'm not messing around. I mean it. Like, go make money. I just find it a little bit hypocritical that you're shitting on others and the capitalist system. You use to make money for yourself to wear your polo threads and your khakis and your adidas. I just find it kind of weird, don't you? This guy is definitely one of these Bernie bros. They're using this guy. Now, that was the, I think that was like a mainstream podcast, too, like maybe the New York Times that had this guy. He's talking about the murderer of the health care executive. And he's justifying this by saying it was a social murder that happened first. Folks, do you understand where this goes? If you, listen to me, you want societal collapse and mass murder by government through fascism, through thugocracies, through ideological corruption in government, start getting people to not take individual responsibility, justify violence, which serves no purpose whatsoever in the political space other than destroy society. Throw reason out the window. Talk about diffuse responsibility. You're not responsible individually. Whenever you hear anything that takes the locus of control away from the individual and puts it on the mystery man, the system, systemic destruction, the man, that was the thing in the sixties, right? Man, you got to fight the man, bro. Who's the man? It's like the man man. You don't know, no, but you know, no, no, who's the man? You know, the man. Okay, who? They were like famous rock songs in the sixties. Fight the man. Who the hell's the man? Systemic racism. What system? You live in, some of these people live in New York City and San Francisco. The system's run by Bernie bro liberals. The system you're advocating for is the same system screwing you over so you should go kill people in Manhattan. Does that sound sane? Folks, why am I so passionate? About fighting against collective guilt and collective guilt for anyone. This is not a talking point. The Jews, the Muslims, those evil evangelicals. I'm seeing this now. It's like some war against evangelicals. Why? Have you met every evangelical? Have you met every Jew or every Persian or Muslim or Arab? Have you met? So how are you talking about people collectively? You don't know. I will never forget being at Politicon. Who was that guy? And we were in like a shuttle this years ago. And he's telling me about how he knows all black voters. I go, you know what? You met them all? That's a lot of people, man. Holy Moses. I'm impressed. And everybody was laughing at him in the bus. And they were his people, too. Like, you look like an idiot. I was like, really? You met all black people? That's crazy. You must be busy. I didn't know you were that old. What are you, like, Lestat from Interview the Vampire? You've been around for, like, 700 years? You met every black person. Folks, listen, man. I'm sorry. Emotional rollercoaster here, but death and destruction always follow when collective guilt and diffuse responsibility take over. The point I'm trying to make is the same people pushing this Bernie bro, collective guilt, diffuse responsibility nonsense are the same people the Democrats ran an op against to get them out of their party because they felt like they couldn't win a national election with them. And now they're using them now for clout and money, and they're going to throw them right overboard in 2028 again. Flags in the chat immediately on that one. Jeremy Boring is a friend of mine from The Daily Wire. My close friend, but friend known for a long time. Jeremy has a podcast out. Jeremy did a segment about this just the other day about this whole idea of the dangers of diffused responsibility. Flags in the chat, tearing it up with the chat every single time. Love it, be it, own it, love it in the chat. Join us every day live, join the chat yourself. Just set up a Rumble account, it's absolutely free. The live stream is exclusively here. The video is here. Join us on Rumble, we love to have you. Jeremy has this wonderful clip I pulled on his podcast where he's talking here about the other side of this equation that's equally dangerous. And the other side of the equation is throwing reason out the window, not following facts, sequences of facts and being immune to new inputs and just operating on quote the feels. How you don't just know something, you just say you know no even though you admit you don't know. What is he talking about? This is a great clip. Here is the other dangerous part about going down this road. We dump reason and logic and become about the feels and emotion. And someone told me something on Twitter, despite the facts that the facts say otherwise. We're finished. We are finished. I'm not going to let it happen. Check this out.

Speaker 6:
[40:11] One of the most famous examples, of course, is Candace Owens, who is literally made an entire brand complete with merch out of the phrase, We don't know, no, but we know, you know? Here's a classic example from one of many times that she's employed the phrase, Quote, I do think it's very weird that he was mic'd after he sat down. I'll tell you that. That's never happened to me at a Turning Point event. They mic you backstage, always. Um, so yeah, I thought that was strange. Something's not right. I know it's not right. We don't know no, but we know, you know? That's a form of motivated reasoning. Starting with the conclusion you want, admitting the evidence isn't there, and then inviting the audience to adopt the conclusion anyway. She's never been mic'd on stage at a Turning Point event. She's always been mic'd backstage. That's it. That's the evidence. From that singular data point, her personal experience at her own personal appearances, she concludes that this is how it always works for everyone, all the time. That anything different is therefore suspicious, and that something's not right. And then, having constructed this extraordinary logical leap, she covers it with, we don't know no, but we know. You know? She's telling you how loud that she doesn't actually know. She's admitting it. And then in the same breath, she's converting that admitted non-knowledge into collective certainty. We know. Not, I suspect. Not, it seems odd to me. We, all of us, we know.

Speaker 2:
[41:52] Very serious time. We can't run a movement like this, folks. If we don't have a true north, we don't have a lodestar, if we have a compass, it's off. If we have a scale, that doesn't actually measure weight. We don't have a movement. You may have a bot army, but you don't have a movement. I'm warning you about this because this is where why the left is so gullible and falls for ops themselves. There are ops being run on you every day from within the MAGA tent. We've talked about it extensively. I don't go on and on every day about it because I think you get the point. You are not my army of followers and listeners out there in the Bongino army. You guys are immune to this bullshit because you've seen it a thousand times. There were some people in our tent who aren't. I mean, I'm just going to be straight with you. I got a very close friend. I'm not going to say who. I was in a restaurant a couple of weeks ago and brought up one of these things and I couldn't believe he thought it was true. I was like, where did you hear that? Well, random Joe guy on Twitter. I'm like, dude, does that even sound sane? Folks, we will have the strongest, we will longitudinally over time movement we have ever built in the Republican Party with what we built with this MAGA infrastructure if we just stay anchored in reason and truth. I know you're like, well, of course we're going to... I understand that that sounds all flowery. I'm not trying to write poetry, but I mean it. I'm seeing even like diehards and good friends like being pulled in this direction of like endless bullshit. Don't fall for this like the left, the left, that's how the left got Joe Biden shoved down there. I just walked you through it step by step. And that's how you get things like this too up in New York. Put up that tweet about the East Village. This is how you get the left falls for Opsul, Mamdami's an op. Mamdami's a total phony. You know the East Village up in New York? Look at this, the Persian Jewess on Twitter. Over 70% of the East Village voted for Mamdami. Now they're suing Mamdami because he's planning to relocate Bellevue's homeless shelter to the East Village. What did you, well, you got to have an op run on YouTube. You had a bunch of likely foreign accounts propping up a guy who hates the United States, hates the free market. You voted for him, seven out of ten people. Now he's locating a homeless shelter in your village. Hey, he's just being nice and generous, right? And now you hate it. Now you're suing him. The left's propensity to fall for ops and media bullshit is what's destroying their party too. Do not emulate this strategy. It will kill us in the long run. You doubt me? Folks, the left is in a world of trouble too. You think there's infighting on the right? Did you see this Wall Street Journal article? This Wall Street Journal article, receipts matter. The left is in more trouble than we are. What do you mean? I'm just giving you the numbers. This is a rogue piece in the Wall Street Journal. Democrats in peril from Barcelona to Boise. So we know it's the GOP has its problems, but the Dems are a mess too. In September of 2018, before the Dems flipped 42 house seats, Gallup found that, listen to this, 44% of Americans approved of the Dems, while 52% disapprove. That was in 2018 when they did pretty well. Rove notes today, real clear average says only 36% of Dems approve of the party, while 56% disapprove. Now, the GOP is not doing great, but here's the kicker. We're doing better than them. For the GOP, 39% approve and 54% disapprove, while President Trump's numbers are 41% approval. I'm not telling you, like, if those numbers are even accurate, that we should crack the Dom Perignon, you know, sort it off. I've always, whenever I see people do that, I get weird. I think someone's going to chop their thumb off. I'm just telling you, like, the do-mers and the gloomers and the black pillars who are, like, cheering on the Iranian mullahs, cheering on economic collapse, ignoring GDP numbers, ignoring job growth, ignoring the PPI, ignoring the border numbers, ignoring the crime numbers. They're doing it because an op is being run on you. Don't fall for it. The reason our numbers are better is our party is smarter. We actually believe in reason. That's why we're doing not great, despite all the ops being run on us, but they're doing even worse. Do not fall for ops or you're going to get terrible candidates like this. You think 2020 was bad and Joe Biden was an op? What about Joe Biden, who probably thought the establishment was going to back him because the op I showed you at the beginning of the show was run by the establishment Democrat Party in conjunction with some of these groups to get Joe Biden in there on a false story about the fine people hoax. That was a story that they used to push Joe Biden in. And then the same establishment wiped him out and chose this person instead. Folks, one thing people can't stand on both sides of the aisle is inauthenticity and phoniness. I got to tell you, I'm really hesitant to play this stuff, but we played it before the show, and it's worth a good laugh. Here's Kamala Harris, one Kamala Harris, two Kamala Harris, three Kamala Harris, five. Why do I say that? Because I don't, you never know who's going to show up. She changes the way she talks in front of every group. Which one is it? The answer is, I don't know, depends on the group. Check this out.

Speaker 7:
[47:58] Hello to all my Divine Nine, brothers and sisters. And my sorrows. I love you back. But joy cometh in the morning. The path may seem hard, the work may seem heavy, but joy cometh in the morning. And church morning is on its way.

Speaker 8:
[48:28] God bless you.

Speaker 7:
[48:29] God bless America. Yeah, man. Them got a boy, Shane, bring me back a goat.

Speaker 1:
[48:36] Now, cook it up.

Speaker 8:
[48:40] You know, for the suffering of other people, have you no sense of purpose?

Speaker 7:
[48:48] And you all helped us win in 2020, and we're going to do it again in 2024.

Speaker 1:
[48:54] Yes, we will.

Speaker 8:
[48:57] Yes, we will.

Speaker 7:
[49:00] So let's get right down. So I'm going to get into some business now. Okay, I'm going to get into some business now.

Speaker 2:
[49:12] Hat tip Rubin Report on that one. My favorite is Kamala Chatpatwa. What is going on? I'm sorry to do that to you. We had a lot of mutleys in the chat, tearing it up with the mutleys out there. I always appreciate the mutley. Hat tip to the great Joe Armacost. God rest his soul. We love you, brother. You to Hassan Piker and others, I promise, man, I disagree with you on things. I'm not actually your enemy. I'm your ideological opponent. I'm telling you, that's a scam. You guys are being used by an establishment GOP who gave you the person in that clip, Kamala Harris, and gave you Joe Biden. The up wasn't run on us. We don't vote in Democrat primaries if they're not open, which is a large majority of them. We don't vote in those. You pick your own guys. And there's an up being run on you too. The up being run on you in the MAGA movement, again, is this faux mass outbreak of racism nonsense, this manufactured racism we've now seen through this indictment and elsewhere. Again, I'm not telling you it doesn't exist. That'd be silly. I'm telling you that the overwhelming majority of what you hear from the left-wing media about a white supremacist and Nazi around every corner. The Nazis now are Democrats. Look at his tweet. Receipts matter. I thought Donald Trump was struggling with the minority community. That's what you've been told, right? You've been told the story. The date on this is April 23. I always meant, what's the date? Is it the 24th? Is it yesterday? New generic poll of Hispanic voters. Republicans, 49%. That can't be right, Justin. It says Democrats, 45. Is that less than 49? I don't know, Josh, is that less? It is, right? I'm folks in the chat. I'm not crazy, right? Etch-a-lon poll. I thought we were doing terrible with Hispanic vote. I thought we were doing bad. I don't know, I was told we were doing really bad. It's kind of weird, like Hispanic voters actually care about issues and not racial identity politics and race hoaxes and fake narratives. It's kind of strange. It's almost like they're part of the country, too, and care about like what we care about. Shocker, man. Money, taxes, crime, security, health care, education, you know, like the stuff like you care about. So weird. Folks, people hate inauthentic candidates. They cannot stand them. And I'm telling you to the Democrats, to the Republicans, be careful of the inside the tent ops coming at you every day from people who want to divide us. To the Democrats, you guys got work, too. And I'm telling you this Hassan Piker and all this stuff people they're promoting right now, get ready because the second they feel like these people get any momentum and can cost them their chosen established candidate, 2028, they will absolutely throw you under the bus, throw you off the boat with cement booties on. 100 percent. Mark it in the chat. Remember this episode. You want to see authentic? I'll show you authentic. See people, this is why, by the way, Trump continues to succeed with minority voters and elsewhere and is actually beating both the Republican Party and the Democrats in approval. I just showed you the data. You don't have to believe it. I'm just telling you what it is. Because he's authentic. You don't have to, you're not obligated to vote for him or like him or anything like that. But he chooses people around him in his Avengers group. Who were authentic too. Did you see this clip by Mark Wayne Mullin on Fox? Take a second and stop what you're doing. I like Mark Wayne Mullin. I ran into him in Arizona one time. That was at Charlie Kirk's event. And he's a super nice guy. He's the new DHS secretary. Here is Mark Wayne Mullin talking about Chuck Schumer because he needs money for the DHS, you know, to fund and pay people trying to keep the nation safe. I mean, it's only called the Department of Homeland Security. Check this out.

Speaker 9:
[53:29] Schumer, no one respects you. The definition of a lying scumbag politician, that is you. You would be the definition if you googled you right now. I mean, why don't you just come out and be honest with American people? He wants to have open borders. If you want to defund the Customs and Border Protection Agency, if you want to defund ICE, who is in there arresting the criminals, that the laws were passed by you, you had time to change those during the Biden administration. You didn't because you're for open borders and you're for the criminals running amok in our cities. And for you to say that is so disrespectful to the law enforcement that is out there protecting you because he has a detail with him. How about he walks around these city streets without a detail? I wonder how safe he would feel.

Speaker 2:
[54:14] I'm loving this guy already. I'm loving this guy already. That's exactly what I like. The language don't bother me at all. I'm trying to keep it clean for the audience. It is tough, as Deanna Rumble said in the chat earlier. I'm telling you folks, people hate inauthenticity. They can't stand it. The Democrats love inauthenticity. They love fake, phony frauds. They vote for them all the time. The Democrats have an op being run on them right now. Here's the great Mays Moore again. Because the nations, the Democrats right now do not want to fund the Department of Homeland Security because they want open borders back. They just do. However, because defund the police is not a popular position with working class like union Democrats, here's the Democrats telling their own voters two completely separate messages and hoping you don't notice that they're lying to you. Watch yourself.

Speaker 10:
[55:13] I've not heard one Democrat say defund ICE.

Speaker 11:
[55:15] Right now, Democrats have the power to defund and abolish ICE. We should do it.

Speaker 12:
[55:21] It is beyond time to defund ICE.

Speaker 6:
[55:25] An agency that does not care about the law, does not care what courts say, thinks it is accountable to no one except for the president of the United States. We can't fund that kind of agency. We would be violating our oath of office, all of us, to fund an agency that just doesn't care about the law.

Speaker 2:
[55:51] You see what happens when you don't have a true north on your compass and you believe in the feels rather than reason? What does reason and logic tell you there? Reason and logic tells you, wow, one of them has to be lying. Is that Patty Murray in the beginning Democrats Center? I don't know, a single Democrat. We just played, well, Mays Moore, great clip, played three Democrats talking about defunding ICE and they're not funding ICE right now. You've been, I'm sorry, you're just being lied to, right? One of those stories has to be fake. And the answer is the story that's fake is that no Democrats talking about defunding ICE. They just did it. They're defunding them right now. This is what happens when you lose your lodestar, when your compass doesn't measure north. You're out there in the wilderness, you wind up with Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and you become susceptible to anything. You'll fall for anything. I got a great interview coming up for you. I'm going to lay it out for you here in the beginning. I got a clip coming up first of another health educator. I hate that thing and I hate the term influencer because you need to be influenced. You either educated or you're not. Wait, I want to play this clip though first. Folks, I absolutely love these health hacks. I love them because I did this interview with Hannity on his podcast Hangout with Sean Hannity. I taped it. I think it's going to air Tuesday. It's Hangout with Sean Hannity, the podcast. I encourage you to check it out. It's like two hours long. We were supposed to do like an hour and 10 minutes. I looked up at the clock. I couldn't believe it. I got there at like three o'clock. I think I left at like 930 by the time we were done. We were hanging out for a while. But he had asked me, it gets really emotional at times. He's asked me about the cancer thing and that just came up. And yeah, I don't talk about it because I love it. But you know, it changed your life, man. And I take this health stuff really seriously. God gave you your one body and it's your temple. And if there are easy ways to go out there where you can extend your life, I structured this interview with the guests coming up in a couple of minutes, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, in a very specific way. It's, I really, really love this. But the questions I ask are very deliberate. They're meant to give you the best bang for the buck and things you can do to dramatically change your life that aren't even going to cost you a lot of time. Every, we cover everything from cold plunges to creatine to Omega-3s to should I eat dinner late at night or early at night? Like what's better? What's better for sleep? What's better for weight loss? We cover things like cold plunges and does it work? Is it all hype? It's one of my favorites. I learned a ton out of it. One of the guys I also follow, you may know Dr. Andrew Huberman. I follow him a lot for Health Hacks 2. Here's a great quick video about what not to do in the morning when you get up. We're going to talk about the nighttime routine with Dr. Rhonda, but here's what not to do in the morning when you get up. And I vouched, this is very bad.

Speaker 13:
[59:00] If you were to design, or if you were to instruct someone to do the worst possible things in the morning to set their day up for failure, what would they be?

Speaker 14:
[59:11] Wake up and stay in bed. Well, wait, there are good reasons to stay in bed in the morning, but once those are completed, then staying in bed is-

Speaker 13:
[59:20] Curtains drawn.

Speaker 14:
[59:21] Yeah, curtains drawn, just using your passively scrolling on social media. There are neurobiological data showing that when you are upright, you actually are stimulating this area of the brain called locus coeruleus, whereas when you recline, you actually are less alert. Literally the position of your body dictates some of your levels of alertness.

Speaker 13:
[59:42] That's why you suggest people to not sit like this at their work desk, right?

Speaker 14:
[59:47] Yes, and if you're looking down while working, you're actually less alert than you could be if your eyes are averted slightly over the navel level.

Speaker 13:
[59:56] Most people that are on their phone.

Speaker 14:
[59:58] Including me, and the postural stuff is really bad, too. I mean, I'm trying to really combat that internal rotation, you know, that the C-shaped human kind of thing, you know.

Speaker 2:
[60:08] Please, I'm asking you as a favor, please watch this entire interview coming up next with Dr. Rhonda. It is, it will, I give you my word out of the what, 55,000 people here now, and the million plus will get a VOD. Someone's life will be saved by some of this advice. I'm 51, I've been through a lot and I'd be lost without it. So I stay tuned. First, you know the moment when spring hits and suddenly you want to refresh everything in your house, you know, spring cleaning everything else. Well, before you start reorganizing closets, buying new plants, start with your sleep. Fix your sleep, it's the greatest life hack of all. Seriously, ditch the old mattress and fix the root of the problem. Your uncomfortable mattress, probably so uncomfortable you probably got used to it. Don't get used to it. If you're dealing with lower back pain or restless nights, Helix mattresses, that's the move for you, H-E-L-I-X. Paul and I upgraded to a Helix. It's made a real difference in our life. I used to wake up stiff and sore with Helix mattresses. I had one in DC too, absolutely love it. All my kids have them. They're in the guest room and all. Everybody loves them. You'll wake up feeling rested and refreshed, unbelievably comfortable. Even my sleep tracker noticed. I had great HRV numbers and elsewhere after I changed my mattress, my deep sleep numbers jumped, which honestly felt like hitting the jackpot. It's like the health hack jackpot, which sets Helix, what sets Helix apart is that they don't do a one-size-fits-all mattress. They offer over 20 mattress models. So you're matched to how you actually sleep. Sleep side sleeper, back sleeper, and delivery couldn't be easier. It's really simple. Free shipping right to your door, a 120-night sleep trial. That's how confident they are about their product. A limited lifetime warranty and zero stress in the purchase. So do yourself a favor. Go to helixsleep.com/dan for 20% off site wide. That's H-E-L-I-X. That's helixsleep.com/dan. Get a new mattress today. Sleep in comfort. Get 20% off site wide. Make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Again, the website helixsleep.com/dan. Folks, I am elated to welcome to the show someone I've become addicted to our clips, Dr. Rhonda Patrick. You ever, you know, when I talk about exercise, snacks and all this stuff, I get it from Dr. Rhonda. It's not a Dan Bongino original. So Dr. Rhonda, welcome to the show. It's an honor to have you.

Speaker 10:
[62:34] Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 2:
[62:37] So, you know, with this whole influencer title, I tell everyone, you're not an influence, you're an educator. I follow your clips, I spread them around, and I can honestly say that you've made me a lot healthier. And one of the things you talked about that you really got me to up my game on was the sauna. I was an occasional sauna user. Honestly, it was just one of those things I used to relax after a workout, and then when it got really hot, I would just walk out. But I watched one of your clips, and you were talking about the longevity value and the value of these heat shock proteins, or these almost magical-like compounds. Tell everybody about the sauna and what this can do for their lives.

Speaker 10:
[63:14] Well, the sauna is just one form of what I would call deliberate heat exposure. So you're exposing yourself to higher temperatures than normal. We live in these very temperature-controlled environments nowadays. If you live anywhere in the South, or anywhere that gets hot in the summer, you're always inside an air conditioning environment. That isn't necessarily how humans evolved, or the types of environments that we have always been in. So actually, exposing yourself to deliberate heat through a sauna, even through something like a hot tub, hot bath, jacuzzi, steam shower, for example, hot yoga, a lot of these things are very similar in their effects. And you'll notice if you've been in any of those, which I'm sure everyone has, you start to feel very similar as you do when you're doing a workout. And that is because the sauna mimics moderate intensity aerobic exercise. So a lot of the physiological changes that happen during a moderate intensity aerobic workout, your heart rate goes up, you start to have your core body temperature elevate, you start to sweat to try to cool down, all those things are happening also in the sauna. And so it's a great way to improve cardiovascular health in addition to exercise. It's also great for people that are unable to do certain types of exercise, aerobic exercise like running or getting on like a stationary bike, disabled people, for example. There are a lot of studies coming out of Finland. Finland is the country where saunas are ubiquitous. Almost everyone has one in their homes. And for people that do not have one in their homes, they're pretty, there's a lot of communal saunas that are free and available to people. And so a lot of these large population studies, researchers like Dr. Yarvi Laukkanen have found that for optimal longevity, people that use the sauna four to seven times per week, and this is about 174 degrees Fahrenheit to 194 degrees Fahrenheit. It's like the temperature range. And they use that for 20 minutes each session, four to seven times per week. They have a 40 percent lower all-cause mortality. They have a 63 percent lower risk of sudden cardiac death. They have a 50 percent lower cardiovascular related mortality. And this is very important because heart attacks are the number one killer, you know, in the United States and in many developed countries. So it has a very profound effect on cardiovascular health, cardiovascular protection. And it's really in a dose dependent manner. So if you do two to three sessions, not the four to seven, you still get some benefits, but they're not as robust. For example, I mentioned a 40 percent lower all cause mortality. That really means death from all sorts of non accidental causes of death. Right. So, you know, pneumonia, for example, upper respiratory tract infection, cardiovascular disease. So these are the things that I'm talking about. If you only do two to three sessions, then you have about a 24 percent lower all cause mortality. So the more you do it, the more robust the effects. And that also goes for the duration that you stay in the sauna. So I mentioned 20 minutes is really the sweet spot to get the most robust effects. For individuals that stayed in the sauna, let's say 19 minutes or fewer, they still got some benefits. But again, it wasn't as robust. And so really you want to try and get in the sauna 20 minutes minimum, at least 174 degrees Fahrenheit. And you want to do that at minimum twice per week, if you want to at least get some effect. If you want the most robust effects, you want to do at least four times a week. And there's also really interesting data coming out on protection against neurodegenerative disease. So frequent sauna use again, four to seven times per week is associated with a 65 to 66 percent lower risk of developing Alzheimer's disease and dementia. And you mentioned heat shock proteins, this is important because heat shock proteins are a part of what's called the adaptive response to stress, particularly heat stress as their name implies, heat shock, right? You're heating up your body. Well, it turns out that these heat shock proteins play a very important role in preventing proteins from aggregating and forming plaques. These plaques can be in the cardiovascular system, but also in the brain. So you may have heard of something called amyloid beta-42. This is the very common plaque that's formed in the brain of people with Alzheimer's disease. It forms outside of neurons where the synapses are forming. So synapses are the connections between neurons. It's the way that neurons communicate. And when you have these plaques, forming where these synapses are connecting, it disrupts the synapses. And when that happens, essentially you're not having communication between neurons and not only are you not having communication, the neurons start to die because their sole purpose is to communicate. And so you start to have, your memory starts to go. So all that is to say, and there's more, I know I'm talking a lot, but deliberate heat exposure from the sauna is very beneficial. It does mimic aerobic cardiovascular exercise. And you may say to me, well, Rhonda, I get enough cardiovascular exercise. Why should I do the sauna? Well, it turns out there's also been research looking at exercise and then exercise plus sauna. So again, these studies have come out of Finland, where a majority of the research, I would say the best research is coming out of Finland. Again, Dr. Yari Laukonen's lab has looked at individuals, put them in two groups. One group went on a stationary bike, did their wattage. I don't remember what the wattage was, but it was moderate intensity exercise. And the other group did the same thing. And then they went into the sauna for 15 minutes immediately after their cycling. And what that data showed is that doing the exercise plus the sauna improved cardio respiratory fitness better than exercise alone. Cardio respiratory fitness is really measuring the capacity of your lungs and your muscles and your vascular system to be able to do work. And it's often measured by VO2 max. That's the maximal amount of oxygen that you can take in during maximal exercise. So that was improved even better if you added, if those individuals added this sauna after their workout. And VO2 max is actually a marker of longevity. People that have a higher VO2 max, actually like the highest VO2 max, we're talking more like elite athletes, you know, they have an 80% lower all-cause mortality compared to people with the lowest VO2 max or cardiorespiratory fitness. So you have every reason to want to improve your cardiorespiratory fitness. And the fact of the matter is sitting in the sauna for 15 minutes is really just extending your workout. Also, biomarkers for cardiovascular health were improved better in the group that also added the sauna. So I'm just trying to get at this point, and that is the sauna, you know, deliberate heat exposure from the sauna is really, it's an additive effect to your workout. So you might go, well, again, you know, I'm already working out. Yeah, but you can even do better by adding this sauna on top of that. And that goes for muscular health too, Dan. This is so fascinating because these studies are coming out. It's hard to keep up with them, but there's also studies showing, this kind of started and originated from animal studies. And I remember 10 years ago talking about this and people giving me a lot of pushback going, well, we're not mice. And, you know, of course I was like, I know, but the mechanisms make sense. And finally, you know, human studies started to catch up. And it turns out that the heat exposure and specifically activation of heat shock proteins, not only does it prevent the formation of plaques, it prevents the degradation of important proteins in skeletal muscle. And so people that do resistance training workout and then get into the sauna, again, a 15 minute sauna, right after their training, they had higher levels of markers that are involved in muscle hypertrophy. So basically anabolic signaling. They didn't measure muscle mass directly or lean body mass directly, but really good evidence if you're having higher biomarkers of these anabolic signals because that really is the precursor in what's required for muscle hypertrophy. And that was, again, people that are doing resistance training, two groups, the same training, one group out of the sauna after. So I'll pause for a minute, I have more to say, but I did say a lot and I do think that it's important here with protocols that the way I like to think about it is that I think the biggest protocol here would be the 15 to 20 minutes. If you're doing it after a workout, you can get away with 15 minutes at at least 174 degrees Fahrenheit up to about 194. I wouldn't go above 200 degrees Fahrenheit. There's at least one study showing that if it's too hot, your head is in the sauna, especially if you're in the sauna, your head is hot. And you don't want to mess around with that because one study showed that while there is protection against Alzheimer's disease and dementia, people that started getting in the 200 degree Fahrenheit and above range actually had the opposite effect where they had an increased risk. So stress is stress. You don't want too much.

Speaker 2:
[72:50] Yeah, it's not a torture test. The idea is to elongate your life, not shorten it. Folks, this content is incredible. That's why you can and should check out Dr. Rhonda's podcast, Found My Fitness. You won't get it. You're not going to find a better. So you see it on the screen right there. You're not going to find a better show out there. Her clips are all over X. She's on X. Rhonda, R-H-O-N-D-A, Patrick Cum and spelling strongly, strongly encourage you to follow all those accounts. Dr. Rhonda, I started with sauna for a reason. The introduction of that variable, the sauna has such a profound effect. The numbers you're throwing out there, according to these studies, are unreal. I mean, 20 to 40% double digit intervention effects. You don't see that in the exercise, phys space a lot, even when creatine came out, when I was a young 20 year old and phosphagen came out, I remember that was the first big product out there. People were going bananas over like, I gained five pounds of muscle. Meanwhile, most of it was probably water. I love creatine. It's fantastic. But to have an effect like that is so dramatic. And I get it, to buy a home sauna is not cheap. But most gyms now, decent gyms will have one. The reason I brought it up first is because this is such an easy life hack if you've got the 20 minutes to spare. And you can attest this. You just don't see intervention effects like that in this space a lot.

Speaker 10:
[74:17] I agree. And Dan, now, if you were to ask me 10 years ago when I really started talking about this publicly, I wasn't sure if hot baths or hot jacuzzis were applied the same, if it was the same. And now there's so much data coming out showing, yes, you can actually get in a hot bath. Now, a hot bath is different than a hot tub, which is constantly refilling the hot water. So if you don't have access to a sauna or a hot tub, or you don't have easy access, you can actually buy one of those pool sort of thermometers that you get around like to float in the pool, put it in your bathtub, and make sure the bathtub gets up to 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Stay in it with your shoulders submerged down for 20 minutes. And that really has similar effects in activating heat shock proteins, protecting against some of the muscle disuse atrophy, for example. And I think also it applies to the cardiovascular health. You'll notice your heart rate goes up, a lot of the same physiological effects that are happening in the sauna, and also during moderate intensity physical activities happening when you're in a hot bath as well. So I do think that it's nice to know that that also applies, because again, not everyone does have a sauna. And I agree, it's such an easy thing to add on to your exercise.

Speaker 2:
[75:37] And it's relaxing. I mean, the last five minutes, if you're doing 20, you're not great. I'm not going to lie to you. I mean, you know that. I do it at 194, but the first 15 are in bed.

Speaker 10:
[75:50] Yeah. And you know what else is something that's interesting? That, you know, it's a, it's a idea I put out there again, 10 years ago. It was, I called it hyperthermic conditioning. And I think that it's only continued to be proven true, which is essentially you can use the sauna or, and or hot bath, hot tub to train your body to adapt to hot environments. And this is going to help with your endurance training. So essentially when you are doing a race, for example, an endurance race, you know, your body is getting really hot. And so you want to have these adaptations to cool, cool it down more efficiently and effectively, because that's going to affect your performance, right? And now there's really studies showing that you can use the sauna. It used to be that runners would go out and run in like Texas in like the middle of the summer. And it was like they were acclimating themselves to heat. Right. But you can do this, use the sauna instead of having to do that. And your body starts to adapt. And so you start to sweat at a lower core body temperature, and that helps cool you down faster. And that's going to improve performance. And that's been shown now in studies. And so that's another cool thing. Like I'm training for a high rocks competition in December. And so the sauna is also a really important part of my training because I want to be able to have that thermoregulation where I'm able to cool myself down, have these mechanisms kick in where I'm not quite as hot, so it doesn't affect my performance.

Speaker 2:
[77:21] Yeah. Well, let's flip the script now. Let's go to the other end of the thermoregulatory mechanism here. The cold plunge. I am not an expert in the space like you. However, I consume tons of, including many of your clips every day on X, health hack content and health educators out there. I bought a cold plunge years ago. I love it. When I first heard about it, obviously you have heat shock proteins, you also have cold shock proteins, which work by different mechanism, but released due to external stimuli and cold temperatures. Initially, the cold plunge was sold as kind of almost like one of these cure-alls, and that always makes me a little nervous. I still love it. I have a hard time candidly getting up in the morning without it. I jump in at 6 a.m. I have 47 degrees, three minutes. I don't go crazy about four or five days a week. But I'm starting to see some of the other folks in the space, the health educator space, who are a little bit down on it. I was just wondering your kind of general take on it, because there's been a lot of hype. I think we can both. Everybody agrees on sauna. There's almost no disputing that. The plunge, it's up and down.

Speaker 10:
[78:29] Yes. I mean, so cold plunging is another type of thermal stress, right? We're either going really hot or we're going really cold. It is a type of stress on the body. And these types of stress are what are called good types of stress, hormetic stress, like exercise is also one, where your body, it's not like so strong and so chronic, you know, like constant psychological stress, for example, emotional stress, which is all day slow drip, right? You know, these are brief bursts. They're intense. But as a response, your body adapts and goes, whoa, there's something going on here. I better like ramp up all this good stuff to deal with this stress, right? So the cold plunge does have benefits. They're very different, I would say, than the benefits of the sauna. So like you're not going to get the cardiovascular benefits that you get from a sauna. The sauna is very unique in that regards because it is mimicking moderate intensity aerobic exercise. Vasodilation is occurring. All the same sort of physiological responses that happen during exercise are happening with the sauna. The cold plunge is totally different, right? You're getting in this really cold body of water and vasoconstriction is happening. So the opposite thing. And that can really be a benefit because the hormone and neurotransmitter that regulates vasoconstriction is called norepinephrine. And norepinephrine is a hormone, but it's also a neurotransmitter. It's involved in mood. It's involved in focus and attention, alertness, awake. You mentioned that you almost can't get up in the morning without the cold plunge. Well, you know, what happens when you get in the cold is your body wakes up. You have that norepinephrine, your focus, attention. Wow, your body's like, I don't want to die. I better like I better put all my energy into like making sure my brain's working because this is a stressful thing that's happening right now. And it's really one of the most consistent physiological responses to deliberate cold exposure. So I personally, the reason I like the cold plunge, I actually hate the cold plunge.

Speaker 2:
[80:26] Yeah, I think everybody loves it, but hates it. That's universal, I agree.

Speaker 10:
[80:32] Whereas I love the sauna, I feel like I like, I don't hate it as much, you know, it's a lot easier to get into like the warmth than the cold. But it's for that norepinephrine response where it wakes me up, I feel alert. It helps with focused attention. It helps with mood anxiety as well. But there's also metabolic benefits and immune benefits to doing deliberate cold exposure through something like a cold plunge or even cryotherapy. In fact, I want to talk just for a minute about the cryotherapy because I was talking about mood. And so cryotherapy is different than a cold plunge. Cold plunge you're getting in this cold body of water, and you're submerged under the water, right? Cryotherapy is cooling the air around you. It's almost like the sauna equivalent of, you know, the air is what's cooled and you're getting into this chamber, and it's very, very cold. And there have been at least two studies that have looked at mood in people with major depressive disorder. So people with major depressive disorder get into this cryotherapy chamber or they get into a sham control, which is getting cold. You feel like you're probably getting the treatment because it's like really cold air, but it's not cold enough. And I don't remember off the top of my head what the cold enough is. I think it was like minus 200 and something degree Fahrenheit, pretty cold. They're in there for two minutes. And after a period of several weeks, those individuals had, you know, massive improvements in a battery of scores and tests that are done to measure depression versus the sham control, which would be the placebo. So that's really encouraging. Again, coming down to what I think is that norepinephrine response. Norepinephrine, by the way, is a target for depression. There are pharmaceutical drugs that will prevent the degradation of norepinephrine so that no more of it's around in people with depression now. So the cold plunge is kind of like a non-pharmacological treatment for depression as well. Actually, the sauna is too, but that's another topic that we can talk about if you want. But anyway, so back to some of the other benefits, there are some metabolic benefits from cold plunging, and people are also very interested in that. Are you going to get them at three minutes a day? Probably not. Are you going to get them at three minutes a day, four or five times a week, maybe a little bit? So what happens when you get into the cold is your body is adapting and it wants to make heat, right? Because it doesn't want to freeze to death. One of the ways it does that is by increasing the number of what are called mitochondria inside of your adipose tissue, your fat tissue. Mitochondria are the energy producing, they're called organelles inside of our cells. Just think of them as little powerhouses of energy. When you look at a droplet of fat under a microscope, the more mitochondria that fat cell has, the more brown it looks because mitochondria are dark in color. I spent three years looking at mitochondria under electron microscopes and microscopes my entire day, so I know a lot about that. That's called the browning of fat because it makes it look brown. You may have heard that, I'm trying to brown my fat. What that does is when you have more mitochondria in your adipose tissue, you're burning more energy and so you burn more fat, and your metabolic health improves. Like glucose regulation, insulin sensitivity, you lose weight, all those things happen. So that's another target and area of interest, particularly researchers that are looking at how to pharmacologically brown fat in individuals with metabolic dysfunction. However, coal plunging is a nice little hack that we have to hack into that system without needing to take any pharmaceutical drugs. So that's another, I would say, area that's very interesting, as well as the immune benefits of cold exposure. And so that's also something, there's been a lot of studies looking at, you know, doing regular cold plunging seems to increase certain amounts of different types of immune cells that help reduce respiratory tract infections. You may have heard of like some of these polar swims that people do. Like some of those individuals get fewer respiratory tract infections. And so, you know, it's obviously a correlation, but there's also some other studies showing that indeed cold exposure does affect immune cells. So that's another reason. And of course there's the inflammation, right? It's very well known for decreasing systemic inflammation.

Speaker 2:
[84:56] I have severe, severe osteoarthritis in just about every joint, but it graded, my left knee is worse. I needed a knee replacement probably five years ago from just a lot of contact sports. My x-rays are not good. I have managed to hold off on that for five years using a combination of basically red light therapy and cold plunging. I mean, when I jump in the cold plunge, I will leave my, I have one of those lie down ones, not the verticals, so I can stand up after I get out in three minutes. And it's no big deal to leave my knees in there for another minute. And I'm going to tell you, that's the only real intervention that's any different. And my knee still hurts, it bothers me. But these things only last 15, 20 years. I'm only 51. I don't want to get one now. I just need to hold off as long as I can. And if it's placebo, great. I don't really care as long as I don't need a knee replacement. But the inflammation is what I do it for.

Speaker 10:
[85:52] That's really great. I mean, I think that is definitely one of the good benefits of deliberate cold exposure. You should add in some phytosomal curcumin. So that would be called Meriva.

Speaker 2:
[86:05] I do take curcumin. Phytosomal, I take with piperine, just to stand. But what's the difference with the phytosomal?

Speaker 10:
[86:14] Phytosomal, have you heard of liposomal?

Speaker 2:
[86:17] Yeah, that's fat.

Speaker 10:
[86:18] It's like inside a lipid droplet. Well, the phytosomal is very similar, but the act of molecules, so in this case, the curcumin would be spread uniformly throughout the phytozome. There's specific studies looking at osteoarthritis and people given, I believe it's like two grams a day of this phytosomal curcumin. The brand name is called, it's like Meriva. I think that's the patent on it or something like that. It really reduces inflammatory markers and it improves like walking gait and whatever sort of test they do to test like function. So that would be one thing. The other thing is there's a really good type of glucosamine chondroitin from a company called NutriMax. They make another supplement that I really like and take called Avmacol. NutriMax is actually, they're predominantly a pet supplement company. They're sort of dominated the market, but they're very, very good, very good quality control and their supplements are used in a lot of clinical studies. They have two human supplements and they're both used in a lot of clinical studies. So I started taking their glucosamine chondroitin, it's called Cosamin, and I had rolled my ankle playing tennis, I was wearing the wrong shoes. Literally after two weeks of taking this, it's like three capsules a day, it's kind of annoying. I'm telling you, it was like totally healed. So I would try that too.

Speaker 2:
[87:51] You speak in my language now, because this might be a trainwreck.

Speaker 10:
[87:54] There's a lot of glucosamine chondroitin supplements that are just BS out there. And I think it's really tainted the whole field, because quality matters, you know, quality matters. And so that's the other thing. And I know we went on a tangent here, I didn't get to the protocols of cool, but I think it's great, I think you can avoid. Have you, there's a guy on X, I still call it Twitter, I'm trying, I'm trying to make an effort so hard. I do it too, yeah. He is a orthopedic surgeon, his name is Howard Lux LNK.

Speaker 2:
[88:27] Oh, I follow him. I love that account. He's always talking about knee osteoarthritis. I love that account. He's fantastic, I read his stuff every day. Yeah, and he basically is making some of the points you made that, listen, there's some lifestyle management stuff you should be considering before you run under the darn night to get your, I know it's a business to get knee replacement. Thank god it's out there. Some people really do need it right now, but you shouldn't rush in there at 51 years old. You should really try to manage this thing first. If that's final, once they lop off the ends of your tibia and fibia, there's no growing it back. That's it.

Speaker 10:
[89:04] Yeah, and then there's all sorts of problems like after. I mean, you've got this titanium product inside of your body. What's that doing? In fact, I just came across a study last week where they did a controlled study in people with, I think it was knee replacements. And again, their curcumin seemed to help with the building of the bone, like around the knee replacement. I think they might have also done hip replacement and then lowered like the inflammation. I mean, it was just very beneficial. Again, I am back on my my phytosomal curcumin. You know, I kind of go in waves and I, you know, now I'm back on it. I just, I feel like it's doing a lot of great stuff. So that's important. But the cold is great. The cold is awesome. There's studies on that as well. I think that if you're doing three minutes, you know, 49, 47, 50 degree Fahrenheit, like that's been shown. I mean, certainly only even like two minutes actually can increase norepinephrine by twofold. So I think that's like a good protocol. If you go even lower temp, you can get away with shorter time. So like, for example, there's studies showing that 35 degree Fahrenheit water, you only need 20 seconds to get the same twofold increase in norepinephrine that you get from two minutes at 50 degree Fahrenheit. So it's like a trade-off, right, you know, duration for temperature. The one thing I do want to mention, Dan, is the, and this is probably what you're talking about in terms of flak, getting flak for cold, doing cold plunging, that is it can blunt resistance training adaptations, particularly if it's done immediately after resistance training.

Speaker 2:
[90:43] That's important.

Speaker 10:
[90:44] It's not, yes. It's not the same for endurance.

Speaker 12:
[90:47] Yeah.

Speaker 10:
[90:48] How long do you wait?

Speaker 2:
[90:50] How long do you wait? I don't, so my routine, my routine is really simple. Get up at six, at six oh five, I have a home gym, I jet right next door, I don't drink any, I wait 90 minutes for the whole coffee routine, right? Jump into cold plunge, three minutes, 47 degrees. I pop out, I have one of those vibration boards, I get on that for about three, four minutes, and I just kind of warm up and then I do my cardio, which is about 15 minutes. So it's probably 20, 25 minutes, which is not ideal before I start resistance training. You know, I do pretty standard split upper lower body, now that I'm 51, I don't get anything crazy. I probably should wait a little bit longer, but the thing Dr. Rhonda is I just don't have the time, like you, you know, we're all kind of busy. I'm not whining about it, I love being busy, but I just don't have time to, hey, let me screw around for another 15 minutes and watch, you know, the news in the morning. I got to get going. So it's about 25 minutes. That's probably not ideal.

Speaker 10:
[91:42] It's not ideal, but let me give you my thoughts, you know. So for one, the studies that show blunting of anabolic signaling and skeletal muscle after strength training, after resistance training, they're submerged in cold for a minimum of like 10 to 15 minutes. It's a lot longer of a period of time, right? So the other thing is, is that, you know, when you're getting in the cold, basal constriction is occurring. Part of the mechanism by which cold plunging can blunt some of these resistance training adaptations is because you're, one, you're not allowing amino acids to get into muscle because everything's constricted, and inflammation as well. And inflammatory molecules are important for anabolic signaling. And so the fact that you're doing the cold, but then you're getting, you're doing the aerobic exercise, that's increasing blood flow. So you're kind of helping a little bit, in my opinion. That would kind of be a justification. I feel like, yes, it's probably not ideal, but it's not as bad as like what the studies are doing, where it's really just, there's, they're, they're totally blunting resistance training and there's no, you know, endurance training in between the two or things like that.

Speaker 2:
[92:50] So yeah, it's kind of funny, we're talking to Dr. Rhonda. You can find her podcast at Found My, her podcast, excuse me, is Found My Fitness. It is definitely worth your time. Jump on her newsletter if you want the best health hacks out there. You know, I, I'll tell stuff to my wife, Paula. I'll be like, hey, this is a really good supplement. I heard you tried it out and she won't do it. And then I send her a Dr. Rhonda clip. She's like, you know, we really should try that out. I said, I just told you that two weeks ago. So you've really done me a lot of favors for my whole family. If you had, before we get into some specific supplements, if you know, you're getting shipped to a desert island for six months and you've only got one small box of supplements, right? What is the Dr. Rhonda stack of, say, non-negotiables that people who are interested in the basics of health and fitness, longevity and quality of life, what's your recommendation of the staples that you can't basically live without?

Speaker 10:
[93:42] Okay, the staples. So we're talking a small box here.

Speaker 2:
[93:47] Small box, top five.

Speaker 10:
[93:49] Top five. Do you want me to just rattle them off and not say the why, or do you want me to say the why?

Speaker 2:
[93:53] Rattle them off and then give us the why, so they can write it down.

Speaker 10:
[93:58] All right. So here would be my staples, right? These are things that I'm not rotating in and out. Vitamin D, that would be at least 4,000 IUs a day. Omega-3, that would be around close to 2 grams, 1.6 to 2 grams a day. And this is marine omega-3s from marine sources, not the vegan. Number 3 would be a multivitamin. Number 4 would be magnesium. Magnesium glycinate is my preferred source. Number 5 would be sulforaphane, and that would be from NutriMax, that would be Avmacol. Number 6 would be the creatine, and it would actually be 10 grams a day. Number 7 would be ubiquinol, and number 8 would be my phytosomal curcumin, I think.

Speaker 2:
[94:59] The only one I don't take is the ubiquinol, but let's go to one of them I've heard you talk about endlessly, and you've really got me into these really kind of heavy, sustained doses of omega-3s. I'm very careful about the purity of it. Omega-3s, some people know it as fish oil back in the day, or like cod liver oil. Some people just can, you can eat sardines too. If you like sardines, you can get your omega-3s from there, but that's two grams is a really heavy dose. What can you expect after months and years of sustained use of omega-3s if you're living a relatively healthy lifestyle?

Speaker 10:
[95:36] I'm gonna try to keep this short because we could definitely spend the entire hour, if not more, talking about this. Most people are not, I mean, I would say 90% of the US population does not get enough omega-3. They're not meeting the requirements for omega-3 fatty acids. Why do I say close to two grams? The reason for that is because there's been studies out of Dr. Bill Harris' lab. He runs the Fatty Acid Research Institute, has shown that in order to get your what's called the omega-3 index, it's a marker of your omega-3 fatty acid levels in red blood cells. That's a long-term marker. In order to get that from a low omega-3 index, which is about 4%, up to a high omega-3 index, which is considered to be about 8% or more, it takes about 1.6 to 2 grams of omega-3 fatty acids per day to get there. Why do you want to go from a low omega-3 index to a high omega-3 index? Well, studies have shown from Dr. Bill Harris and colleagues that people with a high omega-3 index have a 5-year increased life expectancy compared to people with a low omega-3 index. And if you think about comparing in the United States life expectancy to Japan, where they are eating a lot of seafood, they are eating a lot of omega-3 just through dietary sources, there is a 5-year difference in life expectancy. Japanese people live on average 5 years longer than Americans, and they have an omega-3 index of about 10% where Americans have an average omega-3 index of about 5%. So we are at the low omega-3 index range. And in addition to that 5-year increased life expectancy, that same study, this was a big Framingham cohort of people that were looked at, what Bill and his colleagues did was they took and they stratified what is called stratifying the data, looking at smokers versus non-smokers and their omega-3 index. And this is where I wish I could put a visual graph on your screen and show you, because in the paper, it's stunning. But if you look at their life expectancy, so these are graphs that are done over time, age and years of how old they are, then how long they survive. People with a high omega-3 index that do not smoke have the longest life expectancy. People with a low omega-3 index and do smoke have the lowest life expectancy, as you would imagine. But the thing that's so amazing is that people with a low omega-3 index and they smoke have the exact same life expectancy as people that smoke with a high omega-3 index. So in other words, low omega-3 index was like smoking in terms of life expectancy. Of course, all the smokers out there are like, yes, I'm going to take fish oil. But that's not the way to look at it. The way to look at it is, yeah, you're not getting those omega-3s. We know that smoking, one of the worst thing you can do for your heart, people think about when they think about smoking, they always gravitate towards cancer. That's like, yes, okay, it's a dose-dependent effect. Eventually, you can get lung cancer. But what happens immediately, immediately, an exponential increased risk in cardiovascular disease. Smoking is terrible for your vascular system, for your arteries, for your heart, for your blood vessels. We know that omega-3 is one of the best things you can do for cardiovascular health. There's randomized controlled trials showing that you give people a very high dose of omega-3. We're talking four grams a day of purified EPA, one of the marine types of omega-3 fatty acids. After five years, they have a 25 percent lower risk of cardiovascular events including heart attacks and strokes compared to people taking a placebo. I mean, this is a randomized controlled trial. Very strong data. Multiple other randomized controlled trials showing something similar where it's improving cardiovascular health, reducing heart attacks, reducing strokes. And there's also this new data coming out that omega-3 slows biological aging. Some of the first data came out was really just correlative data. They were just looking at people's omega-3 levels and then their epigenetic biological age. So biological age can be measured a variety of different ways, but essentially it's looking at your DNA and these patterns in your DNA, which are essentially kind of on top of your DNA. They're called methylation groups. And what we know from Dr. Steve Horvath, who really is a big pioneer in this field, is that these epigenetic methylation patterns in our DNA follow a specific pattern. They change over time. And it's really correlated with aging. And so you can actually look at someone's DNA and look at the methylation pattern. And not only can you identify their age, but you can identify their biological age, because like maybe their chronological age is much older than their biological age because they live a very healthy life or the opposite is true if they smoke a bunch of cigarettes and they drink and they're sedentary, don't exercise. They can actually look, their DNA can look much older than their actual chronological age. And so the new data that I'm excited about, some of it's come out of Sweden. And this is more of a randomized trial where people were given about 1.1, I mean, actually, the 1.1 grams was the threshold to see an effect, but they were given between 1 to 2 grams of omega 3 or a placebo. And it was their their biological aging was looked at. And so it was shown that basically, like, if you met, if you took at least 1.1 grams of omega 3 a day, you started to slow your biological age over time. And for males, you know, it was happening even at a higher rate. And what's interesting is that the combination of other healthy lifestyle factors synergized. So if people were taking omega 3 and vitamin D and exercising, that was slowing their biological aging even more than just the omega 3 alone. And so that is also, I would say, very exciting because again, if you're doing all these things, these healthy lifestyle factors, you're able to slow epigenetic age. And that epigenetic age wasn't necessarily, it also translated to functional parameters. So for example, the exercise plus vitamin D plus omega 3, like those individuals, not only do they have about a four-month reduction in their biological age, and you might go, well, four months, that's not a lot. That was over the course of this study, which was like, you know, a year. So imagine you keep doing that each year, it's going to, yeah, it's going to add up, right? Those individuals also, in addition to having that almost four-month slowing in their epigenetic age, they also had reduced frailty by 40%, 40%. They had reduced invasive cancer by 60%. So this is like amazing, right? And it all comes back to the omega 3 story. And I just think it's, we have so much data. It's also beneficial for the brain. People have lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease as well. Like I said, I'm trying to not go too long into this, but it's really like a 50% reduction. People with a high omega 3 index, that 8% range, have a 50% reduction of incidence of Alzheimer's disease compared to people with a low omega 3 index. Again, 1.6 to 2 grams. I take 2 grams a day. That's the rationale behind it. I'll stop talking there even though I can go on and on because I think there's other things you want to get to, but omega 3 is really important.

Speaker 2:
[103:10] No, I do, but the reason I structured the interview the way I have is I want to give my audience, obviously it's not a nutrition based show, we do a health hack segment, but I want to give them the most valuable therapeutic intervention effects up front. Why do you bring up sauna first? Well, when you heard Dr. Rhonda's numbers, now you see why. Why do you bring up omega 3s when Dr. Rhonda listed out 6 or 8? Well, because omega 3s, I can tell you change my life. I mean, I'm 51. I survived stage 1 lymphoma 5 years ago. Been through a lot of, I've had 19 orthopedic surgeries. My body's a train wreck. And I'm not going to tell you I feel fantastic like I did in my 20s. But for 51, I feel pretty damn good. And what you're saying about the additive effects of these items, which I take most of them, vitamin D and omega, the cold plunge, the sauna, all of it, I'll do anything to stay alive for 4 months. I'll do anything to stay alive a month longer. I mean, when you have that expiration date staring you in the face, it changes everything. One of the compounds you mentioned, though, is an older compound. I mentioned it earlier in the show, creatine. It's one of the phosphogens. Creatine has been around forever. You know that with the early hysterics about how creatine was going to kill you and dry out your kidneys and all the other nonsense. Thankfully, we've moved past a lot of that. But Dr. Rhonda, I've seen a lot of your clips where you recommend a typically higher dose. The old way of thinking was loaded, was about 20 grams and then 5 gram maintenance dose every day. The new thinking I've heard is 5 to 10 even more because there's some, which I hadn't heard early on, some cerebral effects of this. Everybody thinks creatine muscles. They don't think creatine brain. And when I heard that, I was pleasantly surprised. So your thoughts on that?

Speaker 10:
[105:00] I think the next 5 years is we're going to, the most interesting research coming out of the creatine world is going to be from the neck up. It's going to be on the brain. So yeah, 5 grams a day is really, it takes about 4 weeks or so for your muscles to saturate. And you don't really need to do any loading of 20 grams before you do that, unless you're doing a competition and you've not been taking 5 grams a day for a month, right? The studies did loading because they were a short term study, and most people weren't taking creatine before. And so it's really just the 5 grams a day that's really like, once you get that level for about a month, your muscles are saturated and you just keep replenishing them with that 5 grams. Your muscles are very greedy. Creatine, as you mentioned, phosphage creatine is an important precursor to make energy. And so your muscles, especially when you're working out, are really, there's a high energetic demand. And so the creatine really shines there because it helps to re-make that energy quicker. And so you can then increase your exercise volume. And that is how creatine can improve muscle mass and muscle strength because you're essentially working out more. Right. So it's not like creatine is anabolic in and of itself, kind of like amino acids are. It requires the work, but it does helps you work more. Right.

Speaker 2:
[106:15] Well, it's dramatic, Dr. Rhonda. It's pretty dramatic. I log my workouts. And if I go off creatine, say I'm doing a 10 RM and I get to 10, I'll drop to eight the next week off creatine. It's pretty dramatic.

Speaker 10:
[106:31] Totally. I totally noticed the same thing. Like a two rep. No, I mean, it's dramatic, like for sure. Absolutely. For the longest time, I was doing five grams a day. And what I mean the longest time when I started really taking resistance training seriously, which has been at least a couple of years. But then new data just started to come out, particularly out of Germany, where actually the purest form of creatine is produced, called CreaPure. There was a German study, it was a small study, but it was looking at, the brain is very resistant to a lot of things. We have the blood brain barrier. It doesn't just take up things easily. And particularly if your muscles are greedy, if your muscles are consuming the creatine share, after five grams, there's not much left spill over to get into the brain. But creatine does get transported across the blood brain barrier. It can get into the brain, as long as your muscles aren't taking it all up. So when you start to get over that five grams and you go up to 10 grams, you double that amount, what this study out of Germany has shown is that different regions of the brain are now getting higher levels of creatine in them. Creatine is also important for your brain to make energy, right? So that's kind of where the rationale, my rationale for the 10 grams a day comes from. And then there have been studies looking at cognitive function at that higher dose of at least 10 grams. 10 grams a day seems to improve cognitive function in people with mild cognitive decline or mild cognitive impairment. So these are people with a stressed brain, people that are in some, what's important to understand is that creatine, just like when you're working out, like you can't just take creatine and expect to have bigger muscles if you don't work out, right? You have to work out, you have to put in the work. With the brain, the brain has to be a little more stressed in order for the creatine to really make a difference. Like if you're just fine, no problem, no neurodegenerative disease, no sleep deprivation, no chronic stress going on, then creatine doesn't really have much of an effect. So it's really in that background of stress. Sleep deprivation also it's been shown, I would say 10 grams a day minimum, but studies have shown that if you go up to 20 to, it depends on your body weight. So 20 grams, maybe 25 if you're really a big person, a lot of muscle mass or hopefully not but fat mass. So going up to that level, if you are sleep deprived, in this study, it was actually a pretty severe sleep deprivation. It was like a 24-hour sleep deprivation. Those individuals that were given that really high dose of creatine were able to perform cognitive tasks very well, and not only were they're performing them very well, they were performing them better than their well-rested baseline levels, which is fascinating. And again, other studies coming out showing that there seems to be effects in the brain, mostly in the context of stress, resistance training. There's a study in women that were doing a lot of resistance training when they were supplementing with the creatine, 10 grams a day, it improved their sleep. So I do think there's a rationale to go up to 10 grams a day. I can tell you my anic data, and that is I feel like my brain's constantly under stress. I do a lot of learning, a lot of researching. There's a lot going on in my brain that is very stressful. It is a type of stress. Learning is a type of stress. And so when I moved up to 10 grams a day, what I noticed for me is that I have more mental endurance throughout the day. Like I wasn't getting that sort of afternoon slump a little. And it's night and day for me. If I miss that 10 grams and I only do my first five gram dose, I will, it'll come back. And so it could be placebo, as you mentioned, I'm okay with it. Creatine is safe. It's one of the most well studied sports nutrition supplements ever. And so I don't feel, you know, if it's a placebo, my rationale is if it's placebo and it's safe, I'm good. That's fine. It's a real effect. So that's kind of where we're at with creatine. And there's a lot of, again, a lot of researchers are now getting into the brain. Even people that are doing muscle research, like exercise physiologists are seeing the opportunity here because it's so exciting.

Speaker 2:
[110:51] Yeah. One of the things, in addition to omegas and sauna, I attribute exclusively to seeing your clips on Twitter and watching them and consuming them. You changed the sauna habits for me, you also got me taking a sulforaphane, which I love and you mentioned before because I'm terrified of pollutants in the body. But exercise snacks, this has become a thing. You got my whole studio staff doing this now. I was under the mistaken belief for years and many of my friends I work out with were too. That you do your morning workout, resistance train, you do your aerobic exercise, maybe you throw some plios and some flexibility work in there and you're good. Sit down all day at the desk. I have a desk job. I'm not out there digging graves anymore. I did it one time. That is not it. Sitting all day, even after exercising, is probably a quick way to get six feet deep really fast and we do not want to get six feet deep. So I heard you mentioned this idea of exercise snacks and I am now addicted to the 10 squats. I do them every half an hour now. 10 air squats. Unbelievable. Will totally change your life. I lost probably an additional five pounds. I wound up losing about 30 pounds after the whole cancer day. I was just way too heavy in the joints. But the thing about it, Dr. Rhonda, is it's, sorry to go on here, but it's just so, if you have functional and your doctor says it's okay, it is so easy to do and the changes to your body after time are, at least for me, are dramatic.

Speaker 10:
[112:25] Oh, you're preaching to the choir. I love that you're doing 10 body weight squats on the hour. So as you mentioned, being sedentary, even if you're exercising, if you're, we've created these problems with modern day society. It used to be that we were out digging graves and farming and doing agriculture and moving around all day as a part of our work, as a part of our lifestyle, right? And now we have these, we've created this problem of we don't ever move. We're sitting down at our desk at our cubicle, looking at a screen. We're not moving at all. And so we have to like do these weird things like going to the gym. I mean, imagine what like, like, you know, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, like people would be like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2:
[113:12] The gym was the farm in the backyard and they were probably pretty jacked.

Speaker 10:
[113:17] Totally, totally. So, you know, the idea here is that when you're sitting for, in fact, it's six hours or more, when you're sitting down for that length of time, you have an independent risk factor for some diseases, particularly cancer. So I know that you're very obviously very interested in cancer because you're a cancer survivor. And we all should be interested in cancer because cancer is terrible to have to deal with. Really, the best thing you can do is try as much as you can to prevent it. And so exercise snacks are a great way to break up sedentary time. And as you mentioned, they're so easy to do. What is an exercise snack? It has to be at least about a minute in length in time, I would say. Now you're doing 10 bodyweight squats. Probably doesn't take you a minute, probably more like 30 seconds or something. But traditionally it's about a minute, but you're doing them on the hour. And so they can be bodyweight squats. They can be like high knees. They can be jumping jacks, burpees, anything that's getting your heart rate up is the point. And there have been now a lot of studies on these exercise snacks. So what I just talked about was these structured kind of snacks that we do to help break up our sedentary time. Well, there's also what are called unstructured exercise snacks. They're also the name firm is a VILPA, V-I-P-L-A, Vigorous Intermittent Lifestyle Physical Activity. This kind of exercise snack is a situation where people are taking advantage of everyday life to kind of get their heart rate up. So they're going to take the stairs instead of the elevator. They're going to sprint up the stairs. They're going to walk to work or bike to work rather than take their car. They're going to, you know, they're running around sprinting with their kids or grandkids or their new puppy. So you're taking these moments in life to just get your heart rate up, but you're just doing it as part of your life. It's not like a, I'm going to do bodyweight squats sort of structured snack. Right. So these VILPA studies, and there have been quite a few of them that have come out, published in very high impact scientific journals, very high quality. People are wearing these accelerometers around their wrists. So these accelerometers are measuring people's movement. It's an empirical data rather than the old way of, how much did you exercise the last week? And then you take that week and try to expand it for years. It's like, that doesn't really work well. So it's a much stronger source of data because you're measuring something. And so what has been found from multiple studies now is that people, I'm going to give you the robust numbers because they're so mind-blowing. People that are doing three minutes of this intense sort of exercise. So that would probably be more like they're sprinting up the stairs. You know, something that's going to take about three minutes and they do it three times a day. So a total of nine minutes a day of these sort of moments of getting your heart rate up, you know, throughout throughout the day, those individuals have a 40% lower cancer related mortality, 40% lower all cause mortality, 50% lower cardiovascular related mortality than people that are not doing those exercise snacks. And this is even in people that don't identify themselves as being exercisers because they don't go to the gym. They're like, no, I don't work out, but they don't realize that these moments that they're sprinting up the stairs, they're taking the stairs and they're walking, that counts, it counts. And so very, very robust data there. You can also get benefits with doing less than nine minutes. I like the three minute intervals three times a day because boy, that's so robust. You know, I mean, that's a big, those are big numbers. That's a big difference.

Speaker 2:
[116:59] And Dr. Rhonda, the calorie burn, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but the calorie burn, you know, you may say like, oh, what is that burn? 10 extra calories, 15. That's not the point. Over the course of a year where a pound of fat is what? 3,500 calories, am I right? You could burn two or three pounds of fat. And you ever see two or three pounds of fat? I mean, these are real numbers over time for such an almost painless intervention.

Speaker 10:
[117:25] Yes. I'm so glad you brought this up, Dan, because there was just a recent study in the last six months or so that looked, you know, these exercise guidelines that we have, 150 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise, 150 minutes to 300 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise, or 75 minutes to 150 minutes of vigorous exercise. This two to one ratio was like, okay, if you're going harder, you can half the amount of exercise you're doing. Do you ever wonder where that number, where that ratio came from? It came from calorie burn because you burn twice as many calories from doing more higher intensity exercise than you do for moderate intensity. That doesn't come from looking at outcomes like death from cancer, death from cardiovascular disease, death from respiratory disease. That is important because this new study that came out, which actually measured, again, used six accelerometers and actually measured people's physical activities, and then they looked at outcomes. It turns out that these vigorous moments that you're doing and they add up are so much more powerful. For every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, I should define that because in this specific study, vigorous intensity exercise was really exercise that you had intention. Jogging, running, biking, swimming, that those sprinting moments that we're talking about playing with your kids or your puppy, sprinting up the stairs. Those moments were all vigorous. Moderate intensity would be walking. It would be maybe doing some housework. You're getting your heart rate up a little bit, but not that much. So for every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you had to do four minutes of moderate intensity exercise to get the same mortality reduction in all cause mortality. For every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you had to do eight minutes of moderate intensity exercise to get the same reduction in cardiovascular related mortality and heart attacks and strokes. For every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you had to do 10 minutes of moderate intensity exercise to get the same effects on reducing type 2 diabetes incidence. And this goes on and on. I think, you know, and then if you get to the light exercise, that was like a ridiculous, it's ridiculous. You had to do like like 200 minutes. It's ridiculous for every one minute. So the point here is that, you know, I think that we're under appreciating the, you know, the health benefits of vigorous intensity exercise. And the study also showed that it didn't have to be like 30 minutes straight.

Speaker 1:
[119:58] It could be, you know, a minute here. It could be three minutes there. It adds up and that you should be counting those moments. And I agree like the exercise snacks, I also do them. I break up my day with them. I feel good. You're getting blood flow to the brain. I mean, that like immediate, it's immediate mood booster. It's immediate like wake up. You're talking about the cold plunge. This also is another for me important lifestyle hack to just like help improve my mood, to help get me that energy. Like it's like all you have to do is one minute.

Speaker 2:
[120:27] I don't do anything with that. When I was at the FBI, I did not go into a single meeting before doing haircuts. I don't think anybody has said that on the show before, but I don't do it. It's interesting, just to prove to you, I follow your clips everywhere, even when you do guest hits on other people's shows. I don't know, I think you were on Diary of a CEO, maybe it was. I'm not really sure, but the host had said to you, hey, I just saw you doing 10 air squats before you came on the air. You're like, yeah, I don't do the show without it. I thought, wow, that's me. I do that too. Like I stole that from you and it totally works. It gets your brain into like focus mode rather than like lollygagging kind of mode right away.

Speaker 1:
[121:05] For sure. Yeah, I do not. I absolutely have to do a workout no matter what, even if it's only like a quick, you know, few minutes before I before I need my brain to be on for a podcast or a presentation or anything. It's, it's essential. I, I would, I, I, no compromises.

Speaker 2:
[121:22] You've been unbelievably generous with your time. Do you have, do you have time for one more question? I know we've said an hour, but I know my audience is really enjoying all of this. These are really simple ones. And again, this is another thing. I think this is more for me as much as it is for the audience. I always go back and forth with this dinner time question. You know, I don't want to eat late because I don't want the digestive process to interrupt my sleep. I'm, let me just kind of put a little marker here. I'm a terrible sleeper. That's why this matters so much to me. And I really can't function on the show. I'm in a service space where I have to be able to provide this service and I have to think straight. I'm a bad sleeper. So I started eating really, really early, three o'clock dinner, wrapped it up, and did kind of an intermittent fast. But not to fast, more for sleep. The problem I was having is I was getting these massive cortisol spikes from extremely low drops in insulin at night and my sleep was off. So then I started eating a little later, hoping to get kind of a lowered insulin level and a more better baseline of glucose. But then I found myself like with the digestive process. What is the sweet spot people should be eating like hours before bed, where you can get good night's sleep, but also you're not going to be getting fat from processing calories overnight either?

Speaker 1:
[122:46] Or starving. Yeah. So I mean, it's eating, stopping eating at 3 p.m. if you go to bed at nine. I mean, that's a long time.

Speaker 2:
[122:55] I was doing it every day.

Speaker 1:
[122:57] Yeah, that's hardcore, hardcore. The sweet spot here would be about stopping eating three hours before bed. So it takes about, I would say on average, five hours from the moment you stop eating to completely finish digestion. So you're still going to be digesting a little bit when you first get into bed and start falling asleep. Digestion is activating the sympathetic nervous system, right? That is not going to help you sleep. You want the parasympathetic nervous system to be more active. So the sympathetic nervous system for people that are listening and watching, that is your fight or flight mode, right? That's like, I'm on, I'm on, right? That's the stuff that gets activated before you go on stage. You don't want that activated right when you're trying to wind down and go to sleep. Digestion is activating the system. So you don't want to be eating literally right before you go to bed because that's switching on the part of your brain and nervous system that is not what you, that's for being alert and awake, not the calming down, right? The rest and recover. So you want to make sure that you stop eating three hours before bed. It does help with sleep. There have now been multiple studies out there showing that people that do stop eating around three hours before they go to sleep, they sleep better. The other thing, there's two other things I want to point out that's really important. One is that if you are eating late in the evening, so closer one hour before bed, maybe even two hours before bed, you are in your circadian phase of melatonin production. This is the phase you start to make, actually, you start to make melatonin about three hours before your natural bedtime. That's when it starts to get a little bit higher, your melatonin starts to go on. Melatonin is a signal, it's made in the pineal gland, it's a signal for your brain to quiet down, calm down, get sleepy, we're going to rest now. Well, melatonin is also, it's a hormone that affects other tissues, not just the brain. It's also affecting other tissues like the pancreas. What's been shown is that melatonin also, when that melatonin levels go up, it signals to the pancreas to stop making insulin. So the pancreas is what makes insulin. Insulin is very important to make sure glucose gets taken up into tissues and gets out of your system. And so there have been studies that have compared individuals that eat the exact same meal, the exact macronutrient composition, caloric intake, everything in the morning versus the afternoon versus the evening. And what has been shown is that people are less insulin sensitive in the evening. They are less able to properly regulate their blood glucose levels and have glucose being taken up into their tissues if they are eating later in the evening. And that is again because melatonin is signaling to the pancreas to stop making insulin. So you don't want to eat late at night just for metabolic health reasons as well. And the other thing, this is a very new study that came out a couple of months ago, very, very important study. So individuals were wearing these continuous blood pressure monitors. They were actually measuring blood pressure constantly. And first, real first study to do this and look at the effect of late night eating on cardiovascular health. People that did not stop, that they kept eating and like ate up until bedtime. They didn't have what is a very, very important cardiovascular reset for the heart that happens when you're sleeping. It's called a cardiovascular reset. Essentially, it's a very strong dip in blood pressure. Without getting into all the technical details, it's something called the baroreflex that resets. It's very important for cardiovascular health and preventing heart attacks. That wasn't happening as robustly if people were eating up until bedtime. In the individuals that stopped eating three hours before bed, it was a very pronounced cardiovascular dip, that blood pressure dip that's really needed to reset the heart, to reset the cardiovascular system, and you need that reset every night. If you don't get that reset every night, you're really at risk for heart attacks decades later, or maybe even sooner, particularly if there's a family history of cardiovascular disease. So very important for metabolic health, very important for cardiovascular health, very important for sleep, which is important for both those things, right? They're all related. So I think a really good hack, or just an idea to have in your mind is, when do I go to bed normally? Stop eating your food about three hours before that time. Really, it's not that hard. I mean, it's not that hard, right? You go to bed at nine, you stop eating at six.

Speaker 2:
[127:45] I got used to the three o'clock. I mean, it got painful. Sometimes I'd see an ad for like a Burger King Whopper, which I remember, and I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm so hungry at night. But I got used to it, but that solves it for me. Three hours, I'll do the simple math on that. Not complicated. I go to sleep at the same time every night. Dr. Rhonda, I gotta tell you, I was looking forward to this interview more than any other interview I've done in years, and I certainly did not disappoint. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, R-H-O-N-D-A, for those of you who don't know her, you should, Patrick. Common spelling, you can find her on social media platforms, including X, her podcast is Found My Fitness. She has an unbelievable newsletter where you can get all of these and more. We could go on all day. You are obviously welcome back anytime, but I think the audience is gonna get a lot out of this. You're probably gonna wind up saving a lot of lives if they make these little small changes. So thank you so much for joining us. It was a really great honor. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1:
[128:36] Thank you so much, Dan. Really, really enjoy the conversation. You're awesome. I had no idea. I love doing shows like this where there's good chemistry, there's genuine interest in health, and I really enjoyed it. So we'd be happy to come back anytime.

Speaker 2:
[128:50] I was afraid to ask you, and then I saw you on some other podcasts, and I thought to myself, oh, okay, I mean, we cover this stuff, lifestyle stuff as well, and I thought maybe she'll say yes. And then when the folks in your team agreed, I said to the guys, this is the only interview we've ever done kind of inside baseball. We tape at the same time every single day because we're on a hard live stream. We live stream, so we don't have a choice. And they said, well, she's not on East Coast time. I said, I don't care. If she wants to do it two in the morning, I'll come into the damn studio and do it. Doesn't matter to me. I said, I'm doing this interview. So it was great. So thanks for your time. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:
[129:26] Well, thank you. Next time I'll try to make the live time.

Speaker 2:
[129:30] Don't worry. This was great. Thanks, Doc. We'll see you soon. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1:
[129:34] Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[129:35] Folks, thanks so much. I hope you enjoyed that. That is a, please bookmark that episode and go back and watch that again. Because the stuff, the supplement stack, the sauna protocols, the cold plunge, I structured the show that way intentionally to give you easy, easy life hacks from an expert in the space. When you're not an expert, bring in experts and people who know more than you. I promise you, I implement this stuff in my life. It has made a huge difference. The difference, the exercise snacks. Check that out. Be sure to check us out every day on Rumble live at 10 a.m. rumble.com/bongino. You can also download the Rumble app. Please do that. Give us a follow. It is absolutely free. We'll be bringing you more great content like this going forward. I hope you have a great weekend and I'll see you all on Monday.

Speaker 1:
[130:19] Hey there, I'm Vince.

Speaker 2:
[130:20] I'm Hailey Carradia.

Speaker 1:
[130:21] Host of Vince.

Speaker 2:
[130:22] Host of Scrolling with Hailey.

Speaker 1:
[130:23] You can always catch my show right here.

Speaker 2:
[130:25] Right here on The Bongino Report.

Speaker 1:
[130:26] Live 8 a.m. Eastern weekday mornings.

Speaker 2:
[130:29] Weekdays at noon. If you miss it, no worries. The show will always be right here and anywhere you find a podcast. Thanks for watching.