transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Real quick, before we get started, we have something really cool we want to tell you about.

Speaker 2:
[00:02] voidmonster.org is a website started by the MTG artist Forest Imo that drops new TCG-inspired apparel every single month.

Speaker 1:
[00:09] This month's drop is The Green Collection, featuring a super intricate green manna design.

Speaker 2:
[00:13] And this time, the drop is all about the accessories. So you can get a deck box, a play mat, sleeves, and even a binder too.

Speaker 1:
[00:19] Pre-orders only have a week-long period, and they're going on until May 3rd at 12 p.m. Pacific time.

Speaker 2:
[00:24] So use our link in the description below to go to voidmonster.org and get the green collection before it's too late.

Speaker 1:
[00:31] Now let's get into the podcast.

Speaker 2:
[00:32] Here we go.

Speaker 1:
[00:33] Hello.

Speaker 2:
[00:35] Can I look at you?

Speaker 1:
[00:36] You may look.

Speaker 2:
[00:37] Oh, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1:
[00:40] Number one, I want to say this, made it to Master Ball tier in Pokemon Champions, so fucking jot that down.

Speaker 2:
[00:45] Nice, I'm still fucking around in Great Ball.

Speaker 1:
[00:47] But then I also decided to try singles a little bit, and I did, I got to Great Ball in singles. That format sucks. That's not good at all.

Speaker 2:
[00:53] No, what is it? It's just like a bunch of...

Speaker 1:
[00:55] It's the same, you start with six, but you only choose three. So if you lose one mon, it's a third of all of your mons, which feels much more drastic.

Speaker 2:
[01:02] That one mon was three mons?

Speaker 1:
[01:04] Yeah, exactly. And obviously, I don't know what I'm doing, really, so I was making a couple of mistakes, but I was doing pretty good. Your setup time is so much easier. If you have a positive matchup and you're like, iron defense, iron defense, iron defense, body press, you can annihilate them if they didn't get their team right or whatever. And Archeludon is fucking insane. Is that how you say that one? Archeludon? That's how I say it.

Speaker 2:
[01:21] That sounds like a dish.

Speaker 1:
[01:22] But the singles felt like once you get the setup, if you can get the setup, you annihilate them. It feels like it's hard to come back. But that's probably because I don't know the format as much.

Speaker 2:
[01:29] No, I agree. I've been having a lot of fun with my Sun team, although I think I want to take Venusaur off.

Speaker 1:
[01:34] I started with Venusaur and then I realized he kind of sucks.

Speaker 2:
[01:36] We have Whimsicott on the team. That's why.

Speaker 1:
[01:37] Sunny Day that shit.

Speaker 2:
[01:38] Exactly, yes.

Speaker 1:
[01:39] If the weather goes off, Sunny Day comes up.

Speaker 2:
[01:40] Sunny Day has been so helpful and Tailwind has been so helpful. And I feel like if I wasn't on Whimsicott, I would want to be on Venusaur instead. But because I'm on Whimsicott, I don't really need Venusaur. And we were talking like, oh, is it like a mega option? It's not because like if I built it mega, I have to lean into like the defensive bulky thing because it loses chlorophyll and gains thick fat.

Speaker 1:
[02:00] Thick fat's crazy. And like the bulky stuff is good. But I feel like since our brains are small, we need to attack.

Speaker 2:
[02:04] Oh, I'm very aggro in VGC.

Speaker 1:
[02:06] Don't around with defending. Like I don't know the math. My charge are big. He do big heat wave. That's what I want to do.

Speaker 2:
[02:11] I don't want to give you the option to like crit me at an opportune time.

Speaker 1:
[02:14] Yeah. But also, dude, I, we've talked about this before. Encore is like my favorite move ever. Encore is like my favorite move ever. If you can like finagle the situation. I had this come up twice recently where I finagle it into like a 2v1 at the end and I encore them into protect. And then I just like encore, encore, encore, and then just annihilate them with the other Mon. It makes the end game so much like, okay, if I can see a definitive end here because of encore.

Speaker 2:
[02:34] Last night, I used Sunny Day to change the rain and then encored Archeludon into its move that needs the rain to be up to attack every turn. And I had guard chomp out and then, and then this.

Speaker 1:
[02:45] Yeah, they're so dead.

Speaker 2:
[02:46] Just concede.

Speaker 1:
[02:47] Don't embarrass yourself. Just concede. Okay, we'll talk about more about you.

Speaker 2:
[02:52] We could do a whole Champions Podcast right now, but this is here right now. This is.

Speaker 1:
[02:57] Let's talk about the Secrets of Strixhaven.

Speaker 2:
[02:59] Yeah, nobody knows anything about this set except for us.

Speaker 1:
[03:02] Except for us and everyone else. You should stand up straight.

Speaker 2:
[03:04] Yeah, I'm just trying to make sure.

Speaker 1:
[03:05] Should I lower the camera down a little bit more?

Speaker 2:
[03:07] Yeah, I'm going to slouch. Yeah. Do you have a phone book, like a booster seat?

Speaker 1:
[03:10] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:11] No, I bet it's straight.

Speaker 1:
[03:12] Cubby can fix it.

Speaker 2:
[03:13] Cubby Burton just flashed.

Speaker 1:
[03:14] Cubby Burton. You ready?

Speaker 2:
[03:17] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:17] This podcast is brought to you in part by Dragon Shield. Use code PLAYTOWIN5 with the link down below for 5% off to help support the show. Take it like a kiss. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:31] Welcome to The Play to Win Podcast, where we talk about winning in CEDH. That was way harder than I thought it would be.

Speaker 1:
[03:40] Sesame Street style, I feel like. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:42] Those are the letters of the day. And I'm Cam.

Speaker 1:
[03:45] I'm Dylan. This week we are talking about Secrets of Strixhaven, the new set that's coming out. This weekend, the pre-release for you watching was last weekend. The set releases this weekend. We're going to talk about our thoughts on the cards in the set for CEDH. And if any of them are any good, there's a couple good ones. There's a couple bad ones that we'll talk about anyway.

Speaker 2:
[04:00] I believe everything that you just said.

Speaker 1:
[04:02] Yes. A Scout's honor.

Speaker 2:
[04:03] I'm an Eagle Scout, so I got it. All my honor. I will do my best to do my duty to God in my country to obey the Scout law. LOL. Yeah, you did. No, I haven't said it since I was 18.

Speaker 1:
[04:13] I was a Cub Scout, and in the day I became a Boy Scout, I was like, that's enough for me. No, thank you.

Speaker 2:
[04:17] So you did the arrow.

Speaker 1:
[04:18] The only part that I remember is the cars. Cars with the weights. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[04:22] I made a Pepsi machine the one year.

Speaker 1:
[04:23] That makes Pepsi or?

Speaker 2:
[04:24] No, it was just a wood block because I didn't want to do any work on it.

Speaker 1:
[04:27] I did make a Pepsi machine. It doesn't work.

Speaker 2:
[04:29] I just painted it to look like a Pepsi machine and I put wheels on it. And that's what they're made of.

Speaker 1:
[04:33] It was like rectangle shape. You had to have lost that by a lot.

Speaker 2:
[04:35] Oh, yeah, I did.

Speaker 1:
[04:36] You got an eyeliner, right? Aerodynamic was the key. I had a great car one year. It was like perfectly designed aerodynamic. I had my stepdad at the time. Who knows cars and stuff helped me out. And then like right before the final race, I put the car on the ground and I think it got dust on the wheels and it slowed it down and I lost. I felt real bad about that one.

Speaker 2:
[04:52] I hear you. It affects your life every single day, I think.

Speaker 1:
[04:55] I shouldn't have put the fucking dust on those wheels. I wouldn't have won that race.

Speaker 2:
[04:58] God damn it.

Speaker 1:
[04:59] Let's talk about the cards in this set. You have a list in front of you. Do you want to go by color, alphabet? How do we normally do it? Switch every time?

Speaker 2:
[05:05] We should switch every time. Let's go by...

Speaker 1:
[05:07] I want to say color.

Speaker 2:
[05:08] Do you want to go color identity or just color?

Speaker 1:
[05:11] Commander style.

Speaker 2:
[05:12] Cool. Well, let's start with white.

Speaker 1:
[05:14] White cards.

Speaker 2:
[05:14] And let's talk about a road.

Speaker 1:
[05:16] A road.

Speaker 2:
[05:17] This is what's happening to all my brain cells.

Speaker 1:
[05:20] I think I can remember what this one is off the top of my head. Let me see. It is for a white mana singular.

Speaker 2:
[05:23] I'm gonna make you do this to all these cards.

Speaker 1:
[05:24] White mana singular, instance. It says destroy a target creature or planeswalker. Its controller may search the library for a basic land to put in to play tapped.

Speaker 2:
[05:32] Then...

Speaker 1:
[05:33] There's more stuff than that?

Speaker 2:
[05:34] Shuffle.

Speaker 1:
[05:34] Oh, then shuffle. Wouldn't that be funny if it didn't say that? You can just stack your deck wherever you want after that. That's the important part.

Speaker 2:
[05:41] Yeah, then put whatever cards in your deck you want on top.

Speaker 1:
[05:43] Okay, I was gonna say, remember when they used to say you should shuffle your library and they just got rid of it?

Speaker 2:
[05:46] You just get up and just do a little dance.

Speaker 1:
[05:48] Shuffle your hand if you want.

Speaker 2:
[05:50] Kind of like this card.

Speaker 1:
[05:51] It's almost good. I don't know if it's great in CDH. We have a lot of good options. Sword Supply or Share is still way better. Why do you need more than two pieces of interaction to kill creatures? More than one, realistically.

Speaker 2:
[05:59] I guess Pact of Exile is even better than this, too, because Exile is better than Destroy.

Speaker 1:
[06:04] In a vacuum, I would say Exile is better than Destroy, but what indestructible creatures do we have? Kind of none, but them going to Exile rather than the graveyard might be relevant.

Speaker 2:
[06:13] That's really what I mean. So that way it doesn't fuel Underworld Breach for some reason.

Speaker 1:
[06:17] Yeah, it can't eternal witness it back later or something like that.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] Or something something Sevinne's Reclamation, too.

Speaker 1:
[06:22] But your Sevinne's Reclamation, Underworld Breach is rarely creatures, if you're Sevinne'sing a creature. But I guess you could Sevinne's Reclamation a planeswalker, but the Path to Exile doesn't hit the planeswalker either way.

Speaker 2:
[06:30] The Path to Exile doesn't hit that. And I guess if there's a lot of Cisse in your meta, this might be like an upside to that too.

Speaker 1:
[06:35] It might be something.

Speaker 2:
[06:36] Maybe like in the rare times that you would have to Path to Exile yourself for a land.

Speaker 1:
[06:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[06:42] Now you can Sevinne's Reclamation back whatever you have to erode.

Speaker 1:
[06:45] Planeswalkers, obviously we always talk about not super great in our format, but there are a couple of ones that have seen a little bit more play recently. I've seen a lot more Cisse lists play things like Ashiok. So if you want to like not get got by the Ashiok, they search library for Ashiok, still with your Tudor on the stack, erode the Ashiok and then go Tudor. That's something.

Speaker 2:
[07:01] Tezzeret Cruel Captain is one that stays in play, and people really want to stick around for a while. So that's a good like engine that you can get rid of for people.

Speaker 1:
[07:08] And Tezzeret can be like kind of a powerful, like almost like combo engine with Displacer Kitten. So like being able to stop that in its tracks, although probably just kill the Displacer Kitten instead realistically. But you have the option. You have the choice.

Speaker 2:
[07:19] Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:
[07:20] There's a couple other Planeswalkers that see some amount of play. We talked about Cisse and there's some like Tyvar, like in the middle of a Tyvar loop, destroy the Tyvar. But again, like your Sword Supply Shores could also hit the Drevi, which would be better because you're exiling it and then they can't get it back or whatever. In the situations that I'm thinking of that you want to hit the Planeswalker, you could hit Bloom Tender instead. You can still hit the creature for most of the time. And like Narset, Part of Veils is a card that I always think should be good in CDH and just never really pops up. But if it ever is good or if it's good in your meta, maybe this could be something. I don't really like changing my removal to be able to get rid of specific things. I would like a wall. I want to get rid of as many broad things as possible. But really I want like Chain of Vapor as my removal.

Speaker 2:
[07:56] I want to bounce a non-Land permanent, right?

Speaker 1:
[07:57] I want to bounce a non-Land permanent. We've already talked so much about this card. I think it will see play in other formats, but CDH it's going to be like if you're in one or two colors in white and you want like a third creature removal.

Speaker 2:
[08:06] Because you're not in blue. Because one of your colors is not blue.

Speaker 1:
[08:09] And you're maybe also not in black because I think this member might also, I have a preference towards this member, but I think this member also might be better than this.

Speaker 2:
[08:15] Probably in some decks, but that's the only good black removal spell that we have that's not Deadly Rolik though too, I guess.

Speaker 1:
[08:22] It weirdly is in the conversation of like top five creature removal in CDH.

Speaker 2:
[08:26] It's better than that manifest one that we just got a little bit ago for sure.

Speaker 1:
[08:30] We've gotten a couple that are like that where like they make two clues or they make whatever.

Speaker 2:
[08:34] Whatever is flavorful for the set that we're in now.

Speaker 1:
[08:36] One mana is just like insane.

Speaker 2:
[08:37] This is just a classically good version of this card that's going to be like a staple in formats that might not have Pat the Exile. Is Pat the Exile not in Pioneer? Is Pioneer existing in Magic anymore?

Speaker 1:
[08:49] Everyone cares about Pioneer.

Speaker 2:
[08:50] Well, let's shut the fuck up about that and this then.

Speaker 1:
[08:52] This is like two would be generous.

Speaker 2:
[08:54] Out of five, by the way. So a five is a CEDH staple that goes in every single deck. A four is a good card that goes in a bunch of CEDH decks. A three probably goes in one or two decks. A two you could play if you really wanted to, but there's a lot of better options. And a one is a CEDH card that really you shouldn't play. It's not really a CEDH card.

Speaker 1:
[09:12] And then zero is not a CEDH card.

Speaker 2:
[09:14] Bracket four or lower. That's our white cards. That's it.

Speaker 1:
[09:18] Let's move on to the next color.

Speaker 2:
[09:19] Here we go. We're gonna move to blue and talk about Cubby, I'm sure did something great with that.

Speaker 1:
[09:25] He'll make you look good. I'm sure.

Speaker 2:
[09:26] I've noticed that. Yeah. There's way more coughing involved in the podcast since Cubby took over.

Speaker 1:
[09:30] Every time we tell Cubby like, Hey Cubby, cut that. He's like, actually, I will accentuate this and make it the joke.

Speaker 2:
[09:36] What can I do to you?

Speaker 1:
[09:39] All right.

Speaker 2:
[09:39] And Exhibition Tidecaller is next. This is a one mana Jin Wizard that's an O2 with Opus, which I fucking love that we have a name called that now.

Speaker 1:
[09:48] Like it has Opus? Like that's the name of it's like italicized ability?

Speaker 2:
[09:51] It just has Opus. I want to have Opus so bad.

Speaker 1:
[09:54] But no other card has Opus, right? This is just like a name given to its ability that they do now.

Speaker 2:
[09:58] I bet that other things have Opus. I don't know that we'll talk about them or that I saw any other cards with Opus.

Speaker 1:
[10:03] Sorry, I'm distracting too much. What does the card do?

Speaker 2:
[10:04] If I'm being honest, yeah. But whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, target player mills three cards. If five or more mana were spent to cast that spell, that player mills ten cards instead.

Speaker 1:
[10:15] Envision this, you have Underworld Breach in play.

Speaker 2:
[10:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:17] You have, why can't I remember the name of it? The three mana instant that you draw two cards, discard two cards, untap three lands?

Speaker 2:
[10:22] Careful Study.

Speaker 1:
[10:23] Nope.

Speaker 2:
[10:23] No, fuck, that was close. Frantic Search.

Speaker 1:
[10:25] Frantic Search. Frantic Search and three lands in play.

Speaker 2:
[10:28] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:28] Right, you untap your three lands and you cast it for free. When this triggers, you'll exile three cards and you'll also draw and discard two cards. And then you can use those three cards to recast the Frantic Search. Untap your lands and then tap them again to recast it and mill yourself out again. It's kind of like a build your own grinding station.

Speaker 2:
[10:42] Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1:
[10:43] Grinding station with a Mox Opal works in a very similar way, except you net mana through the process. Whereas instead of netting mana with this card, you net two additional cards in your graveyard each time because the cards that you mill over, you have to exile them to recast Frantic Search and then you draw and discard two cards and then you have two more cards in your graveyard.

Speaker 2:
[10:59] Yeah, and I think that works. This is also kind of like a weird DRC too, I would think.

Speaker 1:
[11:03] Weird DRC, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[11:04] Except like, I like DRC that if you like what's on top, you can go, oh, I would like that please, but if you're just trying to like turbo an underworld breach situation, like this makes sure that your intuition will win you the game because it also gets you three free cards into your graveyard too.

Speaker 1:
[11:19] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[11:19] One of them was Savene's Reclamation, now I can go get something else.

Speaker 1:
[11:23] Whereas like I see DRC see some play in blue farm type decks, whereas this is like, DRC is an actual infinite in the breach line. It's just like really helpful and gets you there pretty quick. This can like can go infinite. It also works with like snap, except you need a bunch of other creatures to be able to keep going, or you need like one of your lands like make enough mana to be able to recast this thing. I don't know what that would look like because of the blue situation. You need like utopia sprawl or something weird.

Speaker 2:
[11:45] But I mean, it's just a win condition on its own. Cause if you just cast an infinite number of incident sorcery spells, you just mill out your opponents then too.

Speaker 1:
[11:52] Sure, if you're casting infinite spells, I'm sure that wins the game. But yes, this is, this took a little bit extra.

Speaker 2:
[11:57] It just works really nicely with Thassa's Oracle in general.

Speaker 1:
[12:00] Sure, I think this is nothing, but like the fact that like if someone top deck tutors and you cast an incident sorcery, you source a plowshare of somebody else, trigger this, mill that person for what they're tutored for.

Speaker 2:
[12:09] This kind of feels like if a deck like the Wandering Minstrel likes Hedron Crab, if there's like a version of Wandering Minstrel that cares so much about their graveyard and incidents and sorceries, I think this might be something. Like if you're, I don't know what that deck is off the top of my head.

Speaker 1:
[12:23] Some sort of breach deck, it doesn't have any power though, right?

Speaker 2:
[12:25] No power.

Speaker 1:
[12:26] If it had power, I would say like, oh, maybe this is actually a blue Thumb card because you could attack with Tymna. It still honestly might be, it might be a little bit too niche, but the fact that this combos with the most powerful card in our format, Underworld Breach, I don't know if that's a hot take or not, but I think Breach is like kind of breach-

Speaker 2:
[12:39] It's the best winning condition.

Speaker 1:
[12:40] Best winning condition, right? It combos with that. You would have to play Frantic Surge, which isn't a card that sees tons of play in those style of decks, but is a card that does see play in Storm decks. Maybe like Raoul would want to play something like this. Maybe you want to lean more into like a guy's cradle version of an Underworld Breach type of deck.

Speaker 2:
[12:54] If you're on VV.

Speaker 1:
[12:55] If you're on VV, like there are Storm decks that want to play this. I can see this card being a card.

Speaker 2:
[12:59] A lot of those decks don't have a way to get Underworld Breach back if you mill it over though.

Speaker 1:
[13:03] You kind of want the Breach first and then like get this and then go a little bit or just like hope that you don't hit the Breach. Like what are the odds you hit exactly Breach?

Speaker 2:
[13:10] Interestingly enough, maybe this is a Rograk Isshai card where part of your win condition against decks that aren't prepared like have to draw their whole deck is that you're going to mill them out over the course of the game. And as you're interacting, you're getting rid of their resources as they keep drawing cards with their heuristic studies.

Speaker 1:
[13:29] I hate that so much. I don't like that because you could accidentally feed them. You could like give them resources in their graveyard so that their breaches are better or something.

Speaker 2:
[13:35] Or you're leaving the heuristic studies in play and feeding them all the time. Like your whole strategy is to make sure that everyone draws cards.

Speaker 1:
[13:40] So you're like in your head, you're like envisioning you can like naturally mill them out with this.

Speaker 2:
[13:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:44] Hmm.

Speaker 2:
[13:45] No, it's bad.

Speaker 1:
[13:46] That's bad. That part's bad.

Speaker 2:
[13:47] I think this card needs a rating based on its ability to be a grinding station.

Speaker 1:
[13:53] Did I say Ranger Captain of Eos? Ranger Captain of Eos. You can find this with Ranger Captain. That's the one job I don't have to say that all the time, but that's kind of fun. Does this have a keyword? Does this have flying or something?

Speaker 2:
[14:01] No, it just has opus.

Speaker 1:
[14:01] It's just the opus, right?

Speaker 2:
[14:03] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[14:04] This is, I think, better than a road. I would say this could be one of those quiet best cards in the format. And holy shit, we have another way to go with Underwood Breach. And maybe that's nuts. This could be a fucking four. I don't think so. I think Brain Freeze and Grinding Station are both better than this because grinding station works with all of the mana rocks that you already want to play.

Speaker 2:
[14:19] Yeah, you don't need like one specific card to go off with.

Speaker 1:
[14:23] Grinding Station is for colorless mana, which is, at least for rocks, I often extremely relevant because I can use my extra mana vault mana to cast this, sack the mana vault, get an extra mill, whereas this you have to get into board like first.

Speaker 2:
[14:34] But this also works if you like are in a spot where like LED or Lotus Petal are kind of like not there, but Dark Ritual is there. And now every time you cast Dark Ritual from your graveyard, you get to mill over and then you can just do it again. And then that way you just make like a... Maybe not infinite black because you have to go through your deck, but you have as much black or red mana as you need because it works with Rite of Flame. Any Ritual. Any Ritual.

Speaker 1:
[14:58] You have to recast it, so not culling the weak, but like Rite of Flame, you could go infinite with that.

Speaker 2:
[15:02] Yeah, you can.

Speaker 1:
[15:03] The Ball Ritual, as long as you can, right? You can go infinite with that.

Speaker 2:
[15:05] Exactly, yeah. Any Ritual works really well with this.

Speaker 1:
[15:08] Maybe this is a really good card. Is this a really good card or a medium card?

Speaker 2:
[15:10] This bumped it up a whole number for me, I think. I think this is a solidly 3.5 is what I want to give it.

Speaker 1:
[15:15] It can actually just be better than, I don't know. It seems similar to grinding station. It's cheaper than grinding station.

Speaker 2:
[15:19] It is way cheaper than grinding station, but like, okay, couple other things though. It is blue, which means that if you can pitch it to everything that you want.

Speaker 1:
[15:27] Stack it to Flare of the Blue, Flare of Blue.

Speaker 2:
[15:29] Maybe you get to play Flare of Denial in your deck because of this now too. Like here's a one drop creature that you're going to have. Like this.

Speaker 1:
[15:35] It blocks, so like that's kind of irrelevant, but it blocks.

Speaker 2:
[15:38] But that also fuels underworld breach.

Speaker 1:
[15:40] Yeah, it doesn't die immediately to a Bowmaster enters trigger, which is nice. This might be about as good as grinding station, the more I think about it. The fact that I realize now with the ritual thing, that you don't need specifically bad frantic search, you can just do it with any ritual.

Speaker 2:
[15:52] It's actually really nice with just like a ritual.

Speaker 1:
[15:54] Oh, that's good. I think this is a four. I think this is a four.

Speaker 2:
[15:57] A four?

Speaker 1:
[15:57] I think this is a four.

Speaker 2:
[15:58] I think I'm going to give it a 3.5 because I could see it not be in there, but I think we talked about a lot of really, really good synergy with it. The Ranger Captain of Veos thing makes me think this actually could be a blue farm card, like for fucking real.

Speaker 1:
[16:10] Read it again. Am I reading it wrong? Target player mills three cards.

Speaker 2:
[16:13] If five or more mana were spent to cast that spell, that player mills ten cards instead.

Speaker 1:
[16:18] I don't care about that. You could like...

Speaker 2:
[16:19] Ad nauseum.

Speaker 1:
[16:20] But if you wait, if five or more mana was spent to cast it, so not if I cast Forcible for free.

Speaker 2:
[16:24] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[16:25] Okay, okay.

Speaker 2:
[16:25] So that's why it has to be like ad nauseum or something like that.

Speaker 1:
[16:28] And you mill ten off ad nauseum. That's kind of nothing.

Speaker 2:
[16:29] Or you mill someone ten off an ad nauseum.

Speaker 1:
[16:33] Yeah, get them down. I do understand what you were saying earlier. If you're just like grinding, grinding, grinding, and like the game never ends, and just like every time you counter spell, mill someone three, you're gonna do that to three players though. That feels not as good. I think this is a four. I think actually the more I think about it, I think this might be an actual real card.

Speaker 2:
[16:47] We spent a lot of time on the first two cards. We gotta keep going here. Pensive Professor, we don't have to spend a ton of time on, but this one's funny because for one and two blue, you get another O2, but this one has increment, which says whenever you cast a spell, if the amount of mana you spent is greater than this creature's power or toughness, you put a plus one plus one counter on this creature. Now whenever one or more counters are put on this creature, you draw a card.

Speaker 1:
[17:08] This works with Lannis.

Speaker 2:
[17:10] You're absolutely right. I had to message our patron, Olding Groomfy, last night when I was looking at this. I was like...

Speaker 1:
[17:15] The one guy on the planet who plays this deck probably likes this card.

Speaker 2:
[17:18] His whole Discord was talking about it though.

Speaker 1:
[17:20] Yes, okay.

Speaker 2:
[17:21] If you're going through your Extruder line, you get to put infinite plus one plus one counters on your Lannis, your Extruder, and whatever other creatures you have. And that means that with just this and Extruder, you now have a two card combo with your Commander. Not you now, like this existed with Fathom Mage, but it's way easier.

Speaker 1:
[17:37] Another one.

Speaker 2:
[17:38] Yeah, it's way easier because it's a whole less mana and a whole less color pip, and you still get to draw your whole deck out.

Speaker 1:
[17:43] Is there any other home for this? Like whenever you put a counter on it, draw a card.

Speaker 2:
[17:47] No, whenever you put a plus one plus one counter on it.

Speaker 1:
[17:49] Okay, yeah, I don't think there's anywhere else this could go, but like whenever you do blank draw a card, I like that line of text. That's a good line of text.

Speaker 2:
[17:55] It does have, also whenever you cast a spell, if the amount of mana you spent on it is greater than the creature's power, and it starts with zero. So if you cast a one mana spell, it's not even instant or sorcery, like everything else in the set is.

Speaker 1:
[18:07] Cast a Sol Ring draw card. Cast a Grim Monolith draw card.

Speaker 2:
[18:10] Yeah, and then on your Timna, you get to draw a third card.

Speaker 1:
[18:13] How much mana is this? Total of three?

Speaker 2:
[18:14] It's three.

Speaker 1:
[18:15] Yucky, yucky, yucky. This is like-

Speaker 2:
[18:16] No, it's not good for that. It's good for Lanus.

Speaker 1:
[18:19] Like the frog prodigy.

Speaker 2:
[18:20] Pollywog prodigy.

Speaker 1:
[18:21] But only for yourself, and only a very, very limited amount of times.

Speaker 2:
[18:24] But it's a wizard, so you can get it with step through.

Speaker 1:
[18:27] You would never. But you could.

Speaker 2:
[18:29] Lanus would.

Speaker 1:
[18:30] Yeah, this is below a three, because it only goes in, I think, one deck, and that deck is, no offense, not really a great deck that sees a ton of plays.

Speaker 2:
[18:38] It's a fun bro. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[18:39] I would give it a 2.5, though, because I think it does have a home in a weird deck.

Speaker 2:
[18:42] A solidly 2.5, yeah. Does this card have a home? It's called Thunder Clap Drake.

Speaker 1:
[18:47] Oh, I saw it. I didn't see this until you put it on the list, but I think this is a Raoul card, right?

Speaker 2:
[18:51] Oh, do you know why? Because it's a reprint. Is it? I'm realizing it's a reprint.

Speaker 1:
[18:54] No shit. Cut that crap.

Speaker 2:
[18:55] Ominous Harvest. This is two and a black for a sorcery with Gravestorm, thing we haven't seen in a long time.

Speaker 1:
[19:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[19:01] So whenever you cast this spell, you copy it for each permanent, put into a graveyard from the battlefield this turn, and you could have target player draws a card and loses one life.

Speaker 1:
[19:12] For three mana.

Speaker 2:
[19:12] For three mana. Yeah. For two and a black, but it's for every single thing that went to the graveyard.

Speaker 1:
[19:17] Korvold fucking loves this card, number one.

Speaker 2:
[19:19] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:20] Korvold loves this card. If you can get it to go off, like this could be super crazy. This could also like, I don't want to say stop loops. Like if someone's going through a breach line and you get them with this and force them to draw your whole deck, it's a storm situation.

Speaker 2:
[19:31] Oh, you can't because it's a sorcery.

Speaker 1:
[19:33] It's a sorcery. This card sucks. Sorry.

Speaker 2:
[19:35] So here's my question. Are treasures cards?

Speaker 1:
[19:38] Treasures are not cards.

Speaker 2:
[19:40] But they are permanents?

Speaker 1:
[19:41] They are permanents, but they're not cards. So you say permanent or card?

Speaker 2:
[19:44] Copy for each permanent put into a graveyard.

Speaker 1:
[19:46] It works for treasures.

Speaker 2:
[19:47] So if you crack treasures and that's...

Speaker 1:
[19:48] Any tokens, if they go to the graveyard, this will trigger.

Speaker 2:
[19:51] That will work.

Speaker 1:
[19:52] If you're doing Tim the Dargo situations, sack a whole bunch of stuff to cast Dargo, cast this, throw a bunch of cards.

Speaker 2:
[19:56] Oh, that seems really cool. Yeah, in like any Dargo deck, I guess also in a Culleen Ritual deck, cast Culleen Ritual and then use three of the mana that you make to draw a fuck ton of cards.

Speaker 1:
[20:08] There's a small situation that this card will be divination or worse in your hand, and that is devastating.

Speaker 2:
[20:13] But it could be necropotence.

Speaker 1:
[20:15] It could be draw 30 cards. So I don't really know. Ceiling seems high, floor seems super low.

Speaker 2:
[20:20] I think realistically, if it hits you anywhere between eight and 13, I think you're really happy.

Speaker 1:
[20:25] Three mana to draw eight cards is sort of like uncounterably so because of the copying that it makes. Like they can't just like fucking force a will. If there's seven, or you'll draw seven instead of eight.

Speaker 2:
[20:33] That's the thing, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:34] That's huge. That's like the strongest part about this card.

Speaker 2:
[20:37] But you're right. If you do have Valley Floodcaller and someone is breaching, like you can start to flash this in and start to put copies on, you know, players that are decked out. Shout out to them.

Speaker 1:
[20:45] Shout out decked out. I think this card's almost something. I'm not positive because it feels like the floor is super low. And if you top deck it at the wrong time or whatever, it can be really bad. It just draws you cards, but like, drawing cards is so fucking good. I want to draw cards. That feels really powerful. And three mana is cheap. Like you said, if this can, I mean, drawing five would be powerful, but like, I don't know, necessarily CDH strength.

Speaker 2:
[21:02] Not great. Yeah. I'm not in love with drawing five.

Speaker 1:
[21:04] Yeah. When did you get into eight or like 10? If you can draw 10 cards off of this, powerful card.

Speaker 2:
[21:08] But yeah, if I like crack a fetch land and then sacrifice a creature.

Speaker 1:
[21:13] I don't think Rog wants this, but I don't know. I could see a world where like he has a lot of times in Rog you're just like stacking three things and then cast ad nauseam and like that's way better than this. You know what I mean? I don't want to like stack three things and draw three cards. That's not good.

Speaker 2:
[21:24] I'm thinking of this in like a calling ritual situation because after a calling ritual, if I add nauseam, it's really good. After a calling ritual, if I demonic tutor into any other black or green card, it's good. And if this is just like a card that I have in my hand after I calling ritual, I'm going to get a ton of value.

Speaker 1:
[21:39] That's a win the game right there. That's a two card combo.

Speaker 2:
[21:41] That'll feel like a win the game. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:42] I think this has potential. I don't know exactly where Dargo, Timnit and Corvold are like the closest option I can think of. And there's maybe a couple of other decks.

Speaker 2:
[21:48] Jund Rograk. I think if you're on Jund Rograk, I would seriously consider this.

Speaker 1:
[21:52] I could see something like that. I could be wrong about this one. I think this one is around a three ish. What did you give a 3.5 to?

Speaker 2:
[21:57] I gave a 3.5 to the thing that's really good, the exhibition Tidecaller. I don't want to say this one.

Speaker 1:
[22:01] I think this one's worse than that. I'm going to give this one a solid 2.8.

Speaker 2:
[22:04] Like a 3.09. I want to give it. Yeah. So that's what it has.

Speaker 1:
[22:09] It's almost a card in some decks. I think I could be wrong. It could be way better than I'm thinking, but the floor feels too low for me to give it a high rating at the gate. So I want to see you play a couple of times.

Speaker 2:
[22:17] There are way too many red cards that we have to talk about for some reason. Blazing Fire Singer is a two and a red for a two, three. That is a Dwarf Bard. Oh my God. This works with Magda. I didn't even put that together. Yeah. It enters prepared. While it's prepared, you can cast Seething Song with it.

Speaker 1:
[22:34] Right. This is the first time we're bringing up prepared so far. What you said is what it does. Once it's prepared, you can cast the Instant Assaults reattached to it.

Speaker 2:
[22:40] And then doing so unprepares it.

Speaker 1:
[22:43] I think most of the prepared cards are traps for CDH. I think they look powerful on the surface because they are strong cards, but Demonic Tutor is not powerful because of the effect. It's powerful because of the mana cost. Two mana is strong to Searcher's Library. Six mana, not so strong. That's another one that we're talking about now. Maybe Cubby has it on screen, but like the extra mana for the effect, that makes the card not good.

Speaker 2:
[23:01] Exactly, yeah, in Limited, it's broken. Having a four mana creature that later for two mana, you can Demonic Tutor, that's broken. Having a five mana creature that for one extra blue mana, you can draw three cards, in Limited, that is broken.

Speaker 1:
[23:13] The three mana one allows you to surveil at certain points and then reanimate something, that seems really good.

Speaker 2:
[23:17] There's a lot of gross stuff that's going on in Limited for this format, I think. But in the CEDH perspective, a lot of these effects just end up being two mana. By the time you're allowed to draw three cards, you have to put six mana into it. So one ring at least is four mana to let you draw three cards.

Speaker 1:
[23:32] And it gets better and better and better over time, whereas these get worse and worse and worse over time, because you have to re-prepare them in certain ways.

Speaker 2:
[23:36] Because they're only good with Displacer Kitten.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] They're all reasonable with Displacer Kitten, and the only reason why this one is on the list is because it goes actual infinite with Displacer Kitten.

Speaker 2:
[23:45] You make plenty of mana so that that way, whenever you seed in song with this creature, your Displacer Kitten trigger, because it counts as casting an instant or sorcery, and not on creature spell. So that will trigger your Displacer Kitten so that you can re-blink the Blazing Fire Singer, and that will re-prepare it to give you a new seeding song. And you already have two red mana sitting right there. So that means that you make infinite red mana with just these two creatures and the free seeding song that you have.

Speaker 1:
[24:08] 3dmg5, 3dmg5, 3dmg5. I do see some Rograk Thrasios decks play Displacer Kitten. Maybe that deck who's playing Displacer Kitten in that style would want this as well as another way to go infinite.

Speaker 2:
[24:18] Is it funny that it's like a Gaius Cradle creature that for one less mana can get you a Thrasios activation if you really need one?

Speaker 1:
[24:25] Yeah, I could see something like that. It's a lot of mana. You spend four mana on Displacer Kitten and then you spend three mana on this and then you spent another three mana. So we're up to four plus three is seven plus three is ten. You spend ten mana to make infinite mana. Why not just play omniscience?

Speaker 2:
[24:38] Omniscience, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:39] Why not just play omniscience? Obviously, that's a little hyperbolic.

Speaker 2:
[24:42] Why do you want to play omniscience, though?

Speaker 1:
[24:43] Doesn't that make all your things free?

Speaker 2:
[24:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:45] So same thing.

Speaker 2:
[24:45] Oh, I guess, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:46] That doesn't even help you guess.

Speaker 2:
[24:47] Why not just play omniscience?

Speaker 1:
[24:48] Yeah, that doesn't activate Thrasios, though. So I guess omniscience would be worse. At least you split it up amongst two different creatures. They're easier to search for. Obviously, I'm thinking, but it's a lot of manna to invest. But I think that could make this one kind of reasonable. There's probably a couple other weird homes where this might be good.

Speaker 2:
[25:01] Yeah, like Magda, because it's a dwarf. I don't think so, though, right?

Speaker 1:
[25:04] Because you're joking. Because what are you going to do with five manna?

Speaker 2:
[25:07] Nothing. What are you going to do? This doesn't make five treasures. And whoa, if it made five treathers.

Speaker 1:
[25:11] Oh, baby.

Speaker 2:
[25:12] Hello, ominous harvest. Here I come.

Speaker 1:
[25:14] There could be a world where like this is just like seething song on suspend is reasonable in a storm deck. I don't really think that's the case.

Speaker 2:
[25:20] Not Natali, I'll tell you that.

Speaker 1:
[25:22] Yeah, I think he got, although, no, yeah, not Natali. No, yeah, not Natali.

Speaker 2:
[25:27] Like in theory, you could cast this on turn one and then on turn two, seething songs.

Speaker 1:
[25:31] Yeah, that's bad then, because where do you have to find two more mana still?

Speaker 2:
[25:34] That's the thing. Yeah, seething song is good because people don't know about it until you cast it. Like that's what makes seething song good.

Speaker 1:
[25:40] I don't think it's going to see play in other decks, but I could see a world. I could see a world where I'm wrong about that. I think it's got to be Displacerkin. I'm not even sure about that. There's the other one, too, the Ancestral Recall that's gotten a lot of hype, the Arch of Emeritus. No, that's not what it is.

Speaker 2:
[25:51] No, but I didn't put it on the list.

Speaker 1:
[25:53] We're not going to talk about that one, because yes, you Displacerkin and draw three over and over again, but you have to get the blue man somewhere else.

Speaker 2:
[25:57] You don't have to just play Seedborn Muse in your Thrasios deck instead.

Speaker 1:
[26:01] I think this card is like a two, 2.5. I could be wrong, and it could be like a solid three. And in Rodgeric Thrasios, this is actually incredible. That could be true. I'm not sold on that, but that's where I'm seeing it right now. And maybe, yeah, maybe, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[26:13] 2.25 is what I'll give it, yeah. Choreographed Spark Dancer. This is two red, so it's red red, so that means that you have to pay one red mana and then a second red mana to cast the spell.

Speaker 1:
[26:23] Well said.

Speaker 2:
[26:23] And now you get an instant for that, that can't be copied, but you get to choose one or both. So you can copy, target, instant or sorcery spell you control and choose new targets for the copy. And then you can copy, target, creature spell you control, and the copy gains at the beginning of the next end step, Sacrifice this Token.

Speaker 1:
[26:39] Nine mana to make two tallies? You have to do it right away? No, right? Like it's worse than Twinflame because Twinflame is the exact same thing, you can choose to spend the two mana later, whereas this you must cast it while a tally is on the stack to creature spell that it copies, not a creature.

Speaker 2:
[26:52] That's the thing, yeah, like Twinflame is good because I can spin into Twinflame and it still copies a tally and this doesn't do that.

Speaker 1:
[26:57] But if you spin into this and a demonic tutor, then you can copy the demonic tutor that you spin into.

Speaker 2:
[27:01] And if I spin into this, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1:
[27:03] One demonic tutor should probably be pretty close, but two was like, seals it up.

Speaker 2:
[27:07] Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[27:09] You tell me, you're the tally, is this an tally card?

Speaker 2:
[27:11] I mean, you cut flair of duplication.

Speaker 1:
[27:13] Right.

Speaker 2:
[27:13] And that's what that does, but better.

Speaker 1:
[27:15] Right, because flair can copy your own atally spell?

Speaker 2:
[27:17] It's normally your atally spell, but...

Speaker 1:
[27:19] It can't copy atally though, right?

Speaker 2:
[27:21] No, but if you spin into twin flame and someone else's flair of duplication, you can get two twin flames still.

Speaker 1:
[27:25] Yeah, whereas this, though, if you make nine mana and you cast atally and then hold priority and cast this, make a copy of atally, it's a one-shot roaming throne that you must cast at the same time.

Speaker 2:
[27:33] At the same time, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:34] But roaming thrown is good because you get roaming thrown on turn one and then you cast turn two atally and then that's good.

Speaker 2:
[27:38] I think this is probably hard to do.

Speaker 1:
[27:40] I think so, too.

Speaker 2:
[27:41] It's cool.

Speaker 1:
[27:42] It's cool.

Speaker 2:
[27:43] Yeah, you can get a creature. That is interesting, right?

Speaker 1:
[27:45] It's interesting to think about.

Speaker 2:
[27:46] It has to be one you control. Could you imagine if you could take someone's atally?

Speaker 1:
[27:49] Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah, that would be powerful. And it can copy also an instant or sorcery spell. What's the other mode?

Speaker 2:
[27:54] Also an instant or sorcery spell, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:56] That's bad, reverberates bad.

Speaker 2:
[27:57] We know that reverberates bad already, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:00] And I imagine this is bad, too.

Speaker 2:
[28:01] I would imagine this is bad, too. I'm gonna give this card a 1.5.

Speaker 1:
[28:04] Yeah, I think you're probably right. I put it on because maybe atally.

Speaker 2:
[28:07] Because maybe atally. I love talking about maybe atally cards.

Speaker 1:
[28:10] Maybe atally. I think you're right. 1.5 ish.

Speaker 2:
[28:11] Flashback is our next card.

Speaker 1:
[28:13] I think this is a card.

Speaker 2:
[28:14] Flashback is our next card.

Speaker 1:
[28:15] Nice.

Speaker 2:
[28:16] This is one red for an instant, and it gives an instant accessory card in your graveyard. Flashback and the flashback cost is equal to the mana cost.

Speaker 1:
[28:23] Snapcaster mage is bad. This is a little bit better. I think this card is interesting. I'm considering in Rogsai. I think it works really well with Dark Ritual because for two mana, a red and a black, you can cast Dark Ritual, make three black with that red mana that you have, flashback on your Dark Ritual, cast Dark Ritual with one of the two black that you have, make another three black and you have five black mana. That's an ad nauseum. I love that. That sounds great and I love that.

Speaker 2:
[28:43] And if your ad nauseum gets countered because you cast it some other way, now you can flashback your ad nauseum if you need to.

Speaker 1:
[28:49] If you didn't do what I just said, yes, you can flashback ad nauseum a different way because this doesn't have flashback. You only get the one shot of the flashback.

Speaker 2:
[28:55] But if you snap Caster Mage your flashback, then you can give flashback to your ad nauseum.

Speaker 1:
[29:01] There you go. This also works really well with Jessica's Will because the mana that Jessica's Will makes and you cast it with flashback and Jessica's Will again, that's pretty good. I would consider that like, Ragnarok can win off of two Jessica's Will a lot of the time. That seems very powerful. It works really well with anything in your graveyard. Obviously, it gives you another shot. I've been considering, and I think this is a blast for me, I've been considering cutting maybe Yagmoth's Will for it because Yagmoth's Will is powerful in a vacuum and historically has been so strong. But when was the last time I won with Yagmoth's Will? Very, very rarely.

Speaker 2:
[29:27] But that's because you have Underworld Breach to win with.

Speaker 1:
[29:30] Exactly, like Underworld Breach is so much easier and Yagmoth's Will works against Underworld Breach. And like Yagmoth's Will is like the backup, backup, backup plan. Like when everything else gets countered, I do the Yagmoth's Will to try to go again.

Speaker 2:
[29:40] But because this has synergy with some of the rituals.

Speaker 1:
[29:43] Right, this like, this is a similar thing where like it allows you to go again. It allows you to like get that demonic tutor. I just need the one demonic tutor and then I'll go find Breach and then I'll win instead. Whereas like the Yagmoth's Will like in other formats, Will is so powerful because you have such a mass amount of actual rituals. Whereas like the Turbodex and our formats are split 50-50 between rocks and rituals. Sometimes you make a bunch of mana, but they're not in the graveyard. So Yagmoth's Will isn't good. I don't know if that's right or not. I don't know if Yagmoth's Will is the cut.

Speaker 2:
[30:05] This doesn't like flashback to the game plan. Yagmoth's Will is like kind of flashback on steroids when you get to flashback everything in your graveyard.

Speaker 1:
[30:12] But three mana is a lot. That's just a lot of mana. You have to have all the rituals going and stuff.

Speaker 2:
[30:16] I guess, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[30:17] I could be wrong about Yagmoth's Will. I'm willing to be wrong about cutting Yagmoth's Will. I just personally, I barely ever play the card. I barely ever, but I also barely ever resolve Pneumonic Betrayal, except for when I win the game with it. So like.

Speaker 2:
[30:26] I guess this has a little bit of extra, I think the dark ritual is really nothing to snuff at. I think that that kind of maneuver.

Speaker 1:
[30:32] Yagmoth's Will is never good in the beginning.

Speaker 2:
[30:34] And same thing with Pneumonic Betrayal. Pneumonic Betrayal and Yagmoth's Will like are there for when you demonic consultation for something and you get rid of a bunch of other stuff that you need in order to win the game. Whereas like if you're stuck with this and you get rid of the stuff that you can flash back, it's no longer helpful that you have this. Whereas like Pneumonic Betrayal and Yagmoth's Will can like still put wins together with the other stuff that you have or your opponents have.

Speaker 1:
[30:56] I see what you mean, but flashback also works pretty well with demonic consultation. Demonic consultation and name that as Oracle and go get it.

Speaker 2:
[31:02] Oh, and then that's just like a two card combo without it, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:04] Flashback does a similar thing that Yagmoth's Will does while allowing you to like rebuild again in the late game, but just not as big of a way, but like it gets you the one thing that you need.

Speaker 2:
[31:13] I feel like it works well with all of these cards together.

Speaker 1:
[31:16] It works well in the beginning and the end.

Speaker 2:
[31:17] Yeah, exactly. I think it also like works well with Yagmoth's Will. Like what if your Yagmoth's Will gets stopped? Cause like that's the way you're going with it. Now you can flash that back too, just like having more options.

Speaker 1:
[31:26] I also think-

Speaker 2:
[31:27] Why don't you play this as your 101st card and just play 101 in the deck?

Speaker 1:
[31:30] The cuts are so tight at this point, cause like I feel like the worst cards in the deck, I'm talking about Rock's have a specific right now. The worst cards in the deck, you can't really swap them out for this. Like to me, Time Twister and Wheel of Misfortune are still like the 97th and 98th cards in the deck.

Speaker 2:
[31:42] This is great with like Wheel of Fortune in general. It's Wheel of Misfortune too.

Speaker 1:
[31:46] Yeah, it's good with those cards too, but like I can't cut Time Twister or Wheel of Misfortune for this card. I can't cut gas for not gas. Well, I mean, it isn't necessarily gas, it's just like boost, you know what I mean? So I can't cut gas for that. There's like so few places to cut, I don't really know what. But I also think, not just Rock Scythe, this is probably good in, well, Atali, it might be okay in Atali, I'm not sure about that.

Speaker 2:
[32:05] I'm thinking about it for Atali, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:07] It's interesting.

Speaker 2:
[32:08] There's some hands where it's insane for, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:10] Yeah, and then like Rao, I think like Rao actively really wants this.

Speaker 2:
[32:13] I think so too, yeah, because they already want Past in Flames and just being able to like single target, they already play something. There's another card that for one in a red gives another thing in your graveyard, flashback.

Speaker 1:
[32:23] Yeah, and Rakup has flashback itself, but it only gives Sorcery's flashback, it just gives anything flashback. If they're playing Rakup, they gotta want to play this.

Speaker 2:
[32:30] They gotta want to play this, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:31] Right, it's gotta be in the same ballpark. Rakup being two spells on one spells is sort of relevant, but the flashback costs it a lot.

Speaker 2:
[32:36] It's only four spells on one spell.

Speaker 1:
[32:38] You're right, it's four spells on one spell, whereas this is like two spells on one spells, but I don't know, I think I'm gonna get flashback of four. I think it's gonna be great in turbo decks, and maybe even some non-turbo decks, I could see it seeing play in blue farm, I could see it seeing play in a lot of decks. It has to work with something specific, like when I said it works in the beginning and the end, it only works in the beginning if you have a ritual start, if you have specifically Dark Ritual or Desperate Ritual when Ra'al is out.

Speaker 2:
[32:59] Does Kefka make you discard a card when you trigger Kefka?

Speaker 1:
[33:01] It does.

Speaker 2:
[33:02] This could be good in Kefka too, it helps you set shit up.

Speaker 1:
[33:05] I think I gave the blue thing a four, I think I also, when we talked about it, that card actually seemed a lot better than I initially thought.

Speaker 2:
[33:11] I think I underrated the blue card, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[33:13] I think I wanna give this one the same, because I initially thought Flashback was quite high, and the more I think about it, the more I think Flashback might be only mediocre, like Snapcaster Mage doesn't see any play. Snapcaster Mage is two mana rather than one, which is huge, and blue cost rather than red, which is huge, because there's tons of red rituals, which makes it easy to cast Flashback on another ritual, like it really is helpful in that way.

Speaker 2:
[33:33] You could do the R'Koop thing in R'Agsai right now too, you can still make four mana off of your one dark ritual.

Speaker 1:
[33:41] Right, wait.

Speaker 2:
[33:42] Cause R'Koop is just one more mana. R'Koop, does R'Koop really only hit Sorceries?

Speaker 1:
[33:46] R'Koop only hits Sorceries, I'm pretty sure, but R'Koop costs one more mana, so Dark Ritual plus R'Koop is in five mana.

Speaker 2:
[33:51] Well no, but it's still four mana.

Speaker 1:
[33:52] That's not good.

Speaker 2:
[33:53] It's better than not having four mana. It's better than having three.

Speaker 1:
[33:56] It's got to be three or five. Beseech the Mirror is okay, but it's got to be three or five.

Speaker 2:
[33:59] It's only Sorcery, so you can't even do that. So my genius plan doesn't even work. My plan that was definitely playable and would work.

Speaker 1:
[34:05] And your plan also, you have to cast Dark Ritual for one mana and then R'Koop for... Oh, I guess you can use one of the Dark Ritual mana that you make and go down to two.

Speaker 2:
[34:11] That's what I'm saying, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:12] And then you cast Dark Ritual. But yeah, you only need a four, that's not good.

Speaker 2:
[34:15] Yeah, you still net a mana. Itali needs every way to make one extra mana, and it doesn't even work because R'Koop can't target that Ritual. Alright, so what are you giving Flashback?

Speaker 1:
[34:22] I think I said four, I think I want to lock in 3.9.

Speaker 2:
[34:24] 3.9, alright, I think I'm gonna give Flashback a 3.2. Because I think it definitely will see play in Raal. I think it might not quite make the cut in R'Agsai. I could see it not making the cut, but I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[34:36] I'm gonna try it for sure.

Speaker 2:
[34:36] I think you should, because I think that that Dark Ritual thing is really strong. And two cards to make an ad nauseum together is really strong.

Speaker 1:
[34:43] But then we're also talking about, that's like a three card specific right there. It has to be better with things that are not just Dark Ritual and like casting two demonic tutors for five mana, that's not really a great rate. Like, so I don't know. I think I'm standing with 3.9. I feel like with this one and the blue one, I could be wrong about both of them in the opposite direction. The blue one might be way better, this one might be way worse.

Speaker 2:
[35:02] I mean, you can set yourself up for wins over the course of turns too, so that you don't look as scary. So like you can vampiric tutor and get something. The next end step before your turn, you flash back your vampiric tutor and then do that again.

Speaker 1:
[35:13] Is the vampiric tutor card still on top of your library?

Speaker 2:
[35:15] You would have vamp tutored and then drew the card for turn. That's what I was trying to imply.

Speaker 1:
[35:18] Is this a sorcery or an instant?

Speaker 2:
[35:19] It's an instant.

Speaker 1:
[35:20] It's an instant, that's good.

Speaker 2:
[35:21] That is really nice, yeah. Even counter spells in graveyards is something that is plausible. They have to spend the mana on them, so it's kind of like Snapcaster mage, but like a well-timed mental misstep or Flusterstorm or something like that, that's only one mana might be something.

Speaker 1:
[35:34] Yeah, definitely it could be something. Yeah, it's important to note that if you flash back a Fierce Guardian ship, you have to spend three mana on that flash back Fierce Guardian ship.

Speaker 2:
[35:41] Forced Will is five mana. Yeah, you don't have an alternate cost. It tells you the cost.

Speaker 1:
[35:45] I do think this card is very good. 3.9 is the rating that I'm going to stick with.

Speaker 2:
[35:49] Did you put Micah, Reader of Ruins on here or did I?

Speaker 1:
[35:51] What does that card do?

Speaker 2:
[35:52] It's three in a red for a legendary human artificer that's a 4-4 with ward pay three life. Now whenever you cast an incident or sorcery spell, you can sacrifice an artifact. And if you do, you can copy that spell and choose new targets for the copy.

Speaker 1:
[36:04] Did I put that on here?

Speaker 2:
[36:04] I think I put it on here because treasures exist. And if you sacrifice a treasure, when you cast your demonic tutor, that's just like a three mana, two demonic tutors. That's way better than five mana, two demonic tutors we were just talking about.

Speaker 1:
[36:15] No, no, no, because you have to cast this spell also.

Speaker 2:
[36:17] Oh yeah, but that's just gravy.

Speaker 1:
[36:19] So it's a seven mana, two?

Speaker 2:
[36:21] It's seven mana for two tutors, actually.

Speaker 1:
[36:23] That's worse than what I said earlier.

Speaker 2:
[36:24] But way more upside because then I can do this. Yeah, the next thing that I get, my ad nauseam can get copied. I can get two ad nauseams.

Speaker 1:
[36:31] I don't love it.

Speaker 2:
[36:32] I can get two counter spells if I sacrifice my mana rock that's already tapped.

Speaker 1:
[36:36] I don't think so.

Speaker 2:
[36:37] Okay, it's a two, it's a one.

Speaker 1:
[36:39] A one, I'm gonna give this one a one. It's a four mana spell?

Speaker 2:
[36:42] It's a four mana spell.

Speaker 1:
[36:42] And then if you cast a spell, if what was it, if mana?

Speaker 2:
[36:45] No, if you cast an instant or sorcery.

Speaker 1:
[36:46] If a treasure was used to cast that spell?

Speaker 2:
[36:48] No, if you sacrifice an artifact along with it.

Speaker 1:
[36:51] While you cast it?

Speaker 2:
[36:51] Yeah, it's a trigger. Sacrifice an artifact if you do copy that spell.

Speaker 1:
[36:55] So you can sac a mana vault and then copy stuff.

Speaker 2:
[36:56] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It can be like treasures are like a thing that you could have in spades.

Speaker 1:
[37:00] It's a four mana spell.

Speaker 2:
[37:01] Four mana spell, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:02] 1.5.

Speaker 2:
[37:03] 1.5 Aziza, we're in two color stuff now. This is the mage tower captain. This is a red and a white for a legendary jinn sorcerer that says when you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you can tap three untapped creatures you control. And if you do, you copy that spell and choose new targets. I'm getting sick of talking about the same ability all the time.

Speaker 1:
[37:21] Yeah, we healed this deck for the gameplay episode. I'm confident it's the worst of the bunch.

Speaker 2:
[37:26] Nice.

Speaker 1:
[37:26] Yeah, when I built it, I said, oh, maybe if you can copy some Jessica's Wills, and if you copy a gamble and you go find Sivine's Reclamation and Underworld Breach, that's a win.

Speaker 2:
[37:34] That's really good.

Speaker 1:
[37:35] I think it's bad though, because the version that I built, not enough ways to get creatures into play, I think. So like copying stuff was too difficult. And you have such a pull between wanting to put stuff that you want to copy and wanting to put creatures in the deck. So you kind of have to hit Charismatic Vampire or whatever. You know what I mean? You have to hit something that specific for it to kind of go crazy.

Speaker 2:
[37:52] And Strong of Totem Taz isn't really that good even.

Speaker 1:
[37:55] I put in the Alarm one, the Instant Speed, 1 and an X make X warriors.

Speaker 2:
[37:58] Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:59] Instant Speed, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[38:00] That's something.

Speaker 1:
[38:01] That's something.

Speaker 2:
[38:02] If you get the chance to copy it, that's twice as many little dudes.

Speaker 1:
[38:05] This card has Small, one of the things.

Speaker 2:
[38:07] It has it.

Speaker 1:
[38:08] And it technically does have combo potential cause it sort of makes Gamble into a weird one card intuition. It makes it into a win if you have three creatures that are untapped and also you have a ton of mana and also you have like a bunch of cards in your graveyard. So like not really at all what I said, but maybe you could set it up.

Speaker 2:
[38:25] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[38:25] Yeah. So it's small and almost combo potential. And that's it.

Speaker 2:
[38:29] Not good.

Speaker 1:
[38:29] I don't think.

Speaker 2:
[38:30] Probably not good.

Speaker 1:
[38:30] It's probably gonna be a full Castrum H on turn two in our game, but not good.

Speaker 2:
[38:34] I don't think.

Speaker 1:
[38:34] I'm gonna give it like a two. I could have built the deck all wrong. There could be a complete better way to build it with like, playing a bunch of like, sound the alarm effects. I only played like one Cranko's Command, but like, that feels bad. You're playing a bunch of like, cards that like, make a couple of tokens. That doesn't sound good, you know?

Speaker 2:
[38:46] Maybe there's other ways where if you tap other creatures, you can like, deal damage, and then like, you keep tapping and untapping.

Speaker 1:
[38:53] There's the one thermal card that says you can tap to deal damage, and then whenever you cast it into your sorcery, un-tap it. So if you like, tap it to do the copy ability to cast it into your sorcery, then you un-tap it, and then you just need two more creatures to copy another spell.

Speaker 2:
[39:03] There's gotta be something where like, maybe this works inside of Ululek or something.

Speaker 1:
[39:08] I don't know If Paradox Engine was allowed, we're getting somewhere.

Speaker 2:
[39:11] We're getting somewhere. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[39:12] If you could play Just Guys Ascendancy in this deck, then maybe that's something.

Speaker 2:
[39:15] That might be something, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[39:16] If you could play Valley Floodcaller in this deck, then maybe you're something.

Speaker 2:
[39:18] But they fixed it by not making it three colors.

Speaker 1:
[39:20] Maybe in the 99, this is something in one of the, in like a weird Just Guys Ascendancy deck. I don't think so though.

Speaker 2:
[39:25] Yeah, maybe not.

Speaker 1:
[39:26] Maybe like I'll give this a one.

Speaker 2:
[39:27] Okay, I'll give it a one, two. Like a 1.2.

Speaker 1:
[39:30] 12, pretty good.

Speaker 2:
[39:31] Yeah, 12. We got the best card in the set, yeah. Applied geometry is two, a green and a blue for a sorcery that creates a token that's a copy of target non-Aura permanent U-Control. Ah, fuck! Except it's a zero, zero fractal creature in addition to its other types. But you get to put six plus one plus one counters on it.

Speaker 1:
[39:50] What did you think it did?

Speaker 2:
[39:51] I thought it could just copy anyone's Rhystic Study, but it has to copy your own.

Speaker 1:
[39:55] You can copy your own guy's cradle and then your guy's cradle dies, but then this is a guy's cradle that's a creature.

Speaker 2:
[40:00] That's a 6-6, and how funny would it have been to have copied someone else's Necropotence and then attack them with the 6-6 Necropotence?

Speaker 1:
[40:08] That's good, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[40:09] Really funny, right? Too bad you can't do that, because there's no decks that play green and black and blue all in them.

Speaker 1:
[40:16] Clever Impersonator is only playable because it copies any non-land permanent, including your opponent's things, and it's a little bit easier to cast than this, being blue rather than blue-green. Although I'm not sure that that's true. Blue-blue might be the same as blue-green.

Speaker 2:
[40:28] I think this card sucks because of the U-Control thing. I think Flash Photography is great because it could have Flash if you copy something you control, but you don't have to copy something that you control.

Speaker 1:
[40:37] You can also copy their thing.

Speaker 2:
[40:38] Yeah, I think this is just like worse than Altered Ego in every capacity, too, because at least Kinnin can spin into Altered Ego.

Speaker 1:
[40:44] This isn't even a creature on the stack.

Speaker 2:
[40:46] No, it's not a creature on the stack, so it's way easier to counter, too.

Speaker 1:
[40:49] I'll give it a one.

Speaker 2:
[40:49] I'll give it a one because it is still a clone, but it's a bad clone. Now let's move into the Golgari cards. And Dina's Guidance is the first one. This is one, a green and a black. For an instant, this is search your library for a creature card, reveal it, and then you can put it into your hand or your graveyard.

Speaker 1:
[41:05] Or your graveyard, that's the important part. This is Eladamri's Call, or Intune, which is powerful. Tutors are always strong. Three-man tutors are always questionable. Right now, the only one that I think that it's actually good in the format is Praetor's Grasp. I won twice at Locals the other day with Praetor's Grasp, where I was just like using Breach with Praetor's Grasp to take all the win conditions from the other Rockside players.

Speaker 2:
[41:23] That's so funny. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[41:24] This doesn't do that. This does not take win conditions if you have exiled all of your win conditions. This only gets a creature, but it's instant speed. Instant speed is huge, but Oedonnor's Call doesn't see a ton of play. Neither does Entomb, but they're on the same card, so that makes it a little bit better. This is more expensive than both of those. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[41:38] This is definitely going in those Timnahallana decks that pop up every once in a while. Yeah, because it's great with Protean Hulk. Yeah, there's now 13 Protean Hulks that you have. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:47] I think that maybe we say Tiam every time, Tiam is barely even a deck at this point. Maybe Tiam wants this. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[41:53] Maybe Tiam does, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:54] Realistically, you know what might also be good? Timnathrasios decks that want to play the Squirrel with the Zero Two.

Speaker 2:
[42:01] No kidding, yeah. The Chatterfang.

Speaker 1:
[42:04] Nope.

Speaker 2:
[42:04] What are you talking about then?

Speaker 1:
[42:05] The Zero Two that makes Infinite Mana with the Squirrel that exiles and makes a food. Something with an H, maybe? Like I was thinking of a Brewmaster?

Speaker 2:
[42:12] Yeah, Hazel's Brewmaster. Hazel's Brewmaster. I was thinking about like a War and Soul Trader and Chatterfang thing.

Speaker 1:
[42:17] I don't, maybe, but no, that's not what I was thinking about. Hazel's Brewmaster and something Druid.

Speaker 2:
[42:21] Yeah, the Hermit Druid.

Speaker 1:
[42:22] Nope, Devoted Druid. Devoted Druid. This can either entomb further Devoted Druid or find the Hazel's Brewmaster if you have one or the other. So like maybe that's good, right?

Speaker 2:
[42:31] That's true. Yeah, I mean, it is instant speed too, like Eladamri's Call. So it does have like, I don't know, it's just weirdly flexible. I kind of like it.

Speaker 1:
[42:38] Yeah, and we're like, I don't think this will ever come up with like, you can instant speed search for a subtlety and then subtlety is someone's thing. Or you can, you know what I mean? Like some flexible situations there.

Speaker 2:
[42:46] Do the same thing with an Endurance probably too.

Speaker 1:
[42:48] Yeah, exactly. I think this one is almost good. Three mana is a lot. So the bar is pretty high. Like Grim Tutor is barely playable and Grim Tutor can get anything. Grim Tutor is a sorcery and can't entomb the thing. So there's obviously differences.

Speaker 2:
[42:59] There's no life loss down side, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:01] But yeah, I think this one's probably close. I'm gonna give this one like a three.

Speaker 2:
[43:04] I think I was gonna give it a three too.

Speaker 1:
[43:06] I think this could go in a couple of decks and I think it'd be a fine slot in those decks. So yeah, three for me.

Speaker 2:
[43:10] Witherbloom, the Balancer, is six and a black and a green for a five five legendary elder dragon. It has affinity for creatures and flying and death touch and instance and sorcery spells you cast also have affinity for creatures.

Speaker 1:
[43:24] Right. So even though it has a huge mana cost, more often than not, this is probably going to be two or three mana.

Speaker 2:
[43:29] I think realistically, you're getting this into play on turn three a lot of the time, maybe turn two if you have like a pretty nutty draw that like requires Dryad Arbor and Priest of Titania out on turn one. And then you also get to play like a couple of other elves and then get to slam this guy down or something.

Speaker 1:
[43:44] There's also combos with a couple of things with buyback.

Speaker 2:
[43:47] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:48] What are they? They make tokens. Doesn't really matter.

Speaker 2:
[43:49] Oh, I can't believe I don't remember the names of them right now. But there's an I know, right? There's an instant speed green spell, like one and a green. You can make a saproline, but for three extra mana, you can buy it back.

Speaker 1:
[44:02] And because it says affinity, what this lets you do is affinity will make the buyback cost also less.

Speaker 2:
[44:07] So just for a green mana now, make a 1-1, tap the 1-1, make a 1-1, tap the 1-1.

Speaker 1:
[44:11] No, not affinity doesn't work. That's not convoke.

Speaker 2:
[44:12] But the thing does. The thing has convoke.

Speaker 1:
[44:15] The buyback spell has convoke?

Speaker 2:
[44:16] The buyback spell has convoke. That's why it goes infinite. There's another one that makes a rat, but doesn't have convoke. It just has buyback. But it's just like one, each one black mana that you have can make you another thing, which can help make all of your other spells way better. But what makes this go infinite is that it also has convoke so that you can make infinite tapped 1-1s and make it so that all of your instance and sorceries only cost the pips.

Speaker 1:
[44:38] All right, so yeah, you have a one card combo with your commander that only makes infinite tapped 1-1s. That's not enough. You still need something else.

Speaker 2:
[44:45] You still need something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[44:46] I've heard a lot of chatter about this card. I don't really see it. I don't think that it's something, but I've heard a lot of people be really interested in it. Given your instance and sorceries affinity for creatures, that's a cool line of text, making stuff cheaper. I could see that being a powerful bracket four thing. For CDH, I'm not really exactly seeing it, but I could be wrong about all of this shit, obviously, but it's one of the decks that we're playing for the channel. There's so many options and it's close. It's definitely close.

Speaker 2:
[45:06] I think it is really close. Yeah. And you already get to play a lot of really good cards that you want to be playing in this color combination, which isn't really saying much because it's not really a good color combination on its own. But there's some powerful shit. Like there's that card that's five and two black that says discard your hand two to three cards. Wouldn't that be way better if it only calls black black two to three perfect cards?

Speaker 1:
[45:26] Yeah, I could definitely see that.

Speaker 2:
[45:27] Especially if you put your whole hand into play because it's just all one ones that you were trying to spit out.

Speaker 1:
[45:32] I think this is going to end up being a little bit similar to Chatterfang, which is a black green deck that does token stuff and does similar things. And I actually think Chatterfang is like weirdly pretty good. Chatterfang has a lot of really good combos. It's really powerful with Warren Soul Trader. It does a lot of really neat things.

Speaker 2:
[45:47] Now all that stuff works really well in this deck too.

Speaker 1:
[45:49] It sure does. Yeah, it sure does. But Chatterfang is like it's only three mana always. It's always three mana.

Speaker 2:
[45:53] That's a thing.

Speaker 1:
[45:54] You have to work so hard for it to be two or three mana.

Speaker 2:
[45:56] I have to play things that are bad in the meta because like if we run into Orcish Bowmaster somewhere, oh man, thankfully we won't. Oh, maybe we will. There's one other black deck in this pod, so maybe we will.

Speaker 1:
[46:05] I'm playing it in the other deck, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[46:06] All right, well, what are we giving this guy then?

Speaker 1:
[46:08] I don't love it. I'll be Frank with you.

Speaker 2:
[46:09] I think Franklin and I agree.

Speaker 1:
[46:11] Two? Two.

Speaker 2:
[46:12] I'm going to give it a two because I don't like its color combination and I don't like that its one card combo doesn't win the game on its own and that it needs something else.

Speaker 1:
[46:20] You're a commander being a two card combo, like you're a commander in two other things. That's not anything because every deck is that because you can play Thoracle Concentration.

Speaker 2:
[46:27] It's not really taking great cards and making them even better. We're taking cards like Blood Pet and allowing Blood Pet to be in our combos, and I'm not really interested in playing Blood Pet a ton in TEDH at least.

Speaker 1:
[46:39] I feel like we say this a lot, that you should be looking for CDH decks that make good cards better, not decks that make bad cards playable.

Speaker 2:
[46:46] Oh, great. Now, Elvish Mystic, I can play again in the format.

Speaker 1:
[46:49] Yeah, that's not good. A good card's stronger. Like the Silver Quill, if we're talking about that one.

Speaker 2:
[46:54] That one is next, actually, yes.

Speaker 1:
[46:56] I think that one has, it does something like that.

Speaker 2:
[46:57] Yeah, Silver Quill, the Disputant, is to a white and a black for a legendary elder dragon with flying and vigilance, and each incident sorcerer you cast has casualty one. So you can sacrifice a creature with power one or greater and then copy that spell.

Speaker 1:
[47:12] I think this one is kind of interesting. Being able to, four mana is like, it's not cheap, but it's like cheaper than the other ones.

Speaker 2:
[47:17] So it's very reasonable.

Speaker 1:
[47:18] It's reasonable-ish. Four mana is reasonable-ish. And like, yes, you do have to play some, I don't want to say bad cards, but they're kind of bad cards. I put in a couple of doom traveler type of things. A one mana creature, that when you sacrifice it, you make another creature.

Speaker 2:
[47:30] There's a lot of doom travelers that we have now, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] Yeah, we have a ton. I ended up cutting like two or three from the final list, because I'm like, this is too many doom travelers. We don't know.

Speaker 2:
[47:37] Yeah, are you on like the ones that sacrifice to make treasures too?

Speaker 1:
[47:40] Those are specifically, I think, some of the best ones, realistically.

Speaker 2:
[47:43] That makes sense, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:44] Yeah, Grief Rebooter and there's another one. There's a zombie that does something similar.

Speaker 2:
[47:47] They could also give something minus one, if you wanted to, but that's never better than making a treasure in this circumstance.

Speaker 1:
[47:52] I think so, like, say you have a Grief Rebooter in play and you have your 4-mana commander and you cast Dark Ritual and you sacrifice the Grief Rebooter and you make a treasure, and then you get to copy the Dark Ritual. Boom, you have 6 black mana and a treasure. That's 7 mana for appearing to the Abyss. That's kind of neat, right?

Speaker 2:
[48:04] If you have another creature, you could copy your appearance to the Abyss.

Speaker 1:
[48:06] Say you sack the Doom Traveler instead with the Dark Ritual and you make 6 black mana and then you still have a creature. Then if you have like another thing in your hand, like having Dark Ritual and Demonic Two in your hand, that's pretty good already, but... That wins the game immediately but then you can copy and sack the first one to copy the Dark Ritual, make 6 black, and then cast Demonic Two to sack the second thing, having 4 black left over, and then go search the library for two things. There's a couple of different like chain type things that you can do with this. You can make a ton of mana out of your rituals, stuff like, oh fuck, what's the name of the ritual that makes a black mana for each song of the damned? Makes a black mana for each creature in your graveyard?

Speaker 2:
[48:38] That's funny, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[48:39] So say like even if you just sacrifice the one creature for a song in the damned, that's a Rite of Flame because you sacrifice the creature, there's one creature in your graveyard, and then you get to copy song of the damned to make a black mana, make another copy, make a black mana.

Speaker 2:
[48:49] That's the worst. That's the worst case scenario is that it's Rite of Flame.

Speaker 1:
[48:53] Say you have a couple of creatures in the graveyard because you're playing a couple more than you otherwise would because there's a bunch of one mana creatures and shit. You sack them and you make three mana, and then you make another three mana, and then all of a sudden you make six mana with your song of the damned.

Speaker 2:
[49:02] That's really good, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:04] So there's a couple of situations where like it makes rituals and tutors way better at the cost of needing to play one mana creatures that are kind of bad-ish.

Speaker 2:
[49:13] But are way easy to get and just like have.

Speaker 1:
[49:15] And play, yeah. So I think this is something, it's a pretty good hoarding brood lord deck. It's a pretty good reanimator type strategy.

Speaker 2:
[49:21] It seems like a great bow master deck when like you sacrifice the token and then like keeps making new tokens. Are you an Ophiomancer, perchance?

Speaker 1:
[49:27] No, I'm not. I thought that was too much. Three mana was too much. I wanted all the things that work with it to be like realistically one mana.

Speaker 2:
[49:33] Good call, good call. I mean, it's enough of an engine where like, I think if you had the ability to cast a spell every turn, it would be better. But maybe bow master is just better for the fact that like when you want it to be big, it can be big. When you don't need it, you can like just punch it.

Speaker 1:
[49:45] Yeah. And the combo that I went with was Sephiroth, Warren Soul Trader and the crime one mana creature. What's the crime one mana creature that whenever you Forsaken Miner? Forsaken Miner. Whenever you commit a crime, you can cast it from your Graver for another black mana.

Speaker 2:
[49:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:57] That's a three card combo. That's three cards. Way too much. And then, you know what I mean? But you don't need your commander for it, but all of them work kind of well with the strategy. Sephiroth can sack a doom traveler. You draw a card and the doom traveler, you still have the token. Warren Soul Trader can sacrifice a doom traveler and make two mana out of it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[50:12] I think it's so easy to double your tutors that you really only need to find one tutor and then one of these other three pieces. And then your one tutor finds you the other things you need.

Speaker 1:
[50:22] Forsaken Miner can be in the graveyard. You can entomb for that one. It doesn't have to be in play. I think all of the cards kind of individually work pretty well with the strategy already. So even though it is three cards, your main thing is like reanimating a hoarding brood lord and get a pirou into the abyss off the stack. And then once you draw half your deck, assembling the three card combo is kind of like whatever.

Speaker 2:
[50:40] You're in a great spot.

Speaker 1:
[50:41] I'm also playing the White World's Gorgor Dragon.

Speaker 2:
[50:44] Abdeladrian.

Speaker 1:
[50:44] Abdeladrian, because even though it doesn't actually go, you don't win the game off of that, you can create infinite mana. You have a rocks, right? With a bowmaster in play, you can ping the table out.

Speaker 2:
[50:53] Just win the game right there.

Speaker 1:
[50:54] There's a couple of situations where it's still reasonable enough, and I think it might be good to have an option of like, peer to my whole, peer my whole deck, but how do I win the game? Oh, entomb, animate that. That gives me infinite mana, and then I can cast all the shit that I want to, with the pirou.

Speaker 2:
[51:06] Yeah, this does seem really strong, I think.

Speaker 1:
[51:08] It seems strong, but again, you have to resolve your four mana commander, and you also have one of these specific one mana creatures, and you also have to have something to do, you know what I mean? It's kind of a lot, but...

Speaker 2:
[51:17] This kind of feels like a magnet in a weird way, where you do have to play some bad cards, but you're turning those bad cards to make these good cards that you have absolutely insane.

Speaker 1:
[51:25] Right, yeah, you're not playing something that makes a whole bunch of one-ones, and then like...

Speaker 2:
[51:29] You don't have to play empty the warrens or something like that to make a ton of one-ones, and then use them to copy spells.

Speaker 1:
[51:35] Yeah, and I like that it's four mana on its own, you don't have to work to get it out, but you don't have to do extra steps by getting a specific amount of a whole bunch of creatures out, you can just cast it. The Vigilance probably won't matter, but Vigilance is quietly a really good mechanic when you can pressure the Adenos player and still keep up a block of yourself.

Speaker 2:
[51:51] It's not nothing, it's funny how it's basically almost the same thing as Aziza, but because of the color combination, it's just infinitely better, because what you can copy is so much stronger.

Speaker 1:
[52:01] And the way that you only need one creature in play to get a copy off, right? The casualty, sacrifice, the thing, you don't need three creatures and then something to do.

Speaker 2:
[52:09] And then something else.

Speaker 1:
[52:10] Just one creature to do it, right?

Speaker 2:
[52:11] I kind of like this. Yeah, I'm excited to see how this does in the... We haven't recorded the games yet, even though the games are coming out two days from now.

Speaker 1:
[52:18] Right, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[52:18] For when this episode comes out. So I'm really excited to see how this does in that pod. I think it's going to be great.

Speaker 1:
[52:23] Hopefully it'll do it right. In the test stands, I felt like it is possible to get Pure onto the abyss on the stack on turn two or three. Turn two is probably lucky. Turn three might be a little bit more expected, but we'll see if there's the right interaction. It does seem like easy to interact with, but at the same time, you're copying demonitutors, so they can't really... If you're still casualtying stuff, their counter spells are no good. If they counter the one demonitutor, you can Pure onto the abyss and casualty it, and then you have two Pure onto the abyss.

Speaker 2:
[52:46] Now, if they stop the one, you get the other one at least, and if they don't, it's 75% of each.

Speaker 1:
[52:50] With Bowmaster out, that's not good. You know what I mean? You can Bowmaster and Pure onto the somebody else.

Speaker 2:
[52:54] Oh, why give them all the cards? Oh, thank you. Born upon the wind, here we go.

Speaker 1:
[52:59] There's a lot of overlapping synergies, I think so. I think that that seems pretty neat, but we also don't have a black-white CDH Commander. I know there's like Loto and there's like the other one, the one that combos with like lower the rings cards, but none of them really seem like great, great to me, and maybe this is one.

Speaker 2:
[53:13] Maybe this is one, yeah. 3.3, maybe?

Speaker 1:
[53:15] I built it and I like it, so I'm gonna give it a 3.4. It's probably mediocre, but has the potential to do some nutty things, and I'm sure I missed some stuff too.

Speaker 2:
[53:21] I'm also kind of excited to see Sinar Unfinished Genius.

Speaker 1:
[53:24] Yeah, this one's small.

Speaker 2:
[53:25] This one's small, which I like. It's just one in a blue for a little guy who enters prepared.

Speaker 1:
[53:29] Is that what it is? It's a blue and a red?

Speaker 2:
[53:30] Blue and a red.

Speaker 1:
[53:31] Blue and a red. Blue and a red.

Speaker 2:
[53:32] Blue and a red. What did I say?

Speaker 1:
[53:34] A one in a blue.

Speaker 2:
[53:35] Oh, a one red and a blue.

Speaker 1:
[53:36] One red and a blue.

Speaker 2:
[53:37] Yeah, for a little guy, he's an 04, he enters prepared, and you can tap him to make a treasure token if you've cast an incident or sorcery this turn. And you can also cast wild idea with him, which for three, a blue and a red.

Speaker 1:
[53:48] Blue and a red.

Speaker 2:
[53:49] Blue and a red.

Speaker 1:
[53:49] Blue and a red.

Speaker 2:
[53:50] You can search your library for an incident or sorcery to reveal it and put it into your hand, then shuffle.

Speaker 1:
[53:54] Couple of powerful things this guy does. He's small.

Speaker 2:
[53:56] He's very small.

Speaker 1:
[53:57] He makes mana. And there's some combo potential.

Speaker 2:
[54:00] Yeah, he works with Isochron Scepter and Dramatic Reversal, which is something you have not heard of saying quite a while on the channel. But it is kind of nice that even if you just like interact with someone, you can then make a treasure and then use that treasure to continue your interaction if you want, or just like use this ramp. You can bank that mana, which I also kind of like. I like that if you do make any kind of like storm thing workout, you can use his tutor to just like go get your wind condition. So if you do make infinite mana of any kind, like even with him, you can just use his tutor to go find brain freeze or grape shot or whatever you want. I kind of like him with Displacer Kitten for that reason too. I built this deck for the channel and I'm trying out the Blazing Fire Singer-Displacer Kitten combo.

Speaker 1:
[54:39] That works, right? Make infinite mana and then tutor for grape shot. And you have infinite storm because that's how it works.

Speaker 2:
[54:43] Exactly. Yeah, I'm casting Seething's Song so that that way I can use Sinard to make a treasure so that that way.

Speaker 1:
[54:48] Like the blue for his ability.

Speaker 2:
[54:49] Yeah, you can use that for a blue for the wild idea that you want to cast and go get a grape shot. For your grape shot, it's just nice and easy.

Speaker 1:
[54:56] Right, and like obviously we said small, but like it's in Fierce Guardianship, deflect and swap colors, so small is particularly relevant. Mox Amber works great in a deck like this because you want a bunch of mana. Obviously, it's going to compare to other similar things in the color combination, so it's going to be similar to Rao, and is it better than Rao? I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[55:10] Probably not.

Speaker 1:
[55:10] Probably not. But I do think it's close and I do think it's playable.

Speaker 2:
[55:13] It gets to play a deck that doesn't need to rely on its commander so much if you want to go in that direction, because Veevee is so much all in on trying to get curiosity, otherwise the deck doesn't do anything. Rao needs Rao in play so that you can storm all of these two mana draw cards off so that they're actually one mana draw card spells instead. Whereas Sennaar, I feel like you can build the deck to just be more like a generically good blue-red deck.

Speaker 1:
[55:34] Blue and red?

Speaker 2:
[55:35] Play a little bit more good stuff. I have a little bit more room to play mirror-made kind of effects where you can do that in Veevee, but it's a little bit less good in that strategy. So this gives you a little bit more flexibility to grind into the late game instead of being only turbo. If that's a direction that you want to go.

Speaker 1:
[55:49] This one certainly can't win on turn two nearly as easily as Ralken. Ralken pretty consistently put turn two wins on the stack.

Speaker 2:
[55:55] For sure.

Speaker 1:
[55:55] Whereas this one, like you said, I agree, this one's kind of like you're winning on probably turn four or five or something. You're slow, you have interaction in the early game. Every time you fear scardianship, okay, I'll tap and make a treasure. Deflecting Swat, okay, I'll tap and make another treasure. And then over the time you make enough mana to like search your library for Jessica's Will and then go from there or Past and Flames, whatever you need at the top.

Speaker 2:
[56:12] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[56:13] That flexibility is huge.

Speaker 2:
[56:14] And I see you have other ways to untap them in your turn two. I think that's also really nice. I don't know exactly how many good ways there are to do that in general, but.

Speaker 1:
[56:21] Right, yeah, probably not a ton.

Speaker 2:
[56:23] Probably not a ton, especially ones that don't cost mana.

Speaker 1:
[56:26] But he's close and he's good and I like him. I will give him, because of the colors, blue red is better than black white. It's probably better than silver quill, so I'll give it like a 3.5.

Speaker 2:
[56:34] Interestingly, I think silver quill might actually be more powerful. I think what it might generically do is stronger.

Speaker 1:
[56:40] That might be true, but worse colors and bigger.

Speaker 2:
[56:42] Worse colors and bigger and just lets more powerful things happen though, too, just generically.

Speaker 1:
[56:47] Silver quill can't really do anything if anyone else tries to win the game. I'm playing Dothie Voidwalker, an opposition agent, and technically Bowmaster as ways to maybe do something against it. You know what I mean? I play a Sword of the Plowshares, but there's really not a ton of stack interaction in that deck.

Speaker 2:
[56:59] That's fair. Well, I'll give a scenario of 3.41, then.

Speaker 1:
[57:02] There you go, okay.

Speaker 2:
[57:03] And then our last card, then, is Petrified Hamlet, which is when you go see a play and everyone's turned to stone. This is a land that, when it enters, you choose a land card name.

Speaker 1:
[57:14] This card sucks, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[57:15] Yeah, I know. Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities. Well, what the fuck is the point of this card deck?

Speaker 1:
[57:23] It doesn't shut off Gaia's Cradle at all. I don't think that it does.

Speaker 2:
[57:25] And you give Gaia's Cradle an ability. Lands with the chosen name have tap to add colorless. So it's weirdly an improved Gaia's Cradle now.

Speaker 1:
[57:32] Now it can help cast Eldrazi Confluence or something.

Speaker 2:
[57:35] But don't worry, yeah, this thing also taps for colorless mana.

Speaker 1:
[57:39] I heard a couple of people ask about this card because they thought it shuts off Gaia's Cradle and it does not. I don't think this card does anything good. It shuts off Emergence Zone.

Speaker 2:
[57:45] It shuts off Shifting Woodlands. I think there's some metas where if you're playing against certain decks that are very activated abilities on my lands heavy, if you're in against Wandering Minstrel.

Speaker 1:
[57:56] But even still, if you can play this card, it's because you are playing ways to search for lands.

Speaker 2:
[58:00] That's the thing, it can only be played in a crop rotation deck.

Speaker 1:
[58:04] But then it shuts off your own Shifting Woodlands too, right?

Speaker 2:
[58:07] That's the thing, Talon Gates of Madara. So I guess if you can shut off or borrow Breezecaller Line, if you want your own Geist Cradle to stay around.

Speaker 1:
[58:15] But not even that, because it shuts off their activated abilities. And Talon Gates, the relevant thing is that it's an entrance trigger. Wait, activated from hands too? How does that work?

Speaker 2:
[58:23] Because it doesn't...

Speaker 1:
[58:25] In play, it only cares about, right?

Speaker 2:
[58:27] Stacks pieces don't give a shit about what's in your hands.

Speaker 1:
[58:29] So you can still activate Talon Gates from your hands and put it into play. You can't do the filter mana part of it. Oh, boo hoo! I think you can still do the rest of it.

Speaker 2:
[58:37] But you can still use it to make mana and then put that into Ouroboros Breezecaller.

Speaker 1:
[58:41] DUD?

Speaker 2:
[58:42] DUD, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:42] I rank this one one dud.

Speaker 2:
[58:44] I rank this one dud big time. Yeah. Great.

Speaker 1:
[58:48] Is that how we're ending the podcast?

Speaker 2:
[58:49] That's how we're ending the podcast. On a dud.

Speaker 1:
[58:53] Weirdly, I think the blue mana one reminded me of its name again.

Speaker 2:
[58:55] The exhibition Tidecaller.

Speaker 1:
[58:59] I think exhibition Tidecaller might be the card of the set with flashback coming in a quick second, but I could be very wrong. I'm still expecting that the Tidecaller. I'm thinking that I read that card wrong or something. But if that truly does combo with any ritual and Underworld Breach, I think that's good.

Speaker 2:
[59:12] Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, target player mills three cards.

Speaker 1:
[59:16] Right. And then you cast Dark Ritual and you mill yourself three.

Speaker 2:
[59:19] And now this way with Underworld Breach and play three mana.

Speaker 1:
[59:22] Again, with the three mana, you go up mana and you use the cards that you just milled to recast Dark Ritual. You just are recasting Dark Ritual. So every three that you mill, you recast it again. And you don't gain cards in your yard, but you gain mana and you get to filter the cards in your yard. So if you have seven cards in your yard, eventually you find Prater's Grass for Thos's Oracle.

Speaker 2:
[59:37] Here's my LED, here's Thos's Oracle. Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[59:40] Do I play this in Rogue? I don't know. Maybe I play this in Rogue. Maybe Rogue said I got two cards this set.

Speaker 2:
[59:44] I definitely underrated this card. I gave it a 3.5. I definitely should have given it more than a 3.5 because then I had to keep that in mind for every other card was that, hey, none of these are better than this, than this little wizard that we're talking about, which by the way, you can tutor for with Step Through.

Speaker 1:
[59:58] That one actually might be relevant. And it's weird because like it's worse than Brain Freeze, definitely. And it's on par, I think, with Grinding Station. It might be worse than Grinding Station, but I do feel that it's close to Grinding Station.

Speaker 2:
[60:09] I think it's close to Grinding Station because like Grinding Station works with a lot more things that make it like a little bit easier to just turbo find what you need to.

Speaker 1:
[60:17] Realistically, Grinding Station only works with Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Mox Opal and Mox Amber. All the Mox Diamonds, the Chromoxes and the Lotus Pedals, it only kind of works because you don't get to net mana at the process. Even Mox Diamond because it won't even enter.

Speaker 2:
[60:34] It will enter, but you have to bin it right away before you can...

Speaker 1:
[60:36] There's no chance.

Speaker 2:
[60:37] It will at least un-tap the Grinding Station, but you can't sacrifice it though.

Speaker 1:
[60:40] There's no moment to sacrifice it. Yeah, whereas this works with, and I have to do the math, but this works with Dark Ritual, works with Rider Flame, works with Cabal Ritual, works with not Calling the Weak, because you have to sacrifice the creature over and over again.

Speaker 2:
[60:50] No, but Seedling Song.

Speaker 1:
[60:51] Jessica's Will. Probably other things that I don't know why I can't think of any other rituals.

Speaker 2:
[60:54] Any other ritual? Desperate Ritual, Piratic Ritual?

Speaker 1:
[60:57] Yeah, I think it's a similar one.

Speaker 2:
[60:59] Geo Surge? No.

Speaker 1:
[61:01] The Grinding Station is nice because the Moxopo can already be tapped in in play. Then you play the Grinding Station, sack the Moxopo and do it again. Whereas this, you can't play Dark Ritual first.

Speaker 2:
[61:09] Why couldn't you?

Speaker 1:
[61:10] Why couldn't you? It doesn't help feed it in the same way.

Speaker 2:
[61:12] You just have to cast Underworld Breach.

Speaker 1:
[61:14] You just have to cast Underworld Breach, then you have to cast this. And then even if Dark Ritual is already in your graveyard, which is the same idea as Moxopo being tapped, if you have a mana, cast Dark Ritual again, Millen.

Speaker 2:
[61:22] You just need a couple of things to already be in your graveyard, but if you cast like any other spell to get you to this point, it will fuel you at that point then too.

Speaker 1:
[61:31] And just like the passive Mill 3 is like so perfectly relevant for Breach because of 3.

Speaker 2:
[61:36] Because of 3, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:37] Because you hit Gitaxian Probe, that's 3 cards, and you hit, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[61:40] So do you imagine then like casting 5 mana on this thing and then getting 10 and then getting to like really boost yourself ahead then too?

Speaker 1:
[61:46] Sure, yeah, but like yeah, Flashback on the Gitaxian Probe, Millen another 3, that's good. I think I'm gonna try this card in Rog.

Speaker 2:
[61:51] It seems really good. I think you should give it a try in Rog, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:54] I think Rog is gonna get 2 cards. Yagma Atzul will is coming out.

Speaker 2:
[61:57] Go tutor the exhibition Tidecaller with your Ranger Captain Zavios too, like this might be something.

Speaker 1:
[62:03] I might go buy this card before we release this podcast.

Speaker 2:
[62:05] Yeah, dude, do it. Go pay the pre-release prices. I bet all the stores are gonna love that.

Speaker 1:
[62:11] I'm gonna realize, oh, everyone already knows this card is going to $30.

Speaker 2:
[62:13] Yeah, yeah, it's already really expensive because of pre-release. I don't think you're getting ahead of anything yet. We have to do that with reserve list cards that already exist.

Speaker 1:
[62:21] You know what's really good? Grim Monolith.

Speaker 2:
[62:24] Love Grim Monolith, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:26] All right, anything else you want to say? Thank you so much for watching. If you like to support us directly, you can do so on Patreon like our $100 patrons.

Speaker 2:
[62:32] The Mad, Seabass, Not Carrot, Bob, The Skull, Davisher, Abyss AA, Peggy, E4, Cards and More, Red, Finks, MTG, Wandering Around, Mike H, Tom B, Burt, Cumin of Upkeep, MTG, Nathan Cohen, Mr. Jerby, Okie Toad, Penguinman, 0089, David Newman, Johnny Denver, Omelette, Rocky Hall, Pet Fire, Spengler, Lushen Evoys, Robey Blue, Sparky B, SE. Philip, Holden, Groupie, Zach Hartley, Big League Spangler, Reactive, Sean of the Ice, TheWorks472, Gabriel Garrett, Mace the Ace, Luke Cook, Connor Cipon, Joshua Day, Demon of Roskries, Peter Stewart, Corner, Wild, Uncle Butstoot, Luke, Kauaja, Ahmed, Scott Hawkins, Baby G-Bus.

Speaker 1:
[62:58] If you want to pick up any of our merch, you can do that at playtowinmtg.com.

Speaker 2:
[63:01] Thank you, Dragon Show, for supporting the show. You can also play to win five at the affiliate link down below for 5% off.

Speaker 1:
[63:05] You can follow us on the internet for more content.

Speaker 2:
[63:07] Thank you for watching.

Speaker 1:
[63:08] See you next time.

Speaker 2:
[63:24] Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. David Nelson. I did shrink this morning, I washed myself in cold water.