transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:07] This is The Dane Moore NBA Podcast. We are brought to you by PrizePix. Coming in late Thursday evening. It's April 23rd after the Wolves 17 point win over the Denver Nuggets in game three. They're now up two to one in the series and like two seasons ago. And maybe for the first time in two years, the Wolves are looking like a team that is sort of built to beat Denver. I've got the man who asked Jaden McDaniels if the Denver Nuggets are in fact all bad defenders. Wolves beat writer Chris Hine from The Star Tribune here with me. This one 30 in the morning. How much credit do you take for this? This wolf's victory.

Speaker 2:
[00:53] I saw a few people on Twitter trying to give some props. Hey listen, if earlier in the season when Kyle put out that poll and most people blamed us for the media for the early start of the season, I think we got to take our fair share of credit for what's happening now, right? Victory lap time, exactly. I guess that's it. I guess we in the media just had to lock in and get better quotes out of them. I don't know. But yeah, that was a moment unlike very few in my journalism career.

Speaker 1:
[01:23] What was it like? I mean, let's talk about it.

Speaker 2:
[01:25] Yeah. So it's me and a couple other reporters were just there. And I think we were talking to Jaden for like maybe a minute or two beforehand. It's very by the book sort of stuff. And then I just, you know, because again, they've been so successful when they attacked the rim in this series. Asked a question about, you know, attacking the rim and what was the offensive game plan? And did you, you know, stuff like that? And then out came names, last names, full names. And then he kind of stopped. He I think was Jokic and Murray first. And then then he said all the bad defenders. And then it was Tim Hardaway, Cam Johnson, Aaron Gordon, their whole team. And then I think that's when I chimed in to say, they're all bad defenders. And then he said, they're all bad defenders, dude. It's funny. I just I just I don't know what I was thinking in the moment. Like it's just he just kept going. And so I was like, all these guys are bad defenders. Like confirming can you know, do you want to walk it? I think I think I was also maybe giving him a chance to try to walk it back if he wanted to at all. But he didn't want to walk it back. And and I think I you weren't in the interview session because it's kind of it's kind of a lot because it's kind of a scramble in these situations, especially in the playoffs, like multiple guys are talking at one time. And so you kind of have to pick and choose where you go. And then I think I came up to you afterwards. We were walking down the hallway and I was like, dude, you got to hear what Jaden said.

Speaker 1:
[03:05] It's like, I was like, what? I missed that.

Speaker 2:
[03:08] Oh, my God. And, you know, the Internet is a fickle place. The algorithms, the social media. But never have I been more sure that something that I was posting was about to go viral than that video. I just wanted to make sure I properly contextualized it. And, you know, and I was like, am I in your head? You one of the things you don't want to do as a reporter is you don't want to miss or improperly convey what somebody said. So before I clipped it and put it on the internet, I was like, am I truly representing this interaction? And I watched it like maybe three or four different times before I posted it. And I was like, yes, this is the interaction. So I'm putting it up there. And yeah, it obviously spread like wildfire immediately.

Speaker 1:
[03:59] I think it helped. I think him saying that helped. And obviously, like Hindsight's 2020 in this and the Wolves have a great game as we'll get into. But the thing about what Jaden said is it wasn't wrong.

Speaker 2:
[04:13] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[04:14] I mean, you throw Aaron Gordon in there. Like that was, you know, right. Maybe we didn't have to throw Aaron Gordon's name in there. He's a good defender. But it sets up for game three tonight, where if you're Denver and you've been called out for that, and it's actually what they're worst at. Yeah, they are weak on defenders. They have the best offense in the league, and they were 21st on defense, and they have a lot of personnel who are more offensive players than they are defensive players. So I think if you're those guys coming in, like names an issue that they now feel the responsibility to stand up on and like prove wrong, but they really don't have the ability to be able to do that, which isn't to say that they aren't going to be able to defend the Wolves later on in the series. I still think we got a series here, but by naming what they can't do well, I think it actually made a difference in this game, and I'm sure we'll talk about Jaden backing it all up with his play. But they always say, like, don't say that, right? You know, don't don't do those sort of things because you're giving you're giving the opponent the bull.

Speaker 2:
[05:35] If I hear the term bulleted board material one more time, who has a board anymore? Those aren't things. Nobody has a bulletin board anymore.

Speaker 1:
[05:43] Oh, I think it's rare that something like that is actually beneficial.

Speaker 2:
[05:49] And I and I believe I believe it was it's it's I thought Nas put it well at practice the day of what's today, Thursday. So Wednesday, we talked to Nas and he said, hey, listen, sometimes people just have their own things that that get them motivated and fired up. And for Jaden, this is it.

Speaker 1:
[06:09] I guess a goof.

Speaker 2:
[06:10] Right, right, right. Goofy like they called him crazy. French called him ornery today. Like he's their lovable, crazy, ornery, six, nine power forward. And yeah, I think that's just it. I was thinking after after he said it. In the context of this series and everything we were talking about coming out of game one, which is that they settled too much, they stopped moving the ball, they stopped attacking, they got too much in the ISO ball. Game two, they attacked more, they found success. It's like, all right, well, Jaden is kind of putting the onus on the whole team to be like, let's go at these guys. We know the formula to make these guys look bad on the defensive end of the floor. Now that I've called it out and the whole world is kind of watching us to see if we can back up our talk. If I can back up my talk, we got to go out there and prove it now. I think I put a little bit of healthy pressure on the Wolves. Exactly. I think it worked in the reverse way. I think it motivated the Wolves more than it might have motivated Denver. Because that's just how this team is wired.

Speaker 1:
[07:19] Backwards?

Speaker 2:
[07:20] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[07:20] Wired, but it's backwards?

Speaker 2:
[07:21] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[07:23] All right. Let's get into this. What we've been doing for these immediate reaction pods. We just walked over to the studio from the stadium. We're just going to kind of give you... We just went in the locker room, talked to players, did the press conferences. What Britt and I did after game one and game two was just kind of start with our biggest takeaway from the game that just happened. What would you say yours is?

Speaker 2:
[07:48] I'll go with Ayo. Welcome to the playoffs, Ayo Desumu. This is the picture I think we all kind of had for him in this series, which was just relentless attacking the basket, taking the ball, make or miss turnover, and just sprinting up the floor and trying to attack the basket. He did that the way he played in the first half. It was not a sharp offensive night for the Wolves overall. Obviously, we could talk about and Julius later, but Ayo and then Jaden just finding that attack mode in that first half, made sure that this game that should have been a blowout from the start, was a blowout from the start. That they attacked the rim and got enough easy buckets when Denver just didn't have anything going on either end of the floor and they made sure that lead got into the 20s. Ayo, when Kyle was on here, talk about that was his X Factor for the series. This was, I think, the picture that we all had in mind for what I would assume it looks like in this series and in the playoffs for the Wolves. It took two games. Finch talked about how he was waiting for Ayo to show up in the series and game two, he was there a little more than game one, but game three, he's arrived. That's a welcome site for the Wolves, especially on a night when Ant didn't have it going, and Julius didn't have it going.

Speaker 1:
[09:16] Started the game six for six from two, finished the game ten of 12 from two, and I'm sure that'll be a theme we get into later. It's just the Wolves success attacking the Denver defense, but specifically attacking them all the way to the rim, which again, to bring up the Jaden piece, that's what he was talking about too.

Speaker 2:
[09:34] Precisely.

Speaker 1:
[09:35] He was talking about attacking the rim, he just used inflammatory language to discuss it. Absolutely, Cosine Ayo actually think it's huge that he did come to the party. Like game one, I don't know if it was nerves or his first playoff game in a long time. Game two, we started getting a little bit more from him, but like this Ayo in game three was the one that we saw the final month of the season, who was going to be the player that was going to inject pace, who was going to get them to the rim, and I think offensively, as we'll talk about more, was what they did effectively, offensively in this game. I'm going to say for mine, my biggest takeaway from game three is just that I cannot believe Nikola Jokic has been this ineffective. I mean, game one, nine of 12 from two, two of seven from three, finishes with 25, 13 and 11. Game two, seven of 13 from two, one of seven from three, finishes with 24, 15 and eight. And then tonight, five of 16 from two, two of 10 from three, 27, 15 and three. So you look at his numbers for the series and it's 25, 14 and seven. That sounds like Jokic. But if you go and you look at the efficiency of it, 21 of 41 from two for the series, just over 50 percent.

Speaker 2:
[11:07] You'll think that. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[11:09] And then five of 24 from three. I mean, this is a bunch of credit to Rudy Gobert here. Obviously, Rudy's playing his ass off defensively in the work. He's putting in on on Jokic. And I don't mean any of this to take away from that from Rudy, because that's probably the biggest takeaway of the series, right? Is that Rudy Gobert might be the best player in the series. Right now. But I just, I never would have imagined that we would be here through three games. And a thing we're talking about that you'll get struggled period in any of the first three games. And it's been a bit of a struggle in all three. And then certainly collectively, in the aggregate, like this is not the this is not the MVP that that we we've seen beat up this team for years, man. And I think he's wearing down.

Speaker 2:
[12:09] Yeah, I think so, too. He came out with the intention tonight of trying to score. He was he came out with Aaron Gordon's out. I'm going to take all the shots early on because other games in the series, he has barely shot in the first quarter tonight. I think he had six shots in the first three, four minutes of the game. He missed them all. Yeah, he missed them all. And so you kind of felt the air just come out of Denver sales because to win this game, they needed one of those nights from Jokic. It felt like with Gordon out and in the first three, four minutes of the game, you knew you weren't going to get it.

Speaker 1:
[12:50] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:50] And I think it just was a collective bummer for Denver that they were just and then at that point, you're just we're sitting there in the arena. I'm just like Denver is just waiting for the Wolves to blow them out. And the Wolves were shooting horribly to open the night. And then again, Jaden starts getting downhill, Ayo checks in, starts getting downhill, and all of a sudden the lead starts blossoming into double digits. And and that was that. But it's one of the few times that we've seen where Jokic came out with a very intended plan to score and he just couldn't do it, just couldn't do it.

Speaker 1:
[13:27] It's getting to the point for me where I'm wondering where he's at physically.

Speaker 2:
[13:33] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:34] And and some of that is the micro where he's physically in a game. He's playing 40 minutes, not sitting out very much, playing a lot of minutes. The Wolves are trying to run them. They're trying to attack the rim, do all those sort of things. But I think if you think about it, Nicole Jokic has played a lot of basketball over the last five years, from winning a championship to other deep playoff runs to the Olympics. And just to the fact that he's in his 30s now, you know, like, I'm not saying he's dead. I'm not killing him for the series. I think he's going to come back.

Speaker 2:
[14:12] And he had a pretty significant injury this year.

Speaker 1:
[14:14] He did.

Speaker 2:
[14:15] Doesn't always happen with him. So, you know, he had to, I mean, I know it was earlier in the season, but he still had it. And maybe, you know, I think Jason's telling me that I think it was like Kevin O'Connor, somebody had a stat that his three point shooting is significantly worse after the injury than before the injury.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] I don't think it's just the knee either, man. There he's got like the medical compression sleeve going on his elbow. Like that's not for looks. And then the the wrist up at boat on his shooting hand to has been an on and off again issue for him. Again, I'm not saying any of this to take away from the from the Wolves and especially not to take away from from Rudy Gobert.

Speaker 2:
[15:01] But I am just a little bit just stunned by by how well it's what is done and how human he is looked. Yes, because even two years ago when the Wolves won that series, he played some phenomenal, phenomenal games in that series, even games in the last two years that they played in the regular season, whether it's that Christmas Day game or the 60 point double overtime win that the Wolves have had, he's he's fat. He's always dipped into that otherworldly gear that only he possesses and he's reaching for it and he reached he really tried to reach for it tonight when they absolutely needed it to try to go up in this series and he just couldn't get there. He just just couldn't couldn't get there. And like you said, it's a credit to Rudy, but he's done that in spite of Rudy in previous years. A younger version of Rudy Gobert and he couldn't do it tonight.

Speaker 1:
[16:00] I remember this is going to sound super nerdy, but when the Wolves signed Joe Ingalls and PJ Dozier in the summer two years ago, I was like, I'm gonna watch a Utah Jazz game when they played the Denver Nuggets in the playoffs in the bubble, because it was like Joe Ingalls was coming to the team. He was supposed to be the next Kyle Anderson and I was like, oh, PJ Dozier. So PJ Dozier is playing for the Denver Nuggets and obviously Ingalls is playing with Conley and Gobert for the Jazz and I turned on this game from the bubble with the plan and Jokic scored 21 points in the first quarter against Gobert. Just it was the same Utah, the same strategy like Gardening in one on one, everybody else with Rudy, everybody else is staying at home. That was the plan as it has been the Wolves plan and Jokic ate it, you know, and consistently has done that against against Gobert when it's a one on one situation, not 21 points in the first quarter every time. That's been profitable. It was two seasons ago when the Wolves had to had to go to that in that playoff series when when when Kat would get in foul trouble and Rudy would have to guard him one on one. I mean, this this is such a far cry of success for Rudy comparatively to what he he does.

Speaker 2:
[17:22] It's so stark is so stark because we are just used to that. We're used to seeing and I remember two years ago, like all the all the comments on social media when Jokic would light Rudy up, you'd see everybody saying this is the defensive player of the year. What the hell? You know, it was it was every night seemingly because he would have his way with Rudy. And yeah, it's just been such a stark. Dark difference.

Speaker 1:
[17:49] And so I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[17:51] I guess I would have to go back and look at some of the some of that film from two years ago or hell, even that game where you put up 60 last year. And like, what is the difference? Is he slower? Is he is is there are the mechanics of his shot? Just off as he being is he rushed? Is he? I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[18:07] I think Rudy's stronger. I think Rudy has gotten stronger. And and again, if you would, if you look at what Rudy physically looked like when I'm talking about the bubble six years ago, five year, whatever that was, like Rudy was a was a thinner, thinner player. I think Rudy as he's gotten into his 30s is looking up a bit. I don't you think like even in his time here? Yeah, he is like sturdier there. Plus, he is has length on Jokic. And that was that's where the cat piece of it worked so well as because for Jokic to score even over Carl, he would he couldn't just shoot over him. You know what I'm saying? Like Carl was long, seven foot, four or five wingspan, whatever, seven footer himself. It makes it when Jokic is going against somebody who is seven feet tall and long, he can't just shoot over him. He needs to make a move to create space to be able to be able to take to take a shot. And Rudy is taller and longer than Carl. So there are no easy, like, not no, but there's been very few possessions in this series thus far where Jokic has easily scored on Go Bear. You know what I'm saying? It requires him to make a strong drive. Like the dunk or like a couple other times where the pick and pop and he catches it and goes, and he gets around Rudy and goes finishes there. Like I, it sounds kind of cliché, but it's like not letting anything be easy, you know, and that and I think Rudy has has absolutely done that where it hasn't been easy. And then the threes, the open threes have been easy. And then Jokic just isn't making right.

Speaker 2:
[19:48] That's that's stark, too, because we thought he was going to have to hit these threes to keep them honest. And what's he shooting for the series? Two for ten tonight, five for twenty four from five for twenty four from three and Denver, thirty nine percent from three point range for the regular season. Have they topped thirty percent in any game this series? I don't know. I don't know if game two they did.

Speaker 1:
[20:13] I could click on it. Yes, they did in game to Denver shot, sorry. Thirty six percent from three in that game. Yeah, they started hot in that game, but they yeah, they.

Speaker 2:
[20:28] But there were 39 percent in the regular season and they had. I know for game. I know game one, they were also under 30. They've now had two games sub 30 percent from three point range or one where they were 36. So this light them up three point shooting team that carried their number one offense has been nonexistent and 28 percent in game one, 25 percent in game three.

Speaker 1:
[20:50] Yeah, 36 in game in game two there when they were the number one three point shooting team in the NBA.

Speaker 2:
[20:56] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[20:56] This season, not only just making them at a high club, but consistently creating good threes. I don't feel like they're consistently creating good open in threes in the series.

Speaker 2:
[21:06] Well, that's that plays into the whole Rudy, the end of Jokic one on one and just live by the consequences. Everybody else stay home.

Speaker 1:
[21:14] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[21:14] That's the that's the plan. Right. And the bonus is that Rudy is not getting cooked.

Speaker 1:
[21:20] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[21:21] Like and so it's been working fantastically the last two the last two games. Um, and it has allowed, you know, Finch kind of said tonight too. It was don't let anybody else have a career night on us. Right. Don't let anybody else get going. And that was paramount tonight. And then you saw Jokic kind of kind of played into that mindset that the Wolves had of let's make sure none of these other guys get going because Aaron Gordon is out and that's one less option.

Speaker 1:
[21:51] Well, if you were Jokic, wouldn't you be like, well, who who's going to have the career night?

Speaker 2:
[21:57] That's just it, especially when you start with Spencer Jones, who is a non-factor offensively. You don't you don't try to go offense. You don't start. You don't go small with Johnson at the four and just try to put Hardaway out there or something or and go that route. Maybe maybe they will later. I don't know because 11 points in the first quarter, you got to start differently if Aaron Gordon is not going to be on the floor for game four.

Speaker 1:
[22:25] So the show is brought to you by Treasure Island Resort and Casino. And I want to let you know for game five, when the Wolves are back in Denver, that the Timberwolves organization is hosting a watch party at Treasure Island for that game. We did a live show at one of these watch parties earlier in the season. And the wolves really do go all out for these. Treasure Island is a partner of theirs. And what that looked like at our watch party was John, the in arena announcer for the Wolves. He was there hosting the party. It also included the Timberwolves dancers, a live DJ, and Crunch has been there before when we've done them. For game five, which is Monday, April 27th, there will not only be a DJ, but also free food, drink specials, and lots of giveaways, including Wolves tickets. I know one time they gave away a signed Aunt Jersey at one of these. The game does start at 9.30, but the watch party begins at 9 p.m. That is late. So if you'd like to make a night out of it, you can book a room at Treasure Island. If you do that, use the promo code Wolves and you will receive 20% off your stay. For more information on this Timberwolves hosted live show for game five, go to ticasino.com. Today's show is also brought to you by PrizePix. And this season you can play all of the playoff games over at PrizePix. By the time you listen to this on Friday or Saturday, PrizePix will have a full set of stats up for you to take more or less on for game four of Wolves Nuggets. But let's make some picks from the Friday slate of games. We're just going to go over the point spreads. Boston is 7.5 point favorites over Philly, in Philly for game three of that series. Houston is 8.5 point favorites over the Lakers in Houston, but they are down 2-0 in that series. And then San Antonio is only 1.5 point favorites over Portland for game three in Portland on Friday night, where they'll be without Victor Wembenyama. You can find those spreads, winners and totals over on the Teams tab. And you can do that even in Minnesota. That is all of course, in addition to the players tab, where you can put together lineups by selecting again, more or less on a specific players stat. If you don't yet have a PricePix account, all you have to do is put in the promo code Dane. When you sign up, you'll receive $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 line up. That's pricepix.com and the PricePix app using promo code Dane. We'll come back to Gordon. Let's talk a little bit about the Wolves offense and the transition that they played with. In transition, you're getting to the rim, but also in the half court, they were getting to the rim. I looked it up. During the regular season, 32 percent of the Wolves shots were at the rim, which is pretty high, 10th in the league. They made 68 percent of their shots at the rim during the regular season, 12th best in the league. Above average of both of those. So tonight, 46 percent of the shots were at the rim, and they made 74 percent of them. So it was regular season, 32 percent frequency, 68 percent accuracy. Tonight, 46 percent frequency, 74 percent higher frequency, higher accuracy. By a lot. Yes. And how they did it mostly was by getting out in transition and running and we can picture Ayo just running by them. And getting all the way to finish on the right side for layup after layup. Obviously this ties into the defense some too. If you want to get out in transition, you got to get stops, got to generate live ball turnovers. But I just thought it was that's regardless of what the result would have was. That's what you want the Wolves offense to be looking like is knocking on the door of transition all the time. Is this a transition opportunity?

Speaker 2:
[26:05] I don't know if it is. Go check. Let's just see if it is.

Speaker 1:
[26:07] We've been saying that for a couple of months. Just knock on the door. Deceiving it a transition opportunity because in the half court, especially in the playoffs, now Denver, even Denver can set up and load up, get into their zone, switch, whatever. Just don't play in the half court as much as you possibly can avoid it. I thought the Wolves did a great job of avoiding that.

Speaker 2:
[26:33] There was one moment that I think encapsulated the whole first half. I think it was after I always was taking the ball after makes, but I think this one was after a miss. Somebody grabbed a rebound, turned down IO off to the right side of the floor. And you could see Jokic was like starting to jog back. And the I'll catches the ball and starts going and you could see Jokic be like, Oh, shit, I got to get back. He looked, he tried to book it back there, right? Like that's the effect. That's the pressure. That's what that does. It makes it makes him have to sprint down the floor when he doesn't want to sprint down the floor. That's exactly it. Even if you end up not scoring or peel it back out, whatever he gets back there and beats you to the rim, and you have to peel it back out. You made him sprint down the floor when he would rather otherwise not sprint down the floor. That's what it does. And Ayo just picture perfect, played it to perfection tonight. And it was it was a marvel to watch because the thing that I think you you you love about Ayo's game is that he will find those tree, he will find those transition opportunities. He will do that. He will poke and prod and say, I'm just going to sprint for from three quarters court to the three point line. And maybe something's there. Maybe something's that he does that more than anybody else on the team.

Speaker 1:
[27:56] And I mean, honestly, as much as anybody in the league.

Speaker 2:
[28:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:01] Like that's, that's his game.

Speaker 2:
[28:02] Yeah, that is his game. Bones will do it a little bit as well. And his loathe to do it, especially now that he's got a not bum knee, but how are you going to say that knee that is maybe not 100% and he just doesn't want to do it in general? Jaden will do it. Jaden will probe, he will poke, and he was successful at it too. And that's it. That's the key to the series. They've unlocked it.

Speaker 1:
[28:36] And the chance it taps into what they're better than Denver at.

Speaker 2:
[28:40] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[28:40] Yeah. They're faster, they're stronger, and they're more athletic.

Speaker 2:
[28:44] But here is the thing, though, Dane, that we'll get into. I think we're going to get into this too. But like then there were moments where Ant checked back in and he was trying to get himself going and taking contested mid range shots or step back threes. And then Julius was trying to get himself going. The start of that fourth quarter was ugly. Yeah. It was a bad, bad start to the fourth quarter. And Denver kind of got there. They were too far back to really make a comeback. But Denver kind of got back in a little bit. And it was because they just stopped playing that way. And they do that because Ant and Julius at times say to themselves, I got to try to get myself going. And then in game one, the whole team said that to themselves. It's like, no, don't deviate from the script.

Speaker 1:
[29:35] You're already going. The team is already going.

Speaker 2:
[29:37] Yeah, you're doing so well. Everybody's playing so well playing this particular way. Follow follow with it. Feed into it. Don't don't buck the trend like it. Yeah, it just it boggled my mind. Some of those possessions that those guys just tried to try to get themselves going when the rest of the team was was playing so well around them. And it just kind of for moments of the game, not too long for fortunately for the Wolves, kind of brought everything to a screeching halt on the offensive end of the floor.

Speaker 1:
[30:11] Yeah, it is a it's a it's a credit to the rest of the guys who I do think stayed committed to the bit and you know, and that that's the difference from like Ayo to Sumo to Anthony Edwards or Julius Randall is like. He can't just in the Iota Sumo isn't just like in the half court going to be like, all right, clear out ISO for me, you know, like the way I was scoring 25 in a game in the playoffs is this is the script. You know, he got 10 buckets at the rim, you know, and how else is he going to do that other than other than with transition? The intention Jaden had there. I thought he both like bones too. Like it was it was they were consistently putting pressure on the rim. And I will actually say I know the stat line doesn't doesn't love Julius, but I think he contributed to that too. He was looking to get down there.

Speaker 2:
[31:05] That's true. And there were times where he was attacking the rim and he just wasn't successful at it or he missed the shot at the rim.

Speaker 1:
[31:12] It was quick.

Speaker 2:
[31:12] I don't care if it's he was doing it more than it was. Yes, tonight. I'll say that.

Speaker 1:
[31:17] Well, should we talk about in a little bit and just like where we think this is this is at with him? Because I took it out in the first quarter. Just like I think it looks healthy, you know, and then maybe it was in the moment. The wolves were kind of rolling.

Speaker 2:
[31:33] But well, he was getting up for rebounds early. I like he had he had we have five rebounds. But but early on, I think he had two rebounds in the first quarter where I was sitting there thinking to myself, those aren't rebounds he gets in the regular season or really tries for. Like, OK, he's he's here. He's jumping pretty high to get these rebounds. He looks good, at least early.

Speaker 1:
[31:56] I know. I thought so, too. I thought he did look good physically early on. And then and then it kind of stopped, you know, stopped looking as good. And I wonder, do you think like the score had anything to do with that?

Speaker 2:
[32:12] The score of the game?

Speaker 1:
[32:13] Yeah, they were up. No, that they were up.

Speaker 2:
[32:15] Well, foul trouble had something to do with just the whole rhythm of his game and his overall level of frustration. He had to check out pretty much every quarter because he picked up another foul.

Speaker 1:
[32:26] That's true.

Speaker 2:
[32:27] Like he had two in the first quarter. He picked up a third in the second, a fourth in the third and then a fifth in the fourth. So every quarter he had to check out because he got in foul trouble and Finch didn't have to go back to him at the end and he was able to rest and not come back in with five fouls. But yeah, I don't know if the score had anything to do with it or I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[32:54] Just like in general.

Speaker 2:
[32:55] I thought he did a good job overall defensively. I would agree with that. He contributed to the defensive effort tonight. Like he was not a liability there. The way that we saw him just kind of leave some open shooters in games one and two, that wasn't really happening tonight.

Speaker 1:
[33:13] I just and I think this is actually a glass half full sort of thing. I just wonder if you're dealing with what he's dealing with with his knee. And it's the end of the first quarter and the score is 25 to 11. The opponent has scored 11 points against you. Like even if it's subconscious, don't you kind of start thinking to yourself like maybe I don't need to find that other gear tonight. Yeah, like let's not even try to go to it.

Speaker 2:
[33:39] But he was on the bench for that. For that, he was he had to sit.

Speaker 1:
[33:41] I'm saying he came back into the game after it had been kind of established that the Wolves were winning this game by a lot.

Speaker 2:
[33:49] Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1:
[33:50] And I think that's the optimistic take on it. He did grab at his knee at one time. That was actually his left knee where I think he bumped knee to knee with Spencer Jones. The injury he has is on his sleeved right knee where he has the knee inflammation he has going on there. I mean, it's obviously something to track every game and maybe go back and watch it and see what I see. But I found myself in all three games going at times. Ant looks fine.

Speaker 2:
[34:22] And also Ant looks hurt, you know, which probably means he's hurt because if he's can turn on sometimes and not others, that means he's right. He's hurt at least a little bit. I was I was a little surprised just given that it was a two day off scenario that he wasn't maybe as as fresh in that in that sense. So we'll see if the if the I just think you would look would have looked more for if it was twenty five to twenty five after the first. That's fair.

Speaker 1:
[34:50] That's my my opinion.

Speaker 2:
[34:52] But I will say just in general, I was very skeptical that this team would be able to win without Anthony Edwards playing at that kind of level. And here they are winning easily when he has nowhere near a great game. I do not think that this team was capable of that against this Denver team. And here we are after three games.

Speaker 1:
[35:17] The series is crazy, man.

Speaker 2:
[35:18] Two to one in the series. Yeah, it's crazy. And it hasn't really had one of those games yet.

Speaker 1:
[35:26] Ant hasn't, Jokic hasn't, but Rudy Gobert has.

Speaker 2:
[35:29] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[35:30] I mean, it's just and Aaron Gordon's out. It's as is always the case with Wolf's Nuggets. It's high, confusing, high drama.

Speaker 2:
[35:40] Or you're like, I'm not even sure exactly what's happening here, but I'm I'm thinking about how the crazy that series was two years ago and all the blowouts that happened in that series. It was a competitive series because it was a seven game series in that sense. But a lot of those games were lopsided. They were both ways. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:59] And game game two, where Rudy doesn't play, they blow them out. Game six, game six, they blow them out.

Speaker 2:
[36:06] But then Denver kind of controlled the middle three games. I know those were particularly close.

Speaker 1:
[36:10] Those were the good Jokic games on Rudy.

Speaker 2:
[36:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:15] They also had Aaron Gordon in that series. And no, no Aaron Gordon tonight. Let's walk through. Let's walk through some of that. We can talk about what some of the differences were. You know, Spencer Jones starts in his place. A couple of other guys who hadn't played in the series, Julian Strother, Zeke Naji played. Let's wind back to two hours before the game when we talked to David Adelman. And and he talked about this this Aaron Gordon injury. Can you kind of just lay out what I guess David Adelman laid out?

Speaker 2:
[36:51] Yeah, it just kind of seems like it got progressively worse for Aaron Gordon over the last like 48 hours, the way that he came out of game two with this injury. And they just want to see how he responded over the next couple of days. And it just it just seemed like it just wasn't getting better. And the rest, the two days of rest didn't really help. And we saw, you know, the designations kind of played into that. He was listed as probable on Wednesday night. And then Thursday, late morning comes around, they downgrade him to questionable. And then he's he's out. And I don't I have not seen if Denver has gotten an MRI on him. I wonder if that's David Allman reference like Friday being more of a day to maybe have a discussion about his availability for game four. So maybe that tells me that maybe they're going to get an MRI for him if they haven't already. So we'll see what happens. We'll see if they release something about his availability for game four. But it did not sound optimistic that that Aaron Gordon was going to play in game four either.

Speaker 1:
[37:59] I thought one thing was telling about it was Nicole Jokic when he spoke to the media after the game and was asked about the Gordon injury, he said he knew he wasn't going to be playing two days ago. And probable whatever. But as Adelman said, it was aggravated after game two, and that's when it got on their radar. And I think what Jokic is saying is he seemed to be in rough shape. Yeah, like the aggravation was actually probably not playing sort of situation. And Aaron Gordon is as tough as they come. He played with a grade two hamstring strain in the playoffs last year. But he has he is a soft tissue injury guy, you know, and this stuff, this stuff keeps keeps popping up for him. We talked about this during the regular season when we were talking about Denver of, like, what are the odds that Aaron Gordon, as good as he is, is going to be able to play throughout the entirety of the postseason. It was just always a coin flip at best, I think. And unfortunately, for Denver, you know, it took two games. And then some other soft tissue injury wasn't the hamstring this time, which I think if you're a Nuggets fan, that's maybe something you're holding on to because his injuries during the course of the season that cost him to miss 46 games or whatever it was were hamstring injuries, hamstring injuries that he suffered both of on the second night of back to backs. Like you talk about wearing them down. It's not just Jokic and Murray. It's Gordon too.

Speaker 2:
[39:46] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[39:46] Just physically he can be worn down.

Speaker 2:
[39:49] And hamstrings and calves are the two injuries that you don't mess with. And so you hear calf injury and it's yeah. I wonder if we're going to get some more information tomorrow because it just it I was not aware that Jokic had said that. But you couple that with kind of the vibe of David Adam in pregame. And it's not it's not good for Denver. It didn't sound good for Denver.

Speaker 1:
[40:16] It is bad vibes around Aaron Gordon for sure. From what their public commentary.

Speaker 2:
[40:21] And you can see you can see just the the the windfall effect on the rest of the roster. Christian Brown tonight, 0 for 4, two points. You know, Spencer Jones comes in takes three shots, he had a pair of corner threes in the second half. Three shot attempts, Cam Johnson, two for six. It allows nobody stepped up. Nobody stepped up a but it also allows the Wolves to just zero in even more on some of these other guys because they don't have to worry about an Aaron Gordon as a potential third option, you know, torching them the way that he did in moments two years ago and has had some good games over the years. It's just bad, bad news for Denver if he's not available.

Speaker 1:
[41:09] I just wonder how many of their role players that are better this year, better bench, right? In Denver this season, but I wonder how many of them are like the type of role player that like scale up when they're given a bigger opportunity. Like Terrence Shannon Jr. is a good example of that, right? For the Wolves. If you're going to play in like eight minutes a game, not going to really work. But if you put the ball in his hands and you give him more of an opportunity, you get more than a role player from TJ. And I just think like the nature of the players that they have, that they've got to fit specific roles around Jokic and Murray, to fit those specific roles. Like Tim Hardaway isn't going to, you're not going to just start running like pick and roll with Tim Hardaway, you know?

Speaker 2:
[41:53] Well, this year that player was Peyton Watson for them, who's currently hurt.

Speaker 1:
[41:59] And I mean, dude, that's what's tough about it is it's not just that Gordon is out. It's that all of their forwards are out or hurt. Watson is like the backup to Gordon. And then Spencer Jones, who did start tonight, kind of like the third string power forward. And he was questionable to play in this series too when it began. He hasn't been a solid, great two-way signing by them. He's definitely been helpful for that team. But I don't think this is the best version of him physically. I don't think this is the best version of Christian Brown physically after the ligaments and stuff that he tore in his ankle earlier in the season. I don't see the same pop from Christian Brown that I've been used to seeing for the last handful of seasons, getting out in transition, being explosive around the basket. I think this team is banged up and it has them reaching deep into the bag of not that good of tricks. Spencer Jones has to come in to be the Julius Randall stopper. That's tough. Julian Strother has to come in after not playing at all in the first two games. Jax in the game immediately throws the ball out of balance. He's not in rhythm. Zeke Naji came in actually in the non-Jokic minutes in the second quarter and he made a couple of buckets, but like Zeke Naji has been buried on that Denver bench basically since he's been there. There's not something to reach to that they can go and grab and be like, hey, just step up into this opportunity that the absence of Watson and Gordon have created.

Speaker 2:
[43:41] The way that Ayo Desumo can step up into a role in a style of play that the team can lean into. What is Denver's other sort of style of play outside of Murray Jokic? Like the Wolves, as painful as it can be at times, the Wolves have a couple different gears they can shift to. They can go all pace transition that they want to do. They could play through Julius at times. They play through Ant. They could give the ball to Jaden Moore. They have all these sort of... They could go small without Rudy on the floor. They have all these different sort of gears and levers that Chris Finch can pull roster wise and stylistically wise that Denver just doesn't. Denver is just has depended on and it's been successful, ruthless efficiency from one of the best all time players to touch a basketball and a very good number to just doing their thing over and over and over again. And everybody feeds off of that. The Wolves can shift around based on personnel and where where a game or a series might be going. Denver doesn't have that because they're just not as deep and as healthy right now because they're one and two punch a really good one and two punches, but they punch like in conjunction with each other. Yes, with the Yokochimaru two man game and everybody else is in conjunction with them. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1:
[45:17] And that's that you're right. That is just inherently a different approach to offense than the Wolves bring. You know, the Wolves do have different faces of the way that they can play offense. And yeah, without Aaron Gordon, they're definitely in trouble in that realm. Today's show is brought to you by Warby Parker. And I think we've all had frustrating experiences with glasses before. Finding the right prescription can be complicated. And even if it's just sunglasses, which Warby also sells, finding the right fit on your face can be difficult, right? Warby makes that whole process easier. Seriously, there's nothing that comes close on quality, price, selection and customer service. Sort of a game changer for Warby is they have these virtual trions that sort of help you fit your face correctly. You know, I got a skinny head. So when I got some sunglasses from Warby Parker, that's where the process started for me. Which styles actually fit on my face as I wanted to? I landed on the downing frames for my glasses. You used to have to choose between flimsy outdated styles or spending half your paycheck. Warby Parker completely changed that. Prescription glasses start at $95, so you can actually get quality and stylish frames at an affordable price. Warby Parker is also covered by major insurance plans, and if you are covered, they automatically apply that for you right now. Buy one prescription pair and get 20 percent off any additional prescription pairs at warbyparker.com/danemoore. That's 20 percent off additional prescription pairs when you go to warbyparker.com/danemoore. Today's show is brought to you by Storyworth, and we're excited to have Storyworth back with us for the postseason. I know many of you purchased Storyworth memoirs for your parents at Christmas when we were talking about them on the show back in December. So now with Mother's Day right around the corner, we'd love it if you thought about getting this for the mother in your life. I'm going to explain how Storyworth works. Each week, Storyworth sends her a question about her life. She responds however she wants, writing back over e-mail or the web, voice recording or new this year, a guided phone call. There's no apps, logins or tech hassle. Storyworth makes it easy for her so she can focus on the joy of remembering and reflecting. You then get each story as she tells it, and after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, her life into a beautiful hardcover book. Families have used Storyworth to create over a million books, and more than 50,000 five-star reviews agree it will be a treasure your family will love. This year, give mom a gift that helps her reflect on her life with fresh perspective and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's Day is Sunday, May 10th, so order right now and save up to $20 at storyworth.com/janemoore. Save up to $20 at storyworth.com/janemoore. That's storyworth.com/janemoore. Let's talk a little bit about... Actually, let's stay positive. I was going to say Nas, we can just say like Nas didn't have a good game. I don't think we need to go deep into that. Ant, obviously, Fowl Trouble, Knee. Julius, I'm not too worried. I'm not too worried about about that game, I think, especially with Gordon out. He can be a real thorn in Denver's side for the rest of this series. Let's talk a little bit more about Rudy, because we're talking about Rudy in the guarding Jokic element to this series. Which, you know, 10 out of 10 great. But what I've said throughout the course of this week is I was like, it's not just about the defense. Like if Rudy is going to have a great series needs to be helpful on offense too. And this was a little bit more like game one, a little lefty hook, you know, he's doing a little bit more, a little bit more often.

Speaker 2:
[49:06] He was feeling himself a little bit. He was feeling himself.

Speaker 1:
[49:09] He looks like it looks weird, but he looks it's the most comfortable. I've seen his offensive weirdness sort of sort of look over the over the course of the season. And he like the dribble handoffs, the screens he's setting are good. When they get into the half court and it isn't transition, well they do need to then create an advantage by, you know, doing a dribble handoff or setting a screen. And Rudy is a great screen setter. Like there's a couple in that first quarter where it was just like, no, Dante, come here, dribble handoff. I'm going to set a screen on this guy and you're going to have an open look like Rudy can that does create offense in a way for the Wolves. I do think Rudy has been not great on both sides of all. He's been great on defense, but he's been at least solid on offense in this series through three games, too. And that's a lot of credit. That's a lot of credit to him as well. And we talked about this matchup and Rudy being the weak point offensively, given the way that they leave him open and they double and put two on it, bring help on Julius. Like beating Denver was always going to be about Rudy helping on offense in this series. And it's not as much as he's helped on defense, but he has certainly been a helpful piece to this offense as well. And yeah, again, just blown away by what I've seen from Rudy here.

Speaker 2:
[50:42] Yeah, 100%. It was kind of your X factor coming into the season was just this series.

Speaker 1:
[50:50] But the season two.

Speaker 2:
[50:51] The season two is, yeah, we were talking about this.

Speaker 1:
[50:54] How many times have I talked about Rudy on the short roll, push shots? It's all the same shit.

Speaker 2:
[50:58] It's all the same stuff.

Speaker 1:
[50:59] What are you doing in the middle of the floor? Like, can you do anything?

Speaker 2:
[51:02] And it's been fine. It's been fine. And that's that's what you want.

Speaker 1:
[51:10] And that's fine.

Speaker 2:
[51:11] And that's fine.

Speaker 1:
[51:12] Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
[51:14] That's fine. And he's contributed on the glass, which is, you know, something that he's done a pretty good job of all season, you know, not so much tonight, but game two, the Wolves had a ton of second chance points in that game. He obviously plays a big part in that, whether he's getting the offensive rebounds or just keeping them alive for other people to grab. That was maybe an unheralded thing that he did in game two. Everybody did, you know, yeah, it's gotten to the point where it's not a choice, it's not an either or. Like, okay, we're going to go defense because Rudy's here. Like, I wonder what, I don't know what the stats are, but what are the offensive efficiencies and the defensive efficiencies in the series with him on, off the floor?

Speaker 1:
[52:11] I remember his offensive when his offensive rating in game once when he was on the floor, what the wolf scored was offensive rating of 121 in game two. It was 65. That was a foul trouble. Yeah, he was not as helpful in that game. But I do think overall it just hasn't been like a sore thumb. And I wouldn't even say game two really was either. You know, it's there haven't been the fumbles, right? There haven't been the fumbles at no point.

Speaker 2:
[52:37] There haven't been the deflating, Oh my God, Rudy dropped an easy pass. None of the things that just take the air out of the arena and the team. We haven't we haven't seen any of the loud mistakes, right?

Speaker 1:
[52:51] Right.

Speaker 2:
[52:51] You haven't seen any of those.

Speaker 1:
[52:53] And that makes me like if game four, there are a couple of those. But they're going to come at some point like he's going to fumble one or you know, he's not like. I wonder if if he's accrued some goodwill here, you know, up through three series where if he does drop that one and drop off from Julius in the first quarter, if Julius just runs back or bones, this road runs back and nobody throws a towel up in the air and nobody rolls their eyes at it. Like I think I would say he has.

Speaker 2:
[53:22] He's been he's been the MVP of this series for the MVP.

Speaker 1:
[53:25] Yeah, I'm write that down.

Speaker 2:
[53:27] And yeah, he's earned the right to kick one or two out of bounds without people rolling their eyes.

Speaker 1:
[53:35] What did you make of him saying a couple of times like 14 more to go?

Speaker 2:
[53:40] Well, they have that written on the whiteboard. By the way, there's no bulletin boards. There's white boards, no bulletin boards. It's 14. They do this every playoffs. It's a thing they do. They write.

Speaker 1:
[53:52] That's our early number.

Speaker 2:
[53:53] Write the number on the board and they erase it and they write it in after every win. And, you know, sometimes for a week at a time, it doesn't change. That's numbers like in the OKC series last year. That number didn't change for a little while.

Speaker 1:
[54:09] But yeah, he sees an opportunity, though, here, man. I really think he does. And I don't know. I mean, there's a there are there's a long ways to go. But like, there's nothing that dude is more motivated by period than. Winning winning playoff, you know.

Speaker 2:
[54:28] He sees an opportunity and it's in me. It's in probably the most unlikely year of having an opportunity, considering the path that they're going to have to travel to get potentially to the finals.

Speaker 1:
[54:42] And the path that they've already traveled before they got on this difficult path to the finals.

Speaker 2:
[54:47] I mean, two years ago was the opportunity if you're if we're being honest with ourselves, right? We'll see what happens the rest of this year. You never know injury luck. Wemby's got a concussion. Jalen Williams has a hamstring injury, like all those things for Oklahoma City and San Antonio. But but yeah, I I'll say this, maybe resting the last week of the season did him a lot of good.

Speaker 1:
[55:11] I think that's a good fallback.

Speaker 2:
[55:12] I think his body, I think it just allowed him to get his body in great condition. Just rest, recuperate to all the things that he wants to do or can do. He just came out charged and ready to go for this series. I think of all the people that rested in the last week of the season, it probably did him the most good. It shows that he looks refreshed out there.

Speaker 1:
[55:43] I asked him tonight at the press conference. I was like, you haven't looked tired out in the series. Have you thought about that? I haven't seen Rudy looking like.

Speaker 2:
[55:53] To me, it's interesting. Rudy looks tired to me when he has some of those bad Rudy games, when he's not as effective defensively, when he is fumbling the ball, when he is doing those things that you roll your eyes at, or he's not as imposing on the glass as he is. How many times throughout the course of the year do we hear Finch and Rudy himself reference, I gotta be better rebounding. I haven't been myself in that area. That's another area where that manifests itself. And again, tens across the board for those areas for him because he looks, he looks charged. He looks charged up every night. He's out there.

Speaker 1:
[56:34] Wildly impressive. Like you said, MVP of the series. Thus far it is late. Do you have anything else that you want to hit on?

Speaker 2:
[56:46] Yeah, Jaden.

Speaker 1:
[56:48] Yeah, maybe we didn't even get Jaden enough.

Speaker 2:
[56:51] Let's circle back to Jaden to wrap it up. And just the dude said what he said and then came out and scored 20 points at 10 rebounds. It was nine for 13 from the field. He talked the talk and he walked the walk.

Speaker 1:
[57:05] Cool.

Speaker 2:
[57:06] And it's a cool thing. And I wrote this in the paper. It's just in general. I don't know. Your audience is obviously full of basketball nerds who who follow this team religiously. But that's what stuff is good for the game, man. Like I I don't want people I don't like when people say that he shouldn't be saying that or they shouldn't be saying that stuff. And of course, me as a journalist who likes quotable material is going to say that. But you hear people complain the NBA isn't what it used to be, you know, in the 80s and 90s when guys wanted to kill each other and this and that. And well, this is this is a little bit of that.

Speaker 1:
[57:45] These guys want to kill each other.

Speaker 2:
[57:46] What you've been complaining is missing from the NBA in 2026. And Jaden McDaniels is bringing it back. He's bringing back old school hatred in a way. And backing it up and backing it up too. And that's that's the fun part about it. And that's the other thing. It's like you need rivalries. You need you need villains. I wonder how many people out there tune in and saw that clip of him talking the other night and then was like I'm going to tune into the game three because I want to see what the hell happens after he said this. You need kind of the WWE if a cation a little bit of some of these storylines and certainly doesn't generate interest. It doesn't hurt. But but in people out there that that crap on the NBA product or this modern age of the NBA. I don't know what more you want out of the NBA than Timberwolves, nuggets right now and all that all that it encompasses both in terms of the play and what's being said off the floor. I know.

Speaker 1:
[58:53] I think I think you're absolutely right. And it is a rivalry. It seems to play 31 times in the past four years and it's 16 to 15. You know, like this is an awesome basketball series. And it and every time these two teams square off, it's what more would you want than the best player in the world going against the star on the rise, even if his knees hurt, who is the most charismatic star in the league, plus a bunch of really interesting, really unique others, right? You know who? Who have a like legitimate rivalry with their hatred. If you want to call it that to the other team, it is cool. Like, that's just I'd be locked in on this series if I wasn't working it, you know, like that would be the one I'd I would have a circle. You know, you look at your thing. You're like, all right, Celtic Sixers. No, under sons. No, I'm gonna watch this one.

Speaker 2:
[59:57] You know, like Denver. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[59:59] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[60:00] And so Atlanta, New York. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:02] Yeah. 11 New York State, too. What those were kind of the two we were we were thinking going into the series. But yeah, I'm glad we book ended it with Jaden McDaniels because this was the Jaden McDaniels. They're all bad defenders. And let me show you why. Yeah, you know, a game and you know, shout out to him. That's a there's a pressure. There's a pressure that comes with that, you know, and he got put through the media cycle, not just with that comment, you know, then when we interviewed him this morning at shoot around, just getting peppered with those questions today after the game, he's he's asked about it all over again. I don't think he's ever going to make another comment like this again, because he does not want this type of limelight. He does not need it like he doesn't regret saying it from like irritating that he's like, man, this just made me talk too much sort of standpoint, but it worked.

Speaker 2:
[61:00] It worked. It worked. It got him juiced up. I got the team juiced up and it went by 17 to one lead.

Speaker 1:
[61:08] You got anything to plug?

Speaker 2:
[61:10] Nothing really to plug. Just stay tuned to Star Tribune coverage. I'll try to tweet out everything I write, but we'll have some features and things as we move along here. Hope to put out some good stuff over the next week or so. So just stay tuned.

Speaker 1:
[61:28] You can read everything by the book. Yeah. The book, Ant. As I always say, be reading what all these guys are writing because for all of us, it's the time of year when you turn up and lock in on this, you know, sometimes we put in regular season efforts during the regular season.

Speaker 2:
[61:50] Yeah. You know, but you know, here we're not always up till 220 writing and recording stuff.

Speaker 1:
[61:56] But it's fun. It's fun for fun for a period of time. And you and John and Jason, everybody else who's been around is doing a great job. I'm enjoying reading and listening to everything. So I appreciate you coming here and doing this with me late. After a late tip off, and I'm ready for an earlier game on Saturday. But this was fun. That was a fun game. And I'm excited to keep this series going for listeners. I was going to have Brendan vote on the show tomorrow morning or tomorrow at some point. He covers the nuggets for DNVR. But I think we're going to take a day off and we're going to, we're going to, we're going to skip, we're going to skip a Friday show this week. And then we're back on Saturday after game four for another immediate reaction pod. But this will be, this will be the only, the only episode between games three and games four. There's a lot of series left and Chris and I, and the rest of the beat will be there, will be there to cover it and, and talk about it here. But yeah, until Saturday night after game four. He's Chris, I'm Dane.

Speaker 2:
[63:04] Peace.