transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:05] Hello, and welcome to This Car Pod!
Speaker 2:
[00:08] I'm Kenan.
Speaker 3:
[00:09] I'm Philippe.
Speaker 1:
[00:09] I'm Doug. Let's start with the news. Oh, the big news is the new Mercedes-Benz C-Class, which looks a little droopy in the front.
Speaker 3:
[00:18] There's only the electric C-Class, by the way.
Speaker 1:
[00:20] This is electric only. They haven't announced a non-electric.
Speaker 3:
[00:22] The non-electric remains the same as it currently is. That came out recently.
Speaker 1:
[00:26] Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[00:27] The internet is incensed.
Speaker 3:
[00:29] Okay, it's not the most visually appealing vehicle from the front.
Speaker 1:
[00:33] It looks like a 280 SE 3.5. It's got a low grille.
Speaker 2:
[00:36] I don't really hate the front. The rear, I know everybody is a little bit more...
Speaker 3:
[00:40] They were going for 1959 Mercedes-Benz W111.
Speaker 1:
[00:44] Well, that isn't exactly what that is. Yeah, that's the car I was talking about. That W111, that's what they were going for. They hit it.
Speaker 2:
[00:53] Look, they nailed it. Look at that thing.
Speaker 1:
[00:54] That's it. Look at that. There's a low grille.
Speaker 3:
[00:57] Yeah, that's... Sure.
Speaker 1:
[00:59] You don't see that in this? You don't see it.
Speaker 2:
[01:00] That is like...
Speaker 1:
[01:01] Go back to it. You don't see the resemblance. Let me tell you something. The famous story about this car is that Ralph Lauren, when he was a young man at Justin... You know the story. At Justin, the business world, all he wanted to do in life was own that W111, 280 SE, and he worked and he worked and he sold ties out of his trunk and he bought himself. And in today's world, the Ralph Lauren of today wants an electric C-Class.
Speaker 3:
[01:24] Yeah. It's an electric C-Class. It's their new generation of electric vehicles. The GLC electric has already been revealed. This is the sedan version of that. All the things you expect, 800-volt infrastructure. We expect about 350 miles of range. It'll come out in early 2027 is when it will be available for sale. The rear is controversial-ish, even though it looks just like the CLA EV rear. So we've seen that.
Speaker 1:
[01:46] The taillights seemed weird.
Speaker 3:
[01:48] They're a little weird. It's a C-Class, just FYI.
Speaker 1:
[01:51] Although, you know, it will be the E-Class.
Speaker 2:
[01:53] It will also be the E-Class.
Speaker 3:
[01:55] They're fine.
Speaker 1:
[01:55] There's a little bit of Nissan Skyline going on here.
Speaker 3:
[01:58] Sure. The CLA looks somewhat similar in the rear, too, with that dark bar across. The real news, though, if you go back to the slideshow, is the interior, which has many screens. So the top-level option is this huge screen that goes across the gauge cluster, the middle, and the passenger.
Speaker 1:
[02:18] Are we calling this big news? All the Mercedes are like this now.
Speaker 3:
[02:21] This is a slightly new version of that. But there are, by the way, I want to be specific, there's three options.
Speaker 1:
[02:26] Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 3:
[02:27] One of them doesn't have the passenger screen, but has a display that's not a screen, it's not like touchable, but it's a display underneath the glass. One has three standalone displays, and this one combines it all into one.
Speaker 1:
[02:40] This is how, this is how these Benzes, this is the world we live in now, dude. Pretty soon it'll be projected onto the windshield.
Speaker 3:
[02:47] It's a matter of time. I think they truly do that.
Speaker 1:
[02:49] It truly is a matter of time.
Speaker 3:
[02:49] But heads-up displays exist?
Speaker 1:
[02:51] Does anyone, yeah, but does anyone actually project like, Mercedes has that, Mercedes has that virtual reality display, but it's in the, it's not on the windshield, it's in the, it should be. But there's, well, there's been talk that like, where you turn and stuff is going to start to be projected.
Speaker 3:
[03:07] That's the thing, but like, imagine if there's no windshield at all. So like the Polestar 4, they got rid of a rear window, right? The Polestar 4 that you reviewed recently has no rear window. Why have a front window?
Speaker 1:
[03:16] This is, why have windows? This is tech bro Filippo. Here, I'm going to give you tech bro. Imagine a car, but it doesn't take you anywhere.
Speaker 2:
[03:24] Right, it's one of the eight hour meetings he goes to.
Speaker 1:
[03:26] This is Filippo. If Filippo was a tech bro in the bay, he would say that, and then the guy's sitting around and would go like, oh man, yeah!
Speaker 3:
[03:34] And for a brief moment, when we first IPO, we'll be trillionaires, and then about a minute later, we'll be back in Obby.
Speaker 1:
[03:39] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:40] They've been touting in this release a lot of like S-class things. So there's an air suspension available, there's a bunch of things that are intended to make it as luxurious as an S-class.
Speaker 1:
[03:51] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:51] Which is kind of a jersey.
Speaker 1:
[03:52] Let me tell you something. There's a fellow at my block who's got an I4. Do you know that automobile? It's a BMW.
Speaker 3:
[03:57] I know all the automobiles.
Speaker 1:
[03:59] You know all the automobiles? Did you know the mega track? Do you know the Suzuki Across?
Speaker 3:
[04:05] I do actually know the Suzuki Across. What is it? I don't remember. Ha! You know nothing! But I know all the current automobiles.
Speaker 1:
[04:10] Can I pull up a picture of the Suzuki Across and watch Filippo crumble with embarrassment?
Speaker 3:
[04:15] I'm trying to picture it.
Speaker 1:
[04:16] Crumble with embarrassment. The first thing you know.
Speaker 3:
[04:21] Yeah, the RAV4.
Speaker 1:
[04:23] Excuse me! That's a Suzuki Across, not a RAV4!
Speaker 3:
[04:27] One interesting thing, by the way, there's a 2-speed gearbox in the 2-speed.
Speaker 1:
[04:30] In the Suzuki Across, is it a 3-pedal situation? No, I want to tell you about my neighbor's I4. I got a neighbor with an I4. That is a damn good looking car.
Speaker 3:
[04:38] Yeah, also great, Liesl.
Speaker 1:
[04:39] It also drives quite well. It drives like a BMW. If I was buying a BS commuter car, I would probably buy an I4.
Speaker 3:
[04:47] Wow.
Speaker 1:
[04:48] Truly. It's pretty luxurious. The hatchback opens. It's got good cargo space. I mean, people like SUVs and I get that, but like daddy's a real... And so this is the rival to that, but it's not as good looking.
Speaker 3:
[05:01] But it will sell better, because I4 has not been a sales smash.
Speaker 1:
[05:04] Not in the States, but BMW is saying that their IX3 has been a massive sales success overseas. Yeah, the SUV thing changes things. A massive sales success overseas. They're getting more orders, they've added shifts to the factory to build as much as they can. It's an interesting thing.
Speaker 3:
[05:18] I will say, credit to Mercedes, this is a notably more compelling product than their last set of EVs. The updated infrastructure, they make their own batteries now.
Speaker 1:
[05:26] It is interesting, though, that they have-
Speaker 3:
[05:27] Their own motors, rather.
Speaker 1:
[05:28] It is interesting that they have gone with the similar styling, which was so roundly criticized last time, and that's a bit of a pun.
Speaker 3:
[05:34] It's still a little-
Speaker 1:
[05:35] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[05:36] I like that pun.
Speaker 1:
[05:37] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[05:38] How?
Speaker 1:
[05:39] Like, it's odd, right? Because the thing I like about the I4 is that it just looks like a BMW. Whereas this has, I mean, I like a good 280 SE 3.5, but I don't think you're fooling it.
Speaker 3:
[05:50] I think what you will see is that all of their products will probably go to this design language, and then it won't be the roundy ones that are EVs. They will all just look a little mediocre.
Speaker 1:
[05:59] Which is a shame. Do you agree this is an AI background? There's no way, it's got Stukart plates. This ain't Stukart, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2:
[06:06] No, it is not.
Speaker 1:
[06:07] Every building that will look like this is Stukart came down.
Speaker 3:
[06:09] I would believe that it's not photographed there.
Speaker 2:
[06:11] That 4-1 does look kind of AI, way too night.
Speaker 1:
[06:16] It's as fake as the sound that will be piped through the speakers of the new C-Class. On to the next news story, please.
Speaker 2:
[06:22] But at least it will inspire the next Ralph Laurence.
Speaker 1:
[06:23] When is that C-Class coming out?
Speaker 3:
[06:25] It will be for sale in early 2027.
Speaker 1:
[06:27] Early 27, not a long wait, Kennan. Mark your calendars. All right, move on to the 7-Series. New 7-Series was announced, and by new I mean slight refresh. We are alone in this podcast, and by we I mean me and Kennan, I don't know about him, in liking the 7-Series. The rest of the world hates it and thinks it's the stupidest, ugliest, most awful, terrible thing in the world. I think it has the presence a big sedan deserves to have. And in this era, when you're seeing all the big sedans get canceled, the XJ, the RL, the A8. It has presence. You kind of need to do something a little different.
Speaker 2:
[06:59] And it's clear they're leaning into that more, like with the pinstripe that goes down the side, similar to another luxury brand, the BMW owns.
Speaker 1:
[07:06] Two-tone even, right? The fact that they're doing two-tones. They are really leaning into creating a look of presence. And I think this new one is intended to be a little bit more... It didn't look dramatically different to me when I saw it.
Speaker 3:
[07:17] It's intended to bridge the gap to the new class styling.
Speaker 1:
[07:20] That's right.
Speaker 3:
[07:20] That's what it's supposed to be. Have you seen the tail lights? Now they're like two lines.
Speaker 1:
[07:24] Oh, there's two lines. You know, I am so glad you called that out, Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[07:28] They go further in. The real news story besides the tail lights, which I think are remarkable.
Speaker 1:
[07:32] It definitely looks interesting. They really made an effort to style this car in a way that is notable. The A8 quietly whispered itself into...
Speaker 3:
[07:42] It just passed away in the night. It did.
Speaker 1:
[07:44] It really did. It passed away in its sleep. And BMW is saying if we're gonna lean in to a full size sedan, we are not gonna let that happen. And love it or hate it, this car, when you see it on the road, it does not just look like a five series.
Speaker 3:
[07:58] And the interiors were all the big news, actually. So there's a huge, the weird screen that existed before is even bigger now. And I think you can like take Zoom meetings from it.
Speaker 2:
[08:05] Yes, you can. There's a camera in the middle and you can split it into different views. They're like, you can have a bunch of different stuff together.
Speaker 1:
[08:10] I seem to remember all that was true in the old one too.
Speaker 3:
[08:12] It was a big screen. It was a, this is a big screen.
Speaker 1:
[08:15] When I did a video of the old one in the Palm Springs, in Palm Springs, it was so hot that I don't remember anything.
Speaker 3:
[08:19] That sounds right.
Speaker 1:
[08:20] I do remember, I drove my 4GT there and the BMW engineers were so excited to see a 4GT. They were all Germans, they had never seen a 4GT before. And when I parked at the hotel, they all conglomerated around the 4GT.
Speaker 2:
[08:34] It's so wide, so low, unbelievable, they built a car like this. All five?
Speaker 3:
[08:37] What were they thinking? Other interior changes, they have the new BMW display from the new class models that has the cut edges. They have a passenger display. And then there's not a traditional gauge cluster, just like a strip on top of the dash all the way across.
Speaker 1:
[08:50] Folks, this is our number two news story this week. It's going to be a slow news week podcast. You better hope the Talk Car Segment pulls us out, people.
Speaker 2:
[08:58] I've got some Italian spies coming later on. We'll get there. We'll get there.
Speaker 3:
[09:02] All right.
Speaker 1:
[09:02] Give us our next situation. Ooh, Ford Mustang Dark Horse SC. So there's the Ford Mustang. You know that car.
Speaker 3:
[09:10] I do.
Speaker 1:
[09:10] And that comes in regular or electric SUV varieties. Right. Okay.
Speaker 3:
[09:16] And Ford distinction, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[09:17] And then there's the GT, and then there's the Dark Horse, and the regular Dark Horse has 500 horsepower, which is a significant amount of power.
Speaker 3:
[09:25] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[09:26] It's more power than anything you've ever driven.
Speaker 3:
[09:27] Yeah. That's not true, but sure.
Speaker 1:
[09:29] Yeah, I think it is. The Dark Horse SC is out now. It's two letters, Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[09:34] Two letters.
Speaker 1:
[09:34] But it's...
Speaker 3:
[09:35] By the way, not S-C.
Speaker 1:
[09:37] That was last week with that Porsche. The new Dark Horse SC makes 795 horsepower on gasoline.
Speaker 2:
[09:45] Yep.
Speaker 1:
[09:46] This isn't an electric BS, Kennan.
Speaker 2:
[09:48] That's a thrill. That's crazy.
Speaker 3:
[09:50] Remember when the Hellcat came out?
Speaker 2:
[09:51] Of course.
Speaker 3:
[09:52] And 707 was like, whoa.
Speaker 2:
[09:53] And we thought that was the end, in all honesty.
Speaker 3:
[09:55] For gas, especially.
Speaker 2:
[09:56] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. For pump gas cars. But...
Speaker 3:
[10:00] 75.
Speaker 1:
[10:01] By the way... 795. It's supercharged. 660 pound-feet of torque. Do you understand what this is?
Speaker 3:
[10:08] Yeah. It's also a hand-built engine, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:
[10:10] This is Ford throwing down. This is Ford saying, we own the Nurburgring because they had that GTD situation. We own muscle cars. The Camaro isn't even being made, I don't think, but I lost track of all that. This thing has shown up and is pounding people. No matter what Kennan ever buys, it will never be as fast as the Dark Horse SC unless he buys a Dark Horse SC.
Speaker 2:
[10:35] Yeah, so this is the victory lap for the Mustang. This is them just saying...
Speaker 3:
[10:40] Sure. It's interesting.
Speaker 2:
[10:41] Come on, take us on.
Speaker 3:
[10:42] The GTD, which is $327,000, has 20 more horsepower. Just 20 more horsepower.
Speaker 1:
[10:48] Yeah, but that's...
Speaker 3:
[10:49] It has a lot of other changes. It's mostly Canada.
Speaker 1:
[10:52] I rode in a GTD, I drove one around the Palm Springs, actually, ironically there. It was so hot, I can't remember anything, but what I do remember is that there is a window in the rear seat. You know how your car has back seats? This car has a window, and in the window, you can see the suspension.
Speaker 3:
[11:09] That is cool.
Speaker 1:
[11:10] So, that's worth the extra money.
Speaker 3:
[11:11] Yeah, the SC, by the way, they announced a couple weeks ago that it's 1-0-3-5 pre-tax, pre-destination for a base SC.
Speaker 1:
[11:20] What did the GT500 used to cost?
Speaker 3:
[11:22] Right around 80 grand.
Speaker 1:
[11:23] 80 grand. So this is like the successor of the GT500. The GT500, though, never had 795 horsepower.
Speaker 3:
[11:31] No, the GT500 had a mere...
Speaker 1:
[11:33] 760. Yeah. But this really is like, this takes over. So we were all wondering why we're not getting Shelby cars. The answer is we have the Dark Horse instead. The regular Dark Horse, I guess, is the GT350 replacement, and this is like a... Why are we not using Shelby's name anymore? We don't know.
Speaker 3:
[11:47] For a brief moment, there was a proposal to rename the street in front of their headquarters, which is Shelby Way or something like that, to something else. There was like a proposal to have like Maverick Drive and... I actually think it was Maverick Trail, because that's more fitting. Speaking of the Maverick... By the way, they've said they're not doing that. It's still Shelby Road.
Speaker 1:
[12:05] Speaking of the Maverick, I have a neighbor... I have a neighbor there with a Maverick, you know. And boy, what a great car.
Speaker 3:
[12:11] I've had three friends in the last week, the last two days, out of the blue, texting me and saying, hey, what do you think of the Maverick?
Speaker 1:
[12:17] Why don't we all have Mavericks?
Speaker 3:
[12:19] I know.
Speaker 1:
[12:19] It's hybrid, it's four-wheel drive, it's a pickup, it's a car, it's comfortable, it's haulable.
Speaker 3:
[12:24] We should.
Speaker 1:
[12:25] It gets 40 miles per gallon, it costs $12,000.
Speaker 3:
[12:28] No, but it is a really appealing price.
Speaker 1:
[12:29] Some of that stuff's not true, but I'll tell you something.
Speaker 3:
[12:31] It's not that far off.
Speaker 1:
[12:32] The Slate and the Maverick... Okay, what's our next news story?
Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[15:27] Oh, the new Nissan XTERRA. Okay, according to Filippo, Nissan announced pricing for the new XTERRA. That's not really what happened. Nissan told people that the new XTERRA, when it comes, which is years from now, the new XTERRA will have a starting price under 40,000 in the United States. Under 40,000. Now, if I'm an automaker and I'm thinking about making price predictions, I would wait until pretty soon before, because this has happened before. When Rivian said what Rivians would cost, and the day they released the Rivian, tried to jack it up, and people were so mad they had to jack it back down.
Speaker 2:
[16:00] And Tesla has happened before. I mean, it's happened a lot.
Speaker 1:
[16:02] Who knows what will happen? What if there's a COVID and there becomes a shortage of yellow glowing LEDs?
Speaker 3:
[16:11] They'd be really screwed.
Speaker 1:
[16:12] This and the Honda Passport are screwed!
Speaker 3:
[16:15] Imagine no red tow hooks.
Speaker 1:
[16:17] Oh. No. I am so pumped for this Xterra.
Speaker 3:
[16:20] I am too. They've made clear, by the way, that this is going to be a pretty stripped out car that has everything you need and nothing you don't.
Speaker 1:
[16:26] Yeah. That's what the old one was.
Speaker 3:
[16:27] They also want to say we've lost our way a bit, putting a lot of technology in our cars for the sake of it, adding a lot of features. We're going to stop doing that.
Speaker 1:
[16:34] Well, I mean, that's odd to hear from Nissan because the last Nissan I had, the backup camera was about three pixels. But I do like the idea of a back to base car, particularly when the 4Runner, I think has left a little bit of a slot open in the market for something to come in sort of at the lower end, a little bit simpler, a little bit more basic, where the 4Runner has now gone hybrid. The top trim levels are $80,000. There is definitely an option here.
Speaker 3:
[17:02] 4Runner starts at about $44,000, just a little bit more than that.
Speaker 1:
[17:05] Starts at $44,000.
Speaker 3:
[17:05] Well, this will start below $40,000. $39,999.
Speaker 1:
[17:09] Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[17:10] Which is fine. Also, we should be clear, stripped out cars at this point because of federal mandates and consumer preferences all have automatic emergency braking, all have backup cameras, all have some power features generally. Like, it's not a stripped out car that the 90s had.
Speaker 1:
[17:25] And you know what's annoying? Because you're on the trail, you know what I mean? And a rock is in front of you and you're trying to go over the rock and then an automatic emergency brakes.
Speaker 2:
[17:33] That is irritating.
Speaker 3:
[17:34] Never had that happen.
Speaker 2:
[17:34] I've run into that many a time.
Speaker 1:
[17:35] You're never on a trail with a car with AEB. I got a Sequoia.
Speaker 3:
[17:38] Well, you turn it off.
Speaker 1:
[17:39] I'm going to talk more about my Sequoia.
Speaker 3:
[17:40] Most trail modes turn those off.
Speaker 1:
[17:42] I don't participate in trail mode. I just get out there and raw dog it. Let's go. I don't switch modes. I don't even put it in four wheel.
Speaker 2:
[17:50] Wow. You're a real man.
Speaker 1:
[17:53] New Xterra is a long way off. What are this? Didn't they say 28?
Speaker 3:
[17:55] I believe so. Yeah, in late 28.
Speaker 1:
[17:58] Late 28. Hey, we're only two and a half years away.
Speaker 3:
[18:01] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[18:02] Great.
Speaker 3:
[18:02] Yeah. But we know pricing, unless inflation is really rampant. And then who knows?
Speaker 1:
[18:07] This is the problem with car development cycles. It's laughable that they already know it's going to look like this and it's going to take them two and a half years to come to market. How could that possibly be? It is silly.
Speaker 3:
[18:21] It's a brand new platform, and unlike some manufacturers, they want to test it first.
Speaker 1:
[18:25] You're calling out Tesla? Let me tell you something about... Yeah, you are. Let me tell you something about Tesla. You know how many cars Tesla has sold?
Speaker 3:
[18:30] So many.
Speaker 1:
[18:30] All of them. I was at the tennis club today and there's a pickleball tournament going on. Can you imagine how many boomers are driving Teslas to a pickleball tournament? It's like all... It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3:
[18:43] Was it all new model-wise?
Speaker 1:
[18:44] Yeah, it's all model-wise. I don't know if they're new. This is California. A lot of the boomers have moved off Tesla out in California, but you get my point. They've sold all the cars. Have they done the proper testing? No. Has it mattered? No. Nobody cares.
Speaker 3:
[18:58] True.
Speaker 2:
[19:00] It reminds me a lot of the iPhone. When the iPhone came out, it's like you preorder on Friday, you get it the following week. It's like if you're going to tease something, then you have to be able to deliver on it right away.
Speaker 1:
[19:08] It's unbelievable to me that they feel they can tease this and then wait three years.
Speaker 3:
[19:13] If they don't tease something, they may not exist by 2020. They have to start the drip now.
Speaker 2:
[19:18] It's too late. Make the thing.
Speaker 1:
[19:20] It's so silly. It's so silly. Tesla will come out with a refresh and have it on the production line four weeks later. And Nissan's two and a half years, it's already taken them 13 years to figure out that they need to be back in this market. They're going to wait another two and a half years of sales to the 400?
Speaker 3:
[19:36] What happened? They listened to the podcast. They heard you say, hey, Nissan, you need to build this.
Speaker 1:
[19:40] And they were like, you're right.
Speaker 3:
[19:42] But instead of hearing about that for the next two years and then revealing it, they thought they'd get better in Doug PR if they just...
Speaker 1:
[19:48] I'm going to give you a new idea, Nissan. Come out with a stopgap, Xterra, and here's how you do it. You take a Frontier Crew Cab, you put a body on the back, and that's it. And for two years, that can be our Xterra and we'll be fine with it. We don't care. It'll be a sucky car. No one cares. Come out with it and come out with it by June 1st. What's today?
Speaker 3:
[20:10] Today is April 22nd.
Speaker 1:
[20:12] If I was the fellow running Nissan now, this fella, that's what I would do.
Speaker 3:
[20:17] Maybe there's a reason you're not the fellow running Nissan.
Speaker 1:
[20:20] I promise you things would be going better if I was. It can't be going worse!
Speaker 3:
[20:24] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[20:26] What's next? Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:
[20:28] All right. So GM has announced that they're putting on hold and maybe just fully canceling their next generation of EVs. We're familiar with the Hummer EV and the Silverado EV, et cetera.
Speaker 1:
[20:39] Full size.
Speaker 3:
[20:39] Is this just SUVs? Electric trucks, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[20:42] Trucks.
Speaker 3:
[20:43] The bull just came out.
Speaker 1:
[20:45] Okay, so the Lightning was just canceled. I read a news report in Bloomberg this week that 20% of Cybertruck sales are to the other Elon Musk companies.
Speaker 3:
[20:53] Yep. That's great.
Speaker 2:
[20:55] That's beautiful.
Speaker 3:
[20:56] Clearly, there has not been super strong demand for this, but they were pretty deep in planning for the next gen of the Ultium platform and the trucks. Suppliers were building things and they all got a notice saying, just put this on hold.
Speaker 1:
[21:08] The full size electric pickup segment that was so promising three years ago when we were all fighting to see what would come first, the R1T or the Hummer EV or the Lightning or the Cybertruck, that's completely gone dry, it has completely failed, and no one is interested in any of them.
Speaker 3:
[21:26] Yep, pretty much. It's interesting, so EVs in the US are just increasingly dying. I will say market share ticked up in March, gas was expensive, people bought EVs, but it was still a slower market share than last March when they were in sentence. In Europe though, which fuels the fuel crisis, the fuel crisis as a result of the Iran War, more strongly, they don't produce any real amount of gasoline, they have some real fuel concerns. Yes, they don't produce oil, they don't extract oil, and also don't have very much gasoline production from that. Both are true. Their EV sales in March were up 50% Oh!
Speaker 1:
[22:04] I was driving, I was thinking about this the other day. Someday, we're all going to be in a situation, in life, we're all going to be in the nursing home, me and Filippo will, Kennan will still be out there doing, Kennan is M5, and we'll be thinking to ourselves, I can't believe there was a time when a soccer mom at soccer practice had little explosions happening in her engine, it is so weird. However, in America, that time is still now, and holy crap, we are so behind on this. I'm telling you, China will take over the world because of this, all the people who are sitting here being like, America, we like our gas engines, in 20 years, it's going to be such a shame.
Speaker 3:
[22:43] The market is moving in a really specific direction because a lot of people don't want that reliance on fossil fuels, and the US is going to be so far behind. Now, we're killing the full size pickup truck. Okay.
Speaker 1:
[22:56] Maybe, but it would be nice if electric vehicles were adopted at every market.
Speaker 3:
[22:59] And better, and like actually competitive, and I really, really worry that the American manufacturers will absolutely not be. I don't think Chrysler is, or Stellantis in the US is working on US market EVs outside of the Charger.
Speaker 1:
[23:10] Well, Stellantis is a whole other thing.
Speaker 3:
[23:12] I don't think that GM is really working on much except for the Bolt, which theoretically will have a new generation, but will it? Who knows? Ford isn't working on that much that's competitive.
Speaker 1:
[23:20] Now wait a minute, Ford in Cologne builds that little...
Speaker 3:
[23:23] Yeah, they also have the small pickup truck that's coming, it's supposed to be like a cheaper truck on a new EV platform. But nevertheless, like it really feels like they won't be competitive, and that will be a long-term mistake.
Speaker 2:
[23:33] I just go back to our conversation with RJ Scrinch talking about that, and like, he's right. I think like if you... It's short-sighted to think that this isn't going to happen in the future. It's without question the way things are going. Like, I just, I don't fully understand why American manufacturers are burning their heads. I guess the demand isn't there right now.
Speaker 1:
[23:50] Because American manufacturers cannot sell in great numbers outside of America, and Americans don't want it. And so, you know, that's the situation.
Speaker 2:
[23:59] So, maybe the plan...
Speaker 1:
[24:01] The legacy American manufacturer.
Speaker 2:
[24:02] Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:
[24:04] I do wonder, right, like, fuel is relatively... Gas in the US is relatively expensive, about $4 a gallon on average in March.
Speaker 1:
[24:09] You're thinking, switching to EV.
Speaker 3:
[24:11] I wonder how many people are going to start thinking about that as they transition to their next car.
Speaker 1:
[24:15] May I suggest a BMW i4?
Speaker 2:
[24:18] It is a good thing you just got a pickup truck from 1973. It's really fuel efficient.
Speaker 1:
[24:22] You know what I passed on the interstate freeway here in my career duty on the way in today? I passed an iXM60.
Speaker 3:
[24:28] Wow. The grill self-heals.
Speaker 1:
[24:32] The grill self-heals. Did we report on that car being canceled? I think last week we covered it. That's gone, folks. If you wanted it on iX and you didn't, it's gone. However, I did pass an M60 on the freeway. And I think I go between M60 sightings. Yeah, it's a V12. I think I go between M60 sightings the same length of time as I go between like F355 on the road sightings. Don't you agree?
Speaker 3:
[24:55] Yes, similar.
Speaker 1:
[24:56] Because it's like a least-deal car and that's like the most expensive one.
Speaker 3:
[24:59] Even I don't notice which iX trim I'm behind.
Speaker 1:
[25:02] You don't see that big badge and think, wow, this dude cannot accelerate me?
Speaker 3:
[25:06] No, but that's true of all of the iX's.
Speaker 1:
[25:08] All right, this is the situation. Move on to the next story. Morty V is dying.
Speaker 2:
[25:13] Ah, yes. So this is a Lambo. This is allegedly going to be the Lamborghini Rivalto SV. So these are some teaser shots of a spot of testing in Italy. And we can only assume that it's going to be. Now Filippo, who speaks Italian, you see, attenzione, magina, veloce, which means attention, fast car, which is hilarious. But some things to note with this, this is the rear obviously, but they've added a wing, which is a typical SV thing. They've made more aggressive aerotrains just to the front. We don't really have any other details outside of that. We have some vague understanding of what it might look like.
Speaker 1:
[25:44] The word is 1200 horse.
Speaker 2:
[25:46] Well, we'll see. That's definitely not confirmed. I mean, the normal car has a 6.5 liter V12 with a 1000. So you imagine a 200 horsepower is a lot, but I wouldn't be surprised if that bump is there.
Speaker 1:
[25:57] But the word, dude, this is going to be cool.
Speaker 2:
[26:00] I know it is. All the SV models are cool.
Speaker 1:
[26:02] Aventador, or whatever this is called, is so... Revuelto is so cool.
Speaker 2:
[26:08] No, I'm serious.
Speaker 1:
[26:09] It is so, it is such a cool car.
Speaker 2:
[26:12] I know.
Speaker 1:
[26:13] So much more than SF90.
Speaker 2:
[26:14] Right, and the normal one is just astonishing. So this is going to be just below everybody's mind, even better. But I'm excited. I mean, it's always cool when an SV version comes out.
Speaker 1:
[26:25] What was your favorite SV Lambo?
Speaker 2:
[26:27] This is the Mercy SV.
Speaker 1:
[26:29] Not the Countach?
Speaker 2:
[26:31] There was no Countach SV.
Speaker 1:
[26:33] It was the only one that didn't have one.
Speaker 2:
[26:34] That's right. Well, the Diablo SV is really good.
Speaker 1:
[26:38] But you know what they did give us on the Countach instead? The anniversary.
Speaker 2:
[26:41] Oh yeah, that was a worthwhile trade-off. That hideous looking thing, not Hiroshita Pagani's finest work. Yeah, heinous thing. But no, well the Mira SV is really good.
Speaker 1:
[26:54] No, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:
[26:55] The Mercy SV is the best.
Speaker 1:
[26:57] It's super limited. It came out like peak recession. Like Bear Stearns was collapsing and Lambo was like, we got a $600,000 car for you.
Speaker 2:
[27:07] Exactly. And, you know, man, that thing is just so cool.
Speaker 1:
[27:11] Fulipo, you ever think about wanting one of these?
Speaker 3:
[27:13] No.
Speaker 1:
[27:13] No.
Speaker 3:
[27:14] It is cool though.
Speaker 1:
[27:14] There's not a moment in your life when it hits you like, hey, this is cool.
Speaker 3:
[27:19] No, I said it's cool.
Speaker 1:
[27:21] There's not a moment where you're driving around in your bad wheel Targa and you're thinking, this could be me in this Lambo.
Speaker 3:
[27:29] I remember when we hosted one on Cars and Bits a couple of years ago. It's so cool.
Speaker 1:
[27:33] Yeah, it is. We did host one. Did you know that, Kennan?
Speaker 2:
[27:37] I vaguely remember that car.
Speaker 3:
[27:39] We also had a, there you go.
Speaker 1:
[27:40] It was in Canada, I think.
Speaker 3:
[27:41] It was indeed.
Speaker 2:
[27:42] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[27:43] So cool.
Speaker 2:
[27:44] 700,000. What are those cars worth now? About a million probably?
Speaker 1:
[27:46] Yeah, the tips still look crazy.
Speaker 2:
[27:48] For the tips, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[27:49] They're not that crazy considering how low production it was. Right.
Speaker 2:
[27:53] Very cool. But nonetheless, this is what the next one will kind of look like. I think the camo is, I love that Lamborghini like leaned it, like most of the time the camo looks the same on all these cars. In this case, they went for fire and telling everybody, look out, it's fast.
Speaker 1:
[28:04] And attention fast car. So this car went into production in summer of 23. So an SV is probably a year out. You figure it's going to be another 10, 12 year life cycle, like all the big Lambos. Yeah, probably. So this is an SV, SVJ, et cetera. The whole situation comes out.
Speaker 2:
[28:18] Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[28:19] But it's, it's, it's, it's cool. It's exciting.
Speaker 2:
[28:22] It's really exciting.
Speaker 1:
[28:23] It was well though scrambled.
Speaker 3:
[28:24] That's right. This episode is also brought to you by Claude, the AI from Anthropic, a COO of Cars and Bids. Claude has quietly become one of the most useful tools across our entire company, product, auctions, operations. What I've personally found most valuable is using it as a thinking partner on complicated operational problems. I walk through the situation, it pushes back, it asks the right questions, and I come out with a decision that I actually trust. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's a collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at night or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. One feature that is worth calling out, if you connect Claude with the tools you already use, Notion, Google Workspace, your email, your calendar, it suddenly has context in all of your stuff. No more copying and pasting, uploading between a dozen tabs. It starts to feel like a central brain for your work. Ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Claude today at claude.ai/cars. That's claude.ai/cars. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. claude.ai/cars. If you're bidding on cars and bids, whether it's a pristine 90s JDM icon, a high horsepower resto mod, or some weird modern classic, my favorite, you already know that these aren't just used cars. We love them like family. And that's exactly why regular car insurance just doesn't cut it. And that's why Hagerty is the official insurance provider of cars and bids. They also insure all of my fun cars. They're enthusiasts who happen to sell insurance, and they actually understand what makes these cars special. Hagerty offers guaranteed value coverage, which means you agree on your car's value upfront. If there's a total loss, that's exactly what you get. There's no depreciation, there's no arguing, there's no guessing games. And they also make claims painless. Their adjusters actually know classic and collector cars. You can choose your own specialty shop, or get paid to do the work yourself. And unlike standard policies, Hagerty understands that these cars are meant to be driven, whether that's on a weekend cruise, a Cars and Coffee run, or a road trip for ice cream, without restrictive mileage limits. If you're mid-build, they've got you covered too. Hagerty's vehicle under construction coverage automatically increases your insured value by 10% every quarter. So your policy keeps up with your progress. Plus, you get Hagerty Driver's Club with flatbed roadside assistance, valuation tools, and their award-winning magazine. So when you win your next auction, protected the right way. Click through from the auction listing itself, or visit hagerty.com for a quote today. Hagerty never stops driving.
Speaker 1:
[31:07] Scramble!
Speaker 2:
[31:08] Alright, moving on. Another Italian manufacturer, so the Ferrari Luce. So the Luce, we've had a lot of stuff coming out about this recently. I actually watched a video going through the interior talking about all the little components. It's really cool. This is the interior?
Speaker 1:
[31:19] But what's in the background? Is this the interior of a helicopter flying over a village?
Speaker 2:
[31:23] So in the studio in which all of this is happening, there's a studio you go to where Johnny Ive shows all of, like an Apple product studio, basically.
Speaker 1:
[31:31] Because it looks like we're driving a gondola. Do you agree?
Speaker 2:
[31:34] I think we're in a hot air balloon, we're in a Zeph one. These are the controls.
Speaker 3:
[31:38] 210 kilometers per hour, so.
Speaker 1:
[31:39] It's ironic because that's kind of how people feel about this car, you know? Like it's an electric be... anyway, what's the news?
Speaker 2:
[31:47] Which I have some thoughts on that which I'll come back to in a second, but the announcement is the Bloomberg claims they got from an insider, a hint into the pricing of this car. Now the car is going to come out next month in an event in Rome, and we'll find out for sure, but they're saying it's going to be about $650,000, which is starting, which is an awful lot for an EV. Even a Ferrari 650 is a lot. And you have to imagine with options, most of these are going to be $3.25 million.
Speaker 3:
[32:11] I mean, look, it's at the £100,000. They have, for some reason, they're quoting this.
Speaker 1:
[32:15] It's going to be £100,000. It's so much electric, it's so heavy. You think the Revuelto is heavy? Wait for the Luce!
Speaker 2:
[32:22] Hold my beer.
Speaker 3:
[32:23] The 650 comes from £550,000, and in that same market, the Protosan goes £450,000. So, £100,000, $150,000. More than a Protosan.
Speaker 1:
[32:32] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[32:33] That's a lot.
Speaker 1:
[32:34] If they attempt to sell an electric sports car at $650,000, I think even Ferrari has met its match. How do they not understand that the SF90 is already a terrible seller?
Speaker 3:
[32:47] What about the Pininfarina...
Speaker 1:
[32:49] Batista?
Speaker 3:
[32:50] Yeah, what's MSRP on that?
Speaker 1:
[32:51] Two and a half.
Speaker 3:
[32:52] Two and a half.
Speaker 1:
[32:53] And you know how those are selling?
Speaker 3:
[32:54] They're cutting that by about two million dollars.
Speaker 2:
[32:56] Let me calculate.
Speaker 1:
[32:57] You know how many of those have sold? Zero.
Speaker 3:
[33:00] Zero.
Speaker 1:
[33:02] No one has bought one.
Speaker 3:
[33:03] When you cut the price in thirds, you get closer.
Speaker 2:
[33:07] No.
Speaker 1:
[33:08] Now that the volume...
Speaker 2:
[33:08] They multiply by zero.
Speaker 1:
[33:09] The Pininfarina and Batista, I think they wanted to sell a hundred. At the volume, they're going to want to sell this thing close. The SF90 gives you an insight into how customers want to be electric cars to be in their lives. And the answer is they don't. SF90s are 650 stickers, they are selling on the used market for half price. You know, the one thing that is not talked about enough in Luca, with Luca di Montezemolo...
Speaker 2:
[33:32] Our Lord and Savior.
Speaker 1:
[33:34] Our Lord and Savior.
Speaker 2:
[33:35] Luca di Montezemolo.
Speaker 1:
[33:36] Is that in addition to doing a lot of beneficial things for Ferrari, he actually got supply and demand correct. And he's gone. And within only a few years, supply and demand is already going on the bad side of private equity. Do you know what I'm saying? Just build more of them. It's going to work. Well, it isn't. And when we were kids, you couldn't get a Ferrari. The resale market was high. The buyer market was high. It was like it was annoying for customers, but for the company and for the brand, it was great. Well, now the cars are depreciating. They have more cars than customers. And suddenly, obviously, the brand hasn't eroded yet. But you come up with a $650,000 electric car and you start to wonder if that starts to occur.
Speaker 2:
[34:18] I would not be surprised. To be clear, I think as far as the electric car stuff goes, I think the idea of re-styling the interior and having someone do this stuff properly, who is an actually good engineer and with great style, makes a lot of sense. Ferrari interiors, we haven't changed that much since the 458, if we're honest. They really haven't changed.
Speaker 1:
[34:34] Well, the full screen thing showed up. The giant full screen thing came up in the robots.
Speaker 2:
[34:38] Yeah, but it's still a little bit derivative of its past. It hasn't been something very, very new in a while. And I think all this stuff is really cool and it feels nice and like, is the quality for our ship.
Speaker 1:
[34:50] I have no comment on the interior. Couldn't care less. I'm very excited to see the car, what it looks like, how it performs in the price point. And if it's 650 for an electric.
Speaker 2:
[34:58] I know, that's a hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 1:
[34:59] A Plaid can do zero to 60 in one. And we're selling them every day for 22.
Speaker 3:
[35:03] But then you're going for style, right? I think that it was the right decision to lean into Kennan's point, like a well-reputed beloved designer to design the exterior and the interior.
Speaker 1:
[35:15] Had better look more beautiful than anything that's come out of Italy since the Sistine Chapel was finished.
Speaker 3:
[35:21] I do wonder, the SF90 tried to combine a lot of things pretty early, right? Tried to combine a hybrid and still having a gas engine and a new interior. And that was maybe too much. But I wonder about a full EV where you're attracting a different buyer base.
Speaker 1:
[35:36] You're right. The problem with the SF90 is the gas power train. That's why it's not selling. It's the gas power train.
Speaker 3:
[35:44] There's a combination between them, but you know.
Speaker 1:
[35:46] You're right. They combine too many things. Let's strip it down to the basics. Get rid of that pesky engine.
Speaker 3:
[35:51] Yeah, who does that?
Speaker 1:
[35:53] The 911STs are selling for $750. Do you know what car will never sell for $750 after it's initially sold to its first owner, who, by the way, will be the dealer? The Luce.
Speaker 3:
[36:06] Probably.
Speaker 2:
[36:07] You're probably right.
Speaker 3:
[36:09] We'll see. We'll find out. But it might be beautiful.
Speaker 1:
[36:11] Many years ago, I got a Ferrari press car, and it's never gonna happen again. But you know what? I love that 296.
Speaker 3:
[36:17] And you like the 12th cylinder?
Speaker 1:
[36:20] I love the 12th cylinder. I'm glad you're saying it the correct way.
Speaker 3:
[36:23] I totally took a lot of restraint.
Speaker 1:
[36:25] I love the 296. I love the PuroSign way. I think it's haine, but it drives amazingly.
Speaker 2:
[36:31] It's got a V12.
Speaker 1:
[36:32] Yeah. And it just, the steering, it just feels so good. The SF90 is an abomination. The SP3 changed our lives.
Speaker 2:
[36:40] It did.
Speaker 1:
[36:42] SP3 was my car of the year a couple of years ago. It's usually like a Tesla.
Speaker 2:
[36:46] No, it deserves it. Like that car is very notable in our lives. Wish it weren't called the Daytona, but other than that, it was really cool.
Speaker 1:
[36:54] F80 coming. You excited for that?
Speaker 2:
[36:56] You know, when we saw it in person in Monterey, I liked it a lot more than I thought I was going to. And I would be really curious, like, I'm really curious because I'm not going to get to drive them before you, but your thoughts about, I'm sure it's amazing. But you know, I would rather have an S3 Daytona.
Speaker 1:
[37:10] You know what car I did really love was that SF90XX? Like really love.
Speaker 2:
[37:14] I was surprised that you liked it so much.
Speaker 1:
[37:15] So was I. I was going into it thinking I got to do this. And then I came out of it like, well I got to get one of those.
Speaker 2:
[37:20] Maybe it's because your expectations were so rock bottom.
Speaker 1:
[37:23] No. There, it's, I am not a person who likes raw cars in mentally, but then I actually, I really mostly do like raw cars. Like I drove that 340R and I was like, this is so cool!
Speaker 3:
[37:36] To be fair, it is.
Speaker 1:
[37:37] It really is. And what I really want is a P1 GTR. If I had crazy money, I would do two things. I would never talk to him again. And I would say, P1 GTR.
Speaker 2:
[37:47] You love saying this. I don't know why that's the thing that you could just stop talking to if you want it to.
Speaker 1:
[37:51] We get entanglements, we got our wives, we got the business.
Speaker 2:
[37:54] That doesn't go away with money. No, no.
Speaker 1:
[37:56] If I had crazy money, I would disentangle and be like, Filippo, you're gone.
Speaker 3:
[38:01] It'd be worth it at that point.
Speaker 2:
[38:03] So you're saying you'd pay him to stop speaking to him?
Speaker 1:
[38:05] No, I just.
Speaker 2:
[38:06] He says this a lot.
Speaker 1:
[38:09] I would just be like, Filippo, you're out. I have so much money that you're out. If you see me in my P1 GTR, wave to me as I drive.
Speaker 3:
[38:19] I would accept money to not engage. So I'm going to consider.
Speaker 1:
[38:22] How much?
Speaker 3:
[38:23] Not much.
Speaker 2:
[38:24] So you know, he will start bothering you more unless you pay him.
Speaker 3:
[38:26] That's an interesting take.
Speaker 2:
[38:28] He knows where you live.
Speaker 1:
[38:29] Are there more news stories?
Speaker 2:
[38:31] No, that is the end.
Speaker 1:
[38:31] All right, we have to move on.
Speaker 2:
[38:33] I wore the same pair of glasses for way too long. Scratched up lenses, bent frames, a prescription that was probably two years out of date. I kept putting them off, replacing them, because the whole process felt like such a hassle. Go to an optician, wait around, pick up from a limited selection, and get upsold on stuff you don't need, and drop $400 before you even walk out the door. Warby Parker completely flipped that. The first thing that got me was the virtual try-on. You literally point your phone at your face and try on frames in real time. Not janky, it actually works. And even producer Sean is loving his Warby Parker sunglasses. Look at him rocking those wonderful fitting glasses on his big chrome domus. Prescription glasses start at just 95 bucks. And the quality is premium. You can really feel it. They've got contacts, sunglasses, online eye exams, 300 plus stores if you want to go in person. And for every pair sold, they give a pair to someone in need. Over 20 million pairs donated. Hard to not feel good about that. And right now, buy one prescription pair and get 20% off any additional pairs at warbyparker.com. That's 20% off additional prescription pairs when you go to warbyparker.com/c-a-r-s.
Speaker 1:
[39:56] Today to the Top Cars segment, which is brought to you by my Toyota Sequoia.
Speaker 3:
[40:02] Wow, we're back to it. Are we on or off the Sequoia?
Speaker 1:
[40:05] I gotta get out of this car.
Speaker 3:
[40:06] What happened?
Speaker 1:
[40:07] All right, me and Sean today are at a gas station filming God knows what. And a Sequoia TRD PRO rolls in.
Speaker 3:
[40:17] Nice, what color?
Speaker 1:
[40:18] And it has a vanity plate. They all have vanity plates.
Speaker 3:
[40:21] So does yours.
Speaker 1:
[40:21] It was black. And it has a roof tent. Oh, and I'm like, and it's, and the guy had changed out the Falcon Wild Peaks for Toyos. He had already up tired. I'm like, Oh God, and it comes in and it's so, didn't you also up tire? Huh?
Speaker 3:
[40:36] Didn't you also up tire?
Speaker 1:
[40:37] No, I got to wait. So I'm like, okay. And then he, and I said to Sean, he said, this guy's going to get out and be the most like tatted up flat brim hat, like, like hardcore MAGA bro. And he gets out and he is literally wearing a shirt with an American flag on it that says freedom.
Speaker 2:
[40:55] And I'm like, God bless, brother.
Speaker 1:
[40:58] And I want to be clear on this podcast, we don't do politics and I don't care about the Republicans. They can do as they wish, but the car is so far towards that. It's the same reason why I don't want to drive a Honda Clarity in the other direction. Too far the other way. I don't want a caution driver singing bumper sticker. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I don't want to be stereotyped to the point where I'm getting out with Sequoia TRD PRO and I'm wearing a freedom shirt. Like, come on!
Speaker 2:
[41:26] Man, I know what you're getting you for your birthday now.
Speaker 1:
[41:29] I got to get out of this car. So here's my plan. You're going to love this plan.
Speaker 3:
[41:33] I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:
[41:34] I'm still looking for an AMG, an old AMG station wagon. Rami is looking for me. Inbound Motorsports Rami. My heart and soul is Rami. He hasn't found one for me yet. We're still looking. Here's my plan. This is a Filippo style plan. I got to drive this Sequoia to Nantucket this year. It's too late in the season to make a change. Sell it. I get back in middle August. Sell it instantly.
Speaker 3:
[41:56] You don't need a car for nine months. You don't need a car.
Speaker 1:
[41:59] I never used that car in the winter. Nine months drive my station. When it's time to go again, we buy an LX700H.
Speaker 3:
[42:10] For the record, this is exactly the plan that we laid out in October of last year.
Speaker 1:
[42:14] We're doing it!
Speaker 3:
[42:16] I found you one.
Speaker 1:
[42:17] You know what? I've been going on Autotrader. They haven't depreciated. We were looking in January. We were looking in January and then the car mom did that thing where she showed that it's horrible with car seats and I completely lost interest. I literally haven't checked prices until two days ago. They're the same!
Speaker 3:
[42:31] I do want you to be aware, it hasn't gotten better for car seats in that time.
Speaker 1:
[42:35] No, it hasn't and it's not any cheaper and it's still bad. And I think that a lot of the ones that are selling used are probably getting exported, which is why I suspect that prices are not particularly, going particularly lower. But I gotta get out of this Sequoia.
Speaker 2:
[42:48] I really like this plan. Because I hate your Sequoia, I really hate it. There's another one in the neighborhood that's just so embarrassing.
Speaker 1:
[42:55] Why is it so rumbly?
Speaker 2:
[42:56] It's just because...
Speaker 3:
[42:59] Can you tune that out?
Speaker 2:
[42:59] People want that.
Speaker 1:
[43:01] If I could tune that out and maybe swap the... I've been looking for a wheel option since I bought it. I send wheel options to the group.
Speaker 2:
[43:08] I know, you do.
Speaker 3:
[43:09] Do I know it?
Speaker 2:
[43:10] We've all gotten tired of it. The camo and the gun locker. It's just like a nice thing.
Speaker 1:
[43:15] The camo, it's too much. It's too much.
Speaker 2:
[43:19] I will not be sad when that hideous, massive thing disappears from our lives.
Speaker 3:
[43:23] We all agree the worst part is the giant Toyota on the...
Speaker 2:
[43:26] No, there's a lot of bad... That's bad.
Speaker 3:
[43:28] Somehow that's the worst for me.
Speaker 1:
[43:30] The thing about the LX is, that's so great, it's triple locked. Okay, the first triple locked Toyota since the E80 series.
Speaker 3:
[43:37] I told you raw dog it though, so like, why do you need that?
Speaker 1:
[43:39] It's triple locked and you know what it doesn't do? Tell anybody. You would have no clue what that car is. Whereas the Sequoia TRD Pro, which is also exceptionally good off road, just has to shout it to everybody. Like the MAGA Republican car that it is. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:
[43:57] No, I mean it is.
Speaker 1:
[43:58] And so, I can't do it, I have to move on.
Speaker 2:
[44:02] Well, thank goodness.
Speaker 3:
[44:03] Finally. We're not gonna go down that road, don't worry. Eventually, maybe they'll actually have the trim packages you want though.
Speaker 1:
[44:09] I only want another 700.
Speaker 3:
[44:10] I was next to a Z71 Suburban yesterday, like a new post-sales left.
Speaker 1:
[44:14] They don't have Super Cruise. The Suburban still doesn't have Super Cruise or Z71, you have to choose between the two. The Yukon, you can get an AT4 and Super Cruise.
Speaker 3:
[44:24] There you go.
Speaker 1:
[44:25] I want a car that lasts. Because, I will own it for two to two and a half years.
Speaker 3:
[44:32] Hey Toyota, if you want to make a more, a triple locked Sienna, you gotta buy her.
Speaker 1:
[44:36] Oh my God. If I could buy a triple locked Sienna, I am not screwing with you. I would buy it tomorrow. But, my plan is, sell the thing in the fall, drive my new station wagon that Rami will find me until the spring, and then by then, this is a year from now, you gotta assume that LX Overtrail values have gotten into like 94, 92.
Speaker 3:
[44:54] Yeah, down from 97, yep.
Speaker 1:
[44:57] Well, that's not nothing. I know in your world, four grand is meaningless, but to people like me and Kennan.
Speaker 3:
[45:02] Well, your Sequoia would depreciate notably, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:
[45:05] The Sequoia, I think though, it's nine months of depreciation, I don't have to suffer in the Sequoia. And I can benefit from it in the LX. We're gonna do this. You're committed that though, that in March we gotta find an LX Overtrail.
Speaker 3:
[45:16] Of next year, yeah, you bet. Depend on whether you pay me to not talk to you or not. We'll see what happens. Got a year.
Speaker 1:
[45:23] Okay, that's my talk cars. Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[45:26] We've got a few.
Speaker 1:
[45:27] I'm a little nervous about some of them, but go ahead.
Speaker 3:
[45:30] All right, I'm gonna start on a personal note here. We've been talking a lot about 911s. We've become a Porsche podcast.
Speaker 1:
[45:34] This is the sports car, not the terrorist attack, the sports car.
Speaker 2:
[45:38] Not that awful, Doug.
Speaker 3:
[45:40] Go ahead, the Porsche 911. I could talk about how it drove with LA twice in the last week, but my wife has told me that we talked too much about Porsches on this podcast and that people may have forgotten that I'm not really that guy. I'm not into expensive cars, generally. And so she told me a couple of nights ago that I should buy a Saab, pull-up Saabs, that I should buy a cheap Saab. Now, little does she know that I've been looking at them on Facebook Marketplace a lot.
Speaker 1:
[46:03] Well, actually...
Speaker 3:
[46:03] Because that's where the worst ones are.
Speaker 1:
[46:05] For all 12 years I've known you, you've been looking for cheap Saabs on Facebook Marketplace.
Speaker 3:
[46:09] I know!
Speaker 1:
[46:09] So any day now?
Speaker 3:
[46:10] Any day now. I should have bought that 900 Turbo. I know.
Speaker 2:
[46:13] Oh my god.
Speaker 3:
[46:14] Why didn't I?
Speaker 1:
[46:15] Was that local?
Speaker 3:
[46:15] To be fair, it was two years ago.
Speaker 1:
[46:18] Yeah, but Filippo, what are you...
Speaker 3:
[46:20] What am I? I should buy that.
Speaker 1:
[46:21] This would have been so cool. Where was this? It's got California plates on it.
Speaker 3:
[46:24] It's somewhere in California.
Speaker 1:
[46:24] Scroll down. Oh my god, it's in the bay! They're all gonna be in the bay.
Speaker 3:
[46:29] They're all gonna be in the bay. I don't think that realistically we can have five cars for two adults. That's a little much, even for me.
Speaker 1:
[46:39] Filippo's like one of these Michael Fuchs type people. Have you figured this out? He can't sell anything. He can't get motivated to sell a car.
Speaker 3:
[46:46] Cars have purpose in our lives.
Speaker 2:
[46:47] Michael Fuchs stuff seems...
Speaker 1:
[46:48] Five?
Speaker 3:
[46:49] No, we're only at four. That's why I can't add a five.
Speaker 1:
[46:52] You're two drivers and you have seven. Three of the cars. Yeah, but Filippo, three of the cars are hatchbacks. And the pickup truck has rotted tires, can't even use it. I don't understand. What does the Volkswagen GTI do that the Mercedes station wagon doesn't?
Speaker 3:
[47:04] The GTI is going to go away.
Speaker 1:
[47:06] Yeah, but how long have we been hearing that?
Speaker 3:
[47:07] Because the issue is that every week, that car gets driven a few hundred miles up to Riverside and back, or wherever my wife has worked.
Speaker 1:
[47:14] But if you had the Mercedes station wagon...
Speaker 3:
[47:16] She would take that, yeah. No, no, the GTI is going to go away. It just is. It's like, in my mind, it's gone.
Speaker 1:
[47:21] Well, what would be nice to do?
Speaker 2:
[47:23] But in reality, is that it's still here.
Speaker 3:
[47:26] Yeah, but it's gonna be gone soon. But then maybe, maybe we'll go back to Ford.
Speaker 1:
[47:31] In my mind, it's already gone.
Speaker 2:
[47:32] Is it in your mind that money's in your bank account?
Speaker 1:
[47:34] I got 14 cars, but in my mind, 12 of them don't exist, so I really, I'm down to two.
Speaker 2:
[47:39] It's like some Nick Rocheon level.
Speaker 1:
[47:42] That was some flaky Nick BF.
Speaker 3:
[47:45] So maybe there'll be a Saab in my future, or a Volvo, I could go either way.
Speaker 1:
[47:48] T5R, get an 850 T5R.
Speaker 3:
[47:49] I want an 80, could be cool.
Speaker 1:
[47:50] If you get an 850 T5R wagon, I only buy stick cars. You can swap a stick in two seconds. Literally, me and Kennan with two cold ones could do it in a couple hours, he would even be back in time for dinner with Emily.
Speaker 3:
[48:02] I don't want that. I would consider a lot of like, bad 80s, 90s cars.
Speaker 1:
[48:08] Pull that back up.
Speaker 3:
[48:09] No, no, that's a good 80s, 90s car. I've never been an 850 fan, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:
[48:14] I put 40,000 miles on one of these.
Speaker 3:
[48:17] I've never been a fan of that 850 either, actually.
Speaker 1:
[48:19] What do you like? What Volvos do you like?
Speaker 3:
[48:23] I love the next gen, I do like it, and the prior gen I'm pretty into. Yeah, I do love a nice S70 and a V70.
Speaker 1:
[48:29] What's the difference between an S70 and an 850?
Speaker 3:
[48:30] No, no, they're becoming a little more rounded, and I do like a more pushed S70. I do like this more, but it's too new.
Speaker 1:
[48:38] This is like...
Speaker 2:
[48:38] It's too new, 1998.
Speaker 3:
[48:41] If I'm going old, I'm going to go 80s, 90s.
Speaker 1:
[48:43] So Volvos are out?
Speaker 3:
[48:45] Well, no, I do love a nice 240.
Speaker 1:
[48:46] A 240? If you get a 240 wagon in addition to your Mercedes wagon and your GTI...
Speaker 3:
[48:53] No, the GTI will be gone.
Speaker 1:
[48:55] Oh yeah, yeah, the GTI is gone, I forgot.
Speaker 3:
[48:58] That 900 SPG I think I did get on, but it was sold by the Peterson, and it hadn't been run. There was some issue with it, but I think I did bid.
Speaker 1:
[49:05] The fact that you didn't buy this car with three spokes...
Speaker 3:
[49:07] I know!
Speaker 2:
[49:08] You could have bought it, it's just $7,100!
Speaker 3:
[49:10] Saab 900 it is, I have permission from my wife.
Speaker 1:
[49:12] This is so you, an original Saab 900, this thing. An OG 900, but not an OG 900. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:
[49:17] Right.
Speaker 3:
[49:18] Yeah. I'm so curious, I don't think you did. To be clear, that is the OG 900, but it's okay.
Speaker 1:
[49:22] What's the next one?
Speaker 3:
[49:23] The NG 900.
Speaker 1:
[49:24] What's the last one?
Speaker 3:
[49:25] The OG 93 and then the NG 93.
Speaker 1:
[49:28] Okay, got it.
Speaker 3:
[49:28] Yeah, yeah. All right. Two other quick things I want to talk about that are events related, because I feel like I got to shout them out because I will be at both of them. In early May, I will be, no, the other one. I will not be at Wagon Fest, fortunately, but I will be at a Cars and Coffee that we're doing at Tire Rack Headquarters in South Bend, Indiana, alongside the American Branching Association and One Lap of America.
Speaker 2:
[49:49] I've driven past it before.
Speaker 3:
[49:51] Have you? They have quite a large parking lot. So One Lap of America participants, that's the ending of it, are going to be doing laps at the Tire Rack thing. You know, Headquarters. But then we're going to be doing Cars and Coffee that morning. If you want to come in the community page, we have a post where you can submit your car. I'm going to personally review them and send some personalized invites to the cars.
Speaker 2:
[50:15] It's the second point. Filippo will be on the ground, not in the air, hanging out, talking about cars.
Speaker 3:
[50:20] I want to be clear. You have to go to the community post, put your car there, because I'm going to review all of them and invite the people that I think have the coolest cars. That I think have the coolest cars. Not that Doug thinks have the coolest cars, that I think have the coolest cars.
Speaker 1:
[50:31] This is the tire-rank headquarters off Vorden Parkway out there in South Bend.
Speaker 3:
[50:36] They'll have about half of their main parking lot.
Speaker 1:
[50:38] If you are nice to Filippo, he will take you over to the Pilot Travel Center off of Brick Road in South Bend there, and he will buy you a hot dog.
Speaker 3:
[50:50] I make no such commitment.
Speaker 1:
[50:52] If you are nice to Filippo, he may even take you to Chivo's Pizza, which is on Ameritech Drive in South Bend across the street from the Pilot.
Speaker 3:
[51:01] Sounds like it could be good.
Speaker 1:
[51:02] I'll tell you this. If this Cars and Coffee goes well, and Filippo ends up happy, and maybe you've seen a couple of Saabs, everybody goes to Chivo's Pizza on Filippo at the end of the event.
Speaker 3:
[51:14] How about this? I'll bring the people pizza. Unfortunately, the event ends at like 11 a.m. a little early.
Speaker 1:
[51:18] That's why you go over to Chivo's, dude.
Speaker 2:
[51:19] That's your right at lunchtime.
Speaker 1:
[51:20] Chivo's opens at 11! See you there! Unfortunately, it hasn't opened until 3 on Saturday. Chivo's doesn't do lunch on the weekend.
Speaker 3:
[51:27] What a shame. The other event is we will be at the Velocity Invitational. We're going to be bringing a bunch of really exciting cars, including an Alfa Romeo TZ that's over there that changed Doug's life.
Speaker 1:
[51:36] Changed my life.
Speaker 3:
[51:37] A bunch of the cars, all the cars that we bring will be up for auction, so you can come to the event and check them out.
Speaker 1:
[51:41] Are you going to this?
Speaker 2:
[51:42] I'm not going to this.
Speaker 1:
[51:43] Why not?
Speaker 3:
[51:44] Which is a sad shame.
Speaker 2:
[51:45] I might. I was talking to Grand Award courses, like I was thinking I might.
Speaker 1:
[51:48] Dude, this is a real event.
Speaker 2:
[51:50] I know.
Speaker 1:
[51:51] Have you been to Sonoma?
Speaker 2:
[51:52] I have not.
Speaker 1:
[51:53] You should go to this.
Speaker 2:
[51:54] You think so?
Speaker 1:
[51:54] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[51:55] It's going to be a truly cool event.
Speaker 1:
[51:56] This is like car heaven in May instead of in August. You should go out there. It's so close.
Speaker 3:
[52:01] It's like vintage racing. It's all the cool stuff.
Speaker 2:
[52:02] It's like 6-7 hours away.
Speaker 3:
[52:03] Yeah, this is like an easy flight.
Speaker 1:
[52:05] 6-7.
Speaker 3:
[52:08] But regardless, we'll be up there. Check out cars.com/events to buy tickets with a discount. Or if you have a car, we have a couple more slots, literally a couple of slots for cool cars.
Speaker 1:
[52:18] If I live in the South Bend thing at Tirewreck, is there tickets for that?
Speaker 3:
[52:22] Yes, you have to go to the community page. And I will invite you if you are worthy.
Speaker 1:
[52:27] Wow. OK, the velocity thing you need to buy tickets for.
Speaker 3:
[52:29] You need to actually buy tickets. There's a discount code at the events page.
Speaker 1:
[52:32] OK, now what if a lot of good events? What if you live in Fort Wayne?
Speaker 3:
[52:36] Well, you're used to driving to get to good things.
Speaker 1:
[52:40] OK, Kennan, you got some talk cars for us?
Speaker 2:
[52:42] Yes, I have a couple of talk cars things. So right now, so we're filming this on Wednesday. By the time this airs, this will be over. But my friend's Boxster is at $19,000 as of the moment.
Speaker 3:
[52:53] It was at $15,000 when we started filming this podcast.
Speaker 2:
[52:54] Yeah, it's really been moving along. But I mean, it's an unbelievably nice example. And my friend Brian has done just an incredible job documenting it. And I genuinely mean this, I'm not just saying because I'm helping represent it, but if I didn't want a Viper, I probably would have bought this and then I would have just one-upped you. I would have been very happy to pull up along in your 911.
Speaker 3:
[53:14] Be careful with your language choice.
Speaker 1:
[53:16] It is pretty common to be deciding between a 986 Boxster S and a Viper. And so I understand...
Speaker 2:
[53:22] I fall in love with nice examples of things. When I say something that's nice and careful, I just love that story.
Speaker 3:
[53:28] That's why you love my wagon.
Speaker 1:
[53:31] Do you fall in love with nice examples of things? Yeah, of course. Because if so...
Speaker 3:
[53:35] Where's this going? I don't know.
Speaker 1:
[53:38] Right now, over on the cars and bids there, can you pull up, go to the cars and bids, and type in classic. Just the word classic. Because right now we have live that... It's a nice... Click on that. We have live right now, this is a 4500 mile example of the Toyota Classic.
Speaker 3:
[53:58] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[53:58] Now, Kennan, you have previously told us that you like nice things.
Speaker 2:
[54:03] I say I fall in love with nice things, and my heart is only so large.
Speaker 3:
[54:08] This is so cool. It's on a Hilux platform.
Speaker 2:
[54:10] I think it's actually pretty cool. The best part about it to me is that Toyota logo. Like a Mercedes logo on the front, just sticking up proud on the hood.
Speaker 1:
[54:17] Did I tell the story of this car on this podcast?
Speaker 3:
[54:19] No.
Speaker 1:
[54:19] The history of this car?
Speaker 3:
[54:20] No.
Speaker 1:
[54:21] All right. Toyota. I'm sorry to interrupt the box.
Speaker 2:
[54:24] I will come back.
Speaker 1:
[54:25] Toyota. We all know Toyota. They manufacture a lot of great cars and also my Republican SUV. And not Republican.
Speaker 2:
[54:32] Mega Republican. I was like, a lot of great cars.
Speaker 1:
[54:36] So Toyota had become a car company in whatever year, 1920 whatever. And it's, they're coming up on their 75th or their 100th or whatever birthday.
Speaker 3:
[54:45] 60.
Speaker 1:
[54:46] And there, you know this story?
Speaker 3:
[54:47] No, but I'm reading 60.
Speaker 1:
[54:48] And they're like, they're like, we really want to find a good example for our birthday of the very first car that we ever made. Do you know the story? They want to find the very, a good example of the first car they ever made. It was this Toyota and it looked like a Chrysler Airflow, similar to this and they made it like a 200 of them total in the whole world and they were like, let's find a good example of the car so we can show it off, the AA, that's what it was called. Let's see if we can show this car off at our birthday celebrations. So they start looking and looking and looking. Two years later, they never found an example of their first car. So what they decided to do was using as many photos and documents as they could find, and they recreated, and this is a modern homage to the car, but they recreated one example that was really perfect of a Model AA. And then the birthday happened, came and went, and then they found one in a barn in Russia. And type it in, the only one that's photographed is going to be the ugly one that shows up from the barn. Uh, yeah. There it is. The car had been mounted on a different frame, and used different wheels, but the body, this was agreed by all parties to be a Toyota Model AA, the only surviving Toyota Model AA. And the Russians who found it in their barn, sold it for hundreds of thousands of dollars to, I think the Toyota distributor in the Netherlands, and it's in a museum, I think, in the Netherlands, or Belgium, or something like that. But, after many years of searching, Toyota couldn't find their first car, only for it to turn up later in a barn in Russia. No one knows how, no one knows why. Anyway, this is intended to be a modern day kind of take on, I actually saw one of these when I was in Tokyo many years ago.
Speaker 3:
[56:43] Built by Toyota Technocraft.
Speaker 1:
[56:45] What is your, so you like nice examples, here you go.
Speaker 2:
[56:48] Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1:
[56:49] It's not a Hilux chassis, what motor is in it?
Speaker 3:
[56:51] A two liter four cylinder.
Speaker 1:
[56:53] It looks like pretty weak tires too, but if it's on a Hilux chassis, you know what you could do.
Speaker 2:
[56:57] You could do real things. Yep, raw doggit on the O-tie truck.
Speaker 1:
[57:00] Anyway, Kennan, the Boxster is up.
Speaker 2:
[57:02] Yeah, the Boxster is up and is performing quite well, but I also have, so I have another friend who wanted me to help him sell his car, that's coming out like, very quick in quick succession. So this is my friend's car, so this is a very different car. I don't think people are cross-shopping the two of these. I've been working on this for like a week or so, so like the timing is like, just kind of what it is. But this is a Ferrari California T, but specifically it's a 70th anniversary model. Do you remember these cars? No. So to celebrate their birthday, their 70th birthday, Ferrari decided they wanted to create an homage to 70 iconic liveries from their past, you know, very famous color combinations. And they decided to build one of each model in the range using that color combination. So there were five models. It was the GTC4 Lusso, the 488 GTB, the Spider, the F12, and the California T. And so they built 350 of these cars, and technically each of them is a one of one, because they would do one example of each of them.
Speaker 1:
[57:54] So this is the Cali 270 of this colorway, whatever it was trying to pay homage to.
Speaker 2:
[57:59] Yes, the 206 Dino Composite T9, the one that Glickenhaus has. Because it has the blue carpets and all that stuff. And what's interesting is, like, if you bought one of these cars from Ferrari, my friend bought this car brand new, actually bought two of them. This one in a different California, it's in a different livery. But when you bought them, you didn't option the car. Ferrari did all of it, they spec'd all of it through their TaylorMade program, which is like their Sunderwunsch, like, the equivalent. And so...
Speaker 1:
[58:21] Put it on the TaylorMade badge?
Speaker 2:
[58:23] Yeah, so this is the, just so you get a little video to take a look. But yeah, the TaylorMade badge says, like, exactly which car it's inspired by. It says one of one, which Ferrari, you know, kind of plays a little fast and loose with production numbers, but like, they actually call it out a one of one. No, this one, these definitely are a one of one. But what's fascinating is the market value sees it at an unbelievably high rate, because when you think about it, there are no collectible versions of the California T, the F12 has the TDF, but like, they're just like the GTC4 Luce, so there was nothing like that.
Speaker 1:
[58:50] So this car's only got 1500 miles.
Speaker 2:
[58:52] 1500 miles, classic case certification, which for a new Ferrari, I realized was like, you know, I mean, it was new, but like even so, they go underneath it, there are pictures of the transmission numbers and all this stuff. And it's just like an amazing car. So I'm trying, so also one last thing about this. Well, my friend went to Italy, to the factory. He went to the tailor made division to check things out. And they went and pulled the files on his car so he could see it. The level of detail they go into, I didn't realize like they have like the gauge of the thread that was used for the stitching, how wide everything has to be. This particular color, which is giallo triplo strada, which is used on other Ferraris. They have five internal shades they don't tell people about. They just kind of pick them. They picked the shade for this car and they have the exact pink mixture that's required for it. So if it needs anything ever, like Ferrari has all this information, which I had no idea that went to that level of detail.
Speaker 1:
[59:42] It looks amazing that color.
Speaker 2:
[59:44] If you click through and listen, this is obviously a really cool picture, but if you click through the Xterra pictures of the car like we're taking outside, it just goes, wha! in the sun. So I did a video on this car, it's out of San Antonio, and that's where he has it stored right now.
Speaker 3:
[59:58] You're agreeing to present my wagon for me, right?
Speaker 2:
[60:01] You want help with your wagon? I'm going to be honest about every flaw. This car has 1500 miles and I only found two flaws on it. Your car, I'm going to find some stuff. So...
Speaker 1:
[60:09] Kenan is presenting cars. Kenan is great at this. And we got the Boxster, we have his own cars he's had been successful with. He's got this California team.
Speaker 2:
[60:16] I can't break that record. Well again, a couple people reached out and like, I do love doing this, it is really fun. And I just want, I truly genuinely just want to help these like good cars find like good homes. And I believe in our platform to do it, and I'm happy to do this.
Speaker 1:
[60:28] Boom, take that.
Speaker 2:
[60:29] What you doing?
Speaker 1:
[60:31] On that subject, I want to move on to the Market Report. I want to talk about our platform. The Market Report is brought to you by Cars and Friends, our second podcast. If you like Cars and Bids, but you want friends, go to Cars and Friends.
Speaker 3:
[60:44] It comes out every Monday on the Cars and Bids YouTube channel and on Spotify.
Speaker 1:
[60:49] Who are the friends? It's Ryan Lopez?
Speaker 3:
[60:51] It's often, it's usually me, Ken and Ryan, Nick.
Speaker 1:
[60:53] Ryan Lopez is part of it?
Speaker 3:
[60:55] Usually.
Speaker 2:
[60:55] Sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[60:56] Folks, if you tune in this week, Ryan Lopez will tell you the story about how he crashed a Mark IV Supra. It's gonna be great stuff.
Speaker 2:
[61:02] He was so hot from not having his air conditioning fixed that he just lost control.
Speaker 3:
[61:06] None of this happened, think about it.
Speaker 1:
[61:09] I wanna talk about 991s.
Speaker 3:
[61:12] I removed that from my list because I felt like we talked about 991s too much.
Speaker 1:
[61:15] And I actually wonder if we had, there's this short going around that blew up that we were like, 991s are gonna be the 993 of the modern era.
Speaker 3:
[61:23] You said this.
Speaker 1:
[61:23] I agree with that.
Speaker 3:
[61:24] You said that because I don't agree with that.
Speaker 2:
[61:25] I don't agree with it. I said the 997 is the modern era.
Speaker 1:
[61:28] The market agrees with me.
Speaker 3:
[61:29] No, 997.2, press it up.
Speaker 2:
[61:30] I don't agree with it. Dude, 997 got hot.
Speaker 1:
[61:33] 991 sticks are 85.
Speaker 3:
[61:36] Well, we sold a couple.
Speaker 1:
[61:38] The market is...
Speaker 2:
[61:39] Look at this. This is a 20,000 mile S that sold for 74.
Speaker 1:
[61:43] Do you know what a 20,000 mile 991S would sell for right now?
Speaker 3:
[61:47] It's also seven years newer.
Speaker 1:
[61:48] This is a base. These are base cars.
Speaker 3:
[61:50] I know. The one with 57,000 miles earlier this week.
Speaker 1:
[61:53] This car with 57,000 miles sold for 80 plus. The one we sold today was a tip. And it sold for 79.
Speaker 3:
[61:59] I know. The 991s are up.
Speaker 1:
[62:01] Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[62:02] 991s are up more.
Speaker 1:
[62:03] Up more relative, but 991s never went down. It is wild to me what this market looks like.
Speaker 3:
[62:09] I know. I can't believe they never went down. I do suspect there aren't that many 991.2 sales that I find interesting because they're mostly PDK. I wonder though whether they're lower because those are the turbocharged 3 liter and instead of the prior 560s.
Speaker 1:
[62:23] Regardless, the 991.1, the market is absolutely treating it like it's the end of an era. I predict it is.
Speaker 2:
[62:30] The.2s are not that much lower, Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[62:32] Yeah, but they're also newer.
Speaker 1:
[62:34] Way newer and they are not crazy money. 991.1s that are like base model cars with mid-mile, especially with sticks, are selling for like crazy money.
Speaker 3:
[62:45] I agree.
Speaker 1:
[62:45] Sean desperately wanted the big wheel brown one and he got so beaten out that he's still crying about it. And then this one, the black one sold for even more, with even more miles.
Speaker 3:
[62:55] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[62:55] And I thought just recently we were talking about how 991s are coming, finally.
Speaker 3:
[63:01] I said that on a podcast three weeks ago when that was true for the results on Cars and Friends, and then somehow they're ticking back up.
Speaker 2:
[63:07] Because you talked about it. The commenters are right. You overhyped it and now they're going up and down.
Speaker 1:
[63:13] I am astonished at that market.
Speaker 3:
[63:15] Convertible PDKs, by the way, are an exception. So if you want a 991.0 PDK, you can get a good value.
Speaker 2:
[63:20] The cheap code with all 911s is the cab. If you want a good value, you get the cab.
Speaker 1:
[63:24] Especially a tip.
Speaker 2:
[63:25] They're always so much cheaper. I still would love a 991.1 tip as a daily.
Speaker 3:
[63:30] Buy a tip cabriolet. They're $50,000.
Speaker 2:
[63:33] It's not going to go down at all.
Speaker 3:
[63:35] I can't imagine it going down more than that.
Speaker 2:
[63:36] It's NA.
Speaker 3:
[63:37] Well, but you should consider it.
Speaker 1:
[63:39] By the way, you know what car was cheap? Go to it, pull up, press up, press up, type up, right up, press up. DB11.
Speaker 3:
[63:46] Oh, I saw that result.
Speaker 2:
[63:48] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[63:49] So this car had a salvage title, and so it didn't sell.
Speaker 2:
[63:52] The colors are for those of us who are old.
Speaker 1:
[63:56] But 51.5, now it didn't sell, okay. The market views a salvage title DB11 with only 10,000 miles to be worth 50. And I'm sitting here looking at 991s with 60,000 miles selling for 80. And by the way, this is true over on the trailer also. It's all the 991 markets crazy. DB11s, you want to bargain, you go pick up a DB11.
Speaker 3:
[64:17] And it was it well, no, that that the one this one wasn't, but it's the one that sold for 80 is not a V12.
Speaker 1:
[64:21] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[64:21] But can I get along that train of thought? Can I talk about a V12 Aston? So I think that I said on the cars and the buds that I think that V12 Aston's, I think Aston's in general undervalued. I still cannot believe that these Vantage S's are so cheap for what they are. I think all Aston Martin's offer unbelievable value and incredible performance. It's 100 grand. Yeah. But a manual one is more than double that. I know this is not right. But like huge, giant, 560,000 for a 9000 mile tip.
Speaker 1:
[64:53] It seems about right where I would expect it to be.
Speaker 3:
[64:56] Feels a little more than I would personally.
Speaker 1:
[64:57] I think it's such a special number is really impressive. Why did that car sell so cheap?
Speaker 2:
[65:02] It had a lot of miles, I think it had tons of miles on it. But even so, I would happily buy this car. I just think Astins in general are really offer an incredible experience.
Speaker 1:
[65:12] I agree with that.
Speaker 2:
[65:13] Not, I mean it's a lot of money, but it's not as much.
Speaker 1:
[65:15] A V12 in a car this size is pretty legit.
Speaker 2:
[65:17] That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:
[65:18] 565 horsepower is pretty cool.
Speaker 3:
[65:19] Especially the stick for 85, that was an interesting number.
Speaker 2:
[65:22] And it was not an S. The S's are like $250,000 cars.
Speaker 1:
[65:26] You want to talk about the RS2? Pull it up.
Speaker 3:
[65:27] No, I actually really want to talk about the Corolla XRS.
Speaker 1:
[65:30] Pull up the RS2 first.
Speaker 3:
[65:32] No, no, go to the RS2 first.
Speaker 1:
[65:33] So, I want to tell you a story about the RS2. Anybody who's not selling wagons on cars and bids is insane. This RS2 went over on the Bring the Trailer and sold for an R&M for a fraction of its actual worth, if we're being honest, and came over to the cars and the bids and sold for all the money that it absolutely deserved because it's cool as hell. Cars and bids is so clearly the wagon place. And it's just true. And this car proves it.
Speaker 3:
[66:00] 53% more than the prior result over on the trailer place.
Speaker 1:
[66:06] This car is, I still think it's cool, and it still uses Porsche mirrors, after all this time.
Speaker 2:
[66:11] And wheels.
Speaker 1:
[66:11] And wheels and turn signals and a lot of other stuff.
Speaker 3:
[66:14] It's still a cool car.
Speaker 2:
[66:15] And if only it didn't.
Speaker 3:
[66:17] I realized when thinking about this car that I don't.
Speaker 1:
[66:21] You don't want lunch.
Speaker 3:
[66:22] But I did like yours a lot.
Speaker 1:
[66:23] You want the Corolla XRS.
Speaker 3:
[66:24] I do. Okay, we have a Corolla XRS.
Speaker 1:
[66:25] You know what this car is?
Speaker 3:
[66:26] The one that's live, the one that's live.
Speaker 1:
[66:27] No. Okay, for a brief period, I think there may have actually been two generations. Toyota took the four-cylinder engine that was in the Lotus Elise and other Toyotas, like the Matrix XRS and the Vibe GT, and they put it in a Corolla. And from the outside, it basically can't be told apart. There's a couple of ways that guys like me and Filippo can tell. How? Is it the bumper? It had its own wheels. The bumpers were a little different. It had a spoiler, minor though, because the regular Corolla S also had this stuff. It was just a little different.
Speaker 3:
[66:57] The spoiler was a little worse than this.
Speaker 1:
[67:00] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[67:01] It's such a cool car. This has got to be the single nicest one in existence.
Speaker 1:
[67:05] You've got to assume dynamically it's not that great.
Speaker 3:
[67:07] Who cares?
Speaker 1:
[67:07] I know, because that powertrain, I had that powertrain in the lease. It is so good.
Speaker 3:
[67:12] It looks good. I don't like this generation of Corolla very much, but somehow...
Speaker 1:
[67:15] Really? This isn't your favorite gen Corolla?
Speaker 3:
[67:16] No, my wife actually had one for a bit.
Speaker 1:
[67:19] What's your favorite gen Corolla? This is my favorite. 0-3 to 0-8.
Speaker 3:
[67:24] The one before it.
Speaker 1:
[67:26] Really?
Speaker 3:
[67:27] That was also Chevy Prism.
Speaker 1:
[67:28] That was such a mediocre car. It was a better car. That's the kind of car he wants.
Speaker 2:
[67:33] That's the kind of car he wants. It's rockously mediocre.
Speaker 1:
[67:36] The current Corolla is pretty damn good.
Speaker 3:
[67:37] It's a good car.
Speaker 2:
[67:39] Is this your favorite Corolla?
Speaker 1:
[67:40] The current Corolla with the hybrid is hard to argue against, to be honest. It's a damn good car.
Speaker 3:
[67:44] Here's a fun fact.
Speaker 2:
[67:44] This is... Sorry.
Speaker 3:
[67:46] No, please.
Speaker 2:
[67:47] This is the kind of car I love that's been well-kept. Like this...
Speaker 1:
[67:50] Well, Kennan.
Speaker 2:
[67:50] This is beautiful.
Speaker 3:
[67:51] This is 21,000 miles. It's got the manual. It's got the 2ZZ. It's unmodified. It's in Arizona.
Speaker 2:
[67:57] You have never owned a Japanese car.
Speaker 1:
[67:58] This motor in the Elise was so good. You'd be on it and you'd be going fast. And then it kicks in at this like super hard, the variable laptop thing kicks in, there's this super high rev, and then it goes even faster. And it was like, oh.
Speaker 2:
[68:10] Now granted, this is front wheel drive, has four doors, is heavier, and it also has dynamic, is the Elise, but the part keeps the same.
Speaker 1:
[68:17] Let me make a suggestion though. You could convert it to mid-engine rear wheel drive. It's already been done. It's gotta be possible.
Speaker 2:
[68:25] Just a couple of cold ones.
Speaker 3:
[68:29] Underneath the rear seats, obviously.
Speaker 1:
[68:31] Hey dude, they did it in the MR2 also.
Speaker 3:
[68:33] This is so, truly this is so cool. Here's a fun fact, I drove a Corolla S of this gen, automatic, to your wedding.
Speaker 1:
[68:39] Oh, how beautiful.
Speaker 3:
[68:40] Fun fact, but this is a cool, cool car.
Speaker 1:
[68:43] I've always found this car cool, I agree with you. Never seen.
Speaker 2:
[68:45] Oh, this has a reserve, I was gonna say you should bid on it.
Speaker 3:
[68:47] I would, except for the fact that it has a reserve.
Speaker 1:
[68:51] Yep, that's the one, that's the thing.
Speaker 3:
[68:53] No, but it's so cool.
Speaker 1:
[68:55] This is well kept, and the El Monte thing is a nice touch. Go bid on this Corolla XRS.
Speaker 3:
[68:59] It's so nice.
Speaker 1:
[69:01] Your Z3M commentaries, I agree with you completely. Pull that eye over.
Speaker 2:
[69:04] So, I don't understand this. So, when Porsches come up in unusual colors, they sell for a gazillion dollars.
Speaker 1:
[69:10] Oh my goodness, it's floofing, gluffing gray.
Speaker 2:
[69:13] I've never seen anything like this color before. Exactly, it comes to market, rentless goes absolutely insane, and people lose their minds. BMW Z3s, this is not the same. Now, this color is evergreen. This is on the Z3M, it was often on the car.
Speaker 1:
[69:26] You know this color? It's nuts. There are even nuts-er colors on the Z3, but this one's out there.
Speaker 2:
[69:30] This one is out.
Speaker 1:
[69:31] Look at the interior.
Speaker 2:
[69:32] That's the real thing. It's green on green, which is outrageous. And if there were 964 in this color combination.
Speaker 1:
[69:38] 2X, 2X the value of a regular car.
Speaker 2:
[69:40] Easy, 993 would absolutely defunction.
Speaker 1:
[69:43] It had no premium.
Speaker 3:
[69:43] That's not true. It had like a 30% premium over a regular color. What do you mean?
Speaker 2:
[69:47] I mean, look, this one is red.
Speaker 3:
[69:49] Well, that has has to miles and doesn't have a...
Speaker 1:
[69:52] What was the mileage on this one? I will also say, this one is in Maine, which always...
Speaker 2:
[69:55] 56,000 miles.
Speaker 3:
[69:56] There's a clerical error, but you know...
Speaker 2:
[69:58] The 56,000 miles shown, this one had 192.
Speaker 3:
[70:01] These are reliable.
Speaker 1:
[70:03] Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2:
[70:03] I think that it's 52.
Speaker 3:
[70:05] It's like an $18,000 to $21,000 range there.
Speaker 1:
[70:09] Nonetheless, I completely agree with him that this does not add...
Speaker 2:
[70:12] How many miles does this one have?
Speaker 3:
[70:13] Remember the Boxster...
Speaker 2:
[70:14] Look, it's 78,000 miles on this one. Yeah, but it's about the same.
Speaker 3:
[70:18] Right, so good color to special color is a 30% difference.
Speaker 2:
[70:21] Oh, okay, Mr. Percentage. It is a negligible difference.
Speaker 1:
[70:25] What did this sell for? How many miles was this one?
Speaker 2:
[70:29] This one had 78,000 miles.
Speaker 1:
[70:30] The other one was 56,000. And also 17-21 is not 30%. It's so close.
Speaker 3:
[70:38] I was adding a grand on top of the rounding.
Speaker 2:
[70:41] Money is nothing to Filippo.
Speaker 1:
[70:44] He was wrong about the mileage and the price. He's doing great.
Speaker 3:
[70:47] It's like 26% of rounds.
Speaker 2:
[70:48] I think my point stands. I mean, we sold another one. I mean, this one down here. No, you're right.
Speaker 3:
[70:52] I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 1:
[70:53] Hey, what's that heinous color? You know the one I'm talking about?
Speaker 3:
[70:56] The tannish one?
Speaker 1:
[70:58] No, it was like a pistachio. Is that it? It was absolutely decrepitly terrible.
Speaker 3:
[71:02] We've sold one that color.
Speaker 1:
[71:03] We've sold one or two. I swear. In that, remember that military green? Or that was on the Z4.
Speaker 3:
[71:08] Wow, that evergreen one failed to sell at 23 grand with no miles. All right, maybe there is no premium at all.
Speaker 2:
[71:14] There's no premium. People don't care! And I think it's a cool as hell color.
Speaker 3:
[71:17] They're all colors, you know? All the good Z3s are colors.
Speaker 1:
[71:20] A lot of them are silver, a lot of them are silver, or red.
Speaker 2:
[71:23] Or red.
Speaker 3:
[71:23] Remember when we sold that 986 Boxster pre-Boxster hype that was nephrite green and whatever?
Speaker 1:
[71:28] With the same interior.
Speaker 3:
[71:29] That also didn't have a strong premium.
Speaker 1:
[71:32] No.
Speaker 3:
[71:33] People for these cars, these are cheap and disposable. Like you want the one you want. It's going to be a little bit more demand.
Speaker 1:
[71:38] We have auctioned 263 Z3s. If you just type in Z3.
Speaker 2:
[71:42] Wow.
Speaker 1:
[71:43] Z3s are interesting to me because they were all kept as second cars. So it's very easy to find them with no miles. They very rarely have miles.
Speaker 2:
[71:52] This is a great one to buy. The 3 liter. Also, they don't weigh much at all. So even if you just get the 3 liter, not the M, which the M54 is a very reliable motor.
Speaker 1:
[72:02] Yep.
Speaker 2:
[72:03] This is a really great car.
Speaker 1:
[72:04] They are dynamically actually pretty good.
Speaker 2:
[72:06] The difference was yours was in an SUV that it could barely move out of its way.
Speaker 3:
[72:09] This is a little sports car.
Speaker 1:
[72:11] The motor was reliable.
Speaker 3:
[72:12] The motor after I fixed it was reliable, yes.
Speaker 1:
[72:14] I think these Z3s are all generally pretty good bargains. But it is interesting. Like you said, they're pretty tossable. They all have basically low mileage. The 3 liters came in the late ones. You can get an M.
Speaker 2:
[72:27] Yeah, and you get the S54 if you want to go crazy. I realize they do have their shortcomings. They do have the subframe issue like the M3 did.
Speaker 1:
[72:35] All the Z3s have that?
Speaker 2:
[72:36] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[72:37] Go back to Z3 in general and go to Oldest first. Is that a thing we do?
Speaker 3:
[72:40] We do not do Oldest first. Because I wanted James Bond one.
Speaker 1:
[72:44] Oh, you wanted the one point. End at 98.
Speaker 2:
[72:47] Okay, that was like...
Speaker 1:
[72:48] I only want to look at that James Bond color. You remember what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3:
[72:52] I do.
Speaker 1:
[72:53] You know, that car was in like one scene in that movie.
Speaker 2:
[72:55] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[72:56] Oh, there it is.
Speaker 2:
[72:56] There it is, that blue. 1.9.
Speaker 1:
[72:59] 1.9. That thing's probably a dog. But it's 6 grand. I mean, that's a pretty good deal.
Speaker 2:
[73:06] That is pretty good.
Speaker 1:
[73:07] It should be James Bond. You could be James Bond for 6 grand, dude. It's every dream you've ever had.
Speaker 3:
[73:12] I've never cared.
Speaker 1:
[73:14] OK, we got to move on to questions. The questions were not good this week.
Speaker 3:
[73:18] Oh, yikes.
Speaker 1:
[73:18] Folks, give us good questions. Go to carsandbids.com, click on the community tab. There will be a post and podcast questions. It says, please give us your questions. If you're listening to this right now and you're thinking, I can do better than these questions, then do. Do better than these questions. Give us the good stuff, people. We like good questions, not what car should I get, not if you could import any car or if you could have any automaker build you anything. Those are too broad, too, give us the good stuff. That question last week about the Fast and the Furious, what cars would replace the car, it was the best question I've ever been asked.
Speaker 2:
[73:50] That was a good one.
Speaker 1:
[73:51] Dear, a question from Glenn Hamien. Dear Kennan, Filippo, and Doug, what cars have you had that your partners have hated and did their opinion cause you to eventually get rid of the car, it's only applicable to you.
Speaker 3:
[74:03] Cause your partner has never hated a car.
Speaker 1:
[74:04] My partner doesn't know what cars I have currently, to be honest.
Speaker 3:
[74:11] My wife didn't love the X5, but I didn't really let her drive it because I was worried it would break down. And to be fair, it did, often. There's battery issues and also rust issues and brake lines issues, it was a whole thing.
Speaker 2:
[74:25] You bought a good one.
Speaker 1:
[74:27] It's typical Filippo.
Speaker 3:
[74:28] She really did not like the NB Miata that we had. She thought it was too small, like just like a little too rickety and small.
Speaker 1:
[74:35] What car does she like? What does she like there?
Speaker 3:
[74:38] She loves the GTI. Surprisingly loves it. And she's otherwise been fine with the other cars.
Speaker 1:
[74:42] You're going to get rid of that GTI that she loves? Why don't you get rid of the station wagon?
Speaker 3:
[74:45] Because the GTI is not quite big enough. Truly, it's not.
Speaker 1:
[74:48] Yeah. So you need some size. You got that pickup truck now. You know what's in the back of this pickup truck? Did you see this last night?
Speaker 2:
[74:54] A spare wheel, right?
Speaker 3:
[74:55] No.
Speaker 1:
[74:55] I'm going to tell you what's in the back. I'm going to tell you what's in the back. There's two spare wheels and a cinder block.
Speaker 3:
[75:01] And two floor mats.
Speaker 1:
[75:03] And two rubber floor mats.
Speaker 2:
[75:04] That's exactly what I was hoping.
Speaker 3:
[75:05] And I want you to know that I spent a long time before it got shipped here clearing out the rest of it.
Speaker 2:
[75:10] He has two white wheels and two black wheels and they're on opposite corners from one another.
Speaker 1:
[75:14] Honestly, it's going to be new wheels. Yeah, right. That's a mistake.
Speaker 3:
[75:16] New wheels coming.
Speaker 1:
[75:17] The way to do mismatched wheels is put them on the same side. And that way no one really realizes.
Speaker 3:
[75:22] There's going to be new wheels soon because they're 16 and a half inch wheels and really hard to find tires for them.
Speaker 1:
[75:26] You can buy a bolt pattern a different size.
Speaker 3:
[75:29] I'm sick of this.
Speaker 1:
[75:30] He's driving around this dry rotted thing.
Speaker 3:
[75:32] I'm not driving it around.
Speaker 2:
[75:33] You know, also, I just was curious the other day, because also your 911 wheels are bad. They're badly refinished.
Speaker 3:
[75:39] They're slightly off color.
Speaker 2:
[75:40] Yes, he can just buy another set. He just buy another set. They're not expensive. It's like $1,500. You can buy those and just put them on and be done. Instead, you're just going to mess around and not refinish your wheels.
Speaker 1:
[75:50] Here's the difference.
Speaker 3:
[75:52] Here's the difference between you guys and I. I drive my car and I don't want to give up driving it.
Speaker 2:
[75:56] I drive my car way too...
Speaker 3:
[75:57] I don't want to give up driving it. You will never...
Speaker 1:
[75:59] You were just out of town for two weeks.
Speaker 2:
[76:01] And right now you have...
Speaker 1:
[76:02] TWO WEEKS! Oh yeah, well, it doesn't count. Alright, next question from Chi Stefan to Kenan. Do you have any answers for this?
Speaker 2:
[76:09] No, Emily drives an M3 CRT, she drives cooler cars than I do.
Speaker 1:
[76:12] Emily has an M3 CRT.
Speaker 3:
[76:13] Yup.
Speaker 1:
[76:13] Chi Stefan 672, Dear Doug, as a lover of E-Class wagons, would you ever buy the one-off E400 4x4 Squared if it became available? The amount that I have thought about this car...
Speaker 3:
[76:24] Pull it up, Kenan.
Speaker 1:
[76:25] Pull up the E-Class Wagon 4x4 Squared.
Speaker 3:
[76:28] No, it's not sold, ever.
Speaker 1:
[76:29] Now, I know what you're thinking, Kenan. You're thinking they didn't make an E-Class Wagon 4x4 Squared. Oh, but they did. They did.
Speaker 3:
[76:37] Or these photos exist.
Speaker 1:
[76:38] It was a concept. I think Johnny Lieberman drove it or something.
Speaker 2:
[76:42] That picture.
Speaker 1:
[76:43] I'm dead serious. Look at this picture. That's the car we have. I'm dead serious. If I could buy this car, I would pay deep money for it. I'm like real hundreds of thousands of dollars to have this car.
Speaker 3:
[76:57] It'd be so cool. It's like a squared G-Wagon without the issues.
Speaker 1:
[77:00] It's so cool. They made one. I don't know why. I think when this body of E-Class Wagon came out to add a little hype.
Speaker 3:
[77:08] It's just like your altar.
Speaker 1:
[77:11] I think it's the coolest thing in the world. I think very often about how I want this car. I think very often about how I want this car. And they never actually brought it to market, which I think was a mistake. I think it was sold.
Speaker 3:
[77:22] Yeah. Imagine the engineering necessary to make it... Well, you made one!
Speaker 1:
[77:28] Make 80! Come on!
Speaker 2:
[77:30] I love how they let their engineers do stuff like this, though. That's very cool. You could do this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[77:35] No, I mean, I would have a conversation. If there's an off-road shop out there that really believes we can get this done, I would have a conversation.
Speaker 2:
[77:43] Take it to Phil Chung. Can I have him spend a weekend with him?
Speaker 1:
[77:45] There's not an off-road shop up there.
Speaker 3:
[77:47] Can I make a suggestion? So, body on frame vehicles. It's a body on top of a frame. Your Sequoia is a body on frame vehicle. Put a different body on it.
Speaker 1:
[77:55] I don't think the E400 is a different body on frame vehicle.
Speaker 3:
[77:58] No, but I'm saying you don't like the image of the Sequoia, but you like the capability of the Sequoia. Just put a different body on it.
Speaker 1:
[78:05] There are shops that would do it. There are shops that would do it. That's what people did. I would have some concerns about crash rigidity, but these days, I don't think that with electronics and sizing and such, I don't think that exists as much, although with those electronic, the electric vehicle skateboard chassis, I'm telling you, if anyone's listening to this pod from Mercedes-Benz, MBUSA, MB Global, if you can sell me this car, and I know you can't, because I think it's too...
Speaker 2:
[78:32] Why did they do this?
Speaker 1:
[78:33] I think it's too new to import.
Speaker 2:
[78:36] Yeah, but this is so much cooler than what they actually built.
Speaker 3:
[78:39] No, but it's not always true.
Speaker 1:
[78:40] Look at that. I would use it, I would drive it, I'd put it on Instagram. This is sitting in a garage somewhere in Stuttgart.
Speaker 2:
[78:46] Exactly, it's in an underground garage.
Speaker 1:
[78:48] It's in an underground garage in Stuttgart, and nobody's thought about it in two and a half years. And I'm sitting here every day wanting it. So like, how does that work?
Speaker 2:
[78:56] We have to preserve our heritage.
Speaker 3:
[78:57] Do I want a 213 wagon now?
Speaker 1:
[78:59] Yeah, you do. They're the best cars ever, man.
Speaker 2:
[79:02] Yeah, Philippe, yes you do. We've talked about this many times.
Speaker 3:
[79:06] I never have till now.
Speaker 1:
[79:07] Next question from Cheese Lover. I'll deal you in on this one, even though it's for me. Now that Doug has saved Lincoln and Nissan by urging them to make boxy off-roaders, it's time to save Maserati. I don't think making a Levante boxy will help. They don't have any off-road credentials and pivoting is expensive. Should they put a new, ultra-exclusive halo car out? If the McPura had a stick, would it sell? Good questions. Here's how you save Maserati. Number one, you create an off-road SUV.
Speaker 3:
[79:32] I agree with them on that.
Speaker 2:
[79:33] Imagine a Levante off-road SUV.
Speaker 1:
[79:36] It wouldn't be a Levante. I think any off-road SUV done well would sell. Any, from any brand.
Speaker 3:
[79:42] I just don't think they have any, nobody has interest in.
Speaker 1:
[79:45] People have interest in a Maserati. And if they could get a Raptor that was a Maserati, have you been to Miami? Have you been to Texas? People, we're doing good.
Speaker 3:
[79:54] And if it sounded good as the Trofeo ones do.
Speaker 2:
[79:58] I'd be into that, to be honest.
Speaker 1:
[79:59] You gotta do that. So that's what I would do first and foremost. I'd make it boxy. I wouldn't just lift a Levante. I would make a good car. This already were impossible for Maserati.
Speaker 3:
[80:07] I don't know how you make a good looking Maserati styled car. Like the styling languages don't fit.
Speaker 1:
[80:13] You ditch the styling language. It doesn't work. They build trash that no one wants. Start there.
Speaker 2:
[80:17] You go back to the Bi-Turbo for styling.
Speaker 1:
[80:19] Yeah. Or the Shamal with the wide fenders. Number two thing you do, and this is what you really do, you have to get enthusiasts back to the brand. The only way to do it is with a real enthusiast car. Yes, you do a manual transmission, mid-engine, good car. Not a depreciation disaster like the MacPira. Not a car that only sells to people in Florida who are not sophisticated car enthusiasts. A real car. Manual transmission, real car. You got a manual, real car for the car enthusiast. You got a boxy SUV for the like, crazy people. Suddenly you're in business. Now you can sell Shamals to whoever you want.
Speaker 3:
[80:52] Can I make a different, give a different answer?
Speaker 1:
[80:54] What's your answer going to be? Dumb lease specials like they've been doing for the last 10 years?
Speaker 3:
[80:57] Just don't try. It's time to give up. Fundamentally.
Speaker 1:
[81:01] It's so sad because people watching this podcast today don't realize this, but Maserati used to be a stronger brand than Ferrari. Maserati has more heritage than Ferrari.
Speaker 3:
[81:09] Nobody recognizes this.
Speaker 2:
[81:09] Well, in the 1950s, until they went under in the 1960s.
Speaker 3:
[81:14] Which usually is the sound of what? When a company is failed.
Speaker 1:
[81:17] No, my point is, there was a time when this brand, Yeah, there was a time when the Maserati. In the 1940s, 50s, they were honestly, they were more legit than Ferrari. Their history goes back longer. They have more race success in that period, PERIOD, than Ferrari does.
Speaker 2:
[81:33] But Ferrari did it better.
Speaker 1:
[81:35] Yeah, well that's true. In the end. But my point is, you don't give up on a storied brand. Yeah. Well, that would be like giving up on Sears or Kmart.
Speaker 2:
[81:43] Or Saab. Oh, well.
Speaker 1:
[81:44] Or Pier 1 Imports. What you do is, you massage a storied brand. What you do is, you massage a storied brand.
Speaker 2:
[81:52] Yeah. I would like to see Maserati be successful. Unlike you, I don't, you just hate nice things. So like for you, you just kind of want the brand to disappear. But I agree with you.
Speaker 1:
[82:02] You know what else you do? You win Le Mans.
Speaker 2:
[82:04] You know, and Ferrari has currently been winning Le Mans, so maybe, well, actually all those engineers went to the Formula One team, which they'll lose the championship this year, I'm sure. But, but I think that you're right.
Speaker 1:
[82:14] Ferrari's won Le Mans the last two years.
Speaker 3:
[82:16] You know that we've made it so far into the F1 season without talking about F1.
Speaker 1:
[82:19] Yeah, but we broke that.
Speaker 2:
[82:22] We've been on break all month because, there's been a month because-
Speaker 1:
[82:25] You haven't given me updates on Cadillac, my team, my guys, America, although there's a Mexican involved.
Speaker 2:
[82:31] What's the story? Great Mexican driver. Well, we've been on break for the last month because there's supposed to be the sports. Because there were two races supposed to be in the Middle East, and things aren't so great right there right now. So they decided to cancel the races. We haven't had F1 all April.
Speaker 1:
[82:46] You know what doesn't go on break is tennis. Yannick Sinner's out there playing tennis right now. And what's the Mexican fellow driving my black wing doing?
Speaker 2:
[82:55] I don't know what anybody is doing right now. I don't know what anybody is doing right now to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:
[83:00] So there's nothing happening?
Speaker 2:
[83:01] Nothing has happened. The first race is this upcoming weekend.
Speaker 1:
[83:03] Where?
Speaker 2:
[83:03] We're back. Is this Miami this weekend?
Speaker 1:
[83:05] Do you think, and this is a real question, do you think that during the break that's happening because of the Middle East situation, do you think that Kenlake has taken that time to retool and it will now be a competitive game?
Speaker 3:
[83:16] They actually came out with a big SUV, it's off-roader. They just did it on the Esquade platform.
Speaker 2:
[83:21] They just decided, tracks, we don't need no tracks, we're going to just go. No, I mean, it's been, it's a hard start to the season for Cadillac, not surprisingly, because, you know, they're a new team, they got to, there's a lot to learn, Formula One is not easy. And so, there hasn't been the smoothest of starts for Cadillac, but, you know, I don't remember where they are, I don't think they've scored any points yet, but I might be wrong on that, but still. It's, I'll keep you posted as the season evolves.
Speaker 1:
[83:46] Tell me when Kenlake wins their first race.
Speaker 2:
[83:48] Okay, well, let's talk to you in a couple of years.
Speaker 1:
[83:52] It's actually interesting, because F1's been taking a break, but I drove here today in my career at GT, so, in a way, F1 is not taking a break in San Diego.
Speaker 2:
[84:03] It's not an F1-derived engine.
Speaker 1:
[84:06] He said F1 car, and I agree with him.
Speaker 2:
[84:08] At the San Diego Auto Museum right now, there's a Footwork Formula One car with a Porsche engine, and you can go look at a real Porsche Formula One engine, and it's not that one.
Speaker 1:
[84:16] Last question, because I gotta move on. I gotta go. I have things to do, people. Last question, from who the hecked? Dude, Doug, you and several of the pod friends, your pod friends have kids. Filippo also is my child. What vehicles will you encourage your children to get for their first cars and they reach driving agent Y? You know, I gotta fill it down my block there. Everybody-
Speaker 3:
[84:38] I can imagine, sure.
Speaker 1:
[84:41] Everything that exists in my world now is just in my neighborhood. I gotta fill it on my block there. He's a fella and he's got a kid. She just turned 16 there. And you know what he got her? It's a great idea. Base model ID4. It's slow.
Speaker 3:
[84:56] That is not a bad idea.
Speaker 1:
[84:57] It's free.
Speaker 3:
[84:58] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[84:59] When he did it. I mean, I think it's, but this was a year ago. It was probably 89 bucks.
Speaker 3:
[85:03] Unfortunately, she's going to crash because she's distracted trying to lower the rear window. Kennan, if you don't know, you have to press the button to make the window so she can do the rear.
Speaker 2:
[85:13] I've heard this. I've heard this.
Speaker 1:
[85:15] If she crashes, it's good because it's safe. The answer to your question is, I'm going to get my kid an ID4.
Speaker 3:
[85:24] They'll love it.
Speaker 1:
[85:25] I'm going to say, hey, I know this thing is 20 years old and the range is down to 61 miles.
Speaker 3:
[85:30] That's the right amount of range. Where are they going?
Speaker 1:
[85:32] No, but in reality, ever since that happened and blew my mind, I now think that that's the perfect car for your kids. Lease the worst electric car you can find.
Speaker 3:
[85:42] They'll all be electric cars.
Speaker 1:
[85:43] Which is a lot of them.
Speaker 3:
[85:45] Shout out to one of our coworkers, Matt Clark, who heads up our product engineering team. His daughter is 16, 17. And she got their old C-Max hybrid.
Speaker 1:
[85:56] That's the same thing!
Speaker 2:
[85:57] That's the same thing.
Speaker 3:
[86:00] Fundamentally the same thing.
Speaker 1:
[86:01] What would you buy?
Speaker 3:
[86:02] I would absolutely not buy.
Speaker 1:
[86:04] What would you lease? You wouldn't buy. How would you procure the car?
Speaker 3:
[86:10] I would buy something new. I don't do that for myself.
Speaker 1:
[86:16] I agree with that. But what does it cost to lease an ID4 for the three years that she goes from driving to college?
Speaker 3:
[86:22] For the three years total, three grand, four, maybe. You're not wrong.
Speaker 1:
[86:26] You're not wrong.
Speaker 3:
[86:29] I don't know. Some lightly used, practical automobile. You know what I'm hearing?
Speaker 1:
[86:36] ID4.
Speaker 3:
[86:38] I don't know. It depends on the child. It really depends on the child.
Speaker 1:
[86:40] I'm also only interested in the ID4. I don't have any interest in the other stuff because the ID4 has been put in my head by this fellow who lives down the street.
Speaker 3:
[86:48] Smart.
Speaker 1:
[86:49] Because the other stuff seems too sporty. The ID4 came out and kind of turned its nose up.
Speaker 3:
[86:52] Especially the ID4 PRO, which is what the bass trim is.
Speaker 2:
[86:56] It's good stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[86:57] So you got some sort of lightly used...
Speaker 3:
[87:00] It depends on the child. What do you have to be worried about with this child?
Speaker 1:
[87:02] Say your child is Kennan.
Speaker 2:
[87:04] Well, then all you have to worry about is that he's going to spend too long listening to Beethoven's symphonies before he gets better.
Speaker 3:
[87:08] I think you've got to get a child like Kennan something that will fuel his passion, like an E46, if it was up there. And now that would be like a...
Speaker 2:
[87:16] No, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 3:
[87:17] No, I think that was the right call. If it fueled your passion, got you into it, it would be the equivalent now is what?
Speaker 1:
[87:23] Like a...
Speaker 2:
[87:24] F10 535i 6-speed. That would be the car that would be the equivalent.
Speaker 1:
[87:28] Oh my god, you're going to get an N54?
Speaker 2:
[87:29] I'm going to get an M5. Screw it. That's what Ryan did.
Speaker 3:
[87:32] I'm so sorry. Don't do that.
Speaker 2:
[87:33] No.
Speaker 1:
[87:34] Don't get an N54 for anybody you love.
Speaker 2:
[87:37] M55.
Speaker 3:
[87:38] M as in Mark. Yes.
Speaker 1:
[87:39] Yeah, but the N54 is the one in the 535, isn't it?
Speaker 2:
[87:41] That's the N55, I think.
Speaker 1:
[87:42] They're both bad. Remember that video?
Speaker 2:
[87:45] You know what? But you need unreliability.
Speaker 1:
[87:47] Do you remember that YouTube short dash cam video of that E82 1 Series and the guy, it breaks down and the guy is like crashing out on the side of the highway in Texas? No. Oh, it's unreal. It's like an E82 that is breaking down or has just broken down and the dude is out like screaming and kicking the car. And it's like, yep.
Speaker 2:
[88:04] OK, that's the it's an interesting point. I will say like my first car was the 2001 E39 525i 5-speed, which was the thing about that car, like it was a nice car. My friend Ryan's first car was an E39 M5.
Speaker 1:
[88:15] What year were you born?
Speaker 2:
[88:16] I was born in 1995.
Speaker 1:
[88:17] So the car was five, six years old when you got, when the car was born. So the question is...
Speaker 2:
[88:23] I was six when the car came out, so if the person...
Speaker 1:
[88:25] If you had a child today, you'd be getting the car in like 20...
Speaker 2:
[88:28] 2020. It's 2026 now, so it would be, the car would have been...
Speaker 3:
[88:32] The car was five years older if you had the car.
Speaker 1:
[88:35] It would be like six years from now.
Speaker 3:
[88:37] 2031.
Speaker 1:
[88:38] I wonder if anything like an E39 will even exist in six years.
Speaker 3:
[88:41] A Nissan Leaf seems like a good choice, too.
Speaker 1:
[88:42] No, the Leaf's too small.
Speaker 2:
[88:43] But my point with this was we were all, actually ended up, you know, a lot of people were like, oh, you don't want to get your kids a nice car and stuff, but we, because of who we were as people, we were so careful with the cars, and actually, Ryan built a whole business out of it, and I'm here in part because my m5 broke down.
Speaker 1:
[88:58] That's a good point.
Speaker 3:
[88:59] It depends on the child.
Speaker 1:
[89:01] Ken and Nancy had instead gotten for you an ID4.
Speaker 3:
[89:06] He would have rebelled and started to do drugs.
Speaker 1:
[89:07] Drugs? Folks, I take back my advice on the ID4. I'm gonna go march down the street and tell my neighbor that he needs to buy his daughter an E39.
Speaker 2:
[89:15] An E39 M5 is the answer for everyone.
Speaker 3:
[89:17] Bicycles exist.
Speaker 2:
[89:18] Bicycles exist. Yep, it'll be popular in high school.
Speaker 1:
[89:21] Thank you so much, Filippo. That's lovely.
Speaker 3:
[89:23] And buses, public transit, very pro public transit.
Speaker 1:
[89:26] Filippo, can I tell you something?
Speaker 2:
[89:27] If you live in rural Texas.
Speaker 3:
[89:29] We don't.
Speaker 1:
[89:30] I'm not trying to be a jerk.
Speaker 2:
[89:30] People do.
Speaker 1:
[89:31] You live in sunny San Diego, in the city, urban life, warm. I live in Anchorage. And not even Anchorage, I live in Mozilla, okay?
Speaker 3:
[89:40] Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:
[89:41] I can't take a bicycle.
Speaker 3:
[89:43] You hanging out with the Palins?
Speaker 1:
[89:44] I don't know what that is. Oh, those people, she was a part of that.
Speaker 3:
[89:48] Sarah Palin, by the way, served and lived in Mozilla, right?
Speaker 1:
[89:50] Well, I don't know. I just go on Zilla there. Listen, this was our best podcast of all time. Buy your kids an ID4. You got any parting advice?
Speaker 3:
[89:58] Don't do that. Go to Cars and Bids. Yeah, go to carsandbids.com, check out our events, come submit your car for the Tyrac event, and also get tickets for the Velocity Invitational event.
Speaker 2:
[90:06] There's an app, there's a version for Android coming. It'll be here at the same time. Filippo will sell the GTI, so we're still waiting on that.
Speaker 1:
[90:12] Mentally, we already have an Android app.
Speaker 2:
[90:16] Goodbye, everyone!