transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[01:00] This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

Speaker 4:
[01:02] Last year, I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself.

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[01:27] Living a busy life, navigating a long-distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone.

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Speaker 5:
[02:03] I'm a cool dad, that's my thing.

Speaker 6:
[02:29] Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that wants to know, why are you mad at me? I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

Speaker 7:
[02:39] Hello. Well, I like that you're teasing the topic that we might get to.

Speaker 6:
[02:43] That we may cover.

Speaker 7:
[02:44] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[02:44] Look, here's the thing. I write two little intros on this piece of paper and I'm gonna use them, god damn it. That's right. That's it.

Speaker 8:
[02:50] Maybe we're mad at you because you're gay.

Speaker 6:
[02:54] It works in so many different dimensions. It's fine.

Speaker 8:
[02:57] I had a student come out to his parents this year and his parents were cool. And it made me so happy.

Speaker 7:
[03:02] Oh, that's nice.

Speaker 8:
[03:03] It was like, oh, tough weekend. I come in ahead and I was like, oh yeah, what's up? Partying too hard. And he was like, I'm coming out to my parents and they're really religious Catholics. And I was like, ah ha ha ha.

Speaker 5:
[03:14] Ah ha ha ha.

Speaker 7:
[03:15] Yeah, I wouldn't even say.

Speaker 5:
[03:16] Why hope they don't deserve to die.

Speaker 6:
[03:25] But they were fine with it.

Speaker 8:
[03:26] They were awesome apparently. They were like, cool.

Speaker 7:
[03:29] I like the stories you hear where the parents were like, yeah man.

Speaker 8:
[03:32] We know.

Speaker 7:
[03:33] Yeah, like, oh, they have to pretend, oh.

Speaker 6:
[03:36] I love that Eli's theater student is surprising anybody, right?

Speaker 8:
[03:40] Yeah, yeah, to be fair, to be fair. Have you seen the video of the little, he's got the little bangs over his eyes, and he's telling his big southern mom, and she's like, honey, you're fan. Like he fell and she's convincing him he's not hurt bad. It's the best.

Speaker 7:
[04:01] That's awesome. Well, that's because people think it's morally wrong.

Speaker 8:
[04:04] Yeah, that's because people think it's morally wrong. And we're going to get to those moral wrongs in just a little bit. But before we do, we need to tell people about the greatest moral wrong of all, something that 100% of Americans can agree sends you straight to hell. I'm talking about listening to auto ads. That's right. If you've ever heard an auto ad, you'll never live in Christ's grace. But you can be saved by accepting Jesus into your heart through faith and faith alone or by heading over to patreon.com forward. I like the idea that there's a new listener who thinks I'm a conservative and just turned off the podcast. But just in case you're not that person, you can head to patreon.com/dearolddads. We get a commercial free version of every single show, plus a little parenting story at the end. Tom taught us how to write an essay last week and next week, he's going to teach us how to tie a hitch knot. You can get all of it over at patreon.com/dearolddads.

Speaker 7:
[04:57] Life lessons with Tom.

Speaker 8:
[04:59] Rip into it.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 6:
[06:08] All right, well, we've got some more of this Pew research study on what's morally wrong here.

Speaker 8:
[06:13] And we're going to start with a bummer. We led up to this one last week, but we didn't actually get to it. 23% of Americans, that would be less than half of the people who think it is wrong.

Speaker 7:
[06:24] I want to just, just before we do that, to refresh people, to drum roll into it. Just quickly review the numbers. Having an affair, 90%. Viewing pornography, 52%. Having abortion, 47%. Homosexuality, 39%. Ending your life with the help of the doctor, 35%. Death penalty, 34%. Gambling, 29%. And that leads us to the first thing that anyone should even think is wrong. Is that right? Hold on, I'm looking back. Yeah, that's the, no, I guess death penalty. Sorry, the second thing, anyone should even give a shit about, on this list, drum roll, we're finally there.

Speaker 8:
[06:59] Using marijuana. Spanking children.

Speaker 7:
[07:03] Spanking your children.

Speaker 6:
[07:05] The beating people that are smaller than you.

Speaker 7:
[07:07] 23%, only 23%.

Speaker 6:
[07:10] And look how many people are like, that's not a moral issue.

Speaker 7:
[07:13] Not a moral issue.

Speaker 8:
[07:15] Not a moral issue.

Speaker 7:
[07:16] That is between that adult and that thing that can't reason yet. That's just between them.

Speaker 8:
[07:21] More people think it's not a moral issue to spank children than think the death penalty is not a moral issue.

Speaker 6:
[07:28] 39% of the people are like, I don't know.

Speaker 7:
[07:31] We haven't been reviewing that. 36% think it's morally acceptable. We haven't even looked at that. That's an interesting split. Cause the gambling one, that was just before it, and it was 29% think morally wrong. Only 20% thought it was morally acceptable, but 50% were like, why are they fucking asking me about that? That's not a moral issue. Which I think is pretty appropriate. That's probably what I would answer now that I think about it. But this one, nope, 36%. It has a higher, like people are more proactively like, whoa, no, that's... That's good. That's a good thing to do.

Speaker 6:
[07:59] You gotta whack.

Speaker 8:
[08:00] But again, now there is an advantage to that 36% because you can actively change all of those people's minds by beating them up.

Speaker 7:
[08:06] By applying the death penalty?

Speaker 8:
[08:07] They've told you, yes. They've told you, hey, if you disagree with me, kick the shit out of me. Cause that's awesome. It's not such a good way to learn. It works on children.

Speaker 7:
[08:19] It works on infants. If it works on children, they're gonna be their defense. What are they gonna say? Well, no, don't do it on me. I can think for myself.

Speaker 8:
[08:27] I'll stop learning.

Speaker 7:
[08:28] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[08:31] Maybe you have to be in a position of authority over that person. So we should beat our employees.

Speaker 8:
[08:35] Yes, Tom, honestly, if you could do a quick survey around the break room and just be like, all right, everybody, you're shirtless, by the way, when you're doing this and you have a tie tied around your forehead and you're cracking your knuckles and you're like, anybody here think it's okay to hit your kids?

Speaker 5:
[08:50] Asking for a friend.

Speaker 8:
[08:52] The friend is my 25 year old testosterone.

Speaker 7:
[08:56] He's like, I've got the keys to the car wash. There's nobody there.

Speaker 8:
[08:59] It's just gonna be you and me. Old scrubbing bubble down the street. They said they don't rent out for birthday parties, but everyone's got a number.

Speaker 6:
[09:12] That's fucking unbelievable.

Speaker 7:
[09:14] Only 23%.

Speaker 6:
[09:15] I guess, like, I wonder, because I don't think that many people actually spanked their... Because I don't think 77% of people are spanking their kids.

Speaker 7:
[09:24] No, no, no. Wait, where are you getting 77?

Speaker 6:
[09:27] Well, because 23% think it's morally wrong, right, to spank your kids.

Speaker 7:
[09:31] Oh, yeah, yeah, but the 39 said it's not a moral... Oh, shit, yeah, wait, what? 39% say it's not a moral issue. What are they saying?

Speaker 6:
[09:38] What? Yeah, I don't even understand that.

Speaker 7:
[09:40] Oh, crap, I don't know what this... Now I'm even more shattered. That's like saying, it's not a moral issue if I kill this guy over here. That's worse, hold on, that's worse.

Speaker 6:
[09:48] Hitting children is probably not even...

Speaker 7:
[09:50] I'd rather you think you had the right to do it.

Speaker 8:
[09:52] Why are we bringing good guy, bad guy into this serial rape? I'm just...

Speaker 7:
[10:00] Yeah, shit, there's a way in which that's almost more psychopathy. Like you're like, well, no, I'd rather you think it was good.

Speaker 8:
[10:07] I think those people think it's functional. I think those people are like, it's not a moral issue because it's just what one needs to do to train up a child.

Speaker 7:
[10:14] No, that's still bad. I don't even know what I'm hoping for in that situation.

Speaker 6:
[10:18] Yeah, because I think if I thought it was functional and not harmful, then I would be like, yeah, it's a moral thing to do because it's how you get people to do the things and it's fine.

Speaker 7:
[10:30] Okay, maybe the way we can think of it is if someone asked you...

Speaker 6:
[10:33] I don't even understand this.

Speaker 7:
[10:33] Yeah, if someone asks you, is it moral issue to give your kids timeouts or something, you'd be like, well, not really, I guess. Like, I'm trying to get into their mind where they think it's just discipline.

Speaker 8:
[10:44] Right, it's just a thing one must do.

Speaker 7:
[10:45] It's like grounding your kid. Would you think it's moral? I think it was like not really a moral issue. It's just a practical issue of how you're raising your kids, maybe? I don't know.

Speaker 8:
[10:53] You're not supposed to do timeouts now, either.

Speaker 7:
[10:55] Yeah, they're supposed to be short, very short, was the last thing I heard on it. Like, they're supposed to be way shorter than you would think.

Speaker 8:
[11:01] I empathize tremendously with the generation that hit their kids and now don't want to admit that they hit their kids because I'm learning that timeouts are bad. I've never done timeouts. I didn't get to enjoy a timeout before someone told me not to do them, which sucked because I would love to send him to a timeout sometimes. But I do that obfuscation in my brain that I hear them doing about hitting where I'm like, yeah, but you know, I got put in timeout and I'm fine. Turned out okay, turned out good.

Speaker 7:
[11:32] Yeah, I heard that timeouts are bad thing years ago, but I also have heard since then, I don't think people agree on that. I think that's not a consensus yet. Maybe it will be.

Speaker 6:
[11:41] Spanking has been very widely studied, and it's like, that's directly harmful.

Speaker 8:
[11:46] Doctors always get so excited when they finally locked in on something. They were like, the COVID shot fucking works. And then they're like, no, no, no, spanking's bad.

Speaker 7:
[11:54] Yeah. The thing I heard-

Speaker 6:
[11:55] They need more testosterone.

Speaker 7:
[11:57] Is that timeouts shouldn't be any more than a minute for each year they are. That's like the max. So it's like really fast.

Speaker 8:
[12:04] God, that sounds amazing.

Speaker 6:
[12:06] I want a 48 minute timeout.

Speaker 7:
[12:08] I was gonna say one. Yeah. Do you eventually get to earn them? Like, oh dude, give me a timeout.

Speaker 8:
[12:13] I can watch a whole prestige drama in the time of my timeout. That sounds great.

Speaker 7:
[12:17] Isn't that funny that everything that's punishment, like bath, going to bed, nap, like everything we have to force our kids to do is just like, Dear God, let us do it. Sex. I'll take it. My favorite thing is when I have to tell my kids, like, no, you don't get your dessert until you eat all of your checks notes. Pizza. Hey, eat your first dessert before you get your second dessert.

Speaker 8:
[12:41] Eat the most delicious thing.

Speaker 6:
[12:43] You can't have the sweet junk food until after you've had your savory junk food.

Speaker 7:
[12:46] And here's the thing, honestly, that was my knee-jerk reaction where I would just like, oh, no, you can't have until you eat your dinner. And then I'd look at dinner and be like, oh, now I've learned. And so I go, when they ask, like, well, can I have a treat? I look at what the fuck they were eating for dinner. If they're eating pizza, I'm like, yes. Like, I don't even get, you don't have to, pizza is like one of the least healthy things that there is, like fine. If it was like ice cream or pizza, I'm pretty sure ice cream is better.

Speaker 6:
[13:11] Oh, I got to tell you a funny ice cream story real quick. I think I've told you before, like, I have a hard time with ice cream. If I was ice cream in the house, I'll eat the whole container of ice cream because I'm convinced that a pint is a serving. So Haagen Dazs, I found out Haagen Dazs sells, makes a testosterone flavor. I ate a hundred of them. Haagen Dazs sells a single serving little miniature pint shape. So I was ordering groceries and I saw those, and they're like 220 calories. And I ordered some of them.

Speaker 7:
[13:41] You ordered 400 of them. I was like, it's working. I just eat until I die of these.

Speaker 6:
[13:48] This fucking thing shows up. It's like, it's one of those moments where you're like, oh, that's a serving size. And you're like, it's this thing.

Speaker 7:
[13:58] Well, I'm headed for heart surgery soon.

Speaker 6:
[13:59] Yeah, I was like, this is fucking adorable. And it actually makes me want to eat ice cream less because I will hold myself to, I'm only gonna eat one. But now I'm like, well, now it doesn't even feel like a big, splurgy treat.

Speaker 8:
[14:12] I'm gonna eat two bites of ice cream.

Speaker 7:
[14:13] Yeah, that's just like you're sampling it to see if you like the flavor.

Speaker 6:
[14:16] Right, it's just like, hey, do you want just for play? No, what are you talking about? I want just for play.

Speaker 7:
[14:21] A gentle rub atop your pants and no more. That's nothing.

Speaker 6:
[14:26] I'm a grown up, goddammit.

Speaker 7:
[14:28] I'm not even fucking getting out of bed for that. I'm not getting in bed for that.

Speaker 8:
[14:32] I'm fucking this pint of ice cream.

Speaker 7:
[14:34] Yeah, I've mixed my metaphors. One way or the other, I'm going to sleep. That's all I'm saying. I wanna go to bed.

Speaker 8:
[14:39] One way or another, no one's eating this tonight.

Speaker 7:
[14:44] Oh, so anyway, 23% of people, only 23%, oh boy, think it's morally wrong to spank your kids. Cool.

Speaker 6:
[14:54] Using marijuana, same number, 23%, but 52% are like, that's nothing. Why are you saying this?

Speaker 7:
[15:01] Yeah, at least there's that. It's interesting. Now I'm looking at that not a moral issue thing all differently now. When not a moral issue, when it comes to spanking your kids, that's like, oh my god, you're a psychopath. I'm worried. When it's marijuana, I'm like, yeah, you're fucking right. It's not a moral issue, fuck off. You know what I mean? It's crazy how different that answer feels, depending on the thing.

Speaker 6:
[15:20] I guess I would say it's morally acceptable. I don't really understand the distinction between something being morally acceptable and not being a moral issue, really. It's like everything that's not a moral issue is then morally acceptable.

Speaker 7:
[15:31] That's a good point. I'm trying to think, what is the difference? I think the difference is you know that it's like a weighty decision that people will disagree with, maybe, but you're just on the other side of it or something.

Speaker 6:
[15:41] I think it's just a way to be like, that's a stupid question. Why are you asking me that question?

Speaker 7:
[15:45] Having said that, though, I actually think if someone asks, is homosexuality whatever, I think it's better to say that's not a moral issue than to say it's morally acceptable.

Speaker 6:
[15:55] Yeah, because it supposes that it sort of like says, this is a legitimate moral question.

Speaker 7:
[15:59] Right, right, because if you're like, oh, I'm okay, I think it's acceptable that you exist. Just like, no, I don't, you shouldn't even be saying that. That's not, you know what I mean? Whereas, to your point, Tom, I'm trying to think, what's the thing that you should say morally acceptable versus not a moral issue? Shit, I don't know, morally acceptable. Now I don't know, god damn it, this poll is.

Speaker 8:
[16:20] I think you'd say, like, giving your money to charity?

Speaker 7:
[16:24] No, because you're not saying, like, morally laudatory or whatever. You're saying, like, acceptable, right?

Speaker 8:
[16:30] Right, it's not morally wrong, and it's not a moral issue. It is a moral issue.

Speaker 7:
[16:34] I think maybe I would do viewing pornography, I might say, morally acceptable rather than not a moral, eh, man, I don't know, yeah. What would you gentlemen, if you're looking at this list, is this something you would say, morally acceptable versus not a moral issue?

Speaker 8:
[16:47] Homosexuality.

Speaker 7:
[16:48] I think maybe the ending your life, maybe the patient ending their life, because I do think that's like a moral decision, like it's a weighty kind of decision. If you're ending your life, you gotta consider, like, you are, you know, you have the right to, I think.

Speaker 6:
[16:58] Yeah, okay, all right, I think I got it. Like, I think something is morally acceptable. I think, for me, I would draw the distinction if the question itself requires me to think about the impact on other people. So, like, for example, a patient ending their life with the help of a doctor, I have to consider.

Speaker 7:
[17:16] Yeah, your family. So that was kind of what I was getting at.

Speaker 6:
[17:18] And the doctor, right?

Speaker 7:
[17:19] Oh, and the doctor themselves. Good point, yeah, good point.

Speaker 6:
[17:20] The whole system. So there's a whole bunch of people.

Speaker 8:
[17:22] My dentist was such a whiner.

Speaker 7:
[17:25] When I told him to end my life after molesting me. I even told him he could molest me first. Like, whatever, I'm dying.

Speaker 6:
[17:32] Just pet my head a little. So, yeah, so I think maybe that's the right way to think about it.

Speaker 7:
[17:36] Yeah, no, I like that. Yeah, I think that's where I was getting to, Tom. I like that. So, in that case, I think the doctor one I would, I could see if someone answered the death penalty, I could understand it. Yeah, if they were like, hey, it's morally acceptable in these circumstances or something. I at least could see that.

Speaker 6:
[17:51] Yeah, I think it's insane to be like, that a death penalty is not a moral issue. Like, what? What do you, do you know what these words mean?

Speaker 7:
[17:57] Yeah, okay.

Speaker 6:
[17:58] Go get a pretzel.

Speaker 7:
[17:59] Yeah, yeah, it's like you don't even view them as humans. Like, it's just not a moral issue. It's just fucking taking out the garbage. Then you're worse than, then you're a psychopath, I think.

Speaker 8:
[18:07] Okay, can I be the marijuana prude, though?

Speaker 7:
[18:10] Ooh.

Speaker 8:
[18:11] Because I know whenever, if you were to ask me in a vacuum, knowing what I know about marijuana users, if you were like, hey, should someone ever use marijuana on a regular basis? I'd be like, how's the rest of their life going?

Speaker 7:
[18:28] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[18:28] Because here's the thing, the most efficient, hardworking people I know use marijuana all day, every day, nonstop. I also know some people who should stop smoking marijuana now and never smoke it again, because they are fucking it up. There's nothing like talking to someone about losing their kids in a divorce, and then they start to fill a bowl in front of you while they talk about how unfair it is, and you're just like, mm-hmm.

Speaker 7:
[18:56] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[18:57] Yeah. It's 9 a.m. I would agree with that, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[19:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm curious then, does that make it a moral issue? Okay, if someone asks you, using marijuana morally wrong, I guess I could almost see that as maybe I would say morally acceptable or I would say not a moral issue. I don't know. What do you think?

Speaker 6:
[19:13] I don't know that it's a moral issue. I think something can be a good idea or a bad idea without necessarily, like gambling, right? Like, I don't think gambling should be legal. It's a bad idea. Socially speaking, we should be like, hey, this isn't good for the functioning of society, right? Like, we shouldn't do that. So like, but I don't think it's, for moral reasons, I just think it's like, eh.

Speaker 7:
[19:33] I agree. I look at it as like, I don't know, maybe if someone was going to be like, too lazy or something, it's like, I don't really, I mean, just don't do it. I don't know. It's like, it's like life guidance or something.

Speaker 8:
[19:41] There's nothing wrong with the act itself.

Speaker 7:
[19:43] Right.

Speaker 8:
[19:44] But I know lots of people who do that act, and it affects other things that I put a tremendous amount of moral weight on, like how they treat their friends and family.

Speaker 7:
[19:53] Right.

Speaker 6:
[19:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[19:55] But just so we all are on the same page, everybody, it is just as bad to smoke a joint as it is to hit your kid. Literally to hit your fucking kid. That's where our country is.

Speaker 8:
[20:07] But is there anything else that shares that number?

Speaker 7:
[20:09] Hmm.

Speaker 8:
[20:10] Thomas, next on the list.

Speaker 7:
[20:12] Oh, boy. Getting a divorce.

Speaker 8:
[20:15] Shame on you, Tom. Shame.

Speaker 7:
[20:19] Yeah. Eli and I are so moral. We can fucking look down our noses at you.

Speaker 8:
[20:24] Can I say, in the specific case of Tom's divorce, I found that morally laudable?

Speaker 7:
[20:28] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[20:31] Mandatory. If he had not wanted to get divorced, I would have divorced him against his will.

Speaker 7:
[20:37] So that's an interesting one. I actually find this pretty interesting just talking about it. I think now under our new paradigm that we've reached, I think getting a divorce is a moral issue then. You'd say it's like, yes, it's a moral issue, but it is morally acceptable, is probably what I'd say. Because it affects a lot of people, could affect your kids if you're married and have kids. I think it's a moral issue to think about, but it's just is acceptable to do that.

Speaker 6:
[20:57] Oh, absolutely. Because I think it's, my view is like, it is wildly morally unacceptable to not have divorce be available.

Speaker 7:
[21:05] Right, right.

Speaker 6:
[21:06] The inverse of that is like, you've got people stuck in horrible, abusive, shitty situations with no way to get out of them, or miserable, unhappy people, or people that are happy with somebody else and they can't persist, nothing but misery on the other side of the coin, at all. There's a really great joke, it's like divorce is always a good thing. There's no happy couple that ever got divorced.

Speaker 8:
[21:29] Louis CK has that great bit.

Speaker 6:
[21:31] It is a good bit. It is a great bit.

Speaker 8:
[21:33] No one was ever like, everything was great, and we were in love, and then we got divorced.

Speaker 6:
[21:37] Yeah. I mean, he's right, you know? It's like, it's a great bit, but it's like, yeah, it's fucking true.

Speaker 7:
[21:43] You know, I didn't do the split. Do you guys want to guess, if you haven't looked, for the Spanking the Kids, what percentage of Democrats think it's, I guess the question is, yeah, think it's wrong. What percent of Republicans think it's wrong?

Speaker 6:
[21:54] Oh, God. These Democrats are fucking garbage. So I'll say 20% of these idiots think it's wrong.

Speaker 8:
[22:01] I'll say 30%.

Speaker 7:
[22:03] Okay. Do you want to guess the Republican one or just go with that one first?

Speaker 8:
[22:05] I'm going to say 90% of Republicans think it's wrong.

Speaker 7:
[22:07] No, think it's wrong.

Speaker 6:
[22:09] Oh, think it's wrong? Yeah. Four. Four percent of Republicans think it's wrong.

Speaker 8:
[22:14] I'll say 70% of Democrats think it's wrong. And I'll say 10% of Republicans think it's wrong.

Speaker 7:
[22:20] Oh, boy. You know, Eli, you almost nailed it because you said 30 earlier with the Democrats. It's 35 Democrats think it's wrong. 35% and 12% of Republicans think it's wrong.

Speaker 5:
[22:30] That's fucking great.

Speaker 7:
[22:31] Only 35%. This came out recently, right? Yeah, it did. It's from within a year.

Speaker 6:
[22:39] This wasn't like a little house on the prairie pole?

Speaker 7:
[22:41] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[22:43] How do you feel about the Great War? Are you glad that there will never be another?

Speaker 7:
[22:50] The Jewish question is in here? Oh, wait, no, that could apply today.

Speaker 8:
[22:53] No, that's very modern.

Speaker 7:
[22:55] Shit, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 6:
[22:56] Those numbers are moving too.

Speaker 8:
[22:58] Those numbers are moving every day.

Speaker 7:
[22:59] There's one that was like, yeah, the answers were getting better and better until a certain year, and then all of a sudden it's getting worse and worse on the anti-Semitism. But spanking children, only 35% of Democrats slash lean Democrat. So we can assume that they're at least in the ballpark of identifying who that is. I know they have their methods of like, oh, I think it's just by, let me see, I think it's by identification. So I think it's by people saying, they didn't do any other questions to figure out if someone was left, it's just identification, which I think is appropriate in this context. So only 35% of people who identify as Democrat or lean Democrat think spanking your kids is wrong. Like, what are we doing?

Speaker 6:
[23:38] I don't know who those fucking people are. I don't know what they're doing. All right, what's the next one?

Speaker 7:
[23:42] Oh, what was the next one we did? It was, cause there was another one. We did Getting a Divorce.

Speaker 6:
[23:46] No, we did Marijuana.

Speaker 7:
[23:47] Okay, the split, I wanted to do the split on Getting Divorce. Okay, I don't know if you guys want to get, it's actually very similar. Holy shit. Oh, it's very similar, but swapped. Okay, so for Getting a Divorce, 33% of Republicans think it's wrong, 13% of Democrats think it's wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[24:01] Who are these Democrats?

Speaker 7:
[24:02] Honestly, with the other answers we've seen.

Speaker 6:
[24:04] Have you ever met a real person that's like, you know, divorce is morally wrong? A real, like, not a Manosphere person, they're not real, but like an actual person in person?

Speaker 7:
[24:12] Yes, I think there are a significant group of people who think if you have kids, you should never get a divorce. I think there's people who think that. There's people who think that and aren't crazy. Like, I think they just have that, like, view for, I think they're wrong, but like, they have the view that like, you never want to give your kids a split household. It's just so, I think there's a lot of those people, personally, but-

Speaker 6:
[24:30] You want the kids to have as much visibility-

Speaker 7:
[24:32] Fighting and yelling-

Speaker 8:
[24:32] How can you be pro-pornography, but against exposing children to divorce? Who's gonna star in the pornography?

Speaker 10:
[24:41] They gotta think again.

Speaker 7:
[24:43] But given the fact that we have 20% of Democrats who say homosexuality is morally wrong, to only have 13% who say getting a divorce is morally wrong, I'm like, well, what do you, how could that be, like, how could your worldview be that?

Speaker 6:
[24:57] One affects other people. One is, like, none of my fucking business. Like, literally none of my fucking business.

Speaker 7:
[25:02] What is happening here? Okay.

Speaker 9:
[25:10] We're lost, it feels like we're going round in circles.

Speaker 2:
[25:13] I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there, we're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

Speaker 1:
[25:19] Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding, let me get my phone out.

Speaker 11:
[25:26] How is there signal out here?

Speaker 1:
[25:28] T-Mobile and US Cellular are coming together, so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.

Speaker 10:
[25:40] Actually, can you pull up the way to a T-Mobile store?

Speaker 1:
[25:43] America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T-Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T-Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in Hermiston. Best mobile network based on analysis by Oklof Speedtest Intelligence Data Second Half of 2025. Bigger network, the combination of T-Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T-Mobile network's coverage. Price guarantee on talk, text and data. Exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Visit ctmobile.com for details.

Speaker 11:
[26:09] My name is Mackenzie, and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a non-verbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

Speaker 12:
[26:56] GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com. That's gofundme.com. gofundme.com. This podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

Speaker 6:
[27:11] All right, the next one is being extremely rich. Only 18% of people say that's morally wrong.

Speaker 8:
[27:19] The full question is important here, right? Because like we're extremely rich on a global standard.

Speaker 6:
[27:25] Sure, yeah.

Speaker 8:
[27:27] The full question was being extremely rich, for example, having billions of dollars.

Speaker 7:
[27:33] So we got 18% say it's morally wrong, 18% say it's morally acceptable, 63% which is the most of any question, 63% say not a moral issue. Which I think, I guess at least I understand why people would say that, because I don't know, it's just, you know.

Speaker 8:
[27:46] It's such an obviously moral issue.

Speaker 7:
[27:48] Yeah, well, for sure. But I understand why Americans would say that.

Speaker 8:
[27:51] If there are three apples and three little boys, and I have all of them and I can't eat three apples, given an infinite amount of lifetimes, is this a moral question?

Speaker 7:
[28:03] No. No, but I understand why Americans think that way, though. Like, we're just cultured into the...

Speaker 8:
[28:10] We're all gonna end up with the apples, aren't we?

Speaker 7:
[28:12] Even if we don't think that, we think that, like, we've been trained on this fucking mindset that while it's just, you do what you can. Whatever you can attain or obtain, that's what you do, you know?

Speaker 6:
[28:21] And however you can obtain it.

Speaker 8:
[28:23] But can we take a moment? Like, I understand why my grandfather and grandmother, they were wrong, but I understand why my grandmother and grandfather thought JD Rockefeller earned his dollars, right? Because something, something steel mill, right, had his name on the side.

Speaker 7:
[28:39] Like a railroad guy, you had to build a bunch of railroads, sure.

Speaker 8:
[28:41] But the richest man in the world is Elon Musk. I know, I know. Nobody can possibly think it's a meritocracy, the fucking Golem-esque motherfucker is the richest man. I would begin to suspect the opposite. I'd be like, no, I think it might be the-

Speaker 7:
[29:01] The less money you have, the better you are, yeah.

Speaker 6:
[29:03] But here's the problem, here's the problem, is that you are assuming a level of basic reasoning and decency that genuinely very few people actually have. Like, most people don't understand what a billion is. Like, they can't conceive of, they've never actually, like, got out a calculator and done something with a billion as a number.

Speaker 8:
[29:27] They can't press that many zeros, they're too tired, their testosterone's too low.

Speaker 6:
[29:30] Yeah, but I'm being serious, like, they don't understand what a billion is and how numbers work. Like, even at the most elementary level. So they just like, they're like, well, there's nothing wrong with being rich. And it's like, look, there's nothing wrong with, like, being kind of wealthy.

Speaker 7:
[29:47] How rich matters. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6:
[29:49] Right, but, like, there's a level of obscenity to this that is, like, evident. I can show you why it's evident. They're just like, math is for other people. And then, you know, they wander away and, I don't know, chew bricks or whatever people like that do. But that's most people, man.

Speaker 7:
[30:04] I really think, in the left, and I think people are trying to do this, I think we should very much make that distinction. I think people are, but I agree with you, that people need to understand the difference between a fucking billionaire and someone who makes, I don't know, $500,000. Now, that seems very wealthy to me and us and everybody listening, I'm sure. Like, $500,000 seems like, oh, you fucking rich person. But in the world that seems fine, that I think, in the world that we think would make people.

Speaker 5:
[30:32] I'm with you, Tom, let's make this happen.

Speaker 7:
[30:35] In the world that I think would make it better in terms of earning votes, I think if we made very clear, like, hey, in our world, you shouldn't be allowed to be a fucking billionaire. But if you want to have an amazing business and work hard and make a million dollars, that's great. People should be able to have all their needs met because we have so much fucking wealth. And then other people, if they're really, you know, ambitious and they want to have millions of dollars and they actually want to work for it and pay taxes, like, there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 8:
[31:02] Maybe they're hard to sell in their podcast. They deserve it.

Speaker 7:
[31:05] Yeah, there's millionaire podcasters over here.

Speaker 8:
[31:08] Maybe even a billionaire.

Speaker 6:
[31:09] Yeah, it's like, there's less than a thousand billionaires in the United States.

Speaker 7:
[31:15] So we could eat all of them.

Speaker 6:
[31:15] It's not a thousand, we could eat them all. We wouldn't even get full.

Speaker 8:
[31:18] The weird thing that really brought it home for me, because I always knew being a billionaire was a bad thing, but there was a meme or like an article that I read years ago, years ago, that was just, here's the most expensive yacht in the world. Here's the nicest, most expensive house that's sold this year. Here's the most expensive private jet. If you bought all of these for yourself once a year, and you had a billion dollars, you would die before you had spent your billion dollars.

Speaker 7:
[31:46] Jesus Christ.

Speaker 8:
[31:47] And I was like, oh, yeah, this makes sense. That is too much money. Like that, for some reason, that brought home, that's too much money for me.

Speaker 7:
[31:56] No, that's interesting, because I think it puts in, and it's silly, it's insane, but when you think of rich people things, and you think, well, if I bought the best house, if I bought the best fucking private jet and the best yacht, that sort of should be the end of it. Okay, I thought of everything.

Speaker 8:
[32:09] You should be out of money, yes.

Speaker 7:
[32:11] You don't need to have, maybe you have a little bit left, but you shouldn't need to never run out.

Speaker 8:
[32:17] You should have like ramen money left after. You should be wandering around your mansion with cup of noodle. Being like, this is too big. I don't know this many people. And the microwave is all the way over there. I'm tired.

Speaker 6:
[32:31] If you had a billion dollars and you did nothing with it, but buy fucking CDs, certificates of deposit, and you got a 3.5% yield on it, you make $35 million a year.

Speaker 7:
[32:45] That's too much.

Speaker 6:
[32:46] People don't understand how the number works. It's $35 million a year, and you invested it like an asshole.

Speaker 7:
[32:54] That's it.

Speaker 6:
[32:55] You did exactly all the wrong things, and you're like, I still made $35 million.

Speaker 7:
[33:00] Here's my question for you now. I think this is a genuine question now, because here's what I keep hearing. When you're looking at Mackenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos' ex, she's the one good billionaire. She got billions from the divorce. Or maybe, I think she had some money, but not billions. She's just giving it all away. She's just actually giving it all away. Now, given the climate we're in, given the fucking ecosystem we're in, part of me is like, if you're a good billionaire, I actually don't want you to give it away now. I want you to buy elections. If you're a good billionaire, I kind of want you to-

Speaker 6:
[33:34] Yeah, buy the right elections.

Speaker 7:
[33:35] Right, yeah, because all we have are the bad ones buying our political system. And then the good ones are like, well, I want to give my money to people who deserve it. It's like, yeah, no, I agree. But now I'm to the point where maybe the better-

Speaker 6:
[33:48] Timing?

Speaker 7:
[33:49] Yeah, the better use of money might be, well, maybe you use your billions to fix the system so that the system overall is better. I don't even know, but that also sucks. I kind of think whenever I hear the good billionaire, and there's like two that are just giving their money away, and it's just to charities, and I'm like, okay, that's great. But maybe buy an election or two. Maybe buy yourself a congressman.

Speaker 8:
[34:10] I would definitely do some, here's the thing, and I think this is important too, because I often think about, because I deserve a billion dollars, I often think about what I would do with it. I would do some weird shit, and no billionaires ever have done any fun weird shit.

Speaker 7:
[34:27] Think about that. Being Louis CK. Bits, yeah. The one where he's like, I would just buy all the pants. No more pants. Yeah! That sounds great.

Speaker 6:
[34:34] When I was a kid, I used to think that if I got rich, I would want to buy Rhode Island, just to own a whole state, and then I could do whatever I wanted with it. Just like buy everything there. I mean, I was like, meh.

Speaker 8:
[34:46] Look at Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein is the only one who had a fuck island that we know of, right? He's the only one who had a island.

Speaker 6:
[34:53] I'm very nervous about it.

Speaker 7:
[34:54] Yeah, where's this going?

Speaker 8:
[34:55] Well, listen to Let Me Sting.

Speaker 6:
[34:57] Is your hand on the 10 second thing?

Speaker 8:
[34:58] Let me weave my tail. So we've all, because fuck island is definitely in the cards for all of us, right?

Speaker 7:
[35:08] So he has a rape island. You mean a fuck island and a rape island. It's not a island. There is a big difference. Two different islands. Totally different islands.

Speaker 8:
[35:16] It's the worst possible fuck island.

Speaker 7:
[35:18] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8:
[35:18] It's an anti-fuck island.

Speaker 7:
[35:20] A fuck island where you're like, hey, consensual people, do you want to go fuck on an island? They're like, that sounds great.

Speaker 8:
[35:26] I would put a billboard in New York Times that just said, I'll give you a million dollars to come to island.

Speaker 7:
[35:32] There's other people there, I want my own...

Speaker 6:
[35:35] Just fucking yourself on the island?

Speaker 7:
[35:37] I'm just masturbating on this island.

Speaker 6:
[35:40] Rotorouts.

Speaker 8:
[35:42] You could create the perfect, most consensual, you literally just have to have a second Burning Man on an island, and you've basically created the second most consensual.

Speaker 6:
[35:52] I feel like I'll just go to Burning Man and someone else will clean up.

Speaker 7:
[35:54] You could have like armed consent soldiers that are like, it.

Speaker 8:
[35:58] Yes, everyone could have a consent coach that just follows them around and is like...

Speaker 7:
[36:02] Worm troopers that just blast you at the minute.

Speaker 9:
[36:04] Exactly.

Speaker 6:
[36:05] I feel weird about consent soldiers now, too. I don't know that.

Speaker 9:
[36:08] Consent soldiers.

Speaker 8:
[36:09] I know you're screaming.

Speaker 7:
[36:10] They'd be child soldiers. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 8:
[36:11] Yeah, there's all the things. And everyone does the same insane shit. Well, first of all, they're all money hoarders, which is why they have a billion dollars.

Speaker 7:
[36:20] I think that's right. I think you have to have something missing from you to want that much money. I really do.

Speaker 6:
[36:25] A hundred percent. You're broken inside.

Speaker 7:
[36:27] I'm not talking about in theory. I'm not talking about like fantasizing about having a bunch of money. I'm talking about the fucking nuts and bolts of what it takes in your life to get that much money, to actually go through with all those things. I think you have to have something wrong with you. You have to have something missing.

Speaker 8:
[36:42] Because you have to start with all the money you could ever spend in your life. You have to get to that point, and then your Tony D is like, hey man, what next? And you're like, number go up more. And they're like, you sure? You sure you don't want to just eat it per se, three meals?

Speaker 7:
[36:57] Man, that was one of my favorite parts of Breaking Bad was when Skyler's like, all right, we've got the fucking thing full of cash. I can't even do anything with it. You want more? More of this? You gotta get more of this? I thought that was a really good moment in that show where it was like, oh yeah, he's an asshole. He has no reason to be doing this.

Speaker 6:
[37:16] He's broken. At some point, what you're doing now is you're keeping score, but you're not just keeping score. I was talking to somebody about this at work the other day. The problem is you're not just keeping score, you're keeping score and hurting other people at the same time. Because there's no world where you're accumulating that much wealth and being like, you know, I could help. I could be a benevolent god, but I would rather be an indifferent god.

Speaker 7:
[37:39] And the people you are trying to score points against are the worst fucking people. That's the thing. It's one thing to be like, oh, I'm competitive with my friends about something. But your in-group that you're trying to score points against are the fellow worst psychopaths on the planet. It's the worst.

Speaker 8:
[37:55] Imagine Mark Zuckerberg wanting anything and going, oh, I want that too.

Speaker 7:
[38:00] Come on!

Speaker 6:
[38:02] It's like if Thomas' hockey team is like, all right, here's the thing. I'm going to try to score as many points as possible because I like the points. I just want the points. I don't need them. I already have plenty. I just want a lot of points. Now, the other team, the other team, now, if I win, if I get a lot of points, they actually have to sleep outside and can't eat food. Also, they didn't agree to it. Also, they did not agree to be in this game.

Speaker 7:
[38:23] And I'm like, no, I still want to try though.

Speaker 8:
[38:25] And it's a peewee league.

Speaker 6:
[38:30] Now, I don't know if I told anybody, but I started this game with 3 million points. I did start with 3 million points.

Speaker 7:
[38:35] My dad, if you do anything other than hitting the puck into your own net as fast as you could to score points for the children that are starving on the other side, if you do anything other than that, you're horrible. You should literally be forming a team of people to score on yourself as fast as possible.

Speaker 6:
[38:52] So have we decided? Not a moral issue.

Speaker 8:
[38:54] Yeah, not a moral issue. We all agree.

Speaker 6:
[38:57] Not a moral issue. Oh boy.

Speaker 9:
[39:05] We're lost, it feels like we're going round in circles.

Speaker 2:
[39:08] I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there, we're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

Speaker 1:
[39:14] Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding, let me get my phone out. How is there signal out here? T-Mobile and US Cellular are coming together, so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.

Speaker 10:
[39:35] Actually, can you pull up the way to a T-Mobile store?

Speaker 1:
[39:38] America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T-Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T-Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in Hermiston. Best mobile network based on analysis by Oklof Speedtest Intelligence Data Second Half of 2025. Bigger network, the combination of T-Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T-Mobile network's coverage. Price guarantee on talk, text and data. Exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See tmobile.com for details.

Speaker 6:
[40:06] All right, let's move on. Drinking alcohol.

Speaker 7:
[40:08] Drinking alcohol.

Speaker 6:
[40:09] It's the same as marijuana. I don't understand why there's a distinction.

Speaker 8:
[40:12] Which religion are you in?

Speaker 7:
[40:14] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[40:15] Drinking is bad.

Speaker 7:
[40:16] I think, okay, if I were to sympathize maximally with the drinking alcohol being morally wrong, I think, and it's only 16%, I think there's at least that many people who have been really badly affected by somebody being an alcoholic piece of shit. So I'll probably forgive those people for being like, yeah, you shouldn't ever do it.

Speaker 6:
[40:34] I put it like gambling, though. It's like, I think, like genuinely, I kind of agree, like I think socially, alcohol does a lot of harms. I don't think there's actually any dispute about that.

Speaker 7:
[40:43] I got a question for you, Tom.

Speaker 6:
[40:43] Alcohol is a bad drug.

Speaker 7:
[40:44] Tom, if you had to rank these, the alcohol, the gambling, and porn, where do you compare? Because I was just thinking, like in terms of alcohol, I could see being like-

Speaker 6:
[40:52] Alcohol, porn, gambling.

Speaker 7:
[40:53] Oh, interesting.

Speaker 6:
[40:54] In terms of harms, social harms?

Speaker 7:
[40:56] Okay, yeah, no, that makes sense. I think gambling. But numbers-wise, I think is the interesting thing, because pornography, as we covered before, is so, is the second highest, like 52%.

Speaker 6:
[41:06] Well, people are worked up about sex stuff.

Speaker 7:
[41:08] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6:
[41:09] Like a fucking-

Speaker 7:
[41:10] So I just wanted to, I was trying to see, you wouldn't agree with that prioritizing of-

Speaker 6:
[41:15] No.

Speaker 7:
[41:15] Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 8:
[41:16] All right, now we finally have one that I agree with. The nation joins hands with me. 9%, including Eli Bosnick, know that it is morally wrong to use IVF. I'm tired of meeting your twins and pretending you just had twins. You didn't just have twins.

Speaker 7:
[41:38] Twins, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 8:
[41:39] We waited so long to have kids, and then we had twins. No, you didn't.

Speaker 7:
[41:42] You're 53. You didn't.

Speaker 8:
[41:45] That's like Tom just being like, look at my testosterone levels. Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 6:
[41:48] It's naturally like this.

Speaker 8:
[41:50] It just comes out of my eyeballs when I don't sleep.

Speaker 7:
[41:55] Now, that's one where I feel like the answer is not a moral issue, right? Is that a...

Speaker 6:
[41:58] Well, I don't know.

Speaker 7:
[41:59] For you and I. I could get people who are like, oh, because the little fucking blastocyst or whatever.

Speaker 6:
[42:05] I think if you know how a science is, then it's not a moral issue, right?

Speaker 7:
[42:10] No, I'm not surprised at the country. I'm saying for us. For us, would you say not a moral issue? I think I would say.

Speaker 8:
[42:14] Do you think the 9% are the people who are like, IVF is wrong because you should be adopting?

Speaker 7:
[42:19] Well, I'm surprised it's this low because there was the Republican MAGA push toward that a little bit with the because it's just the next thing people want to go for.

Speaker 6:
[42:27] Those are just the lunatics, man. Like everybody else is like, look, we don't want to call attention to our internal inconsistencies.

Speaker 7:
[42:33] Yeah, but fucking 52% of people said that pornography is more like, you know, like, actually, look at the next one.

Speaker 8:
[42:41] Because they're sure they can still get it.

Speaker 7:
[42:42] Look at the next one using contraceptives, 8%. Like, I'm just surprised it's that low on IVF.

Speaker 8:
[42:48] It's harder than that, too. They feel weird.

Speaker 7:
[42:51] It's morally wrong how weird they feel.

Speaker 8:
[42:53] It's morally wrong. If you think about it, you violated my consent, because I don't want to.

Speaker 7:
[43:02] So with the number of people who think that abortion is killing a baby, but they're not against IVF? You know what I mean?

Speaker 6:
[43:11] Yeah, but what you're trying to square a circle that these people are like, look, at the end of the day, I'd get the abortion, too.

Speaker 7:
[43:17] Oh, I know.

Speaker 6:
[43:17] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[43:18] No, I'm saying they're hypocrites.

Speaker 6:
[43:19] The IVF is like, the IVF serves me. I want to make sure I have my actions.

Speaker 8:
[43:22] I'm having an affair, I'm watching porn with my mistress, then she gets pregnant, we have an abortion, then my wife gets IVF to get pregnant because I'm too old.

Speaker 7:
[43:31] No, also they're like, all right, sir, you need to go and jack off into this cup in order to do this fucking artificial dissemination or something, and like, oh, I can't look at porn when I'm doing that.

Speaker 8:
[43:40] Can't look at porn, I just gotta do it.

Speaker 7:
[43:42] That would be a sin.

Speaker 8:
[43:43] Just gonna rot on my imagination. Tell me you don't have depression without telling me you don't have depression that you could jerk off with that. The notion that I could spend any time alone with my thoughts, and it does time alone with my thoughts masturbating and it doesn't turn into self-atrient.

Speaker 7:
[44:02] Yeah, but I thought that's part of it for you.

Speaker 8:
[44:04] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[44:06] That doesn't make you come right away.

Speaker 8:
[44:08] And then 4% right down here at the bottom.

Speaker 7:
[44:11] Yep. The one thing.

Speaker 8:
[44:13] Understand that needing me to say.

Speaker 7:
[44:14] Actually, probably, I'm trying to look at all the things. We got death penalty, I guess, maybe. Being extremely rich. Okay. I'm trying to think, what's our rank? If we had to re-rank these fucking things, because married people having an affair was top. And I know it's a little bit different than people's priorities because it's just the number of people who say.

Speaker 8:
[44:33] We're doing the Dear Old Dads finalists. Okay, so I think we can all agree the worst thing on here is the death penalty.

Speaker 7:
[44:39] Or being extremely rich, honestly. Yeah, I guess it depends on how you see it.

Speaker 8:
[44:43] You can be extremely rich without killing people.

Speaker 6:
[44:46] I think we should do S-tier. It's going to be hard to rank.

Speaker 8:
[44:49] Okay, S-tier bads are being extremely rich, spanking children, and the death penalty.

Speaker 7:
[44:58] Yeah, that's S-tier.

Speaker 8:
[45:00] Then A-tier, these things are bad, but sometimes you gotta marry people.

Speaker 7:
[45:05] So for me, I think eating meat would be next on that, right?

Speaker 8:
[45:08] Yeah, eating meat.

Speaker 6:
[45:09] Eating meat is objectively wrong, and I like meat.

Speaker 7:
[45:11] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[45:12] I don't think, like morally speaking, that's a circle I can square.

Speaker 7:
[45:15] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[45:16] I just recognize that I do it because I like it, and it's wrong, but I like it anyway.

Speaker 7:
[45:20] When I ate meat, I said that. I was like, I think it's morally wrong, but I do it anyway. But the fact that there's only 4% of our fucking country, there's only one of these things, which one, don't let me exaggerate, maybe I'm wrong. There is one of these things that we've talked about. We've now done two episodes on these things. How many items are there, like 15 or so? There's one that there's a stereotype of how these people are so fucking annoying, and all they do is talk about how you shouldn't eat meat and blah, blah, blah. And it's the thing that's the bottom of the list that no one gives a shit about.

Speaker 6:
[45:50] No one cares.

Speaker 7:
[45:50] No one cares.

Speaker 6:
[45:52] Dude, even weirder, 54% of people are like, that's not even a moral issue. Eating meat doesn't even interact with moral issues.

Speaker 8:
[45:59] Why would killing something sentient and eating its flesh be moral?

Speaker 6:
[46:03] See, I'll say, I actually don't really care too much about that, but I do think that there's real harms, like climate control harms that we are not contending with. And I also think there's real harms in terms of the spread of disease that we are not contending with, that these things just have massive downstream effects. So even if I move away from the harm to the animal itself, it's like, what if I'm just considering human interactions? It's like, yeah, it's not good.

Speaker 7:
[46:29] Guys, I know, for me, it's all one podcast, and I apologize, because it is all one podcast for me. I'm a broken record. It's Reactionary Assholes is the podcast for me. It's just so telling to me that the least controversial issue on here, least controversial, 4%, only 4% say eating meat is morally wrong. That's one, and it's not the only thing, I guess, that's one where there's an entire fucking industry of people talking about how annoying the PETA people are and the vegan people, they're so annoying and they always are like putting their views on everybody. They're always judging you. That's what's wrong with our society is that the things that fucking literally no one disagrees with you on, like being white and being Christian and fucking eating meat. It's like those things are the things that people think are a threat, like the Trump administration thinks it's like under threat. They have a whole civil rights division for being a white Christian now, you know, cause you're so fucking discriminated against. Eating meat is right on there. There's a whole stereotype of how horrible the people who are against it are. And it's the most agreed upon thing. Like it's the least threat to you. It's so crazy.

Speaker 6:
[47:32] I do think it is because people don't want to contend with their cognitive dissonance on the issue. Our nanny that worked for us for years, she was a vegan, and she was not preachy about it at all. In fact, like it went the other direction. I would tease her occasionally about like, you know, not eating real food. I was like, stupid, boring jokes.

Speaker 7:
[47:50] You have to torture it out of Eli to even talk about the fact that he's vegan. He never talks about it. Unless it's a topic of the conversation.

Speaker 8:
[47:58] Unless I'm desperately trying to order at a restaurant without getting diarrhea.

Speaker 6:
[48:03] And Eli, if you go out with Eli, Eli will book restaurants with your eating habits in mind, even if they don't have good vegan options. He's done that for groups of people that I've been with him on. He'd be like, oh, like, this place is supposed to have a great steak or whatever it happens to be. He'll look up things that he is morally objecting to in order to make other people more comfortable. That is how not annoying he is about that issue.

Speaker 7:
[48:28] It just goes to show how twisted, like humans suck, our priorities are so wrong, we get so threatened by something that's not even a threat, and then people build their entire politics out of it. Now, not necessarily the meat thing, but people would build their whole politics out of being worried that Christianity is under threat because there's like three people that are like, hey, fucking Christianity sucks, you know?

Speaker 6:
[48:47] So, let's bring this to parenting real quick, because I'm curious. When I was a kid growing up, my dad and I would have long and lengthy debate style conversations about moral issues like this, about the death penalty and about, and he would always just kind of take whatever the opposite position was, and we would just gently kind of debate back and forth on these things. We did it a lot, we did it all the time. And I think for me, it was a very useful way to understand my own thoughts, have somebody probe, somebody that I trusted and that I thought was a smart person, somebody that I thought had a good sense of his own morals and his own self probe at my ideas as a young person. And I look at this and I'm like, all right, people aren't doing that, right? That's not how people are arriving at their conclusions. I look at this list and they're just stupid. I have to say, at some point, if you're like, contraception, oh, I don't know, God don't, you're a stupid person. There's no way you're not genuinely functionally stupid, right? There's nothing else for you. You're garbage and you should just be thrown in a sandpit.

Speaker 7:
[49:58] Man, you ever think about that? I think about that almost similar to the billionaire thing point I made a moment ago, where I'm like, well, at this point, the billionaires need to just buy elections because you can't start. I have this twang. I don't do it, but I have this twang of feeling when it comes to this, because what I want to do as a parent is exactly what you're talking about, Tom, where when we talk about some of these deeper issues with the kids, I don't want to just prescribe to them the right thing. I don't want to just be like, yep, we're in this house. We do that. I don't fucking, you know, I mean, unless it's something that's a good, we do it in this house, you don't hit. Like I do, that's the one thing. Like you don't hit people. We just don't hit people. We don't do that. But beyond that, I would want to be like, yeah, take them through it. You want your kid to develop thinking, you know, like develop, like being able to contend with these ideas. But part of me, I just had this thought of like, fuck, it's just the people who are assholes are too sure of themselves, and the people who are cool are not sure enough of themselves. Are we just to the point where Mackenzie Scott, just fucking, we just gotta give our morals, we gotta buy the morals of our kids. We gotta, we gotta use dirty money to just tell our kids, no, be certain that this thing is good or bad. And I don't want to do that, but it sort of feels like that's the kind of thing you're talking about, Tom, where it's like the people who are really thoughtful, the people who are gonna engage in that kind of thing, I think we're never as sure of ourselves as the people who are like, no, porn wrong, divorce wrong, homosexuality wrong. It's stupid, it sucks.

Speaker 6:
[51:24] Here's the thing, there is no way you can articulate a position much less defend it on this stuff, right? So they haven't even been asked to do that. They're just like, well, I gotta, I got a feeling, I got a feeling down deep in my tum tum, and that's where my thoughts come from. I'm like, okay, all right, whatever.

Speaker 7:
[51:41] Last point on this, lest we think there's like a big partisan divide. When you look at the eating meat, the number of people, Democrats, who say it's morally wrong, 6%, Republicans, 2%. Fuckers, you universally think it's fine to eat meat. Universally, stop being fucking worried about the 3 people who don't eat meat. Jesus Christ!

Speaker 8:
[52:11] All right, gentlemen, before we go, my son said, what rhymes with orange? I pondered for a moment and I told him, no, it doesn't.

Speaker 10:
[52:35] Send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and All the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm Shows. Edited and produced by my favorite dill, Thomas Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues, LLC, copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

Speaker 8:
[53:09] That's right, if you've ever heard an auto ad, you'll never live in Christ's grace.

Speaker 6:
[53:15] You gotta whack them.

Speaker 7:
[53:17] A gentle rub atop your pants and no more. What's her name again? You know, Jeff Bezos' ex-wife that...

Speaker 8:
[53:26] The Pow Pow Fish.

Speaker 7:
[53:27] Wait, that's her? What, wait, what? She looks like the Pow Pow Fish. No, ex-wife.

Speaker 8:
[53:32] Yeah, she looks like the Pow Pow Fish.

Speaker 6:
[53:34] I have no idea.

Speaker 7:
[53:34] Sorry, Mackenzie Scott? I don't know. No, I don't.

Speaker 8:
[53:39] I know what she looks like. She looks like the Pow Pow Fish.

Speaker 7:
[53:41] I don't think... Can you look her up right now, so I have any idea what you're talking about? Anyway.

Speaker 8:
[53:47] If you think about it, you violated my consent because I don't want to.

Speaker 9:
[53:52] We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles.

Speaker 2:
[53:55] I'm going to ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

Speaker 1:
[54:01] Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road.

Speaker 4:
[54:06] No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1:
[54:07] Let me get my phone out.

Speaker 11:
[54:08] How is their signal out here?

Speaker 1:
[54:10] T-Mobile and US. Cellular are coming together, so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five-year price guarantee, too. Okay, here's the turn.

Speaker 10:
[54:22] Actually, can you pull up the way to a T-Mobile store?

Speaker 1:
[54:25] America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T-Mobile today and get built-in benefits the other guys leave out, plus our five-year price guarantee. And now T-Mobile is available at US. Cellular stores in Hermiston. The best mobile network based on analysis by Okloaf, Speedtest Intelligence, data second half of 2025. Bigger network. The combination of T-Mobiles and US. Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T-Mobile network's coverage. Price guarantee on talk, text and data. Exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See tmobile.com for details.