transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Kayak gets my flight, hotel and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong.

Speaker 2:
[00:07] Bro, Skycoin, way better than points.

Speaker 3:
[00:10] Never fly during a Scorpio full moon.

Speaker 4:
[00:13] Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade.

Speaker 1:
[00:17] Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with Kayak and get your trip right.

Speaker 4:
[00:23] Bad advice?

Speaker 5:
[00:24] You're talking to me.

Speaker 1:
[00:25] Kayak. Got that right.

Speaker 4:
[00:29] So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere?

Speaker 5:
[00:34] Anywhere.

Speaker 4:
[00:35] What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris?

Speaker 1:
[00:38] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[00:38] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 4:
[00:40] Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Touloume?

Speaker 5:
[00:43] Hilton Honors, baby.

Speaker 4:
[00:45] What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives?

Speaker 5:
[00:48] Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties?

Speaker 2:
[00:52] When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Book your spring break now.

Speaker 6:
[01:19] Hello, welcome back to The Prestige TV Podcast. We're joined by Joanna Robinson.

Speaker 7:
[01:22] I am Rob Mahoney.

Speaker 6:
[01:23] Rob, there's a rot and a fresh corpse in the mulch.

Speaker 7:
[01:26] There is, fertilizer.

Speaker 6:
[01:27] Yeah, okay, listen. It's beef, it's the end of beef. Episode seven and eight, we're here to wrap it up. If you didn't know, we covered all of beef already in two other parts, so you can listen to part one, part two, this is part three, the conclusion of beef. So if you not concluded beef, I guess I spoiled that there's a corpse in the mulch, but also...

Speaker 7:
[01:47] Don't think that's a spoiler.

Speaker 6:
[01:49] Here we are. Program reminders, I will just say we're covering euphoria right now, so that's an ongoing thing. When will those euphoria episodes drop? Tune in to find out. We would love to know. There's some stuff going on. Tune in to find out, but we're hoping as soon as possible. Where can people see social stuff from us, Rob Mahoney?

Speaker 7:
[02:10] They can find us on Instagram and TikTok at PrestigeTVPod. They can also, I think most crucially, Jo, go to YouTube, watch us on the Ringer TV YouTube channel in general for this episode and all episodes, but in particular, for the pits that goes out there who are really fiending, who are struggling after the season two finale.

Speaker 6:
[02:28] Or like, where's your mailbag episode, guys?

Speaker 7:
[02:32] Just clawing at the veins on their arms, wanting something pit-related. Our own Kai Grady has created an incredible video essay that I contributed to.

Speaker 6:
[02:41] Narrated by Rob Mahoney.

Speaker 7:
[02:43] Narrated by Rob Mahoney about the visual language of the pit.

Speaker 6:
[02:46] And it's very cool.

Speaker 7:
[02:47] It was a great joy to make and to work with Kai on this. But in particular, just seeing Kai come into his multi-hyphenated era, you know, producer, writer, spiritual leader, videographer. I mean, he wears many hats around here, but on this project in particular.

Speaker 6:
[03:01] Our queen bee, Kai Grady.

Speaker 7:
[03:03] Without a doubt.

Speaker 6:
[03:03] Furry, you know. Yeah, please check that out. And if you want to email us about your lingering beef thoughts, I mean, this is our last beef episode, so good luck. But PrestigeTV at spotify.com. If they want to email us about euphoria thoughts, Rob, what is that?

Speaker 7:
[03:17] Still PrestigeTV at spotify.com.

Speaker 6:
[03:19] Or Matty's number one boy at gmail.com.

Speaker 7:
[03:21] I suppose.

Speaker 6:
[03:21] Whichever you prefer. That is all I have to say about that. So we're covering the hour of separation and it will stay this way. And you will obey the last two episodes of Beef season two. We have a quick mailbag because we did get some beef e-mails from our listeners. The first one, I'm not going to call this person out, but basically someone was like, hey, I don't believe that you like this show. Please be honest. This show isn't very good. And I just want to say, just like as a blanket statement, here's how you know when we don't like a show. A, we don't cover it. That's the number one way you can know.

Speaker 7:
[03:54] B, we stop covering it.

Speaker 6:
[03:55] Radio silence. That's how you know. Or we will be honest. Like, what do you think is the show, the show that we bring up, like, is sort of our short cut for a show we covered that we didn't really like, would be Disclosure, I think. Like, there were things to enjoy about Disclosure.

Speaker 7:
[04:10] Disclaimer.

Speaker 6:
[04:11] Disclaimer, sorry, disclaimer.

Speaker 7:
[04:12] I do that all the time. I do that all the time. It's impossible.

Speaker 6:
[04:14] There are things that we enjoyed about Disclamer, but there was a lot we didn't, and I think we were pretty honest about it. So that's what it sounds like when we don't really like a show we're covering.

Speaker 7:
[04:21] I think we've been quite unsparing when the situation calls for it.

Speaker 6:
[04:25] So we're never lying. And please, let me reassure you, in the time of the Pitt finale and the Euphoria premiere, we didn't have to cover, we were not lacking for content.

Speaker 7:
[04:35] This is for the love of the game.

Speaker 6:
[04:36] We just really liked the show. We'll talk about whether or not we liked episodes seven and eight. That's another question. Also, I don't know if I talked to you about this before. Were you ever a Flight of the Conchords person?

Speaker 7:
[04:47] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[04:48] Okay. There's the sort of...

Speaker 7:
[04:50] Wait, wait, let me qualify. Because there are levels of Flight of the Conchords people. I am HBO show fluent, interested in the music.

Speaker 6:
[04:58] Right. Not attending all the live shows or anything.

Speaker 7:
[05:01] No, but there are like lyrics lodged in my head about hippopotami, et cetera, that are just going to be there forever. But I know some people, it's like, it's a whole thing for them in terms of their lifestyle. And I wouldn't go that far.

Speaker 6:
[05:13] Yeah. I would not say a Flight of the Conchords is my lifestyle or my religion or anything like that, but I was a real Flight of the Conchords HBO show fan. And the foodie fafa, the French song they sing, when they go like, Imantel la voyage à la supermarchée and they're like, pomple mousse, ananas. So we got a couple of emails of people just titling it Boof, which is beef and French.

Speaker 7:
[05:36] And that's the way you hear it.

Speaker 6:
[05:37] That's how I have been saying beef in my head this entire time. I've just spared you on the podcast, but I call it Boof in my own head and I just thought I would share that with you.

Speaker 7:
[05:46] Well, this is your last opportunity. So I implore you, Jo, anytime you want to say beef throughout this pod, give it the proper pronunciation.

Speaker 6:
[05:53] Give it the ginger that it deserves. All right. Jay wrote in to say, for your quest for frutopia, which we talked about, and we got a lot of feedback on your Leonardo DiCaprio events that you do. Very helpful. Furtopia apparently is a fountain drink option in Canadian McDonald's. That's what Jay wrote in to let us know and sent us like a photo of the menu. And so Jay wrote, Rob, Canada will host your Leo party. November 11th also happens to be Remembrance Day here, our Veterans Day. It's our Veterans Day as well. But like, how would you feel about relocating the Leo project to Canada just for the fountain frutopia?

Speaker 7:
[06:29] Amazingly open to it. But it just needs to be a place where there's readily accessible quality pasta and frutopia, which I assume is very doable.

Speaker 6:
[06:37] I've had great pasta in Vancouver, actually. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[06:39] I mean, honestly, Vancouver, very high on my list of places to visit.

Speaker 6:
[06:42] Gorgeous. Several people wrote in with an idea of what to call. And they seem to have landed on Leo de Capri-thon, but that just does not roll off the tongue. It's easier to type than it is to say. Plus, they're going for like decathlon, marathon sort of thing. De Capri-thon, it's not really working for me.

Speaker 7:
[07:01] It's grasping at something good, but I also think it misrepresents what the day has become, which is we are too old and washed. At least, I am failing to convince my friends to watch multiple movies.

Speaker 6:
[07:12] Oh, I know that you could watch movies all day.

Speaker 7:
[07:14] I'm locked in. If you just want to run basketball diaries back three times in a row, I'm going to find something to enjoy about screening three. It's just a tough sell sometimes for normal people with lives and children to lock in for multiple Leonardo DiCaprio movies.

Speaker 6:
[07:28] Couldn't be me. We got an email from our listener, Jordan. Is this your actual friend, Jordan? This is what it sounds like possibly in this email. Do you have a pal named Jordan?

Speaker 7:
[07:36] I mean, I know people named Jordan.

Speaker 6:
[07:38] This email says, Rob, come on now. It's called Leonardo DiCaprio. Then it says, You're welcome, brother. PS. That's for breaking my TV, bro. Is this a real Jordan or is that a reference I'm not getting?

Speaker 7:
[07:51] I think that's a reference that I'm also not getting.

Speaker 6:
[07:53] That's for breaking my TV, bro.

Speaker 7:
[07:54] First of all, I've never broken anybody's TV, much less a Jordan.

Speaker 6:
[07:56] That you'll cop to.

Speaker 7:
[07:58] I would never.

Speaker 6:
[07:59] Jordan, follow up email. Let me know what that was a reference to.

Speaker 7:
[08:01] The only thing I would do to anybody's TV.

Speaker 6:
[08:02] Sometimes your real-life friends do email this podcast.

Speaker 7:
[08:05] Me, too. Unfortunately, the lines do blur, and they're really trying to infiltrate my work life over here. The only thing I would ever do to somebody's TV is, I will go in and turn off motion smoothing. That is just who I am.

Speaker 6:
[08:17] Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 7:
[08:18] But I would never break somebody's TV.

Speaker 6:
[08:19] With their consent or not.

Speaker 7:
[08:21] Well, if they.

Speaker 6:
[08:22] No, no, exactly.

Speaker 7:
[08:23] Yeah, if they pretend they don't see it, and I say pretend because who couldn't, I will change it while they're in the bathroom.

Speaker 6:
[08:27] What was really annoying to me in this move is as I was setting up the TV in the new place, every single time that I adjusted something, I had to re-turn off the motion smoothing on my OLED TV. OLED, don't do that. So, you know, there you go. Okay. Michelle wrote in to say, so happy you're covering Beef Season 2, just wanted you to know that when Rob said, who but Oscar Isaac could pull off that haircut, I was in my car yelling, Whitaker, back at you guys. But seriously, he's been rocking it all season to not as hot results as Oscar, but it does work for him. And I really agree. Whitaker and the mini mullet, it's working.

Speaker 7:
[08:58] I don't think it's working.

Speaker 6:
[08:59] You don't think so on Whitaker?

Speaker 7:
[09:01] For Dennis? No.

Speaker 6:
[09:02] Wow, don't call him Vice Christian.

Speaker 7:
[09:05] Only when he has this particular haircut.

Speaker 6:
[09:06] Is it because you know that he is so about that farm life that you feel like the mullet takes on a different tone when it's a farm boy rocking it?

Speaker 7:
[09:16] I actually think people who do work on a farm wouldn't have this kind of mullet. It feels like a very-

Speaker 6:
[09:21] It's a fashion mullet.

Speaker 7:
[09:22] It's definitely a fashion mullet, definitely an adoption of a certain lifestyle. It's a co-option is what it is, and I don't appreciate it.

Speaker 6:
[09:29] Yeah, their culture is not your costume, as you like to say.

Speaker 7:
[09:33] That part is not my culture, nor anyone's costume.

Speaker 6:
[09:35] How did you feel about the prisonification of Oscar Isaac's micro mullet in this? We got the grease back into the mullet look in the prison sequence.

Speaker 7:
[09:45] I am into it.

Speaker 6:
[09:45] Okay, you like that.

Speaker 7:
[09:46] I am into it.

Speaker 6:
[09:47] All right. Derek wrote in to ask, I'd love to know what actor would you have wanted to make a brief cameo as Lindsay's brother, the Pulitzer Prize winning author of Bloom's Gully. Derek suggested Ben Whishaw, which is a great suggestion.

Speaker 7:
[09:59] That would be super funny.

Speaker 6:
[10:00] I'm always pro Ben.

Speaker 7:
[10:01] Of course.

Speaker 6:
[10:02] This is a Whishaw friendly podcast. What's your answer?

Speaker 7:
[10:07] I have two, and they're both in the vein of Oscar Isaac himself has played Carey Mulligan's brother and fucked up love interest in a variety of things. I'm trying to capture the same energy. How do we get someone who's played her love interest, fucked up or not, who can also come in and play her brother? One, Peter Sarsgaard, that's a very fucked up love interest in an education, but I think he would be such a great literary blowhard. I think he could be wonderful, but I'm really partial to Michael Sheen in this way. I just think he-

Speaker 6:
[10:35] Oh, that's a great one.

Speaker 7:
[10:38] The scenery he would chew in this particular role. I'd be delighted to see it.

Speaker 6:
[10:42] It's like real midnight in Paris, Michael Sheen energy.

Speaker 7:
[10:45] That's the exact calibration. That level of enthusiasm, sometimes meaninglessly, sometimes needlessly, but he just can't turn it off.

Speaker 6:
[10:54] Oh, that's great. My suggestion would be Tom Hollander, who has been in a movie with Carrie Mulligan, was in Pride and Prejudice famously with her, in one of your favorite movies, Hannah, on White Lotus, crushing on White Lotus. Tom Hollander, there's just nothing he can't do. In terms of pomposity, I'm a big, big fan. He's got that short king energy where he just really feels like he needs to compensate inside of the room and I just love that about him.

Speaker 7:
[11:22] I do love that. I think you're right about the pomposity. What kind of book do we think Bloom Scully is exactly?

Speaker 6:
[11:27] Oh, it's definitely a children's book, right?

Speaker 7:
[11:29] Oh, is it?

Speaker 6:
[11:29] Don't you think so?

Speaker 7:
[11:30] Oh no, I thought it was a somewhat highfalutin literary, very literary novel.

Speaker 6:
[11:35] Pulitzer Prize, sure.

Speaker 7:
[11:37] I mean, I guess you could win a Pulitzer for children's fiction, maybe.

Speaker 6:
[11:41] I think maybe I'm just thinking of Bloomsbury, the comic. But great question. I think folks should write in to let us know what they think. Yeah, what is Bloomsbury?

Speaker 7:
[11:50] Many people are wondering.

Speaker 6:
[11:51] Tammy wrote in to say, you mentioned there was no reaction to Lindsay talking about her brother's novel, Bloomsbury. But I thought the reaction to it was one of the funniest moments in these three episodes. Eunice says to the chairwoman, quote, she's not talking about anything important right now.

Speaker 7:
[12:05] It's an important part of translating. It's really come through the fat.

Speaker 6:
[12:09] I mean, we talked about this a lot when we covered Shogun, like the opportunity for comedy inside of a translation relationship is fantastic. Someone who signed their email, RS, so I won't out their full name, wrote in to let us know that he said, my family has been in the golf business for 40 years. More blue collar hijinks than posh uppity clubs. But let me say this, for a club that size, there's absolutely no way they do not have a staff smaller than 50. The turf management and agronomy teams alone, agronomy teams alone, would be approaching 50, let alone the hospitality, F&B. I don't know what F&B even is.

Speaker 7:
[12:44] I was going to reach for some, but I got nothing.

Speaker 6:
[12:46] And ProShop teams would easily eclipse that figure. Take this a step further, a Bev Cart server is almost never a full-time employee. Are we sure Ashley was a full-time at the start of the series? So, some well-actuallys from RRS about the economic structure of a country club. Good to know. Trisha Rodin, this is actually in reaction to a conversation we had on a pit podcast, but I'm smuggling in here anyway, about the spice of life. Trisha Rodin.

Speaker 7:
[13:11] This is not the place.

Speaker 6:
[13:12] Cardamom absolutely is the spice of life, especially here in Bend, Oregon. Most famously, it is the featured ingredient in the world famous ocean rolls from Sparrow Bakery. Let's go to Bend, Oregon and have the cardamom rolls at Sparrow Bakery.

Speaker 7:
[13:25] Happy to have the roll. Cardamom is not the spice of life. If cardamom is the spice of your life, I think you need to re-examine your spice balance.

Speaker 6:
[13:32] Did you go, you went to intradays and, okay.

Speaker 7:
[13:36] Of course.

Speaker 6:
[13:36] Did you have a cardamom roll when we were in Stockholm?

Speaker 7:
[13:38] I don't think you could avoid one.

Speaker 6:
[13:40] And you didn't say, hmm, this is the spice of life?

Speaker 7:
[13:43] I did not.

Speaker 6:
[13:43] Well, you should have. There's also salt in that, so it's both.

Speaker 7:
[13:46] I think salt is definitively the spice of life. I think that's been asked and answered.

Speaker 6:
[13:50] I think it's the boring answer with the spice of life.

Speaker 7:
[13:51] It is the scientific fact.

Speaker 6:
[13:53] But why not cardamom? All right. That's all the mailbag stuff we have. General discussion. The final two episodes feel like, almost like a completely different show. They should do. What did you think of The Turn? And we, and you know, I had not watched these episodes. I hadn't even read any reviews and like, going back and reading some of the mixed negative reviews, the way the season ended sort of factored in. But I didn't read those because I didn't want to know. Like, you know, reviewers often put in plot details for like a binge drop. So I did not know what was coming in seven and eight at all. But I did mention season one, I think takes a real sharp tone turn towards the end. And I think season two did the exact same thing.

Speaker 7:
[14:34] We're right back.

Speaker 6:
[14:36] Did it work for you? What did you think?

Speaker 7:
[14:38] It did not really work for me. I didn't feel like it was of a piece with the first six episodes basically at all. And I also just didn't find it to be a particularly energizing swerve. Like I love a genre shift, I'm open to it. But it just didn't capture my imagination or my interest in any way. Just felt like, oh, we're just gonna do a totally different thing. And by the way, we're gonna try to say a lot of like big stuff about relationships.

Speaker 6:
[14:59] Love, second marriages.

Speaker 7:
[15:01] Capitalism, many, many things in like big speech monologue pattern. I'm open to some of those messages. Some of them are like both shown and told in a way that feels excessive. And some of it is just like the way that it's shown. Oh, brother. I mean, we're really going hamfisted with it by the end.

Speaker 6:
[15:21] Do you think that if they had put a cowboy hat on Dr. Kim or Cherone Park when they were speechifying, you would have had a better taste for it?

Speaker 7:
[15:28] This is what I need, a little distraction.

Speaker 6:
[15:30] That's the Euphoria reference if you miss this crossover event. All right. I largely agree with you. I think it worked a bit better for me than it did for you. And I was thinking about that this morning, actually, in the drive-in to work where I was like, why does saying the thing so overtly bother me in the pit? But it didn't bother me so as much here. I think particularly Dr. Kim's speech, even though you could tell by the turning of the camera, like what the punchline was gonna be.

Speaker 7:
[16:02] They didn't exactly conceal it.

Speaker 6:
[16:03] I still found that speech kind of. And then similarly, like Austin becomes incredibly perceptive out of nowhere, emotionally perceptive. And so when he tells Ashley something like, you don't love me, you just don't want to be left by me, like they're just saying the thing. But inside of Beef, a show where no human acts like a normal human would, I think I mind that less than I do in the pit, which is aiming to be a realistic depiction of human behavior, you know?

Speaker 7:
[16:32] I'm absolutely cool with people not acting like actual human beings in a show like this. As you're saying, they haven't really the whole season. I just want them to continue acting like some version of themselves.

Speaker 6:
[16:41] Of the same human.

Speaker 7:
[16:42] And this episode in particular, I quite like that the individual episodes of Beef sometimes have been like, oh, there's a jump of a couple weeks, a couple days, maybe months even. Like we're not really totally, absolutely. I like that there's these like indetermined gaps between the episodes. But this one, like we check in with Ashley and she has transformed, right? Like it is not a subtle influence that Lindsey and Ava, by extension, have had on her life. Austin, as you say, is like kind of the same person, but also like weirdly attuned to like everyone's bullshit. Of course, not his own because, I mean, that's just what we do as humans. But there's just like a little too much of that. It's just like, who are these people?

Speaker 6:
[17:19] Right. Ashley's physical and personality transformation. I guess she had been sort of trending this way. Ashley, I kind of see. It was the Austin one for me that felt the most jarring, the most not himself. And then for Lindsay and Josh, it didn't really stick out to me because having going through, actually going through the divorce process inside of these last two episodes, we find them in such a different emotional space that it kind of worked for me, if that makes sense.

Speaker 7:
[17:51] I mean, they're just kind of worn down and somewhat softened emotionally by the process, which that's a reaction a lot of people have when working through things like that.

Speaker 6:
[17:59] One thing they did in the finale is they had a elaborate action piece, one-er action shot where among other things, Ava got slashed in the face, et cetera, et cetera. I thought this was wildly unnecessary and not even terribly well executed, honestly. So, you know, like the temptation to do a one-er is often there for people, and I'm just sort of like, just pause and think, do I need this? Is this going to be interesting thematically or technically exciting? And like, I'm sure it was very hard to execute that. I'm sure, you know, Charles Melton and Kerry Mulligan and Kayleigh Spanning are like, how dare you? Do you know how, like, how many times I had to, like, slash that scalpel or wield that tray or whatever? So it looked difficult to pull off, but I was not impressed by it, honestly, at the same time.

Speaker 7:
[18:50] I was somewhat impressed, but yeah, it has no real need in this show whatsoever. But like the choreography, even just things like Kerry Mulligan, like Lindsay heaving and thus bending over to vomit and dodging an attack unintentionally or the way that, like, they're picking up scraps of flesh off of the trays as they throw them. It's just disgusting. And like, it is funny, but it's just kind of like why? I think it's leaning into the cartoonish aspects of the show, like maybe a little too much for my taste. It's just a really difficult thing to calibrate, like how much is too much for a show like Beef?

Speaker 6:
[19:24] Let's talk about, you know, we're going to do our standard categories, but I thought maybe we should dedicate some time here at the top for like the quota, the eight years later quota that we get. And this idea of like, I guess, quote unquote justice on beef, you know, like what are the, what's the comeuppance for someone inside the show? What's sentenced, you know, are you sentenced to a lifetime in the English countryside? Are you sentenced to become the people that you disdained at the beginning of the show? Are you literally sentenced to time in prison? So like, let's talk about Ashley and Austin. They're in the Josh and Lindsay roles. They're saving the bees, not the frogs, but you know, they're in those roles. They have a kid, had a Burberry. I'm sorry. Yeah, Ashton.

Speaker 7:
[20:03] Yeah. I just want to get the naming scheme right.

Speaker 6:
[20:05] Combination of Ashley and Austin, it's Ashton.

Speaker 7:
[20:07] They really nailed it.

Speaker 6:
[20:08] Yeah, and that was like one of the dream names that they came up with earlier in the season. They seem happy-ish, but also not.

Speaker 7:
[20:16] Oh, they don't seem happy at all.

Speaker 6:
[20:18] Well, I think they seem happier than Lindsey and Josh did.

Speaker 7:
[20:21] I think it's like, is it not just straight mirror?

Speaker 6:
[20:24] It's close, but they don't get in the argument that Lindsey and Josh get into in the car. Yet. It seemed like, yeah, well, they're younger.

Speaker 7:
[20:31] No, I just even mean you play that scene out for two more hours, and I think they do get into a version of that argument.

Speaker 6:
[20:37] This is what Charles Melton said about it. He says, quote, this is on the Netflix official site. It's all our perceptions. Someone can be tired and everyone thinks they hate their life. It's okay for Austin to not feel like he wants to read a book to his kid because he's so tired. Does that mean he's unhappy with his whole life? When they started that scene, it was very clear they were rolling back the first scene of the season, except we've swapped our couples as to who's taking... My expectation was, okay, they're as unhappy as Josh and Lindsay were. But I don't know. There was something about their interaction with Troy and Ava where it didn't seem like they were as upset to have dinner with Troy and Ava and as upset with each other when they got in the car. And again, they're younger. And I think if you have a kid in your relationship, you can, not necessarily sometimes it exacerbates it, but you can ignore some of the tensions inside of this. People talk about this all the time. You have this massive project that you're undertaking and you're just sort of devoting a lot of your attention and your emotional well-being and all that sort of stuff into raising this kiddo. And if Austin is very nourished by this role as dad, which I can see him being, I think that might delay some of the more explosive unhappiness that might come when young Ashton goes off to college or something like that and the nest is empty. That was just what I thought I had. Obviously, it can go the opposite way when a kid is introduced inside of a relationship, but I think it was just ever so slightly different, not completely the same.

Speaker 7:
[22:06] I think that's a totally fair call. Maybe it is just as simple as being earlier in the cycle. The number of times that Josh and Lindsey had some version of the host the event, oh, we're going to make the dinner reservations with Troy and Ava, oh, we're looking forward to it. It's just that dialogue cycle I feel like they've been in so many times in their lives. Maybe this is just like it hasn't quite worn out its welcome yet. It's still just new enough that you're not noticing the ants crawling all over the dining room. I'm bought in on that. I think part of what colors my read on it is, when we first see Josh and Lindsey go through their version of this, we're catching up to what their relationship is. This is our introduction to these characters through the fight and trying to get a sense of what the baggage of their marriage is in the process. But we've seen so much with Austin and Ashley. In particular, it's hard to watch everything that transpires in these two episodes and not feel like both of these people have trapped themselves in a life and in a relationship that they really don't want and certainly don't need.

Speaker 6:
[23:06] I don't think this is a happy ending for either of them. But also at the same time, I'm slightly compelled by Ashley's argument, which was, at least we know each other's shit and you don't know what Eunice's shit is and it might be worse shit than my shit. You know what I mean?

Speaker 7:
[23:23] We had radically different reads on these episodes.

Speaker 6:
[23:25] No, no, no, I'm not saying this is a happy ending, but there's something like slightly, I don't think, I mean, when we get to biggest mistakes, I would say Austin staying with Ashley is his biggest mistake.

Speaker 7:
[23:36] That's not great.

Speaker 6:
[23:37] That's where I am. So we're mostly on the same page, okay, with that. But I was slightly compelled by that argument. I don't think it's a reason to stay, but like, obviously Austin saying, I love Eunice and Ashley saying, it's too soon for you to know that she's right.

Speaker 7:
[23:53] Obviously true.

Speaker 6:
[23:54] She is right. And when she says, in the Josh and Lindsay vein, there is something about Josh and Lindsay know each other. You know, when Phineas who cameos inside of this episode, when he talks about Lindsay's sense of humor, how caustic it is, and Josh is like, actually it's kind of charming once you get to know her, that's how she is. You know, there's something to be said about knowing someone else's shit. And I don't think that Ashley and Austin do know the extent of each other's shit, because even though they've been put through this intense situation that brought out the worst of them, they've still only been together two years. Whereas Lindsay and Josh have been together much longer. And so I think really did know the scope and depth of each other's shit inside of an argument. So I don't know, I think it's not as clean cut as Ashley and Austin find themselves in the exact same spot as Josh and Lindsay, but of course, we're running back the tape to make the parallel quite obvious.

Speaker 7:
[24:48] And about what are the lies that you kind of tell yourself to justify reaching for that thing, settling for this, accepting this kind of life. And for Josh and Lindsay, a lot of it was like, oh, we're gonna create this bed and breakfast out of our home. We have this long-term vision that justifies a lifestyle that we don't exactly love right now. And seeing a version of that form for Austin and Ashley is heartbreaking in its own way.

Speaker 6:
[25:13] So are you saying Ashton is the B&B? The B-B&B?

Speaker 7:
[25:17] Kinda. There is a third B.

Speaker 6:
[25:18] Tough. I was wondering when they fired up their car to go home, I was like, well, maybe, maybe. Maybe Hope Springs Eternal for me. Maybe if they decided this is it, like we want the Country Club and the dinners with Troy and Ava, which sound not delightful to me, but sure, whatever, and are not reaching for that other thing, then maybe their life isn't as fraught as Josh and Lindsay's wound up being because they were in such a dissatisfied state.

Speaker 7:
[25:47] I really hope for their sake that that's the case.

Speaker 6:
[25:49] Ashley seemed like a real piece of work by the end of all of this.

Speaker 7:
[25:51] She really does.

Speaker 6:
[25:52] I am not happy that anyone here is together. I hope they've all done a lot of therapy. I worry about that kid, but here we are.

Speaker 7:
[25:59] I want to get back to Ashley's pitch to Austin that you mentioned in some of the other categories. But I do feel like that bit, I think you're spot on that there are bits of truth in it about what if you repeat the cycle, about knowing each other's bullshit. There is stuff in there that tracks and makes sense to me. It felt like the germ of truth within the super villain monologue where it's like, oh, they're making some points.

Speaker 6:
[26:22] She gets very tough to root for in these last couple episodes. Lindsay winds up in a terrible wig in the Bloomskully-esque country with her very colonial wallpaper, an adorable child and a husband who makes sausage rolls. I will have to reserve judgment on whether or not this is a happy ending until I know whether or not her husband made those sausage rolls from scratch or if he's just reheating some Greggs. Those are two different scenarios. But if she landed herself a nice English gentleman who can make sausage rolls from scratch.

Speaker 7:
[26:52] A proper home cook.

Speaker 6:
[26:53] I mean, good job, Lindsay. That's what I have to say. But obviously she's watching this interview with Josh. We'll get to Josh in a second. There's obviously plenty of poignancy to that for her. She's hiding away to watch this. All is not rosy. But it does seem like a relatively happy ending for Lindsay. How do you feel about that after everything Lindsay has done in this season?

Speaker 7:
[27:17] I think it's happy, but there's certainly bittersweetness. Some of that is bringing their two narratives together. This idea that she says she's going to wait for him. Obviously, they're in contact.

Speaker 6:
[27:28] I believed her.

Speaker 7:
[27:29] I think she believed her in that moment. Then, yeah, the phone calls start becoming less frequent.

Speaker 6:
[27:33] The camera believed her for sure. The score believed her.

Speaker 7:
[27:35] All that I think any of us want is someone, specifically a Carey Mulligan, to hurdle over a barricade, sprint to us as we are being put away for our great and noble sacrifice, to give us one last kiss before we go.

Speaker 6:
[27:49] The Phineas score swells. Jake Shire's camera is just spinning around us just like thunderbolts. Yeah, it's pretty great.

Speaker 7:
[27:56] They really did it in that moment. But then, yeah, as time unspools on, she's not going to wait around forever.

Speaker 6:
[28:03] Of course she wasn't going to wait for him. I don't know why in the moment. I was like, maybe she will.

Speaker 7:
[28:06] Their relationship is not necessarily built to last that. It's not even necessarily built to reconcile from the divorce that they were going through. This does feel like a healthier outcome for them both. I say that for Lindsay getting the life in the country that she talks about in these episodes clearly has a kind of appeal for her, if not a holistic appeal. And for Josh, doing something genuinely selfless and I think having to realize and accept what he gave up in the process, but he seems like he's in a much healthier place as a result.

Speaker 6:
[28:33] Running the prison like the country club, still the guy with the hookup, eat your heart out, read from Shawshank Redemption, gets out, gives this fairly Zen interview saying he's hoping that the people he loves, he's talking directly to Lindsay down the camera, hope people I love are happy. Josh and Lindsay wind up in a sort of psychologically healthier, emotionally healthier space and Ashley and Austin, even though I think it's not quite where we find Josh and Lindsay in the beginning, and unhealthy.

Speaker 7:
[29:02] They're on a bad path.

Speaker 6:
[29:04] Unhealthy space. So is the message of Beef, of both, divorce, it's good actually.

Speaker 7:
[29:11] Maybe so.

Speaker 6:
[29:12] Try divorce.

Speaker 7:
[29:14] I mean, I do think clearly the show is engaging with this idea of the cyclical nature of all sorts of relationships, specifically romantic ones.

Speaker 6:
[29:21] Was it the turning gyre of the seasons at the end of the show that clued you into that?

Speaker 7:
[29:27] Yeah. I really want to appreciate that, and I really don't. I'm sorry. I just could not get there. But I kept coming back to this line that we get from Lindsay and Ava when they're talking about their various troubles with their guys of this idea that like men only try when they absolutely need to or when it's too late. And there's so much of that in these episodes, not just with Ben, but like every one of these relationships. And it's like, you recognize things way, way too late, and you're willing to try to reconcile or just feel differently about what was ultimately a really difficult part of your life because it's in retrospect, because it has all that charm drift in acid in terms of the commentary. But like, you just kind of remember the charm.

Speaker 6:
[30:04] The way that Lindsay looks at Austin after he, when he shows up after she said that, it's just like really funny to me.

Speaker 7:
[30:11] One of the great acting feats of this show, Carrie Mulligan, I have no idea how to describe what she does with her face.

Speaker 6:
[30:17] It's incredible.

Speaker 7:
[30:17] It's as if she's eaten something both disgusting and sour.

Speaker 6:
[30:22] And then we end with Cher Women Park and then that sort of big tableau, which we can talk about a little bit more, but Cher Women Park at her first husband's grave site, talking about the nature of love. Another monologue that you were like, where's the cowboy hat? I can't relate. This ain't Texas. Anything else you want to say about that?

Speaker 7:
[30:43] Only that I'm usually quite open to Koreans giving big monologues in these sorts of movies and shows. And yeah, for some reason, this one just did not quite work for me. All right.

Speaker 6:
[30:50] Anything else you want to say before we get into sort of our superlative categories? Let's do it. Okay.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 5:
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Speaker 8:
[31:54] K-Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

Speaker 3:
[32:03] It's not a battle.

Speaker 2:
[32:04] So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share.

Speaker 8:
[32:10] No, it's our honor.

Speaker 2:
[32:12] It is our larger honor.

Speaker 1:
[32:14] No, really, stop.

Speaker 8:
[32:16] You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

Speaker 4:
[32:22] I participated in McDonald's while supplies last.

Speaker 6:
[32:25] So each character's worst decision, starting with Josh.

Speaker 7:
[32:29] I think for Josh, it's unfortunately thinking that Troy is actually his friend, which sucks and especially-

Speaker 6:
[32:33] Troy and Ava, they sure suck.

Speaker 7:
[32:35] They do suck. I don't know that they ever- I was going to say they didn't misrepresent themselves, but I guess they are overly familiar for people who see this as a very transactional thing.

Speaker 6:
[32:44] Well, I think saying like amigo and like, oh, you're fearing poorly, let me get Hot Chip on the line and like fly you out to Park City and stuff like that. I think that's a we're actually friends and then Ava saying, it was just his job to do things for us. What are you talking about?

Speaker 7:
[33:00] That was absolutely brutal. But yeah, the transactional relationships around Josh are really transacting in these episodes. I get why he would misread where he stands with Troy after the Hot Chip situation, but also showing up and being like, can you do me a solid? By the way, the solid is firing up your private jet to fly us to Seoul.

Speaker 6:
[33:19] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[33:20] I don't think so.

Speaker 6:
[33:21] I think that the possibility Troy might have done it if he hadn't already been tipped off about the embezzlement. Maybe. It's a possibility. Yeah. For me, it's not going to Cuba. I think Josh would have just gone to Cuba.

Speaker 7:
[33:33] Once one person tries to kill you, you have to just leave.

Speaker 6:
[33:36] Just go to Cuba.

Speaker 7:
[33:37] Extricate yourself from the situation.

Speaker 6:
[33:39] Even like they say that when he gets to Seoul, and Lindsay is like, we should have just gone to Cuba, man. He really fucked us.

Speaker 7:
[33:47] But again, he's one of the few characters in these episodes who's doing genuinely selfless things. He goes to Seoul out of concern for Lindsay.

Speaker 6:
[33:54] Yeah, absolutely. No, I mean, I actually got really emotional in their back-to-back scene.

Speaker 7:
[34:00] I think it's by far the strongest part of these two episodes.

Speaker 6:
[34:02] Him turning around and leaning his head and the hand and all of that, it really got to me. Oscar Isaac and Kerry Mulligan turns out they're great at acting. Okay, Lindsay, worst decision.

Speaker 7:
[34:14] It's got to be flushing the phone.

Speaker 6:
[34:15] I have flushing the phone.

Speaker 7:
[34:16] Why?

Speaker 6:
[34:17] Or that wig at the end. That's not her fault. The wig is not her fault.

Speaker 7:
[34:20] The shorter hair definitely suits her.

Speaker 6:
[34:21] It looks great.

Speaker 7:
[34:22] Kerry Mulligan's been doing it for years for a reason, let it happen. You don't have to grow it out just because you moved to the countryside. You also don't have to flush this phone for any reason other than we need to accelerate and intensify the plot.

Speaker 6:
[34:35] Also, have I ever been on a flight as long as the flight to Seoul from California? I don't think so. But I've just never seen an airplane toilet that disgusting.

Speaker 7:
[34:45] It was vile.

Speaker 6:
[34:46] On a luxury airline. She went to the not first class cabin, but that was bizarre. That's not what toilets are like on Korean airlines or whatever.

Speaker 7:
[34:57] Occasionally, you will catch one where somebody has just used it and not cleaned it very thoroughly, I suppose. And this whole sequence is really disgusting. It's really tough.

Speaker 6:
[35:05] I felt like you could smell it. It was very tough.

Speaker 7:
[35:08] And yet, she just wants to zhuzh up that Shirley Temple a little bit.

Speaker 6:
[35:12] Okay. Austin, worse decision.

Speaker 7:
[35:16] I think it's just buying into this life that he doesn't even seem to want.

Speaker 6:
[35:19] And or swallowing the USB, even though Ashley was like, that was a good move.

Speaker 7:
[35:23] That was not a good move. There's no way it still works, right?

Speaker 6:
[35:27] I don't know how substance-resistant, stomach-acid-resistant USB drives are, but I would say it wouldn't work. I guess maybe it works as a piece of leverage.

Speaker 7:
[35:39] Maybe. As a concept.

Speaker 6:
[35:41] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[35:42] Does it actually have any data on it anymore?

Speaker 6:
[35:44] Theoretically, this USB has a lot of info on it.

Speaker 7:
[35:46] It could be dangerous, but I would say honorable mention for Austin. It's just completely bungling the unit situation as far as reading anything happening in the room.

Speaker 6:
[35:57] This is what Charles Melton says about Austin's decision. He says, I didn't know during filming because I wasn't a father then, but I am one now. When you see parts of yourself in your baby, it's the best thing in the world. Austin is just so sweet and kind. He has these dreams and hopes of those things Ashley is saying and he really wants that. He's trying to grasp at that. So it's Ashley saying, there could be a kid with like, my eyes, your smile, your kindness, blah, blah, blah. And from the very beginning, when we first meet Austin and Ashley, they're looking at a family with kids and he's saying, this could be us soon. So Austin is dad, and I think Austin's probably a great dad, but the very end of the graduate moment he has in the back of the taxi when Eunice is like, love you. And he's like, I made a huge mistake. It's not Charles Melton's most subtle acting, but like, you know, it was a very nice, like hold the camera on the face as he makes the realization moment, you know, so. And then Ashley, I wrote, God, everything?

Speaker 7:
[36:57] Seriously.

Speaker 6:
[36:58] Question mark, like, what is she thinking for most of this? I do want to shout out the kids though, for their innovation, because like our older couple, as both couples are on either side of this wall, trying to figure out, you know, do we throw the other pair under the bus? What do we do? Blah, blah, blah. Ashley and Austin have figured out that the ceiling is scalable. And I think they are the ones who have pushed the outlet, like, dislodged it out of the wall, so they have like a way to pass the USB back and forth. I'm just sort of like innovating.

Speaker 7:
[37:30] And to communicate without the echo of the room, I imagine too. It's just, they're really doing it.

Speaker 6:
[37:34] They're innovating in the way the old are not, so.

Speaker 7:
[37:36] The old have given up.

Speaker 6:
[37:37] Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 7:
[37:37] They're just trying to canoodle through the wall. That's all they can hope for.

Speaker 6:
[37:41] It's very Dr. Who.

Speaker 7:
[37:42] It's honestly very Dr. Who. Yeah, I think for Ashley, just the larger tripling down on having a baby with a guy who wants to leave you, and I think genuinely doesn't really love you anymore.

Speaker 6:
[37:55] Oh, he definitely doesn't.

Speaker 7:
[37:56] So like what is in it for her other than grasping at and avoiding the sort of abandonment issues that Austin highlights?

Speaker 6:
[38:02] What do you think of the move of putting the hand sanitizer in the fertility example?

Speaker 7:
[38:07] I thought it was gonna work.

Speaker 6:
[38:08] I'm surprised it didn't work, honestly.

Speaker 7:
[38:10] Learning a lot about fertility.

Speaker 6:
[38:12] I guess so. All right, whitest white nonsense.

Speaker 7:
[38:15] I actually, I mean, this is quite a Korean few episodes. So I would say we're kind of leaning away from some of the whitest of the white nonsense, but in a shocking turn of events, I think Austin's white side, courtesy of his dad, really comes through when they get the very fancy Korean dinner, courtesy of the chef, where he just wants like, can you bring me a big bowl of white rice, please? Very white person.

Speaker 6:
[38:37] I thought that was so he could shit.

Speaker 7:
[38:39] Oh, I didn't even think about it. I guess it makes sense in context. You're absolutely right. But it is a very like, I'm a white person and I don't feel comfortable eating this food. Can you bring me rice?

Speaker 6:
[38:47] I thought he was asking for things that would help him move the USB along.

Speaker 7:
[38:50] You know what? I really wasn't thinking about his cycles and I should have been.

Speaker 6:
[38:53] All right. I have Phineas saying you'd get along with her. She's Latina, right? Then Ashley's saying, come here you glass faced whore, which was really funny and complimentary to Eunice's skincare routine, but also fairly white nonsense, I think.

Speaker 7:
[39:13] The whole encounter when Ashley finds Eunice in Austin scheming, trying to figure out what to do with the flash drive, I did find to be very funny.

Speaker 6:
[39:20] It was fine. All right, 824iest moment.

Speaker 7:
[39:23] It's got to be the oner. It's got to be this unhinged fight sequence for good and for ill. I think we have a lot of great things to say about a lot of 824 movies, but there is a certain sub-genre of them that are just like, oh, you just did all this extra shit for absolutely no reason. Oh, you included this exorbitant set piece that doesn't need to be here at all. We dove right into that particular ditch on this one.

Speaker 6:
[39:50] Sort of like a Jurassic Park. You were too busy wondering if you could.

Speaker 7:
[39:54] This is the Revencho problem.

Speaker 6:
[39:56] If you should. I think it's the tableau at the end. You said you wanted to talk about that elsewhere.

Speaker 7:
[40:02] I mean, I prefer not to talk about it, but it's just...

Speaker 6:
[40:05] So this is originally the ending. So according to the showrunner, originally the ending of the season was supposed to be just Chairwoman Park at the gravesite. But he's like, turns out it wasn't great to end with a billionaire who gets away with everything, just sort of like meditating on love. We didn't think that was really the note we wanted to end the season on.

Speaker 7:
[40:24] Okay, fair.

Speaker 6:
[40:25] So the image is inspired by a Samsara painting, the Buddhist and Hindu belief in the continuous cycle of, quote, eternal love and death and life and suffering. The paintings are presided over by the gods of death and have this, quote, circle with these vignettes of life. And so we see all the characters, you know, Josh and Lindsay, Troy and Ava, Ashley and Austin, as the camera spins above and Phoenix plays over the score here. This to me is A24 nonsense.

Speaker 7:
[40:52] It just really, it really does not work. I appreciate and I'm interested in the idea of, oh, we don't want to end on this very particular billionaire oriented note. Yeah. I didn't really have a problem with that speech. And I think it could have been a fine ending, especially for a show that to me is kind of cynical and is kind of dark.

Speaker 6:
[41:10] And about the way that wealth inoculates you from consequences.

Speaker 7:
[41:14] And that's very much part of the text of these episodes. And so, shying away from that feels disingenuous to what the show is doing. And again, I think there are elements of the tableau as far as, oh, when you're young and especially when you're in love, eventually you kind of do become something that you resented or despised or were scared of ever becoming. I think we all have our own versions of that thing. I think the idea of putting all of these couples on a cycle not only symbolically doesn't work, Troy and Ava don't really fit.

Speaker 6:
[41:46] I was going to say, what are Troy and Ava doing there? That was the real-

Speaker 7:
[41:48] They are too independent. Again, we're giving a very clear visual aid of what they are. It's very different from what everyone else in this show is. And so I'm open to the relationship analysis of how all of these couples interact. I just don't think we ever really got the work as far as doing that thing, other than some big speeches right at the end, right before the finish line and then here's our big showy visual that I guess is supposed to bring it all home.

Speaker 6:
[42:13] This visual and the phoenix on the soundtrack is what mostly closes out the season, but over the very end of the credits, we get the sound of bugs. And so I would just like to return once again to the bug motif. And here is a quote about how it was used this season. Quote, season one, we had the crows. I didn't remember that there was a crows motif in season one, but okay. Season two, I think there are a lot of contact clues about the ants. They're hive mind bugs. My favorite part is hearing what people interpret about the show. I have my own interpretation, but I'm excited to hear what people think. The fact that the ants are hive mind bugs didn't really occur to me. Do you have a way to thematically apply that to the season of Beef?

Speaker 7:
[42:50] I'm suddenly becoming more and more appreciative of filmmakers who don't explain the simpleism involved in their work. What is the hive mind relevance? Just that we're all human and we're all prone to the same programming error?

Speaker 6:
[43:02] We're all in a little loop to quote Westworld season one.

Speaker 7:
[43:07] Are we all wildly strong proportional to our body weight? Stronger than we think.

Speaker 6:
[43:13] Let's set that in as our interpretation. Last but not least, we had a couple more instances of the seeing yourself in someone else. Ashley in the flight attendant or Austin in the brow-beaten guy inside of the spa. Did we get a Lindsay version of that? I know we got a couple of Josh's.

Speaker 7:
[43:29] That's a great question. I feel like we must have at some point, but I'm blanking on it.

Speaker 6:
[43:31] We got Lindsay thinking of herself as the younger version of herself when she's walking through the club. But I can't remember if we saw someone else turn into Lindsay.

Speaker 7:
[43:39] There must have been one at some point.

Speaker 6:
[43:41] Anyway, did you have a favorite one of those in the season?

Speaker 7:
[43:44] I didn't. I came to like them less and less. Again, I think this is part of the issue with the show.

Speaker 6:
[43:50] I think the first one was really good.

Speaker 7:
[43:51] Right. Honestly, I think I would have appreciated it more if it was unique to one of these four characters and not just like we're all projecting ourselves into other people or contrasting the growth of our circumstances or whatever. But you just don't need to hammer it that much.

Speaker 6:
[44:07] Ashley turning to someone who demands a certain temperature and softness of a cookie on a flight.

Speaker 7:
[44:12] She's very insistent in these episodes.

Speaker 6:
[44:13] Really tough. All right. Most diabolical manipulation.

Speaker 7:
[44:16] See, to me, this is Ashley.

Speaker 6:
[44:18] Everything with the kid.

Speaker 7:
[44:20] Everything with the kid. Let's just zoom out. Not only wanting to cover up a murder, help cover up a murder in terms of what happened at the clinic, but be responsible. I have to assume for Eunice's dead. She's either in the wind underground or more likely dead.

Speaker 6:
[44:36] Maybe Eunice went to Cuba.

Speaker 1:
[44:38] I hope Eunice went to Cuba.

Speaker 6:
[44:40] She's fine.

Speaker 7:
[44:40] I don't have those high hopes for her. But then also manipulating Austin to want it too. And this is where I wanted to kind of revisit the conversation we brought up earlier about specifically this idea that if he were to leave her, he would only enter into a new relationship and go through the same cycle of like infatuation and then eventually drifting out of love and boredom and then break up. And then therefore, because he is prone to that cycle, that he should just stay here with her in this relationship he doesn't want to be in.

Speaker 6:
[45:08] Right, largely bullshit. I agree with you.

Speaker 7:
[45:10] I think almost entirely bullshit.

Speaker 6:
[45:12] But I think this idea of like being attracted to something new and unknown. Eunice in his mind is like just this perfect unknown creature. And like, who's to say what Eunice might do? Eunice is capable of some things.

Speaker 7:
[45:26] This is not an argument that he should live happily ever after with Eunice. Eunice clearly doesn't want to be with him.

Speaker 6:
[45:31] Well, not only that, but like, you know, Eunice knowing that he has a girlfriend and being like, you know, come work me out anytime you want, you know, like stuff like that. So like, I, on the one hand, I agree. I don't know. I see many points of view on this. It's all one turning, you know, some sort of, you know, whatever.

Speaker 7:
[45:49] And Eunice is clearly manipulative in her own way. Out of desperation, granted, like she doesn't have allies or people she can trust. She's like looking around every corner.

Speaker 6:
[45:57] But there is a kernel of something altruistic there because she could also take that information and just, you know, get the Ashley Austin deal out of it. But she wants to turn over to the authorities.

Speaker 7:
[46:08] She wants to do the right thing. And in doing so, Austin is clearly interested in doing it because he also is someone that we've seen over the course of this season, like has a soft heart and wants to do good, generally speaking, but also wants Eunice or thinks he wants Eunice. And she like indulges it just enough to like keep him in her corner. I can't say it, but you know how I feel. It is fucked up, but it's nowhere near the fucked up that Ashley is reaching.

Speaker 6:
[46:35] Well, but I would just say, I don't know if Eunice is responsible for killing someone's dog. We don't know these things.

Speaker 7:
[46:41] I think we would be told that.

Speaker 6:
[46:42] And Ashley isn't Ashley and Eunice isn't Eunice, you know what I mean? So, okay. Yeah, I would say especially, I think the part with the viable embryo and that whole conversation felt very manipulative and shitty to me. So, okay.

Speaker 7:
[46:54] Ashley.

Speaker 6:
[46:55] Realistic shot fired during an argument.

Speaker 7:
[46:57] Every single action in your life is driven by the fact that your mom and dad divorced when you were a baby and started completely new lives without you.

Speaker 6:
[47:04] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[47:04] I don't know where that line came from.

Speaker 6:
[47:06] You don't want me, Ashley, you just don't want to be left by me. I mean, like Austin getting this like complete makeover of therapy speak is wild, but also probably true.

Speaker 7:
[47:17] I mean, he cuts right to the core.

Speaker 6:
[47:18] Yeah. All right. A himboeus moment. This is usually Austin's category to lose, but I actually have other folks in this category. Who do you have? I would say Josh screaming Lindsey's name.

Speaker 4:
[47:31] He doesn't know.

Speaker 7:
[47:33] He doesn't know that they're being chased through the streets.

Speaker 6:
[47:35] Yes, he's being literally chased through the streets. He just was chased through the streets.

Speaker 7:
[47:39] Yeah, but he was nabbed at the airport. Like how is he to know that they're in the exact same circumstance?

Speaker 6:
[47:44] He should be stealthy, if anything. You know what I mean?

Speaker 7:
[47:47] You're telling me, if you just got, you just jumped out of like basically a moving van where you were being held captive by the grace of one of your captors, you've sprinted through the streets in a massive city.

Speaker 6:
[48:00] Right.

Speaker 7:
[48:01] And you're looking for one person and you see them. What should he have done?

Speaker 6:
[48:05] What?

Speaker 7:
[48:09] As they are like hiding behind the radishes and then make their break for it.

Speaker 6:
[48:14] Burberry.

Speaker 7:
[48:16] Burberry, it's your father.

Speaker 6:
[48:20] Some code I think would have been better there.

Speaker 7:
[48:22] Yeah, Lindsay was not the most.

Speaker 6:
[48:23] And then I would say the whole gazpacho exchange from Lindsay and Ashley and Austin. The whole trio talking about gazpacho, I would say.

Speaker 7:
[48:31] A lot of gazpacho talk.

Speaker 6:
[48:32] Is some himbo shit. What do you have here in this category?

Speaker 7:
[48:35] I'm here to represent Austin even still.

Speaker 6:
[48:37] Okay, thank you.

Speaker 7:
[48:38] I mean, for one, just the long Dr. Kim monologue that Austin cannot understand.

Speaker 6:
[48:43] Well, that's related to the gazpacho moment.

Speaker 7:
[48:45] I mean, true.

Speaker 6:
[48:46] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[48:46] But I mean, feeding into the gazpacho moment and like the longer play of the...

Speaker 6:
[48:50] I think he said wife and cold and soup.

Speaker 7:
[48:51] And soup. Also, I want to give him credit for this one because this is like a himbo moment that I think becomes something productive. When Eunice first shows up on his front door, panicked and trying to figure out what to do with the chairwoman's phone, he gives her the like, wait, give me a second to catch up. Classic himbo stuff. Just needs to like, just let the man process. But then he formulates the like backup plan of actually backing up the phone onto a hard drive, taking it to the police, something that Eunice is like a little frazzled to put together in that moment. So the himbo comes through sometimes.

Speaker 6:
[49:23] Something I feel like they could have done on the way to the airport.

Speaker 7:
[49:26] They sure could.

Speaker 6:
[49:27] On the way to LAX or wherever we're flying out of, you know? I know it took them a while to get there. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, the whole sequence with Eunice in Coach feeling like everyone is watching her was very unsettling, I thought, really well done. All right, name drop slash celebrity cameo.

Speaker 7:
[49:44] I think it's mining specifically the special features from the Mockingjay Part 1 Blu-ray for plastic surgery reference photos.

Speaker 6:
[49:52] I had that in pop culture reference, but it's very good. I think Phineas, who composes the music for the season, shows up, mention, so Phineas is a celebrity cameo, and inside that celebrity cameo, he name drops Billie Eilish.

Speaker 7:
[50:04] This is why I had it as my pop culture reference. And also again, not just name dropping Billie Eilish, but Billie hates Lindsay.

Speaker 6:
[50:11] Yeah, Billie hates Lindsay, and also a Billie Eilish Phineas song is playing while Phineas is working out.

Speaker 7:
[50:18] If you were an artist on par with the Phineas or a Billie Eilish, would you ever listen to slash work out to your own music?

Speaker 6:
[50:25] Not like in that, like maybe I would sometimes while I'm working, listen back to work that I had done to be like, was that good? Is there inspo I can draw from it? But I'm not like turning it-

Speaker 7:
[50:35] Well, you famously did this with all our pit pods. You just roll them as you're working out, you know?

Speaker 6:
[50:41] No, but I wouldn't like, I would do that while I'm working. But if I'm like working out or doing dishes or whatever it is when you're listening to something, I am not playing our podcast, Rob. I hate to tell you that.

Speaker 7:
[50:52] No, I really hope not.

Speaker 6:
[50:54] Dear God. All right. Most cutting critique of Gen Z.

Speaker 7:
[50:58] I actually thought we got away from a lot of the generational commentary in these episodes.

Speaker 6:
[51:02] I think you're- I was going to give you credit here, Rob, as a gift to you.

Speaker 7:
[51:06] Wow.

Speaker 6:
[51:06] My gift to you. Your season long Gen Z is avoidant observation is made explicit here when Austin's mom says this. So I think that is interesting. Then also, I just think the comment, a coyote is a coyote and an Ashley is an Ashley. There's something-

Speaker 7:
[51:23] That's transcendent stuff.

Speaker 6:
[51:24] There's something generational about that, I think.

Speaker 7:
[51:26] I mean, we apparently needed more of Austin's mom than I even thought I ever knew.

Speaker 6:
[51:30] This is because I hit you when you were a kid.

Speaker 7:
[51:34] We never got any follow-up on Ashley's mom.

Speaker 6:
[51:37] I know.

Speaker 7:
[51:38] I'm kind of surprised by that.

Speaker 6:
[51:39] Well, you know, the abandonment by her parents is why she is the way she is.

Speaker 7:
[51:43] Fair.

Speaker 6:
[51:44] All right. Elder millennials.

Speaker 7:
[51:45] Yeah, I think same category for me. I just really didn't find- I thought they moved away from a lot of the generational commentary, even on the millennial side.

Speaker 6:
[51:52] They did. I have a few.

Speaker 7:
[51:53] Oh, wow.

Speaker 6:
[51:54] For the boomers, Troy's saying, I don't go to therapy, I golf. Well, sure. Great.

Speaker 7:
[51:59] But that's not millennials.

Speaker 6:
[52:00] For the millennials, I'm giving it to Josh's going out shirt that he wears on his date.

Speaker 7:
[52:06] OK.

Speaker 6:
[52:07] Very Peter Sarsgaard and presumed innocent.

Speaker 7:
[52:10] You know what? Direct hit.

Speaker 6:
[52:12] Then crushing the Viagra and rubbing it on his gums.

Speaker 7:
[52:15] OK. I'm glad you brought this up. What was the entire point of the double Raya Catfish moment where he ends up crushing the Viagra and rubbing it on his gums? Is it just literally so that the assassin can get Josh to open the door?

Speaker 6:
[52:31] Was that what that was? Or was it just that JB, the assassin, shows up coincidentally right around when you thought it was a Raya Catfish? Because why do it? I just thought JB showed up coincidentally when Josh was expecting a Raya date.

Speaker 7:
[52:48] I'm seeing too many dangling ends here. And I say that in part because we've got a lot of Viagra consumed. I was kind of waiting for-

Speaker 6:
[52:58] I was like, is Mallory Rubin here on this podcast? What's happening?

Speaker 7:
[53:00] There was just a boner joke to be made that was never made. Even if it was just the side gag of you zoom out when he's being strung up to be posed for suicide and he has a gigantic boner during that moment, I think could have been very funny.

Speaker 6:
[53:13] Like a fear boner?

Speaker 7:
[53:14] I mean, a medicinal boner in this case. Yeah, a medicinal boner.

Speaker 6:
[53:19] Is that the most effective way to take Viagra though?

Speaker 7:
[53:22] Rubbing it on your gums? This is news to me, but it's a very funny way to take Viagra. That's for sure.

Speaker 6:
[53:25] That's what I thought was like very elder Mallory. It's like treating Viagra like a party drug is pretty great.

Speaker 7:
[53:30] So are we to accept then that some woman who just, I mean, in her words, just really needed to be fucked?

Speaker 6:
[53:37] It's Oscar Isaac, Rob.

Speaker 7:
[53:40] No.

Speaker 6:
[53:41] In a micro mullet.

Speaker 7:
[53:42] I'm not saying I don't understand what happened here, but she just showed up to Josh's house.

Speaker 6:
[53:47] To Josh burying a Korean in the mulch.

Speaker 7:
[53:49] Okay, you know what? Maybe this is not the vibe tonight.

Speaker 6:
[53:53] And she's like, I'm gone.

Speaker 7:
[53:54] I just want a post-credit scene where she's just like sitting there waiting on the stoop. Just like, is this guy gonna show up or what?

Speaker 6:
[54:00] Speaking of, we talked about a lot of the character wrap-up. Are you comfortable with Burberry the Second being with Josh's sister? Like, is that a happy enough ending for Burberry 2?

Speaker 7:
[54:09] I'm happy about it.

Speaker 6:
[54:10] To Burberry.

Speaker 7:
[54:11] I don't think Josh is a very good dog dad at this point in the story. Plus he's going to prison anyway. So we gotta take care of Burberry 2, Michael Kors, whatever you prefer. I'm very glad that dog does not share the quality of running out of every open door though.

Speaker 6:
[54:25] It's true.

Speaker 7:
[54:26] The heart could not have taken it again. So mercifully just likes to lounge.

Speaker 6:
[54:31] Needle drop.

Speaker 7:
[54:33] It's got to be the Phoenix, right?

Speaker 6:
[54:35] Love like a sunset part one.

Speaker 7:
[54:37] Maybe that in itself is a millennial skewering of a kind.

Speaker 6:
[54:41] In the official Netflix write-up of this episode.

Speaker 7:
[54:45] What have they said?

Speaker 6:
[54:46] It's in the first sentence. It's like millennial fave. Phoenix plays over the closing of the episode. I think they use a Billie Eilish bad guy while Phineas is working out. Phineas gave an interview to Variety where he talked about playing a really douchey version of himself. I think it was put in post that they put the Billie Eilish over him working out. I thought it was really funny.

Speaker 7:
[55:12] Also, I can't say I'm super familiar with Phineas and his whole deal, but I would never have known that this has turned up the dial on douchey.

Speaker 6:
[55:20] I don't know Phineas in real life, so I can't say what he's really like, but he gives up good energy in his interviews.

Speaker 7:
[55:27] Okay, that's good. He doesn't give off, you would hit it off because she's Latino.

Speaker 6:
[55:31] No, there are some people where I'm like, you're just playing yourself, bro, but Phineas seems pretty chill actually. Pop culture reference.

Speaker 7:
[55:37] Yeah, for me, this is just the Phineas, Billie Eilish exchange that we talked about earlier. So it seems like we just swapped our mocking Jays and our Phineases.

Speaker 6:
[55:44] Well, I would all say this is where I would put the second After Sun shout out that we get here. And so a question I primed you for, this is the exchange. Oh, fun. They have After Sun. You want to watch. And Austin's like, I got to go do this, blah, blah. And then later, we're going to get our mescal on, is what he says, which is something I've definitely been known to say. We got to get our mescal on. So after we get double After Sun. So After Sun on a plane. That's inherently hilarious.

Speaker 7:
[56:10] It's a choice.

Speaker 6:
[56:11] If you've never seen After Sun, that's a hot bummer of a movie, a great movie that I love, but that's a hot bummer of a movie. And so the question I posed to you before we started recording is, what's the worst A24 movie that one could watch on a plane?

Speaker 7:
[56:25] See, there are so many different kinds of worsts, which is what makes us a wonderful question. I think if you were going in the After Sun range, I would say Come On, Come On is a similar, like you will be in pieces by the end of this movie experience. That to me is like, there are a lot of people cry on planes. There's some people who just feel physically predisposed to cry on planes because of the atmospheric conditions.

Speaker 6:
[56:42] I do, yeah.

Speaker 7:
[56:43] So that part doesn't feel singular to me. I think the worst thing to watch on a plane by far is Baby Girl. Is it not?

Speaker 6:
[56:50] Just because you're embarrassed.

Speaker 7:
[56:52] Here's the thing, it's both raunchy and very identifiable. If you know, you know, and you'll realize what it is very quickly. If you don't know, your semate is going to be watching over your shoulder the entire time and making some pretty big assumptions about you, I would say.

Speaker 6:
[57:07] If you start watching a movie and there's some sexual content on the plane, do you stop watching? Do you try to put a barrier up? Or do you know where you frequent Mr. Skin and you know where all the scenes are?

Speaker 7:
[57:23] I am not frequenting, nor am I Mr. Skin.

Speaker 6:
[57:25] They used to do plane edits of movies. They don't do it anymore. And they're just like, kids on planes, we'll see you live and let live.

Speaker 7:
[57:34] I'm shocked and desensitized to a lot of it. Because if it's a movie you know, like, for example, The Nice Guys, a movie I love, I've pulled it up on the Inflite Entertainment and I forget that there's-

Speaker 6:
[57:43] Right away tits.

Speaker 7:
[57:45] Almost full frontal nudity to open that movie. I'm like, oh, I just forgot this was here. But of course, if it's coming up, I'm gonna fast forward it. This reminds me, I did have an occasion like this earlier where I was trying to catch up on some TV shows while I took my car in for maintenance. So I brought my laptop, I was gonna watch in the little waiting room. At the time I was watching-

Speaker 6:
[58:01] Next to the Keurig machine.

Speaker 7:
[58:03] Literally right next to it. I was watching the HBO series Looking, and I'm like, this would be a great time to catch up on Looking. Among the most gratuitous sexual experiences that HBO has ever put on screen, was not ready for it. And let me tell you, the fine people of Dallas, Texas were also not ready for it.

Speaker 6:
[58:20] Did you get a comment?

Speaker 7:
[58:21] I got some eyes. There are definitely some heads craning both toward and away.

Speaker 6:
[58:26] Wow, okay. I love Come On, Come On, by the way. That is a great movie.

Speaker 7:
[58:29] It's such a great movie.

Speaker 6:
[58:30] Such a good movie. I'm gonna give it to First Reformed, which is just like, I'm not saying it's a bad movie, but it's some of the worst vibes I've ever had watching a movie.

Speaker 7:
[58:39] Tremendously horrid vibes.

Speaker 6:
[58:40] Rancid vibes and you're trapped on an airplane, just marinating in that energy. Tough.

Speaker 7:
[58:47] I have also considered watching The Zone of Interest many times on a plane, because I haven't seen it and I was like, oh, it's on the queue, it's on my iPad. Should I watch it? I'm like, I can't do it. To this day, I haven't seen it because I refused to watch it on a plane.

Speaker 6:
[59:01] That's the only place you could watch it.

Speaker 7:
[59:03] Famously, the only place.

Speaker 6:
[59:04] The next category is Eat the Rich, which is, I think, an opportunity to talk about Ava and Troy's whole deal, which we can talk about. Before we get into that, I didn't prime you for this, but Ava has this whole, anyone want three Xanax, this whole get up on the plane.

Speaker 7:
[59:18] It's a really good Ava episode, or series of episodes.

Speaker 6:
[59:21] Absolutely. The mask, she's just got all her accoutrement for the flight. Obviously, you're a watcher of racy films on flights, but like...

Speaker 7:
[59:32] And in garages, apparently.

Speaker 6:
[59:35] What's your in-flight procedure? Do you sleep well on a plane? Do you need a pillow or an eye shade? Or what's your flight vibe?

Speaker 7:
[59:44] I sleep incredibly well on a plane.

Speaker 6:
[59:45] Me too. Have we talked about this?

Speaker 7:
[59:47] We have talked about it before, but I would say despite our stature. In theory, people are tall.

Speaker 6:
[59:52] We have talked about being really tall on planes.

Speaker 7:
[59:54] It's tough kind of contorting yourself into the seats.

Speaker 6:
[59:57] The Pluribus conversation.

Speaker 7:
[59:57] This is the cross that we bear, Jo. This is our struggle.

Speaker 6:
[60:01] Hard being so tall.

Speaker 7:
[60:02] It's very hard. Genuinely, you really gotta find your way to be comfortable, but I am known to pass out before we've even taken off and sometimes wake up as we're touching down. So it's not a bad way to fly if you get away with it.

Speaker 6:
[60:15] I remember we talked about this during Pluribus, I have some sort of biological response where no matter what, I fall asleep during takeoff. My body just shuts down during takeoff and sometimes I wake up immediately after takeoff.

Speaker 7:
[60:26] It is like a Joanna Robinson attuned EMP.

Speaker 6:
[60:29] Yeah, it's just really boom.

Speaker 7:
[60:30] You are out.

Speaker 6:
[60:31] I'm done. Yeah, absolutely. It is my preference to sleep through the whole flight if I can.

Speaker 7:
[60:36] But usually when I do sleep on a flight, I look a lot like Ava. I've got full neck pillow, sunglasses or eye shade of some kind, headphones in, I am sensory deprivation.

Speaker 6:
[60:47] Mallory and I are going to talk about this week on House of R, we're going to talk about insomnia. And Mallory's point was like, the entire movie is null and void if Al Pacino just packed an eye mask on his trip to Alaska. And I was telling her, I was like, yeah, but once, and you and I have had this conversation, once you start with an eye mask, you cannot go back. It's a for life arrangement that you make with the eye mask.

Speaker 7:
[61:11] Strong dependence.

Speaker 6:
[61:12] All right, Ava and Troy. Troy's delivery of, Fickner is completely innocent, I would say, in these final two episodes. I think he's great in them. But when he says, I met Ava after my first marriage ended, the way he like, Very clear. The way he emphasized after was so funny. That delivery was so funny. And then too soon, I got my vasectomy too soon, I thought was also like a really good delivery. And then Ava saying, I don't know what I can do to help, so please stop knocking, like was very eat the rich moment. And that's like his job. But anything else you want to mention in the eat the rich or Ava and Troy's whole deal?

Speaker 7:
[61:48] I mean, I would say not just Ava and Troy, but Chairwoman Park, I would lump into this category as well. I think her big speech-

Speaker 6:
[61:55] The most tenderest cut of rich that one could eat.

Speaker 7:
[61:58] Seriously.

Speaker 6:
[61:59] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[62:00] Her big explanation of like-

Speaker 6:
[62:01] Some wagyu rich.

Speaker 7:
[62:04] I'm not averse to it. I'm very open to it if it's available. But justifying basically all of capitalism as not just like a human system, but one that is fundamentally a state of nature. I'm like, come on.

Speaker 6:
[62:19] Like ants, I guess.

Speaker 7:
[62:21] I guess. But like on a cellular level, this idea that we're like designed to satisfy ourselves via capitalism as a system of self. I miss me with a lot of it, but also just a very funny speech for her to have.

Speaker 6:
[62:36] Last but not least, live it out with a beef or live it out with Le Buff if you prefer.

Speaker 7:
[62:41] I do.

Speaker 6:
[62:42] What do you have here?

Speaker 7:
[62:43] I'll poivre if we can.

Speaker 6:
[62:45] What do you have?

Speaker 7:
[62:45] I think this is the counterpoint speech. Like the Dr. Kim speech you were talking about, about the way that privilege allows people to court and embrace life as like a constant accommodation, right? That it's not something you have to deal with. It's not something you have to manage. It's like, how happy do you want to be and how would you like to do it? I found his speech to be really compelling. Again, like Song Kang-ho being on this show is crazy. Probably, I mean, definitely underserved by character, just like his role in it, but not mad to have him around.

Speaker 6:
[63:14] I mean, his delivery of like, you made it seem like you were fluent in Korean, like his whole frustration with them was pretty good.

Speaker 7:
[63:20] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[63:20] It did seem like quite telegraphed, this character is about to be shot in the head moment, right before he goes down.

Speaker 7:
[63:26] The departed it is not.

Speaker 6:
[63:27] Yeah. Oh my God. Spoilers for the department.

Speaker 7:
[63:30] I'm sorry.

Speaker 6:
[63:32] I would say the protest that we see in Korea and this conversation about the illusion of democracy is necessary though, that felt very living out with The Beef. Anything else that we haven't mentioned?

Speaker 7:
[63:45] I'm trying to think if there's anything really jarring. I mean, I do think on like a line by line level, I was laughing a lot with these episodes and specifically Lindsay's read about Ashley. Have you seen my friend short, cute, and sort of want to scold her?

Speaker 6:
[63:57] Yes.

Speaker 7:
[63:57] Does I think capture Kayleigh Spaniard's whole deal in a lot of different ways?

Speaker 6:
[64:00] I think also her delivery of, yes, my love when she wanted to throttle Ashley was incredibly good. It's very good.

Speaker 7:
[64:08] Calling Austin an utter toss pot.

Speaker 6:
[64:10] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[64:10] It's just a great Lindsay sequence on the play.

Speaker 6:
[64:13] Yeah. When they're like, you haven't changed your clothes. She's like, we're not going to the spa. What's wrong with you? All right. Well, this has been Beef, season two. We did it. I'm still, I have no regrets about watching the season television. No, no, no, not at all. Overall net positive, I think my thing with Beef, if there's another season, my thing with Beef is always going to be, this is going to go off at the rails at the end in a way that I don't love, but I enjoyed the ride there. So had a great time. I hope more people check it out. We're seeing, it's in the top 10 of Netflix. People are watching it despite the negative reviews. We're seeing a massive creep up on the podcast as people are sort of getting through their binge and watching it and listening to the podcast. But I think it deserves a good word of mouth, not a stay away from this because the ending is kind of hanky word of mouth. So that's where I am.

Speaker 7:
[65:01] The cast is so great. Again, the star power, the chemistry of all of these leads, I thought was really dynamite. And the formula itself, as far as what these first two seasons are, it is very replicable if you want to turn the cast over. Yeah, I would like a little less dramatic flair at the end, in part because I already love the elevated humanity of the first part of the story. And so it's like, can we just stick to that and find a way to conclude that in a way that is, yeah, big and flashy and theatrical, but maybe not like giant action set piece theatrical. Maybe not like people getting slashed in the face with scalpels theatrical.

Speaker 6:
[65:37] Do you think part of it was like that sort of Mike White Lotus thing where it's like, you guys want to go to Seoul? Where Netflix is going to fly us to Seoul.

Speaker 7:
[65:45] Why would you turn it down?

Speaker 6:
[65:46] Who says no?

Speaker 7:
[65:47] Yes.

Speaker 6:
[65:47] All right. Thank you to everyone who worked on the pod today. CT is here. Dev Ronaldo is here. I don't know if Kai is helping us with this, but Kai Grady, shout out. And thanks to you, Rob Mahoney.

Speaker 7:
[66:00] Thank you, Jo.

Speaker 6:
[66:01] We'll see you soon. Bye.