transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Indiecast is presented by Amazon Music. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indiecast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums by Nine Inch Nails and Friko, and we review the new indie music critic, Romcom, Mile End Kicks. I thought we were the only indie music critic, Romcom. My name is Steven Hyden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I wonder if he thinks it's appropriate to do a sportscast on the Mike Vrabel-Diana Racini story. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you?

Speaker 2:
[00:43] Yeah, I mean, you and I have had some difficult conversations about this. But I mean, you look at Mike Vrabel as a guy who got humiliated in the Super Bowl and then had an age-appropriate affair. I'm wondering if there's a section of the Patriots fan base that sees him as like the bravery to Bill Belichick's The Killers.

Speaker 1:
[01:00] Oh man. You mean in terms of the scandal component?

Speaker 2:
[01:03] Yeah, exactly. It's like, man, if you're going to be a Patriots head coach, I mean, like, there's certain things that they expect, which is to be the team that wins the miserable to watch Super Bowl. And then, I mean, I don't like Jordan Hudson came after the fact. But what can I tell you?

Speaker 1:
[01:19] Yeah, that's more of a, you know, a University of North Carolina era scandal for him than it is a Patriots scandal. Just like I don't claim anything that Brett Favre did with the New York Jets. Anything he did after the Packers, I don't claim. It is, I don't feel great that this is the first Sportscast of the Amazon era. I feel like they're not going to be too pleased that this is what they purchased. I only bring this up. It's a weird gross story. But the morning that we are recording this, there was a story that broke that Mike Vrabel is going to go to counseling on the third day of the NFL draft, which seems a little odd.

Speaker 2:
[02:04] That's awesome. The third day of the NFL draft, where you let the 22-year-old intern pick your guys.

Speaker 1:
[02:11] Look, if he has to go to counseling, good for him, although I'm unclear on what he's getting counseling for in this situation. But at any rate, if he's getting counseling, good for him. The third day of the draft is a little strange. A lot of people are speculating there's going to be another big story about Vrabel dropping and that this is a preemptive strike for that. So maybe that's already broken by the time of this post. I do feel like this was apropos to bring up just because later on in this episode, we're going to be talking about a movie about an indie music critic who gets involved romantically with two members of a band that she's covering sort of, but she's also acting as their publicist. So there's a related thing there, perhaps this is maybe a tortured tangent, but I'm just wondering for you, Ian, who do you think has a less ethical relationship with their sources, sports reporters or music journalists?

Speaker 2:
[03:08] I mean, Diana Ruscini could, she can't say the Patriots won when they didn't, but someone in a romantic relationship with the band can say the album is good when in fact is garbage. So I don't like, yeah, I mean, Mike, like I don't need my NFL coaches to be morally upset. I mean, there's like the John Gruden thing, which is disgusting, but like, you know, Mike Vrabel has like a side piece, like how I don't see how that is anyone's problem if they're consenting adults. I think we, and this is a very rare circumstance where music writers can have power, I guess, or leverage of, yeah, I mean, it gets back to the whole thing.

Speaker 1:
[03:50] Well, not even romantic relationships, like friendships, I would say.

Speaker 2:
[03:53] Oh, sure. You know, I've been there before.

Speaker 1:
[03:56] I mean, I'm sure there are instances where music journalists got involved with a musician that they were covering. I don't think that's a common occurrence in the Whisper Network. You don't really hear stories like that. But what is common is this person is my friend, and I'm going to write about them for this outlet. I do think that that's a common thing, and that is bad. On this show, you and I don't have friends, so people don't need to worry about that. We are ethically sound here at Indiecast because we're antisocial loners on this show. So if we like a band, you can rest assured that we have no friends, and we don't have to have any bias things going on. But yeah, I don't know. The sports world, I do agree that I don't want to be the moral police either. I do think that if you're a reporter, you shouldn't be involved romantically with the people that you're writing about. I think that's generally not a good idea. Even in this world where journalism is quickly eroding and it feels like it barely exists. Even then, I think you have to have some level of decorum and ethics in these matters.

Speaker 2:
[05:06] Yeah, but you also have to consider that when you see a journalist doing their job, it just creates this pheromone that is irresistible. People can't be held accountable for their actions when they see me at a show and I'm clearly tweeting something clever, whether or not it's about the show. We can't be held accountable for that.

Speaker 1:
[05:29] That's true. Yeah. The raw animal magnetism of a music critic. It's well-known. People have written poems about it and songs. The powerful allure of a music writer, especially if they're middle-aged.

Speaker 2:
[05:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:46] You got some graying going on or balding or you got a gut. That's very attractive. Let's talk about some new releases that are out today. Just going to do a rundown here. I'm looking at what's coming out today. Just to give people an idea of what they might want to look for as they go to the record store, the streaming service, wherever you might go. There's a new Foo Fighters album out today, Ian. It's called Your Favorite Toy, and I'm not going to make the obvious joke.

Speaker 2:
[06:13] Yes. Speaking of adult secret liaisons, if you will.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] You know, the Foo Fighters are a band, and I kind of love this relationship I have with the Foo Fighters where I don't consider myself a fan, but I own most of their records, and I feel like I have an opinion on most of their albums. Like, they're a band I know very well without really being a fan. Part of that is just being a music critic who's interested in mainstream rock bands. I am fascinated by their trajectory, but they are a band where it's really hard to tell one album from the next with the Foo Fighters.

Speaker 2:
[06:54] Yeah. You said Foo Fighters are a band. I'm like, you could stop right there. I'm thinking of a future Foo Fighters box set called Music Exists. Look, I used to do, I guess semi-ironic, but I really meant it, rankings of Hot Pockets. So I can't begrudge anyone who actually did a Foo Fighters album ranking list, which you actually did. I was going to make a joke about it, and you did it.

Speaker 1:
[07:15] I did, I did. I wrote one for Uproxx. Yeah. And it was a fascinating exercise. There are, I will say, I think the first three albums, I think, hold up. I do like the 90s albums, the self-titled Color and the Shape, and there's nothing left to lose. And I even have affection for One by One, which is from 2002.

Speaker 2:
[07:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:38] I know I'm getting into the weeds deep with you right now.

Speaker 2:
[07:42] No, I was there right with you.

Speaker 1:
[07:44] Do you know One by One?

Speaker 2:
[07:45] I do know One by One. I love how you mentioned in your article that this was the time of your life when you were just getting drunk every night and listening to Queen's The Stone Age songs from the death. And I'm like, yeah. I mean, I was 22. 2002, I've talked about this before, particularly the second half of it. That was a really down bad time. And I just remember being back home, thinking my next step and watching MTV almost as much, if not more so, than I did in high school. And that's all my life. That's the one that kind of rocks, right?

Speaker 1:
[08:20] Yeah, it's definitely, yeah. There was this trend of bands making their metal sounding record. Cause like Weezer put out Maladroid the same year. And I think of Maladroid one by one being in the same class.

Speaker 2:
[08:35] Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:36] It's these like K-Rock bands that are gonna make more metal sounding records. And then, immediately after, pivot to making just super radio-friendly music forever after that. But if you're a real head, maybe you like one by one. Other albums out today include, there's a new album by Failure, Location Lost. I don't know if this is their first record in a while. I don't know if you're a fan of Failure.

Speaker 2:
[09:02] Yeah, look, Stuck On You, amazing song. It's like, what if Weezer was a heavy shoegaze band? It was one of those songs I heard on the radio once in 1995 or something like that. I spent years trying to find it. But they've become one of these bands that have become strangely influential, or at least name-check over the past decade, because every band, if they're not making Americana-type rock, they're making heavy shoegaze. And I mean, I think they put out a record, maybe like seven years ago, they're always just sort of around. And yeah, they're a band that like never really got into. I feel like everything they did, Hum did better. Not mad at it, but yeah, it's stuck on you. Amazing song.

Speaker 1:
[09:46] They have a record called Fantastic Planet that I'm a fan of. And I wouldn't really liken them to Hum. They are more of like the Foo Fighters version of Hum, where it's just like really catchy radio songs. And when I say that, I mean that as a compliment, because like 90s Foo Fighters, I think wrote really good radio songs. And I think Failure did that too. But as their name says, or maybe it preordained, like they weren't ever really a big band there. So they have that fortune in a way, in retrospect of being a band that has songs that sound like hits, that didn't become hits.

Speaker 2:
[10:19] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:20] So they're ripe for rediscovering that. I know there's like a documentary about them too, which I'm surprised by. But anyway, they have a record out, New Metric Album. That's a band I've never really listened to, a Canadian band, Emily Haynes. Do you have any Metric opinions?

Speaker 2:
[10:35] Yeah. I remember seeing Metric in Athens, Georgia in 2005. They played with this band South, who you might remember from Paint the Silence. Oh, yeah. I think five people were there, but it was so sad. I'd never been to a show like that before. But I will say that Metric, they are part of this upcoming Broken Social Scene, Stars Metric Megator of all the arts and crafts or paper bag bands. Metric might be the most popular of the bunch. That is a very sneaky. They got Shooter's Band. People love Metric.

Speaker 1:
[11:08] Totally, totally.

Speaker 2:
[11:08] Yes. So Hustle Row's awesome song, Don't Go Super Deep Otherwise.

Speaker 1:
[11:14] Yeah. Noah Kahan has a new album out, and that's getting really great reviews that I'm a little skeptical about. If you want to bring up Chaotic Good here again, is Noah Kahan a Chaotic Good client? If we're going to put on the tinfoil hat here in conspiracy theory. I don't know if you've listened to Noah Kahan at all. For those who don't know Noah Kahan, very successful singer-songwriter. I would describe him as like if Zach Bryan was from Massachusetts and was even more influenced by Mumford and Sons. So it's like a Zach Bryan thing, but not a whole lot of country in it, and like a Northeast singer-songwriter version of that. He's selling out Fenway Park, he's doing stadiums all over the country. This album got like four and a half stars from Rolling Stone. I saw NPR, wrote a rave review of it. I've heard the singles, they didn't seem all that different from other Noah Kahan stuff I've heard. I don't know, he seems like a nice guy, there's a documentary on Netflix about him, talks about his issues with anxiety. He's done a lot of talk trying to raise the profile of mental health. That's all positive. His songs though just seems bland to me. There's songs here and there that I think are all right, but I don't know. I understand the popular appeal, but now that he's getting all this critical shine, I don't really get that.

Speaker 2:
[12:47] Yeah. I mean, you want to talk about the 2002 Foo Fighters one-by-one era of both of us being in our own separate ways down bed. When I saw the Rolling Stone review of this album, I was immediately transported back to 2002 and thinking, I would absolutely go to Best Buy and buy this album based on the Rolling Stone review. Even if I'm like, I'm skeptical, but I got nothing better to do and I do have $8 to spend.

Speaker 1:
[13:15] It's totally a Best Buy album to me too. This is like a badly drawn boy.

Speaker 2:
[13:23] Now we're talking about, have you fed the fish era?

Speaker 1:
[13:26] Yeah, exactly. If he wasn't a British guy, he was a guy from Massachusetts. I'm just transporting everything to Massachusetts.

Speaker 2:
[13:33] You're making this guy sound like the dropkick Murphy's or something like that.

Speaker 1:
[13:36] He is though. Because he writes songs specifically about that region. He makes a lot of regional references. So Massachusetts looms large in his legacy. He's like the big time Jonathan Richmond here.

Speaker 2:
[13:53] I do think Noah Kahan should cover Get Up Kids, Mass Pike. That is a song I could hear him doing. It would help out my book. But with Noah Kahan, I don't think I could name any of his songs. I know Sticks Season, but I can't say I've...

Speaker 1:
[14:09] You just named one.

Speaker 2:
[14:10] I did. But I don't remember what it really sounds like. But every time at work when there's a pop playlist and there's a male vocalist and it's clearly not Harry Styles or a country guy, I ask, is this Noah Kahan? And the answer is always yes. So that's my experience with him. Yeah. And it's interesting you mentioned him selling out stadiums because I saw this other thing where apparently Post Malone and Jelly Roll's stadium tour is like not selling very well.

Speaker 1:
[14:40] Oh, I don't have a sense of where Post Malone is at this point. And Jelly Roll, I just wonder if people finally got enough of that guy. I mean, I felt like there was a period in 2025 where it was Jelly Roll nonstop. The world was a bakery and serving up Jelly Roll constantly. It was no good. Maybe people are getting wise to that. There's also a band that has a new record out. I don't know if you've heard of this band. I've been getting a lot of emails about this band, so they have a very active publicist called Portrayal of Guilt. This band sort of seems like how every year there's a black metal band that crosses over and regular music critics get into it. It seems like this could be that band. They're definitely black metal aspects to the music, but also pretty poppy in a lot of ways. Have you heard of this band?

Speaker 2:
[15:33] Yeah. I reviewed one of their albums in 2021. They were a band that would open for Def Havin and Touche Amore, and were in that sort of vein, so I'm familiar with them. Then they put out an album immediately after that called Christfucker, which was much more like black metal and edge lordy. I haven't really kept up with them in the time since, but this one at least sounds kind of interesting. I read the review today from a guy, I trust, and it talks about how there's kind of Manchester influence. There's also a Houston rap guy, so it sounds interesting at the very least. But yeah, I think they're kind of outside. They're more in that kind of run for cover label sort of deal. They're not that far away from being screamo, but I think you're right. I think Neurosis is obviously taking up the, they're not black metal, but that's the critical metal album. That's already locked down for sure.

Speaker 1:
[16:30] All the critics get together and they decide which black metal album are we going to get into, just like which jazz album are we going to get into. Usually the jazz album we're going to get into, it's a collaboration with a DJ of some kind. That's a good way to get the crossover critical love. Well, let's move on to our Fantasy Album Draft here. It's not going well, Ian, for either one of us. This is our first draft again of the Amazon era. I'm just going to keep declaring first of the Amazon era in this episode. I wonder if we're a little rusty, Ian, because you have a pick that's up and I have a pick that's up. Neither one of them is doing very well. Let's talk about yours first. You picked Jessie Ware, her record Superblood, which actually came out last week. Jessie Ware, of course, long running British dance pop diva. I feel like has usually been money in the bank for music critics. Albums have been reviewed very well over time. I mean, this was like relatively high for you, wasn't it?

Speaker 2:
[17:36] Yeah, I mean, this is, I'm gonna dovetail everything with the NFL Draft. This was sort of like the Ty Simpson pick where it's like, I got a bad feeling about it, but like, it kind of looks like, it kind of looks the part. By the way, if your team's picking Ty Simpson, this is a guy who is being compared to Kenny Pickett repeatedly, but someone's gonna do it. Yeah, we got a good old-fashioned rock fight so far, like NBA playoffs, like Nick's Piston style. And with this album really, the way it presents itself to me is, as I mentioned, it's the NFL Draft out of the day we record. I cannot count how many hours I've spent reading NFL mock drafts or scouting reports. It's kind of a stimming thing I do throughout the year. And one of the running themes is finding out what constitutes old in the NFL. Like, you know, the Eagles have to consider life after AJ. Brown, not because he throws the entire organization under the bus because he's 28. Jesse Ware, I think, has hit that skill position. Player hits 30 wall, where they were someone who was gonna get you 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns. And then, you know, they tweak their knee and all of a sudden they're out of the league in a year. A 77 is not a total flop, but it's definitely an under performance and the places that are responsible for that, like Pitchfork and Pace, they definitely turn on her heart. I thought her last two albums were pretty overrated and there was, I think, some underlying resentment towards it. Like a lot of people who are really into like dance music and house and so forth and disco thought it was like kind of cruise ship-y or like H&M core, you know, someone who... Jessie Ware, I think she made a pretty candy pivot in 2020 with What's Your Pleasure, which is an album that really took advantage of, you know, the pandemic being a time for us to dance and like to forget about our troubles. And I think that kind of carried over to Yeah, That Feels Good, the next one. But yeah, it's sort of like where everything finally caught up to her. And you know, 77 is not bad. It's not going to tank the entire thing. But that's only because your pick also, I think it's going to go up a bit. But yeah, it's not, it's definitely not performing the way I imagine you expected.

Speaker 1:
[19:57] Yeah, we'll talk about Friko in a second. But I just want to follow up on some of the things you were saying about Jessie Ware, because again, this was an artist I feel like would have been a lock for a mid-80 in previous years, maybe five, six years ago. I would not have doubted her ability to perform well with critics at that time. Just hearing you talk about it, it did make me think about how for writers of our generation, there was probably a bit of a rubber stamping going on whenever there was a new spoon record or a new national record. Then you saw this new generation of critics come along who probably read all those reviews and felt like these people are just overrating these albums. Then they end up taking shots at them a little bit to even the playing field. I wonder if something is now happening with Jesse Ware, that late 2010s, early 2020s core of reviewers who just going for Jesse Ware. Now you've got these young kids coming up. They've been reading all these Jesse Ware reviews. I think there is a bit of a reactionary thing that probably happens. Where is this album that much worse than what she's been doing recently? I don't know. I feel like she was doing some cool stuff in the 2010s and then it felt like it was being reiterated in kind of a tired way. But she was getting excused for that. And maybe this is like a long time coming in terms of a correcting or a market correction of her reviews.

Speaker 2:
[21:20] I think early on she was sort of like the kind of Indie version of Adele or something like that. But that first record, the one where she samples Big Punisher, that song rocks, man. I love that song.

Speaker 1:
[21:34] Yeah, she had some cool stuff back in the 2010s. Shout out to Jessie Ware. Let's talk about Friko here. And we've talked about this band recently. We talked about them a bit when we were doing the Fantasy Album Draft. This is a band from Chicago, a young band. They put out their debut record a few years ago called Where We've Been, Where We Go From Here, that I was a big fan of. Like I said, I put it in my year-end list that year. I think it was 2024 that that came out.

Speaker 2:
[22:02] Yeah, because I reviewed that one, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[22:04] So we were talking about this album, the new record, which is called Something Worth Waiting For, which currently has a 76 on Metacritic, a disaster or would be if Jesse Ware had done well. I mean, now it feels like we're both pretty even. But we were talking about this record potentially being like a level up record, something that critics would get behind. And maybe this would be one of the breakout bands of 2026. And I want to be careful with how I talk about this because I don't think this is a bad record. It is a record I like overall. I think it's a solid B, like three and a half stars, 7.0, maybe a 6.8 type album. I mean, I'm curious for your case, for your take on this. I don't know if you feel differently, but it's the kind of record that it feels a little like a disappointment, I think because I really like the debut and it felt like, oh, they're gonna crush it on the second album. And the second album feels more like a lateral move to me than a progression. Doesn't feel like they've really nailed it. And I don't really know what it is about the album that makes me feel that way. When I listen to it, I just feel like something is missing. And I'm not sure what it is, but I just know that it doesn't have the wow factor, I think, that I wanted. It may be even expected from this record. So it's a tricky thing where it's an album I like, but the way I'm describing it makes it sound like I like it less than I do. Do you relate to that at all? Do you like it more than I do? What are your feelings on this?

Speaker 2:
[23:46] Yeah, I mean, I was a little apprehensive about talking about this album publicly, because I feel kind of the same way that you do, which is that, because I cannot not think in NFL draft metaphors. This was sort of like when you saw a year ago, the 2026 mock drafts, we see Drew Allard or Cape Club Nick. They're definitely gonna go number one. They have clean tape, they're toolsy. They do stuff we like, they do it well. Their first album is perhaps the only one I can think of that actively name checked the Yuck self title as a major influence. And it's like, yeah, you know what? This sounds like a sort of album that would have been reviewed by the person in Mile End Kicks in 2011. I say that positively.

Speaker 1:
[24:37] But it would have been the albums that this inspires. Cause this is definitely a Indie Rock of the aughts type revival record.

Speaker 2:
[24:47] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[24:48] You can hear Arcade Fire, you can hear Wolf Parade. You can hear a lot of those maximalist Indie bands that you and I, of course, came up listening to and writing about. And there's something very appealing about that for people our age, but also I think younger listeners who are going back to those records and like them. And the thing about that kind of music is that I think it's easy in a way to be that kind of band, but it's hard to nail it. Because you are operating at this operatic emotional pitch where every song has to be an epic. Every song has to just make your heart explode. And you listen to this record and it feels like every song opens with this kind of quiet guitar strum, or like a murmured vocal, and then it just builds and builds and there's crescendos. And then by the end, it's super loud and you're supposed to be blown away. And I just felt like I'm not really feeling blown away here. Even though I appreciate a lot of what's going on on the record, it doesn't quite pay off in the end, the way that it needs to for this to really work.

Speaker 2:
[25:55] Yeah. And there are two things I can't stop talking about. First of which is the NFL Draft. The second is Bush's second album, Razor Blade Suitcase. And I had a thought recently about their song, Swallowed, where I said if it was 10% better, it'd be awesome. But, and I think this is kind of in the same sort of sphere where I think of it, and I think you like the Rap Boys album more than I do, but, and it might be due to expectations or the fact that like it's been fairly humdrum, Q1, Q2, but this is an album I have expectations for and I need it to knock me on my ass because I know we don't get a lot of records that can level up like this, of this sound. And it didn't quite get there for me, which, you know, I want to be, and maybe I'm just like being impatient because like they're a young band, this is album two. Maybe they get there with album three because that is not, that is something that tends to happen. But I think, if anything, this album is a victim of my own expectations and my own thirst to be knocked out in a specific way by this specific kind of music. But I also think that this is going to be an album that I'm going to enjoy more once it's actually on streaming and I'm not doing it through the media player, you know what I mean? This happens a lot.

Speaker 1:
[27:12] Yeah, I mean, well, I was sent a CD by the record label. So they knew who they were dealing with. So I've listened to this in my car on CD. And just to reiterate what you just said, they are a young band and I'm going to be excited to hear their third album. I mean, I think that they are on a path. I think they have a lot of talent and a lot of potential. And maybe we'll feel differently in six months when the expectations have been cleaved from the album and you can just listen to it as a record. So I think there is a lot on the record that is enjoyable. And I really like their aesthetic. I'd like to see them live too. I bet they'd be a really good live band. But yeah, I just felt like I wouldn't even say 10%. I feel like they're about 75%, 80% of the way there. It's just missing that gear that would really kind of kick it up to something that was really special beyond what it is now, which I think is again, it's like a B level record, which is a really good level to be. A lot of bands don't even get to that level, but it's not, this is gonna be on my year end list for sure. And be one of the records that I go back to as one of the great albums of the year. At least that's what I'm saying now. I've often changed my mind on stuff like this.

Speaker 2:
[28:32] Yeah, this is an album, if it came out in 2012, which it absolutely could have. I would have happily put it at like number 38 or 36. But that's also because I would be listening to like 200, 300 records. I need albums of this sort to hit more immediately. That's not Friko's fault. That's mine. But, you know, this is where we're at right now.

Speaker 1:
[28:54] You know, okay, so Friko got a 76. Jesse Ware got a 77. You know who we didn't pick that just came out recently. And they're an 81. So like not a world beating score, but much better than what either one of us is doing. Nine Inch Noize, the Nine Inch Nails Boys Noize record, which I think we were joking about a little bit last week.

Speaker 2:
[29:14] We were.

Speaker 1:
[29:15] But I feel like coming out of South by Southwest, coming out of Coachella, excuse me, that set was really well received. I feel like Trent Reznor is now on his like fourth or fifth revival at this point. There's this new waves for Trent Reznor. It feels like every five or six years. And this album, you know, where he's collaborating with this German electronic DJ named Boys Noize, and they've been doing a bunch of shows together. And this record is like Boys Noize re-imaginings of classic Nine Inch Nails songs. And I listen to it. It's a lot of fun. I mean, obviously, Nine Inch Nails music really lends itself to this sort of thing. I mean, you can probably be people doing this in 50 years, you know, some sort of person, you know, re-organizing, re-imagining, remixing Nine Inch Nails songs. And it's they're going to sound good then too. Is this the modern version, Ian, the EDM version of Neil Young and Pearl Jam collaborating together? Since you brought up the Bush thing, I feel like I got to make another mid-90s reference here. But yeah, Trent Reznor, he's just, he's deathless, I feel like, as a cool reference point.

Speaker 2:
[30:33] Yeah, I was thinking that no 90s alt rock superstar has aged better than Trent Reznor, but then I'm like wondering if any 90s celebrity in general has aged better. You know, he's absolutely jacked. He's continued to stay relevant through his soundtrack work. Like this is someone whose soundtrack work might actually have superseded the new Nine Inch Nails music. And they released just enough new music to be on tour. And I've heard just nothing but amazing things about the live show. And which made me more excited about this than any Nine Inch Nails thing since The Fragile, I guess, because there's just this interesting musical angle. It's technically a live album. And you know, I don't know if this is Secret Shame or like a quasi-yay-nay, but I'm pretty a la carte with Nine Inch Nails, even as a 14 year old. I'm like, yeah, I like the downward-spiled singles. But you know, when I hear this album, like I think it's song two, that's like the God is dead and no one, like a heresy, I think. I'm right back where I started when I was like 14 and thought, you know what, this feels like a bit much, you know? So because I don't have the nostalgic attachment, like the way I do with like Smashing Pumpkins, which by the way, I do think Billy Corrigan is seeing another 90s alt rock guy having a moment. He can't stand that. So he's like getting on stage with Somber and trying to winnow his way into things as well. I appreciate Nine Inch Nails' existence, but my favorite Nine Inch Nails song is probably La Mer from The Fratril, cause it's an instrumental. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:14] I mean, I like them more than you do. I just feel like their music now, it's even with the God is Dead stuff, to me it just seems like new order. You know, like what that was in the 80s, that's what Nine Inch Nails feels like to me. Just like really well made and hooky, like electronic rock music. And the song craft of Nine Inch Nails, which I think, you know, they, people love them obviously in the 90s, but I think that the craft of Trent Reznor's work has really come to the fore more since the 90s. I think in the 90s, his image was so predominant in the music. The album covers the music videos just the way he carried himself. That when you hear this music 25 years later, it just hits as such well made pop music. And really well made rock music too, but like the pop aspect of it in the same way that you can listen to Blue Monday or True Faith or these songs that just seem indestructible. These Nine Inch Noize songs have the same quality and they can withstand any new person coming in and changing it up. And I think there's something about Nine Inch Noize that's unique too and that Trent Reznor can do these things. And they don't feel forced in the same way that maybe Billy Corrigan being on stage with Sombra feels forced. That feels a little more like, let's bring up the old timer and sing this oldie. You know, with Reznor, it doesn't feel as much like that. It is more of what it felt like for Trent Reznor to collaborate with David Bowie in the 90s, like how Bowie could hang out with these younger people. And he didn't seem like grandpa trying to be a cool guy, even though technically that's what it was, but he was such a cool, timeless figure that he could do that and he could just exist in these different contexts and it would make sense. And Reznor's been able to do that in a way that I think is surprising to me a little bit, because I think those Nine Inch Nails records, I love those albums, but they're very 90s in how they sound and just the way that they carry themselves as these like angst creation machines. You could have seen a time where they would have been ghettoized as 90s relics, but somehow they've broken out of that and have this universal appeal to them.

Speaker 2:
[34:42] Yeah, I think that Nine Inch Nails is eternal. You brought up New Order. I think of them more like the Pesh mode where you see David Gohan at 60, but it still sounds convincingly like him. You can say what you want about the new music. The archetype is eternal. This music will always be relevant. It will always find an audience. It's not like Weezer. Weezer will always find an audience. Trent Reznor has done absolutely nothing to sully the brand, which I think makes this... I'm not mad about what Nine Inch Nails does, but I will believe you when you say it's amazing, but will I go the extra mile to spend 150 bucks to get tickets? I don't know if I'd go there. If someone sent me there, I'd be so stoked, but I'm probably not going to pay for it.

Speaker 1:
[35:32] Well, let's talk about the movie that we teased in our introduction. It's a new romantic comedy that is maybe playing in a theater near you if you live in a big city. Otherwise, I'm sure this will be coming to streaming very soon. It's a movie called Mile End Kicks. This is a movie that Ian and I, we've been talking about amongst ourselves for a while. I don't think we've talked about this yet on the show.

Speaker 2:
[35:56] Might have mentioned it in passing, but we definitely haven't dedicated substantial time to it.

Speaker 1:
[36:01] This is a movie written and directed by Chandler Lavec, who is a Canadian writer director who made her debut for feature films in 2022 with a movie called I Like Movies, which is a coming-age story about an awkward teenager working in a video store. I kind of want to see that movie after seeing this movie. She's also directed a movie called Roommates, which is a Netflix movie starring Adam Sandler's daughter, Sadie Sandler. So she's got a foothold clearly in the more mainstream world of filmmaking. This movie, this new movie, Mile End Kicks, however, this is more like an indie film. And it's an autobiographical work for Chandler Lavec. She used to work as a music journalist in Canada back in the early 2010s, which is when this movie is set. And in the movie, there is a doppelganger for Chandler Lavec called Grace Pine, played by Barbie Ferreira from the show Euphoria. And it's about how she becomes romantically involved with two guys in the same band while living in Montreal in 2011 and writing a book about the Alenis Morissette album, Jagged Little Pill. You and I were pretty skeptical, I would say, about this movie based on the trailer, which, like most trailers, is pretty reductive and I think made the movie look cornier than it was. You and I also are coming at it obviously as people who were also music critics working in this era, not in Canada, in America, but you and I have pretty direct connections to this music world, the milieu of the film. So I had some skepticism going in, but I'm just gonna say at the top, I really like this movie a lot. And I feel like we could talk about the romcom aspect of it, but really I think for this show, it's really about how accurate this film feels as a representation of what it was like to be a music journalist in 2011. And I have to say, you know, you and I, we have to be careful about how we talk about this movie, because the sexism of this world in the early 2010s is a big theme of the film. And I feel like a scene where two guys in their 40s talk about this movie could be a scene in the movie. So we have to be careful here. But I am a fan of the film. And I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. I just want to say, hope I'm not giving anything away here. We were watching this at the same time, basically. Like we each had screeners. We were in different parts of the country, but we were watching at the same time. And you texted me at one point to note that in the film, the Grace Pine, the film critic, the music critic, I mean, gets a promo copy of the Joanna Newsome album, Have One On Me, which you pointed out came out in 2010, not 2011. So, which is, I think, more of a condemnation of nerds like us, that we would even notice something like that.

Speaker 2:
[39:19] Yeah, it's like the most me thing to do. Like my wife, I was happy we got a screener because I think my wife accurately predicted that if we were to... It's playing in like two theaters in San Diego at like 3 o'clock in the afternoon and 9.45 at night. She predicted that if we were to see this in the theater, it would be us two and maybe two other people and me just screaming like, come on at the screen like every five minutes. And the first part of the movie definitely lends itself to that because of that one thing where it's like, this album came out in 2011. Like what kind of operation is Merge Magazine running? And then in the very next scene, and I don't think, I think this is in the trailer too. I don't think this is much of a spoiler because it happens in the first two minutes, but you see this like group of four or five, you know, middle-aged music critics having a conversation about Husker do. It just reminds me of like one of my least favorite movie tropes, which is when you see like a buddy cop, or like two law enforcement guys who have been together for 25 years, and you see them in the car, and like they're trying to show how they've been through thick and thin by having these like deep conversations they probably would have had in like the first week of knowing each other. Look, I never worked in an office in 2011, but music critics were not talking about Who's Gurdue and the Minute Men. They were talking about Woo Life. Where's the Woo Life representation in this movie?

Speaker 1:
[40:44] Woo Life was constant in 2011. We all know this.

Speaker 2:
[40:47] Do better.

Speaker 1:
[40:48] Well, I mean, I think the point of that scene isn't the, isn't Who's Gurdue necessarily. It's this idea of like men talking about music and not caring about the opinions of women or keeping women locked out of the conversation, which is something again, as two guys, we can't speak to how that feels viscerally. Like I totally understand that. I would just say that the guys who are standing in that semicircle, they also don't like most guys. Like they're just dismissive of everybody.

Speaker 2:
[41:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:20] I would say.

Speaker 2:
[41:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:22] Which is not to, you know, downplay how awful guys like that were to women in this scene back then. I'm just saying they're awful to people like me too. So just keep that in mind. But I just want to say that overall, I was kind of shocked by how detailed this movie is. I actually think it's for the kind of movie that it is. I thought it was like incredibly accurate as a depiction of music writing. I thought there were a lot of details that rang true. It's not perfect, but also it's not a movie about music writing. It's a movie about these characters and the details are just the world that they inhabit. But I don't know, there's a plot point in the movie where the main character gets a book contract with 33 and a third, which is the book series of those little pocket-sized books about albums. And her advance for the book is $500, which is a terrible advance, by the way, in publishing. It's practically nothing for publishing. But I just thought the fact that they reference 33 and a third and don't really explain it. I mean, I think there's one little thing where she says, oh yeah, it's a book series about albums, but then also gets that crappy advance nailed down. Also the bit about how she wrote 400 articles in one year.

Speaker 2:
[42:50] Yeah, that's cap.

Speaker 1:
[42:52] There were so many things about what it was like to work for an Alt Weekly at this time, which I did. I was on staff at an Alt Weekly in 2011. That I thought, this is way more accurate than it even needs to be, as a depiction of this. Any fear that I had going into it, that it was just going to be this stupid representation of the world. It was really put to bed. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I was pretty impressed by the very similitude of the movie.

Speaker 2:
[43:23] Yeah. It's not just the fact that they have Tori Muir and Lower Dens posters up in her room. But I think the 33 and a third, I think that was the real turning point for me with the movie, because my concern was that it was going to be a movie about someone writing a 33 and a third, not like a romantic comedy that so happened to take place in the rise of Arbitus Records. But once they said the advance of $500 and just set the stakes of this person is taking three months to do like this writer's retreat in a more expensive city to write a book and get $500 advance. That's what really like drew me in because it's like, I think too often if you know, in the rare circumstances where a music critic is represented in film or TV, it's similar stereotypes where they're either an insufferable snob or just a different type of snob. But yeah, this made me think like, oh, this person knows how to do the deal. They really capture the experience of sitting at a computer and just thinking like, oh my God, I spent an entire day writing three paragraphs and this all sucks. You know, it is, I think at the end of the day, a cringe rom-com, and I say that positively. But there's also points where you could see it being a, I guess like other wrestler style cautionary tale about how being a music critic will ruin your life. I don't like, there's some things that are romantic about this movie, about like being in that sort of art space. I love how there's like a character who's clearly supposed to be Grimes. But I don't think they romanticize it. I mean, there's certain aspects they have to for dramatic license. So it's not just something that appeals to people who know like a pitchfork joke when they make it. And by the way, there are pitchfork jokes. They feel natural. They get it out of the way super early.

Speaker 1:
[45:27] Well, and it feels organic to the world. And they're not really jokes making fun of pitchfork. I feel like they talk about pitchfork in a way that again felt organic.

Speaker 2:
[45:37] Yeah, it's just part of the atmosphere.

Speaker 1:
[45:39] I mean, I think with this film, it is an interesting experience watching it if you like live through this world, because I agree, it doesn't romanticize it. It's clear that she is writing about her own experiences dealing with not just other writers, but also dealing with bands and the complications of being a woman in these spaces where you're trying to interview people, but then there's also this weird underlying thing going on a lot of times when you're interacting with these artists, especially if you're around the same age, which is what people were at that time. You and I were closer to people's age back then than certainly we are now. I did, however, when I was watching the movie, I wouldn't say I romanticized it, but there was a certain nostalgia for the world that it depicts where it does feel relatively robust in terms of a media environment as well as a band environment. The idea that this band would have any aspirations to being like a big band, which is what they have. It feels very much tail end of the indie era, which we've talked about many times on this show. 2011, it still felt like the 2000s at that point in terms of the music scene, but things were in the process of changing. The world that this movie is depicting, I feel like, was over pretty soon after 2011. It's a snapshot where you could maybe still, at the last moment, feel idealistic about going to a loft party and seeing a band that looks like they're in a different entertainment. The lead singer loves Ariel Pink. He's wearing a dress on stage, but he's actually a misogynist.

Speaker 2:
[47:28] They got the American apparel, underwear. There are some very specific details. If you were there in 2011, this person was in the field for real.

Speaker 1:
[47:40] The thing about this movie that I appreciated is that every character is complicated, including the main character. And Barbie Ferreira, shout out to her. I don't know if she was embedding with female music journalists. She just seems like so many music writers that I've met over the years. She's very convincing as a music writer in this film. But I think Chandlin Levesque, she does a really good job of seeing the world as it is from her perspective now, which is where I think a lot of the more jaundice views of the film come from, especially again of her male co-workers. I mean, there's a scene in the movie where she's involved in a, I don't want to get too much away, but there's a scene in an office involving some romantic act, and the guy in the scene is wearing a hold steady t-shirt.

Speaker 2:
[48:40] By the way, during the screener, we're watching the screen, it's got the name Steven Hyden at the bottom the entire time, so you see that as part of this scene.

Speaker 1:
[48:49] And Jay Baruchel plays this guy.

Speaker 2:
[48:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[48:53] A Canadian comedy legend. So she's clearly looking back on this with a sense of perspective that maybe she didn't have at the time. But I think the film also stays true to what her perspective was probably like when she was 22, and actually living through this stuff. And how, yeah, it is exciting going to you, your first party or the first time you smoke weed with a guy in a band or whatever it is. And it stays true to that. So it has a little bit of that almost famous, like, romance to it in that respect. But I think she also brings a clarity of perspective to the material that would come from an older person looking back on it. And I just think that balance is really tricky, and she's able to pull it off. And just how she's able to depict the main character, too, is being really flawed. That it's not like she is this sort of idealistic character that comes into this bad situation. Like, she has her own bad moments and shortcomings, and just feels like a really human character. And yeah, the movie's not perfect, but I don't know, I found myself really liking it, and I feel like it's a movie I'm gonna end up thinking about after, you know, now that I've seen it.

Speaker 2:
[50:06] Yeah, likewise, you know, I felt like at the beginning, you know, if we were to talk about it, it would be like ice cast talking about like one battle after another because we're clearly like, or like Irish folk cast doing the same for Sinners because like we are the villains in this movie. Even like the awful Ariel Pink lead singer has more redeeming qualities than any person.

Speaker 1:
[50:27] And yeah, it's like if you see a gray bearded guy wearing a band t-shirt in this film.

Speaker 2:
[50:32] Yeah, it's over.

Speaker 1:
[50:33] He's Voldemort, basically, in this film.

Speaker 2:
[50:37] Yeah, I do. But I do like how balanced and how like rich each character felt like no one, you know, there were certain points that like, yeah, you have to kind of gin it up for dramatic effect. But they felt like very real people, like the band itself, the dynamic felt realistic. You know, the person who takes her in off Craig's list felt realistic. I remember like this was like 2011 and 2012 were the only times I was like writing full time as a music writer. And like when she go, there's a scene where she like looks on Craig's list. And I just remember that was such startling clarity. And I do look back on that time where it did feel like, yeah, I'll get money from MTV, Hive or Live Nation TV. There was more of a robust media ecosystem. And it is also the tail end of, you know, that like indie rock as the center of discussion. This is also something that happens in the first minute of the movie. The band Islands is seen as kind of a god. So that should give you a perspective of its time. But this is a rare movie where I like it more after I finish it. And as more I think about it, I think like how difficult it was to pull off a movie of this ilk, whether it's about the music writing itself or like the cringe rom-com thing, which is certainly not in short supply. Big yay, I really thought Barbie Ferreira did an excellent job of being that person. And when I was watching with my wife, she would say sometimes whenever Grace did, it's like, man, she sucks. And it's like, yeah, everyone kind of sucks. This movie is as much about music writing as it is about how when you're in your early 20s, you have an endless capacity for self-inflicted misery. You know, whether it's-

Speaker 1:
[52:23] Yeah, self-destruction and self-absorption.

Speaker 2:
[52:26] Yeah, our bodies are so resilient at that time.

Speaker 1:
[52:31] And also just how relatively low stakes it is when you look back on it, but at the time, it feels like everything.

Speaker 2:
[52:39] Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[52:40] Like she's writing this book. And like you said, she has three months to do it and she's getting 500 bucks for it. But for her, you know, it's like she's writing like the great Gatsby, you know, like she has to move to a different town, which you don't have to do to write a 33 and a third book. You don't have to move to a different town to write the book. But I think the movie is self aware about that.

Speaker 2:
[53:01] Yeah. When you're 24, you might think you have to.

Speaker 1:
[53:04] Right. Exactly. It's this epic journey and she's trying to figure out who she is and she's not perfect. She's making these mistakes, but she's moving forward. And yeah, really good movie. And Look Out, Almost Famous, you've got a competitor in the romcom starring an indie. Well, I guess William Miller wasn't an indie music critic. He's just a music critic. But this is like the new player in that realm, a very small genre. Maybe there's going to be a bunch of romcoms now starring music critics.

Speaker 2:
[53:36] Yeah. Maybe if they adapt Ryan Shriver's upcoming memoir to a biopic version. Shout to Ryan. I am both excited and anxious about whether or not I appear in there as well. So yeah, maybe you do as well. But yeah, big fan of the movie. I'm just thinking if they adapted my 2012, the big dramatic scene is where my girlfriend breaks up with me because she thinks I'm spending too much time doing an Interpol oral history of the 10 year anniversary of Turn on the Bright Lights. That actually did happen, but that relationship wasn't really going anywhere anyway.

Speaker 1:
[54:11] Well, and I think in retrospect, we can agree that she was probably right, that you were spending way too much time in that oral history of Interpols and Turn on the Bright Lights.

Speaker 2:
[54:19] Hey man, I got a Carlos D interview. Those things don't come up every day.

Speaker 1:
[54:34] All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talked about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

Speaker 2:
[54:41] So what I'm gonna do right here is lean into my status as a 40, mid-40s bald music writer, and recommend a album that's a couple weeks old from a band that you already likely know if you're a fan of this podcast. The new pornographers put out now, I'm a few weeks ago, called The Former Sight Of, and you might think, like, but why is this in Recommendation Corner? I know who they are. You know, they are a super group, or were a super group, responsible for one of the best first three album runs of the 21st century. But, you know, in the time since, Dan Behar of Destroyers left the band, Nico Case has taken on less of a role, the drummer Kurt Dahl, who was amazing on Twin Cinema. He's gone replaced by another drummer. I think you probably know what happened to that guy before he got replaced, but, you know, it's sort of a band that has put out records consistently and none of them at like, you know, they make a little bit of a ripple, but I don't think much about them. But this is, they're not back, but they found a new kind of lane to operate in. This is like a low key late career peak in that it's worldly without being political, which is always a risk because, you know, it's the creative vehicle of AC Newman, who with all due respect is very much a blue sky type guy. You know, it's softer without being weak. It's catchy without them relying on the same old power pop tropes. And it's just a really pretty and often sad album from a guy who's taking stock of what it all means in 2026. And this is a rare New Pornographers album that I find it affecting as opposed to just catchy. And so this is probably not an album that's going to get a whole lot of run on year end lists or things like that. But I find myself going back to this a lot more than albums I was more excited about at the outset. So if you haven't kept up with this band, maybe check this one out. It's definitely better than the one that came before.

Speaker 1:
[56:35] Yeah, I like this album too. And I've actually made the argument that what people used to say about Spoon, that they're the most underrated indie band around, doesn't really apply to Spoon anymore because they're not underrated. People keep calling them underrated so much that they are now, I think, properly rated. I think New Pornographers now, they're the new most underrated band in indie rock. I think over the course of their career, the first three albums are perfect, but they have more good to very good albums than I think they get credit for. This belongs in that camp as well, I would say. Over on my Substack, stevenhyden.substack.com, I did a big feature this week on 2020s Alt Country. Did a big survey of it. Wrote like a 4,000 word feature on it. Did a long playlist, 50 songs, twangy favorites from the decade. The piece was inspired by a record that actually came out a few weeks ago by a band from England called Brown Horse. They have a record out called Total Dive, and it's a record I love a lot. But it is an album that made me think, isn't it weird that a band from England is called Brown Horse, and singing songs called Heart of the Country, and Hairs, and Sounds Like They Came Out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I think it just goes to show that this kind of music, which has been bubbling up in Indie Rock for several years now, MJ Lenderman, Waxahatchee, Wednesday, it's really reached a point in 2026 where you're seeing, I think, a pretty large number of artists who are inspired by those figureheads of the genre in 2020s, and have really created an aesthetic of a country that seems specific to this time, in contrast, I think, with what was going on in the 90s. And I think that's really interesting. So I wrote a big thing about it. I actually like this Brown Horse record a lot, but they are a band straight from Central Casting, I think, with Indie Rock. I would recommend this album in the same way if I were a horror fan, recommending like a great example of the genre. Whereas if you love horror films, you're going to love this movie. I think with Brown Horse, if you love alt country, if you love twangy, all-American sounding Indie Rock, even when it comes from England, I think you're going to really like this album. I also want to do a really quick shout out to the band, Flory, another great alt country band, this one from America. They put on a live record this week called Smells Like Flory, Live Like Hell, and it is a tremendous record. I'm a big fan of this band anyway, but I think that this live album is the definitive document of this band. They're a fabulous live band. You really get a sense of the chaotic nature of this band when you hear the live record. I mean, their albums are pretty chaotic too, but just the energy and the swagger and how this band genuinely rocks in a way that, even bands that I love in the genre don't do quite as much. Florry, they're just a fire-breathing, hard-charging rock and roll band. Definitely check out this live album. I think it captures them at their best. And I also wrote about that a little bit in my big country feature as well. So if you like Twangy music, Twangy Indie music, please check out my sub stack. I think you'll enjoy the essay. That about does it for this episode of Indiecast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week.