transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:35] Hello and welcome to The Hoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing after midnight on Friday morning. We, playoffs are a cookin and a cracklin, and we got all kinds of stuff to talk about. Joining us from New York City, where the fans are wailing in the streets because the Knicks are down 2-1 to the Atlanta Hawks, is Tim Bontemps.

Speaker 3:
[00:53] Hello, fellas. We got maximum chaos here in New York City. Gonna be an interesting couple of days.

Speaker 2:
[00:58] We'll be talking about that in a few minutes when Vinny Goodwill will be joining us from Atlanta. But in the meantime, joining us from Dallas, Texas, a little respite in the Phoenix Oklahoma City Series, is Bad McMahon.

Speaker 4:
[01:11] Howdy, partners. Taking a little break from covering WWE and sat on a couch tonight and watched some NBA.

Speaker 2:
[01:19] I know he's been doing it for a few, I don't know if it's been a few months or a few weeks, but this Dylan Brooks pregame stare thing.

Speaker 4:
[01:26] It's been his career. He's been doing this for years.

Speaker 2:
[01:29] Has he really? I didn't. How come I've never noticed?

Speaker 4:
[01:34] He's a fairly intense guy and kind of a character, so.

Speaker 2:
[01:39] Yeah. I don't ever remember it being like this, but.

Speaker 3:
[01:42] It's definitely a thing.

Speaker 2:
[01:44] Yeah. All right. Anyway, to the game that literally just ended here from Minneapolis, the Wolves take a 2-1 lead with an alarmingly clean win over the Denver Nuggets. And what do we like to say here on the podcast? Well, it's one of our credos.

Speaker 3:
[02:06] Actions over words?

Speaker 2:
[02:07] That's right. And the Denver Nuggets actions at the end of the regular season were of a team that did not want to play the Memphis. They love to play the Grizzlies. They did not want to play the Minnesota Timberwolves. They can say whatever they want.

Speaker 4:
[02:22] Yeah, the words are the opposite, but.

Speaker 2:
[02:24] They can say whatever they want. Their defenses about player health may be in completely legitimate, but their actions showed that they were concerned about this series. And I'll tell you one thing, the Timberwolves, based on what Jaden McDaniels said, didn't seem to disagree with that sentiment. They seem to think that they had an advantage despite being the sixth seed. And then we had a big thing that's happening, and I wish this wasn't the case, but it is. But injuries are playing a significant role in the playoff series. We're going to go over all the things happening. But all of a sudden, we have a major change in this series, where Aaron Gordon pops up with a calf injury. He does not play in game three. That means that the Nuggets are in serious trouble on defense because they are not a good defensive team in the best of times. When they don't have Aaron Gordon, they crumble.

Speaker 3:
[03:18] And they're down Kate Watson.

Speaker 2:
[03:21] Whose return, he did show up as doubtful, right? Did he show up as doubtful?

Speaker 4:
[03:25] They're hoping he can come back during this series, but this is a hamstring that he's strained twice this season.

Speaker 2:
[03:32] Okay. So I was just going to say right now, MacMahon, this was one of the worst games I've ever seen Nikola Jokic play.

Speaker 4:
[03:40] This is one of the worst series that we've ever seen Nikola Jokic play. These last two games are absolutely incredible. You have to give Rudy Gobert credit.

Speaker 2:
[03:49] Oh, God, yes.

Speaker 4:
[03:50] I mean, Gobert is a four-time Defensive Player of the Year. And listen, by the way this series is going, probably going to come up in his Hall of Fame speech. That's what kind of series he's having here. Just some stats from our ESPN research folks. Jokic was 7 of 21 from the floor tonight when defended by Gobert. He's 13 of 40 in the series, including 4 of 19 from 3. And Jokic, through the course of time, Jokic has actually fared well when he was defended by Gobert. Remember the last series, they had success with Gobert kind of playing Rover and Cat being the primary guy on Jokic. Gobert helping heavily. But this is Rudy playing him one-on-one and Joker being shockingly inefficient. And Rudy's just, I mean, Rudy right now is the MVP of this series, despite the fact that he's not putting up huge offensive numbers.

Speaker 3:
[04:54] He's been awesome. I mean, and not to take anything away from Rudy, because he has been incredible. I mean, it is one of the best defensive series I've ever seen him play. And this is a guy who's one of the best defensive players of the generation. But Jokic has not looked right since February, frankly, since he came back from this bone bruise. And he hasn't, like he's still been really good. You still put up big numbers. But he's never been as good as he was before that injury. And you couple the way he's playing with now no Aaron Gordon, no Peyton Watson and an opponent that there's a lot of animosity with that has had success against them. And that came into the series with a healthy chip on their shoulder and has Anthony Edwards not at peak performance, I would say, and this knee still seems like it's an issue. But he's good enough right now. And we'll talk about it later with the Hawks too. But the favorite in the series, down 2-1 going into game four, that and down 3-2 going into game six on the road are the two best games in a playoff series. And this is going to be a huge gut check time for this Denver team with injury questions and performance questions and a hostile opponent on the road that's going to want to do everything it can to put their foot on their throat.

Speaker 2:
[06:16] Jokic missed 31 shots the last two games. Based on my research, far and away the most he's ever missed in back-to-back playoff games. He had a couple of bad playoff games, shooting games against the Thunder last year. Remember, he was the one game who went 0 of 10 on threes. But this felt even worse. And when you add to the fact that Jaden McDaniels was all over Jamal Murray. And look, Jamal Murray is going to have some bad games. But Jamal Murray, I mean, Jaden McDaniels said everybody on that team was a bad defender.

Speaker 3:
[06:45] Jaden McDaniels talked his talk, and then he came out and backed up that talk, including a gigantic Tomahawk slam to put the finishing touches on this game in the fourth quarter. He had 20 and 10 and was awesome. And this is one of the better rivalries in the league now between these two teams. And those Jaden McDaniels comments after game two were peak NBA rivalry comments. Everybody on the team can't do anything, including Aaron Gordon. Oh, you mean Aaron? Yeah, Aaron Gordon too. He can't hurt anybody either.

Speaker 4:
[07:15] They're all bad defenders. He said Aaron Gordon, I'm like, really?

Speaker 3:
[07:19] Hey, listen, but that was a pure venom. That was a pure venom comment for an opponent these two teams do not like each other and have played a lot of high leverage games. And it's very fun to see a guy do that and then come out and play great. And he was great in this game.

Speaker 4:
[07:37] So a couple of things. Number one, typically bulletin board material fires up the other team. In this case, it seemed to fire up Jade McDaniels because he's like, hey, sure did. I talk my talk. I better get out there and walk the walk and he absolutely did. The other thing, like I said, when he said Aaron Gordon, I was like, really? I was texting with Chris Heim, our buddy who does a great job covering the Timberwolves for the Minneapolis Star Tribune. And he mentioned that, so Gordon had in game one at the end, he had the garbage time bounced to yourself dunk, right? Kind of the dagger rubbed in your face dunk. Well, that might have been a throwback to, I guess McDaniels missed a similar dunk late in game seven. But like garbage time, like, let me rub your face. We just came back from 20 down on your home court to send your defending champion asses home type of thing. And so, I hadn't thought that throwing Gordon's name in there might have been a little response to, okay, you're going to, you know, you're going to throw my dunk at our face at the end of game one. Okay, I got something for you. The other thing is, you know, you mentioned Joker wasn't quite the same coming out of that injury with the bone bruise. And we've talked about this before, but what they were really concerned about wasn't the knee, but his wrist had been bothering him off and on. And I know there was at least one time, I don't know if there are multiple, I suspect there were multiple, I know at least once he had to get a painkiller injection in that right wrist. And I wonder if that wrist is acting up on him now. However, I will point out that wrist and everything else for Joker looked pretty damn good when he was putting 40 points and 13 assists with no turnovers on another tall Frenchman that we're all fond of his defensive prowess.

Speaker 2:
[09:48] Well, Chris Finch is speaking right now and he said that, he referred to Jaden McDaniel's words and performance as inspirational. And, you know, sometimes you see a player create bulletin board material and it become an issue. The fascinating thing about this is it, is it created, like you said, something to rally around. A couple of things about this now. Ann Edwards did not look good in this game. He was 6 of 15 shooting. And as the game went on, he was not moving well at all.

Speaker 3:
[10:24] He was moving back to the locker room on a couple of occasions.

Speaker 2:
[10:27] He went to the locker room, finished the game in the locker room. I don't think he came back up. So that knee is a thing. So we have something to watch here. Obviously, the Wolves are holding home court edge right now. But Gordon's status with that calf and then Ann Edwards, I assume he's going to play. But if he's limited like this, that will become a factor. So health, extremely important. And, you know, Jokic, 31 missed shots. And his three-point shooting, he's three of 17. Actually, oh my gosh, he's five of 24 in the series from three.

Speaker 3:
[11:15] I ain't going to get it done.

Speaker 2:
[11:16] He might have to stop taking him. If, you know, whether he's ice cold or whether or not that that it's something with that wrist again, you know, that is, you know, they're going to let him have it. They already are letting him have it because, you know, Gobert doesn't come out there. And so part, you know, Gobert is going to be in drop coverage. And even if he does switch, he's going to give you space. So that's playing into the way that the wolves want to defend. Jokic hoisting and missing that many threes. So, you guys have seen Jokic. The guy has had dozens of incredible playoff games. We've seen him have credible bounce back games. You know, last year, when he had those couple of bad games against the Thunder, you know, there was some, you know, talk about it and he came back and had 44 and 15 the next game.

Speaker 4:
[12:08] Yeah. No, yeah, so this series is far from over. And again, he's also had monster games against Rudy. It's not like Rudy is just like the kryptonite for him. I mean, there's the story. I forgot which of his teammates told the story. It was a regular season game. And it's late in the game. Angle Bear is like waving off the doze. I got him, I got him, I got him. The joker turns to Rudy and says, brother, I got 47. So, you know, playing them one on one with Rudy has not always been effective, but it sure as hell has been this series.

Speaker 2:
[12:41] Yeah. So listen, guys, I mean, you know, we're talking, I mean, you know, Denver is a team that I felt, you know, I wouldn't have favored it, but that's a team that I feel could beat, you know, could beat San Antonio if they got it to them. And, you know, I don't love their matchup against the Thunder, but they've given the Thunder problems in the past.

Speaker 3:
[13:05] They're not betting against Jokic if he's healthy in a playoff series. So it would have been, and it's, look, I shouldn't say would have been, it's not over, but, you know, they've got like 22 hours to turn around and play in this game, or 23 hours, or 48 hours, I should say, to play in this game on Saturday. And we'll see where Peyton Watson's at, we'll see where Aaron Gordon's at, but those are, you know, MacMahon mentioned Peyton Watson's hurt this hamstring twice. Aaron Gordon's had, unfortunately, a ton of muscle injuries this year, like last two years. They need, right, but I mean, they need Aaron Gordon to be great to win this series, not just to be out there. They need Peyton Watson to probably be good to win this series, not just out there at this point. And, you know, like, and again, on the other side, like, let's see where Ant's at. Like, you know, I mean, I'm sure Ant's going to play, but he, you know, it could easily swing the other way too. Like, this thing is far from over, but it is, you know, it's going to be fascinating to see how Denver handles this situation and certainly going to be fascinating to see how Jokic plays. I mean, this is not a guy who's accustomed to having three games like this in a row. I'd be very hard pressed to believe he's going to have a fourth game like that, especially with his team down to one of the series. It's going to be interesting to see how it goes.

Speaker 2:
[14:23] Series odds are a pick them, says Jackson, the Trap Kings. So which would you guys pick right now?

Speaker 4:
[14:31] Oh, you want us to make predictions?

Speaker 2:
[14:33] Well, you don't have to, I'm not told to.

Speaker 3:
[14:34] Gotta take Minnesota right now. I mean, they're up in the series. You have no idea what Gordon's status is going to be. I mean, obviously the ant question is a pretty significant one, how he's going to play going forward. But they're up to one in the series and one of the three best players and probably one of the five most important players in the series. I can't say for certain he's going to be able to play. So it's hard to pick Denver right now. I would agree. It's for me.

Speaker 2:
[14:58] Well, the six in the west is up to one. The six in the east is up to one. We're going to be joined right now by Vince Goodwill to talk about what went down in Atlanta on Thursday night.

Speaker 5:
[15:10] More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 6:
[17:46] I am in the wellness room inside of State Farm Arena, which is an apropos-

Speaker 2:
[17:50] Isn't that a good place to be?

Speaker 6:
[17:52] An apropos place considering what's happened here this evening.

Speaker 2:
[17:56] Well, that was, they haven't had too many big nights in Atlanta for basketball in the last four or five years, but this was one of them. And while it is going to be very tempting to for people to be focusing on the Knicks who are behind, I do think that it should be noted that the Atlanta Hawks who, you know, what were they? Under 500, one-tenths, Bontemps, like 12 games under 500, maybe at one point?

Speaker 3:
[18:26] I mean, they were languishing in 10th place, bordering on being in 11th place in the Eastern Conference at the All-Star break and then completely flipped things around after that.

Speaker 2:
[18:38] Well, anyway, you're in the arena tonight, Vince. A comeback victory in the late in this game. The Knicks were, you know, had, they had come back and taken the lead. And Jalen Brunson had made this terrific three-point play that looked like might give them leverage. And then everything went the Hawks way down the stretch. And that's now two back-to-back one-point wins for the Hawks. And they are ahead 2-1.

Speaker 6:
[19:05] I mean, you know the numbers about game three. What is it? 87% of the winners of game three is winning the series. But I feel like we can all point out recent examples of teams that win in game three and then not having anything else the rest of the series. I think tonight was interesting on a number of levels. For one, the Knicks could not get a good shot in the last minute and a half after they took the lead. Their final two offensive possessions were just gummed up by the Hawks. Jalen Brunson shot an air ball from the right side, which is usually the place where he likes to walk you down one dribble hesitation and pull up an air ball at that. And then the final possession was just a total cluster. They couldn't even get a shot off. It just seemed like everything that could go wrong would go wrong. And now you are looking at, are you going to be benching McHale Bridges? That is one of the questions that came.

Speaker 2:
[19:54] Well, McHale Bridges was scoreless tonight. I went and looked. He played 21 minutes. It was the fewest minutes by a lot he's ever played in a playoff. He's played in 60 playoff games. I think the fewest he'd ever played was like 27 or so. That was in a blowout. Obviously, he was benched down the stretch for Miles McBride. McBride did hit five threes. Before we get to the big picture though, real quick, Vince, I want to talk about the last two plays of this game. Because, look, a lot leads up to it, but execution in the clutch really, really matters. On the play that the Hawks ran to take the lead, a very, very effective play set set up by Quinn Snyder. Let me just say, and this is not news, but obviously the Knicks can't have Brunson and Carltowns on the court because they are very susceptible to attack. And so that means that the biggest guy on the court, and it was partially because Atlanta doesn't play big, but Atlanta, the biggest guy on the court was Oji Ananobe. So they knew that CJ McCollum was going to get the ball. And I think they figured that Oneka Okongu was going to set the screen. That meant that they put Oji Ananobe on Okongu because they figured, you know, big, small screen set. And then Bridges is inserted into the game. He hadn't been playing, but he's inserted into the game. And they put him on Nikhil Alexander Walker because Nikhil Alexander Walker is the second best scorer out there, maybe arguably the best scorer out there at that point. And so Jalen Johnson is inbounding the ball. Josh Hart is on him. And Quinn Snyder sets up this play where he pushes Oji Ananobe and Mikhail Bridges, the two best defenders on the court. He pushes them all the way across. And that leaves Miles McBride, Deuce McBride and Landry Schammet to defend the action that ends up with CJ. McCollum getting the ball and in position to score. Now, Josh Hart scrambled over there. Like, they defended the play very, very well. CJ just made a great shot. But I just want to point out the play design that set up, that isolated the Knicks' good defenders, their $100 million, $200 million defenders, isolated them away from the actual action and got them exactly what they wanted, the guy with the ball, with the leverage. I think McBride was on him.

Speaker 3:
[22:24] He got CJ McCollum a practice shot. I mean, Deuce played decent coverage on it. But at the end of the day, CJ got exactly where he wanted. He got exactly the shot he wanted and he easily made it.

Speaker 2:
[22:33] On the other side, so now the Knicks have the ball. They wanted Brunson to get it. Everybody in the building knew Brunson was getting it. They put Dyson Daniels, great size, excellent defender on him. And Dyson Daniels got through two screens. OG. Onobisett tries out the first screen, he made contact. Dyson got around it. Then they had a second screen that Carl Towns set. He got around it. And so as a result, Brunson couldn't get the ball. He denies the inbounds and now we got a problem. Okay. So they inbound the ball to Josh Hart. Josh Hart scrambles and gets Brunson the ball. And Dyson Daniels finally does get screened and gets knocked over. Okay. So actually, they kind of had recovered. They finally got Dyson Daniels off. But instead of getting Dyson Daniels off and having Brunson with the ball, 12 seconds to work with, now he's got it with like three or four, maybe five seconds to work with. And Nneka Okongwu busts his backside. But now you've got the biggest guy on the court for, well, I guess Dyson Daniels might even be taller than Okongwu. But you've got one of the biggest guys on the court on Bryson, which is not what you want. You want the smallest guy out there on Bryson because Bryson has some trouble with length. Now, Bryson can score against anybody. But my point is, is that the Hawks play was perfectly executed. The Knicks play was a mess. And as a result, Bryson gets some bad shot. The ball gets knocked around.

Speaker 3:
[24:01] They didn't even get a shot off. He tried to throw a pass and it got turned over.

Speaker 2:
[24:04] Whatever it was.

Speaker 3:
[24:05] And that was that.

Speaker 6:
[24:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:06] So anyway, that's the X and O's, Vinny. And there's a lot that goes into that. But when you lose two one point games, how the X's and O's go at the end matter.

Speaker 6:
[24:17] Well, I think we've been fooled into believing that coaches just rolled a ball out there and let the guys just cook, so to speak. And all the games sort of looks homogenized and all that. And then you get to the playoffs and you find out who's really got stuff. Like, I miss being able to see Ty Lue cook in the playoffs. Ty Lue always used to have some counters, you know, when he had really good teams. Quinn Snyder is doing masterful work in second halves and in fourth quarters. Like, honestly, the Hawks were on the verge of giving this game up at least three or four times in the fourth quarter and then something would happen and they would just regroup. They would get a call to go to where the two challenges, once again, coaching, the two challenges went their way. One was on the Jonathan Kaminga contest of Josh Hart at the rim. The other one was O'Connor getting stripped by Josh Hart.

Speaker 3:
[25:13] Well, no, hold on. So, the Quinn Snyder went two challenges. One, as you said, Kaminga is playing defense on Josh Hart, makes a great play. Natalie Sego completely blows the call, gets it overturned. The other one, Deuce McBride goes up for a jumper, sticks his leg out. CJ. McCollum hits it.

Speaker 6:
[25:28] Oh yeah, that's the one. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[25:29] Natalie Sego calls it. It's a very obvious missed call. They both get overturned. Would have been four free throws for the Hawks or for the Knicks. They all get wiped off the board. Mike Brown makes one challenge, a horrible challenge, frankly, on Josh Hart had two hands on Nyekka Kongu's arm, like his very clear foul.

Speaker 2:
[25:47] It was a tough foul in the moment, but it was not a place to challenge.

Speaker 3:
[25:51] If anybody had watched-

Speaker 2:
[25:52] It was eight minutes left or something?

Speaker 3:
[25:53] No, it was just over three minutes.

Speaker 2:
[25:55] Oh, three minutes, right.

Speaker 3:
[25:56] They saw the actual steal, Josh Hart didn't touch it.

Speaker 6:
[26:00] The steal was clean. The play before that was the moment before that was the foul.

Speaker 3:
[26:04] That's right. The reason he made the steal was he grabbed both hands on Akangu's arm. So he started to lose the ball and then Josh took it. But that challenge was extraordinarily costly. Not just because the Knicks didn't have a challenge, but as you guys just laid out on that final possession, when Jalen Brunson gets to the corner and has nowhere to go with about five seconds left, it would have been great. They could have turned and called timeout, and they would have had a timeout to burn, and they could have run another play. But instead, because they only had the one timeout left, when they got the ball in, when they got the ball in and everything got disjointed, they had no ability to reset. And that, for the second game in a row, Mike Brown, frankly, screwed up the timeouts and left the Knicks with only one in the final 10 seconds of the game, and it played a part in them losing the game.

Speaker 6:
[26:50] Here's what I will point out. I'll point out two things, because one, our seats in Atlanta were right sort of very high, but right behind the Knicks' bench, and all of the assistants were yelling at Mike Brown to go challenge the play. They didn't see the play, like the assistants see the play. They didn't even wait for it on the jumbotron. Secondarily, on that last play, and I'm not sure if everybody caught it, I'm going to give Jonathan Kamenka a whole lot of credit for going in and chasing Jalen Brunson, knowing where he was going to go for that step back, driving right, messed up his line of sight, like left his man, like that's a play that doesn't wind up in anybody's score book or anything like that, doesn't go into Jonathan Kamenka, doesn't go into the highlight package. He had like 19 and four tonight or whatever it was, and those 19 points were impactful. But that play, like that's a winning play that we don't associate with a winning player. And I felt like that was coaching, that was a lot of game plan, discipline. Like Atlanta did the right things at the right time. Like they kept letting go of the rope and they kept grabbing it before the boat capsized.

Speaker 2:
[27:55] Well, speaking of Kamenka.

Speaker 6:
[27:55] And that's when you get a lot of credit.

Speaker 2:
[27:57] Yeah. I mean, we'll just do it just right now. Kamenka goes 9 of 14 and scores 21 points tonight. I know that McCollum made some big plays down the stretch. I know that Jalen Johnson had a couple of big baskets. But the truth was, the Hawks offensive best players didn't have a great night between Jalen Johnson, CJ McCollum and Nikhil Alexander Walker. I believe they're 20 of 50. That's usually not going to get it done.

Speaker 3:
[28:24] Listen, the Hawks will be down 0-3 in the series, if not for Jonathan Kaminga, which is a remarkable thing to say when you think about the season, then frankly the career to this point that Jonathan Kaminga has had. But in the second half of game two and in the second half of game three, he made a bunch of huge plays, made huge defensive plays. Dyson Daniels was the most approved player in the league last year and was an all defensive player. He might be an all defensive player again. He mentioned the defense he played on Jalen Brunson. He had very good moments on Jalen Brunson today, but he has questionable times on offense, particularly with the shooting. The last two games, Quinn Snyder has benched him for most of crunch time in favor of Jonathan Kaminga, and that has led to two wins. Again, like that, I'm sure Warriors people are banging their heads against the wall saying, this guy is doing a lot of the stuff we've been asking him to do for years, and he didn't want to do it here. But at the end of the day, he's made a bunch of winning plays and has been a massive part of these two victories for Atlanta.

Speaker 2:
[29:28] Well, and I'll just say the midseason trades, the Hawks front office has been doing some really good work over the last 18 months. The midseason trades with McCollum and Kaminga are looking great. Nikhil Alexander Walker, the offseason signing, and the trade that before last season, Dyson Daniels, like, you know, Travis Schlank, I think, drafted Jalen Johnson and Nneka HaKonglu. Those were, you know, big acquisitions, but these moves have helped. All right. On the Knicks side, Vince, going forward here. The reason the Knicks are in trouble in this, well, there's a couple of reasons they're in trouble, but, you know, they had game two under control in the garden. Like whatever you want to say tonight, sometimes you lose close games on the road. They played from behind for most of the game. Sometimes you lose close games on the road in the playoffs, regardless of what goes into that. They're in a much better position if they don't kick away game two. That's number one. All right, we now have Mikhail Bridges getting benched in the second half of this game. Also, Mitchell Robinson was completely ineffective. The last two games, he's minus 28. He has not been able to give the impact that they need him to give. And we've got, again, Carl Townes not being a part of the offense and the rotations being bizarre, with Townes and Brunson out of the game, again, for stretches. Carl Townes goes 7 of 12 in this game, has 17 rebounds, gets two block shots in the fourth quarter. Okay, is plus 22 in his 34 minutes, plus 22 in his 34 minutes, guys, and the Knicks lose this game. How can this be? How can this be? How can they not align this thing and get it going right? I mean, it's tough. But anyway, Bridges minus 26 in 21 minutes.

Speaker 3:
[31:23] Yeah, I don't think this is about Carl Townes shooting in this game. This is about the Knicks traded five first round picks from McHale Bridges and they were running their offense in the fourth quarter through Deuce McBride. Deuce McBride took eight shots in the fourth quarter of this game and he was basically the only guy really shooting the ball down the stretch, and a lot of times the Knicks were trying to get him the ball. Yes, he hit several threes in the game. But Vince wrote a great story today about Carl Townes and the ups and downs of Carl's season. I encourage everybody to go read it. But at the end of the day, this to me was much more about Kyle Bridges and some of the other stuff that went on than it was Carl Townes' ineffectiveness.

Speaker 6:
[32:03] It's fascinating to me. Watching Carl Townes play, it's like you look at the numbers and you're like 12 shots. How do you only manage to have 12 shot attempts when you are struggling to get, you know, stuff on offense? But he's not necessarily the guy. It doesn't seem like they run stuff for him. It seems like he catches it. And then if he's open, he'll shoot it or whatever. It doesn't seem like he gets a lot of, it seems like he gets a lot of accidental offense or he'll get it off the glass or he'll run the floor or whatever it is. It's not like he's a guy that you're running stuff for in this iteration of Mike Brown's offense. The fact also, Kailen Brunson is having a very difficult time getting clean looks and getting to where he wants to go to on the floor, in addition to being hunted on defense. CJ. McCombs didn't have a great offensive game, but when he made Kailen Brunson see the floor, that set this building off and they wound up getting a full point play, I think, because OG filed Nikhil Alexander Walker on a play. There are so many holes that need to be plugged here, and I still think the Knicks are probably going to win this series. But, this does not feel good. Even if you come out and win the next three games, right? Because you would think the odds will shift to their favor. They'll get one on the road or whatever it is. But even if they get out of this series, I don't think there's any way that you can feel really good given what you've seen so far. Like Brunson is getting swarmed right now, and it doesn't look like the Knicks have a counter. Like they couldn't even give him the ball cleanly on the last play, and you very rarely saw that last year. They always seem to get the ball in good positions where he can make a play. Now, if he made the play or not, that's on him, but it just seemed like their offense is so gummed up right now.

Speaker 3:
[33:58] The Hawks are a uniquely gifted team in terms of their ability to guard Jalen Brunson because you can basically throw Dyson Daniels and Nikhil Alexander Walker at him for 48 minutes. You got two long, excellent guys who can get around screens and give him trouble for the whole game. So they are a pretty uniquely suited team to take on the challenge of kind of slow Jalen down. But that being said, like I referenced your story earlier, you laid out in that story that this whole season, the Knicks have felt like a team that's been less than the sum of their parts and has not lived up to the numbers that you see on paper, right? And this series has been the embodiment of that. The Knicks controlled seven and a half of the first eight quarters of the series and it was tied. And they come into this game today and it was sort of the reverse. I mean, the Hawks probably should have been up by 10 or 15 late in the game. OGN and OBE had 2.5 second on the shot clock threes that went in and the Hawks kicked away several possessions that should have resulted in fast break dunks at the other way. And if it wasn't for that, this wouldn't even have been competitive down the stretch. Instead, the Knicks get in a chance where they can close out the game and the veteran experience team that's been in a lot of playoff games and has a guy who's one clutch player of the year and has been built to win in these situations. As you said off the top, Brian, their execution in the last minute was terrible. And the Knicks and the Hawks execution, when it mattered after a lot of foibles down the stretch, was really good. And that was the difference in the game. And I would tend to agree with you, Vince, I think the Knicks win the series, but I think we're going to find out either way in game four. I mean, if they come home down 3-1 and they lose this game on Saturday, you're now a New York City resident again. And you know what it's going to be like coming back here for game five?

Speaker 6:
[35:48] You know what this is? Tight cheeks if they come down three games to one. Mas will put some lemon, because it is, look, man, they better not fall down three games to one. I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 3:
[36:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[36:01] Well, they have, the problems that they have, the separation in this series is very, it's not like the Knicks are getting run off the court.

Speaker 6:
[36:11] No.

Speaker 2:
[36:11] It's that they have two tight losses and they're closing out game two, probably eight out of 10 times.

Speaker 3:
[36:18] The Knicks got thoroughly outplayed today. It should be two-one Knicks and it should have been holding serve at home the whole way. And as you correctly pointed out after the game Monday night, like you kick that game away at home when you dominated the game and you lose it, like that's how you potentially lose a series. And if Atlanta had done the same thing tonight, it would have been the reverse and it would have been evened out.

Speaker 2:
[36:40] And the way that you undo that is you take a game that you shouldn't have got on the road.

Speaker 3:
[36:44] That's right.

Speaker 2:
[36:44] Which I thought they were about to do.

Speaker 3:
[36:46] It certainly felt like it when they got the lead late in the fourth quarter, you thought, all right, the Hawks had their chance, they blew it, that their series is going to go the other way. And instead, they punch back, they win the game at the end and now the Knicks had got check time for them.

Speaker 2:
[37:00] This is, I would just say, this is my favorite part of the NBA is these playoff series that are mini dramas where there's this back and forth, there's this varying who's the hero, who's the goat, the pressure, all this stuff, these dramas that play out over two weeks.

Speaker 3:
[37:23] The two best games of a playoff series, when the better or favored team, however you want to phrase it, is down 2-1 or down 3-2 on the road in game four and game six. That's true gut check time because you're either lose the series in game six or you're down 3-1 and you're in a huge hole in game four. And that's where the Knicks sit now and we'll see how they respond to it. But this is, again, I keep referring to Vinny's story, talked about the James Dolan declaration of got to make the finals, should win them. Like there's immense pressure on Mike Brown, there's immense pressure on this Knicks roster to deliver. And now they're in a really tight spot and how will they respond? Maybe they'll come out and play great. Maybe they'll come out and look like they did for most of game three. But it's going to be a fascinating game on Saturday night.

Speaker 2:
[38:16] All right, Vince, we'll look forward to your coverage. Enjoy your weekend in Atlanta and get ready for some more drama.

Speaker 6:
[38:22] I mean, Brian, this is the blackest city in America. Why aren't you here to enjoy and partake?

Speaker 2:
[38:28] I would love to be in Atlanta.

Speaker 3:
[38:29] Maybe it will be for the conference finals the way this is going.

Speaker 2:
[38:32] I have to say, I've covered several playoff series in Atlanta and none of them had this much interest in them. Because while you do have some series that have great back and forth and great drama and two weeks of just great tension release, tension release, there's other playoff series that are over before they start. Unfortunately, those are some of the series I've covered in Atlanta, but not this one. So you should enjoy it. We'll talk to you soon. Yes, sir. All right. Thank you very much to Vince Goodwill. MacMahon is back. Earlier tonight in Toronto, the Raptors got a victory to pull to within 2-1 in that series against the Cavs. They put up a little 43 spot in the 4th quarter of this game. It was tight going into the 4th, and then Jameson Battle. That's right. Jameson Battle. I mean, Scotty Barnes had a brilliant game. We'll talk about some of the other stuff that happened. But the Cavs just elected, and I don't necessarily think that this is an incredibly poor judgment, but they elected to basically just not cover Jameson Battle, who's a backup big man in his second year, undrafted. And he dropped four straight three-pointers on the Cavs in the 4th quarter, and it was part of this enormous run, and the Raptors steamrolled them. Some other things happened in this game, Bontemps, including, you know, Scotty Barnes and RJ. Barrett. Both had brilliant games. Brandon Ingram was mildly better, but he was sort of pushed to the background because playmaking elsewhere. And the Cavs just turned, they were, I thought they played very smooth, high-execution basketball the first two games. Cavs were a mess offensively. They committed like 22, 23 turnovers. I think Harden and Mitchell had, I think, maybe one more basket than, I think, they had 12 field goals and 11 turnovers. But I'm going to tell you...

Speaker 3:
[40:37] 11 of Cleveland's 20 and James Harden had 8 of Cleveland's 20.

Speaker 2:
[40:40] And Harden threw in a couple of baskets in the fourth quarter and was already lopsided. It was below, the turnovers were outweighing the baskets at one point. So I don't know if this is something or nothing. Also, Scotty Barnes was rubbing his knee a little bit at the end of the game. But look, this is what happens sometimes. You sometimes see world players have big moments at home and the Raptors are now alive and kicking in this series.

Speaker 3:
[41:07] Yeah, I mean, 43 points in the fourth quarter for Toronto. Outscored the Cavs 43-23. Like you said, it was a two point game, started fourth. Jameson Battle comes in, starts banging threes all over the place, blows the game open. Crowd up in Toronto is going crazy.

Speaker 2:
[41:21] He was running pick and pop and they just weren't going with him. They were letting him just go open.

Speaker 3:
[41:26] I get it. It's the right play in that spot and he just knocked down the shots. It was a competitive game. Cavs had a chance to make it 3-0 and the Raptors stormed back. I'm going to disagree a little bit. Brandon Ingram was pretty much invisible again. He hit a late three to get to 12 points, but guy was the single digits for most of the game. But, RJ. Barrett had a great game, 33 points. Scotty Barnes was awesome, 33 points. Colin Murray Boyles comes off the bench, 11 for 15, and has 22 and 8.

Speaker 2:
[41:55] That's huge for them.

Speaker 3:
[41:56] 28 minutes.

Speaker 2:
[41:57] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[41:57] I mean, I understand why they're playing Yacapurto. He was marginally better today. He is a bigger body to throw on Jared Allen for a while, but I'd potentially just lean into playing with Colin Murray Boyles and just flying around with energy and just trying to generate turnovers and get out and run in transition, if I was Toronto, because they just have to generate as many easy buckets as they can. It certainly doesn't seem like we're going to see Emmanuel quickly in this series, but I would lean a lot closer to nothing than something. The way this is gone so far, Cleveland's one bad quarter away from potentially being up 3-0, and the first two games were not very competitive. I'm going to need to see the Raptors win another home game before I'm really going to believe this is competitive.

Speaker 2:
[42:46] You know what that reminds me of? I can't remember which, I can't remember if it was the conference final series. It must have been the conference final. Yeah, it was definitely the conference final series. Cavs go up 2-0. All right, this is Windy. This is Storytime, presented by SoFi, get your money right.

Speaker 5:
[43:08] More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 5:
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Speaker 2:
[44:57] All right, here we go. This is one of my favorite LeBron moments. Low-key favorite LeBron moments. Cavs go up, they have home court advantage like they do in this series. This would have been, I think, 2017.

Speaker 3:
[45:10] 2016 or 2017. We know the story.

Speaker 2:
[45:12] They go up 2-0. They go to Toronto, and Toronto comes back, wins games three and four. Similar situation with this, the Cavs look like they were in total control after games one and two. It was like, oh man, you know, this is going to be a short series. The Raptors punch back. And so, it's 2-2. And for a day and a half, it's like, man, could the Raptors do this? Could they?

Speaker 3:
[45:34] Could Lebracho finally be over?

Speaker 2:
[45:36] Yeah, this actually had to be 2016, because 2017, nobody believed it was 2016. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[45:41] I'm sorry about it.

Speaker 2:
[45:43] So, you know, it's like, oh man, maybe the Raptors have it, you know, like Kyle Lowry, you know, he's Demar de Rosen, you know. And the Cavs absolutely embarrassed and obliterate the Raptors for the next two games, completely blast them off the court in both games. And I remember after they won the, they won to do the East, get the East trophy or whatever, they like dumped water on everybody. They, the, the locker room was soaked and they were looking for chocolate milk to throw at Kevin Love, because Kevin Love was at the time doing a chocolate milk sponsorship.

Speaker 3:
[46:21] Yeah, a sponsorship. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[46:22] It was, it was crazy. So anyway, we get into the postgame press conference. And, you know, the question comes up from a Toronto media member, LeBron, you know, last time you were here, you know, after game four, the series was 2-2 and like it looked like it was really, really tight. You know, what happened in these last two games where you guys are able to re- take control. And LeBron gives out the best low-key trash talk I've maybe ever heard.

Speaker 3:
[46:49] I don't know how low-key it was.

Speaker 2:
[46:51] It was low-key. He goes, I'm going to get the, I got the exact quote here. I've been a part of some very adverse situations. And I just didn't believe that this was one of them.

Speaker 3:
[47:04] Like I said, I don't know how low-key it was. It was a pretty obvious blight, broadside at LeBronto.

Speaker 2:
[47:11] Man, that was, I don't know what was more breaking the spirit, that one or two years later when they swept them.

Speaker 3:
[47:19] Well, I mean, two years later led to a lot of changes. So probably that one, but. Yeah, I mean, let's see Toronto do it again. I mean, Jacoby Walters started and plays at Jamal Shed. He didn't hit a shot. Brandon Ingram, like I said, they won the game, but Brandon Ingram was again invisible. They're gonna need a lot more from him to win game four.

Speaker 2:
[47:45] Just in general, I felt the Cavs, the Cavs, the second half of the season, especially when I spoke in the Cleveland media, I really was highly skeptical of their defense. And then I thought Kenny Atkinson's game plan, really to take Ingram out of the game was very effective. And I thought the Cavs just effort level and focus level were so good defensively. The first two games really sort of set the tone about what their defensive potential is. And in this game, they were sloppy with the ball offensively and defensively. They were sloppy losing guys, not closing out to shooters.

Speaker 3:
[48:22] And that's the thing with this Toronto team. Toronto can't score well in the half court on a normal day. And without a mania quickly, they really can't. So again, giving them turnovers and letting them get out and run in transition, that is what really gets them going. And, you know, that's where I'm not sure. I don't think your concerns about the Cavs defense for these first couple of games are really all that.

Speaker 2:
[48:46] Well, no, I thought the Cavs defense was very good the first two games.

Speaker 3:
[48:50] No, but that's my point. They're playing a very offensively challenged team. So, I would just set aside the defensive challenges till they play potentially a more potent opponent later in the playoffs. But if they throw the ball around the gym and get Toronto easy shots.

Speaker 2:
[49:06] Right, McMahon, he's just giving the Cavs two more wins, McMahon.

Speaker 3:
[49:08] Well, I certainly thought the series. I thought the series had a chance to be a sweep going into today.

Speaker 2:
[49:15] What Bontemps is saying is I've seen some competitive series and this isn't one of them.

Speaker 3:
[49:21] I'm just going to say this. I think your concerns about the Cavs defense are very valid and I'm just going to Well, I'm just saying they looked better. Leave it as incomplete till they play a better offensive team. That's all.

Speaker 4:
[49:30] The Raptors were 14 of 23 from three point range in this game.

Speaker 2:
[49:37] What were they in the fourth quarter?

Speaker 3:
[49:39] I'm going to look up the fourth quarter numbers while you're talking.

Speaker 4:
[49:41] Scotty Barnes is three of five and he did a lot of other. He had 33 and 11. He was bully balling throughout the third quarter. He was great, but he was three of five from three. He's a 30% three point shooter this year. RJ Barrett was six of eight. He's a 34% three point shooter this year. Jameson Battle was four of four. The last time he hit a three pointer in a game was March 25th.

Speaker 3:
[50:03] You know what? I'm going to pause this for you, McMahon. Tell me what their numbers were for the whole game again.

Speaker 4:
[50:08] 14 of 23.

Speaker 3:
[50:10] Okay, so in the fourth quarter of this game, the Raptors were eight for nine from three point ranch. Eight for nine. So again, the rest of the game, they were six for 14, which is a fine percentage. Like obviously, it's well over 40%.

Speaker 2:
[50:27] The 14 is more surprising.

Speaker 3:
[50:29] Yes. I mean, this is an incredibly offensively challenged team, particularly without Emmanuel Quickly and with Brandon Ingram going to be invisible, which he has been invisible through three games in the series. So, you know, that again, to go back to the very beginning is a lot closer to nothing than something until further notice. And we'll see if the Raptors can, or if the Cavs can take care of business in game four, which they should.

Speaker 2:
[50:54] I will say this. Jamison Battle had one other super hot shooting game this year. It happened in October.

Speaker 3:
[51:03] Against the Cavs?

Speaker 2:
[51:04] When he went six of six from three against the Cavs.

Speaker 3:
[51:09] Just give Jamison Battle a shot at his possession.

Speaker 2:
[51:11] Well, maybe, like, send a guy over there when he comes off a screen, is all I'm saying.

Speaker 4:
[51:16] I have my Google Trends. I guarantee you Jamison Battle, like Google trending there in the floor. Who the hell is this guy?

Speaker 2:
[51:23] Well, I will say that I haven't seen the pick and roll numbers yet, but I do feel that anecdotally, the Raptors put James Harden a little bit more in actions tonight. Looking to attack a little bit more, putting Scotty Barnes on them. That said, that's a conventional game plan, and you can score on them five or six times in the half court. If you don't give them the turnovers, it probably doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:
[51:51] Yeah, 23 points for Toronto off turnovers in this game. Like that 23 to 8 in points off turnover advantage. Like that, if Toronto has any chance of making the series competitive, that's what they have to do. They have to turn their Cavs over, they have to get out and run and get easy buckets. Like I said, that's why they are going to be small and it's going to be a challenge, but I might just go to Murray Boyles and just go to like total chaos mode and try to just create as many turnovers as they can because that's their path to being competitive because that's how they're going to generate offense. They're not going to generate offense in the half court with no IQ and with, again, with Ingram, whether you want to say it's because the Cavs are selling out to stop him or him just not getting enough involvement in the offense either way.

Speaker 4:
[52:35] He's still in the torture chamber from his last playoff series. He hadn't just made it yet.

Speaker 3:
[52:40] I mean, the Cavs should not be keeping him from being able to get to this many shots up. Like, something's got to change there.

Speaker 2:
[52:46] All right. OK, so let's take a look forward here and let's just evaluate some injury situations. Um, Victor Wemba-Nyama did some very light work in Spurs practice on Thursday and then flew with the team to Portland. Now, what's relevant about that is you're not allowed to do those at really light work until you progress through the first stage of the protocol. So it indicates that he's making progress. Also, I saw he was part of the, you know, they celebrated Kelvin Johnson.

Speaker 4:
[53:19] I scanned that picture too. And you didn't have to look at big old cowboy hat sticking out above all the rest of the cowboy hats.

Speaker 2:
[53:24] Well, Kelvin Johnson, you know, is very much, you know, Kelvin Johnson, is he from Texas?

Speaker 4:
[53:31] No, I want to say Tennessee, but don't quote me on that.

Speaker 3:
[53:36] He's adopted Texas.

Speaker 2:
[53:37] Well, he's definitely adopted Texas.

Speaker 3:
[53:39] He's a country boy.

Speaker 4:
[53:40] He's a country boy who fits right in, has a ranch. Mike C. Wright, who's, you know, the C's for country, was out there visiting them on the ranch.

Speaker 2:
[53:48] Yeah, and they were both wearing, he did his feature and they were both wearing their boots, walking through the dirt, petting the goats and feeding the goats.

Speaker 4:
[53:56] By the way, he's got two llamas. How is one of those llamas not named Women Llama?

Speaker 2:
[54:01] Well, that's what Malika wanted to know.

Speaker 4:
[54:02] I know she stole my line.

Speaker 2:
[54:03] I've got text to prove it. I didn't know that. Anyway, he wears a cowboy hat a lot, like McMahon.

Speaker 3:
[54:07] There's a terrible line.

Speaker 2:
[54:09] And there was a photo that the Spurs did to honor his winning sixth man of the year, all wearing cowboy hats. And Victor was in that photo and smiling. And that was an indication on Wednesday that he wasn't bedridden.

Speaker 3:
[54:20] Well, by the way, he's questionable for game three.

Speaker 2:
[54:23] Right. So he's on the injury report. He's questionable. By the way, did you guys see the video when Kelden Johnson found out that he won sixth man of the year? It'll hit you in the fields. He's with his family. And he's really a great guy.

Speaker 4:
[54:38] Yeah. Hard and solid team.

Speaker 3:
[54:40] Ask anybody with the Spurs, I was going to say, ask anybody with the Spurs. They'll tell you he's the heart of their locker room and their team.

Speaker 2:
[54:46] Well, the 2021 Olympics, the team, you'll say, was running out of players because they had some guys come down with COVID. Some other guys got injured and they were trying to find players to take to Tokyo. Kelden Johnson was on the select team. I don't think it hurt that he was a Spur, Greg Malkovich was the coach. But I can remember when they were like, Kelden, you're going to make the, he did, he was playing well. They were like, you're going to make the Olympic team. He came, we were doing the interviews over Zoom and he came on and gave one of the most memorable interviews I've ever, certainly one of the most memorable Zoom interviews that were ever done. But anyway, when he was informed that, in the moment he found out, he broke down in absolute tears with his family all around him. It was an awesome moment and actually for somebody who has to vote for these awards and has to make judgment calls and everything like that, it was a good reminder of why you take care in doing that because the results, regardless of what people might try to imply, the results do matter. And Keldon was a guy who was a starter. And as the Spurs got better, they pushed him to the bench. I'm sure even though he got paid a contract that was starter money, I'm sure that it had to hit him in a certain way. Anyway, you should check it out. It's cool. Victor is questionable for that one. Okay, so then, another interesting thing on the injury report. The Lakers put out their injury report ahead of game three in Houston, and MacMahon, Austin Reeves is listed as questionable.

Speaker 4:
[56:30] Yeah, and he's been going through his return to play protocol. Obviously, we will see about game three, but certainly if he's questionable for game three, if not then, you would assume at least by game four, let's be honest, if he's upgraded to questionable, Victor is a little bit of a different thing because you don't really know how the concussion stuff is going to go.

Speaker 3:
[56:51] Austin Reeves is going to play Friday. I mean, barring some setback.

Speaker 4:
[56:56] Yeah, once they're upgraded to questionable and they've been ramping up, it's pretty rare to see a guy not be able to go, unless there's some sort of roadblock.

Speaker 3:
[57:05] Unless there's a setback.

Speaker 4:
[57:06] Right at the end, yep.

Speaker 2:
[57:08] I'll tell you one thing, and I know that this is, I may be getting a little ahead of myself here. You can't take Luke Kennard. How do you start?

Speaker 4:
[57:19] Marcus Smart's been great too.

Speaker 3:
[57:22] You could take Luke Kennard out of the starting lineup just fine.

Speaker 2:
[57:25] All right, well, Luke Kennard needs to continue to play that.

Speaker 3:
[57:27] Luke Kennard will play plenty, but Austin Reeves will have the ball and the Lakers will be better for it. And what's questionable is Houston's season. I mean, this has got a chance to be a catastrophic loss of a series for the Rockets, for where their season was going. And, you know, that was not the news they needed to hear, that Austin Reeves was coming back for game three.

Speaker 2:
[57:53] I will say this, Austin Reeves did not play well this year against Houston. I haven't studied the film to see why, but he only averaged 13 points and shot 40% against him. So, you know, you know, he's coming off this injury. He's been out, I think, three and a half weeks. So we'll see. But don't forget, Luke Kennard is my comment, because that energizing that guy has been huge for the Lakers. And Reeves obviously will probably get better as he gets some minutes under his belt. But, yeah, so that's the thing. You know, the thing about this whole, from the start was where could the Lakers extend the series long enough to get help? Extend the series. They're the favorites. And now Reeves is coming back and Luca is starting to do some stuff.

Speaker 4:
[58:44] So, yeah, Luca, I still think is probably more of a next round. By the way, that next round almost certainly would be Oklahoma City. And do you know the last superstar to send the Thunder home in the playoffs?

Speaker 2:
[58:57] I do, but speaking of the next round, is it going to be next round before we see Jalen Williams?

Speaker 4:
[59:04] Yes, highly likely.

Speaker 2:
[59:06] You covered this story, McMahon.

Speaker 4:
[59:08] Yeah, so, highly likely for a couple of reasons. One, he's out at least a week. He'll be re-evaluated in a week with this left hamstring strain. Fortunately, it's a grade one, which is about the best news you could have hoped. But I don't know that the series lasts another week. There's three games on the schedule, or two, and one if necessary in the next week. I don't think that the Suns are going to win two or three.

Speaker 3:
[59:36] The series goes past that, something pretty wild has happened.

Speaker 4:
[59:40] Yeah. Now, the Thunder are 39 and 10 without Jaylen Williams this year. Two of those 10 were Suns wins. One was completely irrelevant the last night of the regular season, but one was in Phoenix in a game that Shea played, and the Thunder had most of their guys minus Jaydub, and Devin Booker hit the game-winning shot. I actually covered that one. So, but again, I listen, we'll be a sweep.

Speaker 3:
[60:07] The Suns could win one of these games in Phoenix. They could get one of them without Jaylen Williams. I mean, they're a solid team, but they should not be winning two of the next three games. That would be quite something crazy to happen.

Speaker 2:
[60:19] Our friend Jeff Stotz at InStreetClose says that the average miss time for grade one strains is 12 days.

Speaker 4:
[60:27] So, and that's putting him probably out a game or two at that timeline, which is the average.

Speaker 2:
[60:33] Well, yeah, but I mean, the thing about it is that they already brought...

Speaker 4:
[60:36] They're not a game between next round.

Speaker 2:
[60:37] Right. I mean, look, they already brought this guy back from a hamstring injury and he re-injured the other hamstring.

Speaker 3:
[60:42] Re-aggravations are extremely concerning and this is a second re-aggravation, I believe, right? No, no, this is the other side. He did one of each. That's right. He did one of each.

Speaker 2:
[60:54] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[60:54] The other one, it was the right hamstring. He aggravated that one again after coming back, ironically, against the Suns when he was completely lighting them on fire in February just before the All-Star break.

Speaker 2:
[61:06] He was playing great here too. He was playing great on this series.

Speaker 4:
[61:09] He looked like all NBA Jaden Williams. He was, like Shay said after game one, he looks comfortable out there. He says, we're the best version of ourselves, and he's the best version of himself. We got to keep him there. Unfortunately, the first half, he had 19 points on seven of eight shooting. The burst was there, and he carried a couple fast break buckets, where he was like, whoo-wee. The wrist, he got through that. Ironically, the hamstrings helped him work through the wrist stuff. But he was shooting it well, he was attacking, he looked great in transition. He looked like the guy who was an all NBA player last year, and now this just throws another wrench into things for him. It's obviously been a really tough individual season for him, despite the Thunder's team success. He's only played 33 regular season games.

Speaker 2:
[62:04] All right. Well, tomorrow, Bontemps, you're heading down Philadelphia Way. I'm not sure you know how to get there. Do you need ways? Never go there. When you get down there, you'll be checking in on Joelle Embiid, who popped up on the injury report for the 76ers on Thursday, saying doubtful for game three, which he's not going to play in game three, but that's a progression.

Speaker 3:
[62:26] Why are we saying that?

Speaker 2:
[62:28] Oh, that's true.

Speaker 3:
[62:29] Why are we saying that?

Speaker 2:
[62:30] You're right. I yield to the Joelle Embiid injury whisperer. He just has given his five. Congratulations, Bontemps. Today was your 500th Joelle Embiid injury update.

Speaker 3:
[62:41] 500 might be low, unfortunately. I'm not sure if Joelle is going to play or not, but I would definitely not say he's not going to play. He was in summer practice on Thursday and he's doubtful. Now, doubtful for Joelle is not like doubtful for a lot of people. He very well might not play Friday, but I've seen doubtful to in a lot of times for Joelle over the years.

Speaker 2:
[63:05] Yes, they've been fine for it.

Speaker 3:
[63:07] Well, I mean, they've been fine for out to in. Doubtful to in is a little different. But when he stayed back in Philly and he started the strength and conditioning program on Monday, I had today circled to see if he did anything, and if he did anything today, I thought it opened the door to possibly come back for game three. He practiced some today, they upgrade him to doubtful. I think if you're again, measuring out the odds, I think it's probably more likely he would play Sunday in game four. I don't know how much he'll be able to play. I don't know what the role would be. I don't know what the situation will be. But we talked about the Hawks game earlier, the Hawks-Knicks series earlier, and the Celtics kicking away that game on Tuesday, gave the underdog team some life, and it opens the door for Embiid to come back and be a factor in the series. Now, do I think he's going to walk back in and play 35 minutes? Probably not. But if you can have him come in and play 12, 15 minutes, and you can match him up with Nick Vucevic or, you know, with Luka Garza or with certain minutes against Nimas Kata, and you can, you know, deploy him in certain spots and have his scoring ability be a weapon for you. I mean, remember, this is a sixer scene that, like, they can get off from three like they did in game two, but they don't necessarily have a ton of scoring options at times, and they certainly don't have a ton of size. And so being able to play Embiid some just gives them different pits they can throw, and a different wrinkle they can give the Celtics at both ends. And it certainly is going to ramp up the crowd. I mean, there's already going to be a crazy crowd on a Friday night in Philly with the Celtics in town, and the Sixers having some life. And if you get Embiid out there for any amount of time, it's only going to give them some more juice. So we'll see what comes on Friday. But I definitely wouldn't sit here and say there's no chance as of 1 o'clock in the morning on Friday.

Speaker 2:
[65:15] All right.

Speaker 3:
[65:16] We've seen Joao go from out to in at 5.45 for a 7 p.m. game. So doubtful. I'm going to say I'm not going to take it off the table.

Speaker 2:
[65:23] Should we address Tiago Splitter's squishy comments on Dame Lillard? What happened was the Blazers posted some footage of Dame shooting. And of course, Dame is knocking down 30-footers because that's what he does. You know, he's a year off the injury, the Achilles. It happened a year ago this week. By the way, terrible, terrible thing that happened to him to tear that Achilles. And then a lot of things have gone well for him. He got released, so he's getting all of his money. Then he got a new $40 million deal.

Speaker 4:
[65:58] And he got to leave Milwaukee.

Speaker 2:
[66:00] Got to go back to Portland where, you know, I don't think he ever really wanted to leave. And now the Blazers are like in the beginning of a Renaissance, and he's a part of it.

Speaker 4:
[66:09] Yeah, let's calm down on a Blazers Renaissance. I'm surprised that they're still paying the social media people.

Speaker 2:
[66:15] Well, this is their best season in five years. I mean, I think that you can say.

Speaker 4:
[66:19] And their owner is going to screw it all up. Congratulations.

Speaker 2:
[66:22] Listen, let me just say about this. Like, there are teams that I am sure that there are ways that you can cut spending on NBA teams. And if it may look petty, but I'm sure that it could be done. It's not that big of a deal. I don't really care what he does with the meal service. Whatever. Like, if he has blessed people on the road or whatever. The thing that he did that is a new owner problem, is that he's actively interviewing coaches while he's got a coach in the playoffs.

Speaker 4:
[66:56] And he's lowballing so badly that he's interviewing.

Speaker 2:
[66:58] Forget about that.

Speaker 4:
[66:59] You know what? No, because this is a problem.

Speaker 2:
[67:01] No, I'm going to stop you right there. No, you're not.

Speaker 4:
[67:03] If you're lowballing so badly, like mid-major coaches, like dude, we're making more than that.

Speaker 3:
[67:08] You're missing the point. The point is he's got a coach who should be the coach anyway. And he's now interviewing other coaches. Forget what he's offering them.

Speaker 2:
[67:19] Let's see who the new coach is and what the new coach signs for before we just assume. But forget about what he's offering.

Speaker 4:
[67:27] No, let's not give this legendary cheap ass any benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 3:
[67:33] Well, I'm not giving him benefit of the doubt either. I'm saying he's got a guy who's coaching his tail off. We understand that.

Speaker 4:
[67:39] And he's so cheap and he's so shady.

Speaker 2:
[67:45] Even if he was offering everybody $10 million, it's still out of line.

Speaker 4:
[67:51] Yeah, cheap and shady. The really bad combination. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[67:55] Yeah. Not that I'm not going to focus on the cheap right now. I'm going to focus on the other thing.

Speaker 3:
[67:59] But that's the one person in the country who's not focusing on the cheap. So cool.

Speaker 2:
[68:03] All right.

Speaker 3:
[68:03] We'll skip past that.

Speaker 2:
[68:05] I'm just saying he hasn't signed.

Speaker 3:
[68:06] You don't have to focus on the cheap. It's everywhere.

Speaker 2:
[68:08] It's there for all the world to see. I'm just saying he hasn't signed the coach yet.

Speaker 3:
[68:14] All the other stuff is very obviously cheap that he's doing.

Speaker 4:
[68:17] All right.

Speaker 2:
[68:18] It's been three weeks.

Speaker 3:
[68:19] Yes. And in three weeks, he's made a mockery of himself. It's impressive work.

Speaker 4:
[68:24] It's exciting. How low can you go?

Speaker 2:
[68:27] All right.

Speaker 3:
[68:29] The price is right. Can you guess?

Speaker 4:
[68:31] Price is very wrong here.

Speaker 2:
[68:33] Before we go, MacMahon last night, the game that you covered.

Speaker 3:
[68:36] We skipped past the Dame thing. We never even talked about it.

Speaker 2:
[68:38] I don't think he's going to play, but Tiago Splitter has left the door cracked.

Speaker 3:
[68:44] Tiago Splitter said probably not. And our buddy Bill Oram in a column today had a source. I'm trying to find the quote here. He had a source say, I wouldn't rule anything out. So they're at least leaving the door open for Dame to show up and play at some point in the series. I mean, it's worth at least mentioning.

Speaker 4:
[69:04] I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[69:04] I'm not saying he's going to play, but it's interesting to wait and see if he does.

Speaker 4:
[69:10] It would be a great little storybook tale, but in reality, I don't think a guy comes back off of a year absence and just picks up where he left off.

Speaker 3:
[69:22] I don't want to say Dame is coming back to disrupt things.

Speaker 4:
[69:24] But he's playing pretty well, by the way.

Speaker 2:
[69:31] All right. If anything more develops there, we'll bring it up. Just while we were talking about injuries, I thought-

Speaker 3:
[69:35] It's just worth mentioning.

Speaker 2:
[69:39] All right, MacMahon, at the game you were at last night in Oklahoma City, Devin Booker had some comments. I mean, again, it's a rite of passage to comment on the officiating. The visiting team interview room in Oklahoma City should be named the Referee Commentary Zone or something, because everybody who goes in there has got some- Yeah, I'm sorry. That was not good. You're better coming up with stuff.

Speaker 4:
[70:06] The Ref Rip Room?

Speaker 2:
[70:08] Yeah, exactly. Anyway, and he got fined 35 grand for it, which go ahead, you can break down what he said.

Speaker 4:
[70:16] Well, he got fined 35 grand, but he did get the technical that was one of the primary reasons he was so perturbed rescinded.

Speaker 2:
[70:24] Yes, that technical was ridiculous. Sorry to-

Speaker 4:
[70:26] That saved him two grand, right?

Speaker 2:
[70:27] 2,500, 2,500.

Speaker 4:
[70:29] All right. So really only got fined like 32,5 if you do the math. And look, he called James Williams out by name.

Speaker 3:
[70:38] And Gucci Mane only got 35 for that, frankly.

Speaker 4:
[70:41] Well, Gucci Mane is a friend of the pod. And so I say this with-

Speaker 2:
[70:46] His nickname is Gucci Mane because he looks like Gucci Mane. I just, you know, not everybody knows who. You guys all assume everybody knows every referee.

Speaker 4:
[70:53] You're right.

Speaker 3:
[70:53] I was just laughing at you saying Gucci Mane.

Speaker 4:
[70:56] So most people know Gucci Mane. He's a friend of the pod. However, what he did last night certainly enhanced the quick trigger little fella theory.

Speaker 2:
[71:10] Oh, here I thought there was going to be some sort of analysis.

Speaker 3:
[71:15] What did you think he was going to say?

Speaker 2:
[71:18] My bad. My fault.

Speaker 4:
[71:20] What did you think he was going to do? JP DeRosa called him this one on Booker. But the technical foul on Booker, clearly they didn't see it right. Caruso definitely came over and influenced.

Speaker 2:
[71:31] Well, that's what Booker said.

Speaker 3:
[71:33] The thing that made it weird was Ask Caruso coming over and say, give him a tea and then he got one.

Speaker 2:
[71:37] That's right.

Speaker 3:
[71:37] But that's what made it weird.

Speaker 4:
[71:39] Hey, there's Friday afternoon news dumps and there's Knicks playoff crunch time news dumps. That's what not only this fine and statement and then the rescinding of the technical foul was, but they also rescinded the tea between the Canadians, the double tea for the Canadians. When Lou Dort and Dylan Brooks got in each other's face, I think Dylan gave him a little love bump. And that was definitely a Gucci Mane, boop, boop, double T. That also got rescinded in a separate little tweet. All as the Knicks were down the stretch of a playoff loss. So nice work by the league office there. And the league office was very firm in sticking up for the integrity. They said no basis to any claim of bias or misconduct by game officials. So Devin Booker said that James was terrible tonight through and through. And this is what really got, and this is a $35,000 statement here.

Speaker 3:
[72:47] I'm honestly very surprised he didn't get a bigger fine for what you're about to say.

Speaker 2:
[72:50] Well also Matt Ishby came out on X and like echoed the statements, which I'm surprised Ishby didn't get fined.

Speaker 4:
[72:57] So here's what Booker said, it's bad for the sport, bad for the integrity of the sport. People are going to start viewing this as a WWE if they're not held responsible. It just feels disrespectful. I know I haven't won a championship in this league, but I've been in it for 11 years now. So to get to this point to be treated like that, for me to even be saying something out loud, it's bad.

Speaker 3:
[73:25] The WWE line is where I thought he was going to get a lot more than 35 grand. Integrity of the sport. Yes. The combination of those two things, anybody who's listened to this podcast is aware that WWE is a totally scripted deal. You go into the day and people doing the matches know everything that's going to happen, and they know who's going to win, they know who's going to lose. You combine that with saying that the integrity of the sport is in question, and those are the kind of things that usually get you a lot bigger fines. So to only get 35 and to have the tech rescinded, like you said, so it's not even really the full 35, I was personally a little surprised that that was all we got for uttering the magic words. Because people talk about the magic words being curse words. The integrity of the game being questioned are the real magic words that lead to trouble.

Speaker 2:
[74:14] The curse words get you technicals, the those other words.

Speaker 3:
[74:17] No, but I'm saying that's what gets you in trouble.

Speaker 4:
[74:19] Or some expletives.

Speaker 2:
[74:21] Well, look, here's the thing.

Speaker 4:
[74:23] You know who's handing out the fines though? James Jones.

Speaker 2:
[74:29] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[74:29] Who was a former Suns General Manager who was scapegoated, if we just want to be completely blunt about it, was scapegoated at the end of last season. By the way, I ran into James Jones last night in the Paycom Center media room, had a nice chat with him. He is now the Punisher in his role in the League Office, but it was in a pleasant mood, but certainly Devin Booker made his day a little bit busier. I'll just be real honest with you guys, I didn't actually attend Books press conference, because you know how it is when you're covering a series.

Speaker 2:
[75:08] Both press conferences happen at the same time.

Speaker 4:
[75:11] Yeah, so you're bouncing back and forth. And I went to Dagonalt Sun's Lock Room to get Dylan Brooks, who had some things to say as well.

Speaker 3:
[75:24] Had things to say.

Speaker 4:
[75:25] Back to Shay, and Shay and Booker were talking at the same time. And so I was obviously I had to write Jaylen Williams, I had to update that. And then I was just going to write like a Brooks SGA, the Canadian Friendship is on Pause, you know, fight scenes type of thing. And then I saw Book's comments. I'm like, well, this is going to be just the General Sun's Ripping the Ref story. But Dylan had, you know, as I put it in the story, kind of be a more common complaint. He's mad about the whistles that SGA is getting. But, and again, SGA, Booker actually took more free throws in SGA last night. It was 10 to 9. 9 is SGA's average. But Dylan said about SGA, a little frail. And that's what the refs are going to call. I got to be smarter about it, but this is the playoffs. It's a man's game. Like I used to watch this back when Michael Jordan was playing or whoever else when the Bron was younger. This is physical basketball. I don't get why all the dropping and the falling, the flopping and the flailing and all this stuff is allowed when we get to the playoffs. Leave that for the season, for the fans.

Speaker 3:
[76:32] Dylan Brooks doesn't do any of that.

Speaker 4:
[76:35] This is about who's the better team, who's the more with it team. Don't decide the games on no free throws.

Speaker 2:
[76:41] Ever since interviews have been done, in the middle of playoff series, the teams that are behind or losing, often use criticizing the officials as a way to change the narrative and theoretically get more calls. Sometimes they can argue that it works. Sometimes, they can argue, you could argue that it's a waste of time. However, let me just say that this is not going away with the Thunder because the Thunder have, as we have talked many times, created a strategy that causes this frustration from the opposing teams. And it's particularly frustrating for the teams because they can't beat them. Because they can't beat them.

Speaker 4:
[77:29] And their complaint is always the calls SGA gets and the calls that aren't whistled on the other end. I can just tell you this. SGA is completely unbothered by this. Like the free throw merch and stuff, okay, chain it while he's at the line. He doesn't care. He's going to hit 90% of his free throws and score 30 some odd points a game. And like he's immune to Dylan's antics. One, he does consider Dylan a friend.

Speaker 3:
[77:56] Of course, they won medals together.

Speaker 2:
[77:58] They won a bronze medal. Canada hadn't won anything in like 60 years.

Speaker 3:
[78:02] He knows that Dylan Brooks is running a game just like we do.

Speaker 4:
[78:05] Yeah, Dylan doesn't want to talk about how they're buddies. Not right now, but-

Speaker 3:
[78:10] Of course not.

Speaker 4:
[78:13] But there was also a funny moment in the first half. Dylan had blocked SGA's shot in transition. And SGA made a nice move and hit a shot over him. And was talking some talk while his back pedal was pointing and smiling and laughing at him. And he got a kick of that. He basically said he was screaming and hollering. He was just doing his usual antics. And then I scored on him and yeah, I let him hear it. So that's going to be a fun one to watch. Now, what I'll say is this, about the SGA and Dylan thing. Dylan excels at getting under the skin of stars and agitating and riling them up and irritating and all those kind of. And I don't think he's going to have any sort of success doing that against Shea because Shea is pretty much unflappable in that regard.

Speaker 3:
[79:03] Now, Shea also knows him very well and Shea's also got the dramatically better team. So there's no reason to get wound up. If he was on the Spurs and they were going seven, yeah, maybe he'd get a little wound up at some point. But I mean, let's be honest, barring more injuries, maybe several more injuries, this is a warm up series. So, but Shea knows that and they know that.

Speaker 4:
[79:26] Shea does, I'm not, free throws are a facet of Shea's game. He's also the best mid-range shooter. He's the best isolation player. There's a lot of other things that are the reason why he's about to win a second MVP. But he excels at the art of getting fouled, especially against physical aggressive defenders. And he is going to excel against Dylan Brooks in that regard. And Dylan Brooks did foul out last night, in part because of Shea's expertise in that area.

Speaker 2:
[79:57] And Chet Holmgren falls on the ground sometimes. And Lou Dort is playing football.

Speaker 3:
[80:03] The Thunder and Lou know the rules. But Lou Swap from the other end.

Speaker 4:
[80:09] And I've actually talked to the refs about this. And it's frustrating for them.

Speaker 2:
[80:12] Tall ones only, right?

Speaker 4:
[80:14] He only, I've even talked to some wee little fellows about this one. He only flops when there is an illegal screen. So the, but in basically like forcing them to call it. And so they're like, damn it, we got to blow the whistle. It's going to look bad because he's flopping, but he's right.

Speaker 3:
[80:32] Well, and look, that's the thing. Like the Thunder, like many other things about the Thunder, they know the rules inside and out at both ends of the court. And they exploit the rules. I don't say that in a negative connotation. They exploit the rules to their advantage at both ends of the court all the time. Like Shegel's Alexander does that and how he gets to the line. He knows the rules inside and out. He knows how to generate contact. He knows how to get to the line. Yet you can call that free throw merchant behavior if you want, but he knows how to draw fouls. He's the best player in the league at drawing fouls.

Speaker 4:
[81:09] And you know what?

Speaker 3:
[81:09] That's what he does.

Speaker 4:
[81:11] If the Rockets get their stuff together and win this series and they're facing the Thunder next series, I don't want to hear a damn word from a single Rockets fan because you were sticking up for James Harden when he was doing the same damn thing.

Speaker 3:
[81:23] And he had held it a lot of the same.

Speaker 4:
[81:25] Like, trust me, Shea probably learned some of these tricks from James Harden.

Speaker 3:
[81:30] And at the other end of the court, the Thunder have a ton of extremely athletic, active, excellent defensive players who play a very physical, active, aggressive style and they dare the opposite, they dare the refs to call as many fouls as they'll call. And they're only going to call so many. Like, we've talked about this for years. It's like the old Seattle Seahawks legion of boom defense. We're like, that was their stated goal was to basically commit passionate affairs on every play because they knew the umpires are only going to call so many of them. So you just sort of say, well, they're doing this every play. That just sets a new standard for what the level of aggression is. That's where the frustration comes from for opponents, but it's all rooted in the thunder, knowing where the rules are and playing to them. And it's one of many reasons why they've had the success they've had.

Speaker 4:
[82:24] Hey, do you think if it's Shea against Luca, who leads the league both in free throws attempted and griping at referees? Do you think if it's Shea versus Luca, there will be any focus on the guys who are officiating the games in that series?

Speaker 3:
[82:39] I think there will probably be a tiny bit.

Speaker 2:
[82:40] Oh my God, I hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 3:
[82:43] Lakers never get any calls.

Speaker 2:
[82:44] That's enough talk about officiating for tonight. It's approaching 2 a.m. Thank you so much to Jackson and the other producers for staying up through the night. Thank you to MacMahon and Bontemps. Thank you to Devin Goodwill who joined us earlier. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective as we go through the first week of the playoffs here and we're having fun even in the middle of the night. Sure are. We'll talk to you, well, I guess, next week.

Speaker 4:
[83:07] Adios amigos.

Speaker 7:
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