transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hey! Where there's smoke, there's fire. Where there's a grill, do you have a master? Or do you have masters? What?
Speaker 2:
[00:08] What? What's happening? Did we start shooting? I didn't hear, I didn't hear, action.
Speaker 3:
[00:18] Pull up a chair and get ready for a good time with Michael Symon, Carla Hall, and Clinton Kelly. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1:
[00:31] Nick, didn't you say go? I said go.
Speaker 2:
[00:33] Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:
[00:34] Y'all, I was the only one listening this time.
Speaker 2:
[00:38] This time, it's a first.
Speaker 1:
[00:40] Look, caveat, this time. Y'all, I am Carla Hall. I am here with you. These guys are catching up. It is Clinton Kelly. Yes, and Michael Symon.
Speaker 4:
[00:51] Hello everybody.
Speaker 1:
[00:53] I just want to give a shout out.
Speaker 4:
[00:54] Were you guys drinking in between shows?
Speaker 1:
[00:56] I was drinking caffeine, and so, yeah, dude, I have my tea. I had tea, but I have a black tea. You know, black tea. But, I'm just kidding. Michael, you're all about the smoke. You're all about grill magic. You have Cooking with Fire. Yeah, Playing with Fire. Yeah, Playing with Fire, Cooking Out. I mean, you had your show, like The Fire.
Speaker 4:
[01:21] Yeah, I love live fire cooking. Like all of our restaurants, you know, from the original Lola, you know, we always, live fire was always a very big proponent of what we did. And then we got into barbecue a little bit too, but like live fire has always been a big part of the flavor profile of the foods that I make.
Speaker 1:
[01:40] I will call you a master. I will call you a grill master.
Speaker 4:
[01:43] Okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1:
[01:44] Hey folks, we don't just have one master here. We don't have just one pit master. We got two! Introducer.
Speaker 4:
[01:51] Well, I would say like, what is happening? I don't know. Carla's out of her, Carla had caffeine. Yeah. No, but what I would say is like, I love to play with fire.
Speaker 1:
[02:02] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[02:02] And I love barbecue. But the guest that we are having on today is in my opinion, I mean, not just in my opinion, and most people's been truly one of the great pit masters to ever caress earth. I mean.
Speaker 1:
[02:15] That's huge, that's saying something.
Speaker 4:
[02:17] No, it is.
Speaker 1:
[02:17] That's a big deal coming from you.
Speaker 4:
[02:19] And it's not just coming from me.
Speaker 1:
[02:20] Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:
[02:21] This is something, and I got to read, because I got to get all the awards down. But like, it is, it's, the first time I watched her in the process of smoking a whole hog, it was actually hypnotic. Like, I was like hypnotized by the whole process and her commitment to it. So she's actually put out a new cookbook, it's going to be coming out soon, called Fanning the Flames, and I'm lucky enough to have written the foreword for it, which I was very honored to do. Now, and every word that was in there I fully meant, but listen, pit master, seven-time barbecue world champion, the first woman inducted into the barbecue hall of fame, and one of the most decorated competition cooks alive, and all this is more than true. Please welcome my friend, the wonderful Melissa Cookston.
Speaker 3:
[03:09] Melissa!
Speaker 2:
[03:11] Bring it in here.
Speaker 4:
[03:12] It's a lot of awards to remember.
Speaker 2:
[03:15] Welcome to Chewed UP. It's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 1:
[03:18] The badassery is real.
Speaker 4:
[03:19] She really is.
Speaker 1:
[03:21] Okay, first of all, let's tell the people what part of the country you're from.
Speaker 5:
[03:26] Mississippi.
Speaker 1:
[03:26] Okay!
Speaker 5:
[03:28] I do claim Memphis, because that's the style of barbecue that I like to eat and cook. Yes, correct. I'm from the Mississippi Delta, probably halfway between New Orleans and Memphis, so we pull those flavors from both those regions. So, I've got some flavor in town.
Speaker 1:
[03:45] Flavor in town!
Speaker 2:
[03:47] We want to learn from you, and I see a bowl of raw chicken wings.
Speaker 5:
[03:52] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[03:52] Who knows this one?
Speaker 2:
[03:54] I have a weakness for wings. It's going to get ugly up in here.
Speaker 1:
[03:58] You don't even know.
Speaker 5:
[03:59] Okay, but the new thing is dry wings. You just use seasoning blends to eat wings, so it's not so messy, especially if you're in a tux.
Speaker 4:
[04:08] Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[04:09] You know, I was going to wear a tux today, but I heard that there are wings.
Speaker 4:
[04:12] It's a clean wing.
Speaker 5:
[04:13] Traditional, saucy, right?
Speaker 2:
[04:15] Yes.
Speaker 5:
[04:16] Which do you prefer?
Speaker 2:
[04:18] I like it when it gets ugly, and it gets messy.
Speaker 1:
[04:21] He came out of the closet with wings.
Speaker 2:
[04:23] I did, actually. I did come out of the closet. I took a girl on a date, she had chicken wings, there was sauce all over her face, I was like, I'm gay now. That's honestly the truth.
Speaker 5:
[04:30] That's honestly the truth.
Speaker 4:
[04:32] It all happened just like that, the wings.
Speaker 5:
[04:34] I think that you're probably not eating good food if you don't have it up to your elbows, especially where I'm from.
Speaker 2:
[04:39] Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 5:
[04:41] You know, you gotta sop, you gotta dredge, you gotta eat the sauce.
Speaker 2:
[04:44] Eat a bath afterwards. Yes.
Speaker 5:
[04:46] And we are condiment people. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:
[04:49] Hey, mustard of choice, what's your mustard of choice?
Speaker 5:
[04:52] I'm a French's girl.
Speaker 1:
[04:54] Oh, excuse me.
Speaker 5:
[04:56] Yeah. What kind of mayonnaise?
Speaker 4:
[04:59] You better say Duke's, Carla.
Speaker 1:
[05:00] I know, I know you want me to have a helmet.
Speaker 2:
[05:03] Helmet? Okay, that's a helmet.
Speaker 4:
[05:04] Oh, really?
Speaker 2:
[05:05] I'm a helmet.
Speaker 4:
[05:05] You know what? I am not... I like helmets just fine, but I always... Duke's was always my mayonnaise of preference because my mother-in-law is from the south and she turned to sign to Duke's, but now I'm really into the Cupid.
Speaker 5:
[05:18] Oh, my daughter...
Speaker 2:
[05:19] The Cupid is good.
Speaker 5:
[05:21] My daughter puts it in everything. And for me, it's kind of like, you know, when the whole mayonnaise salad dressing thing is gone. And I'm like, that doesn't belong.
Speaker 1:
[05:32] It feels like Miracle Whip.
Speaker 4:
[05:33] No, well, see, and this is the thing, and Carla knows this about me. So my mom was a Hellman's person. My father was a Miracle Whip person. So I kind of always had both of them growing up. Like, on a turkey sandwich, I liked Miracle Whip. On a BLT, I liked mayonnaise, you know? So I feel Cupid kind of splits that gap for me in a very nice way.
Speaker 2:
[05:52] So, Melissa, is what you're saying is you don't like your daughter's cooking?
Speaker 5:
[05:55] No. Let me tell you.
Speaker 4:
[05:56] She's here!
Speaker 5:
[05:59] My daughter cooks for me at home. I don't have to cook.
Speaker 1:
[06:04] That's right.
Speaker 5:
[06:06] She and I went to the Italian Culinary Institute and took some wonderful classes together. But she's a better cook than I am, by far.
Speaker 4:
[06:15] I never asked you this. What's your favorite, like obviously barbecue love and live fire love, what's your favorite style of, like what's your favorite cuisine? Like is it an Italian or French or do you have love?
Speaker 2:
[06:24] That's a wonderful question, because you've mastered one particular cuisine.
Speaker 5:
[06:28] Yeah, but I don't eat that a lot.
Speaker 2:
[06:29] You don't?
Speaker 5:
[06:30] No.
Speaker 1:
[06:30] You can't. Because it's like work.
Speaker 5:
[06:31] It's kind of like if you're making pizza all day, the last thing you want to do is eat pizza.
Speaker 2:
[06:35] Right.
Speaker 5:
[06:36] Italian food is my favorite. I will tell you, I have never had a bad meal in Italy, ever.
Speaker 4:
[06:42] No, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 5:
[06:43] Ever.
Speaker 1:
[06:44] Right.
Speaker 5:
[06:44] But my favorite place right now is Mexico.
Speaker 1:
[06:47] Okay. What do you mean? West, East, Central?
Speaker 5:
[06:50] Honey, I'm into some mollets.
Speaker 1:
[06:51] Okay.
Speaker 5:
[06:52] Come on, come on, mollet it.
Speaker 1:
[06:55] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[06:56] So good.
Speaker 5:
[06:57] You know, but everywhere I travel, I like to bring something home and put my Southern spin on it. And that's what I've done with these wings. Okay.
Speaker 4:
[07:06] Well, let's do them. Let's get into them.
Speaker 1:
[07:08] Yeah, and tell us what you grab from where.
Speaker 5:
[07:10] What I grab from where?
Speaker 1:
[07:11] No, no. Like what's the influence?
Speaker 2:
[07:14] So this is like mole-inspired, Mexican-inspired.
Speaker 5:
[07:16] Are we doing inventory in the corner here?
Speaker 1:
[07:21] I mean, like where was the inspiration drawn from?
Speaker 4:
[07:24] Carla only has caffeine about once every six months, so anything can happen.
Speaker 1:
[07:27] I will start in the middle of the conversation, go to the beginning.
Speaker 5:
[07:30] Energizer Carla.
Speaker 4:
[07:31] Yes.
Speaker 5:
[07:32] Yes. This recipe is inspired from a trip to Mexico.
Speaker 1:
[07:36] Okay.
Speaker 4:
[07:37] Okay.
Speaker 5:
[07:38] Adobes, you know, is typically kind of like a... something you're going to marinate with.
Speaker 1:
[07:44] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[07:45] But I like dry marinades a lot. I like to make pastes a lot. So this is Mexican-inspired. I will say that we're going to start with garlic and onion because who doesn't love garlic and onion? If you don't, don't come to my house.
Speaker 4:
[08:01] I feel don't go to most people's houses.
Speaker 5:
[08:04] At two years old, I would let my daughter taste and I would say, what does it mean? She said, it needs more garlic. Not did she just do that one time. She did that every time. I don't care if it's key lime pie. I know. Now, this is the only ingredient that I brought from Europe. I thought paprika being a little Mississippi girl was something that you put on top of devil digs.
Speaker 1:
[08:30] Okay, you're all right.
Speaker 5:
[08:31] There's no flavor. You go to Hungry and you have real sweet smoked paprika. I gotta bring this back and that probably is what changed my barbecue. I mean, more than anything else, probably changed my barbecue.
Speaker 1:
[08:48] Because you know, in the south and where we're from in that part of the country, people are throwing in some liquid smoke and you're like, ooh. Right, but to have the real, like, the real smoke is beautiful.
Speaker 5:
[08:57] Honey, I can taste liquid smoke from four miles.
Speaker 1:
[08:59] What?
Speaker 5:
[09:00] From four miles.
Speaker 1:
[09:00] Four miles in two blocks?
Speaker 5:
[09:02] I'm telling you. I can't. I can't. I cannot do it.
Speaker 4:
[09:04] No, I mean, it is so off-putting. The minute I smell it, it gives me the willies. What is so true, though, with spices, when you find the source, so to speak, and you get it direct and it's so fresh. People go to the grocery store and they see a spice they buy and chances are that the thing was sitting there for a year. And then you get a great source for spices and it changes everything.
Speaker 1:
[09:27] Everything.
Speaker 4:
[09:28] Everything.
Speaker 2:
[09:29] All right, so real Hungarian paprika.
Speaker 5:
[09:32] Smoked sweet.
Speaker 2:
[09:33] Smoked sweet.
Speaker 1:
[09:35] Yeah, because you can also do a smoked hot.
Speaker 4:
[09:36] Oh God, smell it. It's like, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[09:40] Ooh, oh wow.
Speaker 2:
[09:41] That doesn't give you a little tingle somewhere.
Speaker 1:
[09:45] I know, that's tingle seasoning.
Speaker 2:
[09:46] Right? It really is. Something happened.
Speaker 5:
[09:48] You can use dried or fresh Mexican oregano.
Speaker 1:
[09:52] I love Mexican oregano.
Speaker 5:
[09:54] Ancho chili powder.
Speaker 1:
[09:55] Ancho chili powder, nice. Okay, yep.
Speaker 5:
[09:57] Different kind of smell.
Speaker 2:
[09:58] Yep, different kind of smell.
Speaker 4:
[09:59] It's got that little smokiness to it, naturally.
Speaker 5:
[10:01] Oh yeah. And then cumin, which, you know, I like to toast mine just because it opens it up so much. But you don't have to. Here's the thing about cooking.
Speaker 2:
[10:10] You're only the barbecue expert.
Speaker 5:
[10:11] No, here's the thing about cooking. Do what you want to. Do what you want to. Doesn't matter if you don't like something, replace it with something else or just leave it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[10:21] I agree. People overthink food. They just overthink it. Cook things you love.
Speaker 5:
[10:26] Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:
[10:27] And it's trial and error, right? If you don't like it the first time, change it the second or the third.
Speaker 5:
[10:31] Make it yours. Make it personal to you. What you're like. You know, I can't measure. I've never measured it. Writing a cookbook for me is like the worst thing because they're like, well, how much? And I'm like, just put enough in there until your ancestors whisper, honey, that's enough.
Speaker 2:
[10:49] I think there's something too, listening to the collective unconscious. Like, if you-
Speaker 4:
[10:52] Did you have someone follow you around, though? Like, did-
Speaker 2:
[10:55] They'd bust her.
Speaker 4:
[10:56] Did you have like a, like, you'd be like-
Speaker 5:
[10:58] Honey, my daughter, bless her heart. My daughter, she graduated college during COVID. We had no staff. I said, sweetheart, I'm sorry. I know you had big aspirations to go work somewhere else. And you see, all these years later, she's still here with me. Bless her heart. But she was in charge of going, okay, how much was that? And I'm like, I don't know. Let's measure now.
Speaker 1:
[11:21] Oh, yeah.
Speaker 5:
[11:22] But I can't do it. I don't know why.
Speaker 1:
[11:29] Hey, real quick!
Speaker 4:
[11:30] We'll make this fast, we promise!
Speaker 1:
[11:31] If you're watching us on YouTube, hit that like button right now! Don't wait!
Speaker 3:
[11:36] And subscribe!
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Speaker 1:
[11:46] We are The Chewed UP Show, part of all Chewed UP channels!
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[11:49] And we are everywhere, so if you found us, subscribe!
Speaker 4:
[11:54] There's no excuse.
Speaker 1:
[11:57] Do it.
Speaker 5:
[11:59] Now, I like using whole wings. You can use flats and drummies if you want to. I just, I prefer cooking whole wings because they don't fall through the grates.
Speaker 3:
[12:09] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[12:11] That's a very practical reason.
Speaker 2:
[12:13] Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 5:
[12:15] But flats and drummies are much more popular and easy to find in any grocery store. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna add oil to these wings just to give them, you know, they're a little drier because we dried them off when we got them out of the package. And then, you know, you can make, you know, I'm gonna mix it. I know.
Speaker 4:
[12:34] I'll give you a little...
Speaker 2:
[12:35] I have a feeling Melissa doesn't whisk all that much. You don't measure, you don't whisk all that much.
Speaker 5:
[12:38] Let me tell you what I do. See these hands? This is the perfect whisk.
Speaker 1:
[12:42] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[12:44] Perfect whisk.
Speaker 4:
[12:45] I concur.
Speaker 5:
[12:45] Perfect spoon, the thermometer.
Speaker 1:
[12:49] And that rig is perfect for punching somebody.
Speaker 5:
[12:50] I was gonna say.
Speaker 1:
[12:51] I'm like, pow, pow!
Speaker 5:
[12:53] Uh, the guy at the hotel last night, he said, Barbecue Hall of Fame? I'm like, I know you didn't know there was one.
Speaker 4:
[13:01] Oh, is that what that is? That's the Barbecue Hall of Fame rig. I love that.
Speaker 5:
[13:04] I'm like, I have one for every finger, but I thought that was a little ostentatious for New York.
Speaker 2:
[13:10] For New York.
Speaker 1:
[13:10] Honestly, I wish you would come up here like that, like Mr. T. This is what's up.
Speaker 4:
[13:16] Talk to the hand.
Speaker 5:
[13:16] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[13:17] If you ride the subway, you might want all.
Speaker 5:
[13:19] So basically, all you want to do is just make sure that these wings have got a good coat of all this good seasoning. And you can make a paste if you want to, just add the oil to the seasoning, but it's easier just to do it like this, right?
Speaker 4:
[13:35] Now, is this a rub, like, if people weren't doing wings, it would still be great on like a half-roasted chicken or, you know, you could use this style rub and all kinds of pork chops, it would be great, you know.
Speaker 5:
[13:45] Anything that you want to give that little flair of, hey, I just came back from Mexico City.
Speaker 4:
[13:51] Right.
Speaker 1:
[13:52] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[13:53] But, you know, I love it with chicken.
Speaker 1:
[13:55] Okay, yeah.
Speaker 5:
[13:55] But, you know, really any seasoning, it is so versatile, especially like barbecue rub. You can put barbecue rub on dang near anything, anything, and it'll be good.
Speaker 2:
[14:07] Yeah. Is there anything you haven't barbecued yet? I'm sure in your experience, you've probably done all, you know, the chicken and your pork and the beef.
Speaker 5:
[14:14] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[14:14] Have you done like the gamey meats and stuff?
Speaker 5:
[14:17] Yes. Usually because I'm on some competition and they say, you've got to cook this rattlesnake. Right.
Speaker 2:
[14:23] So that's not your jam.
Speaker 5:
[14:25] And so then I asked my daughter, what did it taste like? And she said, tastes like barbecue. Yeah. I'm like, that's good.
Speaker 4:
[14:32] That's a good sign.
Speaker 5:
[14:34] That's what I was going for.
Speaker 4:
[14:35] Exactly.
Speaker 5:
[14:36] We're good.
Speaker 4:
[14:36] We can move forward from there.
Speaker 5:
[14:37] Right. So we're just going to put these wings on a baking dish since we don't have a smoker here, which is fine. You can bake, you can smoke.
Speaker 2:
[14:48] I sense a little disappointment in your voice.
Speaker 5:
[14:50] Well, what I'm saying is if you don't have a grill or a smoker, it's okay. It's like we were talking about earlier. Just use what you got.
Speaker 4:
[14:58] Yeah, they're still going to be delicious. Now, if you were to smoke these, roughly what temp would you want to smoke them at and for about how long?
Speaker 5:
[15:07] You know, I am a 275 girl.
Speaker 4:
[15:09] Across the board.
Speaker 5:
[15:11] Most of my grills love that temperature. It's not because I prefer it. It's because they prefer it because grills have their... Well, what did they say?
Speaker 1:
[15:17] I mean, what did they say? I mean, like why? Sorry.
Speaker 5:
[15:19] They say, I'm going to cook at this temperature regardless of what you do.
Speaker 1:
[15:23] Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:
[15:25] You know, I cook with a lot of wood.
Speaker 1:
[15:27] Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:
[15:27] A lot of wood. I've tried using charcoal as a base because you get such an even heat with charcoal and just adding the wood for flavor because that's really all you're doing is wanting that smoky flavor. You don't want to over smoke. You know, treat smoke just like you would salt. You don't want to over salt, so don't over smoke. That's right. So 275 degrees, about an hour and 45 minutes. Now, I will say this. Yes, chicken is done at 165, but you know how you love to pop that little wing out and all you have is that clean bone? You're not going to get that at 165 degrees internal temperature. You're going to want to go to about 185, and that will take about an hour and 45 minutes. But there's really no recipe for barbecue or cooking on a smoker or grill. It's just like cooking in a regular oven versus convection. If you're cooking at higher temps, you want to take it to a higher internal temp. But it all depends on what your apparatus wants to do, how it cooks, as to the recipe. So I tell people, you know, I can't give you a recipe for ribs. I can show you what it feels like when they're done.
Speaker 1:
[16:30] See, I think that kind of cooking and cooking... Let's put these in. And cooking with your senses... Cooking with your senses, because you have to be in touch with the food. You have to, like, look at it. You have to see how it feels, how it looks. You know, you have... So everything that you do with smoke, you probably do even beforehand, like when you're putting together a recipe, because it's all feel, you know, intuition.
Speaker 5:
[17:00] Right, exactly.
Speaker 4:
[17:01] A long time ago, Mike Mills, who has since passed, but was like someone who I really adored, who adored the barbecue community.
Speaker 5:
[17:08] His daughter and I are such good friends.
Speaker 4:
[17:10] I love them. He's the best, you know, and he was the first time I was ever doing a hog with him. I said, Mike, what temp do you cook it to? And he goes, till it's done. I go, but what temp? Like, is there a temp? Like, and he's like, and there were like four of them going, and he's like, hits one. He goes, this one's done. So yeah, that temp, this one's not done. You know, like, but it was such a feel and function for him, and it wasn't like, so it was, he goes, every, and I think this is how people gotta think about food sometimes. I go, every hog's a little different. Every animal's a little different. It's, food isn't like a, you know, a Rubik's Cube. It's like everything's just, it's not always exactly the same. So, so much of it comes from feel and going through the process and all those things, which, you know, that's kind of, I think that's what makes what you do and what people who are really great at barbecue so special, because it's not always just like, yeah, you cook it to 195, it comes off at 195 and then you're good. Like sometimes it's like the thermometer might say 195, but you know, it's not quite ready yet or whatever. It's a feel.
Speaker 2:
[18:10] That comes with experience. But Melissa, I'm going to ask you the most important question that you might have ever been asked. Air fryers, yes or no?
Speaker 5:
[18:17] No.
Speaker 4:
[18:20] I knew I had loved her. This is why I've loved her, you know?
Speaker 2:
[18:23] It's just an ongoing debate.
Speaker 4:
[18:24] It's an ongoing debate.
Speaker 2:
[18:25] Carla's pro air fryer, Michael's anti, I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1:
[18:28] What about an air smoker?
Speaker 5:
[18:34] I do have a fan. I call it the barbecue hair dryer that we blow hot air on. But it's hand cranked. That's about as close as I'm going to get to an air fryer.
Speaker 4:
[18:48] I hate those.
Speaker 2:
[18:49] I'm fascinated by this thing. You're blowing air onto the food while it's cooking.
Speaker 1:
[18:54] See, yours is manual, I have an electric one. It's called the air fryer smoker. Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[19:00] But I still have wood for heat.
Speaker 4:
[19:03] What's your wood of choice?
Speaker 5:
[19:04] It depends on what I'm cooking.
Speaker 4:
[19:05] Depends on what you're cooking. Like chicken, for those people at home that maybe wanted to smoke, what wood would you recommend for chicken?
Speaker 5:
[19:15] White meats, delicate meats, pork, chicken, fish for the most part. I use lighter woods. Red meats will accept a little harsher woods. But for this, I would use maybe apple and cherry.
Speaker 4:
[19:29] Yeah, like fruit woods.
Speaker 5:
[19:30] Pecan, maybe. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 2:
[19:32] So is there a sauce that goes on this? Just checking. You said it was dry, so I didn't know if you're a server dryer.
Speaker 5:
[19:38] No, you said you liked them wet.
Speaker 2:
[19:39] I do like them wet.
Speaker 5:
[19:40] You're to my immediate right. I'm right-handed.
Speaker 2:
[19:44] I will eat whatever you give me. I just want you to know that.
Speaker 5:
[19:47] So these we took out of the oven at what?
Speaker 2:
[19:51] 185 degrees.
Speaker 5:
[19:53] I'm listening.
Speaker 4:
[19:54] He's very good at paying. He's the best student of all time.
Speaker 5:
[19:56] He is the best student for real. All right, so we're just going to put them in this bowl. Now, this is my very own hot wing sauce.
Speaker 1:
[20:06] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[20:08] How hot is it?
Speaker 5:
[20:09] Not.
Speaker 2:
[20:09] Oh, good.
Speaker 5:
[20:09] Because...
Speaker 2:
[20:11] I don't want to embarrass myself in front of you.
Speaker 5:
[20:12] Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:
[20:13] I'm a baby.
Speaker 5:
[20:14] You are?
Speaker 2:
[20:15] Well, when it comes to... I don't like my tongue to hurt. But I like... It's very delicate. I use it for things that are important. And so...
Speaker 4:
[20:23] May the stock...
Speaker 2:
[20:24] When things that are very spicy and it hurts, I don't like to hurt my instrument. Melissa's like, who is this baby?
Speaker 5:
[20:31] As we say...
Speaker 4:
[20:32] You keep your instrument right where it is, Clinton.
Speaker 5:
[20:34] As we say in the restaurant business, hard.
Speaker 1:
[20:38] Okay.
Speaker 4:
[20:39] You know, with the last time you ate chicken wings and you thought about your instrument, all kinds of crazy things.
Speaker 2:
[20:44] I know, it's true, it's true. Melissa, I'm a little intimidated by you.
Speaker 1:
[20:48] In the best possible way.
Speaker 2:
[20:49] Like, you're lovely, but like, you really, really know your shit. It's great.
Speaker 5:
[20:55] I'm not sure if I know my shit. But I, I can be intimidating.
Speaker 1:
[21:01] I love that you all know.
Speaker 2:
[21:02] I feel like you're intense. It's good. I'm sorry. No, I don't mean it as an insult. I mean, it's the highest compliment. You know how many people I've met? Nobody intimidates me except you.
Speaker 5:
[21:11] Strong southern women. Yeah. We'll get it done. We will get it done.
Speaker 4:
[21:19] I am so happy you're in the middle right now.
Speaker 2:
[21:21] I know, right? I'm telling myself, shut up. Stop talking.
Speaker 5:
[21:25] Well, I was thinking of saying that, but...
Speaker 4:
[21:34] The boards and plates we're using, those are all from Frontgate, including some from my very own collection.
Speaker 1:
[21:38] They've got everything from outdoor furniture to decor to entertaining essentials, all made with quality, comfort, and style in mind.
Speaker 2:
[21:46] And since most of it is designed in-house, you can't find their pieces anywhere else.
Speaker 4:
[21:51] Frontgate, thanks for making our spread look so good.
Speaker 2:
[21:54] For more information, go to frontgate.com.
Speaker 5:
[21:59] So, yeah, we're just, yeah, we're just gonna do this. Are these clean?
Speaker 4:
[22:04] They're clean, yes.
Speaker 5:
[22:05] Okay, perfect. All right, so how saucy?
Speaker 2:
[22:07] You like it? I'm gonna take whatever you give me, and I'm gonna love it.
Speaker 1:
[22:10] We have a good guy over there for the instrument.
Speaker 2:
[22:13] I love how fostered you are right now. I know, it's so weird. I can't, I don't know what's happening. I never get like this.
Speaker 5:
[22:18] You like drummies or flats better?
Speaker 2:
[22:19] I like whatever you're gonna give me. I'm gonna go, equally. What do you want me to have? Just tell me what to do.
Speaker 5:
[22:24] Don't make me be mean.
Speaker 1:
[22:26] Don't make me be mean.
Speaker 2:
[22:29] I thought you were beating me. Yours, now that was just me.
Speaker 4:
[22:34] Now she's just teasing you.
Speaker 1:
[22:37] Oh, Lord. Isn't it great?
Speaker 5:
[22:39] What are we doing?
Speaker 1:
[22:40] I like flats.
Speaker 4:
[22:41] What are we doing? Watching you eat that way reinforces how much I love women.
Speaker 1:
[22:45] Let's put some here.
Speaker 5:
[22:47] Put some here, she says. I can do that.
Speaker 4:
[22:50] Oh, God.
Speaker 1:
[22:52] Then that's you and Michael.
Speaker 5:
[22:53] Now, we'll tell you that there's also a recipe in the book for a beautiful ranch dressing. If you're a ranch dressing person, I prefer blue cheese. But everybody else in the world loves ranch.
Speaker 4:
[23:09] I prefer blue cheese.
Speaker 5:
[23:10] So this is a buttermilk ranch dressing.
Speaker 2:
[23:11] How many ranches are there?
Speaker 5:
[23:13] Yeah, yeah. It's got a little bit of tarragon in there, so you're going to get a little herbiness.
Speaker 2:
[23:18] Oh, my favorite herb.
Speaker 4:
[23:19] The sauce is great.
Speaker 5:
[23:20] It's your favorite herb.
Speaker 2:
[23:21] Yes, tarragon. So you know me so well.
Speaker 5:
[23:23] Yeah, I do. I didn't, but I do now. I feel like I know you a little too well. That's okay. It's okay.
Speaker 1:
[23:29] It's okay.
Speaker 2:
[23:31] So we're going to be best friends.
Speaker 5:
[23:32] We are already. Already.
Speaker 1:
[23:34] The dill, the tarragon is everything. Okay.
Speaker 4:
[23:37] Clinton's one of my wife's best. My wife adores him. Liz, you've met Liz before. Liz loves her, loves him.
Speaker 5:
[23:44] One thing that southern women are good at too is getting, you know.
Speaker 2:
[23:48] The gays?
Speaker 5:
[23:51] Well, typically, they are our best friends. Yes, but we're really good at teasing, but we mean it in the best possible way.
Speaker 1:
[24:02] I know, because if you don't like somebody, you're not going to tease them.
Speaker 4:
[24:04] My mother-in-law was from Dalton, Georgia.
Speaker 5:
[24:05] Oh, yes.
Speaker 4:
[24:06] So she could give you the business.
Speaker 5:
[24:08] Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:
[24:10] Let's talk about great barbecue and sauce, because I think, do you think great barbecue needs sauce? Sauce to sauce or not to sauce? That's the question.
Speaker 5:
[24:20] You know, I think whatever you like is the way it should be for you. Me personally, you know, in Memphis-style barbecue, we cook low and slow. We cook at a high enough internal temperature that we cleanly pull. There's no chopping. There's no pigtails, toenails, snouts, any of that in there. It's all clean-pulled, fresh meat. For me, I don't put sauce on it. I like, you know, to add a little bit as I go, but I don't like overly-sauced barbecue. I feel like somebody's hiding something.
Speaker 4:
[24:56] I always felt that way too. I feel it hides all the hard work.
Speaker 5:
[24:59] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[25:00] It hides all the hard work that went into it. Could you tell us a little bit about Fanning the Flames? A little bit about the book and why you wanted to do it?
Speaker 5:
[25:07] Fanning the Flames is my love letter to my travels. And the different cultures that I found, so many friends that I made, that introduced me to something in their cooking. Because we all have some history of cooking with fire, no matter if we're from Greece or where. It's my love letter to all those people that say, hey, I really appreciate you introducing me to this cashew apple so that I could bring it home and make a barbecue sauce out of it.
Speaker 4:
[25:36] I love that.
Speaker 5:
[25:38] And, you know, it's been so much fun. You know, cooking is something that I've been doing all my life, you know, to feed the family. I mean, we were, before the farm to table was cool, that's what we were doing.
Speaker 4:
[25:49] Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5:
[25:51] So, you know, now bringing some things from other places in the world to my southern roots and what we do is so much fun. It is so much fun.
Speaker 4:
[26:05] I love that because I feel like I love that, too, it kind of expands everything that you've done and lets people know. Like, I feel you've meant so much to so many people in barbecue.
Speaker 5:
[26:16] Oh.
Speaker 4:
[26:16] But you, but your love of food and your knowledge of food goes much further than barbecue. So the people get to see that and now they get to read it and experience. I think it's a really special thing.
Speaker 5:
[26:26] I think that you need to be, you have to have diversity.
Speaker 4:
[26:30] Right.
Speaker 5:
[26:30] And you have to have an open mind. I'm not a purist.
Speaker 1:
[26:33] Right.
Speaker 5:
[26:34] I don't think there's one great way to achieve barbecue. I think there are a million ways. And I think be open minded when it comes to different spices. You know, I just got back from the Middle East and I brought home, every time I go to the Middle East, I have to bring home the dried lemons.
Speaker 1:
[26:47] Right. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 5:
[26:49] And do something and barbecue with it. Because I can't really get them in, you know, and there's mangoes in Guatemala that I absolutely love, but the shelf life on them is so short, I can't get them, so I have to go down there and cook. But, you know, just try it, you might like it, and if you don't, it's okay.
Speaker 1:
[27:07] It's okay. Right, right.
Speaker 5:
[27:08] But you tried it. You tried it.
Speaker 1:
[27:09] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[27:10] I really want to thank you for writing the foreword of my book.
Speaker 4:
[27:13] Oh, God, no. It was really my honor. It really, truly was.
Speaker 5:
[27:18] One thing you need to know about Southern women as well is we're not criers. So my eyes leaked a little bit when I read that foreword. Because when you love to do something and somebody that you really, really respect says nice things about your cooking... Yeah, they see you. I mean, you know, they understand, they get it. I don't know, it's pretty special.
Speaker 4:
[27:40] Well, no, you know, like you and a lot of the people that really, I think, have made barbecue, what is this in America?
Speaker 5:
[27:47] Yeah, but mostly me.
Speaker 4:
[27:47] Mostly, yeah. But like, for me, like, I never, like I said, I always cook with live fire. We did a barbecue restaurant, but I'm not like, I'm not like a legend. Like, but your community and especially like you and people, you know, they, you guys let me in. And I thought that was a very special thing. Like they, you, everyone understood how much I respected what you guys did and you respected what I did. And the barbecue community is such a cool community. And it's a community that looks out for each other very much. Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[28:19] Some of us look out for some of us.
Speaker 4:
[28:20] Oh yeah, right. I know. But the good ones, like I said.
Speaker 5:
[28:23] Some of us will throw the fire on them. Right, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[28:25] But the good ones look out for the good. Like the good people look out for the good people. It's a special community and you guys really let me in it. When I had the opportunity to write the forward for your book, I was really flattered and really honored and I loved doing it. I really did.
Speaker 5:
[28:39] Well, I'll tell you, when you're sitting out in the middle of a parking lot and somebody comes up and says, hey, I'm interested, what are you doing? And it's like, you're like, oh my gosh, that's Michael Symon.
Speaker 1:
[28:49] Right, right.
Speaker 5:
[28:50] That's Carla Hall.
Speaker 2:
[28:52] I'm Clinton Kelly.
Speaker 5:
[28:58] For fashion sense, I need a lot of help with that.
Speaker 1:
[29:00] Melissa, at this point, I want to play a little game. We call it Chew It or Screw It.
Speaker 5:
[29:04] Okay, got it.
Speaker 1:
[29:05] If you like it, it's Chew It, no matter how much you like to screw.
Speaker 3:
[29:08] If you don't like it.
Speaker 5:
[29:10] Gotcha.
Speaker 1:
[29:11] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[29:11] I'm gonna take a little bath while this happens.
Speaker 5:
[29:12] Clear roll.
Speaker 1:
[29:14] Clinton, I was looking at this plate. I was like, no.
Speaker 2:
[29:17] I destroyed that. They were delicious.
Speaker 1:
[29:19] I mean, I swear, you ate this, it's like your last.
Speaker 2:
[29:21] I will degrade myself on TV for wins, Emanuella. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1:
[29:24] Yeah, and the sauce.
Speaker 2:
[29:25] I'm really proud of myself.
Speaker 1:
[29:26] Really great.
Speaker 4:
[29:27] I'm proud of myself too.
Speaker 2:
[29:29] All right.
Speaker 1:
[29:30] Here you go. Chew it or screw it. Ordering just flats. Chew it for yes, screw it for like, what the hell?
Speaker 5:
[29:36] Screw it, because I like drummies.
Speaker 1:
[29:38] Yeah. Okay, great. Wearing a bib as an adult.
Speaker 5:
[29:43] Oh, chew it. Who cares?
Speaker 1:
[29:47] Yeah, get down and dirty. Asking for extra sauce.
Speaker 5:
[29:51] Chew it.
Speaker 1:
[29:52] I love it. Unsolicited grilling advice from a stranger.
Speaker 5:
[29:57] Depends on the stranger. Okay. Chew it or screw it.
Speaker 1:
[30:00] Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 5:
[30:01] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[30:01] So when is it a chew it? I mean, is it a cute stranger, somebody who does it? Then when somebody just walks up and they're like, they don't eat meat, and they're like, what?
Speaker 5:
[30:08] Yeah, so it depends on how hard I've worked that day.
Speaker 1:
[30:11] Okay, okay.
Speaker 5:
[30:12] Most people, I'm very open. It's like, oh yeah, that's a great idea. I think you learn something from anybody.
Speaker 1:
[30:19] Yeah.
Speaker 5:
[30:20] But, you know, we have those narcissistic people who think they can do better than everybody, and I'm just the person to tell them, hey.
Speaker 1:
[30:27] Right, right, right, right, right.
Speaker 4:
[30:28] Not today. Not today's not today.
Speaker 1:
[30:30] Not today's safe.
Speaker 5:
[30:31] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[30:32] Turning every weekend into a barbecue competition.
Speaker 5:
[30:37] 10 years ago, chew it, now screw it.
Speaker 1:
[30:39] Right.
Speaker 3:
[30:40] I love it, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2:
[30:42] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Speaker 4:
[30:45] You've done plenty of those.
Speaker 5:
[30:47] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[30:48] Want to do some banh mi? Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[30:49] Do you dance?
Speaker 5:
[30:51] No.
Speaker 4:
[30:53] No air flyers and we don't dance.
Speaker 1:
[30:59] Okay. You're like, no. No. All right, here's the first one. What's your favorite ice cream brand and flavor?
Speaker 4:
[31:12] I'm vanilla bean. I know that sounds- I just love great vanilla ice cream, especially with the shot of espresso over it. Oh, okay. I forgot. I'm as happy as can be.
Speaker 1:
[31:21] I love it. Anybody? Even if you don't know the brand.
Speaker 2:
[31:24] I'll do Arathusa's. Arathusa mint chocolate chip is my favorite. Okay.
Speaker 5:
[31:29] Butter pecan.
Speaker 1:
[31:30] Oh, girl.
Speaker 4:
[31:30] What?
Speaker 1:
[31:31] Come with it, butter pecan.
Speaker 4:
[31:33] I love all those flavors too.
Speaker 1:
[31:34] I don't know if you can say becau, not pecan.
Speaker 5:
[31:36] No. Pecan's only in Jordan.
Speaker 1:
[31:40] I like Tillamook, and I like the vanilla. I like the Oregon berry. I also like their strawberry. I like, you know, a couple, a few of those flavors.
Speaker 4:
[31:48] Tillamook's good.
Speaker 2:
[31:49] Yeah, Tillamook is good.
Speaker 1:
[31:51] Here we go.
Speaker 2:
[31:52] Oregon, yeah. Hi.
Speaker 1:
[31:55] Please share an update on your next adventures at KR Someone.
Speaker 2:
[32:01] Next adventures. Well, do you want to go? Do you have a next adventure coming up? Doing a little book tour?
Speaker 1:
[32:05] I know because you talked about it. Yes.
Speaker 5:
[32:08] I don't know how adventurous that is, though.
Speaker 2:
[32:11] Or do you have a trip plan?
Speaker 5:
[32:12] I just got back from Qatar.
Speaker 1:
[32:13] Okay.
Speaker 5:
[32:15] Which was fantastic.
Speaker 4:
[32:16] That's a good trip.
Speaker 5:
[32:16] That's a good trip. And, you know, my baby girl keeps up with my schedule, so I'm not sure. All I know is I was getting to come see y'all, so I'm so nervous I can't think about tomorrow. I can't think about tomorrow.
Speaker 4:
[32:29] You're nervous to come see y'all?
Speaker 5:
[32:31] Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
[32:31] Did you bring any spices from Qatar?
Speaker 5:
[32:34] Wait, I brought the lemons.
Speaker 1:
[32:35] The lemons, yeah. See, I love that. I love that you showcase your travels through spices.
Speaker 5:
[32:41] Love it.
Speaker 1:
[32:43] All right, one more.
Speaker 5:
[32:43] Last one.
Speaker 1:
[32:44] One more. One more. Oh. I didn't get these. You probably watched me. You know how you vet them, Clinton.
Speaker 2:
[32:52] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[32:52] I did not. If you could live in a TV sitcom, which would it be and why? At Ashley Barrett, 2012.
Speaker 2:
[33:00] That's a good one, actually.
Speaker 1:
[33:01] I love this.
Speaker 2:
[33:01] If you could live in a TV sitcom, what do you think spring to mind for you?
Speaker 4:
[33:08] I know the ones I want to say, but I'm going to get in trouble. I was going to say, like, I'd be in Friends because then I could hang out with Jennifer Aniston, but then Liz would beat me.
Speaker 1:
[33:17] That's a good one.
Speaker 4:
[33:19] She's a nice Greek girl.
Speaker 2:
[33:24] I'll go. I'll say Three's Company.
Speaker 3:
[33:27] Oh, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:
[33:28] Back in the 70s with Jack and Janet and Chrissy, that would have been a fun time.
Speaker 4:
[33:32] John Ritter was hilarious.
Speaker 2:
[33:34] Hilarious. Great physical comedian.
Speaker 5:
[33:36] But unlike you, he was not really gay.
Speaker 2:
[33:41] He was not really gay.
Speaker 5:
[33:43] Yes.
Speaker 2:
[33:44] He was just pretending.
Speaker 5:
[33:45] Just the Ropers.
Speaker 2:
[33:46] I feel like what they need in the mix is a gay and actually gay.
Speaker 1:
[33:49] I agree.
Speaker 2:
[33:49] I agree.
Speaker 1:
[33:50] You could be the real gay.
Speaker 2:
[33:51] I could be the real gay.
Speaker 1:
[33:51] You know, I kind of like, I don't know why this is coming up for me, but I loved it. Dear John, dear John.
Speaker 2:
[34:01] You were singing that the other day. Do you remember that? It was a short look.
Speaker 1:
[34:06] I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:
[34:08] I don't remember. Like, what was that? Yeah, it was Judd Hirsch.
Speaker 1:
[34:11] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[34:11] And Joanna Gleason. They were in like a divorce support group.
Speaker 1:
[34:17] I don't know why I said that. It was something so funny about that show that was just so random that I really like it. I just like saying Dear John.
Speaker 4:
[34:25] I think I'd also like to be in The Sopranos.
Speaker 5:
[34:27] Oh, yes.
Speaker 4:
[34:28] Yes. The Sopranos would have been a cool show to be in.
Speaker 5:
[34:30] I could be a Peaky Blonder.
Speaker 1:
[34:34] That's a good answer.
Speaker 5:
[34:35] But I could also be Beth Dutton in Yellowstone.
Speaker 4:
[34:41] That was one of the great characters.
Speaker 1:
[34:43] No, that is not too much.
Speaker 4:
[34:44] I think her character was awesome in Yellowstone.
Speaker 2:
[34:49] I got visions in my head now.
Speaker 4:
[34:52] Time to have another wing.
Speaker 2:
[34:56] You're awesome. These are delicious. What's the fan giveaway today? I know. I've been giving somebody a hint.
Speaker 5:
[35:03] I can't.
Speaker 1:
[35:04] I'm busy.
Speaker 4:
[35:05] All right. Today's fan giveaway is Melissa's new book, Fanning the Flames. I'm sure we could get her to sign it for you too. It is gorgeous.
Speaker 2:
[35:14] All right, Melissa, so we're going to have you dip into the bucket, choose a name.
Speaker 5:
[35:17] I'm gonna dip in.
Speaker 2:
[35:18] Dip in. Don't read the last name, just the first name and where they're from.
Speaker 4:
[35:21] First name and where they're from.
Speaker 5:
[35:22] Oh, I don't know if I can do that. I didn't bring my glasses.
Speaker 4:
[35:24] I can read it for you. You're upside down. Rachel from Geneva. Rachel from Geneva, you are gonna get a signed copy of Fanning the Flames.
Speaker 5:
[35:35] Is it in Switzerland?
Speaker 2:
[35:36] Is it from Switzerland?
Speaker 4:
[35:37] Illinois.
Speaker 5:
[35:38] Close.
Speaker 1:
[35:40] I mean, Rachel, you're on your way to a bad asterisk. That is so good.
Speaker 2:
[35:46] We're gonna do two more. Give me three books.
Speaker 1:
[35:49] Love it.
Speaker 2:
[35:50] All right. Hand it to anybody wearing glasses, and we'll be good?
Speaker 5:
[35:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[35:56] One for Michael, one more.
Speaker 4:
[35:58] Jennifer from Ward.
Speaker 2:
[36:00] Second Jennifer.
Speaker 4:
[36:01] I don't know. Ward, Arizona, I think.
Speaker 5:
[36:04] We're going with our third Jennifer.
Speaker 2:
[36:06] If we got a third Jennifer, that would be a record.
Speaker 5:
[36:08] I would be like, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[36:09] Yeah, that would be a shot.
Speaker 1:
[36:10] I mean, 333s.
Speaker 4:
[36:11] Joan Close.
Speaker 2:
[36:12] Oh, Melissa.
Speaker 4:
[36:14] Joan from Elwood City, PA. So you guys all get a copy of the book.
Speaker 5:
[36:19] Congratulations. I totally screwed that up.
Speaker 4:
[36:22] Why?
Speaker 5:
[36:22] Because I only got two Jennifers on Jennifer. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:
[36:27] Well, you're lucky to have another Jennifer. Thank you.
Speaker 5:
[36:29] Thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1:
[36:30] This is amazing.
Speaker 4:
[36:31] Thank you.
Speaker 1:
[36:31] You're so great.
Speaker 4:
[36:34] Clinton's not scared anymore.
Speaker 1:
[36:35] My southern sister. Oh, you guys, check out Jennifer's book.
Speaker 4:
[36:45] Melissa.
Speaker 1:
[36:47] Check out Melissa's book. Have a great day, everybody.
Speaker 3:
[36:54] Thanks for tuning in to Chewed UP, and thanks to our sponsors, FreshDirect and Frontgate, for making this show possible. New episodes drop every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. To subscribe, snag recipes, and dig into all the extra fun, head to allchewedup.com. We'll see you next time. Bye. You can find us in your own kitchen.