transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:01] What's poppin, everybody? It's Logan Murdock here from The Ringer. The 2025-2026 NBA season is here, and we got your hoop podcast needs covered. On The Ringer NBA show, be sure to check out group chat with Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann on Sundays and Wednesdays, and real ones on Tuesdays and Fridays with myself, Raja Bell and Howard Beck. Get your Ringer-related NBA podcast fix on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, come find us on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at TheHandlerRingerMBA.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
[02:23] It's truly a Philly day here.

Speaker 5:
[02:30] Welcome to The Ringers Philly Special, Philly Special After Dark. It's 1:35 a.m. The kids are asleep. Everybody's off the road. You know what? It's time to talk. Eagles draft, I think a bit of a surprise. We'll see if CB agrees with me or not. They trade up. They take USC wide receiver. Makai Lemon, CB just got back. I'm just going to say Eagles practice facility. I was thinking I don't need to go by the, you know, the sponsored names anymore for these sports teams. But CB just got back from the practice facility. CB, I have not heard anything that Howie Roseman, Makai Lemon, Nick Sirianni, Dom, anybody else who was at the podium tonight? I haven't heard what any of them have had to say. So you're going to have to fill me in. You look like you just woke up. I feel like I'm getting early morning, CB, because you've got that first night of the draft glow right now.

Speaker 6:
[03:30] Oh, yeah. I hope, yeah. I am up, excited, enthused. You know, I was leaving the facility and I'm like, I got to go pod. I mean, I'm pumped. I have a lot I want to talk about here. So yes, you are getting, you're getting early morning, first night of the draft, Zach, for sure.

Speaker 5:
[03:50] It is a great night. You know, it really is one of the great nights on the NFL calendar. It's really more fun than a lot of the games that actually happen, in my opinion, during the regular season. It's just, you know, it's always going to deliver because you have no idea what's going to happen. There's been such a lead up, which I usually hate. But then when the night actually gets there, I feel the buzz like I did when I was a young pup. It's first starting to cover the Eagles and the NFL.

Speaker 7:
[04:16] All right, let's get to it.

Speaker 5:
[04:17] Makai Lemon, ZB. So I think there are different ways to tackle this. One is we can give background on the player. We can give our takes on whether we think this was a good pick. We can go straight to what Howie Roseman said. Let's start with our takes.

Speaker 6:
[04:33] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[04:33] Do you think the Eagles did a good job here? Cause that's what everyone's going to ask you when you're walking around tomorrow, when you're going, when you're grabbing, going for your walk, when you're getting a coffee, when you're taking the kids, whatever. They're going to say, ZB, what do you think? Makai Lemon, in the first round, what are you going to tell people about what you think about what the Eagles did tonight?

Speaker 6:
[04:52] I think they got really good value. Number one, at a position where the player is going to step in and play right away, it's an immediate need and it's a long term need. I can't tell you that he like jumps out to me as a can't miss player. I know there's no such thing as a can't miss player, but you know, he's not without his flaws. There are things in the profile that don't jump out to you, but when you just look at the production that he had, the way he plays, you can certainly understand it. And he wasn't someone who you thought would be there when the Eagles selected at 23. A matter of fact, I did an exercise on The Athletic a week and a half ago where I did 10 options in the first round and I ranked them. And I originally had Makai Lemon on the list. And then I spoke to people who were like, Makai Lemon's not going to be there. So I swapped out Makai Lemon and I put in Denzel Boston. And I bring that up.

Speaker 5:
[05:51] Oh no, bad sources. I hope you reached out to them today and say you screwed me.

Speaker 6:
[05:54] No, no, but like, and I'll kind of add in here a bit. I know we'll get into Howie later, but the Eagles had him as a top 15 player and they thought he was going to be off the board in the first 15 picks, right? And so he was kind of sticking out on their board. And I think most mock drafts you saw had him going, whether it was the Giants at 10, whether it was the, I think you saw mostly the Rams at 14. Some of you saw the Jets at 16, but certainly not in the 20s. And so I think good value at a position that can step in right away, not like, you know, I said, and I said on the show, I like Jordan Tyson more than him. Jordan Tyson to me was a more intriguing long-term prospect, but I do like what Makai Lemon could bring to the table.

Speaker 5:
[06:43] Yeah, you know, we did our exercise on the pod. We each named 10 players in the first round, and neither of us had Makai Lemon in that exercise either, for the reason you pointed out. So I have to remind myself next year, Sheil, do not worry about who's going to be available when the Eagles pick. They are going to trade up. They are going to try to trade up. But even then, I didn't think he was an obvious choice, because here's what I thought, ZB. I thought there's a chance they take wide receiver, but if they take wide receiver, it will be more of a situation of the board falling a certain way, and it gets to 23, and they say, oh, Casey Concepcion's the best player on our board. Let's go ahead and take him. I didn't think that they were going to trade up for a wide receiver, because I didn't think that they would necessarily, in my head, and I remember Fran said this when he was on. He was like, he's got those wide receivers bunched a little bit. Omar Cooper Jr. and Casey Concepcion and Makai Lemon, and I trust Fran. Just looking around, people had varied opinions. In my head, I was like, if those guys are bunched together, then it probably doesn't make sense to trade up for one of them, because why would you give up draft capital rather than just wait there? But obviously, to your point, so what did Howie say? He said that they had him as a top 15 player. He said, did he give any other details? And sometimes I feel like GMs are lying when they say that. I feel like Howie's track record has been pretty consistent when he says that kind of thing that I kind of believe him. He sort of has the gravitas and the job security, I should say, where he doesn't necessarily have to lie about that.

Speaker 6:
[08:22] Yeah, he said he thought there were 15 guys who were going to go, whether it was like the top 15 or their top 15. And he said, and only one of them didn't go. So only one of them was left. And then I asked him, in the simulations that you do, were there scenarios where he fell to you? And he said, not at 23. There were scenarios where he fell, and in those scenarios, they traded up to get him. So that's what he said. So, they had, he said the general manager thing, where they had 23 guys ranked, right, that they would have taken. And then they had some trade back possibilities as well. They traded out of their spot. But it was pretty clear, based on how he said, that Lemon was in a tier where he was the only one left in that tier. And that's why they were aggressive. And just to kind of add a little more color here, you might have seen this, you might not have seen this. This is the first time I'm talking to you. We didn't do any prep, obviously.

Speaker 5:
[09:24] I haven't seen anything, because I went on the Ringer NFL show as soon as the draft ended, and so I haven't seen anything.

Speaker 6:
[09:30] All right, so you're gonna like this. So this speaks to the intel that the Eagles get. The Pittsburgh Steelers were on the phone with Makai Lemon. Okay, yeah, and Makai Lemon confirmed this. The Pittsburgh Steelers were on the phone with him at 21, when the Eagles traded up the 20 to get him. So clearly he was not gonna be on the board at 23. And they pulled the rug underneath from the Steelers there, because I saw, I think it was Andrew Philoponi on Twitter saying that the Steelers were like the team in your fantasy draft, to they're on auto draft and like, because it gets to the end. And so it just takes whoever they add in the queue. Like they weren't kind of prepared for that situation. I don't know if that's true or not, but they were on the phone with Makai Lemon ready to take Makai Lemon. So Lemon wouldn't have been there at 23. The Eagles had the trade up to get him. And it was clear from how we said that the players were coming off the board and he was the only one left. Now I can't tell you right now, if Freeling and Lemon were there, would they have taken Freeling? I can't tell you if Sadiq and Lemon were there. I don't know where he was in that order. I just know he was the only one of the 15 who was remaining.

Speaker 5:
[10:48] Can I ask a question about this Steelers thing? So like Zibi said, I think Ian Rappaport first reported that on NFL Network, where the Steelers were on the phone with Makai Lemon basically telling him we're picking you because they thought the Cowboys are definitely taking a defensive player. Maybe the Cowboys told them we're definitely going to take a defensive player. We're one spot ahead of you. And then the Eagles are calling them, are calling Makai Lemon, and then he has to go to the Eagles. Why are the Steelers calling before it's their turn to pick? That's the part I don't understand. Like this isn't that crazy of a possibility that someone could trade up and take the player you were going to take. I don't understand this part of the story, Zibi.

Speaker 6:
[11:31] Yeah, that is an interesting one. I do know these teams call sometimes to get ahead of it. I saw something maybe in Arizona.

Speaker 7:
[11:39] But how could you call before it's your pick?

Speaker 5:
[11:41] The guy could literally get picked as the whole part of the draft.

Speaker 6:
[11:44] Sure. I saw in Arizona they had the wrong number for their pick. Oh my God. That does not shock me. And Howie even said that it took them longer than they wanted to get Lemon on the phone. Because Lemon was on the phone with Pittsburgh at the time, right? That's how Howie answered the question. He didn't say like they knew Pittsburgh was going to take him. But they're like, it took them longer than usual to get him on the phone. But clearly, the Eagles had some type of intel that Pittsburgh was going to take Lemon. Otherwise, I mean, they gave up two fourth round picks. They only have two picks now on day three. Obviously, that's going to change. Or I shouldn't say obviously, presumably, that's going to change. But this was an aggressive trade because they clearly didn't think Lemon would be there at 23. And to add, I can't keep using buttress because in the comments of my story, they're saying buttress. To buttress that point.

Speaker 5:
[12:40] Good, who cares? That's great for the brand, buttress. It's a fun word.

Speaker 6:
[12:44] To buttress that point, I don't think they had these wide receivers stacked together. I don't think they viewed Lemon and Cooper and Concepcion in the same group. I think there was a drop-off there based on my interpretation.

Speaker 5:
[12:59] Yeah, I mean, you would have to, at this point, we would have to assume otherwise there would be no point in trading up for Makai Lemon if they felt like they were grouped together. So they had some separation there. You have the details of the trade, I guess I could have mentioned there. Eagles trade 23, 114 and 137. So two fourth round picks for number 20. So to move up three spots, they give up two fourth round picks. I was looking at the trade charts.

Speaker 6:
[13:23] And they get a seventh rounder next year back as well. That's important to include.

Speaker 5:
[13:27] Oh, is that true? That wasn't the initial one. Okay, did Howie go out of his way to mention that to make sure everybody got the right detail on that?

Speaker 6:
[13:34] No, but that was in the team's announcement, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[13:38] Okay, I think the trade charts, and there's so many different ones, I think they suggest it's kind of the equivalent of like a mid-third ZB from, you know, it depends. Which trade chart do you want to look at? It's not like one's right and the others are wrong. So I kind of look at them and say, oh, yeah, all right, that makes sense. So like a mid-third, you're giving up to go move up three spots there to get Makai Lemon. So five 11th, one night, first of all, I'm with you.

Speaker 6:
[14:07] Okay, yeah, I want to hear what you think of this.

Speaker 5:
[14:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm getting ahead of myself. You know, I'm not as organized as you. I'm not in like postgame pod mode here anymore. So I think that, yeah, I do agree with you where I don't have a strong feeling about this one, where I'm like, they nailed it, or what are they doing? I think you're right to point to the value here, which I think is a key, because I think the consensus boards for them, I know it's like part of their modeling, I'm sure. I'm not saying they just draft by a consensus board, but if you just look at like their drafts over the last five years or so, they generally rank pretty highly when you look at RA. And for those who don't know, the consensus boards are just the exercise. If you take everybody out there, you don't have to take everybody. You can say, these are the five people whose opinions I trust, and they put out a public draft board, one to 50, one to 100, one to 150, whatever it is. And I'm going to put those together in a spreadsheet, and I'm going to come up with an average of where they have all these players. And I'm going to look at that, because it's like a wisdom of the crowds thing where, hey, this person might have spoken to this scout, this person might have seen them at the senior bowl, I didn't see, whatever, whatever information each person has, it's a way to aggregate all of that. And NFL teams will include that in their draft models. Now, some might look at it more than others, whatever. But if you look at the Eagles in recent years, like the players they pick early on, especially in the first round, it feels like pretty consistently, it's been someone where you say, okay, where they rank on those consensus boards is higher than where the Eagles actually got them. So that applies to me.

Speaker 6:
[15:45] I have that data for you, if you would like.

Speaker 5:
[15:48] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[15:49] Okay, so, so on and on, I had the data, right? Okay, here.

Speaker 5:
[15:54] Take your time.

Speaker 6:
[15:54] So yeah, no, here, Davante Smith, they drafted number 10 overall, he was number eight on the consensus big board. Jordan Davis was the only difference here, they took him 13 overall, he was 15th on the big board. So not dramatic difference. Jalen Carter, number nine overall, number four on the consensus big board. Quinian Mitchell, number 22 overall, number 15 on the big board. Jihad Campbell, number 31 overall, number 16 on the big board. So deltas for all of these. Nolan Smith was the same thing. And then, so in this one here on the athletics consensus big board today, they had Makai Lemon as number 14 and Eagles landed him at number 20.

Speaker 5:
[16:31] There you go. So yeah, I think that's a good marker to look at where you say, because a lot of times, I know like 15 years ago when it would be like, this player slipped, this player didn't, is it a reach, is it not a reach? You kind of had no way of actually knowing that, but I feel like this is a good way to give yourself at least a baseline of what the consensus is on a player. And whether it was 13, 14, whatever, they got him at a later spot than the consensus big board would suggest. And I think that served them well to look at that, whether they're looking at it more or not. I don't know. It certainly looks like it feels like they're looking at it more or using it more than maybe they did earlier in Howie Roseman's career. So I like it from that aspect. I like it from premium position. I mean, you got third wide receivers getting paid a lot of money in the NFL. You obviously don't, you want Makai Lemon to be better than a third wide receiver. But actually if he's a good third wide receiver, you know, like what those guys are getting paid, sometimes $10 million per year, a third wide receiver. So from that perspective, it makes sense where the bar to clear for him to be a good pick is, you know, lower than it would be for someone like Jeremiah Love at number three, where he's got to just kind of be like a hall of fame running back for that pick to make any kind of sense at all. So I like it from that perspective. I like parts of the profile. We can talk about that here in a second. So I'm like a, I get it. I understand it. It makes sense. It kind of wasn't on my radar going into the draft. That's sort of where I'm at with this, which doesn't make for a great clip or a sound bite, but that's sort of how I feel about it. And you know what? I already got the short form vertical video up before the pod even started. So we're already set there where I don't have to speak in sound bites, CBA. So we're feeling good.

Speaker 6:
[18:24] Well, we're 16 minutes in and we haven't discussed AJ Brown's name, right? And I think that's where a lot of Eagles fans went with this too, when the pick was made. And so I'll just say, like, this signals a post-AJ Brown world. Like, the Eagles are thinking about a post-AJ Brown world. I don't think it's fair to Makai Lemon or, like, realistic from a football perspective to say that Makai Lemon is an AJ Brown replacement. For the reason that he's a different type of player, number one, I think the offense is going to look different. I think Devontae Smith is really the AJ Brown replacement, if you think about it. But, yeah, I mean, as we've discussed, my expectation is that AJ Brown gets traded. And I think what this does, because, you know, Dantavian Wicks was not the answer there. He was just kind of part of what they were doing. Certainly, Hollywood Brown and Elijah Moore, like, they haven't done enough there, and they needed to do something. Spending your first round pick, trading up in the first round on a wide receiver who was considered, you know, Dane Bruegler had him number two, but was considered one of the top three receivers in this draft class, I think does signal that, like, this is the post-AJ Brown world for the Eagles.

Speaker 5:
[19:33] Yeah, the reason I end up bringing it up is because I feel like we've been pretty consistent. We've basically just been speaking as if AJ Brown is going to be traded for a long time here. We haven't, you know, gone back and forth. It's just been like, no, if, listen, if he's with them on week one in uniform, I'll be like, all right, AJ Brown is still an Eagle. I don't expect that to happen. You didn't expect that to happen. BLG didn't expect that to happen. So we've just, you know, been talking for months now, basically just assuming that AJ Brown is not going to be an Eagle. And now those, you know, reports are a little more firm. Schefter had the one that we discussed on the previous pod. Rappaport said something on the broadcast today. So yeah, I mean, it would just be a total shock at this point if AJ Brown played one more game as an Eagle. It seems like the expectation is June, that trade's going to get done with the New England Patriots and then everybody will move on after that. So yes, Makai, as it stands now, Devontae Smith, Makai Lemon, Dontavian Wicks, it feels like would be your three wide receivers and 11 personnel. Marquise Brown is your four, which is, that's better than Marquise Brown. Hollywood Brown being your number two, and it's not going to be as good, and we know it's not going to be as good, but you know that when you trade a player like AJ Brown, and so you're just trying to figure it out and piece it together, and obviously you're right. The Makai Lemon, he does come in under a microscope because you're going to be the guy that the Eagles traded up for in the first round in the same off season where they traded away AJ Brown, who has just had the best stretch of any wide receiver in Eagles history. I don't know if that's fair to say. It might be fair to say, right? From 2022 to probably, well, as to 2025, is that the best four-year stretch? That's the best four-year stretch by a wide receiver in Eagles history. And now you're coming in in a year where you're changing the offense and you change the offensive line coach. It's like, all right, you better not be another Jalen Rager out here for us. So he does come in with the spotlight on him. And I'm sure they're going to try to shift everyone away from that narrative into your point. It's true. He's not coming in trying to replace AJ Brown, but still it's going to be hard to watch an Eagles game next year. And you're like, all right, there's Makai Lemon and AJ Brown's not on the team. What's Makai Lemon doing? That's how we're going to view a lot of the wide receiver play next year.

Speaker 6:
[21:50] You're right, and I reference different playing style because, yeah, and different body type too. You started kind of on the profile before, but AJ Brown, when you see him, he's like a physically imposing player, right? He is just, he's strong, he plays powerful. And Makai Lemon, I don't want to call him undersized, but he's not a size speed guy. And the comparison you hear a lot is Iman Rasayn Brown. And kind of that's the way he plays, is that you say, what is he special at? And this is the thing that the Eagles coaches talked about, or the Eagles officials, so Howie and Nick, is the separation ability that he has, the hands that he has, the competitiveness. Like, you're really banking on the playing style more than the traits. And we've talked about how, like, the Eagles are a traits-oriented team, but this is, it's almost like when they took Devontae Smith, where you can say how many receivers who are 160-something pounds or 170 pounds can turn into an elite player, and you're like, well, look at the production that he had. I mean, Makai Lemon was the top receiver in college football last year in terms of the award, the Poletnikov Award. I mean, Jeremiah Smith was the best player, but he was that, he was a unanimous All-American. And when you watch him play, he was really good at catching the football and running with the football. He did what you want at that position. So I think a lot of the question too is, is he a slot only guy? Will he play on the outside? Do you have to manufacture touches for him? But if you use the Amman Rasen Brown comparison, and you say, all right, him and Devontae Smith, then I think you have like two high-volume receivers on your team.

Speaker 5:
[23:47] All right, let's take a break. We come back. I want to talk more about the bio, about the traits, and about what we like from Makai Lemon. And then we got to get to some day two targets as well. We'll do all that when we come back. The Ringer's Philly Special is brought to you by FanDuel. NBA fans, this is your reminder to check in daily. Because every day during the playoffs, FanDuel is serving up a happy hour. We're talking special drops you won't want to miss. From profit boost to bonus bets and more. And the best part, it's every single day, including today. Check for a new reward every single day of the NBA playoffs. And don't miss your shot to get a little extra out of the action. Head to fanduel.com/ringerphilly to get started. 21 plus in select states or 18 plus in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required rewards or non-withdrawable restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 1-888-789-7777. Or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.

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Speaker 5:
[25:57] All right, we're back on The Ringers Philly Special. All right, ZB, give people the bio, the background for people who just are not draft Knicks and are just like, I'm gonna jump in after they actually select somebody. Give us the bio on Makai Lemon, and I will fill in the gaps after you give us what you find interesting.

Speaker 6:
[26:17] Yeah, 21 years old, a three-year player, right? So he came out after his junior year, 5'11, 192. Did not run at the Combine, but ran at his pro day, ran four or five. So like not elite speed, certainly not elite size, but he was like outstanding last year at USC. 79 catches, 1,156 yards, 11 touchdowns. He did this all in 12 games. Unanimous All-American, like I said, a Balitnikov Award winner. And so that's what stood out. And like when you hear people talk about him, from draft analyst to NFL analyst, like he's like your, I don't want to say your favorite analyst, but like your NFL analyst's favorite receiver in this draft. Because like he has a really like nasty competitive playing style. Like he's tough. He had, he was the only player in the Big Ten this year with over 500 yards after the catch. He navigates in the middle of the field. He doesn't drop the ball. I think what Dane Bruegler had in there was like a 2.8% drop rate in college. And so that's what you kept hearing. Like I saw Chase Daniel say he was his favorite receiver in the draft. I think Daniel Jeremiah said he was one of his favorite players in the draft. Steve Smith has a real good video up with James Palmer on Makai Lemon. But like there's definitely, you know, Nick Sirianni mentioned is blocking. And like you don't take a receiver in the first round because it's blocking. But I think that's anecdotal to like the way that he plays. And as Makai Lemon described himself, he said like the Eagles are getting a dog, right? And I think there's, if Eagles fans want to see like a certain style from their wide receiver, that's going to fit in in Philly because that is how he plays. He does play with like that Steve Smith, Amon Ross, St. Brown toughness in the middle of the field.

Speaker 5:
[28:20] He's got that dog in him. That is that. This isn't about his height or his wingspan or his speed. This is about his play personality, the type of player he is where he is competitive and feisty and will do the little things. The best version of Makai Lemon is doing all those things. So yeah, I agree with everything you said there. Now, he does turn 22 in June. So 21 now, but he's got the birthday coming up, will be 22. You gave the measurables. I mean, we're talking 16th percentile arm length, wingspan, weight, 28th percentile. So this is, I think it is fair to call him undersized in a lot of those categories. Now you mentioned the profile, not only last year, but 2024. He led USC in catches and yards as a sophomore. You mentioned the usage, 76 percent of his snaps in college were in the slot. Now that's interesting because one thing about the Eagles scheme, potentially, and I was texting with Sean Syed and he's going to watch the Makai Lemon film and come on next week. But in terms of the splits, you know, sometimes you're the outside receiver in the Sean McVay, whatever, Shanna Ann LaFleur, Manon Scheme. But it's tight split, so you are almost operating. You're still operating like a slot receiver, even though you're on the outside, if that makes sense. That's very different than, hey, we're in a three by one. You're lining up on the outside one on one, and that guy's going to press you. I don't think that's Makai Lemon skill set, but they might look at it and be like, no, he's going to be able to line up in different spots for offense the way we're going to play offense here. But he certainly looks like a slot receiver. When you watch him play, he did miss ZB the first quarter versus UCLA for a violation of team rules. That was in all the draft guides in the bio. So I don't know what that was about, but that was kind of the one thing, the one negative perhaps on his bio there. When I was looking at him and I was trying to zoom through, Fran does a great job. There's so many great draft guides out there. I was looking at Fran's on all city because he had the clips in there from various people. Two things that stand out with him. One is the hands. You mentioned it. That drop rate, 2.8%. And then just he's making some difficult catches, whether it's just adjustments or whether it's a contested catch, it's not like he's just wide open. And these are very easy catches. So the hands are very, very strong. That is a huge plus. And then the tackle breaking is kind of wild when you watch the highlights. He is just pinballing off of defenders in college. And that's the one, you know, those two things I look at, the contested catches and the tackle breaking. And if I were a skeptic, I would say at his size, are we sure that's going to translate to the NFL? It could and it could not. But when I have like questions about him, I'm like, are we sure he's going to be breaking all these tackles against NFL defensive backs? I think that's a fair question to ask. And we obviously won't know until he's playing that caliber of opponent. But he absolutely did it in college. The yards per route run, that was phenomenal. Very efficient. The comps, you mentioned Amon Ross, St. Brown, Fran Head, Khalil Shakir. I'll tell you what, Daniel Jeremiah mentioned Julian Edelman during the broadcast. I thought it was, and again, I haven't fully dove in. I'm gonna do that before we do the pod with Syed. But from what I watched tonight, I was kind of like, I actually very much see that with Julian Edelman as a good comp for Makai Lemon. So I thought that was an interesting one. And I thought Khalil Shakir was very good also. We're just kind of like this, you know? He's physical, he's tough, he's catching balls in the middle of the field, he's breaking tackles, he's not going down, he's seeking contact, he's playing hard. All those things really stood out from what I've seen with Makai Lemon. So he certainly is a fun player there for the Eagles. All right, 13th on Consensus Board, we talked about the wide receiver room. Fran had him 24th on his big board in his wide receiver three. Dane Bruegler had him 13th overall in his wide receiver two. Nate Tice had him 31st and a lot of that was because he was saying if he's slot only, I only put wide receivers who are slot only so high so he was kind of the low man there. Daniel Jeremiah had him 12th on his big board and that's your point said one of his favorite players in the entire draft there. What else did we get CB from talking to? You spoke to Makai Lemon, right?

Speaker 6:
[33:01] Yeah, briefly. It was like a three and a half minute thing.

Speaker 5:
[33:04] Those are always interesting. Do you gather around the phone? Is that still how it works?

Speaker 6:
[33:07] No, post-COVID it's video calls now.

Speaker 5:
[33:10] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[33:12] Yeah, so you're...

Speaker 5:
[33:12] But you're all at the NovaCare complex. So what, is he on a big screen or something?

Speaker 6:
[33:16] No, so I just put my headphones in.

Speaker 5:
[33:18] Okay.

Speaker 6:
[33:20] Did I lose you here? I still have you. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[33:23] Okay. So you're all at your computers during this?

Speaker 6:
[33:25] Yes. Some people go into different rooms, but I just go right there. Yes, so Makai Lemon, he was talking about... Well, first off, he took a 30 visit to the Eagles. Right? There was...

Speaker 5:
[33:39] Never heard it.

Speaker 6:
[33:39] I don't know if that came out.

Speaker 5:
[33:40] Interesting.

Speaker 6:
[33:41] Yeah. He let Nick Sirianni win in horse, played basketball against Sirianni, let him win in horse, but won't do it again. He won't let Nick win again, he said. He gave the play-by-play of the Steelers' call. He was on the phone with Pittsburgh, and his phone kept ringing, and it was the Eagles, and so he had to take that. You wonder if the Steelers had him on the phone in case anyone else called. He doesn't pick up. Someone's like, I can't get a hold of this guy. We're not going to draft him.

Speaker 5:
[34:14] But you can still draft him, right?

Speaker 6:
[34:17] No, Howie actually has a rule. Howie has a rule that they don't draft someone without talking to them first.

Speaker 5:
[34:21] Why?

Speaker 6:
[34:25] I don't know.

Speaker 5:
[34:26] What do you mean? What could possibly be the reason for that rule? You're going to give up on a good player because he's not picking up his phone? I need a follow up there, ZB. That doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 6:
[34:34] Howie has said that. He was on one of those national shows at the Combine, and he was talking about stories. He said there was a guy who they couldn't track him down, and he went outside and his parents had to go get him, because they have a rule that they don't draft someone without talking to them first.

Speaker 5:
[34:52] I don't get that. You got to call in the pick. You've done all this work for months, and now if you couldn't get in touch with him, you wouldn't draft him? That makes no sense.

Speaker 6:
[35:01] All right, so you want to make sure he's not on a bender or something? I don't know, right?

Speaker 5:
[35:04] Yes, maybe, yeah. So the Steelers, maybe the Steelers knew that rule. You're right. Maybe they were like, we're going to keep you on the phone.

Speaker 6:
[35:10] Andy Weidl's like, hey, if we just keep him on the phone, he won't pick up. Jeffrey's going to be in the room and be like, we can't do this.

Speaker 5:
[35:19] Yeah. He's a character though, right? I mean, he is an interesting personality.

Speaker 6:
[35:25] Yeah, you know, he had this.

Speaker 5:
[35:26] An intensity about him, it feels like.

Speaker 6:
[35:28] Yeah, he had this combine press conference that people panned. I didn't think it was that bad. And I watched it back and I was there that day.

Speaker 5:
[35:36] I haven't watched it, but yeah, that is making the rounds. I'll watch it.

Speaker 6:
[35:39] He's not like politically correct. He's just kind of like blunt and. But now I. He's a dog. Yeah. He said that. He said the Eagles are getting a dog. He said.

Speaker 5:
[35:50] I think he is.

Speaker 6:
[35:52] He knows, you know, I asked him about what he knows about Jalen Hurts and the offense. And he said, you know, he's excited to play with Smitty and Jalen and the defense. He didn't mention AJ. I should say, Howie was asked about AJ. And Howie's like gave the same thing. AJ Brown's an eagle. They have no deal worked out, that kind of thing, which he has to say. But yes, so but Makai Lemon's call was briefed on. He will be in Philly tomorrow for. So I should say today we're talking in 207. He'll be there later this afternoon. And I'll have a better I'll have a chance to talk to him in person then. But it was it was more the the Howie and Nick component of it that stood out. And Howie was was was yeah was was given the play-by-play as as far as like those 15 guys on the board. And the fact that he's that he stood out the the simulation part of it. What they like about him as a receiver. They mentioned the slot. They also think that he can play outside. That this was not the type of thing where they went in like with the specific position, but it was it was the value. They let the board come to them. He was asked about like not taking an offensive line and having like so few picks. And he's like, well, we'll talk about that after the draft. You know, there's there's there's two more days left here.

Speaker 5:
[37:19] Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[37:19] So that's that's clearly going to change as well.

Speaker 5:
[37:23] If I asked you, I'm putting you on the spot here.

Speaker 6:
[37:26] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[37:27] Let's say the draft played out a different way and they weren't able to get Makai Lemon. Do you have like two or three guys where you're like, I think this is who they actually would have ended up with.

Speaker 6:
[37:39] Well, it's a good question because so if we just play this out, right? The Steelers took Maxi Honichur there. So if the Steelers take Lemon at 20, I imagine Maxi Honichur falls. I don't think the Chargers take him.

Speaker 5:
[37:58] Well, the Cowboys would have drafted at 20.

Speaker 6:
[38:00] So let's say the Cowboys would have stayed. I still think they would have taken Lawrence. They would have taken Makai Lawrence or maybe they would have, which edge rusher went to the Chargers?

Speaker 5:
[38:10] Akeem Mesadour.

Speaker 6:
[38:11] Yeah. I still think they would have taken Lawrence.

Speaker 5:
[38:13] I think they probably would have taken Lawrence. It was a reach when they took him anyway at 20. They probably would have just taken him at 20.

Speaker 6:
[38:19] I saw Christian Parker was sending photos of Lawrence to Will McClay, their scouting director, all week. So I think that's the guy they had kind of pinpointed there. You know, I know that, and Fran, who I respect a great, like Fran is amazing. Fran is really high on Keltrick Falk. I don't have like an indication that the Eagles were, like that was their guy there. Right? So my guess is they would have taken Maxi Hanator.

Speaker 5:
[38:49] So Lemon goes 21, let's say. 22, the Chargers take Mesadour.

Speaker 6:
[38:55] Probably still take Mesadour. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[38:56] Do they definitely take him over Ihanator? I mean, they could have taken Ihanator.

Speaker 6:
[39:00] They could have taken Ihanator.

Speaker 5:
[39:01] If he was a, now if they thought he was a tackle only, then they probably don't do that. If they thought he could play some card, then maybe they take Ihanator. Let's say that Ihanator goes instead of Mesadour.

Speaker 6:
[39:13] Okay. So then I could speculate and say, well, I could speculate and say Keltrick Falk, but my guess is the Eagles probably trade back in that situation. Because they did, yeah, they did have some trade backs. My guess is they would have been in a cluster there and they would have tried to trade back, but it could be, I don't know what other deals were on the table for them, but they probably would have gone volume there. I think another question that's worth asking is, let's say like Dylan Theoman goes 19 to Carolina, and so that's not Freeling, and let's say Freeling and Lemon are on the board at 20. Are the Eagles trading up to that spot for Freeling? Are they trading up for Lemon? I still think they would trade up for Freeling, knowing the Eagles. But again, I don't know where Lemon ranked on their board, and certainly sounded like they thought he was gonna be gone in the first 15 picks, and I think they thought he was going to the Rams or the Jets, are the two teams that I think they thought he was gonna go to. So in that case, once he slips, that really changes things. So I think that's the interesting scenario to play out, is would they have gone Freeling? Is it like just kind of confirmation bias on my end, because I thought they were gonna go, oh, they'll tackle that I'm saying Freeling? Or do we think they had Lemon rated above him? I don't have the answer to that.

Speaker 5:
[40:51] Yeah, that's a tough one. Ruben Bain started falling, I thought, ooh, are they gonna make a move for Ruben Bain Jr.? He goes 15. You're right, the Jets take Kenyon Siddique at 16 instead of Lemon. They certainly could have taken Lemon there. Instead, they come back in the first round and take Omar Cooper Jr. Vikings just throwing a huge wrench into the first round taking Caleb Banks at 18. A wild pick, when the analyst is saying, my 51st player on my board was Daniel Jeremiah said first. And then Joel Klatt chimes in and is like, he's 330 pounds and dealing with foot injuries. And I like, I kind of like a swing on Caleb Banks. I thought he had an interesting profile, but the injury stuff with him was alarming, where it felt like the Vikings didn't really know what they were doing there with no GM. And the coach is just being like, hey, his guy's sweet. Let's go, let's go ahead and get him. So Eagles end up with Makai Lemon. I'm trying, now one thing I saw in Dane Brugler's write up, 70% of his catches came inside the numbers. Jalen, we got it, we got it, we gotta let it rip inside the numbers this year, man. That's where the guys are gonna be open there. So that was a little interesting nugget from him as well. All right, CP, anything else here on Makai Lemon or should we get to the day two targets or whatever else is on your mind?

Speaker 6:
[42:16] Yeah, I think that when you look at this long term, because as Hollywood would tell you, the first round pick is about more than one contract. And Devontae Smith is their clear guy. And I guess one thing I look at here is their top two receivers going forward here are both on, like they're both outliers in terms of like they're both on the smaller end. And so you're really gonna have and they're both really tough. Like I think the world of Devontae Smith's toughness and Nick will say pound for pound, Devontae's the toughest guy on the team, right? But you're going into these games with what, like 175 pound or 170 pound receiver on one side and 100 and, you know, a 90 pound receiver on the other. Like it's not you. You certainly don't have that physical presence that AJ Brown is. And I think that's a question going forward here is how they're going to structure this. So yeah, you know, there's a lot that's gonna happen over the next few years. Obviously they could add another receiver in next year's draft, they could sign someone, they could trade for someone. But how he keeps making this reference to they want like a basketball team, they want different types of receivers, different skill sets. And I kind of look at it like, well, now you have like two small guards in your back court, you know, how are you gonna round this out? So I am curious to see that.

Speaker 5:
[43:59] It actually is a good comp to Maxey and Edgecomb because they're totally different though, you know, just like Maxey and Edgecomb. It's like it, you know, Devontae Smith and Makai Lemon are totally different players in what they do well and where they operate and yards after the catch and just kind of the nuances to playing the position. So I always hate that basketball to build a basketball team. Just get the best, you know, get the best guys. It's okay. You don't have to build a basketball team here. But yes, it's true. They got a couple of guys who are undersized there. It hasn't been an issue at all for Devontae Smith. And I'm with everyone. He could be a monster in this offense. I've said for years that if he were on a different team and was the number one option in a team that threw the football more, maybe with a different offensive coordinator or a different quarterback, that his production will be through the roof. And maybe this is the year that we see that. And Makai Lemon, he is someone you can scheme touches up for in terms of just, you know, throwing screens and, you know, that kind of thing, just getting the ball in his hands. Again, will that definitely translate to the NFL? They certainly think so or they wouldn't trade it up to number 20. But I do think the size there is worth pointing out for Makai Lemon. All right.

Speaker 6:
[45:15] And then the second question that I had for you too was, and this is for both of you, is this a popular group text pick? Because you mentioned how Sadiq is that guy, but I got to think, like, you know, at 6.15 tomorrow morning or this morning, I'm going to see my son and I sound like we don't live with each other. He's going to wake up. I will see him. And I will tell him the Eagles took Makai Lemon. And I got to imagine, like, for just fans, like, taking an exciting wide receiver is an exciting pick. And especially compared to an offensive line that you might have to wait two years to see.

Speaker 5:
[45:57] Here's what I think, Cliff, and you tell me if I'm wrong. I think this is one that when the pick was made, I think there probably wasn't a lot of, you know, oh, let's go, how he sees it. I think as people learned more about the player and see more about the player, that they are easily able to talk themselves into, oh, all right, this guy's pretty sweet. I'm in on this pick. That's what I think, Cliff. That's what's happening, I think, on some group chats. What do you think?

Speaker 4:
[46:29] I'm going to read some of them. Oh, I love this. He said, Lemon Pepper, he said, just don't be Rager. He's crying to be a legend. We got to get him in the trenches. He's going to be running wild with Lil Uzi. Oh, another LA Hood dude, that's one of the Eagles, perfect. Should have had AJ in the draft room. Some other stuff I can't repeat here.

Speaker 5:
[46:56] Now who is this group chat?

Speaker 7:
[46:58] Who are these reasonable people?

Speaker 4:
[47:01] Everybody in my chats are reasonable. Everybody in my chats are reasonable. Here's another one. Here's another one. Here's another one. This, damn, I missed a lot of... I'm sorry, I had like 100 some missed messages. So let me...

Speaker 6:
[47:12] Wow.

Speaker 4:
[47:13] All right, let's relax.

Speaker 6:
[47:14] What a flex that is. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[47:16] This is the group chat. Let me just go through this.

Speaker 5:
[47:18] I have one text message.

Speaker 4:
[47:21] Howie back on his Pac-12 receiver binge by AJ Brown. Hopefully, this one is better than the last USC receiver we got. I can't read some of this stuff. Wasted Pick. I'll admit, I'm shocked they went with a receiver. AJ are definitely over. Another bad thing I can't read here.

Speaker 5:
[47:45] All right, so even though this is after dark.

Speaker 4:
[47:47] Lemon a bust, lemon a bust. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

Speaker 5:
[47:54] Oh my gosh, that's mute that. Come on, unless it's a listener, great joke. All right, so I think it's a little all over the place. I think that's true. I do think that as people. Well, I do think it's going to be fair to say, is what he does well at USC, is that going to translate to the NFL? I think that is a fair question to ask and we'll see. But I do think people are going to take a liking to him. You want to read the stories from ZB and others. First week of training camp. Oh man, Makai Lemon is just, you got to see this guy. Incredible. You want that to be the story. They got a lot of moving parts, man. They got rookie wide receiver expected to be what? The number two target?

Speaker 6:
[48:41] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[48:41] On the team?

Speaker 6:
[48:42] Yeah. I mean, maybe number two. Let's say, let's say, let's say, target.

Speaker 5:
[48:46] All right. So rookie wide receiver expected to be a top three target. New offensive coordinator, new offensive line coach for the first time in 13 years, new scheme being implemented here. Like there's a lot of changes going on with this offense. This is an overhaul. This isn't a tweak in whether it's personnel coaching scheme, whatever, and they're asking the same quarterback to do a lot of different things. That's going to be the story of the 20-26 season. The same quarterback who has been here is now being asked to play a totally different way. And how well is he able to do it in year one of this scheme? I mean, that's going to go a long way in determining the success of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2026. All right, CB, it's 2-20. You got to be up, you said, with your son in four hours or whatever. What's the over-under on CB hours of sleep now until, let's say, what's the day, Thursday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night? What's the total we're getting?

Speaker 6:
[49:49] Oh, I mean, 12, 15. But, honestly, the reality is, A, this is awesome, but B, the reality is, ZB's never had a successful person who's gotten eight hours of sleep, as he's told us. No, no, no, no, I'm not saying that. I believe sleep's important. But I'm saying, I have the next three months to get, I have very few excuses during the next three months to get four hours of sleep, right?

Speaker 5:
[50:18] Coming to you from the man who said, I have the rest of my life with these kids.

Speaker 6:
[50:21] Yeah, this is draft weekend. After draft weekend, everything that happens with the Eagles, presumably will happen during like working hours, right? Outside of like the AJ Brown thing. And I can plan ahead for stories. So yeah, I should have a much healthier lifestyle until the end of July when training camp begins. And then it just goes into that vicious cycle again.

Speaker 5:
[50:47] All right, ZB, Day 2 targets.

Speaker 6:
[50:50] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[50:50] Who do you have the Eagles going after? What picks do they have on Friday night? Give me a little Day 2 mock draft.

Speaker 6:
[51:01] Yes. So the Eagles have their original second and then both thirds. OK. And so they didn't take they didn't take offensive line. You know, Chase Basantis is still there. I don't think he will last to their spot. I think if you're interested in safety, the one that really jumps out is Emmanuel McNeil Warren. So, that's a distinct possibility for looking at edge. TJ Parker is someone that we spoke about. Cassius Howell. There's a lot of edge rushers that are going to be there. Your boy, AJ Halsey, is still in play. My second round pick, Chris Bell, they would not go in that direction. Emmanuel Pregnan, the guard from Oregon, he's still available. A bunch of edge rushers like, you know, Gabe Yakes, Arben Mason-Thomas. I think, though, the one thing that's worth having a conversation on the show here for a bit is, a Jonathan Grenard trade is still very much a possibility here. And so I think if you're looking for a splash tomorrow, it would be Jonathan Grenard. It would be trading for Grenard.

Speaker 5:
[52:12] It feels like some of the reporting around that is like, this is, you know, it's almost like the AJ Brown trade. Like, this is happening. The Eagles are trading for Jonathan Grenard.

Speaker 6:
[52:23] I've heard them link to him since March. And I think that the question here has been comp in terms of like, will you meet both the draft pick compensation and then you have to give a new contract as well. But, you know, when you get to draft weekend, it's like, all right, is someone going to blink? You know, if the Vikings don't trade him now, when are they going to trade him? If the Vikings don't trade him now, are they going to redo his deal? Because he doesn't want to play under his current deal. So I think that's going to be something to watch quite closely on Saturday, but, oh, I'm sorry, on Friday. But the Eagles are also down to five picks remaining in this draft. I know one of those third round picks will probably trade back and add a few. Maybe there's a Tanner McKee trade still in here that they can make. But I can't imagine the Eagles are going to come out of this draft with only five players. I got to think they're going to want some more volume. They've made a lot of trades here. So, yeah, if they were to trade for Granard, I think they would probably want some picks back as well.

Speaker 5:
[53:31] Jonathan Granard, Minnesota Vikings, Edge rusher, I think would be a terrific scheme fit. He had 24 and a half sacks in 2023 and 2024 combined. First with the Texans, then with the Vikings last year. Not as productive, three sacks, 12 quarterback hits, but has been a very, very good player. Would the Eagles send one of their day two picks to the Vikings to ZB's point? You know, you gotta, you then have to pay him. That's the whole thing. Why the Vikings are trading him is because he wants a new deal. So I would put him in kind of the Jalen Phillips tier, I would say of Edge rusher there, where I think he would come in, he would play for you right away and he would do a really good job. The question is, what is that worth to you in terms of draft compensation and what you're willing to pay? So that's something to keep an eye on. Day two, offensive lineman, you're right, still is a big one. You know, I had Markel Bell, I think we both had on our day two potential targets, the Miami offensive tackle. So I think that's a name to keep an eye on. Caleb Tiernan, was he the Northwestern guy? Northwestern, that's what I thought. Caleb Tiernan is another offensive lineman. Maybe they take a look at on day two, you had Travis Burke, who was Memphis. Memphis, the Memphis offensive tackle. So maybe he's a guy they look at. Day two, I think certainly offensive line is an area they will address. Day two, now wide receiver is not an area they're going to address on day two. And then Edge is the other one. Our guy denied Dennis Sutton. Everyone's guy denied Dennis Sutton is also available there as well. So those are some names to keep an eye on. Day two of the draft. All right, let's finish with a little, you know, Cliff just says this is how you know Cliff is a grinder. Here, CP, it's 226. The average producer would say, look guys, you've been going on for 50 minutes. And we don't need to hear denied Dennis Sutton. Now let's wrap this up. I got to produce this bad boy. I got to get it up. I'm trying to get some sleep. I'm waking up. I'm getting a pump in. You know what I mean? I got to do an NBA show probably in like six hours. I already did an NBA show. I got this call. But Cliffy too drops in the chat. You know what he says at 226 in the morning? He says, quick Sixers flyers? Oh yeah.

Speaker 4:
[56:00] I said to nobody to show though. Yeah, because I didn't want to. Zach, he was making your point. Yeah, Zach, he was making your point. I didn't want to put the door up.

Speaker 6:
[56:06] Oh yeah, no worries. Yeah. I didn't get to see any of the NBA games tonight. So I actually don't know any of the scores.

Speaker 7:
[56:12] I was just checking the scores.

Speaker 4:
[56:13] Actually, the Knicks-Hawks game was crazy. And then the Timberwolves-Nuggets game is kind of a blowout. Aaron Gordon, late scratch. So that kind of threw the Nuggets off.

Speaker 5:
[56:20] T-Wolves won? Okay.

Speaker 4:
[56:21] Yeah, the T-Wolves won big.

Speaker 5:
[56:23] We didn't win big, but they had the lead over here. Zee B, just check the scoreboard link, okay? 227.

Speaker 7:
[56:27] We're not doing T-Wolves.

Speaker 4:
[56:29] Oh, and the Raptors won the game in Toronto, too, as well.

Speaker 7:
[56:33] Nice.

Speaker 4:
[56:34] Okay. They got motivated by Drake with the Iceman.

Speaker 5:
[56:38] Next, you're going to want to do a Michael Carter segment at 3 a.m. or something. Listen. All right, so let's start with the Sixers because they play Friday night. Fantastic win.

Speaker 4:
[56:52] Wasn't it?

Speaker 5:
[56:53] Very exciting. Yeah. I was very excited.

Speaker 6:
[56:55] Are you eating crow yet? Are you eating crow?

Speaker 5:
[56:58] About what?

Speaker 7:
[56:59] What are you talking about?

Speaker 6:
[57:01] You were so pessimistic.

Speaker 4:
[57:02] I was.

Speaker 6:
[57:03] You were so pessimistic.

Speaker 4:
[57:06] I was way more pessimistic than Sheil. Sheil actually, if anything, Sheil was more like, I want to see VJ. I want to see the guys. Thank you.

Speaker 7:
[57:14] You're ready to fire Maury.

Speaker 4:
[57:16] I was the one.

Speaker 6:
[57:16] What's this guy done?

Speaker 4:
[57:18] I was the one who was more so pessimistic. I was just like, all right, man, you're going to get your one game. You're going to come back home, gentleman sweep. You're going to go at the boss and get the gentleman sweep, get swept out of that building. But Sheil, I'll be fair to you. Yeah, you're the one who just said, I just want to see VJ.

Speaker 5:
[57:33] I want to see Maxey in the playoffs because we already saw him last year and it was amazing at the Garden. And I said, I want to see how VJ looks like in this environment with the playoff intensity.

Speaker 4:
[57:44] And boy, did he step up. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5:
[57:45] All my guy did was 30 and 10 with a wink. I mean, unbelievable.

Speaker 4:
[57:49] What is it? Youngest player to do that?

Speaker 5:
[57:51] Youngest player ever. 30 and 10 beat Magic Johnson. I mean, he was incredible. I mean, he had judge and it wasn't just the scoring, the rebounding, it was the loose balls.

Speaker 7:
[58:01] It was the energy, the defense.

Speaker 4:
[58:04] He does so many things. He does so many things that don't show up on the statue. It's the effort. It's the dog mentality. It's the little things, man.

Speaker 5:
[58:12] Play through an injury too, by the way.

Speaker 4:
[58:14] Yeah, it's perfect for the Sixers, bro. Like, I love that the Sixers have a guy like this. Only they had a good backup guy. Never mind. It's just...

Speaker 6:
[58:22] But, no, you know what, though, to that point, I vividly remember the Hawks series back...

Speaker 4:
[58:32] In 21.

Speaker 6:
[58:33] Yeah. And Tyrese Maxey, let's just say, he just looked like he belonged, right? Like, the moment wasn't too big for him. And that's kind of how it looked like with Vijay. He just looked like he belonged out there. And if you look like you belong in a playoff game against the Boston Celtics in the Garden, like that, that speaks volumes.

Speaker 5:
[58:53] I mean, he was... Yeah. Because I'll be honest, I'm watching the game and he's had the lead and the Celtics are chipping away, chipping away. And when it gets to two in the fourth quarter, I'm like, they're not winning this game. It'll be like a nice little, all right, they kept it competitive, but they're going to end up losing. And then Vijay at a three and then Maxey, those back to back possessions, screen and roll. That's all. That's all.

Speaker 7:
[59:17] I know Nick, he made, he made somebody touch Earth.

Speaker 5:
[59:20] Just, you know, get, get, get their big men as Handsome Rich pointed out in his wonderful Broadstreet Bullets newsletter. Just get the Celtics bigs, pick and roll. They're going to drop and shoot threes. Remember, Darrell, don't forget, you were the three guy. Let's, let's, let's shoot a lot of threes. Let's lead into the variance. Maybe you get hot, maybe they don't and maybe you want to came.

Speaker 4:
[59:40] So ironically, it sounds like she's going 13 for 50 from three to as well.

Speaker 5:
[59:44] I know.

Speaker 4:
[59:45] Yes, a bunch of a bunch of wide open miscellaneous to them for their part. But like I would have thought Missoula would have been like, hey, maybe we should probably stop doing this.

Speaker 7:
[59:54] Stopped like shoot more. Oh, drop. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[59:57] Because like the thing is, Maxie could kill you either way if he goes downhill into the big anyway, or if he just stops and pops. So I'm like, why would you, what's the strategy here? Like you just go, if you ever look, if you look at some of the cut ups of the plays that Maxie got off the pick and roll with, there was nobody his vicinity once whoever got what is under the basket. Yeah. Like once he wants whoever is covering him, that got screened by Drummond or whoever, they just got wiped out of the play completely and then Maxie just had free rein to do whatever he wanted. So I don't expect that in game three, but it's going to be fun, man. Seven and a half point dogs. We'll see.

Speaker 5:
[60:28] Cliff, on our group chat was ZB and Bunz was on that. That's the most I've ever seen ZB use like exclamation points and tax. I don't know if he thought he was rubbing it in and you guys didn't believe I believe it. I don't know if he was just excited or what it was. I've never seen that type of excitement from ZB via the text message ZB.

Speaker 4:
[60:48] I was about to say ZB, what made you get so excited?

Speaker 5:
[60:50] Yeah, you were.

Speaker 4:
[60:52] You know what I can celebrate about those moments though, that playoff moment against Bust. Just like the wink that Vijay had in the max when he crossed up. I don't know who he crossed up, but whoever the young bull was, that he crossed up and he flexed on them. And then he got the and one on ten. I love moments like that where you can go into the opposing arena, especially arena like Bust and just shut the whole crowd up. That's so dope to me. When Max he hit that three versus Nicks a couple of years back, and then that whole entire crowd just went dead silent. He's just going crazy. I love moments like that. Now, if only they could just win the series, that would just be dope. That would be even better.

Speaker 6:
[61:27] Look, I don't believe they're going to win the series, but I thought there was some overreaction to game one. You lose by 20, you lose by two, it counts the same. The resilience that took the way they played, yeah, I think there was a lot of skepticism about the Sixers. I think there's a lot of negativity about the Sixers compared to the fact that they played this year without a lot of air. Paul George was suspended, Joel Embiid didn't play a lot. They're the seven seed. DJ.

Speaker 5:
[62:07] Sometimes I do not understand how your mind operates. There's negativity around the Sixers because the guy who never plays didn't play, and the other guy had sub-drugged something illegal where he got suspended.

Speaker 7:
[62:23] What do you mean?

Speaker 6:
[62:24] I'm saying the fact that they still made, like last year, for instance, all this stuff happened and they just went in the tank. They just went in the tank. This year, they're a playoff team. They win the play-in-game.

Speaker 4:
[62:43] I mean, also purposefully tank-lessure, Zach, like it wasn't like...

Speaker 6:
[62:47] Well, not at the beginning of the year. Not at the beginning, yeah, but when things started to go awry and by the deadline, they were just like, let's get this pick. And I just think, like, you know, I was talking to Reed about it. When you're on the road, all you want to do is split, right? You split. They split on the road. They're not going to win the series, but they're making it a series. Like, they're, you know, if you're a Boston fan, you're sweating a bit. You're like, I don't know, Friday. You're like, I don't think they are.

Speaker 4:
[63:21] Are you?

Speaker 6:
[63:22] I'll tell you what.

Speaker 4:
[63:23] Or do you say, all right, we'll play. Okay, all right.

Speaker 6:
[63:26] So I'm going Sunday. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 4:
[63:28] You won't be in the building.

Speaker 6:
[63:28] I'm not going to be there Friday. I mean, tomorrow night or tonight, rather, I'll be in the draft. I actually won't even get to watch the Sixers tonight, but Sunday, I am going to be in every possession. And yeah, we'll see. Maybe it's 2-2 and you never know what will happen.

Speaker 5:
[63:48] 2-2 would be incredible.

Speaker 4:
[63:49] Also, Joellen B, doubtful. Doubtful, not out.

Speaker 6:
[63:53] You got Willis Reed back. Yeah, you got Willis Reed coming out there.

Speaker 4:
[63:58] Doubtful, yeah, just doubtful. Not out, doubtful.

Speaker 6:
[64:01] Coming back from appendicitis.

Speaker 5:
[64:03] Yeah. I want to see Edgecom and Maxey again. It's 1-1, you're at home. Let's see, do it again. So that was fun to watch. And then the fly guys, I mean, my... I mean, I am able to hold small talk conversations about the Flyers now. Like, you know, you go get a coffee, you see the, oh, and tip it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I know what you're talking about. That was sick. I don't know how he did that. Man, oh, and tip it. It's like, oh, my Marteau. And I'm like, actually, you know, something's come over me. I got the t-shirt. I did the Eagles draft video with the Flyers t-shirt on. I've never seen so much engagement.

Speaker 7:
[64:48] Cliff, I mean, this must be what it feels like to be fliered up, I think.

Speaker 4:
[64:52] This is so fun. I love it. I love that everybody's...

Speaker 5:
[64:55] Now you had the Eagles screwing the Steelers over. What a week for Philly over Pittsburgh this week. It's not over yet, but yeah.

Speaker 4:
[65:03] This is fun, man. This is really fun just to see them. But bro, that arena looked crazy, too. That environment. Yeah. Just like watching on TV. It looked absolutely nuts in there. I mean, look, we've been waiting to see Flyers play off hockey for such a long time and an affordable, formidable team. And then going over to Pittsburgh, obviously, your arch rival. They've just been bullying the Penguins this whole entire series. And that's just so fun to watch. So, you know, I love seeing this on the Flyers. Four dudes scored their first playoff goal in that game. Like that is absolutely insanity, bro. I can, Vladar, when you said standing on his head.

Speaker 5:
[65:38] And playing through the injuries. I was like, no, he can't be out.

Speaker 4:
[65:43] I thought he was, it looked like he almost broke his arm when that play.

Speaker 5:
[65:45] Yeah, I know.

Speaker 4:
[65:45] That play looked kind of dirty to actually low key.

Speaker 5:
[65:48] But I don't know what's dirty and what's not in hockey. Like Leela's watching with me. I'm trying to explain like, no, they're actually allowed to drop their gloves and just like punch each other.

Speaker 4:
[65:56] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[65:56] And the ref.

Speaker 4:
[65:57] But that's not dirty though, cause that's like respect.

Speaker 5:
[65:58] I understand, but it's a very hard sport to explain to someone. And you know what I like to see, B? I like jumping into a sport where I know nothing about the nuances of it. Where I'm just like, all right, they got a score and they got to stop them from scoring. And they got to nail them, check them against the boards. And all right, hey, that guy's being annoying. Go get him. I think it's great. Fantastic. I don't need to be doing like all 22 and EPA and all that. It's much more fun to be a fan like that. Now I know why people probably don't like to listen to my podcast.

Speaker 6:
[66:29] And Aki, you probably people like to listen to your podcast.

Speaker 4:
[66:32] Yeah, that's it. Don't get that up. But in Aki, all you really need is a couple launches, power play, goalie being good. And if you got one or two dogs that can score on a wing or a center, that's really kind of about it.

Speaker 6:
[66:43] You know, it's funny you said, that's how I am with golf. I don't know anything about golf, but invariably you'll be somewhere on a Sunday, it'll be the last round of the US Open or the Masters or whatever. And you're like, oh man, look at that putt, right? I have no idea the degree of difficulty on the putt. It's just like, if I'm at the mini golf course, that's a pretty hard putt to hit. Yeah, and people get like that with the World Cup, too. I'm actually real into the World Cup, but people get like that, too, where it's like, yeah, just pick a team, you don't know the players. I'll leave the Phillies out of this conversation now, because I had that game on today. This is, yes. It was a dead game. Everything that they needed to happen, happened. The Cubs had the errors, Garcia comes off the bench.

Speaker 4:
[67:32] I know it's early.

Speaker 6:
[67:32] He hits home run, and they still lose.

Speaker 4:
[67:34] I know it's early, but we might be way off on that 90, yo. Oh, man, that's gone. I'm talking way off, though. Yeah, I'm talking way off.

Speaker 5:
[67:45] The worst team in Major Leagues right now.

Speaker 4:
[67:47] Yeah, this is ugly. This is getting ugly fast.

Speaker 5:
[67:48] They have the worst record.

Speaker 6:
[67:51] Then Mac Gelp had that detail in his story. Did you see the detail in Gelp's story today?

Speaker 4:
[67:56] What did you say?

Speaker 5:
[67:57] The lefty thing?

Speaker 6:
[67:58] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[67:59] Tell people about this.

Speaker 4:
[68:00] What's the story?

Speaker 5:
[68:01] I need lefty's take on this, but we need to get this.

Speaker 7:
[68:04] This was crazy, Zach.

Speaker 6:
[68:06] The reason they can't hit lefties is they don't have anyone to throw batting practice lefty. I guess Kevin Long did it, but he had something going on with his arm and then they don't have other. You can't find.

Speaker 4:
[68:22] Well, you can't find nobody on the street that can just throw the left hand.

Speaker 7:
[68:25] All left-handed. You have, you have. This will be like Vince Papale, come to Sister's Back Park.

Speaker 6:
[68:32] You have a AAA club, a AA club, a high A club, a low A club, like you can't find anybody in your system. You can't pull someone in. A bullpen go, you can't find anyone to throw lefty batting practice. Like that's, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[68:50] I was at the Blue Rocks as I'll kidnap somebody from the Blue Rocks.

Speaker 7:
[68:54] I'll kidnap some lefty.

Speaker 4:
[68:55] Wait, but my thing is, even if you use the like, what does that matter if you use the machine drawing?

Speaker 6:
[69:00] No, you got to see the ball come out of the hand.

Speaker 4:
[69:02] I mean, oh man.

Speaker 7:
[69:05] It was a crazy detail that had me very nervous about the future.

Speaker 4:
[69:09] That sounds like something he was fed by somebody on the team. That sounds like a poor, poor, poor excuse for how long.

Speaker 6:
[69:14] Yeah, that's a tough one there.

Speaker 5:
[69:15] Yeah, minus 51 run differential.

Speaker 4:
[69:18] Yo, do they have any updated odds on their win total?

Speaker 5:
[69:20] Dude, that's 27 runs worse than any other team in the National League, including the New York Mets. That's crazy.

Speaker 4:
[69:28] Hey, Sheil, over under 15th in the league in scoring this season.

Speaker 5:
[69:31] I know. Yeah, Cliff said it right. Listen, it might be it might be a summer where I'm going to pursue some other interests with the way.

Speaker 4:
[69:39] I might be back to the dog days, bro. This might be back to that 2013 or whatever it was. It might be. Let's see.

Speaker 5:
[69:48] I felt like today when Garcia hit the home run, I'm like, all right, let's flip. Come on, this can be a win that flips it. I don't need them to win the division. I'm not even thinking division anymore. Just like baseball changed the playoff format where it's like, all right, you can be mediocre and compete for a wild card spot. You can have bad stretches. But this is quite bad. This has me quite nervous about the rest of the summer. All right, ZB let out a yawn. Sorry, sorry. 2.41. No, it's a long weekend. We can't, you know.

Speaker 4:
[70:17] ZB, do the Sixers cover tomorrow, seven and a half?

Speaker 7:
[70:20] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[70:21] Yeah. That's a big number.

Speaker 7:
[70:23] Sixers win another game this series.

Speaker 4:
[70:24] Yeah, do they win?

Speaker 5:
[70:26] Another, I just need another game this series. Does it go fast?

Speaker 6:
[70:28] Southlicks and Six. Sixers win one more game.

Speaker 5:
[70:30] Southlicks and Six.

Speaker 4:
[70:31] I like, which game? Can you call it?

Speaker 6:
[70:34] Game four.

Speaker 5:
[70:36] Because he's going, see? I hate to say that that would be a victory, but yeah, listen, that would be respectable. If they can win one more, losing six, that would be respectable. But who knows? Maybe I should have higher expectations and say, get greedy, go win Friday night, and then put the pressure on them and see what happens. That's my official stance. Go do that. The Fly Guys, close in and out.

Speaker 4:
[71:01] Let's get the brooms out, baby.

Speaker 5:
[71:02] Get the brooms out.

Speaker 4:
[71:04] Get the brooms out. Sweep the trash. I'll send them back to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 5:
[71:07] All right. There you go. Thank you to Ace Producer, Cliff Augustin. Thank you to Zach Berman of The Athletic. Check out all this coverage throughout the weekend. I'm going to be back Friday night. I'm going to be back Saturday night. BLG joining me for both those episodes. Then we'll do Sean Syed during the week with the film review. Then we'll do CB back with the CB3, things he's learned during the week. Then we'll mix in some Flyers, Phillies, Sixers. Who knows what else? Thanks to everybody. Oh, by the way, sorry, last thing. We have hit the thresholds for the Instagram, for the smoothie. Now, I'm going to wait till things settle down because I don't even got a lot going on now, but thank you to everyone who has followed. Continue to follow. ZBerm, what's your Instagram?

Speaker 6:
[71:53] Z underscore Berman.

Speaker 5:
[71:55] Z underscore Berman.

Speaker 6:
[71:57] And then on TikTok, I am Z underscore Berm.

Speaker 5:
[72:02] Listen, my Flyers t-shirt Eagles draft analysis was my most popular TikTok video I've ever done. I don't know. I'm going to have to break out the Flyers t-shirt once again. So check us out there. We'll be doing some instant analysis on those accounts before we start the pod. All right. Thanks to everyone for listening. Talk to you next time on The Ringers Philly Special. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. Call 1-877-770-7867.