transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:49] Welcome to Giants Nation. I'm your host, Bobby Skinner, here with my co-host, Football Grump and the Giants have drafted Ohio State linebacker Arvell Reese and Miami guard Francis Mauigoa. Grump, they got two guys who are 20 years old out of the seven available in the class. They got number two and number five on the consensus board, number one and number four for the Giants, according to them in their press conference afterwards. A freak athlete linebacker and Francis Mauigoa, who I was considering, I mocked to the Giants when they only had one first round pick. How are you? How are you feeling?

Speaker 2:
[01:25] It's so crazy that the draft is here right now. We're doing it and it's happening because there's so much prep. But to come away with this for months of just like not even entertaining the idea of Arvell race being available for the Giants at five, and then that's just how we fell. We were having this discussion on the draft livestream. This is like the Jets take Arvell Reese or David Bailey. There's this whole war going on, and then lo and behold, that specific little side conversation we're having just set the tone for our own conversation with Arvell Reese and Francis Mauigoa. But I feel good, man. The Giants are getting big men here. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:06] So I got a message earlier in the day, Bay, and like, hey, if Reese or Jeremiah Love is there, they're running to turn the card in for those two. I was like, man, we certainly did our work on Reese. But we really never considered Reese much as an option for the Giants because we just thought that he wasn't going to be available for them as Grump does some smelling salts in the background. I'm going to do that when it's your turn to talk, by the way. Thank you for inspiring me. But again, he's an athletic freak. And then Francis Mauigoa, like I said before, they're both 20 years old. There's seven players in the draft, 20, so they get two young guys. Francis Mauigoa, I've been kind of fighting the fight on that. Like, hey, he's a guard. I understand you see Tackle next to his position. I understand there's a true guard and Vega Iwane in the draft. This is the best offensive lineman in the draft. He did go after Spencer Fano, but I like Francis Mauigoa quite a bit better than Spencer Fano. Although I did warm up to him a little bit watching more film. So taking the trenches serious and then getting Arvell Reese as a freak athlete, you're going to have to develop him. There is a tweener. They're going to play him at Linebacker, which I like that they flat out said that. I really didn't want to hear them say, oh, he's just going to be everything. We're going to have him do everything. Obviously, he's going to rush the passer, but I like that they're letting him focus at Linebacker. So we'll get into it here in a second. First, this episode was brought to you by some special people. We got Amore. When the winning Arvell Reese hits your eye like a big piece of pie, that's Amore. We just got Mike, some people name their kids Mike. We got Derek Harwood. He plays hard on the hardwood, Harwood and then Marco D and the D stands for these draft picks are really great. Grump, who are these special people?

Speaker 2:
[03:51] These special people went to patreon.com/giantsnation, where they could support us and they are the lifeblood of this channel so they signed up for one of the two tiers available, where they can watch live episodes and recordings, the podcast episodes just like this one as they're being recorded. They also get special access to weekly game tape breakdowns that Bobby does during the NFL season. There's also all kinds of other really fun stuff that's involved. There's a monthly free t-shirt raffle, Jordan Ronan's book. There's special codes for the merch store for, we have draft hoodie out there, we have draft one-year or sorry, the show's one-year anniversary as well. So most importantly, they were glad that they did.

Speaker 1:
[04:38] I just got some smelling salts in. Let's go. All right. So is there anything you want to say before we start talking about, because we'll talk about individual about Arvell Reese and then individually about Francis Mauigoa. Which by the way, I've gotten very used to two first round picks in these recaps. You know, three out of the last five years, we've been recapping two different players where when they draft one player, it's like, all right, let's talk about him as a player. Like you hit it from every different angle. Now we just get to not have to force conversation. So like I said, the board fell to them about exactly as the way they want. Obviously they passed on Caleb Downs, which means like Caleb Downs wasn't higher on the board for them than Arvell Reese and Francis Mauigoa and we could talk about that a little bit. But let's talk with Arvell Reese. He is a six foot four, 241 pound linebacker slash edge, right? Number two on the consensus board, number one for linebackers. He is so quick and athletic. I mean, he ran a four, four, six, right? Like think about we have someone playing linebacker and like he would test pretty good for a wide receiver. Like Cardinal Tate was a wide receiver, he went fourth overall. He ran a four, five in the 40 time. You saw him really, you have his best plays, Ohio State as a pass rusher, but he plays extremely violent. Like when he's playing on fire, he's a violent player who brings pop. We'll talk about the individuals, you know, like needs to get better at whatever. He's got to find a home, right? That's the main thing grump, because he is kind of like if you don't know what position, most people viewed him as an edge, the Giants are putting him at linebacker. And they even specifically said Will Linebacker, which I like because it gives him ability to run and chase. There's going to be things he needs to grow on, but this is undoubtedly like the best athlete in the draft, right?

Speaker 2:
[06:22] There's a lot that can be said about Arvell Reese. Let's stay with the positive first before what he needs to work on and where he needs to find his home. This is one of two people that I had in an A plus grade, which is the highest grade athlete, top five pick, and it was him and Caleb Bounds. There is definitely some tweener body type for him if you're going to classify him as the edge. Now, the Giants went ahead and said, you know, John Harbrow Strip said, we think he's a versatile player. He's going to be playing inside linebacker for us. He'll be playing will. Our defense itself is flexible and at times is positionless, or you know, it's kind of how he said it. So they are going to use him in multiple ways, but his base position will be that inside linebacker position. And like you said, putting him next to a veteran, like Tremaine Edmonds, who's going to take on blocks very, very well allows him to run and chase. And you know, we'll get into the things he doesn't do very well, but because he kind of moved around and had so many responsibilities at Ohio State, he does have like a varied ability, pretty good in a lot of different areas. So it's like in coverage, pretty good. There's evidence of him doing really good stuff. He wasn't asked to do it a lot though. As a blitzer, obviously he's a good edge rusher. So as a blitzer, he can be affected from multiple different spots. They would rush him from A gap, B gap. And John Harbaugh said this too. He's going to rush from the A gap, B gap and C gap. We're going to move him around a little bit as a rusher. I think that he's a really good tackler. I think that he closes well. The coverage stuff, it's rudimentary, but it's good. Like he understands his responsibilities. There's good evidence in the Texas game of him tempoing into a backpedal, identifying his guy, triggering down on it, making a tackle. I think that he broke up the pass when he made the tackle too. So the footwork wasn't very smooth or fluid, but he knew exactly what he needed to do and he did it. There's good evidence of his vision in the Michigan game and reading a screen before it happens. He sees the running back leaking out, he triggers on it. He made it complete the pass and it was for a loss of two yards because he closed in on it really, really well. There is evidence of him doing everything he needs to do. It's a matter of putting it all together.

Speaker 1:
[08:23] Yeah. So if going through his positives and like my top, like if you just like, hey, just attributes, his speed and quickness, right? Like that's the top thing. But what I like the most about him and that gives me hope in him is the fact that how violent he is with his hands can knock back offense alignment. And again, there's going to be comparisons to other players like Isaiah Simmons and stuff. I think the issue with Isaiah Simmons was like he didn't take on blocks, he dipped further, like he never played with power. And Reese does that, right? Like when he's got his hands going, he knocks back offense alignment, whether it's a defensive end setting the edge or coming from that stack linebacker. If you give him a spot to shoot gaps, he's going to create deep tackle for loss, like not just a one yard loss. He's got the ability to get a three yard, four yard loss on a basic run when every gap is accounted for. I thought he was strong taking on offense alignment in the run game. He only has a 6% missed tackle rate in 2025. His ability to track guys, he brings them down as well. So for me, it's unlocking, like I said, that violence in a more efficient way, where from stack linebacker, like I guess this is kind of the thing with Arvell Reese, is what makes him in the middle, is that his best plays in college were on the edge. Like that's where his best plays were. But in the NFL, he would be 16th percentile for arm length and fourth percentile for weight for edge, right? He would be an outlier. At linebacker, he's not an outlier, right? He's good linebackers size, right? 6'4, 241 pounds, sure, he could be 248 pounds. That's really good linebacker size. That's where the Giants plan to play him early. Like you said, I like the idea of putting him next to Tremaine Edmonds, run and chase. I don't love it behind this defensive tackle group at the moment, but I like that, right? Of course, you're going to let him do other things in pass rush. But having that home base position and that being linebacker, that's what I wanted. I didn't want them to come and say, I didn't want them to put too much on his plate. Let him find a home base position on third down. You let them rush the passer and do some different things, do some stunts, but let him get a home base position, and I'm happy that is linebacker.

Speaker 2:
[10:43] Yeah, absolutely. For both of these guys, I'm going to talk about this in different ways, but I'm glad that there was a clear-cut, agreed upon, understood plan by the press conference. They knew what they were doing if these guys fell to them, and they said multiple times, John Arbaugh and Joe Shane, in the press conference, that they ran so many different mock drafts, and these guys were not really available at these spots in any of them. So they understood the full draft mock-up and what they wanted to do with Arvell Reese, and of course, that's what they're supposed to do. In terms of some of the other things, with Arvell Reese, putting him next to Tremate Edmonds and letting him learn and grow in the position and just play linebacker, and of course, move him around, do a couple different things, have some sub-packages for him, where he can shine or disguise what he's doing in blitz or something like that.

Speaker 1:
[11:31] But yeah, you'd be wasting me if you didn't let him rush the passer.

Speaker 2:
[11:34] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[11:35] It'd be a good chunk of plays in the game.

Speaker 2:
[11:38] What I think you really see the difference with Arvell Reese is when he is confident in what he's doing and instinctual on the field, and when he is trying to read what's happening on the field. And when he's trying to read what's on the field, that's when blockers get to the second level and they get hands on him. And he can shed them, but it takes him too long. At that point, it's too late, guys get by him. When he's just reacting, that's when he explodes into the chest of blockers. That's what all the violence that Bobby is talking about, knocking guys off of their base and getting by them. It's just instinct and understanding. If he can just get the gap between the vision and reaction to close, you get that player all the time.

Speaker 1:
[12:21] And that is where he's going to have to grow. Again, we're viewing him as a linebacker because that's the way the Giants view him. If the Giants can have Abdul Carter and Brian Burns, we'd be talking about him a lot more as an edge. That's where he's going to need to grow to figure this out in the NFL. And he's got some ways to go. Because like you said, when I put together the film Breakdown Tomorrow, I'm going to show you from Stack Linebacker, him having awesome plays taking on offensive linemen. But I think there is just too much reading and not enough reacting. And I hope the Giants kind of give him a little bit of like a go, go, win in doubt, go, right? If you're going to mess up, mess up at 100 miles per hour. Because when I watched, I saw too often where guys were just able, offensive linemen were just kind of able to work up to the second level and pick them up. And that's with the Ohio State run defense that is a well-oiled machine. And so he would take those blocks on, and he would eventually get a good move. But like you said, it was kind of like a thought process, like stack, rip through that. Whereas like you got to be quick in doing that stuff, or you're just going to get a bunch of five yard run tackles and rack those up, because he's just not a great processor from stack linebacker yet. And he didn't play as instinctual as I would have hoped from that position. So that would be like the early on is like, just go, go. He can't play like that forever. You're going to have to do it. But we've also seen John Harbaugh, like Patrick Queen, right? Patrick Queen is not the athlete of Arvell Reese, but he's a pretty damn good athlete. And he struggled. And then they put him next to Roekwon Smith and kind of gave him a, hey, just go, right? We're going to put you in a line of scrimmage as well too. And then you saw Patrick Queen get an all pro. Now we want Arvell Reese to be better than Patrick Queen. But like, that's kind of the plan for him is like, don't put so much on his plate early on. Just go, move forward. We're going to bring you in and do some pass rush stuff. And then eventually get to a point where you are processing and reading offensive linemen and run game and pass cover stuff well.

Speaker 2:
[14:29] I think a lot of stuff has been made of his GPA from high school to college as well, because we're talking about learning the position, right? And he had almost an unthinkable high school GPA. It was so low. Where I come away with that without knowing... 3.4 at Ohio State, .4 in high school..4 is not knowing things..4 is simply not trying. That's like an impossible GPA.

Speaker 1:
[14:56] I hung out with a lot of.4 kids in the day. But they didn't go to 3.4 and college, so that's where the hope is.

Speaker 2:
[15:04] The fact that he can make that transition is like, okay, when he applies himself, this is what you get out of it. I'm not saying that he's a rocket scientist or anything like that. People are making a lot out of that. I view that jump as like, that's what happens when he applies himself, because getting.4, that's like, I didn't do the assignment and I'm not going to. But what I will say to his intelligence and how it translates to the New York Giants and Denaard Wilson, Ohio State played a very varied defense that was moving around a lot and there was a ton of communication. Now granted, very talented players from Ohio State in this draft, Caleb Down, Sonny Stiles, I could go on and on. These guys were all very, very communicative and they were moving around. So I do not view this guy as a dummy. I think that he's going to pick it up and it's going to be a complicated defense if he's going to be part of the coverage at all, which he will be. So it's just going to be about learning for him in year one and just go. Just go, we'll take it a step at a time.

Speaker 1:
[16:00] Now, with the pass rush stuff though, I mean, that's where his best film is in college. That's just the reality. Like we said, if they're just playing a full-time management, you wonder how it works because like I said, fourth percentile for weight and 16th percentile for arm length. Now, granted, he didn't play like that in college. That's where you saw him play his strongest because it wasn't as much thinking. It was like, hey, that offensive tackle is trying to block you, go and squeeze him down and try and rip. And then as a pass rusher, he doesn't have a great pass rush plan. But whenever he did activate something out of his pass rush bag, man, he just really could make guys look silly. And he plays with strength, which I think is so important for guys that are fast. And he's like, add a strength. In fact, it's something we said last year on this episode. I was like, Abdul Carter, you are so quick, you're so bendy. Add some strength to your game, not because you're going to be a bull rush guy, but it's going to help set you up for the other stuff. That's what Reese does. And I think it does set him up for that. Now, I thought he did a good job holding the edge, right? Like David Bailey, who went second overall. What David Bailey hold the edge? He just does not do that. Or Arvell Reese does that. I even found two plays of him versus Francis Mauigoa and he did a solid job on one play. I wish there was enough plays for a film breakdown. So you're going to use him in some of these ash rush things. I think it will be calculated and not just games of him playing there. Or maybe we're wrong and the Giants are kind of leading us on a little bit and they plan him to be just rushing the passer all the time.

Speaker 2:
[17:36] I mean, if the Giants are lying to us, what are we supposed to do? I don't know what to say or do about that, but I guess we'll see. It's going to depend on how the rest of the roster rounds out. Certainly things are going to be added to this defense before the start of the season.

Speaker 1:
[17:52] The other thing is, they have a dual card. Their best two players on defense are defensive. You can argue their best three players on defense are outside linebacker. We'll see if Kavon Thibodeau is on the roster by time our full draft recap on Monday. That's even a little added bone. That's a little almost like an extra push, like, hey, we don't need to do a bunch of edge stuff. Now, what you will do is you're going to line them up in the A-gap. And that's what we were talking about in the run game, where you said when there's less thinking and you're just taking on an offensive lineman, that's where you see the speed and the violence show up the most. Well, you put them just line up in the A-gap, you're going to see them be able to do that and pull offensive linemen and make them look silly. So they're just going to run stunts and stuff like that. So they're going to be creative. It'll be interesting to see how the Giants operate that stuff. They certainly have a ton of ability where all of those guys can go and rush, like Abdul Carter is still their best rusher if you line him up on the interior. Burns is their best on the edge right now. Then Arvell Reese is, he's going to be actually playing stack linebacker. But like I said, I like the fact that they're, I was very happy when they just said in the press conference, he's going to play linebacker, will linebacker next to Tremaine Edmonds. I was very happy when they did that. Give this guy a home, let him work on it. Maybe it doesn't work out and you end up switching to edge in a year and a half, right? Would hate that to be the path here. But what they can't do is just like, ah, we're going to play everything and you're going to work with this position coach and that position coach. No, let him get into the NFL and play one position for the most part.

Speaker 2:
[19:31] I agree. Yeah, you got to get him settled in one spot. If he eventually becomes a guy that you can move all over the field and you can throw the entire defensive playbook at and you can count on him to do whatever, then that's a wonderful outcome for you. But for year one, he needs to find a home and that's... I agree with the Giants putting him at home in linebacker. I know you said like his best plays are at edge, but the measurables, the percentiles, it doesn't really line up with him being an edge at the NFL level. So there are things that are clearly going to have to grow at linebacker. In terms of how I feel about this, I have mixed feelings about this being the pick, because we didn't see this coming. The draft falling, Mendoza to the Raiders, Bailey to the Jets, Love to the Cardinals, Tate to the Titans, we didn't see.

Speaker 1:
[20:15] Tate to the Titans was the wild card. I still can't believe that.

Speaker 2:
[20:20] You know what's funny? I found Dan Graziano was saying that the wide receiver was a real shot at four this morning, and I didn't see it till just now. But I'm torn because on one hand, I wanted to come out of this draft with two picks in the top 10 on guys that I was just like, no worries. Like these guys are bonafide, like they're just going to go and they're going to play. Maybe some guy has higher ceiling and we miss out on that, but I feel very rock solid that these guys are clean prospects. And Arvell Reese for me isn't that, right? Like this guy that we have to make sure that we have the right position, all that other stuff. But on the flip side, John Harbaugh and Joe Shane were asked, you know, where does he land in the draft? And they're like, should we divulge that? Arvell Reese was number one on our board. That's what they, so I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. Do I go with my gut and they didn't pick the safe guy, or do they literally pick the best guy on their board when he fell to them? How could I possibly criticize an organization for doing that?

Speaker 1:
[21:17] Yeah, that's what you want. Now, here's, now, but let's speak about the reality of Reese is he has the ability to be the best player in the draft. Easily, easily has that ability. There is a lot of risk with this pick. You know, there's risk with every pick in the NFL draft. There is a lot of, like, there's a chance, right? When a guy doesn't have one position, that makes you question it. And then, like you said, there is negatives in the film from Stack Linebacker. If you're just playing with edge, the negative is like, that's a crazy size outlier. And he's not a guy who has, like, the best bend in the world either. So you like those, you know, a guy like, a guy with that playing style size that had a little more bend, but again, great speed. Like, this is a, you know, a boomer bus draft pick. You know, there's, I just don't see, I don't see a middle ground where we're like, ah, he's a piece of pretty good player. Like, this is a guy who either turns into elite and we're thrilled or we're just really frustrated with. Like, there's a lot of risk with this pick. You know, I described him when we were looking, it's like, he might be like the player for me where I'm like, I just let somebody else draft him out of like, hey, great, can be elite, but I just have question marks of what we're gonna do. And off, you know, full, you know, fully candid. I love Caleb Downs. He's my number one player. And I would have preferred him, but hey, Reese has all the ability in the world. This is his draft night. We're gonna enjoy it. And you know, it's about going out on the field and proving it. Obviously, it'll probably be some rocky road in the very beginning, but you know, by the end of the year, we should, you know. Moose tracks. See you soon. You know, but you can't put them in a vanilla defense.

Speaker 2:
[22:57] You know, what's really funny is one thing that I haven't seen being talked about. This is the first New York Giants linebacker drafted in the top 10 in forever, right? Wasn't that like a talking point for like the last four years?

Speaker 1:
[23:07] Since Carl Banks.

Speaker 2:
[23:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:08] Because the outside linebackers don't officially count, so.

Speaker 2:
[23:11] No, but I haven't seen anybody talking about that.

Speaker 1:
[23:14] Last time the Giants drafted a linebacker first round, it worked out pretty good. So Arvell Reese will be telling us we don't know shit in about 30 years.

Speaker 2:
[23:24] What about the last time the Giants drafted a tackle from Miami?

Speaker 1:
[23:28] Don't say that. Dude, I love Francis Mauigoa and we're going to talk about him. We can joke because I love him. Look at his pinned tweet on Twitter. I've retweeted it.

Speaker 2:
[23:40] It's amazing.

Speaker 1:
[23:42] I've been following this guy since he was in high school. He's one of those rare players I've been following since he's been in high school. He hasn't really tweeted since then. What it is, if you remember Evan Neil draft pick, his pinned tweet was a box jump, crazy box jump. Evan Neil went to IMG Academy. Francis Mauigoa went to IMG Academy. His pinned tweet is literally him doing the same box jump and like, hey, Evan Neil, check this or whatever. Where are you at? Oh, no. Both, hey, a couple of IMG Academy tackles turn guard. But we're going to talk about Francis Mauigoa. But first, I'm a little thirsty. We've been talking a lot. I'm a little thirsty. Guess what? This episode is brought to you by Body Armor Sports Trink. Rewrite your routine and choose better with Body Armor. Body Armor is real hydration with electrolytes, coconut water, and no artificial dyes, flavors, or sweeteners. None with great tasting flavors like strawberry banana and my favorite, orange mango. Body Armor will level up your hydration and grab Body Armor Sports Trink today at your local grocery store. Body Armor, choose better. You'll be glad you did.

Speaker 2:
[24:59] You'll be glad you did.

Speaker 1:
[25:00] You'll be glad you did. Thank you, Body Armor, for making draft weekend happen for us. All right. Let's talk about Francis Mauigoa. First, you know, when he was asked about his message for Jackson D'ar, he said, I'll die for this shit, man. I'll die for you, man. Love that. Love that. Francis Mauigoa, offensive lineman out of Miami, 6'5, 329 pounds. He was number five on the consensus board, number one for offensive lineman, turns 21 in June. I do three mock drafts or four mock drafts per year. I do one in the summer, just to get a feel of the next class. I do one during the bye week. I do one on the 1st of April and then one on draft day. The 1st of April, I took Francis Mauigoa at fifth overall for the New York Giants over Caleb Downs. Now, if the Giants had just said pick five, I actually got myself back on the Caleb Downs boat. But they were one and two for me. And he is a guard, right? And I want to talk about that because there's always movement from tackle to guard. You watch him play and I'm like, that's a guy who can be an all-pro guard. He can be a good tackle. He's my number one tackle in the class, but he has the ability to be an all-pro guard. It feels like watching Elijah Verret Tucker all over again at USC. He's built like a good guard. And just to get this out of there before we start talking about his positives and negatives as a player. Tackle to guard is like a very common first-round thing, right? Graze Abel last year, Peter Skowronski, Tyler Smith, Zach Martin, Brandon Scherff, Graham Barton. It's very common. The only thing it's not more common than is true guards going in the first round and being bus. That's probably a little more common than the tackle to guard being a very good transition. So I'm excited about him. I like him as a player and we'll get into that. But what I love about drafting Francis Mauigoa is take the offensive line serious. This is something we talked about in December, Grump, was one of my worries of this team is like, they're going to look at this offensive line and say it's pretty good and not reinvest into it. Reinvest into this group. They re-signed Jermaine Illuminar. They go out and they get Francis Mauigoa to play guard. This is a long term play here, right? They don't have any other interior guys signed past this season. Andrew Thomas is in year seven and has injury issues. Jermaine Illuminar is going to be here for another couple of years. They need some young offensive alignment to build around, to try and build a great offensive line the way good teams do. You have to protect Jackson Dart and you want to run the ball. That starts on the interior offensive line for what the Giants need right now.

Speaker 2:
[27:42] Taking the offensive line serious is probably music to my ears. To be fair, in 2022, we drafted a tackle and an outside linebacker, and the tackle didn't pan out.

Speaker 1:
[27:54] You have to stop saying this stuff.

Speaker 2:
[27:57] I'm just saying, the pathway and the plan, I'm in agreement with. How the plan is executed, so far, I'm in agreement with. Arvell Reese, Francis Mauigoa, how it actually turns out, that is still to be seen. They've made the right moves thus far. It's up to John Harbaugh now and position coaches to get the most out of him, put him in the best place to succeed, et cetera, right? So, this is really, really interesting, because you were kind of the first one I saw, and there aren't a lot of people that were like, Francis Mauigoa should move inside to guard. This is where he can be elite. And, you know, he came up on the board for the Giants, Delaine went to the Chiefs, there's all kinds of trades, Stiles fell to the Commanders, Tyson went to the Saints, the Browns went and took Fano before him. Don't understand that.

Speaker 1:
[28:43] Thank you, Cleveland, thank you.

Speaker 2:
[28:44] Seriously, Sonny, Sonny, what was his name?

Speaker 1:
[28:48] I forget, it wasn't Jurgensen, that's a quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 2:
[28:52] No, that doesn't matter. I'm making a draft day joke. Anyway, I was just surprised that the Giants viewed him the same way as you. You know, with him sitting there on the board, I kind of thought, you know, if you view him as a tackle and you're not going to kick him inside, the Giants are, I don't want to say it's like irresponsible, but like you're, if you draft him and you just wait in behind your main, you either pay the Illumina or kick Illumina in, something's not right there. You didn't really handle that off season correctly because then you either paid Illumina too much money to kick inside and be not as good there, then he would be a tackle and then, or you drafted a guy to sit and wait behind a veteran that doesn't need to. So I just thought they were going to avoid Mauigoa entirely. I didn't think they were going to view him the same way that you did and that you convinced me to look at him the same way. So I'm floored. You know, like I said, like, I'm really, really glad that they had a plan for Arvell Reese or whatever. They have a plan for Francis Mauigoa, too. They came right out and said it. This wasn't, you know, veiled Brian Dable press conference where he says absolutely nothing. He won't even commit to who's the starting quarterback or, you know, whatever. They came right out. We're going to move him inside. He's going to play right guard for us. They just went right ahead and said it. So I mean, I don't know about you. I feel a lot better about the offensive line now. Like you said, taking it seriously, true hefty investments, and they're not done. The GVR stuff is still kind of kicking around out there as a possibility. They have some extra money now from the Dexter Lawrence trade off the books, so they can go out and get Kevin Zeitler is not all that unreasonable now. So before we actually get into Maui Noa as the player, the fact that they were able to get him and had a clear pathway for him to move inside to guard, they got Arvell Reese, they had a clear pathway, they want to put him at linebacker, I'm happy with the vision. They are not just picking good players, they're picking good players with a plan. There he is. There's the salt.

Speaker 1:
[30:48] I had to clear my nose out a little bit. Yeah, I was on an island on Francis Maui Noa. I hope the last player I was on an island for the Giants was Andrew Thomas. I'm hoping it goes similarly.

Speaker 2:
[31:03] Yeah, but this is different. You could totally plant your flag on this one. This is a true, that's like a GM move right there.

Speaker 1:
[31:09] I had him round one pick 10 for the mock draft. Every year on draft day, I tweet out my mock draft individually with clips. I got a little triggered about arguing. I like, dude, what do you mean? Why would I play a guy who I think is lesser because he's a true guard compared to a guy who's tackle I think would be an elite guard. Listen, I'm not so confident that I'm just like, I'm right, this guy's going to be a great guard no matter what. I'm right, you're wrong. He hasn't played a game in the NFL. But I am confident enough, believe in your evaluation when you write on them and stand on it. This is where I fell back on it with him moving to guard. I do have a little more questions in the run game, handling top defensive tackles and stuff on zone blocks. But the pass pro that he showed at tackle just showed me a guy who like, he's going to be a great pass protector at guard in the NFL. That should be a fairly clean transition to the inside the run game will see there are certainly things I love about the run game that excite me about him moving inside. But the pass pro, if that's what we end up with, and the guy we're asking a little more of the run game who is diverse and you can run any run scheme with them and he's just locking guys of a pass protection for Jackson Dart, I'm totally freaking happy with that. But let's talk about Francis Mauigoa as a player. I'll read my write up on him and then we'll go through there. Good offensive tackle prospect who could be a great guard prospect. Good athlete for the offensive tackle spot but great for guard spot. Strong base, upper body and leg drive but not a mauler. Great balance. Opens hips up on pass sets gradually. Will overset once connected leaving vulnerable to inside counters. Little passive with his bunch inviting pass rusher to start rep. Moments of lean and pass pass will get him on the corner. Good grip strength while extended. Works independent hands really well. Feel her hand to replace and get great placement. Fires in the run blocks with poise and urgency. I stress that because there's a lot of guys who just all out go crazy in the run game. They're leaning and they're all over the place. Then there's guys who are just too passive, where they just want to sustain the block and they don't get any movement. He finds the balance in there. Really great movement on doubles, combos, and down blocks, creates gaps. Needs to keep his pads down and more drive into single blocks. Has torquing power to pin out defense alignment. Has a good job in outside zone to get to spot and flip hips. Pulls with speed and authority, but misses kick out at times. May have some mental lapses with blitz and stunt pickup, and Adam has an A. The positives is, like I said, the footwork and speed will be great for the guard and pass, the spot and pass, bro. Maybe he doesn't end up being good, but his foot speed is not going to be a reason. I was like, oh man, this guy's just like, JMS, I really like JMS. I look back and I'm like, man, he just wasn't that strong or athletic. That's not the case with Maui Noah. He anchors and strains to take on power so well. The way he's able to just, when someone works power, just hold on to it. His hand usage was awesome last year. You want to know what I love about just more than his hand usage last year? How much growth there was. We looked at him last summer and that was my biggest issue. I was like, man, there's too much time where he's just not using his hands. He made real growth there. In the run game, there's going to be questions of how he handles top defensive tackles. But, he has the athlete and the strength to do everything. You want to run pin and pull and get on the outside, good. You want to run power and have him pull, good. You want to work a man scheme where you're double teaming and get to the linebacker, he can do that, good. You want to run outside zone where you got to get athletic and have flexible hips, he's got that. There's combo blocks are a work of art. I'm thrilled about this guy. Like I said, my big board for the Giants was Caleb Downs 1, Francis Mauigoa 2.

Speaker 2:
[35:02] Giants are going to be running to the right side of the offense this year. There's a mechanically fairly sound, naturally strong, ideal frame. The footwork is incredibly clean. That's not just like the foot speed, the lateral kick speed or anything like that. The footwork is good. You watch a bunch of these prospects and you see, if you really focus on their base, just how much the base moves around and how it changes from narrow to wide to strong. Throughout a whole set, this dude has very consistent base, very consistent base, really good anchor, good pad level, good leverage, exceptional leverage. Able to drive in the run game, especially on those combo blocks. Like you said, to him plus another guy is getting movement and he works off of it so quickly and so well. He's able to just slide right off and move to the next level.

Speaker 1:
[35:54] It's beautiful the way he works combo blocks, man. And that translates. So get some smell and salt in you, my man.

Speaker 2:
[36:03] No, I'm fighting back a sneeze. One of the things that I really, really like about him is you said some of the play strength can be a little bit, a little too much, allows guys to get into his chest. There is a mean streak to him. He's not a passive player. You know what I mean? He's not afraid to dominate, not afraid to bury opponents at times. He locks on and controls with violence as well. So I don't view him as a passive player or anything. It's more about the timing with the run game and the punches. In the run game, there are times where, when he's going up against better defensive tackles, that he starts to lean or push himself a little bit too much. But overall, I think that this is a mechanically sound player with very, very minor things that need to be touched up. Like you said, the hands and feet working independently is really, really advanced and good. That's usually the number one thing that has to get worked on at the next level. He's already passed that, or not passed that, he's made significant strides in that direction. So now it's more about the finer tuned things in there. Of course, hitting an NFL weight room, working with NFL guys in NFL strength conditioning and diet program.

Speaker 1:
[37:08] Yeah. I think that's going to be the, I think some early struggles for, and again, he's 20 years old, like 20 years old. I think when you're working zone blocks, which is when he's got more just one-on-one run blocks in the run game, I just handle like some guys are going to be quick and strong. If you fall behind by a second, that's going to lead to negative plays in the run game. That's like my biggest worry about him. A minor worry was when he pulls, he pulls with speed, and if he lands, he lands great. He had these random just whiffs. It didn't make any sense. They didn't pull him a ton in Miami, and maybe it's just, that's not something I'm actually worried about, but it was something that showed up on his film. So, and you did see times at tackle, which is different, but like in past pro where guys would, he would overset a little bit and guys would work lateral on him, and they were just able to get wins there. Like at tackle, he was not some shut down, zero pressure offensive tackle. Last year, he gave up two sacks, four QB hits and nine pressures. Obviously, those are really freaking good numbers, but they're not like a lot of top tackles that come out, looking at this, like one sack, one QB hit, seven pressures type of stuff. But the way he uses his hands, the athletic, I mean, I think it's going to translate to a great pass protecting guard in the running game, man. I think there's a lot of ability there. It's just about harnessing it and dealing with NFL defensive tackles.

Speaker 2:
[38:40] You touched on this earlier, and I want to touch on this with him and then also with Arvell Reese as well. He was asked about protecting for Jackson Dart, and he was very enthusiastic with his...

Speaker 1:
[38:53] I'd die for this shit, man.

Speaker 2:
[38:54] Yeah, I'll protect my ass off for you. I guarantee you that. And then they asked about what's going to be like blocking for Kam Scataboo, and he's like, I love running backs that run people over, man. I'm going to do you right. You know what I mean? There's a high character kid that understands his role and how important it is and where his role is with the team and what he's got to do. Arvell Reese, also impressed, people are going to laugh at this, but they asked him about being picked by the Giants. He's like, he has a big moment, he's really excited for me. I look over at my mom, you know, whatever, and they were like, did you shed any tears? Like, no, I don't shed no tears. I like that they're good character, tough guys. I'm into this. I like these guys. And also, when I asked directly about going to Francis Mauigoa with Caleb Downs sitting there on the board who went one pick later to division rival NFC East Dallas Cowboys, they said, John Harbaugh and Joe Shane just simply said, we stuck with our board. We had him higher.

Speaker 1:
[39:50] Which I'll be interested that, you know, we won't ever figure out, but it felt like they wanted to go offense and defense with their two picks. So I wonder, you know, if, you know, If that was a tiebreaker. Yeah, I don't know, but let's talk about, like, the situation with the team. Sure. I love this, man. Like, I've been begged, like, take this offensive line serious. And I know people don't want to hear, you know, you can get a guard here, you can get a guard there. I'm like, man, that's just not taking it serious and not really wanting to make that a great strength. You want to make it passable. And, you know, I look at Jackson Dart last year and some of the success he had. And I'm like, well, he didn't have that at Ole Miss, that protection that he had at the NFL. He had less pressure on him in the NFL than he did at Ole Miss when his offensive line was just breaking down consistently in front of him. And that's what allowed him to make plays and do all that stuff. So I love it from that, like, that's your most important investment at Jackson Dart. Invest in Jackson Dart by investing in the offensive line. And the Giants signed Greg Roman to be an offensive coach. We know the runs he needs. They get Patrick Hard a fullback. They were interested in running back with Jeremiah Love. They didn't get that. But, you know, we certainly like Cam Scadaboo. But I was like going into it. It's like, man, I want to run the ball down too. But you guys have Daniel Follale at starting guard, JMS at run in at center and left guard. That doesn't feel like you're really investing in the run game. Now you can, right? Now John Runnin is kind of viewed high. He's the one year mercenary here. Center, you know, we would like to upgrade eventually, but you can live with JMS for a year. And again, I hope they keep reinvesting into it as well. You know, so I love it. I wouldn't doubt go offensive line with me, you know, so I like it. And he might get an opportunity to play tackle eventually. Yeah, maybe that is his home. Tremaine Illumina will probably be gone in two years. Andrew Thomas, he's my favorite player on the team. He has an injury issue, man. So there's going to be opportunities to possibly play it. We'll see if they do that or throw Marcus Bowe out there. But right now I just viewed him as a guard anyways, right? If I was Arizona Cardinals and I drafted Francis Mauigoa, it would have been to play guard and not tackle. So the injury thing.

Speaker 2:
[42:06] Oh, the back?

Speaker 1:
[42:07] Yeah. They asked him about it in the press conference and Shane, they asked like, is he good? Like surgery? It did worry me a little bit when Shane was like, I had no surgery. He's like, right now, he's fine, right? I was like, oh, well, we'll hear that. Now, and they also referenced the fact that they fully clear them and stuff like that. We'll see. They didn't miss any games or any practices.

Speaker 2:
[42:31] No, we said this on the stream. There are some times when a weird thing that is unquantifiable pops up at a very suspicious time. I'm not saying that there isn't a back thing with him or anything like that, but it's not something that showed up that ever affected his game, right? There's never an incident where he had to come out of the game for a couple of plays. He didn't miss any games because of this. It's just something that popped up in the medical assessment of a player and having different team doctors take a look at him, whatever. This popping up on a very highly regarded player the week before the draft smelled a little fishy to me. We'll see how it goes. It's certainly the threat of the idea, like a back issue on an offensive lineman, a herniated disc, I believe they're talking about possibly being a long standing thing. That's a real threat worry. Whether it's to that degree with him, I think there might have been a little bit of draft trickery going on.

Speaker 1:
[43:30] I want to read it. Now again, we're a podcast, we're not doctors.

Speaker 2:
[43:33] Not doctors.

Speaker 1:
[43:34] Like I said, if he missed a bunch of games, then we would let it form our opinion of him more. He hasn't missed me. This is from Yahoo. During the NFL draft process, NFL teams discovered that Mauigoa is dealing with a herniated disc in his back. The injury is not expected to impact his draft on Thursday night. The back injury is not a significant issue now and is asymptomatic, but teams say that if it worsens at all, Mauigoa would then need surgery that could sideline him roughly three months. ESPN's Adam Schefft reported, some teams think he'll eventually need the surgery at some point either way. Run front office, executive said last week that if the injury flares up in training camp and requires surgery, it might potentially end Mauigoa's rookie season. Schefft reported, also the teams still expect Mauigoa. So he played every game in Miami. Hey, and the way that Shane answered it was a little bit weird. Maybe they are going to have him have surgery on it next week and then get it over with and he'll miss the OTAs and stuff and then you get them back for the start of training camp. Or Mitch, I'm not ruling that out if that's the case, but it's just, we're not doctors and I like the film, bro, and he hasn't missed any games. You're muted.

Speaker 2:
[44:49] There's no real reporting on the injury in terms of him as the player. There's no, it's not really an injury. It's like a health thing. He didn't get injured, I don't think, playing football. I think he just has this. We'll have to see. The fact that the Giants looked into it, they felt comfortable with it. They work closely with Miami's training staff. They have a whole new training staff in there too. So the easy line of Giants most injured team for the last two decades or whatever, fine, whatever, that's fine. But yeah, they sent down Ronnie Barnes, I'm sure.

Speaker 1:
[45:23] Don't say that. Let's do a little recap and then we'll do quickly our thoughts on Pick 37 for the people who listen to this bad boy on Friday, as you should. There's going to be some people listening for the first time, which by the way, those who are listening for the first time, welcome to the family. We'll see you at a live show in some random state. Don't worry. You don't know what I'm talking about. We will soon. Overall, man, I mean, you get Arvell Reese, you had him as your second play, best player in the draft. A lot of people had him as their best player, and the Giants said they did as well too. I believe them. I don't think that's just them blowing smoke. Extremely talented linebacker. You put them in a John Harbaugh type of defense with Bernard Wilson. You're going to let them do some pass rush stuff. You put them next to Tremaine Edmonds. You have the pass rush. You need to fix the defense tackle group. Then, you invest in the offense alignment. I think a worthy investment. That was my pounding the table for Francis Mauigoa. I was like, obviously, I like offense alignment. When I really like an offense alignment, I want them to draft them probably more than most people do. But this was one of those guys. Vega you want it. A lot of people like Vega you want it. I was not pounding the table for the Giants to draft him. I was in fact saying, don't draft him. Other people love him and call him the best goal. I just did not see that and I think he'll be a good player. I'm rooting for him. But I believe Maui Noah is. So I've been right about O-Line evaluation before, been wrong about them. I'm certainly hoping I'm right about this one because Jackson Dard and the Giants future relies on it.

Speaker 2:
[46:59] I feel comfortable about the Francis Maui Noah pick. I think that one has a small chance of biting us, really, really small. Arvell Reese is a little bit more of a gamble, which is not really what I wanted. I really wanted rock solid players that I wasn't going to have to worry about in bullet picks, but it is what it is. But I feel good about the strategy here. The commitment to the run game has been solid from the moment John Harbaugh got here, including prying around to see what it would cost for Kenneth Walker, looking very seriously at Jeremiah Love. This is a true commitment to establishing a strong run game, something to compliment Jackson Dard, protect Jackson Dard, build around Jackson Dard. In terms of how they keep going from here, before we talk about the draft itself, talking about the linebacker spot and the offensive line, in terms of free agency, would you add anything else at linebacker or do you feel set with McFadden, Edmonds, and Reese at this point? You feel pretty good.

Speaker 1:
[48:01] I mean, we get to the sixth round, I will be telling you the draft Jimmy Rolls or don't get me wrong. But overall, team building wise, I feel fine about this. Like you said, you got two starters, you have a backup of McFadden who is a very capable starter. So I feel very good about it. I'm not the biggest Tremaine Edmonds fan in the world, I'm not saying that, but linebacker, we're good for 2026.

Speaker 2:
[48:29] Offensive line as a unit right now, I mean, I guess JMS is the biggest weak link.

Speaker 1:
[48:36] Dude, what about a O-line double dip at 37? Pregnant and basontas are available. I know it's not anybody's going to want it. In fact, I don't want it. I want one of the defensive tackles. But it is one of those things, man, where I'm just like, oh, that could, again, I call it, I said my early mock draft, it's the complain now, thank me later draft. That's what that type of pick could be. It's a ballsy pick, it's going to piss people off. But like I said, it could be the complain now, thank me later when we have two guards who are starting for us for the next six to 10 years.

Speaker 2:
[49:12] So what I'll say is, apologies for the train as usual. There are no guards around. There's one guard. I have one fourth round grade on a guard. I have one fifth round grade on an interior offensive lineman. That's Frank Carmona from Arkansas and Pat Coogan from Indiana. I have a lot of defensive linemen in that group. I have quite a few defensive tackles. So, I mean, look, I want one of these defensive tackles at 37. I think that the money freed up from Dexter Lawrence allows you to possibly reach out to Kevin Zeitler if that's a position that you want to go after. If you want to stick with what you've got in terms of the starting five on the offensive line, I think you're good there too and just backfill behind them. GVR is still a depth signing that you can have. You can even have him compete with JMS for center if you want to. So I think that there's both of these spots, if they have to live with the starting unit that they have right now today, I'd be okay with it and they still have a 37th pick, they still have money in free agency, they still have a fourth, fifth and three six. So that's pretty cool that they made me feel good about that. Feel really nervous about defensive tackle and corner still.

Speaker 1:
[50:24] Yeah. Pick 37. I feel like there's two trains of thoughts. There's defensive tackle trio, the two-way defensive tackles left the board. We have Kaden McDonald, Kristen Miller and Lee Hunter who are run defenders. The Giants had the fifth, they have four picks in front of them. Likelihood to get a stronger one. One of my worries going into this draft season was, what if all those guys go? It's happened before where you have this thought of how second round pick can go and then you get there and it's just not the same way that you hoped. So there is that. Jermod McCoy, I'm going to say this. If the injury is this bad, I'm not asking them to draft Jermod McCoy. If they draft him, we're going to come on this podcast and talk about how amazing a player he is but you're scared about the injury and we'll deal with that when it happens. But if the medicals are this bad, I mean, that's just extremely worrisome.

Speaker 2:
[51:26] It goes absolutely counter to my whole theme for this draft, for this moment for the Giants is just, just take the surefire guys. That is the furthest thing from surefires. Nobody really even knows where he's going to be with this injury. Everyone knows how good they think he'll be if he's healthy. No one knows if he'll be healthy in 2026 at all. From there, whatever. So for me, this year for the Giants, you have to take Jermon McCoy off the board for day two, I think.

Speaker 1:
[51:56] Again, we don't have the whole damn thing, but it just doesn't make sense. There's other corners that people like.

Speaker 2:
[52:02] I think there's slack corners, man, for the most part at this point. Avion, Terrell.

Speaker 1:
[52:06] Colton Hood is certainly someone that people like. Here's my thing is the corners I do like are D'Angelo Pons and Keontae Scott. Like you said, Paul, maybe he's an outside guy, but he's to be the smallest outside guy to be good in the NFL. Keontae Scott is a service. He's more of a linebacker than he is an outside corner. I'm sorry. I end up on the defensive tackles. It is not just the desperate need. It truly is. There's a wild card. Emanuel McNeil Warren could be that, the safety athlete. I'm going to pull up my...

Speaker 2:
[52:41] I was just going to say, do you find it interesting that he fell out of the first round? Because I didn't have a first round grade on him.

Speaker 1:
[52:48] No, I didn't either. I thought he would go in the first. Same. My rolling big board right now is Jermod McCoy, obviously. Emanuel McNeil Warren, Jacob Rodriguez. I don't think we're taking him. Emanuel Pregnant, I'm probably not taking him. And then it's literally the three defensive tackles stacked on top of each other. Then Chase Basontas, DeAngelo Pons, and then Trade-on Stukes, the safety out of Arizona. I really like Trade-on Stukes as well, too.

Speaker 2:
[53:13] So there are five picks before the Giants, three defensive tackles, four picks before the Giants. There are two, 33, 34, 35, 36.

Speaker 1:
[53:22] 32 is on the first round.

Speaker 2:
[53:24] Sorry, 33, yep, yep, yep. Okay, so there's four picks. There's three defensive tackles that you'd be happy with, and Emanuel McNeil Warren, which forget about him for the Giants, but just as a guy who could absolutely take up one of those four spots, I'm a little, I would not be shocked if he's the first guy off the board, him or Jacob Rodriguez. I could see being the first guy off the board tonight, I guess, for everybody listening. Yeah. So that's two guys plus three guys. So there's absolute chance, plus also you've got other people kinda hangin out in there with like Anthony Hill, some of the corners, if guys are in the market for a slot corner, Colton Hood, like you said, but also Brandon Cisse, if you need a slot corner, somebody I really like, if you need a slot corner, Avion Torell, also a guy I really like. So, and not for nothing, Emmanuel Pregnon, Chase Peisontis, these are guys that are sort of in this range as well. So there's a very real shot that one of these three defensive tackles is there. Do you put them in an order? Do you care at all? Would all three of them satisfy what you need?

Speaker 1:
[54:27] Yeah, all three would. Like I said, they're literally like, you know, I do the vertical board. It's probably the only clump of the board where I have three people of the same position right in a row. I mean, it's probably, it's that. So I'm thrilled that all three of those guys are available right now and likelihood of one being there. So, all right, man, that's round one. Again, we will be live for all the other ones. We'll have our full draft recap on Monday. You know, we're not sitting here trying to go, you know, get the quickest views. We want to build it right, watch the film, do everything. So, really exciting round one. You know, Arvell Reese and Francis Mauigoa. Imagine telling yourself that in the middle of the season, Grump, that hey, we get Arvell Reese and Francis Mauigoa. So, I appreciate you guys very much. We will see you when we see you. Until then, let's go big.