transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it, and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the Fatherless Behavior Tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kailllowry.com. And if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon, because you might get it before everyone else. Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kail Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous. Hey, fuckers, welcome to a new episode of Barely Famous Podcast. I'm sitting here with Isaac Knighton, the long-awaited episode of just covering all the things regarding us, because we're reading the things that we see online, we are seeing the comments, we're seeing the pictures, we're here to do a tell-all on ourselves.

Speaker 2:
[01:01] So before you guys started dating, this is Frank. Did you hear any rumors about Kail back in the day?

Speaker 3:
[01:07] I didn't hear like any negativity, but I also didn't really, we were more Facebook friends than Instagram friends.

Speaker 1:
[01:12] But you didn't hear any rumors?

Speaker 3:
[01:13] No negativity that I heard coming from her direction.

Speaker 2:
[01:16] You guys made a decision to keep your relationship private. How did that transpire? How do you feel like it affected both of you and your relationship?

Speaker 1:
[01:24] I honestly don't think that I made the decision to keep anything private. I think the decision was made for me. The situation with Elijah happened so fast. Like it, my world was flipped upside down. I already knew him. We were talking, shooting the shit, and it sort of just like all sort of snowballed from there. And I don't think that we ever really got a chance to have a conversation about whether or not we would have our relationship on the Internet before it already hit the Internet. And then at that point, it was like damage control. Now we're going to be private because we were forced into how this has all snowballed, if that makes sense. I don't know if what I'm saying is like making sense. Like we didn't even get a chance to have those conversations before it hit the Internet. Once it hit the Internet, it was like, oh my God, damage control. Let's just pretend this isn't happening.

Speaker 3:
[02:12] Once things had, in our talking stage, I'll call it a talking stage, it was very limited because it felt so kosher. Like we've known each other for so long that our conversations didn't feel like forced or they didn't feel like-

Speaker 1:
[02:25] Like a regular talking phase when you're like first meeting and you're getting to know something. Like we felt like we already knew each other and I hope I'm not speaking for you when I say that. But the decisions were made for us and that's not new, right? Like with all the babies and with my other relationships, like even with Elijah, like those decisions have always been made for me and I've never been able to make the con- I think the only time I really was able to make those decisions was Rio and the twins. But even then people were still outing it. So it was like I was more so trying to do damage control for privacy then. And I think that what is happening now is like people are upset because I haven't been public about this relationship, but it's purely out of protection. I think for him too, not just for myself, but for him, like some of the same reasons I left Teen Mom and didn't put that relationship on the Internet in the beginning are a lot of the same reasons that I didn't want to do that to him because he's not really on the Internet. He has TikTok now and that's it. He doesn't have anything else. And so that's not something he ever signed up for. And so when people are outing it and putting it out there, it's just like we don't really know what to do outside of like, let's try to keep it private so that it doesn't get fucked up.

Speaker 3:
[03:34] I think once you let a lot of outside forces into your relationship, it sways your opinion or viewpoint on your significant other. So I think us trying to just keep it to ourselves and keep each other happy, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, I think us trying to keep everything under the household, I feel as if it was in best interest, because for me, I'm not necessarily like a social media person. My social media content, 99 percent of it is phishing related. Anything that I was doing online, it wasn't anything that was respectfully worthy of being, I don't know, publicized maybe. So when the relationship was put out there for the public eye, and then you read all these opinions and you read all these-

Speaker 1:
[04:23] Lies.

Speaker 3:
[04:24] A shit ton of lies.

Speaker 1:
[04:26] Well, we're going to clear the air on this.

Speaker 3:
[04:28] Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[04:29] I think when Javi got on Instagram Live, I think that's what was the start of the trickle-down effect. Some people may have questions about why I'm addressing it so many months later, and it's like, I don't want to be-

Speaker 3:
[04:39] We address shit when we want to.

Speaker 1:
[04:41] Like that.

Speaker 3:
[04:42] We don't move on your time. Well, on their time, we address shit when we want to.

Speaker 1:
[04:46] Part of the reason why I wanted to do this now, too, though, is like I have blocked all the Teen Mom pages. I've blocked all the pages for me to see what is being posted about you and I specifically. But for me, I have no reason to lie about any of this, and it's just one of those things where I know who I am as a mom. But I want to say that when Ike and I entered this relationship, we were uncomfortably honest with each other about everything, from who we cheated on, the relationships that we were in, messing with other people. We were so honest about all of that, and so I could decipher what people were trying to say about him. I knew the pieces that were true and the things that were almost true. It's almost like you heard it second, third, fourth hand sort of deal. For me, it was less upsetting because I was like, I already know what the actual truth is. For him, I think that was the first time that that exploded for you.

Speaker 3:
[05:42] I've never been the center of attention on social media. When I'm getting all of this and I'm reading certain comments and getting messages with, let me say, 70 percent. There was a little truth in there with a lot of lie. I'm reading certain things and I'm like, when did I do that? Or who did I do this with? Or where was I when this happened? At first, it was overwhelming, not going to lie because it was just reading all this false accusations and things and I'm like, this is nuts. This is nuts. Before Kail and I were outed, I was never talked about on social media. I was never on a T-page or are we dating the same man page?

Speaker 1:
[06:31] Were you posted on that?

Speaker 3:
[06:32] Yeah. I was posted on that. Just so many fucking lies. I'm a private person. I don't like to disclose a lot of things that I'm doing, whether it's simplicity of my work schedule, whatever the simplicity of what I'm doing on the weekend. No, it's just for me or for two other people to know, not 30 people to know. Learning a lot about myself that never transpired.

Speaker 1:
[06:57] People think that I'm unaware that I have four baby dads and I'm not really great in relationships. Do people think that I don't know this about myself? Do they think that I don't understand that I have repeated the pattern that my mom did to me? I'm very aware of that. So I could understand where the dads would be concerned. However, I wouldn't put my kids in harm's way. Valid concerns about me having multiple relationships in my kids' lives, that's valid. Do I think it warranted alive? No, I don't. I do think it's like, what's the word, culmination, a culmination of all of the things. One of Javi's biggest concerns was how fast Ike moved to Delaware. And yes, that was my doing. I did say like move to Delaware. I said that. Sorry, I put you in a bad position. That's concerned, I would be concerned maybe. I don't know, I try to put myself in his shoes and I think like if him and Lauren were not to be together and he were to introduce somebody else, I think I feel confident in my motherhood and I also feel confident that Lincoln would be okay. I'm not saying he would like it, but I think he would be okay. It's not ideal. I don't think he thinks it's ideal.

Speaker 3:
[07:59] I think it was rather quickly. And then we started to, honestly, I'm going to be real. We started to understand each other more underneath the same roof.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] I'll say this, while it wasn't ideal, I think it worked out the way it was supposed to work out. Because had we done long distance for a year, two years, three years, and then he moved in and it didn't work out. Now we've both just invested three years of our time in a long distance. And I get it, it's selfish. I have kids. It shouldn't be the main priority. But for people to understand me, they have to understand that I have, despite all of my relationships, I have lived in a really lonely world. And I'm going to get emotional talking about it because it's so frustrating. But it's like, I have been so lonely no matter what relationship I'm in. And this was the first time that I felt like I was, I've been with my best friend. Like, and I said it on the podcast, you guys know this. Like, I've only ever said, like, you can't be best friends with your partner. That's not real. Like, it's literally not real. So when I met him, it was like, OK, well, if he moves to Delaware, I will know very quickly if this is going to work or it's not going to work. And I get it. It's selfish. And when you have seven kids, you don't really get to be selfish. But also it's like, I want to share a life with someone. I don't want to just go through the motions.

Speaker 3:
[09:16] Just don't want to live. I want to be able to experience happiness with somebody, overall happiness. So sorry for cutting you off.

Speaker 1:
[09:24] No, it's OK. I think we learned each other very quickly. And so that did help. But no, I don't think it was ideal. I don't think it is my best choice that I've ever made. I also don't need other people to point it out for me.

Speaker 3:
[09:38] If we had a relationship problem, right? If you take that to an outside source, you are fracturing the home that you have. I've learned through my trials and tribulations, right? That it's okay if I'm maybe vent to one person. And that one person could be a good friend of mine. And it's really just an ear. I don't speak ill about her. I've never called her, what do they say, Ms. Piggy? I've never called her Ms. Piggy, never called her Shrek, never called her any derogatory names. So seeing all of these comments and things like that, it's like, bro, when the fuck did I say that?

Speaker 1:
[10:17] And who did you say it to?

Speaker 3:
[10:18] And who did I say it to? People wanted something to run with.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[11:55] I want to clear the air. Yes, I was in a relationship off and on for eight years, approximately eight years, give or take.

Speaker 1:
[12:03] And I always knew about that relationship. Yes, he cheated on her as he said earlier. He never cheated on her with me. I've never cheated on any of my partners with him. But I did know about his ex and I never disrespected their relationship to my knowledge.

Speaker 3:
[12:19] Yes, I do have a daughter. When I found out that her mother was pregnant, it was a rough time. And I'm not really going to dive a lot into detail, but it was a rough time. And ultimately, when all was said and done, her and I tried to work it out, but it only lasted for like two or three weeks. I read something online. Kailyn Rae did not pay for me to move from Philly to Delaware.

Speaker 1:
[12:42] Oh.

Speaker 3:
[12:42] Yep, that was something on there.

Speaker 1:
[12:44] I didn't pay for you to move to Delaware at all. Correct, at all. From anywhere, from Easton, from Allentown, from Philly, from New York, from Dominican Republic, nowhere.

Speaker 3:
[12:52] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[12:53] I was a little upset by that too, unrelated to him specifically, but anybody is like, everyone always asked me for money, everyone always asked me for this, everyone always asked me for that, and he never asked me for a dime. So it's frustrating that that is how people view me, and that is how people view my relationships, and it doesn't matter who I'm in a relationship with. They automatically assume that I am not good enough to have someone be genuinely interested in who I am, and it's always what I can do for them. Even just the general public thinks that of me, it's actually really upsetting. God forbid someone finds, like, actually has an interest in who I am. No shit, I'm sure the money is a great benefit, no doubt, but I don't think that's how this started, because if that was the case, he would have tried a long time ago, and he's never crossed that line prior to this, so it gets frustrating.

Speaker 3:
[13:46] I've had to, you know, just have a lot of conversations with her, to be fair, and just reiterate, like, my true intentions, to where it's like, listen, like, respectfully to you, I don't give a fuck what you have. I'm here for you. I'm not here for what you could offer. We've known each other for X amount of years, and to her point, like, if I was money driven, I would have seeked you out. Sought. Sought, thanks. What the Easton. Sought you out years ago, right? That's not it. Paid all my bills alone.

Speaker 1:
[14:21] For years.

Speaker 3:
[14:22] For years. So this is confusing. And I know for her, it's a bit emotional because she can go online and she just gets fake messages from people or people make dumb ass comments. And it's like, what?

Speaker 1:
[14:38] It does get in my head. Not just for all the relationships I've ever been in, it gets in my head. Like I'm only worth someone coming to me for money. I'm only worth someone coming to be with me because I'm a shitty person and I can't keep a man. It's like the number one thing, Kail can't keep a man.

Speaker 2:
[14:54] Alessandra left the room for a second, but she can speak to this too. People literally attack the people that they know are in your life and have been in for a really long time to the point where we've both received death threats from people from, why won't you control Kail? Why won't you tell her you're an enabler?

Speaker 1:
[15:14] It's upsetting because obviously you guys know, you've all expressed concerns, not just regarding my relationship or Ike, but just in just general situations, you guys have brought concerns to me and I'm like, I'm going to do this how I need to do it because this is how I learn. And unfortunately, if I have guilt for it, if I wish that I didn't do it, that's something that I have to go through on my own. Nobody can say something to me that's going to control me. And I think it's, it's upsetting because I've read, I read something over the weekend that said like, I pay Emily to be my friend and to do things for me. Right? No, even Emily was like, why are you, why is he moving to Delaware? Why? Like this is all too soon. Just because you guys don't agree with it, doesn't mean that we don't have to be friends over it. Like you guys are all expressing concerns. You want me to have no friends because I don't make the best choices all the time. I think when you read things over and over again, or when you see things over and over again, whether you, whether it's intentional or not, it gets into your head. And so if I'm reading comments on social media that are so negative about all the things I do wrong and nothing I do right, I'm gonna snap, right? And so it's in fact making it worse. One, I have teens and tweens on social media, so they're reading it. Two, I'm reading it, do you know what I mean? And so you're actually making it 10 times worse. And I think that Ike being in my life and my kids' lives is actually the least of the concerns, right? Like there's so many other things that we could all be worried about. Then he's no harm to my children.

Speaker 3:
[16:39] I try to protect her from a lot of opinions. I don't really try to let it affect me too much because ultimately, you know, my partner, you know, we are supposed to grow old together, right? So we can't bring outside forces into a relationship when a lot of people don't understand actually what's going on underneath the roof. I remember me being, I think I was on Instagram and I had opened up just Instagram and I have like, I don't know, 50 to 100 new followers, but every time I would refresh it, they're just growing. And I'm like-

Speaker 1:
[17:13] I remember you showing that to me.

Speaker 3:
[17:15] I'm like, what the fuck is going on? So she runs in and she's like, babe, we got to talk. Oh shit. Number one, what the fuck did I do?

Speaker 1:
[17:23] Right?

Speaker 3:
[17:23] That's, that's what did I do? But she was like, listen, Javi went on live, you know, he said some things, but I was just up down. I'm like, like, what the fuck is going on? And then seeing that, so I instantly deactivated Facebook and Instagram because now I had like Teen Mom pages following me and I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not about to deal with this shit. So then she had informed me like, hey, what had transpired? So now I'm just like, what the fuck is happening right now? What is going on? So, so, you know, together we had sat down and we had tried the process as well as we could at that time. Just, we have to just kind of get through this storm.

Speaker 1:
[18:02] Ike and I hadn't even had a conversation about whether the relationship would be public or not. But at the point that Javi named Ike, he also brought Ike's family into it because obviously by nature, it's like instinctual. You want to defend your nephew, your son, your brother, whoever it is. I don't know who all defended you, but you're bringing them into it because they want to this is new to everybody. These are people that have never been, had had any kind of publicity like this. And so it put everybody in a fucked up spot because now people in his family are trying to defend him, but they also don't know. They didn't know about our relationship. He hadn't even shared with them that he moved to Delaware yet. So you're putting, and now there's misinformation because these people are trying to defend him and they don't know the situation. And so they're only speaking on what they know. And then we're over here like, we wanted to keep it private. We didn't even talk about whether or not we were going to go public with it or not.

Speaker 3:
[18:54] I think it was, we're going to lock down, right? We're going to focus on what we need to underneath this household. Let the outside talk about whatever.

Speaker 1:
[19:03] I don't necessarily think that there were any other conversations about, okay, we're going to keep it private. It was more like, we're going to lock down and make sure we got to figure out what we got to figure out first. It wasn't really about whether we were going to go public or private.

Speaker 3:
[19:14] But I do want to say shout out to everybody who stuck up for me. Thank you. I do want to say that because there were a lot of people fighting battles for me behind closed doors. I got some phone calls from some people and they're like, yo, hey, this is what's going on. This is what I said in your defense. I know the story about your daughter. I know how you are in real life. They were like, bro, you stand on your own too, respectfully.

Speaker 1:
[19:41] To piggyback off that, Isaac doesn't talk shit about anyone.

Speaker 3:
[19:44] I don't.

Speaker 1:
[19:45] He doesn't talk shit about his exes. He doesn't talk shit about his daughter's mom. He doesn't talk shit about those people, so it was really upsetting for me. Obviously, some of the situations are not ideal. He is acknowledged that he cheated. He understands all of that. I don't think that it was necessary for some of the people to talk shit and they really didn't say anything about anything. It was just a bunch of bullshit.

Speaker 3:
[20:05] They just wanted to throw out misinformation and things like that. When you and I started conversing, there was nobody else. So when everything had transpired and there's all of this shit thrown out, it's like, no, I wasn't talking to you or I wasn't hanging out with you. No, when Kail and I, honestly, when we hung out, I was single already for a year. So I wasn't in a relationship. I wasn't severely talking to anybody. No, it was just occupying time with-

Speaker 2:
[20:40] So you were having hookups, but not relationships.

Speaker 3:
[20:43] Yes, correct.

Speaker 1:
[20:44] Did you have regrets in the beginning? You never had a regret. You never looked at the shit show that is my life and said, you know what? On second thought, I'm going home.

Speaker 3:
[20:52] No, because the shit show that's your life, the shit that I've had to grow up with and deal with, this is nothing. So like to me, this is a mother in the best interest of her kids, trying to better them educationally, in sports, mentally, emotionally, like you're trying every avenue to better your children's life.

Speaker 1:
[21:19] Even when you're upset and overstimulated, but just like the crying, the schedules, like a regular day from no day is the same. There is no routine. There's no such thing as a routine. Like when I see people are like, oh, what's your routine? What's your day?

Speaker 3:
[21:32] We have a routine.

Speaker 1:
[21:33] Yeah, it's pure fucking chaos.

Speaker 3:
[21:35] But we have a routine in the chaos.

Speaker 1:
[21:36] But you never were like, you know what? This is too much.

Speaker 3:
[21:39] No, because once I was able to process everything, I'm like, this is just another day. Like it's not too much for me to handle. I was managing 40 people a day.

Speaker 1:
[21:49] Yeah, but that's not the same as living with the kids 24 hours a day.

Speaker 3:
[21:53] You're right. But managing 40 adults who are married, divorced, cheating on their women, whatever the case may be, it's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[22:02] What about me and my seven personalities? Did that ever?

Speaker 3:
[22:06] We're going to be here a while for that one. Your seven personalities, it took a while for me to understand.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[25:59] I didn't have regrets, but I had a lot of questions. Like, how do you go from hee hee ha ha to I'm overstimulated?

Speaker 1:
[26:08] Oh, so regular stuff.

Speaker 3:
[26:10] Oh, how am I supposed to know that, you know, you want certain things, you would like certain things done, but not necessarily communicate it in a way to where I'm responsive? How am I supposed to be able to understand that? So it took some growing and learning and really continuing to study one another.

Speaker 1:
[26:28] Well, that was very hard for me. I came out of a relationship where what's understood doesn't need to be explained, Elijah and I did not have deep conversations. Elijah and I did not have, he didn't come with me to work. Elijah and I did not do things together, right? So that was our relationship was you read my mind and we don't talk about it. Getting into a relationship with him where he needs communication, he also has never been around seven kids. I had to communicate and that was different for me. Before Elijah, I was with someone who didn't meet any single possible need I ever had in my whole life. So I didn't rely on him at all. That was never a thing. So I think that for me, it was a little bit of a learning curve because I'm like one thing that he brought up to me, it was always like when I was trying to express what I needed, I can't be with someone who and then I would say whatever it was. And he's like, I didn't know you needed that. Like how am I supposed to know? You're telling me you can't be with me. I don't know that you need that because you never said it. So I'm expecting him to read my mind and I didn't realize I was even doing that until he said it to me in the car the one day. It's like, Kail, you keep saying you can't be with me basically. I started crying because I'm like, oh my God. I couldn't imagine moving to another state to be with someone and wanting to start my life with this person. Now all of a sudden I'm with them all the time and they're telling me they can't be with me for several reasons every single day. That really opened my eyes to what my expectations of him were, which were unrealistic expectations. On the flip side of that, there are so many things where we just look at each other. We know we're thinking the same thing.

Speaker 3:
[27:56] The telepathy.

Speaker 1:
[27:58] It was a learning curve, I think, for both of us. When you say you had questions, he literally sat me down one day and was like, how many things are going through your brain right now? Then it's like, how do you list that to someone? How do you tell someone?

Speaker 3:
[28:09] To your point, it's like, wait a minute, how am I supposed to know but you don't even know what you're thinking?

Speaker 1:
[28:14] Because I do know but I don't know how to put it into words.

Speaker 3:
[28:16] Correct. I'm supposed to read her mind, but it's like, how? Once I was able to sit her down and express it, listen, I'm able to run off of communication. It took me some time to realize that. To now when I was able to understand who I am as a person and understand what I want for my partner and understand the mistakes that I've once made, I'm like, babe, just sit down, talk. What is it? Sometimes, it's still a little challenging to where she has to gather herself and say, okay, listen, can you help out with this? Or I seen that you did this, can we try it this way? Okay, that's fine. But to be able to read somebody's mind and be able to say, okay, well, I thought this and I thought that, but I was completely wrong, that's where lines get blurred because I'm assuming one thing, but I'm completely wrong and I know assuming is not the best. But I'm trying to get into a schedule or routine of this, but now it's completely different. So stepping out of her comfort zone and being able to communicate, although whether her emotions are heightened or she's just not feeling the best, she has a lot running through her mind. Just talk about it. What's up? What's going on? I can be an ear, talk to me, but it took me a while to get to this point.

Speaker 1:
[29:29] Would you do anything different when you look back at how everything transpired? Would you have done anything different?

Speaker 3:
[29:36] I'm going to say no. The reason I say that is because to your point some time ago in the conversation, it was, if we waited three years and three years, her and I are official.

Speaker 1:
[29:47] Living long distance.

Speaker 3:
[29:49] Living in different states and things like that. That's three years wasted. That's three years that we're only FaceTime and texting and seeing each other.

Speaker 1:
[29:57] Once a month?

Speaker 3:
[29:58] Yeah, once a month because her schedule is busy. My schedule was decent. Going into it and being able to understand each person and being able to learn and grow and things like that, I wouldn't change anything. Because to me now, I feel as if we're fairly regulated and we're starting to understand each other a lot better.

Speaker 1:
[30:19] What are your red flags specifically? Like Isaac Knighton's red flags?

Speaker 3:
[30:24] What are mine personally?

Speaker 1:
[30:27] Ones that I should stay away from. Obviously, you look like a red flag, but what are your red flags?

Speaker 3:
[30:34] Sometimes I'm too independent. When I'm upset or when I'm frustrated, I like to self-isolate. I guess that could also be a red flag. So when I'm self-isolating, I'm really just in my head trying to process whatever my emotions are at the time and trying to regulate them accordingly so I don't lash out verbally. So I do like to self-isolate.

Speaker 1:
[30:59] For three days, four days.

Speaker 3:
[31:02] A week, too.

Speaker 1:
[31:02] He has not done that to me.

Speaker 3:
[31:04] No, not to her. For a period of time, I was very self-centered. I have to figure out my life. I have to worry about my emotions. I have to worry about my mental, my emotional, my spiritual health. I have to. Who else is going to do it for me? But as I progressed and started to actually understand other people's emotions and feelings, it's like, wait a minute, you're not the only person. The world doesn't roll around you. You have to be mindful of how you speak, the tonality of how you speak, how you word your sentences.

Speaker 1:
[31:36] Did you expect for us to connect the way that we did, though? Or did you know that we would have?

Speaker 3:
[31:40] Both.

Speaker 1:
[31:41] You didn't expect it, but you knew we would have?

Speaker 3:
[31:43] Like, it sounds contradicting.

Speaker 1:
[31:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[31:45] But like the first time we hung out.

Speaker 1:
[31:47] Oh, I knew.

Speaker 3:
[31:48] Yeah. But like I didn't expect it. But the first time we hung out, it was like.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] Then you knew.

Speaker 3:
[31:54] Yeah. And I'm like, and it was just you and I hanging out. Like it wasn't additional people. So when you and I hung out, it was like it was just very natural. I felt like your personality was natural, although you were nervous as hell. You're nervous as hell.

Speaker 1:
[32:11] I don't think I expected to have a full-blown relationship. But after the first time we hung out, I think both of us just knew what it was. We just both felt the same way. And then we had a conversation about where we are in our lives. And for me, I think I don't want to speak for you, but I think for both of us, it was like we've been in fucked up relationships before, acknowledged where we've been toxic in the past, and we both wanted the same things moving forward. Like we don't want to waste time. We don't want to waste each other's time or anybody else's time, for that matter, ready to be committed and faithful to somebody. And I feel like we were both on the same page with that, and I don't want to speak for you, but...

Speaker 3:
[32:48] No, I feel that 100%.

Speaker 1:
[32:52] I don't know that there would have been a better time or a worse time. So yes, while it wasn't ideal in terms of the timeline of me finding out I was cheated on and my relationship with Ike, if I move on and I happen to move on with somebody else, that's not up for debate. You cannot deny chemistry and attraction when it's there, right? Contrary to that, I would say that I did think about what type of person he was before I brought him into the rest of my kids' lives.

Speaker 3:
[33:21] It's not like we spoke and, hey, come meet my kids. It wasn't any of that.

Speaker 1:
[33:27] It wasn't, right. And it's not like I met him on Tinder, right? I'm not saying that there are unsafe people on Tinder, but I didn't just meet him for the first time and introduce him to my kids. Like I have known him since pretty much high school. So and not in depth obviously, but we did, y'all did a fucking background check on him. I already like, I knew he wasn't lying when he said, you know, I don't have a background.

Speaker 3:
[33:49] I've never been incarcerated.

Speaker 1:
[33:51] I know where most of the places you've worked. I know I've met your entire, almost your entire family. Like it's not like I'm not putting any thought into it. I do understand the concern surrounding my kids. I get it. I do. And that's all in the sentence there. I get it. Some people will argue that I'm the same as my mom, but with money. I've read that comment several times. I don't know if there's a way for me to explain it. Like right here, right now in this conversation, I'm thinking back to like my childhood and my mom, the men that my mom had me around. I can't say that I've honestly ever complained about any of my mom's husbands or long-term relationships. So I think it impacted me in a way that didn't necessarily set a good example, but my mom's husbands and my mom's long-term boyfriends, they never hurt me. They only ever helped my mom and they only ever helped me. It was the men in between that she also had me around. Those were the dangerous ones. So I think in some ways, that's sort of like my justification is like, my mom never really had me around her long-term boyfriends that were helping her. They never hurt me. It was just the ones in between. So I think in my head, I've always justified it that way maybe subconsciously. I don't know that I have anything to say about why I do it. I don't know, but if I'm not happy as a woman first, I cannot be a good mom. I'm not saying that I rely on men for happiness because if we're being honest, you look at my track record, they've all made me miserable. In some ways, it's been actually more detrimental and hurtful than helpful. I don't know. I don't have an answer. Something that I need to work on in therapy and I did tell my therapist about him. We're just getting into that now, but I don't have an answer. But I have had conversations with my kids about Ike. I've had conversations with my kids about Elijah. I've asked them, do they feel safe around Ike? It's going to be controversial because it's like don't involve kids in adult decisions. But at the end of the day, some of my children are old enough to tell me whether they like or dislike a partner I have. I think at the point that one of my kids tells me, hey, I really don't like that person, I would reevaluate. But I've had private commerce and I told him about it. I said, listen, I talked to the kids about you. Like I needed to get some input from them because I want them to feel like they're heard, have an opinion, be able to tell me one-on-one what they think and all of them like him. So I don't, I don't know. I've been doing a little spring reset in my closet lately and I'm super excited because I'm focusing more on quality over quantity. Get rid of the clutter and rebuild a capsule wardrobe with quality pieces from Quince because all of Quince's pieces are well-made, they're versatile and easy to reach for every single day. If there's one thing that Alessandra taught me is if you do a timeless wardrobe, you're able to mix and match so much easier and Quince makes that so easy for me. Their fabrics feel elevated and the fits are so thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. So it makes doing this so much more possible. Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and super soft denim. If you know me, I'm not a big denim girlie, so I'm very particular about my denim. And all of these styles with Quince start around $50. Their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable, effortless, the kind of things that you can throw on and instantly look put together, which is exactly what I need. And here's the thing, Quince works directly with ethical factories to cut out the middleman, so you're paying for the quality and not the brand markup, which is super important to me. I always want to promote businesses that do that. So you guys can refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/famous for free shipping and 365 day returns. They're now available in Canada too. Go to q u i n c e.com/famous for free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com/famous. What would you say that you, where are you at in your life right now? Are you complacent, content, happy? Are you indifferent? Where are you at right now? Not career-wise, but just in general.

Speaker 3:
[37:56] My overall, as a person, I think I'm happy. Happiness is number one. After that, when you're happy, you're able to make the proper decisions. You're able to have a proper thought process.

Speaker 1:
[38:09] I actually watched a TikTok about that regarding motherhood. They're able to make more logical and clear headed decisions as a parent. But when you're stuck in survival mode or you're constantly miserable from being stuck in survival mode, you're not going to make those same decisions that you would if you were content, happy, etc. Well, Kail selfish, she's only thinking about men. Oh, Kail, sheets never get cold. And it's like, okay, that's what they said when you came.

Speaker 3:
[38:36] They said the bed was still hot.

Speaker 1:
[38:38] But I think to be fair, I do think that the timeline has been blurred a little bit.

Speaker 3:
[38:43] Yes, it has.

Speaker 1:
[38:44] Because I think they thought like Elijah was out and he was in like within days or I had you on the back burner. Actually, one of the kids' dads said I had him on the back burner when I was with Elijah, which is never, I mean, you can say it. I don't even have to, but he can tell you like we didn't have those. I think the last conversation we had, you wished me a happy birthday.

Speaker 3:
[39:03] I didn't know that she was in a relationship or anything like that. Like her and I, we've-

Speaker 1:
[39:07] Platonic. I didn't delete it out of my phone. I wasn't being sneaky about like he wished me a happy birthday. I left it there. Literally, that was the extent of it. So just for clarity, never had him on the back burner. It was strictly platonic.

Speaker 2:
[39:19] Kail, you said that you would never date a man.

Speaker 1:
[39:22] Men with children. Why am I with him if he has a daughter? He is the only person, if this didn't work out, I would never date a man with children. I would not. I still stand by that. Because of the circumstances of the relationship with the mother of his child, also her living so far out of state, not just a two-hour drive across the border. It's like eight, 10, 12-hour drive. Also understanding the nature of the relationship when she got pregnant, I feel, and knowing him for as long as I've known him, I think all contributes to why I would be open-minded to dating him. The only other circumstance I could see myself dating a man with children is if the mom is dead. People are like, I would never take advice from Kail. Well, why? I've been in a million relationships and I suck at them, and I've learned from every single one of them. I also, I don't know, I feel like I have experienced enough to give advice that this is what works, this is what doesn't, this is what I did wrong, this is where dating a man with kids or no kids or this or that. I feel like they think I don't learn anything and they also think that I can't keep a man. I have left every single relationship I've ever been in. Nobody left me. It sort of ties back into the conversation of I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy of anybody being genuinely interested in me. It's only for the money. It kind of ties into that whole situation. Kail can't keep a man. It's like men are going to do what they're going to do regardless. I trust that this is who he is because I've literally, he's never dogged out anybody in his life to me. Anything we'll say negative that's been said has always been with respect. He's told me things that are not great, but with respect about other people like, oh, you know, like any conversation that's come up about previous relationships or toxic behaviors that he's done, he's sort of been set it in a respectful way. But for me, it's like, if we break up or things go south, are you going to run to the internet? Are you going to go run and tell your families all these negative things about me and never speak positively about me? Are you going to say, you know, negative things about my parenting? Are you going to, you know, say I'm not a good person? Like those types of things, because I think so often, everyone, with the exception of Elijah, has pretty much dogged me out at some point for whatever reason they may have. But I've witnessed conversations that he's had with people that are not necessarily in his favor, and he still has never gone on the internet. I mean, we've been friends on social media, you know, on and off with your accounts and stuff for like 10 years, and he's never posted negatively about his ex or his daughter's mom. And so for me, that's sort of where the loyalty is for like my partner is like, I don't want you to run to the internet to dog me out or say all these horrible things when you know that, yeah, there weren't, there was negative things, but like, they don't outweigh the positive.

Speaker 3:
[41:57] I want to say this, though. I did speak ill one time on social media about, I'm not going to say, you know what it is.

Speaker 1:
[42:03] I know, but you were also in your 20s.

Speaker 3:
[42:05] Correct.

Speaker 1:
[42:06] That was 10 years ago. I'm not worried about what you said 10 years ago.

Speaker 3:
[42:09] Yeah, but it was one time.

Speaker 1:
[42:10] We'll say like the last three to five.

Speaker 3:
[42:12] No, I don't know, because I'm a firm believer, what you put on social media, like if you make a Facebook status, my boss fucking sucks, right? That's like, why? You don't have to do that. So for me, I wouldn't really put that negativity on social media. I did one time.

Speaker 1:
[42:30] I am aware of situations that he easily could have spoke on as well. I'm not saying he was perfect. I'm not defending him because I've actually defended them in several scenarios, but he's never dogged them out. And I think that for me, loyalty in that way is like I have the most respect for Elijah in those situations because he could have went online and said all the negative things about me and he never did. So the respect that I have for him, he will have my loyalty for that. And same for for I.

Speaker 3:
[42:56] Loyalty for me is just do right by me. Like in every manner, just do right by me. This thing that we have called life, like we only get one. Like I understand that we have to go through hell to get to heaven. Understand where you went wrong in life. Understand where you need to grow. So once you're at that mental space of, I'm done with the bullshit, and you're able to solely say, hey, you know what? Like I'm going to be going to do right by this person. Like just do right by me, just just behind closed doors, behind my back, to my face, in all manners, just do right by me. Once if I find out you're not doing right by me, now I go from calm, cool, collective, funny guy singing all the time, shit like that to now it's the, cause you take my kindness for weakness. So ultimately just do right by me in every manner. That to me, that's loyalty.

Speaker 1:
[43:51] I'm the black cat. He's the golden retriever. He could talk to anyone. He'll always put on a happy face to talk to someone if he has to. He could talk to a fucking wall.

Speaker 3:
[44:01] I was talking to the security guard at the damn soccer game the one day.

Speaker 1:
[44:05] Oh yeah. I walked in and I'm like, what the fuck is this? A bromance? I don't know what the is going on. So he's the golden retriever for sure. Would you agree?

Speaker 3:
[44:12] Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I'd rather bring positivity. I'd rather be the-

Speaker 1:
[44:18] So I'm negative?

Speaker 3:
[44:19] I'm not saying that, but if you're in one of them moods, I ain't gonna lie to you. If you're in one of those moods. Like when they really say like happy wife, happy life, like a man could buy the house, build a house. He could do everything.

Speaker 1:
[44:31] But if the wife's not happy-

Speaker 3:
[44:32] But if the wife is not happy, there is hell within those walls. It's when she opens up her phone and I've said this to her actually before. I understand the platform that you're on. I get that. But the moment that you open up social media and you start scrolling through those likes and comments and you start reading the negativity, you go from, man, I woke up, had a decent night's sleep, let's get this day on. It'll wreck your whole shit. To, oh my God, why is this person lying about this? Why are these people making false allegations regarding whatever the case may be? All of this negativity. So, honestly, I try to be the golden retriever to bring the light and hey, you know, let's be optimistic. Let's look at the good, the positive.

Speaker 1:
[45:24] And that's happened in our relationship, like people coming forward and saying certain things that I have to second guess because I at this point, and I hate that I have had to bring this up a couple of times, him up a couple of times, but like Elijah shocked not just me, but every fucking person. Like if Elijah Scott Williams could cheat, anybody can. I looked at him when our relationship was outed because people started saying things. And even though I was like, okay, what this girl said could not be true because you were physically with me, it's like I have to second guess everything. Just second guessing our relationship because of comments or second guessing my motherhood because of comments or second guessing my friendships because of, you know, and it takes a toll on you because then at some point, you know this more than anybody, I've had mental breakdowns, like everyone is against me and everyone secretly hates me. Like my own people.

Speaker 3:
[46:20] I just think of if she's able to wake up and hit the alarm, right? Okay, hey, we're up. It's our day, time to start the day. I think if she's able to do that instead of, hey, you know, waking up and boom, the Internet, it's detrimental to your mental health. I'm going to say mental health first and then emotional health.

Speaker 1:
[46:40] Because then my motherhood, it's a trickle down effect because then it's like, okay, well, and now I'm double backing on all of my questioning, all my own choices for my kids. I am snapping at them because I'm like, I don't, you can't regulate your emotions.

Speaker 3:
[46:53] You're just so lost.

Speaker 1:
[46:55] Yeah. I would say that that whole situation so closely after I found out that Elijah cheated on me, those two things flip my world upside down and it all was because of social media. Because they come to me directly and said something, right? That's one thing, but social media, it's a blessing and a curse, truly.

Speaker 3:
[47:15] It's more negative than positive. That's how I see it. But it also depends on, I guess, who you follow and things like that. If I just look at the overall, it's more negative. For me, giving up social media is easy as fuck. I don't care about it.

Speaker 1:
[47:28] But I also make money on social media.

Speaker 3:
[47:30] This is my livelihood, my job. I'm going to say it's your life.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] Thankfully, now I do have a team behind me that could, in theory, post everything, so I never have to get on. I have decreased the amount of time I'm on. Those three to five minutes that I'm on is enough to wreck my day. It's not like in those three to five minutes, it's solely positive.

Speaker 3:
[47:48] It's ruining her day and I'm over here going to retrieve her.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[49:48] The first thing that you do, the alarm's off. It's you look at, okay, hold on. You look at your text. After you look at your text, it's social media. So it doesn't matter what platform it's on. Like you're going from, okay, do I have missed calls, text message, whatever, cool, social media, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram.

Speaker 2:
[50:05] Are you in this for Kail, for Clout, for Money, mixture of both?

Speaker 3:
[50:09] I'm in it for her, honestly. So Money, I can give two shits about. Honestly, I can hold my own. Clout, I can give two shits about Clout. But I've expressed that to her a lot of times because back to the social media thing, right? She'll get fake messages from burner accounts and things like that. And she second guesses things and I just have to provide as much reassurance that I can. It's like, I don't ask you for anything. Like financially, I don't ask you for anything. I can give two shits about Clout. I'm not saying, hey, post us online.

Speaker 1:
[50:45] No, but I think that sometimes in my position, like somebody doesn't have to ask for those things for it to be what they're in it for, right? Like I don't know how to say no to people. So someone just can mention to me like, oh, I really liked the perfume you were wearing. And I'm like, oh, here you can have it. Like that's the type of person I am. And it definitely comes from a place of trauma. It's like, you know, I think that, and that was something I've said to you, what I'm saying it here on this episode is like, you don't have to ask for those things for that to be what you're in it for.

Speaker 3:
[51:15] That's how I take it though. Like if I wanted something, I would ask for it.

Speaker 1:
[51:20] And I get that, but I think for maybe Alessandra myself is like, you don't have to.

Speaker 3:
[51:25] I understand that. I mean, not to veer off the question on myself, but I've been around her long enough to be able to pinpoint certain individuals who are in her life that can use her for clout or use her for the hey, I just want to be in your presence because I know what can come from it. For me, it's her. That's, it's her. Like I just wanted her, want her as a person, not anything that comes with the perks. There we go. I don't care about the perks. It's just her. I don't expect anything. Maybe that's what it is. Like I don't expect anything.

Speaker 1:
[52:07] I don't think that even him saying that would, people will still believe that, because you can say that all day. And I told him that. That's something that I repeat to him all the time. It's like, he'll try to reassure me. But like, it's like, people say that to me all the time. People tell me all the time, I just want you, I just want you, I just want you. And that's great to hear. But like at the end of the day, like, you know that people could say that till they're blue in the face. And that is exactly what they're doing is using me. And he said it to me not too long ago. He's like, you're second guessing this, aren't you? And I said, yeah, because I don't know what, you could tell me that your intentions are me.

Speaker 3:
[52:38] We could be together, engaged, married for 20 years. And still every day she's going to think.

Speaker 1:
[52:46] Well, I mean, if you look at the track record so far, it's like that is essentially what's happened.

Speaker 3:
[52:51] What can these people gain from you?

Speaker 1:
[52:53] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[52:54] And I didn't come into this with an expectation to gain anything or take or anything. It was just when we hung out and we were in each other's presence with no friends, no commentary, and it was just us. And I was able to pick up on her at that time. It was a golden retriever energy. She had that golden retriever energy, that energy that honestly I'm used to giving, not receiving. But when she gave me that personality, and I was like, yeah, this is it. I only want you for you. And that personality and the vibes, the positive vibes, because I've been in a lot of instances where I just felt a lot of negativity come in my way. And for her, it was just her being her, her being witty, her being-

Speaker 1:
[53:45] You think I'm witty?

Speaker 3:
[53:47] Depends on the day. But her being, honestly, there's some, like she asked dumb questions too. I think it's funny. Like what? If I was a worm, would you love me?

Speaker 1:
[53:56] I did not ask you that. But would you use me for bait, for your fish?

Speaker 3:
[53:59] No, cause I fly fish. So you'd just be in the container.

Speaker 1:
[54:02] Oh, so you'd keep me?

Speaker 3:
[54:03] Yeah, I'd keep you.

Speaker 1:
[54:04] It goes back to the conversation about, I'm not worthy. I am not worthy for anybody, for anything other than what I can provide or give to them.

Speaker 3:
[54:13] What can I gain from-

Speaker 1:
[54:14] It's never been like, you know, I really care about you as a person. And also it's always the people that would never do it in return. So that's hard, because, you know, I think about even like my exes that I've invested in, if the roles were reversed, they would not have done half the shit that I offered or tried to do for them. And it's weird because I think it also depends on the partner that I'm with too. Like, if you asked all my exes and Ike what their perspective is on that alone, I think they would all have a different say based on what I have been able to provide for them and what the confidence level is, because I think it also depends on the person I'm with too. For the short time that we've been together, I would say the first half was like a big learning curve for both of us. And more recently, he just is starting to do things without me having to ask. Like, he's sort of anticipating the needs that are coming. One morning, this is my perspective on it, if it happened differently, then you can say this, but like, I just remember one morning, I like, maybe my alarm went off, maybe it didn't, I don't know. He got up and I stayed asleep and lunches were packed, kids were in the car to go to school, like he did it and I woke, like I got out of bed and I didn't, I don't know if I didn't realize what time it was, I don't know what happened that morning, but all that was done and he was already ready to go out the door with the kids. So it's like, he's sort of anticipating whatever, what happened, why didn't I get up?

Speaker 3:
[55:35] Her's a tired girlie. I just really try to just put my best thoughts forward and say, hey, today, what can I help out with? Where do I feel is an area that is in need versus I know that this is already taken care of, or I'll get to this, but this is the priority first.

Speaker 1:
[55:55] Like last night, for example, we were talking about who was gonna go to Elliot's play. Well, I bought a lot of tickets because I didn't know who was going, I didn't know what the situation was until closer to the play. And he said to me, well, I'm not going, I have to take Creed to soccer. And it was just made me feel good to know that he was just like taking initiative, he was just gonna do it. And like, obviously, he's not thrilled that he's missing out on what Elliot has going on. But like, it's nice to know that he was just already bridging the gap. So even if we changed plans, he thought already two steps ahead.

Speaker 3:
[56:24] And I know I said earlier, like this shit is easy. To you, it's like it's chaos. But for me, it's like everybody has their place. But for me, it was just coming in and trying to understand each individual's personalities. So once I was able to understand everybody's personalities and try to anticipate what's next and things like that, it was like, some people might fold. For me, I was raised on chaos. I wasn't raised with being heard as a kid. I wasn't raised as, hey, there's a problem. Let's sit down and fix it. A lot of things for me were swept under the rug. We're not going to talk about it. It happened, but it never had happened, whatever.

Speaker 1:
[57:07] So we actually have really similar childhoods. I'm not saying that that makes him qualified, but I think he understands it at a different level. Because like, when I think about like my kids' dads, I asked him to his face, like, it doesn't bother you that I have kids by four men. And he was like, no.

Speaker 3:
[57:22] I come from a whole blended family. So like I'm the youngest of six, her having seven.

Speaker 1:
[57:27] But the dads, the fact that I had four kids' dads didn't bother you?

Speaker 3:
[57:32] No, to me, that's fine. To circle back, why I feel I'm best qualified is like, I just feel like I've lived this already. So me being able to have soft conversation with kids, have soft conversations with the boys who are slowly turning from boys to men at some point, trying to give guidance, trying to give soft opinions on things, it's just second nature. So the quote unquote chaos isn't necessarily chaos. It's, I don't know, the norm for me, at least. You have a good sentence or quote that you say, and I thrive in chaos, right? That's what you state. So, but there's like the reality of it is you're good at managing the chaos, but thriving in it.

Speaker 1:
[58:20] Well, when I say chaos, I'm talking about all the appointments, all the sports, all the things. That I'm fine with. It's the mental load that I'm not thriving in. Unmedicated or medicated, with the amount of children that I have, if it's one or two kids, maybe you don't have to do that, but we're talking blended households.

Speaker 3:
[58:37] Seven of them things. I never imagined myself having kids. I like the idea of it, but when all was said and done, I didn't think that I would actually have kids. Coming from a blended family, right? Just seeing a lot of things and experiencing a lot of things. So I didn't really think having kids was for me. So then I started working with kids. Understanding, so I used to coach football, and from coaching, I'll say, coaching allowed me to really gain a soft spot, and then working with kids was another soft spot. So I think growing up not wanting kids, it was like no. But then as I started to progress and really started to mentally mature, it was like, okay, cool, I could do this.

Speaker 1:
[59:24] And then when you started working with kids, then you, your daughter's mom.

Speaker 3:
[59:26] Yeah. So then, obviously, I have a daughter. So for me, it was like, okay, cool. It's my time, time to buckle down, do what the hell I got to do. It's not just me anymore. I got a plus one. And obviously, things didn't work out as discussed at that time. But now it's really just trying to make sure the family underneath this household is taken care of from babies on up. So having kids with Kailyn Rae, I told her I want to go about it correctly. I would like to have a wife. From there, the discussion of children. But I don't want to be one of these people out here who has two, three, five, 10 baby moms. I don't want that. I've learned and have grown. So at this point, it's, I want to do this the right way.

Speaker 1:
[60:16] So would you say you're open to having kids, but it's not a deal breaker? Would you say that?

Speaker 3:
[60:19] Yeah, I'm open to it. Like I'm open to it. I just want to go, like do it the right way. I don't want to be 50 years old, have five baby moms, 12 kids. Like I don't want to do that. I want to have a wife.

Speaker 1:
[60:35] Not me with four baby dads. But to be fair, I wanted, like I tried with all of them.

Speaker 3:
[60:41] So like you tried for the family aspect. So ultimately like you wanted to settle down and build. That's where I'm at. I want to settle. Well, I'm settled, but I want to build. I want to continue to learn each other daily and things of that nature. But I want to have a wife. I don't want to just have a baby mom.

Speaker 1:
[61:03] It's not a deal breaker for me in any way, shape or form. But I think that when you fall in love with someone in a real way, naturally you want to procreate with them. And so it's one of those things where like, I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't, if I said, oh, I didn't think about having a child with him, right? Like, it's not, I'm in a place in my life where like, if it happens, it like, if we would, one, we would have to go through IVF. And two, like if it didn't happen, I would be fine.

Speaker 3:
[61:32] It's not like, oh, well, if we don't have a child, the relationship's over and nothing. No. Like for me, if we go about it the right way, cool.

Speaker 1:
[61:39] But for me, I don't necessarily see a right way because I've been married and that didn't work out. And then how old were you? 21. So I was 21 when I got married.

Speaker 3:
[61:49] Doesn't really count. Like you were still a kid.

Speaker 1:
[61:51] Also fair. That's that is valid. To be fair, like you're still a yes, you're an adult, but I actually we had a conversation recently and I was just like, it's crazy how he learned. Like, so obviously he has a daughter and he saw how that all worked out. Right. And he never did that again. You know, after that, he was in, you know, his on and off relationship for eight years and never had a child with her. Right. I never learned that. Like, I want to be loved so bad in such a genuine way that I was going against my better judgment and going against all the red flags that I saw because I think people look at it as like, Kail can't keep a man. But for me, it was like, I just wanted a family so bad that I was willing to do whatever it took. And then it didn't work out for me. And so that's, in my opinion, that is how I didn't learn the first, second or third time. And then the fourth time was really just with Ash, to be honest. And so I said to him, like, it's crazy how you learned the first, like you never put yourself in that position again. But for me, I kept putting myself in that position because what I wanted at that time.

Speaker 3:
[62:53] I realized that when I was going through a lot of things, I didn't want to feel like that again. Didn't want to do it. I didn't want to feel like no matter what I was doing, it wasn't good enough. At that point, it was like, Isaac, you've put yourself in this position, learn from it.

Speaker 1:
[63:07] Where I did not learn over and over and over. And the idea, I was like sort of living in denial, like, okay, like there's no way this one won't work out. You know what I mean? So for him, it was like, I don't want to feel like this again. I'm not putting myself in that position where I was like, oh, this time it'll work out.

Speaker 3:
[63:20] Like I literally remember like the emotions I was going through and it was like, this is not good. I just knew, no. What I'm going through right now, like this too shall pass, but learn. And I want to say shout out to, you know, people who were in my life at that time, you know, who were very positive, you know, helping me with it. I was stressed. You know, my mental health wasn't the best. My brothers definitely helped me out. You know, my old man, grandfather, you know, my mother helped me out at that time. So I was harboring a lot internally and it did fester a lot, but I was able to at least vent to them and they were able to provide me with, you know, some positive feedback regarding, you know, the conversations that we were having. To me, it's like, cool, like I've never done this. So I'm experiencing a lot that was taken from me. You know, a lot of people are very opinionated regarding, you know, how my daughter's mother and I, how our relationship is. They're very opinionated and, you know, a lot of people, they would try to spark a fire and then I react to it. And then while they're sparking that fire, here I am just feeding all of that energy out. At this point, you know, it's just like, I knew, knowing what I know now, you know, when my daughter was born, I would have been okay. You know, I know at the time, finding out that I was going to be a dad, you know, I was extremely happy. To me, it was like, okay, it's time. You know, it's time to man up, you know, and I was working two jobs at the time, working 13, 14 hours a day, just trying to make sure, you know, I'm doing what I have to do on my part. So being in her kid's lives make me, and this is every day, like this isn't just a one time thing. It's just, how can I be that support for not only her, but the babies, the kids? How can I be that person to comfort them in when they're upset? How can I be that person to offer advice? Or if I was in that scenario, what would I do? How can I try to do my part to make sure that what I'm doing, I would have been able to do with my daughter if the situation was different?

Speaker 2:
[65:40] You mentioned wanting a wife. Is marriage something that you guys have talked about, discussed? Is that something you both want? I know pretty recently, Kail has been very much on the I wanna be a wife train.

Speaker 3:
[65:52] That was discussed very early in the relationship. We've gone through the relationship, failed relationships. We've gone through the, we're talking stages of people in the interim of relationships. To me at least, we've had our fun, quote unquote fun. We've lived, we've learned, we've accepted where we went wrong, but now it's time to make changes. So at this point, I don't wanna a baby mom. Obviously, I understand the IVF route and things like that, but I don't want a baby mom. I want to be able to grow old with somebody who I'm able to-

Speaker 1:
[66:26] Not too old though.

Speaker 3:
[66:27] I wanna grow like 85, 90. I just wanna grow old with somebody. That revolving door, the temporary happiness or gratification, that only lasts so long. I wanna be able, and I said this to her, I was like, I wanna see every phase of your moon. I wanna see when you're the happiest. I wanna see when you're the saddest.

Speaker 1:
[66:44] I feel like you've seen all of that.

Speaker 3:
[66:46] I have. I have at this point. But initially, that's what was discussed. You're not gonna be that same person that I met, because the same person that I met was the happy-go-lucky. There's a little chaos, but life's good. No, I know behind closed doors, behind that smile, behind that happiness, no, like fuck all that. I wanna know who you are. That was discussed. And to me, it was just like, I don't wanna date somebody for six years, seven. Yeah, just to kill time. No, I wanna build.

Speaker 1:
[67:16] I think we've already both done that. That was, just to piggyback off what he said, those things were already sort of discussed early on.

Speaker 3:
[67:23] Yeah, we live and learn. I mean, ultimately, like, you're not born with a blueprint for life. The wisdom that I'll say I have now, when the stove was hot, I had to touch it. Say it four times. I couldn't take what somebody else was telling me. I had to touch it. The wisdom that I have now, if I was 18 years old with this wisdom, shit, I'd probably be a doctor or some shit. But, you know, ultimately, marriage is a goal that I have. You know, that revolving door, when all is said and done, but once that instant gratification is over and done with, like, you're fucking lonely. You're sad.

Speaker 1:
[67:58] But do you think that you want to, you're thinking about marriage with me specifically, or you're thinking about marriage in general? Because that's the other side of it, is like.

Speaker 3:
[68:07] So with your personality is what I love about you the most. So marriage, it wasn't marriage in general. Like, I like the idea of it, like, yo, like I would love to have a wife. But once I got to know you as a person.

Speaker 1:
[68:22] Don't, I'll start crying.

Speaker 3:
[68:23] Don't, you better not. Once I got to know like you as a person, I was like, like she'll be my wife because I ultimately, the wittiness, the humor, the great singing, the openness of how open she is, take me or leave it, you know, that is somebody that I love. Like, I don't want somebody to try to paint the picture that life's great. Once I was able to continue to learn her, continue to understand her, it's like, you don't find many people that you really vibe with. You don't find many people that you really can sit back and just chop it up with. You don't find many people that are, take me as I am, this is who I am.

Speaker 1:
[69:02] It takes me a long time to learn from my mistakes. Like, it ties back into the conversation of like repeating the same mistake over and over again. Having four kids dads, and I start to believe that I, like it really is just the money. Like it's really just what people can get from me. And it's like, because of the nature of this relationship and how it started in a way that was not ideal, is also like, okay, well, I also have to take that into consideration. And I also have to take into like, just all of it, like damaged goods, right? Like I'll always be viewed as Teen Mom, damaged goods, can't keep a man, always being cheated on. Yeah, I've cheated too. And so I think that a lot of it is just like...

Speaker 2:
[69:41] You don't feel worthy.

Speaker 1:
[69:43] Yeah, I don't know how someone like me could feel worthy. When I look at like big picture, the relationships with my kids' dads, there has never, ever, ever, ever been a... Like I put specifically Javi and Elijah on like this pedestal. Even them, they've never done that for me. So it's like, it's hard for me when it's like, okay, I'm reading all the negative comments about myself. My kids' dads have never thanked me for anything. Oh, I'll say Elijah thanked me for the kids, right? Like, so those are the people that I should have, that I was supposed to, that were supposed to love me at some point. It's hard for me to picture myself as like, like I said earlier, like I don't cook. I have a team of people that do things for me. And so it's like, what am I really offering him? Or what was I really offering Elijah? I wasn't really offering them anything. So it's like, am I worthy? Take everything away, take my team away, take my money away. I don't have anything to offer.

Speaker 3:
[70:37] I try to provide a lot of comfort and reassurance, and I try to do my part, and it's a within thing. So all I try to do is just hear her out and just be that emotional support that she needs at that time, because it's hard. I get it, right? Myself, my past ain't the best. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've associated myself with people I shouldn't have associated myself with. I chose instant gratification at times. There was a point in time for me where I was able to buckle down and just look within. And although there's a lot of negativity that's put out on me about social media, on social media, excuse me, I know who I am as a person, but it took me a while. And for her, I feel bad because it's like, you know, she was a kid on TV. She sacrificed a lot. And her, to me, it's like, obviously, you know, she was in a relationship with Jo when she was younger, things like that, but she was a kid having a kid.

Speaker 1:
[71:31] But I feel like in some moments I do know who I am. Like, I think overall, like I have fucked up deeply, deeply, deeply up. And I know that. But I think overall at my core, like I am a good person, but a good person doesn't qualify you as worthy to be a wife. I only know how to sell myself as like a business woman or a mom. I don't know how to sell myself as a wife.

Speaker 3:
[71:52] Can I give you my perspective of you?

Speaker 1:
[71:53] No, because I'll cry.

Speaker 3:
[71:54] Okay, so I'll tell you anyways. My perspective of you, okay? Number one, mom first, okay? You literally put your kids first. No matter what they say on the internet, right? Because they don't see this shit day in and day out. They don't see the 6 a.m. wakeups and 11 o'clock at night just wrapping up. They don't see straight from school, hey, homework, sports. So my viewpoint, my viewpoint is you're a mother first. That to me is the best quality that you have, is you're a mother. Like she's a mother. Like she makes sure her kids go for nothing. And another thing is-

Speaker 1:
[72:33] I can't cook.

Speaker 3:
[72:34] A homemade meal from scratch, right? That's great. Cooking to me isn't a big thing. The biggest thing is you're a mother first. And I love the way that you are a mother. I understand things that happen behind the scenes. I understand the stress that you're through, day in and day out. I'm able to understand your personalities. I'm able to understand sometimes your thought process. I'm able to understand you for who you are. Being able to cook doesn't disqualify you to be a wife. No, there are certain reasons why a man will exit a relationship. Personality is top two. I'm being real. If you are a Debbie Downer, if you're a person who just so negative, if you're a person who doesn't bring positivity, if you're a person who is just always, who can't take accountability, if you're a person who is deflecting everything, your personality can make or break a relationship. And I'm not saying you, but just in general. For you, your personality is why I'm here. It's you as an individual. You're literally like, we see eye to eye so much, it's a bit scary. I wasn't prepared for anything, to be fair.

Speaker 1:
[73:44] Like you weren't prepared for a relationship?

Speaker 3:
[73:45] No, no, I wasn't prepared like to be outed, right? I wasn't prepared for that. I wasn't prepared for, you know, a lot of the behind the scenes things that happen. You know, I just stepped into the shit. So if the relationship and no, I'm not going to be prepared for it because there's going to be a lot of things. There's going to be a lot of shit taken from this. They're going to clip it, right? And they're going to say, oh, this, that, blah, blah, blah. But no, I'm not going to be prepared. This shit's going to be all over the place. And they're going to screen record it or they're going to clip it. They're going to throw it up on TikTok. They're going to do all of that unnecessary shit. Hell no, I ain't going to be prepared. Absolutely not. There's going to be so many opinions and so many lies. Well, there have been so many lies and so many opinions that were told about a lot of the shit that has transpired that I'm not even going to have the mental capacity to try to defend myself, because I didn't even do it the first time. But I'm not, I don't give a fuck about what public eye has to say. I'm not. Are you?

Speaker 1:
[74:44] No, I'm never ready. I'm never ready. See you later.

Speaker 3:
[74:48] Alligator.

Speaker 1:
[75:25] Okay, guys, we're back. You asked for it, and we're delivering. Killer is going on tour. We're super excited for the Fatherless Behavior Tour. 23 cities, three countries, all in one summer. And you guys can check out tour dates and see if we're coming to a city near you on kailllowry.com. And if you want early access to information and announcements, head over to Patreon because you might get it before everyone else.

Speaker 4:
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Speaker 3:
[76:14] It could happen to your kid, and then the way too many funerals.

Speaker 4:
[76:16] The Dr. Phil Podcast, available now on YouTube and all podcast platforms.

Speaker 3:
[76:27] We're coming at you with everything we got.

Speaker 5:
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