transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description.

Speaker 2:
[00:07] This is a Headgum podcast.

Speaker 1:
[00:10] Me and my friends love to take trips together, and we took this trip to Joshua Tree, and I was like, I don't want to stay in a hotel. I want to stay in a really, really, really cute house with a good kitchen, because when I'm going to do a girls trip, I absolutely love, love, love, love to just cook in the kitchen and not have to order room service and not always have to go out to a restaurant or whatever. And look, I love my friends, I really do, but lately, I don't get to see them as much as I like. So when we finally plan a trip together, it has to count. I want every second to be quality time. That's why when I'm traveling with friends, I look to book a stay on Airbnb. Airbnb is great because you can book an entire place to yourself. Next time you're traveling, book a stay on Airbnb so you can actually stay together.

Speaker 3:
[01:02] Hacks is back for its fifth and final season, and so is the Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writers room and how these beloved characters close out their final season.

Speaker 4:
[01:24] Watch Hacks streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to the Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2:
[01:35] I went on this date and I couldn't believe he had gone on a date with me. And very early on in the date, he made it very clear that I was unworthy. And he said, no joke, and I've had this a couple of times on dates, no one's allowed to know that we're on a date. I was like, huh? We can do whatever, and I mean sexual stuff. But no one can know I'm dating a Pakistani. And I was like, huh? The rule back in the day in England was you could date a person of color, but you can't take them home to your family because as you said, your white middle-class family cannot believe that their kid is being plowed by a second-class citizen.

Speaker 1:
[02:19] A second-class citizen. I am blown away that this person said that out loud.

Speaker 2:
[02:26] I've been told this by two people I've dated.

Speaker 1:
[02:30] And what do you say in the moment? Oh baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast from me, Nicole Byer, was trying to figure out why I was so single, even though you could come on an extension cord and tell me it was an Apple charger. My guest today is an award-winning personality actor and producer who you know and love from his decade-long run as the fashion expert on Queer Eye. He hosts a brand new comedy series, Honorable Gays, where he's judging the internet's wildest moral dilemmas. Now on YouTube. I'm so excited. He's here. It's Tan France.

Speaker 2:
[03:26] Oh my God. I can't match the energy. You've got so much wonderful energy. I'm like, it is the afternoon. I've not had coffee. You've got your energy to drink. I don't.

Speaker 1:
[03:36] Do you want one?

Speaker 2:
[03:37] No, no, no. I've got water. I'm all right.

Speaker 1:
[03:38] How did you meet your husband?

Speaker 2:
[03:41] Online. So, 19 years ago, whatever 2008 was, was that 19, 18 years? I don't keep track.

Speaker 1:
[03:50] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[03:51] So 2008, I was in Utah. Save your jokes, Internet. I was in Utah. Love Utah. Still live there. And I met somebody online who I thought was just going to be a hawker.

Speaker 1:
[04:05] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[04:06] And on a website called Connection that does not exist anymore.

Speaker 1:
[04:08] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[04:09] Connection with an ex.

Speaker 1:
[04:11] They made their connection.

Speaker 5:
[04:12] They said, got to pack up.

Speaker 2:
[04:13] They did it. They got the water done. So I went on Connection, was not going to date and met this one man who was just wonderful. And then a couple of dates and I was like, ah, shit. I like this person, which is the worst when you just want, you know when you don't want to date.

Speaker 1:
[04:30] When you're like, I'm trying to slug it up.

Speaker 2:
[04:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:33] And then you're like, oh, no, I think I'm going to get locked down.

Speaker 2:
[04:36] That was exactly it. For six months, I'm like, I'm going to be on like a slot tour. And it didn't happen. I met this partner and on day five, he told me he loved me. And I said, no, no, no, that's that's way too soon. But internally, I was like, fuck, I love him too. But I didn't tell him. I know. I did say, look, it's very clear you're new to dating because he was very new to gay dating. And I was like, you just knew at this, you don't love me. You just like me a lot. And then about a month and a half later, I was like, yeah, I'll marry you.

Speaker 1:
[05:06] A month and a half later?

Speaker 2:
[05:07] We didn't get married a month and a half later. But we did talk about marriage. I was like, yeah, I'd marry you. He was like, I'd marry you. We got married a year later.

Speaker 1:
[05:13] Oh my goodness. What a whirlwind.

Speaker 2:
[05:16] It was a whirlwind. But we did move in together three months later. And I know that's also insane. But when you know, you know.

Speaker 1:
[05:21] Yes, when you know, you know, you can't like, yeah, like why fight it?

Speaker 2:
[05:25] Why fight it? I tried. I swear to God I tried.

Speaker 1:
[05:28] You what?

Speaker 2:
[05:29] I tried to fight it. I swear I tried to fight it. I'm not going to get married at 25. I'm a child bride. That's never going to happen. But it happened.

Speaker 1:
[05:38] But it happened.

Speaker 2:
[05:38] And it worked.

Speaker 1:
[05:39] I love that. So you moved in three months after dating.

Speaker 2:
[05:44] I need you to know something, though. It wasn't just because I was, if I was living in England, that would make me kind of crazy to live with somebody I just know for three months. I, he lived in America. I lived in England. And so I could come here for like up to six months at a time. So I just came here and I was going to get a hotel for three to six months.

Speaker 1:
[06:03] Yes, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[06:05] So I lived, so I was going to stay with him for a few weeks and then just ended up once. I know that sounds crazy.

Speaker 1:
[06:12] No, it doesn't. It sounds really sweet.

Speaker 2:
[06:14] It was very romantic.

Speaker 1:
[06:15] I really love that. Wait, you had a clothing line.

Speaker 2:
[06:18] I did.

Speaker 1:
[06:19] And it was in Utah and it catered to the Mormon sensibilities. How does one find that neat?

Speaker 2:
[06:28] You know what? Okay, here's the thing. Do you own any businesses? A lot of entertainers have like a side hustle. No business. Okay. No, it's okay. So to be fair, it's always a fucking nightmare. Anyway, when I first moved to Utah, I was working in fashion in England and my friends who I had met, most of them were Mormon people, which I didn't know what that was when I first moved to Utah. I'd never heard the word outside of America. It wasn't, especially in England, it wasn't really a thing. And so I came to Utah and I really wanted to stay and I'd met this guy who I was crazy about, and I needed a visa and the best way to get a visa or the easiest was to get a work visa. And there were no fashion brands, obviously, it's Utah. But there was this one apparel company that made clothes for Mormon women. I was like, okay, I'll work there. So I started working there and then when they got sold, I was like, there's this massive audience here who just needs nice clothes. Why don't I make them? And if you find a niche in business, you are gold. Like it's so hard to find. This was 2009. Even in 2009, everyone was doing everything. Like you couldn't find a business that no one was really doing. But once mine had sold, this company had sold, there was nobody else doing it. It was like, why wouldn't I do this?

Speaker 1:
[07:48] That's very smart.

Speaker 2:
[07:49] I think so. And so that's how I made it.

Speaker 1:
[07:52] That's... And what is the Mormon sensibility? It's a...

Speaker 2:
[07:57] Okay. They wear what they call garments. So clothing under their clothing. It's that underwear that comes down close to the knee. And it's like a capstie on the shoulder. And then comes up to like here. Sorry, this is a podcast. If you're not watching this, you have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like my rib bone. What do you call that bone? Anyway, that high chest, your high chest. Yeah, high chest. And so everything else, they can show their arms. They can show their legs. They're just, you can't show as much as you could if you weren't not Mormon. And so it was easy to create clothes for them because at that time, 2010, the style was midi or maxi skirts or maxi dresses. And so I was like, I can do this. Easy. And so no one knew that it was Mormon clothing. I ended up selling most of my product to the likes of Nordstrom, Forever 21, Target. Like they had no idea we were making clothes for Mormon women.

Speaker 1:
[08:54] That's really interesting.

Speaker 2:
[08:56] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:56] Because it's like you find the niche. You're like, I'm making it for these people. But then everybody else wants it, y'all can have it too.

Speaker 2:
[09:03] So I didn't really make my money from the Mormons who I adore. I made my money from just regular America, thinking that they were just regular clothes for them. Interesting. I know. Wild.

Speaker 1:
[09:16] And how do you, I don't really understand fashion.

Speaker 2:
[09:20] Tell me about it.

Speaker 1:
[09:21] So like I was-

Speaker 2:
[09:24] No one should.

Speaker 1:
[09:26] I was like perusing the internet. And I was like reading about Halston and how he started designing and then Bloomingdale or somebody was like, oh, we like your stuff and they put it in the store. So how does that happen?

Speaker 2:
[09:41] Okay, gosh, this is so inside baseball. I don't really know what that term means. I'm not a sports person, but I think that this is what I'm about to do inside baseball. So what you do is you design a collection, you take it to what we call a trade show, and you showcase that collection. You've got one of everything, two of everything. And then buyers come around from major American retailers and say, if you make this but put my label in it, I'll sell it in my store as a, let's say this wasn't the case, but let's say, for example, you put it in your store as a, they used to have a brand called Gibson at Nordstrom. But that wasn't made by a company called Gibson, that is just made by some random company and they just put in a label called Gibson because that's a Nordstrom brand. Yeah, that's how that works. That's wild. It's called white label or private label. So you design a collection, it's not designed by Nordstrom, it's designed by somebody like me. And then they just buy thousands of it and ask you to put their label in it.

Speaker 1:
[10:42] This is like blowing my mind.

Speaker 2:
[10:44] Isn't that interesting?

Speaker 1:
[10:45] That is really interesting.

Speaker 2:
[10:46] So most major department stores have a bunch of brands that you think are theirs. And they're owned by them, but they're not designing a single thing.

Speaker 1:
[10:53] But they're just going to trade shows and picking out things that they think their customers will want.

Speaker 2:
[10:57] Yeah. And then sometimes you'll do like an exclusive. So you'll say, okay, I've already sold this collection to, let's say, for example, a Target, but Nordstrom want it, but they don't want the same product as a Target. And so you'll say, well, I can do that, but I'll do it in a silk instead of a cotton, or I'll do that in blue instead of green. So they can only get that thing from your stores.

Speaker 1:
[11:20] This is blowing me away.

Speaker 2:
[11:21] Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1:
[11:22] It is crazy.

Speaker 2:
[11:23] And I didn't know any of that until I moved to Utah and started working with this Mormon company. I'm like, oh, great. I can do my version of it. And what is so wild that I think is that all these Mormon girls were walking around not knowing that the product they were wearing was made by this gay Muslim man from England. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[11:44] You never know who's behind your clothing.

Speaker 2:
[11:45] You just don't know. You just don't know who thought that up for you. But yeah, it was me dressing Mormon women.

Speaker 1:
[11:52] That is so wild. And when you were in England, did you have aspirations to be on television?

Speaker 2:
[11:58] No.

Speaker 1:
[11:59] How did that come about?

Speaker 2:
[12:01] Like that's insane. There weren't Pakistanis on TV. I literally had never ever seen anything like it. And then it all happened very strangely. I was selling my businesses. I ended up having four. And one of my businesses, my last business was with an influencer, a very successful American influencer who had won my product many times at Fashion Week. And she was like, is there any chance you would help me launch my business? I don't know how to do what you do, but she was famous, she was internet famous. And so I was like, yeah, sure. Started working together. And Bravo wanted to make a TV show potentially about her and her sisters. They are like the Mormon-Kardashians. There's four of them. They're all influencers. They are very entertaining. And actually, sorry, I'm telling a lie. That wasn't, it wasn't Bravo. It was just this manager who wanted to create this show, but we took it to Bravo. And so we, they wanted to do this sizzle reel. A sizzle reel, for those of you who don't know, is like a trailer. And they said, but it's too white. There's only white people on the show because we were in Utah. And she was like, well, I do have a partner who's like my 50-50 partner. He's brown, he's Pakistani, he's British, he's Muslim and he's queer. And they were like, shit.

Speaker 1:
[13:23] Wow, Jacks, all the boxes.

Speaker 2:
[13:25] We could have all that for one person, one fee. They were like, yeah. And so she was like, but he doesn't want to be on the show. What can he just be like in the background when I'm at work? And I was like, yeah, fine. I don't, I'm definitely, I'm not one for TV. I'm a businessman. And they were like, okay, we'll do that. So I went to these pitches. We pitched it up rather. We went, we came here for like three days, met with every network that was available. And at that time, 10 years ago, there was still every network.

Speaker 1:
[13:54] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[13:54] So I went to every network. And then we went for the Bravo meeting, the lady at Bravo. Did you ever work at Bravo? You only did Netflix, right?

Speaker 1:
[14:02] Netflix. I don't think I've done anything for Bravo. No, I haven't.

Speaker 2:
[14:05] There was this major byline, the main person at Bravo who dealt with Unscripted. She sat at this boardroom meeting with us. All these girls were there. And I only said a few things, but she said, listen, you girls are lovely, but a reality show will ruin your family. If you're willing to do that, take it. But it will. You seem just happy. You don't need the money. They were very wealthy girls. You don't need the money. You've got so much to lose.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] I'm dying.

Speaker 2:
[14:36] Which is wild.

Speaker 1:
[14:36] Your whole family will be ruined.

Speaker 2:
[14:39] But you know, if you want to, it's true.

Speaker 1:
[14:41] Who am I?

Speaker 2:
[14:41] Ain't that true though? Like what reality do you, especially about a family, do you see like, they're all going to make it. You know that everyone's getting divorced and not those people, like you just know it. And so, but she turned to me and she was like, you haven't said a lot, but everything you've said, I've really enjoyed. I was like, oh, that's very nice. She said, I'll put, I would put you on TV tomorrow. I was like, oh, lol. She was like, would you come back for a meeting? I was like, absolutely not. I'm not interested in being on TV. I'm only here to be the background guy for these girls. I was like, no, thank you. But that's so nice of you. Left the meeting and then she contacted her friend at Netflix. Her name is Jen Levy, who I love very much. I love Jen Levy. Love Jen Levy. So Jen Levy had come from Bravo. This is a long story. I'm really sorry. It's okay. So Jen Levy had just come from Bravo to head up unscripted at Netflix. And her first show was Queer Eye. And they'd been looking for the style guy in Queer Eye for months and had struggled. And so this Byer at Bravo said, I think I found your guy today. And she was like, okay, let's get him on tape. And I was like, I'm not going on tape. I'm not doing an audition. Will you just do a Skype with us? I was like, no, not interested. I'm not an entertainer. Then finally they convinced me to do the Skype call that changed my life. They said, will you be on this TV show? We've got a real life audition on Thursday. This was like on a Tuesday or Wednesday. And I was like, no, I had no interest. I wasn't like most people in our industry who wanted it.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] Who wanted it.

Speaker 2:
[16:08] I had never tried for it. And all I thought was, God, I feel physically sick at the thought being on camera. And my family was, we were raised so Muslim where we didn't do photos or videos. It was just, and the reason why back in the day, you didn't see many Muslims on TV is because we're not really allowed. That's not a thing that we're really allowed to do.

Speaker 1:
[16:24] I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[16:25] It's seen as a vanity thing. And so we wouldn't typically be on TV. And so it was just so beyond my wildest dreams. And so I thought, I'm not going to go for this audition. They're never going to have me on a show like that. I'm so not what the audience wants. Who wants a Pakistani Muslim gay guy on TV? They just don't. And so I went for the audition thinking, I'm never going to get it. But I am looking for gay friends because I've been so busy with work. I don't have many gay friends. I am dying at this.

Speaker 1:
[16:56] I don't care to do this, but maybe I'll make a friend.

Speaker 2:
[16:59] Literally, that was it. Because I'm a very social person. If I go into this room of 42 gay men, I'm bound to come out with one or two friends. And so I saw it as an excavation for friends. And so because I didn't care, I nailed it.

Speaker 1:
[17:17] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:18] Not to quote you, but yeah, nailed it.

Speaker 1:
[17:20] But I do think people with aspirations of being on camera or have to audition or whatever can borrow a little bit of that. Because the way I go to auditions, and this took a very long time to cultivate, I always go, I might not get it. It might not even be for a real reason. I just might not get it. But I do get to perform for like, you know, 10 minutes today. And if I make someone laugh, maybe they'll like think of it later. Or maybe think of me for something else in the future. But like, honestly, for this time, I'm just going to have a nice time. And usually when I care, or not care, but when I haven't-

Speaker 2:
[17:59] Try the least.

Speaker 1:
[18:00] Yes. I haven't invested like, this is going to change my life. This is it. Like it usually happens. Like my meeting for Nailed It was very much, I kept being like, I think I can do that. I don't know. I've never hosted before. Maybe we do it this way. And then I got it.

Speaker 2:
[18:17] But for a Byer, imagine if you were the Byer, you'd be like, I've seen everyone beg me today. And this bitch comes in here and that's like, I need to win her over. That would be fascinating.

Speaker 1:
[18:28] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[18:28] But I have lost jobs because I'm a little too lackadaisical.

Speaker 1:
[18:32] And they were like, does she care? And I was like, I do, but I don't actually know what you're asking for me. So I've just been responding with what you've been giving me.

Speaker 2:
[18:40] Also, I care, but I'm not desperate.

Speaker 1:
[18:42] Yeah, I'm not desperate. No, I would love to work, but I'm not going to beg for it. That's not it. Did you make any friends at the audition? I did.

Speaker 2:
[18:51] I absolutely did. Because I didn't think I was going to get the show. So you know what's absolutely fucking insane? It's going to sound like absolute bullshit. The five people who ended up being the fab five were, okay, the four, I guess, because I was one of them. So the other four were the people I became friends with and thought, oh, I made friends from this thing, thinking I wasn't going to get the show because we didn't, they don't tell you there. And then if you got the show, there were just five people, sorry, four people that was like, oh, these people are the ones I want to take away from this. There was one other person who was from a different category, but yeah, those five people, I'm like, yeah, I found friends here. And so when I move on from this and don't get the show, I'll keep in touch with these dudes.

Speaker 1:
[19:33] I love that.

Speaker 2:
[19:34] It just so happened to be the people who ended up on the show.

Speaker 1:
[19:37] That's, I, what is that called? Kiss Me?

Speaker 2:
[19:39] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:40] I love that. Did you watch the original show beforehand?

Speaker 2:
[19:44] I'd never seen it.

Speaker 1:
[19:45] I'm obsessed with you. No research, nothing. You said, I'm just going to come in.

Speaker 2:
[19:50] I swear to God, I just did not give a. And I didn't think I was going to get it. So I was like, well, also I didn't, I thought if I watched the show, then I'm going to try and act like that guy. And obviously at that point I knew his name was Carson, but I was like, I'm going to try and emulate that other guy. That seems weird. Cause that's not my person. We are such different people. He's one of the funny, did you ever watch that original? I've seen, I've seen Carson on shows since. He's so fucking funny. And I was like, I'm not a comic. That's not my life. And so I saw, I'm just going to be myself. And if they like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. But I have watched the British one once since. I watched an episode to see what did they do. And so I watched it before I started shooting Queer Eye. Cause I thought, I don't want to be the American version, but I want to know what the Brits do. And I just thought, I'm not doing that. It was really harsh. It was really harsh. I just thought, I can't do that.

Speaker 1:
[20:38] I, the, okay, the original version of Queer Eye was so wild to me because there was so much homophobia.

Speaker 2:
[20:47] Really?

Speaker 1:
[20:48] Yes. Because it'd be like, I don't know, I don't like queers, but I guess this one could dress me. And I'd be like, I don't know. I would coach these people just a little bit, a little bit away from their biases, to sound a little bit more inclusive. I won't say everybody on the show was like that, but there's like a couple of moments where you're like...

Speaker 2:
[21:06] I mean, not to be fair, but not to be fair. This was like 30 years ago.

Speaker 1:
[21:10] Yes, you are right.

Speaker 2:
[21:10] It was different. Oh my gosh. Very, very different. Oh my God. But I thought that that would be the response we got. Even if people were weird with us. Well, I think that this is probably not the way... Okay, I'm not going to speak to the others at all. I think that I'm a little cuntier because I'm British than they were back in the day. So if somebody was like, I don't like homos, I'd say, bitch, who are you talking to? I'm not that one. I would like to believe I'm very kind, but it's a choice I make. And if you want to say something repulsive, I can say something repulsive. I'm not just going to let it go. And so I think that there's a difference in how our show operated.

Speaker 1:
[21:51] How are you... Have you always been secure in who you are? You seem very much like, I know exactly who I am, I know exactly what I want, and I'll figure out how to get it. Was this a thing you learned?

Speaker 2:
[22:03] It was something I learned. Okay. Listen, this is way too Debbie Downer to get into, but I'm just going to say it and I'll try and breeze past it. If you... Being a Pakistani person raised in England in an extremely white community, you learn very quickly to figure out who you are, stand for what you believe in, and learn to figuratively and literally fight. And so, and you learn that from a very young age, I mean, the kind of town where they spray paint like get the fuck out of our country, like shit like that. And so, and that was from day one. It's all I ever knew was hatred towards my people, not everyone. There are amazing people in England, fucking amazing people. But the most...

Speaker 1:
[22:47] But the negative does stand out. And the negative kind of stays with you.

Speaker 2:
[22:50] Yeah. And so, I learned from a really young age, you have to listen to that bullshit, to figure out who you are and be that. And so, that really taught me resilience. And when I came to America and everyone was so fucking nice because they couldn't figure out where I was from, they thought I was Mexican with a weird British accent.

Speaker 1:
[23:07] Really?

Speaker 2:
[23:08] Yeah. Before Queer Eye, I got hola almost every day. Almost every day. And my husband served a Mormon mission in Argentina, so he speaks perfect Spanish. So, he would have to say to anyone who was speaking Spanish, he doesn't speak your language, he's not one of you guys. All the racists would say hola to be racist. He'd be like, I know why I speak Spanish, he's not one of you.

Speaker 1:
[23:34] Just walking around Utah, confusing people.

Speaker 2:
[23:36] Confusing everyone. And so, when I got to Utah, everyone was so friendly, accidentally racist, but very friendly. And so, I didn't feel like I needed to be as cunty as I had to be in the UK.

Speaker 1:
[23:52] Just like let your guard down a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[23:53] Yeah. I get that. So it helped me really decide how to navigate myself in this world, navigate this world. And so, Queer Eye, the version of me that you see on TV, I think is a mashup of really shocking existence until I was in my early 20s. And then this weird dream existence in Utah. Which means that I get to be nice, but also don't piss me off.

Speaker 1:
[24:18] Don't mess with me.

Speaker 2:
[24:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:19] I like that. I like, you know, I can be kind until I don't need to be.

Speaker 2:
[24:23] Yeah. Look, I did your show. I've seen you many times on red carpets, whatever. You're always so lovely, but I know for a fact that you could cut a bitch if you needed to.

Speaker 3:
[24:32] Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[24:34] And I don't hate that about myself. I felt a lot of shame for a long time thinking, gosh, I can be quite aggressive when I feel attacked. But now I just think, no, that's okay.

Speaker 1:
[24:42] Yeah, it's absolutely okay.

Speaker 2:
[24:43] You shouldn't attack me.

Speaker 1:
[24:44] Yes. I fully agree. Sometimes I have to go, don't hurt that person's feeling.

Speaker 2:
[24:50] Yeah, because it's too easy.

Speaker 1:
[24:52] I can hurt your feeling if you come at me in a wild way.

Speaker 2:
[24:56] Yeah. But I also think, well, you were looking for that fight. You thought because I was a prissy gay, because I know I'm the prissiest of gays. And especially when I had my high hair, people were like, my high hair? I can take that bitch down in a second. I'm like, okay, try.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[29:50] Okay. I'll phrase it this way. I was desperate to date from a very young age.

Speaker 1:
[29:57] I identify with that.

Speaker 2:
[29:58] Oh my God. When I was like 13, I was like, get me a fucking boyfriend. So I started out real early desperate. But I think because I was gay, dating wasn't as accessible. Like, are you queer? Are you straight?

Speaker 1:
[30:16] That's funny. Mars just asked me that.

Speaker 2:
[30:18] Oh, sorry. Can I ask?

Speaker 1:
[30:19] You can ask. This is so like woo woo, but I don't identify really as anything. I'm dating a nice man. I've dated women. I don't seek out dating other genders besides men. So I don't claim to be queer or LGBTQIA plus because I'm not walking the walk. So I'm like, I don't want to take up space where maybe I'm not doing the work.

Speaker 2:
[30:46] Sure, sure, sure. This is obviously wrong to make an assumption, but I just always assumed you were just fluid in whatever way.

Speaker 1:
[30:54] I am.

Speaker 2:
[30:54] OK, great.

Speaker 1:
[30:55] Very fluid, don't care, but never close a door because that's insane to me.

Speaker 2:
[30:58] Great. OK, good. OK, I'm glad I assumed that.

Speaker 1:
[31:01] Ah, munched a puss.

Speaker 2:
[31:03] I have not. At school, straights would date because it was easier to ask another person out of the opposite gender, whereas asking another guy out would have been suicide in school for me. And so I didn't date until I was slightly older, but still 16. I think that's relatively young. I think for straights, that's old to have your first, like, partner.

Speaker 1:
[31:31] Maybe, because I do feel like in middle school people were dating. And I was like, how is this happening?

Speaker 2:
[31:36] Everyone was dating in middle school. How? I just used to have to pretend that I was celibate because I was Muslim, but everyone was dating and I really wanted to date. Oh my God, I wanted to date. Also in England, I think that we just have sex much younger. So most people are having sex at 13, 14. So I was definitely the only virgin in my class.

Speaker 1:
[31:54] Interesting. I feel I grew up, I was chubby so nobody really wanted this. I grew up in an all white neighborhood. So you did?

Speaker 2:
[32:03] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[32:04] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[32:05] California?

Speaker 1:
[32:06] No, no, I grew up in New Jersey.

Speaker 2:
[32:08] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[32:09] In Middletown, New Jersey. So I feel, I mean, I don't want to speak for the people who I grew up with, but I don't know if you're bringing a black girl home to meet your, you know, middle class, right-leaning family. So I was a late bloomer.

Speaker 2:
[32:28] But yeah, what's your idea of late though?

Speaker 1:
[32:32] I didn't go on my first date until I was like in my 20s.

Speaker 2:
[32:36] Okay. Okay. That is a late bloomer. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[32:38] But like everyone else in high school was like, they were like fucking and I was like, how is this happening?

Speaker 2:
[32:44] How are you doing it? I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 1:
[32:47] Same.

Speaker 2:
[32:47] And also, I think I was scared of everything. I was scared of getting whatever, because in England, we really hit on the SEDs, SEDs, like you've always got to use, it was just really hitting hard. I mean, I guess it was the 90s. It was-

Speaker 1:
[33:03] Yeah, it was like dare and-

Speaker 2:
[33:04] Shortly after the AIDS pandemic. So it was.

Speaker 1:
[33:09] I feel like here it was like abstinence. Don't do it.

Speaker 2:
[33:13] No, in Europe, they're like, fuck it, whatever you want.

Speaker 1:
[33:15] See, that's what it should be everywhere. If you're going to fuck anyway, here's a condom.

Speaker 2:
[33:20] Yeah. And so I was just, they really hit it hard. You've got to use protection. You could get really sick, and especially if you're a queer person. And so that really scared me a lot. So for so many reasons, I was like, I'll, as much as I want it, I'll wait a little bit. And then your initial question was, did I date a lot? In England, we have a term which is, how long is a piece of string? Which is, how do you gauge that? It's all relative.

Speaker 1:
[33:43] How long is a piece of string?

Speaker 2:
[33:45] I would say, I dated very little compared to most queer men, but it felt like a lot for me. I often had a partner, but they were very long-term. So I started dating at 16. I was with him until I was 21. Oh my God. Yeah. At 21, I started dating somebody for a couple of years. And then I was single for six months, then I met my husband. So not a lot. I was always dating, but not a lot.

Speaker 1:
[34:12] But not a lot. Just not a lot of people, but in relationship.

Speaker 2:
[34:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:16] Dating someone from 16 to, you said 21?

Speaker 2:
[34:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:21] That's such a long time. And during like some real formative years, what was that like to grow up with somebody and having them as a partner?

Speaker 2:
[34:30] Shit. Okay. I still love this guy. He's wonderful. But we were kids. I mean, he was three years older. So it felt like he was a grown up. But it felt weird to know that I was going through things that felt so old to him. Like again, three years difference in your teens is a massive difference. So I was going through stuff and feelings that he had already moved past from. And also I wasn't his first boyfriend. I was like his fourth or fifth boyfriend. And so I think the reason why, I mean, it was never going to last anyway, he was my first boyfriend, but it didn't work because there was so much life happening between 16 and 21. And so it just wasn't conducive to being in a long term relationship. I think what would have made sense is to date him for a couple of years, move on to somebody else and learn to grow with somebody else, as opposed to trying to grow with somebody who was already grown.

Speaker 1:
[35:29] That does make a lot of sense.

Speaker 2:
[35:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:31] Did you go to college?

Speaker 2:
[35:32] I did.

Speaker 1:
[35:33] Were you in the same school or were you long distance?

Speaker 2:
[35:37] So he moved to the city that I ended up going to college in, and so we lived together.

Speaker 1:
[35:43] Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:
[35:44] Yeah. So we didn't date in college, anybody else.

Speaker 1:
[35:48] So you broke up with that person? No.

Speaker 2:
[35:51] He broke up with me. Thank you so much for giving me that edit. I would love you to give me the positive edit.

Speaker 1:
[35:57] You broke up with me.

Speaker 2:
[35:59] Yeah. Both my boyfriends before my husband definitely broke up with me.

Speaker 1:
[36:03] So did you date in between partners or were you like, no, and then hopped in?

Speaker 2:
[36:09] Not date. I slept around.

Speaker 1:
[36:12] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[36:13] But I did not date between partners. And I would have liked to have dated, but it just didn't turn into that. It was just a, let's have a bit of fun.

Speaker 1:
[36:21] So you've never been like taken out to dinner.

Speaker 2:
[36:24] I have.

Speaker 1:
[36:25] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[36:25] So, okay. No, no, we had, they were dinner and then. And then it. Yeah, yeah. I don't, gosh, maybe I'm wrong. It has been over 20 years. My memory's not great. Maybe I did just do one night stands, but I don't remember doing a one night stand. Somebody's probably going to comment saying, We had a- Actually. Yeah. We slept together in 1998. But I went on, I would go for dinners. I think I was too scared to just go to someone's house. Yeah. And I wouldn't have had anyone at my house. I was way too chicken shit for that. And so I would go for dinner or lunch first, assess the situation and then, do you want to come back to mine or can I come back to yours? I have had a couple of shockers. I've had a couple of really bad dates.

Speaker 1:
[37:11] Want to tell me about them?

Speaker 2:
[37:12] Sure do. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[37:15] Sure do.

Speaker 2:
[37:15] I know that this person probably fucking hates me now that he sees me on TV. Because, so this person wanted to go out on a date. I had met him online and I wasn't really that interesting going out on a date. He wasn't really my type. He was younger than me and I've never been into younger men ever. I've only ever dated older. This was the only time I've been on a date with somebody younger. I'm usually into like five years, probably closer to 10 years older than me. I don't have daddy issues. But I like a man who's got his shit together. And so I agreed to this date and I was probably 21, 22. He was only a couple of years younger, but that was a big deal for me. And he wanted us to go out for dinner. I said, let's do lunch. Let's committal.

Speaker 1:
[38:07] Yeah, don't ruin my night.

Speaker 2:
[38:08] Yeah. That's the night I could spend in with cake. Like I don't need to ruin it with a bad date. And so we went out to this pub. It was in Manchester. Have you ever been toured in Manchester?

Speaker 3:
[38:19] No.

Speaker 1:
[38:21] I've just been to London.

Speaker 2:
[38:23] In Manchester, we have something called the Gay Village. And it's like our main hub for the Queers in the north of England. So it's a whole long street full of gay bars, gay restaurants, and you are safe there. And so we went there. He turned up and I could tell that something was off. As soon as he sat at that table, he was like, you're looking peaky. And he was like, I'm absolutely fine.

Speaker 1:
[38:43] What do you mean by peaky?

Speaker 2:
[38:44] Oh, peaky is like pale and ill.

Speaker 1:
[38:48] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[38:49] But that's not how he looked on his pictures. And I just thought, this isn't just, you don't like your pictures, like you seem sick, sick.

Speaker 1:
[38:55] Oh no.

Speaker 2:
[38:55] And then it came out within the first few minutes that he was really hungover, extremely hungover. And I thought, gosh, you knew two days ago that we were doing this date and you pushed for this. I didn't push for this. It was clear that you really wanted this date. And so I've met you and you're in this date and he was like, I just need to use the restroom real quick. Went to the restroom and had gone for about 15, 20 minutes. I thought, gosh, is it diarrhea? Like, what is it? Whatever it is, I don't, I'm not about it.

Speaker 3:
[39:26] I don't want this.

Speaker 2:
[39:27] Again, I'm a very prissy gay. As these mean gays once called me on the internet, I'm a deodorant gay, which means that I'm a gay who likes deodorant and wants to smell of a fragrance, not my body odor. That's no judgment.

Speaker 3:
[39:39] So funny.

Speaker 2:
[39:40] It's so funny, but such a weird judgment.

Speaker 1:
[39:43] It is a weird judgment. It's like, I'm going to read you the house down. You want to smell good? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[39:48] Well, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:49] Yeah, I do. And I get no judgment if you're into the other stuff. Yeah. But that's just not for me. And so he hadn't come back for a while. And then finally the barman, it was, there were next to no people there. It was a pub. So we were having lunch at a pub. The barman came over and he was like, hey, when he gets back, you guys are going to have to leave. And I was like, excuse me? He was like, he has puked all over that restroom and it's fucking destroyed. You guys are going to have to go. And I was like, oh my God, I can't believe they think that he's like with me. And he's destroyed this bathroom. And I've never been asked to leave anywhere because of my decorum. And so I was like, hey, would you do me a favor? Would you let him know I'm gone? I need you to know, this is a first date. I don't know this person. I'm going. And he was like, wait, you serious? I was like, yeah, I'm going. And so I left and then I blocked him and I have no idea what happened with this dude.

Speaker 1:
[40:47] I've never been asked to leave because of my decorum. I, that's wild.

Speaker 2:
[40:56] It was a horrible.

Speaker 1:
[40:56] That is truly wild. I don't understand how people fuck up bathrooms like that.

Speaker 2:
[41:05] How could you puke so, to be fair, I have once, only once, it was in my own home.

Speaker 1:
[41:09] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[41:10] I once puked so badly that I thought, sorry, is this too much?

Speaker 1:
[41:13] No.

Speaker 2:
[41:14] Okay. I once thought I was very sad. I had the flu or something. This was many years ago, but I thought I was puking into the toilet, but somehow it sprayed in the most insane way that it did end up on the walls. I'm like, my face is, my mouth is direct. How did it end up there? So it can happen.

Speaker 1:
[41:35] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[41:36] It can happen.

Speaker 1:
[41:36] It simply never happened to me. That is wild to show up on a first date that hung over. That like you're sick. Yes, absolutely. Don't see somebody like that. That's why I love that you were like, actually you can let him know that I...

Speaker 2:
[41:52] Yeah. The thought of seeing him, because I would have to be horrible and say, you turned up to this date so hung over and have embarrassed me. I live here. I'm here.

Speaker 1:
[42:05] I might come back here.

Speaker 2:
[42:06] To be fair, I was at that pub a lot. It was my local. It's my local.

Speaker 1:
[42:11] That is wild.

Speaker 2:
[42:12] It was absolutely horrible. Then do you want one more? Yes. Me and my first boyfriend, we broke up a lot and we had a lot of breaks. They typically lasted about three or four weeks. I was raised in a place called Yorkshire, in a small town in Yorkshire, and then I moved to Manchester. In Yorkshire, I went on a date with somebody, and I should have known it wasn't going to go well. I should have known not to date in my hometown. Not to date in my hometown? If you're a minority, don't date in your hometown. I went on this date, and he was so cute. God, I was so attracted to him. He was from my work, and I had the biggest crush on him, and I couldn't believe he was. I looked undateable, definitely undateable in my teens. I had to really grow into my ears, nose. I've got very large features, and I still have very large features. I know my issues. I've come to terms with them.

Speaker 1:
[43:15] You're stunning.

Speaker 2:
[43:16] Look, I'm fine with my appearance, but younger, no one wanted it. That was okay. That was okay.

Speaker 1:
[43:22] I identify with that. I was very pimply.

Speaker 2:
[43:24] Yeah. Every one of us, well, actually, the people who look gorgeous in their teens, I'm like, how? But I was one of those people, and I think it's a good thing. You should be weird looking as a teen.

Speaker 1:
[43:35] I agree. It helps you get a personality.

Speaker 2:
[43:38] It's the reason why we get to be on TV. We were not gorgeous kids. That's okay. And so I went on this date and I couldn't believe he had gone on a date with me. And very early on in the date, he made it very clear that I was unworthy. And he said, no joke, and I've had this a couple of times on dates, no one's allowed to know that we're on a date. I was like, huh? We can do whatever, and I mean sexual stuff. But no one can know I'm dating a Pakistani. And I was like, huh? And then I hid that a few times after that. The rule back in the day in England was, you could date a person of color, but you can't date them home to your family. Because as you said, your white middle-class family cannot believe that their kid is being plowed by a second-class citizen.

Speaker 1:
[44:31] A second-class citizen. I am blown away that this person said that out loud.

Speaker 2:
[44:38] I've been told this by two people I've dated.

Speaker 1:
[44:44] And what do you say in the moment?

Speaker 2:
[44:48] Do you know what? It's so stupid. And I hate that version of me and I'm really angry at that version of me. I said, yeah, I get it. I didn't go on. I didn't continue to go on dates. But I was like, yeah, no, because I did know. Yeah, I know. What do you say to that?

Speaker 1:
[45:05] I honestly don't know what I would say.

Speaker 2:
[45:10] So you just say, okay.

Speaker 1:
[45:10] Yeah. In the moment, I think I would just say, okay, and then come to terms with it later because it is such a shocking thing that somebody is like, that's what I'm going to say to that person.

Speaker 2:
[45:20] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:21] That I can date them, but they're not worthy of me sharing them with the world.

Speaker 3:
[45:26] That is so wild.

Speaker 2:
[45:28] One of his parents worked where we all worked. It was a massive call center, and so we needed to make sure his dad never found out. It wasn't because he was gay, it wasn't because he was gay, it was just I'm a Pakistani.

Speaker 1:
[45:39] It was just your ethnicity.

Speaker 2:
[45:41] Yeah. Yeah. You need to see real England. It's not at all London. Pakistanis in particular, we are truly the untouchables.

Speaker 1:
[45:52] Really?

Speaker 2:
[45:53] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[45:53] That's so wild to me.

Speaker 2:
[45:55] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[45:56] I guess, I mean, it's so silly for me to sit here and be like, I don't understand racism, but like I actually don't.

Speaker 2:
[46:04] I don't.

Speaker 1:
[46:05] You know what I mean? It's like, why is this person deemed less than-

Speaker 2:
[46:10] I know. I do want to also add that there are wonderful people.

Speaker 1:
[46:15] Yes, of course.

Speaker 2:
[46:16] Lovely people in my hometown. They were just, yeah, the ones that I dated just, yeah. The crazy thing is, I actually know that he, that is how he had to behave.

Speaker 1:
[46:29] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[46:30] Because he wouldn't have been able to take me home.

Speaker 1:
[46:32] Yes. But then it's also like, well, do I just like stay in the shadows or do I find somebody who like is proud to date me and will take me home and will shield me from what their parents have to say?

Speaker 2:
[46:47] And here's my real, real answer to that. And I've said this, I did a book tour and I've said this to every person I can tell. Sometimes if you're struggling with dating, maybe that's just not the place for you. And geography is important for somebody like me. Geography is important. I won the geographical lottery by being raised in the Western world where I wasn't raised in Pakistan in a village where life would have been much harder. So I was at least able to come out, potentially come out as a gay person and be able to stay alive because of that or even, or despite that. However, I knew that I was never going to be able to date happily, openly in England, but I knew that Americans didn't know what I am. And so I knew, because I'd been coming here since 17, I'd come to New York every opportunity I got, every few months I would come to New York and I'd watch the way these people treated me. And they didn't know I was just, I just got to be a person and I can't even tell you, this sounds so ludicrous and I know this is way too much for a podcast. But what that does for a person's psyche is so insane. It gives you a confidence that you never dreamt possible. And it gives you hope that you never dreamt possible. And so I'd come to America and think they just, they might just like me for, and they might just hate me for me. But they don't hate me because I'm Pakistani British. They don't hate me because I'm Muslim. They don't hate me because I'm brown. I'm just exotic. Isn't that insane?

Speaker 1:
[48:27] It is insane. And it is interesting because you were like, I come here and I get to feel better. And it's, I think it's because you have an accent.

Speaker 2:
[48:38] Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1:
[48:38] Because it's like you're brown, but then you have an accent and then you open your mouth and people here go, oh, not one of them.

Speaker 2:
[48:45] If I were brown and I talked like this, you would not have this problem at all. Like the problem is, sorry, I'm allowed to do that. You can't. The problem is, is that they, they, they...

Speaker 1:
[48:56] It really just threw me. I was like, whoa, it came out of nowhere.

Speaker 2:
[48:59] It's how we think. Whereas as soon as I speak this way, it negates everything else. And they think no matter what I thought of you, this is the case with Idris, for example.

Speaker 1:
[49:12] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[49:13] Idris wouldn't be Idris without this accent. That's just a fact.

Speaker 1:
[49:16] It is. There's a lot of black actors who are English, who I think are afforded more opportunities because they have that accent and they're not seen as black Americans. It is really interesting.

Speaker 2:
[49:30] Yeah. Ever since I've had a consciousness, I've seen and understood that privilege of having a British accent. And as I said, I won the geographical lottery. I got this accent naturally. Okay. A lot of people won't say naturally. I don't speak like a Yorkshire person. My parents were really particular about us not having a regional accent. It's easier to get work in England if you have just sort of generic accent. And so if we said something that sounded too Yorkshire, no, we don't say it that way. You say it this way. And so that gave me the luxury to be able to be appreciated by foreigners because they're like, yeah, he's brown, but he is British. I wouldn't be an entertainer, Nicole. I would not have gotten that Netflix job without this accent. I know for a fact.

Speaker 1:
[50:15] That's really fucking interesting that your parents knew.

Speaker 2:
[50:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:18] It's like, I have to give my brown child a leg up where it's like, they're just English. I don't know where they grew up. I have no idea what kind of social inequalities they had growing up. I just know that they're English. That's interesting.

Speaker 2:
[50:32] Yeah, because my parents knew being from Yorkshire, the small town, people, if I ever wanted to go to a city, I wouldn't get a job because regional accents are not desired or used to not be desirable.

Speaker 1:
[50:43] Damn.

Speaker 2:
[50:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[50:51] Some mornings, I wake up late and realize I have about four minutes to look like a functioning human before I have to be out the door. I used to panic and start grabbing a million different beauty products. But lately, I've realized that less is actually so much more. With Jones Road Beauty, I've started using their Just Enough Tinted Moisturizer. It's a super lightweight formula that feels smooth on my skin and hides any redness, but it feels like I'm wearing nothing at all. Then I go with the Miracle Balm, which is the ultimate no-fuss multitasker. I use it on my little fingies to swipe it on as a highlighter, even a bronzer, or even as a simple blush. It is super simple, and I'm done in less than a minute, and you have to grab their new Lip Recharge. It is a powerful lip treatment that hydrates like a balm, but gives you a soft shine of a gloss. It has a cooling metal applicator that feels so good on your lips, and the formula is never sticky or tacky. Try modern-day makeup that's clean, strategic and multi-functional for effortless routines. For a limited time, my listeners are getting a free shimmer face oil on their first purchase when they use code DATEME at checkout. Just head to jonesroadbeauty.com and use code DATEME at checkout. After your purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please, support my show and tell them, me, I sent you. I'm doing a massive closet purge lately because I'm officially over buying clothes that look like a total rag after a couple of washes. I'm trying to actually own things that are well made and Quince is a great resource for this. They make clothes that'll be your staple pieces but without any crazy markup you would find from other brands. Quince uses premium stuff like 100%, European linen, organic cotton, and super soft denim. And most styles start around $50. That nice man in my life, I got him this like short sleeve knit polo. It's this really nice olive color and it really looks nice on him. And every time I see it on him I go, Oh my God, I can't wait to rip that off of you. But guess what? It doesn't rip because it's made with quality. Refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/date me for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/date me for free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com/date me. Here's a question about dating. When you started Queer Eye, did people fill up your DMs being like, No. Ugh, that was so quick.

Speaker 2:
[53:36] No. The reason why I remember that is because it was very painful. You know, it's a really weird feeling. So I stopped looking at DMs for a long time. But when the first year, when you first become...

Speaker 1:
[53:49] It's exciting. You want to see what people are saying, if they like you. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[53:54] I know that you can help it, but I couldn't help it. And so I scoured, no one. And then I swear to God, this is true. Two years ago, okay, maybe the dates are wrong, but the story is true. I cut my hair, whatever the date was, I cut my hair and I used to have this pom. A bouffant. Yes. And then I changed it to this. I just wanted to change. I just didn't want that. And so, and I was going through a midlife crisis, I was about 10, 40, I was like, let's change my life. Let's blow it up. And so, I changed my hair and then I did look at my DMs and I got inappropriate DMs every day. And I was so confused. I even talked about it on my Instagram saying, it's so weird that just because I changed my hair, I became all of a sudden sexual to you. Like, that was nasty shit and those DMs and I just thought, because of my hair, my hair made me seem frigid, wild.

Speaker 1:
[54:57] That is wild. And I, you know what? I love it. I love it. You did a change and then the men were like, well now...

Speaker 2:
[55:06] I'm about to tell a story that's not mine and I hope, I'm going to text this person after to make sure this is okay. Do you know a gay social media icon, in my opinion, Eric Cerdeno? Do you know who this is?

Speaker 1:
[55:21] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[55:22] Okay. So Eric Cerdeno is wonderful and he's been a content creator for quite some time. He was like Forbes 30 under 30 for this year. Content creator is like wonderful kid. And this handsome Mexican boy, gorgeous. He had a certain kind of hair and mustache. That has been his brand for years. He shaved it off like two weeks ago. And he knows what my change was. And I've told him and he texted me to say, you know what Tan, you are so fucking right. I shaved my mustache off, I changed my hair and all of a sudden this has never happened. My DMs are blown up with inappropriate messages. Who knew that a Queer Guy getting a hair cut could do something to the Queer community? It's wild.

Speaker 1:
[56:07] That is wild. That's so funny.

Speaker 2:
[56:10] Yeah. They just need it. So if you're struggling out there dating, especially you gays, change your hair.

Speaker 1:
[56:15] Change your hair, shave your mustache, do something fun.

Speaker 2:
[56:18] I had no idea that was the thing that got them going. They're like, oh, he's willing to change. Oh, fuck him.

Speaker 1:
[56:24] Interesting. Do you know what looks maxing is?

Speaker 2:
[56:28] I don't, I don't. I can't stand it and I want it to stop on my algorithm, but I don't know how to stop it.

Speaker 1:
[56:33] It finally got fed to me and I was like, what? So like men are breaking their bones, so their bones grow back stronger?

Speaker 2:
[56:41] They're doing everything to make themselves look good. I just think, isn't that just like the Hollywood glow up? Like, but you're calling it looks like, but they're taking it to extreme lengths.

Speaker 1:
[56:50] I was like reading up because I was like, I guess I got to read up on it. Some people are doing meth to stay thin. And I said, but there's Ozempic.

Speaker 2:
[57:01] It's not just to stay thin, it's something else. It's something to do with the regrowth of your bones. It's one person in particular, I'm not even going to say his name, but he's like the main guy. And I really want to say to him, actually I don't, I want to say to the people who are watching him, it's just like, it's a glow up. You don't need to do all this shit. You can get filler, botox, do all that, cosmetic surgery, you don't need to go to these lengths to look better. There are other way less painful ways to do this. Chill out.

Speaker 1:
[57:30] I agree. And there's like this air of like, I break my bones so it's masculine. And I'm like, I don't know, why does everything have to be masculine or femi-

Speaker 2:
[57:40] The masculine shit's driving me insane.

Speaker 1:
[57:41] Just get the fucking botox. You're right. Like just get the fillers. What are we doing?

Speaker 2:
[57:46] Also, guys, this is a shocking thing to say, Nicole, you think that just because you break your bones, you're less, you're less effeminate than the guy who gets cosmetic surgery. Like it's the same shit, just a different way of doing it.

Speaker 1:
[57:59] Yes. And honestly, I would say the less precise way of doing it.

Speaker 2:
[58:04] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:05] You're breaking your bones.

Speaker 2:
[58:06] You seem more of an idiot. I'd rather be seen as a more feminine guy than a fucking idiot.

Speaker 1:
[58:15] I agree. Yeah, it's a little bit more fem, but at least I-

Speaker 2:
[58:18] Don't seem psychotic.

Speaker 1:
[58:19] Truly.

Speaker 2:
[58:20] But the worry is, is that these kids are looking at this. And I know a lot of these kids are like, whoa, that's what you do to get hot and masculine. I'm like, no, bitch.

Speaker 1:
[58:28] No, you go to a doctor's office and you say-

Speaker 2:
[58:30] You don't go to Home Depot to get a fucking hammer.

Speaker 1:
[58:33] Fill me, fill me, fill me.

Speaker 2:
[58:34] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:35] Oh no. It just feels, the world feels so chaotic in a way sometimes. And I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[58:41] To be fair though, not to this guy or his world. I didn't have social as a kid. Like I wasn't, there wasn't, it wasn't a thing. And then when I hit my twenties or very probably late teens, early twenties, Facebook came a thing, but it wasn't like it is now. I didn't know, and no joke, Nicole, I swear to God this is true. I know that America was a little different. You guys were a little more, the boys were a little more into their looks. But in England, we were all goony fuckers. Like no one was, no one had abs, not ones that they weren't. They were just naturally skinny. They said they might have had abs. They didn't have like Arnold Schwarzenegger bodies. No one had that.

Speaker 1:
[59:18] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[59:18] Whereas now, my whole world has become, no one's a normal looking person.

Speaker 1:
[59:24] No, everyone looks crazy. Everyone truly looks wild in a way that I don't understand. And then, like, I feel like sometimes I'll see some teens with some self-expression, but for the most part, I see teens, because I have to drive by a school to get here. I see teens in, like, baggy jeans, Uggs and a white baby tee. And they'll just be like a gang of all of them looking the same. And I'm like, I feel like when I was in school, yes, there was trends, but, like, people would do their own spin on the trends.

Speaker 2:
[59:56] Also, maybe this is different. I know, well, all I have to go on is American television from when I was a kid. So maybe your world wasn't actually like this. But no one was hot in my high school. There were pretty girls. There were handsome dudes. But no, if you were to see any of them today, no one would say, whoa, hot. You'd be like, that's a normal looking person.

Speaker 1:
[60:20] A normal good looking person.

Speaker 2:
[60:21] Who's just pretty, cute. Like no one would, you would never think you're going to end up on a Calvin Klein billboard. Whereas I went to this meeting at my agency and it's one of these, they have this restaurant that's attached where the public can go to it. There are these teens from the local school come here to be seen, it's become a hot spot. These girls were hot, like shockingly hot. They're probably 16, 17. And I've stood there thinking, you shouldn't be hot at your age.

Speaker 1:
[60:49] I agree. I agree. Cause like, I would say the prettiest girl in my high school was like a little too tan and her hair was fried.

Speaker 2:
[60:58] Yeah. Oh my God. Always fried.

Speaker 1:
[61:00] Just like flyaways everywhere. Just straight. And he'd be like, okay, whatever.

Speaker 6:
[61:06] She's cute. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:07] But yeah, like the teens, they're like beautiful in a way that I'm like, but then I'm like, is that a problem?

Speaker 2:
[61:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:15] Like, did you do things, like, are you, do you have Botox at 17?

Speaker 2:
[61:20] There's no way they'd actually look just, the world didn't just become gorgeous.

Speaker 4:
[61:23] There's no way.

Speaker 1:
[61:25] You're right.

Speaker 2:
[61:25] There's no way. And also they're all, they've got these perfect Instagram bodies. And I just think, you shouldn't have that, you need to not look gorgeous to develop a real personality. I'm worried. I'm not being hyperbolic. I've got kids and I'm just thinking, please don't feel like you need to look perfect. You don't. You don't.

Speaker 1:
[61:47] Well, I think the scariest part about somebody feeling like they need to look perfect from like 17 on is like looks fade. So if you put all of your eggs in the looks basket, you're going to be so disappointed when you hit midlife.

Speaker 2:
[62:02] Yeah. And you can't looks max at 50. Like there's nothing you can do. There's only one person that's done it successfully in that share. And like out of the billions, get the fuck out of here. You're not going to be that. And she looks looks maxed in a way that none of us can looks max.

Speaker 1:
[62:19] You're absolutely right. Shares looks maxing so hard.

Speaker 2:
[62:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:24] Tan, do you have any advice for single people?

Speaker 2:
[62:27] I do. I'm going to hit that geography point one more time. You are not, you are not required to be where you are. If you're already struggling, you say, I hear this so often from people in LA and New York. It's really hard to date in LA or New York. Like you don't have to be there. If dating is important to you and love life is important, you could be somewhere else. And the world has become such where you can, most of us can't work remotely, go somewhere else. Don't go for somebody just because you think they're hot. Yeah. That's gonna go. And that might be so cliche, but let me tell you, when I first considered dating my husband, I thought he's handsome. He's not typically my type. I went on a date and his personality was so beautiful to me that I just thought I can see you being, even if you don't want kids, but I can see you being the father of my children and feeling confident that you will do a good job. Also, it doesn't matter what they do for work. As long as they have a good work, I think, and they want to do well in what they do. I dated somebody who wasn't rich. I didn't need a rich man. Go for somebody who is motivated, but doesn't have to buy you Chanel. If you want Chanel, buy your own fucking Chanel. Also, apparently, I've got a lot of advice. Wow. When you first asked, I don't think I got anything. I don't know. Don't expect them to pay. If this is a straight date, don't expect them to pay on the first date. But if you are the man, at least offer to pay on the first date. I know that that might sound so archaic. It's not suggesting that the woman is less than, it's not suggesting that it's the 50s, but it's just a nice thing to do. I just think it's a kind thing to do. When I take girls out, I'm not a fucking misogynist. Most of my friends are female, but I want to pay for them. I just think it's my, I think my mom raised me to respect a woman and take her out. Even if it's just your friend, you're not trying to fuck her. Take her out and pay for her. And if she really throws down, it's like, no, I want to pay, let her fine, but at least offer.

Speaker 1:
[64:41] See, I kind of agree with that. When I went out with the nice man in my life on our very first date, I was like, oh, do you want to split the wine that we just got? And he was like, no, I got it. And I was like, okay. And then he paid for it and I was like, do you want to get another glass of wine? He was like, yes, I do. And I said, well, can I pay for this one?

Speaker 2:
[64:58] I like that.

Speaker 1:
[64:58] And then I paid for that one. And then he's like, do you want to do one more? And I was like, yes, I do. And he's like, well, I'll get that one.

Speaker 2:
[65:03] I like that.

Speaker 1:
[65:04] So we just had a little back and forth.

Speaker 2:
[65:06] I think it encourages a mutual respect.

Speaker 1:
[65:08] A mutual respect, but then he was also like, it was just fun because it was like, oh, she wants to keep the night going and now I'm going to tell her that I want to keep the night going. And I was like, yeah, that was like a nice way to do it.

Speaker 2:
[65:22] Yeah, I like that a lot.

Speaker 1:
[65:22] But I agree. If you're going to take someone out, take them out.

Speaker 2:
[65:25] Yeah. Can I go on? Yes, please.

Speaker 1:
[65:28] I love it. I also love your shirt.

Speaker 2:
[65:31] Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Thank you. Care about how you present yourself on that date. You never know what that date might become. You never know. I went into my date with my husband thinking it was going to be a hookup. He ended up being the father of my children. Like, make an effort. It's a sign of respect. And I've said it a thousand times on the show. It became a meme. But I do mean it. Like, make an effort for that person. They've gone out of their way to spend an evening with you. It's so much easier nowadays to just put on a TV show and stay at home and ordering your fucking food. Like, they've come out to be with you. Show them some respect. I'm not saying wear a fucking ball gown.

Speaker 1:
[66:08] Put some effort.

Speaker 2:
[66:10] Yeah, even if it's just a t-shirt and a pair of jeans, if it's something that you like and you think, I like this outfit, I like the way I feel in this. Do that. Just put in an effort that makes you feel good about yourself. I'm going to continue on, unfortunately. Who gives a fuck what car he's driving? I don't give a shit what car he's driving. Don't base your decision on, does he live in an ice building? Has he got a cool friend? Does he drive this Lambo? It doesn't matter. You could potentially grow into that. Just care about the fact that he's kind to you. He makes you feel good about yourself. Also, if he's nagging you, bitch, get the fuck out of that.

Speaker 1:
[66:47] I agree.

Speaker 2:
[66:48] I don't care that you think that that works. Get the, if he's nagging you now, he's going to nag you forever.

Speaker 1:
[66:53] Get the fuck out of that. And it's going to get worse.

Speaker 2:
[66:56] Absolutely. Also, watch his eyes on that first date. If he's looking at other women, he's not for you.

Speaker 1:
[67:01] Mm, that's good.

Speaker 2:
[67:03] He's not for you. And don't play the game. The thing that I've always been firm on is ever since I started dating, if you want to wait those three days to text me after that first date, that's a game I don't want to be a part of. I don't want to play it. I don't think it's fun. If you like me after the first date, tell me you like me.

Speaker 1:
[67:21] I agree.

Speaker 2:
[67:22] And I will do the same for you. I really enjoyed that date and I would like to see you again.

Speaker 1:
[67:26] I fully agree on that one. The last couple of people I've dated, they have not waited or I have not waited. Because I'm like, let's do this. Do you like me? Do you want to see me again? Let's get it on the books.

Speaker 2:
[67:40] Yeah. And the worst they could say is, no, I didn't enjoy you. But who gives a shit? You're not going to see that person anyway.

Speaker 1:
[67:47] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[67:47] So who cares?

Speaker 3:
[67:48] Because it's one date.

Speaker 1:
[67:49] You don't have any... There's no stakes in it yet. You don't know this person.

Speaker 2:
[67:53] Yeah. I really do think that we need to be better at communicating. And I think we need to start pretending that the games work. And the absolute bullshit. And I'm saying this because I've had a lot of girlfriends who I love, who will say, I don't know, but this is different. Like, God, we love... He doesn't love her. Uh-huh. And he won't love you soon, too.

Speaker 3:
[68:13] I mean, I think you're right.

Speaker 1:
[68:16] I think... I really do think once a cheater, always a cheater.

Speaker 2:
[68:20] Or at least if he cheated to get with you, he'll cheat to get the next thing he wants. And he might not, but the odds are stacked against you.

Speaker 1:
[68:28] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[68:28] Don't take that risk.

Speaker 1:
[68:29] I agree. Find somebody who wants just you.

Speaker 2:
[68:32] Just you.

Speaker 1:
[68:33] Tan, I think that was all really great advice.

Speaker 2:
[68:36] Thanks.

Speaker 1:
[68:36] Here's another question. Yeah. Would you date me?

Speaker 2:
[68:39] Absolutely. I'd date you. You're wonderful. Here's the thing. If a person can make me laugh, they're fucking gold. I want them as my friend or my partner. If you can't make me laugh, get out of my life.

Speaker 1:
[68:49] I also really don't like being around people who don't make me laugh. I don't like people who frown and then find like the misery and everything.

Speaker 2:
[68:58] Yeah. I'm not into a lot of negativity. I understand that times are hard sometimes and that's okay. I'll help you through it, but that can't be your resting stage.

Speaker 1:
[69:05] No, no, no. If you start low, have a peak, but then you get low again, I'm like, well...

Speaker 2:
[69:11] Is this us? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[69:13] Dan, do you have anything you want to promote?

Speaker 2:
[69:15] Yes, I do. Can I just go off? Okay, I have a new project that I'm so excited about. And I just want to say this. I wanted the audience to... It's been really lovely, but also difficult being on Queer Eye, where you can't really be sassy. No. And I really just want to play and be a dickhead and say cunt and fuck and all those things that are so naturally me. And so I created a show called Honorable Gays. Three people, me, Eric Sedano, Rob Anderson, who are internet icons, and we three Honorable Gays, take stories from Reddit, Am I the Asshole Stories? And we decide who really is the asshole in every situation. It's also animated and I think it is so darn funny. And it's on YouTube now.

Speaker 1:
[70:04] I love that. Can you give us like a little sneak peek?

Speaker 2:
[70:08] Some of the stories?

Speaker 1:
[70:09] Yeah, what's one of the stories?

Speaker 2:
[70:10] Okay. Oh God, we've got such good stories. There are eight episodes. We got three stories per episode. One of my, this will give you a taster. I love a wedding story. Any wedding drama, I always want to hear it because there's always wedding drama and it's usually between the brides and bridesmaids or between the bridesmaids exclusively. One of my favorite ones that we do is there's a bride who's asking if she's the asshole because she asked one of her bridesmaids to not be in some of the pictures, all pictures, because she was too robust and tall and it was throwing off the vibe.

Speaker 1:
[70:51] Yeah, you're the asshole. That's wild.

Speaker 2:
[70:53] I won't tell you, might not be a surprise, who the asshole was in that situation.

Speaker 1:
[70:59] That is so wild. Hey, do you mind spending money to wear a dress, come to the location, take time out of your schedule, come to my bridal shower, and then I need you to step to the side because B-Fy faux-fun, you too big.

Speaker 3:
[71:15] That's wild. Wild.

Speaker 2:
[71:18] I know. She pretended it wasn't because of that, but everything she said, because she mentions her build a lot. But yeah, she's pretending it's just because it wasn't really the right vibe. I'm like, uh-huh.

Speaker 1:
[71:30] I have not watched yet, but I cannot wait to watch.

Speaker 2:
[71:35] It's so fun. And these two are comics, so it's funny and it's ridiculous. And the animation is just hilarious. I'm so proud of this show.

Speaker 1:
[71:42] I love it. And it's Honorable Gays.

Speaker 2:
[71:44] Honorable Gays on YouTube.

Speaker 1:
[71:45] And it's on YouTube. And okay, that's it. Thank you so much, Tan, for being here.

Speaker 2:
[71:50] Thanks for having me. I've enjoyed this so much. I need to say this for you. We had a lovely time on Nailed It, but we didn't get to interact really. And I listened to your podcast thinking, I don't know how this is going to go because I don't have dating advice, but I've enjoyed this so much.

Speaker 1:
[72:06] You had so much dating advice.

Speaker 2:
[72:08] You are very, very good at this.

Speaker 1:
[72:10] Oh, thank you so much.

Speaker 2:
[72:12] A lot of podcasters aren't.

Speaker 1:
[72:15] Well, I think I love love. I like genuinely love it so much.

Speaker 2:
[72:23] And I need to stop you. That's not it. You listen and you respond. Oh, you are you you may love love. And I love that you love love fucking love love. Oh, my God. I love a love story. But you weren't just in your notes. Like you actually listened to what I was saying. Do you know how rare that is for a podcaster?

Speaker 1:
[72:44] That is that is funny. I guess I haven't guessed it on very many podcasts where it wasn't another comedian. You know what? I am thinking of one podcast in particular that I guessed it on where I was like, oh, okay, you're truly just on to the next question.

Speaker 2:
[73:04] Oh, okay. You've stacked your day and you're one of six. And you didn't do that.

Speaker 1:
[73:09] And you're just trying to get out of here.

Speaker 2:
[73:11] I need you to know that I know how podcasts go. You usually bank some, but your guests shouldn't feel that. No, it's fine if they don't because we all know you've got to bank. But they shouldn't feel it. The reason why you're good at this is because you don't make a person feel it. Sorry, that's condescending, I just need to hear it.

Speaker 1:
[73:30] It's not condescending. It's really nice. Sometimes, I don't know, sometimes you undercut yourself and you're just like, well, I love love and I like doing this podcast. So that's why...

Speaker 2:
[73:41] It's not that, so much more than that.

Speaker 1:
[73:43] But I do like listening to people. Sometimes you learn something new.

Speaker 2:
[73:46] Yeah, it's been nice. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:
[73:49] Tan, I gotta say this. I find you to be very genuine and very nice.

Speaker 2:
[73:55] Oh, thanks.

Speaker 1:
[73:56] And you have like a good spirit and aura. Oh, thanks so much. It's very calming. Like you came in and you were like, I'm sorry for being late, but even that was calming. I was like, hmm, you're so sorry.

Speaker 2:
[74:07] I was so, do you know what? I literally, no joke, I'm not a crier. I cried on the way with my husband saying, I feel so fucking guilty because I know Nicole and it's such a disrespect to turn up 20 minutes late. But it was just my last one runs so late. And then the traffic was, we're in LA, it's insane. I was like, and I panic, I get such weird anxiety when I'm going to let someone down. I hate it.

Speaker 1:
[74:29] You didn't let me down. This was delightful. Your shirt reminds me of this vintage brand. I think they still sell things, but it's called Quacker Factory. And everything they have-

Speaker 2:
[74:38] That sounds so racist.

Speaker 1:
[74:39] Mwahahaha, it does.

Speaker 2:
[74:42] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[74:43] It's like, what did you call me?

Speaker 1:
[74:44] But everything they have is like embroidered. Like embroidered flowers and embroidered little animals. But I just-

Speaker 2:
[74:51] I love anything embroidered. It's one of the main crafts from South Asia. And so whenever I can get an embroidered thing, I want that embroidered thing. This is also Indian.

Speaker 3:
[75:01] It's really cute. I really like it.

Speaker 2:
[75:02] Thanks, mate.

Speaker 7:
[75:03] I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:
[75:04] Such a good color.

Speaker 7:
[75:04] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[75:05] If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me?, you can like it, you can follow it, you can rate it five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And if you write me something nasty hitting on me to WhyWontYouDateMePodcast at gmail.com, I'll read it. This person writes, not sure how to start this. So first of all, Nicole, you are a phenomenal comedian. Thank you. And person. Thank you again. I would love to see you on Taskmaster UK as you would be wild and excellent. Anywho, onto the pure filth. First, I would wine and dine you at Guy Fieri's airport restaurant wearing matching flame shirts. And then we'd head back to my place where I would slowly strip you off, kissing your neck and working my way down your glorious body. When you're good and wet, I would then start kissing down on you and I would take my goddamn time playing until you are so close. Then I'd pull out my rabbit to push you over the edge and just watch the waves of pleasure crash over you. What a treat.

Speaker 3:
[76:05] What a dream.

Speaker 1:
[76:06] That would be for both of us. Thank you. Goodbye.

Speaker 3:
[76:10] That was a Headgum podcast.

Speaker 8:
[76:13] Hi, I am Mandy Moore.

Speaker 7:
[76:15] Sterling K.

Speaker 5:
[76:15] Brown. I'm Chris Sullivan and we host the podcast, That Was Us, now on Headgum.

Speaker 8:
[76:20] Each episode, we're going to go into a deep dive.

Speaker 7:
[76:23] Yeah.

Speaker 8:
[76:23] From our show, This Is Us.

Speaker 5:
[76:24] That's right.

Speaker 8:
[76:25] We're going to go episode by episode. We're also going to pepper in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors.

Speaker 5:
[76:34] Are we going to cry? Yes.

Speaker 7:
[76:35] A little bit.

Speaker 5:
[76:36] Are we going to laugh?

Speaker 7:
[76:37] A lot.

Speaker 5:
[76:37] A whole lot.

Speaker 7:
[76:38] That's what I'm hoping, man. Listen to That Was Us on your favorite podcast app or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify. New episodes every Tuesday.