transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] No one goes to Hanks for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet, so Hanks decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks Copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs and help him see if he can afford it. Copilot shows Hanks where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now Hanks has a line out the door. Hanks makes the pizza. Copilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at m365copilot.com.

Speaker 2:
[00:48] Welcome in, Check the Mic. We're back. Round one recap time, Steve Palazzolo, Sam Monson. Thanks to everybody that was just with us, watching live, every pick in round one. Now it's time to go through it again, and for those listening on audio, for the first time, if you're listening to us, maybe Friday or sometime this weekend.

Speaker 3:
[01:05] Welcome, audio listeners.

Speaker 2:
[01:06] Welcome to the audio listeners coming out, first thing, Friday morning. A wild first round, they're always wild. They're always unpredictable. The worst mock draft ever tonight. No mock draft looked like this one. High level thoughts on this thing? I thought it was exciting.

Speaker 3:
[01:20] Yeah, fun draft. Went pretty quickly. We're getting slowly more disheveled as the weekend goes. We've lost the ties. We suited it up for the live show. And now with the recap first round thing, we've lost the ties. We're getting a little bit more disheveled. Maybe tomorrow we'll even lose the sports coat. We'll just be in shirts or whatever. And by the end of the weekend, we'll just be looking like tramps again.

Speaker 2:
[01:45] We got all dressed up again for night one. So anyway, we're going to go pick by pick. We'll go team by team. So the teams that had two, we'll just talk about both of their picks together. That all sound good?

Speaker 3:
[01:56] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[01:57] It all started at pick number one, Fernando Mendoza, the pick to the Las Vegas Raiders. No surprises at the top, Mendoza, a raider.

Speaker 3:
[02:05] That would have been a hell of a surprise. If the Raiders had heel turned and gone somewhere else other than Mendoza, that would have been pretty shocking. But no, they draft Mendoza, the pick that they said they were going to make from weeks out. They made it. It's the right pick. Mendoza, I think, is a good prospect. Maybe he's not a spectacular, elite, you know, number one in every single year prospect, but it's the right pick for the Raiders.

Speaker 2:
[02:28] It was. He can hashtag make all the throws.

Speaker 3:
[02:32] Make all the throws.

Speaker 2:
[02:33] I think he's got an aggressiveness. I can't wait to see the types of receivers that they're going to try to pick up and pair with him. I think they still need some help with the receiver position, so I'm interested in that part of it for the Raiders. He's changed his LinkedIn. He's ready to go. He's the Raiders QB. He's their guy.

Speaker 3:
[02:51] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[02:51] I think a good fit for Clint Pukubiak and what he wants to do. And yeah, looking good.

Speaker 3:
[02:58] Yeah, absolutely. It's the right pick for them. Again, I'm getting kind of tired of the LinkedIn stuff. But he's the right kind of maniac to be a successful quarterback.

Speaker 2:
[03:08] I can't believe him and Kirk Cousins are going to be teammates now. I think it's outstanding.

Speaker 3:
[03:12] Honestly, that probably is the right type of quarterback for him to be a mentor for him. And we talked about that quarterback documentary. I don't know that there's been many players, if ever, that have squeezed more out of what talent they had than Kirk Cousins has for his entire career. Everyone jokes about his agent going on the Get in the Bag Hall of Fame, Mount Rushmore, whatever. But genuinely, look at the stuff Kirk Cousins has done to try and squeeze every last inch out of what he has in the NFL. He's been a good player for the majority of his career, from being what, a fourth round draft pick. Like he wasn't supposed to become the player that he became, but he did in part because he's also a maniac, right? He's kind of a lunatic. He doesn't waste time like, you know, researching how to dap up guys. He gives them a straight businessman's handshake and he moves on to the next play in his head, right? Like that's what Mendoza needs.

Speaker 2:
[04:04] Mendoza's got good size. He's got good zip, good carry on the ball. He elevated Cal when he was there, right from when he started, and then clearly elevated Indiana as well. I think Indiana had a ton of talent, and of course leads them to an undefeated season. The national title made huge throws in crunch time, all the way along the way. Just had to get all the same talking points out on Mendoza, probably for the last time now. Maybe until we get to the Raiders recap when it comes to next week and when we go through team by team. But right move for the Raiders. He wasn't always the slam dunk number one overall, but became that guy. He pulled away from Ty Simpson. He pulled away from Dante Moore. Moore went back to school because Mendoza, down the stretch, Penn State game winner, Ohio State third in longs, national title game against Miami, made huge plays in crunch time.

Speaker 3:
[04:54] He did. He elevated his stock. If you were looking for reasons to be concerned about it, you would say in hindsight, it's a very small sample size of play and games that sort of elevated him to this clear number one status quarterback, right? Like we're talking about a pretty small number of plays that have to go away or go the other way for him to not be that guy. And then that would be why if you're not a Raiders fan, you'd be like, well, did they draft a fraud? That would be the kind of stuff you'd point at. And you'd be like, well, if that stuff goes back, variance swings in the other direction, it wouldn't take much for him to go in the tank.

Speaker 2:
[05:32] All right, we're going to go team by team here. Number two pick was David Bailey from the Jets. So the Jets end up with three picks in the first round. We knew that they had two and 16 going in. So at two, they take David Bailey. At 16, they take Oregon Titan, Kenyon Sadiq, and then they trade back into the first round, shades of 2022, and they traded back into the first to get Jermaine Johnson. This time it's back at pick 30 to take Omar Cooper Jr, the wide receiver out of Indiana.

Speaker 3:
[05:59] Which had originally been Denver's pick and then became Miami's pick and became San Francisco's pick before becoming the Jets pick.

Speaker 2:
[06:05] That pick was moving all over the place at pick 30. So that was Denver's original pick. So going through this, we didn't really know what the Jets were going to do. Supposedly, they've been on this for a while. David Bailey, despite the canceled 30 visit, all those talkie points that we had, they're still-

Speaker 3:
[06:21] What a red herring.

Speaker 2:
[06:22] They still made the pick.

Speaker 3:
[06:23] What a bait and switch. Yeah, so I think early, we started off saying we would take Ruben Bain at number two. I think it then became, it then felt like David Bailey had become the guy as the sort of cleanest of the prospects in terms of the least scary red flag. Then it felt like Arvell Reese was becoming the guy clearly, and then it ends up eventually becoming David Bailey, and maybe it had always been him, or at least from the point where it looked like him as well. I do come back to that. I think if you're in this draft and you're like, look, there's no clean blue chip superstar player, at least one that doesn't play running back or safety. So who's the guy that scares you the least? I feel like David Bailey is the one that's least scary. He's the most obviously elite pass rusher that's conventionally elite. He's twitchy, he's got the burst, the speed, he's got the stuff you usually see from edge rushers. And if he's got a weakness, he's average in the run game. We can live with that.

Speaker 2:
[07:21] He is so fast to the top of the pocket. So I think when you when you add him in with say like Devandre Sweat in the middle, and I think you don't draft a guy because of what the other players are around him. You want him to be able to win on his own. But I just think Bailey is a great complement to other good rushers. And you think you saw that on the Texas Tech defensive line last year, when someone won from the interior or dealing with Romelo Haidt on the other side, you have to worry about Bailey's speed and twitchiness. Again, he's not a run through your face type of guy as far as you'll win with power here and there. He's not a hard edge setter. But I think he's the best pure pass rusher in the draft. I think in another draft, maybe he goes 8 to 12. In another loaded draft, maybe he goes a little bit lower. But I think in this draft, that's the right picket too.

Speaker 3:
[08:08] I do think he's a step down from some of the elite top pass rushers taken in other drafts. The Will Anderson Juniors, I know Trayvon Walker went number one overall, but we thought Aidan Hutchinson was clearly the best pass rusher in that draft. Those guys, Nick Bosa, blah, blah, blah, he's not at that level, but I think he is the least scary, cleanest player to take at the top of this draft if you're the Jets and you're just trying to hit the best player.

Speaker 2:
[08:33] So we're going pick by pick, except when the team has multiple picks. Let's talk about all of them in one group here. So again, it picks 16, Kenyon Sadiq. At the time, we said, how about this? They go him instead of wide receiver three. So there were only two receivers off the board at that time. They go with the first tight end off the board in Sadiq and then they circled back and got Omar Cooper Jr. at wide receiver. As I said, on the live broadcast, the trusty draft score model that I have, I'll reveal some of the numbers, a 97 for Bailey, a 92 for Sadiq and 95 for Omar Cooper. I love all these picks, they're all in the range to become high end players.

Speaker 3:
[09:09] Yeah, Sadiq was the curve ball of the trio. People were saying that Omar Cooper Jr. to the Jets at 16 was a lock and they end up going with Kenyon Sadiq as well. I really like Kenyon Sadiq, I think he's a good player. He's an unusual player and I don't think he's the easiest plug and play guy. I think you need to have a plan for him because he's not the standard move tight end that people think about when they're like, there's a really good athletic receiving tight end. He's fast, he's rocked up, he's powerful. He can block, like you can have him as the wide tight end in your formation and just dominate at the line of scrimmage. He can destroy linebacker safeties when he's on the move. He's a really good blocker and he'll run away from basically everybody you've got trying to cover him. I don't think he's a particularly good zone type of receiver where he understands where the soft spots are. He's able to maximize that window, settle down, give a quarterback a good place to throw the ball. I don't think he's necessarily a great route runner either. So it's not the easiest guy in the world to integrate into your offense, but the dude's a playmaker. I mean, we've seen that throughout his college career.

Speaker 2:
[10:17] It's kind of like what I described with Bailey. It's almost like when he's around other good playmakers, I think it'll help accentuate his skill set, the fact that his speed running up the seam, his speed running on deep crossers, and his speed and quickness after the catch. I was mostly half-joking but a little serious about taking running back reps, put him at the backfield with Breece Hall now, if you're the Jets, and maybe give him a couple handoffs here and there, because I just think he's got the athleticism to challenge the defense. Sometimes tight ends take a couple years, and what you described, maybe not having that natural feel. It's a feel thing that I think some tight ends take some years. David Njoku, TJ Hawkinson takes them a couple years sometimes. That's the risk with your first round tight ends, but Sadiq has all the tools. He's young at the position. He's a little undersized for a true Y tight end. He'll pair with Mason Taylor. I think they're both... They both have some similarities in their game, where you'd rather have them off the ball as more of an H-back type, but Sadiq can move people. I mean, he can get low and move people at the point of attack, despite being 245 pounds. He moves people like a 260-pounder.

Speaker 3:
[11:20] Absolutely, yeah. That's the thing. I think he's always been...

Speaker 2:
[11:22] Be the three-down tight end.

Speaker 3:
[11:24] He's always been kind of miscast, I think, when people just sort of... He doesn't fit the stereotype of what you expect a 240-something pound receiving tight end to be. He is actually a good blocker, and I think he can play that position. The point is, unless you're gronk, right, it doesn't really make sense to have your receiving tight end attached in the formation and playing that sort of true run-blocking tight end all the time. It makes sense to get that guy away from that as fast as you can, because generally those guys are better the more space they're in. But I think people that just dismiss him as a guy that doesn't block, he's a receiving move-tight end only, that's not who he is.

Speaker 2:
[12:01] And then Omar Cooper Jr, both of us love him. I think, like you said, at the end of the show, if they had taken him at 16, we would have said fine. Everybody mocked him at 16. The Jets reportedly really loved him. They didn't love him enough to take him at 16, but loved him enough to trade back in to the first round to get him at 30.

Speaker 3:
[12:20] Or maybe they just loved Sadiq that much as well.

Speaker 2:
[12:23] Yeah, and they ended up getting both of those guys.

Speaker 3:
[12:24] Yeah, I love Omar Cooper Jr. Best run after the catch receiver in the draft. Incredibly hard to tackle. People had comped him. I saw some comps to Debo Samuel, and again, it's one of those ones that's not really fair because the dude's a unicorn, but you can see it. People bounce off him the way people bounce off Debo Samuel. I don't think you're gonna have Omar Cooper Jr. in the backfield taking running back handoffs or anything, but that type of thing, right?

Speaker 2:
[12:50] Sadiq's gonna be doing that.

Speaker 3:
[12:51] Yeah, well, that's true. And people kind of bounce off him too. Maybe that was a concerted effort. They've added two guys that add some serious run after the catch toughness to that team.

Speaker 2:
[13:02] Yeah, I love Omar Cooper Jr. I love his competitiveness at the catch point. He is bendy and difficult to tackle after the catch. Yak got better in New York for both players, Sadiq and Cooper. There are a couple of playmakers there. And look, they're still playing the QB game. It's Geno Smith right now is a bridge quarterback. Whoever they bring in next year as their presumably drafted quarterback has a couple of weapons that they've added this year. So I like what the Jets have done. I know when a team drafts three times in the first round, everybody seems to love it. They got three players that we all know. But I think the Jets worked the board pretty well here and picked some good players along the way.

Speaker 3:
[13:38] I like the players that they came away with in addition to, I mean, I don't think anything about the process was bad there, so good work.

Speaker 2:
[13:45] So we didn't know going in. We didn't know who they were going to pick it to. They go Bailey. And then the last minute, last week, rumors about the Arizona Cardinals loving Jeremiyah Love seemed to be true. And they go, Jeremiyah Love at pick three. It's surprising, Sam.

Speaker 3:
[14:00] It really was. Yeah, I didn't really, I had heard the rumors that somebody in Arizona really liked Love and that was a serious option. I didn't really think it was, it wasn't that I couldn't believe somebody in the building was making that argument. I didn't expect it to win out. That's why I thought, remember, the real rumors heading into the draft was Kansas City was going to trade up to three and Arizona was trying to trade out and it felt like that was going to be the compromise, right? Just to stop us drafting Jeremiyah Love, we're going to trade out and do something different. Instead, they end up actually drafting him. The rumor was that they were debating Arvell Reese or whoever and then somebody powerful enough within that organization really liked Jeremiyah Love and was sufficiently high up in the organization that everybody else wasn't able to simply dismiss it and say, thanks for your input, but we're talking about Mauigoa or Arvell Reese here, move on. And then actually apparently powerful enough that they make Jeremiyah Love the decision.

Speaker 2:
[15:00] All the team press conferences are going on right now and I can only imagine they're saying, hey, this was just a case if he was the top player on our board, it's best player available, that's what we're going to do. And we usually adhere to that philosophy, but there's like a BPA is not this, it's not this nebulous concept. There are some parameters and guard rails around it. You have to adjust for positional value and those types of things. So the question now becomes, I'll give you the positive and the negative for Arizona. The negative side is you have James Connor, you just paid Tyler Algier as a free agent, and you have Trey Benson who fantasy people, and we liked him a couple of years ago, but there's two odd men out here.

Speaker 3:
[15:41] Yeah, the chat there, Death himself, where the super chat says, am I crazy to suggest that a running back room that already had Benson, Algier and James Connor didn't need an upgrade? Maui Noa would have helped their run game more.

Speaker 2:
[15:52] He would have. Now, they clearly didn't have Maui Noa ranked as high, they've got the injury questions, who knows what ended up going into that decision? Then the other negative, it's like we're obligated to cite, he's the fourth highest paid running back, he's the seventh highest paid running back in the NFL now at this pick. That's Jeremiyah Love.

Speaker 3:
[16:09] Which I'm fine with, by the way. I don't have as big a problem with that as other people do. Okay, the point being, even if he ends up being exactly the player that you think he is, you're already paying for it, so there's no surplus value, right? Which is fine, that's a reasonable argument to make, but the point is, the offset to that is, but the certainty that he is this guy is so much better than it would be that Arvell Reese say, or Maui Noa say, becomes the player that you think they are as well. That's the difference, like you're offsetting, like yes, if you instead drafted Arvell Reese and said, well he's, whatever it is, Edge 38 in terms of paying for it, yeah, but the difference is how much, what is the chance that he's gonna be that guy given he's a projection and a tweener and all these kinds of things, so I'm actually fine with the idea of he's the seventh best paid running back in the NFL from day one, because I think you're so certain that he's really good, and I also think that in this draft amongst all others, it is much easier to gravitate towards the guy that you're sure about, because Arvell Reese is a project, Mauigoa might be a guard, all the other guys that were options are not easy sells necessarily. Like David Bailey would be the one guy, again, the reason the Jets drafted David Bailey at two would be the reason that the Cardinals would want him over maybe Jeremiyah Love, but once Bailey's gone, everybody else has got something to be scared of.

Speaker 2:
[17:31] Right, so we said all along the way, like in this draft, Caleb Downs, Jeremiyah Love, we come back to just get the best football player. It's just really interesting that Arizona is loaded at running back and then they made this move. So now, is there a subsequent move to be made for James Connor, for Trey Benson being available? We'll see what happens with Arizona. On the positive side here, what is Jeremiyah Love as a player? Ran a 4-3-6, big time, long speed, big time playmaker, natural pass catcher, same 40-time as Jeremiyah Gibbs. And when Gibbs came out, we had to give both sides of the story, right? When you draft a running back this high, here are the potential negatives. The positives, though, when you dropped Jeremiyah Gibbs onto that Detroit Lions offense. Now, they had the O-line intact. Yes, completely intact. They were very good. But they also had Aman Ra, and they ended up drafting Sam Laporta. They had Jameson Williams. And I remember even on the broadcast that night when they drafted Gibbs saying, hey, good luck covering all these types of playmakers. If you're facing the Arizona Cardinals right now, who still have a quarterback question. If you're facing them, Marvin Harrison Jr, Michael Wilson, who's just a stud when Marvin Harrison's not playing.

Speaker 3:
[18:42] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:43] Trey McBride, who's become top three tight end.

Speaker 3:
[18:46] Probably be the best in the NFL.

Speaker 2:
[18:47] Maybe the best in the NFL. And then you add Jeremiyah Love to the equation. So your checklist of get the offensive line first, and then this guy elevate the run game and not have to be relied upon. Maybe it's not there yet from an O-line perspective, but from a playmaker perspective, I could see the Cardinals in this room saying, man, good luck covering this. Got to figure out QB, got to figure out maybe right guard and right tackle still. But maybe a year or two from now, when they have that sorted, it's a really tough offense to cover.

Speaker 3:
[19:16] Yeah. And honestly, so that's the thing. Like I keep talking about running backs as this, do you draft a running back here? Yes or no? It's like a flow chart, right? And step one is always, do you have the offensive line to make it work? And if you don't, you don't go anywhere in the flow chart. The answer is just no. If you move on from the flow chart, if you move on from the answer yes, and then you get into surplus value, what did you leave on the table, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I honestly think he takes the, they go yes everywhere after the offensive line. I think if you can talk yourself into that first step, I think Jeremiyah Love and the Cardinals and this draft in particular, I think you can actually talk yourself into yes, for every other step in the flowchart. But my problem with it is when you read out the starting five offensive linemen and you say their starting five offensive line right now is something along the lines of Parris Johnson Jr., Isaac Seamaloe, the new addition, Hialti Froholt, Isaiah Adams, Matt Pryor, Elijah Wilkinson, some two of those three at right guard and right tackle. Is that good enough for Jeremiyah Love to be the player that he needs to be right away? I don't think you can be sure that it is, so I would say no. Now, the one other element of that is, and I think, look, with running back in particular, you draft more for year one than you do with any other position because their shelf life is so short and maybe they're only one contract players and all those kinds of things. But much like they might not have an answer at quarterback, so let's just get everything else and get quarterback next year. You might look at this and say, Jeremiyah Love doesn't come along very often. There is no alternative where you're like, who am I leaving on the table for Jeremiyah Love? Arvell Reese is a project. He might not even be any good on the defensive end side of things, blah, blah, blah. You might talk yourself into, let's just get the dude that's a stud. I'll find a guard and a tackle for your agency next year. And then once we find those guys, well, then everything's good. I get it. I wouldn't do it. I think it's, I couldn't, I would talk myself out of this and I would say, look, I just can't draft them here. But I understand Arizona coming to the conclusion that he's the guy to take, because again, let's give him his due. He is an elite running back prospect. The dude is built like Adrian Peterson. He's lightning fast. He's a home run threat every time he touches the ball. He's a good receiver. He's kind of got everything.

Speaker 2:
[21:41] I think that that's the conversation for these next few picks. I get it too because of the alternatives. So that puts us to the Titans at four and Carnell Tate from Ohio State. They also traded back in at first to go get Keldric Faulk at pick 31. But this first one, Carnell Tate, I already see the chat talking about, hey, it's a reach. It's this. It's that. Like, yeah, I think Carnell Tate's like a high end number two in this nebulous number two receiver type of world. In this draft, I am perfectly fine with taking Tate anywhere from four to seven. I thought in this range, perfectly fine. And you have a weapon for Cam Ward. And the alternative is, like, I think they would rather have Bailey. I think Bailey was the perfect fit for Robert Salah's defense. The perfect fit. But he's not there. And what's the next piece? If they had to debate between Jeremiyah Love or Carnell Tate, I would take Tate. And I think if you're Arizona, maybe that's a little redundant with Marvin Harrison and Michael Wilson. But for Tennessee, they need a pass catcher. I think this is the right move for them.

Speaker 3:
[22:41] I love this move. I'm surprised they did it because I think it's the kind of move that you or I would make, but generally the NFL does not, but I absolutely endorse it. The problem with, you could argue that basically almost everybody drafted in the top 10 in this draft is a reach, right? Because in a normal year, I think they would be, right? If you were comparing these guys to a Will Anderson Jr. or a Aiden Hutchinson or a Pene Sewell or a Jamar Chase or a Joe Alt or the players that normally go in the top 10, these guys would all look like wild reaches. But those guys aren't in this draft. The two guys in this draft that would fit the bucket of those types of elite prospects are Jeremiyah Love, who we've just debated whether he should have gone that high at all, and Caleb Downs, who went outside the top 10 because even he is, you know, undersized or whatever, like not the super freak athlete that people want to see at that spot. So I don't think you can look, you could argue that any of these guys would have been reaches. The only difference is he's a reach in a position that, you know, generally doesn't go in the top four. But when you look at what he is and where their needs are, I mean, last year Cam Ward was OK as a rookie quarterback, but was getting better by the end of the year despite having very little help around him, they went and added the help around him. I think that's good, absolutely. And I really like Tate better than a lot of other people do as well.

Speaker 2:
[24:04] Yeah, I mean, you and I both, we both defaulted to every time we talked about, hey, Washington at 7, or the Saints at 8, or the Browns at 6, we're like, hey, Tate would be the guy. We both had him over Jordyn Tyson. I think he's very good at everything. I think he's very good at getting open at intermediate and deep routes. He's very good in and out of his brakes. He's good with his footwork. I like the way our friend Greg Cosell talks about it. He talks about him attacking the blind spots of corners. You've talked about that as moving corners or whatever it may be. He's just really good at it. I was surprised by this, Sam. I was surprised before I went into the tape thinking, I'm just going to see a contested catch receiver and instead found a guy that's great off press was actually creating separation down the field and winning down the field and being one or two steps behind corners despite only running a four or five, 340. I thought Tate is outstanding at everything, eight to 10 yards plus. I think he's really good.

Speaker 3:
[25:03] I mean, I don't see, there was the brief period during the combine when everyone was like, this guy's slow because he runs a four or five or whatever. I don't think you can see that anywhere in his tape. Like nowhere do you see this guy's slow. Maybe you don't say, oh, look, the guy's a four, two blazer, but like you don't look at his tape and say, there's a lack of speed here. Like he gets, he's plenty fast. He consistently wins deep down the field. He's consistently wide the hell open deep down the field. And I don't think he's necessarily limited to being this high end number two, can't be a number one. I think he could be a number one receiver in an offense. I don't know, like I don't feel as good about it as you would with a Jamar Chase or whatever. But again, the comp I keep coming back to is he's like Devontae Smith, but with 25 extra pounds on him. And if you gave Devontae Smith 25 extra pounds, he'd probably be a number one wide receiver. So, why can't Carnell Tate be a number one wide receiver?

Speaker 2:
[26:01] So, yeah, I think he's got the production profile of your Devontae Smiths or T Higgins or whatever your high ends number 2s look like. And then the Titans have him. They've got Chimera Dike, Ellic Iamander. You've got Wondell Robinson playing in the slot. And Calvin Ridley's back for now. So just dropping Carnell Tate into that wide receiver room, I think, upgrades it quite a bit. And you get to see what you have in Cam Ward much quicker. And look, their debate, I think, is probably between Tate and Arvell Reese right there. And for Reese, I think the fit for Salah is not as clean in that offense, where it's just straight four-man fronts. You're either, in that defense, he's either a defensive end or a linebacker. There's no hybrid. There's no hybrid role. And so they're probably just projecting him to the edge. And that's risky. Look, the Arvell thing is risky for me, for a lot of people at that range. And I think Carnell Tate's the right move for the Titans.

Speaker 3:
[26:58] And even if you liked Arvell Reese as an edge rusher within that defense, I still think there's a debate to be had of, you know, are we better institutionally by giving the quarterback, Cam Ward, our most important player, giving him somebody to help him, right? Like, is that a better use of resources than drafting the edge rusher we really like just because our head coach is a defensive minded guy, right? Like I think you could easily talk yourself into, yeah, maybe even if you had Reese ranked a little bit higher, like Carnell Tate is the more important player to add to the team.

Speaker 2:
[27:30] That takes us, and then pick 31. So the Titans moved up from 34 back into the first round, pick 31. This was New England's original pick. New England traded up with Buffalo. Buffalo traded out, they traded down three times tonight, monster night for the Bills with three trade downs and a lot of picks accumulated. So Tennessee comes back up, they take Keldric Faulk, the edge rusher out of Auburn. We think he's super young, but he's long, played inside, played outside, multi-gap versatility, excellent run defender, just doesn't have the pass rush production of a first-rounder. But as you said, in the late first, I think you're getting still a good football player with that pass rush upside.

Speaker 3:
[28:07] Yes. This is a classic example of a guy where I think because you change the level he was getting drafted at, the expectations change and the value proposition, the risk reward changes massively as well. Coming out of the Combine in Mike Sando's article where he was interviewing some executives, they were talking about this guy as being a cast iron top 10 draft pick. I'm like, man, I don't like that. I understand he's athletically gifted and he's 6'6, 275 and he's fast, he runs a 4'6 something. The tools are there, but the lack of production is too scary at that spot. But when you're talking about the bottom of the first round with a bunch of players already gone, then I get it. Then roll the dice, because he's a good run defender. He's going to be a solid part of the rotation, even if he doesn't bring anything anymore as a pass rusher. And he's only 20 with very rudimentary pass rush moves. I think there's reason to think you can develop that pretty quickly. So I think the bottom of the first, this ends up being a steal.

Speaker 2:
[29:09] If you... I hate using high floor and low ceiling, but if you want to consider you're getting a good run defender at worst, that's a high floor play. And there's still potential there, not only because he's young, but because he's got the size, the length, and athleticism.

Speaker 3:
[29:24] That hits one of the keys.

Speaker 2:
[29:26] Did I hit the high floor player?

Speaker 3:
[29:29] A guy who stick to the models.

Speaker 2:
[29:30] High floor player is a guy that just hasn't done it yet.

Speaker 3:
[29:33] Well, it's like it was... Yeah, it was a high ceiling player, which means he has a terrible floor that we've chosen not to focus on.

Speaker 2:
[29:39] Ignore the floor. Ignore the floor. Fascinating move by the Titans. And the thing I said at the end of the draft, I think they had an ideal scenario. We were talking about the Browns being receiver, tackle, tackle, receiver. I think the Titans had a perfect world of edge receiver or vice versa. And they went receiver and then the edge at the end of the first round.

Speaker 3:
[30:01] I think a really nice draft for them. Yeah, stick to the models. NFL draft analysts speak, high ceiling means the floor is a disaster. We've chosen not to discuss the floor.

Speaker 2:
[30:11] Glad we got some of that. All right, pick five. Now, the New York Giants take Arvell Reese and then they come back and pick 10, Francis Mauigoa out of Miami. So Reese falls to five. We had talked to him about him being in the mix at two, three. The Giants do play more of this hybrid, old school, 34 type of defense, where Reese now, there is some flexibility there. And now there's a ton of flexibility because Abdul Card is already there. He's a linebacker to edge conversion. Kevon Thibodeau still on the roster as of now. Brian Burns is there just loading up on players. I did see, I do love the press conferences, the post-game press conferences. There is first off a great story that we just got tagged in that we'll talk about later.

Speaker 3:
[30:51] Yeah, we'll get that when we get there.

Speaker 2:
[30:53] But there's also, the other thing I saw come across the timeline was John Harbaugh.

Speaker 3:
[30:57] I assume the Cardinals have already talked about Jeremiyah Love as being an offensive weapon.

Speaker 2:
[31:03] I'm sure he's an offensive weapon and the best player.

Speaker 3:
[31:04] He's not a running back, he's an offensive weapon.

Speaker 2:
[31:06] The Giants had Arvell Reese as the top non-QB on their board. So they get their top player at Pick 5.

Speaker 3:
[31:13] I believe that. Again, it's not a normal draft, right? I think the spread will have been all over the place in terms of who the best players were, how you put that together, etc. I love Arvell Reese. The more I watched him, the more I talk myself into it. I just got excited by what he could be. I think he could be a top level off the ball linebacker. I think he could be a top level edge rusher. I genuinely want to see somebody deploy him as a true hybrid player, because it's honestly what he was at Ohio State, even more so than a Jalen Walker a year ago for Georgia and then the Falcons. Arvell Reese was playing actual hybrid. They were using him as an off the ball linebacker, and then they would walk him down to the line of scrimmage, and then he would run through a right tackle to make a play as an edge rusher. Again, you watch Ben Solak's video with him, they didn't know what he was doing as a pass rusher. They didn't coach him up as a pass rusher. They just said, go nuts, do what you do. And he was making it up on the fly, to the point where he didn't even know the moves he was doing. He didn't know the names for them. So if you teach him, there's absolutely reason to think he could become a top tier pass rusher. But again, I think there is a world now in today's NFL where you can make genuine hay out of a true hybrid player. Remember the way we used to say, again, this is why the offensive weapon thing has always been ridiculous. But a running back moving out to play, to line up as a wide receiver, doesn't stress a defense. You think it does, but it actually doesn't. They move a linebacker out there, they move a safety out there, and actually the production's terrible. They're not worried about it. What really screws up a defense is when you take a wide receiver and put them in the backfield, because that messes up with the numbers. With the blocking numbers, it changes the math. It screws up your personnel packages on defense from when you looked at the huddle. It jacks everything. I think there's a world where a guy like Arvell Reese, where you can't tell what personnel package they're in based off him being on the field, causes problems for an offense. Suddenly, you don't know if you have to account for him in the blocking scheme, or if he's just ornamental and he's in coverage. I think that can really screw up a defense if a team is willing to tap into it.

Speaker 2:
[33:23] If you're willing to do it.

Speaker 3:
[33:24] The way most teams haven't. But Harbaugh's defences in Baltimore for years have been the closest ones that would do something like that. I checked earlier during the draft actually to see if they crossed over. But the other hybrid player way back when is, remember Adelius Thomas. I think he left the year before Harbaugh got to Baltimore, so it's not like they direct me.

Speaker 2:
[33:48] He was supposed to be the greatest free agent for Bill Belichick because he was like, oh, he lines up on the edge, and he's a safety, and he's a corner, and he's a linebacker.

Speaker 3:
[33:56] But I do, and we've had players that have dabbled at this stuff, and Michael Parsons and-

Speaker 2:
[34:01] Julian Peterson way back in this stuff.

Speaker 3:
[34:02] Yeah, Julian Peterson. And then remember when Von Miller was a two down, off the ball linebacker, and then an edge rusher. I just think there's a world where somebody thinks that highly of Arvell Reese. The Giants look at him and say, this is the best player in this draft. Well, then build a defense around him. Say, prove it. Go on, like construct the system around this dude and let him go nuts.

Speaker 2:
[34:23] I mean, even just adding Tremaine Edmonds in Free Agency and the different types of long body types that they have and versatile players. Mike McDonald talks about, can you take your front five and completely disguise them?

Speaker 3:
[34:35] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[34:35] And rush the passer from there. I'll add one more piece because I love the division stories that come out of the draft. So, if Reese and Abdul Carter are, they're hybrid linebackers and Carter moved around a lot, he would line up in the A gap last year a lot, he'd spy. So, now you have two guys who could spy quarterbacks in the division that have Jalen Hertz and Jaden Daniels. So, you've got guys that are pass rushers, they can spy, they have linebacker skills, they have edge rush skills. Now, look, I'm a sucker for this stuff sometimes, and I try to back off being a sucker for this. The Isaiah Simmons, versatility, if you, you know, Jack of all trades, master of none, just be careful with that. So, the risk with Reese is if you're trying to make him a full time edge, or if you're trying to make him a full time edge, you might not be able to do it. Full time linebacker, the value might not be there in the top five, but if you could tap into all of those skillset, maybe you hit the home run. So, I'm interested to see what they do. The next domino to fall is what happens with Kavon Thibodeau, who I still think is a good player, but overall disappointing, I would say, as the number five overall pick a couple years ago. But for a team that needs a pass rusher or a number two pass rusher, could be a nice trade piece for the Giants and a nice addition for a team, but see what they're willing to pay, because he's up against it contract-wise.

Speaker 3:
[35:49] As you said, the post-game press conferences are all over the place now, so I haven't seen if they've answered this question already. But do you think that drafting him as high as five straight out says with their intent that he's not an off-the-ball linebacker for them?

Speaker 2:
[36:05] Yeah, I mean, I think most teams want him to rush the passer more, and the only time he dabbles as a linebacker is maybe some early down stuff, but he's a pass rusher. But then on third down, it's Reese, Abdul Carter, and Brian Burns, and we're moving you guys around. I'm going to say Thibodeau's out at some point, you're moving those guys around, and you're creating mismatches and indecision for the offense.

Speaker 3:
[36:28] One reason I feel a lot better about him than I do with some of these other hybrid players, and again, I'm with you that I tend to get a little bit suckered in to general hybrid, the theory of this guy. That classic story of the theory of this player is actually better than what he is. But the Isaiah Simmons thing in particular, Isaiah Simmons, the problem with him, I think, is that what he was, was not where the NFL wanted to put him. He wasn't really a hybrid, what he was, was a big safety. Because he was a big safety, the NFL looked at that and said, you're a linebacker, don't be ridiculous. This six foot five, 240 pound, that you're not a safety, you're a linebacker. Stop playing as something you're not, you're a linebacker. And the problem is, he wasn't a linebacker, and so he just became not a good football player. The thing with Arvell Reese though, is I think even if you decide he can't actually be a full time edge rusher, and so okay, I guess we gotta move him back to linebacker, I think he's awesome at linebacker. I think he's a really good off the ball linebacker.

Speaker 2:
[37:29] A lot of teams have it.

Speaker 3:
[37:31] So my point is, I don't think you have the same fear that you do with an Isaiah Simmons, where if you can't, if you just have to move him to linebacker. One of my favorite plays for Arvell Reese is a play where he actually gets beat in coverage. But he, from being up at the line of scrimmage, he gets into Wisconsin, he's at the line of scrimmage, he drops and he runs at the tight end on a post route, and then he turns back inside, so he doesn't run outside with him and just try and shadow him. He opens his hips and flips back to the quarterback, drops underneath the play, and then it just gets over his arm and gets through to the tight end anyway. But like that's an absurd coverage play for a dude who's being talked about as a pass rusher.

Speaker 2:
[38:10] Chad is suggesting that Harbaugh said he's lining up next to Tremaine Edmonds and he's playing linebacker.

Speaker 3:
[38:16] Nice.

Speaker 2:
[38:17] That doesn't take them out of the running to use them as a blitzer. Or a hybrid player. As a hybrid player in sub-packages and on third down, but I think there's a lot of flexibility. Edmonds is an athletic freak and he's long and you've got Reese and you've got Abdul Carter and Brian Burns. It's a really interesting mix on that side of the ball. They just need help with defensive tackle now with Dexter Lawrence out. And by the way, Dexter Lawrence pick.

Speaker 3:
[38:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[38:41] Go ahead.

Speaker 3:
[38:42] I just, I encourage the chat to continue to fill in our blanks from press conferences where we won't be able to see anything.

Speaker 2:
[38:49] Yeah, yeah, please. If you guys have gotten some information from pressers already, I like to watch those either tomorrow or after the draft, especially the post draft ones.

Speaker 3:
[38:57] But any questions we posed that have been answered by the coach?

Speaker 2:
[39:00] Please let us know.

Speaker 3:
[39:01] Absolutely. Help us.

Speaker 2:
[39:02] We've been working. We've been live here the whole time. So then forever the Dexter Lawrence pick becomes Francis Mauigoa. Did they say he's playing guard? Because that was our projection during the live show. The assumption is that he's going to be the plug and play right guard, fills a position of need. Jermaine Luminor gets re-signed at right tackle. They have Andrew Thomas at left tackle. So assuming that Mauigoa is their right guard of the future here.

Speaker 3:
[39:27] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[39:27] And maybe a future right tackle at some point.

Speaker 3:
[39:29] Yeah, I guess. An insurance policy, if nothing else, right? Like if Luminor gets hurt, you can, that theoretically you can immediately kick him out to tackle as your insurance. That would be a decent upgrade over just a random backup swing tackle. The interesting thing about this to me, you said you're in the broadcast, is if you are planning on him being guard, unless the sort of position, flexibility, the insurance policy is valuable to you, you're right there declaring that he's a better guard than Venga Ioane, because that was a player that was being paired with them at number 10 quite often. But the point being, clearly they had this intention of tone setter on defense, tone setter on the offensive line, let's get tougher.

Speaker 2:
[40:11] Yeah, and I think, yeah, that's a nice couple first picks here.

Speaker 3:
[40:15] And you're doing that with Maui Noa, I mean, 6'5, 6'6, 330 pounds, dude moves people when he hits them, like, you're getting stronger and tougher up the middle with Maui Noa.

Speaker 2:
[40:25] We have our friend Mike Renner, who thinks he's got potential all-pro ability, all-pro, whatever, at guard. Brandon Thorne liked him better at guard. I think he's a people mover at the line of scrimmage. I think some of his lunging and some of the bad reps that he had on the edge might be mitigated on the interior.

Speaker 3:
[40:42] Harbaugh says, guard with tackle versatility.

Speaker 2:
[40:44] Yeah, so as expected there, right? So that's great. I mean, the idea of, OK, if there's an injury, you could kick him out. And we theorized, hey, why would you maybe separate him from Venga Ioane, who just got drafted by the Ravens, Harbaugh's old team? The positional versatility is a great tiebreaker for Maui Noa to have him go at 10. Ioane goes at 14. Ioane is a guard only, and Maui Noa could play a tackle if he needs to. So the positional versatility, the toughness, the run games improved, and the Giants all of a sudden, remember, we're two, three years removed from them perennially having a top, bottom three or four offensive line. They're much closer to the middle of the pack, and if a couple of things hit, maybe even closer to the top 10 now, especially if Maui Noa is special. So that's the Giants at five and 10. Then some drama happened, Sam.

Speaker 3:
[41:32] Drama.

Speaker 2:
[41:33] First trade up of the draft, the Kansas City Chiefs came up from nine to six to take Mansoor Delane, the cornerback out of LSU, and then Peter Woods eventually is their pick at pick 29. So the Chiefs go back to back defensive players with both of their picks. They gave up a three and a five to move up from nine to six to take Mansoor Delane, the consensus top cornerback in the draft.

Speaker 3:
[41:59] Yeah, and I think with Jermod McCoy falling presumably because of the knee injury concerns, the gap between Mansoor Delane and anybody else became pretty overwhelming. You know, like it was seen as a sort of a top two, and then maybe some people had McCoy as number one if his knee was healthy, and then the second that started to be flagged as a potential long-term problem. It's like it's Delane by a mile, and then, you know, we can debate Chris Johnson, DeAngelo Pons, whoever is number two. But, like, if you want the corner, this is the guy you want to go for. I think Delane is a top tier prospect. I don't know why he wasn't talked about more as a genuine blue chip player in this draft. But again, particularly this draft, we're like there aren't any, right? So why were we not focusing more on Delane who, okay, it's one year of being this player, but this player is a top tier blue chip caliber prospect. Like he's an elite cover guy. He was absolutely locked down last season. The dude is incredibly patient, doesn't get beaten at all, right? Is a fluid athlete, has plenty fast. You know, what's the downside? Why are we not talking this guy up as a top tier player?

Speaker 2:
[43:12] I was so impressed with Delane's tape last year. He was pretty good at Virginia Tech and unbelievable at LSU. Everything about him. Footwork, you talked about the production, the footwork, the ball skills. From day one, he was outstanding, runs a 438 at his pro day. I think he ticked a lot of boxes. At the beginning of the year, I was not expecting him to be drafted this high. But after one week watching him in the Clemson game, it was like, it happens every year in college football. There's either a player in week one who comes out of nowhere and just looks like a first-rounder, or in this case, a player who just improves, that's where Delane is. And I think it's interesting that the Chiefs, sometimes we fall too much into these trends and we think, well, they're so good, they just have a pipeline of day three corners and that's their thing. Even though they drafted Trent McDuffie a couple years ago, they've done a good job of either finding corners or developing them. And I think you just trust the Chiefs that, hey, they're gonna find the next corner and identify, I should say, the next corner for Spags defense, go play press coverage, go play man, trust this guy, and this is your Trent McDuffie replacement. Now, did you give up a lot to get them? Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what those third and fifth round picks look like and everything. But I thought for the Browns, it was a great trade and we'll talk about how they got there. But the Chiefs get, I think, the top corner in the board. And as soon as he ran that 4-3-8, I was like, this dude's definitely going top 10. And the Chiefs identified it and went and got him.

Speaker 3:
[44:41] Actually, look, I really like the two players. Well, I really like the two players at the positions that the Chiefs were able to get them, right? Peter Woods, we can talk about how much you like him in a vacuum. But where they got him, I think it's good value. So I really like the two players that the Chiefs came away with in this draft. The questions for them would be the process of when you fold in the idea that you had Trent McDuffie, right? You had this player. Okay, you had to pay him. He was going to need to be paid, like one of the best corners in the NFL. But you had a top tier corner that you voluntarily moved away from, presumably just to get cheaper. And then, you had these extra draft picks, you did some trading, you end up with Mansoor Delane, you end up with Peter Woods, etc. It's like, yeah, that's really nice. But I feel like you have to fold in the fact that you traded away Trent McDuffie to start all this in the first place. It just needs to at least be a prism through which you view this decision-making tree.

Speaker 2:
[45:39] So the picket 29 that they end up picking up in the Trent McDuffie trade becomes Peter Woods. Woods last year at this time was thought to be top five.

Speaker 3:
[45:49] So like Peter Woods plus Mansoor Delane plus a couple of lower draft picks for Trent McDuffie. Like is that, I mean, you know.

Speaker 2:
[45:56] Yeah. I mean, plus a lot of cap flexibility. A lot of, and so Woods, you know, is this the long-term Chris Jones replacement potentially? Fascinating prospect. Another one who's maybe even was more productive as a true freshman than he was any other year. Disappointed as a junior. There was reasons for maybe his production being down as a sophomore when he played more on the edge as a 300-pounder. But I think he's got a ton of skills, coordination, good hands. It was just like every other Clemson player disappointed last year from a production standpoint, especially rushing the passer. So his best play was probably as freshman and sophomore years. I've shown the, I've talked about the data on that a little bit. Players that disappoint a little bit in the last year, it's not the biggest red flag. In fact, it actually might be a good arbitrage by low opportunity. And not that this always matters, but if you said last year at this time, hey, the Chiefs are going to get Peter Woods at 29, you'd say that's wild, that's crazy.

Speaker 3:
[46:54] And I thought he would be a how is how we do it moment.

Speaker 2:
[46:56] Right. He becomes good value in the late 20s or into the 30s to get Peter Woods here. So I like this move a lot for the Chiefs.

Speaker 3:
[47:02] That's the thing, like opinions, I think he was generally quite a polarizing prospect or is generally quite a polarizing prospect. And a lot of people were saying things like, man, I just don't see it with Peter Woods. I don't understand why he's being talked about as his top prospect at all. Like I just can't get there at all. I mean, you know, you turn on his tape and I think it's pretty obvious. Like the good plays are really good. And he doesn't just have one way of winning. He wins in a variety of different ways and all of them are pretty impressive. Now, is there negative attached to that? Sure. And did he get worse, you know, in his final year? Also sure. But I don't think it's that hard to look at him and be like, yeah, I mean, I get why you would hit your wagon to this guy. He's got quick. He wins with his hands and his ability to shed. Blanx is really, really good. He gets off people really quickly, despite being visibly pretty small with incredibly short arms and wingspan. He does. Really, whatever it was, but 12th or lower percentile in both arm length and wingspan for a guy who's pretty short and stumpy. That's not a good combination, but he sheds people immediately, like he's able to get off contact, makes plays in the run game, makes plays as a pass rusher. I get it. Maybe a ceiling is potentially limited, but I think he'll be a good player.

Speaker 2:
[48:20] High level for the Chiefs. They came in with nine picks. They're down to seven now, I assume. They gave up the extra two. I don't think they got anything in exchange. It's a big draft for them knowing, hey, they need this help on the defensive line. They couldn't get off the field on third down. A lot of the time, they have got questions on offense.

Speaker 3:
[48:37] Everyone must give them an edge rusher and instead they go interior.

Speaker 2:
[48:40] Yeah, but again, I think there's room for him next to Chris Jones and then Chris Jones might not be there in a couple of years. So that's the play for Kansas City. I like Woods here at 29. We'll see what they end up doing on the offense tomorrow. I think the what ifs are so fun in these drafts, the same way we've played this whole game with Xavier Worthy and the Chiefs and the Bills and the whole thing, that right before this Chiefs pick, Omar Cooper Jr, who we love, if he becomes a stud, are we going to be looking back at, well, that could have been Patrick Mahomes guy? Those are fun what ifs. I also think Denzel Boston would be a great fit for the Chiefs. Obviously, they passed on both of those guys to take.

Speaker 3:
[49:20] Well, two what ifs. If Omar Cooper Jr becomes a stud, and also if Rishi Rice gets himself into trouble again, true, that would have been an immediate, he could come in and be Rishi Rice for you, or you stick with Rishi Rice, you're like, let's roll the dice with this guy again, he's just something else, and now you're like, hmm.

Speaker 2:
[49:37] Or you could say the same thing about Jordyn Tyson, who goes at eight, if you're at nine and you're going to trade up, should it have been for the receiver instead of the corner? So I love the what ifs and the counterfactuals that we'll never know other than, hey, what if. All right, pick seven. Washington commanders go Sonny Styles linebacker out of Ohio State. We figured they'd go defensive side of the ball here. This is where as we're going through the draft, we gave Ruben Bain to Washington a bunch and to the Saints and Bain ends up going much later, but they go with the linebacker here in Washington.

Speaker 3:
[50:10] Yeah, it's funny. The sort of the draft process arcs of where guys are supposed to go, the grinding the mocks charts of where players are supposed to go. Pre-combine, Sonny Styles was sort of 10 to 15 range. We were giving it to Tampa Bay a lot, to Dallas, to blah, blah, blah. I don't think, and then post-draft was like, he's going top five. This guy is gone, right? He's becoming flavor of the month. He never sort of, he seemed to be below Washington and then above Washington, but nobody ever seemed to quite connect him with Washington, which is where he ended up going. Just kind of the funny quirk of the process.

Speaker 2:
[50:44] So we've got Sonny Styles tested unbelievably, good solid football player. I think he's got great range and coverage. Wasn't as good in one-on-one situations, but as a zone defender works downhill. I think he's one of the few linebackers that has a pretty good feel. When you're watching linebacker tape, it is so tough to have a feel for routes coming in behind you. It's like the weakness for every linebacker because offenses are trying to make you wrong every single time. I think one of the few linebackers that has a feel for that, Sonny Styles, just general zone awareness. He's pretty good against the run. I don't think he's great. I don't think he's a generational linebacker prospect or anything like that, but he's good all around and still young at the position.

Speaker 3:
[51:22] Generational physical specimen.

Speaker 2:
[51:24] He certainly is, he absolutely is.

Speaker 3:
[51:25] Athletic, size, he's built in a lab in terms of what you would want a classic off the ball linebacker to look like. And is young at the position because he was a former safety. Talking about Isaiah Simmons, guys out of position in terms of body size, they went, you know what, you're not a safety either, it's time to play linebacker. They at least made the move before he made it to the NFL. But yeah, it's not like this guy's been playing linebacker the whole way and therefore should know everything. He's still growing into this position and is already really good at it.

Speaker 2:
[51:58] And then I mentioned on the live show the one-on-one rep that he had in the college football playoff in 2024 against a draft pick, Texas right tackle, Cameron Williams. He did show the pass rush ability, dipping the edge.

Speaker 3:
[52:08] I do think that's an interesting element to him. Yeah, like everyone's been focusing on Arvell Reese and this hybrid ability and could he rush the passer? If anything, Sonny Styles is closer to a conventional edge rushing body type than Arvell Reese is.

Speaker 2:
[52:23] Dan Quinn.

Speaker 3:
[52:24] And he goes to Dan Quinn who's got experience doing that with multiple different players.

Speaker 2:
[52:28] We love doing this. Now, we did this with Devin Lloyd a few years ago. It never materialized. He was just a linebacker with good pass rush.

Speaker 3:
[52:34] Yeah, I'm not saying they will. I'm just saying it's interesting. We're not talking about that. Nobody is.

Speaker 2:
[52:38] It's a good third element to his game. I think he is a good three down linebacker because of his coverage ability, his range, his athleticism, but also his ability to blitz and make an impact rushing the passer as well.

Speaker 3:
[52:51] A really underrated part of Ohio State's defense, I think, is tackling. That group, all of them are great tacklers. Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs, those guys are all really good tacklers, fundamentally sound tacklers that don't just fall face first at a guy's knees. They're all trying to wrap, they break down, they don't get completely out of control. They're all good tacklers. If you're 6'5, 250, with incredibly long arms and a wingspan and are able to move, and you're a sound fundamental tackler, you're a difficult guy to get by.

Speaker 2:
[53:30] Iron Will drops a comment in here. He wants to correct us that the Arizona run game, they do have Elijah Wilkinson coming in at right tackle, did a nice job. But he's saying that he did a nice job in the good run block grade from the artist formerly known as PFF in their zone heavy scheme. That maybe that adding Maui Noa wouldn't have helped their run game, that they're good with Jeremiyah Love.

Speaker 3:
[53:57] Yeah, I mean, look, somebody else said that you, in fact, somebody said it and you agreed that Maui Noa would have made a bigger difference to their run game than Jeremiyah Love.

Speaker 2:
[54:07] Are you blaming me?

Speaker 3:
[54:08] Oh, okay. I didn't commit either way on that. I'm just saying you and somebody else in the chat said that I didn't commit either. I think that could go either way.

Speaker 2:
[54:16] Also for the record, I don't love the idea of taking Maui Noa at three.

Speaker 3:
[54:20] My point would simply be that the three center right guard and right tackle, whoever they're going to be, right? I don't know that you can look at that group and be confident that they're good enough that Jeremiyah Love makes sense. Now the problem is, again, if you got past one on the flow chart, I think he says yes to every other aspect of it. So maybe my thing with the flow chart is just broken by this draft where every other aspect goes the other way. So maybe you just say what the hell to step one on the flow chart.

Speaker 2:
[54:49] It doesn't matter. Just grab the best players and get out of here.

Speaker 3:
[54:52] I mean, I made this joke about Josh Nars. And he's like, yeah, who really cares about accuracy? It's like, you know, if you live long enough to become the villain, right, I've gone from never draft to running back in the first round. All of a sudden, I'm like, yeah, what the hell, three overall. Why not?

Speaker 2:
[55:06] We can't find a better option.

Speaker 3:
[55:08] So what the hell?

Speaker 2:
[55:09] As you get older, you find out you just don't want to be on Old Takes Exposed.

Speaker 3:
[55:13] Yeah. Again, I still don't think I would have done it, but this is as close as I can come to a sound argument for it at three. I get it. I don't hate it.

Speaker 2:
[55:24] All right. Mickey Loomis made a pick at eight, and then there were five picks traded. The next five picks were involved in trades after Mickey. Mickey didn't trade up.

Speaker 3:
[55:37] He held firm.

Speaker 2:
[55:37] At pick eight, Jordyn Tyson, wide receiver, Arizona State, is the selection for the New Orleans Saints. They had a weapon to sit next to Chris Olaivave for Tyler Shock.

Speaker 3:
[55:48] Yes. So, yeah, a guy that can complement Chris Olaivave and maybe succeed him if they decide Chris Olaivave's concussion history or whatever is too scary to re-up with a big money deal long term. Tyson's been a fascinating prospect this draft because somewhere along the line, he was wide receiver one, and then it was like, oh man, I don't know, the injuries, is he really that tough, blah, blah, blah. And then you look again at his grinding the mocks chart, and he's sliding, he's sliding, he's sliding. And then he works out his pro day, and it's like, oh no, he's going to the top five. Don't even worry about it. He's wide receiver one. OK, it doesn't make it five, but goes to the Saints. You know, I get it. He's twitchier than Carnell Tate. There's, you know, he's got that sort of, you said he reminds you a bit of Odell Beckham Jr, the way he ran routes. He also reminds me actually a bit of Stevie Johnson, the way he ran, actually some similarities in terms of like it takes him a little longer than you want sometimes. Yeah, it's a little bit too much, you know, sometimes maybe, but he's so sudden, he's so twitchy, that he's such a smooth mover, not a smooth mover, but like a sudden, incredibly dynamic mover, it's really difficult to stick with him. And he's got, like his highlight reel is spectacular, right? There's a touch of the, you know, whether it's Stevie Johnson, whether it's a Brandon Lloyd as well, had a bit of this as well, like the high-end stuff is absurd.

Speaker 2:
[57:20] So yeah, I think he's just got that moves differently about him. He's missed a lot of time injury-wise, I think that's still a concern, interested to see how confident the Saints are coming out of that, but he just moves really well. I know his wide receiver won for a lot of people. You and I both preferred Tate, but I get it. Like I get Tyson, a guy that size, moving the way he does, dynamic, both route running and after the catch, you know, with the ball in his hands, does a lot of nice things. And he's the guy at eight. And now, so Olaivave's got his concussion history with the Saints. And now Tyson with his injuries, and Shuck's like 26 now already in year two.

Speaker 3:
[58:00] With an injury history.

Speaker 2:
[58:01] Yeah, with an injury history. The Saints are just in a fascinating spot here.

Speaker 3:
[58:05] You'd want to have a good doctor on staff.

Speaker 2:
[58:08] I'm curious how much, I mean, with the Olaivavega thing, that's more happened in the NFL, but in the last two years, they've taken Shuck and they've taken now Tyson with this injury history and said, all right, we'll kind of roll with it, right? So it's going to be interesting these next couple of years, because I think the Saints are on the upswing. I think they've added a lot more talent on the defensive side of the ball the last couple of years. The last two years, they've drafted two starting tackles. Now they added a QB and a receiver over the last couple of years as well. So they're out of the cap hell, right? They've got a lot more flexibility now. So the Saints are on the upswing and Tyson could be a home run if all the, you know, if he stays healthy.

Speaker 3:
[58:45] Yeah. I think he's a good player. There's a few sort of things that gnawed me a little bit in terms of the negatives list. Like he's got that late stage Isaac Bruce stuff where he'll just catch the ball and fall over onto the floor rather than take a hit. You know, like he's not just, he just does, he just bails, right? He's like, ah, the play's over. Including times where like, you know, you needed the two yards, like it's third and four or whatever and you'll just hit the ground after two yards. Like dude, I mean, sometimes you gotta-

Speaker 2:
[59:10] There's a lot to like in those, he leaves you wanting just a lot more.

Speaker 3:
[59:13] In a lot of ways, right? In that way, I think he gets stuck on contact more than a Carnell Tate. You know, we talked about how Carnell Tate's so good at avoiding, you can't get hands on him. He's really good at stopping to do that. Jordyn Tyson, you know, you can get your hands on him. Now, sometimes he's so twitchy and so elusive that he can get away from you. But if you get your hands on him, he will let you sort of stick on the way a Carnell Tate doesn't. Sometimes the ball skills are not what they were, plus, of course, the injury history. So there's a few things that you sort of stack together. This is why I think that Carnell Tate is like reasonably comfortably a receiver one, because he just don't have the concerns. Tyson might have a higher ceiling than Carnell Tate, but I think there's three or four things that scare you about him in a way that you're not with Tate.

Speaker 2:
[60:01] All right, man, so let's go, these next few picks were all traded. This one was the tail end of the Chiefs trade. The Browns went from six to nine. At nine, they take Spencer Fano. As soon as that happened, we theorized, hey, if that was the guy that they really wanted at six, and they were gonna get him at nine, and they picked up an extra three and a five, and I love this again for the Browns. Back to back years, I've really enjoyed their trades down. So, Fano, top tackle on the board for me. He'll plug and play either at left or right tackle for them. We'll see what they end up trying to do here, but I think he's the top player at that position, and the Browns filled a big need and picked up a couple extra picks.

Speaker 3:
[60:40] Yeah, look, the Browns get ridiculed a lot, including sometimes by me, but I actually, between last year and then the first round this year, I love their process, right? The only question-

Speaker 2:
[60:51] As I've said, most non-Dashawn Watson, Andrew Berry moves are pretty strong. It's just when you suck the salary cap and the draft capital dry with one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, it's really tough to overcome.

Speaker 3:
[61:07] When he's not making the worst move in NFL history, he's making good moves.

Speaker 2:
[61:11] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[61:12] Yeah, look, the only quibble really with last year's draft was, OK, the players we really like, but they're almost all at positions that were not needs and not particularly the linebacker, running backs, blah, blah, blah, whereas they had some other needs they might have addressed. That was your only real quibble. But otherwise, I think last year's process was really good. Then they got unlucky in terms of all the quarterbacks that were supposed to be there this year were crap in college football, so they went back or didn't materialize. But everybody in the world was giving them a tackle or a wide receiver. And we were like, well, I would take Carnell Tate at six and then come back for the tackles, because they're not really worth that high end pick. Well, they didn't have that available to them because Carnell Tate went at four. And if they saw it the same way, well, then let's trade down. Let's take a tackle at nine instead of six, and then we can still get a wide receiver later. And Spencer Fano, I think, is arguably the best offensive lineman in this draft, whether you see him as a tackle or a guard. His arms are 32 and 7 eighths inches, which is below the threshold that some people want, the 33 inch threshold, but only by an eighth of an inch. I honestly think he could play any of the five offensive line positions well for them. So whether they want to plug and play him at left tackle, whether they want to move him in, like if they realize sooner rather than later that Zion Johnson isn't good, maybe they play him at guard, right? He'll play somewhere for this team and make the offensive line better.

Speaker 2:
[62:37] It's like the Titus Howard thing. I always forget which position he's better at, guard or tackle. So if they need Titus Howard to play right tackle, and they have to put Fano at left tackle, and then Dewan Jones goes back to be in swing tackle, they've got some options now for a team that just a couple of months ago had zero starting offensive linemen.

Speaker 3:
[62:54] My assumption would be the position of most acute need is left tackle, therefore he starts at left tackle until we see otherwise. But theoretically, the worst offensive lineman you find in training camp, Fano can be better then.

Speaker 2:
[63:07] And by the way, the short arm thing that we've talked about so much on this show.

Speaker 3:
[63:11] Why everybody in this draft has short arms? What's the deal?

Speaker 2:
[63:14] Over the last two years, Will Campbell last year, the Ruben Bain stuff this year, Fano, I blame the combine because Fano was 12% better at his pro day, whatever. But the other right tackles that have overcome that and been good the last couple of years, Luke Gettyky with the Tampa Bay Bucks, Braden Smith with the Indianapolis Colts, it's not this insurmountable thing that you have to be really good otherwise. Fano is a great technician, he's got unbelievable athleticism, he has the technique to overcome and to become a good tackle in this league, in the national football league.

Speaker 3:
[63:50] The national. Yeah, his arms are an eighth of an inch shorter than Rashawn Slaters, who's a pro bow caliber left tackle. And you know, Dante Scarnacchi has made this point before, like Hall of Fame caliber, Patriots offensive line coach for years. So are you telling me that an eighth of an inch is the difference between this guy being able to play or not? Like obviously not, right? Now it's good to have thresholds and discuss, you know, whether a guy generally is an outlier or whatever, but like, you know, if his arms were an eighth of an inch longer, we'd be like, he meets the threshold, he's really good, he's our left tackle, right? You shouldn't go from that to like, nope, he's a guard based off an eighth of an inch. He can play, and I think, again, one of the things that makes you feel better about a guy that's an outlier in one of these physical areas is if you can see an area on tape where he's already offsetting that, right? Like, he's doing something already, whether taught or naturally, that stops it being a problem, right? With some offensive lineman, you can see the footwork, right? And it's like, dude, it doesn't matter if you stomp your arms, he's always in your way. His feet are so good, he's always between you and the quarterback. With Fano, the thing that he does amazingly well is, he's got this great ability to, like, flash his hands, to throw feints at offensive lineman, and get them to commit, and then block them, right? So he'll flash his hands, the defensive lineman will come in with a swipe or whatever, and then he'll go and block them. And like, at that point, it doesn't matter that his arms are shorter than the defensive ends, he's come in after the guy's committed to his move, and now he's just latched on and he's able to offset it. So he's already showing you how he wins with the shorter arms and other guys.

Speaker 2:
[65:25] All right, and then the other Browns pick, KC Concepcion at 24. So they go wide receiver from Texas A&M. That also completes the Travis Hunter trade down from last year, so you start to add that up. It was, you know, they trade down, still get Mason Graham.

Speaker 3:
[65:38] Which again, looks like really good process.

Speaker 2:
[65:40] Yeah, still get Mason Graham, you get Quinshawn Judkins, you get KC Concepcion. Was there another player in there? They exchanged some other late round picks. That's the three for one play. You give up one Travis Hunter for three starters, basically. And Concepcion has as much upside as any receiver in this draft.

Speaker 3:
[65:58] He really does. I wrote, actually I didn't realize I'd written it down this succinctly anywhere in my notes. But like best separator in the class, but some of the worst ball skills. Pretty much sums him up, right? Now, and the thing is though, his ball skills are not so bad that you're immediately out, right? Like there are players where you look at them and say, that dude just can't catch, I'm not drafting him, I don't want him, right? Like it's disqualifyingly bad, right? His aren't that bad, they're borderline, but the borderline can go either way. You could either be in a situation like, man, this is more hassle than it's worth, and Jerry Dutie is kind of that guy, right? Jerry Dutie still separates really well, but the dude misses a lot of plays. So maybe he's another one of those guys, and that wouldn't feel good, you know, the Browns already have a Jerry Dutie, do they want a second one? But maybe it goes the other way. And maybe, yeah, like one year, he'll have a bad drop rate, or maybe he's always gonna drop a couple more than you would want, but like overall, the dude's the best separator in the class, so it's way worth it, right? I think he's a fascinating prospect because he's fluid, fast, smooth moving, he roasts even good cornerbacks, like his tape is awesome. He's great run after the catch. He had multiple punt return touchdowns this season, so there's value add as a return guy as well. Way back, NC State, was that where he was at before? They were giving him like, Debo Samuel Bankfield carries, and he was doing really well at that as well. Like he's bigger than you think he is as well. Like six foot, almost 200 pounds, he's got some sort of heft to him as well. There's a lot to like, but the ball skills do worry me.

Speaker 2:
[67:31] Yeah, and it's not just straight up drops. I mean, his contested catch rate was reasonable, but there's just a few other off-target throws. I don't think he's, the catch radius isn't always there, but you get it. Like I get the athleticism, and you know, back into the first, I think it makes a lot of sense. End of the day for the Browns, they picked up a three and a five. We knew they were, we assumed they were going tackle, receiver, receiver, tackle. This is the combo, Fano and KC Concepcion.

Speaker 3:
[67:56] And if you'd said that, you know, we, I mean, Carnell Tate and whoever was a sort of popular combination, I mean, Fano and Concepcion is a pretty good, you know, even if you're just doing the gaming, the pre-draft, you know, tackle wide receiver, we receiver tackle, it's about as good as you're going to get. Plus, you know, they traded back. So they got tackle receiver, the two names they got, plus they added draft picks.

Speaker 2:
[68:19] All right, the trades continued. We'll hear about them in just a second. First from FanDuel. FanDuel. Oh, am I supposed to do it? I thought we had the pre-record. All right, right now, new FanDuel customers can bet $5 and get 250 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. That's right, turn five bucks into 250 in bonus bets, just for getting started. And when every possession matters in the playoffs, FanDuel makes it easy to get closer to the action, from player props on your favorite stars, to all the tools you need to back them up. FanDuel puts player research right at your fingertips, so you can check stats, trends, matchups, all in one place, and make your picks with confidence. It's everything you need, all in one app, so don't miss your shot. Head to fanduel.com/33rd to get started. FanDuel, play your game. 21 plus in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Dark Casino, or 18 plus in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-advertisable. Bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Gambling problem, call 100 Gambler or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpgit.org/chat in Connecticut. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Visit gamblinghelpline.ma.org. Call 800-327-5050 in Massachusetts. Call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York, or call 1-877-770-7867 in Louisiana. Always just fascinated by this. We've been away from PFF for a year and a half now. And someone went looking for us at PFF and found us here, tonight, a year and a half later. If you loved us that much, where did you think we went for a year and a half?

Speaker 3:
[70:02] I do wonder that.

Speaker 2:
[70:04] It's fine if you don't.

Speaker 3:
[70:05] Absolutely. But it is kind of fascinating to me. The guys are like, man, I didn't know you'd gone from PFF. And here you are. Where did you think we were the last two? Anyway, it's fascinating. We lose the ties and we become an instant professional shambles again. Apparently, the ties are the only thing holding us together from professionals.

Speaker 2:
[70:25] And then I also didn't realize we down, down. I'm wearing my quarter zip on the FanDuel ad, the previous ad.

Speaker 3:
[70:33] Right, that's a continuity problem.

Speaker 2:
[70:35] Big continuity problem. But here we are, scratching the surface.

Speaker 3:
[70:38] Again.

Speaker 2:
[70:39] The Dallas Cowboys traded up from 12 to 11, secured one spot up to secure Caleb Downs, the safety out of Ohio State, the defensive playmaker that the Cowboys wanted. And then they traded down later in the first round to get Malachi Lawrence, UCF edge rusher. So I think at the end of the day, I don't know what the exact picks were.

Speaker 3:
[70:59] Right, what did they net out as?

Speaker 2:
[71:00] They netted out the same number of picks. They traded up one spot, they traded down three spots. The second trade was really interesting because they traded in the division with the Philadelphia Eagles who get Makai Lemon. There's a whole story around him which we'll get when we talk Eagles. But what are your thoughts on the Cowboys, Caleb Downs and Malachi Lawrence here?

Speaker 3:
[71:20] Look, I think Caleb Downs is one of the seals of the draft. I think the two cleanest best players in this draft were Jeremiyah Love and Caleb Downs. In a down year for elite blue chip talent, it's not that I'm surprised Caleb Downs slid this far, but I think it ends up being great value because he's just so good. Again, I think people over thought the Caleb Downs thing consistently. This guy had been talked about as being basically the best player in the nation for his entire college career, did it at multiple blue blood programs, did it at multiple safety positions. One was way more of a deep safety, one was closer to the line of scrimmage, and he's just awesome at everything. Like his pros list is yay long. His concerns are like maybe he's not, you know, built like Kyle Hamilton, and that's basically it. But he's an awesome football player. In addition to being a great leader and extremely smart and able to get everyone on the defense lined up together, you know, you can never speak in absolutes as things go differently than you think they would. But this feels like an absolute homerun hit.

Speaker 2:
[72:27] It's a really nice difference in the two picks too, is Caleb Downs is just the good, pure football player who didn't have the testing numbers and doesn't have that piece of it maybe ticked as far as like we know he's a great athlete other than what you see on film. And then Malachi Lawrence is like your perceived upside edge rusher, right? But with Downs, you know, we all agreed all the way along the process, Brian Branch type, the comps that we've used as far as production goes, Brian Branch, Antoine Winfield, Kyle Hamilton, Derwin James, I mean, he's in that bucket of what we think he's going to become as a player. Maybe not the same role, maybe not the same size or skill set, but wherever they deploy him, I think whether when he's covering the slot, when he's covering tight ends, when he's playing in the box, when he's playing deep, like he could do it all. The question for Downs, with three years of production across Bama and Ohio State, the game athleticism testing numbers across multiple companies are like, man, we don't have a lot of great straight line speed numbers on him. We don't have great athleticism numbers and he didn't test.

Speaker 1:
[73:29] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[73:29] Now, positions I care the least about that, it's like kicker punter safety, speed.

Speaker 1:
[73:37] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[73:37] Safety is right there. I care the least about speed. It's nice when you have it and you're a good football player like Dillon Thieneman. It's nice that he runs in the four threes because it shows up, it's a big part of his game. But I'm watching Downs and I'm like, man, he's agile in his eyes. He's going to be in position and I don't see, first of all, I don't see a lack of speed and I don't see it being an issue.

Speaker 3:
[73:59] That's the thing. It's like, okay, let's say for a minute that the in-game athleticism stuff, the computer vision, however teams are doing it, the computer tracking stuff, let's say that's legit and he's just an average athlete. Okay, my next question would be, show me the plays where it's a problem. Okay, I'll take that. I will accept that the tracking data and the computers are smarter than my eyes, right? They're better than that. That's why we have this stuff. So show me the plays where it became a problem and he gave up because there were big plays against him because of it. I don't think they're really there. Now obviously there's a play or two, but it's not a problem on his tape, right? You're not looking at this and saying, man, there's a play where he's too slow. There's a play where he doesn't read it fast enough. There's a play. So Ed Reed is the guy that always came up, which is kind of funny because Caleb Downs is, you'll see Twitter is full of these crazy haters, or take everything too extreme. It's like he's small, slow, and undersized. It's like, okay, he's the same height and weight as Ed Reed, and Ed Reed ran a 457.40, so he's probably faster than him too. And Ed Reed, when you watch his tape, is full of stuff where he comes from nowhere, from the other side of the field, and makes an insane read and picks off Peyton Manning. That's like, he didn't do that because he ran a 43. He did that because in his head, he's three steps ahead of anybody else. That's what Caleb Downs is, right? His trigger is awesome, he reads it fast, he trusts his eyes, and he drives, and he gets there before you did because he set off before you did. Doesn't matter if he only runs a 45, and he might not, by the way. Maybe he runs a 44, we just never got a number on it. But let's say he runs a 45. It doesn't matter because he sets off running before you did. So all the stuff where that could conceivably be a problem, he shows you on his tape, he's awesome at it. So I just think this guy is arguably the best football player in the draft, and the Cowboys got him at 11 because he's a safety.

Speaker 2:
[75:54] Shout out to Dane Brugler and the Beast as always. I just want to go through some of his off field positives because Dane's the best at accumulating.

Speaker 3:
[76:01] Yeah, have you found those now rather than asking me to find them on the fly?

Speaker 2:
[76:04] I thought you had his profile.

Speaker 3:
[76:05] I had it open, but it's like small type and there's a lot of bullet points.

Speaker 2:
[76:09] Oh, I thought you also knew the pattern. It's usually toward the end.

Speaker 3:
[76:12] Oh, no, I didn't know.

Speaker 2:
[76:13] But his start in the middle of all of his bullet points. Balances high level intelligence with disciplined decision making, veteran level communication skills, elite competitive toughness, voted one of four team captains. Teammates praised his all business attitude toward practice and meetings. And NFL scout says, our coach is going to love him because he's a process guy. How he prepares influences how he plays. I mean, and then I've heard Dane on other shows talk about he is absolute difference maker when it comes to the off field and the leadership and the whole deal. Feels like an important thing for Dallas and their defense. And then to get Malachi Lawrence on the other end. And look, we're all going to keep talking about the Micah Parsons. Go ahead.

Speaker 3:
[76:52] By the way, he's got so many positives in every profile that the bloodlines thing doesn't even come up. The fact that his brother is also a really good NFL player already and he's the bigger brother. Right? Normally, for a prospect, that would be one of the top two things you heard about him. By the way, his brother is an awesome player and he's bigger and stronger and faster than his brother. Right? That would be the leadoff hit for a lot of these guys. It's barely even in Caleb Downs' profiles anywhere because he's got 50 other things he's good at.

Speaker 2:
[77:19] Because everything else is so good. And then the Dallas defensive line, man. It's going to be fun. It's like the money ball. People think that money ball because of the line, we're just going to replace him in the aggregate. They think that's what money ball is. Like, we're going to money ball this thing.

Speaker 3:
[77:36] That's what I think it is.

Speaker 2:
[77:38] Just replace stuff in the aggregate. That's all money ball is, is to use the aggregate.

Speaker 3:
[77:43] You're still trying to replace Giambi. Can't do it.

Speaker 2:
[77:45] So Jerry's out there. He's like, President Clinton's coming in and we're just going to, and then after the, after, You're still trying to replace Micah.

Speaker 3:
[77:53] Can't do it. What we might be able to do is recreate him in the aggregate.

Speaker 2:
[77:57] Recreate him in the aggregate. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to fire a four over the Packers, get Rashawn Gary in here. We used a two on Azaracu last year. We're going to use our second one on Malachi Lawrence. Bring them all together. Quinn and Williams is coming in. The aggregate is there for Dallas. This is a fascinating group of defensive linemen that they have here. Kenny Clark coming in, of course, in that trade. Quinn and Williams at defensive tackle. And now the defensive ends are Azaracu, Gary, and Malachi Lawrence. And again, Lawrence, this is a nice place for him to fit in where Azaracu, I think, is a good early down run defender. And he can rush the passer. And Lawrence might just be a pass rusher only right now. Gary could play the run. They've got some options up there. I don't know if it all adds up to one Micah Parsons, but it's not. Like, they were weak up front last year. And I think they're moving in the right direction.

Speaker 3:
[78:48] Yeah, again, these decision making sequences from teams are always kind of fascinating to me, because I don't think you can just take each move in isolation. I think you have to look at the broader picture of what the plan is. I mean, if you ask me, trading away Micah, just not getting a Micah Parsons contract done, because you're the Dallas Cowboys, and despite Ian Rappaport's insistence that they tend to get out ahead of these deals, actually what they tend to do is drag ass and make them into problems, I think that was a bad way of doing things. I would have just locked up Micah Parsons and kept one of the best defensive players in the game and given him a monster payday and moved on with my life. Instead, the Dallas Cowboys drag it out, they burn the bridge, they end up trading him away. Once you've done that, what they've done is good, right? Yes, now the problem is I think the first thing they did was stupid and I would have done something different, but once you've burned that bridge, they've put the bridge back together pretty well. It's kind of like the Giants with Dexter Lawrence, right? Once you've set fire to the bridge, getting the 10th overall pick back for it is really good work, but I wouldn't have poured gas on the bridge and thrown a match on it, right? You don't need to do that. So I like what Dallas has done. Malachi Lawrence is a really interesting pick because, number one, he was talked about as maybe he could sneak into the first round. I mean, he went comfortably into the first round. And then, number two, he's this riser that's come up through the shrine ball, a renner, a renner find. Yeah. And he's twitchy. He's got all... He blew the doors off the combine. He's got elite pass rush moves. I wonder if he's got the kind of the run defense and the power to be the player that they believe he is with where they've drafted him. That would be my concern, but overall, I think it's a nice pick.

Speaker 2:
[80:36] Our friend John Ledyard loves him. Our edge rankings, we had John on here. We've got the explosiveness, his ability to challenge the edge and win in a few different ways. Maybe not as good of an all-around player and only 1300 snaps. The one-year breakout, you've got that question as well. So there's a few, yeah, buts to his game, as I always like to say, but love the upside here for a lot of us.

Speaker 3:
[80:58] Before we get off the Cowboys, can I just read you the last line of Dane Bruegler's The Beast on entry of Caleb Downs? Yes, of course. It's a good thing to sum him up. Overall, Downs sees the field like a chessboard and plays with an exceptional combination of intelligence, urgency and toughness, allowing him to be disruptive from anywhere on the field. His intangibles and on-field versatility will make him an impactful NFL starter early in his career. I mean, you are literally just talking about an awesome football player, no matter where you put him, no matter how you deploy him, don't overthink it, just draft the awesome football player.

Speaker 2:
[81:30] In Dallas, by the way, moving up one pick to secure him, I'm always interested on why you move up one pick. Because clearly the Dolphins weren't like, well, we were going to pick them.

Speaker 3:
[81:42] Right.

Speaker 2:
[81:42] Do you have that communication? Was the fear, who was the fear that someone was coming up? Was it Tampa? The Rams seemed hell bent on Ty Simpson.

Speaker 3:
[81:51] Right.

Speaker 2:
[81:52] The Ravens, I think they're not drafted in another safety. Was it the Bucs at 15? Was it the Jets at 16? Who do you think is coming up to leapfrog you, that you have to move up one pick? I'm always fascinated by those stories. Or if you're just like, just get it over with. I just got to get this guy in the building.

Speaker 3:
[82:08] I feel like that's, yeah, I feel like it's nervousness.

Speaker 2:
[82:12] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[82:13] Like, you just don't want to miss out on your guy.

Speaker 2:
[82:15] It's a bit of a panic.

Speaker 3:
[82:15] You're so close. Like.

Speaker 2:
[82:17] Throw two picks at him, let's make it happen.

Speaker 3:
[82:19] Because the Vikings did this with JJ McCarthy, right? It's like you had the discipline to wait him out and he gets there at 10 and then you're like, ah, we gotta jump one spot, one spot. You know, can't lose him. I feel like that's what happens is they get just there and then they're like, just make it happen. Just secure it rather than run the risk.

Speaker 2:
[82:34] Anyway, Dallas, with the two defensive players, one is maybe the best pure football player in the draft. One is a high upside pass rusher. Interesting dichotomy of the two players there. Kadyn Proctor is the next pick for the Miami Dolphins. So nice process by the Dolphins, I'd say, trading down, getting the extra couple picks, getting Kadyn Proctor at 12. He's a bit of a polarizing player, an absolute monster at 350 plus pounds, moves well. They fed him bubble screens, inconsistent tape. But I get it, the power in the high end plays are absolutely there. I describe him, I was really down on Tyler Guyton a couple years ago, the old Cowboys tackle, but I said his best plays are incredible. Proctor, I think, is better than that, but his good plays, you get it, and you hear what Saban was saying, and there's like a lot, if you can keep him on track, and what Duke Mannyweather's saying, Duke works with him, and I think there's this idea of if you keep him on track, this is a guy who was supposed to go top five a couple years ago, and I think the Dolphins and other people still think that's in him, and that it's in the range of outcomes here.

Speaker 3:
[83:38] Yeah, I mean, look, those are red flags, they're repeated, if you can keep him together, not a self-starter was one of the things that Saban said about him. He's like, he'll do everything you ask him to do, but he'll probably show up overweight, and he's not a self-starter. Those are not encouraging things to hear. I also don't love pairing that with South Beach. You know, that doesn't feel great either. However, and look, I had a lot of negatives in my notes when I was going through his tape. However, a lot of those offset if we're talking about him as a guard. Like, I wouldn't play him a tackle. I did not like his tackle, tape, I did not, I thought his negatives were too problematic a tackle. I thought he got beaten too cleanly for a dude that big, strong and fast and athletic. But you move him into guard, I mean, he's a monster. He's 6'7, 350, his footwork is fantastic. He's got the athleticism and the fluidity to play inside a guard, make any block you want him to, and the power to move people when he does it, and inside, you really do mitigate the amount of space he has to get out of, lose control of himself and whiff basically. So I really like him inside a guard. Did we get any clarification on this one? I assume they're playing him at guard right away as opposed to challenging...

Speaker 2:
[84:57] Bobby's got on there.

Speaker 3:
[84:58] That's true. As opposed to challenging Austin Jackson.

Speaker 2:
[85:01] So Austin Jackson's got one more year at right tackle, contract wise. Jamari Sawyer comes in to potentially compete at right guard. It's another one of those he could play guard for a year, then kick out to tackle, they'll let Jackson walk. We'll see what ends up happening. He played left tackle. In college, they've got Patrick Paul there. I thought his film got better as the year went on. He got smoked week one by Florida State. If you were just watching prospects at the time, this guy is projected to go top ten. Let's watch him week one against Florida State. He gives up five or six pressures, gets whooped by speed rushers, and it's like, he can't do this. But I think he got better with his pass sets and everything. And he's just got so much strength when he locks it in, backside of zone and everything. When he locks it in, he can do some damage in the run game. So it's a bit of a polarizing player. Again, some people think he's a guard. Some people think he's a tackle. Every time you mention Kadyn Proctor's name, Chatt's already doing it. You mentioned every previous. Izzy Andre Smith, DJ Fluker 2.0. Jonah Williams is the only guy that he's not comps to just because Jonah was a different style player. But you got Cam Robinson, you've got JC. Latham. Name your Bama tackles. All of those guys either went in the first or second round or talked about going really high.

Speaker 3:
[86:16] And it's not a great list.

Speaker 2:
[86:17] And overall disappointed, right? And what do you do with that? I hate the same school scouting. Did they get bumped up artificially? What happens there? So I think that's one of the things Proctor's battling against is like a decade of Bama tackles who have ultimately disappointed in the NFL.

Speaker 3:
[86:34] That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's not a great list results wise. The Saban stuff also scares me. It really does. Like, look, at some point in the NFL, you're going to need to be a self-starter, right? Everybody else is. And if you're not, you're behind the eight ball. And if you're going to show up to camp every time, 20 pounds overweight and have to spend the first month, you know, working your way back into shape, that's not helpful for your development. And then, like, so Andre Smith, remember the year the Bengals drafted Andre Smith and he held out, right? And that was the year they were on hard knocks. And one of the first scenes when he finally got signed and arrived, he rocks up. And Mike Brown is just like, I basically called him a fat guy to his face. I forget the exact wording, but Mike was basically like, man, you're kind of fat and out of shape, huh? You got to work on that. And it was like, whoa. I mean, you know, initially it was like, wow, that's sort of billionaire privilege right there, being able to call a guy just a fat dude to his face.

Speaker 2:
[87:29] However, Chats just mentioning every big Leonard Davis 2.0, they're just mentioning every player.

Speaker 3:
[87:34] He ended up basically being right. I mean, Andre Smith, had he not been such a fat dude who, you know, didn't work out when he was waiting for the-

Speaker 2:
[87:40] A couple of good years though, didn't he? A couple of good years.

Speaker 3:
[87:43] You know, ultimately, I think Mike Brown, the fact that Andre Smith did not appear to be a self-starter maybe worked against him.

Speaker 2:
[87:50] All right. So that was what the Dolphins did at 12. They moved down one spot, picked up a couple extra picks. They moved up. I love the teams that moved down and up in the same round. Both the Cowboys and Dolphins did that. Cowboys moved, I mean, Dolphins moved up to 27 to take San Diego State cornerback Chris Johnson. He ends up being the second corner off the board. I mean, if you're a Chiefs fan and you're... I saw some Chiefs fans upset about the Delane thing and we love Delane. The argument against the trade up was like, man, there's no other corners going here. It's either for or against. It's either a top heavy class or would you have been happy with a Chris Johnson later in the first? But Chris Johnson's really good player. I know we both liked him across this entire process here.

Speaker 3:
[88:29] Yeah, the corner group became very interesting when McCoy's knee became a thing, right? And when it's like all of a sudden, it went from being maybe two elite corners at the top of the class to actually, Mansoor Delane appears to be number one by a mile. And then it's like, do you prefer Chris Johnson, D'Angelo Pons, Brandon Cisse, Avion Torell, like whoever it is you like lower on. And Chris Johnson ends up being the guy. I think because again, it's like, what are you scared of? Like what's the red flag? Johnson doesn't really have one other than the fact that he was at San Diego State the whole way in his career. It's a bit like of the one year wonder thing. And then also, but if that's the thing that scared you, man, who did he face? Who did he play? Strength of competition. You answer that to a large degree by going to the senior ball, right? And spending a week practicing against all star level competition, where he looked really good, right? Like his senior ball, I thought he looked like, he certainly looked like he belonged. And if anything was impressive during the week.

Speaker 2:
[89:27] I was impressed with overall footwork, some of his patience, his ability to play in off coverage, had some big splash plays in there as well. And he tackled man. I thought, I love the way he came up and just ran through people and ran his feet through contact on short passes and everything. And look, the Dolphins have a million different needs. We started this whole process, slotting corners in there left and right. They trade Jalen Waddle, now they need receivers. I mean, they still have to sort those things out. We also predicted because it's John Eric Sullivan, former Packers regime, they're probably not done at corner. They'll double up at that position, I would think, and they'll probably get two or three receivers in this next wave. They have what, five more picks in the top 100 as of right now. So there's still a lot more to do for Miami. I don't, you know, I'm back and forth on the Proctor thing. I see both sides of it. I was talking to another team in the middle of the first round today. It's like, what do you think of Proctor? I'm like, I get both sides. Like I get both sides of it. Probably wouldn't be my pick, but I get it. But I really loved the Chris Johnson pick at 27.

Speaker 3:
[90:31] I honestly like Proctor at guard. If you had told me that the plan is to start him at left tackle, I would say, I'd be terrified of that. I'd say the guy loses way too much at left tackle. For a guy with his size, he's just getting whooped way more often than you want. However, inside, that power plays better. The speed and athleticism plays better inside. He won't lose as much inside. I like that pick as a guard inside. And then Chris Johnson just seems like the most solid pick he could have made at corner. I think it's a good pair of picks. And it's also a very Packers tree type of draft already. They've taken a tackle, they're kicking into guard. They've drafted one of the first of their multiple corners.

Speaker 2:
[91:12] Just all those guard tackle hybrids left and right. It is what they do. All right, the biggest surprise of round one. Pick 13, the Los Angeles Rams take Ty Simpson. There's already some controversy floating around and it's from Twitter slash X accounts that I don't trust. So I don't even know if I want to go there.

Speaker 3:
[91:34] Yeah, there's just a video of McVeigh just sitting there. I mean, that's it.

Speaker 2:
[91:38] I can't.

Speaker 3:
[91:38] Somebody's using a video of McVeigh not looking over the moon in a 30 second clip to basically say that McVeigh didn't want Ty Simpson.

Speaker 2:
[91:46] Are we playing it right now?

Speaker 3:
[91:46] But he doesn't say anything. He just sits there while Les is talking and doesn't beam with pride. Like it's nothing to me.

Speaker 2:
[91:54] Braden Fahoku, former NFL player who's got aggressive football takes.

Speaker 3:
[92:03] But this is literally it. He just sits there like that for the whole time, which to me means nothing.

Speaker 2:
[92:06] It's also the... So Kelly sent these to me originally. It's her fault. She sent one from ML. I need to tell her to block that account.

Speaker 3:
[92:15] Not that football. That guy, that's bad account.

Speaker 2:
[92:19] Block this account.

Speaker 3:
[92:19] It's not as bad as Dove, but it's pretty close.

Speaker 2:
[92:22] Block this account. But Sean, he's got a different clip of Sean answering questions and that he seems not happy through the process. So anyway, let's give our take on the situation. Jay Glazer breaks this thing while the Dolphins, the pick is in.

Speaker 3:
[92:40] Having said yesterday that he's got some massive news that he's not going to tell anybody until later. Can't tell people yet, but I got something. I got something cooking.

Speaker 2:
[92:48] Yeah. And so Jay, which I hate by the way. Jay Glazer breaks this news in the middle of Dolphins, Pick is in. It wasn't announced. And it's like, wow, the Rams are drafting Ty Simpson. He prefaces it and says, hey, Sean McVeigh told Matthew Stafford about this. He's aware. And he told him, it's for whenever you decide to move on. So no rush, Matthew, coming off your MVP season. His best, I don't know if his best overall season, but he's had, he was great this season. He's been really good with his Rams run. He's had a couple down seasons, but he's been really good. He had the back questions last year. He always feels like he might be one year away from retirement. But coming off of an outstanding year, and they draft Ty Simpson. So clearly, Les Snead at least loved him, despite the body language and everything. And here's why I won't read into any of that. I think they have a great working relationship. Les Snead and Sean McVeigh.

Speaker 3:
[93:45] But having said that, presumably, I mean, there will be, it has to be with everybody, right? There will be times where they disagree. And Les Snead will have final say if and when that happens. Like, if there's ever a, I mean, I can't imagine a world where, like, they disagree. Therefore, they refuse to make, you know, they just wouldn't draft that pick. Like, eventually, they'll disagree to the degree where one of them just has to make a call. And Les Snead's the guy that gets to make the call. So it is conceivable that, you know, Sean wouldn't have made this pick. Les would make the pick. And he gets to make the pick.

Speaker 2:
[94:16] I mean, the general manager's job is to think long-term. Yes. And coaches by nature think short-term.

Speaker 3:
[94:22] Right.

Speaker 2:
[94:23] And coaches by nature are like, how... I don't know where they had Makai Lemon on their board. I mean, it's like... But I'm sure Sean McVey is like, what could I do with Makai Lemon?

Speaker 3:
[94:32] It's like the Jordan Love pick, right? When the Packers drafted Jordan Love, it's like, yeah, sure, this works out well for the succession plan. On the other hand, maybe you'd win a Super Bowl now if you just gave Aaron Rodgers a first-round wide receiver. Right? Like, that had to have been a conversation that was being had in that building at some point, right? It's entirely plausible that it was being had here as well, where McVeigh is like, dude, I want Makai Lemon will win a Super Bowl this year, and Les is going, yeah, but what happens if Matthew Stafford's only got one year left? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[95:03] Look, I've criticized the Jordan Love pick a few years ago, and I said never again. Overcommitting to the quarterback position, I don't think is ever a bad idea. Now, we talk a lot about thinking probabilistically here and everything, like we're sitting here three or four years down the road. What are the actual odds that Ty Simpson's like a great next franchise quarterback for the Rams? It's low because it's low at the position, but I love the idea of doing it early. I love the idea of doing it now. Look, I mean, Sean McVeigh has been a cheat code for multiple quarterbacks as well. He helped develop Jared Goff. He's gotten the most out of Matthew Stafford. So, you know, if you're always a Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVeigh, is it always fine to get a quarterback in the building because you're good at developing quarterbacks? Maybe. But I think I'm good with this move. Now, if you're a Rams fan and you're sitting there with a unique position, being here in pick 13, and you could get Makai Lemon or Omar Cooper or someone that's not only going to help you in the short term, but also give you that wide receiver, too, to either pair with Pukinakua or give you some Pukinakua insurance, that's what we kept going to at Receiver. But man, I kind of love this move for the Rams because they're thinking of the future. It's not going to help them for this year. They're willing to sacrifice that. But they also have the best roster in the NFL right now, I believe. And they're able to do it.

Speaker 3:
[96:27] I think it's the best possible landing spot for Ty Simpson. So from his perspective, this could not have gone any better. Like number one, you're a first round picks, you got more money than you would have had if you were top of the second or whatever. Number two, you now get to learn at the feed of Sean McVeigh, an offensive mastermind behind Matthew Stafford, a future Hall of Famer, presumably at this point, and with no pressure to start anytime soon because Stafford's going to play for at least one more year, maybe two, who knows how much longer. So it, and I think Ty Simpson, I think actually does need to sit. Like I, A, he's incredibly inexperienced. B, I think his accuracy problems are potentially disqualifying. But we know now with Josh Allen and some other players, like you can improve accuracy. Maybe it requires some long-term fixing of fundamentals or whatever, but you can do it. So it's the perfect landing spot for him. From the Rams perspective, long-term, you do now have a successor to Matthew Stafford. They drafted Stetson Bennett. That probably wasn't going to be a long-term thing. We speculated that at some point they were going to need this. Where was it going to come from? Right at the start when they had this 13th overall pick, that by rights shouldn't have been theirs. It's the Falcons pick. The Rams are supposed to be picking at the bottom of the first round somewhere. All of a sudden, they've got this 13th overall pick. It's a gift. You're like, well, that could be the quarterback that they're never going to have a shot at otherwise. And they're like, unfortunately, that guy isn't really there. Well, if you talk yourself into Ty Simpson as having that kind of potential, it makes sense as the landing spot here. The concern is just, A, it means you're sacrificing a player that could help right now, Makai Lemon or whatever. Or we talked about offensive linemen. Their whole offensive line is going to need paying soon. Maybe you could have drafted Ioane or whatever. You could have drafted an offensive lineman. It does mean you're giving up something to do that. But otherwise, there's no downside to it. If you believe there is power to what the Packers did with Jordan Love, there is virtue to teaching a guy from the sideline for multiple years, then you can't hate this pick.

Speaker 2:
[98:40] And you go back to the Packers move with Jordan Love. I think us being against it was more about our evaluation of Jordan Love, again. Right.

Speaker 3:
[98:48] Huge. That was a big part of it.

Speaker 2:
[98:50] And I've softened on the stance of like, I don't think we are great overall as humans at evaluating the quarterback position at a high rate. So just take some shots, see what happens.

Speaker 3:
[98:59] Yeah. My objection to that was way more, I don't think Jordan Love is the guy than I don't like the Packers drafting Aaron Rodgers' successor.

Speaker 2:
[99:07] I'll tell you where we'll bring it up again, though. We're in the middle. They're going into the NFC championship again, and their Devonte Adams is banged up.

Speaker 3:
[99:16] Right.

Speaker 2:
[99:16] Right. Or the offensive line is missing a piece.

Speaker 3:
[99:19] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[99:20] Or they can't re-sign. They have four offensive linemen to re-sign.

Speaker 3:
[99:23] Pukunekua bites somebody.

Speaker 2:
[99:24] Right. Pukunekua just continues to act the way he's been acting. And so who knows?

Speaker 3:
[99:30] Pukas Suarez.

Speaker 2:
[99:31] So what if they had Makai Lemon? What if they had Fenga Ioane? What if they had another starter? When it happened with the Packers, remember they lost, was it two straight NFC? No, they lost an NFC Championship to the Bucs and then lost in the divisional round to the 49ers. And you'd say, well, what if they had another receiver? They needed another piece. Were they one piece away? So you asked that question. Was it the right move for the Packers long term? Absolutely. They stayed competitive and they have Jordyn Love. And Love's still a very good quarterback. It ended up being the right move. But you have those questions about what else they could have gotten. And I'll have to watch more of Sean McVeigh to try to figure out his body language.

Speaker 3:
[100:15] Psychoanalyzer. Look, ultimately I think he's going to buy in. Like maybe, again, the worst case scenario is it's not the pick he would have made. He's kind of upset they didn't draft Makai Lemon. It's, I mean, who cares? Ultimately, it's not like he's, it's not going to be a broken relationship from now on. It's like he'll be a little bit annoyed tonight and then they'll find somebody he likes tomorrow and it'll all be good with the world. And maybe it will work out. He'll realize the error of his ways if and when he turns Ty Simpson into a really good quarterback going forward and he has his quarterback of the future. Now, the scary part is, I mentioned this during the live show, Josh Norris had brought it up. It actually came originally from that guy Lou Reibs on Twitter. Round one quarterbacks since the year 2000 with fewer than 600 career pass attempts. So he's got 15 starts, which is a very low number, which means fewer than 600 career pass attempts. I said, it is five athletic freak shows and Mark Sanchez, and now Ty Simpson.

Speaker 2:
[101:10] I guessed a few of them before.

Speaker 3:
[101:12] Actually, so those are the guys that had fewer than Ty Simpson's numbers. It was five athletic freak shows and Mark Sanchez. Those are Cam Newton, Mike Vick, Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, Kyla Murray, and Mark Sanchez. You expand that list to just 600 or fewer career pass attempts and you add in some quarterbacks and they don't help as case. You add in Mac Jones. Okay, for a brief period that looked okay. And then wheels fell off.

Speaker 2:
[101:41] Trebisky.

Speaker 3:
[101:42] You add in Trebisky. You add in, yes, you add in Dwayne Haskins. You add in Akili Smith. You add in Carson Wentz and you add in Alex Smith. Now Alex Smith is probably your high water mark here. And that's not great. I mean, can't be as well. But like the physical freak people are on their own thing. The point is he's not a physical freak. So you can't use that part. Now you're looking at the people that are not physical freaks and that's not a good list to be on.

Speaker 2:
[102:07] I need to see the other side of it though because I don't even think.

Speaker 3:
[102:10] What other side?

Speaker 2:
[102:11] I mean, the hit rate on that is, you know, Kyler's still kind of a hit. I think Kyler's a hit.

Speaker 3:
[102:17] But the point is everybody on that list that has become good is an athletic freak.

Speaker 2:
[102:21] I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3:
[102:23] If you're on the list and you're not an athletic freak, Alex Smith is the best player there.

Speaker 2:
[102:28] And he was a runner in college.

Speaker 3:
[102:30] And he was average in the NFL.

Speaker 2:
[102:32] Yeah, he's a good, and he can run.

Speaker 3:
[102:33] So if that's your ceiling for a Ty Simpson.

Speaker 2:
[102:36] I got you. He's bucking the past first trend, basically.

Speaker 3:
[102:39] So it's like, if you have no experience and you're not an athletic freak show, you're battling some really bad odds.

Speaker 2:
[102:46] Look, it's what I love about the draft is every player's story is different. You try to use data, you try to use past precedent, you try to use projection. And Ty Simpson's story is unique. He has 15 starts, he's still 23, or he's already 23, only has 15 starts. The first eight games were incredible. The last half of the season was terrible. There's some Sam Darnold to that, right? The highs and lows. So there's a lot of, yeah, buts to his game. But now, but you also get, he's going to sit for a year or two.

Speaker 3:
[103:11] That's the thing. So how many of those guys, yeah, how many of those guys might have succeeded if they hadn't been thrown to the wolves immediately, right? Like all those guys started pretty much right away, right?

Speaker 2:
[103:23] Cam started right away.

Speaker 3:
[103:24] Mike Jones did, Keely Smith did. Again, forget the Athletic Freak shows. Alex Smith did, right?

Speaker 2:
[103:31] Sanchez did, right?

Speaker 3:
[103:31] Sanchez did, Trubisky did?

Speaker 2:
[103:34] No, Trubisky, well, week three.

Speaker 3:
[103:36] Mike Glennon for like three weeks, yeah. So all these guys started basically right away. So yeah, I mean, maybe that's the thing. Maybe that's the key to unlock this, is just don't start them right away.

Speaker 2:
[103:45] Aggressive move by the Los Angeles Rams. Appreciate everybody being up here. Give us a quick word to talk about our friends over at Root Insurance. Root Insurance believes that good drivers deserve better rates, so they've created a new kind of car insurance that rewards good drivers in an easy to use app. Traditional car insurance companies focus on demographics like age, zip code, occupation and credit score to price your coverage. But when Root offers a rate, your behavior behind the wheel gets more weight than any other single factor. They don't use occupation or education level to negatively affect your rate. While you drive, Root gathers and analyzes data from your smartphone sensors, and after a few weeks, you'll get a car insurance quote based primarily on your driving. You'll save up to 44% off your initial Root quote after you take the test drive. If you need a tow truck, jump start or lock your keys in the car, Root will cover the help you need to get back on the road when you opt into roadside assistance. The Root app makes it easy to edit your coverage, update your policy or file a claim in just three minutes. You get started today at root.com. Change back into our suits to get back to the draft. We're not only at pick 13. We have covered several picks in the 20s.

Speaker 3:
[104:48] We've had some bonus ones.

Speaker 2:
[104:49] We're going team by team more than pick by pick. But the picks, we're starting with that. OK, Vanga Ioane is the next pick at 14 for the Baltimore Ravens.

Speaker 3:
[105:00] Just a reminder to everybody, just hit Subscribe. We're at almost 80,000. But subscribe before we lose our minds.

Speaker 2:
[105:06] Shout out to everybody that's up here late with us. Hit Subscribe. Hit thumbs up. You just do all the stuff. Hit the hype buttons that they have now on the issue.

Speaker 3:
[105:14] I don't think you do that with the live ones.

Speaker 2:
[105:15] Not in live? OK, hype after.

Speaker 3:
[105:17] You should hype the Everybody's Favorite Prospect video. That would be a good hype.

Speaker 2:
[105:20] Yeah, hype the Prospect video. That was fun. All right, tomorrow night will be business cash, I would say. All right, pick 14. Baltimore Ravens go Ovenga Ioane. He'll be your plug and play starting guard for the Ravens. People mover up front.

Speaker 3:
[105:36] First kind of pure guard, I guess. That's another thing that makes the Kadyn Proctor pick interesting and maybe makes you question whether they're planning on keeping him a tackle. If Ioane was on the board, did they just see him as a better guard than Ioane? I wonder if Ioane was seen as a little bit overrated by the NFL. Everyone was talking about him as the best guard, one of the best players in the draft, but theoretically, multiple players that could easily be playing guard were taken ahead of him by the NFL. Maybe they're just a little bit lower on him than other people. But generally, monster people moving, road grading, just everything you want about a powerful offensive lineman, plug him onto that offensive line, like it.

Speaker 2:
[106:19] Yeah. I think he's incredibly strong, knows it, uses it. I think he uses it to get away with some okay footwork. I don't think Brandon Thorne had concerns about his footwork, maybe as much as I did, so take that for whatever it's worth. But I think he just, again, I mentioned on the live show, he reminds me of a corner that plays with, say, subpar technique and just gets away with it and says, I run four, three, let me play catch up. I feel like he just overpowers people at times and doesn't get his feet in position.

Speaker 3:
[106:46] His power is kind of crazy. People try and bull rush him and don't move him at all. You see sometimes a guy gets bull rushed, he sort of bounces back a couple and then throws the anchors on. Will Campbell does this a lot, right? It's like he just about throws on the anchors before the quarterback gets buried. People bull rush Ioane and he doesn't move. He just stands there and it's like they just bull rushed a wall.

Speaker 2:
[107:07] I'm trying to think now, I always love the division stuff, right? We just talked about Dexter Lawrence coming into the division and how maybe they don't have the best centers, but he's not always going to line up a nose tackle. If he goes up against Ioane, that's the type of player.

Speaker 3:
[107:19] Or he draws a lot of double teams.

Speaker 2:
[107:21] Yeah, so he'll see Dexter Lawrence a little bit. I do worry about him against quickness, three techniques. I think Basin Graham maybe could give him some problems in the division. So just the matchup thing I think is going to be important. I think he's better against power, maybe not as good against undersized or speed, but he can move people at the point of attack. And classic Raven, man, I think that'll help their run game.

Speaker 3:
[107:43] Well, the other interesting thing is, remember, the Ravens are switching offensive line blocking schemes. They bring in the guy whose name is a scheme.

Speaker 2:
[107:51] Quinn Ledford?

Speaker 3:
[107:51] Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2:
[107:53] Who only wants to run. Wide zone scheme, Koover, which doesn't necessarily fit.

Speaker 3:
[107:57] It's like they shipped out the guy that that would make sense for in Tyler Linderbaum. OK, I mean, it was a financial thing. But like Linderbaum has been kind of out of position or out of scheme. He's been in a power scheme, whereas I think he actually really fits that type of zone scheme. Meanwhile, Ioane, I think, probably fits more of a power scheme and he's being plugged into this new zone scheme. It's a little weird swappity-doo they've done there.

Speaker 2:
[108:21] All right, man, so we get the bucks up next at pick 15. Ruben Bain Jr. is the selection. He falls to 15. I don't think anybody expected him to fall this far.

Speaker 3:
[108:32] No, well, yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2:
[108:34] I will say this, the most recent mark drafts, our friend Ari Mayrov, I think you had him at 13 or 14.

Speaker 3:
[108:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[108:41] I think Peter Schrager had him in the 13, 14 range.

Speaker 3:
[108:45] He was getting to this area.

Speaker 2:
[108:46] There was some signal there in mocks. I didn't buy it. I buy everything. I didn't buy that. I still thought Kansas City would be interested or the Saints would be interested and they weren't. But I feel like the bucks once again, just get a really good football player with their pick. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[109:01] Look, I think the NFL, I think they over thought a few different players in this draft. I mean, maybe not the NFL, but like people generally, right? We talked about Caleb Downs already. Like, don't overthink it. Just drafted really good football player. I feel the same with Ruben Bain. Like you just you watch him play. He's the most dominant player on the field. He's wrecking people constantly. He's a constant problem against really good offensive linemen, against really good offensive lines. He's generally a wrecking crew against all these teams. Like just draft the guy. And what's the down... That's all on the positive side of the weighing scales. And on the negative side, he's got really short arms. You know, can we just assume that he's maybe an outlier and that this is still going to be true? Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2:
[109:48] So, incredible power. You add him to that defensive line. Yahya Diaby is there. Al-Kadim Mohammed comes in as a free agent. I think we knew that they need some pass rush help and they get a power player in Ruben Bain.

Speaker 3:
[110:03] Yeah. I don't think the weight thing did him any favors, by the way. When he showed up the combine at 6'2, 263, when he was supposed to be sort of 275, 280. Like if he just embraced being big and strong and powerful and said, look, I'm not going to work out. I'm not going to show you anything else, but I just destroy people, right? I think people would have embraced that more, been like, he's so powerful, he's so strong, look at him, he's huge. And then he shows up at 263, and it's like, I mean, he's even that big?

Speaker 2:
[110:29] I love that you mentioned David Walker's there too, as the sawed-off pass rusher. They've got a couple different types. Look, I think I compare Bain to a pitcher who throws below the hitting speed in baseball. Like if I was pitching in the big leagues right now, they'd be like, man, this is so slow, it's messing up our timing. There's something different about facing Bain. Facing shorter arms, but a power player and a power player who has the bend that he does. Doesn't have the get-off, but he's at the bend. It's just a unique combination that I think probably works in his favor. Again, I would love to have him or Chase Howell on these lines that have all these different body types. And I don't know if the Bucs.

Speaker 3:
[111:06] Caches Howell.

Speaker 2:
[111:07] The Bucs kinda have that. What did I say?

Speaker 3:
[111:10] Chase Howell.

Speaker 2:
[111:11] Dude. Yeah. Caches Howell.

Speaker 3:
[111:14] What was I gonna say? I think it's also a bit like Jared Vers. You know where, where the first, like, Teron Armstead who said this, like the first time that guy hits you, it's like it's different, right? He just, he's coming to the table with a different level of power. And I keep coming back to this. Lance Zerline had this, he tweeted it at me when this first came up months ago. He was like, he's simply too powerful to fail, right? Like it's sure, like again, we can debate the ceiling and how good he can become, but like he is too strong and powerful to not be a good player in the NFL. Like he, whatever he will be, he will be a productive, useful player on your pass rush rotation. I think that's what it comes down to. Like he's not just a power player and there's a space for that. Like he shows up with a level of violence that shocks people, and it does it repeatedly, time after time after time. And obviously, you're prepared for him. Like you know he's a powerful guy. You're not like surprised that that's what he's showing up with. But like the first time he hits you, it's like, dude, that's different. Like that, you can't prepare for that, right?

Speaker 2:
[112:13] He was the best player in college football for most of last season, maybe for the entire season. Unblockable, game wrecker. And him and Mesidor were a great combination. I think if you're a Bucs fan, you were getting Mesidor in a lot of mock drafts and Bain Falls. And I think Bain's a better player and better prospect. And so I think Bucs fans, once again, just like Emeka Ibuka and some of their other picks the last couple of years, just I don't think they were expecting this. No, I don't think they were expecting to have them. And they just jumped at the opportunity.

Speaker 3:
[112:45] It absolutely has the potential to be like a steal in this first round because he's so good.

Speaker 2:
[112:50] We talked about Kenyon Sadiq pick 16 for the Jets, pick 17s the Detroit Lions, they take Blake Miller. Just if you stitch all of our mock drafts together, I think we got this all right. We got him, we got Freeling, we got it all right. But Blake Miller, plug and play right tackle. That's what Mayock would say right here. Plug and play right tackle. Four-year starter, good player, solid and pass pro, solid run blocker, and he tested really well. He ticked a lot of boxes, and the Lions had a massive need to tackle, and that's how the board fell.

Speaker 3:
[113:21] I would love to know how much the fact that he played four years at right tackle, and Dan Campbell clearly wants to, as said, he wants to move Peneasool to left tackle. I really wonder how much of that was a factor.

Speaker 2:
[113:33] Well, I think in this draft, a lot of people still probably have, Spencer Fano is a right tackle, played right tackle, Kadyn Proctor looks like the old school prototypical right tackle, Blake Miller played right tackle, Max Iheanachor played right tackle, so most of the players that were going to be available there were right tackles. I think that was a part of, hey, we're going to move Peneasool to the left because most of the guys in the draft play on the right side and we'll just keep them there. But he could step right in as the right tackle. The more I watched Blake Miller, the more I liked them. I really thought at first I went from thinking I was going to see a second round pick, to saying, hey, I'd be happy with him in the late first. Would New England be interested? They ended up going to the different tackle. Would the Texans be interested? I thought those were going to be good fits. Then one of the mock drafts, I said, well, if my choice is Blake Miller, developmental Monroe Freeling, these other developmental tackles, I think Miller could be the second or third best tackle in this draft. I think that's a good move for the Lions here.

Speaker 3:
[114:29] Yeah, I really liked him. I think I ended up saying, I think I preferred him to Monroe Freeling. I preferred him to, certainly Kadyn Proctor at Tackle. But it's sort of unexciting. He's just good, right? Maybe he's not spectacular or anything, but a four-year starter at right tackle. He played almost 4,000 snaps in college at right tackle. Like 100 of his 3,800 snaps were at left tackle when somebody got injured, I think. Other than that, it's basically 3,800 snaps at right tackle. That's a lot of snaps. It's a lot of snaps. I mean, we're talking about these guys. Was it Amerius Mimms came into the NFL with 800 snaps or something to his name, right? This guy's played like 4 times.

Speaker 2:
[115:10] The next pick, Caleb Banks, is at 929.

Speaker 3:
[115:12] Yeah, like it's 3,800 snaps. It's a ton of experience. And he's got the size, he's got the athleticism, he's got the strength. Like he's just good consistently, good to not, not quite great, but really good.

Speaker 2:
[115:28] Yeah, and look, I think some of the other tackles might have higher theoretical upside because we've seen way more Blake Miller than we've seen of Monroe Freeling or Caleb Lomu, and they're younger in the whole thing, but I think you're getting a good dependable player here at 17. Reminds me a little bit of the Jack Campbell pick for the Lions at 18. You just plug him in, he's a good player and you're going to be happy with him.

Speaker 3:
[115:47] Right.

Speaker 2:
[115:47] All right, there's a lot of Vikings fans in the chat and they're upset.

Speaker 3:
[115:50] They're upset.

Speaker 2:
[115:51] They're upset?

Speaker 3:
[115:52] Why?

Speaker 2:
[115:52] Caleb Banks at 18.

Speaker 3:
[115:54] Just watch his highlight reel. Watch his highlight reel, you will immediately think this is the best player in the draft.

Speaker 2:
[116:00] Mentioned 929 snaps. Now, that's across five years. Part of it was injury. Yeah. Part of it was heavy defensive line rotation. Never played more than 420 or so snaps. The highlight reel is spectacular.

Speaker 3:
[116:13] It really is.

Speaker 2:
[116:13] From a pass rush perspective, you could see reps at the Senior Bowl where it's just instant wins at 6'5, 6'6, sorry, 3'27, with 35-inch arms. This is a built-in a lab defensive tackle.

Speaker 3:
[116:26] 86-inch wingspan at 7'2.

Speaker 2:
[116:29] 7'2. He's a 7'2, wingspan guy. So there's a lot to like about Caleb Banks. His wins are pure dominance.

Speaker 3:
[116:38] They're freakish, genuinely freakish.

Speaker 2:
[116:40] In the run game, he's taken 300-plus pounders, thrown them to the ground and making plays. Now his losses, there's a lot, the 6'6 defensive tackles through the years, way back to my Jags, Marcus Stroud, who was 6'6. You've got Javon Kinlaw at 6'6. The bad ones look...

Speaker 3:
[116:57] Kinlaw's 6'6?

Speaker 2:
[116:58] Yeah, he's up in that range.

Speaker 3:
[117:00] I didn't realize that.

Speaker 2:
[117:00] The pad level becomes an issue. So like Banks' bad reps are bad, right? They get under him and he gets moved at the point of attack. So there's some bad reps in there and he's only got the 900 snaps.

Speaker 3:
[117:09] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[117:12] And then you've got the injury piece, so your thoughts on Banks?

Speaker 3:
[117:15] Yeah, again, look, you put on his wins and it is, like they are preposterously good. Like he looks like, if you just watch his highlight reel, he looks like the best player in the draft. Like in this draft particularly, like you would be saying, look, there's no blue chip player. This guy looks like the blue chip player that isn't in this draft. If you just watch his wins, like they are absolutely ridiculous. The quickness that he has at 6'6, 330 is utterly nuts. Now the problems are, you know, he hasn't done it that consistently. As you said, the pad level gets too high. His play against the run has only ever been average at best. And then really the biggest red flag is, he's now had three separate instances of being injured in the same foot at 6'6, 330 pounds. When a 330 pound guy has been having problems with a foot, that's concerning. Now, working against that, his agent and his doctor say it's all fine. So, you know, all good.

Speaker 2:
[118:15] Chad's asking for his PVM score. So PVM is my descriptive college metric. My projection is draft score. And that's low. It's low for him. How low? He is, pull it up real quick, 34.

Speaker 3:
[118:31] How much of that is he basically missed all last year hurt?

Speaker 2:
[118:33] No, it's based off when he's on the field and over his entire career.

Speaker 3:
[118:38] But your thing doesn't like big chunks of missed time, right?

Speaker 2:
[118:41] No, it doesn't. Not necessarily. It doesn't matter. So I've got his only real plus year was 2024. We didn't see much of him last year. Mine's more rate-based and, you know, when he's on the field. So he's got some good pass rush production. The, again, I don't think the Florida scheme always put him in the best position to succeed. I think he took a little bit to get going. He's always had this high upside. He just hasn't always reached it. And I think from a run game perspective, again, like the wins are insane.

Speaker 3:
[119:09] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[119:10] But you also want to know why he didn't do it more often. And then there are losses there, too. Like there's both sides of it. Why didn't he dominate? He's got one of the lowest run stop percentages that you'll see in the draft. So he's the type of guy that should be shedding blocks and finishing plays, making plays up and down the line of scrimmage and be a pass rush disruptor. The other part that I thought was fascinating was, okay, Quazy's been fired here. And I'm not saying they're not using analytics or numbers or anything like that there, but this feels more like a scouting type of pick.

Speaker 3:
[119:45] Often, yeah, often when institutions fire something, you tend to see a severe overcorrection in the other direction.

Speaker 1:
[119:55] So if you were going, wow, the analytics guy didn't work out, let's go the other way. I mean, this is the type of player you would pick. Let's go get the freak show who hasn't had a great statistical profile.

Speaker 2:
[120:07] Yeah, and so for me, risk appetite wise, this type of player that has the injury history, the proverbial upside, I like to take this player if I've got four, if I'm the Jets, right, I have four picks.

Speaker 1:
[120:20] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[120:20] Like you want to hit every pick out of the park, but you can handle more risk.

Speaker 1:
[120:24] You feel better about it.

Speaker 2:
[120:25] And for the Vikings who have not had many picks the last few years, they haven't hit on many picks the last few years. You're not, every other teams just, yeah, just get the offensive linemen, get the dependable player, get the good football player. They're swinging for the fences here on a team that doesn't have a very young foundation based off draft picks the last couple of years. It's just an interesting dynamic.

Speaker 1:
[120:47] Yeah, I mean, I'll read you. I read two bits of The Beast from Dane Bruegler that sort of sum up the good and the bad. Overall, Banks has a rare combination of size, raw power and big man twitch, all of which lead to big time flashes and glimpses of his ceiling. Then he says, however, the absence of a healthy senior season complicates his projection, blah, blah, blah, blah. The really scary bit, though, is the foot stuff. Fractured 4th metatarsal and left foot, the night before... Oh, so hang on. No, hang on. Two bits. So injured his left foot during the 2025 spring practices and wore a boot for a few weeks. Foot then fully snapped during fall camp, which forced him to sit out the first two games of the 2025 season, returned for the LSU game, but re-aggravated the injury and needed surgery, returned for the final two games. And then he fractured his 4th metatarsal and his left foot. So that's now four straight injuries in the same foot. The night before the on-field testing at the NFL Combine, didn't realize it until midway through the on-field drills and underwent surgery March 2026, which has sidelined him until June.

Speaker 2:
[121:49] Big time froze.

Speaker 1:
[121:50] And this is despite his agent and doctor assuring you that all is fine in his foot.

Speaker 2:
[121:55] But before we found out-

Speaker 1:
[121:56] But that's now, that's four instances of the same foot.

Speaker 2:
[121:59] And that's why that's risky at 18?

Speaker 1:
[122:01] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[122:02] The whole profile, like the production profile is risky at 18, the injury risk is risky at 18.

Speaker 1:
[122:08] It's one of the biggest boom or bust swings in the first round.

Speaker 2:
[122:11] But I'll never forget, we were walking to our steak dinner at the Combine and I did a little live reaction because that workout was that good.

Speaker 1:
[122:17] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[122:18] And-

Speaker 1:
[122:18] With a broken foot.

Speaker 2:
[122:19] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[122:20] Right.

Speaker 2:
[122:21] So, Caleb Banks to the Vikings. Now you add him to Jalen Redmond who's been fantastic. And as you mentioned, maybe a lot of that scheme is, you know, tying up blockers for defensive tackles, freeing other people up. We'll see if he could become the freakish playmaker that he's capable of at 6'6, 3'30.

Speaker 1:
[122:36] I think that's just the best. I mean, it's the biggest, it's the biggest swing for the fans. It's the biggest boom robust pick in this first round, I think.

Speaker 2:
[122:44] Who am I praising? I'm not praising anything. I told you, the guy's at 34. I wouldn't draft him in the first round. I would take him if I had five picks in the top 50. He'd be one of my five, maybe, in the 40s. That's what I would do. I'm trying to tell you what the teams are thinking, not just what I would do here. I would do a lot of things differently. Carolina Panthers, up next, pick 19. They go Monroe Freeling, the left tackle out of Georgia. We thought this was a potential pairing here, too. They've got this left tackle question, Iki Iguanu, with a long-term injury. Rashid Walker comes in as a one-year stopgap, and Monroe Freeling is in this developmental tackle range, just a two-year starter at Georgia, with unbelievable size movement skills and upside.

Speaker 1:
[123:34] Yeah, I think another one of those, I think we had at some point, between our mock drafts, we had Blake Miller going to the Lions, and I think we had Monroe Freeling going to the Panthers at some point as well. It does make a ton of sense, right? I think they have, if there are people that like Monroe Freeling more than we do, right? The Tyses, Nate and Mike, they both love the guy, right? Other people as well, I mean, remember, he came out of the combine, and we were talking about this guy as a top 10 player, and maybe he could go to six or whatever, the Browns would take him. So the hype seemed to get out of control, and then apparently it'd cool down by draft time, but if he is as good as his supporters say he is, he could easily unseat Rashid Walker and start week one for the Carolina Panthers, right? Iki Ikwano was hurt, Rashid Walker is only on four million a year, so it's not like they're tied to him massively financially. Freeling could start day one and be, you know, an improvement on this line and be great. If, however, he needs a bit of development, and I think he does, his run blocking is average at best, I think honestly it's kind of a liability at this point. The pass protection is closer, but, you know, there's still some work to do there. If he needs some time, you've got Rashid Walker for a year, and, you know, maybe next year is when he takes over from Iki Ikwano and allows him to move on from him. So, I just think it's a great fit. It fits, it helps the Panthers, they might not need him right now, but they probably need him long term, and it also helps him because it is need to play week one.

Speaker 2:
[124:57] I got some similar feelings when I watched Freeling and then Caleb Lomu. I think when you see both players that have the frame and the movement skills, I mean, he explodes out of a stance when he's pulling or getting to the second level and ran under five flat, ran a 4-9-3 with the 35 inch arms, and we just built in a lab offensive tackle. But I think he just gets bull rushed and bullied a little bit, run game is inconsistent. But I look at core strength improvement, I think him and Caleb Lomu are so similar in that respect. I think that's what's really interesting about these tackle prospects. I think Freeling's a little ways away, Lomu's a little bit ways away, Blake Miller is more of a finished product, and you value different things depending on where you are with the team. And the Panthers are the right fit as you're laid out to maybe give them some time. The other tackles that we mentioned on the live show that come to mind, Nate Solder, 6'8, out of Colorado, he eased his way in with the Patriots. He did have Dante Scarnacchia, eased his way in with the Patriots, did a little swing tackle stuff early on, played some tight end, and then eventually became a dependable starter. Colton Miller, someone in the chat brought up when we were live, started slow in his career and then became one of the better left tackles. I think that's the type of path you're looking at with Freeling here.

Speaker 1:
[126:15] Yeah, and look, are you drafting for right now or are you drafting a guy for a year or two's time? Monroe Freeling is the guy that in two years time, if you told me he was the best tackle from this draft, I would have no trouble believing it. He's got that kind of talent. I just don't think he's there yet.

Speaker 2:
[126:30] And I love getting the other opinions as well, which was the Tyses saying top 10, absolute. They both love Fano too, but they loved the idea of Monroe Freeling being a top 10 caliber pick. Pick 20, so some drama here. This was fun. Dallas is at pick 20.

Speaker 1:
[126:48] It's when all the trades started.

Speaker 2:
[126:49] Yes, more trades. They trade down from 20 to 23. Eagles come up and they pick Makai Lemon, the USC wide receiver. We've been live. We've been working this entire time, but I saw some stuff pop up that apparently, when this happened, Makai Lemon was on the phone with the Pittsburgh Steelers. What's going on here?

Speaker 1:
[127:10] Yeah. Look, you speculated at the time. You're like, what are they jumping? They're jumping ahead of Pittsburgh. They could draft a wide receiver. They've got receiver needs. Well, apparently, they were on the phone with them, and they jumped ahead of Pittsburgh and snagged them.

Speaker 2:
[127:22] Yeah. I thought, so what's Pittsburgh even doing on the phone before? Like, hey, we're going to pick you in a pick. I hope you're still there.

Speaker 1:
[127:30] Yeah. I mean, people do that, right? You're up next. Like, we're about to pick you.

Speaker 2:
[127:34] I think you just make the call when you're there, like when you actually get the pick in, right? So the Eagles, I mean, maybe because they thought the Cowboys were on the clock, there's no way they're taking a wide receiver.

Speaker 1:
[127:45] Or they're not going to take Philadelphia.

Speaker 2:
[127:47] But Dallas was on the clock, and the Steelers might be saying, well, they're not going to take a receiver.

Speaker 1:
[127:51] Right.

Speaker 2:
[127:52] And then Philly, but Philly jumps them. So a lot of storylines here, obviously, in the division. You know, every time Makai Lemon makes a play, we have to say, how did the Cowboys let the Eagles get Makai Lemon? And look, he's a how he does it again player for me, man. He's a...

Speaker 1:
[128:10] I don't know. To me, this was more of a... So, you know, we get this whole pre-draft process, right? It's like, here's the guys are being talked up, here's where they are on the... And it's like, sometimes I feel like the NFL just sees guys slightly differently. And it's like, again, Makai Lemon, everyone kind of sees him the same. The only question is value. And everyone was sort of talking him up as a guy that should go in the top 10 and blah, blah, blah. It's like, to me, there were similar value propositions to Amika Ibuka from a year ago. It's like, he's a good, solid, dependable second tier receiver who can't play X, but has to... can do everything else, right? And last year, we sort of determined that that was worth pick number 20, pick number 21, something like that. Now, every draft is unique, but I didn't really understand why we were inflating that by like 10, you know, more, 10 or more picks to be like, Makai Lemon should go in the top 10 somewhere. I mean, this is where he belongs to me, is somewhere around 20.

Speaker 2:
[129:07] Yeah, I'm saying it's a how he does it again, because I think he just got a really good football player.

Speaker 1:
[129:11] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[129:11] I don't care where. I mean, the fact that, I mean, yeah, the Eagles weren't going to take him at 10 because they're not picking there. I think it's just another, they got a really good football player, just like getting Quinian Mitchell where they got him, just like getting Jalen Carter at nine. They just got a player.

Speaker 1:
[129:24] But unlike those guys.

Speaker 2:
[129:25] A really good football player.

Speaker 1:
[129:26] But unlike those guys.

Speaker 2:
[129:27] I value Makai Lemon and Emeka Abouka probably more than you.

Speaker 1:
[129:30] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[129:31] That was proven right last year.

Speaker 1:
[129:33] For about six weeks.

Speaker 2:
[129:35] Before the injury. Before the injury, Emeka Abouka was-

Speaker 1:
[129:40] Whose injury? Mike Evans.

Speaker 2:
[129:42] Abouka's injury. Before he got hurt, he was outstanding.

Speaker 1:
[129:45] I mean, he was outstanding and then he had to become-

Speaker 2:
[129:48] Then he was hurt. He got hurt, changed everything.

Speaker 1:
[129:53] I would argue that actually he found a level as the season wore on.

Speaker 2:
[129:59] We'll see what happens. I like Makai Lemon quite a bit.

Speaker 1:
[130:02] I like Makai Lemon a bit as quite a lot as well. I just think this is where those guys should go. What is interesting though is if the reports are true and the Eagles are moving on from AJ. Brown, that receiving course starts to look pretty interesting. You got Devontae Smith who as much as we've seen a lot of him in the NFL, I don't think we know what he is yet because he was drafted high, high first round draft pick, incredible right runner, incredible sideline work, incredible ball skills, but he's 160 something pounds. It's like, can that guy really play against elite number one press physical coverage in the NFL? He couldn't really early. Then they got AJ Brown, who's obviously 225 pounds and a monster. It's like, well, now he doesn't need to do that. Once you freed him from that, Devontae Smith looks fantastic. Now, did he develop that during the time AJ Brown was here, or does Devontae Smith still have problems with that stuff? If he does, now you've got Devontae Smith who may have problems with that. You've got Makai Lemon who may have problems with that. It's like, have you just lost the skill set that was able to deal with that? You've got this whole Jalen Hurts thing of, will he actually target the middle of the field? There was a disproportionate reliance on the ISO routes on the outside against aggressive press coverage to AJ Brown. You may have completely removed that from the entire offense and now he has to play the game a different way. It's a very interesting addition.

Speaker 2:
[131:29] The other piece that I brought up, so Lemon's skill set, we always talk about this Abouka, this spectrum of receivers who are inside outside and maybe you want to avoid press in the whole thing and Amon Ra comes up and a lot of people brought up Amon Ra in this whole thing.

Speaker 1:
[131:45] It is very different.

Speaker 2:
[131:46] But it's a spectrum of like, Amon Ra might be the best and Khalil Shakir is on this other end and Cooper Cup is at the high end and Emeka Abouka is in there and he's in that world. And I think he's gonna be really good and really productive. And he's a good route runner, tough as nails, tough at the catch point. The worst tape you'll see was the probably middle of the second quarter through the end of the Notre Dame game when he's going up head to head against Leonard Moore, who's talking about, you know, who's gonna be a top five player next year in the draft.

Speaker 1:
[132:19] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[132:20] And but then you have this idea of Jalen Hurts likes his AJ Brown types.

Speaker 1:
[132:25] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[132:26] He wants the big outside one on one ISO winner. And you've got new scheme. I think the Eagles are trying to get him to throw to the middle of the field more. No offensive coordinator has been able to do that. You're probably gonna lose AJ Brown. And Makai Lemon's just complete opposite skill set as AJ Brown. Like on paper, the fit's not great. On paper, the fit doesn't make sense. But then there's sometimes you're trying to, we used to joke about Derek Carr. Like when Derek Carr was not taking shots down the field, one way to fix that might be you just, if you draft Henry Ruggs in his 4-2 speed, you're making him take some shots down the field. Are we making Jalen Hurts work the middle of the field now? Are we gonna make him open up parts to his game that he hasn't been great at, that he hasn't been comfortable with? That's part of this storyline that I'm interested in. There's multi-layer story going on here. There's AJ Brown, there's the reporting behind AJ Brown, there's the trade with Dallas, and then there's Makai Lemon. It's a multi-layered story that I can't wait to watch unfold here.

Speaker 1:
[133:28] I really do like Lemon as a player. I just, I do, it's a very interesting fit with that Eagles dynamic now, particularly if they're shifting or moving away from, moving on from AJ Brown. But Lemon is a baller. Like he's tough as nails. He's a good player. He's a really good route runner. He consistently gets open. He consistently sells defensive backs on whatever it is he's trying to make happen. Yeah, he's going to be a really good player for them. I just wonder how that core works with Jalen Hurts and without AJ Brown.

Speaker 2:
[134:04] So I love that. I just love the story. Anytime you get the trade up move, it's in the division, it's with rivals. We'll keep a close eye on it. Steelers at 21. Perhaps we're going to trade Makai Lemon, so, or draft Makai Lemon. So keep an eye on that as well. They go Max Iheanachor, the offensive tackle out of Arizona State. More tackles coming off the board here. The reports recently that Broderick Jones is slow in his recovery, and Iheanachor, high upside right tackle, young at the position, moves extremely well. I think he's got some technique issues to maybe clean up, but pretty productive for a guy that, again, is still on the ascent here.

Speaker 1:
[134:41] Yeah, a raw player. Like, you know, has all the physical traits you want, but is pretty young to being a football player. Like, his early life sporting sport was soccer, but like under 13 type of thing when he was in Nigeria. Then he played basketball in high school, so he hasn't been playing football that long. But you can see the movement skills, and he's got the size, obviously. He was sort of late, like he's, I think he's been very raw, but then late on between the Texas Tech game against David Bailey, etc. and the Senior Bowl, I think you can see the development. And the Senior Bowl lost inside a few times, which is a little bit concerning. But I felt like he was my favorite project offensive tackle in this draft. Like I can just see him becoming a monster.

Speaker 2:
[135:27] Yeah, 652, 330, easy mover. It's now three tackles in four years that the Steelers have drafted between Broderick Jones and Troy.

Speaker 1:
[135:35] It never feels good, but ultimately when you miss, you can't just stop drafting.

Speaker 2:
[135:38] But this is...

Speaker 1:
[135:39] You gotta go back to the well.

Speaker 2:
[135:40] This is where you get your tackles. There were what, seven that went off the board here. This is where you have to draft them. They're very rare to sneak a second rounder in there. You get a couple here and there. Very rare to get it beyond third rounder later. Those are your developmental tackle types and a few of those hit here and there, but it's not as common. It's where you need to get them. And you've got a question about left tackle Broderick Jones. Fautano could always kick into guard. They just needed more flexibility on the offensive line. So, good pick for the Steelers here.

Speaker 1:
[136:10] Yeah. Again, he was the guy that was being talked about is, could he sneak into the first round, went a bit higher. But we made this point a couple of shows ago. Like, if anyone that could be at 30 could easily also be at 20. Like, you know, it's not that big of a jump to get a guy that's a fringe first rounder up to 20, 21, 22. Like, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[136:28] Yeah. And he's got, like I said, young at the position.

Speaker 1:
[136:31] Technically, it's a reach, but it's fine.

Speaker 2:
[136:32] Ran a 4.91, 34-inch arms. He's got the tools, the frame. He's shown improvement every year at offensive tackle. Sometimes that's, you know, what you just want to see on the ascent. Max Iheanachor. All right, who's next here? Pick 22. So the Chargers on the clock. We theorized, do they reach for a guard? Do they go grab a guard that's not expected to go this high? They do not. They go Akheem Mesidor, the edge rusher out of Miami, who goes just seven picks lower than Ruben Bain here. Honestly, I think Mesidor could have been the pick at 15 for the bucks if Bain wasn't there. But Mesidor, they add him to the mix. They got Khalil Mack coming back for one year. They got Tully Palotto. And add in another multi-gap winner here for the defensive front.

Speaker 1:
[137:17] Yeah, I really like Mesidor as a player. Again, his only knock really to me is he's 25. Or he's an older prospect. And that scares people because it scares people for reasonably good reasons. But I think this landscape that is changing or has changed in college football, I think we need to factor that in. Eric DeCosta was talking about this. We've gone from whatever it was, 4% to 18% of older prospects. And the point that he made at the back end of that that gets lost is we don't really know what that means yet. I think that's the thing with some of these guys. Generally, it's not going to be good. And that's another point that he made. It's not a good thing for these old guys. But that doesn't mean that there won't be a lot more of these older players that will become very good NFL players. Like, if you just showed somebody Mesidor's profile and said the guy's 22, he would be a top 10 player, I think. He's relentless, he's violent, he's productive, he can move around the defensive line like Bain. You can move him inside. Actually, a lot of his best plays came from the interior. He used to be a defensive tackle, a nose tackle, and some of his best stuff still comes inside where he's just too quick for guards. The only concern is the age thing. And I don't know that that's a problem. So it might be a steal.

Speaker 2:
[138:32] And I'll repeat myself for the millionth time. The age thing, why is it a concern? You have to understand what you've seen from a production standpoint, understand what you see from film when you're watching him, that he's a man amongst boys for the most part, age-wise. And then the second contract thing, the decline thing. Is he going to decline in year six? Is that when you start the age curve and everything? That stuff's valid. But it's both things. It's understanding how to quantify the production properly and adjust for age. And then, yeah, would you rather have a 26, 27-year-old on a second contract? Absolutely. I think the fit for the Chargers and the three-man edge group of Mack and Tullipoloto, Bud Dupree still there speaking of high-motor players. But Mesidor's ability, he fits in with Mack and Tullipoloto. He can add that interior pass rush. I think he's great at tracking down quarterbacks. I think he's athletic, in the pocket. I always think of Bo Nix and Patrick Mahomes, both guys in the division they have to deal with. He's going to be trying to sack Fernando Mendoza in the division as well.

Speaker 1:
[139:45] To me, I don't really care about the contract stuff. To me, the only question is, because he was 24, he is 25 now, because he was 24, was he just wrecking shop against 18-year-olds being 24? Right now, the one thing I haven't seen anybody do, actually, is get that granular and literally play by play. What is the average age of the people he whooped up on? Did he just beat a bunch of 18-year-olds, or did he actually play a bunch of 23-year-olds, and it's fine?

Speaker 2:
[140:13] It's not about that necessarily. It's just, again, baseball cop, because in baseball, there's six layers of the minors. When you're a 23-year-old at a lower level, you just adjust. It's like, well, this level usually has 20-year-olds. Or when you're 18 in AA, it's like, well, you're playing against 24-year-olds on average. It's just a general age adjustment if you're looking at production.

Speaker 1:
[140:35] Yeah, I know, but we have the ability to actually go and check if that's a thing. One of the reasons breakout age or whatever is important is because it's basically a proxy for do you have talent, right? But when you've got a guy like Mesidor who started off as a nose tackle, has moved to an edge, like he's undergone a wild transition of what he was supposed to be as a player.

Speaker 2:
[140:57] Reasons.

Speaker 1:
[140:58] Yeah, you can explain why you didn't break out when you were 18, right? But then the question becomes, I think it's entirely plausible that a 24-year-old just happens to face a slew of 18-year-old freshmen left tackles, right? And destroys them all. And like, well, that's warped because you're going to go into the NFL facing a bunch of 29-year-old monsters and you're not going to do that anymore. But we actually have the ability to check that kind of thing. I just don't know that anybody has.

Speaker 2:
[141:25] All right, man. Mesidor to the Chargers. We talked about Malachi Lawrence and the Cowboys at 23. We talked about KC Concepcion at 24 to the Browns. The Bears had picked 25. They did go safety. We mocked the safety to them a bunch, but not Dillon Thieneman. That dude was going to the Vikings at 18 in every single mock. But he's a Bear staying in the NFC North like he was already a Viking. Thieneman, man, they added some athleticism to the back end here for the Bears. Their safety overhaul this off season is complete.

Speaker 1:
[141:55] It's complete. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's a weird one because Thieneman was so locked in as the Vikings pick for like every mock draft. Rarely did anybody have to entertain the idea that that might not be the pick. And what happens if he goes somewhere else? It is interesting that they just sort of shipped off two safeties and brought in two safeties. Particularly when they were good. It's not like, oh, these are two problem spots we need to upgrade. Like they had two good safeties.

Speaker 2:
[142:20] Kobe Bryant comes in from the Seahawks. Thieneman comes in.

Speaker 1:
[142:23] Bayard at least is old so you can understand that one. But like, J'Kwon Briskir was a really good player for them. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[142:30] Maybe the injury stuff.

Speaker 1:
[142:31] But anyway, they brought in Kobe Bryant, good player. And then Dillon Thieneman who's got that incredible range, incredible side-to-side ability to play deep and really let everybody else in that secondary go to town.

Speaker 2:
[142:42] Yeah, he's, like I said a few times now, I don't love him one-on-one. I think he reads quarterbacks better than he reads receivers, right? He can be torched one-on-one, but his eyes on the quarterback playing zone.

Speaker 1:
[142:54] Perfect for that deep lying safety where you just let him use his range, play zone, keep the top on the defense.

Speaker 2:
[143:00] And I've talked about safeties, like running in the 4-3s doesn't matter a ton, but when you're a good football player and you run in the 4-3s, I think it's just an added bonus, right? His eyes are good. He gets in the right position, and then he is just a bullet, just a missile at the catch point making place, both short zone, deep zone. So I think he adds a lot of versatility to the secondary. He's got great tackle range. I don't think you're going to put him in the box and say, hey, go be the cleanup guy here, but I think tackle range and everything that he does, just a good football player. That Purdue team a couple of years ago had some playmakers, man. Him and Max Clair and Marcus Bowe, they had some good draft picks. A couple of them transferred, obviously, but Thieneman was one of those guys, and he really elevated that Oregon defense.

Speaker 1:
[143:41] He's the natural Bayard replacement. I mean, if you are trying to get younger, he's that style of player.

Speaker 2:
[143:47] Next pick, so more movement here. Buffalo starts one of three trades down. So Buffalo is the pick at 26. They move to 28 temporarily, and the Houston Texans come up, and they select Keylan Rutledge. Now, he is a guard.

Speaker 1:
[144:04] Nominally.

Speaker 2:
[144:05] By name. Where's our chat? Nomad Scott.

Speaker 1:
[144:10] Nomad Scott says, for the Texans, it's likely that Rutledge competes at center. He took snaps at the Senior Bowl, and Bruegler said some teams see him as a center day one.

Speaker 2:
[144:19] Saved me from your victory lapping them taking a guard here because of Wyatt Teller and Ed Ingram already being in the building. This I could kind of see either way. I mean, Rutledge, I could see him at guard.

Speaker 1:
[144:32] We also have Jake Andrews at center. I mean, either way, they're replacing somebody in that line.

Speaker 2:
[144:36] They are. They are. But I mean, we've known that they've needed offensive line help for the last couple of years. They made some moves this offseason. They're continuing that. Rutledge is the guy, like when you talk to people and talk to teams, good player, ascending player, tough, stout, but just a dog, want them in the room type of guy.

Speaker 1:
[144:53] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[144:54] And knowing the way, you know, D'Amico Ryan builds that team, it just feels like a D'Amico type of pick here.

Speaker 1:
[145:00] Sure. Yeah. I mean, so interestingly, you know, one of our bets was some guy saying that there will be a reach of 32 spots effectively on the consensus board. Depending on the consensus board you use, Rutledge is a reach of 32 spots on the consensus board, which makes him the biggest reach in this first round.

Speaker 2:
[145:24] Who was that? Harry Teddy that did it?

Speaker 1:
[145:26] I don't remember who it was.

Speaker 2:
[145:27] But he came into the chat earlier today and conceded-

Speaker 1:
[145:31] Oh, did he?

Speaker 2:
[145:32] He conceded that he lost because he was looking at the-

Speaker 1:
[145:34] A different board.

Speaker 2:
[145:35] At the board we were looking at, but someone else-

Speaker 1:
[145:37] A Reefs board says-

Speaker 2:
[145:38] Someone else tagged us and said, A Reefs board's got this. Oh, Sean Newkirk.

Speaker 1:
[145:43] Yeah. So technically, depending on the board you're using, he is a reach of at least a basic round.

Speaker 2:
[145:49] We'll acknowledge that. We'll-

Speaker 1:
[145:50] A full round.

Speaker 2:
[145:51] Merch is heading out for that one.

Speaker 1:
[145:52] But basically, the biggest reach in the first round, according to the A Reefs consensus board and blah, blah, blah. However, a guy whose name was popping up a lot in terms of, could be a first round player. So maybe the consensus board was simply slow on adjusting to a thing that was pretty common.

Speaker 2:
[146:10] So here's another guy, he's pretty athletic. I think he's super stout, he doesn't give up a lot of ground. It's another pad level type of question. He feels a little top heavy or a little strange body type. I think defensive tackles can get under him a little bit. He's a little high when he's a polar, so he'll get popped a little bit. So I think there's some technique questions. His best season was his last year, another guy that's been on the ascent. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's not good that you don't have the full body of work. So good, solid player, I thought he was going to go early round two, and the Texans get him round one. And if he is going to move to center, that's a good size center, and I think he could do a pretty good job there.

Speaker 1:
[146:50] Yeah, it's interesting to project. I mean, round one centers are not the most common thing in the world to begin with. And then when you're projecting a guy to move position to go into center, it's just an interesting call, particularly when you're drafting a guy, theoretically a reach relative to the consensus board by up to a round. It's an interesting move across the board for the Texans, like identifying him as the center, if indeed that's what's happening, drafting him this high as a center and then potentially reaching by a full round relative to the consensus board.

Speaker 2:
[147:22] Trading up to get them.

Speaker 1:
[147:23] And trading up to get them.

Speaker 2:
[147:24] The Niners have a guard need, and I think they're trying to, I wasn't catching it at the time, but they were leapfrogging the Niners. They get them, and then the Niners with the next pick trade out, and so they move from 27 down to 30 and eventually out of the first round. So Rutledge goes at 26, that was Buffalo trading down. At 27, we already talked about Chris Johnson, Miami traded up to get him, Niners moved down, and eventually out of the first round. And then the next pick was the Buffalo Bills. They trade down once again, this time in the division. How did the Bills let the Patriots get? Caleb Lomu, Utah left tackle.

Speaker 1:
[148:02] Well the good thing is, this is different to at least they weren't planning on drafting a tackle necessarily.

Speaker 2:
[148:07] They don't need a tackle.

Speaker 1:
[148:08] But it is interesting for the Patriots with all this Will Campbell discourse since the Super Bowl that they draft a potentially developmental offensive tackle. Now look, they've got the great Morgan Moses reaching 187 years old on the other side of the line. So that's probably the more natural spot for Caleb Lomu to eventually take over. But it does mean, if we roll with this Will Campbell thing again and he struggles, you have another option.

Speaker 2:
[148:33] Yeah, you got some flexibility. Lomu was my favorite developmental tackle in the draft. I'm calling him developmental because he's just a redshirt sophomore. So he's a young player, just two years starting, 6'6, 308, great movement skills, 4'99, 40, and fast 10-yard dash and good, just moves really well. He's got some losses. I mentioned Will Campbell in my notes. He's got some losses like Will Campbell had in college that are ugly, that if you are not loving the player, you'd say, look at these, these are the concerns. There's some ugly plays, but I think they're fixable. I think his ugly plays are fixable. I think they're technique issues. I think he's athletic enough to just get to his landmarks and play with some patience and he just doesn't always do it. So I think there's a lot to like about Caleb Lomu. I saw somebody already talk about position flexibility for him. I feel like he's just a tackle. I also think Campbell's going to be a tackle. So I think New England, especially like if they turn around to go get AJ Brown and that doesn't become this massive need that they have to fit, AJ Brown comes in, there's your short term play, Lomu's a long term play, tackle insurance, maybe the eventual right tackle to replace Morgan Moses. Maybe he can move around a little bit, but I don't think so. And the other part is, Vrabel said, Will Campbell stay in at left tackle.

Speaker 1:
[149:54] Well, because they already signed the guard. They signed Elijah Vera Tucker. Now he's got an injury history to him. And maybe that's, you know, but like, now they have Micah Wenu at one side, Elijah Vera Tucker on the other side. They've already moved Jared Wilson into center with that.

Speaker 2:
[150:07] Right, I think they're in a good spot.

Speaker 1:
[150:08] So they don't really have the spot for the guard, right? Like if kicking Will Campbell into guard, that would have to unseat one of those guys who are good guards already. It's not as easy as that, right? Like you would, I mean, there's no spot for him anymore.

Speaker 2:
[150:22] The center would be the only other spot, but Jared Wilson is a natural center, and I think he's going to be fine there. So look, I think it's okay to think long term. I think it's okay to say he's our starter at right tackle next year. We're assuming Will Campbell is going to continue to progress and not play injured in the whole deal. So it's more of a long term play for the New England Patriots here.

Speaker 1:
[150:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[150:41] We already talked about Peter Woods at 29 for the Chiefs. We already talked about Omar Cooper Jr at 30 for the Jets. We already talked about Keldric Faulk.

Speaker 1:
[150:51] Beautiful.

Speaker 2:
[150:52] At 31 for the Titans and at 1:39 a.m. Eastern time, we are to the last pick of the draft again.

Speaker 1:
[150:59] So soon.

Speaker 2:
[150:59] Jadarian Price, the running back out of Notre Dame to the Seattle Seahawks. They're going to use one of their four picks. Maybe they'll end up with more here. Plug and play, starting running back here to replace Ken Walker, Super Bowl MVP.

Speaker 1:
[151:10] Yeah. A thing that had come up a lot in mock drafts and I didn't think it would happen. I was surprised that this was a move they made. In part, because they had openly been saying they were trying to trade out of this pick. From before the draft, John Schneider was like, yes, we would love to trade out of the first round. Because coming into this draft, they had the fewest draft picks of any team in the NFL. They had just four draft picks. This obviously being one of them, it would make a ton of sense for them to trade out and add more draft picks. And if you were going to address running back, do it later on. Problem is, if nobody was willing to do that, if you were stuck at pick number 32, and you did only have four draft picks, and you had this acute need of running back, because you let Ken Walker leave and Zach Charbonneau is hurt in a significant way, you kind of had to just draft the player. And so I guess they just bit the bullet and said, look, we need a running back. We can't guarantee the price will be there at the bottom of the second round. So we just have to take him.

Speaker 2:
[152:12] 4.2 yards after contact per carry in his career. Pretty good explosive play rate. I mean, he just ran a 4-4-9, but found big plays. I thought he did a really nice job. Get into his second gear, creating big plays. Tough to tackle, tough body type to tackle. Doesn't have a ton of experience in the pass game. Similar to Kenneth Walker, really, through that regard. They didn't use Walker a ton as a pass catcher. Price doesn't have a ton of catches, ton of pass pro reps. But he was a part-time player. I mean, he was a complimentary player to Jeremiyah Love. And Notre Dame sets a record first time ever. The same school has the top two running backs off the board in an NFL draft.

Speaker 1:
[152:49] Yeah. Yeah, pretty fascinating dynamic. I mean, I think he's a good player. I like him overall. I think he's got some juice. He's extremely powerful for his size. He's got that breakaway ability. I think it's a good addition. It's just, I don't think that's what the Seahawks wanted to have to do.

Speaker 2:
[153:06] He's got good, he's got some free contact balance plays in there as well. And he's always moving forward, some kick return ability. Saw 33rd Team had Robert Smith do a nice breakdown on both Jeremiyah Love and Jadarian Price, and Jadarian Price, and the differences between the two. He was good enough to keep Jeremiyah Love off the field a little bit, right? For Notre Dame to not say, you're a complete workhorse because you're Jeremiyah Love.

Speaker 1:
[153:32] You're never coming off the field.

Speaker 2:
[153:33] You're your top three pick. We knew you were going top three. That says a lot about Price just stealing a little bit of production away from Jeremiyah Love.

Speaker 1:
[153:41] The amount that Boise State ran Ashton Gentey into the absolute dirt because he was Ashton Gentey, right? Notre Dame didn't do that. They were at least happy to have him on the field more.

Speaker 2:
[153:51] The other piece here, there's only like five running backs on my top 50 consensus board. So you go back to Seattle and the acute need and sometimes you just have to fill that spot or you're going to go all journeyman route at running back and I think still get by, but I think they want to be a little bit better than that as they're trying to repeat next year.

Speaker 1:
[154:10] This is the thing, I think again, relative to the consensus board, this is a fairly significant reach, but I'm sure they said it. They would have loved to have traded out of the first round, but if nobody's willing to give you the deal and you're left here, well, we've got four draft picks, we need a running back and the next time we come up is like the bottom of the second round, we might just have to take them.

Speaker 2:
[154:31] All right, man, that's it. We went through every pick twice.

Speaker 1:
[154:33] Yeah, it was fun. So if we pull up this graphic, we can see the biggest reaches and steals relative to the consensus board, if we get that on the screen. Basically, the biggest reaches, according to this, Price, who we just talked about, Keylan Rutledge, by far the biggest one, that's the one that's like a full round, Malachi Lawrence, Ty Simpson, and then Caleb Banks, Blake Miller, Max Iheanachor are classified as reaches, those are certainly Miller and Iheanachor are smaller. And then the Steel side of things, Keldric Faulk, who again, a lot of people thought was going to go extremely high, Dillon Thieneman, to the Bears, Makai Lemon, your guy for the Eagles, Ruben Bain, going to the Bucks, sliding as low as 15, when people assumed he was a top 10 guy, Caleb Downs, relative to the consensus board that still had him ranked extremely high. And then everything else, I think is small enough to fit within the margins.

Speaker 2:
[155:31] I like it. I think quarterback, Simpson, quarterback is always a unique case, so I don't care about that as much. Banks is going to be, I think Banks is the most volatile pick.

Speaker 1:
[155:39] Yeah. Again, I think that's the biggest boomer bus pick in the first round.

Speaker 2:
[155:43] You could say Malachi Lawrence too. And I think depending on which consensus board you're using, I don't know if people caught up to the Malachi Lawrence hype as much. And I don't know if that's the right indication of the market for him. But even him, same thing as Banks played 900 snaps, he played 1300, they're toolsy type of guys, they're going to be more boomer bust, I think, inherently.

Speaker 1:
[156:04] Yeah, I think both Lawrence and Rutledge were moving up the consensus board. And it was maybe just a little bit behind. Because neither of those guys being in the first round was a wild shock. Maybe a little bit high for Lawrence at 23, as opposed to 29 or whatever. But if I told you yesterday that both those guys would be in the first round, it wouldn't have blown your mind.

Speaker 2:
[156:28] Players still remaining who are interesting. Kadyn McDonald, the nose tackleer of Ohio State. We had him going late first quite a bit. Oh, Ari's got a list. Let's just read Ari's list. So we still don't know about Jermod McCoy.

Speaker 1:
[156:39] Well, he's the classic guy that's fallen presumably because of the injury.

Speaker 2:
[156:43] If the knee is that bad, I don't know if it's a fall to the mid-second like Will Johnson, or if this is like, hey, we got to wait till round three. So that'll be a story for tomorrow night. Wide receiver Denzel Boston falls out of the first. Buffalo passed on him three times, just saying. But I think Boston's interesting. Emmanuel McNeil Warren, the safety out of Toledo.

Speaker 1:
[157:01] That's a surprising one. He was being talked about as a mid-first round pick, a guy that's, Renner loves him. I think he was Renner's favorite prospect in that favorite prospect video. He felt like a lock and then he's fallen out of the first round.

Speaker 2:
[157:15] Just a couple other names, the guard run, Chase Passantis, Emmanuel Pregnan, the couple corners, Colton Hood, Avion Terrell. Terrell is going to be interesting because he ran the 4-6-4. And we don't know if that was real. Kristen Miller, the defensive tackle out of Georgia, Jacob Rodriguez. We've been keeping tabs on D'Angelo Pons. We've been saying a bunch as well.

Speaker 1:
[157:34] TJ Parker, the Clemson defensive end did fall out of the first round. And then Cassius Howell, the Texas A&M defensive end with the preposterously short arms fell out of the first round.

Speaker 2:
[157:44] So I think a lot of these names, look, it happens every year, right? We have some expected names. I think a big chunk of these names come off early tomorrow night. Makai could fall forever. And a couple of players you'll just be wrong on. It's like, man, the NFL just doesn't value these players nearly as much. But we'll be keeping an eye on all of them. The tackle run did come true. There were seven offensive tackles and two guards. Maybe a guard in the center, actually, with Ioane. Whatever, Keylan Rutledge. Maybe they're all guards. Who knows? But seven in tackles and name only, perhaps, all drafted.

Speaker 1:
[158:20] Tynos? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[158:23] Tynos, I guess, is a new fantasy, tight-ended name only, is a new fantasy term the last couple of years.

Speaker 1:
[158:29] Well, that has to be a, that's a T-E in name.

Speaker 2:
[158:32] But you still pronounce it the same way. E-I, E-I is a-

Speaker 1:
[158:35] Teno. But tackle is-

Speaker 2:
[158:37] Teno?

Speaker 1:
[158:37] Yeah, Teno versus Teno.

Speaker 2:
[158:39] Tackle in name only. Like Proctor. Anything else for the viewers here? Can you people go to sleep? You're still watching us here at 1:47 a.m. Eastern time? Yeah. Appreciate everybody. I appreciate everybody being here with us.

Speaker 1:
[158:53] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[158:54] First time in the studio, doing it live in round one. We're gonna do it all again tomorrow night.

Speaker 1:
[158:58] Yep, in a slightly, slightly less-

Speaker 2:
[159:00] More comfortable.

Speaker 1:
[159:01] Yeah, slightly less formal outfit.

Speaker 2:
[159:03] We'll be more comfortable tomorrow night. We appreciate everybody. Please subscribe if you haven't. Hit the thumbs up, check out the memberships. Do all the stuff, promote all the stuff, help us out. But really just appreciate everybody for joining us live. There's a lot of streams. There's a lot of post-game streams.

Speaker 1:
[159:21] There's a lot of people going live throughout the draft. So absolutely, we thank you for your viewership, your listenership, if you're listening to this on Audio Land. And yeah, any way you can subscribe and subscribe to the show is appreciated, absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[159:35] So tomorrow night will probably be about 15 minutes early instead of 30 minutes early. Draft starts at 7, go live around 6.45. So join us live tomorrow night. We'll do the same thing. We'll get our Day 2 Winners and Losers right after the stream. Let's get some sleep. Thanks to everybody for tuning in. See you again tomorrow night. Draft 2, Round 2. Night 2.