transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
[01:44] What is going on, True Crime fans? I'm your host, Heath.

Speaker 2:
[01:47] And I'm your host, Daphne.

Speaker 4:
[01:48] And you're listening to Going West.

Speaker 5:
[01:51] Hello, everybody. So a few weeks ago, oh, first of all, I hope you're doing well. Second of all. Whoa! They're jumping in. A few weeks ago, I was watching the amazing Oscar-nominated film, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. I have this really weird habit where if I love a movie, I'll put it on, and then I'll watch it for like a few days in a row.

Speaker 4:
[02:10] Because you just can't finish it or what?

Speaker 5:
[02:11] No, because I just wanna see it again. I'm like, wow, that was good. Let's roll the tapes.

Speaker 4:
[02:16] Roller again.

Speaker 5:
[02:17] But like every December, I watch Home Alone 2 all day, every single day. I'm not even kidding. Heath can attest.

Speaker 4:
[02:24] Oh, yes. I do know about this, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[02:26] But I was watching Three Billboards and I hadn't seen it in years. And I was like, God, this movie is so good. Wait, isn't this based on a true story?

Speaker 4:
[02:34] And it is.

Speaker 5:
[02:34] And it is. And then I was looking into it. And then I realized that it was already on our list because Rhiannon recommended it. So thank you, Rhiannon.

Speaker 4:
[02:43] Yes, thank you, Rhiannon. Today's story definitely needs more attention. I feel like it's one that kind of everybody knows what happened here, but there just doesn't seem to be justice quite yet.

Speaker 5:
[02:56] Those billboards got it a lot of attention. I think you guys are going to be really fascinated by that angle of it, but clearly not enough. Obviously enough for it to inspire a movie, but not enough for this to be like a household name type of case.

Speaker 4:
[03:09] Yeah, I think you guys are definitely going to be frustrated by this one. Well, so without further ado, this is episode 602 of Going West, so let's get into it.

Speaker 5:
[04:08] In May of 1991, a 34-year-old woman was found dead inside her car after it appeared to have veered into a ditch in her small Texas town. But investigators quickly zeroed in on a person of interest, believing she was murdered. With an arrest lagging and her family wondering if police corruption was involved, her dad put up multiple pointed billboards that would go on to inspire an Oscar-winning movie. This is The Murderer of Kathy Page. Lucille Fulton, who went by Kathy, was born on January 8th, 1957 in Hollanddale, Mississippi. She was born into a large family and grew up with parents Dorothy and James and alongside five siblings, three sisters named Jan, Diane, and Sherry, and brothers James and Joey. Kathy was described as loving, happy, and positive. And in the words of her sister Sherry, quote, she never had anything bad to say about anyone. Now, although they did spend some time in Mississippi, the Fulton family relocated to Vidor, Texas, when Kathy was still in school. And that is where the rest of her life was spent. That's where today's story takes place. At 21 years old, Kathy married her boyfriend, Steve Page. And thus, of course, she became Kathy Page on November 18th, 1978. But this marriage had been a little bit hasty because Kathy found out that she was pregnant. So in 1979, months after they wed, they had a daughter named Erin. And four years later in 1983, they welcomed a second daughter that they named Monica. But unfortunately, Kathy and Steve's marriage never went to high places. They never seem to truly have what they wish to have with each other because they had rushed this marriage, because they felt it was the right thing to do after Kathy got pregnant, right? And according to Kathy, Steve seemed pretty hard to love because he was jealous and possessive and frequently pressured Kathy for sex. At the time of her death, 34-year-old Kathy was waiting tables at a local German restaurant called Hoffbrau in Beaumont, Texas. This is only a 10- or 15-minute drive from her house in Vidor. And so you know, Vidor's population at the time was only around 10,000, and Beaumont had 115,000, so she lived just outside a middish-sized city. And there, at the German restaurant, she was loved by her regulars and co-workers alike, and she's remembered as kind, friendly, and dependable. Now at this point in 1991, she and Steve had been married for nearly 13 years. They were feeling the strain of over a decade and a somewhat loveless marriage that involves a controlling husband.

Speaker 4:
[07:42] Yeah, I'd say it was fairly loveless.

Speaker 5:
[07:45] Yeah, it feels like, honestly, probably the entire marriage or most of it, she was just like, what am I doing here?

Speaker 4:
[07:52] Yeah, I think they both, I feel like they both kind of felt similar, but maybe Kathy more so.

Speaker 5:
[07:58] Yeah, it wasn't to fit.

Speaker 4:
[08:00] It just wasn't working out.

Speaker 5:
[08:01] Shouldn't have happened, but again, they felt this pressure to get married and to make this family work, which is why they had two daughters.

Speaker 4:
[08:08] Kind of stay together for the kids type of thing.

Speaker 5:
[08:10] Exactly. But Steve placed the blame on his wife for not knowing what she wanted out of her life. Later saying, quote, mainly she was uncomfortable with who she was, or at least that was what she explained to me, that she didn't know who she was. She wanted to try to find out who Kathy was, because of that, we talked about separating for a short period of time and allowing her to hopefully find herself. But her sister Sherry maintained that it was not as mutual as Steve makes it sound and that Kathy was ready to divorce Steve and start seeing other people. She was not like, I need to find myself and I'll be back like, she's like, I need to find someone else. Yeah, exactly. Sherry also explained, quote, Kathy was definitely moving on in her life at that point because the decision was made for the divorce and that in itself was a relief off her back. She was making plans for that.

Speaker 4:
[09:10] Well, by May of 1991, Steve had been sleeping on the couch for a while at this point. According to Sherry, Kathy had actually wanted to get out of their marriage for years by that point. A co-worker of Kathy's remembered that they would often get into these raucous shouting matches that would turn into violent fights. And this sometimes left behind lacerations and bruises on Kathy that others at her restaurant would notice. So people were aware of their problems, like a neighbor even recalled seeing her have a black eye in the days prior to her murder. Kathy confided in a co-worker friend that Steve would constantly demand sex from her and he would use her for it whether she wanted it or not. But still, he didn't want to grant her a divorce, claiming that he just couldn't stand to see her with another man. Now, in an effort to gain more independence from her husband, Kathy was taking classes to earn her real estate license to better provide for herself and her daughters on her own, who were 12 and 7 at this time. So she's already taking the steps to leave. Now, the night of Kathy's murder was actually the first night that Steve was supposed to spend in this new apartment of his that he rented, in order to give Kathy the space that she desired.

Speaker 5:
[10:25] Yeah, they are splitting up.

Speaker 4:
[10:27] Yes. I mean, yeah, he's already getting into a new apartment. You know, she's making plans for her future.

Speaker 5:
[10:33] But it's very clear that he doesn't want to do this. He doesn't want to move on. He doesn't want her to be with somebody else, even though, like you said, he doesn't really want to be with her. But it's almost like this failure. Oh, well, she has to want me. So this has to work. It's like, no, let it go, drop the pride. But that's his control.

Speaker 4:
[10:52] But unfortunately, this would actually never come to fruition, like him moving into this apartment and their separation. Because on the evening of Monday, May 13, 1991, Kathy and Steve attended the girls' baseball games together. Now, the final game ended at 9 p.m. that night, and they returned home between 9 and 10 p.m. Steve says that he left home at 10 30 p.m., or he left the home at 10 30 p.m., bound for his new apartment. But that Kathy called him shortly thereafter, calling him back to their home, in order to stay with the girls so that she could head out for a drink with her work friend, this woman named Charlotte Morgan. So, Steve actually agreed to do this.

Speaker 5:
[11:41] Yeah, he's like, I'll watch the kids, you can go get a drink with your friend, or so he thinks. Now, Steve arrived back at their house between 1115 and 1130 p.m. to allow Kathy to leave, claiming that she was headed for Beaumont, which again is about 15 minutes southwest of Vidor. Steve then says that he went to bed in their house, not the new apartment, as he claims he was watching the girls, he's waiting for her to come home, for Kathy to come home, where he remained at their house until the early morning hours, when he was surprised to find the police knocking at his door. But unbeknownst to Steve or so he says, 34-year-old Kathy was actually heading out to meet up with her new boyfriend, not her friend and coworker Charlotte. She had met this new boyfriend at work at the restaurant when he came in for dinner while staying at the hotel across the street. Kathy had been a server. They hit it off and they met up later that same night. She confided in this man that she was separated from her husband, that he had been staying on the couch in their home, and that she had been unhappy for a long time. So she's being open and honest saying, I am still married, but we're separating. And when this man came back in the town a few months later, he went into the Hofbrau to see Kathy. But she wasn't working that night, so her coworker actually called her, and he and Kathy agreed to meet at his hotel later that night, which was on the evening of May 13th, 1991, the night Kathy died. He says that it took Kathy about an hour and a half to get to him because she needed to secure childcare, of course, and Steve, and to get ready for the night. She eventually arrived at his hotel, which was at a Best Western, just after midnight. And he recalled that she was, quote, all dolled up. Her hair and makeup was done. She was decked out in her nice jewelry. And that night, because they had such a great time together, they actually made plans to meet in between them next time, which would be Houston, that's like an hour and a half drive for Kathy, in the next two or three weeks. And she told him that she was going to bring her daughters and introduce them to him because she really seemed to like this guy. Then she left the hotel around 2:30 a.m. heading home. This is now May 14th, very, very early morning hours.

Speaker 4:
[14:19] But less than two hours later, Kathy was found deceased, shocking everybody who knew and loved her, including her new boyfriend and supposedly her husband. Kathy's 1991 Mercury was discovered just off of I-10 on West Bolivar Road just after 4:20 a.m. and she was pronounced dead almost immediately. Now, her car was actually still running and her skin was already chilled when police found her. But here's the thing, detectives noted a very strange detail. Both Kathy and her car had suffered minimal damage from the impact of this crash, leading investigators to immediately question the validity of that crash. So despite her death as an apparent side effect from this impact, Kathy had no obvious wounds. Like the impact was so minimal that it hadn't even disturbed the drink that she had in her cup holder. I mean, this drink hadn't spilled a drop, yet the crash had supposedly killed her. Also, her feet were pressed against the seat instead of towards the pedal. And although she hadn't been wearing her seatbelt, she hadn't pitched forward on impact. And actually appeared almost posed in the front seat where she was found.

Speaker 5:
[15:39] You'd imagine if she was in a ditch, like down in a ditch a little bit, she would be like tousled about, and her head would be flung forward, and her body would be slump and slack, but she was resting the opposite direction against the seat, like she was back.

Speaker 4:
[15:56] Yeah, I think one of the biggest indicators that this was not a crash was the fact that, I mean, if you have a cup of something, like a drink in your cup holder, and you get into a crash, even if it's just like a very, very minor crash, that's probably going to spill everywhere.

Speaker 5:
[16:13] Oh my God, I slam on my brakes even a little bit, and my purse is on the floor.

Speaker 4:
[16:17] Yeah, it goes flying, you know? Yeah. There's just absolutely no way that, first of all, this was a crash, but second of all, that that supposed crash would have killed her. It just doesn't make any sense. But also, only the front bumper of her car was tinged with mud from the drainage ditch where it had been found, indicating a more gentle impact from the crash that supposedly took her life. Now, another bizarre detail that they noted was that Kathy was found only 114 yards from her house. I mean, that's essentially like the length of a football field. So originally, detectives reported to the scene of what initially appeared to be like an open and shut case of a fatal car accident. But pretty early on, they realized that there was more to the scene than met the eye, and it turned into something far more sinister. And almost as soon as the Vidor Police Department arrived to survey the wreckage, detectives concluded that Kathy could not have been killed while traveling at the pace at which she had driven into that ditch. And furthermore, her cause of death was actually strangulation.

Speaker 5:
[17:27] Well, another strange detail was that when she was found deceased inside her car, she hadn't been wearing her daily makeup or jewelry or even her socks, which was very atypical for Kathy, who always looked prim and put together, especially for a date night out.

Speaker 4:
[17:45] Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Like, you know, she was just on a date with her new boyfriend. So why isn't she wearing any makeup and no jewelry? And she's like basically not wearing the outfit she went out in.

Speaker 5:
[17:57] Yeah, this is in direct contradiction to how her new boyfriend had described her looking on the night she died.

Speaker 4:
[18:04] Just like you're saying, like it was like, that's not what she was wearing.

Speaker 5:
[18:07] And even if they had spent some time together, like she didn't, it's not like she had her change of clothes and her jewelry with her. She didn't have anything. She didn't take off her makeup while she was with this guy at his hotel.

Speaker 4:
[18:18] Yeah. What is she going to be taking off her makeup as she's driving home? Like, no, no.

Speaker 5:
[18:23] Or even there. Like that did not happen. That's not what happened here. And it's not like she went home, changed, left, and then came back. Like, it's just, it's not clicking. Also, detectives came to the belief that Kathy had been killed elsewhere and that her body had been cleaned, redressed, and staged in her vehicle. But that in his panic, her killer, whoever he was, had forgotten to return her to the state she was in when she left for her night out. So, they're thinking they're getting away with something, staging the crash, and then...

Speaker 4:
[18:59] But it's clearly obvious that she was redressed and cleaned up.

Speaker 5:
[19:03] We've got a timeline. We know where she was before she was on her way home. Well, sadly, a setback came pretty early on in the case when the 35 millimeter camera that they were using to photograph the crime scene malfunctioned and they weren't able to use the real time footage that they gained from that night. All those photos are just gone, you know, in the age of film. But per her autopsy, they determined that Kathy, like Heath said, had died by strangulation and she had sustained a black eye, bruises to her skull and neck, and a broken nose in the process. So, again, Heath said she didn't have any visible injuries, right? Well, the thing is, is she had been cleaned up. So she didn't have a gushing, bloody, broken nose. You know, obviously, upon further discovery with the autopsy.

Speaker 4:
[20:00] Yeah, they're going to look into more than just what meets the eye.

Speaker 5:
[20:04] Yes, then the black eye is surfacing and they're realizing, oh, wait, her nose is actually broken, etc. But it's not like she was like banged up while she was in the car. You couldn't tell on first glance in the middle of the night that she was injured like this. There were also blood stains on her underwear and on parts of her skin, indicating that she had been bleeding when the crime took place. But that again, her skin had been wiped down and her clothing changed to clean up the bleeding which had likely been from the broken nose that she was given. So naturally, detectives reported to the house that Kathy shared with her husband and daughters, which again was right by the side of the crash about a football field away. After knocking on his door early that morning at about 5 a.m., Steve appeared fresh from sleep. His initial reaction was to say that Kathy wasn't home before they even asked about her. And then, when the officers asked if he knew where his wife was, they noticed that right after asking him this, that his eyes glanced down the street towards where the wreck had happened, despite the fact that he apparently had not heard the news of what happened to her yet. So they're like, you're looking in the right direction.

Speaker 4:
[21:22] Yeah, and it's incredible that they picked up on this, because it's like little signs like this that mean a lot. But it's so telling, it's so suspicious that Steve apparently doesn't even know where Kathy is apparently, but he's looking in the right direction, isn't he?

Speaker 5:
[21:39] Yes, and you know, that's a really important thing to note, I think. Because I think at this point in the story, it seems like the police are doing all the right things. A lot of other officers in small towns would look at this and be like, yeah, it was a car accident. Like they do seem to be noting some very important things here. But as we're going to talk about, a lot of people, including Kathy's family, think that this investigation was bungled. So I do want to note that they are doing some things right, but it's going to fuss up.

Speaker 4:
[22:10] Yeah, other things aren't done correctly here.

Speaker 5:
[22:13] Yes, well, when they informed Steve that his wife Kathy was dead, Steve broke down in tears. And as the conversation continued inside the house, he would sometimes throw himself on the couch in fits of grief. But just as soon as the fit started, he would compose himself and continue talking without a single tear in his eye. So suddenly he would just be like, oh, my God, and like fall on the couch in the back.

Speaker 4:
[22:41] He like looks up, he's like, wait, are you guys watching?

Speaker 5:
[22:43] Are you catching this?

Speaker 4:
[22:44] Are you seeing me?

Speaker 5:
[22:45] And not only is he putting on this whole performance, I'll say, before he's even getting the whole picture from the investigators, he's confidently telling Kathy's friends and family members that she had been using drugs and that she was driving drunk at the time of her supposed accident.

Speaker 4:
[23:04] So you're already like putting the blame on Kathy. Before you even know like the details of what even happened, you're saying, oh, well, you know, she was doing it's like you are victim blaming and it's so obvious what you're doing.

Speaker 5:
[23:20] This reminds me of the the Tara Grant case that we recently covered.

Speaker 4:
[23:26] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[23:27] You know, it's like when the husband suddenly starts putting all the blame on the victim, it's like it doesn't make you look good. You're not diverting well. You're just making yourself look worse and more suspicious.

Speaker 4:
[23:39] Exactly. I think when you do things like that, it's again, it's very telling. People know exactly what you're doing. You're making yourself look really bad.

Speaker 5:
[23:48] But by the way, he is saying this with no basis because actually, Kathy's toxicology report was clean and showed no signs of drugs or alcohol, despite Steve's insistence that she had likely met up with her new boyfriend and then crashed her car after driving home drunk. Which is another important thing to note is, not only is he blaming her right now, but he is telling people that, oh, she was probably with her new boyfriend. As you guys will learn, he apparently didn't know about this boyfriend and again, he was told that she was seeing her coworker Charlotte that night. So the fact that he is letting that slip, that he knows that she's with the boyfriend, tells us a lot because it tells us what he found out that night that he is later going to lie about, as you'll see.

Speaker 4:
[24:39] Right, because this meet up with the new boyfriend was supposed to be a secret. It was supposed to be a cover for actually meeting up with her new boyfriend. Or what I meant is meeting up with Charlotte, her co-worker friend was supposed to be the cover when she was actually going to meet the new boyfriend. Welp, the autopsy revealed another damning piece of evidence. Kathy had sexual intercourse shortly before she died. Now, initially, this doesn't seem so surprising given that she had met up with her new boyfriend at the Best Western just hours prior to being found deceased. But the testing on the seminal fluid that was on her body revealed a very interesting detail. The man that she had been with had had a vasectomy. And Kathy's new boyfriend, by the way, had never had a vasectomy. But her soon-to-be-ex-husband, Steve Page, had. So when Kathy's date was questioned, he admitted to having slept with Kathy on the late evening, I guess you could say early morning technically, since they were together between midnight and 2:30 a.m., that she was murdered. But he was very cooperative with the investigation from start to finish, even consenting to a polygraph examination and passing it. But when Steve was asked about Kathy's most recent sexual contact, he too admitted to having sex with her on the night that she died, though he claimed that it had been like a weak moment of nostalgia and pent up feelings before her night out, explaining, quote, She was getting ready. She had just got out of the shower. I approached her for sex, and we had sex before she left. Which by the way, you're literally sleeping on the fucking couch, buddy, and she hasn't slept with you in a long time, and you're saying that before she goes out— On a date with another man, by the way. Yeah, on a date with another man that you don't know about, that she just decided that she was going to have sex with you that night, nobody is buying that, Steve.

Speaker 5:
[26:43] Especially because she had confided in people close with her that he would force her to have sex sometime, so even if you did have sex, it would have been by force. There's no way she is willingly sleeping with you before a date when you, by the way, that same night is your first night out of the house, you're gone, buddy, we're splitting up.

Speaker 4:
[27:04] Yeah, it's just not believable. But what Steve couldn't explain was how it seemed that he slept with her more recently than she had with her new boyfriend. And yet she went out that night to see her boyfriend, who also claimed to have slept with her. Like, how did you, you said that you had sex with her before she went out on the date, but they actually confirmed that that wasn't true.

Speaker 5:
[27:27] Yeah, the timeline is not clicking in linear fashion whatsoever.

Speaker 4:
[27:32] And it was clear that that was on Steve's end because even her sister, Sherry, had issues with Steve's story, saying, quote, I personally don't believe that happened. She wouldn't have been with Steve before being with another man. She hadn't been with Steve in a long time. He was already sleeping on the couch, as I said. Him coming over to take care of the kids was more of a kindness gesture for him to be around his kids, not for him to be around Kathy.

Speaker 5:
[27:59] Exactly. Well, then, a notebook that was left near the phone in Kathy's home, so back at the house, offered another intriguing clue, revealing two phone numbers scrawled in Kathy's handwriting. Now, one number belonged to Charlotte. Remember, this is Kathy's work friend that she was supposedly meeting up with that night, but that was just a cover. And the other was the phone number for the best Western motel. What?

Speaker 4:
[28:28] Motel!

Speaker 5:
[28:29] I don't know what that was. It was for the best Western motel, where she was due to meet her new boyfriend. So Sherry maintained, quote, I was talking to a sister-in-law of Steve's, and she said that she knew for a fact that Steve made two phone calls that night. Steve called this one number, and the girl answered, so Charlotte, and he hung up. And then the second number was called, and they said the name of the hotel, and he hung up. And so he already knew where she might be or was.

Speaker 4:
[29:02] Which is so fricking interesting, considering he's not supposed to know that she was gonna be meeting up. And I think, you know, when he called the first number, and it was Charlotte's number, you know, he probably in his mind, he's thinking, okay, no big deal, that's maybe who she's supposed to be with, or I don't know. Then he calls the second number, and it's for the best Western. And he's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 5:
[29:28] Why is she calling the best Western?

Speaker 4:
[29:29] Yeah, like I see.

Speaker 5:
[29:30] He's like investigating.

Speaker 4:
[29:32] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[29:32] Trying to figure out where she is, what she's doing, because he's obsessive.

Speaker 4:
[29:37] Yeah, and so now he's putting two and two together.

Speaker 5:
[29:39] So that's what I meant earlier when he said, oh, she was probably drunk with her new boyfriend. Oh yeah, the new boyfriend that you apparently didn't know about, but you found out about that night because you called the best Western and you did some digging.

Speaker 4:
[29:52] Exactly.

Speaker 5:
[29:54] But he then would lie about that. So that's why there was a little slip up on his end. But back to these phone calls. So at first, Steve says that he called Charlotte. Like he's saying, yes, I did call this number because he wanted to ask about Kathy's whereabouts at about 2:30 a.m. But he then amended this and he said, actually, I called her at 3.30 and then he said he did this at 4.30. So he was changing the time multiple times. So detectives agree with Sherry's conclusion and believe that it is very likely that he came across the phone numbers and flew into a rage after discovering that she was meeting up with somebody else that night. And then he waited for her to come home before attacking her. Of course, as liars do, Steve later took his story back saying then that he hadn't made any phone calls that evening at all, and that he hadn't even waited up for Kathy to arrive home, going to bed almost as soon as she headed out for her date. But Kathy's dad James came to his own conclusion, saying, quote, I feel like she came in that night, come in the back door after she had gone and parked the car and he was asleep, sitting in a chair in the front room. And when she went on in the bathroom and changed clothes, took her makeup off, took her jewelry and all off, and he heard her probably in the bathroom, and he got up and demanded sex with her, whatever, and got in a fight. Now, Kathy's family came to the belief that Steve proceeded to rape Kathy and overcome with rage and jealousy. He murdered her. When he realized what he had done, he staged the car accident to cover for himself. And speaking of himself in the third person, because that is who Steve is. Steve later said, quote, Of course, I did not kill my wife. The evidence clearly shows that the perpetrator was someone other than Steve Page.

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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
[36:36] To the frustration of detectives, their request for a search warrant of the Page's home was denied for six years after Kathy's death, continually denied by the DA's office.

Speaker 5:
[36:47] That is absurd.

Speaker 4:
[36:49] Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. So investigators continued to do what they could, you know, speaking with the Page's neighbors, who were called having heard a fight breakout between the couple the day before Kathy was found deceased. However, maybe due to confusion about 12 a.m. versus 12 p.m., their neighbor initially claimed that the fight had taken place between 11 a.m. and 12 p.m., so during the day, and then later changed her story, claiming that it had actually taken place starting at 11 p.m. and gone into the early morning hours of May 14th when she was found deceased, which, you know, obviously would make a lot more sense.

Speaker 5:
[37:27] That would mean that they were fighting before she left to go on her date.

Speaker 4:
[37:32] Yes, but this neighbor unfortunately lost all credibility as a witness because, you know, of course, she changed her story, even though really it just kind of seemed like she had just messed up the timing. But still, investigators quickly aligned their conclusion with that of Kathy's father James, that Kathy had likely come home and removed her jewelry and makeup to get ready for bed and had been confronted with a fight from Steve, which escalated to rape and a physical altercation based on his jealousy that she was seeing somebody new. In the aftermath of the murder, it took only about a week to convince Kathy's entire family that Steve had been the one responsible. I mean, if you couldn't already tell, you know?

Speaker 5:
[38:18] Yeah, at first they were kind of on his side a little bit, and they were like, who could have done this? What could have happened? And then when they're really looking at it, they're like, oh, Steve did this.

Speaker 4:
[38:30] Well, when you get into the details of everything and just the way that Steve is acting, it really is quite suspicious. And Sherry even recalls seeing Steve and his friend removing a large manila envelope filled with metal clanging together and believes that it was the jewelry that Kathy had removed before Steve had killed her.

Speaker 5:
[38:52] Yeah, because it's in Steve's best interest to get rid of this jewelry because then it doesn't paint the picture that she came home and removed it. He doesn't want anybody to know that she came home. He wants them to think that something happened to her outside of the house and he was nowhere near it.

Speaker 4:
[39:11] Yeah, exactly. Even though, I will say, like staging a car accident 114 yards away from the place that you live, still doesn't make you look very good.

Speaker 5:
[39:24] Well, maybe in his mind he's like, oh, because she was on her way home and she was almost here. But then also, remember, if he's staging it, he's got to get home in the middle of the night and he can walk a football field, but further than that, no, he's gonna need a second person.

Speaker 4:
[39:36] We definitely talk about this a lot in other cases where a car is found miles and miles away from the person's house and you're like, okay, well, if a killer dropped this car off, they had to have had somebody come and pick them up was it a taxi, was there a friend helping them? But this is so easy for Steve, like you said, he just walks a football field and he's home.

Speaker 5:
[39:57] Exactly. Well, of course, Steve turned the police away from the home on the first day of the investigation, but here's why. Even though they're split up at this point for the most part. So maybe he's like, I don't care what happened. I mean, that POV doesn't even make any sense. This is the mother of your children. Even if you have split up, you should care that her case is solved. But you would think that he would have all the motivation then to say, come on in, do what you need, let's figure this out. But he didn't want to let them into the house because he was worried that they would find something like innocuous that would wind up incriminating him. So he's like, I'm just worried you're going to find something that is going to point to me. And I didn't actually do it. And I want you to think I did it, which is like, well, then I think you did do it and you're hiding evidence.

Speaker 4:
[40:51] You might find something that might put me in prison for the rest of my life.

Speaker 5:
[40:55] One of the things that he used as an example was that he was afraid they were going to find blood in the living room because sometimes Kathy would shave her legs in the living room. And maybe she had shed a bit of blood and that would seem suspicious, which like I don't know any women or people who shave their legs in the living room. Okay, maybe somebody does that and you have like a bowl of water next to you. I don't know. It's not impossible.

Speaker 4:
[41:21] But it seems like Steve is making up some weird situation that probably isn't true.

Speaker 5:
[41:28] That's also such a random example, like, oh, and then maybe she nicked herself and bled on the carpet and then you're going to think that equals me murdering her in the living room. It's like, then I wonder if you did murder her in the living room.

Speaker 4:
[41:39] Yeah, you know, sometimes Kathy, you know, she bakes cakes in the living room. And so, you know, she uses a knife when she's baking these cakes and if she, she's, you know, she's cut her finger before and it may be on the on the carpet. So don't be alarmed if the Kathy's blood is on the carpet of the living room.

Speaker 5:
[41:54] We're actually going to talk about more weird things that are apparently happening in the living room because he keeps pointing to the living room. There's a lot of examples of this particular area in this room. But yeah, it's just like, Steve, come on, get so real right now. This doesn't make any sense. But he is saying that he was being unfairly maligned as her husband and just ask them to focus their investigation elsewhere. I didn't do it. You know, just go somewhere else. Well, this is her house, bro.

Speaker 4:
[42:22] Why are you wasting time on me? I didn't do anything.

Speaker 5:
[42:25] But it's like, then like they obviously need to look into the house for more reasons than just to investigate you. This is where she was that night anyway. So if you're innocent, let us in and let's rule you out. But he knows they're going to find something if they do that. So he's saying, you're not allowed inside, get a warrant. Which obviously they could not do. But everybody was suspicious of Steve. I mean, even one of Kathy's brothers recalled seeing Steve, his sister Linda, and his mom Margie frantically cleaning a rug in their home. When her family, Kathy's family asked what they were cleaning, they brushed it off. And they said that they had been having a fish fry and spilled cooking oil on the living room rug, mind you. So again, this is why I was just saying there's more weirdness around the living room rug. It's like, what happened on that rug that you're trying to clean? Because it's not it's not a nick from her shaving her legs on the fricking couch. And it's not oil from a fish fry in the living room.

Speaker 4:
[43:34] Yeah, none of that is believable again.

Speaker 5:
[43:37] He was also later spotted burning trash in the aftermath of Kathy's murder. And neighbors recall seeing him and his family member seemingly celebrating afterwards. So this very, very clearly could be him burning evidence, obviously. I mean, sure, some people burn trash, but come on.

Speaker 4:
[43:59] And then they're going, do some people burn trash and then go, woohoo.

Speaker 5:
[44:02] True. Sherry, who again is Kathy's sister, also recalls just being irked by Steve's referral to Kathy's body as it in the wake of her death because, oh yeah, he was doing that. He was just being completely disrespectful about her death, which he himself really seemed to have caused and he's just calling her it. But instead, Steve pointed at a prominent local criminal enterprise, which seemed like a very convenient excuse, explaining, I received threats on the phone that the same thing that happened to my wife could happen to me. There's a certain person here in Beaumont that may have been involved. It's a very prominent family, an Italian family to let you know that they're considered part of the Beaumont mafia.

Speaker 4:
[44:52] I seem to have seen something very particular about the Beaumont mafia that is in Texas. And I think I've been receiving threats.

Speaker 5:
[45:03] Oh my god.

Speaker 4:
[45:04] That's really coming off that way. Like, you're, it's like a movie. Like, now you're saying that the Beaumont mafia was after your wife. Like, first of all, Steve is not saying who this person is. He's just being very vague and saying, oh, you know, there's a very prominent person here in Beaumont, and they may be responsible.

Speaker 5:
[45:26] Heath, if you were receiving threats that someone wanted to murder you, you would be like, hey, police, I got this call at this time. You wouldn't casually bring it up in an interview later.

Speaker 4:
[45:38] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[45:38] You would be like, if you're going so far to literally say publicly that the Beaumont mafia and Italian family in Beaumont is after you, publicly, which is like not what you do in those situations of the fucking mafias after you.

Speaker 4:
[45:54] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[45:54] You're going to call the police covertly and say, I was just threatened on the phone. Help me trace this call.

Speaker 4:
[46:01] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[46:02] Because it didn't happen.

Speaker 4:
[46:03] You're probably going to call police like immediately after you're threatened.

Speaker 5:
[46:06] And you're not going to put it out there publicly.

Speaker 4:
[46:09] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[46:09] This is the mafia. Or is it? I don't think it is.

Speaker 4:
[46:13] I don't think it is either.

Speaker 5:
[46:15] He also invoked the involvement of his own friend, Roger Howell, who was like a local bar owner, but he supposedly also worked as a private investigator, or at least he did when Steve asked him to help him out with Kathy's case. But instead of assisting the investigation, Roger was consistently hindering it. So reportedly, Roger was already telling people that Kathy was strangled on the morning she was found, before the autopsy had even been performed.

Speaker 4:
[46:44] Yikes, Roger.

Speaker 5:
[46:45] Yeah, and he actually called Linda, Kathy's friend and coworker at Hofbrau, to tell her that Kathy had been strangled later on the morning that the murder had occurred, again, when the autopsy had yet to be conducted. It happened later that afternoon. So interesting that this alleged PI and local who is friends with Steve seems to have some insider information.

Speaker 4:
[47:10] Yeah, so insider that they hadn't even conducted the autopsy yet.

Speaker 5:
[47:15] Yeah, which maybe the only place you could get that info is from the killer's mouth.

Speaker 4:
[47:19] Right. Well, unfortunately, 27 years passed with no real movement in Kathy's case. But then in 2018, an episode of Cold Justice reignited the quest for answers. As Cold Case Detectives conducted new interviews with key people from the case, including Mr. PI. Roger Howell. But he decided not to speak with police, though he had originally agreed to claiming his innocence in the case. Well, this show also revealed a very interesting new piece of evidence. So a local man had actually seen Steve walking away from the scene of the car accident. The man declined to come forward back in 1991 because he had been cheating on his wife at the time, and he was actually just afraid of getting caught.

Speaker 5:
[48:07] That's so disappointing, like, I get it, but hello?

Speaker 4:
[48:12] Yeah, I mean, when it comes to, like...

Speaker 5:
[48:14] This is a little more important.

Speaker 4:
[48:16] Yeah, it's coming down to a murder investigation, like you're choosing to hold this secret.

Speaker 5:
[48:22] And I know this is a small town, but like you couldn't have figured out a way to talk to police and tell them that you were cheating on your wife, and hey, I'm only telling you this because I know I have to, but please, don't let this bite me in the ass for what I'm doing wrong.

Speaker 4:
[48:37] I mean, you could have also just said like, hey, I was going for a walk, like.

Speaker 5:
[48:42] So true, there are ways.

Speaker 4:
[48:44] There are definitely ways. The only unfortunate part about this is that it's not like some anonymous tip, where they have to make sure, they have to interview you because this tip is so huge.

Speaker 5:
[48:57] Well, that's another thing though, is he was with his mistress, so she would have also needed to be interviewed. So maybe more would come out because they both could say, hey, this is what we saw together.

Speaker 4:
[49:12] But police were actually able to track down the woman that he was seeing, and sadly, she couldn't recall whether or not they had seen Kathy and Steve that night.

Speaker 5:
[49:20] Yeah, because it had been so long. She's like, I don't remember.

Speaker 4:
[49:24] His brother, however, recalled him mentioning this periodically over the years, and that he had maintained his insistence that Steve had been present at the scene of the accident that night. The Vidor Police Department and retired homicide investigator, Johnny Bonds, actually spoke with Steve Page during the production for the first time in years, approaching him at his Texas home. Barefoot and shirtless, Steve sauntered outside and hopped in the car with the detectives. While he was in the car, he immediately launched into an explanation that involved blaming Kathy for her unstable nature and for not knowing what she wanted out of life or out of their relationship. He also lied about having called Charlotte Morgan that night to see if Kathy was really with her, which she obviously wasn't, but investigators knew for a fact that he had done this based on his phone records, as well as having called that Bess Western, likely to sniff out his wife's whereabouts. Instead, Steve maintained his original story, that he simply went to bed that night. He also claimed that he didn't know about Kathy's new boyfriend until the next day after she was already deceased, which again we know is likely bullshit. When asked what he thought happened, Steve grew very defensive saying that he didn't know and that he presumed that Kathy met someone else that night after allegedly having consensual sex with both him and her new boyfriend.

Speaker 5:
[50:54] Right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker 4:
[50:55] So what? So there's a third player in this?

Speaker 5:
[50:57] Right. No. Then Steve was confronted with Kathy's sister's account. She said that she believed she saw Steve and his PI buddy Roger Howell disposing of Kathy's jewelry in a manila envelope. So he was asked about this and then asked if he woke up at any point during the night prior to hear the news that Kathy had been found dead before police told him. And Steve's reaction was to become very agitated. And then he just got out of the squad car. So it's like he all he knows how to do is become super defensive because he's being cornered, because he knows that they're on to him. And then he snapped at them and said, quote, I've answered this question twice. I'm done, guys. Y'all are doing the same thing. Trying to trick me into saying something slightly different than what I said before. I don't have time for this. He was then asked to take a polygraph and told them, quote, I'm not going to do anything else. Y'all keep investigating. I hope y'all really find what happened. Unfortunately, even with the new evidence emerging from renewed interest in the case, no developments were made as the DIA didn't feel like there was enough to secure a conviction. DIA! I honestly, like, I have issues with my mouth. Like, I cannot speak sometimes.

Speaker 4:
[52:22] All good.

Speaker 5:
[52:23] However, Steve was convicted, fined, and sentenced to probation after he was recorded on video kicking her grave, which is, like, insane.

Speaker 4:
[52:36] That's so insane.

Speaker 5:
[52:37] And knocking over the flowers that were left there for her. So there's a video of him literally kicking her grave.

Speaker 4:
[52:44] Yeah, and the crazy part is it's not like this just happened once. He returned to the grave to do this multiple times like this vicious little freak that he is.

Speaker 5:
[52:55] I don't know if this video is out there. I haven't seen it. I did look for it. If we find it, we will post it on socials. But at the end of the day, it's just what matters is that it happened.

Speaker 4:
[53:05] It's terrible, and it's unhinged.

Speaker 5:
[53:08] And he was questioned about this, by the way. And they're like, what was your motivation behind literally kicking her grave and the flowers? And he just kind of brushed it off. And he said that the flowers were cheap and they weren't befitting of a memorial for Kathy. And then it made him angry.

Speaker 4:
[53:27] You've been blaming her for decades, and now the flowers aren't good enough. And that's why you had to kick them over numerous times.

Speaker 5:
[53:34] There's no, and you're kicking the flowers for not being good enough. But the thing is, this is just one of a couple of stories he told me, because at another point, Steve blamed Kathy's family for, quote, baiting him and making him so angry that he kicked the flowers over. So then he's like, I was just so mad at her family that I had to kick her grave.

Speaker 4:
[53:55] Yeah, which one is it, Steve?

Speaker 5:
[53:57] Which one is it? Neither. Well, as of now, Steve remains the sole suspect in Kathy's murder, though he has never been charged with anything except for desecrating his wife's grave, because he was charged for that, because again, he was on video. He and his daughters left the area in 1995, so four years after Kathy's death, mostly due to the bad publicity that he was receiving as the only suspect in his wife's killing. And sadly for Kathy's family, Monica and Erin mostly stayed away from Kathy's side of the family after they moved away. Which I think a lot of us will agree that this was done by Steve. He probably said a lot of things to his daughter, said a lot of bad things about Kathy's family that were not true.

Speaker 4:
[54:44] Yeah, I mean, they were fairly young when their mother was murdered. So it's like Steve could have easily kind of manipulated the situation and said, we're not going to hang around Kathy's family because of this and that, whatever, and then finally move them away four years later. Well, after three civil trials, the first two of which ended in mistrials, Steve was found financially responsible for Kathy's death in 2000, and was ordered to pay out $200,000 to her grieving family.

Speaker 5:
[55:19] Yeah, because Kathy's parents actually sued him. They filed a wrongful death suit against Steve, and he was found responsible for that, but he was never criminally charged for her murder. This was in civil court.

Speaker 4:
[55:35] Yeah, and it's basically because her parents, and especially her dad, led a very tireless crusade to find answers in the case of his daughter's murder over the years. In a letter that he wrote to the city officials, he said, quote, Tell me, what would you do if this happened to your daughter, and the murderer or murderers still run free? I promise you, I'm not going to stop here if something is not done. But Steve staunchly maintains, quote, I know that I didn't do it. I know the facts clearly show I didn't do it.

Speaker 5:
[56:07] So clearly that you were found guilty in a civil court.

Speaker 4:
[56:11] Yeah, for the wrongful death. Okay, Steve. But Kathy's dad, James, has definitely pursued justice in his daughter's case and continued to pay to advertise her information on billboards in and around the area, which also boasts a $50,000 reward. He really didn't mince his words when it came to the billboards. One read, quote, Steve Page brutally murdered his wife in 1991. Vidor PD does not want to solve this case. I believe they took a bribe. The Attorney General should investigate. And then it's signed James Fulton, her father. I mean, that's fucking brutal. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5:
[56:55] They could even more so love it.

Speaker 4:
[56:57] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[56:57] Keep going.

Speaker 4:
[56:57] Well, another showcased a photo of Steve and it read, quote, Inviter, he got by with murder. And then it lists three points. Found responsible for wife's death in court case. Appeals court upheld conviction. Pleaded guilty of desecrating her grave. Criminal case, no arrests. And I'll read one more. It says, Vidor's garbage dump park, security provided by the local police department. I believe my daughter was being raped while she was strangled to death in 1991. The Vidor police department would not accept outside help and the case has never been solved. I believe the police department did not want to solve this case. Will you be the next unsolved murder? Predators love parks. The Vidor police department that did not solve my daughter's murder will be assisting you with any complaints or problems of this so-called park.

Speaker 5:
[57:56] I mean, that one's really funny because this is outside of a park, of course, and he's saying, oh, you want to come enjoy this park while the security is done by these people who bungled my daughter's murder case.

Speaker 4:
[58:06] Yeah, they can't solve the case.

Speaker 5:
[58:08] Yeah, I mean, I love how straightforward they all are. Usually for billboards for missing people or murdered people, we see just the information, call this number if you have any tips, and a picture of them with a big missing or murdered. But this is like, hey, this guy did this. These people aren't doing shit. It's like, damn.

Speaker 4:
[58:32] And you can really understand James' frustration. Like, you just, you get it, you know? It's like, it's been decades. It feels so cut and dry. I think all of us kind of know who's responsible. James feels like he knows who's responsible, and nothing is being done.

Speaker 5:
[58:50] Yeah, I mean, kudos to him for doing what he felt like he had to do. And obviously, if these billboards sound at all familiar for some of you who have seen the Oscar-winning 2017 movie Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, it's because the movie is loosely based on this crime, or at least the billboards connected to this case really inspired the movie after the director, Martin McDowell, saw James' billboards and described them as, quote, raging and painful and tragic. Martin actually admitted that the billboards really gnawed at him for years after he saw them. Actually, the movie, which again came out in 2017, is responsible for reigniting interest in Kathy's case. That is why Cold Justice did their episode and digging the following year in 2018. For those who haven't seen it, not going to spoil it, but the victim in the movie is a young woman named Angela played by Katherine Newton whose mother Mildred played by, of course, Francis McDormand who won the Oscar, puts up three very direct billboards in their small town. One says, raped while dying, then the one right after it says, and still no arrests, and the one right after it says, how come Chief Willoughby? These are a little bit more simple. You know, she herself is trying to find answers in the case of her deceased daughter after the police bungled the murder investigation. So obviously, I'm sure a lot of this sounds familiar. This is pretty much exactly what James Fulton did for Kathy Page. And I think in both situations, the movie and real life, these billboards really struck a nerve for the police because there's a lot of blame being put on these billboards. I'm sure Steve didn't like them either. The fact that his face is on it and it's like he got by with murder, like, whoa. Well, sadly, the tragedy in Kathy's family did not end with her. Her daughter Monica died of an overdose, which was believed to have been a suicide at just 27 years old after a years long battle with dependence on prescription painkillers. She apparently and understandably really struggled greatly under the weight of her mother's murder and all the questions it left behind, including, of course, whether or not her own father was responsible.

Speaker 4:
[61:21] Monica passed away on March 14th of 2011 and is buried right next to her mother. But for the sake of presenting all sides, it's very important to note that in the time when Kathy's daughters were cut off from her side of the family, Erin shared her thoughts and feelings about the situation online and explained her feelings about her grandfather's effort to secure an arrest basically at any cost. In a 2014 post that she wrote on her blog, she admitted that she thought that there were lies and false accusations happening on both sides. But it's possible that this is a product of Steve's involvement and that he couldn't help but play the victim. In a 2018 interview, Steve Page said, You know, I understand how they feel. You want someone to blame. The police bungled the case and told them I'm the one to blame because they can't figure out what really happened. They turned all of their anger to me. This ruined my whole life. It ruined my entire life. Kathy's sister Diane claims that she understands why the girls kept their distance after leaving Vidor, but added, I hope that one day Aaron will talk to us. Really and truly, she lost two parents. I don't blame Aaron. I don't blame any of them. She's still Kathy's kid. Aaron has been intermittently estranged from her father throughout her life as well, but in her most recent interview in 2018, she admitted that all she wanted out of the situation was resolution. She explained, quote, I don't want it to be my dad. I don't want my dad to have killed my mom. What I want is the truth.

Speaker 5:
[63:03] Steve now lives in the Houston area and has continued to blame the lack of answers in Kathy's case on the police mishandling the evidence and investigation, which it seems is the only thing that he and James can agree on. James, again, of course, Kathy's father saw his wife, Dorothy, pass away in 2007, and then, of course, he lost his granddaughter as well. Then James himself died in September of 2025 at the age of 94, without ever seeing justice served for his beloved daughter. As of 2021, the reward for information in Kathy's case is still sitting at $50,000. So if you have any information about the murder of Kathy Page, please call Crime Stoppers of Southeast Texas at 409-833-8477. Thank you so much, everybody, for listening to this episode of Going West.

Speaker 4:
[64:12] Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. I hope that one day real justice is served. Like, I know that Steve had to pay 200K and was held kind of responsible for the wrongful death lawsuit.

Speaker 5:
[64:25] The civilly liable.

Speaker 4:
[64:27] Yeah, but it just does not really feel like enough. And by the way, I just want to mention, if you did hear any snoring during this episode, today we have Dewey, our mascot bulldog in the studio with us. So if you heard any snoring, it was definitely him.

Speaker 5:
[64:41] He's being very loud. Stay tuned for the end of this episode for some Dewey ASMR. But yeah, this is such a frustrating story, especially again, the fact that police from the very beginning knew that something was up. They have believed it was Steve this entire time, but for some reason cannot get, couldn't get a search warrant for the house, could not actually hold him responsible. It just blows your mind how that's possible.

Speaker 4:
[65:08] Please let us know what you think about this case. Let us know how frustrated you are, if you believe that Steve is responsible. You can see photos of Kathy and everybody else involved in this case over on our socials. We're on Instagram at GoingWestPodcast. We're also on Facebook as well as TikTok.

Speaker 5:
[65:27] Yeah, leave us a comment. Let us know what you think and we will see you guys on... Tuesday.

Speaker 4:
[65:34] All right guys, so for everybody out there in the world, don't be a stranger.