transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Cara, at Great Wolf Lodge, there's adventure for the whole family. I'm excited to check out the lodge in the Poconos, which is close to me. And with 23 lodges across the country, there's probably one near all of you too. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park, where it's always a toasty 84 degrees. There's a wave pool, a lazy river, and a bunch of massive water slides, including ones your family can enjoy all together.

Speaker 2:
[00:31] They even have adventure-packed attractions, from Magi Quest, a live-action game that kids can play throughout the lodge, to the Northern Lights Arcade. And there's also a bunch of great dining options and complimentary daily events, like nightly dance parties, all under one roof. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more at greatwolf.com. That's greatwolf.com. And strengthen the pack.

Speaker 3:
[01:01] This dependence on your device as some kind of safety tool that you have is wrong. The friend is the person that you trust, who you go to the party with, and you have a plan for how you're going to leave at the end of the night, and you don't leave without a friend. And so yeah, I'm harboring some of these fears about the decisions that they'll make. Remember, your phone is not a friend.

Speaker 2:
[01:32] Hi, Vanessa.

Speaker 1:
[01:33] Hi, Cara.

Speaker 2:
[01:34] You know how we always talk about do-overs?

Speaker 1:
[01:36] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[01:38] If I could take a do-over, I would do what Christina Geist did before her kids went to college. So in the year before Christina launched her daughter, her oldest, she embarked on an accidental project, not accidental really, but like unanticipated, I would say, where she started writing down reflections and truisms about the lessons she hoped her kids would take away when they left home, when they moved to the next stage of their life. This is a conversation about that exercise and the book that followed from that. It's like, honestly, oh my God, it was the best idea. I wish I had done that. I mean, maybe it's because she's so amazing, but also it's such a good idea.

Speaker 1:
[02:30] Yeah. I mean, Christina is so thoughtful and warm, and she has a background in writing books. I mean, not these kind of books. She is the author of the Growing with Buddy series of picture books for kids, and New York Times bestselling author, and she's an entrepreneur, and she does branding, and all this stuff. But this book is just like a beautiful, it's like a faberge egg of a book for launching college kids. I don't know how else to describe it.

Speaker 2:
[03:03] And that was a random one, but I agree.

Speaker 1:
[03:05] The car is on board with a totally random description, and you'll see exactly what we mean. Get the book, read the book, you'll listen to our conversation, and it is just like in those moments when you can't believe this is where you are in life, and this is where your kid is in life. It's like a lifeline to make sense of it all and to help layer on meaning and context in really valuable ways. So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Christina Geist. Hi, Christina.

Speaker 3:
[03:39] Hi, Vanessa. Hi, Cara.

Speaker 2:
[03:41] Hi.

Speaker 3:
[03:42] Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:
[03:44] We're so happy you're here, partially because we met your less good half. Is that how one might say it? Your lesser half. Your very lovely. My other half. Your other half. See, that's how a generous person would say it. If someone was like, I met your husband, he would be like, oh, you met my wife. She's my better half. I'd be like, yes, you met my less good half. We met Willie on Morning Joe a couple of years ago, and we were super psych because we knew you guys had teens, and we were like, he totally gets it, he's living it, and then Mika was on camera from DC, and I was like, oh, she's raised teens, great. Then the third person at the desk that morning, where I had the craziest news anchor hair ever, it was 20 feet wide, was Mike Barnicle. I was like, oh, God, I can't believe I'm going to talk to Mike about porn. I don't even know how to do this. Do they even talk about porn in Boston? Needless to say, he was a total champ. He got right into the puberty and porn conversation, and it was such a blast. Mika was trying to get me to say all sorts of shocking things on television, which I did not say. I found my way around it. Cara got all the questions that were never going to be used in hilarious memes and clips later on. She got all the sciency stuff.

Speaker 2:
[05:14] You put MD after your name and you just slide by.

Speaker 3:
[05:18] Yeah, you get out of those messes.

Speaker 2:
[05:20] You get a pass. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:22] We handed Willie a book and I was like, okay, this is for you, but it's really for Christina. He was like, okay, I got it. I always wondered, I was like, did he actually give her the book? I have just found out everyone that not only did Christina get the book, but she's now handed it off to other people in her life, which is kind of apropos of what we're going to talk about today, Christina, which is your new book, Before You Fly Away, and I swear to God, tears, tears. I didn't even have to open the book, and there were tears. But before we get there, we just have to do a little backstory about you and Willie, because you have an origin story in your adolescence. And for those of you who think that middle schoolers or high schoolers cannot fall in love and don't feel things deeply and meaningfully, Christina, tell us your origin story.

Speaker 3:
[06:21] I will. First of all, thank you for having me, and I love the work the two of you are doing. I think it's so important, and also just hits home with me, and I know so many other parents out there, in your tone, your delivery and credibility is matched by your ability to really understand and empathize with parents today. So I just want to commend you for your whole platform. And I love this idea of taking something and then just allowing the snowball effect to happen around it, but staying true to your core message, and then finding other ways to deliver that. So I really admire the work you're doing, and I am so honored to be here.

Speaker 2:
[07:10] All right, we're done with this podcast. This was great. It was great to have you.

Speaker 3:
[07:15] Now we can go for it.

Speaker 1:
[07:16] Can you tell that Christina is a brand strategist in addition to being a writer? Because she's like, I was like, oh my god, that's like the nicest. Everyone's always like, you guys do too much. You're doing too many things. And now someone's like, no, I get it. You're doing exactly right. So thank you for that compliment on many, many layers. Okay, let's talk about adolescent love now.

Speaker 3:
[07:37] Back to middle school. So I grew up in Ridgewood, New Jersey, and it's a nice leafy suburban town, about a half an hour outside of New York City. If you're from this part of the country, you can kind of picture your own version of that town. It's the kind of town where there are six elementary schools, two middle schools, one high school, right in the center town, big red brick building, you know, in the football field that you drive by on your way to the train station, you know, all that stuff. So I grew up, I'm the second of four kids. I have an older sister and then ten years later, a younger brother and a younger sister, same parents, same marriage. That's another episode. But I have this like interesting background of being a sibling, but also being a much older sibling. So that kind of feeds into a lot of things I think about sort of my life and philosophy and work that you guys are doing too. So anyhow, I show up at middle school, George Washington Middle School, first day of school in sixth grade, and in my homeroom class, the teacher, Mr. Kaplan, who recently resurfaced in our lives, which is fun. He said on the first day of school, if you went to this elementary school, go stand over here. If you went to this one, stand over here, and if you went to this one, stand over here. And so we all did that because the three elementary schools pooled to a single middle school. And then in the middle of the room are a couple of kids who didn't go to any of those three elementary schools. And one of them was this very tall, blankey kid, blonde at the time. His hair turned brown, I guess, in puberty later on in our teenage years. But at the time, he was more blonde. And it was Willie Geist. And he had gone to one of the elementary schools on the other side of town, and his family had relocated before middle school. So he didn't go to any of the three. So he was kind of standing there. And I remember that as my first impression of him. And I do remember that moment. So I'm 11 at the time. It's funny because all these years later, we both just turned 50 this year. I feel like he's sort of always been a version of that guy. He's very tall. First thing people say when they meet Willy in real life is, oh my gosh, you're so tall. So he's like almost 6'4. He's like between 6'3 and 6'4. So he is physically like a presence in a room. And he is the kind of person that's just kind of comfortable in his own shoes, which at the time were high top Converse.

Speaker 1:
[10:06] Size 12 on point.

Speaker 3:
[10:08] He is, yeah, he's size 13 shoe now. So he probably was about a 12 then. And he's just always been kind of comfortable, confident, but not in a cocky way. And the attention just kind of naturally shifts to him in a room, whether like he was an athlete growing up, he's very funny, he's very smart. We were in a lot of same classes when we were young. No offense to a lot of my girlfriends, but I tended to be in classes with like all the guys, like this one group of dudes and me, all the way from like middle school through Ridgewood High School. And so when people ask me now, oh, he's, you know, he's been on TV for all these years and he does all the work that he does publicly. Are you surprised by that? My response is always no, I'm not surprised by that because I am proud of him. I am happy for him. Of course, I celebrate all of his success, but I'm not surprised by it because he's kind of always been this guy.

Speaker 1:
[11:10] But brass tacks, when did you start dating?

Speaker 3:
[11:14] So we dated, we are always friends. We dated, we had a crush on each other like end of eighth grade and then you go, you go away for the summer, you know? So, and I remember I called him over the summer between eighth and ninth grade. It was a big deal. I called his house because, you know, we had to call each other's houses.

Speaker 1:
[11:31] Yeah. I bet you still remember his phone number, but I won't ask you to repeat it.

Speaker 3:
[11:35] I do.

Speaker 1:
[11:35] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[11:36] Of course I do. And so we dated for a little bit at the beginning of freshman year in high school and then I broke up with him and we went out and I went out with a couple older boyfriends, freshmen, sophomore year. Junior year, we got back together. I don't know if you count that as back together. We dated junior and senior year of high school. Senior year of high school, I was one of those kids that was on the waitlist until like June of senior year of where am I going to college? I'm not actually sure. I was on the waitlist at one school. I was into another. He and several kids from our high school had all decided to go to the other school. I didn't get in off the other waitlist. So all of a sudden I had to go to my boyfriend's house right before high school graduation and say, hey, we're going to the same college. Wow. Which was the weirdest thing and unexpected. Talk about awkward. Awkward. I mean, really awkward because no one does that. So we had to decide, do we break up? Do we, what do we do? We get to college and we did, we attempted to break up multiple times. It wasn't dramatic or tumultuous. We just thought it was what we were supposed to do. So we broke up multiple times freshman year in college until we just gave up on breaking up and we were like, why are we bothering with this? Because we were never really that couple that was kind of like off in the corner being a couple. We were always just at the party and happened to both just be at the same place at the same time because when you grow up together, that's kind of how you are. You're not like, we'll be going on spring break together. Well, the rest of you are in like Cancun.

Speaker 2:
[13:11] Flex.

Speaker 3:
[13:14] We would go with our friends.

Speaker 1:
[13:15] We were always with our friends.

Speaker 3:
[13:16] We dated through college, broke up after college for three years, moved to different cities, started different lives, and then kind of both realized, wait a minute, maybe we really are supposed to be together, got back together at 25, got married at 28.

Speaker 1:
[13:35] My God, it's a saga.

Speaker 2:
[13:37] You basically met at the beginning of puberty, and you got married at the end of brain development.

Speaker 3:
[13:45] Yes, Cara. I guess that's medically true. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[13:49] There we go.

Speaker 1:
[13:49] There you go, which explains why you ended up getting back together.

Speaker 3:
[13:54] That's the backstory.

Speaker 1:
[13:55] We're going to come back to relationships and moving from high school to college and relationships and all of that stuff. But let's dive in a little bit to why you wrote Before You Fly Away, and your background is in writing. You wrote a New York Times bestselling children's book, and those focus on routines for parents and adults and kids, like bedtime and adjusting to school and making new friends. Lessons in that way. In some way, your new book is a continuation, and in other ways, it's a departure. Can you talk about what inspired it, and then we're going to dig really deep into this topic?

Speaker 3:
[14:40] Yeah. Sure. So yes, I've written three picture books for children. That all started pretty late in my life. I sold my first picture book manuscript when I was 40, and I think I've always had stories dancing around in my head. I've always been the type of person that when I'm thinking about something, I'm thinking about how I'll say it or how I would write it. I think in words is the easiest way for me to kind of describe. And so it's natural for me at moments of emotional connection to express that by writing it down. That's kind of always been part of the way I process things in my life. And even so much when I was turning 40 and my college best friends from college were turning 40, I launched a business based off of the memory boxes we were making for one another where we would capture messages and photos from everyone in someone's life and package them and print them inside of a really beautiful lacquer box. And that became a business, thank you, called Boombox that I ran for eight years and grew as a consumer brand, as a business, and it was all about expression and using your words. And so here I was this past year. My oldest was a senior in high school. She has just graduated. She's about to head off to college any day now. And I found myself living with my high school senior, observing the pressures that she was under on a daily basis. And at the same time, processing quietly my own emotions about the fact that she would be leaving our household. And so over the course of her senior year, didn't want to be another voice in her ear with anything other than quiet support for what she was going through. So I needed to take these thoughts I was having and put them somewhere. So I just kind of had a note in my phone going that was the repository or the little journal in the notes app of the things that, oh my god, does she know this? If I want her to walk away from this house after 18 years and know what it meant to grow up here, and what it meant to have us as parents, would she say what I think she would say? And so I started to just put these things in my phone, and then I realized I had about a hundred or so of these statements. And it got to be mid-year, maybe around February. And I heard from my book agent, from my children's picture books, who I talk to now, every now and then, and I kind of given myself a little breather from thinking about writing another book for a while, and sort of focusing on things at home, and just allowing myself to kind of have some free space. Because I think when you're a writer and you've done one thing once or you've had success with something, then people just kind of expect that you're going to keep doing it again and again and again.

Speaker 1:
[17:50] Cara has no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:
[17:53] I mean.

Speaker 1:
[17:56] Ten books later, she's like, I'm done. I'm not writing another book. I'm done.

Speaker 2:
[18:00] I call it a breather. I like that word. It's a breather. I'm taking a breather for the rest of my life.

Speaker 3:
[18:06] Okay. I support that. But the people who work around you, who their livelihood or their professional success is related to you, don't want you to take that breather.

Speaker 2:
[18:22] Yes, and that's how you get the slow, gentle, then really profound suction back into that world. Although, the way you landed there is quite authentic.

Speaker 3:
[18:36] Correct. Which is amazing. I think we have a kind of, maybe this goes back to like the branding muscle in me, is that there tends to be this kind of inclination in the world we live in, that when something's good, do it this way and that way and that way and that way and that way, right? And then what's the next iteration of it again and again and again? And after I'd written these three picture books and they're all about the same character, I was like, he's done. He's not going to get any older. He's done what I want him to do.

Speaker 1:
[19:09] He's not going through puberty.

Speaker 3:
[19:10] He's not going to go through puberty, at least not with me.

Speaker 2:
[19:14] Yes, we're going to press pause on his puberty, yes?

Speaker 3:
[19:17] Yes, he's going to stop here. And so I talked to my agent in the winter about this idea, which became Before You Fly Away, and I sent it to her and she was like, I think this is great. We could pitch it and I realized, oh wait, okay, if we pitch this out, it's going to take at least a year. It doesn't have as much artwork as a picture book. My picture books take two to three years. There's no way this will be done this spring for my daughter's graduation and my son is turning 16, so he's about to drive. So they're both sort of leaving in their own way. And I also have this kind of entrepreneurial side of me, like let's just figure it out ourselves. And so I called my business partner, Todd True. True Geist is a branding firm that we run together. He thinks in pictures, I think in words. That's how we work. And we've worked together for 20 years in the branding and design world. I was like, hey, knock, knock, can you help me make this book? And he's like, he's the kind of guy that's like, yeah, let's figure it out. So we did, we figured it out, you guys. We designed and produced Before You Fly Away on a self-publishing platform in six weeks.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[22:55] We're obviously going to be twinning. Refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/awkward for free shipping and 365-day returns now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/awkward for free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com/awkward. So here you are ready to launch one child, one and a half children, right? If one's driving, one and a half children and a book. And it's a beautiful confluence of things. I want to sort of go back six months in time, eight, nine months in time to the notes that you were taking, the brain dump that you were doing as this project was beginning, because it really is authentic in the most beautiful way, this book. What's the original framing lessons for yourself, things that you were reflecting on that you had learned, lessons that you hoped you had imparted? Did you do that thing? I think you're far more evolved than I am. I think I would have written-

Speaker 1:
[24:10] I knew this was going to come up.

Speaker 2:
[24:11] You knew this was coming. I think I would have written the notebook of what I wish my kids would answer if a stranger asked them like, what did you write Vanessa? Is that where you figured I was going?

Speaker 1:
[24:21] Oh, I thought you were going to say the things that my kids will tell their therapist someday of how I screwed up.

Speaker 2:
[24:27] That too, that too, but as you first started keeping a list, was it through your eyes, through their eyes, and did it change over time? Did that morph as you developed this accidental book?

Speaker 3:
[24:44] I think it was the things I hope that they know are the rules of life, if you've been raised by me, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2:
[24:56] It's great, yes.

Speaker 3:
[24:58] I hope that if you had said, hey, your mom's written 50 things, and I try to use as discrete and as little language as possible.

Speaker 1:
[25:10] Right, which is the way to a teen's heart. You keep it short and sweet. I mean, if my husband had written this book, it would be like 8,000 pages long because all of his lectures of our children and all his weird metaphors, and similes, and references would have been thrown in, and our kids would have stopped reading after five pages. But the trick with this is like, it's really like little golden nuggets page by page. Some of them are like, oh yeah, I would have expected that and other ones are kind of unexpected.

Speaker 2:
[25:45] I want to get into them, and I want to ask this as we get into them. I want to ask, are they as authentic as they feel? Like, is this stuff that, as you said, there are things that you wish they would sort of reflect upon as being raised by you. But have these been achieved currently or are these still aspirational?

Speaker 1:
[26:08] Are you asking for a friend?

Speaker 3:
[26:11] In the introductory page, I say, these are life lessons. Some big, some small. Some were learned the hard way. Others by observation, while several are still a work in progress. Lesson number one, after all, is to be nice to yourself. So I am still working on a lot of this every day. So I really did not intend for this to be preachy. I didn't intend for it to be something that was embarrassing to my kids. There were a lot, Cara, that both of you, both of you probably would have liked some of the others. So 50 made it in the book. It's the year I turned 50. It felt like the right number. There are 50 more that were on the page. Some I didn't include just because they were sort of repetitive and saying the same thing three different ways. But also some of them were more about the Friday and Saturday nights. I think it was, I can't remember, Vanessa. I think it was you, Vanessa, on social recently where you were saying, before they leave the house, don't touch a pill. Don't touch a pill. Don't ever touch a pill. No pills, no powder. And I was like, yes, this is right. So there was some stuff like that in that list, but I decided to just not go there. Maybe that's a whole other book, to be honest. Like Before You Go Out on Saturday Night. And that's meant for kids that are a little bit older. But I tried to-

Speaker 2:
[27:40] Let's go author that book, Christina. I would write that book with you.

Speaker 3:
[27:43] Okay, let's do it. Now I've got this self-publishing thing cracked. I can figure this out. But yeah, I tried to focus on actually like 8 to 80, things that don't alienate anyone, that felt pretty evergreen and pretty universal. And what I originally did with this is the two kind of sample copies that we printed first too. I handed to my kids and I told them, we had a private moment in our kitchen where I was like, this is what I've been up to the last couple of months. And you know, I had a little cry and they were both like, totally dumbfounded. And then as they both started to leaf through it, they were like, yeah, of course, of course. So I think if you had handed them a blank piece of paper, numbered one through 50 and said, your mom wrote her 50 rules, what do you think they are? I think that the majority of them, they would have written down.

Speaker 2:
[28:44] That'd be such a good exercise.

Speaker 3:
[28:46] Yeah, it's too late now. I probably should have done that, but oh well.

Speaker 2:
[28:49] I'm thinking I'll do it as a summer fun project. That would be really fun for them. But like really like maybe just 10 rules, you think your parents?

Speaker 1:
[28:57] Yeah, or 10 lessons.

Speaker 2:
[28:59] 10 truisms, yes, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[29:01] The book, Christina, I mean, my favorite, we'll go through a few of our favorites. My personal favorite is rinsing something is not the same as washing it. I mean, I like Just About Wet My Pants when I read that because I was like, and that's optimistic that it even gets to a source of water where it could be rinsed as opposed to somewhere on a shelf or a desk or something like that. But I mean, that one really made me giggle. There's a bunch of themes and it's not organized by themes. It's really, it's a mixture of all different things that sort of tug at different parts of our hearts and our minds. But I want to go back to a comment you made earlier to explore one set of truisms, which is pushing back on the pressure that life puts on us. Pushing back on the sort of, as our friend Jenny Wallace talks about, the achievement culture, the toxic achievement culture, and sort of really getting your priorities straight. And there are two that I pulled and you guys may have others. One is your life is measured in relationships, not your accomplishments, which is something we often say but don't always follow through on as parents. I want to talk about that. And then, if you spend your time coveting other people's stuff, you will never be satisfied. Or as my mother always says, there will always be someone richer, thinner, and more successful than you. So stop trying to be any of those things. But I want to, like, was that coming from watching your high school senior go through this crazy, frankly broken college admissions process? Was that coming from you as a mom? Like, what were the sources of those truisms?

Speaker 3:
[30:50] Your life is measured in your relationships, not your accomplishments, is wholeheartedly the way I was raised. My maiden name is Sharkey. And if you grew up in Ridgewood, New Jersey, in the 90s, you know a Sharkey. I'm one of four kids. My parents were constantly surrounded by friends. Their friends were our family. And they, without ever speaking those words, raised us 100% according to this kind of philosophy that was never spoken aloud, that at the end of the day, it's your relationships that define you. And don't get me wrong, I come from a very high-achieving household. We're not schlumps. We definitely came home with a certain report card, and there were high expectations that we had as a family and that we still place upon ourselves in life. You have to have the accomplishments or you can't pay the bills. So it's not that they don't matter, but they should serve your relationships, not the other way around. So you shouldn't end up in transactional relationships that you're in because they serve just your career or your ambition. Your relationships should not serve your accomplishments. Your accomplishments should give you the tools, the money, the free time and the fun to enhance your relationships. So that's 100% the life I grew up understanding even though my parents still have never said that out loud. As far as the coveting other people, we raised our kids in New York City until my daughter was 15 years old, and then we moved to the suburbs. So my kids have this dual childhood. The thing I thought that was so interesting about being in New York, is that you don't really know where people live. You can have very good friends and you've never seen their apartment. You don't even know if they own a car, let alone what the car looks like. And you have friendships that are really not related to material things at all. You're kind of like, your playground is the city. You're out in the playgrounds. You're out on the street. You're doing stuff. You're not like in each other's homes talking about what kind of countertops you have. It's just not the way you live. But then there are moments where you're aware of other people's wealth, right? And that becomes clear in some ways or another, right? Someone's got this thing they do on the weekends that's different from you. And also when kids are in dress code, which I feel so strongly about, you also don't even know anything because you don't know what kind of brand of clothes they would be wearing because you're not wearing those. You're wearing this like kilt, you know? And so I found myself to be a strong proponent of dress code too, which I didn't grow up that way but I think it really does help to kind of neutralize all of that noise around material things. But that was a conversation I had with my daughter pretty early on in elementary school was, look, someone's always going to have more and you're always going to have more than some of the people in your life and you need to make what's interesting about you never the things. That's not what's interesting about you.

Speaker 2:
[34:19] I find it fascinating that you didn't utter the words social media or tech in that description because this concept has been around far longer than these technology platforms. You talk about how your parents raised you a little bit and these are things that are filtering up from your own childhood, through your child rearing. But it is true that, sure, we could talk about what people see online. But frankly, real life is enough of a sandbox, if you will, for us to be able to show our kids that it's who you are that matters, not the things you have and all the rest. I think we're so quick, generally speaking, to point to all the ways in which we and our kids are inundated with imagery of all this stuff. But this lesson applies independent of that. It has nothing. Sure, it is amplified by that, but it really has nothing to do with that. It's really about, and frankly, all of the lessons are really about in real life, experience, and connection. I laughed at stay up and watch the sunrise. You can sleep on the plane home. And I laughed because, well, that is so beautiful. In my family, our value is sleep. So to the point where we sometimes miss the sunrise, but we're well-rested and we feel better. So I was laughing out loud like, what would my version of that be? And it would probably be, go to bed at seven o'clock if you want to. It's like same coin, different side. You know, you do you.

Speaker 3:
[36:13] Yes. And it is ironic coming from, we're in early morning television households. So Willie and I are in our bed. I laugh that we're like those grandparents from Willie Wonka who just live in the bed. You know, in the living room, like all the grandparents are just in that bed.

Speaker 2:
[36:28] I would have no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 3:
[36:31] I'm like, last night, I'm in my bed with the weighted blanket with my book, and I looked over and I was like, damn it, it's only 8.30. And I'm like, it's too soon to be in my bed with my book. So I'm either that person, or if I'm on the trip, stay up till the sunrise, you can sleep on the plane home. So I deliberately put, you could sleep on the plane home to imply that you're out on an adventure and that those two sides of you are welcome, and you should honor both of them. So anyone that knows me on the big party nights of my life is like, oh yeah, no, she's the last one to go to bed.

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Speaker 1:
[38:30] Visit samsclub.com/yesand for details. Christina, it's so funny because I got to the page that says costume parties are more fun. I was literally just talking to one of my kids about how often in college we got dressed up. Like in costume. I mean, I also just received some pictures of myself in said costumes from a friend who just turned 50 and we just celebrated her 50th birthday. She sent me some shocking photos of me. Shocking just like unflattering and ugly, not like me naked or anything like that. I was trying to describe to my kids what it was about. I mean, I also went to a women's college and so we were constantly just playing dress up, but as 20-year-olds instead of as four-year-olds, guys would come to visit us because it was our place and they would come. I was trying to describe it to my kids and they couldn't get, they were trying to understand it because it was so different from their reality. But when we started talking about dressing up and costumes, that they could get, they could enjoy the concept of being someone else or something else for a little while and being in community that way. It was like you read my mind. But I'm wondering how kids push back because they get to college, and you have yet to experience this, and we're going to talk about what your plan for launching your daughter is. But they get to college and there's lots and lots of fun. There's also more pressure and new stressors and all of that. I'm wondering if there's lessons in the book that you're thinking about for your daughter in that way, sort of like the ongoing, yes, achievement is important, but the sort of ongoing prioritization in life.

Speaker 3:
[40:39] There are a bunch of lessons in the book are about like relationship dynamics. I don't mean specifically romantic relationships, but just how you operate and move through the world. Again, I tried to distill these down into their most simple rudimentary expression. So one of them is people or friends are like magnets, some attract, some don't let it be. It's actually hilarious because magnets will all attract if you just turn them the right way, but just humor me on this one. This is something that I had said to my son. My son, by the way, is 16 when this airs and I am wearing his gaming headphones. So if anyone's watching the clips of this interview, like out where you guys might share a video, this is me and my son's gaming headphones. So I'm in his mindset right now. But the magnet thing felt like when he was younger, a way for me to be like, if it's not matching, just move on, let it be. Stop fighting it, stop stating the obvious, right? Just move along. And so that one is such for like a young person, but it really isn't. I feel like as adults, like we need to just let it be. If you don't match with somebody, there's plenty of room for them to be happy and for you to be happy. Just let it be. And then another that like, I had a lot of things written down for this other book, right? About the Saturday night, but one that did make it in here is that your phone is not a substitute for a real life friend when you're walking home at night. And to me, that's like this dependence on your device as some kind of safety tool that you have is wrong. Because when you're alone walking home at night, and by the way, this is me at 50 years old walking home from dinner in Manhattan if I'm in the city, the phone is not a friend. The friend is the person that you trust, who you go to the party with, and you have a plan for how you're going to leave at the end of the night, and you don't leave without a friend. And so, yeah, I mean, I think I'm, I'm harboring some of these fears about the way that they'll go out into the world, and the decisions that they'll make. And just, you know, remember your phone is not a friend. A friend is a real person.

Speaker 2:
[43:05] I mean, that's a whole book. It's a really profound statement, actually. Because for our generation, the phone enhanced friendship, right? I mean, certainly the one attached to the wall did. And for their generation, in many ways, it has redefined that word, that concept. You friend someone, right? It was just sort of a fascinating. It's really so interesting. So what is your plan? I mean, you are on the precipice. You're right there. You've done more deep thinking than many in advance. Certainly more than I did. People always say like, are you ready? How's it going to feel? And you're like, yeah. But you've really done the thinking because you've gone through this process. Do you have words of wisdom to your future self? Is there anything that you want to hold true to so that when you get the first phone call, that there's a bad day or a heartbreak or a let down or fill in the blank with whatever it might be? Is there anything that you're holding onto now that's going to steal you for what you know is coming, which is an incredible growth trajectory that's going to be bumpy?

Speaker 3:
[44:32] Yeah. I think what I put under my pillow at night is that, I think I will get that call.

Speaker 2:
[44:40] Oh, I love that.

Speaker 3:
[44:42] So that to me is enough, that I think that I'll get the call. I think that we've built that relationship where I'll get the call, but I think also there's two lessons from the book that resonate with what you're saying. One is, you will break a heart, someone will break yours. When this happens, I will be here. I know that's going to happen, and I'll be here when it does to support you. But then there's the flip side lesson, I think it's 42, is figure it out, you're 100 percent capable. I feel like those two things, either it's a heartbreak or it's a bad test or it's a bad this or it's a bad that, but it's also figure it out, you're 100 percent capable. I think adults need that reminder. I hope that not just saying it, but demonstrating that and modeling that for my kids will remind them that they are capable.

Speaker 1:
[45:45] I mean, it's so funny because sometimes you get another kind of phone call, which is like your kid is out somewhere and having a great time, and for whatever reason, they decide to FaceTime you. This happened to me this year with my freshmen. I was like in bed, in, I wear a nightgown and my hair is crazy and I have my mouth guard in. But when your kid FaceTimes you, you answer like I was asleep, you pick up because you don't know what kind of call it is. It could be any kind of call and I answer and I must have looked like someone out of a horror movie, like someone who lived in the attic or something like that, and I answer and I'm like smile. He's like, hey, and he's like with eight girls, and they're like, hi, Mrs. Bennett. I'm there with my mouth guard. I must have looked absolutely bananas, but I was like, I'll take it. I'll take the good phone call, because you never know when the bad phone call is coming, or the phone call that really needs you, and I think that the idea that you've built enough trust and connection with your kid before they left in order to be able to receive that phone call is such an important message. The funny thing is, Christina, I find and Cara, I don't know if you find this, I hear more from my kids when they're away at school than I do when they're living under my roof. From one. Yes, they're gone and I hear from them constantly, and then they're home and I'm like, hello. I'm in the kitchen.

Speaker 2:
[47:29] Christina, hot tip to have a dog.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[47:34] Yes. When you don't hear from them, when they don't do the outreach, the surest way to hear from them is to send a picture of the dog. They will not respond to the e-mail saying, hey, did you pay your invoice for the semester? Hey, did you register for classes? Just checking, making sure. But they will absolutely respond to the dog.

Speaker 3:
[48:02] Okay. Good tip. I'm going to write that in the back of the book, number 51.

Speaker 1:
[48:05] They won't respond to e-mails, so don't bother e-mailing them.

Speaker 2:
[48:09] E-mail is like a horse and buggy situation for them.

Speaker 1:
[48:13] You can send them a screenshot of the e-mail you sent them and say, hey, can you take care of this, please?

Speaker 3:
[48:20] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[48:20] Are you a crier, Christina? Are we preparing? Okay. Is Willie a crier?

Speaker 3:
[48:26] Yes, but I'm worse. My family, they'll set their little timer, as soon as I open my mouth to be like, okay, here she goes. She made it 10 seconds. And that's my extended family, not just like the family in this house.

Speaker 1:
[48:42] The Krolls, my whole side of the family cries. And then Roger cries more than anybody, but not his side of the family, which is why he has to live in America because no one in England cries. This is so out of character. He had to move across the world, but he's a silent crier and he wears glasses.

Speaker 2:
[49:03] He is a silent crier.

Speaker 1:
[49:04] So the tears just stream down his face and he wipes them, but you don't notice them. I am not a silent, I get choked up and then it's full body cry. So hot tip, when you're leaving her at school that first weekend, you do the drop off, you've done the move in and the target run, and you'd have her having a final meal together, say goodbye to her not in the restaurant where half of the freshman class is also sitting and having a meal with their parents. Go find, go around a corner, go down the block and around a corner to say goodbye because my son looked at me his freshman year, he could see the tears were starting to fall and he was like, check and then we pay the check and he pulls me down the block and around the corner and then he opens his arms and I literally just fall and he's like Willy size. I just fall into his arms and I hold on to him and I think Roger had to cut his shirt so he could remove me from my son's body because I was holding on to him so far. But here's what I'll tell you for all of the criers out there. Now, whenever I leave him, if I'm wearing sunglasses or I'm not looking, he looks to make sure that I am crying. He wants the crying. He wants to make sure the tears are there. He's going to make fun of me. But also, it's a sign to him that I, I mean, of course, I love him, but it's a sign of how much I'm missing.

Speaker 2:
[50:41] If you're not a crier, it's okay.

Speaker 1:
[50:43] Yeah, because your kids know that.

Speaker 2:
[50:45] Because your kid's bright. It's whatever your authentic self is. I'm not a crier and I'm not a crier. I'm somewhere in the middle of that yardstick. When I was walking away, Vanessa had given me her hot tip. So we were literally around a corner, gave my big hug. The tears started to flow a little silent, a little bit of, right?

Speaker 1:
[51:07] I do the body shake. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[51:09] It was very subtle. It was very, and I was like, I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry. That's kind of cry. Then I was walking away. I was three steps out and she was waiting for me to turn around and say something because that's what I do. I turned around and Vanessa, I don't know if I've told you this, but I was like, no pills, no powder.

Speaker 1:
[51:33] She's like, okay, mom. Oh my God. So Roger's version of that is always make good decisions.

Speaker 2:
[51:42] Make good choices.

Speaker 1:
[51:43] Having now raised two young men well into young adulthood, I would say they did not always make good choices. But wait, there's a great lesson in the book, which is, I mean, besides ordered dessert with a scoop of vanilla, which of course I love, take care of your space, take care of your things, take care of your body. You only get one. And I was like, oh my God. Yes. I mean, they can't necessarily hear it or take it on board in that moment, but it's like one of those things. If you keep saying it, it will eventually get in. Christina, what's your favorite lesson? Maybe we can close with the one that's like sits deepest in your heart.

Speaker 3:
[52:24] I think for me, it's use your words. They're your superpower. And I think like, because I think that sort of defines the way I show up in my little corner of the world. I always say this didn't make it in the book, but most of us are not going to change the world, but we can leave a positive footprint on our corner of the world. And so when I think about my little piece of the world and the way I've left my mark, it is always with my words. And so, and I do really believe that your words are your superpower in a way, and I like to describe them that way, as opposed to describing them as something that could be weaponized, right? Like, flip it. It's so easy to use your words, and we just did it here today. But it's so easy to do it. I mean, when you're walking into Starbucks and you, you know, the person walking out and you just say, you look great today. Like, watch what happens when you do that, right? And somebody...

Speaker 1:
[53:34] You're the woman in the bathroom who complements my outfit. And I'm like, done. I'm going to feel great for a month after that. I'm probably her.

Speaker 3:
[53:42] Yeah. And it's not like glitter and rainbows every day, all day. But I think you, you know, use your words. They're super power. And that's what the two of you are doing. That's what you're doing with your knowledge and your expertise and your ability to connect and your empathy and your you're both so smart. And, you know, so I admire that about you. And I think that's what you're doing. So cheers to you.

Speaker 1:
[54:05] And like, it's so nice to be complimented on your own podcast. It's like, why not?

Speaker 2:
[54:13] Right back at you, Christina, in every single way.

Speaker 1:
[54:17] So for people watching on YouTube, Before You Fly Away, it's so beautiful. It's like everything about it is so lovely. I'm going to go now put it on the coffee table in our family room. I didn't want to do it before we recorded because I knew it would be chocolate fingerprints all over it within an hour. I encourage people who are on the precipice of transition, of launching, of kids coming home and figuring out what's next, all of that. It's so beautiful and heartfelt, and it just feels nice in your hands. There's some books that just feel so good in your hand. Christina, we can't wait to hear how it goes. Come back and visit us with all your lessons learned and no joke, if you want to write the Before You Go Out on Saturday Night book, let us know. We're totally available to help with that one.

Speaker 3:
[55:10] Yeah, that might be a fun collaboration. Thank you guys so much. Thank you both.

Speaker 1:
[55:16] Thank you so much for listening. You can email us with questions, feedback, or episode requests at podcast at lessawkward.com.

Speaker 2:
[55:26] If you want to learn more about what we do to make this whole stage of life less awkward for everyone involved, our parent membership, our school health ed curriculum, our keynote talks, and more are all at lessawkward.com.