transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It is our round one recap show. If you guys would like, you can go see us talk about every single pick of round one on The Athletic Football Show's YouTube channel, where we did our four-ish hour live stream yesterday with me, Dane, Derrik, Bruce Feldman breaking down every single pick of round one. So if you want to see us talk about your team a little bit more length, that is available to you. But because we didn't want to drop a four-hour show into your podcast feed overnight, we are doing a little bit of a recap show today, hitting some just categories, superlatives, little ways to bucket all of the picks in the first round. Favorite picks, favorite fits. The Butte of Mike workout for us gambles in the first round. Biggest surprises. What the fuck were they thinking? We just spent 20 minutes talking about Ty Simpson. Just letting you know right now that's exactly how this works. The Costco All-Stars, the teams that bought in bulk and had more than one first round pick. So that's what we did today. Hit a bunch of different categories, breaking down a vast majority, I think 30 of the players taken in the first 32 picks, we hit on on this show. So let's get to it with our first round recap right now. Well, the first round of the 2026 draft is in the books. We just did a four-hour stream that you can watch on The Athletic Football Show YouTube channel. If you want to go back and hear us talk about every single pick that was made in the first round, we are not going to talk about every single pick on this show, Dane, but we are going to talk about the most notable picks from the first round of the 2026 draft.

Speaker 2:
[01:38] And I mean, there weren't as many trades as we thought maybe. Big trades, a lot of mini trades.

Speaker 1:
[01:43] Yeah, a lot of mini trades at the back end.

Speaker 2:
[01:44] Yeah, and so maybe not the chaos we expected, but a lot of fun fits, a lot of surprises, a lot of, I didn't think about that, but in a fun way. And so plenty to talk about on this plot.

Speaker 1:
[01:58] Got the same crew that we had for the live stream with us right now. Bruce Feldman is back, Derrik Klassen is here, Dave Helman is here. We're going to go through a bunch of different categories that hopefully will best summarize what happened during the first round here. We're just going to start in a very simple place. Dave, what was your favorite pick from round one of the 2026 NFL Draft?

Speaker 3:
[02:18] I can think of one. I'm going to let Derrik do it, so I'm not the Cowboys' homer all the time, because there is a Cowboys' pick I really loved. But another one, if I'm pivoting away from that. And he's not, I don't even love him the way that some other people do, but we harped on this team heading into the first round as being in kind of a bad spot for where they were in the round and what they needed. What the hell are the Tampa Bay Buccaneers going to do? How are they going to get to address their needs? And to be at 15 in the round, and just let Ruben Bain fall right into your lap. And he's got historically short arms. He is a one of one, not necessarily in a good way player, because we just don't see guys like this get drafted in the first round of the NFL Draft. And for the Bucs to hang out there and have the face of the national runner up in college football, one of the most dominant edge rushers in the college game last year, Ruben Bain, just plop right into their lap at their biggest need. And you're at a spot at 15 where, okay, like your concerns about the length are a little lessened if you're not taking them in the top 10. I just great, great fun player at a very good value spot. I just I think they're just one of the biggest winners because I don't think they could have dreamed that up on Thursday morning.

Speaker 1:
[03:42] You know when you're having a really bad dream, like a truly like really bad dream and it feels incredibly real and you wake up and you realize that it was only a dream and the relief that comes with that, that's how Jason Light feels right now. Among all the GMs in the NFL right now, after the way that tonight ended, I think there are guys that got better players than Ruben Bain. I think there are teams that may be better off than the Bucks are for having gotten Ruben Bain. I don't think a single general manager should feel better about the way the first round went than Jason Light feels right now with Ruben Bain falling to them at 15 based on the current construction of their roster. I truly believe that.

Speaker 2:
[04:19] And you can see it in his face. When they showed the war room, when they made the pick, I mean, he was fist pumping, out of his seat, hugging. Very excited about that. Because yeah, it took a certain set of circumstances. It took the Bengals trading away for Dexter Lawrence and for the Cowboys to do what they did, and the Miami to do what they did. So it took a set of circumstances that is, I don't know how to put odds on it, but one in 50, one in 100, I don't know, for that to play out that way. And it did. So I think, yeah, they've got to be happy tonight.

Speaker 1:
[04:52] Teams do this. Teams do all these simulations, and that's why you see teams get aggressive with trades, because they have so much information that you pump into a system. It's like, we have a X percent chance that this player will fall to us at this pick. So if we don't feel good about that percentage, that's when we have to move up. I would love to talk to someone in Tampa and figure out what the percentage chance was as they went through all of that. The Ruben Bayne would have been there for them at 15. I think it was probably pretty small.

Speaker 3:
[05:17] I'll make that a goal for the next few days. I bet I could get an answer.

Speaker 1:
[05:20] Dane, your favorite pick from round one of the 2026 NFL Draft was what?

Speaker 2:
[05:26] I mean, there were other picks in the top 10 that I could say, but I'll just go with Chris Johnson to the Dolphins, just because he is my favorite player in this draft. It's a pick that I mocked in my final mock draft. Thinking about that fit with Halfley and how that would work out. For a team that is revamping that roster, this is the type of culture guy and talent guy that you want to build around. And so just love that pick for both sides, the Dolphins and for Chris Johnson.

Speaker 4:
[05:57] Do we want to jump straight into mine? Because Dave sent me up a little bit already. Caleb Down is short and sweet.

Speaker 3:
[06:04] It's a great answer.

Speaker 1:
[06:05] It's a great answer.

Speaker 4:
[06:07] Because it's not just that you get a player that I think for most people is like fourth, fifth, sixth on the board. So you're getting him at a little bit of a value in theory at 11. But also just we talked about so much like the way that this defense is going to operate. Them not really having anybody in the spine of that defense. Obviously they signed Jalen Thompson but don't really have linebackers there. They needed another safety to get a guy like him who was just so smart and I would be stunned if he's anything less than like a B minus NFL player. Lights up.

Speaker 5:
[06:36] I'm going to go and I'm going to not trying to suck up to the host. But I think the Bears should be over the moon that Dylan Theinman fell to them at 25. I mean there were guys I talked to who are DB coaches in the NFL who actually thought wouldn't have shocked them if he went in front of Caleb Downs. I liked him that much. Not a knock on Caleb Downs. I mean really good tackler, great range, super smart, really athletic. I think he fills a big need. I think this is a huge get for the Bears.

Speaker 1:
[07:08] We're going to do a category a little bit later. This is the pairing you didn't know you wanted because you just hadn't envisioned it a lot and that was me with Theinman and the Bears.

Speaker 4:
[07:14] And you'd been thinking about the Bears a lot.

Speaker 1:
[07:16] I just didn't think that that way he would be there. I mean like one of the more popular mock picks in the entire process was Theinman to the things at 18. And I just assume he would be off the board by the time the Bears picked at 25. And we talked about this on the stream. I understand looking at the structure of the Bears defense last year, the skill set that they needed and thinking edge, defensive line, defensive line, they need pass rush pop. They still need a starting safety. You can potentially wait for that on the second round. But I think Theinman is a good enough talent that it tips the scales a little bit. And now when you have him and Kobe Bryant now on the back end of your defense, you've completely transformed the skill sets that you have back there in a single off season. And I think that they clearly were intentionally trying to do that. And so again, I hadn't thought a lot about the pairing because I just assumed he'd be gone. But they absolutely needed another safety before this draft was over. I just assumed it was going to happen in the second round.

Speaker 2:
[08:07] Ryan Poules probably did too. I think it was just to see Theinman fall in their laps. Too good to be true. And I don't know how many scenarios they worked out. Like we talked about with the Bucks and in Bain, where Theinman would fall to them. But I can't say. Talking to teams, they really thought Theinman was going to go top 20. If not to the Vikings, the Panthers at 19 maybe, another team in there. So 25, that's a pretty good value.

Speaker 1:
[08:32] I would say that Bain and Downs are probably my two favorite ones, like you guys mentioned. The one that in the moment when they were on the clock and this player was still available, I was like, it has to be this guy, was Sonny Stiles of Washington. When you look at their depth chart and you just look at the skill sets that they had at Off-Ball Linebacker, it was one skill set. Those two guys in Frankie Louvue and Leo Chanal, it just, I like them as players. They are parts of good defenses if utilized correctly, but they needed somebody that brings what Sonny Stiles does to that linebacker room. For a team that didn't have that sort of player and for him to fall to them at seven, that was one where when they were on the clock and he was available, I just think they could go any other direction.

Speaker 4:
[09:16] And Stiles is just one of those like, who is the heart of the Washington defense right now?

Speaker 1:
[09:21] They don't really have that guy.

Speaker 4:
[09:22] Mike Sayner still maybe? Like if you're just like in terms of energy, like quality of player, like maybe Sayner still. And after that, it's just a lot of guessing and maybe like a couple of free agents they signed. Bringing in Sonny Stiles literally playing in the heart of your defense, a guy who I think is going to be able to call it has flexibility. Like I just, that pick was pretty lights out.

Speaker 2:
[09:40] And with Jeremiah Love and Colonel Tate off the board, it made their decision I think pretty easy at that point.

Speaker 1:
[09:45] I would have been surprised if they had gone any other direction there.

Speaker 3:
[09:48] That's a valid point because and it's not a criticism because, Dane, you know I love Sonny Stiles. I mean, I tried to get you to say he should go number two overall at one point in this process.

Speaker 1:
[09:57] I remember that.

Speaker 3:
[09:58] But I, you know, my concern, I guess, would just be, it's a long wait to add a weapon to the offense now for Jaden Daniels because they don't pick again until 71. And that would be my concern. But you're right that Jeremiah Love and Carnell Tate weren't there. And they could have taken Jordan Tyson. We don't know how they felt about that. And so my concerns are a little bit offset by the fact that those two guys going made the decision that much easier. And Sonny Stiles is a phenomenal player.

Speaker 1:
[10:26] How much of this is you just wanting the best for Jaden Daniels?

Speaker 3:
[10:28] Most of it. Okay. And obviously, I'm a little, I am compromised by where I went to school. But I would say the same thing. And I did say the same thing about Cam Ward and how excited I was for Carnell Tate to go there. Tyler Shuck as well, he winds up with Jordan Tyson. I'm just a firm believer that if the young, cheap quarterback is everything, then that is where I'm skewing toward adding my resources. And I probably could have been talked into Jordan Tyson being that pick. But you talk about the durability concerns. I don't blame them at all. And so like, and like I said, having arguably the best receiver and definitely the best running back, not even being an option, it makes me feel a little better about it.

Speaker 1:
[11:09] And again, we said this a little bit about the Jeremiah Love pick, which we'll get to during the stream. But I think that the psychology of the decision makers here also has to play into it. It's a factor. And I just don't think Dan Quinn can walk away from this season with another bad defense. Like if Washington has an offense this year that's like, hey, you know, they could use another weapon. They were the 14th best offense in the league with David Blau. That is a year that this coaching staff could survive. If Washington walks away from this season with the 26th best defense in the NFL, they're all gone, every single one of them. And so I think them fixing that side of the ball, even if it's just out of self-preservation, I am not surprised to see them address it as early as they did. No, I get that. Let's get to a category we're calling, congratulations Michael Beller, the Costco All-Stars, the teams that shopped in bulk tonight and had more than one first round pick. Just go through the class that kind of stuck out to you the most of all of those teams that had more than one pick tonight, Dane. Who are you going to start with?

Speaker 2:
[12:10] It's got to be the Browns.

Speaker 1:
[12:11] It sure does.

Speaker 2:
[12:12] Yeah, I think we knew coming in, tackle, wide receiver. Would they switch up the order? I think ideal scenario is exactly how it played out. They were able to trade back. They got a third round pick, right? Went trading back with the Chiefs. So not only do you gain another third, but you still take the player that you were going to take at six. And we heard Andrew Berry call him a franchise left tackle in his call to Spencer when they announced the pick. And so that says a lot right there. But regardless, you feel great about him as an offensive lineman. And then they come back and get Casey Concepcion at pick 24, a dynamic weapon who doesn't matter who's at quarterback. He's going to immediately upgrade what you're doing on that side of the ball. So talk about an overhaul on offense with two from picks without getting the quarterback. That's still a question mark, but they were able to answer two huge needs in two big ways.

Speaker 1:
[13:11] I'm curious. I didn't ask you this in real time, but I want to ask you now. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. The fall, the gap between Carnell Tate and Jordan Tyson, let's put them in one tier and Casey Concepcion, is that gap smaller to you than the gap between Spencer Finale and Max Ahanichor?

Speaker 2:
[13:31] Probably. I think it's a little complicated with Concepcion because he had the knee. So what's going on with that? Some of his interviews didn't go great. Some teams weren't thrilled with that. So there's more stuff over there with Concepcion. But on talent-wise, I don't think that there's a massive gap between that top tier and where Concepcion is.

Speaker 1:
[13:52] Because those are the two doors they could have gone through, right? You could have gone receiver first and then tackle. You could have gone tackle first and then receiver. And just from where I'm sitting, and again, I'm compromised here as a Casey Concepcion lover. But I'm more comfortable with the door they walked through than the alternative.

Speaker 2:
[14:07] And I think it's because you felt, we knew that that offensive tackle run was coming. And so, and they would have been wiped out at 24, right? I mean, I guess Caleb Lomu. But Lomu went 28th because, you know, for reasons where Spencer Fano went where he did for other reasons. So yeah, I think they went about it the right way because wide receiver had a better chance of stretching a little bit. Whereas we knew those tackles were going to come off the board.

Speaker 1:
[14:31] So I would agree with Dane's take about the Browns.

Speaker 3:
[14:34] Dane's the Ohio guy. I get that. They just, the Browns happen to take your two favorite players in the first round of the track.

Speaker 1:
[14:40] Yes, it's a pretty simple one. Like I loved both of those guys coming into it. There are a couple others I liked. We'll see if you guys get to them. If not, we can talk about them. But Dave, your favorite or the Costco run that you enjoyed the most from a team tonight was what?

Speaker 3:
[14:54] I loved the picks and even more, I loved the maneuvering that they did. I mean, the Cowboys came home with their shopping cart completely full. I mean, you get Caleb Downs. They did, they actually traded up. They were a little aggressive to do that, which I actually applaud because I got to imagine sitting in that war room, watching the picks go, must have felt like running through a minefield. And so to get to pick 11 in Miami's there, I don't blame them for just saying, we can't be doing this. Who knows who's coming up to try to do the same thing? And I think it cost them two fifth round picks, which whatever.

Speaker 2:
[15:30] But they got it back, right? Because they traded.

Speaker 3:
[15:32] And then that's my point. Remember, this is a team that doesn't have a two because of the Quinn and Williams trade. So after you move up to get Caleb Downs, who I'm telling you right now, he was the guy of the realistic options. He was the guy for Dallas. Christian Parker is going to do a ton of stuff with him to get him. And then you get two fours back by falling back with Philadelphia. So then you get Malachi Lawrence, who is a guy that they think the world of. They had a great great on him. Come in, probably be a situational edge rusher off the jump. You don't need him to be one of your main two edge rushers right at the start. And you pick up two fourth round picks, which now between pick 92 and then the two fours, you could use that to move up again on Friday if you want to, or you could just make that many more picks to get the two players they did and add some meaningful capital on top of that. I thought it was a fantastic night for the Cowboys.

Speaker 4:
[16:27] I like the Cowboys. The Browns were tempting for me. I really like Casey Concepcion as well. Giants were tempting as well, but knocking them is wrong, but it's like you got two top 10 picks. It should be easy to come away with two pretty good ones.

Speaker 1:
[16:39] I really like what they did.

Speaker 4:
[16:40] Especially in Arville Reese Falling, that's a steal for them obviously. I love what the Giants did, and I probably would have made those exact same picks, so I like that. I'm picking the Kansas City Chiefs. Montzori DeLane is awesome, and everyone knows how much I like Peter Woods. I didn't post a big board the way everyone else does, but I have it here, and I've been crossing names off on the list as the draft went on. These were two top 10 players on my board. I was way higher on Peter Woods than a lot of other people, and I had DeLane up in that range.

Speaker 1:
[17:08] What do you think is the best-case scenario for Peter Woods? I'm curious, having him that high, what do you think is the high of the NFL?

Speaker 4:
[17:12] Byron Murphy. I think he could be like Byron Murphy-ish. Murphy is a tiny bit smaller and probably a little bit more explosive, but I think just that style of player.

Speaker 5:
[17:24] That was the DeLane guys. It was kind of a poor man's Byron Murphy, but where he's not making the plays where Byron Murphy was finishing.

Speaker 4:
[17:31] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5:
[17:32] I think that was the part.

Speaker 4:
[17:33] If they can get one or two years of him just like figuring out a way to finish those plays, I do think it could look something like that.

Speaker 3:
[17:39] I deeply admire your willingness to say it with your chest. Byron Murphy is awesome.

Speaker 4:
[17:43] Byron Murphy is awesome, by the way. Yeah, that is not like I think Byron Murphy is like a lower tier player, and so I'm comping Woods up. I just think that Woods could truly be that good. So to get him at 29, pairing him with Chris Jones and Kyger's Tonga, I just, that was a defense that so badly needed an injection of young, good talent, and Delaney Woods to me is about as good as they were going to do.

Speaker 5:
[18:05] I'm going to jump on the Giants. That was just the fact that RL. Reese fell to five. You look at what they got, they got like a bunch of werewolves on defense now. I think that's awesome. I like Maui Noah. I think that from the people I talked to down in Miami, they just talked about how much better he's gotten since he's been there. He's a young offensive lineman. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being a really good right tackle down the road. Yes, they're two top ten picks. I just think that to me, like, we could find out RL. Reese is the best player in the draft like two years from now. I would not at all be surprised. And to get him at five, I was like, oof, no knock on David Bailey. I think he's really good, but just the way it fell, I mean, I was surprised, but I get why the Titans did what they did it for, because you got to take care of your first overall pick. Still, good for the Giants.

Speaker 2:
[19:03] Two of the youngest players in the draft, period. That's, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:07] I also think that with both of those guys, and with Maui, no, it was more just curiosity about where he would be best. With Reese, there were questions about where he would play. And with the Giants specifically, it's kind of easy to envision the roles that make the most sense for them as rookies, even if there was kind of a cloud of what that would exactly be. With Maui, no, he could just play right guard while Jermaine Luminor is there. He can play guard, like, it just, everything about his profile tells you he can play guard. If he moves to right tackle in two years, great. But now you look at that offensive line, it's like, that makes sense. Like, that really does track. And with Reese, if he's going to play off ball linebacker to start and be a situational pass rusher, if you look at the rest of the Giants defense, it's like, that makes sense. Like, it's for both guys, that maybe there was a little bit of like, how does this puzzle piece fit? For the Giants specifically, I think it fits pretty well.

Speaker 3:
[19:55] And I don't want to, I'm not trying to act like it's easy to replace Dexter Lawrence, but by dealing with the O-line and getting somebody like Reese who can handle a couple roles, at least early in his career, I think it kind of frees him up to hunt for a D tackle. They still have the 37th pick on Friday, last time I checked.

Speaker 2:
[20:15] He's not going to get past the Raiders, I don't think, but so yeah.

Speaker 3:
[20:19] Those picks address a lot of their concerns and it frees them up to potentially do that in round two or three.

Speaker 1:
[20:27] Bruce alluded to it. I really like what the Titans did. I mean, to get Karnel Tated for and then to get Keldrick Falk all the way back down there at 31, I just, not only the positions that they needed, and I think they absolutely need another receiver, they need it in edge, but it just, Keldrick Falk is one of those players, and there's a lot of these guys that we can talk about here, but the players that you just see a little bit differently because you're like, oh, that hits my brain in such a pleasing way. And the Keldrick Falk thing is like, oh, you just see it. You just see what he's supposed to be within that defense. He can slide inside in certain situations. Like, that is a swing at 31. We talked about him at 11, and whether it was a worthwhile bet at 11 for Keldrick Falk to go. And so for the Titans to get him with a 31st pick, that is a swing I take every single time.

Speaker 3:
[21:11] I think the Titans are the most apropos team for the category name, the Costco All-Stars, because if you've ever gone to Costco, you're like, are we running low on ranch dressing? And you come home with two 60-ounce bottles of ranch dressing. You're like, we're good until Christmas. And that's what I feel like the Titans did with arguably the best receiver in the draft and just this monster 6'5, 280-pound defensive lineman. They went all out.

Speaker 4:
[21:39] Well, because aren't they the only team who made two picks who did not come into tonight with two picks? Like they traded back into it. Like all the other teams that had to already had to coming into the night. So they truly did walk into Costco and were like, we're coming out with a bunch of shit.

Speaker 3:
[21:52] I don't want to have to think about my condiments for calendar year.

Speaker 1:
[21:56] How do we feel about the Jets?

Speaker 2:
[21:57] I said, we do have to mention the Jets because they were the only team that come on with three players. And obviously I would have gone Reese over Bailey at two, but Bailey's a good player. That pass rush is better. And then to come away with those two pass catchers is really interesting. The Jets are going to be more interesting to watch. I know that. And so it's both sides of the ball. But to get Omar Cooper Jr. and then Kenyon Sadiq, that fit will be really interesting with Mason Taylor and how they use them. How are they going to deploy them across the formation? How is that just, I don't know. I'm fascinated to see how it all works out.

Speaker 1:
[22:33] I learned a lesson last year when watching what happened with the Bears in the draft. Where it was like, how is this all supposed to fit together? And like, what are you going to do with like Luther Burden and DJ Moore on the same offense? And I really did hem and haw about it. And then at the end of the day, it was just like, who gives a shit? Like the players are good. Put a lot of good players in there and you'll figure it out. That's Ben Johnson. Is it?

Speaker 2:
[22:56] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[22:56] And then so that's my concern with the Jets is just like, it's a little harder to just like go with God, guys. You'll figure it out when you don't have that sort of inherent faith in the coaching staff. And so that's my concern is that their redundancies and how the pieces all fit together, maybe it's just more of an issue with that team than it might be for a team like the Bears that got away with it.

Speaker 2:
[23:16] Yeah. I mean, it's the Ben Johnson of it all makes you feel better where with the Jets, it's very much a mystery box at this point.

Speaker 1:
[23:23] All right. Before we move on, let's take our first quick break. All right. Let's get to the moments that were maybe a little bit confounding in tonight's draft, the what the f**k were they thinking stretch of the program here. I think we can all just collectively, Nate, you in a good way, us in a maybe more skeptical way.

Speaker 3:
[23:46] Oh, yeah. Let's do this.

Speaker 1:
[23:47] Start this discussion with Ty Simpson going 13th overall to the Los Angeles rims.

Speaker 2:
[23:53] I mean, we could have the argument about or debate, did they even have to do this in terms of drafting? If they really wanted to come away with Ty Simpson, did they have to do it at 13? I mean, you could have traded back, you could have done, I think, a little maneuvering. It's just really interesting how they said, we don't care, we'll take them here. And to your point, you mentioned this, Robert, in the moment, but the idea that they would want to address a win-now window and get better for right now instead of focusing on the future. This felt like a Mac Jones pick to me. Like, just when the Patriots drafted Mac in the mid-teens when they did it in that draft, that's kind of how I feel about this pick.

Speaker 1:
[24:39] But they need to start in quarterback.

Speaker 2:
[24:41] Right.

Speaker 1:
[24:41] The Rams don't.

Speaker 2:
[24:42] Yes, yes, 100%. I guess I'm comparing the players more so than the situations, but if the Rams didn't take them at 13, who else was going to take them? I don't know. We'll never know if the Cardinals would have traded up into the late first and maybe drafted them. Who knows? But it just felt like a pick they didn't need to make at that point.

Speaker 4:
[25:03] And I also, these teams, I think in general, like every rookie quarterback would be better off sitting. It's just the reality is that we don't end up in a lot of situations where that is going to happen. And so usually it only ends up happening in these situations where a team has an older quarterback, they have the luxury of drafting a year ahead because they are good franchises generally. Last two times we've really seen this where the Packers Jordan Love and the Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes. The difference in talent between those two guys and Ty Simpson to me is large. And I think that that matters when we're trying to say like if we're going to fix this quarterback quote unquote and try to get the best out of it. Well the best out of what you were going to get out of Jordan Love is what we've seen where he's like the seventh or eighth best quarterback in the NFL. And obviously Patrick Mahomes is Patrick Mahomes. And we don't know that those are going to be the outcomes, but those are the potential outcomes you're getting when you're getting guys who are that talented with it with that kind of arm. I don't see any of that with Ty Simpson really. And that's why this to me is very confounding.

Speaker 5:
[25:58] I totally agree with Derrik. And on top of it, I'm saying he's not playing this year. If he does, something went horribly wrong. So we're talking about at best next year, at best. We know there's going to be more talented quarterbacks next year's draft. There will at least be three, there may be five or six, and they're going to play more. I mean, if you told me right now, I would take CJ Carr over him right now.

Speaker 1:
[26:26] To play devil's advocate, let's just say the Rams are picking 30 second of next year's draft. I think that's their hope, right? Is that they're in a position to draft this guy now that they will not be in next year. And that's why they were willing to do this.

Speaker 5:
[26:38] I just think it's a, I could be wrong. I just think it's a bad bet.

Speaker 1:
[26:42] I don't like it on a bunch of different quiet levels. I, for me, it's surprising to see them do this. Because I think you could make a serious argument that it is a prudent decision. It is a responsible choice. We think that this guy can be a long-term starter. We're picking 13th in a way that we never would. We don't know what's gonna happen moving forward. We would rather protect and insulate ourselves for the future when we have this opportunity. I get that line of thinking. I'm just surprised they were the team that abided by it.

Speaker 4:
[27:12] Yeah, they're always just driving 90 miles an hour doing whatever they want.

Speaker 1:
[27:16] For a team that so often is willing to be like, nah, f*** this. We're gonna do the thing that is shiny and aggressive and we're not gonna care about what the responsible decision is. To see them do it on that side I think is surprising. On the other side of it is, it's not even just the opportunity cost for missing out on the player you could draft 13th overall and not being able to fold him into your roster. It's also like a dynamics thing.

Speaker 4:
[27:39] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[27:39] Like it's one of those things where you have a coach and a quarterback who have a phenomenal relationship. They've had that phenomenal relationship. You could tell that team believed that they were supposed to win the Super Bowl last year. And so even like the choice to rock the boat with it, like Rogers won the MVP before they drafted Jordan Love. But it seemed like the vibes there were already off even when he was winning the MVP. Like it was a will they, won't they sort of thing.

Speaker 4:
[28:07] Rogers was begrudgingly the best quarterback in the NFL, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:
[28:10] It's just different with this situation in LA. And like, that's part of me, like even if it's the responsible choice, I'm just not sure I'm welcoming in this sort of elements into everything.

Speaker 3:
[28:22] That's really interesting to me. And like, I see the parallels. I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't see it that way at all. Maybe because, and remember Aaron Rogers, it sounds weird to think about now, but like Aaron Rogers had a little bit of a downturn. There was like, he did not look like an MVP quarterback right when the Packers drafted Jordan Love. And it was like, okay, like, let's get off this ride before we're not having fun anymore. Matthew Stafford just had the best season of his entire career.

Speaker 1:
[28:50] Okay, I'm sorry. I'm misremembering. I thought Jordan Love was the 2021 draft. It was the 2020 draft. And so it was after year one with Lafleur. But you were with, Lafleur was rocky.

Speaker 4:
[28:58] It was not perfect. So it was better, right?

Speaker 1:
[29:00] It's not coming off of an MVP season.

Speaker 4:
[29:02] Right.

Speaker 1:
[29:02] So that even, that makes my point even.

Speaker 3:
[29:05] But see, no, and that's why I disagree because I think of it as like Matthew Stafford and Sean McVay are conjoined at the hip. Matthew Stafford just won MVP. Ty Simpson has started 15 college games in his entire life. He is so far from being a threat to Matthew Stafford being the quarterback of the Rams that I just, I'm not, I don't think it's a Stafford dynamic.

Speaker 4:
[29:29] I think it's, are you kissing off McVay?

Speaker 3:
[29:31] I think it's, I don't even think it's about being a threat.

Speaker 1:
[29:34] I think it's Stafford being like, I could have f***ed McKay Levin. Like, how are you not maximizing my chance here?

Speaker 5:
[29:41] You're doing nothing for me to help me right now.

Speaker 1:
[29:43] Yes, I won the MVP last year. Like, why aren't we doing everything in our power to try to win the Superbowl this year? If I were Stafford, I would feel a certain type of way about that.

Speaker 3:
[29:52] My answer, and okay, now this is very analogous to Aaron Rodgers, my answer would be, I have lived with a lot of existential dread about how much longer you have for the last, like, three years. I mean, 2022 feels like a distant memory, but it sucked. Last year, we were hesitant to back the Rams because he spent the summer in an Airstream that was supposed to fix his back. And so I say, buddy, I love you. You're the best quarterback in the league coming off of last year, or, I mean, you won the MVP.

Speaker 1:
[30:24] Buck up, we're all professionals.

Speaker 3:
[30:25] Buck up, we're all professionals, and you're 38 years old. I mean, it is what it is. That's the nature of the NFL.

Speaker 1:
[30:32] We talked about Ty Simpson, Derrik. I remember the first time we talked about him. And we were trying to figure out why he would or wouldn't go in the first round. And one of the reasons that I had questions about him going in the first round is, which team in this draft would look at Ty Simpson and think, we have to leave this draft with Ty Simpson? And the teams that would have a level of urgency to add a quarterback, the Jets, the Cardinals, I just didn't think they'd be in that position, because they could wait until next year. And I'm just surprised still, that the Rams were the team that at the end of the day thought, we have to leave this draft with Ty Simpson. Even if you have an unknown next year, I still think that I think I'd be willing to walk into the unknown rather than say, we have to draft Ty Simpson 13th overall.

Speaker 3:
[31:15] It's easy to say that. And then it could potentially be hard to have to live the life of a good team that needs a quarterback. Like, where'd Kevin O'Connell come from? Maybe Kevin O'Connell is on the phone with the Rams like, this shit sucks, dude, like, get a quarterback.

Speaker 1:
[31:31] But this shit sucks in part because he picked the wrong guy in the top 15.

Speaker 3:
[31:35] That's fair. I mean, they've been on that ride for a minute, though. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[31:41] My thought is, you find the next Sam Darnold if I'm the Rams.

Speaker 4:
[31:47] Yeah, I would believe that McVay can just get that out of somebody else. Like, I just would not have made this pick.

Speaker 1:
[31:54] Did you see McVay talking about it?

Speaker 4:
[31:56] He did not seem pleased to say it was...

Speaker 1:
[31:59] I don't want to read too much into that. It's a long night for everybody. Right, of course. But he didn't seem over the moon about it.

Speaker 4:
[32:04] He didn't seem pleased. And like, I just... Even as the guy who did not love McKay-Lemon at 13 potentially, I think drafting McKay... Right. I think drafting McKay-Lemon, or whoever else you want to say it would be at 13, who could be an impact player this year, gets them closer to a Super Bowl in the next 15 years than Ty Simpson ever does. And I know that that's maybe like a ridiculous framing, but I just cannot imagine that Ty Simpson is really that level of player in that many outcomes.

Speaker 1:
[32:31] I will say this. I don't dislike Ty Simpson as much as maybe some of the people over here on the other side of the room do. I actually do think that with a year to sit in that offense specifically, I actually do have some faith that Ty Simpson can work out for the Rams. I believe that to be true.

Speaker 5:
[32:47] I don't dislike Ty Simpson. I like Ty Simpson. I don't like him more than Dante Moore, CJ Carr, Arj. I think there will be probably four or five, and once you get to that number, there aren't going to be that many teams, I don't think, who are going to need quarterbacks. So you're talking about him, he could be 22nd or something.

Speaker 3:
[33:05] Where two drafts removed from six of them going in the top 12 of the draft.

Speaker 2:
[33:09] Ty made a bet on himself that, yeah, I could go back and get that experience and potentially get better. He made a bet on himself that he'd go in the first, and if it wasn't for the Rams, he might not have been a first round pick, but he will go down in history as a first round pick as the Rams made a decision where if he's in next year's draft, for example, like you said, who knows where he goes?

Speaker 5:
[33:30] Jake Locker went pretty high in the first round. Sure.

Speaker 2:
[33:33] I mean, Christian Ponder, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[33:34] I think you can make a serious argument right now that there are seven teams that might be picking ahead of the Rams next year that need quarterbacks. Jets, Cardinals, Browns, Dolphins, Falcons, Panthers, and I had one more, Steelers.

Speaker 4:
[33:54] And there will inevitably be one that we can't see. Like, I don't think we would have foreseen like the Cardinals being a team that just completely blows up with Kyler Murray the way that they did.

Speaker 1:
[34:02] So I just, you never know either way. You just never know. And so I think that at the end of the day is the thought process here. We have no idea what the world is going to look like a year from now. We know that I think we can turn this, we know we can turn this guy or we think we can turn this guy into a viable starter in our situation. Let's do it a year early rather than a year late. I don't support it, but I can understand the thought process.

Speaker 3:
[34:25] I support it. And you know what? The team that we praise the most effusively on this show just took the guy that I like. So I'm just going to bask in it for a little while.

Speaker 1:
[34:35] I think I'm awesome now.

Speaker 4:
[34:36] And if he's not happy, I just.

Speaker 3:
[34:41] The November November and the playoffs were iffy enough that like I backed off of it. The shit he did up until Halloween was electric, and I'll stand by that. And like the if I like the first six games of Ty Simpson, I can work with that. And if he's learning from Matthew Stafford and Sean McVay, I think that is as reasonable a path forward as hoping against hope that the guy is gonna fall to you where you're picking in a year or two, or that you're gonna climb on to the Daniel Jones, Kyler Murray, I mean, it has worked before, don't get me wrong. Sam Darnold.

Speaker 1:
[35:18] It's a terrible place to be.

Speaker 3:
[35:19] It's a scary place to be.

Speaker 4:
[35:20] But I think ultimately it's, do you wanna take Ty Simpson with the 13th overall pick in your win now window, or a year or two from now be in the wilderness? I would just flatly wanna be in the wilderness. And I know that's a scary place.

Speaker 5:
[35:31] But you don't know how long the head coach is gonna be there.

Speaker 1:
[35:33] Well, now it might be not very long.

Speaker 5:
[35:35] Your head coach might not be either that long. And now all of a sudden, he's the guy who's making every offense better, and he's gone.

Speaker 3:
[35:42] McVeigh's like, shit, Fox is right down the street. Uh, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[35:47] It's a tough one. I, again, the last thing I'll say, I could absolutely see a world where Ty Simpson turns into a good quarterback in the rim situation. I think specifically what he brings to the table, and just some of those backside throws that he was willing to access at Alabama, and just you can see him getting from 1, 2, 3, in a way that you don't really often see with a lot of college quarterbacks. He's a creative player. He can do things off schedule. Like, I think there is enough to like about Ty Simpson to think that he can survive and thrive in this situation with the right seasoning. I just am not sure based on where the Rams are right now. It's the decision I would have made.

Speaker 3:
[36:20] I've got a long time until my opinions about this are going to be put to the test. So I'm just going to enjoy for the night that the LA Rams seem to share the same opinion as me.

Speaker 1:
[36:32] All right, any other what the f*** moments from tonight that we want to dig into other than the Ty Simpson pic?

Speaker 2:
[36:37] That was mine.

Speaker 3:
[36:39] All right, I'll say it if nobody else wants to. The Arizona Cardinals have no business drafting or running back. I don't care if I, Jeremiah Love's awesome. He's so cool and good. And I, pardon the pun, love him and wish him nothing but the best, but miss me with that. I mean, like, I just, they're not in a place where they needed to do that. And maybe they wouldn't have gotten good compensation trading back. But like, clearly, there was an appetite for trades in this first round. None of them were major. Yeah. But like, the Cleveland Browns are a great example. They fell back to nine before they drafted Spencer Fano. I mean, maybe the return on letting somebody come up for Arvel Reese wasn't what you wanted, but I got to assume something was there. And even if not, I still probably would have taken an offensive lineman and just said, well, you know what? It's that type of draft and I got to do what I got to do. I just don't think this team's ready for a running back.

Speaker 2:
[37:34] I don't think this qualified for me just because I'd made my peace with it already.

Speaker 3:
[37:39] Yeah. You've been saying it for a week and I've been fighting with you this whole time, telling you, please don't let this be true.

Speaker 2:
[37:45] And it got to a certain point where I said, I think it's true, guys. There's enough love or enough people around the league are saying they think it's true. And, look, I would not have done it myself, but I get it. It's kind of like what you're saying with Ty Simpson. I would not have done it. I don't necessarily support it, but I can understand their thought process and how this could end up working out. You're getting the most explosive player in the draft. And so, yeah, I would have gone a different direction as well, but I don't know. I just think anytime you're coming away with a weapon of this caliber, it's never a bad thing. I'll put it that way. It's not what I would have done, but I wouldn't call it a bad pick.

Speaker 1:
[38:25] I think there are two different ways that I would approach it. It has nothing to do with Jeremiah Love as a player, and it has nothing to do with whether Jeremiah Love can be that level of weapon in the NFL. It's two different things to me. It doesn't matter how good a running back is. Running backs are dependent on the situation that they are dropped into, and their situation is awful. It is like the offensive line.

Speaker 4:
[38:45] I don't think it's that bad.

Speaker 1:
[38:47] The offensive line needs so much work.

Speaker 4:
[38:49] It needs so much work.

Speaker 1:
[38:50] It needs so much work. The pass catchers, I like the pass catchers. They're good. The situation is so bad. Brock Powers was on the Raiders last year. Right. Brock Powers was on the Raiders last year. Ash Shenzhenty had an abysmal season from an efficiency standpoint because of the state of the Raiders offense.

Speaker 4:
[39:07] I think part of that is a little bit of like the Seattle Ryan Grubb thing of like Chip Kelly being in Las Vegas. I think there's part of that. I just don't think it will be as bad as like rookie Todd Gurley is mostly what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:
[39:17] And that is probably fair. And maybe Will Fleur is a guy that can create an ecosystem where it's not bottomed out like that one is. I just think that you are not, you do not have a situation offensively in my opinion that are running back of any quality that can transcend based on what it currently is. And this to me, and we had this conversation at Barnwell this week and I keep coming back to it. The running back thing to me is not about whether the running back turns into a good player or whether the running back is a good player. This is 100% about opportunity cost every single time. There are certain positions you can only find in the first round when you're looking for impact players at those positions. Offensive tackle and pass rush are two of those positions. If you are in a state that the Arizona Cardinals are in where you have the third overall pick and the roster is in the shape that it's in, to me it is indefensible to not try to find players at those positions even if they are a slight tier down from a guy like Jeremiah Love in this draft. I just don't think you can defend it.

Speaker 4:
[40:09] I actually do have a question for you if it's going to be about the premium positions things if they took Sonny Styles how would you have felt about that?

Speaker 1:
[40:16] I don't I wouldn't have loved that either.

Speaker 4:
[40:17] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[40:17] I wouldn't have loved that either. To me it's like a raser offensive line thing. I take our Vail Reese.

Speaker 4:
[40:22] To be clear I also would have like sprinted to the podium for our Vail Reese.

Speaker 1:
[40:25] That's what I'm doing. Like you look at their current past pressure situation, Zayvan Collins and Baron Browning are both free agents after this year. Like this is we have so much evidence for where the players at these positions come from and I just think that you have to do that in the top five when you were in the current position at the Browns. I think you have to. I look at Bijan and I think that this is to me potentially an analogous situation. The Falcons drafted Bijan at seven. Bijan is an excellent player and their offensive line was in a better state than the Rams or Carter's offensive line is when they drafted Bijan Robinson. By not addressing pass rusher, you get into a situation last year as the Falcons where you are so desperate to find one, that you have to trade up in the first round to go get James Pierce because you didn't address it earlier. You are always robbing from Peter to pay Paul somewhere along the way when you are using these premium picks on non-premium players. It is going to come back to get you. So by not drafting Arval Reiss in the top five here, two years from now, how easy is it to imagine a scenario where we're looking at the Cardinals and be like, shit man, the Cardinals need a pass rusher so bad. It's very, very easy because you only have so many opportunities to find players at these positions. The other one for me that I just like, I'm like, all right. What are the Patriots going to do?

Speaker 2:
[41:49] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:51] Like what is that?

Speaker 3:
[41:52] I'm confused, but I think it's kind of fun. Like I'm just, I'm intrigued. It's like, what the f***? Compliment? Maybe not compliment, but at least it's intriguing.

Speaker 1:
[42:01] I mean, I guess my thought is, and this is just like, this is not rooted in any sort of like theory or research or whatever else. This is all based on like vibes and feel. Do you feel good about an offense that has Will Campbell and Kale Blomu as its tackles? Are you scared of that offense?

Speaker 4:
[42:18] Not really, to be honest with you, I don't think I am.

Speaker 1:
[42:21] It's just a lot of finesse. It's a lot of finesse at your two tackle spots. And we're just in, we live in a world now where like finesse teams are not getting it done.

Speaker 4:
[42:32] It's a left tackle, they wouldn't be able to run behind and then in the case of Will Campbell potentially being your right tackle, a right tackle I can always get the edge on. Like I just don't know if that does a whole lot for me. And Campbell is a good player in some ways, Lomu could be good, but like it, this is not Rashawn Slater and Joe Ault.

Speaker 1:
[42:47] Yeah, I just don't love it. It is one of those where it's just a little bit surprising to me.

Speaker 2:
[42:51] Brendan Thorne ranked Will Campbell as a guard last year in that draft and maybe that is how they view, regardless of what they've said publicly, maybe that's how they view how potentially this could play out in the future.

Speaker 3:
[43:03] That's what makes it interesting to me.

Speaker 4:
[43:04] Does Vera Tucker go back out to tackle? I mean, he was a left tackle, but like-

Speaker 5:
[43:08] He could tackle still, right?

Speaker 4:
[43:09] Yeah, maybe he's your right tackle.

Speaker 1:
[43:10] We've got a lot of moving parts now.

Speaker 4:
[43:11] Right. At that point, we're getting like a little too complicated, it feels like.

Speaker 3:
[43:15] That's why I'm intrigued because I'm just like, oh, what line up is going to come out of this? I don't know the answer confidently right now.

Speaker 1:
[43:22] I guess my problem is that doesn't really worry me. It's not about like, how is this all going to fit together? When it fits together at the end, I don't think I'm going to be excited about it.

Speaker 3:
[43:32] I think, and of course, you could be wrong. The hope for Caleb Lomu is that this is not his final form. He could be a vastly different player in a year or two than he is right now. The bet is that he grows into that. There's no guarantee of that obviously, but in the world where he lives up to that, maybe those concerns go away over time.

Speaker 1:
[43:55] I think if another team had drafted him to be their left tackle, I'd be like, OK, whatever. But to me, it's the combination of him and Campbell together as your two tackles. I'm like, I just I'm not sure I will ever love this. What if they end up becoming good players?

Speaker 3:
[44:05] If he grows into being an ass-kicking left tackle and Will Campbell's a really good left guard and the Patriots' left side is fantastic.

Speaker 1:
[44:14] What percentage chance would you put on Caleb Lowe ever being an ass-kicker in the NFL?

Speaker 2:
[44:18] Low. I mean, I just don't. You don't watch his game.

Speaker 4:
[44:21] That's as mean as Dane will ever get. Low.

Speaker 2:
[44:23] Yeah, well, you don't watch his game and think, oh yeah, he's a people mover. You know, he's going to be someone that's going to inflict his will. And that's just not his game. Now, obviously, you.

Speaker 3:
[44:34] The guy turned 21.

Speaker 1:
[44:36] It's a mindset thing.

Speaker 3:
[44:37] Over Christmas.

Speaker 1:
[44:38] To me, it's a mindset thing.

Speaker 3:
[44:39] I get that, but like, are you a finished product as a football player at 20? I mean, so he played this season at the age of 20.

Speaker 1:
[44:49] I think the way you play.

Speaker 3:
[44:50] Are you a finished product?

Speaker 1:
[44:53] I think you would get an inkling of the way you'll play by the time you're 20.

Speaker 3:
[44:57] I don't think you're wrong, but if I'm looking for Cope, he's a young guy.

Speaker 4:
[45:02] I mean, I think you're right. I think he could get a little bit stronger. I think for me, it's like, I still want you to be at the baseline already. And then potentially, we can project that you get to like an 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10, and that whatever it's going to be. If you're under the bar, and then I have to bet that you're going to get over it in a year, dude, that's where I think, and I guess if you're picking him at 28, 27, like all these guys are flawed at some point anyway, but that is what scares me a little bit.

Speaker 3:
[45:27] Caleb O'Moo to me feels like a perfect example of what we've been talking about, where pick 40 to 50 offensive tackles are going away. And like, you know, the tape says this guy should probably be a second round pick, but he's 21 and he's 6'6, 3'13, and he's an athletic guy. And it's just like, all right, well, you're a first round pick.

Speaker 1:
[45:47] It's just like, the difference to me is like when I watch Freeling play, even if like, there's some maybe strength concerns and it's about like tools and things, when you watch him, like, he's got some f*** you to him. Like, he's got something to him.

Speaker 2:
[45:58] There's no grit with Gail's limo.

Speaker 1:
[46:00] And that to me is like why, like, it's not about closing the gap physically, to me it's about what are you bringing to the position? And I just think, we talk a lot about this with, you know, running back value in the running game and like, in defensive ends, even how they defend the run has become more important in the way we evaluate them, but like, offensive tackles should be that too. Like, we should be saying the same things about offensive tackles and so, that to me is just a little bit where the gap exists. All right, before we move on, we're gonna take one more quick break. Talk about our biggest surprises of night one. This doesn't even necessarily need to be good or bad, but just moments where you're like, oh shit. Dane, what do you got for me?

Speaker 2:
[46:41] Viking is drafting Caleb Banks. That one surprised me. I thought there was a chance he could go in the first round. I didn't think he could go in the top 20. We covered it on the stream, but extremely talented player for a guy that size, but he barely played this year because of a foot injury, injured the same foot, broke a different part of that foot at the combine. And so we're going based off of traits and an unrealized idea. So a big swing at that point in the draft. He was not, I think he was like 52 on my board, but it's really just all injury. If he was healthy and I think we felt better about where he was going in the trajectory, it's not as big of a surprise, but still I didn't think he'd be a top 20 pick.

Speaker 1:
[47:31] Did you read anything into the fact that the Vikings don't have a GM right now?

Speaker 2:
[47:34] I almost mentioned that on the stream. It's just, obviously the front office has been in place, it's just the GM's not there. So it's not like they had a total overhaul and the scouts are still doing their thing.

Speaker 1:
[47:50] But the buck doesn't stop with anybody.

Speaker 2:
[47:51] Right, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[47:52] And so it almost encourages you to take a swing like this because if it doesn't work out, it doesn't fall at anybody's feet.

Speaker 4:
[47:59] And a coaching staff that's probably feeling a little bit heat because like they have not probably had some of the success they wanted, especially the way last year went. They're probably a little bit more willing to be like, we'll just take the guy that if he works out, he's Dexter Lawrence and if he's not, all right.

Speaker 2:
[48:13] When you know, I mean, Flores had to have had his fingerprints on this.

Speaker 4:
[48:18] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[48:18] So I think that's, and obviously we know how respected his voice is in that organization. So I'm sure that played a heavy part of just having his thumb on the scale.

Speaker 1:
[48:28] Well, you look at what they did last off season, obviously they didn't do it in the draft. But the money that they spent on Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave, they clearly wanted more pop in the middle of that defensive line, and it just didn't work out. The money they spent on those third contract ties, it just didn't pan out the way they wanted. But clearly, that's been a priority for them is to find that skill set in the middle of the defense. And so to see them pay a little bit of a premium for it, I don't know, maybe it just shouldn't be that surprising. Right now, it's Levi Drake Rodriguez and Jalen Redmond. Jalen Redmond is a nice player, but that was a spot that absolutely needed addressing, even if it's a little bit more aggressive than we expected them.

Speaker 2:
[49:03] And look, we talked about in this draft, there's only so many ways you can do that.

Speaker 3:
[49:07] I think that's my takeaway from that is, again, we said for months, where's the star power? Where are the alien players? Caleb Banks is an alien, he's just injured and you don't have a lot to go on, and the Vikings decided that swing was worth it.

Speaker 2:
[49:26] If you go back to that 2024 LSU tape, it's there.

Speaker 3:
[49:29] Look, across the fall when we did Building the Beast, there were probably two guys that Dane wished I would shut the hell up about, and they both just went in the top 20, Ty Simpson and Caleb Banks, so I don't know, that doesn't mean they're going to be good, but it's a nice night for me personally.

Speaker 4:
[49:44] To win for now.

Speaker 2:
[49:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:46] Bruce, what was your big surprise from round one?

Speaker 5:
[49:48] I mean, again, I go back to Reese Fallon to five. Like, I just, it surprised me just the way it's shaped up. But beyond that, you know, like Dane's right, I didn't expect Banks to go there. I didn't expect, you know, I knew there was a big need for them, but I knew that it wasn't like, ooh, they're not, I didn't think they were taking Caden MacDonald.

Speaker 1:
[50:16] Everyone thought they were taking Dylan Thienemann.

Speaker 5:
[50:19] That's what I thought, you know. I don't know if this is a fair one to say it. Like, I mean, are we talking about, can I say a guy that I thought was going to go that didn't show up?

Speaker 1:
[50:27] Sure, absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[50:28] Yeah, I'm surprised Emmanuel McClorn is still on the board. I thought he would have been gone. I mean, obviously Thienemann went a little later than we thought. I thought he would go somewhere in the first round and he didn't.

Speaker 2:
[50:42] That's a safety thing.

Speaker 1:
[50:43] That's what I was going to say. It's just like seven picks later for every single one of these guys, right?

Speaker 2:
[50:48] Basically, down Thienemann. Yeah, I'm sure he should go pretty quickly on day two. But I mean, no, that's a good one because he's, I think he's a top 30 player, maybe top 25 player in this draft. Do we all agree if we were the Cardinals, we would have drafted Arvel Rees at three?

Speaker 4:
[51:06] Yes, I think so, yes. My surprise was Rees falling away.

Speaker 3:
[51:10] Or traded back. If they wanted to do that, I could have gotten on board with it.

Speaker 1:
[51:14] I just don't think that, again, I don't think, when you look at the state of the roster, you're starting from an early enough point in the process.

Speaker 2:
[51:22] Where do you mean to bring this up again?

Speaker 1:
[51:24] Just like, go get them for me. I have two, just when it comes to like, I never expected this player to be drafted by this team. McKay Lemon to the Eagles. I just like never in a million years would I have expected McKay Lemon to be on this team.

Speaker 2:
[51:37] The Steelers either.

Speaker 1:
[51:39] The Steelers apparently called him and said they were going to pick him. And then Howie comes up and snatches him away. I just for whatever reason, I assumed the Eagles if they weren't a receiver, they would have gone to do something that would replace AJ Brown if they were going to lose AJ Brown.

Speaker 2:
[51:52] It's interesting that the last time these two teams made a trade, the Eagles drafted a receiver, Devontae Smith, and the Cowboys moved back and drafted Ed Rusher with Michael Parsons. We'll see how these two...

Speaker 1:
[52:04] The other one for me, just in terms of like, we didn't expect him to go in the first round necessarily, Keelan Rutledge going to the Texans.

Speaker 4:
[52:11] I loved that one. It's so good.

Speaker 1:
[52:14] If he plays center and now you completely kind of remake it. And I remember talking to somebody from Houston at the combine and we were just discussing the fact that, and this has been true for a lot of teams, like I think the Seahawks felt this way going into the 2025 season where they're like, our defense has such an attitude about it. Where are we going to find the offensive players that can start to develop that same attitude on the other side of the ball, where you feel us in a way you feel our defense. And it really does feel like in the best case scenario here, Dane, with like a Wyatt Teller and a Keele Rell, which if he does end up playing center, like you are starting to get to that place where the same sort of mindset that you prevent when the defense is on the field, you can start to get there with the offense.

Speaker 2:
[52:57] Yeah, and this is a totally culture, you know, whatever word you want to use, like he's the type of guy you want in your offensive line room. The fact that you project him to have that interior flex where he's going to help you get your five best out there. To me, this fell under the pairing you didn't know you needed. I didn't connect these two, but now that it happened, I love it. This is something that I think makes the offensive line better from day one. I totally understand the type of player they're going for here.

Speaker 4:
[53:30] I think that this is twofold help a little bit. One, any offensive line help in front of CJ Stroud is great, because I think we saw the last couple of years the way that he's just been getting decimated. I think clearly he's gotten to his head in the way that he played. I think to pour into that same idea a little bit, that they just have not been able to run the ball, hardly at all really the last few years. Them and the Raiders were some of the worst teams running the ball. I do think Rutledge gives you a lot there. Obviously, this team traded for David Montgomery, who I think is a much more talented back than any of the guys they've had lately. So if he helps you out purely as a pass protector a little bit, can maybe play center for you short up the middle that way. And then you can actually run the ball a little bit more now with him and Teller. And it's like, can we just get into a few more third and twos instead of third and nine? I just feel like that goes such a long way for this team.

Speaker 3:
[54:17] And it's dangerous doing this. I get it. But like if Ariante Ercery's progression moved.

Speaker 4:
[54:22] And he was solid.

Speaker 3:
[54:24] And if he continues to move up, I'm pretty in on that offensive line. Not crazy in, but I'm just like, ooh, this is pretty nice.

Speaker 4:
[54:33] You got to project a little bit, but you can see it.

Speaker 3:
[54:35] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:35] And the other thing in terms of like, all right, the best case scenario we have in our minds, the best case scenario doesn't always work out. To me, one of the elements of that is Wyatt Teller's health. But if he gets hurt, then in theory, right, he can play guard. So it just seems like there is some flexibility there. Even like, Brad Smith can play guard if he needs to. Like, they just have different ways this could all go. And I think that in a way that I think is appealing. Any other surprises you guys wanted to hit?

Speaker 3:
[55:00] Banks was mine.

Speaker 4:
[55:01] Okay. Not really. I mean, like falls into a different category potentially, but like Cardinal Tate going for it stunned me a little bit, but man, I thought that was awesome.

Speaker 1:
[55:11] Let's get to the, but it might work out for us, stretch of the draft, moves that have a little bit of risk, but I think you can understand where teams are talking themselves into it working out for them. Dane, what fits this kind of profile in your mind of the picks you saw tonight?

Speaker 2:
[55:26] I mean, I guess Kenyon Sadiq and the Jets a little bit. I didn't love it. Like, I still don't love it, but I can kind of see what they're going for. Peter Woods and the Chiefs, to me, that's kind of fits here where I probably wouldn't have done it. And, I mean, he was a fringe first-rounder for me, so I'm not shocked that he's stuck in there, but the talent's there. And I think if they think they can get it out of him, and he's playing next to Chris Jones, and just what that could potentially become and how we're looking at this pick in 10 months from now, how interesting that will be. So those two ones stood out to me.

Speaker 4:
[56:03] I also want to say, as the Peter Woods guy on this show, my pick for this was Peter Woods. I realize that that's what this is. I'm just willing to do it.

Speaker 1:
[56:14] Who did you have for this?

Speaker 3:
[56:16] I want to say at the start, I like the pick. Because it's similar to Caleb Banks, where it's like, take a swing at the alien if you're not in love with some of these prospects. But I think we're describing the Caden Proctor pick to my 100% my answer. And so many times we talk about this stuff, it's like it's unfair, it's anonymous scout speak when you're like killing a guy. Nick Saban got on ESPN this week and was like, Caden Proctor's, he's a great guy, he'll do whatever you want him to once you get him in the building. When he's not in the building, you kind of have to worry about him. Like he's a little, he could get overweight, he could like not be as dedicated as you want. But once you get him in there, it's fantastic. It's all great. That scares the shit out of me to be blunt, especially about a guy that you're picking 11th overall. So the track record of guys this big, developing into great players is not amazing. You've got the greatest college coach of all time, giving you the full rundown of the concerns. But he is an alien type of player and it might work for the Dolphins, and he might become an amazing offensive lineman. Like I said, I really do like the bet because the Dolphins need so much help. If you need that much help, you've already gained a lot of draft capital with the movement they did on Thursday night and before the draft as well. Take a big swing on a really freaky big athlete and maybe it will work out for you. But I think you got to have your eyes wide open about the reasons this might not work.

Speaker 5:
[57:47] I was going to say the same thing except a little bit different reasoning on him. And because he's obviously he's a really gifted huge athlete. Sometimes people would go, yeah, but what's going to happen when he finally and when he gets money?

Speaker 3:
[58:02] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[58:03] Now it's different. These guys got money now. Sure, and I know. So it's like, hopefully, you know, it's just he's young. And remember, he briefly went to Iowa for a minute and then came back. And I don't know, the guys I talked to at Alabama actually really did like him and thought he was maturing. And I think you again, it's higher than I thought he would have gone. But I could see why he could be a top 12 pick, you know, and so I don't, I don't hate that pick.

Speaker 3:
[58:35] No, for the record, I like the pick.

Speaker 5:
[58:37] I'm not saying you like that.

Speaker 3:
[58:38] And I don't have them in front of me, but I mean, the Dolphins, they added several picks tonight, right? Like from, you know, the deal they did with Dallas, I guess they moved back up.

Speaker 4:
[58:48] They moved back up, so I don't know what it came out in the world.

Speaker 3:
[58:50] They have more than enough picks. Like they got plenty of capital to work with. So, they've got, I mean, they wound up making a pick. Oh no, they traded out of the, that was the Omar Cooper pick. So they didn't make two picks in the first round, right?

Speaker 4:
[59:04] Chris Johnson. They traded up to 27. I don't remember what all the movement was, but. Yes, right.

Speaker 3:
[59:09] There was a lot of movement in the back half of the round. Okay, yeah, you're right. They add to their secondary, they get a guy in Chris Johnson that Dane is really high on and that people like a lot. So even if the Proctor thing doesn't live up to the expectations of picking them 11th overall, I think the Dolphins have more than enough stuff going for them.

Speaker 1:
[59:27] Yeah, they got two fives to move down with Dallas and then they traded a third to the Niners and got a fourth back to move back up to that spot.

Speaker 3:
[59:36] They're going to have, I mean, their draft class is going to be huge by the time this is all said and done. And yeah, getting Chris Johnson as like a very steady guy that you feel safe about, that makes me feel good about taking a swing like this.

Speaker 2:
[59:49] They traded a third to go from where?

Speaker 1:
[59:52] 30 to 27, I believe.

Speaker 2:
[59:54] Wow.

Speaker 1:
[59:55] They gave up a third and got back a fourth.

Speaker 2:
[59:58] Oh, they got back a fourth.

Speaker 1:
[59:59] So they moved down 48 spots in order to make that trade.

Speaker 2:
[60:02] Okay. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[60:04] This offensive line class is fascinating.

Speaker 2:
[60:06] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:07] It's just there are, there's so many weird players and like the bets you're choosing to make are so interesting. Like I, the siren song of the massive man who moves in a way that no one else does in a way that even Proctor does. Like for him to go 11 and for Blake Miller and Ro Freling to go where they went. Like it, it's all about like what sort of risk and am I willing to incur based on what the payoff is down the road. And with Proctor, like the competing forces on both sides of that, you understand how he goes 12 when some of these other guys are lasting into the teens, even if I think I'd rather make the bet on Freeling and Miller for very different reasons, right? Like they're extremely different players, but I think I'd be say, I feel better with those bets.

Speaker 3:
[60:51] The first offensive lineman off the board in this class did sinners drills at the baseline and the Browns are like, we think you're our left tackle future. I mean, that kind of says it all.

Speaker 1:
[61:00] It's a bizarre offensive line class, but what I really liked actually, but it is a bizarre offensive line class. To run through these pretty quickly here, the pairing you never knew you needed. Mine was Dylan, I had Dylan thin them into the Bears. I have a couple more if you guys don't hit them. Dane, what was yours?

Speaker 2:
[61:14] I had Bain in the Bucks, so something we already talked about. Just one of those, my brain didn't absorb that fully during the pre-draft process, because I didn't think Bain would make it that far. But now that it happened, it's like, okay, yeah, this is something I can really get on board with.

Speaker 1:
[61:28] Derrik?

Speaker 4:
[61:29] Mine was Cardinal Tate. I just thought it was going to be Love or one of the Ohio State defenders. I was just so locked in on all those guys, and then you tell me Cardinal Tate's going to go be the safety blanket for Ward, I'm like, hell yeah.

Speaker 1:
[61:40] Bruce, did you have one?

Speaker 5:
[61:41] Peter Woods and Chris Jones.

Speaker 4:
[61:42] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[61:43] I was just thinking, it reminded me a little bit last year when we were talking about Walter Nolan and say who was this?

Speaker 1:
[61:49] It was Clayette Campbell and Davin Thomson in both of them.

Speaker 5:
[61:52] So I feel like that's not like it's a maturity issue with Peter Woods. I just feel like it's like, show me how to finish.

Speaker 4:
[62:00] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[62:01] Yeah, Woods was mine as well. When I said it on the stream to Derrik, like Derrik's high on Peter Woods and I was not, but Steve Spagnolo clearly liked him. He's playing with Chris Jones and Cairs Tonga is there as well. So the expectations don't need to be high that he fills this massive role for the Chiefs right away. And like that ecosystem for him, I like it a hell of a lot more than I just liked Peter Woods as a standalone prospect.

Speaker 1:
[62:26] I'll go with the other Chiefs pick. Once we're delaying going to the Chiefs, that's one where it's just like, oh man, I didn't know I wanted that. And I think part of it is because of how we talk about corners to the Chiefs.

Speaker 3:
[62:36] Trying to follow the breadcrumbs, you're like, ah, they'll probably wait till the third round to get a corner back. And then they traded up to make him the number six pick. That was fun.

Speaker 1:
[62:45] The other one that I thought out there that again, I just was surprised by how much I liked it in the moment is Jordan Tyson going to the Saints.

Speaker 4:
[62:50] Yeah, that one's a good one. I just, the skill sets just make so much sense.

Speaker 1:
[62:54] I love it. And again, as somebody who didn't necessarily love Jordan Tyson in the process and watching him, I just think that offense with Chris Olave there, I don't know, man. I'm excited about watching the Saints.

Speaker 3:
[63:05] The comp Dane and I got on Jordan Tyson at one point in the process was CD Lamb.

Speaker 4:
[63:11] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[63:11] And I mean, who knows how the Saints see him, but clearly they like him a lot to draft him eighth. And so that pairs pretty nicely with a guy like Chris Olave.

Speaker 1:
[63:21] It's two just best fit. Like the fit you saw and you're just like, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4:
[63:25] I like that.

Speaker 1:
[63:26] Did you have one of those?

Speaker 3:
[63:26] Yeah, it's boring and we've been joking about it for three months, but Vanga Iwane took the ball to the ball team. I mean, come on.

Speaker 1:
[63:35] It's so telling that that one is probably the right answer and my other two are offensive linemen.

Speaker 4:
[63:39] Yep. I mean, it was that kind of class. Nine of them went in the first round.

Speaker 2:
[63:43] That's it. I was going to say the two receivers that went top ten, but we just touched on them. Colonel Tate, Jordan Tyson. So I'll say Fernando Mendoza. We haven't talked about him yet.

Speaker 3:
[63:52] Pull on Fernando, man.

Speaker 2:
[63:53] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3:
[63:54] Like no pub. He's going to know a pub. He made a lot of money.

Speaker 4:
[63:57] Two number one quarterbacks in a row where people just like did not really get that excited.

Speaker 2:
[64:02] That's what happens in one quarterback class.

Speaker 4:
[64:04] Right.

Speaker 2:
[64:04] Sorry, Ty. But yeah, Mendoza, I just can't wait to watch the Raiders this year. And I, you know, didn't say that last year.

Speaker 3:
[64:11] So ironically, we did.

Speaker 4:
[64:14] Yeah, unfortunately, I did do that.

Speaker 1:
[64:16] But we'll see. We'll see what they do. I mean, they're a fascinating team in the top half of the second round. You said that you don't think Kate McDonald slips past them.

Speaker 2:
[64:23] But I don't think so.

Speaker 1:
[64:24] They need a right tackle. They need another receiver.

Speaker 2:
[64:26] Secondary.

Speaker 1:
[64:27] They're just, I don't, at this point, I default to this too quickly where I'm just like, let's try the quarterback. Just give me the quarterback. Everything he needs. Like I just would, it's almost like a baby. You have to keep alive. Like I'm just trying to do everything I can to make sure that the quarterback stays alive. And I'm not sure that 330 pound nose tackle, even if he's a very exciting player does that. My two, Blake Miller going to the lines.

Speaker 4:
[64:52] Yeah, that one I didn't do.

Speaker 1:
[64:53] It's just like, all right.

Speaker 3:
[64:54] I kind of forgot about that. But I really, I do, I said it on the stream. But the idea of like, instead of banking on the super athletic left tackle prospect, we have that freak in our building already. I think Pene Sewell can be a left tackle just fine and then just put the steady quote unquote boring right tackle over there. I had forgotten about that. Thank you for reminding that.

Speaker 1:
[65:18] You know how awesome it is to have a boring right tackle in the NFL?

Speaker 3:
[65:20] It kicks ass.

Speaker 1:
[65:21] It's the best thing in the world is to have a right tackle that you never think or talk about.

Speaker 3:
[65:26] It's, I would call it a luxury. Like if you're living that life, you're living large.

Speaker 1:
[65:31] And the other one I really liked was Monroe Freeland going to Carolina. I just had both of those. I really, really like.

Speaker 4:
[65:37] When you watched Carolina last year, there were stretches where their offensive line got too banged up for it to matter. But that offensive line in run game was mauling people. And Monroe Freeling, for some of his wards, he is going to bring that to them. So the fact that they got him there. And at 19, because like I would have taken him, I like Blake Miller, I would have taken Monroe Freeling first. I would have taken him before Kate and Proctor. Like I just, to get him where they got him, pretty good stuff.

Speaker 1:
[66:03] He's so big. And there are times where he gets a little bit top heavy because that's inevitable when you're that big. But what I was struck by watching Freeling at times, is that there were moments where I would forget that he was like 6'8. And I mean that in like a complimentary way. Like the way that he moved, I would forget that he was 6'8, but then you would see how he could weaponize the length and recover with it. Like I think he has a super, super high upside. And so I'm excited. He may not have to play right away in Carolina either. Like if they want to play Rashid Walker at the start and let him grow into that, I absolutely think there's a path where that could happen based on what they did in free agency. Anything else? Any other picks from night one that you guys want to chat about? We'll obviously be talking about every single team, every single class by the time we are done with the other two shows that we're doing both tomorrow and Saturday.

Speaker 4:
[66:53] I think that kind of covers it for me. We hit all the fun ones.

Speaker 1:
[66:55] Because we've been talking for six hours?

Speaker 4:
[66:58] That is part of it. Yes.

Speaker 3:
[66:59] Is there somebody that we just straight up, I feel like we covered damn near every single player.

Speaker 1:
[67:04] I don't think we said Max Ahanichor's name. I don't think we said Akeem Mesadour's name. It was like the two guys I think we talked about on this show. Mesadour is just like, yup.

Speaker 3:
[67:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[67:12] And Ahanichor, I understand how it happens.

Speaker 3:
[67:14] I do like, I like Ahanichor a lot as a player. It sucks for the Steelers. Like that pick to me signals something about Roger Jones where I'm just like, ah, the best laid plans often go awry. I mean, cause they made back to back tackle picks not that long ago.

Speaker 2:
[67:30] I was gonna say, I did go on offensive line in the first two rounds. I mean, how many times in the last three, four years?

Speaker 3:
[67:36] So to be fishing out of that well again, probably doesn't feel great, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Speaker 1:
[67:42] All right. That is all we've got for tonight. We will be back. Well, you're listening to this on Friday morning. We will be back tonight live on the Athletic Football Show YouTube channel at 6:30 PM Eastern. Me, Dane, Derrik, Dave breaking down every single pick of the second and third rounds. Very much looking forward to getting back at it. Bruce, sincerely appreciate you joining us.

Speaker 2:
[68:07] You're the best, Bruce.

Speaker 1:
[68:07] Awesome, man.

Speaker 2:
[68:08] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[68:09] It means a lot that you would spend the time to do this. And we have a great time doing it. So thank you very, very much for coming. And we'll be back doing this again tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.