transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Welcome to episode 797 with my return guest, Brianne Davis. Brianne is a friend of mine from my support groups, and we're going to talk about self-compassion, which if you're a regular listener, you know that I'm going through a really, really tough time lately, and it's at the heart. My struggle with that is at the heart of things. And I've wanted to have Brianne on previously to talk about a book that she has, which is called, I misname it in the podcast, I call it Becoming Your Own Fucking Best Friend, but it's called Becoming My Own Fucking Soulmate. And I was like, well, this seems like the perfect time to let people who are listening, let them see how nitty gritty conversations can be between two people who are friends from a support group and really getting down there in the trenches with each other, which is what she does for me in this episode. And I'm very nervous about it because I feel that I'm coming across as a classic social media attention whore. I'm coming across as somebody who's stuck in playing the victim, a hundred other things. And the recovered part of me knows that I have to just walk through that if I want to get better and continue to grow, I have to risk looking bad, looking foolish, and being somebody that people just roll their eyes at. That's what the mean part of my brain is telling me. And before we get to that, I've been reading, if you're a regular listener, you know that I told you that one of the pieces of literature that I've been reading lately, I'm not a member of ACA, but I had their textbook laying around, and I've just been reading it because a little voice in my head was like, you might find some help in reading this text. And I have, almost every page of it has been. I guess in their program, they call this the Big Red Book. And on page 160 this morning, I read this, and I was like, I think people who listen to the podcast might be able to relate to this and maybe even find comfort and kinship with what's written here. And on page 160, it says under the heading Distinguishing Our Feelings. Before starting your fourth step exercises, review the following list of feelings. The definitions describe where and how different feelings are felt in the body. This should be helpful in the exercises ahead, and the exercises are writing exercises, not physical exercises. In addition to stuffing or dissociating from our feelings, some of us have great difficulty understanding feelings and their definitions. Many of us have been shown a long list of feeling words, only to stare away wondering what the words mean. We are confused about feelings because naming and feeling our own feelings is new to us. As children and teens, we based our feelings on our parents' moods and actions. We were hypervigilant to a parent's tone of voice, body language, and gestures. We watched the parent's behavior to determine how we should feel or not feel. By the time we arrived at ACA, many of us do not know that it is okay to have feelings that are different than those of people we care about. In ACA, we learned that it is okay to have our own feelings. If someone we care about is sad or angry, we can empathize with him or her, but we do not always have to feel sad or angry with the person. We can support the person and his or her feelings without having to feel or fix the person's feelings. This is an awakening for us. This is a key step in recognizing our own feelings and learning how to truly support another without unhealthy dependence. Additionally, our parents or relatives used feeling words in ways that did not match the definitions of the words. This inconsistency distorted reality and made identifying our feelings as adults almost impossible. Many times our parents abused us verbally or physically and called it love or care. I only do this to you because I love you, some parents might say. Don't feel that way was another way we were talked out of our feelings or told our feelings did not matter. Many ACA members speak of quote bundling unquote their feelings before coming to ACA. They describe expressing all of their feelings in a bundle or as one indistinguishable feeling. For example, anger, shame, joy or worry are expressed by tears. They speak of crying when they are angry and crying when they feel elated. They talk about their feelings being all together and indistinguishable. At the same time, many ACA members tend to deny the existence of feelings or have difficulty identifying feelings at all. They talk of feeling numb inside or being confused by the mere mentioning of feelings. The list below offers a general definition of about a dozen feelings as they pertain to ACA. The definitions come from ACA fellowship experience. 1. Loved. A sense of feeling valued, understood and heard. Listened to. Feeling safe with another. Warmth in the heart. Lightness of body. 2. Fear. Anger. Fear is usually masked by anger. Fear. Pounding heartbeat. Dilated pupils. Increased breathing. Tightened skin. Extreme alertness. Anger. Tightened jaw. Upwelling in the chest. Graded teeth. Dilated pupils. Angry thoughts. 3. Shame or ashamed. An intense sense of being faulty, wrong or inferior at the core of our being. A feeling of being ruptured. A burning feeling in the stomach. A sensation of the body shrinking, spiraling inward in the stomach or chest or both. Constricted throat. Difficulty in speaking. Heaviness on the chest and difficulty breathing. Feeling glared at by others. 4. Guilt. A sense of unease or regret for a wrongful or neglectful act against another. Different from shame because guilt is usually about something we have done rather than a statement of who we are. 5. Amused. A light feeling of humor or good spirit. Grins and smiles. God's medicine. 6. Abandoned. A sense of loss. Being left. Pushed out. Forgotten. Minimized. Betrayed. Feeling vulnerable. Feeling physically small. A dot. Lost at sea. 7. Embarrassed. An emotion arising from being exposed. Caught in the act. Confronted. Ridiculed. Feeling flushed. Heat or redness in the face. Shortened breath. Involuntary stomach flutters. 8. Betrayed. Similar to abandonment. Lied to. Being deceived in meaning. Being fooled. Spiraling inward. Weakness in the limbs. Praying is difficult. 9. Satisfied. A sense of feeling full inside. Rested. Not worried. Trustful thoughts. Being in the moment. Not wandering. Being in the body. Centered to earth. Grounded to earth. 10. Hopeful. An expectation that things will work out. Trusting oneself in others. Energy level rises. Breathing is easier. Hitting all the green lights. Inspired. A sense of hope and wonderment of people and things. Colors seem brighter. Problems seem to find their right size. More energy in the body. Lightness of foot. Obstacles are secondary to solutions. 12. Humiliated. A sense of having the inner self exposed, abused or taken away by the act of another or self. Vacuumed out. Void. Soul theft. 13. Loss or grief. A sense that something has been taken. A longing for feeling. Given the answers to life but unsure of the questions. A schoolyard without children. 14. Joy. A sense of integration of the survival traits slash common behaviors. Coming out of the dark night of the soul with sureness of foot. Divided self reunited. Inner peace. Recognizing the true self within. Knowing you can trust yourself. Seeing light in self and others. Energy and warmth throughout the body. Those, some of those were uncomfortable to read. And the codependent in me was like, oh, it mentioned God. People are going to turn off the podcast, or it mentioned prayer, or it's going to sound too New Agey. And that's, that's my shit coming up. You know, I'm sure there will be people that will turn it off. But, hey, it is what it is. But I very, very deeply related to this, especially not knowing what I'm feeling. And after reading that and the recent therapy that I've been getting, I realized just how deeply a feeling of shame, embarrassment and humiliation is stuck inside me and sadness. And I think it's why I've been wanting to numb myself recently is like I want it out of my body. And since I haven't found a way yet, I've gotten some of it out. But the rest of it, I'm so frustrated at feeling it there, even if I can't identify in the moment that that's what I'm feeling, that I want to take me out of my body, not kill myself, but find something where it feels like oblivion, whether it's obsessively doing a hobby or looking at pornography or sleeping. Just, I just want out from being me. And so here's an episode about me.

Speaker 2:
[11:39] I just want to hit my head hard enough to go to sleep for a few weeks.

Speaker 3:
[11:42] I live alone with a bird.

Speaker 1:
[11:44] We do not occupy that much space.

Speaker 2:
[11:47] And don't own a car.

Speaker 1:
[11:48] In other people's heads.

Speaker 4:
[11:49] I never sort of knew.

Speaker 3:
[11:50] I might turn around and hit you.

Speaker 4:
[11:52] I had rage inside of me. Exhausting. Until I became a parent.

Speaker 1:
[11:56] It's traumatizing to watch someone you love so much.

Speaker 4:
[11:59] And I'm glad I got to the other side of it.

Speaker 1:
[12:00] In so much pain.

Speaker 3:
[12:01] You are not as fragile as you fear you are.

Speaker 4:
[12:03] And he's yelling he's going to kill her.

Speaker 1:
[12:05] You don't have to go through pain. It's so nice to be reminded to find purpose of how much love.

Speaker 3:
[12:12] First I was suicidal and now I'm homicidal.

Speaker 1:
[12:15] And goodness, there is.

Speaker 3:
[12:16] And he said, well, that's good.

Speaker 1:
[12:17] That's an improvement in the world.

Speaker 3:
[12:19] Because you're not thinking about yourself. Isn't that great?

Speaker 1:
[12:25] I'm here with Brianne Davis. And you've been on the pod before. Normally, I introduce a guest and talk about our relationship, but I'd kind of be interested to hear you do that. I want to give your plug you first, though. You're the author of two awesome books. Actually, I told you the second one, I've only read part of it, and it's a lot about, I mean, it's called Be Your Own Fucking Best Friend. And it just made me so uncomfortable because I don't want to, there's a part of me that really, that's my biggest battle. That's the thing that tortures me. And there's a part of me that resists that, and we'll get into that. And the other book that you wrote, which came out a couple of years ago. Remind me the name of it.

Speaker 4:
[13:38] Secret Life of the Hollywood Sex and Love Addict.

Speaker 1:
[13:40] Yes. And you have received a flood of people reaching out to you, especially women, who are like, I thought it was just me. And now you do coaching.

Speaker 4:
[13:58] Yeah, I do. I specialize in toxic relationships, co-dependency, love addiction, sex and love addiction, and all of that. And I really help a lot of people all over the world. But here's the funny thing, you would think it was all women. It was a lot of men.

Speaker 1:
[14:11] Oh really?

Speaker 4:
[14:12] Yeah, I had a lot of men reach out to me for themselves, like limerence, them being in toxic relationships, the fantasy addiction. I work a lot with that. But it's so funny, you just said, it's becoming my own effing soulmate. Remember, it's the soulmate. So my book is called That. So you couldn't even say soulmate. Do you see that?

Speaker 1:
[14:33] Wow, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[14:34] You just blocked it out.

Speaker 1:
[14:36] Well, your husband sent it to me on Kindle.

Speaker 4:
[14:38] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[14:38] And when you're reading things on Kindle, the title doesn't pop up. So I always forget the title of things that I'm reading. And a mold.

Speaker 4:
[14:47] Well, no, it's not that. Because when you texted me to even come on and talk, you said, I don't want to be my own soulmate.

Speaker 1:
[14:55] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[14:56] So you knew the title. It's like our brain doesn't want to process it, is what I was just pointing out. Like a part of you doesn't want to be your own best friend and your own soulmate.

Speaker 1:
[15:07] So introduce yourself and our relationship.

Speaker 4:
[15:15] Okay. I am Brianne Davis. I was an actress for 20 years. I was on a hit television show called Six for History Channel and A&E, and I was always a working actor. I was never out of a job. And when I was on that show, it was like I got everything I wanted and I was empty. And I just remember like I have to heal myself and be full completely. And that's why I wrote the book. That's why I didn't mean to change the career. I didn't want to actually ever work with people. I don't like people. People scare the crap out of me. So I somehow, God, universe, my Dharma pulled me into working with people that had my problem 20 years ago that I am now healed from. And I did a ton of training and I've trained with a young therapist. I've trained DBT, trauma, inner child work, internal family systems. So I healed myself 17 years ago and now I'm healing others. And how you and I met is a support group. We've been, I've known you for like 17 years, I think, 17. And we've been through ups and downs. You're like a brother to me. And so whenever I'm struggling or you're struggling, we reach out and support each other. And I just remember so many beautiful moments we've had in our support group and outside of it where we get to get to the authentic, raw, vulnerable selves. And you're a man and I'm a woman and there's no crossing the line. And it's just such a beautiful friendship that I'm, I don't have to see you. And then when I see you, it's like, that connection is there.

Speaker 1:
[16:59] Because we don't see each other outside of this. But when we see each other in our meetings or, you know, we reach out to each other by the phone, there's just, there's no bullshit. There's no bullshit and we get right to the heart of the matter, especially the things that are hard to say. One of the moments that I will bring up for people that has been most healing for me was a moment we were in a meeting years ago. I want to say it was probably 2014 maybe. And I can't remember the subject that came up. Somebody might, a woman might have been sharing about being treated like a piece of meat by men. And I remember hearing that and thinking that's me. That's my past. And just feeling deep, deep shame. And having to get up and leave because I was starting to cry. And you came out into the courtyard and you sat with me and then we embraced and I cried on your shoulder and I told you the things that I had done that I was so ashamed of. And you just supported me. Do you remember that moment?

Speaker 4:
[18:45] Yes, of course I remember that moment.

Speaker 1:
[18:47] Do you remember what you were thinking or feeling in that moment?

Speaker 4:
[18:52] I was thinking the shame you were feeling, I have felt too, because I also used men, like I'm sure you felt like you used women, and I just wanted to support you because there isn't shame, you know? Because I used to snort men. I used to want that attention, that validation, that sexuality.

Speaker 1:
[19:09] And you've used the phrase, I want to destroy men.

Speaker 4:
[19:13] Oh yeah, I wanted to destroy men. I can 100% say that. I hated men, I hated women, I just hated people in general and I used to purposely destroy men and if they were crying, I would also start laughing. Like that's how dark my perversion went. So when you were sharing all that with me, there was no judgment. I didn't see anything you were saying as shameful and I just wanted to be that person that stood with you in that, like, we can do bad things but we're not bad people, you know? And most of it is, and all of it usually is survival. So I don't even remember what I said. I think I just listened a lot and then told you it was okay and I've been there too. I think that was the gist of it.

Speaker 1:
[19:58] Yeah, and it was for me the beginning of getting a, I'm not gonna say healing the shame because that's why you are here to help me talk about this. But it was the beginning of me experiencing moments of momentum of self-forgiveness and self-compassion. And even more important than that, realizing that in the eyes of females who know my truth, that they don't look away, they don't run away, and quite the opposite, they love me unconditionally.

Speaker 4:
[20:46] Yeah, lean in.

Speaker 1:
[20:47] Yeah. And that was a revelation for me because I never thought that that would be, that the case, but... Um... I just can't even tell you how much it meant to me. And when you walked in the door to record just now, just the way you looked at me with the compassion, and you know, there's an eye contact with people who know each other's darkest moments. That's so comforting.

Speaker 4:
[21:33] Yeah, you're fully seen, you're fully accepted. There's nothing you can say that will make the other person flinch or run away. And it's, because we were supposed to get that from our parents. And I think a thing you and I really connect on is the enmeshment with a parent, or the emotional incest. And I never got to be fully seen by my own mother and father. And I know you and I have talked about that. And that, and I hope you're okay me mentioning this, but it's like to then have someone in your life be able to fully see you and see the good, the bad, the right, the wrong, the ugly, whatever you want to call it, and not flinch and turn away, is that's that unconditional love that we've always looked for. That's how I feel.

Speaker 1:
[22:16] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[22:17] When I'm at those moments and you guys see me or, you know, my support sees me.

Speaker 1:
[22:22] Yeah. We are going to take a quick break and see if we have any sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Alma. Those of you who have tried to find the right therapist know it can be really, really difficult and I've experienced that. And I'm really grateful that Alma is a sponsor of the podcast because I use them to find my most recent therapist and I really, really like Alma. I can give it an enthusiastic thumbs up. The interface is great. They all responded to me. The communication was easy and simple. Their directory of 20,000 therapists gave me a lot of options. And the therapist I found works on a sliding scale, which is awesome because my insurance is horrible and nobody takes it. But you will find that 99% of the therapists on Alma take insurance. So you deserve to feel like that future version of yourself in a year from now isn't that far away. Get started now at helloalma.com/happyhouralma is spelled A-L-M-A. That's helloalma.com/h-a-p-p-y-h-o-u-r. And we'll put the link to that in the show notes. This episode is sponsored by Quince. I love me some Quince. I love all the clothes that are in my daily rotation from Quince. The t-shirts, the underwear, the cashmere sweater. It's just all good quality. Super, super affordable. And one of the reasons that their stuff is so affordable is they cut out the middleman. And they work directly with, and here's the important part, ethical factories. So you're paying for quality and not brand markup. If somebody were to ask me, hey, where should I try buying clothes online that I've never done before? 100%, I would say, Quince. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/mental for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to q u i n c e.com/mental for free shipping and 365 day returns. Go to quince.com/mental and we'll put the link in the show notes. Do you remember the workshop that we went to? What was that like abandoned convent in Los Feliz?

Speaker 4:
[24:46] I don't know. We've done, I've done so many workshops. But you tell me which one because my brain will go crazy. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[24:53] There was one where we broke off into little groups and Alicia was sharing. And then a bunch of people, we went around the group. And for some reason, I was thinking that you were there. But every person talked about their self-loathing. And we were all pretty new. And it's the first moment that I felt that my higher power was maybe more than just tolerating me, that it had a purpose for me and that my suffering was not for me, and it was not. And I went from feeling like I'm just tolerable to, not that I'm better than other people, but that I'm special. And that the universe has selected me because of innate abilities that I have to help other people. And, and I just started sobbing. It's like enough poison in that moment left my chest that I could feel like a deep breath in, like love from the universe. And unfortunately, I thought it was permanent. I didn't realize it's a daily struggle for many of us, but I just realized that you've been there for two of the most important healing moments of my life. So thank you.

Speaker 4:
[26:48] You're welcome. But it's an honor. That's what I, I believe in how I get through with any of the things I struggle with. It's that that journey through that darkness then makes me more in touch with myself and everybody else on this planet. And so I look at any of those struggles that you're talking about, or those moments of like the dark night of the soul where you think you're dying or this pain is coming out, that once you walk through that, it makes you so resilient and it makes you closer to you and closer to God and closer to everything else. So I see you, even when you're struggling, like this aura of enlightenment, that you're even aware of your struggle and you're wanting to change. And even when you go down to the depths of the darkness, you crawl your way out of it. Same with me. And there's such a beauty in that. There's such a depth in that. And you do evolve higher than the consciousness of this planet. And so I see it as a gift. So when you're struggling right now, I'm like, yay, he's struggling. We get to go deeper and evolve more and then bring it out into the world. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[28:04] It does, but that does not occur to me. It occurs to me. If you're the person who's struggling. But to me, I'm so embarrassed, especially with people that I came into the support group at the same time as you're one of those people where, you know, the class of 09, 010. And you have maintained your sobriety, not acting out, et cetera, et cetera. And I feel embarrassed when I'm struggling around you, even though I intellectually know you're not judging me. There's a part of me, and I suppose it's my ego, that doesn't want to look like a failure, look like I'm weak, you know, all the things that I'm selfish, that I'm dirty, you know, the greatest hits.

Speaker 4:
[29:09] Yes, the greatest, the voice in our head. But you have to understand, it's like, yes, I kept my sobriety. That doesn't make me better than you. It doesn't make me more godly or more healed. It's just that your pain might be unbearable sometimes. And instead of leaning into the pain, you're still running to numb out. But it doesn't mean I'm better because at other moments I'd run to sugar. So I even have my isms sometimes when the pain is so unbearable, you know, you pick up the phone and numb out. So I still have isms. It's just those ones I don't turn to. So everybody.

Speaker 1:
[29:51] It's so nice to hear because I put you on like this recovery pedestal. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[29:58] No, I reach for that piece of cake. I have many of times in my withdrawal through really hard moments, getting out of toxic friendships, not talking to my father for two years because of the emotional incest, having a big falling out with my entire family. In those moments, I turn to shopping or I turn to sugar because sugar was my first addiction and then I had to work on that. So it's like, no one is perfect. We all turn to ism sometimes when the pain inside us becomes so unbearable and you want to crawl out of your fucking skin and unzip yourself. And what I've just been practicing, especially for this last year, which I wanted to talk to you about is the only healing is to accept the pain. And so I have been practicing diligently, lean into the pain, the healing pain, not the numbing out pain. And so that practice, it's so hard. But here's what I say, every time I feel that pain, I go, yay, it's happening. This lets me go deeper. I can get through this. So it's like, I almost coach myself to keep leaning in. And the more I cry, the more I'm on my knees, the more I want to crawl out of my skin and reach that thing that I can escape in. And I don't do it. It makes it easier every single day. And so you just have to think you went to a layer that your consciousness couldn't handle. And so it just reached for that escape that we usually use in childhood. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[31:36] It does. And for me, it starts with fantasy.

Speaker 4:
[31:39] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:40] And the drugs that get released in my brain, and they're always related to the trauma. Some way of trying to relive it, control it, have a different outcome, you know, whatever. That drug is so powerful to me that I don't want to pick up the phone call. Pick up the phone. I don't want to pray or meditate. I just want to immediately go into oblivion mode. And I suppose the recovery is that I let the people know around me, my girlfriend, people in the program, my best friend. Afterwards, I picked up the phone and called them. And I suppose that is...

Speaker 4:
[32:38] Healing.

Speaker 1:
[32:39] Yeah, recovery. But it doesn't feel like it. It feels like why didn't I call them beforehand? But I wouldn't say that to you. I would never say, why didn't you do this better?

Speaker 4:
[32:53] You know better. No, you wouldn't. And so I need you to see it's like, we do the best we can in that moment. And then it's about the reset. It's not about what happened. It's about how do you reset? How do you pivot? Because here's the thing. I just even, let's say six months ago, like raged out on someone, which normally I'm really like calm.

Speaker 1:
[33:18] Oh, please tell me all the details.

Speaker 4:
[33:21] Yeah, this person was lying and lying and lying. And the thing with a healed person, do not lie to my face. Like, you can tell me anything, just don't keep lying. So I was like, you are a liar. And I just went off. And I know better than that. And that for me is a type of slipping. Because that makes me not emotionally sober. That makes me a lesser version of what I wanna be. That gets me high. The power over this other person telling them they're a fucking liar.

Speaker 1:
[33:54] The drug of self-righteousness.

Speaker 4:
[33:56] Yeah, the like, I'm gonna put you in your place. And that comes up for me that I still to this day, what, 17 years later, have to work on. So, you know, I did write about that in the book. I did write about the eating and the sugar stuff. I did write about the fantasy addiction. Because fantasy is really, not sugar, was the first. We go into our brain to escape our home. We go into make believe. We go into the what ifs, the could haves. That's a form of fantasy.

Speaker 1:
[34:24] So are you talking about catastrophizing or ruminating about the past? Or are you talking about related to your addiction fantasy?

Speaker 4:
[34:32] All of it. All of it. Because ruminating about what you could have done different, the fantasy of all playing it out again, the what it could have been, or going to the past and going, why didn't it work out this way? Those are both fantasy addictions. So that's the one that's the hardest, is that thinking disease that we've talked about.

Speaker 1:
[34:54] Yeah. And we mistake it for discipline and for the road to betterment. And it's quite the opposite because we need to do the opposite. We may need to say, okay, what are the notes to self to help me grow? And fucking, okay, now what? Rather than just sitting in that shit.

Speaker 4:
[35:17] And then the shame bumbles.

Speaker 1:
[35:19] Right, and so when you're fantasizing about your addiction, what does that look like as comfortable as you are sharing?

Speaker 4:
[35:30] Yeah, so I mean, if I go into fantasy about in my addiction, so it's all relationships for me. So it doesn't matter if it's a man, it doesn't matter if it's a woman, it doesn't matter. I can go into fantasy about people of like, what I should say, how's it gonna go? What if we fell in love? I have to be very careful about what I read, what I watch, what I listen to, all of that because that can play into the fantasy. So like this weekend, this last week, and they, you know, Justin Bieber was on Coachella and I was like, ah, he was singing all those love songs, like, you know, and I was like, ah, and I'm like, nope, don't go there. So it's like, it's not going into it, catching myself, getting back present.

Speaker 1:
[36:15] That's so hard.

Speaker 4:
[36:17] I know, but it's, here's the thing. It's like, when I feel myself in the future or in the past, I immediately now get into the present. So how do you do that? I get into my body. You know, I use those five senses for the DBT five senses, like getting back in my body, getting on the vibration plate, doing jumping jacks, going out in the garden, smelling, getting light on my face. So anything that can get me present, that's what I do. Meditation doesn't work for me. Prayer doesn't even fucking work for me sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't, but it's like, I have to get so in the present, then it zaps away the fantasy.

Speaker 1:
[36:58] Give me an example, if you can think of one specifically, of what you felt physically from the discomfort through whatever the completion of the getting present looked like.

Speaker 4:
[37:19] So the discomfort, it always starts in my body, and that's where the thing is. Like, if I'm talking through someone.

Speaker 1:
[37:24] Is it in your chest? Where is it?

Speaker 4:
[37:26] It's in my shoulders and my neck and my throat. That's where it is for me, and my hips. That gets really tight in my lower back. So those are where the places where I notice, like, I can, my neck starts to crack and I can feel my, it goes, it's almost like a balloon's getting blown up a little bit in my body. And when I start feeling that, I go, okay, we gotta, we gotta like, so it starts in my body, cause all my trauma, the trauma is still stuck in the body. So I feel like the one thing that's helped me the most is that. So that's happened. And then this anger always comes up. So mine turns more into anger than sadness. At people, at yourself, at myself, at the situation. Cause I can go into fantasy or anger about like, what is just occurred. And I don't think it's right, morally right. I can get very self-righteous in that. I can get black and white. So I feel it in my body. And then I go, okay, what do I need right now? Do I need to go drink some water? Do I need to go jump up and down? Do I need to shake it off? You know, that visibly, like you wipe it off your body. Do I need to go in my garden? Do I need to go look at my peach tree? Nature really helps with me cause I have a garden right where my office is. Those things. And as soon as I do those, what happens is like this wash comes over me, and it goes, and I release it. And what also really helps, if it's something I get stuck in, if I know it's like, if I keep going down this, I'm gonna then act out in some way where I'm not emotionally sober anymore. I go to the rage room, the break room. I go break a bunch of shit and scream and get it out of my body. And by the time I'm in the break room, I start bawling and I start hysterically crying. And that happens to me a lot at 3 a.m. as well. So I'll feel it in the day and then when I go to sleep, I'll wake up at 3 a.m. and I just start bawling. So it's allowing my body to release.

Speaker 1:
[39:33] That's so funny that you're mentioning those things because a therapist friend of mine recommended, she knows what's going on with me and she said, have you read the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski? I think I'm pronouncing her name correctly. And I've been reading it and she talks about the cycle of getting through uncomfortable feelings and that they're, you know, it will pass.

Speaker 4:
[40:03] Always.

Speaker 1:
[40:04] Yes. And she's talking about, I imagine it was either Peter Levine or Besser van der Kolk that talked about how animals, when they're traumatized, they almost die. You know, they fall to the ground, they freeze. And then the event passes and their body begins to shake. They get up, they shake it off, and they move on with their lives. And we often don't. Nope.

Speaker 4:
[40:35] No, because they don't teach that. They don't teach us that. And especially this society keeps like trucking on and going on. And yes, that's the same thing. It's like immediately shaking it off, immediately going to that thing, because you don't want to keep the trauma in your body anymore. And so I would say to you, when you went started going through your hard time right now, if we rewind it, what happened before? Like I always go, what happened before this moment? Where was I? How did I get to this almost are slipping, are doing this thing? Because getting on the other side of it, you'll never get stuck. You're never gonna get stuck in that pain, truly. You just get to make the decision when you get out of it.

Speaker 1:
[41:22] It feels like it's gonna last forever. And the fantasy of the oblivion of acting out is so powerful in that moment that it's like the decision has been made by some part of me that feels like a mountain and I am like a grain of sand. Not in a good way. Not in a good way like, oh, the universe is so beautiful. I'm a part of it and I'm not that big of a deal in a good way. But in that moment, it is so, so difficult. And to answer your question, I call it pre-lapse. That has been my biggest struggle is to be honest with myself. You know, in our support group, there's a part of the literature where we talk about, we need the willingness to take everything off the menu that is problematic for us. And I will be dishonest with myself about what I can handle and what I can't. And so for me, and I apologize to the listeners because I've talked about it, this which feels like ad nauseam, but the mean voice in my head begins to tell me the greatest hits, but I'm believing them because the facts on the ground might be, I'm financially struggling or I'm feeling flat and I'm going to feel this way forever. And I think what happened was I came out of a long period that looking back, I think might have been hypomania, but it was delicious. It was, I've never been so creative. I would be in the shop making furniture until two in the morning. Sometimes my fingers would be bleeding and I didn't even realize like they were bleeding because I was so into it. Reading piles of books about woodworking and and I just felt so alive and and I wasn't doing like the manic thing where I'm talking a hundred miles an hour. I'm unable to listen to other people. I was functioning. And when that left, I just felt dead inside. And so I began watching the choosing things on the to watch that I knew were going to give me a jolt. Yeah, not porn, but things where I'm like, oh, this seems like a racy. I got racy. What am I? A hundred years old. I'm three quarters of the way there. And the little voice in my head said, probably not an ideal choice, not you're a bad person for doing this. But of course, it wasn't enough. And then the shame begins to come because all of a sudden, now it's all I'm watching. We're going to take a quick break and see if we have any sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Timeline. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not a big fan of getting older. I worry about my muscles getting weaker. I worry about not being able to bounce back. And I worry about my energy. And Timeline has a formula that they spent 15 years researching mitochondrial health. That's stuff going on down at the cellular level. They've invested 50 million in research and they've conducted multiple human clinical trials. And participants experienced 12% improvement in muscle strength in four months with no change in exercise. So what do you got to lose? I'm trying their Mitopure, which is a supplement containing stuff that helps with all of that. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new lower price. Mitopure now starts at $99 with the exact same science and formula. And you guys, the listeners, can still get 20% off when you go to timeline.com/mental. That's timeline.com/mental. And we'll put the link to that in the show notes. This episode is sponsored by the Jordan Harbinger Show. And Jordan is an awesome guy. He's been a guest on this podcast. I've been a guest on his podcast. And he's a very open guy, very, very smart. And the wheelhouse of his podcast is becoming more informed in proving your critical thinking and being more equipped to deal with how confusing it is to live in our modern world. And he has really fascinating guests. He asks great questions. A couple of episodes that I think you guys would enjoy is his episode. It's episode number 1280. He talks to Cory Doctorow. And the episode title is Why Everything Got Worse and What to Do About It. Oh my god, can I relate to that? And another great episode is episode 1238 with Ken Burns. And the title of the episode is What If the American Revolution Isn't Over. I hope it's not over. Holy shit, do we need a revolution. So show the Jordan Harbinger Show some love. Search for the Jordan Harbinger Show. That's H-A-R-B as in boy, I-N as in Nancy, G-E-R, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we'll put the link to that in the show notes. And then I'm fast forwarding to a scene that I know is gonna give me a jolt, the jolt. And eventually it leads to, you know, well, might as well go right to the, you know.

Speaker 4:
[47:19] Just do it, just full commitment.

Speaker 1:
[47:21] Just full commitment. And when I'm looking at that stuff, it's the searching for it that gets me high. Looking for the perfect.

Speaker 4:
[47:33] It's the chase. We loved the chase back then.

Speaker 1:
[47:36] Yeah, whether it's a person, whether it's, you know, a compulsion or an addiction. And then, you know, the shame, just a dump truck pulls up with the shame. And that's, that's where I'm at.

Speaker 4:
[47:55] And that's a high, too, the dump truck of shame. You know, that's a high, too.

Speaker 1:
[48:00] No.

Speaker 4:
[48:01] Yes, because, so can I act like you're my client right now? Yeah. Okay, great. So if you came to me and said this, I would say, why you got where you got, there wasn't a balance. The woodworking, the being there till 2 a.m., even if it felt good. Even when I'm at the highest of my state, like writing the books, doing my podcast, you know, doing this course, working with, I think at that time I had like 41 clients all over the world. And it's like, to find the balance. When we are out of balance and we are doing one thing more than the other, that becomes a high, even if it's good, even if it's you're making music till 3 a.m., you're not eating, you're not sleeping enough. So anything that's out of balance for me is not good. And that's going to lead to a fall. It always is because it's a form of high being out of balance. And then when you go to the dump truck of shame, that's also in balance because you're leaning too in the dark instead of the light, you know, if you go too far. So it's staying neutral and not getting high at all. I do not get, I know, and everybody hates this. I literally had a client the other day go, is everything just going to be blah, bland?

Speaker 1:
[49:24] Yeah, that's what my brain tells me. And I wouldn't tell you that. I would be like, you can't predict the future. The universe loves you. You just have to tap into that vein that runs through the universe of love, of patience, of all the qualities you want in a person or in yourself. That is there to tap into in the universe. You just need to ride it out. But in that moment, I don't believe that it will happen for me, even though it's happened in the past.

Speaker 4:
[49:58] Yes, but I'm going to even tell you, I would say the first ten years of my sobriety in our program, I was like, oh, this is amazing. And then by like the 15th year, everything is just neutral. Nothing gets me high. No way bottom doesn't get me high, because I know I'm going to get out of it, and I just let it flow through me. And nothing exciting, like the book doing well, or they might make a series out of it. Like there's a bunch of great things. Nothing gets me high. No Chanel bag, no car, no house, no traveling, nothing. And people go, well, what's the fucking point of life, Brianne? And I'm like, to be okay in the blah. To be okay that nothing means anything. Nothing is good.

Speaker 1:
[50:45] That's what a listener wrote to me.

Speaker 4:
[50:47] Yes, nothing is good or bad. Everything is just is. And when you just allow it to be that, and just to be okay in the present with no high at all. No excitement. Nothing.

Speaker 1:
[51:01] But you sometimes do the sugar and the shopping. Yeah, sometimes.

Speaker 4:
[51:06] Yes, but that is an unconscious decision. So this is where I'm going to tell you. When I go, okay, I'm not feeling great. I really want that cookie. And I know I shouldn't probably have that cookie because I don't really need it. What am I trying to escape? Oh, I don't like that last client. She's not doing good. I feel bad I can't help her or something like that. Then I sit with it and I go, okay, I'm gonna and I wait 10 minutes. I always do the pause, the 10 minute pause. And then I go, you know what? I'm still gonna have that cookie. I'm still gonna have it. I'm making a conscious choice to have that cookie. And then I'll eat that cookie. And then it's like, it doesn't fix anything. So I then don't eat the cookie again. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[51:50] The second cookie or later?

Speaker 4:
[51:51] Yeah, the second cookie. No, I allow myself to think about it.

Speaker 1:
[51:54] So you're a quitter.

Speaker 4:
[51:56] I just know that if I eat that second cookie or that third cookie or buy that thing I truly don't need or reach out to a person I know that can't show up for me or go into fantasy about the friendship I had to let go or even turning to my husband, Mark, and being like, you're not complaining me. You know, all those things, I then know that high, that feeling of control or power or like Joel in my nervous system doesn't last. So I haven't taken the steps to still do that. So I would say the last five years, I'm the most emotionally sober, but I still every, like I said, everybody has the isms, but I'm just very conscious about it. I go, oh, I'm purposely numbing out. Let me wait 10 minutes before I do it. And then I can still make the choice to numb out, but it still doesn't get me high because I'm not fucking lying to myself.

Speaker 1:
[52:52] Oh, that's so hard.

Speaker 4:
[52:54] I know, but that's the trick. You cannot lie to yourself. And if you're consciously making the choice to look at that thing, talk to that person, eat that cookie, the high of that moment doesn't last. And then there's like no reward from it. But if I lie to myself and just eat the cookie or the burger or the fries or buy the Chanel bag or talk to a hot guy, whatever it is, the high will take over. But I never lie to myself. I never try to be perfect.

Speaker 1:
[53:35] I think that feels like death.

Speaker 4:
[53:38] It is a death, but it's a beautiful death. It's so freedom. My friend is the most freedom I can tell you.

Speaker 1:
[53:48] And you know what, I have experienced years of that, years of not choosing oblivion and writing it out. But I don't know why it keeps coming back. I have a hunch, and I don't know if I'm lying to myself, but I have a hunch that there is still trauma trapped in my body. And that's the next phase that I'm going to work on. Because I feel like, and I'm seeing a therapist, who I've just started seeing, who does a lot of somatic work. And I did feel some relief from our most recent session. And she was like, okay, get present right now. You know, the first couple of sessions were just me talking about the shame, giving her my history, all of that stuff. And she was so nonjudgmental, so compassionate, so feeling of safety. Then she was like, okay, let's just get quiet right now. What are you feeling in your body? And so I described, I'm feeling my feet flat on the ground, feeling my hands resting in my lap. My chest feels like a vacuum that wants... Mommy, you know? And there's also sexual thoughts mixed in there, so then there's shame. And I hadn't realized this one, and I'm glad you mentioned feeling it in the throat, but I was like, it feels like there is a ring in my throat, and there is just right underneath it, like pressure of sadness that can't come out. Like my body wants to cry, but I'm too numb to be able to do it. And I don't know if the meds are that, or if there's a part of me that's fighting it, but she said, okay, I want you to take a pillow, and I want you to put it in your lap, and I want you to put your arms around it. We're also doing inner child work, which makes me roll my fucking eyes, even though I know it's gonna help. And I began to feel my throat loosen, and I began to feel a dissipation of that vacuum in my chest. And she was like, okay, now I want you to, I don't know if she said, I want you to imagine something, something to do with like the inner child, and all of a sudden, just these good fantasies were coming into my head, the good picturing, like me going back and rescuing that kid, and doing fun things, and both of us feeling empowered. And I was rolling my eyes, because one of the things was, I imagined us, oh, this is so cringey. I imagined me rescuing him, and both of us getting on a white horse, and him behind me, holding me, and we jumped over a fence away from my mean voice.

Speaker 4:
[57:28] Yeah, how beautiful.

Speaker 1:
[57:30] Oh, how awful.

Speaker 4:
[57:32] How beautiful. I had one of those, I pulled up in my young driveway, and went in the house, and took her hand, and walked her out, and put her in a car seat, and put her in, and shut the door, and got in the car. And I, that's where it starts, though. That's the work that needs to do, because it is in your body. If you have not done body work, you are not going to fully heal. You have to do Reiki. You have to do acupuncture. You have to do the break room or rage room. You have to do more than just talk therapy and groups. You have to. It's stuck in our bodies. I'm doing these, like, trauma massages right now. I just started them. And last week, I kid you not, she was massaging the side of my leg, like near my hips. It was so tight. All of a sudden, my body started shaking and hysterical cries came out, hysterical. And all these images of me holding it together, walking through the trauma, walking, I always have to carry it. I always started bawling. I cried for an hour and a half. Wow. Just last week, and this is 17 years of hardcore work, it is in your body. You have to release it. You have to do that inner child work, that internal family system that wears into my body, release it. And then you have to actively do questions and things that even bring it up sometimes, because it's stuck in our body. I mean, our trauma problem, mine happened at four years old, six years old. Yours, I know, happened very young as well. It's like, that shit gets stuck. So all the talk therapy in the world is not going to release it.

Speaker 1:
[59:17] Yeah. It's so much of mine is in my pelvis, my groin, the medical traumas, the just being treated, you know, I would call the doctor sadistic. I don't think intentionally sadistic, but...

Speaker 4:
[59:42] I think so. If to do that to a child, and you and I have talked about it, I know what you're talking about, there is sediction or there is perversion and stuff when you treat a child like that, even in a medical. That coldness, that harshness. Do you know what I'm saying? I do think we truly don't look at what happened, even though he could have had his own traumas. Like sometimes people do those things and there's a darkness behind it, but that darkness gets trapped in us and we have to release it.

Speaker 1:
[60:16] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the next phase for me.

Speaker 4:
[60:24] I am prescribing it to you even though I'm not your therapist.

Speaker 1:
[60:27] Yeah. And there's a part of me that, I don't know, feels dirty, is too strong of a word, but it's so loaded with complicated feelings and memories that, I don't know, it's, it's, I think that that's going to be the next part of it. I don't think it's just, oh, I'll do, I'll do this and it's, you know, it's going to be a parade and everything's going to be okay. And I'm not going to judge myself.

Speaker 4:
[61:15] And I know, but that's what I want to say. It's like, you know, my story, right? You know, I've done mean, mean things. I think I'm actually more sadistic and perverted probably than you. Like if we actually looked at our thing, not even the actions, it's the intention behind the actions, right? And I, I do believe I have a darker side than you do. And because I've heard you, why can't I not judge myself and know that it's a part of my survival? Right? And if I could rewind it back now, I wouldn't do those things. But with you right now, you're so stuck on that there is something wrong with you when there is not. I think that's also the key for you to look at it. It's like you want to keep this belief that you're dirty or perverted or horrible person and don't deserve to be happier, like just at peace. Like there's a part of you that wants to believe that. Why do you want to believe it so deeply when you're sitting in front of someone that did the same kind of shit you did?

Speaker 1:
[62:26] That's really comforting to hear you say that about yourself.

Speaker 4:
[62:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[62:33] You know, going back to the recovery pedestal thing that I put you on. It's funny, there was just an intuition I had when I picked up the phone to call you and I was like, this field with the book that you have out and what I'm struggling with and the history of our friendship and transparency. I was like, oh, this isn't a mistake. This might be the next part of the growth for me. That will probably also help other people who are listening or who I might share with in a support group meeting. Not that I will be the answer for them, but they will feel comfort in that moment. They will feel less alone, and I've already gotten feedback from people in my support group and listeners who have been like, you helped me. You're talking about your shame and going back to some of your old habits and your old tools for coping. I'm experiencing the same thing. It's so comforting. And it's not like I'm happy that that's happening for them, but I'm happy that I'm reminded that there's another member of the Three-Legged Dog Club.

Speaker 4:
[64:02] But we're not three-legged dogs.

Speaker 1:
[64:04] Oh, I have such a hard time picturing. I know.

Speaker 4:
[64:08] That's the way I wanna like, you know when you see someone and they're in that, those thoughts and you wanna shake them because they're not seeing the beauty of them and they're just wallowing in this dark, dark, dirty old thoughts that no longer serve them. That's what I wanna do. I wanna shake you right now and go, Paul, what are you talking about? You're amazing. You got out of balance. You got out of balance. That is it. And now you getting out of balance is your God telling you there's different work to do. It is in your body. Because if I go back to the time where you were in the mania or that there's a part of you that was wanting to escape your body in that moment and create this heightened state of creativity that can become an addiction, just like someone wanting to hike Mount Everest, exercising every day, jumping out of planes. That's a heightened state of reality. So your body was doing something where it wanted to create this narrative of, I'm so creative right now. I've gotten in that. Do you see what I'm saying? And felt like, ah. And now you're like, it swung to the pendulum, to the darkness. And I'm sitting there going, that is the same addiction. Get back to the middle. It was just God telling you, it's time to do now the deeper work, to stay neutral. So nothing outside of you rocks you, even your brain. Cause your brain is wanting to kill you spiritually. And I'm not going to let it. You're not horrible. You're not dirty. You're not, I'm not better than you. I've just done some other work you haven't done yet. And you can do it.

Speaker 1:
[66:01] I'm gonna. I'm gonna.

Speaker 4:
[66:05] Cause you deserve it. You're amazing. You're an amazing man. You're an amazing human. You give to so many people. Your story helps so many people. Even you being in the darkness right now is gonna help people. Every moment I hit another level of pain, I talk about it and share it because I don't, I want to move through it and then share it so it helps somebody else. And you do that all the time.

Speaker 1:
[66:32] That is not hard for me to take in. And that feels good because I don't feel like you're bullshitting me. I don't think you're bullshitting me.

Speaker 4:
[66:42] I don't bullshit anybody.

Speaker 1:
[66:43] I don't, yes. And that's one of the reasons I think I really find comfort in our relationship because when you tell me something that is loving and compassionate, I believe you. Some of it may be difficult for me to take in, but that's my issue. That's not me questioning you or your motives or what you believe in.

Speaker 4:
[67:09] But I can't lie. I'm not allowed to bullshit. I'm not allowed to lie. That is part of my sobriety. I was such a liar before. I lied to myself and lied to others. So I cannot lie. So anything I say to you, it's coming from the most honest, authentic place that you, the hardness you are in yourself, is part of your addiction. It's part of how you get high and you disconnect from the world. And I want to get you back connected. Because you matter.

Speaker 1:
[67:45] Let's talk about your book.

Speaker 4:
[67:46] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[67:48] What can people expect when they read it?

Speaker 4:
[67:52] Yeah, so the first book, you can read them separately or together. I really made them their own story, but it carries on the story of Roxanne. Fictional character based on me, but a lot of stuff is fiction. And I wanted to do Becoming My Own F-ing Soulmate because that is the journey. We are born with ourself and we die with ourself. We have to be our own soulmate. So you see the character Roxanne. It's a fun fictional, a lot of recovery, a lot of things to heal yourself. A lot of work is in the book, and it goes through these 10 rules that she goes by now to become her own best soulmate. And she's dating. She's healthy dating, which is in Los Angeles. That's a nightmare. So you get to go through hell. There's even a chapter. It's like you're going to hit hell no matter if you're trying to get it. There's a dark night of the soul, which I've had multiple dark nights of the soul, where you feel like you're dying and you become a different person. There's loss in there. There's death in there because as you know, we have had death in our program. So I really tried to capture the characters and her going through a journey of healing and very bumpy and a lot of bottoming out and getting on the other side of it, and loving yourself. I wanted to make it really fun to read. You're going to laugh a lot, you're going to cringe a lot, you're going to hear the inner voice a lot. I'm just really proud of it. I'm actually more proud of this book than the first book, because it goes even deeper. So everything I write and do, I want to be revealed, I want to be authentic, I want to be raw, I will no holds bars, I will say it all even when I get embarrassed. Like I recorded the audio book as you know. Oh my God, a fucking nightmare. I did it eight, three Saturdays for eight hours a day. And I literally was crawling out of my skin. I was reliving everything. So I'm really proud of it. I'm proud of what I put out there. I'm proud of the stories I tell to help people and that they can find entertainment and heal and learn.

Speaker 1:
[69:57] What are the moments that made you crawl out of your skin the most? We are gonna take one last quick break and see if we have any sponsors.

Speaker 4:
[70:07] I think some of the slips that Roxanne goes through, she masturbates on an airplane and gets caught. She goes back to her toxic ex. I don't want to give too much away, but there was some really heavy moments of shame and guilt. You know better and you do it anyways because you're in so much pain, you want to escape it and she goes through that. And then the part where the loss happens and the passing happened, when I was recording it, I actually started crying and the editor left it in.

Speaker 1:
[70:43] Really?

Speaker 4:
[70:44] Yeah, and then at the end of the book I cry too and they left it in. Normally they take that out because they want it just to be read well and they didn't, they kept it in. So it was just a really hard journey.

Speaker 1:
[70:57] I have to listen to it. I have the PDF.

Speaker 4:
[71:01] Listen to the audio.

Speaker 1:
[71:02] I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna do that now because the reason I resisted reading it is I felt like it was gonna be school.

Speaker 4:
[71:14] Well, that's what most of the recovery books in general, support group books, they all feel like school and I hate reading them. I would read a page and throw it against the wall. Yeah, and so that's why I wrote it fiction so anybody can read it and go, I sent it to my massage therapist even though she doesn't struggle with anything I struggle with and she was like, oh my god, this is like seven of my friends, I'm gonna give them all this book because it's like anybody can grab it and go, oh, I have that friend, oh, that's my family member, oh, that's me, oh, I did that, oh, I stayed in that, oh, I went back to that toxicity. So I really wanted to write something that is fun and entertaining and anybody can learn from and it doesn't feel like you're reading a textbook.

Speaker 1:
[71:58] So I imagine the woman who was masturbating on the plane was the pilot.

Speaker 4:
[72:02] Yes, of course, always.

Speaker 1:
[72:06] And where can people get the book and specifically the audio book?

Speaker 4:
[72:13] Amazon is the easiest place because it's easy to download but you can get it anywhere.

Speaker 1:
[72:17] And you're supporting the devil, which is always nice.

Speaker 4:
[72:20] I know, the devil.

Speaker 1:
[72:21] I shop all the time at it and I feel guilty every time I'm doing it but I'm like, I need that thing in seven hours.

Speaker 4:
[72:29] I need it in three hours. I know it is part of our world that I wish was different but I do have to say it's like even though social media and the accessibility to things isn't great because we're not teaching patience but it's also if you need that thing to help you right now, you can easily download it and then get it. Now, do we need a whole shift in the society and world? 100% we do but here's what I'm going to say about that because this is important to me because on my podcast Secret Life that you've been on, all the darkness has to come up for change to happen. So, darkness is rising, greediness is rising, pain is rising, pettiness, torture, all that perversion is rising up that's always fucking been there. It's been there and now it's rising so we actually have to look at it as a humanity and go we gotta change. So, I always say in these darkest times like your darkest times or mine or the world's darkest times, it's like it has to get so bad for actually change to occur. So, that's how I'm keeping my eyes on.

Speaker 1:
[73:44] And I forget that.

Speaker 4:
[73:45] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[73:46] I forget that. And I forget that the darkness coming up is not the authentic me. That's baggage, scars, learned behavior and that's not to throw my parents under the bus. Yeah, there was trauma. Yeah, there was abuse. There was neglect. But I know deep in their hearts, they were loving people doing, it's a cliche, but doing the best that I could, that they could. And I try to remember that.

Speaker 4:
[74:24] Yeah. And here's the thing, it's like, if they would have known better and done better, they probably could have. And my parents are the same as yours. We talked about it. And it's like, I forgave them. But first you have to feel it. First you have to let it out.

Speaker 1:
[74:42] And I do feel that.

Speaker 4:
[74:43] I know you do. But now it's the deeper level.

Speaker 1:
[74:47] It's me. I need to stop judging.

Speaker 4:
[74:51] Yes. And to get the trauma out of your, it's like poison in your body and you keep allows in the poison to hurt your brain. And it's like, you have to let that out to then get to the other side of full freedom.

Speaker 1:
[75:06] And then here's the other thing that the mean part of my brain does is if I'm moving forward in being self-compassionate or facing whatever it is that I'm doing in trying to move forward, the mean part of my brain then says, yeah, but you're not doing it right. You're obsessing about yourself too much. You're caught in your story. You want attention. You know, you don't want to grow. You just want attention. And that's where I'm at today. You know, there's a part of me that is going to cringe, even though I know this has been helpful for me and it's going to be helpful for people listening to it. There is a part of me that is so terrified that people are going to hear it and go, Oh my God, he's talking about himself again.

Speaker 4:
[76:07] But that's why they're listening. Just so you know. But why aren't you the most important person in your life? I'm the most important person in my life. That's not selfish. My healing isn't selfish. My healing makes me better on this planet. And you being selfish in your healing is the most important. I have an eight-year-old, right? So I'm a mother. And I am still number one in my life over my son, over my husband. They are both going to leave me. So my healing and taking care of myself is number fucking one.

Speaker 1:
[76:41] What do you mean they're going to leave you?

Speaker 4:
[76:43] My son is going to go off.

Speaker 1:
[76:45] Oh, okay.

Speaker 4:
[76:45] He's going to go out in the world.

Speaker 1:
[76:47] Well, where's your husband going?

Speaker 4:
[76:49] He might pass. Who knows?

Speaker 1:
[76:51] Oh, gotcha.

Speaker 4:
[76:51] Like Mark might pass before me or he might decide one day he doesn't love me. Who knows? I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller. I'm not God. And it's like I am number one. And if I'm not taking care of myself and I'm not balancing, if I'm not resting, if I'm not eating well, if I'm not going to my meetings, if I'm not doing my gratitude list at night, if I'm not hitting my knees every morning and every night because my son comes in, I have to go, no, I'm doing my meditation right now. I'm doing my prayers. Like, hold on. I'm that's not selfish. I am the most important person to myself on this planet. My voice matters the most. Now, am I better than anybody else? No. Do I mean more than anyone else on this planet? No. But I am number one. And that is becoming your own effing soulmate. You are number one. And healing yourself is the best thing, the best gift you can give yourself. Is it hard? Yes. Does it suck? Is it wrapped in shit sometimes? Yes. But it's most important. And I think when I got out of my ego and gave it over to God, I'm healing. And you, God, tell me where I need to go next. You direct my day. You tell me what I should do. And letting it be that, and it's not even me. It took that perfectionist, I'm selfish. Why am I not giving to people more and all of that? Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:
[78:23] It does. And I want you to talk to the listener who is saying to themselves, you know, the whole God thing is this bullshit.

Speaker 4:
[78:32] Totally.

Speaker 1:
[78:34] You lost me right there. What if anything can they?

Speaker 4:
[78:42] Grab onto.

Speaker 1:
[78:43] Grab onto that feels authentic to them. Where they don't feel like they're bullshitting themselves.

Speaker 4:
[78:48] Yeah. So let me be very clear. I am not religious. I am spiritual. I did not believe in God. If you used to talk to me about God, even at our meetings, I would laugh. I would block it out. I am not a Bible-thumping God person at all. When I talk about God, I talk about the universe. It's the universe. It's nature. It's something bigger than me. It's who created the ocean, who created something bigger to me, who made you and I meet. Do you get what I'm saying? Whenever I talk about it, I will turn myself over to this chair because this chair can sometimes make better decisions than me. If I'm in charge, I will create chaos. I will become egotistical. I will think I'm better than. I will hurt people. Do you see what I'm saying? So this chair next to me can make a better decision for my life than me sometimes. So turning my life over to anything.

Speaker 1:
[79:48] Unaided, you mean?

Speaker 4:
[79:49] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[79:50] Without tapping in to something else.

Speaker 4:
[79:53] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[79:53] You are capable of making better decisions than that chair, obviously.

Speaker 4:
[79:59] Yes, but I still like to go, whoever is out there, whatever bigger thing is out there, connecting us all, you take over my life and direct me. Because if I am the one doing it consciously, I will be in my ego. But I know, I have tools. I know.

Speaker 1:
[80:22] And that's what turning it over looks like for you?

Speaker 4:
[80:25] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[80:25] No matter how skin crawly and unsatisfying it might feel.

Speaker 4:
[80:29] Oh, it's always skin crawly and unsatisfying and blah and bored and not as exciting. But then it gets peaceful. I love living in peace and serenity. And that is what that path gets me. And if it's about anything, so I have to have something bigger than me or my ego will take over. And I think I think I'm like a special and unique and I'm not. I'm one of every other human on this planet.

Speaker 1:
[81:01] You know, as you're as you're sharing that, it just kind of occurred to me, you know, I experience a lot of peace in my life. I have I've experienced a lot of serenity in my life. It had never occurred to me until you just said that, that there might be a deeper level of peace and serenity that I hadn't imagined. I had always when I was at my best thought this will be as good as it gets. And it just occurred to me in this moment that maybe this is the doorway for this next layer of the onion that will make it easier for me to use the right tool when the discomfort comes up.

Speaker 4:
[81:52] Yes. So I love that you just said that because it just hit me that I know I'm never done. There's no ever even if I feel the best or I'm in a good place, I know there's another level of healing. I know the evolution is always happening. There's no I'm done. Okay, stamp me. I'm good. When I think that, then I go back into my ego. It's always, it's a continuous thing. The healing is continuous.

Speaker 1:
[82:21] A fucking ego is such a shape shifting motherfucking camouflaged.

Speaker 4:
[82:29] I know, but you see those people that are in the mental health field or they're spiritual or they're doing the Ted talks and you can see they're in their ego. And I look at that and I never want to be that. I am not better than you. I'm not better than anyone else. I'm always healing. I am always evolving. It's the work is never done. And if I ever think the work is done, that's the place I will go. And that's dangerous for people like me and you. So that's the thing you are constantly, even if you do this deep healing, what you're doing, that even when you get to the place of surrounding peace, there's gonna be another layer coming.

Speaker 1:
[83:11] Yeah, another layer of ego that wants to attach itself like a barnacle to the successes and the failures.

Speaker 4:
[83:19] And they mean nothing.

Speaker 1:
[83:21] Yes, I'm the king or I'm the worst piece of shit in the village. And the reality, which is terrifying to the ego, is that I'm one of many. And that's where the beauty and the connection and the healing lies. But when that dump truck of shame, you know.

Speaker 4:
[83:40] Well, I want you to do the writing work. So I give this to a lot of my clients. You're like, shut up, Brianne. But where am I the shit and where am I a piece of shit? And you do it in columns and you see like, wow.

Speaker 1:
[83:53] Are you gonna send me a worksheet?

Speaker 4:
[83:54] Yeah, I can send you, yeah. I'll send it to you. And then you have to fill it out and go, here's where I think I'm the shit and a piece of shit. When you look at them together, the duality of your brain swinging to both those places and neither of those places are true.

Speaker 1:
[84:09] Oh, you know what I'm gonna do? For the Patreon people, I'm gonna post that and ask them if they're comfortable to share that in the thread.

Speaker 4:
[84:21] Okay, great.

Speaker 1:
[84:22] I love it. And then read those on the podcast. I think people would love that.

Speaker 4:
[84:28] Yeah, it's a great question.

Speaker 1:
[84:30] I would love that.

Speaker 4:
[84:31] And no, and I'm gonna have you do it because it really has you see the duality of your brain and the two places you swing and neither one of those is true. And so you get to see it in clear view. And that's why that writing work, not just talk therapy, writing work, journal questions.

Speaker 1:
[84:49] Which I have been doing.

Speaker 4:
[84:50] Good.

Speaker 1:
[84:50] Yeah, and I am confronting the mean voice in my head. My therapist.

Speaker 4:
[84:55] Did you give it a name?

Speaker 1:
[84:57] The mean. Oh, yeah, I had years ago. It's mean DJ voice and he talks like a morning DJ from the Midwest.

Speaker 4:
[85:04] So when you hear it, do you talk to him, though? So when the mean voice takes over, I have people talk like one girl had her name is her mean voice is Veronica, like the mean teenager, like Archie and Veronica comic books. That's old school. But anyways, you get what I'm saying. And she literally be like, Veronica, stop. You're not. That's not true. Stop. And she actually talks and it quiets the voice. It's like in that inner child, inner voice trauma work that that really helps as well. Give it a name.

Speaker 1:
[85:35] I think, yeah, I have I have a name for it.

Speaker 4:
[85:38] I'm telling other people to give it a name.

Speaker 1:
[85:41] But the work that my therapist has me doing is writing what the the young part of me wants to say, then writing what the adult me says to him, and then writing what the mean voice in my head is saying about all this, and then write what the adult me is saying to the mean voice. And yeah, I feel like that is a part of the next layer of work, because I almost never talk to the young part of me. And one of the first things my therapist said, you know, when I just started vomiting stuff up, you know, and saying, you know, as cringey as it is, I want a mommy, you know? And she's like, it sounds like, you know, this is a young part of you. And he wanted, wants to sexualize everything, probably because his wires got crossed, being sexualized as a child, having the medical trauma that had to do with his genitals, et cetera, et cetera. And he wants to control that. And she was so, it's not surprising, but so nonjudgmental about it that I was like reminded that, yeah, that's gonna be the next level of work for me to do is to connect with that part of me. And it makes me roll my eyes. Wouldn't, if you were telling me, I'd be like, yay.

Speaker 4:
[87:29] No, because my mean voice, it used to say, you're a loser, you're a loser, you're a loser, you're a loser. And I woke up at 3 a.m. one time, I think this was last year or the year before, I can't remember. And when it was happening, I woke up and it, it was banging in my head at 3 a.m. And I was sitting there going, no, you're not. This is not true. And I was hysterically crying and said, this voice in my head, and Mark was next to me, you're a loser, you're a loser, you're a loser. And I'm like, not, this voice is not true anymore. I don't want this voice. This is, there's, there's no evidence on the outside that I'm a loser. It's in my head, wanting me to believe, to get back to the place I was when I was a child, because that was known, and this serenity and peace is more unknown. So when those voices come up, it's like, you have to talk back to them to tell them it's not real, because you're starting the rewire. And another thing I love to do, and I wanted to give this to you as well, is the four questions. Have you heard those? Okay, so the first question is, is it true? What your voice is saying, so if we do mine, I can do yours. Is it true? Tell me something your voice says to you.

Speaker 1:
[88:43] You're an attention whore.

Speaker 4:
[88:44] Okay, is it true?

Speaker 1:
[88:47] I wanna say no, but I don't know if I believe it.

Speaker 4:
[88:51] Okay, so let's say maybe or yes. Then you go to the second question, and you go, is it absolutely true without a doubt?

Speaker 1:
[89:00] No.

Speaker 4:
[89:01] So then you go to the third question, and you go, if I believe this to be true, what do I get from it? What happens to my body? So tell me what.

Speaker 1:
[89:12] It's, I'm getting buried by a dump truck of horse shit, and it renders me unhelpful to myself, unhelpful to others, inauthentic, and filled with more self-obsession and self-pity, regardless of whether in reality that is there or not. So it's gasoline for whatever that voice is that I'm struggling with, and not knowing whether or not it's true.

Speaker 4:
[89:50] Great. So the fourth question, if you didn't have this belief, if you didn't have this thought, what would your life feel like? What would you feel like? What would your body feel like? What would be your thoughts?

Speaker 1:
[90:01] I'd feel free. I would feel empowered. I would feel more present. I would not feel the grip of needing oblivion, whether it's woodworking or, you know, watching a movie that's going to give me a jolt or looking at pornography, you know.

Speaker 4:
[90:31] You would be free. You would be lighter. You would be okay. So that, those four questions start to rewire because you're looking at, if I have this thought, this is the horribleness I feel. If I don't have this thought, this is the lightness. And it gets you to stop ruminating. It gets the voice to quiet. And the more you do those four questions, and allow that voice to be heard like back, like I said, it rewires your brain.

Speaker 1:
[90:59] It's so funny, we were talking about like the universe, higher power, etc. And it just occurred to me, that is the door to connect to that thing. It doesn't have to be, oh Lord, bless thee.

Speaker 4:
[91:15] Save me. No, it's just simply that. And that gets you connected to you, to something bigger than you, and to everything else. And out of your thinking, because your thinking wants to kill you sometimes. Just like my thinking wants to kill me.

Speaker 1:
[91:33] Anything else you want to share?

Speaker 4:
[91:35] I think that I'm just so grateful for you, grateful for our friendship, grateful to be there for you in moments you need. And you have been there for me, just a pillar. And I just, I want everyone else, I guess in this world right now, since the world is struggling a lot, to feel this connected in an authentic way. And also to look at their healing, to know even if you're the darkest times, there's always a way out. And you just have to be willing to go through that discomfort and pain to get to the other side of it. Because if you keep creating pain, there's, all that's gonna give you is more pain. So I think just having this conversation is reminding, like, through the darkness there is light.

Speaker 1:
[92:21] Where can people find you, and especially if you have any room to take on more clients to coach them?

Speaker 4:
[92:29] Oh gosh, it's pretty full right now, but I always leave my door open. I'm never like, oh, I'm completely full. Because even if I can meet with someone once a month or two times a month, just to get them started, I'm always open to work with anybody.

Speaker 1:
[92:42] And you do that mostly virtually?

Speaker 4:
[92:44] Yes, I work all over the world. I do nine sessions a day, so I cannot meet people in person. It's not possible. They have to pay a lot of money to meet in person, but I just will make myself available for anyone. If anybody wants to reach out, you can find me. The easiest way is on Instagram, because I respond to a lot of DMs. It's at the Brianne Davis. You can go to Secret Life Podcast and get the email there. You can go to briannedaviscoach.com and my information is all there. The books are all Secret Life of a Hollywood Sex and Love Attic, Becoming My Own Effing Soulmate, Amazon, all over. You can go get that in many different languages. And I just want to help people because it helps me stay sober and emotionally sober.

Speaker 1:
[93:34] I love you, friend.

Speaker 4:
[93:36] Love you, too.

Speaker 1:
[93:37] So grateful for her. And really grateful for those of you who've been sending really nice feedback because, you know, my head's doing a number on me. It has got me in a full Nelson. And I know I'm going to get through this, but it's draining. And, yeah, we're not going to do surveys this week. I don't know when we're going to start doing surveys again, but we will. But at this point right now, my bandwidth is just very, very limited. And so, yeah, that's where we're at. And I wish I had something pithy to end this with, but I don't. You know, because I know that you are like me and that's comforting to know that whether or not my external circumstances match yours or not, you know, the feelings that I'm going through right now and how fucking uncomfortable they are and the gasoline that that is for the mean voice in our heads. And so, if you're relating to it, I just want to step outside of my bullshit for a second and say, I understand. I understand. And there is going to be a way out for both of us because I have experienced it before. And I know it will happen again. And there's usually going to be some good stuff on the other side as long as we just keep communicating with our tribe, getting honest, and seeking the help that we need. And I'm proud of myself that I have been doing that. And that's something, you know? And you can do that too. And just never forget that you're not alone. And thanks for listening. Everybody I know is bizarrely beautiful. Everybody I know is bizarrely beautiful. Everybody I know is bizarrely beautiful.

Speaker 2:
[96:14] Hi, I am Mandy Moore.

Speaker 3:
[96:16] Sterling K. Brown. And I'm Chris Sullivan. And we host the podcast That Was Us, now on Headgum.

Speaker 2:
[96:21] Each episode, we're gonna go into a deep dive from our show This Is Us. We're gonna go episode by episode. We're also gonna pepper in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors. Are we gonna cry?

Speaker 3:
[96:36] Yes. Little bit.

Speaker 2:
[96:37] Are we gonna laugh?

Speaker 3:
[96:38] A lot. A whole lot. That's what I'm hoping, man. Listen to That Was Us on your favorite podcast app or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify. New episodes every Tuesday.