transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hey, what do you say, ladies and gentlemen? Dan and I are excited to introduce our Buy Me a Coffee page. We've had a lot of listeners reach out and say, hey there, bub, we really appreciate what you do and want to support the show. Well, here's one way to do that without big corporations taking, I don't know, 30% of the cut of your generosity. Just head over to www.buymeacoffee.com/bigbluebanter and chip in if you'd like to support us directly. Every contribution means a lot, and it helps keep the show going strong. We appreciate each and every one of you. Thanks for listening and have a lovely day.

Speaker 2:
[00:35] Welcome back. It's the Big Blue Banter, New York Giants Football Podcast. I'm Dan Schneier. Joined, so is my co-host, Nick Falato. Tonight, we are here to recap day one for the Giants 2020 Second NFL Draft and then provide our favorite picks and our favorite targets and explain why for day two of the Giants Draft. And as it stands right now, Nick, the Giants stayed at five and picked, they stayed at 10 and picked, and they are staying currently at 37. Though we will discuss the option of trading back from 37 as well. There are always opportunities to trade back at 37. Giants did it a few years ago in a similar range when they traded back twice and ultimately took Wendell Robinson while acquiring more draft picks along the way. Now as far as today went, picks five and 10. The Giants are really convicted on these picks we learned in the post draft. First of all, we learned it during the draft. The Giants wasted no time when it came to drafting Arville Reese at number five overall. If you listen to the people who were at the draft, they said the pick was in almost immediately when the Giants went on the clock at five. Then even more immediately when the Giants were on the clock at 10 at the ninth pick was made, the pick was in Francis Maui Noah. Within seconds, similar to flashbacks to Dave Gettleman, making his picks and ultimately you can go against that. I'm making the Barclay pick. I should say you can go against that and say it's not the greatest process. But when it comes to these players, when you're as convicted as you are on your board and after the draft, they told us that they got two of their five best players in the class. And then more specifically, they said Arvel Reese was their number one player rated in the class. That's also by the way, Dane Bruegler's number one player rated in the class, Arvel Reese. He was this number one overall player. When you're that convicted, I can't go against that, Nick, especially when you're drafting players at premium positions who impact the game in the line of scrimmage. And in a lot of ways, they're two of the most physical players in the entire draft class. If you really look at it, would you argue that these are two of the most physical players in the class? I feel like when I watched them on tape, they were two of the most physical players I watched in the entire class.

Speaker 1:
[02:37] Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. Especially when you're talking about like pound for pound for Arval Reiss, because he's like 240-ish pounds, a little bit more. But as John Harbaugh and Joe Shane said, moving him to off-ball linebacker is much different than just playing edge. But you can go through his tape, man. He has really surprisingly strong edge tape when it comes to like... He's one of the more physical 240-pound head rushers I've ever studied, I've ever seen. He's not just somebody who's going to get bitched or moved around. So pound for pound, I'm right there with you. And as long as the back stuff checks out, which Joe Shane and John Harbaugh said, I mean, they had somebody on their staff now who worked medical at the University of Miami who knows about the issue. And they said, they're not worried about the issue with Francis Maliano is back. It's not a surprise. He's not going to move him inside the guard, which they said, even though he has flexibility to play right tackle. But it's not a surprise for all the reasons that we have laid out. The fact that John Harbaugh has brought up, we want a strong offensive line. It's a work in progress. He was using all that rhetoric pre-draft. And we know that JMS and Runyon probably won't be on the roster next year. And we don't have a right guard right now. So selecting Francis Malionno is not a surprise. And look, and we'll talk about this, I love Caleb Downs. He was like my number one. He was my favorite player. And now, and same with Sonny Styles, but you can get that because Arval Reiss, we didn't expect him to be there at five. The Giants are going to have to play both those guys twice a year in the division. And these picks are always going to be compared. But at the end of the day, I still see the vision and understand why the New York Giants made these picks. And Dan, I think you're frozen at the moment.

Speaker 2:
[04:10] Hopefully, I'm not frozen.

Speaker 1:
[04:12] Audio's fine. You're coming good.

Speaker 2:
[04:14] Yeah, been having tech difficulties all night. I'm just looking at a comment that we got in from Cy. Who was it? Cy, yeah, I didn't see any of these Malik Neighbors quotes. Have you seen? Apparently, Malik Neighbors, I just realized, was on a draft stream for Bleacher Report, making comments about a lot of things. He, I don't know if this is true. This can't be true. He was pissed at the Cowboys took Caleb Downs. He said, I'd rather not have to play against him again. That bro is really, really good. I maybe wanted the Giants take him. I don't think he was too happy with the Giants picks. In response to the Reese pick, he said, where do you play? So I didn't even see these. I'm sorry to, we'll get to that when we get to the Supers, Nick, but I don't know, did you have any comments on, did you hear about these Neighbors quotes?

Speaker 1:
[04:58] No, I did not. And I mean, I'm just scrolling through them. That's never a good look, but I'd like to get my ears on them. Maybe I will as we continue on through this. But Chad, if anybody has really, has heard that, because it's coming in right now, please report your thoughts on it and we'll opine once we get our ears on it.

Speaker 2:
[05:15] Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, with regards to that, but let's get back to these picks. I wanted to start with Arvel Reiss, who is a player who, as you broke down, the Giants obviously loved, they had him as their number one player. I said earlier today, Nick, this morning, when I tweeted out my thoughts on the draft, I said, when it comes down to it at five overall, I'm between Reiss and Stiles. And I said, I lean Stiles. But my lean towards Stiles, Nick, was mostly based on the fact that I thought Stiles was a better fit for what the Giants need, given that they have Kavon Dibbido, Abdul Carter, and Brian Burns. But now we've learned from Harbaugh in the post-draft situation that Reiss is gonna play linebacker, at least to start. He's gonna play, they even said he might play a little stack linebacker, which I was surprised to hear, but he's mostly gonna start as that will linebacker, and they're gonna move Edmonds over to the stack linebacker position, which is really interesting to see, and from that standpoint, when I think about it, it's like I was leaning towards Stiles mostly because I thought he fit what we needed better, but Reiss was the better player, I think, overall, or at least was going into the draft. We'll see what happens with Stiles. He has a long way to go and could grow into one of the better players in the NFL. So can I think Reiss, you know? He was number one rated player on Dame Brugger's board for a reason. I saw something that was really interesting, I thought, and it was from, who is this? I'm trying to find this. I was finding it earlier. It was from, well, this is from Brugger. He said, it's hard to find versatile defenders with this. This is from Huddle IQ, who said that his combination, and they kind of are like an analytics site, Huddle IQ. His combination, they believe he's the ultimate weapon in this class. He had a 30.8% stop percentage, a 2.0 yards after tackle per attempt. So that speaks to his power and physicality, and a 64.4% solo tackle success. So does a good job of tackling when he gets a chance in one-on-one. It's physical when he gets the opportunity, and players don't move that far. And he told, I believe he told, I forgot who this was, but he told a quote from Arville Reese was, the Giants told me they're going to get unique with how they use me. They said they're going to use me in a bunch of different ways. I'm looking forward to that. So am I, Nick. I'm looking forward to how Denar Wilson is going to use him.

Speaker 1:
[07:18] Yeah, 100%. You can use Abdul Carter in the same way. But like they kind of made a point in the post draft. It was like, hey, like he's going to be a linebacker, but this is going to be a multiple front defense, how they employ a lot of this personnel again, some of it being interchangeable because these are really good athletes. So you just add good athletes who know how to play football to your front seven, who can be interchangeable pieces between linebacker and edge. I wonder if this selection though, if you want to focus Reese more specifically at the linebacker position, does that give more snaps to Abdul Carter? Because last year Abdul Carter, remember he was being used middle linebacker a lot, spy, I think Reese can do that as well. And then you factor in Kavon and is you're going to be your NASCAR package. Now, we'll talk about the PIC 37 a little bit, but right now, Dexter Lawrence ain't there. If the Giants signed DJ Reader, your NASCAR package is going to be what? Reader, or whoever your best interior rusher is, which might be Darius Alexander, depending on how his trajectory, if it ascends or not. But Kavon can get kicked inside too. And you can get all these guys on the fields in those high leverage critical, like third and sixth and shorter type of situations.

Speaker 2:
[08:28] Yeah, exactly. I want to talk about a few... Sorry, I just got to answer that. That's annoying. I want to talk about a few... Sorry, I got a little work message. I apologize to the listeners. I want to talk about a few quotes that I dug up from, I believe, Bruce Feldman, whose college football has the Bruce Feldman Freak List. And these are from defensive line coaches. He has four defensive line coaches, his thoughts on this class. And that was Arville Reese and Texas Tech's David Bailey. They wanted to know who was the best, who they would have chosen of those four of those two players. Three of the four would have chosen Arville Reese over David Bailey.

Speaker 1:
[09:06] I would have as well.

Speaker 2:
[09:07] I'm sorry?

Speaker 1:
[09:08] I would as well.

Speaker 2:
[09:10] I would have taken styles over Bailey. I would have taken a lot of players over Bailey personally. The first defensive line coach said, he's the best of the bunch, Reese he's talking about. He has everything, the violence, the power, the strike, the length, the bend, the acceleration, his pro day was so impressive. He's the best defensive player in the class for sure. He's the best end defender I've seen in a few years. I'm not sure about pure pass rush, but best end defender. Yes. I think what he means by that is he can set the edge in the run game. He's the more complete edge defender. Another D line coach in college football said, I think he's the best. He thinks Reese is a tad more athletic than Bailey. He's pretty dynamic, but I just put him at one position and let him be. Learn it. Watch his film. A lot of it is off ball. When you come to the league, you got to have clean eyes right away. I think the Giants are going to do that to start. They're going to move around, but they're mostly going to play him off ball at linebacker. Another defensive line coach that talked to Feldman said, he's so raw, he has everything. He had the burst, the bend and the power, but everything is new to him. So you have to explain to him, this is what you work and this is why you're working on it. I don't know what that means. But once you tell him why he's made that mistake, you could see on tape that he's not making that mistake again. Then finally, the last D-line coach said he's an elite pass rusher. He feels that way already. He's a cleaner fit. Arville's upside is rare. His pass rush is from the blitzes. He's just raw. You understand why he's a one-year start. He's super explosive in his pass rush. You see some of the things that Von Miller used to do. He says, I think he's better than Abdul Carter, went third last year. So again, this is definitely an interesting player here that I think has a ton of upside for the Giants.

Speaker 1:
[10:41] A 20-year-old elite athlete who already has a solid foundation of defensive comprehension, understanding with the levels of explosiveness and physicality that you want in a young player like that, who again, I still think he can develop an ability to get to his counter moves and all. There's still a lot more this kid can learn, but there's nothing to suggest that he can't necessarily learn it, judging by a lot of reports that we've heard. And as we've already said, a lot of Big Ten coaches were like, this guy, we got to worry about this dude. He's a dude. I think the Giants got a really good defensive football player, somebody that Joe Shane and John Harbaugh made very clear, very clear, like abundantly clear, that this scenario was not something that they had. They're like, we are shocked that he was there at five, and he was our highest graded player that was not a quarterback in this draft class. So like all of that makes you feel good. And from a process standpoint, as you said at the top of the show, Dan, that's what you want. You want your team to follow their process. A surprise that they didn't necessarily plan for manifested, they didn't overreact, they stuck to their board, they stuck to their convictions, all the work that they've been doing over the last year, they stuck to all of that and they made their choice. Now the Giants have a damn good football player, I believe, on their front seven.

Speaker 2:
[11:50] Yeah, and a damn good football player on their offensive line. We're talking about Francis Maui Noah. We'll go back and forth here. But the fact of the matter is they had Francis Maui Noah as one of their five best players in the draft, clearly their highest rated tackle despite him going behind Spencer Fano who went first. And in addition to all that, they said they're gonna start him at right guard. So we already have the position fits for both these players. Reese is gonna play that off-ball wheel linebacker position next to Edmonds who will kick over to that stack back position. And that, my man, is so much more athleticism we've had ever at the linebacker position in my lifetime. You have those two, even just Edmonds alone is more than we've had.

Speaker 1:
[12:27] It's crazy. It's exciting, to be honest.

Speaker 2:
[12:30] It is exciting to finally have talent and athleticism at linebacker.

Speaker 1:
[12:33] How many times have we seen, how many times have the Giants got beat to the outside? And there are a lot of reasons for that. It's not always on the linebacker, but a lot of the times the pursuing linebacker gets lost in the traffic and cannot sift through that type of trash to get to where he needs to get outside the numbers to make the tackle, right? And usually Deontay Banks is in him, but like that's neither here nor there. When it comes to pursuit, sideline to sideline range, the Giants from 2025, that's some meant block feet type shit compared to what we're going to see in 2026 with Tremaine Edmonds and Arbel Reiss out there playing linebacker.

Speaker 2:
[13:06] Right, right. We're going to have so much more athleticism, so much more run and chase, the ability to go sideline to sideline the range. We've been killed, just killed in the run game with outside runs. Now there's still work to be done. We have to make sure we get the D line set, we're going to sign Reader, and I hope we're going to sign either Shelby Harris or Campbell in addition to Reader. And I don't mind taking the D tackle at 37, we'll talk about the end. I'm down to do all four of those things to be quite honest. I don't care. Give me a rotation at the tackle. I don't care. You got to keep adding and adding and adding. I have no interest in stopping. What's to stop me? The cap? The bullshit salary cap? That means nothing? No, just keep signing players there. Give yourself a chance to win this year. You need a rotation on the defensive line. With that said, I believe that regardless of what they do there, even if they just sign Reader and draft someone or sign Reader and one other guy and don't draft someone at 37 and get someone at 105, Nick. I think with these two backers, we're going to have that range to stop these counters and stop these outside zone runs. I've just killed the Giants for so damn long. That's a big factor in what's made them a bad defense. In my mind, it's that teams have been able to lean on things in a run game over and over and the tape is there for them every week. But they're like, we can do this to attack the Giants because Bob Bill Carrakay is pretty much a step slow at this point. Whoever else they have next time at linebackers, it's just two steps slow.

Speaker 1:
[14:18] Yeah, you're right. Again, what's going to make Orville Reese's job a lot easier? Getting like Hickey and McDonald or DJ Reapers, clearly getting those players on the defensive line to play in front of them to allow him to maximize his gifts, his physical traits that he does. That's still something the Giants have to do. It seems like the Giants will certainly make those decisions after the draft, but 37 as we'll talk about a little bit later, there's some defensive tackle still around that I think the Giants desperately use and could really help this defense round into form. But when we're talking about the 10th pick, we should probably get into the conversation about making the selection of Francis Malionov, who I believe you and I both like. We like the pick, but it did come at a cost and that cost was allowing Caleb Downs to go to Dallas. Not just that in general, but just passing up on the talents of Caleb Downs, a player who was my number two player in this draft class, and I think he has an all pro potential. And Dallas' defense after this draft, with the addition of Malachi Lawrence, who they got a little bit later in their edge room to pair with Donovan Nezeraku and Rashawn Gary, who they also acquired from Green Bay.

Speaker 3:
[15:29] Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health. This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with BetterHelp, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack, but people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit BetterHelp. That's betterhelp.com/89 to get started.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] We've all been there. You're away for the weekend, Big Game is on, and you realize you're restricted from watching. Or maybe you're trying to check the latest lines on your betting app, but your local network is blocking the site. These are the ultimate unforced errors. You can prevent this from happening to you with IPVanish. IPVanish is the powerhouse VPN designed to keep you in the game no matter where you are. IPVanish helps you stay connected to your favorite team and streaming services while you travel. But it's not just about watching the game. For the betters out there, IPVanish provides an extra layer of security and privacy that helps you access your account safely on public Wi-Fi. Plus, IPVanish is lightning fast, so you won't have to worry about lag during those crucial live betting moments. Right now, get a massive discount at ipvanish.com. That's ipvanish.com to get started today. Secure your play and go to ipvanish.com. Endurance athletes don't really talk about this, but heavy training can quietly wreck sexual performance. Long cardio sessions, high cortisol, bad sleep, under recovery, all of that hits the same systems that control hormones and blood flow. And when circulation drops, performance drops everywhere, including down there, there, bup. Most guys reach for stimulants or prescriptions, but that's a blunt downstream fix. That's where Joy Mode comes in. Nitric oxide is the master switch for blood flow, endurance and long-term vascular health. Joy Mode supports nitric oxide production with real doses of citrulline and arginine nitrate, not token amounts, so your body improves circulation naturally. And it works! 83% of men noticed a boost in sexual performance and 73% felt positive effects even without prior ED issues. You tear one open, mix it with water like an electrolyte packet and you're good. Take it 45 minutes to a few hours before you do the deed or use it daily to raise your baseline just like training adaptations. If you want to support sexual performance the same way you support training and recovery, go to tryjoymode.com/banter or use code banter for 20% off at checkout. Joymode, the pre-workout for blood flow.

Speaker 4:
[18:25] When you hear talk about the giants adding speed and toughness at linebacker, it's a reminder of what makes playoff hockey so intense. Every shift in the Stanley Cup playoffs is physical, fast and unpredictable just like a linebacker chasing down a running back. NHL on TNT has the best coverage. With Paul Bissonnette bringing laughs and Wayne Gretzky breaking down the action. The studio crew makes every game feel bigger. If you want to see where every moment matters, this is the place. Watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on TNT, TBS, True TV, and HBO Max.

Speaker 1:
[19:02] I think their defense is rounding in the form and Caleb Downs can really bring that secondary together. Would you have rather had Dan, Caleb Downs at 10 than Francis? It's not to say that we don't like the Francis. We understand, at least I understand, and I'm sure you do, the Francis, Maui, and Noah selection. But I think I would prefer Caleb Downs. What are your thoughts there?

Speaker 2:
[19:24] I know you'd prefer Caleb Downs, that's for sure. He was much higher. I feel just you were much higher in him than I was, just because, and that's not that I wasn't high.

Speaker 1:
[19:31] I was Maui and Noah too, to be fair.

Speaker 2:
[19:34] Maui and Noah was your first offense tackle. For me, I was first just okay with it. I was fine with it from the beginning, but now I actually prefer it, to be honest. I prefer Maui and Noah to Downs. I just never felt like Downs was a big need for us. I know we were getting the best player, but I never felt like he was a big need. I feel like, yeah, we have Nubin, we invested in him. Can a coach like Denard Wilson fix this player? There was talent there. We saw the tape, dude. We're not, this guy is just not a total bust yet, right? We put all this money for Holland. We added a Darius Washington, who I actually think had good tape. I think he could be a really decent player for the Giants.

Speaker 1:
[20:10] And right there, that and even like Jason Pinnock, you have Nubin and obviously, Jevon Hawn, like you said. So the safety room is pretty crowded. I still think you're going to need to feel the secondary, you're going to need a glue piece in your secondary. I don't think the Giants have anything close to that. And 37 could be spent on a secondary piece, but like Downs, I think could have fixed a lot of the issues on the back end for that the Giants currently have and that they may experience through the years. Because he has that type of leadership and that type of, I think, ability. And now he's a Dallas Cowboy, which does suck. Again, understand it. I'm not saying he's a dick or anything like that. I love Francis Mali. I completely get this for a variety of reasons, which we went over the last couple of weeks, let alone just on this podcast alone. But there's a cost to it. And that cost is a damn good football player, who I think the Giants desperately needed.

Speaker 2:
[21:01] Yeah, I think Bruce Richards said pine on the Malik neighbor stuff. I don't know what the neighbor stuff is. Apparently, he's being emotional. We'll look into that, maybe discuss it tomorrow.

Speaker 1:
[21:09] Dan and I haven't had a chance. We just got put onto it. We've been running around.

Speaker 2:
[21:13] I have to listen to what he said. Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of clips that I can find after this.

Speaker 1:
[21:19] It does seem like the chat is universally saying Malik is being like, Petulant are being a baby.

Speaker 2:
[21:26] It's a wide receiver, man. This is what life is like with wide receivers. This is why I don't want to take a wide receiver at five or 10. I don't even really like receivers. I'm happy we have Malik. He can change the games. I'm just never, I'm not a receiver guy, dude. They're just so annoying, man. They're always like this. How many, can we just get a non-Diva receiver at some point? Like, I just am sick of the position. We need them. You need them in the NFL. You need them to win and Jackson Dart needs them to play. But I'm glad we didn't do another receiver here at five, like Tyson or whatever it would have been just gone back to the well with this up. We got to make him happy. He's got to be happy at all times. He's got to get paid early and he's got to get paid 30 million at all times. Like, it's just enough of this crap. We're not going to hear this from Maui at any point. I'll tell you that. He came in and he said, you could play me wherever the heck you want me. I just want to contribute. That's what he said. They're like, are you going to be mad about playing Garth? He's going to start a card. No, I don't care. Just I want to be an asset, he said. That's what he said. I want to be an asset.

Speaker 1:
[22:16] That's the exact mentality that you want. And he also said he would die for Jackson Dart, which I was like, yeah, Jackson Dart probably has never talked to this kid in his first, I would die for you, Jackson Dart. It's like, damn, man, this guy's ready to rock. And just think about our offensive line right now. Heading into, with Francis Maui, you know, starting a right guard. That makes me feel a lot better about the 2020, the 2026 unit, because we were looking at like Daniel File, like Evan, we were like seriously considering Evan Neal, like, oh, Evan Neal, he might be like the reclamation project. Like, that was the serious thought that we had, like freaking, like 24 hours ago, right? Like, oh, no, like we have that solidified and these other guys can be developmental depth pieces, which is what every single one of them should be, right? Like Filele, Azudu and Neal and Erin Stinney. And that's a pretty damn solid starting offensive line right there. And I would argue the interior offensive line still needs a little bit of strength upgrade, but like that's passable. And that's something that Jackson Dark can I think have success with.

Speaker 2:
[23:11] Yeah, and just to like round out, I want to get to that in a second. I want to get back to your point about Downs or Smiley Noah. But just to round it out, like Travis Murray says, I called that neighbors to be a diva. Y'all just had to have him. But then I kind of agree with what LBJ said. Like Justin Jefferson and Julio are maybe the only non-diva superstar receivers in the last decade. And I just think this is what you get. Like I'm not mad at Malik. I'm not being soft on him or whatever. He wants to win. I agree with that. This is what a receiver is about, man. They become divas. They're superstar, you're a diva. It just seems to be some weird thing that happens with a receiver. And it's constant. It's the board. They're all annoying, pretty much, with the exception of a few, at least in my mind. And it is what it is. He's going to have these emotional stuff. He's going to put all the play calling.

Speaker 1:
[23:53] I don't even know how I'm being soft on him. We both just said we don't know what he said because we haven't listened to him.

Speaker 2:
[23:58] Yeah, I don't know what he said.

Speaker 1:
[24:00] I don't even get what he means by that.

Speaker 2:
[24:02] Point being, yeah, I don't know either. It's disappointing, but it is what it is. I expect this from receivers and you just have to go with it. I'm happy we didn't go receiver at 5 or 10, though. I'm much more happy to get alignment. That's my point with this 5 versus 10 thing. I'm sorry with this Downs versus Maui Noah thing. If Downs is that much better of a football player than Maui Noah, it's going to be a bad pick. But unless that happens, it's going to be a good pick because you're going to win more football games with a right guard or a right tackle than a safety. It's just a matter. Unless your safety is Ed Reed or a different version of Ed Reed. And even that, Ed Reed was a different... The days of Ed Reed meaning so much to a defense are kind of gone. We don't play single high, deep cover. It's not even a useful thing.

Speaker 1:
[24:46] I can't say that. I understand what you mean when it comes to single high. Having that range is definitely still an asset. But just having...

Speaker 2:
[24:55] It's wasted at times. It was wasted with McKinney so often.

Speaker 1:
[24:57] I would say having a pillar of just competency in your middle of your secondary can be very valuable. And the Giants don't have it.

Speaker 2:
[25:07] I'm hoping we get that with Nubiner-Holland, dude. We certainly paid for it.

Speaker 1:
[25:10] We paid for it, yes.

Speaker 2:
[25:11] We paid to get that. And we have a new scheme and we're going to have talent on the front seven. I'm hoping those guys can play better. Everyone's out on them in the chat. I can't believe you guys are talking about those two. Why? Don't give up on them just yet. They played in a horrific scheme with Shane Bowen, was totally not taking advantage of their skill set. And in front of them, it's only getting better. The talent in front of them is only getting better with Reece added to the mix. Abdul Carter taking a step this year. Thibodaux staying on the roster. I just believe so strongly, Nick, that the trench play makes such a big ultimate impact in winning and losing football games. And if I can keep making investments in the trenches, Nick, I feel like I'm going to build a better football team over time.

Speaker 1:
[25:48] It's something we've said for a while, right? And it's something like, giant fans, we don't need to go over this. We haven't had an offensive line that's competent in so long until the last two years. And now, Brasillo is gone. And that's something that could really affect the overall effectiveness of the unit in general, right? But bringing in Malino, Daniel Fallale was not good for the Ravens last year. And he was easily the number one guy I was looking at this depth chart being like, he's probably going to be the starter at right guard now. That issue was gone. So that's something at least that the Caleb Downs choice is going to do. And again, I think Malino could be a long-term good to very good starting guard in the National Football League.

Speaker 2:
[26:27] I think he can be an elite guard at the National. He has the potential to be a very good tackle and elite guard.

Speaker 1:
[26:32] He has the potential to be a top five guard in the National Football League.

Speaker 2:
[26:36] There's a lot of people who really like him.

Speaker 1:
[26:39] I'm one of them.

Speaker 2:
[26:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:43] That's why I find this draft so fascinating, right? Because I'm happy we got Reese. I love Sonny Stiles. I had Reese higher, so I'm happy about that. But I know Stiles going to Washington, that's something that's going to be a little painful for us, especially when he's making those impact plays. It's the same thing with Downs and Maui Noa, but you only had two picks, and I feel blessed that the Giants had two picks, right? And I think they did a good job with these two picks, and they're rectifying issues that have plagued them for a very long time, but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.

Speaker 2:
[27:08] Yeah. And look, it's not like we're talking about a player who's just a total reach pick with Maui and Noa. Like, oh, we just need, they just picked him because they wanted to build the trenches and they wanted O-line. And they went and said, oh, I don't care, Downs the best player, but I want O-line no matter what. That's not what happened here. Like, sure, the pick has Harbaugh's fingerprints all over it, right, Nick? Like, it's similar to his brother, Jim. Like, he had the chance to take Joe Alt or neighbors and he didn't even blink twice. And he took Joe Alt in a snap over a player like neighbors. Cause he's like, I believe tackle is more important than receiver. And I feel like Harbaugh's in a similar boat here with this decision. I believe tackle is, or guard to start for us, is more important than DB for right now, or safety for right now. And if you feel strongly enough about the player and it's clear they did, they had him as a top five player overall, well, then it's a no brainer at that point to me, right? We may have downs rated higher than Maui and O, you and I, and I know downs are your number one player in this class, so you definitely do, but they clearly didn't. They might have had downs as their fourth best player or their third best player. And then if he's your fifth best player, you obviously should be taking the guard tackle over the safety. In my mind, it's not even really close at that point because I just, yes, the safety is great to have, but there are going to be some plays where he's not as involved, but the guard and center is involved on every single play. And I stand by that. And by the way, he has a lot of people who really like his tape. Listen to Greg Cassell on Maui Note. What are you laughing at?

Speaker 1:
[28:27] Nothing. No, I wanted to, I did want to say, though. Well, I will get to the Cassell thing here in a second. But I wonder, and I know the Giants got two of their top five players. They made that clear in the post draft or post first round press conference. If the Giants didn't get Reese, if Reese didn't fall, would they have been more apt to go defense at 10? And like, what would have happened if Reese wasn't there?

Speaker 2:
[28:50] I think it was going to be styles. We'll never know.

Speaker 1:
[28:52] Let's like, if styles wasn't there, too, if it went the two edge rushers, Fernando Mendoza, and then love was available for the Giants at five, and styles went off the board to Tennessee, like a lot of people thought, because of the linebacker and Robert Sala. What would have happened? I wonder, or Bailey.

Speaker 2:
[29:10] Yeah, I wonder if they would have taken love. I don't I never bought into the love hype.

Speaker 1:
[29:14] Like, I wonder if Maui and Noah, like because they talked in the post in the press conference about, you know, they knew that where they figured that two offensive linemen were coming off the board before 10. And Fano went off the board with to the Browns who traded down from six. And then they ended up taking Maui and Noah at 10. If they were not going to go Maui and Noah at five, if the board shook out a certain way and maybe like, you know what I'm saying? And then they felt comfortable after getting a defensive player and all of a sudden reset five. And then once 10 rolled around, they were like, okay, we'll go with the offensive linemen we like best. And that is Maui and Noah. I wonder, I'm just curious if it shook out a different way, because they talked a lot about scenarios during the press conference, right?

Speaker 2:
[29:53] Well, they said that they did simulations throughout the entire period of last month and they never dreamed this was even possible. So I think ultimately what happened was it played out in a way they didn't expect Nick. It played out with Arvo Reese, their number one player on the board available at five. So they couldn't even consider any other position at that point, Nick. And then it played out where at 10, they had Maui Noah on the board who was a top five player for them. So again, they couldn't even really consider it. But I don't believe they would have taken love like other people in the chat are saying, because I think if they would have taken love, then they would have taken a skill position over Maui Noah at five. I think they would have gone Tyson or if they believed in it. But I honestly believe that no matter what someone says to me from this point on, and we'll never be able to prove it either way, I could be wrong, you could be right, or I could be right, you could be wrong. Harbaugh's going O-line over skill position. I totally believe that. I think this is his stamp. I don't think the Harbaugh's believe in the bull crap of trapping some kind of running back at five or some receiver up top. Like I think they want to improve the trenches. And I think he proved it with this pick. And by the way, he's a top five player for the Giants. He's not just a top five player for the Giants. He's a top five player for a lot of people in this class. A lot of people believe Maui and Noah is well worth the pick and not just, oh, you're getting someone good for your trenches to help your quarterback and do all the things you want to do from an offensive line standpoint. Greg Cassell said, to me, he's a real, this is a quote from Greg Cassell, a direct quote. I snipped it up. To me, he's a really good player. And by the way, Greg Cassell, godfather of NFL film evaluation, one of the best film evaluators out there. I quote him a lot on the show. Cassell said, to me, Maui Ngo is a really good player. The only concern you have with him is range. Now, he's a power player, he said. That's his game. He's really, really strong. He's a good athlete, not the best athlete. A really good run blocker with great finishing traits, competitive, heavy hands and pass protection. He can anchor, absorb and control pass pressures. You talked about that a bunch, Nick, and you could see it with those massive, almost 11 inch hands, like massive mitts that he uses really well to anchor pass protection. He uses them in a run game. Cassell said, he doesn't have the range you ideally like, but and this is according to Cassell. Cassell says he's going to play tackle, right tackle, and he'll be drafted to play right tackle. He said some old line coach in the league will tell you he'll be better at guard because of the range issue, but he'll be drafted as a right tackle. And then he said so much depends on the scheme. And then he said, you know, he's talking about some other things with McClinchy, but he says, Mal, you know, I guarantee you will go into the league as a right tackle. He's a very, very good prospect going to go sell. But the way I hear that to me, Nick, is, all right, you have issues with his range, you have issues with him not being the best athlete. All those are mitigated by moving him side to guard. And at that point, he becomes what? At that point, almost a prospect without a flaw. If you take away the issue of, he's not the best athlete, he doesn't have the best range at tackle. All right, move him inside, then what?

Speaker 1:
[32:32] Yeah, no, exactly. That's one of the reasons why I'm stoked about it. And if he does prove, like say, Germain O'Lumonore's issues at right tackle, which weren't as bad as I think people made it, but you know, the fall starts and he got beat a little bit down the stretch of the season. If those issues continue to manifest, he could play inside too. And you have like not just a Marcus Bow as your swing tackle. If you want to use Maui Inoa there, it just gives you versatility to find your best starting five, while also giving you depth, something you desperately need. You needed an infusion of young depth on this offensive line because the only person we really had was, other than the starting tackles, was Bow. And you don't know where he's going to, is he going to be the long-term swim tackle? Is he going to get kicked inside? We're honestly still unsure of that, but Maui, you know this guy can be your starting right guard for a very long time or your right tackle. So it's a great player to find if everything's good with the back, and it seems like they're not worried about that, and they have some inside information on that, it does appear. So overall, does not shock me as you said, Harbaugh is going to go with the dude in the trenches. This is a John Harbaugh coached football team. It's much more about building through the trenches, and he made a point about bringing that up all throughout the pre-draft process about it's a working product. So it's not shocking, and I wouldn't be surprised, Dan, if they're not done.

Speaker 2:
[33:48] We'll get to that.

Speaker 1:
[33:49] It's not just now, you know.

Speaker 2:
[33:50] And I love that you and I are open to the double dip, and I've gotten so many comments. I've gotten so many comments and replies on Twitter. You're crazy. Your draft takes are getting insane, Dan. You're insane. So many people are so out on the double dip, they can't even conceive it in their brains. They can't even figure it out because a lot of people just follow the draft and believe the draft, and they're really stuck in their mindset of like, the draft, you just go need, need, need. You go, you're Phil DT, now you need receiver. Phil receiver, now you go O-line. It's like this, like you fill down a lane. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's other ways to play the draft. You don't just need to go need by need by need. Actually, that's probably the dumbest way to play the draft. If you really think about it, that's like probably what all the dumb worst teams that always end up failing do. So you should maybe consider, reconsider your mindset on what this should be in my mind and be open to some other ideas. Now, if the best player available is your need, like a DT, which it might be, and we'll talk about it later, go ahead, God bless, all power to you. You can do your little need by need thing and go down your board. If I fill this need, I fill this need like a checkbox, but otherwise, you don't do something like that. But Nick, I want to get into something else. We've talked a little bit about, I think it's important to provide some context for the listeners here. We've talked about what coaches and former defensive coordinators said about Arbel Reese. We've talked about what Greg Giselle, godfather of NFL tape evaluation, has said about Maui Noah. Now I wanted to give you some quotes from McGinn. You know McGinn, the guy from the Green Bay, he does that article every year where he asks the scouts to talk about players. And I was pretty surprised and enthused to hear this, Nick. But according to the scouts that McGinn talked to, Maui Noah was the unanimous number one OT and number one O-lineman for these scouts. Here's what these scouts said. It got me pretty amped up. Scout one, I like Will Campbell a lot. But I have to say this guy, Maui Noah, is better than Will Campbell. He's not that Hall of Famer Willie Rove, but he'll be an all pro type. He looks like a guard, but he moves like a tackle. He's got feel, balance, and he can bend. He positions guys really well. He's an instant starter. That's one scout. Another scout said he has less questions about him than the others about the offensive tackles, and he ranked him number one. He said he's a big man. He can stop people. He's a little more patient than Monroe Freeling. The third scout, who also had him ranked number one, said he's either a right tackle or a guard. Big power player. I see him more as a guard. He definitely can be a starting tackle, but he's a pro bowl guard. He doesn't have quite the agility outside of the NFL level, but I take him over Vega Ioane as a guard. The fourth scout said a freaky, rare size tackle that isn't agile. It isn't an agile athlete like a Spencer Fano or Caleb Lomu, but in the run game, that's where you see his power. He's just more powerful in line than the other top guys. He can move people off the ball. This is Maui Noah. He's deficiency show, maybe in pass bro, dealing with some of the athletic twitchy guys, but he's definitely a starter. When you're comparing him to tackles in his class, sure, he doesn't have the lateral agility, but he can get out and run on poles and get to the second level. He's probably a little heavier than anyone would like him to be. Okay. The fifth scouts said, usually the online coaches will tell you to make sure he's a dancing baron, can pass protect and I'll teach them to run block. He's a deceptive athlete who will love to get their hands on and work on hand placement and consistency. He'll be a solid start at the beginning, but by the end of the first year, you'll be enamored with him as your starter at left or right tackle. These are scouts on Maui Noah, who again was their number one tackle in the class.

Speaker 1:
[37:05] Yeah. No, I completely understand. I didn't study everybody in this draft class. He was my number one offensive lineman that I had. That's why I do like to pick. I had a six, seven, eight grade on him, which is year one quality starter, high-end, talented above average, good capabilities. Potential to be top 10 in his position. That's a tackle. I think at guard, it's top five. I think it's even more because of that. Dude, how many times, Dan, have we bitched and complained about the interior offensive line of the Giants being, yeah, they're good in pass protection. Yeah, they take good angles, they're technically sound for the most part, but they just don't move dudes in the run game, right?

Speaker 2:
[37:39] Right. That's not Francis Mountain.

Speaker 1:
[37:42] Now I know.

Speaker 2:
[37:42] We finally got that. We finally got that. We've been waiting for that.

Speaker 1:
[37:46] Ass kicker, bro.

Speaker 2:
[37:47] Point of the tack has been waiting for that, dude.

Speaker 1:
[37:50] 20 years old.

Speaker 2:
[37:51] It's a great point, Paiu. We've been waiting for that. We might get a chance to get another at 37. I think Giants fans are open to it, the double dip, which I will find out if fans are open to it or not, but we might get another chance to get that at 37. But you're right. We've been waiting for that ass kicker in the run game. We don't really have it with Thomas. I love Thomas. God bless him. He's the best pass-protecting left tackle I've ever watched in my life for the Giants. Honestly, he's the best pass-protecting tackle I've ever watched in my life by far. But he's not that ass kicker in the run game. Neither is Runyon, neither is JMS, neither is Luminor. To be honest, we really don't have it anywhere on the line. Now we got it.

Speaker 1:
[38:27] Yeah, no, a hundred percent. We just got to shout out OD.

Speaker 2:
[38:30] Nass. OD. Nass, thank you so much.

Speaker 1:
[38:32] Go to Giants Podcast.

Speaker 2:
[38:33] It's an amazing $100 donation on Super Chat. You can just, just made our night. So he said, go to Giants Podcast, join late. So sorry if it's already covered. Mitch, I hear your thoughts on Reese. And we'll get to all the other Supers, by the way. No doubt, but I mean, if an $100 Super comes in, there's, we're hitting it right away. Just to be honest, it's just to hear your thoughts on Reese's IQ. No doubt he's a freak athlete, but thoughts on processing and seeing the plays that fold, especially if he is in a true linebacker role, like he's going to start out as, he will need it. What are your thoughts on that, Nick?

Speaker 1:
[39:03] I think, look, from what I've seen from Arvel Reese, which I want to study much more intently on the film that I'm about to go over, he seemed to be the kind of player who may make a mistake, but he doesn't really make it twice. The young, I don't want to say unrefined, but a young player who handled a lot of responsibility, a lot of different roles, who I felt like was learning as he was playing, not necessarily in a bad way. I think that can be misconstrued as something negative, but it's much more, I think, he's just a young 20-year-old player with not a lot of playing experience who is figuring it out and doing a damn good job while figuring it out. So I don't know exactly how it's going to translate to a full-time linebacking role in the NFL. Again, that would be projecting forward. I'll really study that linebacker film a little bit with a different eye now that I know that's the Giants' playing form and he'll be on the New York Giants. But I'm not worried about it right now. And I don't think the Giants are. And from everything I've heard, he's a, I think he has his head on straight and all that kind of stuff. So I just think you got a really damn good football player here who could be a defensive difference maker.

Speaker 2:
[40:08] Yeah, and I know the Giants, Nick, and to answer the question here, feel like they have something in that regard in the sense of like, if we can get him with our coaches and have him reading the run keys the way we want him to read them and play in that system the way we believe he can, we see the upside as a run defender and as a true linebacker. Harbaugh said something after the draft to the extent of like, he was shocked, literally shocked watching him at the pro day, get in and out of his stance from point A to point B. I know they feel like that could be something that they can use in the run game, either in pursuit as the will linebacker, somebody who's in that chase and pursuit type of role, or even they said at times of the stack backer, which I'm not surprised that they feel like there is possibility for him. They're just going to get this ball clay in their defense, get him set up, get him feeling comfortable, and then they're going to let it go from there. I'm pretty excited about where that's going to go.

Speaker 1:
[41:00] Same, man. Same. Look, you got Arville Reese now with Abdul Carr. These are two in first round.

Speaker 2:
[41:06] The cabinet is closed, Keith. The cabinet is closed.

Speaker 1:
[41:09] Cabinet is closed. I don't know. Dan does not provide the audience the angle of the cabinet. The cabinet could be wide open for easy access to grab whatever Dan wants. And I don't know what Dan had then. What spices are in there? You got some adobo?

Speaker 2:
[41:22] The thing with that cabinet why it's always open is I use that cabinet a lot because I have good Redmond True Utah sea salt there, like real salt, like good salt, which is pretty much one of the best health cheat codes out there. I put it in everything and it keeps me hydrated. So I'm just constantly putting salt and stuff. Like I just had a cup of tea, put a little salt in it. I put salt in my coffee. It just makes everything better. But it's why the cabinet's always open. And I got a little true raw honey, raw local honey that he's throwing. Raw local honey, man, Nick, if you want to add one bad thing to your diet that's not actually bad for you, but is because you don't like sugar, add this local, raw, unfiltered honey. Really good for you health-wise.

Speaker 1:
[42:03] Then I like that Dan is playing mind games with that.

Speaker 2:
[42:09] All right. Now the cabinet is where Dan keeps his hotcakes. No, unfortunately, those hotcakes are littered without a filter on the show. Hotcakes, hotcakes.

Speaker 1:
[42:19] Hotcakes, hotcakes.

Speaker 2:
[42:20] That's my first break into any content role. Me and Matt Harmon did a show called Hotcakes and Hotcakes. This was in 2013. Matt Harmon has risen to fame. We're here and we're famous in our own way.

Speaker 1:
[42:36] Bro, we're doing our thing, man.

Speaker 2:
[42:37] We're doing our thing. Yeah. We don't have reception perception. We got Big Blue Banter, baby.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] We got Big Blue Banter, baby. We're chilling. We're a great audience.

Speaker 2:
[42:45] We're the best audience. Literally the best audience in the world in my opinion.

Speaker 1:
[42:48] You guys are great.

Speaker 2:
[42:50] I can't believe it. I started my own show over there on Beyond the Box, where I've said this before. I'll say it again. It is so hard to get an audience together and we're doing what we consider a good job and our bosses are telling, this is great. You guys are building this fast. I'm like, I don't know, man. My head, I'm like, I don't know. The Big Blue Banter audience is light years ahead at this time, as far as just constantly there for us in the comments, in these lives, after the show, liking, please hit the like button right now if you can. If you haven't already, that really helps us grow and leave the comments. So anyway, back to the Giants though, Nick. Where were we? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:20] I was saying, you have Reese now to be paired with Abdul Carter. It's two first round picks that you got in consecutive years.

Speaker 2:
[43:26] Right.

Speaker 1:
[43:27] Two just incredibly explosive, like top, like could be like top five athletes at their position type of potential, both on the same defensive front. And this even the front is not done, not even close to being done. But like, there's something to be said about that, especially since we have been subjected to these older front seven players who are lumbering and a little bit slower. So I'm happy to see how it all comes together under the vision of Denard Wilson, how this vision that Denard Wilson had is going to change now that Dexter Lawrence is in here and you add our Orville Reese to the scenario. And it does not seem like Kayvon's getting traded. Like Harbaugh was pretty adamant about that, at least in the press conference. He's like, we don't trade good football players. I was like, you sure about that? And then like two questions later, they're talking about Dexter Lawrence getting traded.

Speaker 2:
[44:13] I'm like, you sure about that there, John?

Speaker 1:
[44:15] You sure about that there, Joe Biden? Guy sounds just like Joe Biden, bro. It's crazy, man.

Speaker 2:
[44:19] I can't get much of an option though, Dex, unfortunately, for the Giants.

Speaker 1:
[44:22] They went over that.

Speaker 2:
[44:23] We went that Maui No, and I'm actually very excited about this Maui No error. Like you said, we finally have an ass kicker in the run game. We find somebody who's really gonna help us in that regard. And by the way, just to clarify, the quote from Harbaugh was, it was shocking how fast Reese went from point A to point B out of his stance at Ohio State's Pro Day. I think I said that maybe a little bit wrong, but I love the fact, Nick, that both these guys are just 20 years old, two of the youngest prospects in the draft. The reason I love that is I'm thinking about, and you could think about this yourself as well, Nick, the tape we watched in Maui No, the tape we watched a Reese. So keep in context, the tape you watch to them, the fact that they're 20 years old, isn't it kind of crazy how much stronger they looked in their competition? These are power five players they're playing against. Both these two players played college football playoffs, the semis, the finals for Maui Noa, and both of them were two of the strongest players against the competition they played on a consistent week to week basis at 20 years old playing a lot of 22, 23, 24 year olds. And now you think about it, well, they're 20 years old, they're already some of the strongest players in their sport at the college level. They're only going to get stronger by growing and becoming 22, 23 year olds because your body's still growing at 20. And they get in an NFL strength and conditioning program. These are going to be two of the most violent, physical and viciously strong players at their positions in this draft class. I honestly do believe that with both of these two players.

Speaker 1:
[45:49] Yeah. I mean, because again, with Reese, four star recruit, Reese, he's more than likely to play linebacker. That's a dude with standing up like 305 pound, again, college players, but 305 pound offensive tackles at the point of attack and shit. Power five schools, right? Whereas he's going to be doing that against running backs and pass protection and climbing offensive guards, and he's quick enough to evade. He was sifting through traffic a lot of the times when he was playing at the second level. So I'm excited to see that. When it comes to Maui, Maui is a five-star recruit. This guy was heavily recruited around the nation, came in and was just an ass-kicking right tackle for a team that went to the national championship. I think again, as we already said, that's all pro potential on the inside and it's exciting. It's smart, I believe it's exciting. I get that it's not the most exciting pick, but I think it's the type of decision that you make to start to build and lay a foundation that can allow you to be a competitive football team year in and year out. That's something that the Giants, it's evaded the Giants for far too long at this point.

Speaker 2:
[46:51] I'm ready for more, man. I'm ready for more offensive line. Honestly, I really am. I don't need Runyon playing. I don't need it. I don't need JMS playing. I don't need it. I want guys like Francis Malinoa on my line, kicking ass, moving bodies in the run game, and creating a little bit more space for Jackson Dart, Cam Scadaboo, Tyrone Tracy, and whoever else comes in this or the next draft, that running back position, is I do believe and I'm hopeful the Giants will continue to do what they've done. Use day three to fill out their running back room, because that's the best way to play that position. One of the only positions that has a solver, in my mind, like a solver to it. But I know people disagree with that, but that's not here and there, Nick. Anything else specifically on these guys before we move, as we, I don't know how much, if you have other stuff we haven't touched on before we move to day two.

Speaker 1:
[47:36] I mean, once we get to, I think when we moved to day two, that's where I really want to get into it, because it's going to start adding on to the conversation that we just had. Let's do that.

Speaker 2:
[47:46] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[47:47] Since the Giants now got a guy, right guard, possibly in Maui and Noah. Daniel, you've been frozen this entire time and it's hilarious. But you got your guy in Maui and Noah.

Speaker 2:
[47:56] Chase Basantis, we have one more thing. I'm sorry. I have one more thing.

Speaker 1:
[47:59] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[48:00] I just saw my notes that I wanted to bring up. I do appreciate the fact that Maui and Noah has made 42 starts and never missed a game at the college level. It's just one other thing I want to throw out there. We have issues with injuries on this team. We have toughness at times, issues or question marks. I don't think we're going to get any of that with this kid. I think this kid is going to suit up week after week, unless he gets unlucky. Obviously, I don't want to jinx it, knock on a lot of wood. But I think he's going to suit up week after week for this team and be a grinder for the Giants. I like that as well.

Speaker 1:
[48:29] Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 2:
[48:30] All right. So, yeah, let's get into it now.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] All right. So with the offensive line, Dan, you bring in Maui. You know, he's going to be your right guard. He's Basantis is still around right now. The double dip, if he's available at 37, we'll get to McDonald in the defensive tile. Trust me, that's where my priority lies when it comes to 37. But since Basantis was a stud left guard at Texas A&M and you have your right guard position figured out, would the Giants be bold to make that decision with Runyon under contract for another year?

Speaker 2:
[48:59] I think they do it only if they felt Basantis was by far and away the best player on their board over players like. And I think I wrote on Twitter, man, as I worked through this class, I was late to Basantis. He was the one I got to last because I did Rutledge before him. I know people in the chat earlier were like, Dan, what do you think about the Texans going Rutledge over Kalen Rutledge over Basantis? Remember, Rutledge was another my guy of mine as well, both him and Basantis. I think that's scheme decision. I knew it was possible Rutledge could go before Basantis. If you're running a power gap scheme, if you have a certain idea in mind for what you want out of your guard, I could totally see a team taking a player like Rutledge over Basantis. It's like taking Pregnone over either of them. Pregnone is 24 and still sitting on the board. Which by the way, he's also an opportunity for the Giants tomorrow as well. Not sure if they'd consider that because he may-

Speaker 1:
[49:49] It seems to fit what they want to do.

Speaker 2:
[49:51] It does seem to fit what they want to do. I'm not as high in him. I don't like the 22.

Speaker 1:
[49:55] Long time left guard for three different schools, right? Wyoming, USC.

Speaker 2:
[49:58] It really wasn't great until this last year.

Speaker 1:
[50:01] Which was at Oregon and he was like two years older than a lot of the players he was playing against.

Speaker 2:
[50:05] Which worked for Bulls but doesn't work typically.

Speaker 1:
[50:07] Not the most fluid guy out there, but another one who could just move bodies off the line.

Speaker 2:
[50:12] More along the Rutledge line. But as far as Basantis goes, as I got to him later in this process, dude, I was getting to the point where I'm like, I don't know necessarily if I want Vega over him. I would take Vega over him because he's a sure bet in Bass Pro, but Basantis is the nine eight at relative athletic score guard here and he moves like a nine eight. He moves really well and his range is really good at a guard. And the other thing Basantis is, if they were to consider drafting him, Nick, if they also like me believed he was a top 25 player in his class and was like, I can't pass up on the value at 37. I know we need to de-tackle. I know we need this and that. And we'll get to the other guys. There's also a possibility they can convert him to center. I think he could play center at the NFL level and be a really interesting bet there. Like maybe like a super, super weapon at center for you. Maybe. Moving forward at left guard or center, Runyon is off the cotton. Runyon's gone after this year. I'm surprised he didn't even get cut this year, but I think they wanted some safety there, Nick.

Speaker 1:
[51:09] Which made sense, which made sense. But you couldn't cut him.

Speaker 2:
[51:12] Right. You don't need to cut. With our situation, a guard going to draft, we can't afford to cut anybody. We just have to do what we need. Just take your bet. Don't really have that option.

Speaker 1:
[51:19] You cut your one semi-competent player. You have Josh's, you bring back Josh's.

Speaker 2:
[51:23] You're like, all right, it's going to be Neal, Falele and Azudu at left guard and right guard unless we can draft Maui and Noah. Yeah. So they didn't cut him. But then at center too, it's like JMS is a free agent after this year. I don't even really like JMS anyway. A case can be made Schlotman outplayed him or at least played to the same level as him. So the thing is, if you draft Basantis, it's possibly giving you a solution of two positions, potentially, one of two positions that gives you the chance to solve one of those two positions that are major needs. In addition to all the other things that we've already mentioned about going online, you win in the trenches, you protect Jackson Dart, you block for Jackson Dart and Cam Scadaboo in the run game and the zone re-run game, you help the quarterback by giving him time to get through his progressions, you do all the things that we believe win football games. So I'm way more than open to Basantis. He's in my big three. I have three players that I'm hoping the Giants get at 37. And he is one of those three players that are in my top tier. And then there's a drop off and I have other guys, but he's one of my three. We have what? 33, 34, 35. We have four picks to go. And then we're back on the board. Three players that I really feel are in the lead area for me. And Basantis is one of them. I don't care. I'll double dip.

Speaker 1:
[52:33] There's a player that we haven't spoken about that I want to get to a little bit later. But I think he's on my board. But let's just lay out, if you could have it right now, who would you want at 37? Like for me, it's Kayden McDonald.

Speaker 2:
[52:46] Same. Kayden's one for me.

Speaker 1:
[52:47] Yeah, he is my one. Basantis is definitely in that conversation. And I think it gets interesting.

Speaker 2:
[52:53] Basantis is my two, actually.

Speaker 1:
[52:56] Basantis may be my two, but this is the con... So I can't really use the word that was in the chat before, O'Pine, on Jermon McCoy, if that knee is as bad as they say. But his 2024 tape at Tennessee, it was phenomenal.

Speaker 2:
[53:08] McCoy would be my one if it wasn't for the injury situation. He's just a wild card thing. Like McCoy's a top 15 player in this class without the injury.

Speaker 1:
[53:16] He's a top five player without the injury.

Speaker 2:
[53:18] But he's got the injury and he wasn't drafted in the first 32 picks. So clearly it's like probably not gonna happen at 37. Who knows?

Speaker 1:
[53:25] The reports were not good.

Speaker 2:
[53:26] The reports were not really bad. The reports.

Speaker 1:
[53:29] But again, I don't know shit about that. But there's another there's other players. There's other position and that is why. And the player that I'm thinking of is Denzel Boston.

Speaker 2:
[53:38] Yes, he's in my list, but not my top three.

Speaker 1:
[53:40] But we haven't we haven't spoken a ton about Denzel Boston on the pile, Washington wide receiver. He's another one now. Casey, I like Casey Concepcion better. But Boston's another one who has like these like crazy breaks at the top of his routes that I feel like are just very deceptive and he can really uncover over the middle of the field with a strong handed like a strong handed player with a decent catch radius who I think can make an impact at all three levels of the field who would come in and be like a very good compliment to Malik neighbors. And I wanted to kind of run that by to see what your opinion was.

Speaker 2:
[54:13] I was late to Boston, and this is typically not my favorite type of wide receiver prototype, to be honest with you. I also have seen a lot of these bets lose at the NFL level. But I do think you're right, that he has enough traits that he, I would put him more on that big spectrum of like Romu Dunze at the top of it, I guess. Now there's got to be players who are way better than that. But that, like in the middle top area, Romu Dunze down to all the way to like, JJ, I think a white side at the real bottom of it or like a King Butler. Of course, that's what I'm saying. I think he's closer to the top of that. Not Odunze, but closer to the top of that.

Speaker 1:
[54:51] I'm wondering, I'm trying to figure out a comp who like, Odunze is a good one, I think. But there is somebody.

Speaker 2:
[54:56] I don't like him as much as Odunze at all.

Speaker 1:
[54:58] No, neither do I. But like, I thought we were shooting for like the high, like, like if you were to say this is what he could be.

Speaker 2:
[55:05] Oh, if he hits the ceiling? No, I don't mean that. I mean more of like the middle, like the.

Speaker 1:
[55:09] So what do you think he could be basically? And yeah, yeah, no, I would say it's definitely more than JJ, I think a white side.

Speaker 2:
[55:16] Oh, no, no, that's the bottom of the ring. I don't think he's anywhere near that. That's the way worst outcome of this type of prototype. It's just not my favorite prototype at receiver, generally speaking, because, you know, you're relying on contested catches, you're relying on timing from the quarterback ball placement, a lot of things that are out of the control of the receiver instead of just like quickly separating, like a neighbor's getting the ball in like it could be thrown really anywhere like neighbor's rookie season, dude, the ball location was, I don't want to get back into this to make people mad again, but the ball location was horrific to quite frank and neighbors would just take it. It didn't matter. He was separated by so much. Neighbors was so open. It's like you could throw the ball behind him and he'd still probably have room to run after the catch a lot of the time, or you could throw it like stop him in his route. But like this is not that kind of receiver. With that said, I'm open to it and I do like his film more than I thought I would. And I say it in the sense of like we talked all draft season Nick about like how, well, really like Cardinal Tate's probably the best fit for what the Giants seen at receiver. They're going to go receiver because we got neighbors. We want that outside guy. We had, we saw it with little Jordan Humphrey, a lot of one on ones on the outside. Darts not afraid to throw them. He sees him pre snap. He throws them. Well, Boston will be that guy to play on the outside, a big guy, and he'll get a lot of one on ones. And if Dart has the willingness to throw in those, he will make a lot of those catches.

Speaker 1:
[56:35] I think your average fan, thank you by the way, your average fan. He mentions Nico Collins as that top, that ceiling. Like that's, that's, I think that would be like the top ceiling. I don't like from what I've seen from Boston, I don't see that, but that's why it's the ceiling play. I think, yeah, Nico would be that. But yeah, no, that's something I'm considering at 37. Like I wouldn't be upset if the Giants went in that direction. You can understand it. You want Jack. But ideally, I still want to go back to the trenches, man. I want to either double.

Speaker 2:
[57:03] The other thing for me is Nick.

Speaker 1:
[57:04] He drank the defensive line.

Speaker 2:
[57:06] Yeah. So like we'll get into that in a second. I think my big three for sure are, and I'm not sure the order besides Katie McDonald's my one for sure. I would like if we just tell me right now, I can sign up today, Nick, and we get Katie McDonald tomorrow at 37. I don't need to understand anything else. I'm so happy with that. Number two for me is Basantis. Number three is Kristen Miller. We went over all three of those in a pre-draft. That's my big three. I'd be really thrilled to be in a three. When it gets to after that, Boston is probably my four.

Speaker 1:
[57:33] He's up there.

Speaker 2:
[57:34] But I will say this, despite him probably being my four man, and I think somebody sent in the chat box somewhere between Pittman and London, I wouldn't say that. I don't think he's anywhere near London.

Speaker 1:
[57:44] I don't think he's near London. Pittman I could see a little bit more of.

Speaker 2:
[57:48] Yeah, Pittman, but I don't think Pittman is low end of the scale. I think Pittman is probably closer to his expected or top range of his outcome for me.

Speaker 1:
[57:57] I was thinking Pittman was like an 80th percentile hit.

Speaker 2:
[57:59] Right. Pittman is a good player.

Speaker 1:
[58:01] Pittman is a good player.

Speaker 2:
[58:02] London has zero chance. I don't see it. Not to be a jerk here, Brian, if you see it, good for you. I haven't watched every single game. London ceiling for me is not close. I don't think he has the kind of movement skills London has. I don't think he's as loose as London. I don't think he's as explosive as London. London is a top tier receiver. This guy would have been drafted top five or 10 if he had any kind of London potential. I don't think he has any Tett Macmillan type of potential either, just to be clear. Another receiver. That's on that scale, but no. But what I was going to say, Nick, is, yeah, maybe Boston is my four after that big three, but I'll say this, dude. I don't know for sure that I want Boston over Ted Hurst. I just don't know it, man. I like Hurst and I like his tape and I like his movement skills, and it's a massive risk. It's a massive risk to take a player like that. But upside is definitely higher than Boston to me.

Speaker 1:
[58:54] There's a lot of those upside swings that the Giants might go with a little bit later in the giraffe. But at 37, there's no later.

Speaker 2:
[59:00] We're done until 105 after this.

Speaker 1:
[59:02] I also like the Jeff Caldwells of the World and players like that.

Speaker 2:
[59:05] Those guys, but like the Cincinnati receiver. Yeah, you get my guy, Kobe Young. They're going to get like late bets. But this is it. Like if we don't trade back, it's 37, then we're off the board for 70 picks. It always sucks for us.

Speaker 1:
[59:16] It does. It does. And look, dude, I don't think the Giants are ruled out at cornerback here at 37, too. And Chris Johnson went off the board, but you still have McCoy, like we talked about. Then McCoy's teammate, Colton Hood, who the Giants had him in for top 30, if I'm not mistaken, right? Or was it a combine or something that they had?

Speaker 2:
[59:31] Something.

Speaker 1:
[59:32] Colton Hood.

Speaker 2:
[59:32] So that's another barrel people like. But then he ran like the 4-6 or whatever it was. What did he run? Like a 4-5-6? Something you can say.

Speaker 1:
[59:39] It's never good when that happens. I know.

Speaker 2:
[59:41] But people love his tape. I did not watch his tape. I did not get to many of the corners. I got the few guys that I liked them. One guys I got to, I liked, I want to throw out there, by the way, if we're on this position, because we talked about Hearst, we talked about Boston, this is an interesting one that I want to get your take on. What about, I don't know if I like it, but I'm open to it and I just want to hear your take on it. What about Ponds?

Speaker 1:
[60:03] Oh, so it's small? We're going to have a bunch of-

Speaker 2:
[60:06] Pong was just like an unbelievable football player, but his size is such a problem that he hasn't been drafted yet. But like it was just on the tape, he'd be drafted already on day one.

Speaker 1:
[60:15] I know, man. And look, I love being, I love sticking up with the small guys out there.

Speaker 2:
[60:19] Yeah, I know you do.

Speaker 1:
[60:20] And I loved what I saw from D'Angelo, man.

Speaker 2:
[60:24] He's so good.

Speaker 1:
[60:25] He's a good player, but he's like five. I got to check his mock draftable right now, but I know he's like five, nine.

Speaker 2:
[60:30] It's bad.

Speaker 1:
[60:31] But again, if he was five, ten, would that be it? Dude, it's tough, though. And I just looked.

Speaker 2:
[60:35] What was the guy?

Speaker 1:
[60:37] He's five, eight. The second percentile, 11th percentile weight, seven percentile wingspan, and then a second percentile arm length. And he did jump a 98th percentile for it. 43 and a half inch vertical is insane, dude.

Speaker 2:
[60:53] He's just the most explosive athlete, and it shows up on the tape immediately.

Speaker 1:
[60:57] Bro, you watch Ponza. I went through a couple of Indiana games because I wanted to watch. I was studying other players, and he always jumped out when I'm watching the other offense. I'm like, who the? Is that guy five? So I wouldn't be throwing a fit. Now, can he play full time on the outside? Like, what are you doing with Drew Phillips? Like, that becomes kind of the question if he can't hold up against six foot four wide receivers on the outside. Because Pons never really played inside. He played exclusively, basically, on the outside for all three seasons. Because remember, he was a transfer from JMU to Indiana and was just a stud for Indiana for two years in a row, made the jump, was successful from the smaller level of competition to Indiana, won a national championship, was a big reason why that defense was so damn good. So I wouldn't be upset. I know he's a damn good football player, but you know when you take... I liked Wondell Robinson, right?

Speaker 2:
[61:51] Right.

Speaker 1:
[61:51] Damn good football player, but we saw his limitations come up a lot, kind of, right? He's still an effective football player. So it would be something, I think, similar to that. But I don't think it would be like a Drew Phillips, because Drew Phillips, there's a lot I love about Drew Phillips. I think Drew Phillips could be an excellent football player. But Pond is more technically savvy.

Speaker 2:
[62:08] Oh, no. Pond is way better prospect.

Speaker 1:
[62:11] Yeah, exactly my point. So I don't...

Speaker 2:
[62:13] Pond could be really good in coverage. Drew Phillips was never that good in coverage, or at least hasn't been in the NFL level.

Speaker 1:
[62:18] Yeah, he hasn't been in the NFL.

Speaker 2:
[62:19] Yes. But Pond could be really good at coverage. And like you said, it's all on the outside. And it's like, yeah, if you do get like George Pickens, obviously you can't line him up against George Pickens. But a lot of these teams have like Waddle or something on the outside, right? Or like something like that. I don't know. He is kind of small even for that.

Speaker 1:
[62:36] There's no liability in run support either. And that's like the other thing about this too, right? Like if Pons comes in, I think the Giants would start him outside with Paul Sanadivo. And they would be like, but the thing is the issue with that, and this is just a reality of the situation wherever Pons goes, and I think he can overcome it. We've seen shorter corners overcome this plenty in their careers. But the issue is every offensive coordinator that plays you is going to be like, all right, we're going to mismatch AJ Brown again. We're going to mismatch.

Speaker 2:
[63:03] They have that on their offense.

Speaker 1:
[63:06] A lot of teams have big wide receivers, but Pons might be able to.

Speaker 2:
[63:09] He could beat the bad.

Speaker 1:
[63:10] Overcome that. But you're taking that in the top 40. My point is, I'm not trying to detract from it. I like the idea, but my point, and it makes sense because the Giants need cornerbacks and he's good cornerbacks. The thing is, it's a big risk taking an outlier like that as the Giants as we know over the last few years. But holy crap, man, he's probably the best overall. There's an argument that he's the best overall football player on the board right now. There's other guys I really like too, but I like that call, Dan.

Speaker 2:
[63:40] It's him or McDonald basically at this point or Basantis for the best overall player on the board.

Speaker 1:
[63:44] Basantis I think is my number one.

Speaker 2:
[63:45] I think it's probably Basantis for me as well, Chase Basantis that is. But let me ask you this. How does he stack up mock draftable wise to the player that I had as a my guy in the 2023 class, my favorite corner in the class, who, by the way, I think outside of the Christian Gonzalez of that class, and I don't know if there was a corner drafted before Gonzalez. This one's worked out by far the best of any corner, like Banks and even Porter, who has good games but then gets injured and also has grabby at times. DJ Turner out of Michigan, who was my guy in my favorite corner in that whole class, but nobody liked him because of his size. I'm looking at him right now. He was 5'11 and Pons is what?

Speaker 1:
[64:25] Pons is 5'8.

Speaker 2:
[64:26] That's a problem. That is a big problem.

Speaker 1:
[64:29] He's like, that's a problem.

Speaker 2:
[64:33] That's a problem because Turner has one on the outside at 5'11, and that 90s, that 10-yard split was so obvious on D-point.

Speaker 1:
[64:42] 147. That's crazy, dude.

Speaker 2:
[64:45] I'm so mad we didn't just take DJ Turner over Banks. He was such a better player on film by far.

Speaker 1:
[64:52] Yeah, he was nice, man, but that's a good call, and I think cornerback is a realistic avenue that the Giants might explore.

Speaker 2:
[65:00] No, I'm just throwing it out there. If it's regarding that, there's also the other guys, McCoy, if he's healthy, Terrell, if they don't care about the 40-time Colton Hood you mentioned. There are some options at corner. None I'm really intrigued by. Pons is the only one I would consider outside of Chris Johnson who's gone, and McCoy if they believe in that. Now, there's a couple other guys I want to bring up. Talking about Denzel Boston, we talked about Hearst. Chris Bell is an interesting one coming off the ACL. Would they consider that if they believe his tape is so explosive? This kid, when you watch him, he's not a refined receiver at all yet, Nick, but he looks like at 223, he's exploding, beating man coverage, and then winning on horizontal routes and breaking away from defenders at a speed that looks like AJ Brown. It really does look like a new version of AJ Brown. That could be a situation where they're like, this is a guy that is better athlete than anyone left on the board, better projection than anyone left on the board, and he could change NFL games at the wide receiver position. Coming off the ACL, I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[65:57] Yeah, neither do I. That's where it gets tricky. I mean, there's other wide receivers I think I would choose. But again, I understand where the Giants would be going. At 37, I think there's a lot of other players that I would want over Chris Bell at this point. There's another player we haven't mentioned, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren.

Speaker 2:
[66:14] I was just about to mention him next. I still want to go that direction.

Speaker 1:
[66:16] I don't know if the Giants would go in that direction. More of a little box guy. I didn't get to watch him.

Speaker 2:
[66:20] He had a Toledo.

Speaker 1:
[66:21] Yeah. Giants have some ties to Toledo as we saw. At least they are not averse to spending day two picks on Toledo defensive prospects as they did last year with Darius Alexander. But I don't know. I think if they're getting Reese's, somebody who's going to be downhill on the box a lot, they're probably not going to go in that direction. But my hope is he's one of the picks in the next four before the Giants do select. And then the Giants are sitting there in a position where they could choose two of these guys, or maybe they can trade down still. I think that's a perfect option if one of these players ends up falling too. But yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2:
[66:57] That's kind of where I'm at with until the end of like until the back end of man. Chewie Riff just had a wild comment. I can't read in the comment section. You'll love it.

Speaker 1:
[67:09] Chewie Riff, we love the trolling comments. Oh, God, what a thing to drop right before the NFL draft. Holy shit, dude.

Speaker 2:
[67:18] That whole situation is insane.

Speaker 1:
[67:20] Yeah, a lot of stuff won't stop. And diarrhea just keeps freaking coming.

Speaker 2:
[67:26] Yeah, we don't even need to mention it. If you want to know, just go to our YouTube and read the chat after the fact. But what was I going to say? I was talking about McNeil. What I was going to say is, honestly, dude, until the very end of round one, the draft broke really, really well for the Giants. We, for the first time in our lives as fans, started a run of position. We started the tackle run. And that feels awesome. We finally were the start of a run.

Speaker 1:
[67:51] Fano went before us, though.

Speaker 2:
[67:52] Fano did go. So the Browns started the run. But we're at the top end of a run at a position. And then we just started to see him fly off the board. And it was great for us, dude. And I saw some edges go late. Malachi Lawrence was great. Then one player I really wanted, and I would have been in my close, like would have been for sure in my top three or top four going into day two, Kendrick Falk went. And I would have loved to play him at four eye and just put him there. We have that length and we're just good to go there. Like, just put him in. We sign Reader. We sign another nose. And we have three guys on the line that I can feel comfortable with at all times to kind of give Reese and Carter and all these guys an opportunity to really make plays behind them.

Speaker 1:
[68:32] You really started something in this chat, dude.

Speaker 2:
[68:36] What happened?

Speaker 1:
[68:37] You really started something in this chat by mentioning what Chewie Riff said.

Speaker 2:
[68:42] Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what the chat is for. And that's what I love about the chat.

Speaker 1:
[68:47] 100 percent. And you're right, man. Now, I wanted to ask you, I don't know how much you just because you brought up Keldrick Falk, there's two other players who might be available at 37, who have a similar build, and that is Zion Young of Missouri and Gabe Yoccas. Like, would we even entertain those players now that we got our Arvel Reiss, but Arvel Reiss is going to play linebacker. These guys would be, I would say, starting four-eye base personnel players who can kick inside and be used in a versatile manner who won't be liabilities on the edge. So I just kind of wanted to bring their names up as two possible, I would say, outside options. I don't really think the Giants will go in that direction, but it wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world.

Speaker 2:
[69:26] I haven't considered it. Zion Young is a more interesting one to me because he's 6'6, 270 or 6'6, 267. Sorry, 6'5, and a half, 267. The arm length and the wingspan aren't amazing. I just didn't feel like he, I felt like Falk was one of one in that regard as far as getting that long, awesome four-eye. To me, it was really just Falk or Bust. Zion Young is interesting to me, like he's in that next tier, but I don't think he would be in my top, like the top guys there. Then I see in the comments Lee Hunter. I don't know if I want Hunter at 37. I don't know if he's on that level of Miller and McDonald for me.

Speaker 1:
[70:05] I'm going to be pissed, dude, if McDonald and Miller go for those first four picks.

Speaker 2:
[70:09] It's very annoying. It's going to be very, very annoying.

Speaker 1:
[70:11] I think it's interesting. It's like, what if the Giants went Big Citrus, dude? If they went with Dominique. Yeah, 30. I mean, that would be early.

Speaker 2:
[70:19] I would not like that at all.

Speaker 1:
[70:20] Yeah, neither would I. But he is somebody who probably had a position at Iowa State because Iowa State does some weird shit with their defense and who can anchor his ass against the run. And I think there's more upside there. I wouldn't love that. I think, again, I think the best situation is just one of McDonald, one of McDonald and Miller fall to 37. The Giants make that pick. I think the Giants are doing a great job in this draft so far, just getting tough in the trenches while getting their number one player who's not a quarterback on their board at five. That's value and toughness and physicality and dependability for both McDonald and Miller. I know McDonald has a ton of experience, but he was very dependable in his 2025 tape. So that would be a home run for us. And that's what I'm hoping happens.

Speaker 2:
[71:03] Yeah. I mean, I'll just break it down and kind of circle back. And we can talk maybe just after that about one or two more names, which is like Traynon Stukes I thought was an interesting player. And if the Giants say we like him, I wouldn't be shocked. I would not hate that. Emmanuel Pregnan, who we've talked a little bit about, would not hate that either. Now we're just getting really big on the offensive line between him and Maui Anoa, and we've got a totally different interior feel and look moving forward.

Speaker 1:
[71:28] It changes what the Giants do to it. Like, again, just let's theorize this, right? It changes what the Giants are going to be just completely different from what they double dip and get like a Pregnon or a Basantis. And it coincides perfectly to everything Harbaugh has talked about and done since he was hired as a New York Giants head coach. That's why it wouldn't be too crazy because 12, 13 personnel, Isaiah Likely, Ba-ba-ba, Patrick Ricard, physical rushing attack, building off what we saw from Cam Scataboo last year, supporting your second year quarterback to allow a play action passing attack that's going to instill the fear into the defense and they can allow Jackson Dart to do his thing and not put too much of a burden on his own. All this shit, if you double dip, I like John Runyon Jr. He's probably not the most ideal fit for what John Harbaugh, Greg Roman, Matt Nagy coached offense wants to do. And I think-

Speaker 2:
[72:18] I don't even really like him that much anyway.

Speaker 1:
[72:21] Besantas and Pregnone though, especially like Pregnone has that, Besantas I think should just be like a, holy shit, that's just fundamentally sounds very good, well-rounded offensive guard for you. Yeah, who could just start-

Speaker 2:
[72:33] Jersey Kid, I love that too.

Speaker 1:
[72:35] Jersey Kid, yeah, Don Bosco guy, like that's a big deal as well.

Speaker 2:
[72:38] My big three for sure is McDonald 1, Besantas 2, Miller 3, that's my three. And I'm just hoping we can get one of those. I'm just hoping we can get one of those. My fear is Besantas goes off the board before 37, Miller goes- I'm sorry, McDonald goes off the board before 37, and then the Giants just pass on Miller because there are some weird medical things tied to Miller that I don't know too much about. But I hope that's not a problem. I hope it's not. Kanye the Great has said he's also Italian. I don't think Besantas is Italian, is he? That's not an Italian last name.

Speaker 1:
[73:09] I mean, he went to Don Bosco. He's a Jersey guy.

Speaker 2:
[73:11] If he's Italian, maybe move him up to one. At that point, you know me. I wish I was Italian. I want to be Italian in the history of the world. I've lived my whole life wanting to be Italian.

Speaker 1:
[73:23] Hey, what are you going to do?

Speaker 2:
[73:26] The best culture in the world now. Somebody said Besantas is not Italian. Besantas can't be Italian. It's not an Italian last name. Also, when's the last time we saw an Italian NFL offensive lineman?

Speaker 1:
[73:36] I feel like there are a few. No, there were Tripoli last year to keep him from Boston College.

Speaker 2:
[73:41] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[73:42] He was good in his rookie season.

Speaker 2:
[73:44] He was good. What other NFL offensive lineman do we have that are Italian?

Speaker 1:
[73:48] I don't know who our best are. I don't know who our best are.

Speaker 2:
[73:51] Italians are not big guys. It's like my people. We're not big. We have no size to us. We're all small. We lost. But you guys have other thing. I mean, you guys have the best food in the world. So let's be clear.

Speaker 1:
[74:03] We have some good sauce, bro.

Speaker 2:
[74:04] It's good cheese. You got good stuff.

Speaker 1:
[74:06] Well, outside of my big three, which I think we have the same exact, which isn't really a surprise.

Speaker 2:
[74:11] No, well, Basanta is a surprise to some. A lot of people don't want to double dip and won't even consider it. So let's say that's not you and I.

Speaker 1:
[74:17] Let's have fun with this, Dan. The all three of them go off the board.

Speaker 2:
[74:22] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[74:23] Giants can't trade back for whatever reason.

Speaker 2:
[74:25] Where are we going? So that's when I start to consider a few players. Boston, Denzel Boston, the receiver. Emmanuel Prignone, the guard from Oregon. Lee Hunter, the tackle from Texas Tech. I think some of those are reaches, to be honest. Hunter, maybe. Prignone, not so much a reach. I just don't really know if I want that. And then Boston is not a reach at all. Boston would be like probably like considered the best BPA type pick.

Speaker 1:
[74:53] A value. I think that's a value. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[74:55] I don't love the idea of that being a value, but like a fine pick.

Speaker 1:
[74:58] So with Denzel Ballot, like, I think this is like where does coming out of Clemson, where does T Higgins shape up as a prospect?

Speaker 2:
[75:10] No.

Speaker 1:
[75:10] No.

Speaker 2:
[75:11] No, I don't see that.

Speaker 1:
[75:12] Not even close. Okay. Because I like what T Higgins turned into in the league.

Speaker 2:
[75:17] I like T Higgins at Clemson too. He fell at that was a looser athlete. That's the biggest difference for me. Just that ability to uncover, I think is so much better for a player like Higgins.

Speaker 1:
[75:28] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[75:29] So for me, I don't really I don't know if I want Boston anymore.

Speaker 1:
[75:34] Yeah. For me, I think it would be Pregnon.

Speaker 2:
[75:36] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[75:37] And again, this is without after our big Miller and McDonald. So we're talking Pregnon. I think I could see Boston and then I want one of those corners, man. Colton Hood is somebody who I watched Terrell. I didn't watch Clemson's defense. I really haven't got eyes on Avion Terrell.

Speaker 2:
[75:58] I definitely don't want a corner. I'm going to start by saying that, unfortunately.

Speaker 1:
[76:01] I think the Giants could use it, man. I think their secondary is in trouble.

Speaker 2:
[76:04] This is like the range, the death range of corner. This is where I think you just draft bust after bust after bust at corner. I really see very few work out in the NFL from this range. It's a really bad range for DBS.

Speaker 1:
[76:15] Our chat right now is literally just talking about defensive lines in Italian. While also, oh my God, while also.

Speaker 2:
[76:24] Dan Rossini is Italian. Shout out Dan Rossini.

Speaker 1:
[76:27] Why are you bringing her up? I wonder. Where's Sheffy at?

Speaker 2:
[76:30] Oh, jeez.

Speaker 1:
[76:32] Jennings Dunker is a very Italian guy.

Speaker 2:
[76:35] Average fan said this was the DJ Turner range. Yeah, there's going to be some hits and I love Turner. You know that he was my guy at the corner. But DJ Turner is a one hit and then there's a lot of, and a sea of misses at corner in this range. This is a tough range for corner. You know what else is a tough range for over time? Nick, that I heard on a podcast recently, and then they went over all the guys that have been bussed from this position. It's a bad range to take edge. Edge prospects are bussed in this range, like horrible bussed in this range. You love the way I just said that word.

Speaker 1:
[77:04] No, I did, but you said it that way, and then I read Travis Murray 7403. I was like, God, dude, our chat is fucking wild tonight.

Speaker 2:
[77:13] That is a great comment, Travis Murray 7403. I will not read that out loud. But there are just the corners and edges. I don't really want one of those corners, but I'm going to start by saying this, Nick, I'm going to spend the time to watch Hood and all those guys. So if you watch them and you like them or the Giants watch them, they really believe in them, whatever, I'll get on board with it. It's just not my cup of tea. If I'm going to go outside, if I'm not going to get any of those big three, I'd kind of rather try to trade back and get Lee Hunter or trade back and get, you know what I mean? Like, I'll trade back.

Speaker 1:
[77:42] I mean, I think I'm trade back without the big three as well. Right.

Speaker 2:
[77:46] Yeah, after the big three, I'm trade back.

Speaker 1:
[77:48] I'm completely content sitting at 37. If Miller, Krista Miller, Georgia defensive tackle, defensive tackle from Ohio State, Kaden MacDonald, and then the other guy who we were talking about, Chase Besantis, the Texas, oh geez, what'd they say?

Speaker 2:
[78:02] Oh, Vyboraz, Vyboraz just made me laugh so much in the chat. Oh gosh, is this the best one yet?

Speaker 1:
[78:09] Oh, Mark Vivaro shout out. Yeah, love me some Mark Vivaro.

Speaker 2:
[78:13] Oh yeah, the best Italian and Giants history, Mark Vivaro, hey, the Stoic King himself.

Speaker 1:
[78:18] But yeah, so yeah, I would love to trade back. But I wanted to ask you about one position that I don't, like I'm not in on here, but I know the Giants brought some of these guys in for top 30 visits and that's the running back. And specifically Mike Washington Jr., who I know you watched a lot of. So yeah, just-

Speaker 2:
[78:35] I feel if we take Mike Washington Jr. and I actually like him.

Speaker 1:
[78:38] Yeah, no, the reason why I brought him up though, like I know I figured you wouldn't want that at 37, but what were your overall takeaways? Because we never got to do a podcast on him. And I know we just never really found the time to.

Speaker 2:
[78:49] I spent so much time watching Mike Washington, the fantasy stuff. So I think, first of all, the first thing on him, Nick, that I find weird, that offense was so like they had, do you know who they had, Tylon Green at quarterback who runs a 439 at 6'6. And so they ran a ton of zone read and they ran a ton of stuff off that. But then they also had like constant like H back sniffers and like receivers in motion and all this eye candy. So I felt like a lot of the runs I watched with Mike Washington Jr. were just him running through an open hole because there was like, it was just like a numbers game, like the linebackers just, they're reading their keys, they were trying to keep up with Tylon Green with the option, is he going to keep the ball, is he going to run? And then there's all these guys in motion they would hand it to, like, you know, guys coming around. And then it's just, some of the runs were just, he would pause and then he would find that gap. And it just feels like that's never going to translate to the NFL. I thought when he had a runway, he was a special player. I really did believe that about Mike Washington Jr. I don't believe that we, like, I don't need that. I don't need a runway running back. I had it with Barkley. I've seen this story before. You need the O-line to work. I just, I don't care. I don't want it. I don't care. If I'm going to take a running back in this range, it better be Jonathan Taylor fell to this round for some reason, like that year the Colts got him in round two. Okay, you want to go Jonathan Taylor in this range? Fine. God bless you. He shouldn't have fallen there. I respect it. Mike Washington is nowhere near that level of prospect, not even remotely close. It would be the absolute disaster to take him at 37. I can make the case, Nick, that taking Mike Washington at 37 is worse than Jeremiah Love at five or 10.

Speaker 1:
[80:18] Okay. I'm glad that you said that.

Speaker 2:
[80:20] I'm out on this entirely.

Speaker 1:
[80:22] I don't think the Giants are going in that direction.

Speaker 2:
[80:23] I don't either.

Speaker 1:
[80:24] Unless they loved him that much. I think they're looking to the trenches again, man. I'm trying to find that value guy with their like, wow, I couldn't believe he'd be available at this point in the draft.

Speaker 2:
[80:34] Caden.

Speaker 1:
[80:35] Outside of Caden.

Speaker 2:
[80:37] Outside of the Big Three.

Speaker 1:
[80:37] Outside of the Big Three.

Speaker 2:
[80:39] That could be McNeil Warren, it could be.

Speaker 1:
[80:42] That's kind of the guy I'm thinking of, but I don't know if he fits. The Giants could use him, but I don't think that's a pressing need. So it really would be a great, we just couldn't allow this player, this talented to escape. Or McCoy, if they want to feel risky, like we're very comfortable with what we did in round one. We want to bank and roll on the upside of a Jamal McCoy. A lot of that's going to be based on medicals though, obviously, because if it wasn't based on that, then he would have been off the board a long time ago.

Speaker 2:
[81:08] Correct. And I'll say this, a lot of my favorite players from a grade standpoint that are on the board right now, Nick, are at a position we're just not going to take. We're not going to take Jake Rodriguez. I think Jake Rodriguez would be my number one guy, but we're just not going to do it after taking our belt reason, saying already we're going to play my linebacker. We're not going to take CJ Allen, who I think would be an amazing pick right now. Right? We're just not going to do it. We're not going to take any inside backer there. So that's not happening either, Anthony Hill Junior's injury. Yeah. You mentioned Jake Goldie. Some of these guys, they're all off the board for us. So that would be maybe a surprise. I would say a player that I think could maybe surprise people if the Giants took him here, would be Jeremy Bernard or Antonio Williams. Those two receivers or if they like stribbling a lot, some people really like stribbling. That would be something that you can consider as maybe a surprise if the Giants were to do it. I don't think they're going to do that though. I really feel like they're going to be pretty locked in on the guys we discussed. To be honest with you, I think they're in on it. I think they're in on Miller or McDonald if they can get it. Quite frankly, I just love to see McDonald and Reese get drafted by the Giants. Come over after that dominant defense. Bear Walsh says, do you all see Malik S talking, Arville Reese back? No, we didn't see the Malik neighbor stuff. We'll have to figure that out after the pod. We mentioned this earlier. Yeah, to recap for me, Nick, and I think you can do it after as well, my clear top three is Kayden McDonald one, Chase Basantis two, the guard center. He also played tackle, by the way, but I think he's gonna play inside. Kristen Miller, the DT from Georgia. We talked a lot about those three. It's a big three for me. I'm open to Hunter at 37. Don't love it. I'm open to Greg None at 37. Don't love it. Denzel Boston, I'm open to it. Don't love it. Ted Hurst, Chris Bell. I'm actually, I'll just say, even though I don't know necessarily the best pick from a floor standpoint and from what's the right thing to do, I know for me, Nick, if it's 37, the Giants name or receiver, I know my personally, I'm gonna be more excited if I hear the name Ted Hurst or if I hear the name Chris Bell than any of these other receivers. That's just where I stand. They may not be the smartest pick, but I know I will be more excited to hear the name Ted Hurst. And one, over all these other receiver personally, like Boston's a safer pick, but I just would rather Ted Hurst. I just want to bet on those trades. I think they can make a difference in the NFL level. And then finally, I think the fourth best option for us outside of those big three is to trade back. And I think we can do it. So like, I don't think it's that hard to trade back from 37. Some will offer you something, you know?

Speaker 1:
[83:38] I mean, it just all depends on how desperate these other teams are. And we know that the Giants might not be looking for like the optimal deal. Depends on how they have tiered. They just want more kicks at the can. And I think they can get like a fourth round pick. Maybe they could drop down a couple or late. You know what I'm saying? I think that could be what the Giants will entertain just to really round out the roster. We see this all the time, man. Whenever a new coaching staff or front office come, they want to fix that roster. They want to make it in the image of what they're doing. Yes, Joe Shane is still here, but it's John Harbaugh's team right now. So I can easily see that happen. I have the same top three as you, Caden MacDonald, that would be... I would feel so comfortable if the Giants get Caden MacDonald at 37 and you have Francis Maui and Orbel Reese. And you're starting to really change the fabric of the Giants, but I'll say this, you'll have a critical vulnerability in the secondary. And that's why I still am mentioning these, if they have a conviction on the secondary guys, if they had convictions on these other guys, if they had that conviction, I can totally support it. And even if it's someone like Pounds, who people don't think will go this high, like he's a damn good football player though, and somebody who I think would be another one of those like culture changing type of players in your locker room and on your defense. And that's exactly what the Giants desperately need, especially on the deepest side of the football.

Speaker 2:
[84:58] And Mike mentions that you got to be right if you take receiver at 37, it's another danger zone. That's a good point. It's another area of the draft that receivers have also like, it's been really bad for edges, really bad for corners and DBs, really bad for receivers as well. There's some hits, obviously, you find your hits, but D Higgins was one of them. But there's also a lot of them. Yeah, there's some big hits and then there's some big misses as well. Actually, Kanye the Greatest brought this up. If we can trade down, I won a shot at Bryce Lance. I was a big Bryce Lance guy. So-

Speaker 1:
[85:24] You brought him up a while ago, I remember that, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[85:26] Yes, I really like Bryce Lance a lot. So I think it's odd that he's an older prospect and he didn't play at the beginning of his career. It's a decently big red flag, honestly, for Bryce Lance. Outside of that, I like his profile a lot.

Speaker 1:
[85:40] You want to get to some Supers, bro?

Speaker 2:
[85:42] Yeah, let's do the Supers. And don't forget to like the video is right. Please support the show. You hitting a like button is a big help for us.

Speaker 1:
[85:47] Javi brings it up. Like and subscribe. Thanks for the donation, bro. Great content, guys. Thanks. Thanks, Javi. Chase, appreciate it. I'm so happy we got Reese. I didn't even think I'd be- Same. We brought it up. We brought it up. I want to say a decent amount in the pre-draft.

Speaker 2:
[86:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[86:02] But a lot of the times we were like, look, it's crazy how things have happened, but it's unlikely.

Speaker 2:
[86:06] But I thought Salah would go deep. I thought it would just be Salah and the Jets would just take those two edges and that would be it.

Speaker 1:
[86:12] Yeah. No. But the Cardinals threw a wrench with love and then Dables in town now.

Speaker 2:
[86:17] The biggest wrench was the Titans going Tate at four.

Speaker 1:
[86:20] I don't think it's that big of a surprise though.

Speaker 2:
[86:22] Maybe we get a chance to talk about the rest of round one, which would have been fun. We'll have to do that after the draft because Eagles traded up for Lemon. That's a big move for them. The Eagles don't like that and then the rest of this and it was bad because the Cowboys got downs. The Commanders got styles. It was not a good break for the Giants. The rest of the NFC is I don't think the Eagles are going to do that. The Eagles will always pounce when they see blood in the water. They did it with Jalen Carter a few years ago and they did it again with Lemon. Lemon shouldn't have fallen to 22 or whatever it was. So the Eagles pounce and they got them.

Speaker 1:
[86:52] What would you say about the Jets though? Just real quick.

Speaker 2:
[86:56] Oh, the Jets. I mean, look, they had so much draft capital. It's hard to f it up. I didn't personally like Bailey over Reese. I would have never taken Bailey over Reese if it was me. Again, we talked about this on the live stream. I just don't see... Bailey to me is not a number two or big, but whatever. He's a great high side pass rusher and that's valuable in the NFL. Even if he just ends up being that, that's still really good to have. And then going Sadiq and Cooper, I'll just be honest with you, I'm not... I'll start with Cooper. I wasn't as high on Cooper as everybody else was. Like I wasn't even close to as high on Cooper as everybody else was. My question marks with Cooper was, when I watched Indiana and I watched a bunch of games for a B on the box score, I thought Sarat was the best receiver by far on that roster and so did Mendoza, because Mendoza went back to Sarat over and over and over again. So Indiana thought he was the best receiver and so did Mendoza, and so did I when I watched the tape. He was better at being a receiver than Cooper. Then the other thing is in the College Football Playoff, that other white receiver, whatever his name was, also became, and that was awesome, and that dude was kind of better than looking than Cooper too. So I respect Cooper and if he's in the right role, he's going to be awesome. He's explosive, he's strong, he's got a ton of traits. We'll see with him. Then Sadiq for me, I was not a Sadiq guy. I thought I'd be a Sadiq guy when he ran that 439. I was like, this is intriguing for the Giants. Let's get a weapon who's like 439 mismatch. Then I watched Sadiq and I was like, this is not the kind of athlete I like. This is a tight athlete, like a really strong jacked but tight hip athlete. Those are not my guys. I don't like the tight hip athletes. I know they're good combine guys. I comp them to like Vernon Davis. Vernon Davis had his moments, man, but Vernon Davis was not a live up to the hype type player. Vernon Davis.

Speaker 1:
[88:35] I didn't love him. We're pulling it out, man. Vernon Davis comps. I don't think those are so-

Speaker 2:
[88:40] You're not nearly the blocker, by the way. Let me make that clear.

Speaker 1:
[88:43] Yeah, Vernon was a star. I like investing in skilled position players. I don't know if I love those investments. I didn't hate what I saw from Omar. I was studying Fernando and I did like Sarat, a decent amount, especially at value. But I think Omar could be a good football player. I think he complimented Garrett Wilson well. But I do understand the critiques that you laid out as well. Now, where were we? Sy, people upset about Arbel Reese are insane. Him being at five was too great to pass up.

Speaker 2:
[89:13] That's what it was. For a lot of people feel he's the best non-quarterback in this draft class.

Speaker 1:
[89:18] Sy also says, I appreciate a guy expressing his honest thoughts, but jeez, those Malik neighbors quotes look all, yeah, we didn't see him yet.

Speaker 2:
[89:25] No idea what the Malik neighbors quotes are, so we're just going to have to wait and find out later.

Speaker 1:
[89:30] AFC, thank you so much. Said, I was a styles guy, but love the Reese pick. Hate seeing styles and downs going. Yeah, same here, man. Top three options for next pick, I'm old and still awake.

Speaker 2:
[89:39] Yeah, we went over those.

Speaker 1:
[89:41] We appreciate you, AFC. Keith, what's going on? Said, Dan, Apple DND syncs across devices. Parents use IPTV. It's terrible and don't use DSL. T-Mobile Wi-Fi is better. Love you. Don't need to read it. You guys are great.

Speaker 2:
[89:54] Ah, I read it. I think that was for the...

Speaker 1:
[89:57] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[89:59] Yeah, I'll figure that out, but I appreciate that.

Speaker 1:
[90:01] Appreciate it, Keith. Bear, thank you so much, says, does this force us, I don't think it forces us to take a defense and tackle second in the second round.

Speaker 2:
[90:09] But it might match value and need. If McDonald or Miller there, it matches.

Speaker 1:
[90:13] I mean, you could even argue some of the other defense. Like, I wouldn't love it, it's not like there's a ton of talent left, right? Like the board could shake out to a point where the Giants might go with Lee Hunter. Like that could happen.

Speaker 2:
[90:23] I wouldn't love, but I wouldn't hate.

Speaker 1:
[90:25] But I completely get it because the Giants, like you're looking at this roster, it's like who's playing on a defense tackle for you right now? I know they have some contingency plans in place, but you still need some long-term solutions there. Hedy Mo, thank you. The issue is the Reese pick, not offensive line. Both Bobby and Marsh had downs and styles rated well over Reese. Where did you guys have them ranked? I think Marshall.

Speaker 2:
[90:48] Marshall Green?

Speaker 1:
[90:49] I think so.

Speaker 2:
[90:51] Stop. No offense. He's a nice guy. Whatever. I don't have any comp. We're going by his rankings. Rated over. What is this guy rating? He has a big board or something?

Speaker 1:
[91:03] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[91:04] I won't go any further with that.

Speaker 1:
[91:06] Yes. But I'll say this about the question. Downs, I had as a 708 and Arville Reese has 705. I had Downs over him as well, as we said. But I do understand going Reese at the position of value and what Reese can be, especially if you are prognosticating him specifically at linebacker. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I think Caleb Downs was precocious. I think he was an incredibly talented, young, true freshman at Alabama who really understands and gets the game now. I don't like the fact that the Giants didn't go with Caleb Downs, if I'm going to be honest. But I don't hate the fact that they went with Arville Reese or Francis Maui and Noah. But I just know that Caleb Downs, I think has this difference-making potential and he's now in the NFC East, which sucks as I've already said.

Speaker 2:
[92:00] That Cowboys defense is going to be sick for them. I respect it. Yeah. I just, he said he had.

Speaker 4:
[92:08] When you hear talk about the Giants adding speed and toughness at linebacker, it's a reminder of what makes playoff hockey so intense. Every shift in the Stanley Cup playoffs is physical, fast and unpredictable, just like a linebacker chasing down a running back. NHL on TNT has the best coverage, with Paul Bissonnette bringing laughs and Wayne Gretzky breaking down the action. The studio crew makes every game feel bigger. If you want to see where every moment matters, this is the place. Watch the Stanley Cup playoffs on TNT, TBS, TruTV, and HBO Max.

Speaker 2:
[92:45] No, yeah, I'm just reading the comment again. They said they had downs and styles rated well over Reece. I don't think I could have them rated well over Reece.

Speaker 1:
[92:53] No, I didn't. I mean, I had it slightly.

Speaker 2:
[92:56] Yeah, yeah, well over seems. I definitely didn't have style. Like styles and Reece to me, I wanted styles because I thought he fit better what we needed. If I'm just rating the players, I would have had Reece higher. Yeah, I was the best player in the class. And I think you're right about that, even though he doesn't test athletically well. But I also think there's a big difference between a safety and a linebacker for me, man. I'm not as high on safety value in the NFL. I just, I see just too many plays. And this is something that you probably can correct of mine. Like, I just feel like there's a lot of plays where the safety is not involved.

Speaker 1:
[93:28] I mean, I don't know, man.

Speaker 2:
[93:30] Maybe he still is involved in some way, but not as involved is maybe the better way to describe it.

Speaker 1:
[93:35] I mean, he's the furthest away from the ball a lot of the times now. If you like him, he's a line closer to a line of scrimmage and he can execute box responsibilities. But I still think like his presence just overall like changing like the opposing team must change their approach based on the presence of this player. Like that, there's something to be said that changes the entire game plan. It changes everything. And Caleb Downs has that part. So I want to see if he impacts every play because of the sheer fact that the opposing offense has to account for him on every play. But I understand like, yeah, he might be 10 yards off the football and it's a two yard stuff and he's late. I understand it from that perspective, but I still I wouldn't like I don't know if they're playing the post.

Speaker 2:
[94:17] Like I think the safety that what downs would have been would have been more impactful on a play to play basis. So I think he would have played closer to line of scrimmage and just like you said, like intercept. He would have been like a new age safety in this, in the sense of like what the new age NFL is trying to do in the passing game. He could have done a great job of taking away with his instincts and his smarts. That I agree with. But I think Arvo Ruiz could be run and chase. He could be just like attacking your quarterback and making it a living hell for your quarterback to drop back. And then affecting the timing of every play, in addition to what he does in the run game. And that to me is just more valuable.

Speaker 1:
[94:49] I know I get that.

Speaker 2:
[94:50] I buy a lot.

Speaker 1:
[94:51] Yes, I think it's a defensive weapon.

Speaker 2:
[94:53] If you were right, I felt about styles to run and chase. I want that on my defense.

Speaker 1:
[94:58] Adam, thank you so much. I curious your guys thoughts on McNeil Warren and some of the cornerback trail hood that we will. Yeah, we that we went over that a little bit ago, Adam, but we really appreciate it. We caught that. OD. Nast, you are the man again. Just thank you so much for this. And Jays782, we really appreciate this as well. He said, unacceptable for neighbors to make the night about anything other than these players. It's rotten. He wouldn't have liked it if a future teammate did that to him as far as the picks. I like the philosophy, can't complain.

Speaker 2:
[95:25] Yeah, again, the neighbors thing, I don't know. But this is the life. This is the life of drafting receivers high, and they become stars early. Good for the Vikings. We got Justin Jefferson, not a diva. Yeah. Larry Fitzgerald, not a diva. Calvin Johnson, not a diva.

Speaker 1:
[95:42] Justin Jefferson?

Speaker 2:
[95:44] No, Justin Jefferson's not a diva.

Speaker 1:
[95:46] No, he doesn't have any diva qualities?

Speaker 2:
[95:48] No, he's the opposite. He's like living through the McCarthy crap. He's living through all this stuff and not saying a word.

Speaker 1:
[95:55] I mean, I just remember young Justin Jefferson screaming at Kirk Cousins and getting picked up a diva.

Speaker 2:
[96:01] I'm like, what are you doing, Kirk?

Speaker 3:
[96:03] What are you doing?

Speaker 2:
[96:04] Yeah. I remember Devante Adams even who's like the least not really considered diva, but he even had his moments where he was like on the side. I'm like, Jimmy Grapple is getting me killed out here. I don't feel like that's as much diva. Look, it is what it is. Receivers of personalities.

Speaker 1:
[96:16] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[96:17] But hopefully, my neighbors didn't say anything too dumb. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[96:21] Yeah. I haven't seen it.

Speaker 2:
[96:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[96:23] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[96:24] I have no idea.

Speaker 1:
[96:25] Adam, thank you again. I'm curious who you think they would have drafted to the Browns took Malinoa. This is a great question actually. I think they would have went with Juane, man.

Speaker 2:
[96:34] That is a great question.

Speaker 1:
[96:36] Now, do they?

Speaker 2:
[96:36] Yeah. I wonder what they would have done.

Speaker 1:
[96:39] Would they have? Now, I think they would have went with either Juane or maybe they won't be downs and then thought, look at 37.

Speaker 2:
[96:44] I think it would have been downs.

Speaker 1:
[96:46] Yeah. That's a great question.

Speaker 2:
[96:47] Because I think they had, well, then I don't know if it would have been downs. I'll tell you why. They said they got to their top five players on their big board. They said Reese was their number one player on their big board. So Malinoa was somewhere in that top five. He was either five, four, or three, let's say, or maybe even two. But he's probably more likely three, four, or five.

Speaker 1:
[97:05] Well, it's probably Mendoza number one. Arbel, Reese, number two.

Speaker 2:
[97:08] Oh, I thought when they said top five, they weren't including Mendoza.

Speaker 1:
[97:11] Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:
[97:12] They were big board. They wasn't on their big board.

Speaker 1:
[97:15] That's possible. But they said this when they were referencing the players, they said it top non-quarterback and they specified that. So it's like they had an evaluation on Mendoza. Mendoza was their number one, at least that's what I'm presuming. And then it would win Reese and then Malenoa. I would imagine would be like four or five. But I think styles probably fit in there and then love fit in there. Says like where's Downs at that point?

Speaker 2:
[97:38] I don't know. I'm not following. I don't think they counted Mendoza at all in this.

Speaker 1:
[97:42] Either way. I mean, the point, I guess, Stan, who would have been after Malenoa?

Speaker 2:
[97:48] Well, no, the point I was trying to make is like if Downs was in their top five and they still passed on him, like if he was higher than Malenoa, which I don't think is impossible, I don't know if they would have taken him anyway, unless they just felt like, well, look, Fano is nowhere near where we have Malenoa, and maybe they might have not had Ioane up there either. That's the thing. They might have had Downs so much farther ahead of Ioane that they were like, all right, yeah, we did want the offensive line, but we'll go with the safety here because he's so much better.

Speaker 1:
[98:15] Yeah, that's my point is that maybe they looked at it from the sense of you go Downs and then 37 that just makes 37 more interesting because you have the Jennings Dunkers, Rutledge at that point, maybe they thought he would have been available if he's not. Now, obviously, Basantas is still available. So they would have kicked the decision to beef up the trenches down the line a little bit. And they didn't do that. But I do feel comfortable. The offensive line is looking a lot better today than it did six hours ago.

Speaker 2:
[98:41] A lot better, a ton of better.

Speaker 1:
[98:43] And then thank you, Adam. That was a great question. Keith, thank you so much to demonstrate more. Yes, I don't know when he sent this in, so I'm not sure when that was referenced. We're just talking about the busts that were edge rushers, I guess, at around day two. I think that's maybe what this is in reference to.

Speaker 2:
[98:59] Oh, yes, yes. We're talking about the high bust rate. Yeah, the Montreal Awards, it was great. They went through a list of names. It's crazy how many bad players have been drafted at edge in that range. So I think it makes sense. It's like, if you're not a top edge, there's a lot of busts outside of that.

Speaker 1:
[99:13] I mean, I'm trying to think of the most successful chat. Hook it up. Who's been the most successful second round edge rushers? Like you had guys like Carl Lawson.

Speaker 2:
[99:23] When did he get like guys like third round pit? Well, OC was was OC a second round pick? Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking a little bit more recently, but Lawson had like back in the day where you can scout a kid from Troy and like nobody was on him because like there's just not a lot of info. Like at this point, like OC would have never fallen that far.

Speaker 1:
[99:39] I don't think Carl Lawson was a fourth round pick. So that's even after the players like him. They fell because he had like 30-inch arms or something, didn't he? Like then he had like short. Strahan was too. Damn.

Speaker 2:
[99:52] We used to get a lot. We used to hit this a lot.

Speaker 1:
[99:56] Tuck was a third, if I'm not mistaken, right?

Speaker 2:
[99:58] Yeah, Tuck was a third out of Notre Dame.

Speaker 1:
[100:00] Yeah, dude, I remember that.

Speaker 2:
[100:01] We were so good at drafting. Kiwanuka, no, Kiwanuka was a late one.

Speaker 1:
[100:04] He was a late one. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[100:07] JPP 16. By the way, you know what stinks in addition to that? What's up, man? Your boy, who I also agree was my boy as far as like if I was going to get him out, I went to the Cowboys. So like they did. And if he had a good day, yes, he did have a good day.

Speaker 1:
[100:22] Washington is the one pick. They got Sonny, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[100:25] And they don't have a pick for a while.

Speaker 1:
[100:27] The Ty Simpson, dude.

Speaker 2:
[100:28] Talk about that was the biggest shock of day one.

Speaker 1:
[100:31] Talk about being a lucky MF., man. Ty Simpson going to Sean McVeigh.

Speaker 2:
[100:36] Oh, my God. The luckiest thing in the freaking world.

Speaker 1:
[100:39] This kid's going to work out. Everyone's going to be like, oh, 12 teams passed on him. The Giants passed on him, but like, like, like, dude, he's with Sean McVeigh.

Speaker 2:
[100:47] That's the craziest part about it. It's like I didn't really like the idea of taking Ty Simpson around one. I didn't really like Ty Simpson, but now I have to change my mind because it's Sean McVeigh, dude. He's the quarterback whisperer. Like, I'm going to trust Sean McVeigh over my own damn self. You're damn right. I am. Why would I not?

Speaker 1:
[101:09] I'm right there with you, man. And he doesn't have to start at all. You know, like, but if you're Matt, and they cleared it with Matt and everything, but like you got to, you are in a win now mode. It's like, but I got to take care of the future too. You know, it's, it does.

Speaker 2:
[101:20] It's also a weird thing too. They are in a win now. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[101:23] I got a massive win now mode right now.

Speaker 2:
[101:25] Everyone's saying in the chat, McVeigh did not seem happy with the pick. That's weird.

Speaker 1:
[101:30] That's, that would be interesting, to say the least. Anyway, thanks bros. Have a good night. Thank you very much. We were chopping up with him all day in chat and we had a great time. I appreciate all you guys, by the way. It's almost two in the morning and there's over 500 people in here. And I really do appreciate that. And you guys are the best, man. And this is why we love doing this, Dan and I. And I love covering the New York Giants. And you guys are really showing us the support and we really do appreciate that. Calm, bright. Thank you so much. And Reeves proves going need over BPA is over here. And then he put an Italian flag, Italian here. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, I think there's still a need though, if it is the linebacker they're trying to, you know, they're not just like straight up edge rusher. I think they bring him a versatile enough to play him at linebacker and that he can last doing that. And he gets to learn from a veteran, somebody who also came into the league at 20 years old and Tremaine Edmonds, right? Like somebody who people raves about his leadership and and yeah, so that's a good spot for Arbel Reiss to land in if he is making that full transition, which it seems like to linebacker. Yeah, then we had one more or two more actually. As a spark of life, 85, I'm happy with day one. Reiss could be a freak, could not agree more than Keith also says, and we are lucky he didn't take Dart. Yeah, talk about Sean McVeigh. Yeah, that would have been better.

Speaker 2:
[102:53] McVeigh wanted Dart, and the Giants specifically traded to get Dart before McVeigh could get them. Which by the way, my brother texted me, he was so excited. He was like, wow, Ty Simpson at 16, and we got Dart at 25. It does feel great, but let's not victory lap that just yet. It's a quarterback. We need to wait on both those guys. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1:
[103:13] Well, that was our last Super Chat. This has been an awesome show. Fun stream, dude.

Speaker 2:
[103:18] Fun stream. Thank you all for being patient with me. I was obviously very stressed during their first stream. It was not easy for me to do the things I was trying to do. I appreciate you guys being patient, and this stream was relaxing and more fun. I don't know, man. I mean, overall, Vinyl Thoughts is, I'm much more excited than I thought I would be. I came into this wanting styles and downs at five and 10. Coming out of this, as crazy as it sounds, I think I like this better. I really do, because I've come to the idea that I prefer Reese over Downs. I mean, I'm sorry, over Styles, even though I wanted Styles all time. Because I just think the only reason I really wanted Styles over Reese was because I thought it was a better fit. But I'm just going to play Reese at Linebacker, where I always felt he would be better anyway. So now I'm just like, he was the better prospect overall, so I should be happier with him. And then as far as Maui and Noah versus Downs, Downs is my higher rated prospect, but again, I have trouble not wanting O-line over safety. I have a lot of trouble. I'm becoming the guy I said I didn't want to be. The guy who's like, fill the checklist with your needs. You've got to get this and then check for your tackle. And then you're overrating the position over the player. And I hope that doesn't come back to bite me. I hope they both end up great players. Downs, well, I mean, it's a cowboy, but I still hope Downs is a great player. And Maui and Noah is a great player so we can both win. But that's where I'm at, man. I just rather O-line and safety by a lot.

Speaker 1:
[104:40] Yeah, and it's hard to, excuse me, argue that.

Speaker 2:
[104:45] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[104:45] But I still, there's a big fall by a lot.

Speaker 2:
[104:49] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[104:49] And that's fair. But I love Maui and Noah. I love this tape and everything. I'm coughing over here, but I did love his tape and I did appreciate, I texted you after I watched two games and I was like, you're going to love this guy. This is an offensive lineman the Giants could really use. I don't, we should start talking about this more. And then the Giants ended up going in that direction. And I am happy for that. But it is just like Downs is like, I think he's just like somebody who's going to have, he's going to understand the Giants offense quickly, you know, in the film room and in Dallas, you know, it's.

Speaker 2:
[105:20] Yeah, that's a problem. And I think Jervish is right. He says, to be honest, I think Dan, you were higher on styles because you never really thought Reese would be there. Five. That's right. I never really thought Reese would be there. And we, you know, and that was part of that thinking process as well. And as far as Maui, you know, it goes, you text me that right after watching two games. You didn't say about any of the other linemen you watch, not to say you didn't like them. But that was the standout for you. And I'll say this, Nick, if you went into tonight and said, no matter what, the Giants are drafting off this lineman. I have inside information. If you told me that and you said, who do you want? I would have said Maui Noah out of all these guys. I honestly would have because A, I think he could be the best right guard for right away for us. And B, I actually just would have taken him attack over Fano. Fano has some upside and I'm intrigued by him. But like he's not the strongest player. And I've seen players like that not make it at times. Right. And then like Lomu, I actually thought was very underrated. At times, I thought like he could maybe be better than Fano. It's interesting. And I think the Patriots did a good job trading up for him. But I would still rather Maui and Noah over him as well. So yeah. So and then Freeling. Freeling was interesting because he's that freak from like a trade standpoint. But like he felt raw too. And then obviously Proctor went, which I thought was really interesting. Big shout out Big Blue Goon. He's a big Proctor guy. He said he should go in the mid round one. He's right. He did. That was really enough. Besides Ty Simpson, that was the most shocking pick, I think, besides Ty Simpson. Caden Proctor. And I'll say this. Like I said, when we talked about a couple of days ago, I can't watch his tape man because it makes me mad that I feel like he's a better version of what Neil was supposed to be. That's just how I feel. I feel he moved so much better. His weight distribution is so much better than Neil. Neil was just so top heavy. Why did we think that would work?

Speaker 1:
[107:02] A lot of people did and there's a reason why he didn't test at the combine and good on him because he got his bag about it. But I'm excited for day two and we'll be back here tomorrow after day two reporting on it.

Speaker 2:
[107:16] We should do that live too because I think I'll be able to.

Speaker 1:
[107:18] Yeah, we could talk about that. It will just be 37. Maybe if the Giants make a trade back, which we've seen as we said, we'll do the same thing.

Speaker 2:
[107:28] We'll recap it at the end like this with the second show and then we'll have fun. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for listening. Please, if you haven't already hit the like button, we need you to help us leave a like, leave a comment before and after the show. That's all we ever ask of you. That's great. Have a great rest of your night and we'll talk to you soon.