transcript

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Speaker 6:
[01:10] Hey, everybody, welcome to the Orange and Brown Talk Podcast. Dan Labbe, Mary Kay Cabot, Ashley Bastock with you here. Browns wrapping up day one of the NFL Draft. Tim Bielik is going to join a little bit later to share his thoughts on the draft. Of course, you've been hearing him talk about these prospects here for a few weeks on the podcast, so he's going to share his thoughts on what the Browns did, his favorite picks from round one, his least favorite picks from round one. We're going to real quickly kind of go through what the Browns did first, specifically though. And let's just take this piece by piece, Mary Kay. So first and foremost, let's start with that trade down. Not a surprise. We all knew that this is how Andrew Berry operates. We kind of, I think it was on Monday's pot or at some point this week, maybe it was Wednesday's pot, I've lost track of the days. We kind of mentioned the teams that might look to trade up or the teams that are contenders that maybe have higher picks than you'd expect. So the Rams, the Chiefs, and lo and behold, it was the Chiefs. I didn't know they would trade up to take a corner, but they did. And the Browns end up moving back to number nine. They still get their pick of tackles. They end up taking Spencer Fano, and they also add pick number 74. They had pick number 148. So they still have nine picks left in this draft over the final two days if they actually make them all. And it kind of worked out. This is something that Andrew Berry is very good at, is manipulating the draft and kind of figuring out where to maneuver, how to add draft capital, and maybe still get guys he likes.

Speaker 5:
[02:35] Right, and I think they would have been perfectly happy taking Spencer Fano at number six overall. But once they got to that point and they saw how the board fell, they still had three of their guys left there that they wanted. One was Jordan Tyson, one was Spencer Fano, and the other one was Francis Mawinoga. So they knew that they could get one of those guys. Now out of that group, their top target was Spencer Fano. So they ended up being able to trade down, pick up two extra picks, some decent picks actually, an extra third rounder and an extra fifth rounder, and still get the guy that they really wanted out of that group that was left. Now I think if had the board gone another way, they would have been perfectly happy drafting Arvel Reese if he had fallen into their lap. But the way that it did actually fall, this was the guy that they wanted. They're super excited to have him. They're going to play him at left tackle. There's no question about that. They're not thinking about moving him to guard or anything like that. This completes their offensive line overhaul for the most part. I actually still think they're going to draft a receiver. I think, I mean, a center and they need a center. So they could still add to the line. But for the most part, if they had to line up tomorrow, they would be really happy with what they have on their offensive line.

Speaker 6:
[03:58] Yeah, and I just think again, Ashley, this was a very Andrew Berry night of the draft. He again maneuvered around, he was able to kind of play around with where he picked. He was able to stay in range to get a guy he wanted. He ended up taking a traitsy big with the number nine overall pick, which we've seen when he's made top 10 picks. That's sort of where he's ended up leaning. I really do believe them when they say that Spencer Fano was the guy they wanted. I know everybody always says that, but I actually believe it just hearing Andrew talk about him, hearing Todd talk about him, and most importantly, hearing them just come out and say, he is the left tackle. Well, we'll see how things play out or maybe we'll try him here or there. Everyone was very clear. This is our left tackle.

Speaker 7:
[04:42] Yeah, there was no hemming and hawing about that today. Todd Munkin got asked and he's like, oh yeah, he's our left tackle and that was it. So I believe them too just because like we know they had their pick of the litter when it came to this deep tackle class and Spencer Fano ended up being the first guy off the board. They could have, if they liked Francis Maui no more, they could have taken him, right? If they liked Caden Proctor, a guy who I'll be honest, I think Dan, at least you and I were like zeroing in on him a little bit as this just feels like an Andrew Berry guy in terms of his traits. Like if it was any of those other guys, they could have had them. So I definitely think this went the way they wanted to, that they are happy with this pick. There was not much probably talking into this pick that they had to do in that room. And look, we found out today too, that Spencer Fano drove straight from the combine to Cleveland for his top 30 visit here. So he was definitely a guy that got in here early in this process.

Speaker 6:
[05:40] We know that drive really well. We can talk some drive from Indianapolis to Cleveland with Spencer Fano. You just get on 70, then you get on 71, and the next thing you know, you're in Berea. So a nice easy drive for Spencer to get here for his top 30 visit. Mary Kay, I think a lot of Browns fans has zeroed in on Cornell Tate. I think they had a lot of disappointment saved from themselves, from Browns fans because like Cornell Tate went earlier than people expected. He ends up going number four. So that ended up not being part of the equation. Do you think that, you mentioned the Jordan Tyson piece of it, do you think Cornell Tate going where he went had any impact on the Browns plans at all when it came to trading out of that number six pick?

Speaker 5:
[06:25] You know, I don't really think so. He was one of the players that they really wanted. They had about five that they were really focusing in on. And Cornell Tate was one of them. Jordan Tyson was one of them. Spencer Fano, as I mentioned, Maui Noga and Reese. So these were some of the guys that they really had their sights set on. But I don't think that changed their strategy because if they still had enough players there at number six that they really loved and they loved Spencer as much as they loved Cornell Tate, then they were going to try to move back. And so I think it worked out just fine for them in that regard. And of course, time will tell if they chose the right offensive tackle, the right wide receiver, because they had a couple of other guys on the board at that time as well in Denzel...

Speaker 6:
[07:23] Denzel Boston.

Speaker 5:
[07:24] Denzel Boston. Who else is on the board? And Omar Cooper.

Speaker 6:
[07:26] Omar Cooper.

Speaker 5:
[07:27] Yes. So they had two kind of bigger receivers there and they went with sort of the smaller, shifter guy that could also return puns, play in the slot and do some things for them from a versatility standpoint. But I think it went the way that they hoped it would go.

Speaker 6:
[07:42] Yeah. And, Ashley, I know you're going to write about this, but I do think that's the fascinating thing here. And we're not going to have firm answers on this, but the way it played out, there was this little run on tackle. So all these guys, we're going to see, did they pick the right guy? All these wide receivers, did they pick the right wide receiver? We can't listen. It's like 1240 in the morning here. So we're having trouble talking, which is great for a podcast. But did they take the correct wide receiver, number 24? We'll see. I know that's a boring answer. We'll see because I could see the ceiling of these picks. I could see how it looks really good and it works out really well. And this is another great draft for Andrew. I can also envision, oh my God, did Spencer Fano actually just end up being a really good guard, which I guess would be okay, but that's not what you were going after. Oh no, did this KC Concepcion have a bunch of drops and he's not the player that they thought he was, the dynamic player they thought he was at the NFL level. That's the floor of these picks. And so over the next few years, we're going to find out did the Browns get this right or should they have taken somebody else?

Speaker 7:
[08:50] We are. And I think that's what's so interesting and why I'm writing about it is because outside of Carnell Tate, like everything was in their own hands in terms of controlling their own destiny. And if they had liked to Mary Kay's point, if they had really loved Jordan Tyson, that was the number one player on their board. They would have stayed and taken him. They didn't. They thought it was worth it to trade back. They had enough guys that they liked. But now it becomes about seeing these decisions play out in real time because man-o-man of Jordan Tyson turns into like a perennial all-pro. That's going to be a decision still. I think it doesn't hurt for Browns and Ohio State fans as bad as like losing out on Carnell Tate would have, but it's something that's going to get brought up. Like any mistake they made in this first round, potentially if Spencer Fano doesn't work out as your left tackle in the future, if KC Concepcion is not as productive and does have issues with drops, it's easy to see it playing out with how people talk about the 2020 draft, and their decision to take Jed Wills at 10 that year and pass on a guy like Tristan Wirf. So it's boring to tell everyone you have to wait and see how we really feel about this. But yeah, I think for me, the biggest thing with Spencer Fano is they want him to be left-tackle. We know that's going to happen, but if it doesn't work out, that's like your second big swing and miss at that position.

Speaker 6:
[10:12] Yeah, I'm going to get Andrew deserves credit for the way he works the draft and the way he does this stuff. But you've got to also be able to pick the players. And last year, the jury is priced still out on Mason Graham as far as being a top five pick, but I think he's going to be a good player. Quinchon Judkins is a good player. KC Concepcion ends up being a part of that trade down as well, of course, because he was the extra first round pick. So you've got to be able to make those picks and add that talent. Last year was a good start. But Mary Kay, the pressure is still on Andrew because now he's got to rebuild this offense. And of course, that's where a player like Concepcion comes in because they don't have that in that receiving room. They do have some fast shifty guys, but none of those guys are first-round pick quality guys. None of those guys are like elite guys like you would want to get in the first round, and that's what they're hoping they're getting in Concepcion.

Speaker 5:
[11:02] Well, that is what they hope they're getting in him, but I also think they need to keep the pedal to the metal or whatever you do with the pedal.

Speaker 6:
[11:11] You got that one.

Speaker 5:
[11:13] And they need to continue to add more weapons. Okay, this was a good start to add KC to the room and to add him to the punt return core, but they still need a couple more guys. I'd be out there looking for another tight end, and I would be looking for one or two more pass catchers that you think has something really special about them because they need to throw some bodies at this and come out of there with a really good explosive offense. It's imperative. They really need to do that, so they've got nine more picks, and they have an opportunity here to keep going on this offense.

Speaker 6:
[11:52] Yeah, I mean, there might be a good receiver sitting there at 39 tomorrow. Do you just keep going? Do you just keep adding to that? Because I'm with you. I think you have to keep going. Like you said earlier, they still need to add a center. That's probably a position because then you can kick out in Jenkins to guard where he's been better. We still don't know what Joel Petonio is going to do. So that's kind of out there as well. But yeah, I mean, actually, when we look ahead to day two, if they want to just keep adding weapons, I don't think there's a position where they couldn't add and get better. Maybe you're done adding tackles at this point, but maybe you had a swing tackle on Saturday or something. I don't think there's a position where this team can look at it and say, yep, we are set, let's go.

Speaker 7:
[12:33] No, I really don't. And I just think, I keep coming back to this idea of on the offensive side of the football, they have not been able to score points for two years. I know I wrote the numbers in my story and I wish I had Mary Kay's memory for numbers at times like this, I guess. But, I mean, it was six.

Speaker 5:
[12:53] It was second last this year at 16.4. And then last in the NFL last year at like 15.1 or two.

Speaker 7:
[13:04] I was going to say 15.2. So maybe Mary Kay's rubbing off on me in this way. I'm honestly so proud of myself that I was even close. Like that's abysmal, right? So I think that's why you can't just look at things and be like, well, Quinshawn Judkins will be good and Harold Fannon's good. No, I think you need to surround those guys with more because I think what they're going to discover is that in year two, it gets a bit trickier, right? Like teams have much more film on Harold Fannon. Now they have much more film on Quinshawn Judkins. Defenses are going to be able to account for them, especially if they're really the only two options that you have to worry about in terms of scoring especially. So I definitely still would like to see them do more. And I was struck by Andrew Berry today talking about drafting for volume and now having nine more picks with these extra picks from KC. That phrase really struck me and I'm sitting here at 1 a.m. on Friday morning thinking, man, what if he makes all nine of these picks because he certainly sounds like somebody talking with that intention.

Speaker 6:
[14:05] Yeah, it could happen. I do want to ask you guys one more thing here just with KC because it is a topic, the drops. Had seven of them last year and obviously that's concerning for a receiver. I'm always a little torn on drops. Obviously, you don't want them. Obviously, they're bad. If you go and you look at the guys who lead the league in drops every year, a lot of times it is like a Jamar Chase. It's a Travis Kelsey. It is very good receivers, very good pass catchers that have a lot of drops. Part of that is because they're targeted so much. I don't think KC Concepcion is going to get targeted 150 times next season. It is something he has to clean up. Is it something that concerns you at all, Mary Kay with him or can you live with some drops if a guy is going to be a dynamic receiver that when he's got the football in his hands, he could score at any moment?

Speaker 5:
[14:54] There are going to be some drops. For the most part, even the best receivers in the NFL occasionally drop the ball. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how they can coach him up. Let's see how they can work with him on maybe hand, eye exercises, different things like that, that you can even do with AI and online and whatnot. Get them on the jugs, get them with the quarterbacks, and see if you can't improve that. You don't want that number to be super high. They already had that last year with Jerry Judy. Jerry was way too high in the drop category. So you don't want that. Fans do not tolerate it well. And it's something that they have to work on with everybody. So it just doesn't become an issue.

Speaker 6:
[15:39] Yeah. Again, like I said, I sort of have a weird... Like Jamar Chase. If Jamar Chase drops a couple passes, I can live with that because he's Jamar Chase. KC Concepcion is probably not going to be Jamar Chase. So there's that balance there. He might have some drops, but it can't be as high a rate as it was last year.

Speaker 7:
[15:57] It can't be. And look, I think the problem is that I don't think this regime has historically done a great job, obviously, of finding those guys, right? I mean, their best moves for receivers, I would argue, were trading for Amari Cooper and then drafting Donovan Peoples-Jones in the sixth round because of the production you got out of him for a few years. And it's like you don't want it to become, with the drops, an Anthony Schwartz situation where it's a guy who you feel very strongly about and he's got all these traits, but he can't hold on to the football and then you basically become unplayable. So, I mean, it just seems like it's not at that level with KC and he does a lot of dynamic things very, very well. But you're going to need to keep doing those things to make up for any of those drops that still might carry over.

Speaker 6:
[16:42] All right. We're going to take a break here on the Orange and Brown Talk Podcast. When we come back, our draft guy, Tim Bielik is going to join us and we're going to talk more about these Browns picks and a little bit more about what happened in round one.

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Speaker 6:
[17:25] Welcome back to the Orange and Brown Talk Podcast and we welcome on now Tim Bielik, who of course you've been hearing him on our draft pods here for weeks. Tim, how are you?

Speaker 8:
[17:32] Doing all right. Nice to have the night and a little earlier than we're used to, especially night one. I still remember the days when it was 15 minutes on the clock for picks. I'm glad we're down to eight.

Speaker 6:
[17:43] That was the biggest development of this entire draft was the eight. I didn't realize the impact it would have and then I looked up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we're at this pick already. So that was great. So let's talk through a couple of these Browns. Let's talk through the two Browns picks that were made and maybe get some of your favorite picks from this first round here. Let's start with Spencer Fano. This is a guy that we did spend a lot of time on. Where was he on your tackle board?

Speaker 8:
[18:08] I had number two behind Francis Maui-Noah, but it was close for me. I even tweeted, it was a 1A, 1B situation with him and Maui-Noah as far as who the better tackle was. I did think Fano had the better chance to kick out to the left despite shorter arms, which for me, I've said before, I couldn't care less that his arms are just a little short. It didn't stop Will Campbell from being a left tackle and nobody really complained about him until the Super Bowl in New England. So I think with Fano, he moves well, power is good, the demeanor is really good. I saw a line in the Dane Brugger guide that he plays like someone blanked in his Cheerios. So I think I'm sure for Browns fans who want demeanor in offensive linemen, want nastiness, guys that I talked about before want to change the culture in the offensive line group, I think Spencer Fano is a guy that could certainly do that.

Speaker 6:
[18:58] Yeah, and Andrew even told us when he talked to us when the night was done, like don't fall for him being like a nice guy when you talk to him. Like there's certainly something mean there. He can be a mauler. So, you know, look, as all of this was playing out, I don't know, you know, there eventually was a run on tackles, but this sort of worked out perfectly for the Browns and that they were able to trade down. They were able to add a little more draft capital and they were still able to have their pick of tackles there at number nine.

Speaker 8:
[19:26] Yeah, I think it kind of worked out favorably that the teams they traded behind in Washington, New Orleans, probably weren't going to take offensive tackle. Washington always felt like a team that was going to go defense in New Orleans. Them going Jordan Tyson was in a shocker. And I wrote about this after the Fano pick that it felt like the car nailed Tate pick by the Titans at four. It probably made the Browns decision for them. Cause it felt like if Tate was there, you would at least had a decision to make between Tate and Fano and would Tate off the board. It made a lot of sense to drop back, pick up that extra third round pick. I've called that second to mid third round really the sweet spot of this draft. And now the Browns get another pick in there. And they get a guy who was a very strong case for being the number one offense to tackle in this draft and Spencer Fano. So it was pretty good work there, Ryan Trueberry.

Speaker 6:
[20:13] Yeah, it seems like Fano was going to be their guy either way. But I think that just the optics of Tate going to number four, so that they didn't even have to make that decision, I think that helps them. But I mean, I think if I would have told you on one of our draft pods that, hey, they're going to be able to get Fano at nine or, you know, they're going to be able to have their pick of tackles at number nine. I don't know if we necessarily expected it to play out like that, but that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 8:
[20:38] Yeah, and that's certainly, like you said, it certainly kicked off the party at offensive tackle. I mean, Francis Malloy, no, it goes right after Fano at 12. It's Cain Proctor, 14th, Venga Ioanna, Blake Miller, the Strong Soul Kid, 17, Freeling, 19, Ihanachor, 21. I mean, my goodness. Obviously, the reporting before the draft about offensive tackle certainly played out that way. The Browns were kind of fortunate to be in the position where they were able to stay ahead of the Giants with Maui Noah. Probably more of a true right tackle. I think that Fano is a guy who I think he could pretty much play either tackle or guard depending on how he pans out. And depending on the scheme that Todd Muckin and George Warhoppe are instituting on the offensive line. So a lot of versatility there. And again, the demeanor I think is something that we've talked about before is something we want that I think the Browns could have focused more on with the offensive line. Certainly seems like they got a guy who is going to play with his hair on fire.

Speaker 6:
[21:33] Well, and I think too, it just speaks to and I had been thinking this kind of throughout the process. Like if you're going to get your tackle, you're really taking a big risk if you decide you want to wait until 24 or try to move up from 24. I think it just always made sense if you wanted to get your guy, wherever that first pick ended up, whether you traded down or stayed at six and made the pick, if you were going to get your guy, it had to be with that first round pick.

Speaker 8:
[21:59] Yeah, it certainly played out that way. It seemed like Andrew Berry really had a good feel for how this was going to go. Take him out of the board for Jordan Tyson coming off at eight. Obviously, by trading out that pick, you were sacrificing Jordan Tyson. But the fact that there wasn't a receiver taken until 20 with McKay Lemon proves that the Browns had a good read on this first round.

Speaker 6:
[22:21] So with KC Concepcion, obviously, at number 24, and again, it almost played out perfectly for them. It just in the sense of like they almost had their pick of whatever receiver they wanted, and then some guys started to get picked up. I thought Lance Rysland was going to maybe lose his mind if McKay Lemon ended up there at number 24 and he was a Cleveland Brown. But again, that position kind of worked out perfectly for them where they didn't have their pick of everyone, but they had their pick of a good number of guys, and of course, they chose Concepcion out of that group.

Speaker 8:
[22:50] Oh yeah, and they were close again, Lemon. I don't know if you saw the story that kind of came out of the reporting that-

Speaker 6:
[22:55] I was just catching up on that.

Speaker 8:
[22:57] Yeah, about the Eagles being on the phone with McKay Lemon right before the Steelers were about to pick him. And I joked on Twitter that the Penguins and Flyers are in a playoff series right now. And I don't think Pittsburgh could hate Philadelphia any more than they already do after that. But that was a little aside. Getting back to Concepcion, I thought he was a worthy pick at 24. I personally would have gone with Omar Cooper Jr. just because I feel like his strengths against zone coverage are much better than Concepcion's. I would have to see if I can get some advanced data. I would have to ask somebody if there's advanced data on his zone yardage, because I wonder how much his 2024 at NC State really hurt him in that department, because his freshman year at NC State and last year at A&M were clearly his better seasons. Then 2024, for whatever reason, his numbers just weren't as good. But with Concepcion, I'm willing to look past the zone numbers more than I was for Denzel Boston, because he can win multiple ways. He can win with burst off the line. He's a guy who can rack up yards after the catch. He's one of Lancelor Island's touch guys. I think he could certainly be certainly a guy that a lot of people will look out just with his speed and sees a slot guy. I think he played a lot more on the outside last season at A&M than he did in his two years at North Carolina State. I think with Concepcion, you added some electricity to this receiver group, and it was badly needed electricity. May not be a one, but I think he could be a two. If you have a receiving corps with a couple of twos in Jerry, Judy, and KC Concepcion, if KC lives up to his potential, I think you certainly have good building blocks there for what I think would be an improved receiving corps.

Speaker 6:
[24:32] Real quick, and this is something you've talked about on the draft pods, but can you explain the zone, when you talk about guys against zone, what you're looking for and why that's important to you?

Speaker 8:
[24:42] Yeah. I can't take credit for this. This is from an account on Twitter called I Don't Watch Football. You'll go read it. They can do a better description on it than I ever could. But the gist of it is, this guy discovered that NFL, based on sharp football analysis data, that 20 teams out of 32 ran zone last season 70 percent of the time. Basically, the better you do against a defense, you're going to see seven out of every 10 snaps, the more appealing I think you are. When you look at the top two receivers in the NFL, as far as receiving yards, Pukka Nakua and Jackson Smith and Jigba, they were elite against zone coverage. The history of guys who struggle against zone and go in early in the draft is not great. Being sub two three where KC Concepcion is in the low 1.8, it's not great, so he's an outlier. The reason I was willing to look past it is because of the fact that he can win multiple ways. I feel like maybe that's something they can improve as he goes in the NFL. Again, the ability to do different things with the football are reasons why I was willing to overlook that. I wrote about it. It's in my Hack in the Draft series. If you want to take a deep look at it or check out I Don't Watch Football on Twitter, they do some great stuff with analytics. It really makes you think about just something to watch when you're scouting receivers, not just for this year, but in future years.

Speaker 6:
[26:10] You mentioned some of the guys that were still on the board. You said you really liked Omar Cooper too. I think what is interesting here is we are going to get to see this play out a little bit. The Browns took Fano and then there was a run on tackles. The Browns took Concepcion and then there were some receivers who maybe they potentially could have taken that maybe you would have liked there as well. I think that's the beauty of this is we get to see this all play out now over the next few years. Did they get it right? Did everybody just end up winning and get a good receiver and a good tackle or whatever? We get to see these decisions play out now over the next few years just because of how everything fell.

Speaker 8:
[26:46] I mean, the NFL draft is the ultimate beauty is in the eye of the beholder weekend long saga. So, I mean, we again, Fano starting to run tackles, not surprising. KC Concepcion going in the 20s, not surprising. The theme, I think for me, it goes back to it feels like every single one of Andrew Berry's first round picks, Jedrick Wills, Greg Newsome, Mason Graham. At the time, you could sit there and be like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's very sensible. And that's something that always, I always thought about Andrew Berry's like, even if the picks didn't pan out, that's panned out for whatever reason, you could understand why they made those decisions in kind of the vacuum of the yard. And for Andrew Berry to finally, use some resources early in the draft on offense, it's something I've kind of, I've said before, I would be, you know, I kind of pointed to something he needs to change. He certainly went ahead and did that. We'll see if he does it again tomorrow night.

Speaker 6:
[27:40] And I will mention, you know, as we kind of, we don't have a lot of first round picks to work off of with Andrew Berry. But I had mentioned this over time, like if I was going to be wrong about this pick, and I was wrong with the player they took, but if I was going to be wrong, I was going to be wrong about them taking a big. And I think we're, you know, with Mason Graham, Jedrick Wills, now Spencer Fano, we're seeing that if that need and that player align, he is going to lean towards a Tracey Trenches player with these high picks. And that's sort of an NFL-wide thing. That's why there was that run on tackles.

Speaker 8:
[28:13] Absolutely. It's kind of funny, it's kind of interesting, you know, that the last two first, the first two picks, the Browns I've had in the last two years, Mason Graham and Spencer Fano, they're not just big guys, but they're big guys with attitude. And I've talked before, you know, I keep talking about, you know, changing the culture and offensive line, and getting those nasty, those guys with attitude, that's something you absolutely have to have. As much as the AFC North, I think it's become an offensive division with Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow. There's still some gritty physical play in the trenches. And with Todd Monk and what he did at Georgia and Baltimore, I'm not surprised they went with Fano. We saw how important those offensive lines were when he was running the offenses for both teams. So not surprising that, you know, Fano was the choice there, number nine. It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 6:
[28:59] Okay, give me your favorite pick from tonight.

Speaker 8:
[29:02] Ooh, favorite pick. Yeah, I would have to say Caleb Downs. I mean, how in the world did Caleb Downs fall to 11? I even tweeted, like, did the NFL learn nothing from Kyle Hamilton in 2022? Did we learn nothing? Kyle Hamilton is one of the 10 best, like easily one of the 10 best offensive players in football. And he fell out of the teens in that draft. And Dallas, all they had to do was move up one spot to get Caleb Downs. I mean, my goodness. Like, are you kidding me? I know, I know safety is not a valued position. I've argued before that we should be valuing it more than we do. But how in the world did Caleb Downs fall to the Dallas Cowboys at 11 overall? Good on Jerry Jones. I mean, that, I mean, that could have worked out much better for them. Considering all those Ohio State defenders were all, were go drop, going out the board rapidly. I mean, Arville Reese at five, Sonny Stiles at seven. Certainly, I don't think the, I think we all knew the Browns were unlikely to go defense. I wouldn't have been shocked at all if they had taken Caleb Downs. But to see him go at 11, I mean, my goodness, what a steal for Dallas. That's one of the biggest steals I can, that's easily the biggest steal of the night for me.

Speaker 6:
[30:08] Give me your least favorite pick. And I'll say this, if it's Ty Simpson, don't give me Ty Simpson.

Speaker 8:
[30:14] Well, I wrote about Ty Simpson why it's either a grand slam or a strikeout. So I won't give you that. I'll go with the guy taking, I've got a couple in my mind I'm kind of torn between right after Caleb Downs with Kaden Proctor 12th overall. I've talked before how he's just not my guy. You know, I think there's too much boomer bust with him. And when we talk about offensive line, I always want to, I always would rather or in general, I would rather guys I have to rev down than have to rev up as far as intensity goes. And it feels like there's way too much boomer bust in Proctor's profile. For me, if I'm from a Browns perspective to really have looked at him, you know, kind of where he was in 12 was kind of early for me. But if we got into the 20s, I would have considered it. And then Caleb Banks at 18 to the Vikings, this was a guy who I think would have been a first round pick had he not broken a bone in his better tarsal. I believe it was his right foot. But that was at the NFL Combine. And I thought that was going to take him out of the first round. And instead, he goes in the top 20s to a Vikings team that I thought should have taken, you know, Dylan Deeneman or Emmanuel McNeil Warren because Harrison Smith is gone. And no one would have bad an eye about that. And for Caleb Banks to go 11 picks earlier than Peter Woods, who for me was the unquestioned number one defensive tackle in this class. I don't know. That was a little surprising. That was pretty much the biggest negative surprise of the draft for me, even more so than Proctor because Proctor, I could at least understand.

Speaker 6:
[31:37] So I'll let you go with this one. What would you do? What do you hope happens for the Browns? What would you do to start off day three here and really just the entirety of day, not day three, day two?

Speaker 8:
[31:48] I would try to trade down again out of 39. I mean, I'm looking at my board of guys from our composite top 150. There is a ton of defense right here. I'm just doing the quick rundown. There's no offensive guys in this list outside of Denzel, Boston until you get to Jeremy Chase-Basantis, the interior offensive line for Texas A&M number 45, Jeremy Bernard of 47. I mean, KC Concepcion kind of makes him a little more redundant. So maybe I would, if you're to take receiver, I will wait for Ted Hurst or even Chris Brazel from Tennessee. I would take Hurst over Brazel, although I wouldn't understand Brazel. I wouldn't have a problem with, I feel like he's had good zone. He's been closer to the 2.3 zone threshold than, you know, Cedric Thoma was in his draft year. So I think that would be an interesting choice. But if on the Browns, this would be a prime time to trade down again for a team that is really desperate for defense, wants to get in the mix for those defensive guys. And especially if someone wants to jump the Cincinnati Bengals and get Jacob Rodriguez at 39 overall. Because I think because of his age, I doubt the Browns would take him because he's an older prospect. And I've talked about, I've tweeted with the Bengals that I feel like he's a dream pick for them, in my opinion. Like that would be prime territory to trade down, see if you can get another third round pick and give yourself another shot in this top 100. I've said before, it's a sweet spot and there's a lot of defensive guys to pick for him. So really, the Browns, I think, because of the picks they made tonight, have put themselves in a position where they can be fairly your pure best player available. And even though the even though we're talking about a team that won five games last year, that's not a bad place to be in where you kind of purely just pick the best talents on the board and just continue to stack talent on this roster.

Speaker 6:
[33:30] Okay, that is Tim Bielik. He does a bunch of draft workforce. You can find it all at cleveland.com/browns. You can also find him on Twitter. It's just at Tim Bielik, right? B-I-E-L-I-K. So you can find him there. Okay, X, I guess I should call it X. So you can find all his work there as well. That's going to do it for this edition of the Orange and Brown Talk Podcast. Find us on all your socials, speaking of socials, whether it's threads, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, go look for Orange and Brown Talk. Give us a like, give us a follow. And also find our YouTube channel, Cleveland Browns on cleveland.com. If you want to watch our podcast as well as listen to them. Like I said, that was Tim. You heard from Mary Kay and Ashley earlier. I'm Dan. Thanks for listening, everybody.

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