transcript

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Speaker 4:
[01:25] The Next Pats Podcast Draft Special is presented by John Sewer in Drain Cleaning, the name to know when the drains don't flow.

Speaker 5:
[01:35] Patriots making a move up in the first round of tonight's NFL Draft as New England selecting offensive tackle Caleb Lomu out of Utah with the 28th overall pick. Pat sent their first round pick which is number 31 overall as well as a fourth rounder. They sent that to the Buffalo Bills to move up. So the Patriots taking Caleb Lomu and here's what Elliott Wolf had to say about the draft pick just moments ago.

Speaker 6:
[02:03] We drafted Caleb Lomu from Utah, traded up three spots and gave up a fourth round pick to acquire him. Really excited about this player. He's young, he's experienced, he's athletic, he's a great kid and frankly I was a little surprised that he was still available and that's why we decided to move up a little bit and we're excited at him.

Speaker 5:
[02:32] All right, welcome to The Next Pats Draft Special presented by John Seward and Drake Leaning, Tom Giles, Tommy Kern, Bert Breer from Sports Illustrated. We got Phil Perry, our draft guru as well and I'll just start, Phil, are you surprised that Lomu was there and that the Patriots moved up to get him?

Speaker 7:
[02:46] I'm not necessarily surprised that he's there. I am a little surprised they moved up to get him though I think it's a smart move. The reason why I'm a little surprised that they moved up was the tier of talent, generally speaking, at that stage of the draft, I didn't think was such that you would necessarily make an aggressive move, give away draft capital in the middle rounds, which evaluators consider is the meat of the draft this year in order to move up. But in this instance, with tackle being a need, with these guys being really hard to find and impossible to find in free agency if you want to try to pay one, I think this is a smart move and you bring them in and you work them behind Morgan Moses and eventually you have your right tackle of the future of Will Campbell's, the long-term answer on the left side, which I know the Patriots is how they see him.

Speaker 8:
[03:30] Yeah. My understanding is they're going to start working him at right tackle. We'll see how that winds up playing out. The idea is to get good young players here and then figure out the best five. I think it'd be impossible not to think about what happened in the playoffs here and how Will Campbell struggled when he started to play some of the elite rushers in the league that demands that position, the types of players that you're going up against. Not to say that there aren't good players on the other side of the field too, that happens, but the left tackle is one of the five or six most important positions in football. And so I think at the very least now, you've got a guy who took fourth overall, and when Will Campbell, who's a really good football player, but might not be at his best at that position, and you're giving yourself a second swing at it, if it doesn't work out with Will Campbell where you make the determination that he'd either be better at right tackle or inside. Go ahead, Tim.

Speaker 5:
[04:22] I was just going to say Elliott Wolf apparently also just reiterated that. Will Campbell is their left tackle, so he reiterated that as well. We'll bring you more Elliott Wolf as it comes down and as we see fit. But Tom, it felt like we were talking for days about the Patriots potentially moving out of the first round. Instead, they actually move up to get their guy. So I guess what does that say to you about maybe them going out and addressing a need as they see it?

Speaker 9:
[04:45] They drafted for need and Mike Vrabel said just a couple of weeks ago at the owner's meetings, you don't want to be in that position, but the Patriots were in that position. They are in that position. They don't need to put on airs. They are still a team that needs to draft for need and they're going to continue to need to draft for need in the next few rounds. They still need edge. They still need defensive tackle, which is shallow edge. Phil and Bert can tell you are better spots in this draft. But I do think they drafted for need. If I was to project it out, I would think that Will Campbell gets this year. He has a fourth overall pick. He had a very good rookie regular season. He had a pretty significant knee injury, tried to come back, looked like ass. He'll be better. But they definitely drafted for need because Morgan Moses, I would imagine, is the incumbent who needs to be beaten out by Caleb Lomu at right tackle.

Speaker 7:
[05:34] You have so many needs. I think getting a premium position in the first round, at the end of the first round, to me signifies a victory. And that's why I say moving up to go and get that guy makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 9:
[05:45] I don't think they have to apologize for drafting for need. It's just that there's other ones that were more dire, I suppose.

Speaker 7:
[05:52] I guess you would look at the edge and say that to me is the one spot where you look at it and say, boy, they might need like a starting caliber day one kind of edge defender, right Bert? But I think they were smart about attacking it in this way because in this year's draft, in my opinion, and in the opinion of evaluators that I've spoken to over the course of the last couple of weeks, the edge guy that you would get at 31, 32, 33, 34, might not be that much better than the edge who's available to you at the bottom of the second round. And so you're using the depth of the draft this year to your advantage saying we can bypass what might be a little bit more of a glaring need, take the more scarce position first and then try to address the other stuff on day two and three.

Speaker 8:
[06:36] I think scarcity is the word. The overwhelming perspective of NFL people was there are seven offensive tackles going in the first round this year, and there is a pretty significant drop off after that, to the point where you might not be able to find a starter after those seven guys are gone. After 21 picks, six of the seven were gone. So if you were the Patriots and you're looking there, we want to take care of tackle, now there's one left and you're 10 picks away. And so I think as like Caleb Lomu starts to drop and teams start to pass on him, I'm sure there was a little bit of, man, like if we could take care of tackle, it'd be really nice to do that. We really like this one. And then eventually it gets to the point where it's like, okay, like we don't want to lose them. Kansas City had been rumored to want to put another tackle in the pipeline. Not sure if they trust the kid that they drafted last year fully and Josh Simmons. And so, Kansas City was probably going to, there was a good chance Kansas City was going to take a tackle. Don't know for sure, but get in front of them and get the seventh tackle because you know the drop off is severe after that.

Speaker 9:
[07:44] And even if he's not the best player available, by the time all the other tackles have come off the board and you're at 21, as Albert pointed out, you're getting closer to 31. You're like, well, there's a couple of guys ahead of him, but this is a more dire need. So let's jump here because as Phil pointed out, we got a long wait.

Speaker 5:
[08:02] So obviously protecting Drake May is the most important thing for this franchise. On the flip side, also you talk about needs. You're talking about a Patriots team that probably wants to get back to the Super Bowl. And this is a guy that's, I would assume not projected to play as much next year.

Speaker 7:
[08:17] Maybe not right away, but you never know with somebody like Morgan Moses, and really any offensive lineman, regardless of age. I mean, they have a left guard right now and Elijah Verac Tucker who's dealt with so much injury. He's been great when he's been on the field, but it's been hard to keep him on the field. I think you're a training camp injury away from having a real problem on your hands for the entire day of the season, and now you're not. So is he fully ready? Is he exactly what he's going to be long-term right now? No, he's a younger player. I believe he's a redshirt sophomore. So he started a couple of years at Utah, but he is still young in a draft class where you're going to see 25-year-olds go off the board. You already saw one tonight in Akeem Mezzadour, the pass rusher out of Miami. So he's going to get stronger, he's going to get heavier, he needs to, because those are some deficiencies in his game. One of the reasons, Bert, this is such an interesting pick to me is that I know there was some debate about Lomu's wiring and how well it fits the Patriots because he's not Will Campbell from a finisher's standpoint, from a mauler's approach kind of standpoint on the offensive line. For a team that really values identity, the way that the Patriots do, how many times do you hear Mike Vrabel use that word? Do you want your first pick to be a guy who doesn't fit that identity like a glove? That to me I think was the debate. Obviously, they got over it.

Speaker 8:
[09:31] You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of them taking Nate Solder in 2011. And I think if you read the profile of Nate Solder back then, there were some similarities. Like Nate Solder was seen as this kind of young, really green, but big, long, athletic tackle who still had some growing to do, but eventually was going to be a really good player. And if you remember, they still had Matt Light. And they wound up going to the Super Bowl with Matt Light, as his left tackle. Matt Light retires after that year, and Nate Solder moves in and becomes the left tackle. I think that's sort of the idea here, is that you've got a guy who has real high end potential, who may not be what he's going to be in three years, but you take him when you have the flexibility not to throw him out there and destroy his confidence. And remember, this is a guy who kept the ninth pick in the draft in Spencer Fano on the right side at Utah, right? So, athletically, the Utah coaches saw something where they said, this guy who's, winds up being a top 10 pick who can play all five positions, the Browns took him ninth overall, like, we're not playing him at left tackle, we're taking this other guy.

Speaker 9:
[10:40] And that's what's ironic is, he fits the suit of a left tackle, Will Campbell has all the intangibles and attributes that you're looking for from an offensive lineman.

Speaker 5:
[10:50] Okay, that's about 10 minutes of talk on the Patriots draft pick right there, their first draft pick, which again is Caleb Lomu. Meanwhile, there was other Patriots news today. The Mike Vrabel drama overshadowing draft night just a little bit. Vrabel dropping a bombshell around midnight, announcing that he will miss day three of the NFL draft. Vrabel telling ESPN's Mike Reese that he has committed to seeking counseling, starting this weekend. Interesting timing is the New York Post also released more photos today. And this time Vrabel and Diana Rossini were seen kissing at a New York bar six years ago. The Patriots head coach met with the media at 720 tonight and discussed his decision to be away from the team on Saturday.

Speaker 10:
[11:33] My priorities are my family and this football team. And in that order. And there's a balance there that I am going to create. And my family needs me this weekend. And that's where I'll be. But I'm confident in the people that we have. I'm confident in the preparation. I'm thankful for Elliott and his staff that have prepared us for this night, for this weekend.

Speaker 5:
[12:03] All right. So Mike Vrabel will not be there for day three. And the Patriots, they had eight picks on Saturday coming into the night. Now they've got seven after they traded that fourth rounder in order to move up tonight. Tom, how big of a deal is it that he will not be there on Saturday?

Speaker 9:
[12:17] It's significant. And I certainly understand from a personal aspect where he says, it's time for me to incorporate some balance. And the best way to do that is if this is as urgent as it seems to be and should be for Mike, and his family is that important, then yes, you do need to put that first in your personal life. But it's unmistakable that there will be a level of absence that the Patriots will feel. Because as Elliot Wolf said just a couple of weeks ago in the pre-draft press conference, Mike is eyes balls deep on this entire thing in terms of being up on players, articulating what he wants and having everyone understand what he's looking for in a player. So he's not just a touchstone, Albert and Phil, he's really guides the conversation and the decision-making, and he'll be absent from that. So this impacts the team.

Speaker 8:
[13:07] Yeah, I think it's, I actually like, I know people had kind of like jokes like, oh, well, you know, the level of importance here, like day one of the draft, day two of the draft, counseling day three of the draft, right? I'd actually make the argument that it's maybe more important for a guy in his role to be there for day three. Because that's where I think things are way more complicated. The decisions aren't as high impact, right? But I'd say like when the first couple rounds of the draft, the hay is kind of in the barn. You've been working on that forever. There's probably a handful of people you're comfortable taking. Take what happened tonight. Six tackles come off the board. There's the seventh tackle. We like him too. Let's see what the point is where we can go up and get him. You go up and get him. Like, I think they could operate, they could make that happen without Mike Vrabel in the room, right? What's harder is when you're in the fifth and sixth round and you're cutting through all these different positions and this guy's a scheme fit, but this guy's a program fit and you sort of have to like work through a much thicker stack of players. I would actually argue that it's probably more, there's probably more damage done him not being there day three than day one or two considering the amount of focus that's put on making those first and second.

Speaker 9:
[14:20] It also impacts incoming calls I would imagine on trades.

Speaker 8:
[14:23] Right.

Speaker 9:
[14:23] Because you're going to Elliott and Elliott is then going to turn to Ryan Cowden and stretch and they're going to be channeling Mike Vrabel instead of having him there.

Speaker 8:
[14:31] Yeah.

Speaker 7:
[14:31] I think what might make it, I think Burt's right, especially you have eight picks lined up on day seven.

Speaker 8:
[14:36] Seven now, right?

Speaker 7:
[14:37] Seven now, right. By losing the fourth. But there's not the volume. What I'm trying to say is when you're picking in the first round, a lot of teams are going after the same players. On day three, especially the later you get, you have your certain guys that are kind of off the radar and another team will have another handful of certain guys. I think you can get your guys sometimes in the later rounds. In a way, in the early rounds, you can't. If you have a certain number of guys that are earmarked, because this guy is a great gunner out of Kansas and you have no idea that anybody else is even really looking at him and you think you got a good shot at getting him, I think that's a possibility. I did find it interesting today, Giles, when he was speaking to reporters today, he talked about the fact that if they really need to get in touch with me on Saturday, they could probably get in touch with me, but I want to make sure I'm focused on what I'm doing with my family. He was wrestling with the balance of being there for his team as well as his family. It felt like that entire media availability period that we saw from him earlier today.

Speaker 8:
[15:36] If we really want to dive into the weeds too, like a lot of times the head coach is a closer on undrafted free agents. If you have two or three undrafted free agents you really want, and a guy's got a couple offers that are similar monetarily, and the other team can put its head coach on the phone and say, hey, you know, we love you, we love to have you here, and the Patriots can't do that, that could be a little nuance, you know, where you lose a guy or two because he's not in the room.

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Speaker 5:
[16:29] Welcome back to The Next Pats Draft Special. Major development that could impact the future of AJ Brown in Philadelphia. The Eagles trading up to select USC wide receiver, Mackay Lemon with the 20th pick in the draft. This comes a few days after ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that AJ Brown was likely to be traded to the Patriots on or after June 1st. Time now for the Name to Know presented by John Seward in Drain Cleaning. Name to know when the drains don't flow and that name of course is AJ Brown, the Eagles wide receiver room. Oh, it's pretty crowded after the editions of Lemon, Hollywood Brown, Dontavia Wicks, all that coming this offseason, Elijah Moore as well. So I mean, AJ Brown eventually is going to have to become a patriot, you would think. And if so, what price? Let's get further into it as back here, Giles, Curran, Breer, Perry. Do you think that the leverage or the price changed at all with the Eagles coming out there and acquiring Mackay Lemon-Burtt?

Speaker 8:
[17:26] It just everything seems to be lining up right now for this to happen. I mean, you can go back to signing Hollywood Brown and trading for Duntavian Wicks and now getting Mackay Lemon and there are only so many seats in a receiver room and certainly this sets up for them to trade AJ Brown. And I just look at it, they're already invested, deeply invested in a receiver and Devontae Smith who I believe is ready to become a number one receiver and they bypassed other needs here too. Like I think most teams felt like they were going to take a tackle, they were still in range to take a tackle. When they trade up to 20, the Steelers are right there and so the Steelers wind up taking a tackle, the Steelers were a threat to take a tackle. I think most people would have said, okay, they're going to take a tackle and they wind up going with receiver, which by the way, he was on the phone with the Steelers. So they wound up getting it right that they needed to get in front of the Steelers to get Makai Lemon. But it certainly seems to set up to free the Eagles up to trade AJ.

Speaker 9:
[18:27] Brown. As you see this first round unfold, is anybody showing up as a glaring wide receiver needy team that could step to the floor and be competition for the Patriots for AJ.

Speaker 8:
[18:37] Brown?

Speaker 7:
[18:38] Well, you know what was interesting was we saw Kansas City, and correct me if I'm wrong, Bert, but they did not take a receiver. They had two picks.

Speaker 8:
[18:46] They had a D lineman and a corner.

Speaker 7:
[18:48] And a corner. And I look at them and have really for the last couple of years, as a team that needs a receiver. And if you're AJ. Brown and you have a short list of teams you're willing to go to, would Kansas City not be one? I don't know if they were initially. We get a chance to play with Patrick Mahomes. It sounds like they're optimistic he's going to be ready sooner rather than later in terms of maybe being able to start the season there. So that might be one, Tom, to answer that question. There's not a lot of them though. I think a pick like this one actively harms their leverage in a trade with the Patriots. I don't know how it doesn't. You could say Dontavian Wicks, that's not an AJ Brown replacement. Hollywood Brown, that's not an AJ Brown replacement. McKay-Lehmans, not really either. They're different types of players. But that's a serious investment in that position. It's another investment at that position this off season on top of several others. How are they not trading AJ Brown? And unless there's another suitor for them, who are the Patriots negotiating against? Why would they give up anything of huge value for this guy?

Speaker 5:
[19:43] That's it, the market would be set by anyone else looking to trade for AJ Brown. So that's why I think when you bring up Kansas City or any other teams that didn't, to your point, your question, Curran, any other teams out there that were looking for a wide receiver that didn't get one, would they be in the mix there? Because it feels like everyone's just assuming that this is gonna happen on June 1st, but it's still April.

Speaker 9:
[20:04] Which brings us back to the initial conversation we had earlier this week. The Eagles are somewhat over a barrel because they don't need him. He could be an agitation for them, but the Patriots are over a barrel because they basically promised AJ Brown to the populace. So having done that, the Eagles go, you got to trade for him. We still stick it solid here at a one, and Kaishan Booty or whatever they demand. The Patriots are like, well, what are you gonna do with them? Nobody else wants them. You have to take the two. So it's really, and I'm not saying could get contentious, Albert, but I wonder from your vantage point in speaking to the number of executives you do around the league, is this just a matter of dotting I's and crossing T's? Or could this go into a level of Howie Rowe's been trying to save face, or the Patriots trying to win the deal?

Speaker 8:
[20:54] Yeah, I mean, I think you have an idea right now, if you're the two teams, what it would take to get a deal done. And I think the reason you can't push it across the goal line is because, I mean, who knows? Who knows? Gee, it's been a long night.

Speaker 4:
[21:07] It's been a late night.

Speaker 8:
[21:07] It's been a long night.

Speaker 9:
[21:08] But is there a gentleman's agreement that either team would...

Speaker 8:
[21:12] I would say the reason that you can't push it fully across the goal line is because everybody wants to leave open for the opportunity that are changing circumstances. So let's say for one reason or another, and I don't know who this would have been, but there was a receiver that the Patriots really liked that all of a sudden is falling down the board. And man, like we could have him under cost control for four years. Like are the Patriots going to not pursue that receiver because of a gentleman's agreement with the Eagles? And then if somebody comes along in May, say somebody has an injury in OTAs, and now all of a sudden someone needs AJ Brown. Are the Eagles all of a sudden going to say, no, you can't do that.

Speaker 9:
[21:52] Yeah, you got to wait outside the church, you can't start down the aisle.

Speaker 8:
[21:54] Yeah, too many things can happen. And I think that's part of the problem with the June 1st part of this, is that a lot of things can happen to send things astray. But as of right now, it certainly looks like they're going to try to get, they're going to push a deal over.

Speaker 7:
[22:13] And the sense around the team, from my understanding, is that this is the assumption, is that they're going to end up with AJ. Brown. But Burt's point's a great one. Say Dejan Stribling, who's a really interesting receiver from Ole Miss, actually, 6'2, 210 pounds, he kind of profiles similarly to AJ. Brown. He might be the best blocking receiver in the draft. He's got that physical mindset. If he falls to the Patriots at the bottom of the second round, or maybe even later than that for some reason, he just ran a 4'3, 6 in the 40. He's a pretty special player. But for some reason, he's not really considered a top tier receiver in this year's class. If they love him, why wouldn't you maybe give that guy a shot, as opposed to the guy who might only be good for two years that you're going to have to pay $50 million to over the course of the next few years. It's an interesting game for us to sort of engage in, just as a thought exercise almost, because these are the kinds of questions I think they have to ask themselves in that draft room.

Speaker 5:
[23:03] One of the other questions too is, with everything else surrounding Mike Vrabel right now, how might that impact AJ Brown in a potential deal and making that happen over the next month and a half?

Speaker 8:
[23:14] I think they're close enough where I almost feel like this would enhance the chance of it because I do think like, I think AJ Brown has Mike Vrabel's back. I think it would appeal to AJ Brown the idea of being the solution for Mike Vrabel. So like I don't look at this as in any way, lessening the chance of a trade happen. I think it would increase the desire of AJ Brown to be here because of the close relationship that those two have.

Speaker 5:
[23:41] Okay. Meanwhile, Howie Roseman went talking to the media after they took a wide receiver said once again that AJ Brown is a Philadelphia Eagle. So he's sticking with that.

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Speaker 5:
[25:21] Now, all right, so again, the Patriots trading up in the first round to grab the last tackle, considered a consensus first round pick. That would be Utah's Caleb Lomu, 6'6, red shirt sophomore, just 21 years old. He's going to be 22 in December, started every game that left outcome for the Utes the last two years, named first team all Big 12 last season. So how does he feel about playing right tackle?

Speaker 14:
[25:47] Yeah, I feel great. I just want, you know, want to play whatever positions open. I just want to get on the field and get out and play. You know, Will Campbell already sent me a text. I haven't been able to respond yet, but you know, I love that being able to come into a room. You know, they just dropped him last year. Two guys are going to be able to learn, you know, newer guys. And so I'm so excited for the opportunity. I'll play wherever, you know, I'm coming in to play some football, the game I love. I'm able to play any position. And so wherever the team needs to be, I'm going to be able to play and just so excited to be part of it.

Speaker 5:
[26:17] All right. So he does look young. And again, he's not going to be 22 until December. But your initial reaction to hearing from Caleb Lomu?

Speaker 9:
[26:24] You know, he presents as a nice kid from that 18 second snip. So as a result, I would imagine if Campbell's reaching out to him, he's got Morgan Moses playing ahead of him. Jared Wilson, terrific guy. Vera Tucker impressed me and Winn, who's a veteran. He's got a lot of guys around him who for a 21-year-old babyface kid who's coming into the league can say, you're an awfully nice kid. Can you be a little bit more of a dink at times? Because that's really what we're looking for. You have to be nasty upfront. I think those guys could be a good influence on him.

Speaker 8:
[26:54] I think it's good to getting to see these guys will get to grow together. There's probably no position group where cohesion and communication and all that stuff is more important than along the offensive line. I think back to the dominant Dallas lines of a decade ago, and they drafted Tyron Smith and Travis Frederick and Zach Martin, I think within a three-year stretch. Those guys were able to come together. They all made each other better and wound up becoming the best offensive line in all of football. I think they had DeMarcus or Zeke Elliott won two rushing titles running behind them.

Speaker 9:
[27:30] And so you have the opportunity. And all the Super Bowls too, Fidelis.

Speaker 8:
[27:33] You have the opportunity to build something like that.

Speaker 7:
[27:36] It is amazing. The building of the line, Giles, might not stop on Thursday night. I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future here, they're investing in a guard, and then we're talking about, okay, Michael Wenu's future, but now you're talking about another young player who can grow and develop with this group. But I just want to share one thing that I heard from an NFC offensive coordinator earlier this week. His team was in the offensive tackle market. We were talking about Lomu and his wiring and his willingness to finish and this and that. And do you really want to invest there if you care about your identity as a team with your first round pick? And what he said was, listen, I can coach guys to finish. I can't coach athleticism. I can't coach guys to be able to stay in front of some of these war daddies up front, some of these freaks on the end of the line of scrimmage to be able to mirror those guys. I can't coach that. Lomu has that second thing. He might not have the first thing, but if you're in the right environment, maybe over time it can develop.

Speaker 5:
[28:28] You can rewind.

Speaker 7:
[28:28] Especially for a young guy like Lomu.

Speaker 5:
[28:30] Okay, you brought up guard. Let's take a look at Phil Perry. Your list here of potential day two targets. Players to watch.

Speaker 7:
[28:38] Yeah, you're not going to see a guard there, but a guy like Emmanuel Pregnon from Oregon would be an interesting one. The guy at the top of the list to me is fascinating because he ain't going to block worth a lick at tight end. But Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt is a really fascinating weapon. There's some love for him in the Patriots building. Gabe Ackes, the edge defender out of Illinois. Violent, much more of a Vrabel type of pick if they go that direction on day two. Our Mason Thomas, similarly violent, I would say, just a smaller package. By the end of the second round, if he's still there, that would be an interesting one. Kieron Crawford, similar deal, little newer to the sport, but juice off the edge. He's an edge rusher out of Auburn. And then Emmanuel McNeil-Warren. My guess is he goes early in the second round, Giles. He was widely mocked, widely considered to be a first round kind of talent. You're looking for that safety that could do a little bit of everything. Play near the box, really make an impact against the run, but also cover tight ends. He's not Nicky Manwari from Seattle, but he could be used in that mold in the right kind of defense. He's a really interesting player too.

Speaker 5:
[29:40] All right, biggest need, Tommy Curran, as you look at it. I mean, Phil just had a tight end up there. Certainly, Edge, everyone's been talking about quite a bit as well. So how does that kind of maybe influence where they decide to go?

Speaker 9:
[29:50] It's funny because tight end, when you look at it, it's similar to the right tackle position. Hunter Henry is a very good player, but you need to out there. And to me, Julian Hill is not probably a pass catcher. He's more of a third tight end blocker who's not going to be out there giving you that aspect. So I think tight ends big. I do think defensive line is big because Christian Barmore, again, forecasting this could be the last year that he's with the team because of his ballooning contract after this year and no guaranteed money. So end edge, tight end.

Speaker 8:
[30:23] Yeah, I agree. I think edge is the number one need. I think that part of why you do why you did what you did tonight was because there's better opportunity to fill that hole at edge than there would be at offensive tackle. And I think that that's the thing that you know, talking about drafting for need, I think this is where it does come in, where you have to look at like your picks as a mosaic, and it's like, okay, like we can fill this position here, or like maybe we're waiting till a third or fourth round, and that guy we're drafting in the third or fourth round is a backup, or we can just fill that position in the first round, and then this other position, you have guys like later on. So, you know, our Mason Thomas is somebody I had circled. When you listen to the way that Elliott Wolfe talks, I just don't know that he's gonna make it to when the Patriots pick seems really unlikely.

Speaker 7:
[31:13] I'm not sure either. You know, you hear a lot about, you know, violent big body, dead rushers, guys like Zion Young are still available. There's a few others, TJ Parker from Clemson. I just don't think that's what they're looking for. They need somebody who's gonna be able to get up the field, bend around the edge like a Harold Landry in his prime type of guy. And there's only a handful that I would really consider in the second round.

Speaker 5:
[31:35] Well, they started the day, by the way, with eight picks on Saturday, right? They're down to seven. So is there potential for them moving up and saying, you know, hey, let's get a couple of these picks on Saturday where Mike Vrabel is not gonna be there on Saturday, package a couple of those and try to move up again sometime tomorrow, whether it's the second or third round.

Speaker 8:
[31:51] Yeah, I think that's certainly in play. I mean, and again, like I think this is the meat of this class, like I think, and it's, we don't have time to get to what like NIL has done to all of this, but like I do think like the sixth and seventh round picks, if you look in past years historically, because of how many kids are staying in school, five and six and seven years now, the sixth and seventh round picks are like more analogous to what undrafted free agents have been in the past. So I think those picks are a little bit more movable. And so like I would look at-

Speaker 7:
[32:20] They also might be a little less valuable.

Speaker 8:
[32:22] Right, right. They're a little less valuable, but I do think like the makeup of this draft class is that way where everybody you talk to say, the teams that are going to win this draft are going to win this draft on Friday. Because that's where like the value of the draft is from like 30 to say 100.

Speaker 5:
[32:40] Okay. The other question, because we talked about wide receivers earlier in the show, is Kaishan Booty. As you look at the Patriots and the depth chart, you also brought up if there was sibling from Ole Miss, if there's someone they could have their eye on. What do you think Kaishan Booty, what his prospects are for the Patriots as we get into it?

Speaker 7:
[32:58] I think he's probably the odd man out. He plays that X role, which is what AJ. Brown would play here. Kyle Williams is actually an X too, so you're just overloaded with that spot within your receiver room. It's a crowded receiver room to begin with. I think you'd move on from him. Maybe you'd acquire a pick for this year or next year.

Speaker 5:
[33:13] I was going to say, could he be traded this weekend, Kaishan Booty?

Speaker 7:
[33:15] Potentially, but if you can get a pick for next year, that might actually be even more valuable the way they're loaded up these day three.

Speaker 9:
[33:21] I would think dealing him this weekend because you don't want to put the card of the horse with Kaishan Booty for all the reasons that you guys laid out about why AJ Brown isn't fully consummated. Something happens on another team with OTAs, another team emerges. So if you say goodbye to Kaishan Booty, who's a valuable player and then find yourself, now we don't have enough wide outs. So I would imagine they would want to take one before moving on. But I think it's interesting that you can move up. I don't know if there's nine more players who can make the team here.

Speaker 7:
[33:49] No, I think you're probably right about that. And with Booty, Tom makes a great point. I would actually, not that I'm second guessing this, I would probably wait until after the draft. Get AJ Brown, send him for a third, day three pick next year and you're on your way. Because my guess is the investment that they've already made in that position in Romeo Dobbs, the investment we think they're about to make in AJ Brown. An early pick, a guy who's really going to contribute offensively at that spot just feels unrealistic to me. If they get a receiver, I wouldn't rule it out. But it would be a later round pick type of guy that would be a contributor on specialty.

Speaker 8:
[34:22] I think the one devil's advocate thing here is you want to carry a player in your roster who doesn't want to be here and you're damaging his ability to produce in the fall. By all accounts, he won't be here for OTAs. He's going to be missing OTAs with his new team, which puts him in a tougher position to earn a new contract.

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Speaker 7:
[34:54] We only met a month ago.

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