transcript

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Speaker 4:
[01:35] There are always some surprises on Draft Night, Rub. That's what makes it so much fun.

Speaker 5:
[01:39] Especially with Howie. It never, I mean, we said it on the show before the draft. The odds of them actually picking it 23 were slim. What do we say, like 15 to 20 percent? And he didn't. He moved up again, which is his favorite thing to do in the draft in the first round, and got a player they really liked and was a top 15 player for them.

Speaker 4:
[02:00] Yeah, Makai Lemon is a Philadelphia Eagle. This is the Eagle Eye Podcast, brought to you by Nissan, Reuben Frank and Dave Zangaro. The Eagles moved up three spots from 23 up to 20. They traded with the Dallas Cowboys, which they've done before for Devontae Smith a few years ago. In that trade, they gave up both of their fourth round picks. They're getting a seventh rounder back in 2027, but they get their guy, Makai Lemon.

Speaker 5:
[02:26] Yeah, a player they really, really liked. They were really high on. They were afraid he was going to... There are a couple of teams that they really thought were interested, who were picking well before the range they could move up for. But he got by those teams, and they knew the Steelers liked him. And there's kind of a funny anecdote that I'll let you share. But they got the guy they wanted at 20, and how he's aggressive, he's going to be aggressive. If there's somebody that he really likes, and if he doesn't think that anybody worth 23 is going to be at 23, why stay at 23? So you either move up to get a guy that you really like and is worth giving up a couple of picks, a couple of pretty good picks. I mean, a couple of fours, that's like how he loves those mid-round picks. Got some good players with those kind of picks. But he'll either move up or he'll get out of 23 and move down. But more often than not, he's going to move up, and he did tonight.

Speaker 4:
[03:21] Yeah, Makai Lemon is the pick, sub-six foot, not the biggest guy in the world, really tough player. The Blitnikov award winner as the best receiver in college football last year. He's excellent. I mean, he's an excellent, excellent player. I'm surprised though. I did not think the pick was going to be a receiver. I didn't think it was going to be Makai Lemon. So I was under, I really thought it was going to be an offensive tackle. And the way the first round started to play out, I thought, okay, they're going to make a trade up here for an offensive tackle because at 17, you had Blake Miller go to the Detroit Lines and you had Caleb Proctor go way ahead of that. He went 12th. But at 17, you had Blake Miller go. Then 19, Monroe Freling goes to the Panthers. The Eagles trade from 23 to 20. I thought it was going to be Maxie Honnitore.

Speaker 5:
[04:14] That's your guy. You've been championing him.

Speaker 4:
[04:16] Who ended up going the next pick to Pittsburgh. But the Eagles move up to 20 with the Cowboys. They get Makai Lemon. The funny story about this is Makai Lemon picked up a phone call from the Pittsburgh Steelers who thought they were going to draft him because Dallas was on the clock at 20. And I think everyone kind of assumed Dallas was going to go defense right there. Instead, the Eagles trade up and they're trying to call Makai Lemon. He's not picking up because he's on the phone with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Eventually he picks up and they tell him the news. But it sounds like Pittsburgh jumped the gun a little bit.

Speaker 5:
[04:54] Sounds like it. And that tells you how much they like the kid. But look, if there's a team picking before you, and in this case it was not the Eagles, but if the Eagles are in that kind of range, kind of picking right after you, you know that it's a possibility of how he's going to move up. So the Steelers probably should have known that was a possibility. And Howie said he doesn't like to make a pick until he's called the player and talked to the player. And he said it was kind of getting down there to the end. There's only eight minutes in the first round this year. He said he was kind of running out of time. Now, obviously, they would have picked him if they couldn't, if they were out of time, but they got in touch with him, talked to him.

Speaker 4:
[05:32] It sounded like he was a little annoyed at the Steelers.

Speaker 5:
[05:36] It did sound like he was a bit annoyed. Yeah. And he was asked if he had conversations with the Steelers after the pick. He's like, no, we didn't talk to the Steelers. Why would we?

Speaker 4:
[05:49] Well, I mean, Andy Weidl is out there, right?

Speaker 5:
[05:50] Yeah, he is. I'm sure that one felt good for Howie.

Speaker 4:
[05:55] Yeah. So Makai Lemon, super productive in college. I want to pull up his numbers from last year.

Speaker 5:
[06:01] 11 touchdown, 79 catches. What do you have, like 1,160 some odd yards?

Speaker 4:
[06:08] He had 1,156 yards. You were close.

Speaker 5:
[06:11] I was off by four yards, David.

Speaker 4:
[06:13] Yeah. Average of 14.6 yards per catch. Doesn't drop the football. Had four drops his entire college career. Toughness.

Speaker 5:
[06:23] AJ had three in one playoff game. Sorry.

Speaker 4:
[06:27] He did. Man, you're never going to let AJ live that one down, are you?

Speaker 5:
[06:30] I shouldn't. None of us should.

Speaker 4:
[06:31] All right. Yeah, he's a great player. I didn't think he was going to be in their range, honestly. When we did our pre-draft podcast and we were picking the most likely guys, I thought about Makai Lemon. I went with Jordan Tyson. In hindsight, I should have known Tyson was going to go a little bit earlier. But it does bring up the question, like why do you think Makai Lemon fell to them? Not fell to them, he didn't fall away to them, but got into their range.

Speaker 5:
[06:58] Did Lemon, was he one of the guys we drafted on that pod on Tuesday?

Speaker 4:
[07:02] No.

Speaker 5:
[07:02] We didn't draft. I'm looking here, I have him going 16 to the Jets in my last mock draft, which I'm sure Howie thought the Jets were a possibility. We had heard, you kept hearing the Rams liked him. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[07:18] The Rams go quarterback, which maybe threw some people off.

Speaker 5:
[07:21] Yeah, threw me off. Did not see that coming. But they got a 40-year-old quarterback who's still really good. But anyway, that's beside the point. The thing you keep hearing about Lemon is, and I didn't think he certainly would be there in the 20s, is just physicality and toughness that is unusual for his size. And he is a smaller guy, but he's certainly not a finesse player. He's a tough guy that likes to mix it up. The word I saw a couple of scouts use was a brawler. He's just a guy that's going to be physical and take it to cornerbacks and be the aggressor. And I like that. And I think people are going to like the way he plays. And I don't think he's a guy that you're going to watch play and say he's small. I think he's tough.

Speaker 4:
[08:12] No, and it's funny that two of those guys now.

Speaker 5:
[08:15] Yeah. Does that bother you at all?

Speaker 4:
[08:18] What, the undersized guys? No, it doesn't. It's the thing that strikes me, though, is that they have rebuilt this receiver room in a unique way, because we talk so much in the pre-draft lead up, like, you know, what kind of receiver would they want? And there are players like Jordan Tyson, who are like the complete package. But a lot of the names people were talking about were like those big bodied, like, height, weight, speed, prototypical outside X receivers. Because we all know AJ Brown isn't going to be here. Like, it would be like a one for one. All right, AJ's gone. Plug this guy in and go. And they rebuild it in a different way. And I think that's okay. It's just maybe not what some people were expecting.

Speaker 5:
[09:07] Yeah. And actually, on the show before the draft, I was going to be asked and we didn't have time for this segment. I was going to be asked if you're okay with having two smaller receivers. And I use Lemon as an example of, if you draft a really good player, I don't care what his measurables are. And I don't care that he and Devante are both, you know, neither one's a really big guy. We know what kind of player Devante is, and I think I know what kind of player Makai Lemon is going to be. I think he's going to be a really tough, he can play inside or outside, played mainly inside this past year. But he can play outside.

Speaker 4:
[09:46] Yeah. This from Dane Bruegler's beast, 75.6 percent of his career snaps in college were in the slot.

Speaker 5:
[09:53] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[09:54] Does that bother you at all?

Speaker 5:
[09:56] No, it doesn't bother me. I mean, gosh, if he plays 75 percent of his snaps here in the slot, I mean, slot receiver is a starting position now. We see slot receivers catch 80, 90 balls for 1200 yards. So if he turns into a slot and you're playing, you know, Devante and Wicks outside, if that's what you do and it works, then I'm okay with it. Somebody's got to play inside.

Speaker 4:
[10:26] Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I thought the one thing Howie brought up, which I really agree with, is how savvy he is against zone coverage. That's like a football instincts thing where he needs to be that because he's, you know, he's not like he doesn't run a 4-3, he doesn't jump out of the gym. But doesn't mean he's not a good football player. And like sometimes we get like the traits for some of these players are crazy. And his, his like his pure athleticism, just by like the testing numbers, he did not test at the combine, but like he ran a 4-5 at his pro day, didn't do any of the jumps. And I think there's probably a reason he didn't do those jumps. But you watch him in the field drills and he looks the part. And you watch him on the field and you see him know where to sit down in his own. And you see the toughness Nick Sirianni brought up. Like, and it was tough to hear Nick talk about this without thinking about AJ. Brown, to be honest with you. But like that is competitiveness shows when he's not getting to football, when he's blocking for his teammates, when when he's running around and the ball's not going to him, like the competitiveness is always there. Like, that stuff all matters now. You know, is it fair to wonder if his ceiling is somewhat limited because he doesn't have like these crazy, crazy athletic traits? Yeah, I think that's probably not a concern, but a fair assessment of something that could happen. But he's a really good player. He's a really good player in college. And I think he's going to fit into this offense well.

Speaker 5:
[12:01] Yeah, and I think I agree. It's not a concern, but it's something to keep an eye on. Because Howie likes drafting guys who have like one really like remarkable trait, at least one, you know, either this guy's got great size, he's got great speed. There's something about him, you know, strength, one trait that sets him apart. I'm not sure Makai Lemon has that as far as measurables go.

Speaker 4:
[12:25] Yeah, not the measurables. I think he has some of those things, whether it's like the way he moves, the intangible type of understanding of zone coverage and understanding of how to be a creative and sneaky route runner. He has those things, but he's not going to jump out of the gym.

Speaker 5:
[12:48] Yeah. Last year at USC, what did we say? Did you give his numbers already?

Speaker 4:
[12:54] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[12:54] He was second in the conference to Jeremiah Smith, was he?

Speaker 4:
[13:02] That would make sense.

Speaker 5:
[13:04] What?

Speaker 4:
[13:04] That would make sense.

Speaker 5:
[13:07] Yeah. First wide receiver taken from USC since Nelly. I like Nelly. We've been talking about Nelly a lot. Nelly was better than you remember him.

Speaker 4:
[13:20] I feel like you've been talking about Nelly a lot.

Speaker 5:
[13:22] Nelly and Molls have.

Speaker 4:
[13:23] I don't know if I have been.

Speaker 5:
[13:24] No, you haven't been in that conversation. But yeah, I think it's a fun pick. If there's any doubt before that AJ wasn't going to be here, I don't think there was. Look, you don't make this pick if AJ is going to be here, if there's any chance AJ is going to be here.

Speaker 4:
[13:42] Now, do you think this pick makes it more likely that there's already framework of a deal in place? Because look, if you make this pick and you don't have some framework, in place, theoretically, it tanks your potential compensation back for the player, right? It's showing everyone, all right, he's not going to be here.

Speaker 5:
[14:05] Yeah. No, that's a fair point. Either there is a framework or Howie knows there's going to be multiple opportunities and he's not worried about it. Because yeah, he wouldn't have done it if that was it. But then you lose them and you don't have a two. So look, AJ is not going to be here. I mean, I think there's a very good chance. I think one of our emails first raised the possibility a couple of weeks ago. Do you think the deal is already done?

Speaker 4:
[14:34] Yeah. I've heard a bunch of those questions. I don't know. There's nothing against the rules to do that. I think it might be frowned upon by the league, but there's nothing in writing that says you can't do that.

Speaker 5:
[14:49] No. No, and all this would be unnecessary if you could trade a player with a June 1st designation. You can release a player, but you can't trade a player.

Speaker 4:
[14:59] Yeah, I wonder if that's a bylaw that gets proposed at some point.

Speaker 5:
[15:02] I'm going to propose it.

Speaker 4:
[15:04] I don't know if you have the power to do that.

Speaker 5:
[15:06] I've got more power than you think.

Speaker 4:
[15:07] Okay. If you have competition committee power, it would make sense.

Speaker 5:
[15:11] It would make sense. I think it really would. You'd avoid this whole situation.

Speaker 4:
[15:17] So he was the third receiver taken in this draft. You had Carnel Tate go number four overall to the Titans. Then Jordan Tyson goes eighth overall to the Saints. And then it took a while. I mean, he was just sitting there for a long time for Makai Lemon at 20. Then after him, Casey Concepcion at 24 to the Browns. Omar Cooper Jr. sneaks in there. Jets got back into the first round to draft him at 30th overall.

Speaker 5:
[15:51] Yeah, it's not how I saw the wide receivers lining up when this all started.

Speaker 4:
[15:58] Maybe not. I think Tate was always a good bet to go first.

Speaker 5:
[16:03] I think Tyson was a good bet to go second. I just saw Lemon go a lot higher, I guess. I thought he'd be the third.

Speaker 4:
[16:08] Yeah, well, we really had that run on offensive linemen. And it makes me wonder if the Eagles weren't thinking, hey, we're probably going to get an offensive linemen. But then those guys started coming off the board in a hurry. You had Spencer Fano at nine, then Francis Maui Noah at 10, Kaden Proctor at 12, Venga Ioane at 14, Blake Miller at 17, Monroe Freeling at 19. Like all these offensive linemen came off the board so quickly.

Speaker 5:
[16:34] And then your guy at 21.

Speaker 4:
[16:35] Yeah, Max Ihanichur right after. So the Steelers didn't get Makai Lemon and ended up taking Ihanichur, which I kind of thought the Steelers were going to go offensive tackle. So I was surprised to hear that they had Lemon on the phone.

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Speaker 5:
[18:24] Yeah, I was too. But Howie knew, Howie knew, Howie always knows.

Speaker 4:
[18:29] What do you think about the pic? Obviously, like, Howie's the GM. He, he has earned the benefit of the doubt. Do you, do you like what they did here? Is this what you would have done?

Speaker 5:
[18:39] I do like the pic. I thought he was one of the, one of the top 15 players in this draft. And I think considering the AJ situation, you're getting a guy who's, what, eight years younger, has healthier knees, is going to be a lot cheaper. Obviously, you're going to have to, you know, it's going to hurt your cap, but that's a different thing. I do like, I like the pick. I think this guy is going to be really good pro, has a ton of upside. Another weapon for Jalen. And in the context of the whole wide receiver room, you know, you added, you know, Hollywood, you added Wix, and you added more. And now you add this, I mean, that's four wide receivers. Howie said we wanted a basketball team of wide receivers. So he's got those four in DeVante and Britton Covey, Johnny Wilson.

Speaker 4:
[19:33] Darius Cooper.

Speaker 5:
[19:34] Cooper. And it's a big change in that room, but I do like the pick.

Speaker 4:
[19:44] Yeah, I think like the value was there for the pick. And with the Hineshore going at 21, I feel better about it, honestly. You know, if the choice came down to trading up to 20 for Makai Lemon or staying at 23 and drafting Ehana Shor, to me, that's a way tougher decision. But like, if you're going to trade up, I think Howie wanted to maximize the value. And I understand if he had Lemon ahead of Ehana Shor on his overall board, I think I would have as well.

Speaker 5:
[20:17] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[20:18] Doesn't change the fact that I, you know, tackle is a problem long-term. They haven't figured it out.

Speaker 5:
[20:24] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[20:24] I thought they were going to figure it out in this draft. We should mention Kenyon Sadik went 16 to the Jets. I thought maybe a modest trade up for him would be in play. Going up to 16 would have been a lot. So I'm not surprised they didn't do that.

Speaker 5:
[20:40] And I really, I don't think there's really any tackles left, any.

Speaker 4:
[20:45] Well, there, there's tackles.

Speaker 5:
[20:46] I mean, there's good players, but there's nobody who like slid out of the first round.

Speaker 4:
[20:50] No, I think that's fair. I mean, and that's the thing. It's like, if you want to tackle, we talked about this on the on the clock special before the draft. You want to tackle, you got to go get them. And the Eagles, I understand why they weren't moving up to get Maxie Honichor. I get it. Even though he was my guy this whole process, I think the value is better for Lemon. But I kind of expected them to get a tackle.

Speaker 5:
[21:16] Yeah, we've said that for a few years now.

Speaker 4:
[21:18] Yeah. And the board just hasn't fallen their way. Now, I think there will be, we're going to talk about some targets for day two. I would think tackle is going to be one of them. But there's a steep drop off. Whereas at receiver, I think the value on day two is better. I think the space between the caliber player you get in round one and round two is smaller at receiver than it is at tackle. I think there's a pretty great divide in the tackle world.

Speaker 5:
[21:52] Yeah, I would agree with that.

Speaker 4:
[21:54] Doesn't mean it's not the right pick because you did get one of the top three receivers in this draft. Whereas, you know, you would have been what, the fifth, sixth tackle?

Speaker 5:
[22:03] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[22:04] Six, whatever it is. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[22:06] One, two, three, four, five. Yeah, he was sixth. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[22:12] Six offensive linemen or six tackle?

Speaker 5:
[22:13] Six tackle.

Speaker 4:
[22:14] Wow, yeah. So like, I understand it from a value perspective, but tackle something that, you know, keep an eye on going forward.

Speaker 5:
[22:21] Howie was asked about it. He mentioned Big Fred. I mean, he's not the long-term solution. He can get you through a game or two.

Speaker 4:
[22:28] Let's stick with receiver, though, if you don't mind. We talked about the names in this receiver room. Devontae Smith is going to be the Alpha. He's going to be the wide receiver one. Look, overall, the situation stinks with AJ. Brown. He's an all-time great eagle, won a Super Bowl here and he's going to be moving on. That stinks. No way around it. It stinks. But I think the bright spot of it is that we're going to get to see Devontae Smith be the wide receiver one. And I think he's going to excel in that role.

Speaker 5:
[23:00] Yeah, I think he's always been good enough to do it. It's just, you have AJ. He's not going to get the targets of AJ. But to me, Devontae is a one. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he has 90 catches for 1,400 yards and 11 touchdowns this year. I just think he's that good. We've seen it. He just hasn't had the volume of targets that A.J.'s had. And that's been really the difference. But he'll get those targets this year. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[23:32] And I can't wait to see him and Makai Lemon and Dontavian Wicks and Hollywood Brown in this offense, because I think this is going to be an offense that is way less dependent on just star powers, winning star power receivers, winning or one-on-ones. I think the scheme is going to really help these guys. And they're all sort of interchangeable.

Speaker 5:
[23:53] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[23:53] That part is exciting to me. I can't wait to watch it in the spring and then in training camp, because I think it has a lot of potential.

Speaker 5:
[24:04] Yeah. And I think I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago that the Packers last year had the most players in the league with like 40 or more catches. They had like eight different players. So the ball is going to get spread around more than it has been. And I think when you don't have AJ, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it makes you a little more unpredictable, it makes you a little more dangerous, and Devontae is still going to get the most targets. But you have some other guys who can catch the football. And I wouldn't be surprised if, I mean, I don't know if all those guys are going to be a factor. I don't know if Elijah Moore, like if Wicks and Hollywood and Lemon are all what the Eagles think they are. I'm not sure there's going to be a lot of run left for Elijah Moore, but we'll see how it all shakes out in camp. But I wouldn't be surprised if they have four wide receivers with, let's say, at least 400 yards next year, which they haven't had here. But that's the Shawn Manion offense.

Speaker 4:
[25:01] Yeah, at least in theory it is. And I think Lemon is going to be able to step in right away and contribute.

Speaker 5:
[25:08] Yeah, I do too. I mean, he's the first wide receiver they've drafted. Howie's drafted in the first, what, four rounds since Devante. So yeah.

Speaker 4:
[25:21] Yeah, that's right. And receivers are a position where he admitted that they wanted to add to the stable. And obviously a lot of it has to do with their losing their wide receiver one this off season. But even aside from that, I think it's fair to say that they've been playing with higher a little bit in terms of like, hey, after those guys the last few years, they haven't had much.

Speaker 5:
[25:41] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[25:42] And it probably is wise to stockpile a little bit more.

Speaker 5:
[25:46] Yeah. Basketball team of wide receivers. And I know there'll be people out there who say the reason the other receivers haven't had big productions is because Jaylen doesn't look at him. He only looks, you know, his reads, his progression only goes through AJ and Devante. And we'll see, because that's, I don't think that's going to be the cases here.

Speaker 4:
[26:05] I wanted to bring this up. I'm sure a lot of listeners have seen it or I'm sure have at least heard about it. Makai Lemon had this like really weird interview on the podium at the combine. You remember seeing that?

Speaker 5:
[26:17] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[26:18] It's just like bizarre, like weird making weird faces, like licking his lips and everything. I saw an interview he did right before the draft. I was able to pull it up with Nick Farabaugh, might be saying his name wrong, covers the Steelers for PennLive. He asked him about it. I saw this a couple of days ago and I thought it was really cool interview because Lemon said it was a learning experience. He learned how to be more professional from that. He owned it, which I thought was cool because it was weird. It wasn't a reason to not draft the kid. It wasn't a reason to have a red flag. But I remember seeing that from the combine and going, what the heck is wrong with this kid? But it turns out that's not really his personality. I don't know what he was doing there, but he owned it and he said it just taught him that he needs to be a little more professional, which I thought was a cool owning up moment to it.

Speaker 5:
[27:11] I think the thing about the combine, and we've both been to enough combines. For a lot of these kids, it's their first time with that much media. A lot of these kids are really sheltered at their college. They might talk to the media like two or three times all year, and for a lot of these colleges, only a handful of it might be two, three, four, five guys that cover the team, unless it's like a Georgia or a Michigan or a Penn State or Alabama. So for a lot of these kids, the combine is the first time facing this big media throng, and you know how it is at the combine. You could have 50 people at a podium interviewing a guy. So I think it is a new experience for a lot of guys.

Speaker 4:
[27:52] Yeah, maybe he was trying to be intimidated. I don't know what he was doing, but it was weird. But it seems like they got to know him better. I wonder if that was part of the reason they wanted the top 30. Let's bring him in and see what the heck this kid's all about. They did talk to him at the combine, but they brought him into the building for 30 visit. It apparently went really well. Look, it is a little goofy when we talk about Nick Sirianni playing basketball with these guys, but they want people who are competitive, and it seems like he took it seriously. He did say he let Nick win, which I don't buy.

Speaker 5:
[28:27] No, me either. He also said he wanted a rematch. We did talk to Makai, like you alluded to. I mean, he was totally normal.

Speaker 4:
[28:36] Yeah, it was nothing like that, if you're wondering. If the only experience you've had with him is seeing him at that combine interview. He was completely different when we talked to him briefly on Thursday night. We're going to talk to him on Friday in person. He's coming to Philly, we think, for his introductory press conference. So looking forward to meeting him in person because, yeah, it doesn't seem like there were any real character concerns at USC.

Speaker 5:
[29:03] Yeah. And I would even call, yeah, that wasn't a character thing. It was just silly behavior.

Speaker 4:
[29:07] Yeah. No, like, personality.

Speaker 5:
[29:09] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[29:09] Weird personality dynamics.

Speaker 5:
[29:11] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[29:12] You want to go through real quick just the first round, any big surprises to you. I have it up here. Fernando Mendoza, no one saw that coming at number one. No, obviously, not a ton of surprises early. KC went up to get a cornerback.

Speaker 5:
[29:30] That was a little surprising how high he went, the LSU kid. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[29:36] Best corner in the draft, though. Corners sometimes go early. Obviously, a lot of Ohio State, a lot of Ohio State coming to the division. You have Arville Reese going to the Giants. You have Sonny Stiles going to the commanders. Then you have Caleb Downs going to the Cowboys.

Speaker 5:
[29:55] Yeah. So Matt Patricia's imprint is going to be on the division. Out of those guys, who do you like the best?

Speaker 4:
[30:05] Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5:
[30:06] I think Downs is going to be really good for Dallas.

Speaker 4:
[30:09] Yeah. He's going into that Christian Parker defense. He's going to be an excellent pick. Sonny Stiles is, I mean, he's a stud.

Speaker 5:
[30:17] He goes to Washington.

Speaker 4:
[30:18] Yeah. Gosh, he's a good player.

Speaker 5:
[30:19] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[30:21] Orville Reese, I'm curious. I haven't seen any of the coverage from New York. I don't know how they're going to use him. I don't think they expected to be able to draft him at five. They have a ton of edge rushers. They do. If they plan on using on the edge, maybe they're going to play him at an offball linebacker, which is probably where he's better right now. But it's weird. They have all these edge rushers. They traded Dexter Lawrence. You got to stop the run to rush the passer. And apparently they put out word to Adam Schefter immediately that they're not trading Kevan Thibodeau. But that was my first thought was, oh, is Thibodeau available now?

Speaker 5:
[31:02] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[31:03] And he might be. We'll see.

Speaker 5:
[31:07] Yeah. And what's the biggest surprise to you in the top 10?

Speaker 4:
[31:11] In the top 10? I don't know if there was a huge surprise in the top 10. You know, it wasn't a surprise. But the Cardinals drafting Jeremiah Lowe, I get that he's a great player. They just have, like they have structural problems with that roster. This is that classic meme of like the sports car next to the shack. And he's going to get paid so much. Like he, all of a sudden, he's like one of the top, if not like, he's going to get paid so much. It's just, I love the player. And maybe this is a year where you don't care about positions as much because it is kind of a, it's a weaker class overall. But man, I...

Speaker 5:
[31:56] When you look at that franchise, the last thing you say is they really got to go out and get a top running back.

Speaker 4:
[32:00] Yeah, it's weird because like I love the player. He's awesome. He might be the best player in this draft.

Speaker 5:
[32:06] Could be.

Speaker 4:
[32:07] But like, man, they have so many problems with that roster. To use that third pick on a running back is just a tough sell for me.

Speaker 5:
[32:15] Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 4:
[32:17] Yeah. I guess the biggest surprise of the first round was Ty Simpson going 13. What do you make of that? Like, they probably didn't need to stay at 13 to draft him.

Speaker 5:
[32:28] No.

Speaker 4:
[32:28] I don't know if teams were willing to trade up to that spot, but I guess if you're going to get a quarterback, you don't want to be too cute about it. Do you think that was what they were thinking?

Speaker 5:
[32:37] It could be. You don't want to risk losing them. Yeah, that was a little surprise.

Speaker 4:
[32:45] Vanga Yawane going to the Ravens is like the most Ravens pick of all time.

Speaker 5:
[32:50] At 14.

Speaker 4:
[32:51] Right. I mean, that's the least shocking pick of this draft so far.

Speaker 5:
[32:56] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:58] Other than Mendoza.

Speaker 5:
[33:01] Blake Miller going to the Lions, can we explain why that's good for Lane Johnson?

Speaker 4:
[33:06] Sure. Blake Miller only really played right tackle at Clemson. That signals that they're going to move Penesul to left tackle. Penesul has been the all-pro for the last few seasons, what, two or three?

Speaker 5:
[33:22] Yeah, well, I think Lane got it three years ago, I believe.

Speaker 4:
[33:26] Okay, so last two has been Penesul. So if Lane's able to stay healthy and play at the level we know he's capable of playing, he has a chance to get an all-pro, which at this stage of his career does matter.

Speaker 5:
[33:37] It does for Hall of Fame and that kind of thing. And yeah, so I am an all-pro voter, as you guys probably know. You vote for right tackle and left tackle, so that's why it matters, because Penesul is getting those right tackle votes.

Speaker 4:
[33:51] Reuben Bain slipping down to 15. He was someone you and I were talking to, and we were like, hey, if he keeps sliding here, the Eagles might be interested in him.

Speaker 5:
[34:01] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[34:02] I guess in hindsight, it's not surprising that he's slid, because he's kind of a unique prospect with the measurables being wonky.

Speaker 5:
[34:09] 6'2.

Speaker 4:
[34:10] 6'2, I mean, T-Rex arms, but gosh, that guy can play.

Speaker 5:
[34:16] T-Rex arms. He has short arms. What are they, 30 and a half or something?

Speaker 4:
[34:21] Yeah. I mean, they're really short, like one first percentile short. But I mean, his bend is next level, super productive. Sometimes it's like, the build is so weird. 6'2, 263, sub 31 inch arms. Like it's just.

Speaker 5:
[34:42] He goes to Tampa.

Speaker 4:
[34:43] It's weird, but it works, man. He's so good. Curious to see how that translates.

Speaker 5:
[34:52] Yeah. Not who I would have picked there.

Speaker 4:
[34:55] No?

Speaker 5:
[34:56] No. Too many questions about him.

Speaker 4:
[34:59] Really?

Speaker 5:
[34:59] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[35:00] Oh, I think at 15, that's good value. Okay. Caleb Banks, a little surprise at 18.

Speaker 5:
[35:09] Vikings.

Speaker 4:
[35:09] Yeah. This is fun. We have to look at the picks after the Eagles, because once the Eagles pick, we're locked in on that. So you had Maxie Honitore at 21, Akeem Mesadour at 22.

Speaker 5:
[35:20] Edge from Miami.

Speaker 4:
[35:21] His teammate, Reuben Bain. Malachi Lawrence from UCF makes it into the first round, goes at 23 at the Eagles spot. Then Casey Concepcion, Dylan Thienemann, Keelan Rutledge sneaks into the first round. Chris Johnson from San Diego State. Wow.

Speaker 5:
[35:39] Cornerback.

Speaker 4:
[35:40] Yeah. Caleb Lomu goes to the Patriots. Peter Woods to the Chiefs. Jets got back in the round for Omar Cooper. Keldrick Falk sneaks into the first round, and then Judarian Price from Notre Dame. Wow.

Speaker 5:
[35:57] Another running back.

Speaker 4:
[35:58] Yeah. There's your first round.

Speaker 5:
[36:01] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[36:03] What's the biggest surprise to you?

Speaker 5:
[36:06] For me, I think it's the Chiefs going to six and taking Delane.

Speaker 4:
[36:11] Really?

Speaker 5:
[36:13] I feel like they need weapons for Patrick Mahomes. I guess they need corners too, but that was a little high for him. If you're going to trade up, where were they at? Where do they move up from? I don't have it here in front of me, but it wasn't a big move up, but yeah, it surprised me a little.

Speaker 4:
[36:40] Okay. That was the first round. Let's take a break. When we come back, I want to go through positions and some options for day two.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 4:
[37:14] We are back on Eagle Eye Podcast brought to you by Nissan. Makai Lemon is a Philadelphia Eagle. The Eagles now no longer have picks in the fourth round. So the remaining picks are number 54 in round two, number 68 in round three, number 98 in round three. And then as of right now, they just have two picks on day three of the draft, which to me, Reub, signals that how he's going to do some maneuvering, he would hate to go into day three with just two picks.

Speaker 5:
[37:47] Yeah, I can almost guarantee that's going to change. I mean, he'll manufacture picks somehow. He just wants, and it's funny to hear him talk, he was talking about trading away the two fours, and he said, those are players, like those are guys that would have been Eagles, and we're just giving those away. And you could tell just how much it bothered him.

Speaker 4:
[38:06] Yeah, and he always talks about how day three of the draft is his favorite day, and it's like the organization's favorite day. They come in, and when they have a lot of picks, they all sit down, and he lets each of the scouts, who's your guy, who are you pounding the table for? It's a little tougher if you go into that day three with two picks. And there was some discrepancy. The Eagles did get a seventh round pick back from the Cowboys in that trade. It is a seventh round pick in 2027. Kind of a weird moment, the Eagles announced it as a 2027 pick. The Cowboys, when they announced the trade, announced it as a 2026, but Howard Roesman said it is next year's.

Speaker 5:
[38:44] I asked him about it and he said it is next year. And then he, in just perfect Howie form, said, I really wanted that pick this year. It almost made me not want to do the deal. He was kidding, but that's how he sensed humor at 1130 at night.

Speaker 4:
[38:59] Yeah, fair enough. All right, so Eagles still have three picks left in the top 100. Now, if they make those three picks as yet to be seen, a lot of needs left over. How would you kind of stack the needs that they have, maybe like not even looking at the potential of who's there?

Speaker 5:
[39:19] Yeah, I mean, if you phrase it that way, it would be O'Tackel, but I just don't know if they're gonna land Lane's replacement in the second round of this draft. I just don't think he's there. But that would be the biggest need, I think, and I'd go edge second.

Speaker 4:
[39:32] Where's safety? Safety after that?

Speaker 5:
[39:34] Right next.

Speaker 4:
[39:34] How about tight end?

Speaker 5:
[39:37] Tight end's there, too.

Speaker 4:
[39:38] Yeah, so like we just brought up four pretty big needs and we didn't mention offensive guard. There's a lot of needs for this team right now. Maybe they're not super duper pressing for 2026, but yeah, like long term pressing needs.

Speaker 5:
[39:53] Yeah, absolutely. And he's not gonna be able to fill all those.

Speaker 4:
[40:00] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[40:00] There's just not enough picks. So we'll see what he can come up with and what's going on. He might, there's gonna be more trades. We know it. It's how he's gonna be more trades in the next couple of days.

Speaker 4:
[40:11] I was fascinated by what he told you about all the moves that he's made to trade up and get players. It kind of reminded me of his answer to you at the pre-draft press conference when you asked him about some of the misses he's had. He said the misses stick with him. He thinks about them every day. To me, this answer was very similar. What did he tell you about trading up?

Speaker 5:
[40:34] Just how you never want to regret not doing it. He said you always want to be aggressive. You'd hate to lose out on a guy because you just didn't want to give up the picks to move up. He said that's when he said, I really value those two fours. I didn't want to give them up, but to get a player that you really like, sometimes you just, there might not be 23 players you love, but there might be 20 or 15, and the 15th drops to 20. It's a tricky thing because, and he's done it now, I think six of the last eight years, he's moved up in the first round. So it's his wheelhouse, that's what he loves doing. And he just talked about, you have to be really comfortable with what you're giving up and really like the player. And they've been right on most of these guys. But he just said, the last thing you want is to not make that move and regret it. And to not make that move because you want the picks, you want to keep these picks and then regret losing the player. And he said, we've all done it. He says, every GM has done it where he kind of like, we could have had this guy, we just didn't pull the trigger on the move.

Speaker 4:
[41:41] Yeah. All right. So you want to go through some of the names I have on my list here. And this is a list that I have to play around with a little bit. I was so ready to have a lot of receivers on this list. And then they dropped the one in the first round. So some options for day two. I have a bunch of edge rushers on this list. I have seven.

Speaker 5:
[42:02] Cassius Howell.

Speaker 4:
[42:03] Cassius Howell is one of them. R.

Speaker 5:
[42:04] Mason, my guy.

Speaker 2:
[42:05] R.

Speaker 4:
[42:05] Mason, Thomas, Romelo Haight, Gabe Ackes, Derrick Moore, Zion Young, Danai Dennis Sutton. Some really attractive names going in the round two still available.

Speaker 5:
[42:21] Yeah. And I think that's most likely considering what's out there and what their needs are. And yeah, they've got to add to that position group. I mean, they have to.

Speaker 4:
[42:31] And with so many of those guys, one of those guys will be there at 54. And that's not the way Howie drafts. We know that. But I think that's a pretty fair assessment. Now, maybe Derrick Moore is more of a third round pick. But those other guys, I think, will probably go in the second round. If you had to pick one of them, who would you kind of tab?

Speaker 5:
[42:54] Probably Cassius Howell.

Speaker 4:
[42:55] OK. He's someone people thought maybe could sneak into the first round. So I don't know if he'll be there at 54. But you never know. I mean, it would be tough for the Eagles to move up.

Speaker 5:
[43:07] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[43:07] They already moved up in the first round.

Speaker 5:
[43:09] They just don't have a whole lot to...

Speaker 4:
[43:10] They don't have a lot of ammo right now.

Speaker 5:
[43:11] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[43:12] So they might just have to wait until 54 to draft the player. And they might want to trade down to recoup some value on day three.

Speaker 5:
[43:22] It's possible.

Speaker 4:
[43:23] I really like to deny Dennis Sutton from Penn State. I had him in my last Eagles only mock draft at 54. I think the value lines up. I think he's built the right way to be a nice complement in that Ed Rusher room. And look, Ed Rusher is still a position we talked about. They could add in a trade that Jonathan Grenard trade is still hovering around. And that could still happen.

Speaker 5:
[43:49] What do you think of TJ Parker? There's some varying thoughts on TJ Parker.

Speaker 4:
[43:53] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[43:54] Edge from Clemson.

Speaker 4:
[43:55] Interesting player. He didn't go, right?

Speaker 5:
[43:57] He did not go.

Speaker 4:
[43:58] He didn't go in the first round. I would think he's going to be a relatively early day two pick. Yeah, I could have put him on here. There's a lot though. There's a lot of a lot of Ed Rusher still available.

Speaker 5:
[44:13] I mean, he has a chance to get a pretty good player that's going to help him and be part of a rotation.

Speaker 4:
[44:19] Yeah, there are a bunch of safeties. You brought up safety being a position of need. Emanuel McNeil Warren, I almost said McWarren, McNeil Warren from Toledo did not get drafted in the first round. That was sort of the talk that he was going to slip out of the first round, which we talk about guys rising and falling. I don't know if that's really accurate.

Speaker 5:
[44:40] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[44:41] But he is still available.

Speaker 5:
[44:44] LSU kids out there.

Speaker 4:
[44:45] Yeah. AJ Halsey is available. Jalen Kilgore from South Carolina. Trayden Stukes who got a lot of like buzz. Is he going to go in the first round? He did not. He's available. Bud Clark from TCU. So if the Eagles want to safety on day two, I think they're going to have some options.

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Speaker 5:
[46:18] Yeah, they've had good luck drafting D-backs out of Toledo. So. D-back out of Toledo.

Speaker 7:
[46:25] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[46:27] I left one receiver on my list.

Speaker 5:
[46:29] Really?

Speaker 4:
[46:30] Chris Bell from Louisville. Just because I think there's a, I don't think that they would take him in the second round, but what if like teams are really not drafting this kid and you're going, wait a second, the value is too much to pass up. That's the only way I could see them doubling down on receiver, as if the value is just slapping them in the face with a player like Chris Bell, who might have been a first-round pick, heading out toward his ACO, and maybe he's available in the third round.

Speaker 5:
[46:57] That's where, yeah, I mean, you would take him in the third round?

Speaker 4:
[47:02] Yeah. Oh yeah. You wouldn't?

Speaker 5:
[47:07] It's just a lot of other things he needs to draft.

Speaker 4:
[47:09] I know, but value. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[47:13] I mean, if the medicals check out, I guess I would consider it, but man.

Speaker 4:
[47:19] I get it.

Speaker 5:
[47:21] If it's instead of an edge or a tackle or safety.

Speaker 4:
[47:25] Who's not nearly as good?

Speaker 5:
[47:27] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[47:28] Yeah. That's the only reason I left him on the list. I don't think they're going to go after whoever else.

Speaker 5:
[47:36] That's where you wouldn't mind having one of those fours. Because if he slides down there, then you pounce.

Speaker 4:
[47:44] Some offensive linemen still on the board, Chase Basantes from Texas A&M. First round buzz didn't go. Jennings Dunker from Iowa played tackle in college, most likely a guard in the NFL. Caleb Tiernan from Northwestern. I mean, it drops off, like we mentioned, from the first round to the second and third rounds, but he might be the next tackle off the board. Then some big-

Speaker 5:
[48:06] Six, eight, three, 25.

Speaker 4:
[48:08] Yeah, but there are some big guys, like Markelle Bell from Miami, Travis Burke from Memphis, both six, nine. So maybe third round options for the Eagles at tackle. And then a bunch of tight ends. And tight end is a position, as much as I liked Kenyon Sadiq, tight end and receiver to me were positions where we talked about, like, the difference between round one and round two isn't as great as, like, tackle from round one to round two. And there were a lot of good tight ends still available.

Speaker 5:
[48:43] Who's the best of the bunch?

Speaker 4:
[48:46] Depends on what flavor you like, honestly. There's, like, different types. You have Oscar Delp from Georgia, Justin Jolie from NC State.

Speaker 5:
[49:00] What about the Vanderbilt kid?

Speaker 4:
[49:01] Claire Stowers. Stowers? I always get this wrong. Stowers?

Speaker 5:
[49:05] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[49:06] Yeah, kind of a receiver tight end. Not going to play in line much, but heck of an athlete on that Vanderbilt team, catching passes from Diego Pavia last year. I mean, depending on what you want. Then there's the kid from Stanford who's, like, purely an inline tight end. He's 267 pounds. Like, there are a lot of different flavors at tight end.

Speaker 5:
[49:30] Stowers is more like 235.

Speaker 4:
[49:32] Yeah, he's mostly at 239. The other kid from Stanford is 267. And Max Clair is someone I really like in that third round range as well. So tight end is a position where, yeah, I think they could definitely add.

Speaker 5:
[49:50] Not enough picks to address everything.

Speaker 4:
[49:52] Yeah, certainly not. What's your gut tell you for day two?

Speaker 5:
[49:58] I think edge. I think there'll be a safety in there somewhere.

Speaker 4:
[50:03] So they have three picks. If you just had to pick three positions.

Speaker 5:
[50:08] I just don't know if there's going to be a tackle there that makes sense. So I would say edge, safety, and de-tackle.

Speaker 4:
[50:20] De-tackle?

Speaker 5:
[50:21] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[50:21] Okay. Interesting. No tight end.

Speaker 5:
[50:27] I'm going to go de-tackle.

Speaker 4:
[50:28] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[50:28] I think there's a bunch of them.

Speaker 4:
[50:30] I would say edge, tight end, and I'm going to go offensive line.

Speaker 5:
[50:40] Just general O-line.

Speaker 4:
[50:41] General O-line. Highest rated guard or tackle. So that leaves off safety. I think there are clearly four positions right now that we're talking about as needs, and if they only make three picks, they're not going to address all four of those.

Speaker 5:
[50:56] Yeah. I'm going to go on a limb and say, Howie's going to find himself a fourth round pick somehow.

Speaker 4:
[51:02] Yeah. I mean, I would be shocked if they only made two picks on day three.

Speaker 5:
[51:05] Yeah. Same.

Speaker 4:
[51:05] Knowing what we know about him, how much he loves that day, which, look, really the only way to do that is to trade down or to trade a player.

Speaker 5:
[51:13] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[51:14] I don't know if they have a player who's tradeable. Well, they have one, but they're going to wait to trade him until after June 1st.

Speaker 5:
[51:23] Yeah. Yeah, it's not easy, but I think he would have to trade down somehow and see what he can get. Be interesting. Always is.

Speaker 4:
[51:34] Fun day one though.

Speaker 5:
[51:35] Howie's just such a fun GM to cover. Yeah, I agree. Just because you never know what's going to happen. I really enjoy talking to him because he explains things so clearly. Why did he do this? Why were they thinking that? Yeah, fun day.

Speaker 4:
[51:51] Yeah. I love the draft.

Speaker 5:
[51:55] I do too.

Speaker 4:
[51:56] Okay.

Speaker 5:
[51:57] It's just the month before it that sometimes drives me crazy.

Speaker 4:
[52:01] I love that pre-draft process, but there is a point where I'm like, all right, like let's just get to it.

Speaker 5:
[52:07] I think I texted you at one point and I was like, Dave, I don't know how much more I can write about Peter Woods in my lifetime.

Speaker 4:
[52:14] Yeah, it is funny. You spent all this time learning about these prospects and most of them are going to become Eagles.

Speaker 5:
[52:19] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[52:20] It's honestly the same is true for the team. They spend so much time. Sure. That knowledge gets used down the line a lot of times, but I don't think they went into tonight thinking they were going to draft Makai Lemon.

Speaker 5:
[52:34] No way.

Speaker 4:
[52:34] They spent all this time on Caleb Proctor or Caden Proctor.

Speaker 5:
[52:41] There's a lot of Caleb's in his draft.

Speaker 4:
[52:42] Well, there is a Caleb Proctor, but they spent all this time on Caden Proctor and he goes 12. He's completely out of their range and you go, oh, we wasted all of our time.

Speaker 5:
[52:52] Haven't even sat down yet and he's gone.

Speaker 4:
[52:53] Yeah. There's a great clip.

Speaker 5:
[52:55] I was surprised he went so high. That was another surprise. I just think he's got, I don't want to say bust potential, but.

Speaker 4:
[53:02] No, I agree that he does. I wasn't surprised that he ended up going high though. Mike Mulhern, our board subtle producer, brought up a good point about JC. Latham from a few years ago, like a very almost identical profile to Latham who went super high. So if you follow that, it does make sense that Proctor.

Speaker 5:
[53:21] A lot of reasons to really like him.

Speaker 4:
[53:23] Yeah. Look, he wasn't my favorite player in this draft. I know people really high on him. I was a little hesitant to even have a modest trade-off form. So I certainly wouldn't have gone up to 12 form. Yeah. All right. Having fun here at the draft. No questions today, but send your questions in eagleye nbcuni.com. Eventually, once we get through the draft, we will address all of those. So we'll have some fun next week with some mailbag questions. If you enjoy the Eagle Eye Podcast, please do us a favor, rate and subscribe wherever you get your pod. If you're watching on YouTube, click the like button, subscribe there as well. Reuben, any final thoughts?

Speaker 5:
[54:06] Go Sixers tomorrow.

Speaker 4:
[54:07] Okay. Tonight.

Speaker 5:
[54:10] Tonight. It is tonight.

Speaker 4:
[54:12] We have spoken into Friday. All right. For Reuben Frank, I'm Dave Zangaro. This has been Eagle Eye presented by Nissan. We'll talk to you pretty soon.

Speaker 6:
[54:32] Why have we asked our contractor we found on angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.

Speaker 5:
[54:41] We only met a month ago.

Speaker 6:
[54:42] Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at angie.com.