transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:30] Hello, and welcome back to Talkin Giants presented by the Fanatics Sportsbook. What a way for the New York Giants to really kick off the John Harbaugh era with drafting Arvell Reese, linebacker, super ultra versatile linebacker from Ohio State and drafting Francis Mauigoa, offensive lineman from the University of Miami. Two players, Shaun, that were ranked on their own personal board in the top five on the consensus board. They were ranked second and seventh. They drafted two players that are both not even 21 years old yet. And they have experience on the biggest stages. There are questions on both of these picks, Shaun. But this is why John Harbaugh is here. To have a plan for these guys, to help answer these questions, to help smooth these transitions over to the NFL. Shaun, I think the New York Football Giants hit a home run on night one of the NFL draft. How are you?

Speaker 3:
[01:38] Justin, I feel great. I agree it's a home run. It's the most shocking home run because, I mean, how many mock drafts did we do with kind of the assumption that Arvell Reese was going to be off the board? By the way, shout out Peter Schrager, who built this team. By the way, Peter Schrager's first mock, he had Francis Mauigoa as well. He was the first to link him to the Giants. Look, Justin, overall as a whole, I knew deep down, even if we didn't say it, we said it. We talked about Caleb Downs, which we'll get to. We talked about Sonny Stiles. We both agreed the Giants needed an impact defensive stud on this team to help this football team. We just got the wrong impact defensive stud that would be there at five. And that was Arvell Reese. We'll talk about where he's going to play and what not. And then something we screamed about. Part of the reason we didn't think Jeremiah Love was going to be the right pick for the Giants was the O-line really wasn't in position to take a running back despite what people said. We screamed about, oh my God, is Daniel Fellale going to play guard for this team? Do they have to bring back Greg Van Roten? They answered that. They got the best, arguably the best tackle in the draft that will, he just wants to play a position on the O-line. He will play guard. And guess what? In a couple of years, this Jermaine Illuminore gets older. If you want to ship them back out to the outside, he's got that David Diehl versatility. So the Giants got the best alignment in the draft. And some might say the best freak athlete player in the draft. So Justin, how are you not pumped up right now?

Speaker 2:
[02:55] Yeah, I really am pumped up, man. And again, like this is why John Harbaugh is here. Arvell Reese has questions on what his fit is going to be. And I love that they came out and said right away, and if you haven't seen it, they were asked, Harbaugh and Shane were asked, where do you kind of see him playing? Where do you see him kind of aligning up in the NFL? Because Isaiah Simmons is like the one big example of he didn't play a position in college and then he tried to play a position in the NFL, and it didn't really work out, right? They said he's going to play weak side Will Linebacker. And for the most part, and I love that fit for Arvell Reese. We'll talk about why, but this is why John Harbaugh is here. How many times in Baltimore as the years have gone on, they've taken these players that are a little rough around the edges, that are a little raw, but they're super talented. And then because of coaching, that knows how to evolve around its players, structure the team, not just around the scheme and what the coaches want, but what fits the players' strengths. And then even the same thing with Maui Noah, a tackle that is looking to make the transition to guard. I think that conversation is not as complex as Arvell Reese and what his role is. But inevitably even for the Will linebacker, right? It's not like, all right, you're going to be a Mike linebacker, you're going to be a middle linebacker, that's all you're going to do. I think a Will, you can line up as an edge on early downs and this two-point stance and do what Leo Chanel has done for the Kansas City Chiefs. I mean, how many times have you even seen Mike and McFadden do that and line up as an edge rusher, kind of go here and there? The Will position in the NFL is inevitably a very versatile spot. So I think night one is a home run for the Giants. These two players under a different coaching regime, under a different coaching staff where I've questions on how they can coach players up and how they can get players to a spot where they're contributing. I have questions and I'm not feeling that good. But this is why you get John Harbaugh in the building, Shaun.

Speaker 3:
[05:07] Correct.

Speaker 2:
[05:08] This is why.

Speaker 3:
[05:09] John Harbaugh knows a thing or two about coaching linebackers, especially those with some first ability as well. So like Justin, I think part of the reason when I saw, let's just talk about Arvell Reese here in this moment. When I saw Schrager had tweeted this out, and in that spot, all I kept thinking of was, well, if Arvell Reese is there, you trade out. Because in my mind, the way the whole draft process went, Arvell Reese was going to be drafted as a pass rusher. I almost got the sense that that's what Arvell Reese wanted to do. I never once considered that, you know what I mean? He could go back to the inside, that that would be a more natural fit, and a team would select him like the Giants to do that. I just love the idea that right here on Draft Night, all questions about what position he's going to play, because the last thing he wants is that Isaiah Simmons thing like you brought up, are completely answered, and this coaching staff from day one is going to coach him is that now, allow him to focus on that as a rookie. He's still a really young player, like you alluded to. And as his game and as his pool package, and also he may not be done growing as well, continues to develop, if this is something where in a couple of years, the Giants feel like his best strength on a football field is still rushing the passer, in two or three years, the Giants can transition their defense that way, if they're done with Brian Burns, let's say, at that point in time. So I think that's going to be the name of the game with both of the guys they took, which was versatility. But I love kind of squashing the versatility just from a standard position early on. He's going to sit there with Tremaine Edmunds on the inside, then Ard Wilson is going to have a lot of fun. And there is going to be unique sets where he's going to get after the quarterback. And then as you keep a quarterback guessing, I mean, look, this is no different when the Giants tried the movie, Mathias Kiwanoukou, who was less natural, the inside linebacker position. Remember, the Giants did that. Yeah. Get as many great players and pass rushers on the field in any way. That's actually old school Giants football for all our young listeners. Like the stuff our dads used to tell us about. The Giants are kind of establishing that in front of us. So that's why I'm really pumped up here with Arvell Reese.

Speaker 2:
[06:54] Yeah, I agree. So let's let's talk about him first. But before that, I do want to invite because we do this a couple times a year. I try not to do the whole YouTube thing all that often. But right now, I think we got like over 800 people watching in the YouTube chat right now. Oh, you freaks at 1130 on a Thursday night. Appreciate you guys. Why don't you subscribe to this channel, please hit the like button. Draft month and draft season has been a ton of fun for me. I'm in a much different spot mentally this time of year. I love what the Giants did. I'm loving this podcast and this show with Shaun Morash. I think we're bringing a lot of good information. Like the damn stream, like the video, five stars on Apple, five stars on Spotify, wherever you're listening. I appreciate every single one of you for hanging out with us and spending your time with us. I truly appreciate the commitment you made to spend time with us. Bam! Arvell Reese. He is 6'4, 241 pounds. He turns 21 in August. 21. Both of these guys that they drafted tonight aren't even 21 years. They're going to be 21 by the time the season starts. Interior linebacker slash edgerusher slash versatile chest piece. He was number two on the Consensus Board, a national champion in 2024. In 2024, he had three and a half tackles for loss and just a half a sack. But in 2025, made a little bit more of a positional transition, if you were to say. In 2025, he had 69 combined tackles, six. Ten tackles for loss, six and a half sacks, no interceptions. But he had two passes defense this year as well. Shaun, a little bit more on him as a player. I'm going to kind of read off my thoughts here. And if you want to cut me and interrupt me, feel free to do it because I have a good amount of thoughts here. Let's start off with the positive stuff. Dude, he plays with his hair on fire. Yes, he is an insane tackler and insane hit power as well. Almost 34-inch arms, which is good arms and that's good. It's a good athletic profile for even an interior linebacker. He uses them and he gets extension, especially in the run game. He's going to bench press guys, stack and shed at a pretty damn good level. I mean, such elite hand pop. Like he will lift 300-pound offensive linemen right out of their shoes. Like there were a couple of reps against Texas. They had like a sophomore right tackle, but he was like 310 pounds. And he's just like lifting these dudes. And this like this, he's not a 240 pounds is not big for an edge rusher, like a defensive end, like where he's lining up a lot of the time. But he is still like, boom, he's freaking punching these guys and he's getting them off balance. It's crazy. Good luck putting a tight end. I mean, if there is any team, we'll see in the NFL, but any team in college that wanted to put a tight end or like a running back on Lyman, like pass pro, let's just say he was like the last line of defense, like the guy that was like untouched and the running back got to pick him up. I mean, just good luck. Like that's not a smork decision. If there's like, oh, this guy's lighter. We want to put a tight end on. Good luck. He's going to f that tight end up and even takes on pulling Lyman and brings the pop there. He is not afraid of contact. He is not afraid of 300 pound offensive Lyman pulling across the line. He's still going to bring the pop to them. We'll see how that transitions over to the NFL. Explosive player, I think he already has good instincts. It helps him play faster. Now, there's some areas where I think his instincts need to improve. I think his straight line speed and where he's just going side to side, like side line to side line speed, let's just say if there's a swing pass going out of the backfield, that side line to side line speed is very much present, but I think his overall lateral movement, if we're talking at him as an interior linebacker now, which when I first did my write up, it was mostly thinking of him as an edge, since that's what a lot of people were thinking of him as. I think his overall lateral movement and side to side little movements, I think that's something that's going to have to improve. But I think that can improve when you get more instinctual as a player, because those are the things that help you play faster. Right? Your instincts, your IQ, your overall awareness. And the fact that he's barely been positioned, he's barely been positioned in any one position, they've bounced him all around from Edge Rusher to DN, to the conventional linebacker, to... he's bounced all around at Ohio State. So I think the more that they lock him in one spot, Shaun, he's going to be 21 years old by the time the season starts, that's something that I'm hoping that he needs to improve on. And I hope that he'll improve that with time, right?

Speaker 3:
[11:42] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[11:43] Go ahead. Give me some thoughts and then I'm going to keep going.

Speaker 3:
[11:45] No, okay. So Justin, like full disclosure, again, we have done and you're reading off all his strengths, you're doing God's work right now. We've done so much homework and it does feel like we're slightly, at least partially beyond the eight ball. Here's my biggest worry with Arvell Reese, when you talk about that instinctual thing. And part of the reason we love the idea of Sonny Stiles being the Giants inside linebacker, I'm a little worried that when he plays with his head on fire, he's a pass rusher, first player, the Giants still need to stop the run. And that, to me, is my biggest question mark when penciling him in now as an inside linebacker. While it is great to picture him as the freak of nature that could add to the pass rush and have those mixed looks, the Giants still the biggest issue. And we'll get to what they're going to do in round two as well. It remains they just traded Dexter Lawrence. And besides that, they still needed to add to the fact that this team needed to stop the run. Sonny Stiles would have excited me from that. I got to be honest with you. I feel like I'm flying blind on whether that is going to be an issue here for Arvell Reese next to Tremaine Edmunds in terms of, hey man, if those guys are both freak athletes stopping the run, that helps get to that second level and push it to the front level. I mean, I'm good with that with the run defense, but that's a worry for me, Justin, right now.

Speaker 2:
[12:51] And I think it's a fair worry. But here's what I hope that they tell Arvell Reese to do from day one. And the fact that they came out and said, you're going to be the will, you're going to be the weak side backer. I want Tremaine Edmunds right now. You're going to wear the green dot. You're going to be the Mike Linebacker. You're going to be probably on the field for 100% of the snaps. You're going to be the captain and leader of the defense, right? That's the expectation for Tremaine Edmunds. I want Tremaine Edmunds to be the one that processes and the one that thinks and like the leader of that defense, right? I want Arvell Reese to play fast, to play loose and to play free. And I want him to be an attacking player. Where the expectation for Arvell Reese is hit this gap and go and F someone up, man. And I'm trying not to like, I want to curse Solbeck because I'm fired up. I'm fired up about...

Speaker 3:
[13:49] It's 1130. The kids are up.

Speaker 2:
[13:51] I know it's after dark. I mean, I'm fired up about players that hit hard and play fast, right? That compete. And I think Arvell Reese can do that. And if they don't put too much on his plate, and how Arvell Reese can be an advantage as a stack linebacker from day one, is if they tell him, hey, man, everybody's got, like, everybody's going to have their responsibilities. And this also requires like having good interior defensive linemen, too, that can take care of their own areas, which we don't have right now. Round pick 37. I have the expectation that they're going to go into your deal. And I think Shaun does, too. We'll talk about that later. But this is where, to use Giants examples, this is where Tate Crotter playing next to Blake Martinez was at his best. Don't think, go and attack. This is where Mike McFadden playing next to Bobby O'Carrick was at his best in 2023. Why Mike McFadden had a season where he had over 10 tackles for loss in a season. It's because they're just telling him, don't think, just go, man. Just go and play fast and attack. That is what I want Arvell Reese's rookie season to be like. Whether that as a pass rusher, and we're lining him up on the inside, we're lining him up on the eight gap, which I think he's going to do plenty of that. He's going to be a QB spy. Like whatever you do, do it fast and do it hard. Clip that, sex.

Speaker 3:
[15:13] And when you see ball carrier, just make the tackle, which we know he's a guy who can tackle, which I think he can. So over Justin, I know before we kind of position, let's just kind of see where we're at right now. Before we even think about 37, the Giants just from a linebacker room in general, think about last year when we're playing Bobby O'Carrakay and Darius Muehsal because of the Micah McFadden injury. That group now is probably the most significantly upgraded group of the off season when Micah McFadden is now your rotational third guy, which obviously inside linebackers, they all play, right? And then you have Tremaine Edmunds and Arvell Reese who are going to be in sets where they are on the field in whatever, the three-four defense with Brian Burns and Abdul Carter sitting there. That is some spray chart across the board from inside to outside. And Justin, you a couple months ago, or at least a month ago, during free agency talked about all the different alignments that the Giants could run offensive. Oh, yeah. Picture those four guys I just gave you that this defense now has. And the amount of confusion and chaos that could be caused for a quarterback if the Nord Wilson has these guys at their best.

Speaker 2:
[16:17] You want a NASCAR package on steroids? Listen to this shit.

Speaker 3:
[16:23] Think about the Giant Glory days and just understand that this on paper has the potential to be the most versatile of all of the past linebacking giant corps that they've had in edge rushing giant. Like it's that crazy of Arvell Reese hits.

Speaker 2:
[16:36] How about Brian Burns? Brian Burns on the edge, Kevan Thibodeau on the edge. Yep. And then you put Arvell Reese and Abdul Carter on top of the center. I mean, I even like the idea of this too, Shaun. Kevan Thibodeau showed a little bit like against the Saints last year. There were some really good, Kevan on the inside. Yes, man.

Speaker 3:
[17:01] So even versus Dallas Week 2, if you look, there was a couple of great Kevan inside reps.

Speaker 2:
[17:06] And Brian Burns out of nowhere too. He was the player that I least expected to be. Remember Brian Burns was lining up all over the place too. And he was having a little productive pass.

Speaker 3:
[17:17] Yeah. I should say Burns could cover a little bit, which is another thought on Reese too, because he's going to be asked to cover at some point here playing.

Speaker 2:
[17:23] And I'm a little worried about that because he just isn't very experienced in that. But again, back to this whole NASCAR thing.

Speaker 3:
[17:30] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:30] Dude, I even think Denard Wilson is going to start like stacking like these edge rushers like pretty close to each other. They're going to line up like close to each other. Then we're going to run stunts. We're going to run twists. And they're going to be so powerful and so fast. I mean, we'll see how powerful they are because they need a big boy to kind of start clogging up some more holes with all these guys that are a little bit more lighter. But man, are they going to be fast. So I'm excited for it, man. Again, we're going to spend, and this is what I'm really excited for. We're now going to spend the summer. Not only do we get to spend a thing in the formations on the offensive side of the ball, we can start doing that on the defensive side of the ball too. And how does Arvell Reese kind of fit into like third and seven? Third and seven. Who do you want out there? Who do you want on the line? I love it.

Speaker 3:
[18:17] There's only one more important Arvell Reese question needs to be answered, Justin.

Speaker 2:
[18:21] Yeah, I'm not done talking about them though, but go ahead, ask me it.

Speaker 3:
[18:23] Okay, I'll ask you it anyway. I'll break it up. Because it's something across my mind that probably only people that are diehard fans of the Giants would. Are there any single digit numbers left that Arvell Reese can get now?

Speaker 2:
[18:32] That's a great question. Why don't you look that up? Well, I talk about the Fanatics Sportsbook because of course, you know, the football season's over. I was looking up some odds on the Fanatics Sportsbook. Let's see, where did they have? Where did they have? Did they have Arvell Reese pick five in their top five? Let's see, I want to find the screenshot. They had Arvell Reese third, four, fifth. They had fifth. They had them fifth. So that wasn't too bad. I'll tell you what, I don't know if I had to make a power ranking of what was going to be the fifth overall pick. I don't know if I would put Arvell Reese five plus 950 it was before the draft. If anybody drafted that, those are some good odds brought to you by the Fanatics Sportsbook. Every time you place a bet, you're earning FanCash up to 10 percent back on your bets, win or lose and unlike points that expire, FanCash is the true currency of sport. You can use it on official team gear and collectibles on fanatics.com. Your next bet or profit boosts and even exclusive experiences across the world of Fanatics. Plus Fanatics is the home of fair play injury protection. This is one of the best parts. If your player goes down with an injury in the first half, your bet gets refunded and it's part of a parlay. If it's part of a parlay, that leg is voided and the rest of your parlay plays on. Bet earn and get more out of every game of Fanatics Sportsbook. Winning hits different here. Thank you to Fanatics Sportsbook. Must be 21 or older gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER-CONNECTICA. Call 888-789-7777. Massachusetts, call 800-327-5050. New York, call 8778-HOPE-NY. Maryland, visit mdgamblinghelp.org. Not available in all states. Terms apply. See Fanatics Sportsbook app for details. I love you. With all my heart.

Speaker 3:
[20:08] Yep. Thank you, Fanatics Sportsbook. I did lose a Knicks Moneyline bet tonight.

Speaker 2:
[20:12] That's on you.

Speaker 3:
[20:13] That's not on them. No, it's not on them. I'm thanking them anyway. They gave me great odds on a parlay between the Yankees and Knicks tonight. So, um, Javon Holland's number eight, Deontay Banks' number two. Here's going to be your spoiler alert. Do not buy an Arvell Reese jersey in his rookie year. He will take Deontay Banks' number two after he is gone after next year.

Speaker 2:
[20:32] What if Deontay Banks is not being cut?

Speaker 3:
[20:36] He's going to be on the team this year. Yeah, he's going to be on the team.

Speaker 2:
[20:39] I know.

Speaker 3:
[20:42] You know John Harbaugh, he loves guys.

Speaker 2:
[20:43] Wait, maybe Deontay Banks changes his number again.

Speaker 3:
[20:46] There's no way.

Speaker 2:
[20:47] He just gets bullied. He just gets bullied into changing it because other people more other people more significant than him, even as a former first round pick, take precedent over him. Isn't that sad? It is sad.

Speaker 3:
[20:58] He should give up number two now.

Speaker 2:
[21:00] He's like the Jeff. He's like the Jeff Fiegels.

Speaker 3:
[21:04] Jeff Fiegels, 18, 9, 11. Right. Not 11. But yes, 17. Yes. Yeah. Bad job on me with Phil Simms.

Speaker 2:
[21:11] All right. I have some more. I have some more over Reese notes. I want to get into some of the negatives to and things that I'm worried about. The comp that I made to him as an edge rusher. I do want to say this. When I watch Byron Young from Tennessee down at the Senior Bowl, which, by the way, if you look at Byron Young's college football reference page and his pro football reference page, you're going to see that he gained a little bit of weight. Byron Young from Tennessee was super, super light. But what he kind of played similarly with like hair on fire, like playing like you're heavier than you're actually listed, playing heavier than what your weight's listed. Byron Young kind of did that. Byron Young would be 240 pounds going up against these tackles, and I'm watching him down on mobile, and the main move that he's trying to work is a bowl rush. I'm like, bro, what are you doing? I kind of commend it because you're grinded down there, you're grinded, and he kind of like looks solid, but then the reps will kind of just like fizzle out a little bit. Then he's gone to LA, and he's had a very, very good NFL career so far. Very, very good. I think he's had almost double digit sacks, if not over double digit sacks, every single year of his career with the Los Angeles Rams. So I watched Arvell Reese, and it kind of reminded me as like a Byron Young on steroids. So keep that in mind when you're kind of watching him maybe as a little bit of an edge rusher, he can line up there. And I mentioned the whole Leo Chanel thing too. I think Arvell Reese can fit what Leo Chanel did towards the last couple of years in Kansas City because they had so many off ball linebackers, they would just put Leo Chanel kind of like on the edge on the first and second down. I think Arvell Reese can naturally do that as well.

Speaker 3:
[22:52] Can I throw a scenario at you that would bother me?

Speaker 2:
[22:55] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[22:56] Okay, let's just play the hypothetical world because remember the Giants are declaring this. We get a bad either Brian Burns or Abdul Carter training camp injury. Are you keeping Arvell Reese at off ball linebacker? Are you immediately putting him on the edge?

Speaker 2:
[23:11] I think I'm keeping him at off ball linebacker.

Speaker 3:
[23:13] That's the right answer. That's the right answer. My point is you declare this tonight on draft day. Don't allow injuries to change anything up. If you have a plan for this player, stick to that plan. Don't allow his... I mean, we all went there when Eric Flowers got moved to left tackle when he wasn't ready based on a Will Beatty injury. Like I don't want that for Arvell Reese.

Speaker 2:
[23:29] Yeah. I mean, that doesn't mean that he can't play more snaps at edge than you think.

Speaker 3:
[23:33] Sure. But still, let him master that position and kind of grow into his body.

Speaker 2:
[23:37] You want to know if Arvell Reese's stat that's fun?

Speaker 3:
[23:39] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[23:40] He allowed two yards after the tackle per attempt. That's the second lowest among Power 4 linebackers. Who was first?

Speaker 3:
[23:48] Sonny Stiles.

Speaker 2:
[23:49] Sonny Stiles, yes.

Speaker 3:
[23:51] Amazing.

Speaker 2:
[23:51] Amazing. Here's the negatives and things that we got to keep an eye out for. All right. Play action and misdirection can give him some trouble. I think he baits. He baits and he falls for it. So he's going to have to get better in that. He's fluent in coverage, but man, I think he doesn't have a lot of reps going up against running backs and tight ends, especially tight ends. You just don't see man coverage reps on tight ends. That's something that we're going to need a ton of experience in, and we're going to have to be kind of like brought in for. That's why a lot of third downs, we're probably going to be getting after the quarterback instead of dropping back in coverage. Only one season as a full-time starter, he has fewer than a thousand career defensive snaps. So this is overall just a pretty inexperienced player. Twenty-two of his twenty-seven pressures and all eight of his sacks came in the first eight games of the year. I have a buddy, one of our heads of social media, Jomboy Media, big Ohio State fan. I trust him with my life on his evaluations and thoughts on Ohio State players. I will say out of all three, my buddy Kevin, Jomboy Media, if you know Jomboy Media, you probably know Kevin.

Speaker 3:
[25:07] Kevin at Jomboy Media.

Speaker 2:
[25:09] He, out of the big three, Downs, Reese and Styles, he would rate Arvell Reese third. Then that's coming from an Ohio State fan that I really, really do trust. He said that he kind of did disappear a little bit down the stretch, but he acknowledged it and it is also very true that for whatever reason, as Ohio State kind of went into the playoffs, they had him like really operating a lot as a QB spy, which kind of took some of his opportunities away.

Speaker 3:
[25:44] Matt Satrusha used them as a chess piece instead of the edge rusher they needed.

Speaker 2:
[25:48] Yes, and that would be like us screaming at Shane Bowen, like why are we using a dual quarter solely as a QB spy, like we were kind of doing a little bit earlier in the year. But again, just lack of inconsistence and recognition of some coverage assignments, late to ID some routes. This is a player that does not have a lot of experience being a conventional stand up linebacker. He is, odds are, he's moving forward and he's going after the run or he's going after the quarterback. He's rarely moving backwards in coverage, right?

Speaker 3:
[26:21] Yeah, you didn't draft him to move backwards, that's for sure.

Speaker 2:
[26:24] Well, and I think he's going to have to, like if you're going to convert to a linebacker in the NFL, these are just some things that you're going to have to do.

Speaker 3:
[26:35] But I would get cuter on third downs, like and maybe that involves future in the draft, right? Like maybe that's where a Bud Clark in the fourth round could come in the play where you're playing like three safeties and having the bigger safety come in and guard the tight end and then that allows, you know, Arvell Reese to go down there and be a kind of off ball edge rush kind of combo situation. You know what I mean? Like they're going to have to get creative. I would try to avoid that on third downs at all costs.

Speaker 2:
[27:00] Yeah, so there, I think there's going to be areas of Arvell Reese's game where he's going to have to grow into, it may have to be trialed by fire at times. Like every single play, they're not just going to make him go forward against the run and then rush the passer. He's going to have to drop back into coverage. I think he has the athleticism to kind of just hang out there, but linebacker is one of those positions where you could be as fast as you want. We've talked about it, we talk about it all the time on the show. You could be as fast as you want, your 40 could be as fast as you want, but if you can't process accordingly, then you're going to play slow. So that is the worry with Arvell Reese.

Speaker 3:
[27:39] Yep, no question about it.

Speaker 2:
[27:41] Okay, do you want to describe, do you want to describe like the process on how we got here?

Speaker 3:
[27:49] Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:
[27:50] Before we go to Moe, Noah.

Speaker 3:
[27:51] Okay, so again, we all, me and Justin did a million shows, we both talked a little bit today, then we sat down and watched this draft. The draft takes off, okay, we kind of thought Bailey number two, now we get to number three. When Arizona was on the clock, Justin, did you think Jeremiah Love? What was your honest instinct at that point?

Speaker 2:
[28:10] I was pretty confident that when they didn't try to pick, it would be Jeremiah Love. I was the same guy. I got very happy. I got very, very, I had probably just as much of a celebration that the Cardinals took Jeremiah Love as to any of the players that the Giants took tonight.

Speaker 3:
[28:26] As well, I slapped hands with fellow Giants fan Chris McMonagle, we were both thrilled. And again, we now can be done with that, we don't have to debate about whether the Giants should have taken them, it was never even in their chance. Like I love that for my content creation. So once that happened, I got to be honest, as the Titans sat there at four, Justin, what went through my mind was, we're definitely getting either styles or downs. Because I kind of assumed knowing Robert Sala's history, he would have taken Arvell Reese. And then if he didn't, I thought maybe he would have taken styles, in which case, again, I had Caleb Downs in my head. So when they took Carnell Tate, I think I was totally blown away. Because at that point, now, you're talking about all three of those Ohio State guys being on the board. And then that is when it finally clicked with me. Oh my God, like, because again, Peter Schreger had it. This Arvell Reese thing is happening. But even in that moment, Justin, I said to myself, and I turned to, you know, people I was in the room with, I kind of was begging the phone was going to ring. I, you know, I got to be honest. I gave down, I thought, trade the pick. If somebody calls for Arvell Reese, trade the pick.

Speaker 2:
[29:29] Well, you want to know why, because you thought that maybe there was still a chance that you could trade down.

Speaker 3:
[29:35] Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:35] And you would still be able to get Caleb Downs slash Sonny Stiles.

Speaker 3:
[29:41] But even I thought that Stiles would never make it past Washington anyway. So even when trading down, I was-

Speaker 2:
[29:46] One of them was always going to Washington.

Speaker 3:
[29:49] My mindset went, if we play this right, we're going to end up with Downs and Maui Noah, because I thought at that point, no matter what, getting Caleb Downs, and I'm thinking about the offensive line in that spot. So that's where I was. But when they took Reese, I think I was just so stunned. I think I was stunned because I never processed in my mind that they were going to sit there at five with Arvell Reese on the clock and make the pick. Like of all the scenarios that unfolded that we went through with Mox, never once did this scenario actually make me like stop and go, yeah, that's realistic.

Speaker 2:
[30:20] No, because the Titans just flipped. I mean, nobody saw the Titans just-

Speaker 3:
[30:23] They changed everything with Tate. Tate changed the entire draft, the entire draft.

Speaker 2:
[30:28] The only thing- Thank you, Brian Gable. I honestly can see, I think there's a lot of Giants fans that are excited. I think they hit a home run tonight. I think they hit a home run. Just because it was something that we didn't expect, just because it was something that's a little surprising, doesn't mean that it's a bad draft. Now, these are players that are unconventional. These are players that like Arvell Reese is going to be asked to do a lot of things in the NFL that he was not asked to do at Ohio State. We talked about that, so I want to put this disclaimer out now that we are saying these things on this show, that if anybody wants to go back and clip us, well, you guys were so excited. Arvell Reese is being again, being asked to do a lot of things that he has not done before. Francis Mauigoa is moving over to guard, which he's never played before outside of like 14 snaps this year.

Speaker 3:
[31:16] Not entirely true now, as we found out.

Speaker 2:
[31:19] When did he play guard?

Speaker 3:
[31:20] Every week in practice, nonstop.

Speaker 2:
[31:24] Bruegler put that in, the beast that he asked, he would ask in practice to go and get reps a guard. But in game, doesn't change the fact that in game, besides 14 snaps, he hasn't played guard. So there's questions here. But I overall think that they hit a homerun. But the thing that if I am uncomfortable by anything, is that Sonny Stiles is a commander, and especially Caleb Downs being a Dallas Cowboy, bugs the shit out of me. And one of my best friends, Michael Boker, was here tonight, we were watching the draft together as I was doing socials, I really wanted to crush socials tonight. And while he was here, like I just, he was begging, begging Caleb Downs to fall. And I thought that was an absolute dream scenario for the Dallas Cowboys to get Caleb Downs to fall to 12. That's something that does bug me a little bit, that the Giants kind of allowed that to happen.

Speaker 3:
[32:32] Okay, it bothers me too, but at the same time, you have to farm your own land, Justin. And to even get there before we worry about both the commanders with styles and with the Cowboys and Downs, I would just ask any Giants fan who is like upset maybe that they passed on Downs. And again, I think we were both consistent. That was the guy you wanted. I preferred styles, but I still thought Downs was the best player on the draft. Would you rather be us sitting at five and going, how do you pass on Arvell Reese? Would you rather be the Titans taking a guy who may be sealing as a wide receiver two at four? Would you rather be the Arizona Cardinals who will probably get, you know, love to sign elsewhere in five years, have remixed five Pro Bowls, but they win six games every year? Like those two teams, whether they like their picks or not, you could argue made roster mistakes in terms of weighing the value, and that caused the Giants to have greater value with Reese. So that's why I'm not upset. And then again, Downs, when we get to later on a 10 and he's available, I wanted him. I thought that would be like, Oh my God, you're building a monster defense. But if the Giants were not going to take Caleb Downs to 10 and they were going to be willing to let him become a Dallas Cowboy, the only, only acceptable way you let that happen is if you take the best offensive lineman in the draft and you keep protecting Jackson's art. And that's exactly what they did.

Speaker 2:
[33:46] And that's exactly what they did. Francis Mauigoa, 6'5, 329 pounds, had a consensus ranking of 6'33 and a quarter inch arms. That's 50th percentile among guards. He's going to be 21 years old in June, still 20 years old right now. This year he was 12th in pass blocking efficiency and seventh in true pass sets, two sacks and three hits allowed. He was a three year starter at Tackle who started all 42 games and logged over a thousand snaps this year, man, with Miami's playoff run. I think he moves his feet really, I think he moves really well. I think he has pretty quick feet. It's not elite quick, but it's solid. And I think he does a great job of getting depth in his pass sets after the snap, immediately puts himself in a great position to win the play. He is a very in control and centered player. He is a square and balanced player. I don't think he puts himself in positions where like some maybe of his weaknesses are on display pretty often. Solid anchor and strong core. And I think these two factors that I'm gonna talk about, Shaun, why can Francis Mauigoa make a transition to guard? John Harbaugh and Joe Shane already announced tonight that that is the intention for Francis Mauigoa is that he is going to be playing right guard. Odds are you are, we are talking about the Giants, I'm hoping that we are talking about the Giants starting right guard for the 2026 season.

Speaker 3:
[35:17] Hard to imagine he would not be, but go on.

Speaker 2:
[35:19] These two elements are why I think he can be a successful guard in the NFL. Very strong core, very solid knee bend. Why does that translate to the inside? From being a tackle? You're inevitably playing against interior defense alignment that are bigger than edge rushers in college, right? And if you can bend your knees, and if you're able to keep all of that power in your lower half and in your core, utilize a little bit of a hop step every once in a while. And if you're able to be a balanced pass blocker and keep everything squared and centered, I think that translates naturally to the inside. I think he is very, very, very strong. And I think his hands between his hand power, his hand striking, ability to work independent hands, overall hand technique is very, very good. Very, very good and advanced for a 20-year-old at this level. Now, where I think he could get better, I think sometimes he is very prone to leaning. I think he is a leaner. I think that it could especially show up in the run game. I want him to get meaner. Like I think I'm pretty surprised to see, usually guys that lean, especially in the run game, they're leaning because they want to be finishers. They're leaning because they want to just be this nasty mauler. I don't know if I view Moe Noah. He has plays on tape where he's putting guys on the ground. Yeah, like Notre Dame, there's a couple of plays where he's putting guys on the ground. I don't view him as like a nasty, like Ioannis nasty, right?

Speaker 3:
[37:07] Right.

Speaker 2:
[37:07] He's a nasty guard. I don't think Moe Noah as like a mauler dude, you know?

Speaker 3:
[37:14] Yeah, but you know what, Justin, just real quickly, obviously very different players, Chris Knee wasn't a nasty mauler either.

Speaker 2:
[37:21] Right.

Speaker 3:
[37:22] And that's arguably your best interior offensive lineman we've seen maybe in our lifetimes. And that's kind of what you're looking for here.

Speaker 2:
[37:28] And I think Moe Noah is so technically advanced. And it's funny that Chris Knee is in the scouting department now.

Speaker 3:
[37:34] Yep.

Speaker 2:
[37:35] Is this Chris Knee? Is this his first maybe was he there for JMS? I don't think he was.

Speaker 3:
[37:42] I don't think he was there in 23.

Speaker 2:
[37:43] Is this Chris Knee's first like top 100 offensive line pick? They didn't do they didn't they didn't draft one last year.

Speaker 3:
[37:49] No, because Marcus Bowe was a fifth rounder, probably.

Speaker 2:
[37:51] Oh, besides Marcus Bowe. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[37:53] But he wasn't a top 100.

Speaker 2:
[37:55] Right. He was not a top 100 pick. Okay. So this is Chris, the Chris Knee developmental school. Get ready, buddy. So yeah, a little bit of a leaner. I think he struggles with zone and reach blocks where he has to work across a guy's face, especially in the run game. So there's areas where I think he needs to get a little bit better. And we'll see what the transition inside looks like. In the 14 reps that I clipped up, Shaun, because I watched all 14 plays of him at right guard in 2025. I found all of them. Miami would run like the same like offset formation. And they always ask Mauigoa to be like a puller. We never saw like a conventional drop back from the quarterback where Mauigoa was like a legit like pass blocker. He would always be pulling across. Now one time he put a guy on his ass against Pittsburgh and it led to a touchdown. There were other times against Texas A&M where he looked a little lost out in space and it didn't look that great. But I'm not using 14 plays where he was only a puller in an offset formation where Miami would run like one of three plays to make any kind of assessment on Mauigoa's future at guard.

Speaker 3:
[39:09] Yeah, I completely agree. And Justin also like just very fundamentally NFL wise, we have been here before with top 100 picks at tackles. And oftentimes we wonder where they fail. And what is the first thing we ask when they start failing? Well, is it possible they kick inside the guard? Not that we would have had the same thing happen if we were if they didn't sign a Luminor and we were in desperate need of Mauigoa to go play right tackle. But we're kind of already making life easier for Francis Mauigoa's transition into the NFL by not putting him in island spots at tackle anyway. So some of those things you have concerns about in terms of the leaning or like, you know, figuring out, you know, the different ways he's going to pull and all that other stuff. I just kind of think at the NFL level, when you have Andrew Thomas and Jermaine Luminora at the tackles, he's going to be all right. And he's never going to have those moments where he feels completely overwhelmed. Or at least when he does get overwhelmed on plays, I don't think it'll be like this enormous backlash spot where he's asking, being asked a million questions as a 21 year old kid after the game about what he screwed up, why the quarterback got hurt because of him. Like, like that stuff won't exist. And I think that's going to go a long way mentally for a young man trying to develop his game as a guard in the NFL.

Speaker 2:
[40:15] Yeah. And dude, I freaking loved. Did you hear? I mean, I know you were live streaming.

Speaker 3:
[40:22] But did he die for you, bro? Did the Jackson dart?

Speaker 2:
[40:25] I'll about die this shit, man. I'm ready to die for you, man. I love that shit. I love that shit, man.

Speaker 3:
[40:33] How great was that? How great was that? Also, on top of that, you wrote up the Dane Bruegler quote. I have it from Dan Duggan here. He tweeted about an hour ago. Quote, almost all his college snaps, 99.5% came at right tackle. Position versatility is a projection. Maui Noah requested guard reps in practice to gain experience inside. His quote to any coach that met with him, there are five offensive line positions. I just want one of them. So again, this is not like a guy who's coming in with some kind of ego going, oh, I was a tackle in football. He wants to embrace dying for Jackson Dard on the field at right guard. And unlike when the Giants sat there and needed to draft the center in John Michael Schmitz, who we did want in 2023, the Giants found themselves in a spot where they were either going to roll the dice on what their guard room was or we're going to attack this in round two at pick 37 with guys we had talked about, Peasantis or, you know, Pregnon. And instead, they took a guy that they think is the best offensive lineman in the draft. He fills an immediate need for them. And in the end, if in two years, Jermaine Illuminore's contract are ready to get rid of and they're comfortable enough kicking him back to the outside, it's not about what he is in 2026. He could be anything they really want him to be in 2028 and beyond. And that's really important when investing a top ten pick.

Speaker 4:
[41:54] CC, what do you want to tell Jackson Dart about how you'll help protect him on this Giants' online? I'll die about this shit, man. Man, I'm ready to die for you, man.

Speaker 3:
[42:05] How good is that? You know, and Justin, one more point on this. All the talk we had about Jeremiah Love and whether the debate was, hey, the Giants' offensive line is ready to take a running back high. I think you and I were in agreement that they weren't, that a lot of stuff is really overblown, especially when looking at the right guard spot. Man, now you just kind of look at that giant line of paper now and you consider a Luminor, Thomas, Maui, Noah. We'll see what John Michael Schmitz is, but you know, he was better last year. And obviously you live with a, if John Runyon Jr. is your worst problem at left guard and you had a Patrick Ricard to the full back spot here, it's so funny because now the Giants are in a position where if you told me they're in position to take a running back in the first round, I could buy it now. This was the separator. And Marcus Bowe is their swing tackle. This is probably the best I felt truly about a Giants offensive line, not just for 2026, but kind of the trajectory moving forward. And I think Marcus Bowe is a big part of that, not having to rush him at a right tackle right now. Maybe since those Super Bowl teams, man. This is why the passing on Downs will bother us with Dallas. But really, when you think about how many years in a row we've screamed about one injury on the offensive line and ruining everything, the teams built differently now in the trenches. This pick changed a lot for the way you look at the Giants on paper.

Speaker 2:
[43:23] And Daniel Felleli as our backup guard, hell yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[43:28] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:29] Hell yeah, as a backup guard. Same thing with Marcus Bowe being a swing tackle and a developmental offensive lineman. Yeah, Lucas Patrick.

Speaker 3:
[43:36] Lucas Patrick.

Speaker 2:
[43:37] John Michael Schmidt's under contract for one more year. Maybe Marcus Bowe makes a transition to the inside, even though I do see Marcus Bowe being a world where Marcus Bowe can be an okay tackle. Francis Mauigoa expectations for year one. It's so tough for interior. I think it's tough for cornerbacks, quarterbacks, of course, but non-quarterback positions. I think it's toughest for cornerbacks, CBs, interior O-linemen and interior D-linemen to transition the most, for whatever reason. For whatever reason, sometimes it just takes them time. So my overall ask for, I'm going to ask this of myself and I'm going to ask this of Giants fans. If Francis Mauigoa struggles from the get-go, try and have some patience because it's just one of those spots where I use Zion Johnson as the example. I use Kenyon Green as the example. You can have the most polished interior offense alignment prospects ever, but sometimes it just takes them two, three years to really get going. But regardless of even of that, all the off season, all the bitching and the complaining and the moaning that we did, Shaun, I think rightfully so about how the Giants approached this offensive line, out the window. They took it seriously. They did. Good for them.

Speaker 3:
[45:06] We cannot have a conversation about the team not wanting to protect Jackson Dart at all costs. And, oh, by the way, another good offensive alignment and pass protection may mean less reps of Jackson Dart. I feel like he has to bail and scramble out and then take a hit to the head, which was obviously one of the number one talking points throughout the entire season.

Speaker 2:
[45:25] What's your take on the back issue?

Speaker 3:
[45:28] I mean, we talked about this at the end of last show. Again, I'm going to trust that this team, with how much focus John Harbaugh put in changing over the medical staff with the Giants, like one of the first things he did, I got to trust that they don't think it's an issue. Because again, I don't think you have Caleb Downs on your board. Like Connor Hughes reported, if Arvell Reese wasn't the pick at five, if he was gone, the Giants were going to take down. So if you were going to take downs at five, if Arvell Reese was in there and then you passed on him for Mauigoa, I got to think I shouldn't panic about the back because there's no way in the earth that John Harbaugh had picked number 10 feels based on what his medical team is telling him that the back will be an issue. But again, we live this game with Andrew Thomas and it's a scary one. So I'm trusting them. But of course, like anytime you hear big man back or foot problem, you have to kind of hold your nose a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[46:20] Before we keep going, because there are some things that I want to read on his back injury. I do want to talk to you about Hems. Today's episode is sponsored by Hems. ED is more common than you think and easier to treat than ever. Through Hems, you can connect with an online with a licensed health care provider to access legitimate ED treatment options discreetly and on your terms. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hems connects to you with the licensed providers from home with 100% online access and a simple intake process that helps determine if treatment is right for you. It prescribed your medication ships directly to your door in discreet packaging. This includes Cydonafil, also known as a generic for Viagra, also through Hems or add up to 95% less than the brand's name version. To get simple online access, personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.com/giants. That's hims.com/giants for your free online visit hims.com/giants. Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information and for information. So I don't know, Phil is a generic version of Viagra. I'm definitely saying that wrong. Viagra is a registered trademark of Viatris. Specialty LLC of Viatris company. Hems incorporated is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris Specialty LLC. Death taxes and me saying things wrong in an ad. Thank you, Hems. Love it. So with the whole my neck, my back, lick my what and my crack. Mike Garofolo tweeted this out. The Giants work closely with the Hurricanes athletic training staff and medical staffs leading up to the draft. They were supremely confident in the info that they got back on Francis Mauigoa's back. Okay. And also Dan Duggan. Francis Mauigoa did a pre-draft visit with the Giants that hadn't been reported. So that I think now that's like the 22nd top 30 visit that we know about. There are more visits that we don't know about. And we probably will hear, we probably will, as if the Giants draft somebody, and we don't know who he is or we don't know what they're about, then odds are it's going to hear, oh, well, we did have a pre-draft visit. We just didn't tell you guys. Another thing that's very, very important in this process, Shaun, Ryan Donlevy, in regard to Francis Mauigoa's back injury, it's worth remembering that the Giants just hired their new head trainer from where?

Speaker 3:
[48:49] University of Miami.

Speaker 2:
[48:50] The Miami Hurricanes. No one knows Mauigoa's medical records better than Adam Bennett.

Speaker 3:
[48:55] Bam. That's a great line.

Speaker 2:
[48:58] Do you think, do you think they did that intentionally?

Speaker 3:
[49:04] Um, no. Because how do they know the Browns aren't taking Mauigoa at six?

Speaker 2:
[49:08] Oh, this is a sports radio conspiracy that I thought you would be all over.

Speaker 3:
[49:13] No, because you know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of they hired Matt Stafford's brother-in-law because Matt Stafford's coming here.

Speaker 2:
[49:20] By the way, can I say something at the 48-minute mark of the Talkin Giants show that...

Speaker 3:
[49:26] Is it about Ty Simpson going 13?

Speaker 2:
[49:28] No, it's not. It's about Chad Hall, the Giants' current wide receiver coach, former assistant quarterback coach, who is Matthew Stafford's brother-in-law. I exchanged a meal with him a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 3:
[49:41] What do you mean you exchanged? Like you were his daughter?

Speaker 2:
[49:42] I had a meal. I had a meal with him.

Speaker 3:
[49:44] Who says I exchanged a meal? You sat down and had a meal with him.

Speaker 2:
[49:47] I sat down and I had a meal with him. I had a walk. I had a talk with him. He's a pretty good dude. Did you pay? No, he didn't pay either. We paid for each other.

Speaker 3:
[49:58] Oh, you paid separate? You put down a card and said split this bill?

Speaker 2:
[50:01] Well, we were with a group of people. It wasn't just me and him. We didn't have a date.

Speaker 3:
[50:06] A nice guy?

Speaker 2:
[50:07] Did he give you any good food? He's friends with Trevor Plouffe. Because Trevor Plouffe is with the Clausons and the Stafford and all that stuff. Of course, Chad Hall with the Stafford's too, and Matthew Stafford's wife, Kelly. Is it Kelly Stafford?

Speaker 3:
[50:21] Yeah, Kelly Stafford.

Speaker 2:
[50:23] So yes, he was in Jersey because they were having, it was like day two of the of the voluntary program a couple weeks ago. And I had dinner with him.

Speaker 3:
[50:33] I like it, Justin. So now you got a little hook. Now we know he likes John Harbaugh.

Speaker 2:
[50:37] Can I give the update? He likes John Harbaugh.

Speaker 3:
[50:40] I'd hope he's his employer.

Speaker 2:
[50:43] Yeah. Imagine if he said I hated him.

Speaker 3:
[50:46] Yeah, that'd be really awkward. John Harbaugh only kept select coaches. I'm going to assume those guys that he kept, they like him.

Speaker 2:
[50:51] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[50:52] You need to give me better dirt than that, Justin. I got to teach you a thing or two.

Speaker 2:
[50:56] What else about Francis Mauigoa? So we're fine with this. You want to know why? You want to know why I'm kind of like, yeah. I mean, is the fact that there were reports circulating that if something flares up during training camp that he can miss the whole season? Yes. Is that concerning? But you want to know what, Shaun? One of the parts of the pre-draft process that everybody just needs to understand is that we have probably 3%, 4%, 5% of the amount of information that NFL teams actually have.

Speaker 3:
[51:28] Of course. Great point, Justin.

Speaker 2:
[51:30] You know, so like, I don't know who these, that's why whenever I try and do a scouting, when I read like my thoughts on players, I always try to include like who they are as leaders and who they are as players and things like that. Because I think that is a huge part of the scouting process. Medicals are a huge part of the scouting process, but we don't have access to medicals and I'm not a doctor. So even if I had access to these medicals, I wouldn't know what the hell I'm looking at anyway.

Speaker 3:
[51:54] Great point. And then to add to that, I think Justin, if you're kind of encapsulating what happened in the first round, and if there's Giants negativity to come out of the first round, it is that Caleb Downs went to the Dallas Cowboys and the Giants went with Mauigoa here, right? We could all agree that that's where the negativity will come from even a vocal minority, right? Yes. Would you agree? Okay. So for that vocal minority out there doesn't like that the Giants did this at 10. And again, I think Caleb Downs is going to be awesome. I'm not going to change my position on this because he's a cowboy. You know what the Giants did when they took Mauigoa at 10, Justin? They, to me, made the classic Dallas Cowboys pick and all ironically. Like the Cowboys ended up with Downs out of this. But isn't the Giants taking Mauigoa where you were like questioning whether it's like the biggest need in the world to go online? Doesn't that feel like name all of these guys from Guyton to Smith to Zach Martin?

Speaker 2:
[52:45] Like wasn't Zach Martin a tackle in college?

Speaker 3:
[52:48] Yes, exactly. Like this is exactly what the Dallas Cowboys do. That is never sexy, but is always right. So I find it very funny that we're worried about what the Cowboys did when what the Giants did was why the Cowboys have been successful. You know what I mean? Like I know I just took a convoluted road to get there, but this is classic smart Cowboys drafting football what the Giants did.

Speaker 2:
[53:10] Is there anything else? I'm going through my bookmarks of things I want to talk about. The last thing, I guess, did you see... Let's see, what did they say? It was Shane and Harbaugh. Joe Shane says that Arvell Reese was number one on the Giants board amongst non-quarterbacks. And did you see that Shane kind of like looked to Harbaugh for approval on if he should say that and then Harbaugh was like, go ahead?

Speaker 3:
[53:36] I didn't see that because I only read the quote.

Speaker 2:
[53:37] It was funny. It was funny.

Speaker 3:
[53:39] That is funny. And they had a very high as well, obviously.

Speaker 2:
[53:42] Like they asked him, was like, how highly rated was Arvell Reese on your board? And Shane looks to daddy for approval. Ain't that right, Joe?

Speaker 3:
[53:56] He loved, by the way, that feels so demoralizing every time he gives you an ain't that right, Joe.

Speaker 2:
[54:00] Dude, ain't that right? I was like, all the time.

Speaker 3:
[54:04] Yeah, it's kind of like, Joe, good boy, Joe, right? Good boy. Now you have a treat. It's so weird.

Speaker 2:
[54:10] It's the way that it is, though, and I think it's very apparent what's happening there. Poor Joe, Shane. OK, pick 37, Shaun. All right.

Speaker 3:
[54:20] So, look, we talked for a long time about Guard or D-Tackle here. So I feel like now that Guard is off the board with Maui-Noah, D-Tackle feels right. However, we kind of thought D-Tackle might come off the board a little earlier. Peter Woods was a first round pick. Caleb Banks, shockingly, was a first round pick. And now we find the spot.

Speaker 2:
[54:40] I'm not shocked.

Speaker 3:
[54:41] I know you're not. I know you're not.

Speaker 2:
[54:43] I'm not shocked. I told you on the show that both of those players are top 15 to top 20 talents.

Speaker 3:
[54:48] Yeah, so like the Bills trading back now, they're interesting. Are they going to go de-tackle and take Kaden MacDonald?

Speaker 2:
[54:53] They're going to take Kaden MacDonald. I'm very confident in that.

Speaker 3:
[54:55] And if they do that, I think it comes down to one of two things. I have heard the Giants like Christian Miller, the obviously the defensive tackle from Georgia. That is what I was told. But again, they had a 30 visit with him. The same people who told me that told me that Caleb Downs would be a giant. So take that with a grain of salt. And John Harbaugh.

Speaker 2:
[55:16] And all fairness to all the people that said that Caleb Downs would be a giant. Nobody saw Arvell Reese coming.

Speaker 3:
[55:21] That's fair. That's actually a great point.

Speaker 2:
[55:23] So look, I don't think the Giants saw that coming.

Speaker 3:
[55:28] Probably not. I think they were stunned. And I think this really changed everything. But so Justin, with those d-tackles off the board, especially if McDonald goes, and the kid from Texas Tech, why am I blanking on his name? Lee Hunter, he's still there. The question is, is that where the Giants are going to go at 37? Or, because we've already had this very surprising draft, there has been a freefall of guys in the secondary. Whether it's Terrell from Clemson, whether it's Colton Hood from Tennessee, and of course, who is the kid from, who am I thinking, McCoy? McCoy, who everybody thought could be a first round pick, but had some medical issues. Or your guy, Emmanuel McNeil Warren. They passed on Caleb Downs.

Speaker 2:
[56:07] I love Dude.

Speaker 3:
[56:09] He fell for the second round too. Yeah, like, so I think conventional wisdom says de-tackle because that's the most thing, the obvious thing the Giants need. But man, there's a lot of bodies in secondary and Denzel Boston is still sitting there from Washington, the wide receiver. Like, if they were serious about Tyson, they're serious about that. Now, can I play a little like Jedi mind trick? This will kind of be like my last kind of point in round two. Yeah. I'm going to be okay if they address the secondary and ignore de-tackle, and I can't believe I'm saying that because I feel more confident in the old line now, and I understand the way the board has fell, but the Giants next year have that boatload of cap room that, again, they'll go into 2028 also with more cap room, right? Like, we understand the next two years are going to be like that space. I actually trust the John Harbaugh, Donna Ponte and Joe Shane Giants right now. Do your homework. Have your people on it. What is more likely to be more rich where you're going to make a splash in free agency next year? And I haven't done this homework yet tonight because I didn't know where this draft ball was going to happen. Defensive tackle or cornerback? Because if you feel like the better player on the board at 37 is a cornerback and you maybe have that D tackle ranked a little bit lower, but you feel pressure after the Dexter Lawrence trade to get a D tackle, do you kind of bite the bullet and sign another extra veteran? Maybe you didn't think you were going to sign a D tackle because, and again, maybe there's no name. You feel like next year, whether it's either in the draft or in free agency, if it's more rich to add to the D tackle room, then it will be the cornerback room, then I'm okay going with a guy in the secondary here at pick number 37.

Speaker 2:
[57:41] Yeah, I mean, I think I get the love enough money to do both, but I always lean, I always lean cornerback in free agency and you always have to overpay for defensive tackles in free agency. I will say for 37, if Caden McDonald somehow falls.

Speaker 3:
[57:56] Well, he's the pick to me, but you have me now thinking Buffalo. Buffalo could also take Boston, by the way. They do need a wide receiver again.

Speaker 2:
[58:04] Caden McDonald is my number one right now. I love Emmanuel McNeil Warren.

Speaker 3:
[58:11] That's a sleeper pick for the Giants because everybody screamed about Caleb Downs and the Kyle Hamilton type safety. I mean, he's fast as hell. Like that could be a surprise for a giant pick there.

Speaker 2:
[58:20] And I will say, man, like you have questions about, you know, you want to put Arvell Reese at the will. Do you think about Jacob Rodriguez and you can he could be like your future Mike Linebacker?

Speaker 3:
[58:34] I don't know if I'm ready to do that with this pick. Now, I think Arvell Reese takes it off the board for me.

Speaker 2:
[58:39] But Arvell Reese, I think, can play a completely different position.

Speaker 3:
[58:43] Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's good to have these options. I'll tell you what I don't want to do anymore, Justin. I don't want to trade out of 37. I don't care about the third-round pick anymore.

Speaker 2:
[58:54] There's Malik, not really Malik Mohammed. That would be a little too early for him. I'm going off of ESPN. So this day, however, they rank their players.

Speaker 3:
[59:01] Like I think Colton Hood is a good pick too.

Speaker 2:
[59:04] Yeah. Anthony Hill. They had a top 30 visit with Trotter, Josiah Trotter.

Speaker 3:
[59:15] What about any of these receivers? Did they do any top 30s with Brazil or Branch or Jeremy Bernard or Denzel Boston? Because like they could get a run of receivers here early too.

Speaker 2:
[59:25] They did top 30 with Mackay Lemon. And remember, there's eight other top 30 visits that we don't necessarily know about.

Speaker 3:
[59:34] Right.

Speaker 2:
[59:34] KC, they did a top 30. He's out of the picture. Malik Benson is going to be a day three pick most likely.

Speaker 3:
[59:42] I got one more sleeper for you.

Speaker 2:
[59:44] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[59:45] Mike Washington Jr, the running back. Oh, they just invested in guard. If the Jeremiah Love stuff was real, there were people that thought he was the second best running back in the draft. That would be a commitment to running the football and getting another weapon. I'm just saying that's another possibility here at 37.

Speaker 2:
[60:06] Yeah. I think it's going to be Chris Denmiller if Kane and McDonald's not there. I just think they want to get... They're going to feel the heat to add an interior defense alignment after trading Dixie Lawrence.

Speaker 3:
[60:18] That's what my gut says too.

Speaker 2:
[60:20] But again, if Emmanuel McNeil-Warren is there, I think he's going to be my number one player if Kane and McDonald is not there at 37.

Speaker 3:
[60:30] I want McCoy. I want McCoy the corner. But again, the Giants put me in the spot. If they take one of these wide receivers, I'm going to be happy too. And honestly, I won't complain if they take Washington because at least they've already shown me they're committing to the offensive line part of it. So Justin, the Giants have oddly found themselves by checking a big box in the trenches on defense, checking one of the best players in the draft on defense. I think I'm oddly comfortable even if it's not D-Tackle where I can't believe I'm saying that because I thought it was D-Tackler bussed for them at 37 for basically two weeks now.

Speaker 2:
[61:04] All right, well, we're going to be live tomorrow night too. I've never really gone live Friday night after day two of the NFL draft. So Shaun and I are going to do that. We will be live tomorrow night to recap 37, if they trade back up at the day two, which I think is kind of unlikely. But we'll be live to recap whatever happens. Thank you so much for watching. If you can like the stream, I would really appreciate it. It is 1230 right now and we have 1.4 thousand people watching on YouTube right now. I am so thankful for you. Let's freaking go Giants, man. Home run, night one of the draft. Comment below. Leave a comment on this video and let me know who you want for Pick 37, if there's anybody else that we should be looking into. So like, comment, subscribe. Let's go Giants. Welcome Arvell Reese, welcome Francis Mauigoa. We'll see you tomorrow night. Thanks for listening. It starts today.