transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:19] All right, welcome in to The Walkout, presented by Joseph Toyota of Cincinnati. Paul Dehner Jr. here with Charlie Goldsmith. We are inside the Bengals Press Conference Room. They had to open it up for us. They turned some lights on, too, which I thought was nice. But it could have stayed locked all night because literally nothing happened in here on night one. From my perspective, Charlie, that's good news for us, or else we would be recording this approximately two or three hours later.

Speaker 2:
[00:52] It's funny, I literally said to Dan Hort around the 28th pick, like, we're all just kind of sitting back, and I said, could you imagine just from our perspective what this night would be like if they moved up? But it turns out they don't have to because this draft shook out well for them.

Speaker 1:
[01:05] Did shake out well. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about the Caleb Downs factor. We are going to talk about a really interesting list of best players available as you do the math to nine. How about this? The math to nine is a lot better than the math to 10 was.

Speaker 2:
[01:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[01:24] Coming into this draft, that's why the Bengals have to be feel better about where they're sitting right now. We're going to talk a little bit about some defensive tackles, what happened in the AFC North, and much, much more. Before we do that, though, Bengals fans, you know, I got to tell you about our good friends at Joseph Toyota of Cincinnati. It's draft weekend. The front office has been grinding. This is their big moment. It's always the big moment, though, at Joseph Toyota Cincinnati. They're always ready for you. So long time grow pal, Kevin, his crew over there, they're on top of their game 100 percent of the time. They're always prepared, helping people find the right vehicle, giving honest numbers, making the whole process clear, transparent. It's why we love them. They selected the best players in sales and finance and service. Everybody knows their role and they can execute. So whether you're checking out a dependable Camry, a versatile RAV4, a powerful Tundra that's ready for tailgates, you'll get the same thing every time. Straight answers, fair deals, and a team is locked in. Joseph Toyota has all the data and experience that you need to help you pick the perfect vehicle for your squad. Stop by, see Kevin and the crew, Joseph Toyota, Cincinnati, right off Colerain, online anytime at josephtoyota.com. All right, let's hop a little bit into this draft. I think everybody was gonna say, what was 10 gonna look like, right? Who was gonna be there? Who did they pass up on so that Dexter Lawrence can do what he did at the draft party tonight and pull off the first public sexy Dexter for everybody here that showed up despite the pick, which was a popular thing.

Speaker 2:
[03:02] I like the insinuation that he's been doing private sexy Dexies, being so excited about the trade. But then today, he did it in front of the fans.

Speaker 1:
[03:09] And unveiling the first Cincinnati's first version. He didn't do it at the press conference for us, which really would have been probably more memorable. But that's okay, he can do his thing. Who am I to question the use of his own dance? Outside of that, though, what did you make out of the fact that Caleb Downs was there? Ruben Bain was there. They both go a few picks later. Of course, Downs ends up going to the Cowboys at 11, and Bain ends up going to the Bucs at 15.

Speaker 2:
[03:37] I don't have any intel from Dallas' perspective. But in my heart of hearts, I believe that if the Bengals still had the 10th pick, Dallas would have traded up to nine with Cleveland, jumped the Bengals and gotten Caleb Downs anyway. Cleveland was in a spot where they needed offensive line. If you look at how this shook out and what we expected heading in, you can get offensive line throughout the teens in this class. A lot of those guys were in a similar bucket. Dallas obviously was looking to trade up, making sure they could get the guy they clearly prioritized in Caleb Downs. What changed was with the 10th pick, it was a Giants team that needed offense as opposed to a Bengals team that needed defense. The Cowboys clearly had an idea that the Giants weren't going to pick Downs. The Bengals weren't going to pick Malinowar or an offensive tackle. The Bengals would have. Dallas' actions showed that they were ready to move up pretty decently to get that star defensive playmaker. And I think because Cleveland also would have been incentivized to move down based on how their draft form would have shaken out. I don't think Downs would have even been there at 10 if the Bengals still had the 10th pick.

Speaker 1:
[04:40] No, Dallas was ready to move to wherever they needed to move to to make that happen. The Bengals knew it. They were sitting ducks at 10 because the teams that were going to be hanging out above them were going to have some interest in moving back. That ended up inevitably being the Cleveland Browns that moved back once and could have moved back twice. I got a feeling that the Browns wouldn't have minded moving back and let another team come up and steal Caleb Downs from the Bengals as well. I'm with you on that said though, we're still going to do this.

Speaker 2:
[05:10] Of course.

Speaker 1:
[05:11] We're still going to play out the what could have been on the Caleb Downs and on Ruben Bayne as well and what that means. I'll say this, I just can't get the past, this one aspect of it is that if you're really trying to think about this and you're really saying what was Caleb Downs the better pick, should they have gone with Ruben Bayne? Close your eyes for a second. Imagine it's week 13. It's Bengals Chiefs. You show up to the stadium to yell and cheer and everything else. Who are you hoping is on that field? Dexter Lawrence or Caleb Downs? The answer is obviously Dexter Lawrence. In a team that's in win now mode that needs this season more than any they have in recent years or who knows what comes next, that's your answer. That's the answer. It's been what we've been saying for a lot of teams. In a lot of years, this franchise, Caleb Downs would have been a better answer here. Not right now. Not with where they're at right now. Not without the line, the defense, the state of the franchise. That was still the right move, whether Caleb Downs or Ruben Bain was there or not.

Speaker 2:
[06:20] I keep going back to this with Lawrence. What the Bengals defense needed more than anything was a face and a soul of the defense. Really someone who's both, like Trey Hendrickson was great, but wasn't necessarily that soul, that behind the scenes presence who everyone looks to and points you to lead you out of whatever muck you're in. The first guy to stand up and talk to the group when things are going wrong. A lot of guys had that role in the 2022 Bengals. I point to Jesse Bates specifically as a guy who blended being the face and the soul of the defense. You can say the exact same thing about DJ Reader. They had two of them, the 2026 Bengals, as much as I like, DJ Turner and Daxil, Miles Murphy, the young guys, the Bengals needed that presence, that son that everyone revolves around more than anything. Downs could have become that certainly, but Lawrence is that veteran ready to do that, and I think that will elevate so many guys around him.

Speaker 1:
[07:10] Yeah, on a team that has a bunch of guys trying to become something on the defensive side of the ball, you got to have one guy that already is, and they have that now, and that's better than anything that Caleb Downs is going to be this year, maybe, probably. All right, let's go further. Give me one more draft thought before we go and just rapid fire through a couple.

Speaker 2:
[07:34] Back on the Dexter Lawrence point, but kind of expanding it around, you had the Vikings making an aggressive, I'll call it a reach for Caleb Banks, and then you have Peter Woods going to the Chiefs, and what I saw was an aggressive reach as well. Both players had massive stains on their draft resumes, but the thesis is, you've got to reach no matter what to get a true potential impact defensive tackle. Look at the third round pick for Osa Adegazua in the trade market. Look at the massive contract that John Franklin Myers got. Look at Walter Nolan going pick 16 last year. Look at the Bengals trading in the 10th round pick for Dexter Lawrence. You know, to borrow a baseball term, if you're rational about every baseball line, if you're rational about every defensive tackle out there, you're not going to get a defensive tackle. And the way the draft played out today was a reminder that Woods and Banks weren't going to be there on your mock drafts. The Bengals wouldn't have been able to fix the defensive tackle, which is another reason why you trade for Dexter.

Speaker 1:
[08:30] It's a great point. And you've seen this be not only just defensive tackle, but trading out in general. Obviously a lot of teams that didn't like this draft where you had five teams that traded for players. And then in the back end of this round, you see a lot of movement. You see a lot of people trading out. To me, it's a precursor for tomorrow. Tomorrow, where it feels like once we got past that group, whatever you wanted to say, I guess, 20 maybe.

Speaker 2:
[08:55] Great point.

Speaker 1:
[08:56] Now, everybody has their personal player that they like or sees a big group that makes for matches to move. That's how every single pick at the end of the first round goes. Hang on tomorrow because there's a lot of options available and trading in this particular giant section of the draft feels like what you're going to see with a lot of people just trying to maneuver to see wherever they're at with that pick. Now we know with the Bengals, it's going to be kind of about trying to move back is going to be a part of probably that we got to assume. So that's something to keep an eye on there. Anything else? I mean, to me, I think we will kind of kick forward to tomorrow a little bit. I've got the full list, but I want to focus on one name so we can flesh this out. Jermod McCoy. So Tennessee cornerback, tears his ACL, doesn't play last year. 2024 tape is arguably the best season of cornerback tape was available in this draft. Now, there's another issue with his knee. You heard Dane on our podcast tell you that, look, their teams have taken him off their draft board. There could be another procedure necessary there. So here he is, still available. He slides all the way out of the first round into round two. The Bengals obviously at one point before this latest medical ding came out. We're very much considering Jermod McCoy at number 10 overall. He's a great player. Now, to me, a risk that you will not take in the first round or the top of a draft is something like that because of just the nature of how big the risk is and the want to have an immediate impact player. However, at 41, to me, it's a risk worth taking where you have Dax Hill and DJ Turner already in place. You don't need him to be healthy immediately. If it takes him half a season to get fully up to speed, you're okay with it. I wouldn't have a problem with it. The question is, what is the Bengals' view of the medical and of the risk associated with taking that on? Because if you think that you're getting that player even for the second half of the season, then can be the guy next year. Well, to be honest, that's kind of what you hoped you were drafting with any cornerback anyway.

Speaker 2:
[11:08] It goes down to what kind of second round is this for the Bengals, is a best player available second round or a draft for need second round? Because if McCoy, you know, if this is the best player available second round for the Bengals, that probably is going to be McCoy not having seen the Medicals myself. If this is a draft for need second round, corner of course would be, I think their biggest need, you can make it is for linebacker. But if the injuries create a resume where is he able to give you enough instant impact? Is he going to be on the field enough in training camp in your off season program? Any sort of questions about what he can give you over the long run of the season? Do you feel like you're checking that box for the long run over 18 weeks and beyond this season with that medical question? We've seen the Bengals attack this both ways, best player available slash player for need over their recent second round history. Like sorry, Jackson Carmen was a draft for need. Demetrius Knight was a draft for need. Chris Jenkins was a best player available that hasn't worked out, but that's what that pick was. DJ Turner and Cam Taylor-Britt were best players available. We've seen the Bengals force picks in the second round. We've seen the Bengals stick to their board in the second round. If they stick to their board, I could easily see McCoy being at the top of that. If they feel like they need to draft for a corner who can help them now, that's where it becomes trickier.

Speaker 1:
[12:27] The corner board is in a nice place, I think, and then there's the surprise there still there top of the board, I think, that's in a pretty nice place from a Bengals perspective. We saw all the offensive linemen, we saw a ton of the edges come off the board there in the first round and fill up a lot of the back half of the round, a couple of surprise picks. Let's take a look and just dive into both of those right now as we talk about what the Bengals might do at 41. Remember, the math to nine is what we're talking about here. How are you going to get there? I'm just going to read off a bunch of names.

Speaker 2:
[13:01] Real quick, we had the Al Golden 7, let's call this the Chuck Birx 9.

Speaker 1:
[13:04] The Chuck Birx 9, we're on our way to it. We'll start, I'll let you start off not going there. Caden McDonald is still there. I mean, will he slip to 41? That seems unlikely, but I think you have to consider it. If he actually were there, I think you absolutely are considering it. And you're saying, okay, now we officially are saving the 6.6 on TJ Slaton on that. But beyond that, McCoy, we talked about Colton Hood, the other Tennessee corner, still there. Really interesting to see Emanuel McNeil-Warner from Toledo still there. He could play your star role and be kind of an Eamon Worry type if you wanted to try to use him that way. Certainly a fascinating figure in that. TJ Parker from Clemson, the Edge, he's still there. A guy you saw maybe in the teens. Clemson defensive lineman, sounds familiar here. Don't forget, Jerry Montgomery and Al Golden both were at the Clemson Pro Day scouting all of those guys, looking at them closely. You could very much see, if that's a BPA pick that you just say, I know we weren't going to go Edge, but we also didn't think TJ Parker was going to be there, you could hear that conversation. Then you get into some names you know, Jacob Rodriguez, we've talked about a lot. Back to Clemson, Avey Ontario, another corner, CJ Allen, the linebacker, Anthony Hill, the linebacker, Brandon Cissé, if you're talking about the corner, now we're into the corners and the slot guys, trade on Stukes, D'Angelo Pons. All of those guys are still available here as we start, sets up for the potential trade back and the potential for them to be sitting there at 41 being like, huh, didn't think he would be here and maybe doing something that surprises us.

Speaker 2:
[14:36] I have a few tiers. I have McCoy in a tier of his own kind of as a, I don't know, tier at the top. Then I have a tier of, I thought you would be a first rounder, that would be Hood, who I've always liked, which is like in a good way, like a Chiefs Raven style corner, who I like have a soft spot for those kind of guys. Terrell a corner and then Parker who, I mean, if Ruben Bain would have been the most likely pick to the Bengals at 10, Parker is kind of very top of the second round Ruben Bain. So at least something you consider, especially with how much your fourth defensive end would play. After that, and I might like be a bit different than you here, my next tier is Trade in Suits, who's like, I just love Trade in Suits, and D'Angelo Pond's true day one plug and play slot corners. Because of the value, I see with them contributing immediately plus underrated versatility. After that, I'm just too like good, nice, meaty second round guys, CJ Allen, a linebacker, three, Allen, Gabe Yocasa, an edge from Illinois, and then Rodriguez, who we all love from Texas Tech, the linebacker, and it goes on after that. But that's how I view the top of the second round.

Speaker 1:
[15:39] Yeah, it does feel like it fell nicely for them, and then we see all the trades. So maybe the most likely scenario would be a trade back and pick at this point. I might even call that more likely than not, just knowing that they're probably gonna wanna do it. So we'll see how that ends up playing out.

Speaker 2:
[15:55] Let me mention one more thing.

Speaker 1:
[15:56] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[15:56] The big thing to watch tomorrow too is the next tackle on the board is Caleb Tiernan out of Northwestern. Watch tomorrow, when does the next tackle go?

Speaker 1:
[16:04] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[16:04] And then there's a run on tackles, that's when you start having to adjust your round three strategy because you can't get left out on day two with all the good tackles gone. If they survive, then you can wait till round four for that.

Speaker 1:
[16:18] Yeah. That is what we've pinpointed that on Friday, is when will that happen? Because there's four of them, maybe five that you could probably talk yourself into. Again, I've been talking about Mark Halbel for a long time, that type of player, Tiernan, a couple other guys in that mix that they've brought in, that they've looked at, Austin Barber from Florida, that will be in that mix there. That and then what happens at Linebacker, to me, whoever isn't the position addressed with the second and third round pick, on Saturday night, when we do The Walkout, we're gonna be talking about who's available in free agency, who can they go get now to supplement, because it's gonna feel like a pretty big hole if you're trying to plug it with a fourth round guy or God forbid, one of your sixth or seventh rounders, which you can't really imagine that being the case. At some point, that's where this goes next after this draft. We'll see what position that is. It could be Linebacker.

Speaker 2:
[17:13] One thing on Linebacker, like Alan Rodriguez, Golde very much in play around too. If you end up in round three, the question is, would it just be better to get a true, I call it weak side platoon player, as opposed to trying to force a flawed, I guess you could start on every downs, on every down. Do you go for a guy who maybe he could be a not great, but fine starter, or do you just try to in round three, if you're going Linebacker there, go for, he can be an elite role player. That's an interesting decision and dilemma to go with, as you try to adjust Linebacker, if you don't get it done in round two.

Speaker 1:
[17:50] Aneen, you've mentioned a lot, I've mentioned a lot, Jayshon Barham, who's somebody who could certainly be in that mix for Michigan, who's that combo edge outside Linebacker type, more of a, he can be the two birds with one stone type of player that maybe you see them try to do both. Either way, they didn't trade back into one, which made me happy, it made all of us happy, but a really fascinating day too. Going to be one of the most important days of the off season for the Bengals. Not the most important day, that one has definitely happened no matter what they do tomorrow. But one of the most important days, look for them to try to add a pick in round four if they can. If not, first thing you're doing is saying, when does McCoy go off the board because if he's still there at 41, that will be a fascinating decision to see if they go for it. I don't know. My gut says they will, but who knows. Outside of that, seemed to be a fun night still ahead of the stadium. A lot of fans here in the house. I got to see Sam Hubbard who was back in town for a little bit. We talked about sexy Dexie dance happening. Dexter Lawrence was here. All of the free agents came in for the party. So because there wasn't a pick to be had, there still was plenty of stuff there. Ryan Cook and everybody else in the free agent class showing up for this to greet the fans. So a fun night down here despite nothing really happening. But things will be happening back with The Walkout tomorrow. Hope to have Jay back. Jay a little under the weather tonight. Hopefully be better. And then we'll have Saturday night, same thing, recapping the entire day three. And then we hope to see you. We're going to have the live stream happening on Sunday night, eight o'clock. Come over to the YouTube channel. You got questions. We got thoughts. All of those will mix together in a lovely way, I'm pretty sure. So we hope to see you there. Set your clocks on that one. And then we'll be talking to Bengals Director of College, Scouting Mike Potts, early next week. Look for that in your feeds. All the things that you love from draft coverage. And now we'll actually have picks to talk about too. So looking forward to that. All right, Charlie, appreciate you finish hitting. Great to have everybody in here with us tonight. Draft starts tomorrow. Can't wait to talk to you then. Have a good one.