transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:18] Buongiorno, that's How Long Gone. Jason, I'm in Milan. It was a beautiful day today. I really got my steps in, as they say. What's up with you?

Speaker 2:
[00:26] Ciao, Chris, ciao, Chris. How many steps did you take in Italian, please? Not in the traditional Imperial measurement system. I need kilometers or meters, please.

Speaker 1:
[00:36] I apologize, I can't do that.

Speaker 2:
[00:38] You can change the setting in your health app, just let you know.

Speaker 1:
[00:40] Oh, shit, okay, well, I'll do that later. Yesterday, I did touch 20, which is pretty extreme. I feel like I didn't feel great.

Speaker 2:
[00:47] 20,000 steps.

Speaker 1:
[00:49] Yeah, I didn't feel great.

Speaker 2:
[00:50] We've had, I feel like, I mean, it's not like a broken record, but the question of footwear does come to mind. I know you travel internationally, you walk a lot. Is this another day spent with sockless penny loafers chewing up those cracker ass heels of yours?

Speaker 1:
[01:05] Nah, my heels look good, bro.

Speaker 2:
[01:07] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. For listeners at home, Chris' heels are on fleek.

Speaker 1:
[01:12] You know I get pedicures, you know I get pedicures. Don't put me on blasty like that.

Speaker 2:
[01:15] J, butter, zout, coconut oil on the face, on the dick, and on the heels.

Speaker 1:
[01:21] Everywhere. I don't, I actually.

Speaker 2:
[01:23] Baby feet, baby face, baby dick. You were saying something?

Speaker 1:
[01:27] I can't, I don't even know. Yeah, I was wearing-

Speaker 2:
[01:30] Okay, 20,000 steps because you had to look at all the men's wear because you're there for-

Speaker 1:
[01:34] No, this is not clothing related at all. This is Salone, baby. This is looking at furniture and gay guys. This is totally different. No clothes at all.

Speaker 2:
[01:41] Okay, this has nothing to do with fashion, guys. This is gay guys stuff, okay?

Speaker 1:
[01:45] Michael Scanlon described it as looking at corners that hot gay guys designed, and he's exactly right. I went to look at- In corners. Yesterday, I went to one of the most beautiful apartments I've ever been in to celebrate Michael Bargo collaborating with Eve Solomon on some fucking, this guy made fur like mink tablecloths and rugs. It's amazing. But that's what I'm dealing with here is what I'm saying. We're looking at mink tablecloths.

Speaker 2:
[02:09] So it's a bunch of unemployed people looking at interiors and then you have a dinner?

Speaker 1:
[02:14] No, no, that's the thing. It's a bunch of rich people that seem unemployed, but they're all gay and hot. That's the confusing-

Speaker 2:
[02:21] No, no, I was talking about you.

Speaker 1:
[02:23] Oh, no, I think most people are employed in the interiors industry, which is relatively booming. Me, yes. Yes, there are other people like me as well. Yeah, there are other people like me.

Speaker 2:
[02:33] No, but I mean, you're a part of the media, the glitterati.

Speaker 1:
[02:38] Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
[02:39] Yeah, totally. Come on, Chris, you're a little glittery. I mean, you're not the most, but you're shining.

Speaker 1:
[02:44] No, but it was a fun, I mean, it's great. There's just too many people here. It's fucking crazy. It's like, you know how, it's like anything else in these cities, something starts really going, and then every brand wants to get involved, and then it's like, wait, we don't have the infrastructure for this really. And you know how Italian people are, they're stressed out.

Speaker 2:
[02:59] I mean, we're coming off the heels of Adam Scott Coachella. I know all about it, a small town not being able to handle the infrastructure and influx of hundreds of thousands of people descending down to look at these queer little corners and these mink coasters.

Speaker 1:
[03:15] It's not, it doesn't, it like literally, it's honestly kind of, I mean, it's okay if you get around by bike, this is the kind of thing where you look at something on a map and it's like 35 minutes by foot, 40 minutes by car, 10 minutes by bike. Like, that's literally the vibe, you know what I mean? So it's like.

Speaker 2:
[03:29] Okay, so Manhattan, you must feel just right at home.

Speaker 1:
[03:32] Well, I'm fine because I'm able to line, but Alex cannot ride a bike. So it's, and it would be, it would probably be the best idea no matter what. So I'm sort of like, if I'm with her, I gotta hoof it, or I gotta fucking sit in an Uber and argue with some guy because he's clearly taking me the wrong way. You know what I mean? To get a little extra money out of me, out of this little tourist ass.

Speaker 2:
[03:52] He loves when Salone comes. Yeah. All these little twunks coming through. They don't know they're east from their west.

Speaker 1:
[03:58] Literally. So anyway, but yeah, it's been good, honestly. It's been, the weather's been so nice that it makes a big difference.

Speaker 2:
[04:03] 2026, I'm gonna hire your guys as celebrity hypnotists, and we're gonna hypnotize Alex into becoming a expert cyclist.

Speaker 1:
[04:14] I think she would learn in the right setting. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[04:17] And over her feet, what is the right setting exactly?

Speaker 1:
[04:19] Not a major-

Speaker 2:
[04:20] Like an Hermes activation?

Speaker 1:
[04:21] No, I'm saying not a major metropolitan area where other people are. I think maybe like-

Speaker 2:
[04:26] An empty parking lot on a Sunday.

Speaker 1:
[04:27] Dirt road in the south. You know what I mean? Like the way, yeah, the way that your dad taught you to drive a stick type shit.

Speaker 2:
[04:33] The way where you learned how to ride a Harley Davidson right by my house in Glendale.

Speaker 1:
[04:37] Exactly. When I, what do they call it? When you-

Speaker 2:
[04:40] Lay her down?

Speaker 1:
[04:40] I laid it down.

Speaker 2:
[04:41] You laid her down?

Speaker 1:
[04:41] No, I didn't. No, I didn't lay her down. I didn't lay her down. I wish I would have laid her down because it is fun to say. I wish I did, but it was fun to say.

Speaker 2:
[04:47] But I mean, it would be cool because also since you have such good core strength and your hip glute activation is so dope, even if you laid a Harley down, you could probably pick it up. It's not even a big deal.

Speaker 1:
[04:59] Oh, no, totally. I wouldn't even notice. Yeah, it would be, I would just keep on going. Besides the rug rash, I would just keep on going. No problem for me.

Speaker 2:
[05:06] That'll buff out, that'll buff out. Yeah, I mean, I noticed a little bit on social media. I mean, we're coming off a couple days off the 420 hangover, but I feel like, you know how we've been talking about, people don't care about holidays anymore. Easter comes and goes, and people are like, what the, I don't give a shit. The fake holidays that we create, like a 420 to celebrate something, people are even kinda all set on celebrating that, it seems, right? I didn't see anything.

Speaker 1:
[05:34] 420 was quiet, it was quiet this year. And I follow Wiz Khalifa, and it was still quiet. So if you know-

Speaker 2:
[05:40] You follow the loudest account on social media, it's still quiet.

Speaker 1:
[05:43] I follow the pack, I follow the human pack, and I still, yeah, it does feel quiet. It does feel quiet this year.

Speaker 2:
[05:48] Speaking of the pack or the packet, there's a lot of memes and discoursing.

Speaker 1:
[05:53] Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:
[05:54] Quote unquote, ain't nobody said none about 420 this year. Y'all must be on powder.

Speaker 1:
[06:01] On the powder, yeah, and I believe, well, I believe in this case.

Speaker 2:
[06:04] Powders are trending, right?

Speaker 1:
[06:05] Powder, well, powder encompasses so many things. That's the thing. Weed is strictly, we, you know, weed to me in the 420 cents means packing a bowl and smoking it, you know what I mean? Obviously, edibles are included, THC beverages, et cetera, but we don't really, whereas powder, we're talking cocaine, meth, ketamine. I mean, what, crushed up pills, talent.

Speaker 2:
[06:24] Not a communal activity. We don't go to the park and all, you know, grab lunch and a 12 pack and pull out the fucking spoon unless we're on the Drake Iceman frozen exhibition.

Speaker 1:
[06:36] Iceman coming soon. Iceman coming soon. But yeah, it's true. That is true. It does feel a little more, it feels less easy to celebrate together, I guess. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:
[06:45] Well, yeah, once you light that spoon up, you're not necessarily pulling out the frisbee with the gang.

Speaker 1:
[06:50] You ain't circling up the homies to pass the needle around after you, after you load it up.

Speaker 2:
[06:54] I'm gonna smoke some fentanyl on a bus and then I taught my dog a new trick.

Speaker 1:
[06:59] Yeah, there's no hula hooping over there when that's going down. That doesn't really work that way.

Speaker 2:
[07:05] You do one hula hoop and then you kind of stop. It's just kind of like a, it's a hula hoop fentlene. Wow, that's actually my thesis at art school.

Speaker 1:
[07:14] You gotta take a break.

Speaker 2:
[07:15] I take photos of people on a fentlene and I paint hula hoops on them.

Speaker 1:
[07:18] That's not a bad idea.

Speaker 2:
[07:18] Sort of like restructuring.

Speaker 1:
[07:20] That's not a bad idea. Give them something to do.

Speaker 2:
[07:21] Our mindset.

Speaker 1:
[07:22] What is it, what do you saw also that the UK has now banned anyone born, did you see this? Basically, you can't buy cigarettes or vapes legally ever.

Speaker 2:
[07:33] They cut it off.

Speaker 1:
[07:33] If you were born after 2008 or something or 2009.

Speaker 2:
[07:36] Kind of crazy.

Speaker 1:
[07:37] It's very crazy. I mean, it's obviously not a big deal because I'm in Italy, wherever you can buy cigarettes as a baby. So has it really, the news, has it hit here super hard? Mama. But it is, that is a f-

Speaker 2:
[07:49] Babaki, mama.

Speaker 1:
[07:50] That is an insane, that is an insane thing to do. Like that is actually an insane thing to do.

Speaker 2:
[07:56] I mean, I think it's smart because there's truly no other way to do it than to do this, right? You have to, it reminds me of like, you know, like one of David Cho's NASA movies where like, if you want us to like survive, we're going to have to like cut off this like wing. Yeah. There were like two people in there and they were like too crazy and they didn't do the oxygen thing. And now we got to cut them off. Like, like by y'all, like everyone, like we're on the ship, we're all going to die from lung cancer and you can't, but there's no way, like people love to vape and smoke so much, especially young people, like they're just going to 3D print their own fucking shit. You know, like they're-

Speaker 1:
[08:33] If you're in the UK and you want to smoke a cigarette, you can go into your nan's cabinet and get a Winston, or you, or you, it's going to be old school where you stand outside of the Tesco and hand it, get somebody, you know, give somebody a 10. They spend five on a, on a pack and give you, you know, they keep five. It's going to be old school.

Speaker 2:
[08:48] Are you my dad? And now it's going to be like, can you buy me a, a case of-

Speaker 1:
[08:53] Yeah, it's not quite the same. It's like when, when Tim, anybody goes to Japan, Tim makes them bring back a case of his cigarettes, the Paws cigarettes, which, which are beautiful. But he, it's, it's, he's really rich in those now, because if you ask people like, sure, it's the same thing. It's the same thing if you stand outside the, the tobacco store.

Speaker 2:
[09:11] But I mean, once we, once we prohibit, prohibit, you know, vaping and cigarettes, it's just going to create, you know, 11,000 black markets and, you know, cartels will win again.

Speaker 1:
[09:22] I mean, that's what I, I look at this as a cartel play. I think there's, I think there's somehow involved in this.

Speaker 2:
[09:27] They're pulling- Patrick Radden-Keefe already has his outline written for this story that will happen in seven years.

Speaker 1:
[09:32] Do you remember in 2026 when they banned cigarettes? But it is, it is a crazy precedent to set, but I think you make a good point. It's like, well, you're either going to die or if to amputate your leg, which one do you want to do? You know what I mean? So you gotta, you gotta take the leg off if you want to live.

Speaker 2:
[09:46] They know that there's no way to control it other than full abolition of it. And you gotta, it's, I mean, it's kind of smart because at a certain point, I guess, you gotta make a decision or not.

Speaker 1:
[09:58] Well, the question is, is it going to affect pint sales? You know what I mean? Because if you can't have a fag in a pint, what's the point? You know what I mean? What's the point of life? What's the point of this job? What's the whole thing? That's the, it could get darker.

Speaker 2:
[10:08] That's a nice little segue into our guest today who has put down the pint of Guinness and picked up the pint of Van Lewin. I think he mentioned, was it that or something else? But bringing the pints out means ice cream now more so than the Boddingtons with the lads. But we have a guest today. He's a friend of mine from Instagram that we started chatting a few years ago, and we've never really met or spoken, but he has a book to entertain instructions for a dinner party. And so far, it's a great book. It's the kind of book that I would write if I were to write a cookbook, it's a lot of his personality and cool little stories and philosophies.

Speaker 1:
[10:51] The personality is actually what turned me off. I was just there for the recipes. It was all the stories that kind of got me.

Speaker 2:
[10:56] You love his simple storytelling with his recipes, right?

Speaker 1:
[10:59] I've had Jago's food actually, and I love it. It's delicious. He cooked at Izzy's house one night. I've actually sampled the food. It was delicious. And he seemed a little messy, but we'll talk about his station.

Speaker 2:
[11:10] Yeah, he's the type of chef where you want him to have a large heavy towel, not a small kitchen towel, and it's sort of wet with the fats of geese and pheasant and liver and lamb, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[11:23] He's killing birds we ain't heard of yet. All right, let's give him a call. Let's give him a call. This episode of How Long Gone was brought to you by Factor.

Speaker 2:
[11:31] Chris, I'm hungry.

Speaker 1:
[11:33] Jason, for me, eating healthy isn't a willpower problem. It's a setup problem. Thank God for Factor. With Factor, I'm hitting my nutrition goals this season without the planning, no grocery store runs, or definitely no motherfucking cooking, that's for sure.

Speaker 2:
[11:47] Yeah, and also that nice third thing where you sort of use a food delivery service to bring a bacon, egg, and cheese that was made somewhere in a factory in a different country for about $17, when you could just have some great healthy options in your fridge slash pantry. Thanks to our friends at Factor.

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Speaker 2:
[12:17] Chris, I like Asian, but I don't eat rice. Are there GLP-1 supported protein pack meals?

Speaker 1:
[12:22] Come on, bro. For strength and workout recovery, check out Factor's Muscle Pro Collection. You already know I'm tapped the fuck in.

Speaker 2:
[12:32] Oh shit.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[12:57] 50 off that miso edamame bowl. Sign me up.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[13:13] Websites are the future.

Speaker 1:
[13:14] Thank God for Squarespace. Jason, what can you do with Squarespace? Tell me what I can do as an independent content creator on the Squarespace platform. What can I do?

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[14:32] What happened to your nose?

Speaker 2:
[14:33] No, it's a little nose strip that I use. I have a deviated septum. So when I'm working out-

Speaker 1:
[14:39] He's got a deviated septum. This is the shit chicks say to get a nose job on the low. And Jason, I think Jason's going to come back one day and the schnoz is going to be just a little bit smaller.

Speaker 2:
[14:49] I'm one of the more nasally people on planet Earth right now. I need this more than most people. This is me sort of-

Speaker 3:
[14:56] This is you de-nasaled.

Speaker 2:
[15:00] I do need to get the surgery, but I've had sinus and nasal issues my whole entire life, but it basically helps me breathe as if a normal person would be breathing instead of somebody who's handicapped like me.

Speaker 3:
[15:12] I'm sorry that you like that.

Speaker 2:
[15:17] Did you say, I'm sorry that you like that?

Speaker 3:
[15:20] Yeah, it sounds so good.

Speaker 1:
[15:22] I got to be honest with you, you look like you might snore.

Speaker 3:
[15:24] I snore fucking so much. My partner, my partner wears earplugs. No, I'm terrible. I'm like a pig.

Speaker 1:
[15:32] You're saying she's strapped up with special earplugs wherever you go, because she knows daddy's going to be sawing logs.

Speaker 3:
[15:38] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[15:39] Are you oinking a little bit too with the snore? Is it a pig-like snore?

Speaker 3:
[15:43] I don't know. It's more like maybe like how you would imagine like a wild boar. I don't know because I don't hear it. She did once record it for me and that was horrible.

Speaker 1:
[15:51] Sure.

Speaker 2:
[15:52] You're snoring like a stuck boar.

Speaker 1:
[15:54] You have to do, because alcoholics classically, someone in your life will film you at your worst and show you the video later. That's happened. I think it's time to do that.

Speaker 2:
[16:04] He's like, I have a folder on my phone actually of those.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] I think it's time to do that with snoring for you. Just to know what you're working with. How bad is it? Do I need a-

Speaker 2:
[16:12] Snore prevention.

Speaker 1:
[16:13] Do I need a CPAC machine? How bad is it?

Speaker 3:
[16:16] It's bad. I've done it. I'm just choosing not to remember because I think it would be too harrowing for me to dwell on. I wouldn't be able to go to sleep.

Speaker 2:
[16:26] Yeah. That's why I disassociate too. Yeah. Do you have acid reflux? I know that you don't drink anymore, right?

Speaker 3:
[16:33] No.

Speaker 2:
[16:34] But you still eat a lot of pheasants, so you must have some acidity.

Speaker 3:
[16:38] Yeah. This is true. I have acid reflux as well. I've got a little thing of renny's, which are like, I guess, like Tums. I don't know what you have.

Speaker 1:
[16:49] Okay, sure.

Speaker 2:
[16:49] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[16:50] The little chalky tablets next to the beds. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[16:53] Hey, nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1:
[16:55] I like that. That's your blue chew. You got the renny's next to the... All right. What are the renny's? Are they pink? Are they multicolored, the way Tums can be? Are they just...

Speaker 3:
[17:03] No.

Speaker 2:
[17:04] The blues are five, the pinks are 20.

Speaker 3:
[17:09] We are a less joyous place. So they're like one color. If they're mint, they're white. But I actually have orange ones because it's like having a little orange candy in the night, like having a Fanta.

Speaker 1:
[17:20] Yeah, that's nice. You guys love Fanta. George was telling us that Fanta in the UK is just different. And I don't really understand what he means by that.

Speaker 3:
[17:27] Well, it's worse now.

Speaker 2:
[17:28] Like a Mexican Coke.

Speaker 3:
[17:29] It used to, I mean, because we have a sugar tax here, so all our fizzy drinks, fizzy drinks, soda pops, whatever you call them.

Speaker 1:
[17:37] Okay, relax, bro. It's not the 1950s. We call them Coca-Cola like men is what we call them. No matter what the drink is, it's a Coke.

Speaker 3:
[17:44] What it is. No matter what it is.

Speaker 1:
[17:48] Yeah, it's just Coca-Cola. It could be Pepsi, it could be Mountain Dew, it could be Dr. Pepper is Coke.

Speaker 2:
[17:53] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[17:53] Okay, your Coca-Colas have more sugar in them. In our country, they banned putting sugar in drinks, and so everyone took them out and they taste weird. Apart from an original Coke, which has the original recipe, but it's more expensive than any of the others.

Speaker 1:
[18:08] Oh, really? So the good shit costs more?

Speaker 3:
[18:11] It's a tax. It's a sugar tax.

Speaker 2:
[18:13] We're willing to pay, but it's better to have sugar than, I mean, we need a high fructose corn syrup tax more than we need a sugar tax, but that's a whole other podcast.

Speaker 3:
[18:21] That's a geopolitical one right there. And this is life, right?

Speaker 1:
[18:24] We get super geopolitical with it. You know that.

Speaker 2:
[18:27] As it pertains to my food ways.

Speaker 1:
[18:29] Yeah, my Southern food ways. I gotta make sure they're clear.

Speaker 3:
[18:34] I've had you described by two different people as a Southern gentleman.

Speaker 1:
[18:38] Wow, that's nice, actually.

Speaker 3:
[18:39] Two different English people.

Speaker 1:
[18:41] Oh, they're English. That's why.

Speaker 3:
[18:43] Well, are you not a Southern gentleman?

Speaker 1:
[18:45] Look, I would love to think that and so would my mother, but I think other people would maybe use some different descriptors for me.

Speaker 2:
[18:51] No, especially by 2026 terms and standards, you are definitely a Southern gentleman. You will hold a door open for a guy, no matter how hot he is. It doesn't matter. That's right.

Speaker 1:
[19:01] I don't care. Look, I'm an equal opportunity door holder, and I do dole out the yes, sir and yes, ma'am to the point where people are kind of weirded out by it. It's hard to, when it's baked, it's just like hard to shake that. You know what I mean? It's like the whole life.

Speaker 3:
[19:16] Do you call your father your daddy?

Speaker 1:
[19:18] No, I only call my boyfriend that. No, no, my dad.

Speaker 2:
[19:22] He calls him pa.

Speaker 1:
[19:23] No, I don't call him pa.

Speaker 3:
[19:25] Pa.

Speaker 1:
[19:26] No, I call him dad, straight up mom and dad. I don't, I mean, don't get me wrong, in my family, there's some wild shit. There's a meemaw and a peepaw and all that, all that shit. But like, we don't, in the Black House, so we keep it pretty down the middle.

Speaker 2:
[19:39] Yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine what you call him. Daddy or father? Which one is it?

Speaker 1:
[19:44] Yeah, what do you call your dad?

Speaker 3:
[19:45] I call my father my father. Well, yeah, I don't know, I always refer to him in like the third person. His, I don't know, I don't think I've called him dad for like a long, long time.

Speaker 2:
[19:55] But do you say, do you say my father or do you just say father?

Speaker 3:
[20:01] I guess I kind of just like start talking to him. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[20:04] I guess my father's meant to ring round seven, something like that.

Speaker 1:
[20:10] We have actually, we have a great relationship. I just talked to him. It's no big deal actually. I don't have to address him.

Speaker 2:
[20:15] I don't even have a father. So it's all good guys. It's all good. I'm just, I'm feeling out in the dark. I'm exploring the world.

Speaker 3:
[20:24] A deviated septum, no dad.

Speaker 1:
[20:27] Don't feel bad for him. If he was five, eight and had a loving dad, he'd be worse off.

Speaker 2:
[20:30] So he's no dad, deviated septum, big dick, big bank account, no acts.

Speaker 1:
[20:40] He's even got a Mercedes Benz. He's even got a Mercedes Benz. I don't want to call.

Speaker 2:
[20:44] Yeah, I got a Benz and a Porsche in the parking lot, deviated septum, hair on fleek, nails on fleek.

Speaker 3:
[20:50] It looks like you're checking notes about how many cars you have on the video. You keep looking.

Speaker 1:
[20:54] He does. He keeps, he keeps his affirmation, his affirmation journal in front of him.

Speaker 2:
[21:03] I washed my beautiful car today.

Speaker 1:
[21:06] That's okay. So you, what do you call your mom? Mom or mother?

Speaker 3:
[21:10] I call my mother my mommy to her when I address her, I call her mommy. I just like, I don't know. It's like an English posh thing, I guess.

Speaker 1:
[21:17] It is an English, no, for sure.

Speaker 3:
[21:18] And then when I refer to her in the third person, I call her my mother.

Speaker 1:
[21:23] Yeah. I think British mother father feels very appropriate, whereas for some other people, it doesn't feel quite as appropriate.

Speaker 3:
[21:31] It's weird. I mean, I try not to refer to her as much as possible. I mean.

Speaker 1:
[21:35] Sure. Do they think you're a freak or they on board with this whole thing?

Speaker 3:
[21:40] I think they're pretty proud of me, actually. It's nice. They're very supportive. I'm doing okay. I got a book.

Speaker 1:
[21:46] I think they should be. I just didn't know. Do you think I'm a freak? Look, I love you. I'm saying that sometimes parents have a vision for their child, and when they don't do what they expected, no matter how successful they are, it's a little bit of, oh, that's nice.

Speaker 3:
[22:01] I could have become a lawyer, I guess, and maybe they'd be happier with that.

Speaker 2:
[22:04] They would like it maybe more if your book did not have the word cook in front of it.

Speaker 3:
[22:09] That's funny. It's like a proper novel.

Speaker 2:
[22:15] Yeah, a novel for the ages.

Speaker 3:
[22:17] I think I care about that. I think I'm self-conscious that my book has the word cook in front of it.

Speaker 1:
[22:22] Well, the thing with that is though, everyone tells me the only books that sell are fucking cookbooks. So it sounds like you're the next Alison Roman. You get your shit together.

Speaker 3:
[22:30] In the show.

Speaker 2:
[22:30] I wouldn't call this a cookbook though. I wouldn't call this a cookbook. I would say it is Jago's guide to life with some lamb recipes.

Speaker 1:
[22:39] But I'm saying to you that classifying it as a cookbook, is a recipe for success, no pun intended. Chart it sales-wise. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2:
[22:47] New name for our food podcast, Chris.

Speaker 1:
[22:50] I'm saying that the only people I know that have made money that aren't famous writers.

Speaker 3:
[22:55] No, no, it's completely true.

Speaker 1:
[22:56] Are cookbook authors, like off of published books, is what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 3:
[23:00] It's very true. And I think I was listening, I was thinking about, you know, there's this thing where they talk about your president and how the ATC was always upset that like New York kite society didn't take him seriously. I feel like that at the moment. I'm like, I keep like being in Vogue and like the ladies' papers and stuff. And I'm like, I want to be in the proper grown up newspaper. Like I want more book reviews.

Speaker 1:
[23:23] So you're saying Vogue is the ladies' newspaper and World of Interiors is the gay newspaper. So you're trying to finally get-

Speaker 2:
[23:30] You have to crawl before you can walk. We're going to need a few L Italia stories about your butter sculptures before we get into how you are a true genius of our time.

Speaker 1:
[23:42] What are you looking for? Let's just talk. If you could look at the camera, talk directly to your publicist, what would you say to them right now?

Speaker 3:
[23:48] But what do I want?

Speaker 1:
[23:49] Yeah, what do you want? New York Times, Financial Times, The Telegraph? What are we talking about?

Speaker 2:
[23:54] What's on your mood board?

Speaker 3:
[23:55] What's on my mood board?

Speaker 2:
[23:56] Have you read The Secret?

Speaker 3:
[23:58] No, tell me about it.

Speaker 2:
[24:00] It's just where you visualize your success. So you know.

Speaker 3:
[24:02] Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
[24:03] Tape a copy of the Financial Times, you know, to your ceiling every morning and you'll get rich kind of thing.

Speaker 3:
[24:10] I think it's also a thing about being English is that when you asked me to say what I wanted, I panicked and I couldn't think of anything because we don't do that. I remember the first time I was like with Americans who were like trying to do stuff in the creative industry, whatever. And they were like, I'm doing this, like I've got this company. And it would be just like an Instagram page with 100 followers. But people are like, what do you do? I'm like, I guess I'd like to write or something because we're modest. Sure.

Speaker 2:
[24:40] Yeah, low expectations, high delivery. I just write, you know, it's, I don't know, it's like something like New York Times bestseller list or whatever. I don't know. I don't keep up with that stuff.

Speaker 3:
[24:51] I was bestselling in etiquette books on Amazon for one brief moment.

Speaker 2:
[24:57] Etiquette books on Amazon, UK?

Speaker 3:
[25:00] Yeah, etiquette books.

Speaker 2:
[25:01] I mean, it has, it does have etiquette.

Speaker 3:
[25:03] I don't have a publisher, so yeah, UK.

Speaker 2:
[25:06] Wait, your voice just changed now.

Speaker 1:
[25:07] Whoa.

Speaker 2:
[25:08] Now you sound normal.

Speaker 3:
[25:09] Okay. Oh, it better?

Speaker 1:
[25:11] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[25:12] Is that good?

Speaker 2:
[25:13] This is, yeah, this is, this is 10 times better.

Speaker 3:
[25:15] Oh, okay. Well, let's keep it like that then. I think they were dying, that's why it was weird. I didn't plug them in before, I was trying to be a professional.

Speaker 1:
[25:23] This happens sometimes when you, when the camera battery is getting low, the flash ain't firing, right? That's a problem.

Speaker 2:
[25:30] We don't want you to do your best, we want you to do our best, okay? So next time you come on, figure it out.

Speaker 1:
[25:36] You're a sweetheart. Why do you think British people can't celebrate their success? Because this is a real thing, and you're having a nice moment right now, and you're not able to pat yourself on the back and celebrate a little.

Speaker 2:
[25:51] Generational trauma, Margaret Thatcher, what do we got?

Speaker 3:
[25:54] I think we're perversely obsessed with failure and terrified of it, and so if you stop celebrating your success, you get worried that it's not going to last, and then everyone's going to laugh at you. Maybe I'm scared that my pants are going to fall down.

Speaker 2:
[26:11] Sure, of course. You don't want to tempt fate if you find the rare moment of success, you don't want to jinx it and have karma.

Speaker 3:
[26:18] Yeah, I was in a meeting with a new potential agent today, and I was having to do a proper hard sell. And I'm like, oh, I did this, I did this. And afterwards, I felt like retching. It was disgusting, like boasting that much.

Speaker 1:
[26:35] I mean, I don't know if it's boasting if you were asked to tell the person who's going to try to make the money, but I see where your head's at. In that case, I think you're wrong, but I know what you mean.

Speaker 2:
[26:46] You had to do your agent's job, but you only have to do it the one time. You have to convince them and they can do it for you on your behalf for years to come, hopefully.

Speaker 3:
[26:54] Exactly. And I'm so excited about that. The thing that I'm most excited about is having someone to be able to do the fucking, being a mercenary and being like, you need to give me money to make you a fucking cake.

Speaker 2:
[27:07] Yes, having a third party for not even negotiations, but just for those little, you know, hey, just, I need the money to buy the food to cook for your wedding. You don't want to do this. You could focus on-

Speaker 1:
[27:21] I'm running super low on flour. If you could kind of bank transfer me, that would be great.

Speaker 2:
[27:26] My radish knife is in the shop.

Speaker 3:
[27:28] So I have to go beg the miller to like, kind of give me some extra flour. It'd be nice if I have someone else do that for me.

Speaker 2:
[27:36] You got a couple of kilos on loan.

Speaker 1:
[27:41] Are you having a night Red Bull?

Speaker 3:
[27:43] Diet.

Speaker 2:
[27:46] To be clear, it's a diet Red Bull, sugar-free.

Speaker 1:
[27:49] It's not diet caffeine.

Speaker 2:
[27:51] It'd be cool if you learn that the thing that keeps you energized from Red Bull is not the sugar, but in fact, the caffeine and taurine. But you're a night owl because having read your book, Chris and I live in America, we're in our 40s. I live in LA where people eat supper at 4:45 PM and are in their pajamas and their red light mask before the sun goes down. You're saying if it's on a Sunday, they'll probably leave around midnight, so you want to make sure the dinner doesn't go down anytime after 9.30 or something like that. Is London and the UK still living on that late time frame, or are you just that young of a person to where you're still having these marathon meals and staying out all night?

Speaker 3:
[28:39] I was younger when I was beginning to write it, and now I'm going to put it at 9, because I'm really busy, and I have my salad dinner. Like, it's like, you know, you have the stoner that you have on the internet where you're like, oh, I fucking cook pigs, and as you said, like, pheasants and birds that we haven't even discovered, which I do sometimes, obviously, but most of the time, I'm eating like brown rice and steamed vegetables and grilled.

Speaker 2:
[29:09] Well, I mean, I think this is an evolution that comes to all of our chefs, you know, 20, 30 years of Bourdain living, you know, by the end of his life, he was, you know, he's in his fifties, he put the knife down, he's, you know, he's making paschetti with butter for his kid. And, but you've already done all of that. And I think young people nowadays have already lived all of their adult life.

Speaker 3:
[29:32] They pre-age.

Speaker 2:
[29:34] Yeah, you're settling in to, you know, the second and third act of your life at 28th.

Speaker 3:
[29:38] Do you think it's sad?

Speaker 2:
[29:40] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:40] I think it's sad, but you're sober, so there's nothing left for you anyway. So it's fine.

Speaker 3:
[29:44] Well, that's what I thought. Like before I got sober and I didn't, I didn't, Chris, you're also sober, aren't you?

Speaker 1:
[29:50] Yeah, yeah. Ten, almost 10 years.

Speaker 3:
[29:52] It's a secret.

Speaker 1:
[29:53] Yeah, it's a big, it's a big secret. Yeah, my life is-

Speaker 2:
[29:55] It only comes up every half an hour on this show.

Speaker 1:
[29:58] Yeah, it's gotten considerably more boring. But I'm saying like, once, yeah, like what are you gonna do after nine o'clock? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3:
[30:05] Well, this is what I feel. I mean, like watch more TV. I don't even own a TV. It's like really-

Speaker 2:
[30:13] So you're gonna chug a bunch of Red Bull and read a book?

Speaker 3:
[30:15] I have to go to a play tonight.

Speaker 1:
[30:18] I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 3:
[30:19] I know. But you know, it will be great. But the Red Bull, I'm just tired and I'm sick and I'm having to do too much work.

Speaker 1:
[30:27] Okay. So when you're saying you're having to do too much work, let's walk us through a day in the life, King. Because I know you guys go to the farmers market or whatever, but what the fuck else do you do?

Speaker 2:
[30:38] Well, he's on a media tour right now, so it's exhausting. They pay you for the press, not for the book.

Speaker 1:
[30:44] I think it's a combo of both. And I want to see what it's looking like because I feel like you're going to have a freaky little schedule for us.

Speaker 3:
[30:51] So, okay, let's do yesterday.

Speaker 1:
[30:54] Great.

Speaker 3:
[30:55] But then when I say it, it doesn't actually even sound like very much. And I'm like, oh, I'm really lazy.

Speaker 1:
[31:00] Bro, I was complaining about, I'm in Milan and I'm tired from walking around all day looking at-

Speaker 2:
[31:03] Chris is exhausted from checking out bathrooms. You're like, trying to finish an essay about octopus.

Speaker 1:
[31:10] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[31:11] Exactly. Which I don't eat because it's too clever.

Speaker 2:
[31:13] And I'm trying to edit out the racist jokes on this show. We all have jobs to do, guys. We all have jobs to do.

Speaker 1:
[31:19] Everybody's got a cross to bear. All right. So you're saying, all right, yesterday in your life, what are we looking at?

Speaker 3:
[31:25] Yes, sir. I did a podcast in the morning. I answered some e-mails.

Speaker 2:
[31:31] Damn, this is, you're living my exact life. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[31:35] I made a chicken soup with a really nut, with like a peanut kind of base. It was delicious, actually.

Speaker 1:
[31:43] Hold on, you put-

Speaker 2:
[31:43] Peanut base?

Speaker 1:
[31:44] Peanut base? What the hell are you talking about?

Speaker 3:
[31:46] I just put some peanut in there, as well as what's the Thai spice where it's like? Massaman. Hold on.

Speaker 2:
[31:53] You put it, is it peanut butter or do you just throw loose peanuts into chicken broth?

Speaker 3:
[31:59] What do you think?

Speaker 1:
[32:00] I honestly don't know. Do you crush them up?

Speaker 2:
[32:02] At this point with you, honey, I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[32:05] Yeah, peanut butter. I used the smooth peanut butter. I used-

Speaker 1:
[32:08] I was hoping when you took off one of your Demila mucer boots and fucking smashed the peanuts on the- You know, I sprinkled them in a little bit.

Speaker 3:
[32:16] I did take them from the ground.

Speaker 2:
[32:18] Okay, you were thinking like a Thai satay, Southeast Asian kind of thing going on. You weren't just like blackout and just like, maybe I put peanut butter in the soup.

Speaker 3:
[32:28] It looked like a fucking insane person. You know, like it's a Massaman curry. It was like a bastardized version of the Massaman curry, like a peanut soup. I made that. There was something stressful, it's not in my diary, so I can't remember what it was. Then I had to cycle across London to Clapham, which took a while.

Speaker 1:
[32:49] Not Clapham.

Speaker 3:
[32:50] Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, because it got famous recently for having all those, it's funny, because it's like one of the fanciest parts of London, but apparently overrun by these gangs.

Speaker 2:
[33:00] If you can't Clapham, join them, as they say.

Speaker 3:
[33:02] That's what I always say.

Speaker 2:
[33:03] Okay, you rode the bike to, was it your own bicycle, vintage and rustic, or was it an electric line?

Speaker 3:
[33:11] The latter. I'm a man of my times. People think I'm like some kind of fucking, people are always like, oh, you're dressing, I always wear a fucking T-shirt. Everyone is mean and like-

Speaker 1:
[33:21] No, bro, you're giving a guy, you're giving a guy who cooks by candlelight and you know it. You don't even say that.

Speaker 2:
[33:26] You create a visual aesthetic.

Speaker 1:
[33:27] I know you guys have electricity because you're podcasting right now, but otherwise, I wouldn't be sure.

Speaker 3:
[33:32] I had to actually borrow a generator. All right.

Speaker 1:
[33:38] So you biked all the way to Clapham. What was in Clapham?

Speaker 3:
[33:41] I had to take a phone call, but it was just before I was meeting a chef at a place where a really great restaurant called Crispin. I was at a museum called Studio Voltaire. Next week, I'm cooking a big dinner for my book there. I was doing a site visit. I had to have a phone call with my friend Zoe in New York, first of all, had the site visit. Then I went to the library. I met my friend Isaac. Then I had to cycle. I went to a birthday party for this restaurant, Clipstone. Then I went home. But when I tell you that, it sounds like a-

Speaker 1:
[34:13] No, that's a long day. No, that's a-

Speaker 3:
[34:15] It sounds like someone's day off.

Speaker 1:
[34:17] No, that's a long day.

Speaker 2:
[34:17] It sounds like a beautiful summer day of a student. Rode my bike to the park, hung out with Lucy.

Speaker 1:
[34:23] I talked to Zoe for a while on the phone. She's doing okay.

Speaker 3:
[34:26] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[34:27] Bro, your life is a Bill and Sebastian song, head-ass boy.

Speaker 1:
[34:30] Dead-ass, dead-ass.

Speaker 3:
[34:31] Dead-ass Bill and Sebastian.

Speaker 1:
[34:34] Was Zoe going through it or did she just need to catch up with her? Were you providing council?

Speaker 3:
[34:39] It was about a shoot we're doing for an important French fashion magazine. It wasn't, it wasn't just cat-chatting.

Speaker 1:
[34:47] So, all right, so when Zoe calls you for the important French magazine shoot, you're bringing to the table some food.

Speaker 3:
[34:53] Yeah. In this case.

Speaker 2:
[34:55] I bring food to the table.

Speaker 3:
[34:56] I bring food to the table.

Speaker 1:
[34:59] I just wanted to make sure there wasn't-

Speaker 2:
[35:00] What do you do for a living? I bring food to the table.

Speaker 3:
[35:02] No, well, I'm not actually, no, for this one, I'm being profiled by the Magnean, so I'm being photographed. I will do some things. It's about me.

Speaker 1:
[35:09] As it should be. As it should be. So, all right. So, okay. No, that's a pretty full day. I mean, that doesn't, to be fair, I mean, you're not working in the mines, but that doesn't necessarily sound any different than Jason and I's days, depending on what we're looking at.

Speaker 3:
[35:22] It's what success looks like now. Basically, it's like going and meeting someone and having lunch somewhere, and then going somewhere else and having a coffee or a juice.

Speaker 1:
[35:31] This is what happens though. I'm in Milan, and I'm feeling unmoored. Because if you're out all day, I start to feel crazy because I haven't had laptop time. I feel like I need two hours in front of the computer to feel grounded, just to feel like I know what's going on.

Speaker 3:
[35:43] You're like sucking your thumb with one hand.

Speaker 1:
[35:46] I've already got my two front teeth are sticking out. I'm sucking my thumb so much.

Speaker 2:
[35:50] He needs his Twitter baba or else he gets angry.

Speaker 1:
[35:52] Not even that. The social media stuff, I'm happy doing my phone. I literally feel like I can look at an email on my phone, and it doesn't register in the same way as it does on my computer.

Speaker 3:
[36:02] I can't do email on my phone.

Speaker 1:
[36:03] Yeah. I mean, I do obviously in a pinch, but if I'm really-

Speaker 2:
[36:07] It's undignified to type an email with your little thumbs. Yeah, with your thumbs. Wouldn't it be better if the English government decided, if you're born after 2009, you have to email on the medium screen. It can't be the small screen or the big screen. What do you think?

Speaker 1:
[36:23] That's a nice idea.

Speaker 3:
[36:24] I think that's a great idea. I also don't know what the big screen is.

Speaker 2:
[36:29] There's your television, your computer and your phone.

Speaker 3:
[36:32] People email on that TV?

Speaker 2:
[36:37] No, not really. But it would be more of a reference to people will say like, I leave my job on the medium screen. I can't wait to leave my medium screen and go to my big screen.

Speaker 3:
[36:47] I'm sorry. I thought it was the thing I'd missed.

Speaker 1:
[36:50] You don't have a TV though because you're such an anarchist or because you don't watch Love Island?

Speaker 3:
[36:54] No, actually, my cousin was on Love Island.

Speaker 1:
[36:59] Jason, we're back with our blue chip podcast sponsor, Better Help. Jason, you know that I deal with some financial stress and that will affect far more than just my bank account. It can take a serious toll on mental health, my relationships, and I'm not alone, Jason. Don't smile, Alex, you fucking bitch. 88% of Americans are feeling some form of financial stress.

Speaker 2:
[37:20] I don't even have to make a joke. Your wife's there to do it for me. Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[37:24] Jason says thank you. 88% of Americans are feeling some sort of financial stress at the start of 2026. Money worries often bring anxiety, sleep disruption, even depression, and are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. Oh hell, now this month, we want to normalize the emotional weight of financial stress and remind people that struggling with money doesn't mean they've failed. Sometimes it's just about assessing the right kind of support.

Speaker 2:
[37:46] Yeah, I mean, talking about it, breaking that seal is how you do it. Let's say, you know, we're not talking about financial stress of a house or a baby or something else. Maybe you got a COVID dog, and now, you know, five years later, that dog ate some of your underwear, pull that shit out, it's going to be about $17,000. You know, we need to talk to BetterHelp right now because some decisions are going to have to get made. And a third party is a great person to do that with. BetterHelp has the world's largest online therapy platform. If you don't like your therapist or if you think that they don't have your best interests in mind, and maybe they think they side with your partner on this issue, feel free to flush them down and pick a new one with our good friends at BetterHelp.

Speaker 1:
[38:29] When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up to get Timberson off at betterhelp.com/howlong, that's better help.com/howlong. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to us by our friends at Dart Collective. I think we can all agree that wedding music is typically quite lame, cheesy, and it doesn't represent the bride and groom's personal music taste. Luckily, Dart works with actual musicians and artists, many of whom have their own productive careers or tour in bands you've heard of. Everyone from Leon Bridges to Taylor Swift. Dart DJs use vinyl and are cool in a way that your peers would be, not a dated Carnival Cruise performer. They even have an in-house stylist to make sure all personnel look perfect on the day. Dart travels all over the world for events from Morocco to Italy, Greece, and the Maldives. Dart has done huge celebrity events and also intimate ones.

Speaker 2:
[39:20] Yeah, Chris, I am personally friends with Michael from Dart and I have worked with them for years. I think the last time I did a big one, we did the Sweet Green wedding. They set up a beautiful booth for the ceremony, just some cocktail music, some vinyl, some cool vibes. And then they set up a whole big tent with a crazy bump in sound system for me to play in later. These guys are great. A lot of people always ask me like, hey, do cool wedding DJs exist? Do cool event people exist? The cool part about Dart is they'll work with people like me to come and DJ your party as well as provide all the gear and all the consulting and all that stuff. So if you don't know who to hire for your event, Dart Collective is the one. Dart, just like throwing a Dart, dash collective.com. And ask for Mike, his email address is michael.dartcollective.com. Tell them we sent you. So if you have an event coming up this summer, Dart Collective is where you go.

Speaker 3:
[40:28] On Love Island, Australia, and she had the first ever same-sex kiss on Love Island. I'm very proud of it.

Speaker 1:
[40:35] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[40:35] Throw that on the Wiki.

Speaker 1:
[40:36] So you're saying your cousin is a lesbian and she got tongue down on TV in Australia.

Speaker 3:
[40:40] I think she at that point was saying that she was bisexual.

Speaker 2:
[40:43] You don't have to be a lesbian to kiss somebody on Love Island, Chris.

Speaker 1:
[40:47] I've never watched that program, shockingly. But I know that was big for your family. They got you and they got her. I mean, we're taking over.

Speaker 3:
[40:56] Yeah. It's a whole thing. We're like-

Speaker 2:
[41:00] Rackham's in charge now, bitch. That's what you're saying.

Speaker 3:
[41:03] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[41:04] No, no. What did she do with her post-Love Island success? What did she turn that into?

Speaker 3:
[41:10] She-

Speaker 2:
[41:11] Finished her master's.

Speaker 3:
[41:14] She is a business woman.

Speaker 1:
[41:16] Sure. Do you mind explaining which business that is?

Speaker 2:
[41:19] Andrew Tate kind of way. Got it.

Speaker 3:
[41:21] She was making money. She was in the entertainment business.

Speaker 1:
[41:24] The entertainment business. I understand. Down Australia too. I feel like you can get away with a lot down there. I feel like it's a fun place to be an expat.

Speaker 2:
[41:33] As long as you're white, pretty smooth sailing down there.

Speaker 1:
[41:35] You're good to go. I know she's white.

Speaker 3:
[41:38] It is. She's half Chinese.

Speaker 1:
[41:40] Oh, shit. Damn. I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize.

Speaker 2:
[41:44] I apologize for your cousin's race.

Speaker 3:
[41:47] Yeah, you should be sorry.

Speaker 2:
[41:48] You should be sorry.

Speaker 3:
[41:49] I get them payback hard.

Speaker 2:
[41:51] Yeah, payback is going to be a bitch.

Speaker 1:
[41:53] I'm sorry. That was an English joke. That was an English joke because you guys are so white. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[41:57] We are very white. Look at me. The only reason you know that it's not my t-shirt, my skin is because it's like tan, it's pink. It's like a pig wearing your shirt.

Speaker 2:
[42:11] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[42:12] Now, what happens if you guys go on holiday? What if you go to Spain with the family? You coming back tomato mode or do you get a nice dark tan?

Speaker 3:
[42:20] I wear factor 50. I sit in the shade. No, I love being on top, but I burn if I'm not very careful. But what about you, Chris, in the south? Are you tanned?

Speaker 1:
[42:31] Yes. Yeah. I tan like a chick in the 80s in a bed that she paid for in a fucking strip mall. No, I mean, I don't burn really, unless I'm sitting on the equator.

Speaker 2:
[42:43] For a cracker-ass cracker, he does tan well, I will say.

Speaker 1:
[42:46] Yeah. I don't get super red.

Speaker 2:
[42:48] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[42:49] I'm sorry, Chris. I don't know your source. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:
[42:54] No. Hey, look, it's totally fine. And I won't, if we clear, look, I'll call it even because I said the thing about your cousin, you said the thing about me. I think we're, I think we're zeroed out now.

Speaker 3:
[43:04] You know, it's like, I can't remember that there's two of you. So whoever's made the noise last is the one I like, kind of end up like nervously insulting.

Speaker 1:
[43:14] That's great.

Speaker 2:
[43:14] You'll get used to it after a while. Don't worry.

Speaker 3:
[43:16] I'm like, oh, I'm with the big boys. I need to like make the jokes.

Speaker 1:
[43:21] So you've done some other low-level podcasts, I assume. Are those more in the food space?

Speaker 2:
[43:26] Did you do Ruthie's this morning? Yeah. Which pod did you do?

Speaker 1:
[43:28] You're doing Desert Island Discs?

Speaker 3:
[43:31] Nothing compared to you.

Speaker 1:
[43:33] You'd be great on Desert Island Discs. That's a good. BBC, I know you're listening.

Speaker 3:
[43:37] Yeah, come on, BBC. You have to be either a titan of industry, which in the UK means you own the biggest, I know, denture factory, or I know you've read a book in the 80s. I'm not old enough.

Speaker 1:
[43:54] I do feel like when I look at that on my podcast app, I would say, and I feel like I'm pretty tapped in. Maybe one in four is someone I know.

Speaker 3:
[44:06] No, I don't understand the choices that they make. It's weird. They will put a senior civil servant on it. It will be like this person was in charge of checking weights and measures for the last 50 years.

Speaker 1:
[44:22] Me? Definitely maybe. I'm taking that with me. No cap.

Speaker 2:
[44:26] If they're only booking old people, maybe they're just afraid of having to publish someone's Be Ba Doobie as number three on there.

Speaker 3:
[44:37] This is what I'm thinking about. Did you guys hear of the Crazy Frog, which was a thing that we had here?

Speaker 2:
[44:44] Like the song, The Crazy Frog?

Speaker 3:
[44:46] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[44:47] I know. I don't know what that is.

Speaker 3:
[44:49] You should look it up afterwards. But that was British culture when I was a teenager. It was important. So maybe people will be choosing that.

Speaker 1:
[44:57] I think the idea is that because that concept could work for anyone, they make it work for anyone. You know what I mean? It really is so simple.

Speaker 3:
[45:04] You could be chatting to someone's grandmother.

Speaker 1:
[45:07] Yeah. Everybody's got an opinion.

Speaker 3:
[45:09] Maybe like, I love Michael Buble and that one song from the Tchaikovsky Opera, like Dance of the Black Knights.

Speaker 2:
[45:19] Crazy Frog and F-Miner.

Speaker 1:
[45:20] I need to look up Crazy Frog because you guys got so much funny little funky shit over there.

Speaker 2:
[45:24] Chris, you know Crazy Frog. You know the Beverly Hills Cop song where it's like, do, do, do, do, do, do.

Speaker 1:
[45:30] Oh, that's Crazy Frog?

Speaker 2:
[45:31] Do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah. It's just a cover of that song, but it's a CGI animated kind of frog character from, I'm looking it up, 2003. It was somebody on Eurodance.

Speaker 1:
[45:45] Oh, sure, sure.

Speaker 2:
[45:46] Created this character. And when the song drops, the Crazy Frog says the words Crazy Frog and then, it turns into an anthemic dance song.

Speaker 1:
[45:56] Oh, that sounds good.

Speaker 3:
[45:57] It is actually okay, but what happened was it became a ringtone. But like in early phones.

Speaker 1:
[46:03] The gift and the curse.

Speaker 2:
[46:04] Marketed by the ringtone provider, Jamba, with an exclamation point.

Speaker 3:
[46:08] There you go. And it was number one for like an ungodly amount of time. And I remember they refused to play it on our one radio station, because you don't have to go around the radio to listen to the one radio station. And they'd be like, we're not playing this, because they didn't think it was proper music.

Speaker 2:
[46:23] It is not proper music.

Speaker 1:
[46:24] I will agree with them.

Speaker 3:
[46:25] When the beeping started, like when the Sex Pistols, Crazy Frog, you know, all these things, were they?

Speaker 2:
[46:31] Crazy Frog was the very first Trojan horse, like the Sex Pistols, but for Slop music, I guess. They're the first Slop.

Speaker 3:
[46:41] Yeah, actually, I think it was. It was the Sex Pistols for Slop.

Speaker 2:
[46:45] Slop Pistols.

Speaker 3:
[46:46] You got to respect innovation. It's like Green Day is like the Crazy Frog. No, I don't. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[46:56] Green Day is too Crazy Frog.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] We talk about Green Day a lot on this podcast, so I'm glad that you brought that up.

Speaker 3:
[47:02] I actually love Green Day. I love early Green Day especially.

Speaker 1:
[47:05] Well, a lot of people love early Green Day, but I think eventually Billy Joe is going to come on the pod and we're going to be able to grill him like one of your fucking birds.

Speaker 3:
[47:12] Yeah. Will you spatchcock him first?

Speaker 1:
[47:16] Chill, bro. I ain't into all that shit, bro.

Speaker 2:
[47:19] We've referred to him as having a lesbian haircut for a couple years now. He's really transitioned.

Speaker 1:
[47:27] I think Billy knows that and I think he's leaning in.

Speaker 2:
[47:30] Own it, girl.

Speaker 3:
[47:31] I think he's comfortable in his skin.

Speaker 1:
[47:33] I think he's so rich that if he wasn't comfortable in his skin, there'd be a problem.

Speaker 3:
[47:37] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[47:38] What does spatchcock mean? I know it's a phrase.

Speaker 2:
[47:42] It's face down, ass up.

Speaker 1:
[47:44] That I understand.

Speaker 2:
[47:44] In the oven at 350?

Speaker 3:
[47:46] It is. It kind of is, to be honest. It's where you-

Speaker 1:
[47:49] So you're saying it's when the chef is bottoming? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3:
[47:53] No, the chef is-

Speaker 2:
[47:55] I'll let you explain.

Speaker 3:
[47:56] Jason, go on. You're the expert.

Speaker 2:
[47:58] No, you're the expert.

Speaker 1:
[47:59] No, you both are experts. It sounds like little freaks.

Speaker 2:
[48:01] But I would rather give you the floor, sir.

Speaker 3:
[48:05] Thank you. It's where you slice through the rib cage of a bird is. And so you open it up so that you have it flat, so you can cook a bird flat and quicker.

Speaker 1:
[48:16] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[48:16] Basically.

Speaker 1:
[48:17] Oh, that's a very fun term for that.

Speaker 3:
[48:19] Yeah. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 2:
[48:21] Yeah, you spatch that cock.

Speaker 3:
[48:22] You spatch it.

Speaker 1:
[48:23] Bro.

Speaker 2:
[48:25] I get the cock and I spatch it.

Speaker 1:
[48:26] You didn't go to school for this, right? Are you a self-taught shorty?

Speaker 3:
[48:29] Yeah. I studied politics.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] Oh, wow. How's that working out?

Speaker 3:
[48:34] It's fine. I got very good grades at school.

Speaker 1:
[48:37] I bet you did, little kiss ass. You're a little brown-noser, weren't you? No.

Speaker 3:
[48:40] I was almost getting expelled all the time. And I just go to school drunk.

Speaker 1:
[48:44] Okay. So you were partying, but you could still pull it off.

Speaker 3:
[48:47] I'm like, no, fuck you. I wasn't a nerd.

Speaker 2:
[48:51] I got quite good grades while being blackout drunk.

Speaker 3:
[48:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[48:54] Well, then when did you discover the knife skills?

Speaker 3:
[48:58] I always liked cooking. I would cook for my friends when I was a teenager. Loana, my partner, he was also at the dinner when you were at.

Speaker 1:
[49:06] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[49:07] My mom would cook for me a lot. So when I'd go around there, I'd cook for her.

Speaker 1:
[49:11] You guys have been together that long?

Speaker 3:
[49:13] Since we were 13.

Speaker 1:
[49:14] What?

Speaker 3:
[49:15] Yeah. It's a long time.

Speaker 1:
[49:17] It's like medieval. You still ain't put a ring on a big room?

Speaker 3:
[49:20] We've been engaged since we were like 21. And then it's this thing where we're like, okay, we just need a really close friend to get a big house because they don't want to rent a house, but they don't want to, you know?

Speaker 1:
[49:30] Sure. Yeah, we all want that.

Speaker 2:
[49:33] Book advance was good. It wasn't that good.

Speaker 3:
[49:35] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:35] Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 3:
[49:36] What am I going to go to, like, Butlins? You don't know what that is.

Speaker 2:
[49:39] What is that? Butlins?

Speaker 3:
[49:41] Butlins is like a, it's like a camp where you go, like, for people and their families to go and, like, I know, have fun by the seaside.

Speaker 1:
[49:50] That sounds pretty good to me.

Speaker 2:
[49:51] Sounds like a fucking J.Crew activation to me.

Speaker 3:
[49:53] It's lovely. It's lovely. I mean, if I described it properly, I would sound classist and horrible, so I'm just going to, I'm leaving it at that.

Speaker 1:
[50:00] So you're fine, you guys are fine where you are and she's not putting the heat on.

Speaker 3:
[50:04] She hates me. She's like, come on.

Speaker 1:
[50:06] Yeah, that's all good. That's all good relationships.

Speaker 3:
[50:08] Yeah. We're pausing that while I ruthlessly pursue success, and then I have to get back into trying to understand how to be a loving partner.

Speaker 1:
[50:18] You're like, babe, I need a couple of years to ruthlessly pursue success and I'll get right back on it.

Speaker 3:
[50:23] It's like absolutely true. I mean, you got to.

Speaker 2:
[50:25] But what do you do when you're in that mindset, but you're the one who goes to the kitchen to make the sandwich? We need to have some balance in this relationship. You're supposed to be hustling and grinding, she's doing your laundry, rubbing your feet, making you a sandwich, doing the dishes. But if you're doing all of it, what's she up to?

Speaker 1:
[50:41] Painting.

Speaker 3:
[50:42] Painting. Yeah, painting, that's true.

Speaker 2:
[50:46] Okay.

Speaker 3:
[50:47] I think she looks pretty.

Speaker 1:
[50:49] There you go.

Speaker 3:
[50:49] She's really beautiful and it takes a lot of time.

Speaker 2:
[50:52] It does, it does.

Speaker 3:
[50:52] You live with a woman, it's a lot of effort, and I'm going to mess all the time. She chooses my clothes, which is nice. I was like, I'll choose what we eat, but you have to shop for me.

Speaker 2:
[51:06] I mean, our lives are, I mean, I joked before that our daily diary entries are quite similar, do a podcast and have our missus pick out what we're going to wear to school today, and then I have to make the yummy supper. But I feel like you have a good sense of style yourself though. Is it just something that she's better at, or does she just really love it and you let her do it? Or are you shit at dressing?

Speaker 3:
[51:29] No, because I just wear the same thing every day. I just wear a jacket and trousers of the same color and a white t-shirt. But if I wanted to do anything more interesting, then I would like. Also, I guess she doesn't choose what I wear every day, but I would never want to buy clothes without her being like, that's nice. I feel lost. I got this brand, gave me a suit because I did a thing with them. But I haven't gotten picked it up yet because we haven't made our schedules work so that she can come and hold my hand when I choose the suit.

Speaker 1:
[52:01] What brand is this?

Speaker 3:
[52:02] It's called Drake's.

Speaker 1:
[52:04] Yeah, we know Drake's. You can't really go wrong there, but I feel like you sort of are a darling of the fashion world. I feel like maybe this is not the first or last free suit daddy's getting.

Speaker 3:
[52:17] I hope not. Come on. It's nice to have some clothes. I haven't got any of your clothes.

Speaker 2:
[52:20] It'll be nice to eventually stop getting paid in suits though.

Speaker 3:
[52:24] I don't like, yeah. You have a whole-

Speaker 1:
[52:28] You're saying you prefer legal tender over garments for payment.

Speaker 2:
[52:32] Combination of the two is nice too.

Speaker 3:
[52:33] Combination. I think a combination because there's only so much you can tax back before it gets suspicious and like- I don't know. The Drake suit, for instance, would have 2,000 pounds. I wouldn't buy a suit for that much. So it's kind of fun.

Speaker 2:
[52:49] I agree.

Speaker 1:
[52:50] Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And you deserve it. You'll look great in it. It'll be nice to have.

Speaker 3:
[52:55] Thank you, your sweetheart.

Speaker 2:
[52:56] And shout out to the good people at Drake's. We love those guys. I pulled some notes for the book. I was reading it this morning in the sauna. And I feel like how do you read a book in the sauna?

Speaker 3:
[53:06] Doesn't get damp.

Speaker 2:
[53:08] Well, it's an infrared dry sauna, not a steam. The book does get damp for sure, just from like my sweat and stuff. But the sauna itself is dry. But Chris, not a big food cooking cookbook guy. He's a book collector. But I feel like the opening line of your book is very Chris coated, quote unquote, dinners are not about the food. They are about the people at the table. And I feel like we're almost, we're almost getting to a post food dinner world now.

Speaker 3:
[53:42] No, because people are so perversely obsessed with food as well at the same time. Like, to be real with you, what I've been thinking about recently a lot is the weird way that like the interest in food is about two things on the one hand. It's like, it's because it's not technological. Like it's not being on your phone. Actually at the same time, like all about Instagram.

Speaker 2:
[54:06] Yeah. Well, that's kind of what I was talking about more. So, you know, like is, is the modern definition of a quote unquote gourmand, somebody who's good at, you know, documenting food that other people make on social media, you know, versus like the traditional, whatever, 50 years ago, being somebody who, I don't know, probably a bit. You know, was almost sexually obsessed with food.

Speaker 3:
[54:29] Did you watch that film, The Taste of Things, the French film about cooking? It was really...

Speaker 2:
[54:34] It's a documentary about you.

Speaker 3:
[54:36] Yeah. Well, it was like over sentimental trash. But anyway, the gourmands in that were like the worst bores ever. They're like, oh, this French rest, this French cook is like opening a new restaurant. He's like a genius. He's like the Napoleon of the kitchen. And you know what? I always think that like maybe people, when they were obsessed with food in the 50s, they were bores in one way, and now people are boring in another way, which is like posting pictures. I agree.

Speaker 2:
[55:05] I agree.

Speaker 1:
[55:05] Counterpoint, counterpoint. I honestly feel like the heyday of like, the plate eats or my phone eats first, like Instagram culture is over.

Speaker 3:
[55:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[55:15] I feel like I see that a lot less now. Like I don't...

Speaker 3:
[55:18] I think so.

Speaker 1:
[55:18] Like you don't see people at restaurants with like a fucking ring light, you would have like five or six years ago.

Speaker 3:
[55:23] Yeah. I think that was weird because that didn't really happen in the UK in the way I think it was happening in America because of the like British like embarrassment, self-embarrassment. But I do think that like now, you know, like people who are posting pics of their food, which I do all the time, but it's because it's kind of like linked with how I earn money. And most of the time, like food posters are just kind of like doing it as part of the hustle.

Speaker 2:
[55:51] I think after COVID, we moved the ring light inside of our automobiles and started filming ourselves eating the food in there.

Speaker 3:
[55:59] Eating there. Isn't that amazing? And also the eating all the stuff that's like weird colors in the car.

Speaker 2:
[56:05] I don't know what you mean by that.

Speaker 1:
[56:06] Dude, I talk about this all the time, man. I get the only food videos I see on Instagram are guys eating insane cookie collaborations in their car.

Speaker 3:
[56:16] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[56:16] And they bring like a jug of milk and pour a glass of milk in the car. It's all in the car.

Speaker 2:
[56:20] Well, because it's embarrassing to do that in public.

Speaker 3:
[56:22] It is embarrassing, but it's also embarrassing to do it in your car. Also, they probably got mice in their cars because they got crumbs everywhere.

Speaker 1:
[56:31] I ate so many novelty donuts in my car that the rats attacked it is a bad way to go.

Speaker 2:
[56:37] This is the Ratatouille sequel.

Speaker 1:
[56:40] We got to get to work on this, guys. That's it.

Speaker 2:
[56:42] Yeah. The Rat has now become a con. He runs a content creation studio in someone's car. Someone's Audi.

Speaker 1:
[56:48] No, no, bro. He's got the new Bronco. That guy eats crumble. You want to go there. Stay away from the Tesla. That guy's testing vegetables.

Speaker 2:
[56:54] Close up shop all his homies come and eat all the crumbs.

Speaker 3:
[56:57] Would they have like, so they would have a big like gas guzzling car.

Speaker 2:
[57:01] Typically, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[57:03] Not like a small one. Does the Tesla, big Tesla that you guys have the truck, does that run on petrol or on electricity?

Speaker 1:
[57:11] No, it's electric.

Speaker 2:
[57:12] You don't act like you don't have Teslas in London, bro.

Speaker 3:
[57:15] We do have Teslas, but we don't have the big truck one.

Speaker 2:
[57:17] You don't have the Cybertruck?

Speaker 1:
[57:18] No, the Arab guys don't drive Teslas. They drive Bentleys and Rolls. He don't know about that. When he's down at Mayfair getting a hundred dollar cup of coffee, he's rubbing elbows with Cybertruck drivers.

Speaker 3:
[57:27] And our Waymos have people in them, like drivers.

Speaker 2:
[57:33] You're saying the Waymos are still being tested, so they have a chaperone driver in there, just in case.

Speaker 3:
[57:40] Yeah, yeah. So you see them all the time, but it feels a bit like kind of like the Flintstone car, you know, like where they're like pet, they're like using their feet to make it go along.

Speaker 1:
[57:48] Yabba dabba doo ass car.

Speaker 3:
[57:50] We're not quite in the future.

Speaker 1:
[57:53] What is your relationship to America? How have you, I assume you've been to like New York and LA, but have you visited other parts?

Speaker 3:
[58:00] I went to Las Vegas to fly out when I was 15. I haven't been to LA as an adult. I've been to New York a bunch, but not to LA.

Speaker 1:
[58:08] That's far.

Speaker 3:
[58:08] I'd like to go. Someone should bring me out there.

Speaker 2:
[58:11] I'll work on it.

Speaker 1:
[58:12] Your wish.

Speaker 2:
[58:12] Maybe our good friends at littlebrown.co.uk will get in the budget, do a little LA book tour. I can set it up for you.

Speaker 1:
[58:19] That.UK part is going to be a hurdle. You know what I'm saying? Just budget-wise, just trying to unlock some stuff, move some stuff around. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[58:29] Like you've sold 50 books.

Speaker 2:
[58:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:31] But you can get it in America, right?

Speaker 3:
[58:34] No. It's not published yet.

Speaker 1:
[58:35] Okay. I thought maybe.

Speaker 3:
[58:36] No. I didn't tell you before we did this because I was worried you'd be like, wait, it doesn't even.

Speaker 1:
[58:41] No, I don't give a shit about that. We don't care if this helps sell your book at all.

Speaker 2:
[58:44] Luckily, we speak English over here too. I mean, I like how unapologetically British it is, how all the timings and measurements are in centigrade.

Speaker 3:
[58:56] That's like what the rest of the world does.

Speaker 1:
[58:58] Okay. I'll fucking close the Zoom so fast. You start telling me about it.

Speaker 2:
[59:05] Yeah, but if you're slow-roasted salmon, two and a half hours at 140, I'm thinking the thing's going to come out black. How does that short out? I don't get it.

Speaker 3:
[59:14] Yeah, someone else said that, but the temperature is really low, and it's got a lot of butter in it. If it's a big salmon, I think it's fine.

Speaker 1:
[59:21] Our salmon are fresh caught here.

Speaker 2:
[59:23] No, that's 284 degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, I see that.

Speaker 3:
[59:28] Yeah, you see, it makes sense. Like if it's foiled, it's wrapped, it goes really quickly.

Speaker 1:
[59:33] Bro, I don't have two and a half hours from my house to smell like fucking fish, though. Let's keep it a buck.

Speaker 3:
[59:36] No, because salmon doesn't smell like fish in that way. Because I know what you mean. When you fry it, it will smell more oily because of, I don't know how it releases, but when you roast it like that, it smells as bad. Because I wouldn't want that either.

Speaker 2:
[59:48] The aerosol release.

Speaker 3:
[59:50] Although when we originally cooked the salmon, the salmon, it was with these gigantic salmon, which were like, I don't know what your weights and measures are. But if you had like-

Speaker 2:
[60:01] Ironically, tell me in pounds, please.

Speaker 3:
[60:07] 50 pounds. But that's our money, so that's confusing. And it was in all night and it was in a massive Georgian house in Dublin in an Argo overnight. So I think that that was where the idea of how to cook it comes from, which you don't have in Europe.

Speaker 2:
[60:24] Get a little 44 pound salmon.

Speaker 3:
[60:26] I don't know why it's not published in America. I don't know why people don't, because people keep saying like, oh, I don't know why it isn't like it, but maybe it's too English. Maybe they're scared of me.

Speaker 1:
[60:36] Well, I think it's the classic thing if you have to show and prove that it works in your own country before they will do a run.

Speaker 2:
[60:42] Go wide with it. We're not ready to go wide with you just quite yet.

Speaker 1:
[60:46] So who's hiring you to do all these freaky little dinners? What's the clientele looking like?

Speaker 3:
[60:50] Like galleries and some individuals.

Speaker 2:
[60:54] Who's the most famous individual?

Speaker 3:
[60:57] The Queen.

Speaker 1:
[61:02] Bro, hold the fuck on. You're telling me that I-

Speaker 3:
[61:04] No, no, no, no, really. She's dead.

Speaker 1:
[61:07] But I know she's dead, but I thought maybe there was- I thought you were making a joke about some royal family, you know what I mean? Wanting some-

Speaker 2:
[61:14] So you've prepared a royal meal?

Speaker 3:
[61:16] I've prepared- No, but I've prepared meal for minor aristocrats, but they don't have any money. So-

Speaker 1:
[61:22] British is full of minor aristocrats. That doesn't really count, you know what I mean? That's-

Speaker 3:
[61:26] No, I just- I don't know who I'm working with. My client list is both much better than it appears on paper, and also probably embarrassing, which is why I'm trying to get an agent to shop me around more so I make some money.

Speaker 1:
[61:41] Those things just seem so stressful to me, you know what I mean? Because you're always in a new location. Yeah. I assume you have a team you bring with you that's the same, but everything else sort of is variable.

Speaker 3:
[61:51] But I always do, I design a menu based on what the kitchen is there, rather than the other ground. People like, if it's far away, I'll get a video or I'll do a site visit before, and then I'll be like, okay, I can do this. Because I've cooked for 100 people in a tent on the top of a big hill, and with two gas burners. Then you're like, okay, well, I'll cook what works for that, instead of being like, oh, I'm going to roast a salmon.

Speaker 2:
[62:18] That makes sense. Well, I can't wait to hire you for a dinner one day.

Speaker 3:
[62:22] I want that.

Speaker 1:
[62:23] It'll be a discounted rate, but we'll figure it out.

Speaker 3:
[62:25] I'll do it for free.

Speaker 2:
[62:27] No, don't. No, no, no, no. Exposure.

Speaker 1:
[62:29] We got to pay for materials though?

Speaker 3:
[62:31] Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker 1:
[62:34] Maybe. Because I ain't got time to go to the farmer's market. So like I'll give my credit card or whatever, but I can't really be going down.

Speaker 3:
[62:40] I'll take your credit cards and yeah, I'll just take your credit cards. That's how we'll do the bank.

Speaker 1:
[62:45] That's the incident.

Speaker 2:
[62:45] I'll take the credit card.

Speaker 1:
[62:46] I'll give it back when I feel like it.

Speaker 2:
[62:48] He'll know which saffron you'll want the most, Chris. Don't worry.

Speaker 1:
[62:53] Oh, I know. Yeah. What did you cook when I ate? What did we have at Issy's house that night? Do you remember?

Speaker 3:
[62:58] I had you saying when you were doing the interview that I was messy.

Speaker 1:
[63:02] The kitchen was, look, you were spread out in there. Let me say that.

Speaker 3:
[63:05] It's a very, it's a different-

Speaker 1:
[63:07] You were spatchcocked in there is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3:
[63:09] That kitchen is really hard when there's a party because there's like 12 people standing in the kitchen.

Speaker 1:
[63:16] Look, I'm not saying, look, I'm not disagreeing with any of these factors, but I'm saying I like a clean, personally, in my restaurant.

Speaker 2:
[63:23] You didn't do a site visit before going? Because I thought every kitchen you go into and you cook the meal according to that. I'm just kind of confused now. This is like firing line.

Speaker 1:
[63:35] I have to say, you just said that.

Speaker 2:
[63:37] Is that a contentious British tone?

Speaker 1:
[63:38] You literally just said that. So I'm trying to understand. I'm just trying to understand, big bro.

Speaker 2:
[63:42] It was fresh on the mind.

Speaker 3:
[63:43] I was, I was cooking with my buddy. So I wasn't, you know, if it was a professional, I would have an assistant. It would be clean. I cooked, I cooked like a variety of different flat fishes, didn't I?

Speaker 1:
[63:56] They were delicious. No, I remember it all being very good.

Speaker 3:
[63:59] It was like turbot, I think.

Speaker 1:
[64:02] Yes. A classic turbot.

Speaker 3:
[64:03] Yeah. A classic.

Speaker 2:
[64:05] Do you have a turbot pan?

Speaker 3:
[64:07] No, I'd love one though. Isn't that a beautiful thing that they have the like, the diamond shaped pan?

Speaker 1:
[64:11] Is it shaped like the fish? Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[64:14] So beautiful.

Speaker 3:
[64:14] It's so that you can put it.

Speaker 2:
[64:16] It's sort of the final boss of copper cookware, I would say. It's like the most unitasker thing. Like you pull it out once every four years. It costs, you know, $1,800.

Speaker 3:
[64:27] I mean, you could roast anything you wanted in there.

Speaker 2:
[64:30] True.

Speaker 1:
[64:31] But the shape is particular.

Speaker 2:
[64:33] That could be good for an editorial.

Speaker 3:
[64:35] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[64:36] Something random in the turbot pan? You're joking. Chicken in the turbot pan? Now I've heard everything.

Speaker 3:
[64:42] I'd be on the news.

Speaker 1:
[64:43] You're fucking joking.

Speaker 3:
[64:45] They'd be like, scandalized. I'd be like the Sex Pistols.

Speaker 2:
[64:49] I'd get the Vapors.

Speaker 1:
[64:50] The food community would come for your damn neck. That's for sure. All right, so we had some fish and I feel like there was a salad that I liked too, but my memory is failing me.

Speaker 3:
[64:58] No, you're right. It was a salad. It was, I think, I believe it was either radicchio or puntarelli.

Speaker 1:
[65:03] Radicchio. Radicchio.

Speaker 3:
[65:05] And I think there was some roast potatoes and then afterwards we had some trifle, I believe, which is kind of like an English tiramisu.

Speaker 1:
[65:13] I brought my own water to that dinner. I came with two big avions for myself because I was thirsty. I just wanted to-

Speaker 3:
[65:19] And you were talking to Yassi.

Speaker 1:
[65:22] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[65:23] And I was like, you both are podcasters, right? Because you were podcasting. It was crazy. Like you weren't-

Speaker 1:
[65:30] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[65:30] When you were talking?

Speaker 1:
[65:32] When two people that have podcasts talk to each other, that is technically a podcast whether Mike's here or not. That's honestly true.

Speaker 2:
[65:38] And then everyone else at the table, it's sort of understood that you will be quiet and only observe.

Speaker 3:
[65:44] We just watched. We just watched. It was wonderful.

Speaker 2:
[65:47] You become an audience member.

Speaker 3:
[65:49] We did that party that was coming off those two.

Speaker 2:
[65:53] Yeah, you guys just choose. Chris, I'll ask you this question. How sexual was this meal on a scale of one to ten?

Speaker 1:
[66:02] I would say this setting was too friendly. Yeah. It was probably a six, seven. But I didn't know anybody there except Issy and Yassie.

Speaker 3:
[66:11] But everyone was friendly.

Speaker 1:
[66:12] Oh, totally. I'm just saying it was. I wonder how other people would answer this question because I don't know. You know what I mean? I don't know them.

Speaker 3:
[66:18] It was, I don't think it was particularly sexy. It was friendly.

Speaker 1:
[66:22] But Jason's saying the sex is oozing out of you and you don't have a choice. It's on the plate.

Speaker 3:
[66:26] I don't have a choice.

Speaker 2:
[66:27] It's on the plate.

Speaker 3:
[66:27] It's in my hands, my face. I walk around, I mean, like I know that in America, I've got like weird teeth and like a funny face. But in, in, on these islands, they're like, wow, that is a, that is a handsome young man right there.

Speaker 1:
[66:43] Sure. So you're saying if you leave your zone, maybe they misinterpret what you got going on. But in the motherland, they see you come and they say, get out of the way.

Speaker 3:
[66:51] Actually, you know what I said that, but you know, Americans will say, they're falling over themselves is even worse.

Speaker 2:
[67:01] Okay. So you went from being big turbot, small pond to just everyone is, every pond is full of shit water.

Speaker 3:
[67:08] No, the opposite. Every pond is full of Ambrosia.

Speaker 2:
[67:13] Okay. Well, so you're an aisle 10 and a mainland six is what you're saying.

Speaker 3:
[67:20] Mainland seven, aisle 10.

Speaker 2:
[67:23] Okay. Well, are you consciously aware of the sexuality in your cooking and lifestyle and philosophy, or does it just come out? Is it something that you're aware of and you try to include, or is it something that you try to regulate even?

Speaker 3:
[67:39] Can I try and regulate?

Speaker 2:
[67:41] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[67:42] I actually try and regulate. I try and make a little less come out than would naturally.

Speaker 2:
[67:47] A little less come out? In the same way that somebody is like, hey, this R-rated film should be PG-13. Let's cut some of the nodules.

Speaker 1:
[67:56] Yeah, depending on your audience. Like Jason said, if you're cooking outside in Ireland for some fat boys under some tents, it's like we're going to tone it down. But if Vogue is coming to XYZ, it's a little, you're going to turn it up.

Speaker 2:
[68:09] It's the Fashion Neurosis Dinner.

Speaker 3:
[68:11] American Vogue did a report on my book party that just came out today.

Speaker 1:
[68:16] What did they say?

Speaker 3:
[68:17] That it was lovely, they were very nice.

Speaker 1:
[68:20] That's great. I'm saying they love you over here.

Speaker 2:
[68:23] Shout out to your PR.

Speaker 3:
[68:25] Nothing is to do with my PR, I do it all myself.

Speaker 1:
[68:28] I believe that.

Speaker 3:
[68:28] I mean, no, not nothing. Henry is great. That's it. I forgot this was public.

Speaker 1:
[68:36] I forgot this was public.

Speaker 3:
[68:39] I thought I was just with these two men having a chat.

Speaker 2:
[68:43] That happens to us all the time because we, like our producer Ian, like he helps us out and he does so much on our podcast. But in every interview, Chris and I are like, it's just us, baby. Just him and me. We do it all ourselves. And it's easy to kind of slip into that mindset, even if you don't believe it.

Speaker 3:
[68:59] It's like Joey Tribbiani and friends when he gets fired from days of our lives because he says he writes the script.

Speaker 2:
[69:11] No, I kind of do it all.

Speaker 1:
[69:12] I actually just kind of handle it myself.

Speaker 2:
[69:15] God damn it. On the subject of serving weeknight meals, you sort of break dinner parties down into weeknights, weekends, Sunday lunch, long lunches, cooking for sick people, people you're fucking, people you're family, whatever. And there's a chapter called Dinner for Lovers. And it was kind of interesting because it's, you know, you're really outlining the playbook for, you know, fucking food, you know what I mean? In so many words. And I like that you were sort of including the importance of like, yes, it should be a lighter meal because of the fucking, but also like it shouldn't be so Puritan that it sort of takes you out of that mood. So really riding that sweet spot of, you know, the perfect amount of cum protein and stuff like that, you know, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:
[70:11] No, no, no, I was I was enjoying it and I used to use a protein.

Speaker 2:
[70:17] I was going too far.

Speaker 3:
[70:18] It was beautiful. It was a lovely description. I mean, that was that was nice to write. I think food is like obviously inextricably linked to the erotic, because it's also kind of disgusting and the erotic is kind of disgusting.

Speaker 2:
[70:40] Yeah, I think about that a lot with like foods that have like nasty smells and pungent flavors and you know, it's just I should not be eating this blue cheese. Everything about me is saying not to have this calf's brain or whatever, but I might want it despite everything. I want it now.

Speaker 3:
[70:58] Can't resist. Yeah, I don't know. I like trying to, I think that's a good example of actually telling someone how to do it, because I think if you were a young person and you wanted to have someone around for a date, maybe if you're not like me and you don't have immediate natural res, maybe having a book had to tell you it's good.

Speaker 2:
[71:22] Yeah, you're saying young people learn from my mistakes.

Speaker 3:
[71:25] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:25] He doesn't have any.

Speaker 2:
[71:26] Admire my res.

Speaker 3:
[71:27] Just pure success, 100 percent success.

Speaker 2:
[71:32] But I mean, I've definitely cooked a lot of sexual meals and mistakes were made. You have to learn the hard way.

Speaker 3:
[71:40] No, of course.

Speaker 2:
[71:41] But thanks to creators like you, many of our young people don't have to learn the hard way, which is that good or bad? It goes back to our aging prematurely conversation from the beginning.

Speaker 1:
[71:53] Well, no woman's going to go to a guy's house for dinner at this point. They're too afraid. You got to take them to a restaurant. You can't do this anymore. Maybe in England, in America, if you ask a woman over for first date to cook and you're going to cook.

Speaker 3:
[72:05] No first date.

Speaker 1:
[72:07] Third date, fifth date, they ain't going to do it.

Speaker 2:
[72:09] What if you have a well-established DM convo?

Speaker 1:
[72:16] We know each other. We've talked a lot. We matched on it.

Speaker 2:
[72:19] I didn't just pick her up at the Pizza Express. We've been drive-riding for quite some time.

Speaker 3:
[72:29] I always admire the breadth of knowledge you have for English culture. Pizza Express is beautiful. It's perfect.

Speaker 1:
[72:37] Neither of us have ever eaten there, but it's a mainstay on many corners.

Speaker 2:
[72:40] A logo that I admire, but I've never...

Speaker 1:
[72:42] Great logo. Jason, Pizza Express feels to me like a less swaggy Mellow Mushroom in many ways, logo-wise.

Speaker 2:
[72:49] Yeah, I agree. It's like an AI-generated Mellow Mushroom logo.

Speaker 3:
[72:54] What's a Mellow Mushroom?

Speaker 1:
[72:55] Mellow Mushroom is an American delicacy that is located mostly in the southern region. I would say it's a small chain. I bet there's 20 of them, maybe 30.

Speaker 2:
[73:03] Small to mid-size regional pizza chain that has a southern America hippie aesthetic to it.

Speaker 1:
[73:10] But it's low-key good.

Speaker 3:
[73:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[73:12] It's like the food is like the pizza is good, but it does it like each person who owns one can kind of freak the decorations as much.

Speaker 3:
[73:21] So it's got like, oh, I love that way you have a franchise, and so you have different decor.

Speaker 1:
[73:27] But it's all the same, but it's slightly different. You know what I mean? It's like they have a catalog they can choose from and each person chooses something different, I would say is how.

Speaker 3:
[73:34] I'm working, so I'm plugging my computer.

Speaker 1:
[73:37] Well, we're almost done, so this shit's going to die, but I got to go to dinner.

Speaker 2:
[73:40] Well, what a beautiful rustic kitchen behind you.

Speaker 1:
[73:42] Amazing kitchen.

Speaker 3:
[73:43] Thank you. You can check it out on the internet as well.

Speaker 1:
[73:46] Yeah, I feel like as a person who doesn't cook, I'm very jealous of the knife holder things on the wall. I've always thought those look quite cool.

Speaker 3:
[73:56] They're good, and also I always think that if they were zombies or roadmen coming in and you needed to grab something. I have never in my life said roadmen before, but I thought for you guys.

Speaker 1:
[74:10] This is the right place.

Speaker 2:
[74:11] Look, the problem with having all of your murder weapons hung in plain view in the center of your room is those roadmen can use those knives on you. Yeah, I have 50 drawers in my kitchen. The killing knives are only in one by the time they get to them. Roadman dead.

Speaker 1:
[74:29] You guys should check out guns. It's a lot easier.

Speaker 2:
[74:31] That's the other problem. I mean, it's like putting your gun on the dining room table. You're asking to get shot.

Speaker 3:
[74:37] Last time I was in America, I got to go shoot guns with this hillbilly up in the Catskills. That was so-

Speaker 1:
[74:45] I'm sure.

Speaker 2:
[74:45] Does this hillbilly have a podcast?

Speaker 3:
[74:47] No, he didn't. No, he doesn't even know. I didn't even know if he knew what a podcast was. A real one.

Speaker 2:
[74:52] You're in good hands, brother.

Speaker 3:
[74:53] He's a real one. I got to his house and I was like, can I have a glass of water? He was like-

Speaker 2:
[75:01] What are you, a queer?

Speaker 3:
[75:02] Yeah, he called me a queer. He was like, no, you can't have a glass of water. I don't have any more cups. He was holding a tin cup and I was like, what do you mean you don't have any more cups? He was like, I have a canteen and this cup.

Speaker 1:
[75:18] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[75:18] I have cup.

Speaker 1:
[75:19] I have single cup.

Speaker 3:
[75:20] Yeah, one cup.

Speaker 1:
[75:22] Damn, bro. That sounds like me trying to get my flower rations.

Speaker 3:
[75:25] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[75:25] How did you incorporate the feeling of gunfire into the bedroom later that night?

Speaker 3:
[75:31] I wasn't traveling with a sexual partner.

Speaker 2:
[75:34] With a lover?

Speaker 3:
[75:35] I just masturbated and listened to the sounds that I'd recorded during the day.

Speaker 1:
[75:41] Sure, of course. Nothing like a gun going off.

Speaker 2:
[75:43] It's like a Bjork song.

Speaker 1:
[75:44] It gets you on chub real quick. Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2:
[75:48] What a Rosalia song on my headphones start violently jacking in.

Speaker 1:
[75:52] Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2:
[75:53] To Entertain is available anywhere except America is what it sounds like. Do check it out.

Speaker 1:
[76:00] No, it was good to see you. Thank you for joining us and hopefully we can break bread soon. We'll be in London soon.

Speaker 2:
[76:07] Yeah, we'll be in London a couple of times this summer. We'll hit you up.

Speaker 3:
[76:10] Yeah, hit me up.

Speaker 1:
[76:11] I'm going to force you to cook for us in that freaky little kitchen.

Speaker 3:
[76:13] Yeah, I'd love that.

Speaker 2:
[76:15] Have a good time at the theater.