transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] It's the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[00:41] The Dallas Cowboys crushed day one of the NFL Draft. We'll break it down next.

Speaker 4:
[00:53] You are Locked On Cowboys, your Daily Dallas Cowboys Podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

Speaker 3:
[01:04] Welcome back to the Locked On Cowboys podcast. I am your host, Marcus Mosher. He is Landon McCool, and today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can bet just $5 and get $250 in bonus bets. If your first bet wins, head over to fanduel.com to get started. On today's episode, we are breaking down round one of the NFL draft. We're going to talk about Caleb Downs. We'll talk about Malachi Lawrence. We'll talk about what's next for the Cowboys. But off the top, Landon, it's been a little bit since we've jumped on this stream and felt really excited about how a Cowboy draft went, at least in round one. Tyler Smith turned out really well. We weren't super excited about the pick. Tyler Booker turned out well. It was an OK selection. Mozzie Smith, we certainly were a little bit more reserved with that one. But this feels different. This feels like, I don't know if it's the best case scenario, but I can't imagine many that would be better.

Speaker 5:
[02:08] Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, my level of excitement was, it was reminiscent of, I mean, these are not always great examples, but Morris Claiborne or Des Bryant, you know, when, I mean, this was a guy that I identified early as one of my favorite players, and obviously, he's everyone's favorite player. I'm not, you know, claiming pet cat ownership over Caleb Downs, but I just kind of felt like, he was a guy that really was going to be a good fit, especially considering what we have been through with the off season and how the defense had changed. And it just felt like it would have been amazing. And then, you know, obviously, right away, you feel like it was not likely, right? Like it just, you kept on seeing him going top five and top seven. And even though he, you know, positional value, all that, it was just, you know, it fell out of reach for so long. And for the Cowboys to acquire him without having to sell the farm. And then, you know, we'll talk about the other trade later.

Speaker 3:
[03:16] But yeah, can we do that really quickly? Because I think we're going to want to talk about Downs and Lawrence a lot. But yeah, the Cowboys moved up from picks 12 to pick 11. It cost them two 5th round picks. And then they traded down from 20 to 23 to pick up two additional 4th round picks. We thought the Cowboys were going to be active in this draft. I don't think a lot of people predicted that they were going to trade both first round picks. But now you leave round one of the draft with two guys that we really liked and more draft capital than you had going into the draft.

Speaker 5:
[03:53] Yeah, and that's the most brilliant part, right? Is that now, I mean, just, we ended up now with three 4th round picks and with the 3rd round pick, I mean, I just went and checked the Jimmy Johnson chart. That's good enough if you wanted to package all those 4ths in that 3rd round pick together, you could get into the bottom half of the 2nd round. So, I mean, yeah, to be able to do what you did, get Caleb Downs and still come out with more picks than when you started at better position to picks, I think is a huge win. And then you add in what you got with Malachi Lawrence, we'll dive into all of that specifically, but just writ large, like what they got plus what they were able to gain just besides the two picks. It really was impressive. And I do want to comment real quick. It feels like this was another great example of maybe where the analytic team has really kind of helped these Cowboys just kind of understand the value of trading around a little bit and not being afraid to trade with the Eagles and NFC teams because it's still about getting value and getting all the points and getting other opportunities to take bites of the Apple. And the Cowboys took advantage of it and not only got great players, but got more assets to get more players, which is just super impressive.

Speaker 3:
[05:20] Yeah. And we'll talk about this in a little bit, but I don't know. I don't think they're going to trade all those picks to go up in the second round. I wouldn't be surprised if they just make those picks because they just need more bodies on that side of the ball. But let's go back to Caleb Downs because I want to do a little bit of a deep dive on him. We talked about him early in the process. He is really the perfect star position for Christian Parker, a guy that can play in the slot on early downs. You can have him be your nickel linebacker. You can have him be your free safety. He is the total package at safety. He's incredibly smart. But I think the thing that I like about it even more than we did or even more than I did when we initially started talking about Caleb Downs back in February is they have another player in Jalen Thompson, who also can move around quite a bit. And now you've got two extremely versatile safeties, and you can do a lot of fun and creative things with on the back end.

Speaker 5:
[06:18] Yeah. I mean, obviously, I think Caleb Downs is going to play a lot of nickel, right? But I think because you have Thompson, you have a lot of options to be very flexible with those guys. And a lot of these coverages, if you remember when we talked early on about breaking down Christian Parker's defense, we talked about the disguise, we talked about the split field coverages, one side's playing cover two, the other side's playing cover four. You know, I think that that's the kind of on the move flexibility that can happen with those two players, because they're both so good at playing down and playing up. And whether you try to isolate one to one side or isolate the other, they're going to be able to react. And so, yeah, it's not just about the fact that you got a really versatile player, it's that you had already a versatile player to kind of play off of him really well, that's going to make him such a great fit in this defense.

Speaker 3:
[07:12] Yeah, it's really unbelievable. They got him. Now, if you're going to be on the negative side of things, it's the positional value. And this is why we thought he maybe could fall a little bit. He's not the biggest safety. He's not the most athletic safety, but all he's done is produce. He was absolutely dominant. He was a freshman All-American and an All-First Team SEC Selection in 2023. He transfers to Ohio State, back to back, unanimous All-American seasons. He tackles. He had 256 tackles in three years. He comes down into the box and he can blitz. He can cover. I will be shocked if this isn't a Pro Bowl safety by year three at the latest.

Speaker 5:
[07:57] Absolutely. And I'll say this too, for positional value. I think you get a little bit of scheme bump, not necessarily because he's such a good fit, but because having a player like that allows you to play, not in the same way, but similar to how Seattle plays, where you could be a nickel all the time because of how physical this player is, how instinctual this player is, and it's going to allow you to handle multiple offenses. That's why Seattle was so effective, because you couldn't get them into a bad scheme fit. They could match you really well because they could play big, even when you went into 12 personnel. I feel like you're going to be able to still do that with someone like Caleb Downs, and that's going to be a real, real scheme advantage so you get real value from that.

Speaker 3:
[08:48] I think it also shows Christian Parker's first pick as the defensive coordinator in Dallas is one of the most intelligent safeties just defensive players, at least in this draft, and one of the most that we've seen over the last three or four years. I think he's going to be prioritizing these guys, at least in the secondary, that are extremely smart, that can play zone, that they can play man. I'm so fired up for the Cowboys to have good safety play again. And it just makes a huge difference. They're going to have holes at linebacker. We'll see what their pass rush looks like with all the new names in there. But it's just so nice when you have safeties on the back end that can do so many different things and can cover up all the problems up front.

Speaker 5:
[09:32] Well, I mean, and also just think about this. Like we have a new defense that we have to install here. And Caleb Downs was going into team interviews and explaining to defensive coordinators what their scheme was at a pro level, having never played a snap of NFL football yet. I mean, that's the kind of mind that we're talking about that you're injecting into this defense. He is going to be as good an assistant coach as you could possibly have in disseminating information to the rest of the defense because he's just that kind. He's a coach on the field right away. So yeah, absolutely. He's going to have a huge bonus trickle down effect to the rest of the defense because he's going to help accelerate everyone else's learning because he's going to be so intelligent and in the middle of the defense guiding everybody.

Speaker 3:
[10:20] Were you surprised he traded up?

Speaker 5:
[10:24] No, not because of the way it played out. It seemed like early on it looked like it was running well, but you didn't get as many of the offensive tackles that you felt like you hoped were going to go in the top half of the draft. And I think the Cowboys got to a point where it's, I mean, I actually had a couple of different people in my DMs telling me, oh man, it's too bad because the Miami picked Downs. I don't know if they actually were going to or if they were just holding that over in Dallas. And at the end of the day, you know, using two fifth rounds to secure the guy that you want.

Speaker 3:
[11:01] That's where I'm at. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 5:
[11:03] Give me that all day. And especially since you more than made up for it in the trade back that you did later in the first round. So yeah, I don't care. They made the right move there.

Speaker 3:
[11:14] All right. So let's talk about Malachi Lawrence. The second first round pick that the Cowboys made after a trade. We'll get to that next. This episode is brought to you by Rugiet. The NFL draft is officially here. Don't we know it? Where preparation meets opportunity and every decision matters. It's all about being ready when your moment comes. And that same mindset applies off the field too. And that's where Rugiet comes in. Rugiet offers treatments designed to help you feel ready and confident when it matters the most. Their top option, Rugiet Ready, is a mint that dissolves under your tongue with clinically proven ingredients. It works quickly, often in about 15 minutes or so. And the effects can last up to 36 hours. And they also offer Go Long, designed to help with both performance and control. It's all about showing up at your best whenever that moment is. Head over to rugiet.com/locked On NFL and get 15% off of your ED treatment. That's rugiet.com/locked On NFL. That is Rugiet Performance Medicine For Men. This episode is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are here where every possession matters. Every matchup is magnified and every game can swing a series. And right now FanDuel is giving new customers a great way to get in on the action. Here's what I like about it. You can bet just $5 and get 250 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. The app makes it easy to follow the action with player stats, trends and matchups all in one place. And during the playoffs that extra insight really matters when you're looking at stars, role players and key moments. It just makes the entire playoff experience more engaging from start to finish. Like I'm already engaged because my Lakers are up 2-0, but I cannot wait to go to FanDuel and look at all of the lines available for that matchup on Friday night. So head over to fanduel.com to get started. FanDuel, play your game. Welcome back to the Locked On Cowboys Podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen every single day. Don't forget to check out the Everydayer Club where you can get ad free episodes of the Locked On Cowboys Podcast. Just go to lockedoncowboys.supercast.com to join the club. All right, let's talk about Malachi Lawrence. This is somebody that gained a ton of steam over the last 72 hours. We had John Owning on this podcast on Tuesday's show. Go back and listen to that. John did a really, really good job of explaining how Lawrence fits this defense. What do you think of the pick?

Speaker 5:
[13:53] Yeah, actually, I called John about 30 minutes before we got on and had a little chat with him. And yeah, I mean, both of us were super excited because I just think he's such a great fit for what you're specifically looking for, right? You went out and got a guy in Rashad and Gary who could be kind of a more heavy handed, big body edge, who could help you play the run in early downs. Ezra Rock who himself played really well specifically against the run, still needed some development as a pass rusher. I think hopefully he will get there a little bit this year. We'll see how he comes off of the hip stuff. But what you got in Lawrence is a guy that has the alternate, the pure pass rush. He's the juice. He's got a 40 inch vertical. He's got a sub 1-6 of 10 yard split if I'm not mistaken. I mean, just a guy that is going to come screaming off the edge. He's got the big body that you want. He's got long arms. He just is not refined as a run player yet. And that's why he's at the bottom of the first round and not at the top. That is okay though. The Cowboys need guys who can come and help them on third downs. Who can be the juice on the edge. Who can help with the pass rush. We'll figure out the run stuff. We've got other bodies. We can do that. We've got a scheme that works well against the run with multiple defensive tackles in the field. Lawrence can come out here, provide the juice early on as he develops an ability to play the run. I just think, you know, when you look at what was going to be available at the back half of the first round, and this is kind of how it all developed, right? Is that the names that we all know, TJ. Parker and Mesador, and obviously Bain ended up there.

Speaker 3:
[15:29] Falk, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[15:31] I think that, yeah, Falk, yeah, obviously. Of those guys, the only ones that were truly kind of juicy fast rushers, guys that can really come off the edge and create quick pressures, were potentially Mesador, Bain, and Lawrence, and Parker a little bit, but not quite the same as the rest of these guys, and really not even, Lawrence is still burstier than all those guys, and he just had less flaws.

Speaker 3:
[15:57] I mean, that's what I was going to mention, because I had like, for me personally, on my board, I had Cassius Howe and Keldrick Falk and Parker higher, and I think if you want like a scheme agnostic fit, I like those guys better. But for Dallas, if you're going to have a guy be a wide nine, you need that guy to be really, really explosive, and he's just more explosive than what Falk and Cassius and Orin Parker are. I don't know if he's quite as explosive as Cassius Howe. It's close, but there is, I'm looking at the wingspan difference right now. There is a seven inch wingspan difference between the two of them. Like so, and that's pretty massive, right? When you're going to be playing in space, it's nice to have those long arms. He just checked the most amount of boxes of all those edge rushers, at least in that tier, like once you got past David Bailey, R. Maurice, and really that's it. Like once you got past that guy, he kind of checked the most boxes. I still think he's pretty raw as a pass rusher, but he's got a lot of different moves. But this is why you hire somebody like BT Jordan to be on your staff, is to get the most out of him. So we'll see.

Speaker 5:
[17:04] Well, I mean, listen, BT Jordan was the guy who's training all of those guys that we mentioned in the off season. And do you think he isn't going to be whispering in Jones' ears on which one he wants? I think that this very much is telling I he's going to, I really do think he's going to contribute a lot right away on third downs. You needed this kind of quick pressure getter on your edge. Like that's that's that was the specific skill set that you were missing. He is going to be able to provide that if he doesn't play the run early on, who cares? Like this is the kind of valuable skill set you're looking for. And he's as close to a ready made pass rusher as far as like, affecting the quarterback quickly as anyone not named Arvel Reese or David Bailey. And really, I think like like you and John kind of talked about in the show, there isn't a 20 pick difference between these two players. David Bailey and his skill set, to be honest, they're very, very similar players.

Speaker 3:
[18:06] I'm a big fan and I understand he's a little bit riskier because it's a smaller school. They play the big 12. So it's not really all that different than Texas Tech, right? It's the same competition. He's a little older. It took until year five for him to truly break out. He's going to be 23 during his rookie season. But there's just not that many guys that can run 452 at 250 pounds to have those long arms. And what I like about this selection is, and you and I, every time we did these mock drafts, Landon, if you get past round one or at least the top 40, it became really hard to get edge rushers. And I think you'll see on Friday, TJ Parker, R. Mason Thomas, and Cassius Howell, they're going to come off the board quick. And you just can't get those guys. Whereas I think for now Dallas linebackers, cornerbacks, defensive line, like you can find those guys in round three and round four. If you wanted a guy that was going to be able to come in here and make plays right away, you needed to draft him in round one. You maybe even needed to reach a little bit, but that's okay because you're getting an athlete at a position that really, really matters. That's why I have a huge fan of this pick.

Speaker 5:
[19:21] And again, like the problem with taking a linebacker in the first round was that he was going to have that fifth year option problem that all these linebackers fall into. So it just made more sense to go out there and get an edge rusher. The talent was right. They had really good intel on him because of his familiarity with his former coach at UCF now being the assistant defensive line coach, the Cowboys. There was just a lot of things that were simpatico here. So it just made a lot of sense. I think he's going to have as good a chance to succeed here as he would in almost any team in the NFL.

Speaker 3:
[19:57] Yeah, and just to recap, now your edge rushers going into the year, Donovan Azaraku, Rashawn Gary, Malachi Lawrence, James Houston, and then Sam Williams who you brought back. I wouldn't be surprised if they're still looking for another veteran. Maybe that's bringing back a guy like Jadavia and Clowney or Dante Fowler. You're still waiting for someone to develop into that kind of one A guy. But at least you have three guys that you feel pretty good about. And a fourth in James Houston who I think fits the scheme pretty well.

Speaker 5:
[20:30] Yeah. And this is also a scheme that's going to be doing a lot of sim pressure, blitzes stuff. So pressure is going to be coming from a lot of different directions, just not just from the edges. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[20:40] All right. So let's talk about what's left for the Cowboys. Now that they have all these additional picks, what can they accomplish? We'll get to that next. This episode is brought to you by Kalshi. The NFL draft is officially here and every pick is a tradable moment on Kalshi. They have so many great markets available right now, especially now that round two of the NFL draft is here. You can double your money on some of these picks. It's unbelievable. Like maybe you had Ty Simpson going in round one or going to the Rams. It's just the best way to trade with the NFL on Kalshi. You're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position, trade the draft pick, the game and more on Kalshi. And for a limited time, download the Kalshi app and use promo code LOCKEDON to get $10 when you trade 10. That's K-A-L-S-H-I, Kalshi, trade on anything. Welcome back to the Locked On Cowboys Podcast. We'd like to thank you for making us your first listen every single day. Landon, what's next for the Cowboys? I mean, I know it feels like kind of the draft's over now that you got your two guys, at least with Caleb Downs, who we never thought was gonna be there. Still a lot of work to be done. And now they have more capital than they had before. Pick 92, pick 112, and pick 114, I believe is the one that they acquired from the Eagles.

Speaker 5:
[22:11] And another one later in the fourth round as well.

Speaker 3:
[22:12] Yeah, there's another one at the end. I think it's a compensatory. Is it 168 or something like that? Or maybe it's a little higher than that, 138. Sorry, I don't have it in front of me. What do you expect them to do now?

Speaker 5:
[22:26] I expect them to be a little bit more aggressive and they can move around a little bit. Let's pick 137 it looks like. So it's 112, 114, and pick 137, I think, if I'm reading this correctly. So I just expect them in general to kind of use those picks to maybe be a little more precise. Like if they like someone specifically that's kind of falling in the third round, maybe they throw one of those fours together to kind of move up a little bit and attack them. They could honestly take some time to just wait on to see how things fall to them. There's a lot of really good players in this draft. The only issue is that it's a really long wait at this point. They have no pick in the second round and their third round pick is really late. So it is going to be kind of a long wait on Friday, but on Saturday they're going to have some pretty prime picks all in a row. And this is kind of right where the talent of the draft is. So if they wanted to go out and get a couple of another cornerback or a couple of another defensive end or like with other positions that we've talked about right are they definitely could use a running back to that could be help change things up versus Williams. They could definitely use a tight end in a very deep tight end class. So these are all positions that I would potentially target on day three. If they don't end up using one or two of them just to kind of be aggressive and move around a little bit on day two.

Speaker 3:
[23:55] Theoretically, they could trade 92 in their two early fourth round picks, 112 and 114. They could actually get all the way up into the second round if they wanted to. I guess I suppose they could use next year's draft capital. They wanted to use their next year's second, and let's say a couple of fourths to try to get into round two. They could do that. However, I don't anticipate that. What I think is more likely Landon is that they trade those picks for veteran players like maybe a veteran linebacker that we've talked about. But I really think they're going to probably stick in thick or big small trade ups from like 92 to 85. Something like that to just go out and get a guy. But I think they want to probably add at least two more guys that they feel like can fill positions. And this is something that we talked about early in the off season. It's like if you're not going to have a defense full of stars, so they have one big star in Quinn and Williams, just have a bunch of depth. Have 15, 16, 17 guys you just feel good about. If they can add more depth on the defensive line and add another cornerback that you feel good about, or add a tight end in round four that could maybe take Luke Skoonmaker's spot. I don't think that's a bad way to go.

Speaker 5:
[25:07] No, absolutely not. And look, like you said, you've got a little bunch of high priced stars and you're going to be paying some more high priced stars at some point. We haven't even talked about today's events with George Pickens, which were quite an event. We'll do a whole show on that at some point because I don't know if it's quite over, but it was certainly a rollercoaster pre-draft for us. But I think that it's one of those situations that when you pay those guys up top like that, you have to find a way to fill in with a cheap talent. And having day two and day three picks, especially higher day three picks like the fourth round, gives you the opportunity to fill your middle class of your roster with maybe more talented guys than you would normally get paying the rate that you're paying a fourth round pick. So that's where you have to find value when you're paying high prices at key positions.

Speaker 3:
[26:04] I'm stoked. And it just feels so good to have one of these drafts again where like, it's not that I didn't like like the Tyler Booker pick last year, but like, it wasn't what we expected.

Speaker 5:
[26:16] You know, look, a guard is fine. But this is just this is a sexier draft, let's be honest.

Speaker 3:
[26:22] And on top of that, like Booker was somebody that a lot of people had as like a backend of the first round player top of the second round. I mean, Caleb Downs for a lot of people was the best overall player in this draft. And he falls to 11 because of positional value, which again, I completely understand. There is a point where like the lines cross a little bit. And I feel like for me, I mean, you get outside the top 10 picks and you're getting a guy that everybody, like I believe that a consensus party was fourth overall that everybody absolutely loved. Sign me up.

Speaker 5:
[26:56] Yeah. I mean, we, we, we thread the needle and that we just didn't think it was going to be possible. And, and, and it all happened. And we had to be a little aggressive at the end, but we didn't pay very much. And then to get the opportunity to more than make up for it on the backend with the trade, with the Eagles, and then get a player like Lawrence, who was a very appropriately valued player who I was a personal pet cat of mine. I mean, this was just on, I don't like putting draft grades on these things, but just walking out at day one, it feels like an A plus draft, to be honest.

Speaker 3:
[27:28] All right, that is it for today's show. We'd like to thank you for making Locked On Cowboys your first listen every single day. Make sure that you check out the show on YouTube, download the podcast wherever you get your podcast. We are free and available on all platforms. And if you never miss an episode, the Everydayer Club is built for you. Get Locked On Cowboys ad free, plus members-only Discord access and so much more. And for those of you on video, we can send you the first ever 24-7 National NBA YouTube channel. And on audio, make your second listen, the Locked On NFL Draft Podcast. Follow Landon on Twitter, at McCoolBCB. I'm at Marcus underscore Mosher. Enjoy your night, enjoy Friday. See you guys back here tomorrow.

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