transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:00] Every day as a small business owner feels like solving a puzzle. One moment you're cruising along, and the next, there's a shipping snag that has you scrambling. But here's a surprise you will like. With Progressive, small business owners save 13% on their commercial auto insurance when they pay in full. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as eight minutes at progressivecommercial.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, discounts not available in all states or situations.
Speaker 2:
[00:28] Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.
Speaker 3:
[00:49] The Last Word with Ali Velshi in for Lawrence starts right now. Hey, Ali.
Speaker 4:
[00:54] So you know, Jen, I feel strongly about the fact that you're the master class in how you stand in front of a podium, in front of a group of people who might like you, might not like you, whatever the case is. I was watching our friend Cash Patel's presser.
Speaker 3:
[01:07] Oh boy.
Speaker 4:
[01:07] You know, you gotta be careful what you say about this dude, because he sues everybody for saying everything. That was just, I just wish he had called you and said, maybe you don't like me, I don't know, but can I just have a few tips on how to handle this thing? It was a little, I was giving him more of the benefit of the doubt before he got out there in front of the press and decided to argue about The Atlantic and the other reporting that was out there.
Speaker 3:
[01:29] That might not be his only problem, but I have advice on all of it. Don't be paranoid, don't drink on the job. Yeah, and maybe you could do better publicly performing too.
Speaker 4:
[01:41] Maybe don't call everybody a liar all the time, right? I mean, I know a lot of people who took it, a lot of people took exception to things you said when you were up there, but there's a way of engaging in people who are there to be critical with you. One day, just keep your phone on, because if I ever need to get in front of a crowd like that, I'm calling you.
Speaker 3:
[01:58] I'm here always.
Speaker 4:
[02:00] Thank you, my friend. You have a great evening.
Speaker 3:
[02:01] Thanks, I have a great show.
Speaker 4:
[02:04] Okay. Well, Donald Trump first became famous when he was a fame hungry New York real estate developer who filed for bankruptcy six times. Weirdly, he reinvented himself, pretending to be a boardroom guy telling people you're fired on television. But now voters might be realizing that Donald Trump is not a successful manager. He just played one on TV. A majority of registered voters, 56% according to a Fox poll, now say that Trump is not competent and he's not effective in managing the federal government. 56%. Now, there's no mystery here. It's just not hard to understand why these numbers are affected. It's almost hard to understand why they're as low as they are. Because as Donald Trump's war in Iran drags on, his administration has literally descended into chaos. Every day, every few hours, just yesterday, Navy Secretary John Phelan was fired after 13 months at the Pentagon. Donald Trump and the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth thought it was a good idea to fire the Navy Secretary just as the United States Navy has imposed a blockade of Iranian ports. The New York Times reports, quote, tensions had been simmering for months between Mr. Phelan and his two bosses. Mr. Phelan, a White House appointee, also had a contentious relationship with his deputy undersecretary, Hung Kao, who is more aligned with Mr. Hegseth, especially on some of the social and cultural battles that have defined the secretary's tenure, the official said. The tumult could make it harder for the Navy to replenish its stock of Tomahawk missiles and high-end air defense systems, which have been in heavy use in Iran. John Phelan is the latest military official to be forced out by Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth during Donald Trump's war, including the Army Chief of Staff, General Randy George. He was fired three weeks ago. We're in the middle of a war, and we've fired the Army Chief of Staff and the Navy Chief of Staff. Donald Trump has lost three members of his cabinet in less than two months, all of them women. Now, look, you do expect high-level departures in a lame duck president's second term. But not like this. Both former Homeland Security Secretary Christine Noem and the former Labor Secretary Laurie Chavez de Rehmer were embroiled in headline-making scandals. Former Attorney General Pam Bondi was fired over the handling of the Epstein files. And then there are the Trump appointees who haven't been fired. FBI Director Cash Patel making headlines for responding to the Atlantic's reporting that he was, quote, known to drink to the point of obvious intoxication like this.
Speaker 5:
[04:40] I've never been intoxicated on the job. And that is why we filed a $250 million defamation lawsuit. And anyone of you that wants to participate, bring it on. I'll see you in court.
Speaker 4:
[04:52] And Trump's Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick made headlines today for dodging questions about his deliberate public lie about his relationship with his next door neighbor, Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 6:
[05:04] The American people wants to know, why did you lie about your relationship with Epstein?
Speaker 5:
[05:10] The House Oversight Committee and I have agreed. We are the appropriate— We will spend the time together.
Speaker 6:
[05:15] Reclaiming my time, I do not accept that answer. We've heard that one. We are our own committee. We have our own reason to test your credibility and veracity. Please answer the question, why did you lie to the post?
Speaker 5:
[05:30] I have voluntarily agreed to spend the time and talk about it.
Speaker 6:
[05:35] I reclaim the time. Let the record reflect you're dodging the question.
Speaker 4:
[05:43] And what stage of lame duck are you when one of your embattled cabinet secretaries is claiming that you've got your own special kind of math?
Speaker 7:
[05:53] The drug was $100 and it raised the price to $600. That would be a 600% rise. If it drops from $600 to $100, that's a 600% savings. And the president used that mathematical device.
Speaker 4:
[06:12] Now, I don't know much about much, but I do know about numbers. That mathematical device does not exist. This is all happening as Donald Trump's war drags on, and he not only does not seem to know how to get out of it, he's not even sure about the basic facts about the war. At 914 a.m., we're in the eighth week of this war, 914 a.m. this morning, Donald Trump posted, quote, Iran's having a very hard time figuring out who their leader is. They just don't know. The infighting is between the hardliners who've been losing badly on the battlefield and the moderates who are not very moderate at all, but gaining respect is crazy. He also called MS NOW's Jackie Alamani to say as much. President Donald Trump told MS NOW on Thursday morning that Iran has no idea who their leader is at this moment. They're all messed up. They have no idea who their leader is. Donald Trump told Maria Bartiromo last week that he lost his voice, quote, screaming at Iranians. Which is curious, because he doesn't seem to know which Iranians he should be screaming at. He recently posted on social media, the United States of America is in serious discussions with a new and more reasonable regime to end our military operations in Iran. So again, I ask you, which Iranians? It's day 54 of supposed negotiations for a great deal with Iran, and Trump doesn't even know who we're supposed to be talking to. The New York Times reports, In reality, the Islamic Republic has not been toppled. Power is now in the hands of an entrenched, hard-line military, and the broad influence of the clerics is waning. The official interviewed say the generals view the war with the United States and Israel as a threat to the regime's survival, and after five weeks of fierce fighting, the generals are confident that they have contained the threat. At every juncture, they have taken the lead in deciding strategy and the use of resources. Back here, gas prices are still more than $4 a gallon, and has been for most of the start of this war. This was Donald Trump's response when asked what he would say to the American people who want to know when the war will end, and when those gas prices will go down.
Speaker 8:
[08:21] What do you say to the American people who question how much longer this will take, obviously you know that they are having higher prices?
Speaker 5:
[08:27] You are such a disgrace.
Speaker 9:
[08:28] Did you hear what I just said?
Speaker 4:
[08:30] Vietnam. How many years was Vietnam?
Speaker 3:
[08:32] I understand, sir, but you are passionate about six week deadlines.
Speaker 9:
[08:35] Well, I did my, I took, I took, I took the country out militarily in the first four weeks.
Speaker 10:
[08:45] I took it out militarily.
Speaker 4:
[08:47] Now what we're doing is sitting back and seeing what deal.
Speaker 5:
[08:50] I'm not asking anybody for more time.
Speaker 11:
[08:52] If you need more time, does that mean Americans should anticipate spending more on gasoline for the foreseeable future?
Speaker 10:
[08:58] For a little while.
Speaker 4:
[09:01] For a little while. New polling today from CNBC shows six in 10 Americans disapprove of Donald Trump's handling of the economy. I remind you, this is a topic on which he ran his election. And on inflation, that disapproval number climbs higher, only 30% approving, 69% disapproving. That's because American families are actually struggling to keep up. While the cost of food and gas continue to rise, the Trump administration is stripping funding for health care, safety net programs for Americans, but is willing to consider a financial lifeline for a dictatorial petrostate, the United Arab Emirates, a country that also happens to be a major Trump family enterprise funder. It's no wonder that tonight 63% of American voters believe that Donald Trump does not actually care about people like them. Leading off our discussion tonight is the Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia. He's a member of the House Oversight Committee and the Homeland Security Committee. Congressman, great to see you. Thank you for being here this evening.
Speaker 12:
[10:01] Thanks, Ali. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4:
[10:03] We've had a lot of wars. Donald Trump talked about Vietnam. We've had a lot, which by the way, nobody ever declared a war. But there's always debate about the war, and there are always people who look back on it and think, well, maybe I was on the wrong side of this thing. We're not even starting in a place where there's any consensus about whether this war should be happening, whether it is a war, most of us believe it is, and what the justification is for it, and what success looks like. It's kind of wild that literally every few hours, the narrative on this war changes.
Speaker 12:
[10:33] Yeah, look, Donald Trump made no effort to explain to the American people why he was engaging in this war. I think the reason for that is he didn't know why the hell he's engaging in this war. He didn't have a plan going into it. He maybe thought it would be as simple and easy as Venezuela was, but now he's got us stuck. He's desperately looking for an off-ramp, but he clearly drove into a cul-de-sac and we're at a stalemate. The negotiations are not moving forward. We're in a weaker strategic position today than we were before the war started, before 13 brave US service members lost their lives, before $30 to $40 billion of American taxpayer money was spent there. We're in a weaker position today as an absolute utter failure.
Speaker 4:
[11:21] One of the things that the Pentagon Papers showed us was that the US government, the administration had been lying to Congress and the American people about what was actually happening in Vietnam. But it took like people sneaking papers around and journalists publishing it. This is out in the open. Donald Trump said things like that we've taken their entire military out, their entire Navy is at the bottom of the sea. These are probably wrong things that he's saying. And it was clear that the intelligence leading into this war dictated that what happened was exactly what was going to happen.
Speaker 12:
[11:56] Yeah, he also keeps saying that the Iranians have agreed to his conditions. And then five minutes later, the Iranians come out and say, we haven't agreed to anything. He's making it up as he goes along. And it would be funny if the American people weren't paying the price, right? We got $4 a gallon gas prices, home interest rates rising, farmers paying more for diesel and fertilizer. The American people are paying the price for this catastrophic foreign policy failure, one of the biggest blunders in modern history.
Speaker 4:
[12:32] Now, we've seen Donald Trump's approval ratings low and sort of stuckish. This last week, we've seen numbers that are lower than typical, even for Donald Trump. He's down and sort of depending on what polling you're looking at, as low as 33%. He seems to have a floor at about a third of Americans. But at this point, what we can't find is Americans who, while they support Donald Trump, can explain some of these actions. I think if you ask 10 people why we're at war with Iran, 13 of them couldn't tell you why we're at war with Iran.
Speaker 12:
[13:02] Yeah, yeah, look, you did a good job of laying out the chaos that's taking place in this administration right now. I think there were a lot of Americans who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 and said, look, we know he's a little bit chaotic, but we believe he can manage the economy. Now they're learning his chaos is damaging the economy and damaging the pocketbooks of hardworking American families. And they're saying, this ain't what I voted for. I didn't vote for $4 a gallon gas prices, higher interest rates, higher diesel costs, higher fertilizer. That isn't what American people thought they were getting and they're realizing it. And I think that's one of the reasons he and his Republican sycophants in Congress are struggling so much politically right now.
Speaker 4:
[13:50] Congressman, good to see you. Thank you, as always. Virginia Congressman James Walkinshaw. All right, joining us now is MS Now Senior National Security Reporter, David Rohde, who he's kind of attached to me because I can't continue to report the story on Iran without checking with David what happened. Because you're literally a live fact check. Again, Donald Trump has said there's no leader. The military has been completely taken out. Now, let's just start with the first one. There's a kernel of truth to the fact that it's less clear. It's less clear than not about who's actually in charge of Iran. But it is pretty clear that it's not some group of moderates.
Speaker 13:
[14:29] Oh, absolutely. And I think I'm more attached to you for the record. But more importantly, the Iranian leadership, it's essentially... Look, there was a cleric, Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader, and the religious leaders had power. He was killed in this Israeli and American strike at the outset of the war. His son is now the supreme leader. The power center has always been the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, and that's just grown stronger. It's essentially, and you mentioned this excellent New York Times piece by Farnaz Fasihi. She's a great reporter. She spoke to 23 people inside Iran, and that piece made very clear, I've had experts tell me the same thing. It's a new, more hardline regime that's really no different than the last regime, but it's dominated by these generals. They have sort of concentrated power themselves and weakened the clerics and weakened other civilian leaders. So there's no question Iran has a strong leadership. It has a clear government. So I was surprised and puzzled by the president's claims this morning that he doesn't know who to talk to.
Speaker 4:
[15:38] And as Congressman Walkinshaw says, as Donald Trump will say, the Iranians have agreed to something, and then we'll get some message from them that they've agreed to no such thing. That said, there is something in some parts that look like an attempt at a negotiation. JD Vance seems to be interested in getting out of this war. The Iranians, I don't think, want to sit in this war forever either. It does cost them dearly. Best case scenario right now is we end up with a straight-up war moves open, and some kind of a deal that maybe looks a little bit like the deal that Donald Trump, the 2015 nuclear deal that Donald Trump pulled America out of in 2018, essentially doing away with it. I don't hear a lot of people saying that there's a likelihood of something better than any of that.
Speaker 13:
[16:20] Absolutely. Look, there was real progress, and I want this war to end. I mean, it's a huge amount of suffering for a lot of people in the region, but then obviously Americans as well. The big step forward was that ceasefire last Friday in Lebanon. It was a meeting in Washington. Secretary of State Marco Rubio was there. It was really strong American diplomacy. Then within the next day or so, the president announced the blockade of Iran's ports. I think it's the second time that there's just a bad strategy, I believe, well, I suspect, I should say, I suspect driven by Pete Hegseth and other hawkish people, that the belief is we're going to blockade their ports and they're just going to give up. It was almost the same approach as we're going to bomb the country and they're going to give up. And that hasn't happened. And I've been working on a serial run tomorrow morning with our colleague, Julia Jester. We talked to economic experts and it's essentially the strait is closed in both directions now, the Strait of Hormuz. There's nothing going into Iran, they can't sell oil, there's no oil coming out of the Strait of Hormuz that helps the world. So who can withstand that kind of economic pressure longer? The vast majority of experts we talked to said, they live in Iran, they've lived under sanctions for decades. Yes, it hurts them to not be able to sell oil, they're going to be short on cash, but they grow most of their food now. Again, they've adjusted to the sanctions and sadly, they can also hang in longer because they're not a democracy. Iranian people can suffer and they really don't have a way to hold their government accountable.
Speaker 4:
[17:56] Right, the popularity polls don't matter in Iran. Important point to point out because a lot of people in the world who would like to see something that looks a little more like democracy coming to Iran, but that looks far off for now. David, thanks. I look forward to your piece with Julia tomorrow morning. MS NOW is David Rohde. All right, coming up. Now Donald Trump wants public companies not to claim refunds for the tariff money that he illegally took from them because he will, quote, remember them. In other words, nice business you have there. Shame if something were to happen to it. That's next.
Speaker 14:
[18:30] The GLP-1 pill you've been waiting for is now on Rowe. Yep, it's finally here with the same clinically proven ingredient. Now in a pill and now on Rowe. It's the first FDA approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. At the lowest price available, that's one daily GLP-1 pill for big results. Now on Rowe. Go to rowe.co/listen to see if you qualify. Rx only. Go to rowe.co/safety for serious side effects and box warning associated with GLP-1s.
Speaker 2:
[19:00] Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.
Speaker 15:
[19:22] At DSW, we ask the important questions, like what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes, at the perfect price of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today, and let us surprise you.
Speaker 4:
[19:55] The most transactional president in history is trying a new mafia style tactic to force companies to do something that could be against their own interests, their shareholders' interests, and their customers' interests, but sure is in the interest of Donald Trump.
Speaker 16:
[20:11] There's a whole number of very large companies, including Apple and Amazon and others, that have not sought reimbursements yet for the tariffs. They haven't tried to collect refunds. And from what I understand, part of the reason that they have waited is because there is a worry about frankly offending you. Would you find it offensive for them to try to collect a refund?
Speaker 7:
[20:35] I think it's brilliant if they don't do that.
Speaker 13:
[20:38] Actually, if they don't do that, they got to know me very well.
Speaker 17:
[20:42] I'm very honored by what you just said.
Speaker 18:
[20:44] If they don't do that, I'll remember them.
Speaker 4:
[20:49] If they don't do that, I'll remember them. That is a mob boss talk right there. That is the president of the United States directly pressuring companies not to claim the refunds to which they are legally entitled for unconstitutional and illegal tariffs that they were charged. Kind of like if you were entitled to a tax refund, but you were encouraged by the government not to take it. It's the same kind of pressure that Donald Trump tried and failed to put on the Federal Reserve Chair, Jerome Powell, to push him to lower interest rates to compensate for the hit that Trump's tariffs were taking on the economy. When Powell refused, Trump's Justice Department launched a criminal investigation against him that is so blatantly politically motivated that one retiring Republican senator is deliberately holding up the confirmation of Donald Trump's pick to be the next chairman, Kevin Warsh, until the Powell investigation is dropped.
Speaker 9:
[21:43] If this investigation, which on its face looks bogus, wasn't happening, we'd be voting to send Mr. Warsh out of committee next week or the week after, and he'd be seated by the 15th, and that's still possible if we just get past this bogus investigation.
Speaker 4:
[22:00] But Trump won't give up the ghost, not even after a federal judge threw out federal subpoenas for Powell for being baseless. Jeanine Pirro's office sent federal prosecutors to the construction site at the Federal Reserve Headquarters in an unannounced visit. They were refused access, but some senators still care about the feds' independence, and Kevin Warsh has done very little to convince them that he didn't promise to do Trump's bidding to get the job.
Speaker 19:
[22:28] You said to Senator Kennedy that President Trump never demanded you to cut interest rates in your job interview. Is that your sworn testimony?
Speaker 17:
[22:36] That is, Senator.
Speaker 19:
[22:37] Okay. Well, someone here is lying, then, because it's either you or President Trump, because in an interview with the Wall Street Journal of December 12th, President Trump confirmed that he pressed you on your commitment to support interest rates cuts.
Speaker 17:
[22:52] Senator, there's, of course, a third alternative. You cite a couple of reporters for a leading financial newspaper. I recall reading that story at the time.
Speaker 19:
[23:02] Did you issue a correction?
Speaker 17:
[23:03] I think those reporters either need better sources or better journalist standards.
Speaker 4:
[23:10] Ah, yes, it's the journalists' fault. Joining us now is Ron Insana. He is a veteran journalist and the author of The Message of the Markets on Substack. Ron, thank you for being with us. Kevin Warsh, not everybody knows his name. He's on the Fed. He's Trump's nominee for Fed chair. I remind people, Jerome Powell was Trump's nominee for Fed chair. He likes to say that Joe Biden made him the chair. He didn't. On paper, Kevin Warsh meets the standards, which is quite something for senior officials in this government. He actually does. But Kevin Warsh, in his time on the Fed, has voted in a way that supports Donald Trump. I mean, he's sort of out of line with the mainstream thinking on the Fed to start with. So this idea that he's somehow some independent maverick doesn't hold up to what little scrutiny we already have.
Speaker 10:
[23:58] Well, he was a maverick in the sense, and I was talking to Kevin during the depths of the financial crisis in 2008 when he was opposed to Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke, lowering interest rates to zero, engaging in what we called unconventional monetary policies to save the banking system and prop up the US economy. Kevin was worried about inflation at a time when we were going through a massive deflationary event and was wrong really on the arc of inflation in the 10 or 12 years after that. So in that sense, Ali, he was a maverick. He was a maverick on the wrong side. Now, if he wants to lower interest rates, he'd be doing so when inflation is above target, stock market is near all time highs, and not an environment in which you would typically lower interest rates without threatening to accelerate inflation going forward. So maverick in one sense, but certainly not in the sense that we often understand it.
Speaker 4:
[24:49] So Ron, you and I are pretty old, but we're not old enough to have been reporters during the last period in which inflation was a real massive threat to the actual underpinnings of the American economy. So people don't remember that this is super dangerous. I also would like lower interest rates. I think generally speaking, people like lower interest rates. It allows them to borrow. It encourages them to spend. They buy houses. Factories expand. There are lots of good reasons to have lower interest rates. But boy, is inflation a hard problem to solve if it gets out of control.
Speaker 10:
[25:19] Yeah, and then what you're alluding to here, actually started in 1966 and lasted until 1981. I was just looking at a stat today that I think people forget just how dramatic inflation was in the early 80s, particularly again, if one, you weren't covering it or two, you weren't living it. The average mortgage in 1981, conventional 30-year fixed rate mortgage got as high as 18.6 percent. So inflation gets out of control as it did during that period. In 1980, inflation was 13 percent. Unemployment was 11 percent. Short-term interest rates were 20.5 percent as then-Chairman Paul Volcker was trying to crush inflation. By doing so, created two very large recessions. This is something you don't want to get out of control. You don't want to run away. This is an environment in which lowering interest rates at a time where, as I said earlier, inflation is above expectations. There's real no strong justification as yet for Kevin Warsh's argument that we're going to go through some big productivity boom that's going to lower inflation on its own and give the Fed leeway to cut rates over time.
Speaker 4:
[26:24] Yeah, I mean, nice if that were true. Ron, this business about Donald Trump's conversation with Andrew Ross Sorkin, in which he basically said, I'll remember companies that don't ask for the refunds to which they're entitled. There's a portal open now. Companies can go and apply for their refunds. That's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 10:
[26:44] Yeah, it's an inverse pay to play, right? If you don't take the money that I lawfully owe you, you're my friend as opposed to pay me and I'll do this for you. That may be happening in other parts of the government as we've seen over the last 15 months or so. But yeah, it is, as you suggested, very much a strong arm tactic of sorts. He had a slightly gentler touch with regard to that particular topic. But he's saying, don't take the money and I'll be your friend. And that's not something we have historically heard from presidents, certainly not out loud.
Speaker 4:
[27:17] Ron, nice to see you as always. Thank you for joining me, my friend. Ron Insana is a veteran financial journalist, is the author of The Message of the Markets on Substack. All right, coming up, we've got fresh evidence tonight of how Trump's war is helping tank America's standing in the world. Professor Timothy Snyder calls what's happening now under Trump a superpower suicide. Tim joins me next. Under Donald Trump, the United States is now less popular than China. According to Gallup, China surpassed the United States in global approval ratings in 2025, with a median of 36% approving of China's leadership compared with 31% for the US. Now at the same time, disapproval of US leadership rose to a record high, 48%, while China's disapproval rating remained flat at 37%. And Donald Trump's recent attacks on Pope Leo, the American-born international leader of the world's 1.3 billion Catholics, seems to have backfired spectacularly. According to New Reuters' polling of Americans, some 60% of them said they had a favorable view of Pope Leo compared to 36% who said the same of Trump. Now, just a little perspective here. Fewer than a quarter of Americans are Catholics. So most of the people who had a favorable view of the Pope don't hold that view because he's their spiritual leader. They just have a better opinion of him than they do of their own president. It's just one more miscalculation by Donald Trump who seems simply cannot imagine that people would admire someone who promotes peace and humility and not bombing videos and self-promotion. Speaking of Trump and bombing, today, Donald Trump's son, Eric Trump, announced that a company for which he is the chief strategic advisor just landed a $24 million Pentagon contract. I wonder how that happened. The Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren swiftly posted on social media, quote, Eric Trump went on Fox to brag about winning another multimillion dollar contract from the Trump administration. I've been sounding the alarm and pushing for answers. Is the Pentagon just a cash machine for Trump's kids now? This looks like corruption in plain sight, end quote. This reeks of the kind of not even trying to hide it corruption that took down a magga hero, Victor Orban. You'll recall that JD Vance went to Hungary while his own country was at war with Iran to try to help the Hungarian right-wing ethno-nationalist save his job. Orban got crushed in that election. The New York Times reports on what has happened since Orban's loss. Hungary dropped its opposition to a 106 billion dollar EU loan to Ukraine and European leaders unblocked the funds. The money, which has been held up since December, will cover a large share of Ukraine's financial needs over the next two years. Don't worry though, Donald Trump will find a new way to help Vladimir Putin, including by extending sanctions relief so that Russia can continue to profit off of Trump's war in Iran. This afternoon, The Washington Post reported that Trump intends to invite Vladimir Putin to the G20 in December, which is being held at Trump's Florida golf course. So that's what America is doing to its adversary. Here's what we're doing to our longtime friend and neighbor, Canada.
Speaker 18:
[30:33] The US has fundamentally changed its approach to trade, raising its tariffs to levels last seen during the Great Depression. Many of our former strengths, based on our close ties to America, have become our weaknesses, weaknesses that we must correct.
Speaker 4:
[30:50] That was the Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, in a speech to the nation after his Liberal Party won a majority on a platform that included, in effect, breaking up with the United States. A weakness that we must correct is what he said. You know, I grew up in Canada. It's impossible to believe that the Prime Minister of Canada would be saying something like that, about their alliance with the United States. The Canadian Prime Minister who attended university in the United States, by the way. But that's what Trump has brought this country to. Our next guest, the University of Toronto history professor, Tim Snyder, writes, quote, Superpower suicide is a concept to help understand the approach of the Trump regime to the rest of the world. We're fighting a war for no reason we can name, losing it, and covering our defeat with genocidal and apocalyptic propaganda. This is bad enough on its own. But I think this performance is symptomatic of something deeper, a systematic undoing of American power by Americans. Joining us now is Timothy Snyder. He's a professor of history at the University of Toronto. He's the author of the New York Times Best Sellers on Freedom and on Tyranny. Tim, thank you for this. I want to talk to you about this superpower, Suicide in a Second, but I also want to just you're in my, you know, you come from my hometown in Toronto. And I was fascinated to read this by Ipsos, which said that only six months ago, 52% of Canadians saw the US as a positive influencer. Now only 19% feel the same. This 33 point fall is the largest recorded for any country. While ratings of the US did also fall among its northern neighbors during the Trump first term, this is the lowest score we have recorded for Canada since we started tracking the question in 2015. I only say this to you because you live among Canadians. It's something to piss off Canadians like that.
Speaker 20:
[32:35] I'll say something nice about Canadians first, which is despite the way that they react politically to the Trump administration, which I think is completely rational, they remain unbelievably gracious and patient with actual citizens of the United States of America. And I appreciate that. But yeah, it makes complete sense. The United States in its present incarnation threatens jokingly or more seriously to undo Canadian statehood. American leaders act as though Canadians aren't real people who have a sense of dignity about their own country. But if you push them, it turns out that they very much do. And I'm afraid this reaction to the United States is not just a matter of bullying. It's also a matter of recognizing that there's weakness behind the bullying. And if you want to make a long-term plan, you've got to look elsewhere.
Speaker 4:
[33:19] Superpowers have fallen in the past. Generally speaking, and you can trace them back and see sort of where they went wrong. But generally, they don't deliberately undertake it in the midst of the whole thing. I think back to the pivot into when America became sort of the most economically and militarily important power in the world and Bretton Woods and NATO and NORAD and the United Nations and all these things that the United States was at the base of. You're making the argument that we're deliberately undoing this thing in some sort of a protectionist guise, but there's nothing to replace it. We're not replacing it with something that we even think might be better.
Speaker 20:
[33:57] That's a really good way of phrasing it, because it's normal for there to be a transition from one kind of power to another kind of power. What's unusual, what I've been scratching my head about this as a historian, is to think of a case where a big empire, an important state, or in our modern parlance, a superpower, has over the course of such a short period of time, undermined all of the basic sources of its own reputation and strength, which is what we've done. We don't have an idea of what the United States is under these people. We're ruling as though state power was to help a small clutch of oligarchs, rather than the interests of the state or the interests of the citizens. Our fiscal policy makes no sense. We're not gathering taxes from the rich, and Trump wants to throw even more money at the military. Technologically, which is hugely important for the rise of modern powers like Great Britain, technologically we are deliberately watching as the Chinese and others make the turn to green energy while we remain attached to an archaic form of fuel. In terms of the long-term success of the country, we're undoing public education, we're attacking our own universities, we're deterring scientists from coming here, and we're driving scientists away who are already here. You can go down the list. We can't, as you said, we're driving away our allies, and we can't deal with our adversaries. Pretty much any box you care to check about the sources or the signs of power, we're not only failing to check it, we're just struggling on our shoulders and tossing everything away.
Speaker 4:
[35:25] I'm going to pull my best Professor Timothy Snyder impression right now, because the one thing you do in some of our darkest times is that you look at where the opportunity lies, and there is, in fact, for Americans, a remarkable opportunity here, because in everything you just named, we can remake this better. We can remake this better, but this is now on every American to actually do what they have to do in all the ways that you have described, protest, voting, registering, being vocal. But it still can be done. We can make a better world. We can fix all those things that this administration seems to be trying awfully hard to break.
Speaker 20:
[36:05] I think that's completely right. In the superpower suicide critique, it's deliberately about power. I'm not talking about ethics. But to solve it, you have to care about ethics, because it all arises from the abuse of power. We get to this state where a great power can do away with the basis of its own authority and its own strength because of the abuse of power, because power is in the hands of one person. We pull away from that by using the democratic muscles that we have. We pull away from that by recognizing this as one of many symptoms of a deeper problem. And we pull away from and towards something better by seeing the coming election, not just as a time to vote, but as a time to prepare to vote, to defend the vote, to rally, to organize and to protest. This can be done. You mentioned the recent election in Hungary, where it was done. And the superpower of suicide is just one reason among many, one sign among many that it's time to get started.
Speaker 4:
[36:58] And I'm going to be talking to Leah Greenberg in a moment about protests that are coming up on May Day, on May 1st. But I want to talk about Hungary because I like to think it's a good example of what can happen in the face of a government that is oppressive and difficult. Is it, do you take hope from that or is it too different an experience than the American experience to be meaningful to us?
Speaker 20:
[37:20] It's part of the American experience. CPAC was funded by Hungary, Heritage Foundation is funded by Hungary. Orban was basically politically the daddy of Vance and of Trump. He was the master, they were the apprentice. This is a body blow to them. It undermines their view that theirs is the only kind of politics that can succeed. And in addition to that, on the positive side, it shows that you can win in conditions of what the political scientists call competitive authoritarianism. There's an election, it's a bit unfair, you've got to go uphill. But not only can you climb that hill, not only can you climb that mountain, you can get to the top and say, wow, we delivered a blistering victory, a walloping victory, which is what happened in Hungary. And it shows also how you do it, which is that you don't think of the election just about election day. You think of it as part of a larger process of building a big coalition, which includes all kinds of groups, not just the opposition party, and which includes practice by protest and practice by local organizing all along the way. That's what they did in Hungary. It's a positive model and it worked.
Speaker 4:
[38:20] Timothy Snyder, good to see you as always. Thank you for being with us, University of Toronto Professor Timothy Snyder. All right, coming back. You got to fight back. That was the overwhelming message from Virginia voters who fought back this week against Donald Trump's effort to keep Mike Johnson the majority leader in the House of Representatives. Next week we'll bring another chance for voters all across the country to show up and protest, this time with a special focus on the billionaires who are distorting our politics. Leah Greenberg, the co-founder of Indivisible, the group behind No Kings, joins us next.
Speaker 21:
[38:51] I'm Serena Williams and I'm healthier on Ro. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP-1's diet and exercise. On Ro, you can access GLP-1 options, including the first FDA approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. Go to ro.co. slash journey to see if you qualify. 14 to 20 percent average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2 percent to 3.1 percent in placebo art. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to ro.co. slash safety.
Speaker 22:
[39:23] Why have we asked our contractor we found on angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us.
Speaker 16:
[39:35] Are you my dad now?
Speaker 1:
[39:38] Uh, no.
Speaker 5:
[39:39] Sorry. I do basements.
Speaker 1:
[39:43] Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie. The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at angie.com.
Speaker 11:
[39:52] Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes.
Speaker 10:
[39:53] This week on my podcast, Why Is This Happening? Cryptocurrency and the Golden Age of Scams.
Speaker 16:
[39:58] Crypto markets operate 24-7, not like the regulated financial markets and they're gamified and all these things. And so for that small percentage of the population that develop gambling addictions, this stuff is like crack cocaine. It's really, really bad.
Speaker 9:
[40:11] That's this week on Why Is This Happening?
Speaker 13:
[40:13] Search for Why Is This Happening?
Speaker 10:
[40:14] We're every listening right now and follow.
Speaker 4:
[40:22] Since Donald Trump returned to the White House, voters have been finding lots of ways to register their opposition, not just in answering a poll or attending a protest, but at the ballot box, too. And we saw it again in Virginia this week when voters approved a redistricting amendment that many voters saw as a chance to weigh in on an out-of-control president and a Republican party that continues to enable him.
Speaker 23:
[40:45] I voted yes, as many people have said, to level the playing field. Um, you know, it was not started by us. And I feel that we had to, we had to react to things that were going on in other parts of the country. I think you have to fight back.
Speaker 4:
[41:02] That sentiment, that you have to fight back, is something we're hearing more and more at town halls, at local meetings and protests across the country. There's a growing sense of frustration, especially around the economy and the cost of living. Now more than 200 organizations are planning May Day actions on May 1st. This is really important. May 1st has historically been a day to celebrate labor and workers internationally, although it hasn't been so much in this country, with events expected in cities across the country focused on economic issues and worker concerns. Now Indivisible, the community action network that was part of the nationwide No Kings protests, is encouraging people to take part in this. This is not a centralized protest, and different communities are planning to express their opposition in different ways. Some organizers are urging people to skip work or school if they can, and to avoid spending money on May 1st. No work, no school, no shopping for the day. Think about that. Organizers describe this as a form of collective economic pressure in response to an administration trampling rights and prioritizing billionaires over working people. Remember, before there was no Kings, there was no Musk. The very first Indivisible protest of the Trump 2.0 era was against Doge and Elon Musk because people saw this billionaire gleefully wanting to take a chainsaw to their government and their services, their fellow workers, and strutting around the Oval Office like he owned the place and decided a year ago this month to say hands off to Musk and his minions. This stuff works. Joining us now is Leah Greenberg, co-founder and co-executive director of the Indivisible Project. Leah, thank you for being with us. Again, thank you for all your work. Let's discuss protests like May 1st. Let's talk about sort of an economic protest. How do you do something like that and make it effective? Because as you and I pointed out, sometimes it's great to see great crowds of people and aerial shots. But in fact, economic protests can be more effective or differently effective in different ways. But how do you protest on May 1st and let someone know that you're doing so?
Speaker 24:
[43:05] Well, we're thinking about this in terms of a slightly different strategy than some of our previous protests. Walkings is about getting the big popular front together for a major public show of defiance. This is actually about digging in and thinking about our leverage. What kind of leverage do we have as workers, as consumers, as students, as the people who actually power the economy in this country? And so this is a moment in which we are asking people to participate in a collective economic disruption that says no business as usual. We're tired of our country putting billionaires over workers. We want to see workers over billionaires.
Speaker 4:
[43:39] Does one, if one decides that they would like to take some action on May 1st, how do you do, what are the ways in which you do that, that register your protest and keep you safe? Are you boycotting all businesses or are you supporting local businesses but making sure you're not supporting big ones? Are you canceling the subscriptions to the media companies who you don't agree with? Are you telling work that you're not coming in because you're protesting?
Speaker 24:
[44:06] Depending on your individual circumstances, you might do some of those things or all of those things. What we are asking people to do is to participate in the ways that are meaningful and viable for them. That might mean calling in sick to work. That might mean boycotting consumer purchases for the day. That might mean reaching out to your local businesses and asking them to join you in participating in May Day and closing up for the day and being in partnership and relationship with them on an ongoing basis. What we are asking people to do is participate in some form in this collective act of economic disruption in order to send that shared message that we are the people who actually power the economy.
Speaker 4:
[44:47] Protests in this country and in other countries that have worked specifically as they relate to workers or school or economic boycotts, Apartheid was a very good example of this. They sometimes have a day around which they could organize, but it's never just a day. It's conceptualizing the idea that you have power as a worker, you have power as a student, you have power as a consumer, but it could take a long time.
Speaker 24:
[45:13] That's exactly right. What we're seeing is that the organizing and the actions right now are kicking off conversations in workplaces, in communities, in among people who are already organizing about how do we more effectively leverage, how do we build as coalitions together? What more can we do to ensure that our economic power supports the values and the kind of society that we want to see, and that we're not putting all that in the service of corporations that are ultimately feeling this destructive agenda from the White House?
Speaker 4:
[45:43] Leah, it's always great to talk to you. It's empowering. Thank you again for what you do and thank you for being with us tonight.
Speaker 24:
[45:49] Great to be here.
Speaker 25:
[45:50] Why have I asked my HVAC guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts. I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.
Speaker 7:
[46:02] Make it quick, young man.
Speaker 25:
[46:05] Aw, see? Pop Pop trusts you.
Speaker 16:
[46:08] I think we should call the doctor.
Speaker 1:
[46:11] Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years.
Speaker 8:
[46:14] Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust.
Speaker 1:
[46:17] Find pros for all your home projects at angie.com.