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[00:02] Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice. Today I'm discussing the case of the Fisher family. In April 2001, first responders were called to the scene of an explosion and house fire in Scottsdale, Arizona. But as investigators started piecing together what happened, it became clear they were dealing with a lot more than property damage or arson. It was a triple homicide, sparking one of the largest manhunts in the history of Arizona. This is the case of the Fisher family. Scottsdale, Arizona consistently ranks among the happiest and safest cities in the country. People from all across the globe make the move for their amazing schools, booming job market, and overall quality of life. While Scottsdale isn't shielded from the intense heat of summer, most people come for the high-end shopping and restaurants, resorts, golf courses, hiking, and spas. In 1993, it was coined the most livable city, a title they proudly promote on signs across the city even today. Some kind of see it as this shelter from the crime and poverty rates of Phoenix, despite being right next door. But as we know, even the cities that feel the safest aren't protected from reality. That's exactly what South Scottsdale realized on the morning of Tuesday, April 10th, 2001. Around 8:30 a.m., a deep boom was heard for miles. But the homes near the intersection of Scottsdale and McDowell Roads felt it. In that neighborhood, homes began to shake, and some of the windows even shattered. Then the 911 calls started. Some reported a fire at 2223 North 74th Place, but most of them said that an entire house had exploded, and it sounded like a bomb went off. One caller told the dispatcher that everyone in the house was probably dead, and urged them to come before the neighbor's house caught fire too. Dispatchers listened as they received call after call, urging them to come as quickly as possible. We're on right to take. 34th Street and Albury. We hear explosions. I put lollies. And a fire. And a fire. Big fire. Can you see it? Big fire. You bet I can't see it. The house just exploded and ignited on fire. Okay. Think fire exploded. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and ask Fairmakes. If you see anything else, give me a call, okay? You bet. Same answer, Mike. Hi. We got a fire and a big explosion. In the general area of 7400, 71st Street and Oak. Yes. I just heard like an explosion or something. Around 7400? Yes. We do have the fire and a big explosion already. Okay. What's going on there? It's a big fire. What? A big fire. It just like blew up. Okay. What's on fire? The whole house. The whole house? The whole house burning up. There's a tunnel on the highway. They hit all every damn time there's a fire. There's gotta come in on all of them. It didn't have 74% else of the fire? That's it. There are people in there. The whole house exploding. Okay. We do have to leave the fire on the way? Will there be people inside the house? And all the trash doors are gonna catch on fire too. Okay. I'm telling the officers right now that people are inside the house. I know why. Do you know how many people, sir? I don't know how many people. Neighbors quickly sprang into action. Thanks for watching. If you liked the video, please subscribe to the channel. We'll see you in the next one. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! The first firefighter on the scene said that he immediately recognized the all too familiar smell of burning bodies. As neighbors urged firefighters that a family of four lived in the home, they were forced to take a defensive position from the outside to contain the blaze, deeming it far too unsafe to enter for any body. Deeming it far too unsafe to enter for any possible rescue. And as they did, they continued to hear more sounds of explosions and popping from inside the house. But in just a matter of minutes, most of the house had burned to the ground. Once it was finally safe to enter the home, they began looking for any possible survivors from the Fisher family. Detectives TJ Duran and John Kirkham from the Scottsdale PD were also called to the scene. While most of the home was gone, there was still some framing left and the semblance of a floor plan. In each bedroom, they found a body lying in bed. I've seen the photos and they're not easy to look at, but it's basically bones, ash, and the metal coils from the mattress that remained. There was no sign that anyone even attempted to escape the house after the explosion. In the documentary, Where is Robert Fisher, Detective Duran went as far as to say that they looked like they were lying comfortably in bed when the explosion happened. He and Detective Kirkham immediately knew that they were dealing with a triple homicide. And that night, the local news reported that while the remains of 38-year-old Mary, 12-year-old Brittany, and 10-year-old Bobby Fisher had been recovered from the scene, the patriarch of the family, 39-year-old Robert Fisher, was missing. After an explosion and house fire in South Scottsdale, many agencies had their work cut out for them. And everything kind of happens at once. They needed to investigate the source of the fire, the cause of death of the three members of the Fisher family found inside, and find missing Robert Fisher. But let's start with the fire. Investigators quickly realized that this was no accident. Gasoline was poured throughout the bedrooms, and onto the bodies of Mary, Brittany, and Bobby. They also discovered a broken natural gas line from the furnace. They determined that the home filled with this gas for several hours before finally being ignited by a candle placed in the hallway between the bedrooms. That's what triggered the larger explosion. They also found a firecracker and a battery attached to wire and foil paper. It was clear that whoever did this knew exactly what they were doing, and had many fail-safes in place to ensure that the home would burn down. Now let's talk about how Mary, Brittany, and Bobby passed. None of the three victims had soot in their lungs. They died before the explosion and the fire. They were either in bed when they passed or placed in them after. Though most investigators do lean towards them being killed in their sleep. Ten-year-old Bobby Fisher's body was the least burned. He was found face down in his bed in his briefs. This position did protect his chest and forearms from the flames. His cause of death was a deep laceration to his throat. So deep it went all the way to his cervical vertebrae and nearly decapitated him. The same goes for 12-year-old Brittany and her mother, 38-year-old Mary. Investigators believe all three had their throats slit in their sleep, nearly decapitating them. Now, identifying their bodies wasn't easy. Forensic anthropologists were called in to perform bone impressions on the remains. And at first, Brittany's body was initially mistaken for her mom's. But there was one thing that set them apart. The medical examiner determined that Mary was the only one who had also been shot in the head. That was after x-rays revealed bullet fragments in her skull. Detectives have coined this the F-U shot. It was clear this was an extremely violent and intentional set of crimes. And for obvious reasons, the story was all over the news for days. It seemed like the whole world was talking about the Fisher family. But only one member was still very noticeably absent. Robert Fisher, Mary's husband and the father of their two children. Missing with him was the family's SUV and their dog, Blue. So, let's talk about Robert Fisher and his last known movements. The day before the fire, Robert attended work as usual at the Mayo Clinic, where he worked as a respiratory therapist. But he did leave early to attend a ceremony at Brittany's school, where she was inducted into the National Junior Honor Society. Robert's coworkers say he was in a good mood and excited for his daughter. While Robert and Brittany were at the school, Mary took Bobby to their church for a hunting safety course. After that, Robert changed the oil in his truck, which was later found charred in the driveway and left behind. But something seemed to happen in the home that night, because neighbors told investigators that at about 10 p.m., they could hear Robert and Mary fighting. Then at 10:42 p.m., Robert's scene on surveillance video in Mary's 2000 Silver Toyota 4Runner at a Bank One ATM near his home. There he withdrew $280 in cash, the maximum daily limit for the account. In that black and white video, he's wearing an Oakland Raiders baseball hat, a long-sleeved t-shirt and hiking boots. Then Robert fails to show up for work the following morning. Now at this point, Robert isn't a suspect. Investigators are hoping he hears the news of what happened at his home and comes back to help. He was truly a pillar in the community, so they don't have much reason to believe he killed his entire family and ran. That is, until they dig deeper. Now that we know Robert's movements before the murders, let's start from the very beginning to get a better understanding of who this man really is. Robert was born in Brooklyn, New York, on April 13th, 1961. So all this happened just days before his 40th birthday. He was the middle child between two sisters, and at some point the family moves to Tucson, Arizona, where Robert spends most of his childhood. But while he's in high school at the age of 14, his parents get divorced, which left a lasting impact on him. His younger sister Jean said that out of all the siblings, Robert took the divorce the hardest. Because of this, he would often say that he would never put his children through a divorce. According to reporting by Anne Ryman for the Arizona Republic who outlines Robert's past in detail, in 1979, Robert graduated from Saguaro High School and joined the Navy. He was stationed in San Diego, California, and became trained in aircraft handling and fuels. But after failing to meet the standards to become a Navy Seal, Robert was extremely disappointed and chose not to reenlist in 1982. However, he did use the knowledge he gained in the Navy to obtain a position as a firefighter with the Borrego Springs Fire Protection District in San Diego County. Then in 1984, he met Mary through a social group at his Baptist church. She was beautiful with blonde hair and blue eyes. They were married within a year. Not long after, however, Robert got hurt on a call. This resulted in back surgery and a medical discharge. In 1986, Robert and Mary moved back to Arizona, where her family was from as well. The three-bedroom home they purchased on 74th Place was close to Mary's parents, which was helpful as they welcomed their first child, Brittany Jean, in 1988. She actually made the news. Well, kind of. On May 11, 1989, when Robert was 28 years old, he and Brittany were featured on the local news after Robert shot a dog. So let's get into it. He says that at about 3 p.m. while he was leaving for work, he saw a stray dog, a 70-pound pit bull in his front yard, and it was growling at him. Robert's 75-pound black lab named Ruger came out the front door. Robert tried to call him back, but the two dogs began fighting, specifically under the swing that Brittany was in. So Robert said he went inside, grabbed his nine-millimeter, and fired one shot at the dog from four feet away. The pit bull walked off and Robert took his dog Ruger to the vet to be treated for cuts. The pit bull was eventually picked up by animal control and treated for the wound. The man who saw and reported the injured pit bull to animal control told John Shoder with the Arizona Republic that it appeared the dog was shot in the back with the exit wound through the stomach. The pit bull survived, but Robert Fisher was not sighted, nor did he face any charges. The following year in 1990, William Jr. or Bobby was born. Now, by this time, Robert obtained an associate degree in the medical field and transitioned his career to working as both a respiratory therapist and cardiovascular technician. He still had issues with his back, but he was able to maintain a career. Like I mentioned earlier, he was eventually hired at the Mayo Clinic Hospital, where he was described as prompt, reliable, compassionate, and friendly. And Mary worked part-time at a medical supply company. They were very much this picture of a perfect family from the outside. Robert worked hard to provide for his family, while Mary mostly stayed home. Brittany excelled in school as well as in basketball and softball, and Bobby played the trumpet. In home videos, Robert's really seen as this great family man, teaching his kids how to swim and ride a bike. In his off time, he enjoyed hunting and camping. But those around the family say that Robert was far from perfect. He was controlling and sometimes outright mean to Mary. Despite also working, she was expected to keep the house immaculately clean on her own. Some of Mary's friends say that Robert wouldn't even allow a junk drawer in the home, and demanded that every item in the home be organized. And there were more stories. The Fishers and other families would often go on camping trips together, or they'd report that Robert really just bossed Mary around, and was her job to do basically everything involving cooking, cleaning, and the kids. Family friend Beth Rodin recalls one trip where Mary forgot to pack salt and pepper, so she just used the Rodin seasonings instead. Though Robert was served a seasoned steak, he continually chastised Mary for forgetting the seasonings. Robert was also controlling with money. He paid the bills, but anything extra had to come from Mary's paychecks, like the family computer, her sewing machine, and any treats or fast food for the kids. He also put Mary on a schedule, demanding they have sex at least every other day. Mary expressed irritation with Robert's high sex drive, telling one friend, quote, I think he just wants to because he can. Five minutes and it's no big deal. It was like dishes, laundry, sex, end quote. Now, despite Robert's extreme aversion to divorce, it sure seemed like he wasn't trying to avoid it. In 1998, he cheated on Mary, stating he had an encounter during a massage. But Mary wasn't a pushover. She'd often stand up to Robert, and in this instance, kicked him out of the house completely. So Robert drove north to a forest near Payson, Arizona, where he decided to camp until Mary would take him back. He also wrote Mary a letter basically threatening to die by suicide if she didn't. He told her he would stay in the woods for a month to ruminate on his actions, but he came home just a few days later. After this, he pledged to be a better husband and a better person. He attended church more often, kept Bible verses in his pocket, helped his community and his friends. But in December 2000, just a few months before the murders, it seems there was another incident. Robert went in for a massage and came back with a urinary tract infection. He told a friend that the encounter didn't involve sex technically, but it was close, and he disclosed his fear that his wife and family would find out, specifically from the church. This really seems like the time when Robert began to change a lot. He took a step back from the church, he stopped going to the gym, and he began taking heavy medications for pain and anxiety. Things weren't great between he and Mary, and it's unclear she ever found out about the second incident of cheating. But Robert continually told those around him that divorce was not an option, and it appeared that the week of the murders, he did have plans to spend more time with his family. He'd requested that Friday off so he could go camping with his wife and children for his 40th birthday. Like I told you earlier, he'd even changed the oil in his truck. Investigators also discovered that he'd purchased a water filter and dozens of water filtration tablets, possibly for the trip. So after investigators realized the Fisher family home wasn't an accidental fire, and there was a triple homicide, they were a bit split on what to think about Robert. He surely wasn't the perfect husband, but was he capable of killing his entire family? Was he another victim in this or was he the perpetrator? Well, they definitely had their suspicions because on April 14th, the Arizona Department of Public Safety issued a statewide bulletin declaring Robert Fisher a person of interest in the case, and calling for his arrest. Then, just 10 days after the Fisher home exploded, law enforcement found another major clue. It was Mary's missing SUV, a hundred miles from home. On April 20th, 2001, 10 days after most of the Fisher family was found murdered in their burnt down home, a local man spotted Mary Fisher's missing Toyota 4Runner a hundred miles away in the Tonto National Forest near Payson, Arizona, not far from where Robert liked to camp. Specifically, it was found off a pretty bumpy dirt road, Ponderosa Road. It was also just 300 yards west of the border of the Fort Apache reservation. The witness added that not long after seeing the 4Runner, they saw a man matching Robert's description walking north on the road with a backpack. So obviously this changes everything if the man seen leaving the scene was truly Robert Fisher. While investigators certainly had their suspicions that Robert may have been the person who killed his family, this basically cemented it for them. So let's talk about the scene. The inside of the 4Runner has been described as clean as a whistle and neatly organized, just the way Robert liked it. They believe the vehicle was cleaned after it was parked to remove any forensic evidence as well, because they didn't find any. But inside, they also found the Oakland Raiders baseball cap Robert was wearing in the surveillance video. There was also a coffee mug, camping chair, handwritten directions, a map, a book and some loose change. What seemed to be missing was any luggage, cash and the.357 Magnum revolver Robert was known to carry at all times. It was actually the only gun missing from the house after the fire. The same gun investigators would later speculate was used to shoot Mary, since every other gun found in the house was not a match to her wounds after ballistic testing. Now, while the inside of the forerunner was very clean, the same can't be said for the outside, as investigators discovered human feces near the door. As investigators believe the shot to Mary's head was likely the F-U shot, as they say, they believe this may have been another deliberate statement from Robert Fisher. They also discovered something under the forerunner. It was Blue, the family's two-year-old Queensland healer mix. He's been described as well-trained, and Mary was the one who took him on walks, but each night, Bobby was the one Blue crawled into bed with. So he wasn't an aggressive animal, but he was obviously terrified. He wasn't tethered, but he did make himself a bed under the SUV. He also had nearly 100 porcupine quills in his nose, so he was also in pain. Understandably, when members of law enforcement tried to catch him, he ran. So they called in an expert, a veterinarian from Payson named Patty Blackmore. She was actually performing surgery when she got the call about Blue. But as soon as it was over, she grabbed a friend and headed out to the forest. She told Ann Ryman with the Arizona Republic that officers asked her if she brought a stun gun for Blue. And she told them that they watched way too much TV. Now as she's getting closer to Blue, she noticed that investigators brought in a tow truck to load up Mary's forerunner. And she immediately shut that down, explaining that the vehicle was the only thing keeping Blue in the area. She theorized that Blue was likely left in the SUV with the windows down, but eventually jumped out the window to search for food or to chase the porcupine. But Blue eventually returned, hoping Robert would come back for him. So she shuts all that down, makes them lead the SUV where it's at, and she goes for Blue. She even tells the officers to stay in their cars while she handles it. I love her. She's like, get out of the way, stop doing what you're doing, I'm going to get this dog. And she used the very scientific method of throwing pieces of doughnut to Blue until she could get close enough to slip a leash over his head. No stun gun needed. She does tranquilize him though, so she could remove the porcupine quills. Now, with Blue secured and removed from the scene, investigators and search teams begin scouring the area for Robert Fisher. They weren't immediately allowed on the reservation, so they looked in the other direction while tribal rangers conducted their own separate searches. It quickly became one of the largest manhunts in Arizona history. About 200 law enforcement officers from Scottsdale PD, Gila County Sheriff's Office, and the White Mountain Apache Rangers joined in. Now, like I mentioned, this is a forest, a true forest. So ground teams, including canine units, are looking through rugged terrain, thick vegetation, and really what's been described as a labyrinth of at least 30 caves. The prevailing theory at this point was that Robert may be hiding in one of these caves with his gun ready to shoot as they moved in. They were treating him as armed and extremely dangerous. From above, there were several helicopters assisting in the search. But it seems like they were really betting on him being in one of these caves. Robert did have a history of exploring caves and spelunking before he went into the Navy. They speculated he might be able to hide underground for weeks without coming out. And while they were able to get into most areas of these caves, they also sent specialized sewer cameras into tighter areas. But they did not see Robert Fisher. The only thing they really found were footprints leading to a spring. These were followed, but the trail eventually ended. They searched for a few days before calling it off due to the lack of leads and the unseasonable snowstorms in the area. But of course, this was major news not only in Arizona, but across the country. There was a suspected family annihilator on the run. Now, while the search was massive manpower-wise, it's also been highly criticized. One neighbor says that the SWAT teams they used were not trained to search wilderness areas like this, and they felt that the search area of one square mile around the SUV just wasn't enough. And then we find out something that is going to upset everyone. Or at least it really upset me. A man named Herb Greenback, an acquaintance of Robert, comes forward. He says that he had already given the police a tip to go search the Tonto National Forest. He didn't know Robert well, but they'd gone camping together a few weeks before the murders. When he saw what happened on the news, he called investigators on the night of the fire and told them about the trip. He said Robert Fisher was acting very odd. He'd pointed out a commune in the area and said, you can't find them. And at the end of the trip, Robert told him he didn't think he'd be doing this anymore. It was all kind of cryptic, but he did the right thing and told police all of this and urged them to take a look in the Tonto National Forest. But for some reason, they waited until they got that second tip of the man who saw the SUV and maybe Robert walking north from the scene. Basically, had they followed Greenback's tip, Robert Fisher may have been caught. Instead, he had potentially a 10-day head start. Like we see in so many cases, investigators were basically just left with theories. Did Robert go into a cave and die by suicide? Was the forerunner just a red herring to distract investigators? Did he meet up with a possible accomplice who got him out of the area? And why did he bring Blue? They seemed to have a lot of questions and few answers as this turned from a local to a national manhunt. Then, on July 19th, the FBI announced that Robert Fisher was officially charged with three counts of first-degree murder, one count of arson of an occupied structure, and one count of unlawful flight. Just ten days later, he was added to the FBI's Top Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. As of 2025, the odds of someone on this list being caught were about nine out of ten historically. So, this is a huge deal. Just a few weeks later, Robert Fisher was featured on America's Most Wanted, and about a week after that, their hotline got a call from a man who said, quote, This is Robert Fisher. You will never catch me. And I'm glad I killed the bitch. End quote. And only lasted a few seconds. And for some reason, it wasn't recorded. But investigators traced the call to a payphone outside of a pizza parlor in Chester, Virginia. And the FBI is ready. They issue a federal arrest warrant now, assuming that he's crossed eight lines. They set up a surveillance detail outside of the pizza parlor. But Robert Fisher is not found. Also, the owner of the pizza parlor was a little annoyed. Nor he or his employees say that they saw anyone matching Robert Fisher's description in or around the restaurant. And he stressed that local kids often use the payphone to decide to make prank calls. Now they did grab prints from the payphone, and they were not a match to Robert's. Luckily, they did have Robert's fingerprints from his time in the Navy. But in the end, several behavioral analysts also believe that nothing about this call fits Robert's personality. And it would have been extremely foolish for him to give away his location in this manner, especially considering how meticulously the murders appeared to have been thought out. But this does officially remain a question in this case, because we don't have the audio to match to Robert's voice. There were really countless unconfirmed sightings of Robert Fisher over the years. The case was a full-time job for several agents. But part of the problem was that Robert looked like a lot of people. He's white, six foot tall, weighs about 190 pounds with brown hair and blue eyes. He also has a very average looking face. So while hundreds, if not thousands of tips are investigated and cleared, none seem to bring them any closer to finding Robert Fisher. That is, until 2004, when they get a call from a man in Canada saying he knows he just saw Robert. Not only did this man look like him, he was six feet tall with brown hair and blue eyes, but he also had some of the same very hyperspecific features, including a matching lower back surgical scar that Robert had after his back surgery. The man was also missing the exact tooth that Robert had a gold cap on. So, investigators head to Canada to arrest Robert Fisher. In February 2004, investigators travel to White Rock, British Columbia to arrest Robert Fisher. Now White Rock is right over the U.S.-Canadian border. So not only was this a pretty perfect match to Robert Fisher looks-wise, if he traveled to the Pacific Northwest looking to leave the country, this location made perfect sense. So they go into a White Rock home with full force. They bust down the door, guns locked and loaded, and take this man into custody. And here they do something rather unprecedented. At least, I've never seen it before. Let me know if you have. They bring in one of Robert Fisher's neighbors to help identify him, a man named Wayne Rhoda. He lived next door to the Fishers for several years. But because he's just a civilian, they kind of have to unofficially book him into jail as an inmate, so he can legally be allowed in the same room as the man they just arrested. That's a lot. But Rhoda says as soon as the man came in the door, they locked eyes and immediately recognized each other. After speaking with him, Rhoda says that without a doubt, the man was Robert Fisher. He says his voice, mannerisms, and body language were all exactly the same. After three years, they just found Robert Fisher. Once again, this was huge. Journalists flew from all around the world to White Rock and camped outside of the police station looking for any update. But that was short-lived. Apparently, when they fingerprinted the man, they were not a match to Robert Fisher, and he was let go. Some theorize to this day that it was really him, arguing that fingerprints can be changed. They also point to the fact that for some reason, White Rock Police purged all records of this incident. Though that may have been correlated to threats from the man's lawyer to sue the department. We don't know who this man was. He was actually escorted out of the jail with a blanket over his head to protect his identity. But we do know that his lawyer, Matthew Nathanson, was vocal about his client's innocence and the way he was treated. He said it was highly irresponsible for a SWAT team to kick down his door without vetting the tip better. However, in the end, it doesn't seem that the man ever sued. And there was never a good explanation for why the records of this incident were purged. It's another strange question mark in this case. Unfortunately, this really was the best tip that they've ever gotten in this case. But of course, there were many more sightings over the years that people still wonder about. Around 2007, a tip came in from Cherry Creek, not far from where the forerunner was found. An elderly man went into a store, saw a wanted poster for Robert Fisher, and became agitated, asking the clerk, quote, Why do you have my friend's picture? End quote. He then said that the man in the photo lived with him on his ranch and was like a son to him. But the man and the supposed ranch were never found. In 2009, tourists at a bodega in South America took a picture of a man who looked like Robert Fisher. When the man realized his photo had been taken, he became confrontational and demanded they give him the camera. In a report from Guatemala, tourists in a marketplace took a photo of another man who looked like Robert Fisher. This man also became very irate and reportedly said, quote, I've killed before and I'll kill again, end quote. According to the podcast, Finding Robert by True Crime Arizona's Brianna Whitney, investigators were stunned when they saw the photos. Detective TJ Durand said that his heart jumped and it was the closest lookalike he'd ever seen. The man was wearing a visor and sunglasses, but his dimple and forehead were nearly identical. Even Robert's sister Jean thought this was her brother. But the man was tracked down and rolled out. It was another dead end, but not the last of the sightings. In 2014, officers in Denver pursued a tip from a man who said that he was sure he'd just met Robert Fisher. When the man was approached by officers, he fled the scene. But it appears that that's because he had meth in his pocket. His prints were not a match to Robert's. And then in 2021, Robert Fisher was officially removed from the FBI's top 10 most wanted list due to a lack of confirmed sightings. That makes Robert Fisher one of the less than 10% on that list to evade capture or recovery. Though he does remain on the FBI's broader most wanted fugitives list. Really, like I say, in the end, all we're left with are theories. So let's go over what most investigators believe happened to the Fisher family. They think Robert knew Mary was going to ask him for a divorce due to a second incident of infidelity or that she already had. And we know that for Robert, divorce was not an option. So he decided to kill his family instead. Most investigators believe he likely killed Mary, Brittany and Bobby on the night of April 9th, 2001, after he fought with Mary. After they all went to bed, they believe he killed them one by one and shot Mary in the head using his 357 Magnum revolver that was never recovered. After that, he loaded up the forerunner with a variety of supplies, possibly the water purification system and tablets he purchased not long before. Then he rigged the house to blow using his experience working as a firefighter. He cut the gas line, covered the home and bodies of his family with gasoline, set those additional fail-safes, the firecracker and the battery, before placing the candle as basically a timer. Once it burned to the bottom where the gas was, or the home was filled with enough of the natural gas to ignite the candle, the house would blow. But he and Blue would be long gone by then. They'd have about a ten-hour head start. From here, there are really only four prevailing theories. One, that Robert Fisher died by suicide in the woods in northern Arizona. Detective John Henselman from the Scottsdale PD says this is his top theory, given the lack of confirmed sightings for about two decades now. The second theory is that Robert Fisher is living a secret life. Now, this is kind of split into two different sections, living in the wilderness or adapting back into society undercover. While at first it does seem reasonable to think that Robert may have survived in the wilderness given his love of the outdoors, those who are close to him have a hard time believing this. They say that even when Robert was camping in ideal conditions, he had a hard time keeping up on hikes and even carrying his pack due to the pain in his back. He was really known to complain about it constantly. This leads us to the second part of this theory, that Robert escaped and possibly is living undercover somewhere. Herb Greenback, that man who first told police to go look in the Tonto National Forest, says he thinks Robert may have stashed a motorcycle in the woods to get away. He says that while they were on that camping trip a few weeks before the murders, they met a man at a bar near Rye, Arizona. And he told Robert how he could ride a motorcycle through the mountains and the wilderness for hours without seeing civilization. And Greenback says that Robert was entirely engulfed in this conversation. He kept asking the man questions about the route he took, if the roads were desolate, and how much activity was really in the area. In the documentary Finding Robert Fisher, the filmmakers tested this theory and confirmed that it was possible. There were unmapped back roads so rugged that only a motorcycle could pass through, and the roads would lead him out of town. The third theory is that he died of natural causes somewhere along the way. And the last, really least popular theory is that Robert is innocent, and somehow a victim in all of this. This has mostly been supported by Robert's younger sister Jean. She's hopeful that the FBI is wrong about him, and says they just haven't found enough information to point to anyone else. She argues that none of it makes sense to her. She says the weekend before the murders, Robert had just fixed their air conditioner, and was close to paying off the mortgage. To her, there was no indication that he would have done something like this. Though I do think it's worth noting that Mary's family, specifically her father, was quite outspoken about his belief that Robert killed Mary, Brittany, and Bobby before his death a few years later. So those are the top four theories discussed in this case. But I want to bring it back to one major question most people have no matter the theory they subscribe to. Why did he bring their dog Blue with him? Well, some investigators believe he wanted Blue to live. He wasn't in great shape when he was found, but he was fed. It seems like maybe he thought Blue would be found safely in the forerunner and rescued. Others believe he intended on taking Blue with him on the journey entirely, but either changed his mind and left him behind, or Blue instinctively ran back to the forerunner after his unfortunate encounter with the porcupine. But FBI Special Agent Taylor Hanna thinks that Robert Fisher may not have even given it a second thought and just instinctively brought Blue with him. Either way, I do have some good news about Blue in the middle of this very unfortunate story. I'm going to try my best not to get emotional because I was sobbing when I researched this, when I wrote it, and when I tried to record this. But after he was found, investigators received countless offers from concerned citizens who wanted to adopt Blue. But Patty Blackmore, the vet who fed him the donuts, wouldn't have any of it. She adopted Blue herself. He joined a family of two other dogs and one cat. She kept his name, but they'd often call him Duck because of the funny honking noises he would make after he settled down. And in 2011, they all moved to a big farm near the border of Missouri and Illinois, where he spent the rest of his days hiking and running with horses. Blue lived with Patty and her family for 12 years until he passed away at the age of 14. She said he was a great dog. And that's pretty much where the case is today. Robert Fisher's fingerprints have been uploaded to a national database should he ever be arrested. This year also marks 25 years that Robert Fisher has been on the run. His warrants are still active, and investigators say that they get about one to two tips a week on the case that they do follow up on. Detective John Henselman of the Scottsdale Police Department is the current lead detective on the case, and he told Ann Ryman for ABC 15 News that he can always tell when the case is featured on a TV show or podcast, because they get a sudden and much appreciated influx of tips. Which brings me right to our call to action. Please share this case. It's easy to assume that if a case hasn't been solved by now, it never will be. But, history has shown us that fugitives are found because someone recognizes a face, remembers a detail, or finally decides to speak up. That's why sharing still matters. It matters on social media, it matters in conversations, and it matters every time this story reaches someone new. If you feel compelled to do something after hearing this case, start there, share it. Because even after all these years, visibility can still lead to answers for the loved ones of the Fisher family. As a reminder, Robert William Fisher is wanted for allegedly killing his wife and two children, and them blowing up the house they all lived in in Scottsdale, Arizona on April 10th, 2001. He is white, six foot tall, weighs approximately 190 pounds with brown hair and blue eyes. He has surgical scars on his back. As of this recording, he would be 65 years old. Anyone with information is asked to contact the Scottsdale Police Department at 480-312-5000 or your local FBI office. You can also submit a tip anonymously online at tips.fbi.gov. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice Media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player. It's an easy and free way to help us and help more people find these cases in need of justice. Welcome to the Secret After Show. The studio door is open, and our emotional support puppies, Popcorn and Teeber, are in the room. Let's get right into the case. I feel like that while this case is obviously huge in Arizona, it's kind of been forgotten by the true crime community. So I just wanted to shed some light on it, hopefully get Robert's picture out there, and maybe we'll find him. Stranger things have happened. Now, I do have a few things on my list. Number one is the human feces on the outside of the forerunner. There were detectives often talked about, like I said, the shot to Mary, which they call the F-U shot. I think this really just adds to it. This, to me, if this was Robert, was a very angry person. It seemed like he was scorned, he was trying to get back at everyone. I don't know. I mean, putting the human feces on the outside, is it like he wanted them to touch it? I don't know. That really just like, it's one of those things where, for some reason, I just can't stop thinking about it. Why do this? Why do it if not just to like, think that somebody's gonna have to touch it and that's really gross? Like, especially given what a clean individual people say he was. I don't know. There's so many weird things in this case, and that was one of the things on my list. If you have any insight, if you've ever seen anything like that in a case before, let me know. Next on my list was that Canada sighting, that whole thing. Also, so weird. So weird, the fact that the neighbor went in and was like, yep, this is our guy. Like, no doubt in my mind, this is Robert Fisher. It looks like him. When we locked eyes, we recognized each other. You know, the mannerisms, the way he spoke. This dude was like, yes, we have found Robert Fisher. Like, I will put my word on this, that this was my neighbor. And then the fingerprints didn't match. And then the records were gone. I don't know. That one is really weird to me. And I really try not to lean into conspiracy theories and truth and true crime. But nothing about that makes sense to me. Next, I have police not following up on Greenback's lead about Northern Arizona. And I put HHHS all in capital letters. Like, ah, I hate to see it. I hate to see it. They got this tip literally the night, the night of the fire. And it wasn't until they got the second tip that they actually went up and investigated. And clearly, like, we don't know if it was really Robert Fisher, right? It seems likely that it was. Most investigators believe it was. But we know that it was Mary's forerunner. It's just, it's so hard to see things like that. Because all the what-ifs go through your mind. What if they just followed his tip, went up there right away? I don't know. But let's go on to media discrepancies. We've been on a roll, you guys. I have to say that, like, it was pretty solid. Most media on this case was pretty solid. There were a few things timeline-wise that I think we figured out. While we're here, I wanted to give a shout-out to Anne Ryman, who's been covering this case for years. Also the teams behind both the Finding Robert Fisher documentary, which was also a podcast in part by the amazing Brianna Whitney, which you guys, I talk about her all the time. Talk about her all the time. She is a fantastic local journalist here in Arizona. She just does great work. I'll also say she came out to the search for my sister. I was asked if I wanted to invite any local media out there. It's good for the organizations, right? I knew that Brianna would be respectful, which is why I picked her. But more so, we wanted to highlight the Light the Way Foundation, the Gabby Petito Foundation and Dylan's Legacy, the three nonprofits that made the search happen. And the only person, I shouldn't say the only person, but the first person that came to mind was Brianna Whitney, because I knew that she would cover it in a respectful way. And if something happened that we needed to keep private, she would do that. And she did. So shout out to Brianna Whitney. I will sing her praises every chance I get. And she does have a podcast, The True Crime Arizona Podcast, where again, this case was featured. She's featured a ton of other cases as well. She is someone who truly cares. Also the Where Is Robert Fisher documentary, which even though they sound very similar, they are very different productions. So those three places in particular were absolutely invaluable to making this episode. And if you really want to go on a deep dive and learn even more, those are great places to do it. But let's go on to our hero of the episode. And I'm already getting choked up because of course number one is Patty Blackmore. Hi, the vet who adopted Blue, you guys. Because we know that the anniversary of this, you know, horrific crime, and I'm not trying to lessen it. It's just something about Blue just gets me. And on the anniversary of the crime, so many stories ran that were like, what happened to Blue? Everybody wants to know what happened to Blue. There are so many stories about what happened to Blue. And I think it's because in the midst of something so horrific, obviously, it's just such a beautiful thing. And I really loved how Patty got to the scene and was just like bossing the cops around. She was like, you watch too much TV. I do not have a stun gun. You stay in the car. I've got these donuts. I'm going to get this dog. And then she did, and then she adopted him, and he lived the best life. And the rest of his years on a big old farm where he got to hike and he got to play with horses. And I just loved that. So shout out to you, Patty Blackmore. You are an amazing human. Second is Herb Greenback, the guy who immediately told the police. He was like, the night of, I went camping with this dude. Super weird. He's probably up there. You need to go look for him. Shout out to you. I'm sorry they didn't follow the tip. You were right. But let's go on to our segment of hope. This is from KBTX3 from, it just says via a CNN news source, but the title reads, FBI NAB's most wanted fugitive accused of killing two women in record 73 minutes. So 33-year-old Samuel Ramirez Jr. was arrested in Mexico, this is, sorry, March of 2026. Seventy-three minutes, you guys, after he was added to the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. It's officially the fastest capture in agency history. Now, this man, Samuel Ramirez Jr., again, he was on the run for about three years. But the second he was put on that list, whatever, 73 minutes later, they got him. And this was involving, I'm reading right from the article, the shooting that killed two bar employees, 37-year-old Katie Dunk and 36-year-old Jessica Hone. And a 25-year-old customer was also injured. And it seemed like it was really unexpected. They say that this guy came into the bar, he was fun, he was interacting with a bunch of people. And then out in the parking lot, there was a dispute, and Ramirez hit one of the women. A customer who witnessed the incident tackled the suspect to the ground and punched him. Court documents say Ramirez told the man he was done fighting. The customer backed off, and that's when the suspect reached into his pocket and pulled out a handgun. He shot and killed both Dunk and Hone and then fired at the customer. He was shot at nine times, and apparently only one bullet hit him in the arm. Then of course Ramirez fled and was later found in Mexico and apprehended 73 minutes after being put on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. Obviously, I thought that this made a good segment of hope for this episode because of the odds. That's one part that gets me with this case so much. It's something like a 92% chance that if you're on that list, you're gonna get caught. And it's insane to me that Robert Fisher just hasn't. So this made our segment of hope for obvious reasons. Not only is it pretty neat, but it's like the fastest apprehension in history at this point. But I think it just proves how effective that list is. And even after 25 years, you guys know what I'm gonna say. There's always hope. But as always, thank you, I love you and I'll talk to you next time.