transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:06] This is Earthfiles, the award-winning news site with the latest updates in science, environment and real X-Files. Podcasting in-depth reports beyond the 6 o'clock news by Emmy award-winning journalist Linda Moulton Howe.

Speaker 2:
[00:28] Hi, everyone, here and around the world. Today, July 26th, 2023, was an historic day in Washington, DC after an actual serious two-hour hearing this morning in the Rayburn Building by the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's National Security Subcommittee led by Tennessee Representative Tim Burchett. This very important congressional hearing was entitled, quote, unidentified anomalous phenomena, implications on national security, public safety, and government transparency, close quote. Over the past few weeks, Representative Burchett had already told reporters that, quote, we're done with the cover-ups and UFO, UAPs are either something extra- terrestrial or a secret government project. And if the answer is extra- terrestrial, would people panic? Representative Burchett's answer, quote, look at the polls, more people believe in UFOs than believe in Congress, close quote. This morning, there were testimonies from three military sources who have spoken before in news programs about their firsthand experiences with UFO UAPs. Appearing before the House National Security Subcommittee were, Ryan Graves, founder and executive director of Americans for Safe Aerospace, the first military pilot-led non-profit dedicated to UFO UAPs as a matter of national security, aerospace safety and science. Lieutenant Graves is a former Navy F-18 instructor pilot, and Navy Lieutenant Graves reported multiple encounters with mysterious aerial objects during training exercises off the East Coast of the United States. Lieutenant Graves also serves as the first chair of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Unidentified Aerospace Phenomena, Integration and Outreach Committee. It's also known by the acronym UAPIOC. Sorry, it's smoke here today. It represents more than 30,000 members of the aerospace industry. David Grusch was a former National Reconnaissance Officer representative for the Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force of the Department of Defense. Mr. Grusch came forward publicly in June on News Nation to say that the US government has, quote, retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin, close quote. David Fravor, retired US Navy pilot and former commanding officer of the Navy's Black ACES Squadron, encountered the now famous all-white UFO-UAP craft 200 miles southwest of San Diego over ocean waters on November 14th, 2004. He compared the object to an all-white Tic-Tac candy, and the name Tic-Tac stuck to the UFO-UAP first reported by the New York Times on its front page December 16th, 2017. Finally, some congressional representatives are taking UFO-UAP seriously. There is a growing demand to open up publicly what the Pentagon has been hiding for 80 years since World War II. In addition to today's hearing organized by Tennessee Representative Tim Burchett, US. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York introduced on July 13th, 2023, an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that is modeled after the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act. He calls it the quote, unidentified anomalous phenomena disclosure act of 2023, close quote. Senator Schumer's proposed amendment contains specific language to require the release of US government UFO UAP records about crashed UFO vehicles, debris, reverse engineered technologies of unknown origin, and biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence currently that are in the possession of the US government. Senator Schumer recently introduced his Senate Bill 2226 entitled, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023.

Speaker 3:
[05:46] So my amendment will require the National Archive and Records Administration to create a collection of records from across government agencies that can be declassified for the public's use, similar to the approach used in 1992 with the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act. These records will carry a presumption of immediate disclosure, which means they can only remain classified with good reason.

Speaker 2:
[06:13] Here are a couple of important paragraphs in Senator Schumer's new bill. Quote, all federal government records concerning unidentified anomalous phenomena should carry a presumption of immediate disclosure, and all records should be eventually disclosed to enable the public to become fully informed about the history of the federal government's knowledge and involvement surrounding unidentified anomalous phenomena. Legislation is necessary because credible evidence and testimony indicates that federal government unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification review as set forth in Executive Order 13526, Relating to Classified National Security Information, due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as well as broad interpretation of trans classified foreign nuclear information, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification, thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law. Senator Schumer concluded, The American public has a right to learn about technologies of unknown origins, non-human intelligence, and unexplainable phenomena. But a problem is that the Pentagon and JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command, do not want to open all of their 80 years of secret files about UFOs and non-human intelligences to the public. Whoever prevails in this battle will signal whether power brokers only have the power to do so. And or 340 million American citizens will drive this country's uncertain future. And now, let's hear some excerpts from the historic two-hour House hearing this morning about, quote, unidentified anomalous phenomena, implications on national security, public safety, and government transparency, close quote.

Speaker 4:
[08:52] Again, thank you all for your service and for testifying today. I want to just talk about UAPs as it relates to what we're seeing in the pilots' interaction with UAPs. Particularly, Mr. Graves, one of the concerns from members of this committee is this idea that pilots, there's no system that actually report UAPs and the stigma around pilots. Can you briefly mention that you're working with 30 pilots right now that have had encounters with UAPs, but you've also, I believe, discussed and know of many more pilots. This is just those that you're currently working with. Is that correct? Can you expand on that?

Speaker 5:
[09:24] Certainly. I'll break that down in two ways. First, when we were first experiencing these objects off the Eastern Seaboard in the 2014 to 2015 time period, anyone that had upgraded their radar systems were seeing these objects. So there was a large number of my colleagues that were detecting these objects off the Eastern Seaboard. They were further correlating that information with the other on-board sensors. And many of them also had their own eye sightings as well of these objects. Now, that was our personal first-hand experience at the time. Since then, as I've engaged this topic, others have reached out to me to share their experiences, both on the military side as well as the commercial aviation side. On the military aviation side, veterans that have recently got out have shared their stories and have expressed how the objects we were seeing in 2014, 2015 continued all the way to 2019, 2020 and beyond. And so it became a generational issue for naval aviators on the Eastern Seaboard. This was something we were briefing to new students. This is something that was included in the Notice to Airmen to ensure that there was no accidents. And now with commercial aviators, they are reaching out because they're having somewhat similar experiences as our military brothers and sisters, but they do not have any reporting system that they can send this to.

Speaker 4:
[10:38] And let me just add both to Mr. Fravor as well as Mr. Graves. Not having this system for reporting, would you both agree that it's harmful to not just our national security interests, but to understand this phenomenon of what's happening with UAPs?

Speaker 6:
[10:54] I think it's actually a travesty that we don't have a system to correlate this and actually investigate. You know, so if you took the East Coast, you know, there's coastal radars out there that monitor our air defense identification zone, so out to 200 miles, they contract these, you know, so when you see them, they could actually go and pull that data and get maneuvering. And instead of just having the airplanes, there's other data sources out there. And I've talked to other government officials on this. So you need a centrally located repository that these reports go to. So if you just stuck it in DOD, you wouldn't get anything out of the intelligence committee because they have a tendency to not to talk. But if you had a central location these reports would come in not just military but also commercial aviation because there's a lot of that going on especially if you talk to anyone that flies from here to Hawaii over the Pacific they see odd lights. So I think you need to develop something that allows you a central point to collect the data in order to investigate.

Speaker 4:
[11:48] Mr. Graves.

Speaker 5:
[11:50] I will compare with everything Mr. Fravor said. I'll continue to say that the commercial pilots that have reached out to me through Americans for Safe Aerospace are doing so because they don't feel there's another way for them to report this safety issue.

Speaker 4:
[12:00] And I think one of the clear outcomes of this hearing already is that there has to be a safe and transparent reporting process for pilots both on the commercial side and the military side to be able to report UAPs in a way that's also transparent but also understands the scope of our national security interests and what may be classified or not. But I think there has to be some sort of system. And so that's something that I hope can be an outcome that this committee can work on. Is there anything else for just for the two of you briefly beyond the reporting system you think that we can do with the government to encourage to facilitate more civilian reporting?

Speaker 5:
[12:35] I think we're doing it right now.

Speaker 4:
[12:36] Okay, great.

Speaker 5:
[12:36] I think this hearing is going to show the American people that their government takes this topic seriously.

Speaker 4:
[12:42] And how about civilians that may not be pilots? What kind of process could be in place for civilians who are not pilots, who may have UAP encounters? Do either of you have any suggestions that could facilitate that?

Speaker 5:
[12:52] My recommendations would be to make that a sensor centric operation in order to make it as objective as possible. Okay.

Speaker 4:
[13:00] Sir, Mr. Fravor?

Speaker 6:
[13:01] I agree with Mr. Graves on that.

Speaker 4:
[13:03] Okay. Just briefly, I also just want to note, particularly for the two pilots, I have a question for Mr. Grusch. One of the things that I found fascinating in our discussion, Mr. Graves, last night as well is that you both described UAPs and formations and the way they are observed in space or in our air. And the way that they move is essentially ways in which current technology and the aircraft that we know of are unable to actually function or move. And so will you just for the public record again, once again, just briefly either describe or note that aircraft that we witnessed, particularly by the 30 folks that you're working with, are essentially outside the scope of anything that we know of today and the technology we have today. Mr. Graves, Mr. Fravor?

Speaker 5:
[13:49] Yes, the objects that are being seen by commercial pilots are performing maneuvers that are unexplainable due to our current understanding of our technology and our capabilities as a country, and that applies for the military as well.

Speaker 4:
[14:01] Mr. Fravor?

Speaker 6:
[14:03] Yeah, I concur with that. We have nothing that can stop in mid-air and go the other direction, nor do we have anything that can, like in our situation, come down from space, hang out for three hours and go back up.

Speaker 4:
[14:12] Thank you. My last question, and sometimes, I know you have also said some of these answers in the past, we're trying to get them on the public record as well, which is really important. Mr. Graves, finally, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?

Speaker 7:
[14:24] Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.

Speaker 4:
[14:29] And where?

Speaker 7:
[14:30] I know the exact locations, and those locations were provided to the Inspector General and some of which to the Intelligence Committees. I actually had the people with the firsthand knowledge provide a protected disclosure to the Inspector General.

Speaker 4:
[14:43] Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would just say that I think that these questions are important questions, and I look forward to being involved in the process to get those answered. I know there'll be a lot of questions from other committee members, but I will yield back.

Speaker 8:
[14:53] Mr. Graves, again, I'd like to know, how do you know that these were not our aircraft?

Speaker 5:
[15:01] Some of the behaviors that we saw in a working area, we would see these objects being at 0.0 Mach, that's zero airspeed, over certain pieces of the ground. So what that means, just like a river, if you throw a bobber in, it's going to float downstream. These objects were staying completely stationary in category four hurricane winds. These same objects would then accelerate to supersonic speeds 1.1, 1.2 Mach. They would do so in very erratic and quick behaviors that we don't, I don't have an explanation for.

Speaker 8:
[15:30] Okay. Have you spoken to commercial and military pilots that have seen these off of our East Coast?

Speaker 5:
[15:37] I have.

Speaker 8:
[15:38] Okay. Mr. Fravor, what astonished you the most about the flight capabilities of these TIC-TAC very briefly?

Speaker 6:
[15:49] The performance. Absolute performance. It was...

Speaker 8:
[15:52] And you're not aware of any other objects that anybody in the world has in this world that has those capabilities?

Speaker 6:
[15:59] No, I think it's far beyond actually our material science that we currently possess.

Speaker 8:
[16:05] Are you aware of any other reconnaissance platforms that track the record of the TIC-TAC's maneuvers, maybe the NORAD system or any of the others?

Speaker 6:
[16:12] I am not. Okay.

Speaker 8:
[16:13] Mr. Grusch, thank you for being here, brother. Thank you all very much. Have you faced any retaliation or reprisals for any of your testimony or anything on these lines?

Speaker 7:
[16:26] Yeah, I have to be careful what I say in detail because there is an open whistleblower reprisal investigation on my behalf, and I don't want to compromise that investigation by providing anything that may help provide somebody information. But it was very brutal and very unfortunate, some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally, to be quite frank.

Speaker 8:
[16:51] Yeah. It's very unfortunate, as they say, when you're open to the target, that's when they do the most firing at you. Do you have any personal knowledge of people who have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology?

Speaker 7:
[17:04] Yes, personally.

Speaker 8:
[17:08] Have you heard, have anyone been murdered that you would think, that you know of or have heard of, I guess?

Speaker 7:
[17:14] I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.

Speaker 8:
[17:19] Maybe in the, if we could get in a confidential area of SCIF, we could talk about that. But unfortunately, we were denied access to the SCIF, and that's very unfortunate in this scenario. Mr. Fravor, do you believe that you witnessed an additional object under the water in relation to your encounter?

Speaker 6:
[17:46] I will say we did not see an object. There was something there to cause the whitewater, and when we turned around, it was gone. So there was something there that obviously moved.

Speaker 8:
[17:54] Okay, it was not the same object, though, that you were looking at, correct?

Speaker 6:
[17:58] No, we actually joked that the Tic Tac was communicating with something when we came back, and because the whitewater disappeared.

Speaker 8:
[18:05] We were, in another instance, were told about the capabilities of a jamming during viewing of some, when there were some people chasing some of these objects. Did you experience any of that jamming or interrupting your radar or weapon system?

Speaker 6:
[18:20] My crew that launched after we landed experienced significant jamming to the APG-73 radar, which was what we had on board, which is a mechanically scanned, very high-end system prior to the APG-79. And yes, it did pretty much everything you could do, range, velocity, aspect, and then it just hit the lock, and the targeting pod is passive. That's what we were able to get the video on.

Speaker 8:
[18:40] I'm about to run out of time, but are you aware of any of our enemies that have that capability?

Speaker 6:
[18:46] No.

Speaker 4:
[18:47] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Graves, you reported UAP encounters during training flights, I think, and have since come forward to warn the Pentagon that these encounters may be putting pilots at risk. My first question is, you've identified these as taking place on the East Coast. Is it just on the East Coast where these encounters have been reported?

Speaker 5:
[19:18] No. Since the events initially occurred, I've learned that the objects have been detected essentially where all operations, Navy operations are being conducted across the world. That's from the Ultimate Anomaly Resolutions Office reporting.

Speaker 4:
[19:33] Can you describe your experience after you decided to come forward and go public with your experience?

Speaker 5:
[19:41] Certainly. Like many others in 2017, I saw the New York Times article come out as well. For me, it was special because I recognized the voices on the video. I recognized the video itself. I had seen it when it was taken. I seen it when it was debriefed. That was shook me because I realized that this problem was still ongoing. I reached out to colleagues back on the East Coast and realized that this was still a safety risk that they were dealing with, that they had essentially hit a wall with how they could move forward on this conversation. It was at that point when I decided to try to move the conversation forward myself.

Speaker 4:
[20:17] Are there common characteristics to the UAPs that have been cited by different pilots? And can you describe what the convergence of descriptions is?

Speaker 5:
[20:26] Certainly. We were primarily seeing dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere.

Speaker 4:
[20:31] I'm sorry, dark gray or black cubes?

Speaker 5:
[20:34] Yes, inside of a clear sphere where the apex or tips of the cube were touching the inside of that sphere, and that was primarily what was being reported when we were able to gain a visual tally of these objects. That occurred over almost eight years, and as far as I know, it still occurred.

Speaker 4:
[20:51] So I take it that you're arguing what we need is real transparency in a reporting system so we can get some clarity on what's going on out there because there are many pilots in your situation, but we should have a way of developing a systematic inventory of all of such encounters, is that right?

Speaker 5:
[21:11] Yes, and I think we need both transparency and the reporting. We have the reporting, but we need to make sure that information can be promulgated to commercial aviation as well as the rest of the populace.

Speaker 4:
[21:21] Mr. Grusch, what about you? What was your experience after you came forward?

Speaker 7:
[21:26] Well, it's only been about two months or so, so I guess my experience has been overwhelming support from former colleagues of mine that have privately messaged me and I do appreciate that. But I do have knowledge of active planned reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues, and it's very upsetting to me.

Speaker 4:
[21:47] Coming from where?

Speaker 7:
[21:50] Certain senior leadership at previous agencies I was associated with. That's all I'll say publicly, but I can provide more details in a closed environment.

Speaker 4:
[21:59] Well, I hope you understand that there would be bipartisan rejection of any attempt to vilify, demonize or engage in other reprisals against our witnesses and people who are telling the truth from their perspective.

Speaker 7:
[22:15] Yeah, there were certain colleagues of mine that were brutally administratively attacked, and it actually makes me very upset as a leader to see that happen to other coworkers and actually superiors of mine over the last three years.

Speaker 4:
[22:27] How do you account for that response? That seems like a bizarre response.

Speaker 7:
[22:31] I call it administrative terrorism. That's their quiver, their tool in the toolbox to silence people. Especially the career government service cares about their career, cares about their clearance, their reputation to climb the ladder. And when you threaten that flow career path, a lot of people back off. But I'm here to represent those people, so.

Speaker 4:
[22:55] Mr. Fravor, what is your general interpretation of these phenomena? What is your current thinking of trying to make sense of them?

Speaker 6:
[23:07] I will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a five-minute period, still, there's nothing, we have nothing close to it. It was amazing to see. I told my buddy I wanted to fly it, but it's just an incredible technology.

Speaker 9:
[23:23] Mr. Moskowitz.

Speaker 10:
[23:25] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What about G-forces? Let's talk about G-forces of those vehicles. Could a human survive those G-forces with known technology today?

Speaker 5:
[23:34] No.

Speaker 6:
[23:34] No, not for the acceleration rates that we observed.

Speaker 10:
[23:37] Okay. What about what they look like? How close did you get? Did you see a seam or a rivet or a section? What I mean is obviously the jets you're flying have all those things. Did these objects have those?

Speaker 6:
[23:50] Do you want to go, Ryan?

Speaker 5:
[23:52] I didn't have the detail to be able to tell that.

Speaker 6:
[23:54] So we got within a half mile at Tic Tac, which people say that's pretty far, but in airplanes, that's actually relatively close. Now it was perfectly white, smooth, no windows. Although when we did take the original FLIR video that is out there, when you put it on a big screen, it actually had two little objects that came out of the bottom of it. But other than that, no windows, no seams, no nothing.

Speaker 10:
[24:15] Mr. Grusch, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself of non-human origin craft?

Speaker 7:
[24:24] Yes, I personally interviewed those individuals.

Speaker 10:
[24:26] Mr. Grusch, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself about ATs, advanced technologies that the US government has?

Speaker 7:
[24:37] Based on conventional advanced tech, I was briefed to the preponderance of the defense departments, both space and aerospace department of programs.

Speaker 10:
[24:49] Do you have knowledge or do you have reason to believe that there are programs in the advanced tech space that are unsanctioned?

Speaker 7:
[24:56] Yes, I do.

Speaker 10:
[24:57] Okay. And when you say that they're above congressional oversight, what do you mean?

Speaker 7:
[25:03] Complicated question. So there's some, I would call it abuse here. So congressional oversight of conventional special access programs, so I'll use Title 10, so DOD is an example, right? So 10 US. Code Section 119 discusses congressional oversight of SAPs, discusses the DEPSEC DEF's ability to waive congressional reporting. However, the Gang of Eight is at least supposed to be notified if a waived or waived, bigoted, unacknowledged SAP is created and that's public law.

Speaker 10:
[25:34] Well, so that how does, I mean, I don't want to cut you off, but how does a program like that get funded?

Speaker 7:
[25:39] I will give you generalities. I can get very specific in a closed session, but misappropriation of funds and self-fund.

Speaker 10:
[25:47] Does that mean that there is money in the budget that is said to go to a program, but it doesn't and it goes to something else?

Speaker 7:
[25:53] Yes, I have specific knowledge of that, yep.

Speaker 10:
[25:54] Do you think US corporations are overcharging for certain tech they're selling to the US government and that additional money is going to programs?

Speaker 7:
[26:03] Correct, through something called IRAD.

Speaker 10:
[26:05] Satellite imagery, let's talk about satellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place, some that we're aware of and many that we're not aware of, right? We're taking pictures of everything at every point and second. Mr. Grusch, are you aware, do you have direct knowledge, or have you talked to people with direct knowledge, that there are satellite imagery of these events?

Speaker 7:
[26:26] That was one of my primary tasks at NGA, since we process, exploit and disseminate that kind of information. I've seen multiple cases, some of which, to my understanding, and of course, I left NGA in April, so that's my information cutoff date. But I personally reviewed both what we call overhead collection and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were, I could not even explain prosaically. And I have a degree in physics, by the way, as well. And I am aware that you guys have not seen these reports, unfortunately. And I don't know why.

Speaker 10:
[27:01] Do you have direct knowledge, or have you spoken to people with direct knowledge that this imagery applies to crash sites, crash imagery?

Speaker 7:
[27:11] I can't discuss that in an open session.

Speaker 10:
[27:13] Okay. Do you have any information that the US government is involved in a disinformation campaign to deny the existence of certain UAPs?

Speaker 7:
[27:26] I can't go beyond what I've already stated publicly in my NewsNation interview because it touches other sensitivities.

Speaker 10:
[27:32] Okay.

Speaker 9:
[27:32] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate you guys coming out today testifying. Look, I've been here for six months and I'm pretty skeptical. I don't trust anything in this town. I think that's because I'm from Missouri, you've got to show me. With that being said, there's been a lot of things that have been said in the public, Mr. Grusch. And so I want to get down to, if we can, some specifics, right? So at one point you had said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile in your reports?

Speaker 7:
[28:18] I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured.

Speaker 9:
[28:22] And the activity by UAPs or by people within the federal government?

Speaker 7:
[28:31] Both.

Speaker 9:
[28:33] Okay. So there has been activity by alien or non-human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans?

Speaker 7:
[28:46] I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and I have to be very careful here, because you don't, you know, I tell you never to acknowledge tradecraft, right? So what I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing.

Speaker 9:
[29:04] Okay. One of my constituents actually sent this next question, and I figured I'd ask it since I had the same thought. You've said that US has intact spacecraft. You said that the government has alien bodies or alien species. Have you seen the spacecraft?

Speaker 7:
[29:27] I have to be careful to describe what I've seen firsthand and not in this environment, but I could answer that question behind closed doors.

Speaker 9:
[29:35] Have you seen any of the bodies?

Speaker 7:
[29:38] That's something I've not witnessed myself.

Speaker 9:
[29:42] Okay, and so with that being said, the other statement that has been made that was intriguing to me because, and it's intriguing because my view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other system. And the concept that an alien species that's technologically advanced enough to travel billions of light years gets here and somehow is competent enough to not survive Earth or crashes is something that I find a little bit far-fetched. And with that being said, you have mentioned that there's interdimensional potential. Could you expound on that?

Speaker 7:
[30:23] I'll get to answer your first question and I'm here as a fact witness and expert, but I will give you a theoretical framework, at least to work off, to kind of expel crashes, regardless of your level of sentience, right? You know, planes crash, cars crash, and number of sorties, however high, a small percentage are going to end in mission failure, as we say, in the Air Force. And then in terms of multidimensionality, that kind of thing, the framework that I'm familiar with, for an example, is something called the holographic principle, both, it derives itself from general relativity and quantum mechanics, and that is, if you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself, casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. So you can be projected, quasi-projected, from higher dimensional space to lower dimensional. It's a scientific trope that you can actually cross, literally, as far as I understand, but there's probably guys at PhDs and we could probably argue about that.

Speaker 9:
[31:23] But you have not seen any documentation that that's what's occurring.

Speaker 7:
[31:27] Only a theoretical framework discussion.

Speaker 11:
[31:31] Several months ago, my office received a protected disclosure from Eglin Air Force Base indicating that there was a UAP incident that required my attention. I sought a briefing regarding that episode and brought with me Congressman Burchett and Congresswoman Luna. We asked to see any of the evidence that had been taken by a flight crew in this endeavor and to observe any radar signature as long as well as to meet with the flight crew. We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew. Initially, we were not afforded access to images and to radar. Thereafter, we had a bit of a discussion about how authorities flow in the United States of America, and we did see the image. And we did meet with one member of the flight crew who took the image. The image was of something that I am not able to attach to any human capability, either from the United States or from any of our adversaries. And I'm somewhat informed on the matter, having served on the Armed Services Committee for seven years, having served on the committee that oversees DARPA and Advanced Technologies for several years. When we spoke with the flight crew, and when he showed us the photo that he had taken, I asked why the video wasn't engaged, why we didn't have a FLIR system that worked. Here's what he said. They were out on a test mission that day over the Gulf of Mexico. And when you're on a test mission, you're supposed to have clear airspace, not supposed to be anything that shows up. And they saw a sequence of four craft in a clear diamond formation, for which there is a radar sequence that I and I alone have observed in the United States Congress. One of the pilots goes to check out that diamond formation and sees a large floating, what I can only describe as an orb, again, like I said, not of any human capability that I'm aware of. And when he approached, he said that his radar went down, he said that his FLIR system malfunctioned, and that he had to manually take this image from one of the lenses, and it was not automated in collection, as you would typically see in a test mission. So I guess I'll start with Commander Fravor. How should we think about the fact that this craft that was approached by our pilot had the capability of disarming a number of the sensor and collection systems on that craft?

Speaker 6:
[34:09] Well, I think this goes to that national security side, and you can go back through history of things showing up at certain areas and disabling our capabilities, which is disheartening. And for us, I mean, like I said, it completely disabled the radar on the aircraft when it tried to do it, and the only way we could see it is passively, which is how he got that image. So I think that's a concern on what are these doing, not only how do they operate, but their capabilities inside to do things like this.

Speaker 5:
[34:33] I would like to add, however, Congressman, there's a small bit of anger, I would say. I would feel that those pilots are still facing that difficulty in reporting this topic, and they don't have the tools to be able to mitigate this issue. It just goes to show how serious this is and why this is such an important issue for our pilots and for our nation.

Speaker 11:
[34:52] It was stated explicitly to me by these test pilots that if you have a U of AP experience, the best thing you can do for your career is forget it and not tell anyone, because any type of reporting either above the surface or below the surface does have a perceived consequence to these people, and that is a culture we must change if we want to get to the truth. Mr. Chairman, I would observe that perhaps as we move forward from this hearing, there are some obvious next steps. Every person watching this knows that we need to meet with Mr. Grusch in a secure compartmentalized facility so that we can get fulsome answers that do not put him in jeopardy and that give us the information we need. Second, I would suggest that the radar images that were collected of this formation of craft out of Eglin Air Force Base and specifically the actual image taken by the actual flight crew that we can actually validate be provided to the committee, subpoenaed if necessary, so that we're able to track how to get this type of reporting and analysis done in a more fulsome way. That would be my recommendation. Humbly as a guest here of the Fine Oversight Committee. I yield back.

Speaker 4:
[36:07] Transparency is a cornerstone of government. We live in a vast galaxy. A lot of unanswered questions. And thank you all for being here today.

Speaker 2:
[36:19] While we are waiting for official truth and we're not alone in this universe. I finally have been getting some very, very interesting information from people in a variety of directions. And I have finally been told officially that the UFO, UAPs will be eventually laid out to us as life forms. Extraterrestrial from a number of different solar systems. And the Pentagon knows that and has for a long time. And I have received an email recently concerning that Reddit leak about exo-biospheric organisms or EBOs that I reported about on my July 5th Earthfiles. Well, this new communication from a military aerospace science background person says, I managed to get a copy of the EBO post on Reddit that got taken down. Everything in that July 5th article is factual. To explain this a little better, what he is talking about are programmed biological life forms or PLFs, as they are referred to. He is correct in pointing out, they are a blend of much of the biological material sourced here, meaning on Earth, and mixed with some from out there, not of Earth origin, or organic material from Earth. What he did not mention is that the Shimmera mix that he referenced, always has Earth human DNA mixed in with other Earth organisms. This is what makes it extremely difficult in explaining the where do they come from questions. These are what most people in these classified programs call mission grays or autonomous PLFs. These are the ones built for space travel, and interact in the abduction exercise and show absolutely no emotion or empathy toward anyone having the abduction experience. They are simply carrying out what they are programmed to do. These PLFs have a four lobe brain with a center lobe that is connected to all four lobes. This is the reason for the large cranium. The black eyes are not black. That is a tissue engineered device about 16 layers thick to cover the whole eye and provide significant contrast in different spectra of light. I greatly appreciate hearing from those of you working in government aerospace science or medical programs who study and or even interact with non-human intelligences and know how huge the disconnect is between what humans know about other life in this universe versus the truth that it is throughout the universe. Please keep reaching out to me. I am working on several investigations right now, and I want you to know that I'm going to take the month of August off like I did last year and that we will still have our Wednesday get-togethers through broadcasts, rebroadcasts of other special programs that I have done in the past, and that I'm planning on returning September 6th with a fascinating, eerie Earth mystery. I'm not going to tell you anything about it now, but I'm working on it, and it will be fascinating on September 6th. And now dear Ian in England, back to you for comments and questions on this. To me, it is a historic day because this is the first time that I ever felt like the United States population heard and educated and trying to be honest discussion about the fact that UFOs and UAPs are related to other intelligences that are not human.

Speaker 12:
[41:02] Yes, Linda. What a historic day. It's a day that we're all going to remember. I joined Alan Steinfeldt's New Reality YouTube channel with his watch party, and it was so good to be there as part of the community, and also to share it with actual experiencers such as JK Ultra and Alan himself, who's an experiencer, as things unfolded. And we took away things from it such as the headlines that are now making the news, such as non-human biologics found at UFO crash sites. And this technology we faced was fast and superior to what we have. So, yeah, excellent. I've got a whole lot of comments from the chat. The chat's really engaged tonight, so I'm just going to go through some comments, and then we've got plenty of questions as well lined up for you, Linda.

Speaker 2:
[41:47] All right.

Speaker 12:
[41:48] So here we go from the comments. Marty McFly says, this is not about craft, it's about building a case on why they went on hold. Obviously talked about the establishment and the cover-up. That was another quote that we had today. It was, uncover the cover-up, a great quote to take away. Today was meant to get information into public record so that recalls can be sought. Joanne Cook says, this is the most disclosure we've had to date on public record, more, more, more. Yeah. Ali, hello, Ali says, I want to be a fly on the skiff wall. Ashley says, Ashley Starr says, they're swearing under oath, they're sworn statements plus they're radar imaging. This is their truth. We again referencing the abductees holding all the evidence as Pamela Jee, and Lisa Savoy is also an experiencer. She's in the chat tonight. I'm interested to know what their perspective is as we go forward, because a lot of people do know the truth, but this is just the beginning of their vindication and their revelation into hopefully an accepting Congress. Linda, we've got plenty of questions. Yes. Should I start with some questions?

Speaker 2:
[43:05] Yes.

Speaker 12:
[43:07] Here we go. Hello, Ali says, Question, does Linda think that the questions tabled today for the SCIF will be game changers?

Speaker 2:
[43:17] Well, it depends on what they let out of the SCIF. That's what the SCIFs were built for, that people would have to sign non-disclosure agreements for any level of work or knowledge. And then after that meetings would have to be held in these special rooms that are made so that there can be no electromagnetic exchange coming in and out. And so the SCIF allows secret discussions. But what we all need is we need the content that's in all of the SCIF discussions that cannot be made public. And that's the conundrum. How do we get past all of the 80 years of building in, keeping everything associated with extraterrestrial biological entities, other dimensions, all of it? How do we keep what's happened to keep it? When I thought that was such a very interesting question that was asked from one of the representatives, have there been murders? And I think that people who have investigated for a long time are pretty convinced that there have been murders and that the JFK assassination was linked to what was going on in internecine warfare with MJ-12 and others. And my dear friend, Jim Mars, wrote a book about the assassination in that context, how to do with UFOs and ETs. And the government probably feels uncomfortable about it, but maybe there is some way to get out the true history. And so that's why it's like Swiss cheese. Skiffs allow a tiny bit of people to know something inside of work that they're doing. But the public, the huge public is and has been for the last 80 years, excluded from the evolution. Think of how many departments, think of how many underground facilities have been built and voted to keeping crashed UFO, whether it's a craft, a technology, bodies, all of it. As I understand it, there really is a lot that is underground, and that would be removing from the surface like a skiff removes people into a built room so that there won't be leaks. So we're at this kind of razor's edge. This today was what I have been hoping that we would start having discussions in all forums and televisions long before now, and yet people are still extremely awkward and about it, and Mr. Grusch says about most of the questions ask him, that he could only discuss it in a skiff. So if there is legislation like Senator Schumer's, that would start changing somehow the landscape of research, photographs, videos of extraterrestrials of all kinds, craft of all kinds, technologies of all kinds, that there will be a transition from no one is ever to know in the human family on Earth to, okay, we now have to start finding ways to share all this information to the Earth. And that's what the power brokers do not want to do. And so to me, the rubber is hitting the road this day. You can see how much we were exposed to, and that's just a tiny, tiny bit. There's tons and tons and tons more. How do we go from the baby steps today to full Earth planetary knowledge about civilizations that are with a hundred light years of Earth? The congressman misspoke, we don't have to go billions of light years to get to other solar systems. There's ones for four light years, five light years, seven light years, 10 light years, 20 light years, 40 light years, goes on and on and on. How do we get to truth on Earth? That's what this all boils down to me. Go ahead Ian.

Speaker 12:
[48:40] Alan Steinfeldt is in the chat this evening and he says, if we could find out who is threatening the people coming forward, we could get to the bottom of the secret holders. Linda, who do you think the higher-ups are?

Speaker 2:
[48:55] Well, I guess I know for a fact that we have got 17 intel agencies, and the first one was the Central Intelligence Agency brought into existence in September, I think it was September 18th, 1947 by Harry S. Truman. September 18th, 1947 was only about five or six weeks after the Roswell crash that made the front page of the Roswell Daily Record. There were other crashes, but that one, it got put into history because that newspaper was able to get that photograph and put it on the front page. We're not intimidated and that was that one piece of history that we had. The agencies that then evolved, the Central Intelligence Agency came first. I think the next one was the National Security Agency. Then going on, we now have, I think it's 17, the Defense Intelligence Agency I know, came I believe after NSA and it had a tremendous amount of responsibility having to go out into the world, didn't matter where, what territory, what nation. Their job was to try to get technologies, craft, bodies and bring them back to something that I believe most, I think most of the bodies, technologies and everything associated with extraterrestrial, we'll call it evolution from World War II to today, are in huge underground facilities. So it's like we're a surface life and then there is the secret life. Then when you go down really deep, you start getting into what things I've been told, the tall whites and the Nordics and the reptilians and the greys. They occupy, they literally occupy deep parts of our planet or inside of mountains and below the basins of the seas of the oceans. Well, our government has caught on to that a long time ago as well. So we're in a strange evolutionary slash revolutionary period. There seems to me there's a push to get us finally more in to sink with the facts about this universe, that it really is a conscious universe, that we may be a third dimensional existence of which there are other dimensions that relate to us exactly as Mr. Grusch described when you're a third dimensional being and you're standing, and I'm casting a shadow on my table from the light. You can't see it, but this is third dimension, and the third dimension is projecting the shadow. Well, if you start applying that in your mind, and this has come to people in the Abduction Syndrome that have been told very similar things, then the third dimension can be the projection of another higher dimension, and on it goes. And that when Michael Talbot wrote that very important book, Everybody Should Read, The Holographic Universe, and Bud Hopkins tells me that secretly, Michael Talbot is one of his abductees that Bud had been working with. And he only learned from Michael Talbot after the book was out and was beginning to take off as an important book to read, is when Michael Talbot finally told Bud, who then told me at a conference, this is Michael Talbot, the author, told me that the book is downloaded from the extraterrestrials that he relates to and that they have abducted him. It's like we're entering into multiple facets, complexities. I've talked with people in government and science who do not think that humans are ready to take all of this. Yet look at what happened just from the mid-90s, when we didn't have any cell phones, we didn't have TikTok, we didn't have a worldwide 24-7 news that you could pick up in a cell phone. You had none of that. Look at how fast humans adapted. We're now being conditioned by Elon Musk and others that our destiny is to get humans on Mars. There may be a strategic military reason for doing that, but that we will start spreading. As we start spreading out into space, we will be going in the technologies that they have denied, but that's what they're using in the big craft, such as the Curtis LeMay, where they can go light years, much faster than we would have thought, but that they have been doing all kinds of investigative research within 50 or 100 years of where we are. Well, gosh, the Milky Way galaxy is much bigger, and then there are three trillion more galaxies. So I find it exciting to start even hearing some honest Q&A between congressional representatives of what is supposed to be a government of, by, and for the people, that we are for the very first time in all of this, in 80 years since World War II, we're actually beginning to hear intelligent Q&A with content in some of the answers. Wow, let's keep going. For those of you who might be in science, medicine, aerospace, military, who are listening and watching, if you have fundamental insight, real knowledge about why you think that the population of Earth right now in 2023 going to 24 and the end of this decade, is there really any true reason about why we shouldn't open all of this up and start educating everybody right now with the idea that this kind of evolution revolution could perhaps end a human atrocity like the war in Ukraine just by sheer revelation shock. I would love to have feedback from any of you who are in what I call the Hall of Mirrors with a quick sand floor. What is your true perspective now? Okay, Ian.

Speaker 12:
[56:48] Okay, Linda, let's pause for a moment and do the super chats acknowledge everyone's generosity today. First up, we've got Cindy Ball from Colorado, who's knocked Moonbird off the top slot.

Speaker 2:
[56:59] Hi Cindy. Hi Moonbird.

Speaker 12:
[57:02] You have to have one day. Hi Moonbird. Moonbird also says, this is a day generations have waited for, which I think is a great quote. So thank you, Moonbird. Terry D, Jason O'Donnell, Liam Marshall, Digital Gypsy, Yin-Yang Glow, She-Hawk. Also says we're on baby steps, Release the Truth, Earth Angel, Northern Lights, Chris Brengler, Blue Racer, Juan Arlini, Jeff Francis. Thank you very much everybody.

Speaker 2:
[57:34] Yes. Adap a hug to all of you, wherever you are, and to all of our friends who tune in from so many different countries now around the world. I would like us to be happy and glorious about the fact that we may be actually shifting. And I know that there are so many problems ranging global climate and temperature, and that in a strange way, it almost feels guilty to start talking about something that seems like it could be exciting when there are so many problems. But on the other side of these problems, if we were honest and true, and we could introduce, meaning the governments would finally introduce, the reality of some kind of relationship with beings such as the tall whites and the Nordics, and that they truly have interest in helping us. I know that the personalities and the agendas may be more complicated, but let's assume that there is some goal to have humans evolve. It could be such an exciting time because when we are in what's going to be an increasing crisis, I think this is just for openers what's happening, that there's going to be more and more and more horrible environmental world crises. And maybe the geniuses on the ET side and the humans who are responsible for keeping the secret maybe finally see that there could be a tremendous advantage of opening it up, and that we could be introduced on the planet in a positive way, at least to some who seem to have a vested interest. And again, I throw it out to those of you who are working in the difficult landscape to let me know if there would be a problem in this thinking. But it seems like if homo sapien, could meet an extra terrestrial DNA manipulator of the last many millions of years working on this planet, and meet them in the context of we humans need help. We need help to survive on a planet that is going through revolutionary climate and other changes. Maybe the solar system will end up also going through some revolution evolution. But if we then met with non-human intelligences, who meant us no harm, that they want to continue to be able to work with us, and with Earth, and this solar system, it might be the way that we could shake hands metaphorically. Not in fear, not in intimidation, not in government cover-up, but that we're told over and over again that this universe, the whole universe is conscious, and whatever set it in motion, I think of as the thought that dwells in the light. It's infinity of consciousness, and that it does not want death. It does not want hatred. So maybe there is, if we could go deeper with more knowledge, maybe there is a safe and peaceful way that we could be introduced finally to the truth and have beings that would be willing to shake hands metaphorically, and that it would be a whole new age, and that what humans would learn is, no, they are not here to do your life for you. But they are here because they have a vested interest in who you are, the strong souls of Homo sapiens sapien. And that if we knew the whole huge truth about why we are on this Earth, after millions of years of genetic manipulation, with other non-humans who can travel throughout the Milky Way galaxy and beyond, there's got to be something special about humanity. We take it for granted and we fight with each other. Maybe if we knew that we had extraordinary, extraordinary frequencies to add to this universe and beyond, we might begin to have completely different priorities. And those priorities might forever exclude war and hatred. And that would be sort of what the avatars of history. If you look at the avatars of history who have come, Krishna and Buddha and Christ and Mohammed and Joseph Smith, it seems to me in some ways that that is the bottom line. That when you're joined together and you know that your souls go through infinite cycles and that you are a consciousness that gathers knowledge, like the universe itself is gathering knowledge from everything in it, and that evolution has its own energy and its own destiny, if there is a push forward and positive, not self-destructive. That's the way I like to think about the moment where we are. Baby humans on Earth are now going to start becoming teenagers in this vast universe, I hope. And that there could be tremendous excitement that would take the horrible stress and pressure off of this planet that is hurting so badly in so many ways. And that's, I guess, sharing with you those words that is feeling like wanting to embrace fellow beings, and say, it could be that that's why we're here. But we have got to be better, and we have got to be more honest, and we've got to know the truth about what our relationship as a conscious being with a soul is to the universe that has consciousness, and thus to all beings on a bell-shaped curve, from possibly hostile to loving and everything in between, and that it not be frightening, that it be enervating to begin to learn a whole lot more about the universe we're in and the dimensions, and that when Mr. Grusch talked about that the third dimension could be a projection from other dimensions, like the shadow cast on the sidewalk, I think that that is getting close to another aspect of all of this, that we humans have not been taught. It could be that if we were educated and we began to think in those terms, it might begin to get us out of the state of what a lot of people feel is historic depression, at a time when so many forces have been pushing humans in many different ways. Now, maybe, if we can get to truth, it could possibly be the revolutionary ingredient we need to change death and destruction on Earth. Okay, Ian, I know I started a little bit late, but I think I'm at a point where I want to say to everybody, feel, please feel an agape hug from a fellow human being. For all of you who are wanting to know the truth as I do, and that we're going through this together, like I hope we can humans go through the universe, and that I'm going to be doing a lot of work in August like I did last year. But I've got something really special to come back with on September 6th. In the meantime, I would love to get your emails, your letters, any way you want to communicate, as things begin to percolate more and more and more. From this historic day, July 26th, 2023, when Americans actually got to hear some honest discussion between their representatives and three very knowledgeable military people who know we are not alone, who know the technology is not human, who know that we are on the verge of being finally introduced to extraterrestrial intelligences that cohabit this universe. I love you guys.

Speaker 1:
[68:09] Thanks for listening to this Earthfiles Podcast from the edges of science, environment and real X-Files. Go to www.earthfiles.com to see more than a thousand Earthfiles reports with photographs, drawings and documents. And visit Earthfiles every day, every week, for new reports and new podcasts. That's www.earthfiles.com.