transcript
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:33] Hello, and welcome in to the latest edition of the Espn Fc. Murray, Alejandro Moreno, and Shaka Hislop here in the studio. We've lots to talk about on today's show, but we will kick things off in Spain, where there's been bad news about Lamine Yamal. The alarm bell is ringing in Marca because what we do know is he's been ruled out for the rest of the season with Barcelona due to a torn hamstring. But the word is he should be okay for the World Cup according to his club. Spain kick off their campaign in 53 days on June 15th. And joining us now is our La Liga correspondent, Alex Kirkland. How bad is it, Alex?
Speaker 3:
[01:16] Yeah, it felt like the whole country kind of collectively got its breath when Lamine went down with his injury, Kay, because he's the guy. He's the main man. He's the player that everyone's putting their hopes on at the World Cup this summer. He's the player that takes Spain from being one of the contenders for the World Cup to being among the favorites to lift the trophy. That's how good he is. And it's far from ideal having him in this state of fitness. Because as you say, yes, it's a partial tear of the hamstring. We think he'll be out for four or five weeks, something like that. Of course, it's a month until the end of the season. So he should be fine for the World Cup. But it's not just about that, is it? How many times have we seen a star player racing against the clock to be fit for a major tournament, even when they come back? You're worried about them. What kind of state are they coming back in? Will they be at their best or anything close to it? It's far from ideal for Spain. And yeah, like I say, yes, Lamine should be with Spain at the tournament, should be involved when they kick off their World Cup campaign. But exactly where will he be in terms of his match fitness? Where will he be psychologically as well? Because this is the kind of thing that plays on your mind. There is the chance of a relapse with this kind of injury. Will it be holding him back, preventing him from being the kind of player that we know that he can be at the World Cup? There's so many questions right now, but yeah, we do know, like you say, for sure, is that his season with Barca is over. For them, it's not the end of the world because barring an incredible collapse, they're gonna win the league anyway.
Speaker 2:
[02:38] Yeah, the player is the biggest concern here and the priority of the player and his wellness and his fitness. And to Alex's point, you are looking then, is it rushing him back even to come into this? Are you gonna have to rest him through the group stages? How is his match fitness? The concerns have to be over the player's wellness.
Speaker 4:
[02:54] Well, the first concern is what is indeed the gravity of the injury? And the hamstring tears, there is a full spectrum of those. There are some that's just a couple of weeks, then there are some that it's about a month and then there are some that you're out for three, four months because of how bad it is. It seems to be that we're sort of in the middle ground there, which is about a month. And so it helps to be 18 years old. It helps to be a young player that, and I know Shaq and I cannot relate to this right now, and at this point of our lives.
Speaker 5:
[03:27] Haven't been for a while, but I got your point.
Speaker 2:
[03:29] Yes, one time, a long time ago.
Speaker 4:
[03:32] Let me just say, had it been one of us that tore our hamstrings while we're taking a penalty, we'd be out commission for the next six months or so. But as for Lamine Yamal, you're thinking a month, 18 years old, I would look at it actually from the perspective, glass half full. You know that I'm a beacon of positivity.
Speaker 5:
[03:54] I've realized that as of late, Ali.
Speaker 4:
[03:56] Yes, as of late. Glass half full, I would say he'll be rested, which he hasn't gotten this season. Part of the reason as to why he's doing his hamstrings, is because Rafinha has been injured. That guy has been injured. The other guy has been injured, and he's the one that has been carrying this team offensively. And so he hasn't had the opportunity to rest. He will get the opportunity to rest in this upcoming month as he does his recovery. And so maybe this ends up working out for Lamine Yamal. I'm sure that Spanish fans and Lamine Yamal are probably not looking at it from this perspective, but I would just say, take advantage of this rest, take advantage of this recovery and be ready to go for the World Cup. And you're not going to get a tired Lamine Yamal. You're going to get a rested Lamine Yamal that hopefully is able to recover in time. And they do everything that they need to do in order to take care of him. And he'll be at his best for Spain in the World Cup.
Speaker 5:
[04:47] I think that's the thing. Given the amount of games and there's always complaints that modern day players play in today's format coming in, well, coming in to the World Cup, Lamine Yamal and his importance to Spain cannot be underscored. But to Ali's point, he's 18 years old, he'll be rested coming in to the tournament. And yes, there is this question about match fitness, kind of given the break. But let's remember, we are talking about an expanded format in this World Cup. Spain start their campaign against Cape Verde. Let's be honest, that is as good an introduction or reintroduction to football as anybody could hope for. You still expect Spain to kind of cruise through the group stage, that isn't an issue. Yes, it does come into question, kind of given the seeding format. You don't want to be dropping too many points as they did in the group stage, as they did in 2010. I just see Spain kind of making this easy and allowing Lamine Yamal to play as many minutes as he needs in getting back to full fitness, and knowing that the serious tests won't come until at least the second round.
Speaker 2:
[05:51] As you were saying, Alex, Barcelona, Alba are a big drop-off right now with that nine-point lead in La Liga. They should be OK for the end of the season without him. When it comes to Spain, though, how has Spain got to fare if he's not to make it back in time? Right now, they are co-favourites, along with France in the World Cup. How much of a drop-off are they without Lamine Yamal in the squad?
Speaker 3:
[06:14] I think he's enormous because he's a world-class player. And we saw when they won the Euros a couple of years ago that many things went right about that campaign for Spain. The big things was the two wide players they had, in Lamine Yamal and Nico Williams. Now, we've already got doubts about Nico Williams. He's had a really injury-hit season, hasn't hit anything like his best form. We don't know if he's going to go with Spain, if he's going to be anything like the player that he was two years ago. So that's on one wing, but you had Lamine Yamal on the other wing. And hopefully, we will have Lamine Yamal on the other wing. If not, like I say, the alternatives, I think, are really quite a drop-off. We don't yet know exactly what Luis de la Fuente's plan B will be. There's a lot of excitement about young Victor Muñoz, a young winger who's being linked with Real Madrid and Barcelona. Explosive pace and would be sort of a surprise wild card for Spain at the World Cup. Otherwise, it probably looks like a different kind of player playing out wide for Spain. The kind of player we've seen more often for Spain in the past, kind of a creative midfielder playing wide who likes to drift inside, you know, like an Alex Baena or that kind of player. Because in terms of a natural winger like Lamine Yamal, like I say, I just don't think there is a direct replacement.
Speaker 4:
[07:20] I mean, best player in the world. If he's not available, does he make it, doesn't make a difference for Spain? Yes. Yes. I say so. It makes a difference. And a lesser version of Lamine Yamal also makes a difference. And also would concern Luis de la Fuente and Spanish fans. I really do think that right now the priority as it's going to be for the foreseeable future for Lamine Yamal is this recovery and the quality of this recovery. And because you don't have to speed up the recovery, because you're not thinking about, well, he's got to be ready for it. Classico. No, no, you're thinking long term. And so let's do all the things that need to be done in order for this hamstring to be as fully fit as it can possibly be come the World Cup. I really don't think that this is time to panic for both Lamine Yamal and Spain and the Spain fans because I think there's enough time for him to recover. We're in that sort of gray area now where if you get an injury, you're thinking, well, you're done with the World Cup. We saw what happened with Serge Gnavery. I don't think Lamine Yamal is quite there just yet because of the injury itself. I believe he'll be fine. Trust me, I'm a doctor. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:
[08:33] I'm sorry to be pointing some of these questions to you tonight as well, Alex, because we know you're not a doctor. We'll put that out there.
Speaker 5:
[08:39] Nor is Ali. Just to be clear.
Speaker 3:
[08:42] Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:
[08:44] Over in the Real Madrid camp, Edemilla Tau and Adegula are also out for the rest of the season. What more can you tell us?
Speaker 3:
[08:52] Yeah, if you wanted a doctor, Kay, you should have got Sid on because Sid is literally a doctor. I should say not that kind of doctor. But Edemilla Tau and Adegula, we think are both going to be fine for the World Cup as well, but they might well be out for the rest of the season. Similar injuries for them in hamstrings but in different legs. We saw Edemilla Tau go off for Real Madrid. About midway through the Alaves game the other night. Whenever Edemilla Tau goes down, again, you worry because he has been hit harder than any player really by injuries in the last few years. He had sort of back-to-back cruciate ligament injuries in consecutive seasons that have really held him back. So whenever Edemilla Tau gets a knock, you worry. We don't think it's serious and certainly sources close to him. We're telling my colleagues today that they thought they'd be fine. No worries at all about the World Cup, although he will undergo further tests. And the same for Arda Gula as well. Real Madrid will miss both of them. Of course, Edemilla Tau, a really important player since he's come back from injury and back into the team. Yes, they've got other options, the likes of Rudiger and Dean Hausson in defense. Arda Gula has had a really good season for Real Madrid. One of the big sort of good new stories for Real Madrid this season. He would have played a lot for the rest of the campaign, even if Madrid are, as you say, nine points behind Barca in the Tata race. You've got a Clasico, you know, the coach Arbaloa has said, we are playing to win every single one of these games, and then we'll see what happens. And Gula certainly, as well as Militao, would have been a big part of that. In Gula's absence in midfield, it's another chance for Arbaloa, I guess, to play some of the kids, which we've seen he's, he hasn't liked to do in the last few weeks, likes of Chagre Pitaj. You know, you've got Bellingham back in the side now, who can play there as well. Brachim Diaz will get games as well. So yeah, Madrid, let's be honest, don't really have anything to play for, for the rest of the season, but still it's not ideal for them to have those two players missing.
Speaker 2:
[10:32] But what about the veterans at Real Madrid, Alex? Because right now, Alvaro Arbeloa has had to deny a rift with Dani Carvajal in the squad. This is him on not starting him against Alaves in their last game. He says, I have 20 players. I think any Real Madrid player has a chance of going to the World Cup and I will always look for what is best for the team. And then speaking ahead of the game against Betis tomorrow, it's been put to him again. He said, my response the other day was curt and serious to a question I found out of place. It wasn't about Dani Carvajal. You can see my responses whenever I talk about him. Ask my players how I speak about him in front of the group. You're trying to put me in a difficult position in this unfair situation. Now Alex, you've been writing about this over on the website. How big a deal is it or isn't it?
Speaker 3:
[11:25] Yeah, I think Arbeloa made it a big deal with the answer question that you quoted at the start there because like I say, the other night after the Alavés game, normally almost every time that Arbeloa speaks about his players, he sings their praises. He waxes lyrics about everybody. He goes out of his way to praise them. And so it was really noticeable. I was sat there in that press conference for that answer about Danny Carvajal. He didn't. He very simply said, I've got 23 players. It's about what's best for the team. So naturally, everyone will hang on a second. This isn't the tone that Arbeloa normally adopts when talking about his players. What's going on with Carvajal? There has been speculation, I'd say, which I can't speak to the truth of about their relationship in the past. Of course, they knew each other as players. They were both fullbacks for Real Madrid and their paths did cross over briefly. But otherwise, and again today, every time that Arbeloa has spoken about Carvajal, he has spoken him up as being really important on and off the pitch. I think the bottom line is really beyond exactly what Arbeloa thinks of Carvajal. I think what has been pretty clear is that he thinks that Trent is the number one. When Trent has been available in most of the games recently, not in every game, Carvajal started the Madrid derby against Atlético, but otherwise in the big games in the Champions League and in La Liga, he's been picking Trent Alexander-Arnold, because I think it's pretty clear that for the club, for Real Madrid, Trent, at least for now, unless it changed in the summer, Trent is the future right back and he's Arbeloa's number one pick.
Speaker 2:
[12:45] What do you take on it, Ale?
Speaker 4:
[12:47] I'm going to look at it from the perspective of Dani Carvajal. And what I would say about Carvajal is even when he has had his opportunities, the few opportunities he's had, he's looked a little slow. He's looked like he hasn't quite recovered from what was a terrible knee injury. Let's not forget that. And that takes a while. And I think in Dani Carvajal, you have a player that has all this experience and all this know-how. But if the body is not quite reacting to what you're telling it to do the way that he used to do, then all that experience, yeah, maybe you can read the game. Maybe you can get yourself in position where you can defend. But to me, he's looked a step slow every time he has had an opportunity, or most times that he has had an opportunity. He's also been exposed by the fact that this team defensively is disorganized through the midfield. And so it exposes what frailties you may have in wide areas as well. So 1v1 situation, something that used to be a strength for Danny Carvajal. If you're a step slow and my theory is correct, then he gets exposed. And I think it has happened so many times that if you're Arbeloa, you pick a guy like Trent Alexander-Arnold, because you know he's not going to defend either, but at the very least he's going to give me something offensively. That's why I think Arbeloa picks Trent over Danny Carvajal. And Danny Carvajal physically is just not where he needs to be.
Speaker 2:
[14:16] Yeah, Alex, get those questions ready for the press conference tomorrow. We're going to let you go now and we'll see you really soon. Thanks so much for joining us. Make sure to be with us for La Liga this weekend, as we mentioned, that game between Real Betis and Real Madrid is coming up tomorrow. And then across the weekend, as always, you can see every single game in La Liga on ESPN Plus in English and in Spanish.
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Speaker 2:
[15:58] And so, Liam Rosenior was sacked on Wednesday following the 3-0 defeat to Brighton. It was 106 days that he was in the role. A six-year deal had been given to him that is obviously not needed right now. Julien Laurens is joining us. Didi Hamann is with us as well. But Shaka, let me start with you because it's the first time I've spoken to you since this news. What's your reaction to it?
Speaker 5:
[16:21] Unsurprising. On the one hand, in that we're talking about a team that's now lost five on the bounce without scoring a single goal. And kind of given Chelsea's position, and now when we've had Gab on the show, he's told us that Chelsea absolutely have to finish in the Champions League spots to have any hope of balancing their books. That now seems a long stretch. So a change was needed at least in the short term. And in moments like this, that change always comes in the form of a new manager. Whoever that may be. I'll also say, it's unsurprising, kind of given how this club has been run. Given how Blue Co have managed this club on a number of different levels, including hiring and firing of managers, it is absolutely unsurprising to see the club in this position. And unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, Liam Rosenior is going to have, is going to take the majority of the blame for that. But I'm not sure who you bring in. I certainly not know that somehow writes this ship and gets Chelsea into the Champions League places where they absolutely have to be. I just think there are too many issues on and off the park and not a manager with the kind of pedigree or standing to put it all right in such a short space of time.
Speaker 2:
[17:40] We will get into who comes next in just a moment. But Didi, were you surprised with the news?
Speaker 8:
[17:47] No, I've got to agree with Shaka. I wasn't surprised because it obviously started with a circle around the ball, that nonsense a few weeks ago, where nobody I think in the whole of Europe or the world understood what they tried to do. The manager tried to tell us the players had to respect the ball. And I don't think anybody got what he meant. And football is a simple game. And don't go over complicated. You've got to speak a language the players understand. And I think at times when you listen to Rosenior before the games or even after the games with the lost games, I think he was too smart for his own good. And obviously he culminated with a defeat. As Shakha just said, I think five games down in the Premier League without having scored five losses, we need to go at his players. And yeah, I can only agree. I wasn't surprised at all that he had to leave the club because it needs somebody who brings everybody together. Because in the last few months or years, actually, I think everybody who joined Chelsea got worse. And obviously that's not why they balled them.
Speaker 2:
[18:55] Yeah, to that point, Didi, what's it going to take? What type of manager is going to succeed under this ownership group and with all of these players?
Speaker 8:
[19:03] Well, I think you need somebody who's able to communicate with the players and tries to get the best out of the players because at the moment, I think it's just a... We don't see a team, there's no cohesion. I think it's just individual players playing with each other. They don't help each other. They don't communicate with each other. And obviously, it's down to the manager to create an atmosphere of togetherness. You know, the way the manager spoke, the last manager, you know, a lot of the times I felt it was about himself. It's not. Managers don't win games. The players win games. And they spend an awful lot of money, spend fortunes, fortunes on players in the last two or three years. And all the players or most of the players, if not all of them, came to the club and underperformed. So I think they need to communicate. They need somebody who speaks the language of the players and tries to get them back together.
Speaker 2:
[19:55] So let's take a look then at the odds for the next manager to take over now from Liam Rosenior at Chelsea. And Donnie Iriola is the top of that list, followed by Cesc Fabregas, Marco Silva's names on the list, Felipe Luis, Oliver Glasner, Diego Simeone and Frank Lampard as well. What's the word on the ground, Jules?
Speaker 9:
[20:19] Well, it's interesting, isn't it? This list, I mean, you can probably add a couple more names as well, like Edint Tercic, for example, who a few people really like. At the club, for example, Xabi Alonso as well. I think he's, I was told today, was also on their list. The thing is, they want a young coach, for sure. They're adamant, they need a young coach for this young team. Whereas you would think that after what happened, really in the last four years or so, that maybe a bit of experience on that bench would be interesting. And in that list, some have a bit more experience than others, but really they're all quite young compared to, you know, I don't know, let's say like a yoga club, for example, or those kind of managers. Some of them are also maybe not free right now, but like Hiraola or Marco Silva, they are, they will be free agent in the summer because they're not going to renew their contract with their current clubs. Others like Cesc Fabregas, good luck if you want to attract Cesc Fabregas to your club. But the most important thing here really is why would they come to Chelsea? Amongst that list, if we can show the list again even, Cesc Fabregas right now at Como is on to something far more interesting probably than not playing in the Champions League next season with Chelsea if they don't qualify for it. If you're Hiraola, you may think that you will have closed with a more interesting project than this failing project that Chelsea right now have put together. We have the list here again. If you're Marco Silva, it's a little bit different. Felipe Luis played for Chelsea obviously as a player, was really good there, was very good with Flamengo in Brazil but would you fancy that as a first job in Europe? I'm not so sure. Diego Simeone, let's not go there. Frank Lampard I think has been there before and got burned and right now Coventry things are going great for him. And Oliver Glasner, again, at his edge, I'm not sure if he's ready for this kind of job because let's not forget this is a very difficult job because the squad is young but also the people above you are clearly very much interfering with what you do as a manager.
Speaker 2:
[22:10] Of the names there, is there anyone you like, Shaka?
Speaker 5:
[22:13] I'll be honest. It's never going to happen for any number of reasons but the name that jumps out at me is Diego Simeone. It is laughable but let me say, given the issues at the top of this club and given the issues on the park, the only person I think that has the personality that somehow bridges those two and makes any sense of it is Diego Simeone. But that's never going to happen. This is the issue that Chelsea have now found themselves in. You're without a manager, looking for a new manager and okay, that list is there and to Jules' point, there are more names that are added or could be added to that list. But that list, there's nobody that bridges that gap. There's nobody but Diego Simeone that bridges that gap for me. But even see, I wouldn't put a dollar of your money on Diego Simeone becoming the next Chelsea manager.
Speaker 2:
[23:06] I appreciate that. It wasn't there to play with but.
Speaker 4:
[23:11] Why are you taking our money to begin with?
Speaker 5:
[23:13] I'm just saying. I'm not putting my money.
Speaker 2:
[23:15] Top of the list is Andoni Iriola. They like his vertical play apparently according to reports. He's going to be available. He knows the Premier League.
Speaker 4:
[23:22] Okay.
Speaker 7:
[23:23] The vertical play.
Speaker 4:
[23:25] All right. Look, I think in terms of the profile of managers that we have seen from Chelsea, Iriola would seem to fit that profile. The question is, and it's something that Jul brought up, is that there may be other opportunities that are far more suitable for Iriola. See, we're looking at it from the perspective of Chelsea, but what about Iriola saying, wait, wait, wait, this is not the project that I'm looking for. It's not what's best for me. I think a lot of managers are going to be in that same thought process. This is not what's best for me, because I have to learn from the experiences of other managers that I have gone through here and I've said, we can't work under this sort of circumstances and this sort of conditions. In the case of Liam Rosenior, I could not agree more with Didi in that this guy was saying things, well, Didi has been around the game for a while, a lot longer than me, Chaka longer than me. I've been around this game for at least 40 years in one way or another. There are things that were being said by Liam Rosenior that I was like, what? What is that? And how anybody sitting in the locker room would have listened to that. So now you put yourself, if you're Chelsea, in a corner where your job is not nearly as interesting as you think it is. It's not nearly as good as you think it is. In fact, you've created this aura about your job and around your job is like this protection field that nobody wants to get close to that because it has become radioactive. That's a problem if you're Chelsea Football Club looking into the future.
Speaker 5:
[25:00] I will also say and Didi said something that made me think of it. This is a simple game.
Speaker 4:
[25:04] Because I had a lot of experience Didi.
Speaker 2:
[25:06] That's a nicer way to say it rather than look at these old guys around you.
Speaker 5:
[25:11] As Didi was saying, this is a simple game, especially from a player perspective. Now, we're at a point where we're talking about XG and all kinds of money ball and all kinds of...
Speaker 2:
[25:20] Time's clear according to Craig.
Speaker 5:
[25:23] And whenever you listen to the more experienced and successful managers, those aren't things they talk about. Now, you want somebody who can look at the data, analyze it, break it up and then just put it in, you need to run over there to the players, who can take that from the data scientists and then go onto the training ground and say, you need to be there, you need to go there. And keep that as simple. But too often, I get the feeling that younger, more modern day managers bring all this data and drop it in the laps of the players as though they want it. And they don't know what to do with it, they don't want to do anything with it. And that's where the disconnect continues to happen.
Speaker 2:
[26:04] Yeah. Let me lean on Didi's wealth of experience. A lot of experience. A long time in the game so far. Is there anyone on that list, Didi, that stands out to you? Or do you think it will be a case of who actually wants to take this job right now?
Speaker 8:
[26:17] Yeah. Well, I think that's one thing. Does the new manager or whoever has approached, do they think they can turn things around? Because there's a lot of things happening in the ballroom where you wonder whether the people in charge have a clue knowing how to run a football club. And, you know, these guys obviously very much in demand, if you look at Lampard, even though, you know, it just got promoted with Coventry, Simeone done wonderful things at Atletico. But I think he probably wants a break after 13 or 14 years at the club in the summer. Another manager is probably Hurtado from Brighton, who's not on the list. You know, there's talk about him going back to Germany. Maybe Chelsea might be interested as well, but it'll all depend whether these guys think they've got the responsibility and they can do what they want to do. Because it's not all about just what's going on on the pitch. It's also a lot of politics in a football club. And maybe even more so at Chelsea. So does anyone jump out? No, not really. I won't be at all surprised if somebody gets a trouble who's not on the list.
Speaker 2:
[27:18] OK, well, we'll take a look at that. Meanwhile, we want to cast our eyes back at the top of the Premier League table with the title odds as it stands right now. Arsenal and Man City up there at the top. City, obviously, your former team, Didi, are they going to win the title this year?
Speaker 8:
[27:38] Well, these have got a chance. It didn't look too bright about three weeks ago. It looks a lot better now. And obviously, the momentum with City, psychology plays a big role in football and in sports at the highest level. I think part of Arsenal's downfall in the last few weeks or months has been that they felt they've got something to lose. Now we see that ball is in City's court now, because everybody's thinking, well, they've got a momentum now. They've got something to lose now. But City are winners. City won titles in the past. They won the Champions League a few years back. They won multiple league titles. A lot of these players have won the league before. So I would say advantage City. I think it's far from over, because they're level on points. And I think they're even level on goals, with City scoring obviously more goals. That's why they're top of the league. I favor City, I've got to say. But I wouldn't rule Arsenal out at all, because they're in a position now where they are the chasers, and they don't feel like they've got something to lose.
Speaker 2:
[28:38] Bills, what do you think about it?
Speaker 9:
[28:42] I think for us it's pretty exceptional really to have a title race like this, where the two clubs are almost, it's almost a similar position right now, because even if you look at the wins, the draws and the defeats, everything is just so, the pile is so strong. I think it's great, I think it will go down to the wire. For me it's really even, you could give a bit of an advantage to City, I agree with Didi, because they've been there before, because they've won, because they've been in this position for sure. You can look at the fixtures of the two clubs and think, okay, maybe they might drop points there, they might lose there, things like that. I think they also are capable, both of them, to win their five remaining games. The thing that I find a bit strange, and that's the calendar in England, and I think it's a little bit weird, is that by the time City now play their next Premier League match, Arsenal would have played twice at home already in the league. So by the next City Premier League match, Arsenal could be six points clear again of City, having played two games more obviously, so not a seminal amount of games. But still, you would want, we talked about that with Gab on our show this morning, you would want them to play each weekend, one Saturday, one Sunday, or one earlier, and the other one, to have that kind of competitive edge to it and that proper title race. Whereas by the time City play again in the Premier League, Arsenal, as I said, would have played Ducato at home and Fulham at home, which I think is a bit strange.
Speaker 4:
[30:01] So did Jules actually give us an answer as to who's going to win this?
Speaker 5:
[30:04] It's going to be close.
Speaker 4:
[30:05] Is that what we got? It's going to be close. Yeah, I mean, I was hoping for an answer, really.
Speaker 2:
[30:11] All right.
Speaker 4:
[30:11] That's all.
Speaker 2:
[30:12] While we do have Didi with us, actually, as you can see, we have the Pokal semi-final today between Stuttgart and Freiburg. And while we've got you here, Didi, give us your reaction to what we saw tonight.
Speaker 8:
[30:23] I think it was a brilliant game of football. First half, both teams were a bit cautious. It heated up in the last five minutes when Stuttgart got the upper hand after going 1-0 down. And the second half was just end-to-end stuff. And obviously hard on Freiburg. They missed a great chance to go 2-0 up. Stuttgart goes the other end and Undab scores a good goal to make it 1-1 each. And then, you know, woodwork, chances. And with two minutes to go, Thiago Tomas scored a brilliant goal. I think it was a bit harsh on Freiburg because they really played a brilliant game. They played a part in a fantastic cop night here. And you can imagine with two minutes to go in extra time when Thiago Tomas scored a goal of 60,000, the roof nearly came off here. It was just a spectacle. It was great to be here tonight. And in the end, I've got to say, maybe on the basis of the chances over the 120 minutes, you've got to say Stuttgart run out deserved winners.
Speaker 2:
[31:18] Yeah, great stuff. Thanks so much for being with us tonight, Didi. We'll let you go and get some rest. We know it's been a long one.
Speaker 4:
[31:22] And for sharing his experience.
Speaker 2:
[31:24] And for sharing his lengthy experience with us as well. Of course.
Speaker 8:
[31:27] Thanks so much. You make me older than I am.
Speaker 4:
[31:40] Older than me.
Speaker 2:
[31:42] See you later. FA Cup action coming up then. Manchester City against Southampton. That's Saturday's game. And on Sunday, we'll bring you Chelsea against Leeds. You can see these games on ESPN Plus and ESPN 2 for Sunday's clash.
Speaker 10:
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Speaker 2:
[33:07] Neymar's stats so far for Santos are not too bad, but it's some of his antics around his football that have been causing some problems right now, getting involved with arguing with the fans in the stands, putting his hands in his ears, and pretending that he was scratching his ears rather than blocking out the noise of those fans and trying some fancy flicks when his team were losing. That hasn't gone down too well with some of the fans. And of course, it reopened the debate on whether or not he should be going to Brazil in the World Cup. I mean, Jules, Jules' face kind of says it all, doesn't it? What are you thinking, Jules?
Speaker 9:
[33:42] You know what I was thinking, because I've seen those footage which showed them on ESPN Brazil and all of that. I think it's really sad. And I know he's 34, and at some point, those, you know, your age and years just catch up with you in your career, I mean, you can't do the things that you could do when you were 20, and his time playing when he was so young, and all that, he takes his toll. I get, I understand all of that, and it happens to, you know, all the guys, and that, that's just the way things work, but that's just life. However, to, this is the end of, this is the beginning of the end, really, or it's maybe more than the beginning, actually, for him. To be in this position where you start arguing with your own fans, and doing silly things in a game that you should not lose, that you end up losing because you lose the ball in a cheap way like he did, missing chances, looking, to be fair, really not fit, with the dream of going to the World Cup, and then when there's a World Cup in a couple of months time now, where you should be really locked in, focused, trying to get fit, trying to do everything you can to convince Carlo Ancelotti to take you, and for finally what could be the, you know, your last big moment, and hopefully maybe being a great moment for you in Brazil, this is what we're showing now. This is what it's down to. This is what we've been, you know, down to with Neymar. We're showing that kind of stuff. And I find that really sad.
Speaker 4:
[35:00] Yeah, and I think Jules brings up the point that I think is very valid, that now Neymar has become much more about the spectacle around the field, of the field, what he says, what he puts out on social media, whatever his reactions are to the fan, than what we actually see on the field. And the one thing that I would suggest that perhaps Jules has been a little friendly to Neymar, I think the beginning of the end came a long time ago for Neymar. And he has, in his mind, he has made decisions that he thought were going to be fruitful for him and useful for him, the whole romanticism of going back to Santos, so that he could find that feeling that he once had as a young man at Santos. Well he could never find that feeling because he was never that player again. And in order to even get close to being that player, you have to be fit to play, which he hasn't been. And even when he has been fit to play, he hasn't been productive enough. And then beyond that, our conversation is around the fact that he doesn't have Q-tips to clean his ears, and he does it with his fingers. And then he's trying to convince the world that he's not doing this to keep the boos out, that they're booing him, they're booing him because he was doing what he was doing late in the match. And he thinks that we are all dumb enough to say, oh yeah, no, he must have been scratching his ears. That's exactly what was happening here. He takes half a step, I wouldn't even say a full step forward. He takes half a step forward and about 10 back every time. Every time he shows up on the field. And if I'm Carlo Ancelotti and I'm sitting back and I'm watching all of this, I'm saying, do I really need this headache? Do I need this headache? And the answer is unequivocally for me, I don't know for anybody else, for me is no. You don't need this if you're Carlo Ancelotti and you don't need this if you're a Brazilian.
Speaker 2:
[37:01] Do you agree?
Speaker 5:
[37:02] I do. You think that when you see this from Neymar, you see the antics, you see what he has to say, we three of us sat here three, maybe four weeks ago talking about the statement that Neymar puts out. And I was sympathetic kind of given. I felt it spoke to how it was affecting him mentally, how the game and the criticisms were affecting him mentally. Doing as he did at the end of this game in going to the fans, that does not help anybody. That piles on or justifies some of the criticism, some of the language from the fans. The one thing I will say to Neymar and his statements here, the game owes you nothing. The game really owes you nothing. You play this game and he's given a lot to it. But from the time performances starts away, I mean, nobody thinks about what you did 5 years ago or 10 years ago. Nobody gives you that leeway. Now how you deal with it, every single place had to deal with that kind of slow drop off as they get older. Neymar is no different in that regard. And until he realizes that nobody owes him anything, not the Santos fans, not the other fans from other clubs in Brazil, not Carlo Ancelotti, owes him anything, at least finish up what has been a very good career with some dignity because I think this is taking away from that.
Speaker 4:
[38:33] What has happened though, Shag, and I think when... It is obvious to me anyways that he knows. He knows he's on the outside looking in. He knows that the game is running away from him. And he is incredibly frustrated at the fact that he can no longer do the things that he used to do. And he doesn't know how to react to the fact that he is no longer that guy. And in that frustration, it's everybody else's fault. It must be the guy who's yelling at me over there, or the person who's yelling at me from over there, or the people that are booing me over here. It couldn't possibly be me. That I can't no longer do the things that I used to do. And I thought I was gonna be able to find it. And it's lost somewhere. And I can no longer do the things that made me the player that I have been. His frustration is now boiling over. And it is because he's no longer who he once was. And he doesn't know how to deal with it.
Speaker 2:
[39:31] Does Gab Marcotti do the hands in the air, Jules, when he disagrees with you?
Speaker 9:
[39:38] Yeah, he must do something. He rolls his eyes a lot. You know, he pulls like funny faces.
Speaker 2:
[39:43] Yeah, we've seen those funny faces many a time.
Speaker 4:
[39:46] And you know what, I wouldn't have a problem with Jules cleaning his ears like that, just like Neymar did every time he got talked, which is every single minute of that show. Good Lord.
Speaker 2:
[39:56] You can see Gab and Jules over on our YouTube channel. Also plenty of reaction to all the biggest topics in world football. Check it out every single day and click subscribe if you haven't already.
Speaker 12:
[40:09] Hey sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service. Now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cost. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now.
Speaker 2:
[40:41] We've been waiting for this, Shaka. Oh boy.
Speaker 5:
[40:45] Bayern, Piacerello, they can be any arguing there. City are, well, having closed the gap with Arsenal. They end up number three, giving the run they're on. Barca, Inter top in Italy through to the Cup final, PSV top of the Eurodivisie. Porto was a difficult one after losing to Nottingham Forest, but they were down to 10 men after eight minutes, so I give them a little bit of a, give them a, all right, slide in. Juventus, who've now gone eight without losing. Stuttgart, fourth in the Bundesliga into the Cup final. And Bournemouth is my romantic pick. They haven't lost a game since the 10th of January themselves. That's the romance of the game for you.
Speaker 2:
[41:30] Okay. What are you upset about, Ale?
Speaker 9:
[41:32] Well, I'm not.
Speaker 5:
[41:32] You don't like romance, do you? He's not a romantic.
Speaker 9:
[41:34] No, no, no.
Speaker 5:
[41:35] As much as we were trying to claim otherwise yesterday.
Speaker 4:
[41:38] I am a romantic.
Speaker 10:
[41:38] But boy, oh boy.
Speaker 9:
[41:40] Love you, babe.
Speaker 4:
[41:41] Oh boy, oh boy. I don't know where to look. The fact that you have to clarify Porto losing to Nottingham Forest. And yet, you still included Porto. That has its own flaws. But I think we have to give people an inside look. So the behind the scenes look at the process of putting together the power rankings for Shaka. We were an hour before coming into studio to do this show. And while Kay and I are watching the poke out because we were doing the coverage of Stuttgart Friver, a shadow goes running in behind us with speed that we haven't ever seen from Shaka. And he is yelling while he's running.
Speaker 5:
[42:24] My ears are itching. I'm doing my power rankings.
Speaker 4:
[42:27] Let me know when you go in studio. And then there he went. Now people, that is the preparation that goes into this power rankings and then once Stuttgart won the game, they're like to the producer, hey Mike, put Stuttgart in, lancer out, that's it. That is the process.
Speaker 5:
[42:44] Well, they got props for winning.
Speaker 4:
[42:46] That is the romanticism of your process.
Speaker 2:
[42:48] It's a finely tuned machine now. That's right.
Speaker 5:
[42:50] That's right.
Speaker 2:
[42:51] A computer.
Speaker 5:
[42:52] Live updates.
Speaker 4:
[42:54] Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:
[42:56] Are you OK with his power rankings tonight?
Speaker 9:
[43:01] All I can say, all I can give is the name I just pushed.
Speaker 2:
[43:08] Oh, Shaq. He'll be answering your questions.
Speaker 4:
[43:12] There goes Shaq.
Speaker 2:
[43:13] I'm running again. And LA. He was perfecting them, he meant. Not that he was just doing them. He was perfecting them.
Speaker 5:
[43:18] I was just polishing them up.
Speaker 2:
[43:20] Check out our YouTube channel. He's been ignoring texts. Check it out. Every single day. Extra time over on YouTube. Here's Ricardo Pepe, scoring a couple of goals. What does it mean for the US Men's National Team though, Shaq?
Speaker 5:
[43:36] Oh boy.
Speaker 4:
[43:38] I'm sure Shaq is going to talk about it.
Speaker 5:
[43:40] Oh, I absolutely will. I'm another good header.
Speaker 4:
[43:44] Yes, in the upcoming version.
Speaker 5:
[43:46] Yes, sir.
Speaker 4:
[43:47] Is it tonight, Shaq?
Speaker 5:
[43:48] Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:
[43:51] The only use of FC is a warm up for Football Americas. This is just him stretching his legs a little bit, warming up his vocal cords. Herc and Christina will be with Shaq tonight on Football Americas, 8:30 PM Eastern. Yeah, Herc's doing laps around the studio right now, getting ready for tonight's show.
Speaker 4:
[44:08] What about Shaq?
Speaker 2:
[44:09] I know.
Speaker 4:
[44:10] Doing his power ranking.
Speaker 2:
[44:11] Getting a stucco in his neck.
Speaker 4:
[44:12] Pulling a hamstring.
Speaker 2:
[44:14] Nice form. Stay with us, extra times on the way with Jules. Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Jules is joining us to answer your questions. Shaq is here warming up for Football Americas tonight and Ali is here. Taking names tonight and calling people old on the panel. We've got some new hundits on it.
Speaker 4:
[44:34] Is it Didi Hamann or Didi? I said experienced. Didi Hamann is older than you, right Shaq?
Speaker 5:
[44:39] I don't know.
Speaker 4:
[44:40] I went for it.
Speaker 5:
[44:42] Yeah, I'm claiming it. Yes, he is. Yes, he is.
Speaker 4:
[44:45] Hey, you look better, Shaq.
Speaker 9:
[44:46] Thank you very much, Ali.
Speaker 4:
[44:47] You look better, Shaq.
Speaker 2:
[44:48] For all, do you guys see Arteta at Arsenal as being like same Simeone, who was at Madrid a long time without Champions League, only one La Liga and other domestic title, although he was at Champions League final multiple times? He said two La Ligas, Diego Simeone, right? So basically, though, the drawing comparisons is, is Arteta just going to be at Arsenal for a long time, like Diego Simeone, but still win things, Jules?
Speaker 9:
[45:17] I mean, it's hard to answer this question. I don't know what's going to happen in the next few years. I think Arteta is out of contract in June 2027. I think he will extend his contract even if they don't win the title or the Champions League this year, because I think there's still some progression. I know it will be another second place finish. I get that. But suddenly, where the team is going and this club is going, I think he's changed things massively since he took over six years ago. So I think Simone has done a lot of really good things with Atletico. Should he have compete more with Barca and Real Madrid? At times, probably. Yes, sure. There's obviously those two Champions League final against Real Madrid, where one, they almost won it until that Sergi Ramos goal, and the other one, not so much. But I think, I think there's, you will still say that he's been positive, even if some seasons have been more difficult for Simone. So I think he'll probably be the same for Arteta. I hope for Arteta and Simone that they win many more trophies in their careers, but it's again, not easy thing to do either.
Speaker 4:
[46:14] To frame Simone's time at Atletico Madrid as somewhat disappointing would be an incredible mistake to make. It would be incredibly unfair to describe Simone's time as unsuccessful at Atletico Madrid. He has been a very successful, consistently so, at Atletico Madrid doing things that perhaps don't please everybody, but please his fan base, his players, his staff, his group of people. He's always framed it as it's them against the world and that's the way that he has approached it and Atletico Madrid has approached it as well. It may not be for everybody, but Simeone you cannot deny how successful and how much of a club legend he is at Atletico Madrid. So I don't think, even right now, even with the success that Atleta has had at Arsenal, you can put them on the same level. Yes.
Speaker 2:
[47:13] Jules, next for you. Have the Blue Co. ownership group not learned from their mistakes yet? How many more bites at the AFFL do they need to get the right manager?
Speaker 9:
[47:25] It's a good question. I think they obviously partly to blame for making the wrong call every time. I mean, with Rosenior from day one, we said on the show, this was a massive gamble and Rosenior could have stepped up to the task and proved himself and being OK. The thing is, he was not. So that's a massive failure. Graham Potter was very similar. He was a failure. Thomas Tuchel was a little bit different because he could not work with those people. It was very obvious from the beginning. So he decided to to leave. I think Maresca is the one really where they got it the most wrong, probably because I don't think he deserves to be sacked. Certainly not when he got sacked after what he achieved, even just with the club walk up a few months before. Pochettino and Maresca would say himself that he felt things were improving towards the end of that season. Others disagree with that. Clearly, the club disagree with that as well. But yeah, the ownership at Blu Co. And maybe more important than the leadership, those five sporting directors that Chelsea have right now seems to be making mistake after mistake.
Speaker 4:
[48:25] I just... A little update, Shaq. Just we want to keep things factual. You're five years older than Didi Hamann.
Speaker 10:
[48:36] But you look great.
Speaker 7:
[48:38] You look great, Shaq.
Speaker 5:
[48:39] You know, I'll have you know, I'm late 40s-ish.
Speaker 4:
[48:42] Yes. Well, you have been that for a decade.
Speaker 5:
[48:46] Thank you very much, K. I'm late 40s-ish. When last I checked.
Speaker 4:
[48:50] I think it's a compliment to you, Shaq. I don't know what it says about Didi, but it's a compliment to you.
Speaker 2:
[48:55] He'll probably be the first to tell you that lifestyle may be a little different, yes?
Speaker 4:
[48:59] Yes. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[49:01] No, we had Craig with a little bit of a giggle with him before the show the other day. Anyway, as we know, his body is a temple.
Speaker 5:
[49:08] Yes, that too is factual. That too is factual.
Speaker 4:
[49:11] Well, kind of.
Speaker 2:
[49:12] Shaka, are the hamstring injuries to Estevao and Yamal both 18, a red flag about allowing young players who are not yet physically mature to play too many minutes?
Speaker 5:
[49:22] I think we've known that for a long time. This is just the latest in a long string of injuries to players who, I think, have been have been overworked. Something needs to be done. We've been seeing it for a very long time, a couple of years, was it last summer? When FIFA had a meeting with a players association body that was not FIFA, and come to some kind of an understanding and nothing of any significance came of that. Well, they made an announcement, but I don't know what that announcement was, or how it's translated into this game.
Speaker 4:
[49:53] Are you reporting the news here?
Speaker 5:
[49:54] No, I'm just, they make some kind of weird announcement about, nothing's changed, nothing's changed. But then when you don't have the largest players association body in FIFPro at the table, you get kind of washed up ideas coming out, and that's exactly how it's panned out. So we're just gonna have the same conversations now, that we did before that meeting, that we were having two or three years ago. It's not changed, this is just the latest.
Speaker 2:
[50:23] Jules questioned the 60 million paid to Matthias Cunha. Is he now convinced about the price? Has the player, in comparison to other new players in the Premier League, exceeded expectations?
Speaker 9:
[50:38] I mean, Cunha, I don't think has exceeded expectations, no, when you think how much they paid for him and the return on that kind of investment so far. I mean, to be fair to him, I think he's been playing in a position that is not his best position, obviously on the left-hand side in the 4-2-3-1. I think he's done well, considering the situation when Amorim was there, not better, and the Carrick obviously, his relationship with Bruno, as we saw in the Chelsea game, for example, on the goal that they scored together. And it looks quite special. I would like to see more in his preferred position, but as long as Bruno is there, I think it's difficult to do. So for now, he would have to make up on that left-hand side. I just think that, I think they overpaid for him at the time anyway, but after the season he had with Wolves, and they really wanted him, Morin was a massive fan to play behind the striker, as one of the two 10s that he wanted at the time. It made sense, but I still felt it was a lot of money, although he's a really good player, and I think you see that, you've still seen that this season. So I would not put him, you know, sometimes we grade the signings and everything of players, of clubs and players, I would still give him a good B, I think. If not, yeah, B or B+, I think would be fair for Cunha.
Speaker 4:
[51:53] And can I just say, just for clarification, when the question says, as a player in comparison to other new players in the Premier League, he's not a new player in the Premier League, Mateo Cunha. So, a set of apples and oranges here in terms of the question and how the question was put together.
Speaker 2:
[52:09] Yeah, Ali is taking names today as well.
Speaker 4:
[52:11] No, I'm just, I'm not, I'm just-
Speaker 2:
[52:12] Get it guys, get it together.
Speaker 5:
[52:14] I feel like I'm in school today.
Speaker 4:
[52:16] Well, I'm just, I'm just reading the question carefully.
Speaker 5:
[52:19] Jews had enough B, Bs, unless you score 44 goals, you're getting a B.
Speaker 4:
[52:24] B plus.
Speaker 5:
[52:25] B plus. Maybe a B plus if you have an extra sign.
Speaker 2:
[52:29] Okay, Ali, since the World Cup heavily influences the Ballon d'Or winner, what chances do you give Bruno if Portugal win? Seems like Kane, Messi, Yamal are locks if their respective country win. But how about France? Mbappé or Alise?
Speaker 4:
[52:47] I'm going to go with no on that. If Portugal goes on to win the World Cup, which could very well do, talented enough team to at the very least make a deep run in this tournament, I don't think he's going to be in every headline as it pertains to Portugal.
Speaker 2:
[53:07] Oh, really?
Speaker 5:
[53:08] Who do you think will be in the headline?
Speaker 2:
[53:09] Who do you suggest he would be?
Speaker 5:
[53:11] Who would be?
Speaker 4:
[53:13] Gonzalo Ramos.
Speaker 5:
[53:14] Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:
[53:15] All right.
Speaker 5:
[53:16] He's a headline grabber, him.
Speaker 4:
[53:18] Yes. No, I don't believe that Bruno will be at the forefront of everything.
Speaker 2:
[53:23] Okay. Any thoughts on any of the other names that you see there? You agree that all could be on that list? Yes.
Speaker 4:
[53:32] Sure.
Speaker 2:
[53:33] B plus. Julien, Mbappe or Elise, what's the more likely for you?
Speaker 9:
[53:40] Again, I don't think it's just if you win the World Cup because winning is short, but you have to, you know, if you don't score a goal, if Mbappe doesn't score a goal and France still win the World Cup, that means others will shine. And I think his chances to win the Ballon d'Or will decrease quite massively. And I think he'd be the same if Bruno is outstanding in the World Cup and he scored five goals and give five assists along the way for Portugal to win it. I think that would have a massive impact, I think, in the voter's mind, the 100 journalists who vote for the Ballon d'Or, much more than if he goes through, you know, not being that great, but Portugal still winning it at the end. So, I mean, for France, I think, yeah, Kylian, if France do well at the World Cup, it's because Kylian would have done well at the World Cup. So then obviously he would have a bigger chance to win the Ballon d'Or.
Speaker 4:
[54:26] Messi's not gonna win the Ballon d'Or. Even if Argentina wins the World Cup. Yeah, it's a name that's in the list there. So I don't think he would be a lot to win the Ballon d'Or, even if Argentina wins the World Cup.
Speaker 5:
[54:36] Let me also say, I think if France wins the World Cup, Oli Sey will win the Ballon d'Or. And given that I predicted France win the World Cup, put your mortgage on that double-header.
Speaker 4:
[54:46] Dr. Hislop?
Speaker 5:
[54:47] Yes. Get everything you own, take everything you own, pawn it and put it on France to win the World Cup and Oli Sey to win the Ballon d'Or. Thank me later.
Speaker 2:
[54:58] Okay, ready?
Speaker 10:
[54:59] Why would you pawn it? Why don't you just straight up sell it?
Speaker 2:
[55:03] Alright, Chaka.
Speaker 5:
[55:05] Alright. I didn't know we'd do it.
Speaker 2:
[55:08] Wow.
Speaker 10:
[55:09] Chaka.
Speaker 4:
[55:10] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[55:11] After Ale's comments last week, would you be interested in some help for your power rankings, either for the data collection process or the algorithm itself?
Speaker 12:
[55:22] Don't look over here for that.
Speaker 5:
[55:23] What did Ale say last week?
Speaker 4:
[55:25] What did I say last week? I wasn't here last week. I was on vacation.
Speaker 2:
[55:29] That's true. Who's trying to cause trouble out there?
Speaker 5:
[55:32] Stevie's pocket change.
Speaker 10:
[55:34] Well, that will cause a lot of problems.
Speaker 2:
[55:36] Have you had anything to say about them the week before?
Speaker 3:
[55:38] And the week before that?
Speaker 2:
[55:40] He's saying that he just throws them together tonight on the show, Ale.
Speaker 4:
[55:44] Kay, you're a witness to this. So did I tell a lie? Did I say something that was incorrect?
Speaker 2:
[55:53] I thought maybe he was just going to perfect his words.
Speaker 4:
[55:56] No, I don't believe it. It sounded like I'm late with my power rankings. I need to get this thing started.
Speaker 5:
[56:03] I had Google on the phone for the latest results.
Speaker 2:
[56:06] Would you be interested in some help for your power rankings?
Speaker 5:
[56:10] It's perfect. Why are you laughing at that, Kay? I don't understand. You were backing me a minute ago as they got it.
Speaker 12:
[56:22] Kay's got my back here.
Speaker 5:
[56:24] I know. Straight up.
Speaker 4:
[56:26] It wasn't a laugh.
Speaker 9:
[56:27] It was a cack.
Speaker 2:
[56:33] That'll do it for the latest edition of Extra Time. Thank you so much for sending in your questions.
Speaker 4:
[56:38] Love you, Didi.