transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Everybody knows that I am obsessed with my cats, Miso and Ceviche. They are the lights of my life. They bring me so much joy, and choosing the right food is so important to me for their health and happiness. I am always thinking about their health and happiness, which is why I am choosing Jinx for my cats. Made with high quality proteins and real bone broth, Jinx Cat was crafted with picky, particular cats in mind. Proteins like Atlantic salmon, tuna, and cage-free chicken are the number one ingredient. Nourish a healthy gut microbiome with true immune postbiotics. Made with bone broth, not water, for added hydration. Zero fillers like corn, wheat or soy. Jinx Cat for cats with great taste, only at Walmart. When you're doing it all, you need all the electrolytes. So guys, I am so thrilled because I just started working out again. You know, I am a gym girly. I like to lift my heavy weights. And I also like to get my 10K steps a day. That is just what keeps me super happy. 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And in New York City, I would say you have walking rage. And I just had a little incident with a guy, and it got me so heated. And I screamed at him because he was so rude to me. And I, I, guys, I don't know if you know this about me. I will snap. Okay. I, I do have a bit of a temper. I mean, I have mentioned that on the pod before, but I definitely want to admit that to you guys. I have a temper. I would say I'm not like a fighter, but I have a very short temper where if someone is rude to me, I will immediately scream back. I'm not someone who can rise above it. In those moments, I do not do the Michelle Obama when they go low, we go high. I will go even lower. I'm screaming, fuck you on the street, which is so un-ladylike and I'm probably going to regret admitting that to you. When my mom listens to this, she's probably going to be like, goodness gracious, but that's just who I am. Oh my God, I wish I could show you guys a picture of me, so he's never looked cuter in his life. God, I love him. Anyway, today, I have attempted to put together an audio essay. By that, I mean, I've got my English major hat on, and I want to explore the theme of perception in women in three pieces of art that I've enjoyed lately. Okay? Now, this is not perfect. I probably would get a B on this because it's a little bit of a crazy way to string things together, but all jokes aside, I wanted to talk about these three artworks that I have consumed with this common theme as a little bit of a through line. Doesn't line up perfectly, but here we go. So today, I'm going to be talking about Lena Dunham's book, Famesick. I will be talking about Margo's Got Money Troubles. And I will be talking about Madonna's performance with Sabrina Carpenter at Coachella Weekend, too. And I guess my sort of thesis for the, my little thought essay here is that people like to perceive women through their own self-hatred, if that makes sense. People like to perceive women through their own self-hatred, and people like to judge women to validate their own choices, okay? So I've noticed that the people who are the most critical of women in the public eye and general are really unhappy, kind of disgruntled, misogynistic men, but also, I think, unhappy women. And I know in my own online career, my harshest critics, the meanest trolls have all been women. And they're all women who are deeply unhappy with themselves, because have you ever known a really happy person? Like think about the happiest person in your life, and think about, or the happiest woman in your life, say, do you think that they would ever be hypercritical of someone, or be like insane, like rude to someone? No, like they would never be harsh about someone's choices they make about their body or their artwork or whatever. So that's kind of the top line. I also want to remind you of that iconic headline that I always post. It's from like Vulture from a million years ago. And it's like, it's like be hot, have fun, because people will villainize you regardless, which is also a mantra I say to myself all the time. Okay. So let's kick it off with Lena's book. So I am a Lena Dunham fan. I am a huge girl's head. I have always loved her work. I have always been a little confused about the insane hatred towards her in the public eye. And I kind of, maybe I'm wrong, but I sort of believe but refused to believe that it was as simple as, oh, she has like a non-traditional like Hollywood body and she showed her body on girls and that's why people hated her. I think it's more complex than that. I do think that's a big part of it. I think it was at the time, you know, this is why I don't mean to be condescending, but to the Gen Zs listening to the younger girls listening, you have no idea like the lack of body diversity that we had when we were in our young 20s. It was truly, truly, watershed moment revolutionary for Lena to be showing her body and her naked body on girls. It was not tanned, it was not toned, it was not the shape of all the other 90210 people that we would see on our TV. It couldn't be more opposite than something like the OC or Gossip Girl where there's absolutely body diversity. And so that, I understand that that is a big part of it, but the utter loathing that the public had for her was honestly needs to be studied. And I think we get a good kind of snapshot from the inside from this incredible memoir that she's written, but I still don't completely understand why people like dislike her so much. She's, to me, someone who is very articulate, but more than that, she is someone who is very, very aware of her own personality and its limitations and how her behavior makes people feel. And she exemplifies this in the book so beautifully because, I guess if you haven't read it, this is kind of a spoiler, but I mean, it's not really, it's a memoir, so it's like not really a spoiler. She has a chronic illness that is so, so devastating and she at times will, will say to the reader, you know, I can understand how this is completely tiresome for my family or for my boyfriend. You know, I get how annoying this might sound or whatever. So she's a very self-aware person. And for me, like the only type of people that I really get annoyed with are people who are not self-aware. So it's strange that, you know, for the American public, getting Lena Dunham on their screens, someone who is literally exploring her own hypocrisies through the show Girls, who is literally exemplifying the, the silliness of millennial ambition and kind of like a lack of direction. She's literally holding up a mirror in this very honest way. She's saying, these are the things that plague me. These are the things that plague my generation. So it's strange to me that people would have such a negative reaction to that. Now, one could argue that maybe that's why people disliked her so much. Maybe, maybe it's because she represented to so many people, um, their own inability to be a self-starter or to get anything done. Because if you haven't watched Girls, first of all, what are you doing? And second of all, you know, in the show, it's about a group of young girls who are kind of like, they've decided, I think there's a line in the book where she's like, they've decided they want to be successful, but they don't know at what yet. And that's kind of very millennial core. So, you know, I, I still don't understand why the hatred for her. But looking at it from the inside out is so heartbreaking and so devastating because she's a person. Oh, sorry. The point that I was going to make is like, at the time, you had a bunch of celebrities, young celebrities, like I'm thinking about Blake Lively, Misha Barton, people like that, who were so, like, fit the mold and didn't seem to do any self-reflection. And then here you get this young girl who's an incredibly talented writer, who's created this show that is so well liked and so well watched and so highly discussed that, like, I don't know, it's just strange, the things that the public react to. It's honestly very odd that that was the reaction. Anyway, so Lena Dunham is not a person who doesn't care about what people think. And I think that's one of the most painful parts about her memoir is like, you realize it had like a deep effect on her. And she's not a person who would be like, I'm not going to read the comments or like, I'm not going to go on Twitter. She mentions several times in the book, oh, I went on Twitter to see what people are saying about me. I scanned this, I read this review. She's super aware of it and really does internalize all of it in a really interesting way. And I hope I'm not overstepping, but I feel like, okay, she has a really severe chronic illness. But they've proven time and time again that for women, stress and anxiety really, really worsens conditions like chronic illnesses, autoimmune conditions, all that things. She has so many surgeries, she's healing. And maybe this is a little bit woo-woo. But I fully believes your body hears you and your body absorbs what's around you. And if you are absorbing literally nonstop negativity about yourself and about your work and about horrible things, about your relationship, you know, obviously it's going to be more difficult to be in a healing mindset and in a place where you can, you know, pay attention to your body.

Speaker 2:
[11:51] This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. The Devil Wears Prada II, only in theaters May 1st. Twenty years after the generation-defining classic Meryl Streep, Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt, and Stanley Tucci returned to the healed streets of New York and the halls of Runway Magazine in its next chapter. The industry has changed, scandal dominates, and power always comes at a price. Don't miss The Devil Wears Prada II, only in theaters May 1st. Get tickets now.

Speaker 1:
[12:21] When you're doing it all, you need all the electrolytes. So guys, I am so thrilled because I just started working out again. You know, I am a gym girly. I like to lift my heavy weights, and I also like to get my 10K steps a day. That is just what keeps me super happy. And I need a lot of electrolytes. I need hydration after doing that. So you need Gatorade, which hydrates better than water itself. With new Gatorade lower sugar, you can get the amazing hydration you expect from Gatorade, but with no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors. With 75% less sugar and all the electrolytes of Gatorade Thirst Quencher, you'll be back at your best and ready to take on whatever comes your way. All Gatorade electrolytes you love. Try Gatorade lower sugar today. Elevate your tooth brushing routine with Hello Whipped Toothpaste. It comes in two delish flavors, Mellow Mint Dream and Peppermint Stick. The frosty mint waves and lush foaming experience transforms your daily routine from meh to magical. It's dreamy, creamy, foamy and lush with cavity fighting toughness all whipped together in a countertop worthy tube. It's a luxurious foam that hugs your smile as you brush. It prevents cavities, freshens breath, strengthens enamel and tastes amazing. Experience the joy of Hello's Whipped Toothpaste. You just got to try it. Buy online or at a store near you. I want to talk a little bit about her illness. And it's honestly insane that we had no idea how much suffering she was in. And sorry to be corny, but it is that thing of like, you really don't know what people are going through. And look, this is the way that the internet is. This is the way the public is with their celebrities. But I just think it's funny now how so many people who are like posting her book, doing all this stuff, and I'm like, I want to make sure that you weren't one of those people who were being horrible about her or whatever, because people switch up. And I think when I talk about perception, that's important for you guys too. Obviously, it wouldn't be me if I wasn't drawing out lessons from all these things. But people switch up on you. You have ups and downs in life, whether you're a celebrity or not. And let's say, I don't know, let's say you're getting married and then that's a big deal to you, and all of a sudden people are sucking up to you, and people who weren't that nice to you are sucking up to you, whatever. Based on what's going on in your life, people's perception about you will change, and your job is to know who you are, whether you're up or you're down, and regardless of how people think about you. Okay. So I think there's a strong theme in her book of like women not being believed about their pain, especially when it comes to reproductive disorders, you know, PCOS, endometriosis. She actually has endometriosis, but you know, things like that where she knows innately something is wrong with her body, and she is begging doctors to believe her, and she's literally had to beg a doctor to finally give her hysterectomy and get so much resistance, but she's like, I need to do this for myself because I'm actually like at my wits end with my pain and how like bad I feel. There's just this common recurrence and theme of doctors thinking, oh, well, there's nothing wrong with you, and then they go in and they operate and they're like, oh my God, it was so much worse than we thought. Oh my God, there was so many more, you know, like growths than we thought or whatever it is. And I think it's a crucial lesson for all of you listening, that you have to listen to your own body. That's why when I always say, you know, I am not a doctor, of course, but why I always say to you guys, you need to be your own advocate because no one else is going to do it for you. And if you think there's something wrong, there probably is. I felt insane until I got diagnosed with PCOS and endo. I felt insane. I was like, why is my, like, do I have chin hair? But also like I have moon face, but also like I'm retaining so much water. And like all these things, there was something wrong with me. And same with Hashimoto's. I was like, why do I, can I not regulate my own temperature? And why, why am I literally like, I am so like unable to get rid of excess fluid and all this stuff. Women are really in touch with their bodies. I think it's because we, I don't know, I just think women's bodies, because from a young age, we have to go through different cycles every month. We are more attuned to what's going on. We're like, oh, it's this day in my cycle. So I feel like this, oh my God, I feel like shit because I'm about to get my period, whatever it is. So if you feel like something's off, go to the doctor. And if they don't believe you, go to another doctor. And you know, I think another angle of this is that she felt, I wouldn't say she felt ashamed of her pain and her illness, but I would say she was acutely aware of how she felt it could be annoying to people, or she felt like she was running out of good graces with her family, her friends. Honestly, HBO does not come across that well. They were not very generous with her time. They were not very understanding when it came to her needing to take time off because she was ill. But I think still there's this, we see her try and ignore her symptoms for a long time because she's worried about how it will affect her job or how it will affect her relationship or how it will affect what her friends and family think of her. And in the end, that really only makes it worse. That really only makes it 100 times worse for her. And my hope for all of you is that if you have a problem in your body, if you are having an issue, you're like, whoa, like I need to fix this now. I need to take a step back. I need to be strong. I need to take this time off work. I'm sorry I can't do that because I'm not feeling well or whatever it is because pretending that you're okay, genuinely like it will catch up to you at some time. And I think it makes it a lot worse. So I was just really heartbreaking. Okay. So moving on to her relationship, it was really devastating to read how she viewed her. Like it was at first the sweet love story and then the breakdown of her relationship at the same time as her chronic illness is coming to a head, she's getting a hysterectomy. She's kind of like at the lowest point in her life was super, super reflective. And I feel that she did a pretty good job, a pretty fair job of explaining like her role in it. And she's honest about cheating in her book. I think sometimes when people look back at the breakdown of a long-term relationship, they're unable to kind of explain their role in it and kind of look at it from like a critical eye. But I have to give her props because I feel like she does take ownership over the things in her life that frayed on or that sorry, war on her relationship with Jack. So about the cheating, I just wanted to point out, you know, I always say there's different types of cheating. And there's the like, oh, you got drunk at a bar and like hooked up with someone. That's one type. And then there's this other type that's like the relationship is done and people cheat when they're in that position because they either need a reason to get out or they are trying to look at what else is out there. And this is a great example of it because she's her relationship is so broken and so done that she she ends up kind of cheating and then admitting it like right before their relationship ends. But I just thought that was an interesting admission and yeah, I just I it's it's it's really interesting. Oh, also, I wanted to play you guys a clip from her her episode with Monica Lewinsky on her pod. And this is about perception and how she felt like staying with Jack was almost like a marker of well, I'll just let you listen and I'll discuss it.

Speaker 3:
[20:57] My mom is a complete like she's a she's a top and I and I so I thought that everyone was going to be this like modern, evolved, feminist, thoughtful, engaged and like open to dialogue. And that was not even the full liberal arts boys I met were not that. And I pull myself and I talk about this book in a lot of situations that were really damaging and involved complete dissociation to be able to get through them. And I also I'm embarrassed by how much I invested in the idea that being close to a guy who was cool, smart, normatively attractive, that it inferred some kind of worth on me. Like I remember when I had my public breakup thinking, this is going to affirm what everybody thinks, which is I'm unlovable, I'm unappealing, and I loved this person, but also being with them was a marker that I am OK. My boyfriend was successful and handsome and likable, and it meant that I was all of those things too.

Speaker 1:
[22:04] And that reminded me, you guys, of I can't remember what episode it was, but I was talking about it the other day when I was like, I have definitely fallen into the trap before of liking guys because I think they're cool and because I think that makes me cool. I was talking to you guys about how when you're really triggered about a guy, it's usually because he has something that you feel you don't have. And for me, that's coolness. I think all of my biggest hang ups with guys, not even that I've loved the most, but that have screwed me up the most are guys that I think are cooler than me. And I thought that was so interesting what she was saying about how she felt that dating Jack was a marker of her kind of, by association, like, that would help her perception of her and that when they broke up, it would affirm all the things that people didn't like about her. And that's such a dangerous trap to fall into. And she speaks so beautifully about it here and also in the book. But I always now, at this point in my life, I'm like, when I'm dating a guy, I'm like, what actually, I want to be super clear about the things that I like about him and that he likes about me and what this means. Because I think it's a natural human thing to think, oh, what do people think about my relationship? But it's so dangerous for women to do that. And put another way, I'm thinking about an imaginary girl who's dating in New York City. And she, I'll even use myself as an example. Okay, there was a time when I was in my mid to late 20s that I was so desperate to feel normal, that I was obsessed with the idea of dating like a finance guy. And I know that's so funny now because now I'm like, I want a guy who like dates tattoos or has tattoos and like is an artist or whatever. But like, there was a time when I was so obsessed with it because I felt like by association, it would make me more normal. And I was trying to fill a void. I was trying to fill a hole in myself because I felt so I felt so other it again, which is so different from me now. But I just really like that, that connection to perception and the people we date and how we think that that will change what people think of us. Okay, I want to move on. Oh, sorry, one last, another example of that is like, is like her body image and she talks a lot about her, her fluctuating weight in her book and how obviously the people were so mean about her body, and how there were times when she was thinner, and it didn't necessarily make her happier, but she felt like it was a marker of acceptance for people elsewhere in the world. So it's just really dangerous to do things because you want people to think about you a different way, I guess is my really simplistic way of saying it. I definitely went through an entire year right after I was canceled, where I was really obsessed with what people thought of me, and it was genuinely one of the hardest times in my life. I mean, maybe it wasn't a year, but it was probably about a year. But I was so preoccupied with what people thought about me. And ironically, when I started social media, I didn't think about it. I didn't care. I was just doing, I wasn't thinking. But in that moment of deep trauma, when I just felt like my entire world was turned upside down, I became super, super preoccupied. And I would read comments and I would just be in the weeds. And it took me a while, but then I was like, I am becoming a person who does things. Like I could feel myself making decisions, even when the camera wasn't on, because I thought, oh, well, they'll like me more if I do this or they'll be upset if I get this drink or whatever it may be. I heard the voices of the general public more in my head than my own voice. And I know I'm literally 1% of what she is, but I'm just relating my own experience to her and trying to tell you guys, it doesn't matter if you're not in the public eye or not, you have to live for you because you come out the same way you go in alone, okay, and you have to be good with yourself. And when I tell you that was the most unhappy time in my life, I literally remember I was so traumatized, like I remember getting a coffee and I was thinking, oh, well, they will be thinking like, if they knew that I got this coffee, they would think this and that about me. I remember that moment and I was like, whoa, Tinx, like, you need to get back to yourself girl, because this is scary. I could talk about this book all day if you haven't read it. I really highly recommend it if you haven't watched Girls, obviously it's one of my favorite shows and it's a work of art and it's a time capsule and I love it and I love Lena Dunham.

Speaker 2:
[27:03] This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. The Devil Wears Prada II, only in theaters May 1st. Twenty years after the generation defining classic, Meryl Streep, Anne Hathaway, Emily Blunt and Stanley Tucci returned to the healed streets of New York and the halls of Runway Magazine in its next chapter. The industry has changed, scandal dominates and power always comes at a price. Don't miss The Devil Wears Prada II, only in theaters May 1st. Get tickets now.

Speaker 1:
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So I cannot recommend Wayfair enough. It's just so beautifully curated, easy to shop on the website and it comes so fast. So shout out Wayfair, we love you. Wayday is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to wayfair.com, April 25th through the 27th to shop Wayday. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. So I want to talk about Madonna. Obviously, I made a video about Madonna. I didn't feel like the reaction was to be blunt. I didn't feel like it was enough. She is iconic. She's the queen of pop. She is an icon living. And I think that's honestly a different discussion. I think that's more about people who have their phones and Gen Z not really caring about history or kind of, I don't know, they just seem a little indifferent towards what has come before, which is fine. But I mean, I just think, you know, she is kind of the blueprint. She's where all this other stuff has come from. So it's cool to know about her. What I want to talk about is Madonna, like the comments about her appearance and about, I guess through talking about her and Sabrina, I want to say how you show you can't really win. So this is more mounting evidence for, you can't do things for people's perception of you, because you literally can't win anyway, and you will just be chasing, you'll be like a dog chasing its tail because it will never end. Madonna goes up, she's wearing this corset that she wore 20 years ago or whatever. I think she looks amazing, and she sounds great. She's dancing. She's 67 years old, by the way. Go and look at a 67-year-old in suburbia somewhere, and tell me if they could get on a stage and shake their ass, and sing their heart out in front of literally hundreds of thousands of people. I didn't mean to shit on suburbia, but you know what I mean. It's just really funny with women who are in the public eye, because if they do get worked on, they're vain, and people were commenting the nastiest stuff about her being like she looks deformed, like she shouldn't wear that, all this stuff. And if they don't do anything to their faces, then they are like, wow, they're letting themselves go. It's the same with weight. You cannot win with weight. That's honestly why I don't talk about it anymore, because it is literally like gotcha culture with women, and you cannot fucking win. And I thought it was so sad that the internet, the dregs of the internet were commenting about how she looked, and whether she should be there, whether she should not be there, all this stuff, and not celebrating this absolutely phenomenal feat of her. Dancing on stage with Sabrina was incredible, and Sabrina is not exempt from this either. Think about when Man Child came out, and there was so much fucking discourse about feminism. Oh my God, is she setting feminists back? Oh my God, is she not having a good discussion about this? She's not saying what we want, and it's like, first of all, she's an artist. She is allowed to create the art that she wants to make. Second of all, for me, I do feel like Sabrina is feminist, okay, for me. Now, I'm not in the weeds. I'm not a theoretical feminist. I have my own version of it, and that's how I live my life. But she has so many, her entire kind of narrative about men is very cheeky and funny, and I don't feel like Sabrina creates art for the male gaze. On the contrary, I think she has a uniquely, it's almost like she's using men, which I don't know if we want to go that far either, but her art, that's the tone of it. It's not, but all this to say, it wasn't enough for people. People say she's too sexy, people say she's not sexy enough, all this stuff. It's absolutely exhausting, and I feel jealous on women's behalf that male artists, they don't have the same dissection of their personalities, they don't have the same critiques, and just the perception of women is relentless. Women cannot just create. I was trying to think before I was doing this episode of a celebrity, a female celebrity that has no negativity towards her, and I was like, well, Jane Fonda and Dolly Parton. But that's only now because they're older, and we forgive the oldest women because we feel like, well, we have a very short memory, but there was so much criticism of both of them, like Dolly Parton not having children, all this stuff, like things that they did. It's only now in the autumn or winter of their life, whatever you want to call it, that people have stopped being critical of them and then not even really, people just will still make comments about their appearance. The point is, I don't have time in this lifetime to dismantle why everybody does that and why people hate women so much. But what I can do is point out to you guys that you can't live for people's perception of you. It is literally a fucking trap and you have to have a healthy sense of entitlement and be like, I'm doing me for me. And this relates to timelines, marriage, kids, getting married, not getting married, jobs, all of that shit is exactly what I'm talking about, you guys. Like when you call me and you say, oh my God, I'm like 30 and I'm freaking out because like everybody in my town isn't married or is married and I'm not or whatever. That's when you need to like take a deep breath, lower your shoulders and be like, I am living for me. And as long as I am good with myself, like that's where I need to be. It's so hard for women and I understand that, but I think it's a really, really important lesson. And then to round it out on a little bit of a lighter note, Margo's Got Money Troubles. Obviously I read this book and I recommended it to you guys last year or whenever it was. And the show on Apple TV is such a fucking delight. And I was thinking about Margo as a character. And in the book and in the show, I think something that really stands out is that she actually, she doesn't for the most part care what people think about her. And she is to me a protagonist who cares deeply about what she thinks about her. And it's not to say that she doesn't acknowledge her missteps. Like there's several parts in the book and also in the show where she's like, I am aware of my own mistakes or, you know, I'm aware of my own stupidity or something like that, because referring to the fact that she like had a baby with this guy and he doesn't want anything to do with her or whatever. But she always thinks still like highly of herself. Like she always holds herself in high regard and she always celebrates her, like her talents. Like she always says, I know I'm a good writer. Like I know I can do this. Like even when she's really struggling with her new baby, even when she like things feel really bad, she has like a self-assuredness that is very attractive. And I think that's why as the reader or the watcher, you are rooting for her 100 percent. Even if you disagree with her choices, you're always rooting for her. And my opinion is that's because she has this, this combination of like self-assuredness, but self-awareness as well. That's the secret sauce. If you can be self-aware, but not give a shit about what people think about you, you will go really far. And that's kind of where I want to leave you guys today. I hope this was inspiring. I hope you go watch and read all of these things that I've spoken about. It's so important for me that you guys have good self-esteem and that you hold yourself in high regard because other people won't, okay? Other people will judge you on how you look, on what you do, on if you're married or not, on if you choose to have children or not, on every little decision that you make. And you can't stop that, okay? But what you can do is work on your self-esteem and work on building a shield of self-esteem so that people's perception of you does not affect what you do. Because as we've seen from these artists and my own experience, that is no way to live. So live for yourself, be hot, have fun because people will villainize you regardless, as that headline says. All right, you guys, that was the show. I hope you all have an awesome weekend and I'll see you back on Monday for another live show. Until then, be good. Bye.

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