transcript

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[00:30] This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

Speaker 3:
[00:32] Last year, I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself.

Speaker 2:
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[00:57] Living a busy life, navigating a long-distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 4:
[01:30] I was selling to prison to survive.

Speaker 5:
[01:32] Out of 30 years, what do you think was your worst death?

Speaker 4:
[01:34] Comstock is glad I eat in school. You'd never go to the yard without a knife. I got a cut on my face over here. I'm chasing him. I jumped on his back. I started grabbing his head and smashing it into the pavement. Love being back, man. I enjoy it. I enjoyed speaking to your comments. Even the negative ones make me laugh.

Speaker 5:
[01:52] John Moore returns to share more stories from his 32 years in prison, including the craziest moments, close calls, and times he almost didn't make it out alive. If you haven't watched it yet, make sure you check out my first interview with John Moore. The link is in the description of this episode. So, you spent over 30 years in both New York and Connecticut, state prisons combined. Today, we're gonna hear some of your untold stories that the world hasn't heard about from your time there. And if you haven't watched part one, go watch it.

Speaker 4:
[02:28] I'll give you a personal one. I'll give you a personal one from when I was older, and then I'll give you one when I was younger. That way you can see the difference, if that's cool. This one here is when I was older, I was in New York prison and I was in SEG. And when you're in SEG in New York back in the day, you could smoke cigarettes. And depending on where you were in the cells would depend on where you went to commissary. And you'd have different numbers, you know how the commissary work. And then we would be in these little tanks, and the tanks would be five cells, and there'd be like a little plexiglass divider, then five more cells. And that tank would be basically like where you went to the wreckage with, where you went. You're in Seg, so it's very little contact. But we used to fish with each other. And like I had a friend that was all the way in the back. And what would happen is it's a pain in the ass. You've got to rip your sheets and get these lines, and send a fucking line all the way down the tier. If you're lucky, you get it down to 65 cell, because he's got a box of top for you, because you want to smoke. You're dying. That's what you have when you're in Seg. You got books, you got cigarettes, and stories, war stories. The problem is you got sneak thieves that will steal your shit off of your line, and there's nothing you can do, because there's guys that are in Seg in New York that are never coming out. That's what they do. They just sit in Seg, and they do their bid that way. So I had this Dominican next door, a Dominican kid. Spoke very little English. Used to steal stuff all the fucking time. And you'd have to really hurry to get the line pulled past his cell. And there's just a little bit of space, and you know, you've been in these cells, so you got your arm out the bars, you know, somebody's looking through the crack of the thing, you're pulling a sheet. It's underneath the divider. And I swear, bro, that fucking box at top was, I could see it, man. And I need to smoke, man. My lungs are on the gate. So I'm pulling this fucking string, and his little hand comes out, grabs the box at top, pulls it in. And I said, well, what the fuck? I said, I knocked on the wall. I go, give me my fucking cigarettes. I hear him laugh, ha ha ha ha. Fuck you, white boy. Bro, I didn't know what to think. I had no way of getting him. I want to smoke. That's all I gave. It relaxed me, man. I didn't get high or nothing. I liked to smoke cigarettes back then, for whatever reason. I fucking, the walls in the cell were, you got like metal walls that divide the cell, the cement floor, bars, different cells in different jails. But this one here had metal walls. I start banging on the fucking wall, boom, boom, and it's echoing. I'm screaming, give me my fucking cigarettes. I'll fucking kill you. Give me my cigarettes. And he's laughing at me over there. And then as the day goes on, I'd see his arm come out with the cigarette and he'd be smoking it and blowing the smoke into my cell. I was so fucking mad, dude. To this day, I still get mad. I don't even smoke no more. So I couldn't get to him. I didn't know what to do. When you're in Shegg, you get Styrofoam cups. Drink your water, whatever. If you're lucky, you get to keep one. They come in. When you go to rec, sometimes they come in and take them, whatever. I had lucky back in the day, you put it in your bed, it never bothered you. So the only thing that I could do was make a concoction, a bomb concoction. When you're in Shegg, chemical warfare is a thing. Back then, slinging shit was a thing, and I would sling some shit. My theory is, you can beat me up at the end, but I still threw some shit in your face, dude. So who really fucking won, right? And we can't get to each other, so why not? So I had a little styrofoam cup, and I put a little poop in there, and I got a little milk, and I put it in there, and I got a little water, and I put it in there, and I mix it up. Put the lid on it, you know, you get the little coffee cups, you put the lid on it, you got in a thing. Now, every other week, you go a different way to the shower. One week you go this way, one week you go that way, they come to your door, you get handcuffed, your shackle turn around, they escort you down, you know the whole, no, you can't move with nothing. So I'm racking my brain, I'm like, how the fuck am I gonna get this thing out? Cause I didn't have any personal towels at this point, cause I didn't have anybody sending me anything. And instead you could get like, still personal towels, small things, not a lot, but limited, washcloths. And so I had state stuff, so I always had to get whatever the fuck was down there when I got there. I never had nothing in my hand. So I was trying to figure out what I was going to do. So first week, they go this way. And I had to, every day, I would take that cup and this thing stunk, and I would stir it, put a little water in there, and I would stir it with whatever spork that I got. And this guy, every day, bro, he would smoke, white boy, fuck you white boy, I smoked your cigarettes, suck my dick, your mother fag, fuck you. Like just talk shit to me. And I, every day I'd bang on the wall, nothing. Nobody gave a fuck, everybody laughed at me, whatever. So finally, the day comes where we're going this way, and I see that we're going here. Now his cell is here, my tank is here. You know under the plexiglass, my door is here. I hear him coming, and I'm still at this point, again, I don't know, I think about things at the very last minute, it'll come to me and I'm like, oh, that's a good idea, let's do this. So I'm looking at the cup and I'm like, my heart's beating, I'm like, what am I going to do? How am I going to throw it out? The cop's not going to let me do it. I've got nothing in my hand. So I turned around, the cop comes in my front, son of my cell, he goes, Moore, you ready? I said, yeah. And I turned around and I grabbed the cup and I went, and I turned around. And when I turned around, I went, and the cop went, Moore, what's in your mouth? You got something in your mouth? I went, he goes, for me? I went, he goes, let's see where this is going. So they let me out of the cell. Brother, I'm telling you, I had everything I could do not to start gagging. I had like tears coming out of my eyes. So I come out of the cell, I take maybe one or two steps, I turn left. When I turn left, he's on the bars with his hands out. Fuck you, white boy. And I spit that shit in his fucking face. And then I started to throw up and gag, because as I did this, you got to realize I also swallowed it. So I, and I'm gagging and I'm throwing up, the cop is like, what the fuck did you do, Moore? The guy's screaming. And I don't know if it was the throw up, if it was the excitement, but it was, it was so bad smelling. They dragged me down to the fucking shower. They throw me in the shower, handcuffed shack. I'm still throwing up on the floor. Water's pouring on me. Still handcuffed and shackled in there. Must have been like 45 minutes, hour that come down. The cop goes, what the fuck was that? What was in there? So I told him. He goes, why? I said, because he stole my cigarettes, and I couldn't get to him. He said, we had to evacuate the tank and clean the cells. I, whatever. He wrote me up for it. I didn't do anything to him. I was like, fuck it. Everybody's going to be pissed off at me again. I did something crazy and stupid. So I come on to the shower with the cop, start walking down the tier to my cell. And as I'm walking by, dudes are like, yo, Jay, you a crazy motherfucker, boy. What is wrong with you? You really spit shit in that boy's face? Everywhere I went down there, dudes were like clapping. They were happy. I got in front of that kid's cell. He said, like, boy, please, no more, no more shit in the face. No more. I don't know. Don't spit no more shit in my face. I never asked for another cigarette as long as I was there. And that's a hundred percent. I never just that it was barbaric. But what did it taste like shit, sour milk and and and and the worst bile and anger that you could think. See, it was horrible. But at the same time, unfortunately, I had already wiped shit on my body to fight the CEO. So it wasn't my first dance with shit. You know what I mean? When when you're treated like an animal, you act like an animal. When they put you in seg, they treat you like like, you know, you might go in there for the stupidest of things. And then they come to your cell. Like I tell my wife and my kids all the time, you'll be in a cell, you'll have nothing. No, this isn't a time when they had Ferguson's or them little teeny thin mats. I don't know if they have them in the feds, but in the state, they got these little thin. They didn't have none of that back then, brother. It was a bare cell, bare naked, nothing. The cops used to bring in, like in Gardner, they march you in, set you on your hands and knees, put your face in a mattress and rip your clothes off, handcuffed and shackled, rip them off of you. It's like you're being raped. Like at some point you're like, well, you know, am I gonna feel shoulders and like hands on my shoulders or something? It's weird. When they treat you like an animal, you start acting like an animal. It has a very metallic taste. It's gross. I have a bad stomach now because some of the stuff that I've put in my mouth and spit in people's face.

Speaker 5:
[11:42] Did he ever retaliate against you when you guys both got out of SEG?

Speaker 4:
[11:45] No, I never saw him again because he was one of them guys that would never get out of SEG. See, you have like, I don't know about the feds, but in New York prison, you'll have PC. You'll have IPC, which is involuntary PC where the administration puts you in. And then you'll have the dudes that'll go to SEG, and they'll be SEG warriors where you're safe in SEG. If you go to SEG and you don't want to deal with people, you can read your books, you can write your letters, you get your three meals a day. If you're quiet and you don't bother nobody, you can do a decent bid there if you're that type of guy. You know what I mean? And there's guys that do that, that just stay in SEG and never go to population. They choose not to go to PC, and they just choose to catch tickets, but they're scumbags because they're trying to survive. What I call a scumbag is not what I really, I call them a scumbag, but I understand now. They're just trying to survive. What are you gonna do when you got nothing? This guy's got a pack of cigarettes coming by. Fuck, I would have stole it too. If I'd have been him, I'd have stole it from me. Why not?

Speaker 5:
[12:45] Now, is that just on principle, like jail house, prison rule type principle that you felt like you needed to do that?

Speaker 4:
[12:53] Well, I have a thing where I don't go out of my way to do anything to anybody. Like I never went out of my way to do anything to anybody. Any, not true. Let me, I've done crimes and nobody did anything to me. The crimes that I committed, let's be real. I committed crimes, but like any like violence in prison or any of the stuff, it started like I said before, because I was sexually assaulted. That was the beginning of a lot of. And in prison from day one, it was just, you know what I mean? It never, it never, it never ended. I think I lost track on what you said a little bit there. Could we?

Speaker 5:
[13:37] Oh no, just about if you felt like it was on principle, that you had to retaliate against that guy. All right, listen up. Before we get back into this episode, I got to tell you about something I've actually been using lately. I've been using Lucy, which are 100% tobacco-free nicotine pouches, and specifically the mint breakers. And I'm telling you, these are different. So the way they work, you take one, and there's this little capsule inside. When you crack it with your teeth, you get the instant burst of flavor. And with the mint, it's super clean and refreshing. But the biggest thing is, it actually lasts, which most pouches don't. For me, I've been using them when I'm editing, driving, even before workouts. Just gives me that steady focus and energy without overdoing it. And I've noticed the same thing with people around me, too. Whether they're working long shifts, in the gym, or just hanging out, this is what they're going to now. They go all the way up to 12 milligrams. The shape feels good. And again, they're completely tobacco-free, which is a big plus. So if you're into pouches or looking to try something new, this is honestly one of the better ones I've used. Lucy is the only pouch that delivers long-lasting on-demand flavor. Get 20% off your first order when you buy online at lucy.co.uk/ianbick with promo code ianbick. And if you don't want to wait, check out their store locator to find Lucy near you and grab it today. And here comes the fine print. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age, and every customer is age-verified. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 4:
[15:18] Yeah, it was my principle. It was my principle that he stole something from me, and if I let anybody see that, anything, any small infraction is a mark on you. See, and a lot of it is a fake facade that I learned when I got higher in the prison level. When you're on the bottom, they'll tell you you don't tell. They'll tell you you're supposed to, if this guy doesn't eat, you don't eat. So you do that because it is, it's a sense of honor. It's a sense of I'm supposed to be this man. But really, at the end of the day, none of the other dudes have it, but they expect you to do it. So yeah, I did it as a sense of honor, and because other people would have viewed me as less than, and at that time, I needed to do anything to survive in prison. For me, prison was, in many aspects, it was a choose your own adventure of violence and debauchery, where I had to make decisions to survive, whether the right ones are the wrong ones, they were the right ones for me. And sometimes at that time, I made decisions for other people, and it wasn't until years later that I learned. So yes, yes, I did it for, because it was an honorable thing in front of everybody, but really because, who the fuck are you to take something from me like that? We're both starving, and I'll share it with you, man. You ain't got to steal nothing from me. You're going to take my cigarettes? All you had to do was knock on the door and be like, hey, Jay, can I get a cigarette? Instead, you're going to steal the whole box and then talk about my mother. I was so fucking mad, dude. I had taken a nail clipper and clipped little pieces of skin off of him and ate it if I could at that point. I was so mad. That's all I had was books and cigarettes. Motherfuckers.

Speaker 5:
[17:14] Now, what was the story from your younger years?

Speaker 4:
[17:17] Okay. So this will be a first time. So I talked about this with my wife. And to be honest with you, I have an image in life. We all do. We have an ego. I'm a dad, I'm a father, I'm a husband. There's people in prison who still talk about me. There's stories that are told about me. So I have an image. And it's not that I have an ego, it's that I worked hard for that. And in prison, it might not mean anything to anybody out here. But in prison, as I told you before, I was at the bottom and I worked my way to the top. And that was important to me. So for me, it's hard to tell. I'm sorry. It's hard for me to say some of this stuff. So when I first went to prison, I was 16 years old. And I was young. I didn't have no hair on my face. I mean, I wasn't an ugly dude. I was a pretty good looking dude. And the sexual predators that were in Connecticut were enormous. Now, I'd never been raped in prison. I've had situations where it was close. I've had situations where I've had to manipulate my way out of it, because again, you gotta realize, you see me now at two, 300 pounds. I was a little teeny kid back then that had just come out of the house eating fucking cereal, watching cartoons. What did I know about a 320-pound cock diesel, bald-headed, you know? What did I know? Standing in front of my cell. It's scary. And I think maybe because I had been sexually assaulted or whatever as a kid, I wanna say that I knew what they were coming for. Like it was a sense. You can tell before it happened. You can see the patterns. So, I was put in a lot of situations where, because I'd get in so much trouble with both inmates and COs, that they would lock me in very segregated areas. And when I was in the Litchfield County jail in particular, they had put me in a section where it was just me and the sexual predator, one of the worst sexual predators in the state of Connecticut at that time. And his nickname was Chill Will. Black dude with a bald head and a cockeye. Cockeye diesel, big on top, skinny little legs. Because they never used to do squats. They do a thousand pull-ups, but nobody wanted to do fucking squats. I love squats. Fuck that. Anyways, so I was in this area. And again, no cameras, there's no other inmates, it's two cells. And then there's like a cage that they would lock it in. And they would let one inmate out for his little time, and you'd be right in front of the cell. And then you'd be like a little shower over there. So this guy was a known, but he wasn't like a sexual, he wanted to suck your dick. Yeah, you like, you know what I mean? Like he wanted you to fuck him. Like he was just a big, big queer. He was a big sissy back then. I know it's probably not a popular word, but that's what he was. And a big, you know, trying to be a gangster, but he would prey on little white boys, and he would prey on all the little young people. And it was so bad that he couldn't be around any other inmates, so they put him in the special housing unit, and here I am throwing buckets of water on people and acting like an asshole, and I get locked up back there. So it's me, it's him, he's in his cell, and I'm in my cell. And, you know, back then, there used to be tons of porn in the prisons, tons of porn. And you guys knock on your wall, be like, hey, you want a short-eye book, kid, or whatever? And I used to know when he would hand me a short-eye book, I'd know he'd be like peeking at me or something. And I'd be like, fuck, this dude is peeking at me. But I would notice that if I just wouldn't say anything, and I just let him do his fucking thing, he wouldn't bother me, dude. And I'd get a couple of crackhead soups, or I'd get some cigarettes, you know? He never had to never touch them or anything like that. It was nothing like that. I mean, it was what I had to do at the fucking time to survive, man. I was a kid. What the fuck am I supposed to do? I got this fucking grown ass... If you've never dealt with a fucking sexual predator, dude, a violent sexual predator, you're not gonna know what the fuck I'm talking about. But if you have, then you fucking know that... You gotta play the game somehow without... So I played the game, I know. If I have a car to peek in, I'd be like, hey, what the fuck are you doing? So he would learn, you know, that I didn't want him to know that I was peeking. But you know, like this was a progression. Like he would come out in front of my cell trying, and he'd come out butt naked, and stand in front of my cell, and open his butt cheeks, and finger his butt, and be like, hey, you wanna fuck me? I'd be like, no, I don't wanna you, man. Let me watch you jerk off, right, man? Jerk off. I was a skinny white kid. I don't know, I used to like to watch me jerk off, so I'd jerk off for him. And he never bothered me, never tried to rape me, never went further than that.

Speaker 5:
[22:57] Would he pay you?

Speaker 4:
[22:59] I never had to worry about smoking, I never had to worry about eating at night, extra commissary, and I never had to worry about him coming and bothering me. Like, that was the most important. There was no, it wasn't a money system. I got paid from a Jewish kid years later in New York. I had this Jewish guy who was a freaky dude. And again, he would come by the cell, I was a young kid, I didn't have anything, I didn't have any money or anybody on the outside, and you gotta get shit, because back then, you got nothing. So if you want a Walkman, everybody else got a Walkman. I'm in here with you, I want a Walkman. I ain't got nobody to buy one. This guy came by one day, and he kept coming by and bothering me. He used to get the Jew food in the boxes for the Jewish people, they get all the best food, they get the kosher food, they get all the fresh fishes. Are there others like that in the feds?

Speaker 5:
[23:55] Not fresh fishes, but I don't know. Good stuff. The kosher food was frozen.

Speaker 4:
[24:00] Oh, okay, that's what I mean, yeah. But they'll get the fresh vegetables, they'll get like salads, they'll get all good shit, carrots and eggs and shit that you don't get nowhere else. And he'd come by and he'd give them to me all the time. But again, there's never a gift given without something wanted. I know what's going to happen. But again, I was okay with a motherfucker looking at me. I even write a motherfucker a dirty letter, I didn't give a fuck. I got taught from people. I had a next door neighbor one time that taught me all that, to taught me how to write to people and scam her for money. I mean, I wasn't an ugly kid back then. I wasn't, and again, I'm not gay. If I was gay, great. Dude, if I was gay, I wouldn't have had to have escaped from prison, went to a whole other state to find the love of my life. I could have just stayed in prison and did that. You know what I'm saying? Like the gay thing, it wasn't ever that. And once I got old enough, I didn't have to be bothered by that.

Speaker 5:
[24:58] What happened with the Jewish guy?

Speaker 4:
[24:59] Oh, I'm sorry. Gosh, I do it all the time.

Speaker 5:
[25:01] People want to know what happened at the end of the story.

Speaker 4:
[25:04] So the Jewish guy used to come by myself all the time, and he'd offer me stuff or whatever. And he used to reach in and try to touch my hand, and I'd pull my hand back and be like, you don't touch me, dude. He'd be like, well, you know, I could make your life better. I was like, well, I'm on the Walkman. I'll show you my dick if you give me a Walkman. So he's like, really? I was like, yeah, I'll show you my dick. I'll let you look at it, but I want a Walkman. He goes, well, what else you want? I go, I want some tapes. There was a kid that was selling a Walkman, and he was selling tapes. And it was Guns N Roses, Appetite for Destruction, Use Your Illusion 1 and 2, The Kinks' greatest hit soundtrack, and like Elton John. And he was like, well, I want you to jerk off for it. So I was like, okay, get me my Walkman, and get me my tapes. And when you come by for your shower, I'll have my shit rocked up, and I'll fucking spank it for you. What the fuck do I care? You're the freak that wants to watch it. Like, if that's, you know, when I can get paid for it, I'm in prison. I, what am I supposed to do? I gotta survive. It's, maybe I'm justifying it, but I'm okay with it, cause I had to survive.

Speaker 5:
[26:10] I mean, I understand that part, the exchange, but the first guy, if you had done that 30 years later in your prison sentence, would you still have done it? Cause one, that guy's a sex offender. And two, you were doing it for free.

Speaker 4:
[26:22] Right, I would have, yeah, I would have. Well, I didn't do it for free. I did it so that I didn't get further with him.

Speaker 5:
[26:30] So he didn't attack you after you were sleeping? Yeah, so he was more of a scared survivor.

Speaker 4:
[26:34] Yeah, I mean, it was more of a, if I let him watch me do that shit, he never tried to knock me out and suck my dick, because we had sexual predators in the prison that did that. Gorgeous George from Connecticut is a famous sexual predator that would literally knock you out, suck your dick, because he wanted his sperm. He'd come to your cell, put a cup on the bars, and say, fill it up. And that's a fact in that prison system. Everybody that was in Connecticut knows who Gorgeous George was.

Speaker 5:
[27:03] And you've witnessed this?

Speaker 4:
[27:04] And I've witnessed that and been in jails with this dude.

Speaker 5:
[27:06] So what would happen? He'd come to your cell?

Speaker 4:
[27:08] He would come to people's cells. He's never come to my cell. I never had a problem with Gorgeous George. I had a problem with Jill Will, because I was in an environment where he could get close to me. See, when you're a little bit wild, they leave you alone. But if they're in an environment where it's just you and them, and there's a lot of isolated seg cells where it's just you and another inmate, separate cells, but in a closed environment. So, but yeah, he would come to cells right there. Everybody, everybody, and young white kids, he'd come into like Cheshire, because I was an MYI, and you'd go to Cheshire to get dentists work, or you'd go to Cheshire for, that's the big prison. You'd go to Cheshire for, like, you know, vocational. Or when they kicked you out of MYI, they'd put you in Cheshire. And he was the tierman right there, and he'd come to the thing, and he'd talk to you, and then he'd bring you, hi, I'm George, big dude, big, back then with Jerry curls. And he went home, and he came back, he's a skinny motherfucker. But he was notorious. Knock you out and suck your dick. He ended up getting stabbed by the Latin kings, finally, and after that, they calmed him down. But he was a notorious, notorious sex offender.

Speaker 5:
[28:12] Why would the inmates allow that to happen? I mean, he's one guy, can't a bunch of them team up?

Speaker 4:
[28:18] I've always wondered that myself, being that I was one of them. But the prison systems in Connecticut, in New York, it wouldn't have flown. And Connecticut, Connecticut has never had the morals of other prison systems, to be honest with you. They've always allowed sex offenders in their prison system. If you were a sex offender that had money and had drugs, you were in the highest gang. Like even at the height of the gangs in Connecticut, sex offenders, you are 100% right. Why was it allowed to happen? It was allowed to happen because nobody did anything to them. People were scared of them. Even the gangsters that act like they weren't scared of them, they were because he was walking around and knocking little white boys out and sucking their dick. Literally, that's not even like literally sucking their dick. There's guys that are still in that prison, there's people in the world in Connecticut that will say this, that he'd knock motherfuckers out and suck their dick. The kid that stabbed him, he knocked him out and sucked his dick, so the kid stabbed him. He was a gang member. The gang made him do it.

Speaker 5:
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Speaker 4:
[30:58] Okay, so that is, that has started. It start, when I went in, it was more drag queens and transvestites, like, you know, or guys that would go in that were gay and effeminate, and they would be in their little section. And it was a gay section. But if you didn't deal with it, then, you know, it wasn't a thing, but there was a gay section, people dealt with it. It was sexual predators. But again, you had to be in that section of the prison to deal with that, or put yourself in that environment. In New York, back then, when I started, most of that was in like the PC areas of real bad sex offenders and where all the freaky shit would happen. But we had drag queens that would come in. And then later on years, we started getting the ones that would come in with the titties and the makeup, and they would all come in from like Manhattan and stuff back in the day where they would rob the guys that do the Wall Street stuff. They would pay for their titty operations and stuff. Yeah, and then they would rob them, and then they would get arrested for whatever and go upstate. There was one Jessica that came up, a famous one, and they were robbing. But they would put them in regular population back then. They were with us, regular, because they were still dudes. There was no, but people, if you fucked with them, you fucked with them. Now, I mean, what the fuck? It was hard to see him go from guys that were like, guys that you knew dressing in prison clothes, to guys that were coming in, and you were like, fuck, dude, this motherfucker looks like a chick. You know what I mean? Like they started looking wilder and wilder as they went on. And I noticed in the population that more and more people became interested in it. And then laws changed and regulation changed in the prison, so they became more prevalent. And then they started getting more rights where, you know, they could pick who they lived with in a cell. And what I always found interesting about that was you and I, straight dudes, couldn't live in a cell. We couldn't pick who we wanted to live in. In Connecticut, when we had double bunks, we couldn't pick who we wanted to live with. But a transgender person or a person who was a sex offender or whatever and didn't want to be registered as that no more, decided to identify as a transgender person, they started getting special privileges. Like they could say, well, I don't want to live with this person because they're straight, but I'll live with this person because they're gay. And I'd go, yeah, but what's the fucking difference? You're given an accommodation move, and you're moving two gay dudes together. What do you think? They're not going to have sex with each other? And the guards would look at me and go, well, no. They both like the same thing. They both identify as women. Yeah, they both like dicks and both of them have dicks. What do you think they're going to be in there doing? Like, what are you, stupid? So they started getting a lot more rights. And just before I left, they were getting ready to start being able to go into female prisons. And that's a nightmare, because I don't want to do a four-hour episode about this, but my view is the ones that I were around, most of them had a lot of mental health issues, a lot of mental health issues. Most of them were sexual deviants. Whether they wanted to admit it or they didn't, they were sexual deviants. And they were manipulative. And once they got the power, like they came up with the PREA Act, the Prison Rape Elimination Act. George Bush signed it in.

Speaker 5:
[34:37] Prison Rape Elimination Act. Okay.

Speaker 4:
[34:38] Well, what that did for sex offenders and for transgender people, and I know I'm putting together and people are going to have a fit, but in prison, they are together. Because a lot of the sex offenders become transgenders when they go to prison, because it's a way out. Once they're transgender or once they identify as being gay or something, now the administration, all eyes are on them. The spotlight's on them. They're untouchable. They get any job they want. They go anywhere they want. They're, oh, don't bother her. What do you mean? You don't call them her. Like they started trying to make us use pronouns and shit. We're in prison. This is a man. I'm a man. There's no way to get a pussy. It's impossible. Like the laws of prison won't allow them in jail. You know what I mean? Like there's a psychological game that they play. And it got bad in prison. And when they let the PREA Act in, it allowed sex offenders to come out of PC. In fact, when the PREA Act came in, Connecticut got rid of its PC program. Every sex offender is now in population. There's no such thing as PC. They have more rights than a regular person does. A transgender person in prison has more rights because they'll go in and get a husband or a boyfriend or a girlfriend or whatever fucking strange lover that they got at the moment, and then they'll get caught. And the transgender person will be like, oh, they raped me. Yeah, but you had the other guy in his back and were digging his butt hole out. What do you mean they raped you? You know what I mean? But they'll get away with it. Because nobody wants to go after that. So that transgender thing I watched in prison blossom into a complete nightmare. And again, it gave the sex offenders a power that they never had before. You couldn't touch them, brother. If you did anything, you were going to go under the prison. And to tell you the truth, look, I was molested as a fucking kid, and I had to figure it the fuck out. And I was viciously molested. And I can't take that back. So when I was in prison, am I going to spend my life beating child molesters up? I've stabbed two child molesters in my bid. One was because I was in a jail, and I got the shortest straw, and I was at the bottom of the totem pole. And the kid had lured kids up with puppies. He used to sell them puppies, and they would molest the kids. And I stabbed them for that. And the other kid that I stabbed, and, you know, I'm not talking about, I stabbed this kid and sent him out on Life Star, I did what I could. And the other kid that I stabbed, I stabbed with a pencil, because that's all I had. But he raped his 18-month-old daughter. That wasn't the worst part. He cut her vagina open because he couldn't fit into her. So I think that guy deserved to get stabbed. Them were the only two child molesters that I ever stabbed. And I did it because, one, I didn't get any more time for it. And I'm not going to put my life on the line for one of them. And when I got to Connecticut and I knew that I'd get a million years, and I had to live around them, I had to figure out how to use them to my fucking advantage. But they run that state, bro. It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 5:
[37:59] So what leads up to this stabbing? Do you find out about what they did from a guard or another inmate? Or how does that happen?

Speaker 4:
[38:06] Interestingly enough, you bring that up. In the 90s in New York prison, something had happened where a bunch of sex offenders had been let into the prison system. And we didn't know, the regular inmates, because back then, everything's about paperwork. When you come to the yard, you got to have paperwork. If you got dirty paperwork, dude, you're going to PC. You're not going to be in the population. So the administration, the cops had a beef with the administration, because they were trying to... The administration was basically trying to say, nah, we're not going to separate the sex offenders anymore. We're going to let them... They wanted to push them in the population. It was a push. Because it costs money for special housing units that they could take and put in their pockets. Why not make it so that we can't touch sex offenders? So they laid a bunch of them in the prison system, in New York prison system, and they weren't playing that. So they released all their names in the paper. You can go back in time and look it up. The COs posted the names of all the sex offenders in the jail that were in the paper, in the blocks. So in New York, there's gangs, but then there's crews. Like a lot of us are in crews, but I guess they'd be a gang, but they're not. They're like little families that you're in. And everybody that was in the top got a list, hey, you gotta take care of these. And at the time, I was working my way up, and they were like, hey, it's your turn. And I was like, all right, well, what is it? And it was the kid. And I took my opportunity. And back then, you'd get like six months in SEG. You stab a guy, go to SEG, six months, you get out. You didn't get all the cases and all that. When the time came in, for me, when they started giving out 15 to life for scratching a guy, I was like, yeah, I'm good. I'm gonna have to figure out how to, you know, because it's just too much fucking time.

Speaker 5:
[39:57] How effective is a pencil to do the stabbing?

Speaker 4:
[40:03] How angry are you?

Speaker 5:
[40:04] To say you're angry.

Speaker 4:
[40:06] Very effective depends. Now think about it, if you take a pencil and you wrap a sock around it, you know, and you wrap it so that it's tight and you put a little string around it and you get it in your hand, neck areas, eye areas, you know, you're just hitting somebody as many times as you can to back them up. And you know, like, in any situation that you go into when it comes to violence, at least for me, I know I only have so long before it's over, one way or the other. Somebody's going to come, it's going to stop. I, you know, so a pencil.

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Speaker 4:
[42:12] Can be extremely effective. There's been a couple of times, the guy that I stabbed in downstate, I stabbed with a pencil. When you got nothing else, you know, people go all the time, oh, why would you stab somebody? Because I was 165 pounds and scared, and I wanted to win, or at least I wanted to survive. Again, being in prison is the ultimate survival game, because every day is a new adventure. You never know what's coming at you, dude. You never know who's coming in, ever.

Speaker 5:
[42:43] Out of 30 years, what do you think was your worst death?

Speaker 4:
[43:17] I was going to be isolated from everybody, my family, everything. Like really isolated. Like I hadn't been in decades. That was the worst day I ever had for that one. Violent wise, I can tell you this. The most violent act I ever committed personally in New York, and I've had a lot of fights. Like I've had fights where I got jumped one time in a mess hall in Auburn by Latin kings. And six of them jumped me. I mean, I fought. So you can never lose when you fight to me. No matter what, if you fight back, you can't lose, dude. If you curl up, then whatever. So I got jumped by six Latin kings. The worst one was, I got a cut on my face over here from a razor that goes up. And I was in Comstock. And at the time, I was selling drugs here and there in the prison to survive. And back then, it was just weed that I would sell. And I would get locked up for key block for various things. And when you go to Comstock, Comstock is gladiator school, at least back then. And you'd never go to the yard without a knife. And they had metal detectors. And we had ways to get through the metal detectors back then, because they weren't metal detectors. They were metal, they were blockers. And people don't understand the difference. Meaning, if we walked through some of these things and we would wrap them with black electrical tape, it wouldn't ring. It would bounce back and it wouldn't register that there was a way to stop it. So you always went through the yard with a shank on you. I bring it up for a reason. And you would ask ahead of time, because people would come back from work, and be like, hey, you're getting ready to run yard, because they run blocks and it takes like an hour. And people would be coming back from the mess hall, walking through the blocks, yelling up, and be like, yo, is the metal detector on? And they'd be like, the metal detector on, but such and such was there. So you knew the level of hiding it, you did. So I had just come off of Keyblock for 30 days. And this kid had asked me to do him a favor and bring out a bundle of dope to somebody. So I was like, fine, no problem. I came out, brought out the bundle, well, bundle of dope, gave it to him, got locked back up another 30 days. I get back out. Somebody says, the metal detector, the guy that was there, don't bring nothing out. So I didn't bring my shank that I had with me, and I should have. So I went out to the fucking yard. And as soon as I go out there, dude, you can, you know, I had just got off of 30-day Keyblock. I knew that there was going to, there's just always issues. You never know if you got abandoned there. And at that time, I had been in so many little scrimmages here and there, that you didn't know if you were going to see somebody that you would just did something to in another jail or they did to you or whatever. So it was a nightmare every time. So I went out to the yard and this kid's talking to me. I found out later that he set me up. But he's talking to me, he's facing me. And the yard is huge. It's like if you took Target parking lot and you just put a big wall around it. These New York prisons are like fucking castles inside of them. I know you've seen them driving by. Like architecturally, they're fucking beautiful. Anyways, so it's a big parking lot and I'm standing there. And out of the corner of my eye, I see it comes by and I feel the razor in my ear. I'm like, fuck. It cuts me and it takes off. And the yard is packed. There's probably about maybe 800, 900 people there playing soccer, handball, all over the place. So he takes off and runs up in front of me. And I was like, what the fuck? So I took off after him. And you know, I'm a clumsy motherfucker. I'm chasing him, but I could run. I'm athletic. And I ran. And as I'm running, I heard him throw the ox on the ground. Now, I don't know that I'm bleeding and all. When you got adrenaline and all that, you don't know what the fuck is going on. So everything to me is like coming at me real fast. So I hear the razor hit the ground and I like, look, I can't see it. I got to catch this kid. So I just kept going. I jumped on his fucking back. And when I jumped on his back, we hit the tar and we're on tar. And when I hit that tar, I started smashing his fucking head. He had long hair and my hair was just starting to get long. And I started grabbing his fucking head and smashing it into the pavement. I smashed his head into the pavement as many times as I fucking could. He's punching me. You know, motherfuckers are tough, dude, especially when you're fighting. Now, you got to know in prison and especially in Comstock, you'll hear them come out. They got the AR-15s and you'll hear them because they got the microphones there and they'll chamber around. Clink, clink. You know when you hear that, you better stop because they'll shoot. They're not playing. So the kids, he there and he fucking, he's got my face. So I grabbed him, and I reached down and I bit into his fucking cheek as hard as I could. He was fucking pushed. And man, when I pulled away, what the fuck? I had like a whole piece of his fucking cheek that I had ripped off. He's screaming. So I said this, the cops are coming. There's a slap sink over there. I got a piece of fucking this kid's cheek in my mouth. I chewed it up and spit it on him, told him I gave it to his fucking mother. I went over there, washed my face in the slap sink. I'm all covered in blood. I don't know if it's my blood, the kid's blood. The cops come over, jump on me, drag me off to fucking hospital. He's in the other room. I'm in this one. Now he caught me, but I never said a word. I never told on him. That's why he gets out of trouble. So they come in, and they're like, what the fuck is wrong with you, Moore? Why would you bite somebody? I said, because I got caught, and I didn't know who attacked me, so I just attacked whoever. You just attacked somebody and did that? I was like, yeah, I got caught. I didn't know. I panicked. What the fuck am I supposed to do? Like, what are you supposed to do? I got no weapons on me. The guy cut me, so I bit his fucking face. I bit a huge chunk out of it. I went to SEG for 18 months. He went on his way. I never saw him again. But that's one of the things that I did. I didn't like to do stuff. I tried to refrain a lot, because I got real crazy. I got too crazy. I had to learn how to back it off. Like, I was stupid. I'll give you a good one. I'm in Auburn, and there's a CO when I'm locked up, and he'd come in every day. My wife loves this story. And again, I did not win all my fights. I've lost plenty of fights. I've had probably 150 fights in prison altogether. I would say I've lost a good 40, maybe more. I've won more than I've lost. But again, fighting for me is I'm not pretty. It's kind of like two bodies throwing them at each other and seeing which one comes out on top. I'll do anything, bite you, scratch you, pull, whatever. It doesn't make a difference. I want to win. So this cop used to come in all the time, little military cock, these little motherfucker come in, talk and shit. You motherfuckers are punks in this block. I'll beat every one of you. You guys think you're gays. You know how CEOs are, especially the ones that like to talk shit. They was always inviting dudes to fight. So he comes by myself one day and he's like, what about you? You got a big fucking mouth. You want to fight? So I said, yeah, I'll fight. Why not? You're not going to fight me, but I'll fight. He said, I'll beat you up. He said, if I let you out, he said, I'll kick your ass. You have no idea. You ain't coming out anyways. You're a bitch. Okay. Crack my fucking door and see if I'm a bitch. You're the first cop that I fight. I got a memory in the back of my mind. I also have to make myself be. I have to tell myself every day, yo, you can't back down. If somebody says something to you, you got to give it to him because if you don't, somebody's going to fuck you or somebody's going to take something from you, or somebody's not going to let you have something that you need, basic human needs. So that cop talked shit to me and he got me. And I was like, I'll fight. So he went to the end of the tier, did his count, I was sitting in my cell, I was sitting down, my door goes, clink, clink. I said, oh shit, I put my little fucking skippies on. I went and looked out the tier and he's like, what's up? I walked under the tier and dudes are like, ooh, what are you getting ready to do? Man, I was so scared, I went around the corner. And these jails are old, bars, metal, brick. And then he was in the back between the cell, so it would be not the gallery, it would be the chaseway. We walked into the chaseway and the COs used to have like little offices between the chaseways. So I walked in and he was like, come on. And we walked in that chaseway. And I'm going to tell you, I took one swing. And the next thing I know, this motherfucker put me in so many different holes and slapping me around. I didn't know this was like a military dude, bro. He does like, he did like military shit. This is back in the 90s in Auburn, you know, they got all the National Guard motherfuckers, the National Guards, and they were in the military, then they get out, and then they're COs, and they go, them dudes are tough motherfuckers. Some of them are decent. This dude whooped my ass, and I fought him, but he whooped my ass. So I went back to myself, beat up, and he talked shit to me too. I whooped his ass, I whooped his ass, but dudes were like, yo Jay, you really went and fought him. I was like, yeah, I was fucked up. Black eye, puffed up. I didn't say nothing, I stayed in my cell. So he went out on, I don't know, the CEOs back then used to do different times, like five and threes, they'd be off three days, however their tour was. So he came back like a week later, I want to say. I was healing up or whatever. So I hear him coming in, whistling. Who wants to fight me today? I kicked the last motherfucker's ass. So he comes in front of myself. Skinny white boy decides to come out and fight me, but all you tough gangsters weren't. Talking shit comes by, he goes, you want to fight again? So I said, yeah, I'll fight again. Goes to the end of the tier, he cracks my door and everybody's like, hey, Jay, don't go get beat up again, man. Come on. I went to the end of the tier. I went around the corner, I went to go into the thing to fight him. And he was sitting there with his feet up on the desk. He was like, I'm not going to fight you, man. He said, out of all these gangsters that were in this fucking block, he said, you're the only one that came down here. He said, I knew I was going to whip your ass. He said, you knew you were going to lose, right? I said, no, I thought I was going to win. I didn't know you could fight. He was like a military dude, but from that day forward, there wasn't anything. Like if I was in a block somewhere and I needed help, when he became higher up like brass and all that, I kind of lost my... But when he was a cop in that jail, anytime I asked him, and I never asked anything on the line, but if I had issues, he'd bring rookies to me. He'd be like, you see this dude?

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Speaker 4:
[55:18] Dude, this dude's the only motherfucker that would fight me. And I'll tell you, I did that a couple times. And sometimes I did it because between me and you and all of your followers now, I did it because I knew that if I took that ass-whipping, that one ass-whipping in front of everybody else, it was going to be enough that I wouldn't have to take another one. And maybe, just maybe, I'd win. Because there's always that 50-50 chance that I'm going to get that one hit off, and there it is, you know what I mean? So, I would always fight win or lose. And it helped me. And it also hindered me because sometimes, sometimes I do too much and put myself in situations that I... They've made me who I am now, but they've deeply affected. You know what I mean? They affect who I am.

Speaker 5:
[56:18] Would you ever fight for someone else, or did you always?

Speaker 4:
[56:21] Yeah, I've fought for other people. Like I said, I'll tell you this. So, I came in at the end of the old school hardcore prisons. My stories don't come from these new... We're in 2026, man. I went to jail in 1989. That's a long time ago. Doesn't seem like it is, but the way the world has progressed, that's a real long time ago. And when I came in, it was hardcore. These guys, you know, the older white guys, they would take advantage of the younger white guys. And the black guys would take advantage of the white guys. And everybody would take advantage of the weak. And as I rose, I didn't take advantage of the weak unless the weak needed to be taken advantage of. There's people that are weak that deserve to be there. I'm a, I'll torture a child, molestered dude. I've mentally tortured him. I mean, I've, I've, I've, I've tortured him, tortured him in ways that other people haven't. And I've enjoyed it. I've had him in a cell, and I've questioned him for hours and hours. Why would you do that, you know? And I would do it because I knew how much it would bother them, and I would knew they couldn't do nothing to me, because if they so much had moved, I'd fucking crack their face. That's how I got my revenge. It might be sick, but it also taught me something. It taught me who I was dealing with, that they can't be fixed. After being in prison with real sexual predators, sexual predators can't be fixed, never. They do it once, they do it twice. They're never going to stop. Castration doesn't stop them. They just think freaky then. Look at all these child pornographers. I don't know about the feds, but I can't tell you how many dudes got out of prison. Next thing you know, they'll come back as child pornographers. But I never took advantage. I tried not to take advantage of the guys that I felt had come to prison, and they weren't weirdos. They were just trying to get home. You know what I mean? I wouldn't do that to somebody, but that is definitely... See, but that's a lie too, because I did sell a kid to a guy in prison.

Speaker 5:
[58:40] What do you mean you sold a kid? What does that even mean?

Speaker 4:
[58:44] All right. So in New York, you'll get these guys who get these checks from Vietnam, disability checks, and they would still get it back then. And some of them are pretty freaky. And there is a big commodity back in the day for guys that would want other guys to be their little servants. And sometimes I might be friendly with people, because I would befriend everybody. See, I was on the bottom, but trying to work my way to the top. So in order to do that, you got to network. So I might know the little sniffily white guy that might have the suspected case, or might just be a little just looking for protection. Maybe he's gay, maybe, you know, whatever, maybe he wants to be gay. And he'd be like, hey, you know, and I was like, well, I might know somebody. So I knew this kid, and he was always looking for long-term relationships with little young white boys. And then one came into Auburn. And he was looking for a daddy, plain and simple. He wasn't looking to be a gangster, he's looking for a daddy. And this dude liked him. So I made the introduction and he paid me $1,500 and they had a great relationship. And he took care of him for his the whole time they were together. They used to beat each other up and beat each other off, for all I know. But they were buddies. I made the introduction and I got paid, let's say $1,500 for it.

Speaker 5:
[60:06] How does the money get to you?

Speaker 4:
[60:08] Back then, it would come to you from outside. They'd send you a money order, visits, cash, a lot of cash in prison, commissary. When I met my wife, because I used to always hustle, I'd sold drugs, I'd do anything that I could to make money. Like I said, dude, I used to jerk off for a Jew for fucking commissary. You know what I mean? I know it's a terrible thing. And I'm not saying that in a disrespectful way. I don't know if you got a... We talk the way we talk in prison. And I think a lot of times when we're out here, people expect people to edit what they say. Well, editing what they say is different, changes who I am. I don't mean no harm. I don't hate anybody. Even after being in prison and being oppressed by different races of people because of the color of my skin, I don't dislike them. I might have some bigotry. We are. We're Americans. We're all bigots. But I don't hate them. You know what I mean? So if I say something in a crude manner, I don't hate you. I'm just, it is what it is, you know? Like with the whole, again, back to the transgender movement, coming in, claiming to have vaginas and stuff. I had one in Connecticut that was next door, fluffy. And this mother fucker was so manipulated with captains and shit like that, that at the end of my bid, I was a tierman and I used to paint murals and whatever. And I worked for this one captain in the prison and he gave me the keys to the prison. But at the same time, you know, I had to keep motherfuckers in check in the block. And I had to look after people when he told me to look after it. And like I told you before, I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks. I survived 32 years of prison and I made it through. You know, I did what I needed to do whenever I needed to do it and fuck what anybody thinks. But I had this transgenderer claiming to be fluffy, had breasts and used to have a wicked 5 o'clock shadow, though. Used to have to shave that thing like five times a day. And, but, sex offender, you know, single cell, but a problem. Every time they dealt with anybody, claimed that it got raped or anything. It was just a big problem for the captain. So the captain put it in a block with me. And he was like, listen, when they're there, just make sure that there's no problems. They don't fuck with nobody. If there's any issues, you know, if you can, if you can shut it down, if not, you know, life happens, but do the best you can. Come see me in the morning, I'll take care of it. So I became like a babysitter. So one day I used to make candy. I got in trouble for this. I got me in trouble, but I got like chastised. And I don't even know why it wasn't that big of a deal. I used to make candy. In prison, when you make candy in Connecticut, you get like the Jolly Ranchers from Commissary, and you get some Kool-Aid, you melt it down, and you make it, and you form it. And I used to sell it constantly. So Fluffy was always like, you need to make me a cock-shaped lollipop. So one day I made him a motherfucking cock-shaped lollipop. Shaped it, because you know I do art, so I can do all that. So I shaped it just like a cock, with balls and all that, put a thing and gave it to him. And the motherfucker was over there doing some weird shit with it, and had flushed it down the toilet. That's how we got caught, got stuck in it, because it's hard jolly, man. What's that shit, it hardens, it's like a rock. So it wouldn't flush down the toilet, I guess, or whatever. So the captain came to me the next morning, and he shows me a picture of this lollipop that's shaped like a cock. And he's like, did you make this? And I was like, yeah, I made that. Oh, what the fuck, man, don't do shit like that, because the problem is this. Here's the other issue. Motherfuckers don't have sense of humor about shit. You know what I mean? Like sometimes shit is funny, dude. Like I had a, being in Connecticut, I had this kid, and being a Tierman, there's a lot of people that are locked in their cells all day long, so you'll sit in front of somebody's cell like we are now and have a conversation. It gets boring in there, dude. There's not a lot to do. You can only watch so much fucking regular TV and play so much Game Boy, you know, phone calls or whatever. So I'd sit in front of people's cells that I talked to, and so there was this one kid. I won't say his name, but I didn't know that a Tierman Shelley that I had was fucking around with this kid. I found out about it afterwards because he was a gang member that lived with me, and they're not supposed to do that. But he had this little white kid that he was doing his thing in the shower with. So long story short, I'm sitting in front of this kid's cell one day, and I'm like, dude, what happened? Why did you do this? What made you and my Shelley do this shit? So he goes, well, it was the Patriots Super Bowl with Atlanta. You remember that one where the Super Bowl, the Patriots were-

Speaker 5:
[65:17] They were down and they ended up winning.

Speaker 4:
[65:19] Well, my Shelley, I used to gamble a lot. I was a big gambler. I used to always have pools. And my family would gamble and a lot of money. So he made a bet with this kid. This kid wanted a pair of clippers. And my Shelley took New England, and the kid took Atlanta. And whoever won, if the kid won, he would get the clippers. And if he lost, my Shelley would get the butt. And my Shelley took New England. So the kid at half time was all excited that he was gonna get a pair of clippers. And by the end of the day, and the whole point of it was, not only did my Shelley go and fuck the kid, but he didn't even give him the clippers. Like afterwards, the kid asked me, he was like, yo, Jay, did you leave clippers for me or whatever? I was like, no, why? Well, because I lost a bet. And he said that if, you know, he'd still give me the clippers. But these are the type of people that we're dealing with, and you don't even know from one day to the next. Like me and you could be sitting in this room, and you know this, because you've been in the prison system, and you never, listen, I'm going to tell you the truth. If I would have been in your shoes, I would have navigated it just like you are a master at that. You know you did good, right?

Speaker 5:
[66:39] Well, I didn't know at the time that, but now that you're out though, no, I didn't know.

Speaker 4:
[66:43] Listen, brother, honestly, I'm sitting here acting like I knew at the time. I know now that I did well. You did well. You used your resources to make it through. Yeah. So that's, I go all over the place.

Speaker 5:
[67:03] No, you're doing great. I'm curious about 30-something years of prison, jailhouse meals. What was the best one you think you ever had?

Speaker 4:
[67:14] That I made or that I get from the common. In New York, what was cool was we would get real food from the street, so I could eat really healthy. That's why I was into the power lifting so much. That's why I was able to squat a thousand pounds, was because I could eat good. And I would eat real rices, and we had gardens up there. And it was decent. You could live a good life, so I ate really good in New York. Spaghetti and meatballs was always good.

Speaker 5:
[67:43] But what about an actual jailhouse meal?

Speaker 4:
[67:46] That's why it's hard for me, because I know you're used to the ones with the crackhead soups and all that.

Speaker 5:
[67:52] So they wouldn't get creative at all?

Speaker 4:
[67:55] In New York, it was real food. So we would go out to the courtyard, and like if I wanted to go have egg rolls, they would make egg rolls out of whatever we had with the prison combined with real food. So in New York, we would get 35 pounds of food a month, and we would also go to commissary, and they would sell certain raw food items. Because in the cells and in certain blocks in New York prisons, we're allowed to cook real food, like real street food.

Speaker 5:
[68:21] You guys had a grill, right?

Speaker 4:
[68:22] We had a grill out, we got wood stoves outside, but in the blocks, we got the hot plates, we got all the stoves, and so it was really loose with the food that we got. So I would get, that's why my palate, when it comes to food, is all over the place. Like, you know, of course, you have to be creative, not everything. You have to figure out how to make egg rolls without all the stuff. So you'd go outside and I'd go to the Chinese guys and they'd make me egg rolls. I'd go to the Jamaicans and I'd get real oxtail. And in Connecticut was different because everything was Keefee.

Speaker 5:
[68:57] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[68:58] Everything was, so I had to figure out. Yeah. I had to figure out how to cook food there. So my favorite meal in Connecticut prison would have been chili and rice. And it was the simplest meal in the world. You take some rice, you smash up, you know what the ramen noodle or crackhead soups are. You smash it up real fine. You mix them with the rice, and you put them in a bag. Now, in Connecticut, we had hotpots if you were an old timer. And then later on, they brought hotpots. You know what a hotpot is, the boil, the water, the little clear hotpot. Did you have them in the Feds, the little clear ones?

Speaker 5:
[69:33] We didn't have it, but someone actually gave me a gift of it. We always had 190.

Speaker 4:
[69:37] Okay. Out on the tier or in your cell?

Speaker 5:
[69:40] Out on the tier. And we had microwaves, too.

Speaker 4:
[69:43] Oh, because you were in more of an open dorm thing. See, I was in cells, so when you're in cells like the Max's, they don't give you like a plastic hot pot.

Speaker 5:
[69:49] No, they didn't give that even in the lockdown, like in the detention centers.

Speaker 4:
[69:52] Oh, yeah, because people get water thrown on them.

Speaker 5:
[69:54] Yeah, if you're locked down, you're lucky to just get 190, like when they opened up for showers during the lockdown.

Speaker 4:
[70:01] That's like in Northern and stuff like that. But when you're in POP and like the Max's in the States, not like in Connecticut, they broke your balls a lot, but they finally brought back clear hot pots. But for the most part, we get the foot pan. You know, the foot pan and we get our whatever. And you make a stinger out of an extension cord and some fucking toenail clippers, and you wrap them together, and you put some salt in the water, you drop the thing in there, then you take a bag and you put it between the water and whatever food. Then you'll take your food, you put it in a plastic bag. And you take like rice, you take soups, and I used to chop up like pepperoni or whatever good meat we had. If we had like good mess hall stuff at the time, like when we were locked down around the weekends and we'd feed this in the cell, we'd get like chicken. You get the good hamburger and shit. You throw that in your rice, you chop up your pepperoni, you get like the chili and beans, you put it in there, and you cook it for hours. We'd cook like, but mine was the chili and beans was my favorite. Or you'd get like the big logs where you crush up the Doritos and you'll make like a-

Speaker 5:
[71:08] Oh, like a Mofongo.

Speaker 4:
[71:09] Something like that, with everything stuffed inside. You know what I mean? They'll cook it for hours, dude. And we, you know, actually in prison, surprisingly enough, birthdays are a big thing in prison. Holidays are a big thing amongst your crew. Everybody always buys commissary and gets it together. Connecticut, again, it's all processed, really bad, keefe food, and you gotta be inventive with what you cook. You just gotta. I have had to learn how to re-cook since I've come out, because, you know, like I want to cook like I'm still in prison, and that's not healthy. Like, now I'm on some shit, well, I won't eat anything that isn't organic or normal because I've been eating shit for so long. Yeah. But man, eating, I didn't eat in the mess hall for years. I used to make candy, like I said, in Connecticut prison, and I used to paint. And I mean, I paint. I got stuff on my stuff that I showed you. I do...

Speaker 5:
[72:07] Do you have it on your social media?

Speaker 4:
[72:08] I do, and I'm going to be posting more after this. I'm going to upload a bunch of stuff. And everything that I do, you can order, you can buy, whatever you want. I can do anything.

Speaker 5:
[72:16] I'm going to order stuff for this video.

Speaker 4:
[72:18] I showed you the Lego thing. We'll show the...

Speaker 5:
[72:20] And we'll have the link to your stuff in the description.

Speaker 4:
[72:24] That'd be awesome, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[72:24] In this episode. And John's also actively posting videos and stories.

Speaker 4:
[72:30] Yeah, I'm starting to my own stuff.

Speaker 5:
[72:32] Make sure you guys subscribe and check it out, too.

Speaker 4:
[72:35] I appreciate that. But yeah, so I would... Also, in the candy was my main... At the end of my bid, it was painting murals on the wall for the administration, because that opened my door anywhere. When a CEO found out that I could come in and I could paint a football helmet, their favorite team, the Jets, the Giants, whoever, Patriots. And I'd paint a simple little square with the football helmet on it. And then I got this black background, I'd do a nice little splash, and I'd make it look real good. That CEO would give me whatever the fuck I wanted to do. He'd be my best friend. And then the next CEO would be like, hey, can you come to the block and paint me one? And then the captain's like, hey, could you come down to my thing and do this? I did a mural where I was telling your boy there, Matty, it was when Fortnite had first come out. And I had CEOs in Osborne, because I was in Osborne, there were big Fortnite people. And I got pictures, I don't know if I brought them down, but I do, I can, of the mural that we did. It was a Fortnite mural. It was when the gingerbread girl was in it, and Thanos, and big, huge murals on the wall. That opens doors. Especially when you're an old climber, and you got a skill. And then I started selling candy in the block, and candy would make me so much money that I never ate mess hall food. I did 10 years in one jail where I never went to the mess hall. I just ate what was ever on commissary, and that was it. So cooking, I cook all kinds of different things. But then I'll also just sit there and eat a dry crackhead soup.

Speaker 5:
[74:14] I'll do that from time to time. I put a little mayo or hot sauce.

Speaker 4:
[74:17] Oh, do you ever take it and just crack over the thing, and put the salt packet in it, shake it up like some chips?

Speaker 5:
[74:22] I never made it in the actual thing, but people would actually... I found out that if people would just cook it with normal water, it doesn't even have to be hot water.

Speaker 4:
[74:29] Right, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[74:29] You just let it sit in there, and I didn't realize that was a thing.

Speaker 4:
[74:32] Yeah, you can do that. You know what's really cool for cooking? Here's something that you might like. Years ago, when I first started my bid, New York prison is so unique with the things that they do. Because we used to smoke and we used to have matches and lighters. We used to sell it on commissary. People used to cook in the cell with hot plates and they'd cook outside. The cops always were smelling. The place was always smoky. We used to shave down the metal in our lockers, and we would make these, like, round, hard, paper-like donuts. And you'd light them on fire, and you'd make grilled cheese and fried bologna sandwiches on these old metal locker. You know, I see them on, like, YouTube and Facebook. People are doing it in other states now. Back in the day, we used to do that right on the bed. Like, when we were in Seg, guys would make apple pies, and everybody would save up their apples during the week, and then you'd save your bread up, and you'd save your little teeny sugar packets, and you'd have some genius down the fucking way that would shave his whole bed down, all the metal off of it, have a couple little fireballs under there, and be frying up little apple fritters all night long for everybody in your thing. So we'd save our food up, and sometimes in Seg and we'd do that, we'd spice it up, because in Seg, like most guys are up all night, sleep all day, and they save their food because you get hungry at night. That weight from fucking, what is it? I don't know what time you guys eat, but in New York, sometimes we eat at four o'clock in the afternoon.

Speaker 5:
[76:06] It's early, yeah. Dinner was like, whatever the four o'clock counts, done. So it would be like 14, 14, 13.

Speaker 4:
[76:11] And usually dinner's not as good as lunch is. Like you go to dinner sometimes, it's some real shit.

Speaker 5:
[76:16] Yeah. That's a long way from lunch is the best.

Speaker 4:
[76:19] Lunch is the fucking best.

Speaker 5:
[76:20] Except on the weekends, lunch was kind of hit because they would do like brunch. I hated brunch because it was really.

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Speaker 6:
[76:56] There's no one like you, and there never will be.

Speaker 10:
[76:58] From the producer of Bohemian Rhapsody, there are many legends, but there is only one. Michael, rated PG-13 in theaters April 24.

Speaker 11:
[77:11] Kraft mac and cheese is better than 90s hip hop. We'll remind you of your childhood without making you feel incredibly old. Kraft mac and cheese, best thing ever.

Speaker 5:
[77:25] It's gimp, and the eggs are gross. But weekend food in general, always bad.

Speaker 4:
[77:30] See, I never liked to go to the mess hall. I got a good story for you here. You're gonna like this. I'm glad you brought this up. I told this on mine. It didn't, it popped. Maybe it'll pop for you. So in Clinton-Denimoro, you have to go to the mess hall in the morning time, mandatory mess hall. Just not Clinton, Attica, certain jails. You have to go to mess hall. Doesn't make a difference in the morning. It's like a count. They want you up out of your bed. Cause some people don't have jobs. They'll just sit in their fucking cell all day long and sleep. They want you up. Cause they want, back in the day, you were quite Belzees. They want you to go to sleep late, early at night. So when you get up in the morning and you come out of your cell, you march to the mess hall. However you come out of your cell, that's how you go to the mess hall. So it could be whoever you live next to is usually who you're in line with. And then you get into the mess hall and whatever line that is, you just get behind it and you follow it. And then you sit into a long line. Usually you sit around the same people because you're all lined up the same. So we would go in the mess hall and I'd have this old black guy in front of me. We'd go in the mess hall and there'd be a young kid in front of him every fucking day. Well, for like a week, he'd come in and this kid would come in with all that. Yo man, you know what I'm saying, man? All these people, yo, you're gonna eat that toast, old man? You're gonna teach that toast pop? And he wouldn't say nothing. He'd be just down because when I went to prison, there was a respect level. You didn't talk over people's food. There were certain conversations at the table you didn't have. You were knocked when you got up, which was a concept of just respect, you know, for whatever reason. Like, I'm leaving, guys. Have a good one. You know what I mean? Whatever. But these young kids would come in, and they wouldn't have that. And it was a big clash between the old timers and the young kids. So this kid just kept talking shit to this old timer. So he told him, he said, yo, boy, let me tell you something. Shut the fuck up when you come in here. Do not talk to me again. Your breasts stink, your face. Don't talk to me, I'm telling you. If you say another fucking word to me in the morning, we're going to have a problem. So the young boy like, yeah, whatever, pop, you know, whatever. Old man didn't say nothing. We went back to the cells, went to the child at lunch. Next morning, we crack out, go into the mess hall. And back then, dude, I was also looking for food. It was extra because I was hungry as a motherfucker. So if somebody, I wasn't really paying attention to people around me. But I knew the old man next to me, he was one of them ones you didn't fuck with. And I'm watching, because I knew he told that young boy, if you do it again, boy, I'm gonna get you. This kid comes walking in, and you know, kids are fucking stupid. Motherfuckers will put themselves in a situation because they don't think it'll happen to them, and they should know, don't fuck with people when they tell you something. So this kid put himself in the line, he lines himself up, and he sits right in front of the old man. I'm sitting here, and I went. He sits down, he's like, what up, old man? What the fuck I tell you? What you gonna do? You gonna eat them eggs? And he reached over and grabbed that egg. And before that boy could put that egg in that mouth, that old man stabbed that kid in his face, because we got metal forks in the prison. Dude, he hit this kid so many times in the face with that fork. What I fucking tell you about running your mouth? That was breakfast in fucking Clinton. Like, that would be just a random event that would happen. Shut the fuck up. Why put yourself in a situation where old man told you? And I felt bad for the old man because he was doing his thing. He didn't bother nobody. He had a TV. You know what I mean? He was going to church. He wasn't an old man that was a gangster. He just wanted to have peace when he ate his fucking breakfast. And this young punk would come in, you know, motherfuckers don't brush their teeth, all rusty in the face. You know, like, what the fuck, dude? Running their mouth because they're in a gang and they think that they're fucking tough. And this old man just, man, he lit his face up.

Speaker 5:
[81:32] You know what's interesting, too, and I never even thought about this because he brought it up, is that, you know, bad breath. There's no gum. There's no...

Speaker 4:
[81:40] Halitosis is a motherfucker.

Speaker 5:
[81:42] Yeah, there's just... And they don't even sell... I don't remember. I don't think we had mouthwash.

Speaker 4:
[81:47] No, some jails do. It depends. They don't have mouthwash with any alcohol in it. So you'll get this watered down generic shit that really kind of just... Bad breath is a motherfucker. And if you drink coffee, and back then, if you smoked cigarettes, and then you got these motherfuckers... Like, shower and basic hygiene that you wouldn't think is a thing, because you hear these dudes out here, they're all ballers. They don't shower. They stink. They don't brush their teeth. I'm in Clinton, Denimora. No, I don't like to speak ill of the dead. Before I say this, I want everybody to know, I am a Wu-Tang fan, okay? I loved ODB. But when ODB came to Clinton, Denimora, they had him in lower age. So he wasn't in general population. He was segregated, but we would see him on visits. We would see him in the mess, not in the mess hall, we would see him in medical. He was probably the dirtiest, famous person I've ever seen in my life. He wouldn't shower. He wouldn't brush his teeth. Like, at all. This is supposed to be a famous person. He was nasty. Nasty. People are disgusted. They don't shower. Boy, you'd have dudes that wouldn't shower, and you'd walk by their cell, and you'd be like, oh, oh my God. And you'd wonder why don't other inmates say stuff? Because you hear a lot of guys out here, and they talk a lot of shit about how, you know, we ran a jail, and I don't know how it is in that state. But there's certain areas, I guess, kind of like when you're in the hood. New York is kind of like the hood. There's certain blocks that are owned, and then there's certain blocks that aren't. And that's what I ran into. A lot of people just didn't care.

Speaker 5:
[83:36] Yeah. There was this one guy, this Native American guy that I got stuck in transit with. He just like, he happened to be on the plane, and then at Chicago, and then at Oklahoma. And he, long hair, like all the way down to like his knees, fingernails, this is the crazy part, were probably like this long, and starting to curve, and didn't shower. And no one wanted to be in the cell with him.

Speaker 4:
[84:00] But you know why he did that. You know why he did that.

Speaker 5:
[84:03] So what, to buck the system?

Speaker 4:
[84:04] Absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[84:05] But he's a guy you wouldn't mess with, because you don't know, no one will mess with him.

Speaker 4:
[84:09] Because everybody has an angle. And that's the thing that I learned in prison. Even street gangsters, like I know real street gangsters in the New York prison system, that I was actually with. People that have multiple bodies, people that ran drug cartel stuff, people that were involved with some of the real famous, like Fat Cat. You know, I was, Incomstock was supreme. I've had conversations with him. RoboJust. You know, I've had conversations with people that have worked for Boy George, which is somebody that if you were a New York, you know, kingpin drug person, you would know people from, like, what is that? Sex Money Murder.

Speaker 5:
[84:50] Yes, I just had someone on that was on Sex Money Murder.

Speaker 4:
[84:52] Well, here's an interesting thing. I know Mandu. I know his real name. He was in part of a bunch of stuff that I knew. So I know people like this, you know. Fuck, dude. What? I'm sorry. What did we do?

Speaker 5:
[85:07] No, we were talking about people that don't take care of themselves and how they're working an angle.

Speaker 4:
[85:11] Yeah, they're all working an angle. Everybody has an angle. When you come to jail, you're not necessarily tough. Just because you shoot somebody in the street doesn't mean you're tough. And just because you're black and you go to jail doesn't mean you're tough. But you do get a pass if you're black and you go to jail because 90% of the time, they know other people that are in jail, back then at least. And they automatically would get a pass where they wouldn't have to fight, where I would have to fight because there was nobody there that could back me up. But at some point, their true colors will get pulled. So everybody has a scam. Like I knew a guy that wouldn't talk, but he would do annoying things because he didn't want anybody around. You know what I mean? Because he didn't want to sell it. I knew a guy that, like you just said, the Indian guy with the long hair and the long nails that wouldn't shower, wouldn't clean, couldn't get along with anybody. Because at that point, he knew that the best way to do his bid was to keep everybody away from him. You know, the safest way. Or he was just an antisocial, crazy fuck because you got to remember in the prison system, they have also, when they shut down the mental institutions, they put all them crazies in the prisons. They don't go to, you know, they go to prison now. So you're there. I had a guy that would walk up to you, bro, and be like, you got a cigarette? Cigarette, cigarette, and he'd go like this. And if you went, no, he'd swing on you. Now, if you're in population and you got a job and you're getting visits and you're getting packages and you're getting whatever you're getting, and you get punched in the face behind some guy that's crazy because you didn't give him a cigarette, is that right? You know what I mean? Like that's a, what do you do? This guy just puts you in. So they put a lot of crazies in prison that fucked up the prison system. And then they put a lot of guys in prison that weren't criminals, that weren't real criminals. And you have to learn that in prison. There's criminals that are real criminals. They go ahead and they do things to hurt people and to do things for their own gain. And that's all that there is. And then there's the guy that gets up on a Sunday morning and he catches his wife giving the neighbor a blow job and he shoots her in the head. And he's never committed a crime before in his life. And he goes to jail. And he's your celly. And you're over there sniffing lines of cocaine. And you wonder why he's telling the cop. And you're calling him a snitch because he's not a criminal. He never committed a crime before, but he's there with you. And you expect him to know what he's supposed to. You see what I'm saying?

Speaker 5:
[87:53] But those are the guys you have to watch out for because you know that the devil you know is the other guys. That are just the straight criminals.

Speaker 4:
[88:00] Absolutely.

Speaker 5:
[88:00] It's the ones that can spark out an instance.

Speaker 4:
[88:02] Yeah. It's a navigation field of once you know who's who, that you got to decide, okay, how am I going to navigate these waters? And if you do a bid like I do and you go in at 16 years old and you get out when you're 47, I don't know if you're interested in this, but just think about this. Ready? Just think about what I'm about ready to say. I did this to my wife one day and she said, so I saw 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 20. Do I got to keep going? Do you get my point? All them birthdays. Sometimes in seg with nothing but my nakedness. And holes in the ceiling. You did seg time, right?

Speaker 5:
[89:07] Six months, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[89:08] You ever count the holes in the ceiling?

Speaker 5:
[89:09] I didn't even realize there was holes.

Speaker 4:
[89:11] Oh, then maybe there wasn't.

Speaker 5:
[89:12] What I would do, I would count the strips, or in the cement, there would be the lines.

Speaker 4:
[89:18] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[89:20] You'd run your finger, or you'd take a pencil and you'd write.

Speaker 4:
[89:23] Did you have a window? Did you have a window in your cell?

Speaker 5:
[89:25] There was one cell, I think, that had the little, tiny slack.

Speaker 4:
[89:29] Yeah.

Speaker 5:
[89:30] But other shoes, no. But I'll tell you what, at Danbury, which is down the road, so it's the three tiers, yeah, that like Alcatraz, like with the bars.

Speaker 4:
[89:40] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:
[89:41] And it's a thin tier, like there's staff. You look out, and it was all windows to where the females went to commissary. Oh, that's cool. So you could kind of see them going to commissary a little bit. So that was cool. And then you had one where we'd go outside to the cages, like the racket and stuff. But that was it. Yeah, all the other shoes are secured in the windows.

Speaker 4:
[90:03] Well, I had different ones. I had ones where the newer ones are different than the older ones. And the older ones, like I had Attica, they got the ones where you go out to the yard and you just can see the sky. It's just four brick walls around you. They got also the cages where you go out and it's cages and they're individual cages. But it looks like a dog kennel. You know how it looks. And then you got, it all depends on which segs that you go in. But I was telling people like, the conversations that you'll have in there are the things that you'll see. Like talking to, communicating somebody through a little teeny door. You'll go weeks without talking to anybody. You can't hear anybody. And the cell echos, cause there's nothing in there. You're trying to, you're begging for a counselor. Hey man, can I just get nothing? You can't get a disbursement form, a grievance form, a book. A book, dude. Like, you ever get booger books? When you get a book, you think you're gonna read it, and as you're going through the pages, you're like, what the fuck? It's stuck together. And there's somebody's booger in there. You're like, come on, man.

Speaker 5:
[91:10] But the worst is when people would rip out pages.

Speaker 2:
[91:12] That's a good part.

Speaker 5:
[91:13] Well, the sex pages.

Speaker 4:
[91:14] You know what the funny thing about that is? Here's the craziest thing. So I get out of SAG after doing years. I'm walking in the yard, and some guy's hustles in the yard. You know, prison is almost like if we lost all of everything in the world and had to survive, everybody has a hustle. Some guys sell pornography, just porn. And so they'll sell short-ight novels, and some guys will get desperate, and they'll rip all the porn parts out of like seg books. So you'll get like a, I think it was Louis Lamour back in the day used to have the best sex scenes. You'd read the cowboy ones. But you'd get into it, and all of a sudden, like the rest of the pages will be gone. Then you'd go to another jail, and you'd buy like a short-ight book. And as you're looking through it, there'd be like 10 pages from the book that the guy stole from seg, and he'd be like, this cocksucker's stealing fucking, you know, porn sections and selling them in another one. I used to hate that. Because I used to read, bro. I read, when I first went to prison, brother, there was no TVs. No TVs, no radios in the cell, none of that. It was books. You had to learn. You had to do hobby work, or you had to just sit there and stare at the fucking wall and whistle. I told my wife in MYI, I'll give you another quick one, MYI. This is not one of the ones that I would personally be like, man, I want to tell everybody, but I couldn't now. So, when you went to MYI in Connecticut, MYI was a maximum security for the worst juvenile delinquents in Connecticut, and all gang bangers. All out of Harford, New Haven, Bridgeport. This is back in the day. I don't know how far back you can go with the history of Connecticut, but this is when the Nation, the Brotherhood, 20 Love, have you ever heard of any of these gangs?

Speaker 5:
[93:03] Yeah, I've heard people talk about them.

Speaker 4:
[93:05] Okay, well these gangs ran Connecticut prison. They wouldn't be able to do as much time as 21. When you got 21, you were supposed to be sent to the bigger prison. But they wouldn't do that because the youth was so wild, they would keep some of the tougher inmates, the ones that were higher-ranking gang members, they would keep them till they were older. They'd be 25 or 26, and they'd still be there. And they had been working out with these universal weight systems since they were like 15, and they looked like little pit bulls, all little cock-diesel angry motherfuckers. And they ran everything in the MYI system, and they were all linked up, and every cottage was a different gang, and every wing was a different whatever. So back then, it was overcrowded. Most of the cells there were single cells. They had just started doubling people up. Unfortunately for me, I get put in this kid's cell. He was about 24, 25. He was a black kid. And I got put on the floor at a mattress. Wide as a mattress. Now, this leads into a story I already told you, but this explains it. So it's as wide as my mattress. I'm on the floor. Now, you've been to a cell. When you walk in the cell, you got the sink right here, in the bed here, metal locker back here. We had TVs at MYI, little black and white TVs, radios. Cosmetics would be on the shelf. But now, I didn't have a bunk. I was on the floor on a mattress. So already, the guy that's in that cell is probably pissed the fuck off because he's used to being in a cell at night, lounging, doing what he wants. And here comes some stinky ass little white kid that had nothing but state products. And you know, when you use facility products like soap and shampoo, that shit doesn't make you smell good, dude. That shit makes you smell worse, but at least you're clean. And that's all I had, because I didn't have anybody, no money or anything. Again, in everything in prison, you actually have to, if you don't have money, you're not going to have anything that would make you fitted. Would that be the... So at that point, you know, I didn't have any, and I get dragged in, I get put in the cell. The kid hated me right away. Soon as I get locked in, his brothers come there. That's the white boy that got in fight with such and such. Fuck him. So the first thing this kid tells me is, you can't watch my TV. Cell's only so big. TV's right here. He turns to TV. Then he thinks that I'm trying to watch the TV, like on the corner, like I'm going to go through all that dude to watch it. Then he thinks I'm going to watch the TV through the window. Like I'm going to do all that. So finally he gets to the point where he bullies me. This kid was huge. And then he had all them dudes. He bullies me to the point where he had me, wanted me to face the wall. Like his bunk is here. He wanted me to turn and face the wall whenever he was in the cell and just sit there cross-legged and face the wall. And I couldn't make no noises. Well, if I'm going to go through all that dude, you might as well fuck me and I might as well suck your dick at that point, right? Fuck you. But I was on all that MHU medication. Because at that time I was back and forth into, because if you had violence, they put you in MHU. And the worse that you were, and I was the person that as soon as you put me, as soon as you locked me down, I got worse. I didn't get better. The harder you pressed, the harder I pushed back. I didn't learn my lesson until years later that I needed to be the one to back off, because they're never going to back off. In order for me not to be broke, because I don't ever want to be broke. Broke meaning, because I've been there on my own. I've been broke because I allowed myself to, but I won't let you break me, and I won't let you see me. And that is what drove me, and I was in this fucking cell, and I was scared. I didn't know what to do, but I used to like my MHU medication, and I used to get high on it. That's when I used to get like, Thorazine and Haldol and Lithium, and I'd crush that shit up, and he'd be like, yeah, wait, boy, that's cool, and he'd give me some commissary or whatever. He'd act like an asshole when his boys were there. But they had beat me up on several occasions. I fight, again, I fight, but I lose. So one night, I gave him a little bit extra, and that motherfucker passed out, and then I tied him to the bed, and that's the motherfucker that I beat all night in that cell. And when I mean all night, I mean from like three o'clock in the morning to about five, and I would... He was out cold when I tied him to that fucking bed, and I beat him with that soap, and I fucking talked shit to him, you cocksucker. And in the morning, he was a mess hall worker, and I was in that cell. I wasn't, so I knew them doors were gonna open, and I had one chance to get out of that fucking cell and get to that fucking pod before his boys were coming. But what I did do was I packed up all of his commissary, everything but his electronics. I couldn't take anything with his name and number on it because that could be disputed. I took all the rest of his shit, and I ran out of that cell with a sack full of his shit and him tied to the bed. And I went to Sagan. I never saw him where I had been. That place was a fucking sass pool. And brother, there's no help. Who's coming to help you? You know this. At the end of the day, your mother, your father, your sister, God, whoever the fuck is there can love you all they want. When you get locked in that cell, and there ain't nobody else.

Speaker 2:
[99:30] Who do you go to?

Speaker 4:
[99:34] You can't run. You know telling the cops makes it worse. Going to the cops and saying, hey, these guys are picking on me. All they're gonna do is put you in a worse situation. Going to anybody there is gonna make you look like a fucking fuckboy. What do you do, man? You gotta survive, and that's all I can do is survive. I'm just at the next stage now of my survival. Now I'm out, and I'm learning the world. And I figure that I got some interesting shit to say.