transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Fanatics executives were laughed at three years ago when they said their goal was to 10x the number of collectors in the sports card hobby. But we have new data in today, which suggests that they are actually well on their way to making that potentially happen. Is all of this new growth good for the sports card hobby, or are the side effects actually bad for collectors? We'll debate that right now. Hello, Sports Card Investors, and welcome to another episode of Cards on the Table here inside the Arena Club Studio at CardsHQ Teapot. Scott, great to see you, gentlemen. Today-

Speaker 2:
[00:51] Great to see you. We got the draft. People have been demanding Scott in the comments of the YouTube video, saying, bring Scotty back.

Speaker 3:
[00:57] Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:
[00:58] We brought him to the people. We're giving the people what they want. We got Scotty B. Cards here on set in person today. Speaking of the draft, I gotta go.

Speaker 2:
[01:06] You do.

Speaker 1:
[01:07] I'm going to the draft. You are. I'm going to the draft. I'm excited. Tops is doing their big activation. Their CardsHQ is set up at the draft. We have a whole card shop at the draft. We're selling singles. We're selling boxes on the field, in the stadium. Pittsburgh, Hines Field. I just called something else now. I don't know what it's called. I used to call it Hines Field. We're right there. Come see us if you're coming out to the draft. But that's not what we're here to talk about today. We got to talk about an eye-popping, jaw-dropping number that Michael Rubin casually threw out recently in an interview. There's been so much talk about the growth of the hobby. We all know the hobby is growing leaps and bounds, and there's a lot of reasons to be really excited about that. There's also side effects, like high box prices and people having trouble getting allocation that they want, people having trouble getting boxes in their own hands. So, there's side effects for sure, but the growth has definitely been there, and we've seen that. We've seen the prices of cards going through the roof. We've seen all these new collectors coming in every day. Well, Michael Rubin, in an interview the other day, said that Fanatics Collectibles revenue, so this is Fanatics Collectibles owns TOPS. They also own Fanatics Collect, the marketplace, and they own Fanatics Authentic. So, it's more than just TOPS, but the majority of it is TOPS. It's a lot of TOPS, right? He said that their revenue this year could reach, wait for it, $4.5 billion.

Speaker 2:
[02:36] With a B.

Speaker 1:
[02:37] $4.5 billion with a B. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[02:43] That's a lot of money.

Speaker 1:
[02:44] That's a big number. And people laughed, people laughed three, four years ago, when Rubin and the Fanatics executives, when they said they were gonna 10x the number of collectors. Do you know what Topps' all-time record high revenue was before Fanatics bottom?

Speaker 2:
[03:02] Not a billion.

Speaker 1:
[03:03] In the year 2020, Topps did $567 million in revenue. That was their all-time high. COVID, the COVID year, they did $567 million revenue, all-time high. Fanatics buys them. And this year, Fanatics collectibles, which Topps is the main part of, is about to do $4.5 billion. We're not quite 10x yet. We're there next week. We're getting close. We're getting close, right? And so that idea of the hobby being 10x, people were laughing, people thought this was hilarious that that was never gonna happen. Well, revenue-wise, we're getting there. Now, we may not have gotten there yet with the number of collectors, but it's worth noting that, of course, Panini had revenue back in 2020 as well, which should also be added to TOPS number. So we're definitely not 10x'd yet, but we are definitely on a path where now you look out to the future and you're like, oh yeah, I can see 10x. Like 10x is out there. Like 10x is actually, it seemed like, it seemed crazy three or four years ago to say this was gonna 10x. And now today you're like, okay, there's 10x off there in the distance, but it ain't, I'm approaching it. Like it could actually happen, right? This thing could actually come together. It's wild. Hearing this number made me go, gosh, here's the interesting thing. The last set of numbers that I saw on Fanatic's apparel business, if we go back and look at their revenue, I think their last full fiscal year report, it's maybe the year before last, their apparel business did, I believe, a little over 6 billion in revenue. And I said at that time, at that time, their collectibles business, I think, was like 2.3 billion. Sorry, 6 billion for apparel, 2.3 billion for collectibles. That was as of a couple of years ago. And I said at that time, I could see in the future, collectibles catching and passing apparel and becoming the biggest business unit of Fanatic's. And now, it is quickly catching up with apparel. And it would not surprise me if collectibles outpaces apparel here in a few years. I don't know if Michael Rubin would agree with that. I don't know if other Fanatic's executives would agree with that. In fact, I'm going to see Michael Rubin at the draft, and I'm going to ask him this very question teapot. Does he think collectibles will pass apparel? Because I think it will. I think, I think Fanatic's collectibles revenue will pass their apparel business and will become their biggest business unit. That's what I think is going to happen. I think that's on the growth path we're on. Of course, with this growth comes downside as well. So teapot, as you hear this number, what does it make you think? And is this a net positive or is this actually a net negative that this much growth has come into the sports card space?

Speaker 2:
[05:57] Everybody keeps wondering, is this a bubble? Is it not a bubble? And I've been asked this on other people's podcasts recently. We've talked about it on Spitball and it's a big conversation point. And I know you and I, I do not think this is a bubble this time around. I think it's just legitimately cementing popularity with more and more people coming in every day. And I think it's forcing a paradigm shift in our minds about things like pop counts, about rarity. What is rarity? Cards that we used to think of as rare if they were pop 200 or less in PSA 10. Maybe now that's 2,000 as it 10Xs as things grow. So I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Some different information. Victor Wenminyama's Prism rookie card market cap alone for PSA graded cards as tracked by market movers. We track every parallel in every PSA major PSA grade is over $75 million. Just for those cards for Wemby. Justin Wemby, Justin's Prism rookie cards is over $75 million.

Speaker 1:
[06:49] Graded Prism rookie cards.

Speaker 2:
[06:50] Graded PSA graded cards. $75 million. That's based on last sales and the number of pop count. We just had a social post or saw a social post about this. Pikachu Gray felt hat is at $145 million market cap. PSA 10 only. Just the PSA 10 is at $145 million.

Speaker 1:
[07:04] And that's a singular card.

Speaker 2:
[07:05] Single card in Pokemon.

Speaker 3:
[07:07] 70,000 pop, is that what it is?

Speaker 2:
[07:08] Yeah, something like that. It's insane. So I keep asking myself, like where's all this money coming from? We talked, you talked about $4.5 billion for Fanatics collectibles. Public marketplace card sales were estimated to be $8 to $10 billion last year, over the past year. And that doesn't include all the countless private sales that are happening. And if you take just the niche segment, PSA graded Pokemon cards as traded by market movers, so not the gray felt hat, how much do you think that total market cap is? All the, we have almost every PSA graded Pokemon card tracked in market movers, by the way.

Speaker 1:
[07:40] You're talking every single Pokemon card.

Speaker 2:
[07:42] So if you were to take the spot price and multiply it by the total pop counts of each individual card, what do you think that total is up to? I'm putting you on the spot here. I know it's kind of a weird thing to think about on the spot.

Speaker 1:
[07:53] I mean, many, many billions, I guess. I was going to say 10 billion was going to be my guess.

Speaker 2:
[07:58] 8.6 billion dollars. Okay. So we've got all these different stats. And then, Topps Chrome Hobby Football is $1,200 right now for a hobby box, you know, give or take. On an estimated 104,000 boxes produced by Topps, according to Slabsquatch on X, that's $125 million dollars worth of Topps Chrome Hobby boxes just to open them. And then all the singles that come out, and what does that turn into for money? And I just keep asking myself, who's spending this money? Median US household income is roughly $80,000 a year. Okay. More than half of Americans report living paycheck to paycheck. So I don't see that as like the piece that's fueling this. To me, this tells me that the hobby really has kind of, for a lot of stuff, become kind of a playground for those with more disposable discretionary income. And much of the chagrin and loud yelling of the people who have been shouting at us for six or seven years about how sports cards are not investments, a lot of people don't see it that way. It is a very real alternative investment asset class at this point for a lot of cards. A couple other stats. The sneaker business in 2024 did $94 billion in sales. And sports gambling did $150 billion. So if you think that $4.5 billion on sports cards is a big number, I got news for you. There's a lot of room for that to grow and go up. So I think everything's changing. Sports cards are cool again. People think they're awesome. Yes, it drives me nuts when I can't track down or buy fast enough on cards that I want. And the card that used to be $60 is now $450. But it's not going anywhere. This is not going anywhere.

Speaker 1:
[09:35] Teapot says no bubble.

Speaker 2:
[09:37] No bubble.

Speaker 1:
[09:38] There is no bubble, Scott. Do you agree? Are we in a bubble? Is this no bubble? What do you think of Ruben's numbers?

Speaker 3:
[09:44] I'm gonna make a movie called A Big Short about sports cards. Oh boy, please don't. It's gonna be me going in and doing it all. No, I think that when we say 10X in the hobby, I was one of the people that kind of laughed and in group chats made comments. And we're there revenue-wise. I think we're there collector-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if we're higher than 10X in regards to total collectors, but it has created an environment even for me and Ty, and even you, Geoff. I'm sure we all talk about this privately. It's also frustrating in some ways as a collector who was in this space before it happened.

Speaker 2:
[10:13] Sure, it is.

Speaker 3:
[10:14] And there's some people like myself who were rewarded with cards I owned that have been worth a ton more just because I had them prior to this big bubble. But there's others who are true collectors, and maybe I'm not a true collector according to some people because I like to sell cards to make money. I think most people do. But some people really are upset because now they can't get cards like they used to. And I understand that, and we need to be aware of those individuals and acknowledge them because it is unfortunate. And it's one of those things, it's like a box of Topps Chrome football, $2,000. That's my mortgage. I don't know how people are just laying that down. And so there are a lot of people that are wealthier than I am, wealthier than Ty, and it just makes it so, it's a fun environment. It's just very interesting to see how it'll play out. I was looking at some numbers prior to this. Do you want to guess the total sales revenue, how do I say this, total sales of all public sports cards in January of 2020? This number could be wrong, but this is what I found online.

Speaker 1:
[11:12] 60 million.

Speaker 3:
[11:13] 24 million. You want to know what it was this last month?

Speaker 1:
[11:15] It was over, I think it was top 400 million.

Speaker 3:
[11:18] 600 million.

Speaker 1:
[11:19] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[11:20] So that's monthly sales. And people like me, I prefer to do my deals through Instagram. So I would say probably half of the larger deals aren't even public record. And so it's just, it's a world-

Speaker 1:
[11:31] That's 30X, that's 30X, right?

Speaker 2:
[11:32] Literally.

Speaker 1:
[11:33] 30X.

Speaker 3:
[11:34] So I think we've blown past the 10X, and I wouldn't be surprised if we 10X'd again.

Speaker 2:
[11:40] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:40] You know, so it's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[11:42] To your last point, Scott, I'm gonna make a confession. I'm gonna make a confession right here on the show. I have spent less money on sports cards in the last 12 months than I had spent in any of the previous six years. And the reason why is because I was collecting for the last six years and I was buying up all of these Grails, Jordan Rookies, LeBron, you know, Gold Refractors, Kobe, late 90s inserts, Grail cards. I was buying them all up. And then today-

Speaker 2:
[12:18] DJ Lagway.

Speaker 1:
[12:19] DJ Lagway, Tesmin Ritter. I, no, let's cut that out. I buying up all these Grails. And then today, I see these cards that I own selling at auction. I'm not selling them, but I'm watching them sell for 3, 4, 5X what I bought them for. And part of me is like, that's amazing. That's wonderful. Look how much more valuable my collection is today than it was a few years ago. But then the other part of me is like, but then what the heck do I buy today? Because it's like, how can I justify spending 3, 4, 5X on these cards compared to what I could have bought them for two or three years ago?

Speaker 2:
[12:50] It's not just that question. It's, is this card that I own, are these cards that I own worth to me what they are worth to the open market now? You start looking at things going, I really like this card, but I liked it when I bought it for $40. And now it's worth $550. It's hard. I'm like, I don't know if I want to sell this. I like it. And then I can't go eat another one because they keep going up. It's a really, it messes with your head when you do have that collector gene and you're like, what the?

Speaker 3:
[13:14] I remember when $1,000 card to me was just like a crazy amount. And I remember the first $1,000 card I bought. It was a 2011 Mike Trout X-Fractor rookie autograph. I was so excited. And now people are spending $2,000 on stupid stuff. It's just crazy. And so I do think it's important for us to know, while yes, like the hobby is growing, it's 10Xing, we're still in the same environment like we were 10 years ago, where a majority of those cards are going to drop.

Speaker 1:
[13:41] Sure, sure.

Speaker 3:
[13:42] And so I think we need to acknowledge that because it's always fun on the ride up to say, like everything's going up. And in the moment it is, but you have to have like the long-term look so you don't get burnt out.

Speaker 1:
[13:50] Yeah, and I just this last, I think it was yesterday on the Geoff Wilson Show channel, or maybe it was last week. Last week on the Geoff Wilson Show channel, I did a whole video about like, what cards are going to hold value long-term. And by the way, it's not 99, it's 99% of the cards people are buying today is not those. It's your all-time greats. And it's the very best, is the very iconic, is that's what's going to hold value. So hopefully the folks out here watching, that's what they're putting their money on.

Speaker 3:
[14:12] Can I make one more point?

Speaker 2:
[14:13] Also dollar cards hold great value.

Speaker 1:
[14:16] Dollar cards?

Speaker 2:
[14:16] They just don't go down.

Speaker 1:
[14:17] Dollar cards are always a great value. Dollar, there you go, there you go. So they end up in the 50 cent bin.

Speaker 3:
[14:22] I remember when 10 years ago, I was ashamed to kind of say I was a sports card collector. What was I? I was 21, I was in college. I actually wrote some papers on sports card investing. So I was ahead of the curve there, but now it's cool to say you're a collector. And that part is really fun. Like it is really fun to see that evolution and have it be fun again. I will say that.

Speaker 1:
[14:39] There you go, look at that. You see, we're cool. We're all cool. You guys are cool.

Speaker 3:
[14:43] The comments totally agree that we're cool.

Speaker 1:
[14:45] The comments are 100% going to agree that we're cool. I know I can see it right now in the comments. Everyone's agreeing that we're cool.

Speaker 3:
[14:51] All right.

Speaker 1:
[14:52] Let's add to our collections, gentlemen. Let's rip a few Arena Club Slab Packs and see what we got. Scott, we're going to start with you today. What did you rip here?

Speaker 3:
[14:59] I picked baseball.

Speaker 1:
[15:00] Okay. We got a baseball Emerald. So these are the Emerald Baseball Arena Club Slab Packs on their website.

Speaker 3:
[15:07] Ooh, is that Paul Skeener?

Speaker 1:
[15:08] Was that a rookie variation gold? Image. Oh no, not a rookie. Not rookie.

Speaker 3:
[15:12] Has a rookie cup though. Rookie Cup, which to me is not as good, but it's still a second best thing.

Speaker 1:
[15:17] Well, it's not as good, but it is still the image variation.

Speaker 2:
[15:20] Is he holding a ball?

Speaker 1:
[15:21] Sapphire gold to 50.

Speaker 3:
[15:22] Yeah, that's great. I want to do that really nice card.

Speaker 2:
[15:24] I like that.

Speaker 1:
[15:25] Nice card. All right. Teapot, you do?

Speaker 2:
[15:27] Yeah, I want to be the very best. So I did Pokemon.

Speaker 1:
[15:30] Oh my gosh. We got to do a Pokemon opening here.

Speaker 3:
[15:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[15:32] Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1:
[15:33] What'd you get?

Speaker 2:
[15:34] Hey.

Speaker 3:
[15:34] Oh, is that Arcanine?

Speaker 2:
[15:35] Arcanine. 2001 Arcanine. Arguably one of the greatest pseudo legendaries. I'm sure you knew that, Geoff. More powerful in base stats than Charizard.

Speaker 1:
[15:44] So just look at just right behind that. Okay. Let's get back to sports. I rip football. Good ol American. We got the NFL draft going on.

Speaker 2:
[15:51] What's that?

Speaker 3:
[15:51] Oh, is that an SSP?

Speaker 2:
[15:53] Dude, you've been on a Mahomes heater.

Speaker 1:
[15:54] I just hit Mahomes every week.

Speaker 2:
[15:55] You hit Mahomes every week.

Speaker 1:
[15:56] Gold to 10.

Speaker 2:
[15:57] And I hit a Mahomes a few weeks ago.

Speaker 1:
[15:58] Gold to 10. Gold to 10 Mahomes.

Speaker 2:
[16:00] That's nasty.

Speaker 3:
[16:01] That's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[16:01] That's nasty.

Speaker 1:
[16:02] I bet you want to trade me a Pokemon card for that, don't you? I don't want your Pokemon card.

Speaker 3:
[16:06] You're a Paul Skiens fan.

Speaker 1:
[16:07] I like, well, I do like Paul Skiens, too. I like Paul Skiens. I keep my Mahomes.

Speaker 2:
[16:11] We're going to triangulate.

Speaker 1:
[16:11] And speaking of a Pokemon, before we move on to the next story, T-Pod and Arena Club, Arena Club is also, by the way, doing a massive giveaway right now. Pokemon has been unbelievably hot on the market. You saw the Pikachu Illustrator PSA 10 that sold for over 16 million dollars. There's been tons of high value Pokemon sales. Arena Club has acquired a Pokemon Grail card. The 2006 EX Holland Phantoms Hollow Pikachu Gold Star PSA 10. And what I do know from my son Harrison is that those Gold Stars from 2006 are a real big deal. So I'm sure this is a really big deal. I know it's a really big deal. It's a massive, massively expensive card. They're giving it away. The giveaway is open right now. All you have to do is follow Arena Club on Instagram. Follow Arena Club on Instagram. And on May 29th, they're gonna give the card to one of their followers. For rules and for alternate methods of entry, just go to arenaclub.com/giveaway.

Speaker 2:
[17:06] Roman just followed in.

Speaker 1:
[17:07] Follow Arena Club. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[17:09] I have six kids.

Speaker 1:
[17:09] All six of your kids are five. Let's jump into the next, maybe six soon. Let's jump into the next story. We've got hobby shops. We talked about the growth of the hobby. Now we've got athletes hopping into the hobby shop game. Of course, we all know about Card Vault by Tom Brady. That's been, they've been spreading like wildfire throughout the country. Many, many of those have been open. Well, now we've got the announcement that Lewis Hamilton is doing the same exact thing internationally. Lewis Hamilton has teamed with Dave and Adam's Card World to create Card Culture by Lewis Hamilton. Sounds a lot like Card Vault by Tom Brady. Card Culture by Lewis Hamilton. They're going to open up stores across Europe, Asia and Australia. Specifically, the United Kingdom is going to get more stores. The Middle East is going to get stores. Australia, all within the next five years, they're going to have additional stores open. This is part of the plan to grow the hobby globally. Very big deal. And even here in the United States, you've got athletes jumping into the card business as well. In fact, just very recently, last couple of weeks, it was announced that Candice Parker is partnering with a North Carolina shop owner to open up a new shop in Charlotte, a premier card shop in Charlotte that Candice Parker will be behind. T-Pot, your thoughts on the international expansion with Lewis Hamilton and just in general, athletes getting into the card shop ownership game.

Speaker 2:
[18:35] Yeah. Chip, Chip, Cheerio, it's coming to a shop near you, Card Culture, eh? What do you say, Scotty? Anyway, if we thought cards were expensive now, I don't know what happened. I mean, I've got English heritage, you know, it just came out. If we thought cards were expensive now, yeah, the demand for cards is going to keep rising. What happens when that untapped market that is, especially in Europe, really catches on. And obviously the US, if you look at disposable income levels is really the highest overall globally. But Japan's massive for baseball and Pokemon, especially high-end. China's massive monster market for basketball in particular and high-end. And this is going to add, I think, to that F1 and soccer fuel overall in Europe. And in these other places that he's going to, Lewis Hamilton has 43 million Instagram followers. So I'd say this is 100% a big deal. He is the globally equivalent.

Speaker 1:
[19:30] It's a lot more than any US athlete, right?

Speaker 2:
[19:32] Tom Brady is huge. So is Lewis Hamilton internationally and globally. So now they just need Messi to start opening stores in South America and maybe also in Europe to promote soccer. And this thing is just going to blow up.

Speaker 1:
[19:43] Tom Brady has 15 million.

Speaker 2:
[19:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:44] Followers on Instagram.

Speaker 2:
[19:45] These are, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:46] Lewis Hamilton's got 43 million.

Speaker 2:
[19:48] No joke. F1 is no joke. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's, I think this is another reason.

Speaker 1:
[19:53] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[19:54] That it's just soccer cards.

Speaker 1:
[19:58] Yes.

Speaker 2:
[19:58] To the moon.

Speaker 1:
[19:59] F1 cards.

Speaker 2:
[19:59] European moon.

Speaker 1:
[20:00] Yes. You know, every year at the National, Scott, every year at the National, I have a couple of people come up to me. They're relentless. Happens every year. It's like five years in a row. Somebody comes up to me at the National and they say, next big thing. Cricket. Cricket cards. Every year. And so far, I don't think anything's happened with Cricket cards. But there are some diehard Cricket card collectors who have vintage Cricket cards. There's not many of them out there. Not many cards out there and not many collectors out there, but there's a few and they all swear that at some point in time, these Cricket cards are going to be the next big thing. They may not be wrong. What do you think about the international growth, Scott?

Speaker 3:
[20:42] Well, a good place to look for my world in regards to baseball cards that I can look at is Otani's 2013 BBM market. So I've kind of been a proponent of the 2013 BBM cards. I've even made a couple of videos explaining how they all work, kind of like what the hierarchy is. And those have gone insane once people realized how great they are. I think we're in that young stage right now with so many other things. And I don't think we realize how big the world is. Ty already kind of mentioned like the followers, but we're like we're in a little bubble here. American football is a huge deal. It's by far the biggest sport. No one else cares about it. People care about soccer. They care about cricket. They care about all these things. So I do think that for 10X in the hobby, like we haven't even seen the beginning of it in regards to international markets. Plus Tops has so many IPs. Like I was shocked how many they had. They were doing really cool things where they were actually mixing different leagues. I am so ignorant in regards to like how that all works in regards to soccer and football.

Speaker 2:
[21:33] They just won the World Cup sticker licenses for like several countries.

Speaker 3:
[21:36] Did you see that?

Speaker 1:
[21:36] Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2:
[21:38] They just won it from Panini.

Speaker 1:
[21:40] No, Panini is just winning the stickers now.

Speaker 2:
[21:42] It's not all countries, but it's like the UK and I think it's Brazil.

Speaker 3:
[21:46] But like they're going to do so much with that. So I think it's going to be crazy. I didn't know that. It's going to be great to see it happen in the UK. These people deserve like really great card opportunities as well. I think the biggest issue for those individual collectors over there was the fact they had no access.

Speaker 1:
[22:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[22:01] I was talking to a card shop owner who's in the UK. She's the only female card shop owner in the UK. She was telling me they just can't get product because of tariffs and all these things. If we can get over that with this, I think that it's a very small market now that could become a sleeping giant.

Speaker 1:
[22:15] It's interesting. All right.

Speaker 2:
[22:16] Can you imagine Wembley Stadium? Just 90,000 people packed out in there. Total lunatics, just ripping packs while they're yelling.

Speaker 3:
[22:24] That'd be pretty fun.

Speaker 2:
[22:25] Where's my top loader?

Speaker 3:
[22:27] I think we need a whole segment.

Speaker 1:
[22:28] It's a Brave New World T-Pot. It's a Brave New World.

Speaker 3:
[22:31] Cheerio. We need a whole segment with English tie next week. What do you think?

Speaker 2:
[22:35] Tea time with T-Pot.

Speaker 3:
[22:35] 20 minutes.

Speaker 1:
[22:37] Tea time with T-Pot. Let's do it. Okay. Two more stories to get to, guys. Yesterday was the release day of 2025-26 Bowman Basketball, a day that should be very exciting. It is the first time Tops has ever mixed your college NIL athletes with the official team jerseys and logos with Pro. But there are some skeptics. And part of the reason why some are skeptical is some believe that college cards, NIL cards, may not be as desirable in the long term as we once thought and hope they would because of the transfer portal. Because of the fact that college players at this moment in time seem to have no loyalty to their programs, except for my Florida Gators, which are all back next year to win another championship teapot. Except they're all back next year. All my Gator basketball players, all my Gator basketball players are all back. But besides for the Gators, which is a very rare exception of a wonderful team, all the other teams, they're just players just jumping back and forth, left and right all the time every year. So does that make, does that curb any of the excitement around this Bowman basketball release or the idea of collecting college cards? You're a big Sparty fan and a big Notre Dame fan. Do you have to think twice now about buying the college card of a player who you support because maybe they're in a different college uniform next year, what do you think?

Speaker 2:
[24:01] It might not just be the players, your coach might go to the Warriors. So let's see what happens there. Geoff, it used to be that you had to hide all the secret bags of money that you wanted to give to these college athletes. Pete Carroll had to sneak the funds to Matt Leonard and Reggie Bush so they could illegally beat Notre Dame at the last second in a game and pay for talent. Now it's all out in the open. It's a free market and I hate what NIL has done to college sports. I understand the athletes, it's like, well, they should get theirs. Like, they're the ones driving all of this revenue that goes into college sports all over the country and a lot of different sports. But I think it's high time we started calling it what it is. It's professional sports. This is not college sports anymore. It's just professional sports with the tribal insanity that comes with the people like yourself who went to the school, but it's professional sports. So these, you know, and then in addition to that, you've got these athletes like in SEC and ACC who don't even go to class. They just play sports and then they go off to their league or whatever, but you get attached to them and you buy all their Bowman U Cards and you believe in them and you're excited about the prospect of them taking your team to the promised land and then they jump ship. They go somewhere else and that's really frustrating. Even somebody like Riley Leonard, who I'm a big fan of, he was at Duke for three years and Duke fans loved him. And then he transferred and went to Notre Dame and led us to a national championship appearance. And I just, I kind of wish we had had him for four years at Notre Dame. That's part of what I think always made college sports beautiful. You had these players who you could get attached to for years over years and remember the legacy. And now they're just, you don't know. It's a really weird environment because even in professional sports, professional associations, leagues, they don't get to just jump teams every year through a transfer portal. They either get traded or maybe they hit free agency and then they make those decisions. These guys are just out there like, hey, some other donor is waving a big bag of money down in South Beach at me. Let me go see what's up down there.

Speaker 1:
[25:57] So unless you're Tommy Hauk.

Speaker 2:
[25:59] Yeah, I guess so. I guess so.

Speaker 1:
[26:01] Let's go. I don't love it.

Speaker 2:
[26:02] I don't love it. And I don't think I think it is a real concern for that.

Speaker 1:
[26:05] It is a real concern. It is a real concern. I agree. Scott, what are your perspective on this?

Speaker 3:
[26:11] So are you familiar with Juan Soto and his journey throughout four different teams in several years? No one wants his cards right now. Like Nats fans probably do.

Speaker 1:
[26:20] Especially the middle teams, right?

Speaker 3:
[26:22] The Yankees, the Padres.

Speaker 2:
[26:23] Padres and Yankees.

Speaker 1:
[26:24] Like I think, I feel like the Nats, that's his rookie card, that's his first Bowman card.

Speaker 3:
[26:28] One of World Series there, so there's still love there.

Speaker 1:
[26:31] Yeah, but then he wanted the Padres. Then he wanted the Yankees. Then he wanted the Nats.

Speaker 3:
[26:35] And he was traded every time. It wasn't even his choice. And we're still holding it against him. I bought a World Series game used autographed patch of Juan Soto. It has the tops.com certification showing it was worn in game two, or he had a home run off of Yamamoto. It was a really cool card, 400 bucks. Yankees fans don't want it, even though he did great for them. Why do we think that we'll want the college cards? Like if we don't want these players like Juan Soto and the Yankees, if Yankees fans don't want it, why do we think that'll translate? I just don't think it will at all. I mean, I don't know if this is a bad example. I know your guys are much bigger into college sports than me. But what if Tim Tebow played for Florida for one year, did great, took him to the National Championship, but then he transferred to Georgia? Would you want his cards? Like it's one of those things, and then he transfers to Florida.

Speaker 1:
[27:20] I know, but this would never happen with Tim Tebow. This is an impossible.

Speaker 2:
[27:23] You keep his wife's name out your mouth.

Speaker 1:
[27:24] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:25] But I'm just saying like, I think that is gonna hurt.

Speaker 1:
[27:28] The exact scenario happened with the ETN brother.

Speaker 2:
[27:31] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:32] Travis ETN, right? Trevor ETN, I get confused Travis and Trevor, they're brothers, but yes, ETN. He played for the Gators. He was a good running back for the Gators for a couple of years. I bought one of his really nice first Bowman Otto, I think at the Orange to 25, and then he goes to Georgia.

Speaker 2:
[27:48] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[27:50] I could not have gotten rid of that card faster. I literally the next day that card was out of my collection and gone, didn't want it anymore. So yeah, there's your real world example.

Speaker 3:
[28:01] It's what's going to happen on top of that. I mean, we've kind of already been going this route where you have less, like you don't really get as connected to players since like the one and done phenomenon has become a thing. And so I think like we've already kind of been going this way where there's not as much like love for certain players, but certain players can break the mold like a Tim Tebow. And so I think we're just going to see less of those. The players that can do it are going to have value the same, but it's just going to be fewer and far between where you're going to have random second team cards of players.

Speaker 1:
[28:26] Yeah. All right, all right. Sad life ahead, unless you're a Gator fan and all your people are loyal, which ours are. Let's go to the final topic. Basketball only, not football as much. Let's go to the final topic today. So, Topps Chrome Football, we've had this out for a little while now, not long, but it's been exciting to see how that product has been reacted to in the market over the course of the last week. The big news surrounding the Topps Chrome Football release was the short prints, the inserts, right? Topps really stepping up its inserts game. In particular, two of the inserts seemed to garner the most attention and popularity pre-launch, and that trend has continued now that the product's been out for a little while. Specifically, the Kaiju, which is a new insert that Topps created this year, maybe a little bit of their answer to the manga inserts from Panini, maybe. Very nicely designed insert, got the Japanese lettering, cool looking card. And then the Tecmo inserts, the throwback to the classic Tecmo bowl game. A lot of people super excited about those inserts, including myself. Those two are kind of the headline inserts. We now have sales data on these inserts from the first bit of time that these have been on market. The Kaijus right now are selling for a bit more than the Tecmo's. We've had Kaijus selling. We've had the Joe Burroughs sell for 10,000, the Cam Ward up for 11,000, Jackson Dart, 11,500, Jaden Daniels, 13,100. These are non-autographed, just the base Kaiju, non-numbered. Tecmo, Bo Jackson, 6,000, Mahomes, 12,500. You've had a Cam Ward Auto. Now that's an auto version, which they have on the Tecmo, is not on the Kaiju's. Cam Ward Auto went for 12,750. So Kaiju's doing a little bit more, Tecmo's a little bit less. Are these the two best inserts, Scott, from this product? Which one of these would you rather have? Or is there something else? Is there another Tops insert, whether it's in this product or another product that you would rather collect?

Speaker 3:
[30:26] So for this product, yes. To me, it's pretty clear. And I actually thought this when they showed it. They were great looking cards. And the Tecmo, for me, I didn't play the game much growing up, but I think they're super nostalgic, super great cards. The autographs in particular look amazing. Those are just great looking cards. But there are some inserts we haven't seen yet. So in baseball, obviously Bowman's probably bigger than it is in football and basketball. Maybe that'll change as time moves forward. But they have a lot of things in Bowman that could do really well. The Spotlight, very simple card. It's the player, it's focusing the player with a spotlight coming down. They present very well. They're very pretty cards. We also have some other inserts that are just really great. So I think they could be challenged by those new ones. But for Tops Chrome, it's clear these are the two best. The Kaiju, I kind of feel like it's replacing more of the downtown than it is. I know it is replacing what you mentioned, but for me, it's gonna be like the new downtown. Because I don't think Homefield Advantage is good. I've never, it's just always felt like a knockoff. It feels like they're trying too hard. The art style is just off. And so I think Kaiju is going to be the card, not Homefield Advantage or Homecourt Advantage Ambassador.

Speaker 1:
[31:31] Kaiju is a lot more expensive though. So that's part of, they'd have to print it a little more value-wise for it to get more comparable. But I hear you.

Speaker 3:
[31:38] Oh, I have one more. Can I say one more thing? Liquid silver, liquid gold, and diamond icons.

Speaker 1:
[31:43] Yeah, diamond icons.

Speaker 3:
[31:44] That'll be other sets. Like those cards, those are super short printing.

Speaker 1:
[31:47] You know, I've never seen one in person. They look awesome. Never seen one in person.

Speaker 3:
[31:51] Those are gonna go for more, in my opinion.

Speaker 1:
[31:53] Okay. Those haven't gotten a ton of attention. Of course, they're so short printing, hardly ever. I've never seen one. Never seen it. I would like to see one. Your thought?

Speaker 2:
[32:01] I like both of these ones we're talking about, the Kaiju's and the Tecmo's. There's a lot of other cool ones that have come out in different products that I like more. All Kings and All Aces are still number one for me. In hand, the texturing and the foil and just the simplicity, I think those are fantastic. Ultraviolet's, those are amazing, in my opinion.

Speaker 1:
[32:21] I would say maybe Ultraviolet, more comparable to Downtown because price-wise, they're actually more similar.

Speaker 2:
[32:25] Yeah, and so, and then I really like the Alter Egos that they did. Gilded, Chrome Gilded has a set called Gold Storm. We have one of those out here for sale that have been very popular. Cosmic has a super short printed set called Constellations. That's super cool. And I definitely had the Liquid Gold and Silvers written down, Shadow Edge, Boman anime is also comparable to the Mangas. We see those out of baseball. And then you had a Gibbs Genies, which I think those look sweet. Those are really cool. So the big thing here is... Oh, I got to go out there. I just saw them restocking while we're recording.

Speaker 1:
[32:59] They just put it out there, I think.

Speaker 2:
[33:00] Oh, let's go.

Speaker 1:
[33:01] I decided to turn it into the store the other day to get some store credit.

Speaker 2:
[33:04] Let's go. You should have sold it to me and just gotten cash, but here we...

Speaker 1:
[33:08] You can buy right there.

Speaker 2:
[33:09] All right.

Speaker 3:
[33:10] Geoff doesn't like it.

Speaker 2:
[33:10] Yeah, yeah. So this is a big thing I would say. This is just three years ago. I don't know that I would have mentioned a single Tops insert in the same breath as anything from Panini. Panini was putting out... I don't really like downtowns, but I love a lot of other Panini inserts, and I'll miss them. Tops is stepping up their game. They brought some designers in who kind of are bringing some of that inspiration, and they're not batting a thousand. Nobody does. It's also very subjective, so I don't like stuff that other people do. But this list is growing so much that I'm like... I used to go like, which ones do I like? Now I'm like, oh, this one, this one, this one, this one. I can rattle them off. So I've got a lot of eBay safe searches for tops, inserts, and that wasn't the case back then.

Speaker 3:
[33:53] There you go. Can I ask you guys a question? Baseball cards, the collectors in baseball operate significantly different than the collectors in basketball and football. As we start to see like, cause Kaidu doesn't exist in baseball yet, Tecmo doesn't exist in baseball. Once we see spotlight of Cooper flag go for a bunch of money, do we think that will translate to the sales of plays?

Speaker 1:
[34:11] It may. I mean, that's been...

Speaker 2:
[34:13] I think it's contagious.

Speaker 1:
[34:13] That's been a teapot's theory with dynasty cards.

Speaker 3:
[34:16] It's starting to happen already.

Speaker 2:
[34:17] Oh yeah, big time.

Speaker 1:
[34:18] Yeah, for sure. That's been the theory.

Speaker 2:
[34:20] Contagious price elevation.

Speaker 1:
[34:21] I think so. Is that an opportunity? Cause there's enough crossover collectors. I collect all three sports. There's enough crossover collectors where I think, if cards are doing a certain thing on one sport, it will eventually affect the other sports, similar cards. All right, there you go. What do you guys think? What do you guys think out there? Let us know in the YouTube comments what your thoughts are on the inserts, as well as the different topics from today. And don't forget to go get your own Arena Club Slab Hack promo code SCI for 20% off, and then go follow Arena Club on Instagram to enter that Pikachu giveaway. Thanks for watching. We'll see you soon with our next one. Take care.