transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2:
[00:02] Good day, Internet.
Speaker 1:
[00:04] Philly Codhound, I got a notification that a package arrived at my PO box. I assume that's the stuff you sent, and I will get it probably today and go get it. So thank you for sending things on.
Speaker 3:
[00:17] Rob Dunwood, you're in a different place.
Speaker 4:
[00:20] I am. I'm up near Len today. I'm in Akron.
Speaker 1:
[00:25] He's in Len's basement.
Speaker 4:
[00:25] I'm in Akron. I will be much closer to Len right after we get done doing the show because I'm actually going downtown Cleveland to go to a concert tonight.
Speaker 3:
[00:34] Very cool. I see there's a little bit of teal behind you in the room behind you, so I feel like it's still Rob, the Rob that we know and love.
Speaker 1:
[00:44] Yeah, it's almost like he's in the next room.
Speaker 4:
[00:47] No, teal goes wherever Rob goes.
Speaker 5:
[00:49] There's always going to be teal.
Speaker 4:
[00:53] We have a contract.
Speaker 6:
[00:55] When do you go home tonight?
Speaker 4:
[00:58] Now, I want to head back first thing tomorrow morning right before I do headlines.
Speaker 6:
[01:04] Dang.
Speaker 1:
[01:05] Who you seeing?
Speaker 4:
[01:06] I know you told me about it, but a snarky puppy, so they are a jazz fusion band, orchestra, you could almost call them because there's a bunch of them.
Speaker 1:
[01:15] Do not get confused with skinny puppy, entirely different.
Speaker 6:
[01:18] Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:
[01:18] No, not skinny puppy.
Speaker 4:
[01:20] So where are they playing? I will be as specific as I possibly can, somewhere in downtown Cleveland.
Speaker 6:
[01:27] Okay.
Speaker 3:
[01:31] Len, just go down there, you'll find him.
Speaker 4:
[01:33] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[01:34] I'm going to look it up.
Speaker 1:
[01:35] You have an address that you will put in your navigation map later.
Speaker 6:
[01:40] I just want to see what the venue is going to be.
Speaker 2:
[01:42] What is that silver thing over your left shoulder?
Speaker 4:
[01:45] Silver thing over my left shoulder.
Speaker 2:
[01:46] No, it's not silver. It's a flower. It's a little flower pot.
Speaker 4:
[01:49] Yeah, just a flower sitting on a stand back there. So there's a big old box next to that.
Speaker 6:
[01:54] I see where they're playing.
Speaker 3:
[01:55] I want to know more about that.
Speaker 1:
[01:58] Enough about jazz or something.
Speaker 6:
[02:00] No, where you're going is actually a pretty nice venue. It's going to be good.
Speaker 1:
[02:07] Len knows where you're going.
Speaker 6:
[02:09] No, I just looked it up. Yeah, it's a good venue.
Speaker 2:
[02:13] Do you have a specific place you'll eat at or just because you're up there?
Speaker 4:
[02:20] I believe that we're going to stop by my father-in-law's before we head up and just grab some pizza or something, just go see him right fast because I don't think the show starts until late. Here's the thing, if I were to leave right after the show or I leave an hour after the show, I get there at the same time because I'll either be dealing with rush hour or I won't be dealing with rush hour. We're going to go a little later and get there. We did the valet parking and stuff, so we'll just literally pull right up and then walk on it.
Speaker 3:
[02:51] This is a dumb question because I know lots of cities are associated with certain kinds of foods. What's the Cleveland thing?
Speaker 6:
[03:00] Pierogies.
Speaker 4:
[03:01] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:01] Oh, all right. That sounds good.
Speaker 6:
[03:03] Pierogies.
Speaker 3:
[03:04] Roger and I were talking about pierogies yesterday.
Speaker 2:
[03:07] Yeah. So wait, what's the one with the Skyline chili on top of spaghetti?
Speaker 6:
[03:12] That's Columbus.
Speaker 2:
[03:12] That's Columbus.
Speaker 6:
[03:14] Or Cincinnati, maybe.
Speaker 3:
[03:16] Okay. So the Cleveland pierogies is like, that's what you get.
Speaker 2:
[03:19] Yes. But there's no hot dog thing. That's like a Chicago thing, right?
Speaker 6:
[03:24] Chicago or Philly. You know what? Our is condiments. So, stadium mustard. Yeah. Stadium mustard is what you get. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[03:35] And stadium mustard is not yellow mustard. It's something different.
Speaker 4:
[03:39] No, it's deliciousness.
Speaker 3:
[03:42] Like spicy brown type stuff. I'm a mustard fan, so this is good intel.
Speaker 6:
[03:49] If you go to a Guardians game, get a couple of hot dogs, put Burt Mints on there and some onions, no ketchup, and that's the taste of summer.
Speaker 1:
[03:59] C-Pots is now demanding a Robin Len meet up. I assume he's in the area.
Speaker 6:
[04:05] I'll meet him at his father-in-law's house.
Speaker 2:
[04:07] Yeah, yeah. Are the hot dogs like standard stadium hot dogs, or are they like the Costco size?
Speaker 6:
[04:13] No, they're stadium, but they're good.
Speaker 4:
[04:14] Stadium hot dogs?
Speaker 6:
[04:16] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[04:16] What do you have against Costco hot dogs? They're good, too. I know what you mean, though.
Speaker 4:
[04:22] I thought you meant the foot-long ones that you get from Costco, but no, these are nice.
Speaker 2:
[04:26] Yeah, like the really big ones.
Speaker 3:
[04:27] Are these like bratwurst? No, they're just regular hot dogs.
Speaker 6:
[04:32] Hot dogs wrapped in foil, and they're perfect.
Speaker 3:
[04:37] You get the mustard, you got the whittle it out, the onions.
Speaker 6:
[04:40] Yeah. You got to get a couple when you go see a Guardians game.
Speaker 2:
[04:44] I used to think hot dogs are very uncomplicated food things, but then I started looking online down a rabbit hole of different variations of hot dogs throughout the world. And so in Chile, they have what they have, they call the completo, which is basically like a foot long hot dog, but they start, they cram mayo, guacamole, like they cram like a lot of stuff into it. It's like a hot dog burrito. It's like more condiment than meat. Like if you saw it.
Speaker 4:
[05:17] That sounds like one of those street hot dogs you would get like in Seattle, where there's literally every kind of condiment you can imagine on the hot dog. They're delicious, but it's, you almost have to eat it with a fork and a knife. It's so messy.
Speaker 1:
[05:32] That's the Chicago style. It's like that too.
Speaker 2:
[05:35] That's weird. The one thing I don't remember from my time in Seattle is the food. Like it's not that it was bad, but like it didn't leave an impression. There's very few locations I've been to where-
Speaker 1:
[05:47] You just ate fog the entire time you were there.
Speaker 2:
[05:49] Like at the time I think-
Speaker 3:
[05:50] Did you go to the fish market and-
Speaker 2:
[05:52] Yeah, I did all the old things.
Speaker 1:
[05:54] Did you get a Starbucks at the original Starbucks?
Speaker 2:
[05:56] The chocolate covered cherries that they have.
Speaker 1:
[06:00] Rainier cherries.
Speaker 2:
[06:01] They sell as like tourist thingies, but-
Speaker 3:
[06:04] Yeah. If anybody knows what to get in Seattle, I wouldn't know either. I've only been there once in my life.
Speaker 6:
[06:10] I had one of the best eggs Benedict in Seattle. It was actually a Dungeness crab. Eggs Benedict. Yeah, it was at a hotel. I couldn't tell you what the hotel was, but I ordered it and I was like, wow, this is really good. I'd never had eggs Benedict before, so then anything after that was like a real letdown. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:
[06:35] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[06:36] If you find out that's not eggs Benedict, it's something else.
Speaker 1:
[06:39] I think of beer and coffee when I think of Seattle. They have really good craft breweries.
Speaker 3:
[06:45] And just back and forth all day.
Speaker 2:
[06:48] I will take back what I just said. The only thing I remember food wise was top-bought donuts. And that's because they're like the really overly garnished.
Speaker 1:
[06:58] Jonathan Vargas wants to know.
Speaker 3:
[06:59] Seattle and Portland, I feel like, were sort of like they were the start of the fancy donuts.
Speaker 2:
[07:05] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[07:07] Maybe it happened in other places, but at least on the West Coast, it was like, ooh, voodoo donuts.
Speaker 1:
[07:13] Is Scrapple as big in Ohio as it is in Pennsylvania? No. Jonathan also wants to know, pop or soda? What do you say?
Speaker 4:
[07:23] I think most people here say pop.
Speaker 6:
[07:25] Pop, soda, eh.
Speaker 2:
[07:27] As long as you don't say coke. That threw me off the first time. I was a little...
Speaker 3:
[07:31] Oh, meaning like a blanket term for all soda?
Speaker 2:
[07:33] Yeah, like, oh, you want a coke? I was like, no, no, I want like a root beer. It's like, okay.
Speaker 6:
[07:38] That's funny.
Speaker 3:
[07:40] Yeah. I definitely say soda, but I know what people mean when they say pop. I'm like, oh, you're from the Midwest. Got it.
Speaker 6:
[07:49] So also in in Seattle, a place called the Crumpet Shop, best fresh squeezed orange juice, Crumpet Shop.
Speaker 1:
[07:57] Okay.
Speaker 4:
[07:58] So I get cringed to Seattle a bunch, and I can't really remember the food. The only time I remember it. I'm not bragging on the food, but it wasn't like I was going to the four o'clock.
Speaker 1:
[08:09] I'm beer.
Speaker 2:
[08:11] I was more mindful of the fact that I did one of those walking tours, and the part of downtown Seattle was built on top of the burnt remains of the past Seattle.
Speaker 1:
[08:22] Yeah, you take the underground tour. It's really cool. Joe Janos wants to insist that Skyline Chili is Cincinnati, and they say Pop in Cleveland.
Speaker 4:
[08:33] Yeah, White Castle might be Columbus.
Speaker 2:
[08:36] Oh, is White Castle in Ohio? I thought that was...
Speaker 1:
[08:39] It's all over the Midwest, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[08:40] Now, I know Roger's doing...
Speaker 4:
[08:41] No, no, but I think that would have started in Columbus, though. Wendy's is definitely based in Columbus.
Speaker 3:
[08:45] I know Roger's doing a quiz later. But Len, because you talked about Eggs Benedict, and I'm a Hollandaise sauce fan, not everybody is. But what is that made of?
Speaker 6:
[08:57] Hollandaise from Yolk?
Speaker 1:
[08:59] Yeah, it's made of Dutch people.
Speaker 3:
[09:01] Okay. I always wondered.
Speaker 6:
[09:03] So, whatever it is, it's good. It's probably not good for you, though.
Speaker 3:
[09:07] No, but like honestly, I couldn't tell you what it is. I just know I like it.
Speaker 6:
[09:11] It says creamy sauce.
Speaker 3:
[09:13] It's a creamy sauce, but thank you.
Speaker 1:
[09:15] Clarified butter and some kind of acid like lemon juice or white wine vinegar.
Speaker 2:
[09:20] To break it down, it's emulsifier.
Speaker 6:
[09:22] Sulfuric acid.
Speaker 3:
[09:23] It was supposed to be a riddle.
Speaker 6:
[09:24] Have a good show everybody.
Speaker 1:
[09:34] Good day, internet, this is the DTNS Live Thursday Hangout from Studio 7 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt.
Speaker 3:
[09:41] From Studio Animal House, I am Sarah Lane.
Speaker 4:
[09:44] From Akron, Ohio, I'm Rob Dunewood.
Speaker 6:
[09:47] Drawing the top tech stories in Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta.
Speaker 2:
[09:51] And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang.
Speaker 1:
[09:54] Welcome to our weekly recap of the biggest tech news of the week. It's good to have everybody, good to have you Len, good to have you Rob, Sarah, Roger, Joe, Craig, Philip, Codhound, Clinton.
Speaker 6:
[10:07] Sure.
Speaker 1:
[10:07] I'm going to just read everybody's name.
Speaker 6:
[10:11] It's like romper room.
Speaker 3:
[10:12] We're happy to have you. Yeah, we see you.
Speaker 1:
[10:14] You sound very happy.
Speaker 3:
[10:17] We see you Len.
Speaker 1:
[10:20] Hi Len.
Speaker 3:
[10:21] How many people even remember romper room?
Speaker 1:
[10:23] Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 3:
[10:24] That's a good question.
Speaker 4:
[10:25] I do.
Speaker 2:
[10:25] I used to watch it before I tied my shoes to go to school.
Speaker 1:
[10:28] Romper, stomper.
Speaker 6:
[10:30] Bomber boom.
Speaker 4:
[10:31] I don't remember watching it, but I do remember it being a thing.
Speaker 1:
[10:35] It came on before Mr. Rogers for us, and then Captain Kangaroo after that.
Speaker 2:
[10:41] It came on after the great space coaster for me.
Speaker 3:
[10:44] It always struck me, well, I guess it depends on how it came on, but it was like romper room was for the really little kids. Then Mr. Rogers was like for like little kids. And then you get to Sesame Street where kids are like, and then you got to Electric Company and you're like.
Speaker 6:
[11:01] And then you go to a hotel somewhere else.
Speaker 2:
[11:05] And then you watch Mr. Captain Kangaroo and say, what is this?
Speaker 1:
[11:08] Uno, dos, tres, cuatro.
Speaker 3:
[11:12] Well, everybody, if you're watching this live, we're not crazy, we assure you. And you can also help us name this episode. Head to dtns.showbot.tv right now to submit titles and vote on them throughout the show, because we're gonna check back in on the votes at the end of the show with all of our patrons and crown a winner.
Speaker 1:
[11:30] Yeah, you're gonna want to be a patron. This show and all the shows in the DTS universe are made possible by the patrons. Thanks to all of you, including Brandon Brooks, Johnny Hernandez, Hi Tech Oakey, and Chris Zaragoza. All right, we like to start the show looking at the top tech stories of the week. We're gonna be talking about John Ternus being named the new or I guess next CEO of Apple. We're gonna talk about the Framework Laptop 13 Pro, the Modular Laptop, those are both big stories. But before we get to those, what else was big this week? Kind of everything got overshadowed by Apple announcing a successor to Tim Cook, right?
Speaker 3:
[12:14] I mean, the Google TPU chips was a pretty big story.
Speaker 1:
[12:17] Yeah, especially because they put one for inferencing and one for training out, which was I think unexpected for some. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[12:26] I honestly, the Huawei, the new foldable that they have.
Speaker 1:
[12:31] Oh, the wide one, the Pure X Max.
Speaker 2:
[12:33] That's like the first foldable like that's actually something I would use.
Speaker 1:
[12:37] You won't be able to get a Huawei one very easily in the United States, but you will get that style. Samsung is reported to be working on it. Apple is reported to be working on it. I'm sure OnePlus is going to do one too.
Speaker 2:
[12:50] That shape totally makes sense to me.
Speaker 4:
[12:54] I'm with you, Roger. I like the shape of that. I like the style of it because for me, if I'm going to have a phone that folds into something, I want it to be an ideal form factor when it opens up. So I think these are a bit more ideal to use to where you can watch movies on them, you don't have the big giant bands at the top and the bottom, and they just look more like a tablet when they're open as compared to a unfolded phone. So I'm not necessarily interested in this particular one because it's going to be very difficult to get here in the States, but I am interested in the form factor overall.
Speaker 1:
[13:27] Anybody going to misread Hastings?
Speaker 3:
[13:30] You know, I don't know him all that well.
Speaker 1:
[13:33] He's not going away. He's just stepping down from the board of Netflix.
Speaker 3:
[13:36] The man is alive.
Speaker 1:
[13:37] That would have been the end of an era story for the week if it hadn't been for Apple, right?
Speaker 4:
[13:41] Exactly. Because I mean, you figure it is a thing or a magnificent seven however you want to look at it company. So I mean, it's been there forever. So it would have been bigger if it were not for the Apple News that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2:
[13:55] I'll say this about Reid. I forgot that he moved on to the board when he stepped down from running the company, right? So I just thought he left. So in my mind, he was already gone.
Speaker 3:
[14:09] Well, because he was a co-CEO for a while.
Speaker 1:
[14:12] Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:
[14:13] And then moved to the board. Yes. Which doesn't mean that you're not hands-on, but you're stepping away on some aspects. And to say like, yeah, I'm out of here at this point. Because Netflix is, it's not like, oh, this is associated with Netflix going into the ditch. The company doesn't work anymore. It very much does. Netflix is doing great. So it might have a lot to do with just maybe he's tired, maybe the company feels that they're better off without him.
Speaker 1:
[14:47] He just needs a nap. He'll be fine.
Speaker 3:
[14:49] He needs a nap.
Speaker 4:
[14:50] And people retire at some point. So you know what? I've been working long enough. I want to go enjoy the rest of my time and just do the things I want to do.
Speaker 3:
[14:58] And I'm just gonna guess that Reed Hastings probably has some good retirement money at this point.
Speaker 1:
[15:04] You think?
Speaker 3:
[15:05] You know, if you're just like, I'd like to go on a cruise. He's got the money.
Speaker 1:
[15:09] He says he's gonna do philanthropy, which is just like boilerplate person leaving company.
Speaker 2:
[15:14] I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and, you know, I'm gonna do the things for the people.
Speaker 1:
[15:19] Yeah. I mean, Netflix is at a saturation point. He is leaving it on a high note. There's a lot of concerns about where it's gonna go. Like you said, it's doing great. But I don't think him leaving has anything to do with like, oh, it's about to go in the tank. Let me get out of here. I think it's just time.
Speaker 2:
[15:36] I'm sure he is at that point where he knows that the company seems to be running fine. Without him directly being involved.
Speaker 1:
[15:42] He hasn't been directly involved, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[15:45] And so also like he's like, yeah, maybe I want to go pursue my passion of making eggs benedict or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
[15:53] Yeah. Hastings Hollandaise.
Speaker 3:
[15:56] He probably knows what Hollandaise sauce is made of.
Speaker 1:
[15:58] He does. He didn't have to look it up on Google like I did.
Speaker 3:
[16:04] Well, you might have thoughts on what you think the top tech story of this week was. If you do, vote in the poll. We've got it going on throughout the show. patreon.com/dtns.
Speaker 1:
[16:19] All right. The big news of the week. Apple's got a new CEO coming into the job September 1st. Tim Cook still CEO for now. He will still be CEO during WWDC in June. But September 1st, just in time for new fall announcements, John Ternus, the current hardware chief, will take the reins. Tim Cook will stick around, Reed Hastings style, as executive chairman on the board of directors. So what do we think of the succession plan? There's been a lot written about, is this the right move and what will the legacy be? But what do you think about the way they handed things over?
Speaker 4:
[17:01] Well, they've been talking about this. This is a secret that nobody really was holding. We knew that he was gonna step down. Now, if I'm honest, I thought that he would have said that I wanna see one more release of the iPhone and then I'll make my exit. But it's like, look, I wanna do it at WWDC. That kinda makes sense as well. So here's where we are. I think he is kinda doing the Reed Hastings thing. It's like, I'm not leaving, leaving. I'm just not running the day to day anymore. I'll be the chairman of the board. You know my number. If you need to get to me, you can. If something crazy happens, I'm here. We've seen where people have moved to the board and then moved back. I'm not predicting that. I'm just saying we've seen that happen before. So he's around. But once again, it's not necessarily a spring chicken either. It's like someone that is getting up there in their later years and probably just wants to stop running one of the largest companies on the board.
Speaker 3:
[17:55] And Tim Cook, for 15 years, has objectively put Apple in a really great financial place.
Speaker 1:
[18:04] Name one thing besides the fact that on average, the company has made $67 billion a day since he took over, that he has done for Apple.
Speaker 3:
[18:16] So, here's actually my... And this is just sort of inside baseball stuff. Okay, so John Ternus takes over officially on September 1st.
Speaker 1:
[18:27] Right?
Speaker 3:
[18:27] So we're going to have WWDC. Maybe they'll talk about that. I doubt it, but it's known, it's out there, it's news. Apple has officially announced it.
Speaker 1:
[18:38] Yeah. I feel like they'll acknowledge it, but not dwell on it, not spend a lot of time.
Speaker 3:
[18:43] What happens in September? Because I can see Tim still kind of being like, I'm running this keynote and then handing the reins over.
Speaker 2:
[18:55] One more thing.
Speaker 1:
[18:55] Like they do their announcement on September 1st or something?
Speaker 3:
[18:58] They should do it that way. But I don't know. I just, it feels like whatever they are announcing and I'm hoping for that foldable, I'm hoping for it, and I think we're going to get it. Obviously, Tim Cook has had his hands on this for years, of course. So for him to not be part of that, I don't know. I'm very curious to see how they handle this.
Speaker 1:
[19:23] I have an idea. So the September 1st, John Ternus takes over. Let's say, because they quite often have an Apple announcement that first week or second week in September, right? So let's say September 1st, John Ternus takes over. The first Apple announcement is, I don't know, September 8th. I don't know if that's a Tuesday, but whatever. They start the announcement with Tim and John doing a skit, because Apple loves doing their pre-recorded skits. I'll leave it to the imagination of y'all to figure out what it is. But it's like-
Speaker 3:
[19:55] What kind of skit would it be though?
Speaker 1:
[19:58] It's like, hey John, what are you doing here? John, this is your first time doing a keynote as CEO. I've got some tips for you. I don't know. Craig Federighi parkours in and hands him a baton, something.
Speaker 4:
[20:12] I can see them doing a George Clooney Brad Pitt, Ocean's 11 to where, make sure you've got batteries in your clicker when you're doing your slides.
Speaker 3:
[20:20] Oh, thanks Tim. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[20:22] Something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[20:24] Here's what I'm thinking is going to happen. I think that they announced it, it's September 1st. He will step down on September 1st. You'll probably still be around in September. But I think that this will be the opportunity that when we have WWDC and he is on stage, he will get the thunderous applause. That will be like his farewell tour that Hall of Fame basketball players get when they get ready to retire from.
Speaker 1:
[20:49] Yeah. Tim Cook will come back on stage at the end of the WWDC opening keynote and say, I just have a few last words to say and thunderous applause like you say, and that'll be the poignant goodbye moment. Yeah. Laminar Rainbow says Apple's humanoid robot will carry John Ternus on stage.
Speaker 3:
[21:09] And then maybe in September, yeah, maybe Tim Cook doesn't actually open it, but he's part of it in some... Like you said, Tom, some sort of a skit where it's like, hey, Tim, what are you doing? He's like, I'm just chilling. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[21:27] I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 3:
[21:29] You know, the new Apple Vision Pro that may or may not ever come out.
Speaker 1:
[21:33] Yeah. Well, because as executive chairman, they said that he's going to continue to work on, you know, worldwide relations. I can't remember exactly how they phrased it, but it's pretty clear that he's gonna still go to China and meet with Xi Jinping. He might still go to the White House to meet with the president. Like he is going to do that kind of stuff. He's gonna be active for Apple, just not in the day to day.
Speaker 3:
[21:58] And we've seen this with a lot of other executive chairman situations before, where they're still pretty hands on as far as the company goes. Just handing off the reins to a lot of day to day stuff to somebody else.
Speaker 4:
[22:12] Now here's a question for you guys. John Ternus has taken over. John Ternus is a hardware guy. And we are in the era of AI, maybe not Apple. So is there anything to read into the fact that the new person is a hardware guy and not necessarily an AI guy or software person or whatever you want to call it?
Speaker 2:
[22:35] It's interesting because I see a lot of Tim Cook's fingerprints over like the Apple silicon and the design of the new Macbooks. Because it's very much of the supply chain and then making everything as cost effective as possible. Because if you look at the way that the Macbooks are designed, one of the things you get rid of when you get away from a lot of the internal expansion is you get to slim down your footprint on what you need to bring in to make a lot of this stuff. You don't have to suddenly keep on hand a huge amount of say like expansion boards or anything like that. You slim it down and if you actually take a Macbook apart, the board is really tiny. And so to me, that just sort of like that played to Tim Cook's strength of navigating those parts of the supply chain that most effectively brings together the stuff that the consumers want, but also doesn't leave Apple with a huge inventory that they're just paying rent on for stuff. I think with Ternus, you'll probably see more advances in both silicon, but also I think maybe in software as well.
Speaker 1:
[23:50] But why? He's the hardware guy, right? All the stuff you said about that you were crediting Cook with, which I think you're right, a lot of that supply chain stuff magic definitely comes from him. Ternus was overseeing that, and so was Johnny Suruji, who's now the head of hardware in Ternus' place. It's going back to Robb's question, what will Ternus do with software?
Speaker 3:
[24:15] I think he leans on the people who do software well at Apple.
Speaker 2:
[24:20] I think at some point that I think this is where we see that sort of grand, like that grand overarching OS that covers both the iOS devices.
Speaker 1:
[24:32] That's what they've been doing, right? Yeah, continuing to try to make it. You'll see that actual like, but what about AI? That's what everybody wants to know. The people who are most negative about Apple blame Tim Cook for letting Apple fall behind in AI. They don't buy it when Apple says, no, no, no, we ship products, not technologies. The reason we haven't done AI is because AI isn't ready yet. They think that's just an excuse for falling behind. And they look at John Ternus and they're like, this guy's kind of an AI skeptic, maybe not skeptic, but he's not the most AI forward guy from what we've heard. And he's a hardware guy. Why are you putting him in charge?
Speaker 4:
[25:13] Yeah, that's what my thought was. It's, you know, we try to read these tealies. Is this one of them? Is this telling you that, hey, Apple is a marketing company that sells really, really good hardware? That's what we've been. That's where we're going to continue to be. I don't see that really changing with the leadership. It would have said something if they would have gone out and gotten someone who is like one of the foremost people in AI to do this, or they would have even got someone internally who was like hitting up all the AI stuff that they're doing. But they didn't do that. They went with the hardware guy, clearly the hardware guy. So is there a key for us to read based on that?
Speaker 2:
[25:52] I'll say this much, Apple lives and dies on its hardware. If you stripped away all the Apple hardware and you just left the Apple services or whatever, it's not that remarkable. But it's really...
Speaker 1:
[26:04] But that has been the growing emphasis of Apple. They've been slow motion pivoting to services for 15 years. And services are bringing in more and more money. It is one of the fastest growing parts of the business. So bringing in a hardware guy tells me, you don't see services as the future of Apple. You see services as a continuing way to sell hardware.
Speaker 4:
[26:30] I see it as, they're not going to be a big player in AI beyond what you can do inside the iPhone, inside of a Mac. I just don't see AI, I don't see them being where Microsoft is, definitely not where Google, OpenAI, Anthropic are from an AI standpoint. I think it's, I don't want to say it's an afterthought. But I do believe that Apple missed the AI boat. I think that they missed it, they tried, but they fundamentally missed it. And I just think that they're so far behind, I don't know that they can catch up. And because of how good they are with the hardware and now starting to get with the services, maybe they don't have to be. Maybe they can just license this stuff out.
Speaker 2:
[27:11] I'm wondering if they even need to be in that same sort of tent, right? Like to be a Microsoft where you have an obvious hand in it. Like, I mean, remember when everyone used to talk about Apple's going to do search? They're going to do a search engine, do all this. It's like, I mean, it's already done.
Speaker 1:
[27:30] They looked into it too, and they were like, yeah, it's not worth it. We can just rent search and it's fine.
Speaker 2:
[27:35] Exactly. And we're still at the period where there isn't like a Sherb winner. Like, this is the company that's going to just override everyone else. It's still pretty churning.
Speaker 1:
[27:49] It's more of a horse race now than ever, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[27:51] And so they could just be like, you know, why jump into it now when everything's still up in the air? And we'll just kind of figure out as the players get whittled down, so to speak.
Speaker 1:
[28:02] It's worth noting too that OpenAI hired Johnny Ive, the former Apple hardware designer, because they see one of the parts of the business they want to grow as hardware, as putting OpenAI in hardware. And it may make sense that Apple goes, well, if that's where OpenAI is going, we're already there, let's just double down on that.
Speaker 4:
[28:24] That makes sense, because unless there's some new Neuralink stuff that we don't know coming out, to where you can put a chip in your head, you still need a physical piece of hardware to interface with artificial intelligence. Whether you wear it on your face, whether you have it behind your ear, whether it's in your pocket, something physical is required even for the AI play when it's on you.
Speaker 2:
[28:48] You're right, you cannot do anything else without it, and Apple just has that lily pad that everyone wants to be on.
Speaker 1:
[28:57] The mistake will be if this is like an operating system, which a lot of people think it is, where your AI platform is your operating system, and then Apple starts to depend too much on another company. That's why you have Mac OS because they want to control the stack. If it's more like an office suite though, then this does feel more like the moment they put Bill Gates on stage and said, yeah, Microsoft Office is coming to the Mac, and it didn't end up being something that killed Apple. And so having Google do AI for you could kind of feel that way, like, oh, we lost to Google, but maybe it doesn't. It's just too early to know which way that's gonna go.
Speaker 4:
[29:37] Yeah, and I don't see, no matter what OpenAI does with hardware, they're not catching Apple anytime soon. Google's not catching Apple anytime soon. Microsoft is different in the way, their relationship with all the OEMs that they work with, and they're already in front of Apple from just how much stuff they get shipped that has Microsoft software on it. But Apple is unique in the sense that their hardware is what they're known for, even though they're trying to do all these other things. So I'm just wondering, they're saying, can we just put a hardware person in charge of the company, and let's just keep doing hardware really well, better than what most other companies are able to do it.
Speaker 1:
[30:19] Yeah. Willie Scott pointed out, the neural processing unit that executes your inferencing in a Mac are phenomenal. So maybe that ends up being more important.
Speaker 2:
[30:31] It ties in with their security focus, which is have it on device.
Speaker 1:
[30:34] Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2:
[30:36] So I could conceivably have a split sort of AI, where you have AI services like Gemini, like a ChatGPT as a separate standalone thing, outside of their integrated one, just for their hardware devices.
Speaker 1:
[30:52] Last question before we move on. Do we think John Ternus is for good and all? Some people have interpreted the fact that Tim Cook is sticking around as like you're on a trial basis, and we could Bob Iger this and bring Tim back like Robb was mentioning earlier, or we might even have somebody else in the wings that if John doesn't do well, we can swap in somebody else.
Speaker 3:
[31:15] I mean, that's very not Apple.
Speaker 1:
[31:17] Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:
[31:18] To be like, let's just like make it crazy and see what happens. I think that the company, because these rumors have been going around for a while, like Tim may not be here for the long haul. Not that he hasn't already been, but just there's probably been some whispers of him figuring out like, okay, who's my successor? I don't think Apple takes this lightly. I think that they think that Ternus is the right guy for the job. If he isn't, obviously, we'll hear about that. But no, I don't think this is meant to be some sort of soap opera type thing.
Speaker 1:
[31:58] Yeah, I don't think it's a FAFO situation where they're just like, give it to Ternus. If anything, they probably do have a backup plan. That is very Apple to be like, well, we think it's going to be fine.
Speaker 4:
[32:09] But if it isn't, that's one of the reasons why he's still there as chairman of the board. So I think part of this too is that you've got Tim Cook, he calls his account and says, so how many dump trucks of gold bullion do I have out back? 13, 13 whole dump tucks. Okay, I think I'm good. Let's do something different. I think that is a part of it. So it's not like he messed up and Apple is saying, you got to go be the board and run everything at this point. Without saying that, I think he's saying, hey, we need to figure out who's going to replace me. I think this is the person and I'm going to slide over here. I'll be here for a few years like he'll do the read Hastings. I'll be here for a while in case crazy stuff happens.
Speaker 3:
[32:49] I'm the mentor.
Speaker 4:
[32:50] You need to get back to me for whatever reason, but yeah, I got 13 dump trucks of gold bullion out back.
Speaker 2:
[32:56] I'm good. Honestly, he's been the face. He's been the face of Apple for good or for ill, and he just could be taking one for the team because I'm sure running Apple through a very tumultuous period might just lead to a lot of criticism. He could just soak that up in clearing the board for John to take over, and just have like, okay, that was his deal. I'm running it. I don't know. Part of me wants to say he just wanted to leave. He also wanted to clear the air around Apple because of certain things that have happened, whether you're talking about the Apple Vision Pro, or whatever happened to the Apple car. You know what I mean? Those are his mistakes. There's a new guy, keep the investors happy that Cook is still around just in case things start to fall off the rails. He's there to push it back, but to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.
Speaker 3:
[33:56] The Apple car was also much more of a rumor than a reality ever.
Speaker 1:
[34:00] Yeah. It was a thing they spent a lot of money researching, but yeah.
Speaker 3:
[34:04] Sure. Yeah. That's it. I think John Ternus taking the reins is weird for certain people because they're not that familiar with him, but it doesn't mean that he isn't really, really capable for the job.
Speaker 1:
[34:22] No.
Speaker 3:
[34:23] I see a lot of other front-facing executives at Apple over the years. So you go like, oh, why isn't it Federighi? It's like, well, some people are just better for this role than others.
Speaker 4:
[34:35] Yeah. I don't think Apple spun the prices right big wheel with names. It just landed on John Ternus. They said, okay, that's what we're going with. I don't think that was the decision matrix.
Speaker 2:
[34:47] When you're at that position, it's not just running the company. It's dealing with the relationships of the company, whether you're talking about relationships with other companies, or with governments, or politicians, you know what I mean? There's a lot of other skill sets other than...
Speaker 1:
[35:03] Parkouring in your video.
Speaker 2:
[35:05] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[35:06] Not that there's anything wrong with parkouring in your video.
Speaker 2:
[35:08] No, there's nothing wrong. Hey, if you can do it at his age, if I could do it right now...
Speaker 1:
[35:13] That was a stunt guy, so I don't even think Federico could do it at his age. But yeah, no, I think, like Sarah was saying earlier, they've been hinting in the press, they've been leaking things to the press for years that this was coming. This is a well-considered, long in the making plan. So I don't think there's anything off the cuff about this or panicked or anything like that.
Speaker 4:
[35:39] I wouldn't be shocked at all if they knew last year. They knew last year at WWCA, dude, you're up next. They probably knew.
Speaker 1:
[35:48] They've been putting Ternus out for these in-depth interviews with the Wall Street Journal and stuff over the past year. So it's pretty clear in hindsight.
Speaker 2:
[35:55] Or John could have been the one that Ternused up at the meeting and they picked him. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
[36:01] It was a good effort. It was a good effort. I like the work you put into it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[36:06] Very salacious.
Speaker 1:
[36:07] Keep at it. Let's talk something not Apple. The opposite of Apple. Framework has made a more solid version of its modular laptop. In fact, they're billing it as the MacBook Pro for Linux users. Has a bigger battery, has a touchscreen, starts at $1,199 for the DIY version. A little more expensive if you want the one that comes pre-done with Windows or Ubuntu. But people are raving about it. Certainly, Framework fans are raving about it. It's the most solid build that they've had yet. And a lot of people are saying this is something that people can just pick up and go if you don't get the DIY version and start using Linux. Or you could get it with Windows, but now you've got a modular laptop. You don't have to replace it. You just keep ship of Theseus style, pulling out parts and modules as you need them. Do we think this is what kicks modular computing and maybe even Linux into the mainstream?
Speaker 3:
[37:07] Robb, this was something I really wanted to get your take on, because I know you're a Windows guy. But would you go Windows or Linux if you're going framework?
Speaker 4:
[37:16] I'd go Windows just because I know Linux well. Have used it. When I was back in corporate, we had software that it ran on Linux. So I'm very familiar with it. I just happen to like Windows more. The other part of your question, do I think this pushes Linux into the main sphere? No, it does not. Not even close. And I think we have to think about how this is going to be used. I can't imagine that you're going to have a Oracle that's saying, hey, go buy 30,000 of these. Or you're going to have an IBM says, go buy 240,000 of these. Or you're going to have Amazon say, you know what, we need 77,000 of these. I don't think that that's where this play is. This is for the enthusiasts who are small in number, but very loud in voice, who are saying, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They don't amount to the millions. They don't even amount to the hundreds of thousands. It is the tens of thousands of them that are screaming at the top of their lungs that this is the greatest thing we've seen in some time.
Speaker 1:
[38:24] Yeah, I think that is a really good point to keep in mind, that you are not going to see them compete with Dell or Lenovo or HP in sales, because there might be some enterprises that go framework. I look forward to that story. That would be great news for framework, but it's not going to be a lot. I think you're right. We're not going to see massive sales. So that means this is a consumer-oriented laptop. And consumer may be the wrong word, because it is for developers and professionals and people, but it's an individual, right? You're not buying them for a whole enterprise. That doesn't mean framework can't make a good business out of it, though.
Speaker 2:
[39:08] I think it definitely can make a business out of it. I mean, they are. And it is definitely a tinker's product. It's for those people who bought the Linksys routers, the WRTs, the words, that allowed you to put your own custom firmware on them. And they sold it to a very niche market of people who really wanted that. I think that the biggest market share this will take away from is the kind of gray market, white box, laptop resellers who sell basically bare bones laptops. And then when you order it, you say, I want this CPU, I want this screen, I want a 4K screen, I want this GPU, I want this sort of expandability. You can pick and choose. You don't really screw it together yourself. You just build to order.
Speaker 3:
[40:02] But you can do that with lots of laptops already.
Speaker 2:
[40:04] Well, the difference is that they sell basically what are considered to be workstation laptops, so there's more space. So you can do like, I want four NVMe slots in this machine, I want this size battery in it, I want this keyboard, and especially the screen. Most notebooks don't allow you to replace the screen without moving to the next one. You can pick and choose what kind of screen you want. The guy at the other end will look at it, and then he'll just screw it together, and then send it off to you. This cuts that part out, because then you can just essentially buy all those pieces from Framework when they make it available to you. That way, you don't necessarily have to sit with an orphan machine that no one else has, because you just bought the weird Aardvark that has a 4K OLED screen with the 3N VME slots. But instead of going for a high-end AMD, you would go for a high-end Dental and then a specific GPU combo with it. That takes a lot of time and a lot of research on a user's part. This simplifies that whole process and cuts that out.
Speaker 1:
[41:14] I don't know if I agree with you that this is for tinkerers anymore. This gets the benefit of being a tinkerer without having to be a tinkerer, because this modularity is so easy.
Speaker 2:
[41:25] Oh, yeah, no, definitely. But for most people who use laptops, is that really what you do? Or you just do your office emails, you do your accounting software or whatever, and you call it a day and you close the lid?
Speaker 1:
[41:38] Yeah, there's some name for the people between like, I don't want to have to tinker, that's too much time, but I do want to customize. Because you're right, the person who just wants a laptop for doing their work and their emails isn't going to care about swapping out main boards and that. But there's also people who are like, yeah, I would like to be able to upgrade that. I would like to add more RAM more easily, or a new hard drive or customize. But I don't want to do it, I don't want to have to go to the trouble to do it iFixit style, right? And that's what Framework is targeting, is like, hey, a couple of screws for a couple of things, but a lot of stuff, you just pop it in and out. It's super easy.
Speaker 3:
[42:24] Yeah, I know a couple of people. I'm sorry, Rob, go ahead.
Speaker 4:
[42:27] I just want to say, I think that the big hardware manufacturers are fine to let this company do this. They're like, you go ahead and take that. And if you get any traction, just understand that we'll start doing it if we think that there's a market there for it. So how do I think this could play? It'll be that you can now get a Dell XPS that you can replace the RAM in it, you can replace the hard drive in it. That's probably about the extent of it. It's not going to be much more than that.
Speaker 2:
[42:55] But they'll make that easier.
Speaker 1:
[42:56] You could already do that.
Speaker 2:
[42:57] All those companies already sell laptops that do that, but they sell them to institutions. Again, these are workstation laptops. They sell them to corporate customers who have labs, who have...
Speaker 1:
[43:08] But you still have to unscrew, right? I think we're undervaluing how easy Framework has made it.
Speaker 2:
[43:13] Oh, no, no, no. And that's what I'm saying. I have a workstation laptop. I can pop the bottom off. I can take out the CPU, the GPU. Once I spend four hours taking the cooler, the fans off, the whole thing. And it's a very complicated, but I can also change the screen and the keyboard. I can do all that. It's designed for that. It's just a very time consuming. You're supposed to let the department IT take care of that, not the guy who gets it.
Speaker 3:
[43:38] Well, and I don't think that this is marketed for people who are like, I don't know how to use a screwdriver. It's people who say, I don't want to do that. I know how to do it. I know the components that I need. I know what I would want to upgrade in the future. And I guess my question is, is the promise of upgradable stuff in the future a good investment?
Speaker 2:
[44:02] It will be a good investment on a certain segment of the market in the same way that there are people who will buy a camera with interchangeable lenses and there are other people who say, hey, my phone has a great camera. I'm going to stick with that.
Speaker 1:
[44:14] One big advantage is the framework is saying they secured their RAM supply because they're big enough now that they were able to go and say, all right, we think we need this much RAM, so it might be worth doing a framework laptop just for that.
Speaker 2:
[44:31] I mean, that was very fascinating because it was also timing. They said if we had waited just a little bit longer, we would have been able to get our foot in.
Speaker 4:
[44:37] Now, here's the question. How much RAM did they secure? They secured enough for them. Enough RAM for them is like that's how much Dell needs Thursday.
Speaker 1:
[44:49] Yeah. Don't get too popular framework.
Speaker 3:
[44:52] Right. Framework is like we are good on RAM. Buy our product.
Speaker 1:
[44:58] We don't want too many people to take advantage of that. Yeah. We're still niche.
Speaker 3:
[45:03] We're still niche. Well, depending on whether or not you're thinking of getting a modular laptop or you're like, not for me. You might be an 8-bit computer fan. Many people out there are ourselves included and wondering if that Commodore 64 Ultimate is the right machine for you or maybe you're saying, what is that even? Well, Tom and Brian Dunaway joined me on our latest episode of Live With It to share their experiences with this very nostalgic machine on this week's episode. It was really fun to do. Brian Dunaway, thank you so much for being with us. He made it all that much sweeter because he was very excited about it. Find it at youtube.com/dailytechnewsshow.
Speaker 1:
[45:52] All right. Let's finish our weekly roundtable with a little game time. Roger, what you got?
Speaker 2:
[45:59] Well, riddles. I was watching, no, I wasn't watching old Adam West Batman where he was fighting the Riddler. Riddles are great though. They trigger a feel good dopamine hit and satisfy our urge to solve problems and give us bragging rights the next time we're down at the local watering hole for trivia night. So in that vein, here's some riddles that I found. I didn't come up with them, but I found that would even leave the Sphinx perplexed. I wanted to make sure they weren't too easy, but also not too hard.
Speaker 1:
[46:29] I was going to say, do you think of riddles, does everybody else think of riddles as a dopamine hit? Because I think of them as incredibly frustrating sometimes.
Speaker 2:
[46:37] When you figure it out, it's great.
Speaker 1:
[46:39] Yeah, I guess you're the kind of person who regularly figures them out.
Speaker 3:
[46:43] I don't know what that meant.
Speaker 2:
[46:44] All right, all right. Maybe I'm just...
Speaker 3:
[46:46] Okay, so...
Speaker 1:
[46:47] That's a dopamine hit right there. Laminar Rainbow just gave us a $5 super sticker.
Speaker 3:
[46:52] That is a dopamine hit.
Speaker 4:
[46:53] Because Laminar Rainbow is awesome.
Speaker 1:
[46:55] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[46:56] So did we just shout out if we know the answer and...
Speaker 2:
[47:00] Yeah, just raise your hand and say, my answer is this.
Speaker 4:
[47:02] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[47:03] All right. Question, a riddle one. You're in a race and you pass the person in second place. What place are you in?
Speaker 4:
[47:12] I know.
Speaker 6:
[47:14] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[47:15] Roger, if you're gonna ask people to raise their hand, you have to call on somebody.
Speaker 2:
[47:18] Sarah, I thought I was waiting for Sarah. You go.
Speaker 3:
[47:22] I'm in second place.
Speaker 2:
[47:24] Robb?
Speaker 4:
[47:25] Second place.
Speaker 2:
[47:27] Tom, Len.
Speaker 3:
[47:28] Because we're in a race, you pass the person in second place, but you didn't pass the person in first place, so you're in second place.
Speaker 2:
[47:36] That's good.
Speaker 4:
[47:37] Tricky.
Speaker 3:
[47:39] Yay. I think Robb and I, we both get points for that. We did hands. As requested.
Speaker 2:
[47:47] Yes. Thank you. Riddle two, a woman gives birth to two sons on the same day, same year, same parents, but they are not twins. How?
Speaker 6:
[48:00] Two sons.
Speaker 3:
[48:02] I know.
Speaker 1:
[48:02] When you say S-O-N, right? Not S-U-N.
Speaker 2:
[48:06] S-O-N.
Speaker 3:
[48:07] When you say same parents, it's her and her-
Speaker 2:
[48:12] The same spouse.
Speaker 3:
[48:13] And the father. Robb knows.
Speaker 4:
[48:16] They did in vitro.
Speaker 6:
[48:21] Really?
Speaker 2:
[48:21] No. A woman gives birth to two sons on the same day, the same year, same parents, but they are not twins.
Speaker 1:
[48:29] I mean, in vitro would be a way to do that. You just put in two different embryos.
Speaker 4:
[48:35] Two eggs. They would be twins.
Speaker 1:
[48:37] Technically, he's right.
Speaker 3:
[48:38] These are riddles, after all, so they're supposed to throw us off. I don't get-
Speaker 2:
[48:42] Remember, a lot of riddles are the wording. They are not twins.
Speaker 4:
[48:45] Well, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[48:45] A woman gives birth to two sons, same day, same year. Same year.
Speaker 4:
[48:51] But they are not twins.
Speaker 1:
[48:52] So they were both Monday on two different months?
Speaker 2:
[48:55] They are not twins.
Speaker 1:
[48:59] That wasn't what I was asking.
Speaker 4:
[49:02] A woman gives birth to two sons on the same day.
Speaker 3:
[49:04] Same day, same year, same parents. The same parents thing sounds weird to me. Because is the woman-
Speaker 2:
[49:11] I just wanted to make sure that they're the same people. The father and the mother are the same for both kids.
Speaker 3:
[49:18] For both?
Speaker 2:
[49:19] Yes.
Speaker 3:
[49:20] Same day, same year. Same day, same year. Is it like a leap day thing?
Speaker 2:
[49:24] I know.
Speaker 3:
[49:25] I got it.
Speaker 2:
[49:26] Or Robb.
Speaker 4:
[49:27] It's the doctor. No, she didn't give birth. She just birthed.
Speaker 1:
[49:34] She birthed them.
Speaker 4:
[49:35] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[49:36] Wrong? Really?
Speaker 3:
[49:38] Oh, well, no.
Speaker 1:
[49:39] Are you going to tell us? Is that right or wrong?
Speaker 2:
[49:41] Okay. Okay. So the answer is based, they're triplets because they're not twins.
Speaker 6:
[49:46] Oh, come on.
Speaker 3:
[49:47] Oh, come on.
Speaker 4:
[49:49] You know what?
Speaker 6:
[49:52] I give this one to Robb.
Speaker 1:
[49:54] Not give us the final answer.
Speaker 3:
[49:56] I love Robb's like, it was the doctor.
Speaker 1:
[50:00] And Roger just looked at him. I'm like, is that correct?
Speaker 3:
[50:03] That actually is a very good guess. So, okay, so the third was a daughter.
Speaker 1:
[50:08] There were triplets. They could have been quadruplets and it would have been the same.
Speaker 2:
[50:11] Yes, quadruplets. I would have had quadruplets.
Speaker 1:
[50:13] Riddle me nice. Because it could be not twins.
Speaker 2:
[50:16] All right.
Speaker 1:
[50:17] That brings up a semantic question though. If there are triplets and you're looking at two of them, do you call those two twins? Because if you call them triplets, you're only looking at two of them.
Speaker 4:
[50:26] So here's the real thing. My father-in-law who I'm visiting today is a triplet. One of his brothers is an identical trend. The other one is a fraternal twin. This would have met the criteria for this riddle.
Speaker 6:
[50:38] Oh, so he just told the future.
Speaker 3:
[50:39] I didn't know triplets could ever be anything but fraternal.
Speaker 1:
[50:44] So there are twins in that triplet, but only two of them are twins. Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 4:
[50:51] Two of them are twins. They're all triplets, but only two of them are identical twins.
Speaker 1:
[50:54] That's crazy.
Speaker 3:
[50:55] And the third is a man or a woman.
Speaker 1:
[50:58] Fraternal, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[50:59] Yeah, there's three boys, two are identical, one isn't.
Speaker 1:
[51:03] It would have been even weirder if it was, yeah, because you can be fraternal and be male and female.
Speaker 3:
[51:08] Well, you have to be. You can't be identical and male and female.
Speaker 2:
[51:15] Riddle three, you're in a room with two doors, and this is a very popular one. One leads to freedom, one leads to death. Two guards stand there, one always lies, one always tells the truth. You may ask only one question. What do you ask, Len?
Speaker 6:
[51:29] I know. You ask the person who lies, I want to go through the room to death. He can't, he'll lie and say, this is the room, so you know that the other one is freedom.
Speaker 3:
[51:44] Oh, see, I was thinking the opposite. I was thinking you ask the one that always tells the truth.
Speaker 1:
[51:48] But you don't know which one is which.
Speaker 2:
[51:50] But you don't know which one tells the lie and which one tells the truth.
Speaker 3:
[51:53] Oh, I thought you did.
Speaker 1:
[51:55] You just, there are two guards. You know one of them always lies and you know one of them always tells the truth, but you don't know which guard is which.
Speaker 3:
[52:02] So I would ask the guard that tells the truth.
Speaker 2:
[52:07] You don't know which guard is the one that tells the truth.
Speaker 1:
[52:12] And you can only ask one question.
Speaker 4:
[52:14] What question are you going to ask to either of the guards?
Speaker 2:
[52:17] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[52:18] And you're getting an answer from both guards, right? But you only get to ask one question.
Speaker 2:
[52:22] You get one question that you can ask to either one. What's the one question you would ask to give you the answer?
Speaker 6:
[52:28] Am I on the right track where you're asking the question, which door is the door to death?
Speaker 4:
[52:34] Yes. You're on the right track. That is the answer.
Speaker 2:
[52:36] That is the right track. It's incomplete.
Speaker 6:
[52:38] That's the question you ask.
Speaker 3:
[52:40] Robb, do you already know the answer to this?
Speaker 4:
[52:42] Yes. But I'm going to give it to Len because Len said it first.
Speaker 3:
[52:45] Okay.
Speaker 6:
[52:46] So you ask the question, which door leads to death?
Speaker 2:
[52:55] That's part of it, yes.
Speaker 1:
[52:56] If you say which door leads to death, the person lying will point to the other door, and the person telling the truth will point to the other door. So they both point to different doors, and you don't know which one of them is telling the truth.
Speaker 6:
[53:08] We don't know which one. Okay.
Speaker 4:
[53:10] So you go to one of the people, because you can only ask one question. Does this door leads to death? If the answer is true, and the person that you asked tells you the truth, then they'll tell you yes, it does. If the answer is no, it does not, the person who is lying to you will tell you that no, it does not. So either way, if you ask what door leads to death, you'll get the right answer.
Speaker 2:
[53:36] Close. Very close. You're very close, Rob.
Speaker 3:
[53:39] How do you get the right answer with the liar though?
Speaker 2:
[53:42] So, okay, Tom, Sarah, you have nothing, you don't want to put in an answer.
Speaker 3:
[53:49] I mean, I'm trying to add something.
Speaker 1:
[53:51] We'll give you an answer if we have one, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[53:53] Okay. All right.
Speaker 3:
[53:56] I feel like maybe there's a twist here where you have to have-
Speaker 2:
[54:02] Rob and Len are very close. You ask one question to one of the guards, what would you ask them if you were, if you wanted to answer it and kind of basically get both their answers from one question?
Speaker 3:
[54:18] What if you ask the liar, are you going to go through this door?
Speaker 4:
[54:23] You don't know which one is the liar, so I literally go to whichever one I feel like asking and say, does your door lead to death? I'll either get, yes, it does or no, it doesn't, but both of those tell me information that I now know which door I want to go through.
Speaker 1:
[54:36] How do you know though? Because if I ask the liar, but you don't know whether it's the liar or not.
Speaker 3:
[54:43] Yeah, it's like Princess Bride stuff.
Speaker 2:
[54:45] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[54:46] But if I ask the guy that's telling the truth, does your door lead to death? He'll say yes because he's telling the truth. If I ask the liar, does your door lead to death? He'll say no because he's lying.
Speaker 1:
[54:57] But you don't know which one's the liar and which one's the liar.
Speaker 4:
[55:00] Right, but it doesn't matter. I still know the answer.
Speaker 2:
[55:04] There's two doors, just remember. So it's, no, but this is the thing, Robb. You're very close. You're very close.
Speaker 3:
[55:10] What if both of the guards are identical twins?
Speaker 1:
[55:13] What if you try to hire the guards away?
Speaker 3:
[55:16] I don't know who the liar is.
Speaker 2:
[55:19] This is like one of the old ones that they used to give out in those weird like.
Speaker 3:
[55:23] I don't know. You know what?
Speaker 2:
[55:24] This is like Twister.
Speaker 4:
[55:25] Why don't you tell us the answer? Because I don't think we're supposed to.
Speaker 2:
[55:28] The answer is this. You ask the guard, if you were the other guard, which door would you pick to go? Which door would you pick that would lead to freedom? You would pick the opposite door. If it was the honest guard that you ask, he would tell you which door the lying guard would give you to pick, and you would choose the opposite door. If you go to the lying guard, he's going to lie and give you the answer that's opposite of what the honest guard would give you, so you pick the opposite of his answer, so you would always get out.
Speaker 4:
[56:05] You've added additional steps that aren't necessary there. If I go to the guard, it doesn't matter which guard I go to. If I ask a guard, does your door lead to death? If it does and the person is truthful, they will say, yes, it does.
Speaker 3:
[56:19] But you don't know if he's truthful or not. They might be the liars.
Speaker 1:
[56:23] You have to know whether the guard you're talking to is a truth teller or not.
Speaker 6:
[56:28] Roger, what is the question you're asking again?
Speaker 2:
[56:31] You're in a room. I'm going to move on to Riddle 4.
Speaker 6:
[56:37] What's the question you're asking to one of these?
Speaker 3:
[56:40] We've already solved it.
Speaker 1:
[56:43] You go up to either of the guards and you say, if you were the other guard, which door would you say goes to freedom? And then you will go through the opposite of whatever that guard says. And the reason that works is the liar is going to lie and say, oh, that guard would point to the death door, which he would not. If it's the truth, then the truth teller will go, oh, well, that guard would point to the death door because he's a liar. And so whatever one they point to is the death door, meaning you need to go it through the other door.
Speaker 6:
[57:18] I'd be dead.
Speaker 1:
[57:19] I'd be dead.
Speaker 6:
[57:20] I remember it.
Speaker 1:
[57:21] Give us another super stinger thanks to all of that.
Speaker 6:
[57:25] I love it.
Speaker 2:
[57:25] All right. So all right. Riddle number four. This one will be fun. You see a boat full of people, yet when you reach it, you find there's not a single person on board. How?
Speaker 1:
[57:35] They all got off the mirage.
Speaker 3:
[57:36] How are you reaching it?
Speaker 2:
[57:38] Wait. Wait. What did Sarah say?
Speaker 3:
[57:40] How are you reaching the boat?
Speaker 2:
[57:43] That's not important.
Speaker 3:
[57:44] Do you see a boat full of people?
Speaker 5:
[57:45] It's a mirage.
Speaker 1:
[57:47] By the time you get there, everybody got off.
Speaker 2:
[57:50] You see a boat full of people, yet when you reach it, there's not a single person on board.
Speaker 1:
[57:56] Oh, it's still full of people. They're all married. There's not just a person.
Speaker 6:
[57:59] They're all married.
Speaker 3:
[58:00] They're all married.
Speaker 1:
[58:04] Man, that's... That skates close to the line.
Speaker 3:
[58:08] So who do I ask about the door? Wait a second. How far away am I from the boat? You know, let's think Titanic.
Speaker 6:
[58:14] Which one of these guys on the boat is lying? How many of these people are triplets?
Speaker 3:
[58:17] Yeah.
Speaker 6:
[58:18] You know, that last question, the question about the doors was actually in a book about Star Trek, and Kirk was asking a lying alien. I don't know. I should remember that one.
Speaker 1:
[58:31] Oh yeah. No, I've heard that one before too, and I could not remember the answer.
Speaker 6:
[58:35] I would die.
Speaker 3:
[58:36] All right, so everybody's married on the boat. Great for you.
Speaker 2:
[58:40] All right.
Speaker 6:
[58:42] Riddell number five. Wow.
Speaker 2:
[58:45] I speak without a mouth and hear without ears. I have no body yet I come alive when called. What am I?
Speaker 6:
[58:52] Speak the wind.
Speaker 2:
[58:54] Speak with very close, Tom, very close.
Speaker 1:
[58:56] This is a sphinx riddle.
Speaker 4:
[58:59] I speak without a mouth.
Speaker 3:
[59:01] I hear without ears. I have no body and I come alive when called. I'm AI.
Speaker 6:
[59:09] Ooh, someone's called.
Speaker 1:
[59:10] Someone came alive when called.
Speaker 6:
[59:12] It's alive. It's a phone. It's Roger's phone.
Speaker 1:
[59:15] It's Roger's phone is the answer.
Speaker 6:
[59:17] It's gotta be.
Speaker 1:
[59:19] Actually. Is he taking a call?
Speaker 6:
[59:20] It does speak without a mouth.
Speaker 1:
[59:21] I thought he was.
Speaker 6:
[59:21] It's speaking.
Speaker 3:
[59:22] This is not a terrible idea.
Speaker 6:
[59:24] Oh, you know what? It's a phone. It's a smartphone.
Speaker 1:
[59:29] No, this is a sphinx riddle. This is really old fashioned.
Speaker 6:
[59:33] Well, it does. It comes alive when called.
Speaker 3:
[59:36] The AI is, I think I should get a point.
Speaker 6:
[59:38] It hears the smartphone hears without ears.
Speaker 2:
[59:41] Tom was on the right track.
Speaker 1:
[59:42] Wind. It's something like that.
Speaker 2:
[59:44] We go very close. When you... With wind? Flatulence. When you, it's something you, it had to deal with canyons. Canyons. I speak without a mouth and I hear. Yes, Tom. An echo.
Speaker 6:
[59:58] Nice.
Speaker 3:
[59:59] Oh, an echo.
Speaker 6:
[60:00] I said smartphone. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:
[60:02] All right, riddle number six. The more of me you take away, the larger I become. What am I?
Speaker 1:
[60:08] A whole.
Speaker 2:
[60:10] Tom got it. Ding, ding, ding.
Speaker 6:
[60:11] Wow, nice. You're gonna get us out of this escape room town.
Speaker 1:
[60:15] Are you gonna get us out of this thing that becomes larger the more we take away from?
Speaker 6:
[60:20] All right.
Speaker 2:
[60:21] Riddle number seven.
Speaker 6:
[60:22] Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:
[60:23] I have towns but no houses. I have mountains but no trees. I have water but no fish. What am I?
Speaker 6:
[60:31] AI.
Speaker 1:
[60:34] That's your answer for everything.
Speaker 3:
[60:36] Well, I mean, it kind of works.
Speaker 6:
[60:37] Smartphone.
Speaker 3:
[60:40] Len's like, it's a smartphone. I have towns but no houses. Mountains but no trees.
Speaker 1:
[60:47] Is it a map?
Speaker 3:
[60:48] Water but no fish.
Speaker 2:
[60:49] Tom got it.
Speaker 6:
[60:50] It's a map.
Speaker 3:
[60:54] You know what? Lots of maps have houses on them. Depends on the map.
Speaker 1:
[60:58] Depends on the map.
Speaker 3:
[60:58] It's a good point. I am...
Speaker 6:
[61:00] And trees.
Speaker 1:
[61:01] Yeah, riddles.
Speaker 3:
[61:02] I'm vetoing question seven.
Speaker 6:
[61:04] Have you seen the map, Tom Mordor?
Speaker 2:
[61:05] Riddle number eight. I am heavy forward but backward I am not. What am I? Me. I am heavy forward but backward I am not.
Speaker 1:
[61:15] What am I? I got a tummy but no butt. Robb, I think you're muted.
Speaker 6:
[61:21] That was what people told about... That's how people described me in high school.
Speaker 1:
[61:25] Heavy forward but backward, you're not.
Speaker 6:
[61:28] No, I was forward but no butt.
Speaker 2:
[61:29] I am heavy forward but backward, you're not.
Speaker 4:
[61:32] No, I'm not.
Speaker 1:
[61:32] I don't think so.
Speaker 4:
[61:34] I was just mouthing the question out, just wording it out if I could actually...
Speaker 2:
[61:39] I am heavy forward but backward, I am not. What am I?
Speaker 3:
[61:44] I don't know. A fish.
Speaker 2:
[61:50] I am heavy forward but backward, I am not.
Speaker 3:
[61:54] Clearly AI.
Speaker 2:
[61:57] A push.
Speaker 4:
[61:58] Hydronium, I don't know.
Speaker 2:
[62:00] I am not. Backward. I am heavy forward but backward, I am not.
Speaker 4:
[62:06] A ton.
Speaker 2:
[62:08] Yes, Robb got it. What is it? It's a ton. A ton. T-O-N.
Speaker 6:
[62:13] A ton.
Speaker 1:
[62:14] Backward, it's not. See, those are the kind of riddles I'm like, that's just a pun. I don't know if that's a riddle.
Speaker 6:
[62:21] That is a riddle.
Speaker 2:
[62:22] No, this is a riddle.
Speaker 1:
[62:23] The solution is a little sus.
Speaker 2:
[62:25] Riddle number nine. A man built a house with all four sides facing south and a bear walks by. What color is the bear most likely to be?
Speaker 4:
[62:34] White.
Speaker 3:
[62:34] You can't have four sides facing south.
Speaker 4:
[62:36] Yes, you can.
Speaker 6:
[62:37] It's a polar bear.
Speaker 2:
[62:39] Polar bear built on the south pole. Robb and Len got it. If you're directly on the north pole, everything is south of you, no matter what side you're on.
Speaker 4:
[62:48] Yeah, whatever direction.
Speaker 6:
[62:49] No one's going to ask you what color the bear is anyway. It'd be like, oh, a black bear.
Speaker 3:
[62:54] Roger just did.
Speaker 6:
[62:56] A brown bear. Gray bear.
Speaker 1:
[62:58] Whatever grizzly of the north pole.
Speaker 3:
[62:59] I was like, wait, you can't have all four sides facing south.
Speaker 1:
[63:02] Yeah, but that was the solution.
Speaker 3:
[63:04] Sorry, I guess everyone's been to the north pole.
Speaker 4:
[63:06] One place in the world where it's possible.
Speaker 6:
[63:08] That's right.
Speaker 2:
[63:09] Okay, the last, riddle number 10. This is the one that came out of a Bazooka Joe comic. I am the beginning of eternity, the end of time and space, the beginning of every end and the end of every place. When am I?
Speaker 6:
[63:24] The letter E.
Speaker 2:
[63:26] See? You read the same Bazooka Joe comic as I did.
Speaker 6:
[63:29] I've spent a lot of time with Bazooka Joe.
Speaker 4:
[63:31] Yes, I actually had that one. I think they only had like a hundred different ones, so you're bound to get all of them.
Speaker 6:
[63:39] Thank you, Bazooka Joe.
Speaker 2:
[63:40] Thank you. No one knows under the age of 45 what a Bazooka Joe is.
Speaker 1:
[63:45] People were telling you, you were wasting your time.
Speaker 3:
[63:46] I knew what that was, but I didn't eat these brittles.
Speaker 4:
[63:50] Oh yeah, these kids, these names, they just didn't know how good we had to be.
Speaker 6:
[63:52] The letter E.
Speaker 4:
[63:53] Bubblegum with the whole comic in the bubblegum. That's right.
Speaker 6:
[63:57] Bazooka Joe taught you something.
Speaker 4:
[63:59] Yeah, that's back when you could buy actual cap guns and they made top trucks out of metal that rusted if you left it out in the rain.
Speaker 6:
[64:05] Those were the days. Those were the days. Those were the days.
Speaker 3:
[64:14] I'm annoyed, but this was fun.
Speaker 2:
[64:18] I kind of went for the more gruesome ones. I had a whole set of like murder ones, but I thought that might be a little too intense.
Speaker 6:
[64:24] Yeah, let's do that one next time.
Speaker 3:
[64:26] Let's do murder riddles next week.
Speaker 6:
[64:28] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[64:29] What's not to like?
Speaker 6:
[64:30] It's fun. That's a fun one.
Speaker 3:
[64:32] This was actually really fun. Roger, I think we all learned a little something today about ourselves. Thank you very much. All right, moving on to people who travel. Chris Christensen is obviously a very big traveler. And if you find yourself staying at places with convenient power outlets, he might have just the gadget for you.
Speaker 5:
[64:54] This is Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler with another Tech In Travel Minute. One thing that I always pack in my carry-on bag when I travel is the Anchor Nano Charging Station. And this is a travel surge protector, which lets you plug in just into one plug, which might be hidden behind the bed in a hotel room or wherever they want to hide the plugs. And if you're traveling internationally, it works with all the different voltages around the world. So you just have to have one plug adapter. And then into that, you can plug two normal US plugs, but also you can plug in two USB-A and two USB-C plugs. And so I find that I can have all my devices plugged in and only have to carry one plug adapter. This is the Anker Nano Charging Station, and I'm Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler.
Speaker 1:
[65:42] Look at that. Solving problems.
Speaker 6:
[65:45] Thank you, Chris Christensen.
Speaker 3:
[65:48] Well, Len Peralta, even though you were very good on our Roger Riddle this week, what have you been drawing throughout the show?
Speaker 6:
[65:57] Well, you know, the top story, I am Len Peralta from Cleveland, Ohio, and I'm going to join the top tech stories. And you can't say that it was the top tech story, of course, was Tim Cook stepping down as the CEO of Apple. So thank you, Tim Apple. He was from 2011 to 2026. That's a little nickname that Tim got.
Speaker 1:
[66:19] He's got Apple for a head.
Speaker 6:
[66:21] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[66:22] He's Tim Apple.
Speaker 1:
[66:22] Because he's Tim Apple, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[66:24] He even, where war got bent now, from one side so his glasses would fit.
Speaker 1:
[66:29] A lot of people don't realize that both Tim Cook and Tim Apple will be stepping down in September.
Speaker 6:
[66:34] Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[66:35] Thank you for illustrating that.
Speaker 6:
[66:35] I'll miss Tim Apple. He's a pretty nice guy. Yeah. If you want to honor Tim Cook or Tim Apple, you can go to my online store, lenperaltastore.com, where you can purchase this immediately. Or you can go to my Patreon, patreon.com/len. Back me at the DTNist lover level and you'll get this immediately. It should be there in a few minutes.
Speaker 1:
[66:57] Fantastic. Thank you, Len, and thank you. C-Spawn just gave us a super sticker right before we started talking about that stuff. Thank you again, Len and Rainbow for two super chats earlier in the show. Super chat and a super sticker. Big thanks to everyone. Look at that. More people piling in with the super stickers. Thank you to everyone who supports us on Twitch. Looking back over the last week, we had a resubscribed from Rasen. Tom says, go Chiefs. PC Milesy at 62 months. BrianM64 at 53 months. What's that, Roger?
Speaker 6:
[67:33] I just said, get out of here.
Speaker 1:
[67:34] Oh, it was Len. Theater Monkey for 78 months. I know, get out of here, everybody. This is great.
Speaker 6:
[67:43] But don't.
Speaker 1:
[67:44] What did we have today? We had a hype train. We had Zoey with 115 stream streak. G James B with a 65 stream streak. Thanks for the bits, Zoey. Thanks to everybody who supports us in all the various ways, including patreon.com/dts and hype points. If you're a YouTube person, you get hype points, they don't cost you anything, but you can give them to us and that helps other people discover the show. So please use the hype points on YouTube if you can. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:
[68:11] For more news, you know what to do. dailytechnewsshow.com.
Speaker 1:
[68:25] This week's episode of DTNS Live was created by the following people. Host Rob Dunwood, host Sarah Lane, host Tom Merritt, producer Roger Chang, video producer Joe Koontz, producer at large and brand new grandpa, Anthony Levos. Social media producer and moderator Zoe Dedderding, our mods, Beatmaster, WScotus1, Bio Cow, Captain Kipper, Steve Guadarrama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens and JD Galloway. Mod and video hosting by Dan Christensen. Music provided by Martin Bell and Dan Luters. Art by Len Peralta. A guest ad support from Tatiana Matias. Patreon support from Bobby Wagner. Our guest this week was Chris Christensen. And thanks to all our patrons who make the show possible.
Speaker 5:
[69:10] This show is part of the Frog Pants Network.
Speaker 3:
[69:13] Get more at frogpants.com.
Speaker 1:
[69:18] Timing Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.