transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:09] You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your host, Becket Cook. For more information about Becket and his ministry, visit his website at becketcook.com. To help support the podcast, visit patreon.com/thebecketcookshow. Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five star rating.

Speaker 2:
[00:38] Hey guys, welcome to the show today. I have a special guest, Naomi Van Wyk. We actually met at the live action conference I spoke at like a month ago, called the Young Leaders Summit. And she and I were chatting in the green room, and she mentioned that she was an ex-lesbian, and that God rescued her out of that life. And I was like, you gotta come on my show. So she's on today, and I'm excited to hear the details of her story. They're fascinating. But first, a word from our sponsor. Please welcome Naomi Van Wyk.

Speaker 3:
[01:15] Thank you, Becket Cook. It's great to be here.

Speaker 2:
[01:19] It's good to have you on. As I mentioned in the intro, like when we met at the Young Leaders Summit, what is it called? Yeah, Young Leaders Summit, the Live A Rose Summit.

Speaker 3:
[01:32] Live action. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[01:33] Live action summit. We were talking in the green room and I was like, you mentioned, I was so surprised when you mentioned, oh yeah, I used to be a lesbian. I'm like, wait, what? So I was like, you got to come up my show.

Speaker 3:
[01:49] Well, I'm here. I don't look like I used to be a lesbian.

Speaker 2:
[01:54] So I'm going to throw people off. That's kind of the thing that kind of threw me a little bit, I got to say. So let's get into your story because it's fascinating and God is amazing. Praise him. But let's start with, I didn't know this. You're the oldest of nine children.

Speaker 3:
[02:17] Yes. Can you believe it?

Speaker 2:
[02:18] You know I'm the youngest of eight.

Speaker 3:
[02:21] What? Oh my goodness. I would have been like your big sister. Yes.

Speaker 2:
[02:28] We have the same PTSD from being from large families, I think.

Speaker 3:
[02:33] Although you're at the opposite end, so it was quite different for you. Let me tell you. I was the second mom.

Speaker 2:
[02:41] Where were you raised? What state?

Speaker 3:
[02:44] Well, I was born in Iowa, but we moved every couple of years. My dad started campus ministry churches, so we moved all over the country. I lived in probably 20 some different homes before I was 30, I mean, or more. We moved all over and I was homeschooled, so that made it easy, I guess, for moving because I wasn't pulled in and out of schools. With eight brothers and sisters, I had plenty of built-in playmates.

Speaker 2:
[03:15] How many boys and girls?

Speaker 3:
[03:17] Five girls, four boys.

Speaker 2:
[03:19] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[03:19] So the girls won. What about you?

Speaker 2:
[03:22] The girls won. Your dad, you mentioned your dad, he was a pastor, right?

Speaker 3:
[03:29] He didn't go to seminary or whatever, but he actually went to Vietnam, got out of Vietnam and just had a burning desire to share the gospel. He was raised in a Christian home. He had just put together a little group, they called it the Blitz and they drove around in a Volkswagen van. This was back, you know, Jesus movement, you know, early 70s, and would just go to a college campus and somebody played the guitar and they'd pass out tracks and my dad would preach the gospel and my dad's very, very persuasive. He's led literally thousands of people to the Lord all over the country and then in other parts of the world. So that's what I grew up in. My parents then got married and conceived me and I have a twin brother. So, yeah, they conceived us on their honeymoon and kept having kids and kept traveling.

Speaker 2:
[04:20] Wow. Did your dad get saved in Vietnam or was he already a Christian before that?

Speaker 3:
[04:24] He was already a Christian. Yep. His mom became a Christian right around the time he was born. So he was raised in a Christian home and yeah, he's the youngest of three. But I think, yeah, being in Vietnam, he got drafted. It wasn't his desire to go, but I think that maybe gave him a wake up call of like, what am I doing with my life? And so his best friend that he met in Vietnam played the guitar. So his name was Dennis Clark. And so this group of like a dozen young single guys and girls, they'd eat day old donuts and travel around the country. I mean, they had no money. They had no jobs. They were just literally going. And so a little church would form and they would get a church started. And then they'd go to another college campus and preach the gospel until, you know, there was a little Bible study community group going. And then they'd go to another campus. And so I had great roots growing up. I mean, I always.

Speaker 2:
[05:27] Yeah. And did you enjoy, did you enjoy your early childhood with all the kids and the chaos? Like, did you enjoy that or was it in the moving or was it kind of hard on you?

Speaker 3:
[05:38] No, I mean, people always go, what was it like having a twin or what was it like having, you know, eight siblings? And it's like, you know, I didn't know any different, right? So I felt like I had a great childhood. I mean, we had a lot of fun. We were like the Christian Von Trapp family. If you ever saw The Sound of Music.

Speaker 2:
[05:56] I've never seen it. Of course.

Speaker 3:
[05:58] Yeah. You're one of eight. You have to have watched it. But I mean, literally, my dad, like, he rewrote the song, some of the Sound of Music songs and put Christian lyrics to it. We'd stand on the staircase in our house and we'd have to sing the Christian lyrics to Sound of Music and do the hand motions whenever we had guests over. So, I mean, I loved it. My mom was my best friend. She was my hero. I just always dreamed I wanted to grow up, be like my mom. I thought I'd just live on a farm and have 10 kids and home school and milk the cows and get the chicken eggs.

Speaker 2:
[06:34] Wow. So, then how did things go sideways? Because when you were 11 or 12, an event happened when you were 11 or 12 that kind of shifted your whole life.

Speaker 3:
[06:49] Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, as you can gather, I lived in a very sheltered environment. I had never been to a church besides my dad's church. I was home schooled. My community and circle was just my family or just people that went to my dad's church. But a girl came to my dad's church and she and I became friends. She was 16 at the time and I was 12. I just thought we were friends, but she had been a lesbian. She'd been in the lifestyle before. Of course, I had never heard, there was back then no LGBTQ. Growing up in this sheltered family, I'd never even heard about lesbian or gay or homosexual. That was a word that I'd never even heard of. I didn't even really know what it was about how boys and girls, how babies were born yet. I mean, we just, this little household family. So anyway, this girl at my church, she had a crush on me. She didn't tell me that, we just hung out a lot. And she told one of somebody else in the church who called my dad and said, this girl, I'll leave her unnamed, she came out of the lifestyle and she has a crush on Naomi. So I remember my dad called me into his room and starts questioning me and just almost accusations that there was something going on with me and this girl who was just my friend. And I was very confused because I didn't even know about relations between same sex and nothing had ever happened between us, except we were friends. But it was just very awkward. And then he asked me if I had kissed her and I was like blown away. And then he said, go read Sodom and Gomorrah and Genesis. And I mean, we had grown up reading the Bible. We memorized chapters of the Bible together, always saying worship songs. So I'm sure I'd probably had read it just because we read through the Bible in a year every year. But it didn't mean anything to me. I was too young to understand it. So he said, go read about Sodom and Gomorrah and Genesis, and then come back and talk to me. And I read it, I come back, I'm like even more confused. And then he said, this is what the enemy is going to use to try to destroy your life. And that stuck with me. And years later, I realized, he was being prophetic, but he was also speaking a word curse, I believe, over me. Because, Becca, from then on, throughout my growing up, I had girls pursuing me. And it was like some door to the enemy had been opened. And so I really believe that without him meaning to, I believe my dad had the best intentions. I think he freaked out. I think he didn't know what to do. Here is this, you know, his oldest daughter, he doesn't want me to, you know, fall into this lifestyle. And he had no history of how to deal with something like this. So I don't necessarily accuse him or fault him or blame him. I don't think the way he handled it was right. But I do believe he actually spoke a word curse over me because from then on, I had girls pursuing me as I grew up. And when this happened with this first girl, when I was just 12 years old, my dad, he kicked her out of the church. She actually worked for his landscaping company. So he fired her from her job. And he made me write her a letter that said, I will never see her speak to you again.

Speaker 2:
[10:38] We'll be right back after this short break.

Speaker 3:
[10:42] And I still didn't understand really what this sin was. I just understood that, okay, this is a terrible sin. I'm like, whatever this is, like this girl is very guilty of something. And I remember saying to my dad and my parents, like, you know, as Christians, I thought we're supposed to help somebody if they have a problem. I don't understand why we're ex-communicating her. If she has this struggle, like shouldn't we be like helping her get out of whatever this sin is? But this is how it was handled.

Speaker 2:
[11:15] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:16] And so, yeah, so as I...

Speaker 2:
[11:18] That's kind of how it was handled back in the day. Like it was just like, you know, cut off the person immediately. And like, there's just like no conversation. There's no coming alongside someone, helping them, you know, go through this. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[11:31] I mean, sadly, that's the way so much of the church, I don't think all churches are that way any longer. I think churches are starting to wake up and you would know better than I would probably, but there are some churches that still handle it that way. But yes, this was back in the, wow, mid eighties, early eighties. So churches had no idea what to do. So they just shut the door on them and so that's-

Speaker 2:
[11:57] What was her response when she received your letter?

Speaker 3:
[12:02] I never heard from her again. You know, I know she tried to call our house, this was of course before cell phones. So we had a landline. So actually, I also had to call her. That's right. I had to call her and tell her as well as send her a letter. And I mean, now it breaks my heart that that's how we treated her. But back, I honestly have never seen or heard from her since. I mean, that was, that was the end of it. She was literally off her property and out of the church, and I never never saw or heard from her again.

Speaker 2:
[12:40] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[12:40] So so yeah, that was that was pretty traumatic for me. Needless to say.

Speaker 2:
[12:49] And in general, and in general, I mean, did you have a close kind of emotionally close relationship with your father? Or was it was it a difficult relationship?

Speaker 3:
[13:00] That's a very good question. Um, my dad was an authoritarian.

Speaker 2:
[13:05] Yeah. Um, so when you have nine kids, you have to kind of be, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3:
[13:12] I mean, he came out of Vietnam and I mean, yeah, you have to, you know, keep keep all those kids in order. So I wouldn't say I had a strained relationship with them at the time. In fact, I had started working at my dad's office when I was 12. He said, if you can type 70 words a minute, come work for me. And so I taught myself how to type really fast. So I would go to work with him every day and come home. And so I, in many ways, had a closer relationship with my dad than most of my siblings because I was the first born. My dad put a lot of responsibility on me. I mean, he would leave the house and say, hey, if the kids get out of line, you know, you spank them. Like I had full authority over raising my siblings. And because I worked with him, I mean, I was with him more. So I wouldn't say we had a strained relationship. But I don't know that my dad really knows how to have an emotional relationship, an intimate, close emotional relationship with anybody. Honestly, I don't know that he's really ever had that. So I think I don't know enough about his past and upbringing if there was emotional strain there. But our relationship definitely got more strained over the years.

Speaker 2:
[14:30] So after that event with the 16-year-old girl, did you resent your father for that?

Speaker 3:
[14:43] I don't know that I resented him. I mean, maybe deep down I did. I don't consciously remember resenting him for it. I just think I felt really confused and hurt and didn't understand like why my, I guess, quote unquote, best friend, essentially, all of a sudden had to be out of my life. So it was definitely put something there in my heart, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[15:14] And so when you said that women or girls started to, they would kind of be attracted to you or they would pursue you. What, I mean, what was that like? And did you, were you, did you feel any attraction towards them? Or was it just kind of like, I, you know, I'm getting this attention and I'm not sure what to do with it. Like, what was that like?

Speaker 3:
[15:40] Well, I mean, it didn't happen like immediately, but you know, a couple of years later, I became friends with, you know, another girl. My, my, we all were home school, but then a couple of my younger siblings started going to a Christian school, of course. I was at a Christian school, you know, I tell people the enemy, he doesn't leave Christians alone. He's not just after the kids out there that aren't in a Christian home. The enemy wants to climb in the windows of Christian homes and go after our children. So, you know, the enemy was after me. And I believe it's, you know, God had a big plan for me. And so the enemy wanted to take me out before I could fulfill God's purpose for my life. So my younger sister was going to a Christian school and she played basketball. So I was the older sister. I could drive. I was 16 now. I take her to all of her games and all of her practices. And in the bleachers sat this girl watching her girlfriend who was the captain of the basketball team. So I became friends with this girl because we were at all the basketball teams, basketball games together. And, you know, I didn't know that she was in the lifestyle. We just, she just became my best friend again. But I did have, I was getting mature enough to go like, I wonder if this girl is this terrible gay thing again. You know, I was older now. I'm 16 and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, like this can't be happening. Like, I can't be coming, becoming friends yet with another girl that is also gay. How in the world could this be happening? But we became very, very close friends. And definitely an emotional relationship was there.

Speaker 2:
[17:24] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[17:26] I know that I was physically attracted to her. I mean, once she had a girlfriend that she was actually engaged to. So that actually became awkward and interesting because her girlfriend then started to get jealous of our friendship and I did end up asking her like, are you gay? I don't remember the whole conversation, but she denied it at first. And so then I kept being her friend and then finally she confided in me that she was gay. And then I'm like, oh no, I can't tell my parents because they're going to ex-communicate her from my life and I'm going to lose yet another best friend. So thus became this pattern in my life that when I would become friends with a girl, then I would find out that she was was gay or lesbian. I would be like, oh no, I can't tell my parents because I don't want to lose another friend.

Speaker 2:
[18:11] Yeah. And what about boys? When you were 16 and during that age, were you attracted to boys? Were you interested in boys?

Speaker 3:
[18:23] Yes and no. My parents forbid dating, so I never went on dates. I was allowed to go to a friend's homecoming, and a prom for a special thing. But we were raised that you're under your umbrella of your dad until you're under the umbrella of your husband. And almost like it's going to be a match made marriage. So my dad was, he was very controlling. He told people in the church basically who they could marry and who they couldn't marry. And so it was almost like I couldn't be attracted to a boy because that was basically forbidden.

Speaker 2:
[19:06] Forbidden, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[19:06] If you know what I mean.

Speaker 2:
[19:07] It's forbidden fruit.

Speaker 3:
[19:09] It was forbidden fruit. So honestly, I don't really know if I was attracted to boys or not because it was just like it wasn't there. And, you know, I actually was sexually molested as a child. So that, of course, played into me having not feeling safe around men, honestly.

Speaker 2:
[19:30] How old were you?

Speaker 3:
[19:33] It went on and off from quite a young age until I was about 16.

Speaker 2:
[19:38] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[19:39] And it was not my dad. I like to clarify that. But my dad, when he found out he didn't, I feel, once again, handle it correctly, he basically just brushed it under the rug and said, we're never going to talk about this. So again, the person who should have protected me from it happening, and then when he did find out about it, didn't deal with it appropriately, left me that much more vulnerable, that much more lacking of trusting a man. So I mean, deep down, like I said, I just wanted to get married and have a bunch of kids. I love kids, I love babies. So I wouldn't say that I wasn't attracted to men, because I always imagined that I was going to marry a man and have kids. But at the same time, I honestly, Beckett really probably wasn't attracted to men. I was pretty asexual, I think. I think all of that was just shut down. It was just really shut down in my mind and in my emotions. I've dealt with a lot of health struggles because of all the trauma. So not to get into all this whole scientific stuff of it, and you maybe have done some research too, but I've tried to then as I got set free, understand why was I vulnerable to this lifestyle? Besides the issues that I've told you about, and I've even read that people that are in the lifestyle, that they have their pituitary gland is smaller, or the pituitary gland doesn't function quite correctly. And I actually have a lot of issues with my pituitary gland. And so I'm like, was the trauma from my childhood, did that affect my pituitary gland, which is the master hormone, which tells all of your body what other hormones to produce?

Speaker 2:
[21:26] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[21:26] So not to get into a health science conversation here.

Speaker 2:
[21:29] Yeah, I think in the 90s, it was, was it Simon LeVay who came up with this pituitary gland theory? I think it was him.

Speaker 3:
[21:36] I don't remember. Was it him? Okay.

Speaker 2:
[21:38] Yeah, but I can't remember for sure. But then, so when you're in your 20s, you had a job and your boss was a lesbian. And then you guys didn't talk about that and how you became best friends and then ended up in a relationship.

Speaker 3:
[22:01] Right. Well, so having different girls pursuing me, I just look at it that it was like the enemy was just getting me more and more comfortable with this lifestyle, essentially.

Speaker 2:
[22:13] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[22:14] So I'm back living with my family, we're now living in Colorado at the time, and I take a job with the television and sports marketing company. This glamour job, we flew all over the country, putting on downhill skiing events for national television. And so I was on the road a lot. And so I wasn't at church, I wasn't with my, you know, I was part of the singles group. I wasn't with the singles group that much any longer. And you know, a little side story I should share here is the worship leader, I thought I was going to marry. And, you know, but he churned out to decide that he had the gift of celibacy. And so everybody thought that we were going to get married. But at the end of the day, we canceled getting dating because he decided that if he wasn't going to marry me, he was never going to get married. And true to his word, he's never gotten married. But I think that was just one more little chisel in the, what's wrong with me? Like, how come this guy that everybody, the pastor would even go, where's the ring? When are you getting married? So that relationship had just ended. And I'm like, and by the way, I mean, we never even hardly kissed. And I just thought he was just being really respectful of my boundaries. But it turns out he just wasn't physically attracted to women.

Speaker 2:
[23:36] Oh, okay.

Speaker 3:
[23:37] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[23:39] So did he end up coming out as a gay man?

Speaker 3:
[23:41] No, he never came out as a gay man. He just believed that he has the gift of celibacy. Well, and he never came out as a gay man. And I kind of could understand it because my uncle has never been married, and he's just felt like he had the gift of celibacy, and he could do more for the ministry and he's an elder. And so I was like, well, okay, this guy, I guess, is like my uncle. He has the gift of celibacy. But I bring that up because that ended right before I got into this relationship. So I think there was some hurt still from this. And I remember thinking, man, if this guy who seems so perfect for me, doesn't want to marry me, I just need to go live my life. Like, so anyway, I'm not home, I'm not connected with the church and the singles group because we traveled all over the country putting on stuff. My boss was a woman. We, again, for women, it's such an emotional relationship. And so it began as an emotional friendship relationship. And of course, my radar is up and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I think she's gay, oh my goodness, do I want to ask her? And so I did, I mean, I'd actually asked her, like, are you a lesbian? And she denied it. First off, she grew up Catholic, she was very in the closet. She'd only been with one other woman before me. And so we just began an emotional affair, essentially. And then I remember I was at her house for like a little Christmas dinner, just the two of us and all of a sudden, you know, we're cuddling and she's kissing me and I'm like, what's happening here? I'm thinking, wait, I thought, I thought you, I go, wait, I thought you weren't gay. And she's like, yeah, I lied. I'm like, okay. Okay. I'm like, okay. So yeah, I mean, then, you know, it went really, really quick. Before I knew it, I moved into her condo. And then I was like, hey, I want to buy a house. And so we went house hunting together. And then we bought a house together and adopted a cat, adopted a dog and you haul lesbians. They are, I was like, oh, okay. So yeah, that's, that's what happened. No buddy knew though we were, I mean, she had a couple gay friends, you know, but we didn't go to the gay bars. We weren't in the gay scene, you know, we didn't drink, you know, we worked a lot. We golfed, rollerbladed, hiked, snow skied, very active. But she didn't tell her family, I didn't tell my family. And everybody just thought we worked together and we were best friends and we were roommates. So, you know, I say sin is fun for a season. And she's, I say it was a counterfeit love. She's saying to...

Speaker 2:
[26:48] That's so funny. I use the same terminology. It's a counterfeit love. It's not, because true love, I mean, according to Paul in first Corinthians 13, love is patient, love is kind, love is blah, blah, blah. Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing. So if you're, that's not true love. Like when I thought I was in love the five times I had like serious, serious boyfriends, it wasn't real love. It was a, first of all, it was a sinful thing, but it was also, it was a neurotic love. It was almost like a, I always say like, my relationships with guys lived in this sort of like neurotic space and there was never stability. It was always eggshells. It was always like, especially for gay men, it's always like, you know, you better be in shape and you better have good abs and you better like, you know, it's like, it's all like physical and, or you better have a great, you know, career or da da da or else I'm out of here. So there was always that kind of like anxiety, under underlying anxiety in all of my relationships. But so how long were you in this relationship with her and how did it end?

Speaker 3:
[28:07] Yeah, we were together for a couple years, but all in all, it ended up being almost four years because it was so hard to get out. I mean, I just go, it's such, as you know, it's such a stronghold. So the Columbine shooting happened in Colorado, if you remember that back in the school shooting. And we were together, we were full on together. And I remember that was one of the first things that kind of pricked my heart because I just, I remember watching the TV with her and just going, wow, these high school kids are standing up for their faith. And here I am like living in this lifestyle and I am living in so much sin. Yet these kids are willing to like die for Jesus and I can't even live for him. So I remember there was something kind of stirring in my heart at the time. I mean, of course, you know, I grew up knowing that it was wrong, but I just always buried those feelings. Like I just, she was, she was fulfilling the voids and the longings that I had had, probably all through childhood. But again, it was a counterfeit love. It wasn't going to really fulfill, but it seemed to fulfill them. But it was, it was temporary. So I, I just, I honestly grew so sick of my sin back it. And it, it's truly just a miracle of God. Because when I speak, people go, but I like how did you get out? And I go, you know what, like hearing your story a little bit about how you had your mom praying for you, it just makes me cry because, honestly, I've actually never cried sharing my testimony except once before. But I didn't, I didn't have people praying for me because nobody knew I was in the lifestyle.

Speaker 2:
[29:54] Oh, right, right.

Speaker 3:
[29:55] You know, so.

Speaker 2:
[29:58] But did your parents, were they wondering why you weren't married yet? Or like, were they like asking you like, where, where's your new boyfriend?

Speaker 3:
[30:06] They weren't actually, you know, I mean, part of it was they, you know, they have nine kids and they also had a lot going on in their life and in their world. And I think they were just were like, well, Naomi's off living her life and this kid's doing this. And, you know, I had a sibling in Europe and a sibling in Hawaii. And it was just like, you know, and there's a whole side of my family issues that I, it's too much to get into on this show, but I had ended up dealing with a lot of struggle and separation, ended up being excommunicated from my family prior to getting into this relationship, then was let back into my family. So there was there was already kind of a lot of strain between my dad and I. So I think they I mean, maybe they wondered if I was in a relationship with her. They never asked and I never told them. So, you know, the Lord has showed me that my granny was always praying for me. And now she didn't know I was in the lifestyle. But I know she was praying for me just as a grandma prays for a child to just love the Lord. But I grew so sick of myself. There was such a battle in my soul that I could not keep weight on. I wore size zero and my clothes just hung on me. I looked I looked like I had a serious eating disorder, yet I would eat and eat and eat and my girlfriend was worried about me. I would get on a scale and I'd be like, oh my goodness, I had to gain weight, but I couldn't get no matter how many calories I took in. I never was bulimic nothing. But people would ask me, my co-workers, you have an eating disorder and I take care of you. I'm like, I don't. What was happening is I was so stressed that the turmoil from this sin, I was now wearing it on the outside, essentially. I remember one time getting out of the shower and looking at myself going, I am skin and bones. The verse from David in Psalms where he says, because of my sin, my bones are wasting away. I remember thinking, oh my goodness, that's what's happening to me. If I don't do something, I'm going to die. I'm wasting away. And I didn't want to end the relationship with her. I mean, I tell people, it's not like we had this big argument or this big fight or something, but because I say God's word does not return void. I grew up with so much of the word in me. And I also like to quote the verse, the letter of the law kills, but the spirit gives life. And so I knew the letter of the law, but I honestly don't know, Becket, I actually knew the Lord because I really say I was a Saul that then turned to a Paul. I knew so much scripture, but I did not have an intimate personal relationship with the Lord until the Lord set me free. But I knew enough. I knew that Jesus was going to be the only way to help me, to rescue me. And so I always share, my girlfriend was upstairs in our bedroom. We had a three story house in Colorado and I was in our kitchen. It was about 10 o'clock at nine. I just remember taking a kitchen towel and I just remember just like just trying to rip it into and I just had tears streaming down my face and I just felt my heart was, I just said, Lord, this is my heart. It's being ripped in two. And I just said, I love this woman, but I know I can't stay with her. And that was like the real turning point as far as like me, I guess making the decision of, I got to choose, I'm choosing Jesus above my own heart, is what it was. And I've had to tell myself, you know what? That's true for every one of us. Every day we're faced with, are we going to follow the way of the world, the wide path that leads to destruction, or are we going to choose the narrow way that leads to life? And so I made the choice then that I needed to end it with her and I wish I could say like, I just picked up the phone, I went back upstairs and got in bed with her. You know, it wasn't like, okay, hey, by the way, it's over. You know, we had exchanged rings, like here's your ring, like it wasn't that simple. So, but that was the beginning of my heart going, okay, I'm going to un-pray one finger and Jesus was right there. And then I'm going to un-pray another finger and he was there. But it was a lot of like two steps forward, three steps back, because I had to not only emotionally untangle myself from this person that really was the first person in my whole life that I felt like loved me besides my mom. She was probably the first person that I felt loved me, understood me, that protected me, that cared for me, that she was a nurturer in nature, you know, in her spirit. And, you know, my parents maybe had so many kids they couldn't give us all the individual attention that maybe I wanted or needed. But I, so it was a long process to end it because we owned a house together, we worked together, we had animals together. So it, and because I had been in such darkness, the, you know, I wasn't, I didn't make wise decisions even in the steps to how to get out because I had been living, my mind was just so clouded with darkness. And so, you know, the Lord, he gives us light for the next step. If the Lord had shown me everything that I was going to do to be set free, I probably would have been like, I can't do all that, Lord. But he just would give me enough light and then I could trust him for the next step, for the next step. And so it took a couple years before I actually moved into my own place and we put our house on the market and I quit my job and really was fully faced down, Lord, this is your life. I am fully surrendered to you. And I remember thinking, I don't know if there's going to be ever a man that would ever want this mess I've made, but Lord, whatever you want to do, I am yours. I am fully surrendered to you. And it wasn't easy. As you know, getting out of the lifestyle, I mean, the enemy, he comes to kill, steal and destroy, and he tempted me, and he got me on a hook, and you give him an inch, and he had taken over my heart. And so it took a couple years for my heart to be able to be fully surrendered to the Lord, and then took more years after that for just the healing process to take place, to be just healed and sanctified, and to just understand the Lord's forgiveness and grace, and then just didn't realize that not only did he forgive my sin, but the next step for me was realizing he forgave the guilt and the shame of it. Because I dealt with so much guilt and shame. I was a goody two shoes. I was always wanted to be this perfect child, and so I had to come to the end of myself.

Speaker 2:
[37:37] So two things. What was the reaction of your girlfriend when you broke up, and what was the reaction? Did your parents ever find out about this relationship?

Speaker 3:
[37:51] I wrote my girlfriend a letter, and I basically said I put my first love on the back burner, and I said I have to return to my first love. She had said before when we were dating, she's like, I don't think we'll always be together. I think your faith is going to pull you away from me at some point. I remember going, I don't know how to respond to that, but thinking deep down, she's probably right. But I didn't want to admit it, but I thought she's probably right. So it was very hard. But like I said, even though when I gave her the letter, we were still living together, we were still working together, we were still traveling together. So it was a weird, awkward season because then she'd be like, but I want to marry you. Like, what if we just get married? I'm like, but I want to have kids and my kids need a dad. So it wasn't just this. And I'm like, it was hard. And it was hard for me to see the pain I put her through, because I want the best for her. And then when I moved into my own place, I didn't have any furniture. So she helped me move. She brought the furniture from the house. It was her furniture from our place into my condo. So like I said, it took a while to really...

Speaker 2:
[39:26] To untangle that, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[39:27] Yeah, to untangle that mess. So I guess you could say she went through her own heartbreak, of course. And I went through my own heartbreak, but I knew that it was the only way to true peace. I knew that it was the only way to true joy, and I had to die to myself. And then when I did is when the Lord started filling me with more and more of His peace to then make the next best decision to be free. And then I actually moved to a different part of... We were in Northern California, my girlfriend and I, when I finally moved out, and then I moved to Southern California. I knew that I needed to like really separate so I wouldn't bump into her or whatever. But there is something where you have to, you can't just decide to be broken up. You have to actually really physically separate. Like my mind was so much of the, well, we could just be roommates. I'll just move into this other room. Let's just be, you know, because my mind was so crowded. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. I mean, I was wanting it to work, but at the end of the day, it didn't work.

Speaker 2:
[40:39] And what about your parents? Did they ever find out?

Speaker 3:
[40:42] Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't tell them. I didn't tell them right away. I ended up telling one of my sisters after I quit my job and after I'd moved into my own apartment. And my sister ended up telling my family, which at that point, I was totally fine because I'm pretty much an open book. Like I kind of wanted to like shout it from the rooftops, like, hey, look at what Jesus has done. Like, I can't believe like he's, I was so torn up and then ensnared and entrapped, and my heart was such a mess. But now look at I'm like, I'm free. I'm so free. I can't believe it. But there's so much family stuff. It's kind of complicated. I shortly about a month after I moved into my own place and quit my job and was just living off my savings account. I was sending out resumes. I was starting my life over. I mean, I literally was starting my life over because my life was so entwined with her. And now our house is on the market. So we have no rental income because we're renting the house out to some people. So paying a mortgage while the house is on the market, living in my own apartment, paying that rent, and I've quit my job. But I'm like, Lord, I mean, this is your life, whatever you want to do. I know that if you could get me out of this mess, if I just was in, then you can take care of me. Like, you are my god. I was about a month into this, like, healing place. And just hiking and just like, Lord, wherever you send me, I'll go. And I got a FedEx ding-dong at my door. And I open it up and I'm thinking, who even knows I live here? I've been here like a month. Like, who even has this address? And it was a letter from my mom and dad and my eight siblings, all signed. And I'm like, and my siblings lived all over, some lived in other parts of the world. I'm thinking, how this letter, did they fly this letter across the country? I'm thinking, I'm like, study these signatures back. And I'm thinking, like, these are their real signature. But the letter was excommunicating me from my family.

Speaker 2:
[42:56] Because of the relationship with you? No.

Speaker 3:
[42:59] And that's what's so shocking, is people always think that me being excommunicated was because I had been in this lifestyle. But it wasn't. And it's a lot to go into on the show. They did put a PS at the letter that said, PS, and we know about your lifestyle that you were in. Kind of like, we know about it. But that's not why the excommunicated me.

Speaker 2:
[43:25] Well, now we have to know why you were excommunicated. You can't just bring this up and say, I can't talk about it. Just briefly, if you could briefly tell us.

Speaker 3:
[43:36] I'll briefly tell you. My dad, and I try to say this very respectfully, because I do want to honor my parents. I believe there is a blessing in honoring our parents. And I write in my book that I am trying to share my story as truthfully, but as honestly as in honor as much as possible. So I was raised in a very godly home, and I'm so grateful for the upbringing. But my dad cares so much about his reputation and what people think of him. And when I was about 18, I quit working for his company and he took it as betrayal. He took it to the slap in the face. And so that began a lot of separation and trauma. And so when I had just moved out, one of my sisters, she had started asking me like, what happened when you were 18 between you and dad? And like, why, basically asking me, she was starting to wake up to some of the struggles and weaknesses going on in my family. And so I started sharing with her some of the issues with my dad that I had seen. And so she told a brother and a brother told my dad. And so my dad freaked out and thought, oh my goodness, Naomi is going to destroy my whole family. I need to get her out of the family before she destroys my whole family, essentially. So it really had to do with his reputation. And I had not at the time gone around and said anything to anybody about the struggles between my dad and I, but he has very insecure and very paranoid that, and his reputation is what he cares so much about. And so he was very concerned that I was going to ruin his reputation. And so he essentially, I say almost blackmailed my siblings. He flew them from all over the country and one in Europe to their house in Colorado and said, if you don't sign this letter, then don't ever come back. And so they met for a weekend and I was told they were crying. They were asking him not to do it. They didn't want to sign the letter, but they felt that if they didn't sign it, that'd be the end of them being part of the family as well. So it's a very complicated story.

Speaker 2:
[45:49] And have you since then, have you reconciled with your father?

Speaker 3:
[45:54] No.

Speaker 2:
[45:55] Wow.

Speaker 3:
[45:56] No. But we've had, we've cried. Oh yes, and that's a whole part of my story is about the forgiveness. Um, so, you know, I, I know that in me realizing how much I needed to be forgiven for my lifestyle, that the Lord used that for me to be able to forgive my dad. And I, I remember just, I would wrestle with the Lord, like I realized it was, you know, just the grace of God that I was forgiven. And I remember just going over, you know, in Matthew where it says, you know, to the extent that you forgive, you shall be forgiven. And so I would just have like this argument with Jesus, like, but I don't want to forgive my dad. Like, I mean, after everything he did to me, like, I mean, this, this just isn't fair. I mean, but then it'd be like, oh, but this is the truth. I mean, this is what it says here in red and white, as much as you forgive, you will be forgiven. And I'd be like, I need so much forgiveness. I don't want the Lord to withhold any forgiveness from me. I have so wronged him. And so I just would have this, you know, and this was within the first year of really separating from my girlfriend and me just really understanding the depth of the blood, of the grace that I had received from the Lord. And so it was during this season that I was understanding how much the Lord had forgiven me. That I knew, I knew I didn't want to grow bitter at my dad. I knew that that bitterness would destroy me, but it would do nothing to him. I'd be like, he lives in a different state. I mean, he won't know if I'm bitter with him or not. He's not talking to me. He has no relationship with me. So he won't know if I'm bitter. But that bitterness I knew is a spiritual cancer. And I knew it would destroy me and eat me up. And so I would every day, I'd get up at four in the morning and it'd be like, Lord, I don't want to be bitter. I don't want to be bitter towards my dad. I want to hate him, but I know I can't hate him. And so I need to forgive him, but I don't want to forgive him. And just this battle of like, how do I forgive him and help me forgive him? And it was just this ongoing wrestling match almost with the Lord. And at the end of the day, I knew that that verse kept coming back to me. To the extent that you forgive, you will be forgiven. And so I would just pray, Lord, help me forgive my dad. Help me forgive my dad. So it was this ongoing prayer. Because I knew if I forgave him, then I wouldn't be better. And so I remember one morning, getting up at 4 a.m. to have my, I would have two hours with the Lord before I went to work. And I just had this vision of the Lord. And he was on the cross. And it's like, okay, I was just learning, I have to come under the cross. I have to let his blood cleanse me and forgive me. And I just, I come there and I am not responsible for my dad, I'm not responsible for anybody else. It's just me and him. And so when I was there, I then saw our heavenly father. And I just, I saw him weeping for my dad's soul. And Beckett, I mean, it was just supernatural. I just started to weep. I just couldn't believe it. It was just like, I just saw this picture of my heavenly father weeping over my dad. And I just started to weep for my dad. And I just was like, oh my goodness. Like I forgive my dad, my heart breaks for my dad. And I just, I honestly say it wasn't, it's not in my own flesh to be able to forgive my dad. But I felt like the Lord just like put his heart on top of my heart. So I could forgive my dad through the father's heart. And so I'm just, I'm so grateful because I could be an absolute mess and train wreck if I had lived 20 plus years now with no relationship with my dad or my mom. And I went actually a few years with no relationship with any of my siblings because of all of this. And one by one, many of them have now restored a relationship with me. But my dad did everything he could to keep my siblings from having a relationship with me. And I mean, he even went to every church that I would attend, when I would move and try to contact the pastor to tell the pastor, kick her out of your church, she shouldn't be in your church. And so there would be lots of things that will come back to me that my dad was doing to try to hurt me. And his own mother. I'm getting more real on your show than I have anywhere because I just haven't been quite ready to release all of this yet because I've really been waiting on the Lord for the timing because I don't want to do anything to dishonor my dad. At the same time, I want people to understand how much the Lord can forgive. And I want my dad to understand how much I love him and forgive him. And he's just a pawn in the enemy's hand, honestly. And I don't think he understands or realizes what the enemy has done and has been doing through his life. But I kind of lost track of where I was there. But I'm just so grateful that the Lord just gave me his heart to love my dad and to forgive my dad. Because it has been an ongoing thing over the years where he has tried to, oh, this is what I was saying, is his own mother, my granny, which is now she's now passed away. But shortly after I got this letter, my granny called me and said, don't let your dad know anything about your life. He's out to destroy it. And so for that to come, and it broke her heart and it broke my heart to know that my granny is like, it's her son, it's her baby son. And she's breaking over him and she's breaking over what he's doing to me, her granddaughter. So I just share all that to say, yeah, there's so much power in forgiveness. There is so much power in forgiveness. And the the quote that says, you know, unforgiveness is like, you know, drinking poison, expecting the other person to die, right? It's like, you know, I'm the one that's going to kill myself if I don't, if I don't forgive. So but but you know what? It's because it's because I needed to be forgiven so much. So it's just a beautiful picture of how the Lord works and redeems because if I had never gotten into that lifestyle, you know, I don't know, I would maybe not have felt like I had so much that needed to be forgiven.

Speaker 2:
[53:10] Right.

Speaker 3:
[53:10] And then I would not have understood the Lord's forgiveness like I do.

Speaker 2:
[53:16] Because grace, like that's exactly right. I mean, it's like when you, it's like my life, when I got saved, it was so dramatic and it was such a completely like a 180 degree thing, that I just, God's grace was so magnified because of that. Rather than like, if I just, you know, grown up in a Christian home and been a Christian all my life kind of thing and been like the older brother and the prodigal son, it would have been a different thing. But because I was such a deep, strong prodigal, when I got saved, I just got like, I was just, I was, I mean, like the next day, I was just like, I can't believe God had mercy on me, like had grace on me. His grace, and still to this day, I'm just like, how? Even at that conference that we were at, it's like those, I have those moments all the time when I'm out on the stage and I'm like, how in the world did I get here? Like, my God's grace. Like, this is crazy that I'm at this conference talking about this issue. Like, it just, it blows my mind.

Speaker 3:
[54:29] Favor, just favor. God, his favor and love is just more than we could ever, ever imagine. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[54:37] Okay. So speaking of favor, let's talk about your, you found, you ended up getting married. Talk about that, how you met your husband and then you had two daughters.

Speaker 3:
[54:51] Yes, I sure did. Well, that's a whole nother, yeah, amazing miracle of God's favor because, you know, I just wanted to grow up and get married and have kids. But after the lifestyle, I just thought, you know, I'm damaged goods, so God had to just, you know, heal me and go, I'm a new creation in Christ. But I had to believe that and receive that myself before I was ready, I guess, to be married. But yeah, it was 10 years after I got out of the lifestyle that I met my husband. So I had 10 years of just, you know, falling in love with Jesus and traveling the world, doing ministry, and the Lord knew, I guess, I just needed that much time. As well as I learned to just pray for my husband, even though he wasn't my husband yet. And I just, the Lord just, I just said, God, I'm just gonna pray for his finances, for his emotions, for his friends, because he's out there somewhere, and I'm just gonna believe God is gonna bring me my husband. And so I then got to the point of just, I just started thanking the Lord. Thank you, Lord, for my husband. Thank you that you're bringing me my husband, and just acting in faith as if like, I don't wanna say as if we were already married, but you know, like, because I was like, you know, we believe, therefore we speak. So I'm just, I'm gonna speak it out. I'm just gonna believe in faith that God is gonna bring me my husband. And so, yeah, 10 years later, we met, we both were at the same church here in Santa Barbara, but I sat on the front row, and he's real reserved, and he sat kind of in the back. And so for five years, Becket, he watched me walk down, and he just is, he's so reserved, he never was going to approach me.

Speaker 2:
[56:36] You're like, come on.

Speaker 3:
[56:38] You know, honestly, I, he likes to joke and say, you were so busy praying for a husband, you had no time to notice me. So it is, it is kind of true. You know, I, I, because I kind of had a fear of men, like I had a lot of healing to do to be able to trust men, and because of the molestation, and I never, I just, I had had, I'd had honestly, I had had so many men actually proposed to me, and they hardly knew me yet. They just would propose, it'd be like, oh, you make a great wife and you make a great politician's wife. And, and so I always said, no, I'm, I'm serious. I was, but I mean, I, I had this like fear of like, I don't want somebody just to marry me because I'm going to look like good arm candy for them. And that's, that had kind of happened to me. So I was pretty standoffish to men. I'm sure I'm a pretty strong, bold woman as well. And because I just felt like I want somebody that really is going to nurture my heart and not just go, hey, here's a pretty girl. I was probably pretty unapproachable. So we actually met at his place of work, but one of the elders wives tried to set us up, but I was being set up. I was always being set up with somebody. People I think felt bad for me. Here's this girl, she's in her 30s. Now she's in her late 30s. Like what's wrong with her? How come she's not married? And then when I would go on dates, Becca, I never knew when am I supposed to tell the guy about my past? It was this really awkward thing. Like at what point in this, I don't want to wait too long and then be like so upset with me that I didn't tell him sooner, but then sometimes I would tell him like right away and I'd never see or hear from them again. We're so freaked out. So it was this really hard balance of like when do you reveal this part of your life to them and how are they going to take it? And yeah, some of them are going to disappear. I mean, they're not going to be able to handle it. So I was like, the Lord knows he has somebody that's going to be able to handle my past. So I was set up with him, but I said, no, I'm set up with somebody else right now, like one at a time. And I went into his place of work. I worked at the BMW dealership, and he knew who I was, because he had been watching me for five years, but I had never seen him in my mind. So he goes, yeah, we go to the same church. And I go, you go to my church? Like, who are you? And I was not like love at first sight, not by any means, but he brought me to his office and he shared his testimony with me. And he was not cocky or overconfident, but yet he just had a humble way, but he felt comfortable around me. And I felt like other guys were either too, too cocky, but they probably had to be pretty cocky in order to approach me, because I was so unapproachable, or they were too like scared to approach me. So, so he just, yeah. Anyway, long story short, we met and four months later got married. And we had a really quick, let's just get on with this. And that was for, there was a lot of different reasons that played into us getting married quickly. I don't recommend it for everybody, but for us, some circumstances with all of the drama with my family and our pastors were moving to Maui and we really wanted them to marry us. And so for a lot of timing reasons, we got married really quick. But he had been married before and is nine years older and he had two sons from his first wife. And you know, God knows what we need. I would never probably have gone on a date with him because I said, I had never dated somebody that had been married before. I had never dated somebody that had kids. I was like, I don't need that baggage. And the Lord is like, what about your baggage? Yeah. So anyway, I just know that God handpicked him for me. And the Lord knew that he was perfect for me, even though he was not what I pictured. But because he had been married before, he had had a vasectomy in his first marriage because of a lot of struggles. And honestly, part of the reason he never really approached me is he had such an awful divorce. His wife cheated on him, left him, and he just thought, I will never get remarried. This was so awful. But he'd always thought I would make a fun coffee date type of thing. But he never thought he'd actually get remarried. So that was a total miracle that the Lord did on his heart to want to marry me and that I wanted to marry somebody that had been divorced and had kids. And I'm like, hey, you know, I'm the oldest of nine. I want to have a big family. He's like, but you're 37 and your doctor says, you don't know if you ovulate or not. So he's thinking, well, and I've had a vasectomy, so like, he's like, we're done. I mean, his boys were like 12 and 14. But he's like, you know, when we're talking marriage, it's like, but we can, we can, I can get it reversed. But in his mind, he's thinking, no, we're just going to go on because chances are, I'm not going to be able to conceive anyway. Long story short, I start praying for God to change his heart, to want to have kids, and I go get checked. They're like, well, you're actually ovulating. So I'm like, honey, you know, guess what, you can have that reversal surgery. The doctor says I actually am ovulating. And he looks at me like, what are you talking about? So that was another year and a half of God growing my faith, just praying, not nagging him, just praying for him to want to have this reversal surgery. Yeah, he had the reversal surgery. They're not always successful. Praise God it was successful. The doctor said, okay, it looks like it was successful. It'll be about a year before you probably could conceive because it will take a while for the sperm to be healthy. So we're like, okay, it'll be about a year. Very first month, I am pregnant. We're looking at this P-stick going, we couldn't believe our eyes. I'm 40 years old, conceive completely naturally, have a home birth, have my first miracle daughter. I'm blown away just like God redeemed my life.

Speaker 2:
[62:49] Wait, how old were you when you had your first daughter?

Speaker 3:
[62:52] I was 40.

Speaker 2:
[62:53] Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[62:55] I was 40. Yeah. No, people are like, what? I mean, they think surely you did IVF. I'm like, nope, completely natural. I had a home birth even. Wow. Not even an aspirin back it.

Speaker 2:
[63:10] Whoa. Wow. That's amazing.

Speaker 3:
[63:14] Well, my mom had all home births. I was at my sibling's birth with my mom. I thought that's what I would do. But anyway, I say all that because we conceived as soon as the reversal surgery had happened. We just thought, oh, we'll get pregnant again, and I better hurry up. I'm 40. Let's start having these kids. But it was six and a half years of infertility and of multiple miscarriages. It's a whole another show because it was such a trying time for my faith and my life because I so longed for another child, and so long for my daughter to have a sibling. I couldn't imagine her growing up an only child, especially me with eight siblings just like you, a big family. I had people go, why don't you just be thankful for the daughter you have? Or why don't you adopt? You're really too old to probably get pregnant again. But I got to the place where I was like, Lord, if you have this for me, then you're going to have to give me your hope and faith because I am so done with this journey. Every single month, it's a roller coaster. Every month you think you're pregnant and then all of a sudden you're not, and then every month. So every month, when I would realize I wasn't pregnant, I'd be like, and within a couple hours, I just would feel like the Lord would infuse me with his hope. I go, okay, Lord, you've given me enough hope for another month. Okay, I'm going to hope in you for another month to conceive. And so by the grace of God, I gave birth at 46 to my second daughter. And again, completely natural. We're very, very pro-life. It's a whole other show, but we don't believe that we should take matters into our own hands. I was like, I don't want to birth an Ishmael by doing IVF. Everybody can decide how they feel about that. But my husband and I just really felt like, you know what, if the Lord has another child for us, then he can do this supernaturally. Yeah, I had my second one six and a half years later and named her Ruthana Hope. I had to give her middle name Hope because it was truly the Lord giving me hope to keep hoping. I'm just so grateful for God. He redeems our life from the pit and he's just given me way, way more than I ever, ever, ever deserved, ever imagined. Never imagined I get to meet you, Becket, and be on your show and get to share what God has done and set me free from. And so, yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 2:
[66:01] Praise God, praise God. Well, we're going to leave it there because that's the best thing, that's the best place to leave it because you just said it all. But tell us about, just before we leave, tell us about you have a book coming out later this year. What's the book?

Speaker 3:
[66:18] Yes, I'm very excited. I actually, I wrote a rough manuscript probably almost 15 years ago, put it on the shelf and I'm finally finishing it. It takes you through my childhood and it takes you to when I am 27 years old and I have just gotten out of the relationship with my girlfriend and I've just gotten the letter, ex-communicating me from my family and I get on my knees and I hold the letter up and I say, Lord, this is your life, whatever you want to do with it. The book is titled Unsilenced and it talks about, my tagline is perfection shattered when truth and love broke through. I had to live this very perfect life, I felt. My dad had this very high expectation of what we should look like and how we should dress and how we should behave. And so I tried to fulfill that perfection for so long. But all of that shattered when I really met Jesus and when his truth and love came through. So it's the journey of how God brought me through. Basically what you've heard, it just goes into a lot more detail of my story and how Jesus is. It was a miracle, how Jesus did a miracle with my life. And to give people hope that it doesn't matter what struggle they are in or what their child is dealing with, with same-sex attraction or whatever sin struggle, that there is a God who can absolutely set them free. He's a God of miracles and nothing, nothing is impossible for our Lord. And I'm living proof of it.

Speaker 2:
[68:10] I am too. Amen.

Speaker 3:
[68:12] Amen.

Speaker 2:
[68:12] Wait, did you say when is it available?

Speaker 3:
[68:17] This later this year. I don't have an official release date. The last chapter is literally, we've just finished the last chapter. It's in the editing process right now. So it's going to go to print this summer. So hopefully by September, October, we'll have it ready for purchase.

Speaker 2:
[68:34] That's awesome. Okay. Well, congrats on the book. Naomi Van Wyk, thank you for coming on the show and sharing your amazing story. God is amazing. I mean, His grace, I can't get over it, but thank you for coming on the show.

Speaker 3:
[68:48] Becket, you are such a joy. I'm so glad God connected us and thank you so much. I look forward to having you on my show and learning more about your story.

Speaker 2:
[68:56] I know. I can't wait. I can't wait.

Speaker 3:
[68:58] Well, I'll be soon. Thank you so much. You're an inspiration. God bless you.

Speaker 2:
[69:02] God bless.

Speaker 1:
[69:06] Thank you for listening to this episode of The Becket Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes of The Becket Cook Show are also available on YouTube. For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his website at beckettcook.com.

Speaker 2:
[69:24] Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will find more faith-centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.