transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys, I'm Emma.

Speaker 2:
[00:09] And I'm Isabel.

Speaker 1:
[00:10] And welcome back to another episode of Comments by Bravo. Hey, Is.

Speaker 2:
[00:14] The grind never stops.

Speaker 1:
[00:16] No, it is nonstop. And I would just like to say, putting on record, I think there's about a 98% chance that Jesse Solomon and Kristin Cavallari hooked up.

Speaker 2:
[00:25] 98 actually feels low.

Speaker 1:
[00:28] To me, it's like, there's just no way it didn't happen.

Speaker 2:
[00:31] It's a no-brainer. They clearly had chemistry. I think they went out after. They're exactly each other's types. And why the hell not? And if I know anything, I know Andy was egging it on. Because for him, that's like his dream situation.

Speaker 1:
[00:47] I just know for a fact, next time, either one of them are in the clubhouse, that will be a question.

Speaker 2:
[00:52] Yeah, I mean, by the way, remember like Jesse Solomon and Erica Jane hooking up? Like they're, it's not his first rodeo at the Watch What Happens Live extravaganza.

Speaker 1:
[01:01] No, and it's not Kristen's first rodeo among Bravo Men.

Speaker 2:
[01:04] No, no, no, please, she invented the rodeo.

Speaker 1:
[01:07] Yeah, I love the whole thing. So just wanted to put that out there. I mean, okay, I know we have been saying this entire season that it is so crazy, or this entire season since the event of West News broke, that it's so crazy watching the show, knowing what we know. But some of these scenes, and specifically some of these lines from these scenes, felt like, how is it possible this wasn't retroactively added?

Speaker 2:
[01:32] It felt like a show where they wrote the script, and then there are flashbacks that the writers specifically wrote in to make you feel a certain way. So the fact that this is actually real life and what was playing out, we had to keep reminding myself that because it's almost stranger than fiction.

Speaker 1:
[01:55] The West-Ciara conversation at the end, the only word that I personally can use to describe it was chilling.

Speaker 2:
[02:02] It was genuinely eerie. That's the best way I can describe it is, just when one of them said something and you thought that was the worst, it kept going. I was watching from behind, hiding behind my fingers.

Speaker 1:
[02:16] Yeah, I was at emoji for sure.

Speaker 2:
[02:19] Literally.

Speaker 1:
[02:20] I know that it is so tempting to start with that conversation. Let's refrain and go through some of the other moments from the episode, but trust, I have so much to say regarding that.

Speaker 2:
[02:32] So, so, so much. There's not even enough storage on my computer for how much I have to say.

Speaker 1:
[02:40] By the way, not even mentioning that Ciara covered Glamour Magazine this week.

Speaker 2:
[02:44] Casual.

Speaker 1:
[02:45] And Amanda and West were at the Yankee Game. And an honorable mention to Kyle Coke for making out on the street with Megan King.

Speaker 2:
[02:52] Formerly Edmunds. Wait, by the way, that was such a hilarious breath of fresh air almost because Kyle has been really just going for it on threads and on Instagram, giving his opinion as Jessie said on Watch What Happens Live, like getting pretty pissed, I think, and wanting to vocalize and just like put that energy somewhere. So he's been like literally Bethany Frankel style commenting his thoughts on every little move that goes on. So then for the story to change that he's kissing Megan King outside of the Page Six party, and there'd be actual video footage of it, I was like, Oh, my God, like, how, how are we this lucky?

Speaker 1:
[03:40] I'll tell you right now, there's a lot of bravo verse crossovers. I just was not expecting that one.

Speaker 2:
[03:46] No, so, so random, like a mad Libs equation that even your highest self could not come up with.

Speaker 1:
[03:54] No, and I agree to what Jessie was saying of like, listen, totally get how he's feeling, and also perhaps slow your role slightly, just because things just started to go in your favor. You don't want to ruin it while you got it.

Speaker 2:
[04:07] Okay. The way I can describe Kyle is that everyone else is moving in such a calculated, curated, very specific way, and also playing it as cool as possible in their own individual circumstances, and kind of almost giving it a Gen Z flare where it's like, you're hinting at things or you're talking about things, but you're not just randomly just spewing your thoughts. And Kyle is on the opposite end of that spectrum. So when you're comparing Ciara, Amanda and West, the way that they're moving through this, and then Kyle, he is like, it's another planet.

Speaker 1:
[04:47] I can't necessarily be mad at it though.

Speaker 2:
[04:49] Wait, I'm obsessed. Are you kidding? It's like, it's giving us life.

Speaker 1:
[04:53] Yeah, at least you stay in true to form.

Speaker 2:
[04:55] Right, like Kyle suddenly being so subtle and moving through this with a whole plan would be actually weirder than maybe the rest of it.

Speaker 1:
[05:05] Okay. You're right. I am overwhelmed. Right before we started, Isabel was like, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. And I was like, no, don't be. Think about it. There's been weeks where we were talking about a million episodes, but now as we are actually recording, I am feeling overwhelmed because the Summer House content just runneth over. I would like to spend one minute on the Yankees game. I know at this point is kind of old news. I know that it's nothing necessarily revolutionary because they are going to live their lives. It's not as though they're expected to just stay inside. It was the fact that the content of them that was going viral wasn't fans submitted. They were literally on the broadcast. And what I want to talk about for a second, I'm curious everyone's thoughts on this. There's a moment where they kiss. And after you see Amanda say something to him, I cannot confirm the accuracy of this. This is just what is being said by the lip readers of TikTok. It is being said that she said, act like you like me. My first question to you is, do you feel that that is true?

Speaker 2:
[06:08] Like not really. But then also I'm just inclined to believe that even if she's saying that it's in like a playful way. And I overall felt from watching all the also like crowd videos of them from behind, from walking, that Amanda specifically was very aware that there were like eyes on them. I don't think they necessarily thought they were going to be on the games feed. But I think they knew that, you know, there's people around and them being out at a game together is certainly cause for people to pull their phones out and film. So like, for example, when he's like standing up and cheering and going crazy with his friends, she's like kind of pulling him to sit down because I really feel like she was very aware of like, yeah, we're fine. We're cool. We're just living our life. We're just two people dating, going out to a game, like saying that to herself, but internally knows that every single thing they do is being potentially watched and they just like needed to try and keep as many eyeballs off of them as possible. Obviously, that didn't happen. Them going out in public like this, I think personally, pre-reunion was an insane decision. But I just think she was way more aware and felt the eyeballs on her and he was like, no one's looking at us, we're at a Yankee game. That's his natural habitat and he was treating it as such. That was the vibe of it overall.

Speaker 1:
[07:36] Yes. My general vibe on the situation is that Keith seems to be more unbothered than she is, which I think is very on brand with their personalities. I think she's taking this whole thing in and on a little bit more than he is. It's really hard for me to talk about because I know that it's been weeks now. I'm honestly still sick over the whole thing. Just when I start to feel like, okay, I'm going to take my mind off of it until the reunion, we get an episode like this where I am so connected to him and Ciara's conversation. Then seeing that at the same time as you're seeing these real-time pictures of them and Jesse on Watch What Happens, talking about his suspicions, it's a lot to handle. Also, West on his podcast spoke very briefly about the situation, which I feel like if you're Andy Cohen, you probably don't love because it feels like something he maybe would have saved for the reunion. But he essentially said that he feels bothered at the fact that everybody is getting the timeline wrong and that people are claiming that there was overlap and there really was not overlap and that he's excited to clarify that. Okay, by the way, you're talking to two people who actually do believe that there was an overlap and also that is the least significant element of the entire thing as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2:
[09:03] Yeah, I felt like that was one of my biggest takeaways from Jessie on Watch What Happens Live. And I think Andy was kind of shook by that too, where Jessie's vibe given his conversations with West has been that he's gonna come in kind of hot. Like Jessie was, his advice was like, you have to be accountable, you have to listen to everybody. And was saying that he's only giving him that advice because West kind of is coming in like, well, we're two single people and wanting to clarify the timeline and the semantics of like the details of it instead of, it actually has nothing to do with that at all. Like yeah, technically all of those things on paper can and probably are true, but it's like so much bigger than that. And I just thought that that was such an interesting like perspective on sort of what we can expect because I think everyone was probably expecting that they're both coming in with their tail between their legs, which I think Amanda will be. But the fact that West is sort of like fired up about this feels like, wow, really that takes some balls.

Speaker 1:
[10:07] It's just the weakest argument because it's frankly entirely irrelevant. Even in our initial emergency episode, we were discussing it. We were saying, don't get it twisted. This is not a cheating scandal. This is just a friendship betrayal of the biblical proportions. That is what is unique about the situation.

Speaker 2:
[10:25] I feel like examining West's relationship with fame is probably so interesting because he really, I think, rides the high highs and the low lows of it. Because he both is so obsessed and deeply, I think, ingrained in the notoriety, the girls all wanting to be with him, the fame of it but doing it in his own cool way. But then also, as I think even demonstrated in this conversation with Ciara tonight, is so resentful of the whole thing of the cameras and the fans and people talking about them and making it worse and him being framed as the bad guy and all of these narratives. Also, most importantly, which I feel like is the most relevant right now, it's stripping him of his rights as a fuck boy around New York City, which is obviously when people know who you are, they're watching every move. Girls are talking, oh, you hooked up with West? I hooked up with West. But in a way, way bigger than a quote normal, unfamous guy because millions more people know who the fuck you are, and there's something to report. So it's like, you can't have your cake and eat it too. And I feel like there's such a push and pull of like he loves it and reaps all the benefits, but also sometimes is so annoyed and resentful really is the right word in the way that it, I think he feels it factors into ruining his relationships and I think he felt it did with Ciara, even though obviously a lot of it was him talking to the press, but overall just like if all these eyeballs weren't on us and all these people weren't in each other's ears, it wouldn't get this way. And then now with Amanda of I think he'll say, everyone blew it out of proportion, it became this whole media circus and the bullying and like it's a really easy scapegoat. I'm not saying it's not a factor, a hundred percent it is and it changes everything, but it's a huge scapegoat and thing to blame when you don't want to take full responsibility.

Speaker 1:
[12:39] Oh, I actually can't even, the resentment piece of it specifically as it applies to Ciara was hands down the most telling comment of the entire episode and I cannot wait to get into that. I would really like to heavily analyze that when we get to that portion of the programming, but totally. He definitely has a complex relationship with it and I think that probably my guess, and listen, it's possible that conversations with Jesse and maybe his other friends, he really will take the advice going into the reunion and will have a little bit of a different tone. But if he does have the combative tone that Jesse had mentioned and that you could kind of tell he had on the podcast, I think it would partially be because of his reaction to the situation and also because he felt triggered by how pissed he was at that reaction from the first go around with Ciara.

Speaker 2:
[13:32] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:32] Which like...

Speaker 2:
[13:35] I feel like even watching this, I'm reminded of when he went through this sort of spiral, was it two years ago last year, when it was like he was silent during the reunion and there was a 180 on him and everyone started hating on him and he started becoming like, boo, West. I feel like he's like, oh, here we fucking go again. Obviously this is on a much larger scale just because of the way that this really kind of exploded. But I feel like he's like, oh, here we go again. The whole internet hates me. By the way, having a complex relationship with Fame, I do not blame him at all. I can understand the biggest celebrities in the world love their jobs but resent the popularity, the paparazzi, the lack of privacy. Of course, you're allowed to have a complex relationship, but no one force you to do any of this or to speak on things this way or to handle yourself. It's only such a small piece of the puzzle. I could write a dissertation about this, but there's plenty more to get into.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2:
[14:37] I am overwhelmed. I told you and I was right.

Speaker 1:
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In terms of Ciara covering Glamour Magazine, I feel like we just need to pause and acknowledge how major that is. She obviously looked incredible. It was an interview done by Hunter Harris. Says, Ciara Miller will let the universe handle it. She didn't rush to post, she didn't spiral online. When you're a close friend and your ex go public, what's done in the dark doesn't stay there. And she really gave it to us. I mean, she touched on a bunch of different things. Obviously, there is some aspects that she has to hold back for the reunion. The choosing for her first real comments on the situation to be done in this way was very intentional, and it was a move that I so wholeheartedly respected.

Speaker 2:
[19:51] The sentence, Ciara Miller covering Glamour magazine, is like, honestly, it's like the cuntiest thing you could do.

Speaker 1:
[20:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:01] Complimentary, to the highest degree of complimentary.

Speaker 1:
[20:05] Yeah, I mean, you can tell is obviously very much actively mental processing the situation. Yeah, because Hunter asks her, I'd like to know who you feel has betrayed you more, West or Amanda. She says, at the end of the day, a guy is a guy. Whether or not West and I are working on a relationship, you just can't put anything past a man. But I just never would think that it would come from someone like Amanda, who's been what has felt like in my circle and in my corner for so long. I think that's the craziest part. Hunter says, watching you defend her to Kyle this season, Ciara goes, I fought with your own husband to advocate for you. I've championed you. I've tried to be there in different ways for you and help you and get you to see your value in yourself. And so to be disregarded in such a disrespectful way is, honestly, it's, I'm at a loss for words sometimes. Like you could tell. I feel as though when she was answering these questions, she is still in the moment, actively attempting to wrap her mind around the insanity of the situation. Right.

Speaker 2:
[21:05] It's probably like an out of body experience. What do you mean I'm on the cover of Glamour Magazine, but also this is real and what I'm talking. Like it's probably so like out of body.

Speaker 1:
[21:16] She also confirms, which I know we knew and have been screaming from the rooftops, that she essentially found out with the rest of the world, which is the point that we've been trying to hammer home of like, no matter which way you slice it, the fact that they did not have the decency to tell her is simply inexcusable. And when she's asked, did you get a heads up that West and Amanda planned to post that statement on Instagram, confirming their relationship, she goes, less than 24 hours, one notification was about 45 minutes before. And Hunter asked, did you get to read it ahead of time? What do you think? She goes, I read it with the rest of the world. There's something about the lack of being able to say each other's names in the statement that I found very telling, but I don't know. And when she's asked about her last conversation with Amanda, she goes, minimal is all I'll say, because that's something I will talk about at the reunion.

Speaker 2:
[21:58] I mean, what a cliffhanger. Also, Hunter put in her sub stack, like a little bit about Ciara's, the pictures of Ciara that obviously went so viral of her like sitting down outside of the Hermes store and me packing. And basically, Ciara's like, I was walking into Pastis, a restaurant right there. I didn't want to be sitting there with the public. I literally just needed to like sit down and process this because it was right when the statements were posted. And she obviously was like having a freak out.

Speaker 1:
[22:27] I mean, yeah, I love when she was like, honestly, kind of iconic that it was against the Hermes store.

Speaker 2:
[22:33] Right.

Speaker 1:
[22:34] Which is exactly what we have been saying. Right.

Speaker 2:
[22:36] If you're going to cry somewhere, it should be in front of Hermes.

Speaker 1:
[22:40] I recognize it has kind of been a very hectic news cycle recently, especially with things that we specifically care about. Like the fact that it went from Mormon wives to Amanda and West, to Alex and Alex, that all feels really personal for us.

Speaker 2:
[22:53] With Bieber Coachella smack in the middle with Kylie.

Speaker 1:
[22:57] Right. And Kim and Louis in Malibu, like a lot is happening for sure. I am just so not desensitized to this.

Speaker 2:
[23:05] No.

Speaker 1:
[23:06] It's like I'm so upset. I'm just like still so upset about the whole thing.

Speaker 2:
[23:13] I know, but you're going to have to put your big girl panties on because we have not even filmed the reunion yet.

Speaker 1:
[23:20] Don't you think that for all of them, literally every single party, even the least involved of it, like even if you're fucking Dara Bailey. Yeah, literally POV, you are Levi, if you even remember her. By the way, is she going to be a three?

Speaker 2:
[23:34] By the way, this is Levi, feel old yet? Like what? Let's get you to bed, grandma.

Speaker 1:
[23:39] No, I just honestly, I feel like even for her, it must be anxiety provoking that this reunion hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 2:
[23:46] Traumatizing. The human body is not meant for things to be in this order of operations in any part of it. So yeah, I think it's probably so fucking anxiety. I mean, I don't even, I don't know what you do. I don't know how you sleep. I don't know how you focus on anything. And it's really like, I'm not desensitized at all. I mean, listen, obviously it's like every day there's something new. And I feel like we're hanging on to every bit of information, but it's really all about the reunion. I mean, by the way, not only was Ciara on the cover of Glamour Magazine, then today it was announced that she's going to be on Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 1:
[24:21] Oh, damn straight.

Speaker 2:
[24:23] And that's what we called the Ariana Maddox special double time.

Speaker 1:
[24:27] Oh, I honestly think the Ariana Maddox was, dare I say, child's play compared to what's happening here.

Speaker 2:
[24:34] No, that was a scoop of ice cream. We're about to have the whole fucking Sunday.

Speaker 1:
[24:38] Okay. In terms of this actual episode, I mean-

Speaker 2:
[24:42] Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:
[24:43] Really West and Ciara have the, obviously, the...

Speaker 2:
[24:47] What's the term I'm thinking of?

Speaker 1:
[24:49] The resistance?

Speaker 2:
[24:51] Pies de resistance? What's the thing in that language? I'm keeping that.

Speaker 1:
[25:00] That is obviously that final conversation where she, again, looks the best anyone has ever looked, and it's just like pouring her heart out in the most honest way. But we have another one, like as if that wasn't enough, we have the foreplay to that, which is him coming into her room while she's on FaceTime with fucking Amanda. Okay.

Speaker 2:
[25:23] Here's my question. I don't know if our audience is like a good test pool of this, but for all the people who maybe agree or feel just in some pool that like, Ciara, get over it. Like you guys were only hooking up or dating for a few months. It wasn't that serious. It was so long ago, blah, blah, blah. Like when those people who even dipped their toe into that camp.

Speaker 1:
[25:53] By the way, it couldn't be us.

Speaker 2:
[25:54] Right. Not me, but I'm just saying like, those people exist, okay? Maybe there is no daddy gang. After watching this episode, where we are so intimately transported back to the depth and magic of their relationship, I need to know if that has made people be like, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:25] I genuinely, genuinely, and I really am not trying to be dramatic, cannot understand the thought process of someone who doesn't get why this is so hurtful.

Speaker 2:
[26:39] Right.

Speaker 1:
[26:39] Like, yes, of course, the argument about nobody cheating, that is a real thing. But again, it is irrelevant.

Speaker 2:
[26:47] Okay, Mike, no, here's my thing. I would give people potentially a free pass to have that school of thought until this week because- No, no, you would not. No, okay, sorry, not a free pass, but I could potentially understand how it's been a while since you've been living in that feeling of them together. Like it's been, you know, you haven't like really experienced it. Unless you rewatch the show, like you kind of, it's easy to forget. I will be honest, it's easy to forget. I still feel like it wasn't that big of a deal just purely because on paper it was X amount of months or they weren't like as official as you maybe would think. I, you got something wrong with you.

Speaker 1:
[27:57] But Isabel, that is only one half of the equation.

Speaker 2:
[28:00] No, I know, but I'm saying, I think people, a lot of argument is like, they weren't even really dating, like it was fair game for Amanda. It's not like fully Ciara's ex. And I'm saying anything aside, to see how deep and real their relationship was, A, makes it even more hurtful for Ciara. It makes it even more fucked up for West, cause he was, you know, takes two to tango there. He knows exactly what they had. And Amanda knew so intimately that that's what they meant to each other and heard it from Ciara's mouth. So all of those things, it's like, if that was your one way of looking at this, I'm sorry, that no longer is even allowed to be on the bullet list.

Speaker 1:
[28:41] Amanda was Ciara's point of contact throughout this entire situation.

Speaker 2:
[28:46] Right. And now you see how special and important and big of a deal their relationship was.

Speaker 1:
[28:52] No, it's diabolical is actually the only term that is accurate for this.

Speaker 2:
[28:57] Well, that's like, I think what we said in the emergency episode when we broke this was like, we can't focus on the on paper and the technicalities of it because that's just not realistic of life. Like you can have a friend who dates someone for six months and it means one thing and then a friend who dates someone for six months and it's like this deep, loving, passionate friendship, best friendship, intertwined. That argument just doesn't stand because there's such nuance to every relationship and we're looking at it right now.

Speaker 1:
[29:29] Yeah. There are people that, I mean, think about it in our own lives, there are people that I feel like I have fucked up with absolutely one time that you guys know would be so deeply hard off limits. Meanwhile, there's people I've had relationships with where it's like, yeah, it's fair game, go for it. It is so person dependent.

Speaker 2:
[29:46] Right. It wasn't that deep. We spent this time, that time, but other people were like, no, we had this soul connection and put me through this and put me through that and I felt things I never felt before. I'm sorry, it doesn't matter. And I know I'm saying this because the vibe I got from Jessie on Watch What Happens that West argument is going to be, listen, we only were dating for six months and like I just foresee that becoming an argument from him but also I've already seen it on the internet and I'm sorry that just, it's no longer valid.

Speaker 1:
[30:20] But then what's, okay, even even if for 30 seconds we want to play ball with that, which obviously I am not trying to, but hypothetically, what's Amanda's argument then?

Speaker 2:
[30:31] That's what I'm saying because I'm saying she fucking knew the depth of it.

Speaker 1:
[30:37] She's the one, the irony of this entire thing is that in last week's episode, in this week's episode, she is the one directly confronting West about how disrespectful his actions are towards Ciara. And then you are going to make that a huge point, you are going to go out on a limb about that, make that a huge part of the storyline, and then you are going to become President, Founder and CEO of disrespecting Ciara?

Speaker 2:
[31:01] No, make it make sense. All of the conversations and like lines of specifically West, but I think Amanda really is obviously in there too, of, you know, I would never want to disrespect you, it's eating me alive, how I hurt you, like all of that, to hear it, given the context of now and also the whole narrative of like Ciara wanting to be seen and respected and how that was such a scary place for her to be because she didn't know how to be with him because she also felt like she would be embarrassed when she said that, when she said I was so afraid of being embarrassed by you, I actually felt the pit of my stomach clench.

Speaker 1:
[31:44] Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:
[31:45] This is the most embarrassing fucking thing. Even though Ciara didn't do anything, I know her immediate, innate reaction was probably just pure and utter betrayal, sadness, all of that, but humiliation that this is the situation she's in.

Speaker 1:
[32:02] Well, because it was like the thing that she feared the most coming true and by the thing that she feared the most, I don't mean Amanda and West hooking up, I don't believe that was anywhere in her realm of consciousness, but being disrespected by West again on this massive of a scale was the thing that she was so scared of, I mean, she's saying it.

Speaker 2:
[32:19] Yeah, he was like, hold my beer, you thought that was bad? Right.

Speaker 1:
[32:29] Starbucks baristas know their communities. That's why every year, Starbucks baristas can nominate local nonprofits to receive grants, with more than 16,000 grants awarded to local organizations so far. So how Starbucks supports communities is led by people in those communities. Because at Starbucks, making an impact together is just the start. Learn more at starbucks.com/partners. Hold on, Clayton. We're about to get to the final conversation between the two of them. But in general, anytime he is talking about this, whether it's that initial conversation in the room, or when he's talking to Amanda about it, I find myself being so bothered at his general vibe, and I get that this is just the way that he operates generally. But there is something about his demeanor that feels so dismissive and disrespectful, and more than that, it actually feels so selfish. Even when he's saying to Amanda, I've been trying so hard, I understand I was disrespectful and hurtful, but now I'm like, what did I just jeopardize? Was it friendship? Was it rekindling? Was it just her tolerating me for eight weeks during the summer? It's like, I hear you, but that's also not the first question. It's not about what you jeopardized for yourself and how you're going to make it more difficult for yourself. It's how did I just hurt her? Every conversation that he was having around this situation, and by this situation, I mean him making out with this girl next to her, because again, that was situation A, not to be confused with situation B, him being in a full-blown fucking relationship with Amanda Bautula, was through the lens of how did I fuck this up for myself? It was never him hurting her was entirely an afterthought. Him apologizing for hurting her was him going through the motions. The point that really was the most prominent for him was the inconvenience this has caused in his life. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2:
[34:21] Because it doesn't, again, like I was saying, the resentment about fame, it didn't allow him to just move through the house and be his normal self without thinking. And it's like, well, sometimes, yes, that's the consequences of your actions. Yes, it made you uncomfortable and yes, you probably are happier and better when Ciara is on your good side and you guys can have fun and you don't have to think twice about it. Like sometimes that's just not how the cookie crumbles. No.

Speaker 1:
[34:47] I mean, when they're having the conversation, let's fucking get to it. When they're having that conversation and again, to your point, when she said the line about her biggest fears, just being embarrassed by him and all of these things that are now even so much more relevant and feel genuinely chilling. I need to focus on the line where he says, and I'm so glad you transcribed this because I also did in case you didn't. And the other hard part is like, I know what my phone looks like, and it's so many people talking about you and I, comparing us or talking, whatever it is, it's super nasty. And my natural instinct is to resent the person who everyone is shitting on you about. When in reality, you and I aren't doing any of it, and it's just such a weird thing. He right there, I'll give it to him that it was honest, but he told on himself. He told on himself that he resents her. When everyone is coming for him for his behavior, his first thought isn't to be upset at himself. His first natural instinct is to resent her, because if she wasn't the wronged party, and specifically a wronged party that is so beloved, he would not get the reactions from everyone. And in that moment, it told me everything that I ever need to know about this situation. I don't believe his resentment towards her, even after this conversation, even after whatever they rekindled or moved on from throughout the summer, I know we haven't seen it yet, that never fucking went away. And I believe and I recognize this is the least sympathetic edit you could give a person. And so if this is not true and this is not his reality, then let me be wrong. I believe even subconsciously, there was something about hurting her in this way that in some sick way was satisfying to him because he feels so wronged by her, even though he can logically understand that he was the one who did it. That line was so fucking telling. I cannot get over it. And like, I'm glad he said it because that was his truth. I don't think he recognized how huge of a statement that was.

Speaker 2:
[36:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[36:52] Like that was a really, to me at least, that was like a really telling thing.

Speaker 2:
[36:59] And it couldn't be more relevant to now.

Speaker 1:
[37:02] Oh my God. No, that's what I'm saying. I think that it's really harsh to say that on some level he felt that she was like deserving of this level of hurt. I don't feel that it was like consciously sadistic in that way. I really don't mean to frame it like that. But I certainly think there was some major subconscious shit happening there, for sure. Yeah. Because that feeling doesn't just go away. Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[37:27] There's so much. I mean, also, just quickly back to the embarrassing thing, to hear her crying and saying that how him literally with a girl sitting on his lap and kissing her for a few seconds next to Ciara and on camera in front of their friends made her feel embarrassed and how deeply that hurt her. And then, like you said, that was her biggest fear. I was like, okay, if you think that's bad, it's like, if that's how that upset her, like I can't, and he knew that. How do you not translate that to understanding how this could be the worst case scenario? I don't, I feel, that's what I think. I feel like maybe it's a self protection thing, but I think West specifically, my take so far, of course, this is pending the reunion, is that he's not like understanding why this is so bad or such a big deal.

Speaker 1:
[38:28] I agree. I agree.

Speaker 2:
[38:29] And it's like, I think, Amanda fucking knows. West, I think, is partially like just trying to block it out, but also is like a little delusional in really believing his own web of like how this is okay, that like whatever he's spun as a story. And I don't understand after not only living through this conversation, but now like you're gonna watch it again and still be like, I don't get it. It's actually mind blowing.

Speaker 1:
[39:00] No, but I am telling you, I know that you would think it would have the reverse effect. The fact that he in some ways on a much smaller scale went through this already and like saw the way that he hurt her. You would think that it would make him understand this even more. I think if anything, it actually is making him understand it less because I think that it allows him to really kind of attach himself to the narrative of like, well, guess I'm always just the fucking bad guy. I don't remember what I was saying this about last week. I don't remember if it was on the Bravo episode or right. I was saying something about how like when, you know, the meme about telling your mom that like she did something wrong, it's like, oh, guess I'm just the worst mother ever.

Speaker 2:
[39:39] Like, oh, it sounds familiar.

Speaker 1:
[39:42] That is to me what I feel that West's vibe is like, well, everyone just fucking comes for me when I, when I, you know, do something wrong to Ciara.

Speaker 2:
[39:49] Yeah, like here we go again.

Speaker 1:
[39:51] Where we go again, it's like, no, no, no, you, you are.

Speaker 2:
[39:53] I could never win.

Speaker 1:
[39:54] No, it's like, sorry, that's, that is not allowed here. I mean, she is, she's literally saying like, I want to be able to let my guard down and be normal around you, but it's just hard because I don't know what that even looks like. And you know what? Her gut was telling her that he wasn't a safe place. She wanted him to be, but her gut knew. And the second she does allow her, her walls to be locked down, which again is the most fair thing ever. I think that it, you know, I will frame it as a beautiful thing to be able to allow yourself to open up to that and be trusting. And the second she does that, he fucking does this. Which I'm sure in some ways, you know, propelled her. And that like what she says in the Glamour article about like, you know, people will tell you that you shed the people that you don't need to have anymore in your life in your 30s, totally. But in some ways, I'm sure it set her back because, like I was saying earlier, her worst fear was imagined, right? Here she is being like, I want to let my walls down. I want to be more open. Boom, open, deepest hurt of her life. Yeah. So it has the potential, if not really worked through, to actually make her even more guarded, which I know is not what she wants for herself. And I'm just so, I hate also, also, sorry, how did I not even fucking say this yet? I get that this is clearly his way of being able to have the conversation. I genuinely in my soul don't believe that he means this to be disrespectful. But the fact that his percentage of eye contact with her throughout this conversation was maybe a solid 10, was driving me fucking bananas.

Speaker 2:
[41:30] It's so weak. It's so weak.

Speaker 1:
[41:32] Be a man and look this woman in the eye when you are apologizing to her. By the way, what about when he's talking about, you know, bringing her to his family and how it's not that he regrets it and he values that time together, but that at the time, you know, he didn't realize how impactful that was. And you're going to say that. You're going to say that, say it with your chest, but look into the distance because you can't look her in the eye. It is so weak. And you're right. And that is exactly what my dad would say, that it was weak. That's exactly what it was.

Speaker 2:
[42:03] I, it's so upsetting. I mean, obviously like, duh, sky's blue, but like, she really was fighting herself very much, like listening to her head versus listening to her heart in terms of like what she really wanted to do. Because there's also such a huge part of me watching this conversation that I think she just wants to say like, fuck it. I love you so much. Like, let's just do this. I miss you. Like that is very much, I felt kind of hovering the surface, but I think it's her head versus her heart saying, in my head, I know I can look at all the patterns. He's hurt me. He's done this. He's done that. Two nights ago, he made out with a girl next to me. Like, this is very much a pattern. But her heart is saying like, I love this person. I want to be myself. I want to have him back as a friend. I want to be able to laugh. I know in my heart that he is a good person and I've seen that side of him. And I think, which is an amazing quality, she was able to just go with her heart and say, let's give it a try because that's what feels best for me now. And now, she's probably like, well, look where that got me. Yes.

Speaker 1:
[43:12] And also, so much of this is really that deep in terms of the internal challenges that she was having. And not just internal, I mean, she was walking him through her thought process and allowing them to be external. Like, I'm trying to let my walls down, but it's really hard. But there was also the more superficial element of like, she genuinely enjoys being around him. Like, they have fun together, even forget the sexual component. Like, they genuinely have fun as friends.

Speaker 2:
[43:38] And as a group, that's also the dynamic that's hard, is like, they're also living as a friend group, and it's like, there's this one, you know, gap in the relationship. Like, that's hard.

Speaker 1:
[43:51] Totally. But the part of West that is really fun to be around as a friend, like even if you are a guy and also as somebody that has flirtation with him, is the same reason that he's been able to get away with a lot of stuff that I think your average guy probably doesn't. And so she's not immune to that. Just because she has put up a wall with him, she's not immune to the fact that she enjoys his company and his presence and even as simple as the vibe that he brings to the function, as you're saying. And so there was also that piece of it where she wanted to just be able to lean in, because how much easier would it be if she could? Even at the end of this conversation when they're like, can I just be best friends again? And he goes, by the way, I knew you weren't going to make out with Jessie. And she's like, you said you didn't care. Are you kidding? He goes, wait, what was I going to do? She's like, stop it. Save me.

Speaker 2:
[44:39] It's too much for a girl like us to handle.

Speaker 1:
[44:44] This episode, specifically that scene, should be required viewing to anybody who has been consuming any of the West and Amanda content.

Speaker 2:
[44:56] You cannot earn your ticket to watch The Reunion unless you're really watching everything.

Speaker 1:
[45:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[45:01] And sitting down with your girlfriends and discussing this.

Speaker 1:
[45:05] Yeah, it is really just a lot. And in terms of The Reunion, I am obviously so locked in on the way that Ciara is going to handle this. And I just have such faith and confidence in her ability to handle it, like honestly and vulnerably and also masterfully. Like I think we will walk away and be like, damn, that was a master class in how to handle this very unique situation. But also, I'm almost less interested in the way West and Amanda will be and kind of fascinated in like the rest of the cast. Because, you know, it's the kind of thing where, and I think some of them struggle with this, of like not overly inserting yourself in it and making it about yourself, but also wanting to be like supportive and the fact that objectively, this rocked the entire nature of the show. Like anything else aside, I recognize this is the least important element in the scheme of things. Like the most important is obviously the actual hurt that went on, but it totally fucked up the dynamic of the show. I know that that's a ridiculous statement because like the best thing for a reality show is drama, but factually, there's no way that this crew of people could exist in a house together again seamlessly.

Speaker 2:
[46:19] I mean, it already was in a kind of weird place, obviously, given Amanda and Kyle divorcing. It's like, what does that look like? Like so many things, a lot of them kind of phasing out of it. But yeah, no, now everything is kind of really fucked up. But also I think they really are in a lot of ways like a family unit. And this does send a huge ripple through the group of like alliances and fighting and how involved everyone was in the relationships with all of them. Like it's a huge, I don't know. I think if I was giving advice to like everyone except West and Amanda and Ciara, like honestly even to Kyle, I would say every point you guys make about this has to be extremely relevant and you can't like, I just feel for like Jessie and Lindsay and like even KJ has been tweeting some stuff that it will be really important that they don't make it about them. Even like Jessie saying that he hasn't gotten an apology about, you know, they lied to his face. Like I can understand how that's really jarring, but I just think we don't need to be wasting reunion minutes on that necessarily.

Speaker 1:
[47:31] I completely agree and I think that it's really hard on these shows for everyone to not involve themselves, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[47:39] I mean, listen, I think it's gonna be, it's just, I don't, honestly, like, anything anyone says I will be so hooked on. So it's like, we will be in no lack of, like, content. Like anything is, any content is good content here, but I just think, like, we have to really be making productive uses of our time.

Speaker 1:
[48:02] Yeah. Well, more on that.

Speaker 2:
[48:06] It's so funny and honestly, I swear to God, like, it's not our intention to spend these full episodes on Summer House. There just happens to be so much, but like, it's almost like it's our problem child right now. Whereas there's other, all the other shows on Bravo right now are so amazing. Like, they're really all so good and we're watching all of them. It's just like, I'm like, okay, you guys are coasting and you're fine, but mommy doesn't need to pay attention to you right now. You're fine on your own, like, playing independently. We have to focus on Summer House. It's like, I'm obsessing over Ladies of London. Beverly Hills is about to be in the Reunion. Maybe problem, but kind of just like quietly fading into the background. The Valley is on. Atlanta is amazing. Rhode Island is actually the funniest, best show I've ever seen, but at the moment, mommy's busy.

Speaker 1:
[48:57] Yeah, I feel like you guys can play Roblox or whatever kids are doing these days. It's like, I need to focus on where my energy lies.

Speaker 2:
[49:05] You guys take the iPad.

Speaker 1:
[49:07] The thing is, the rest of these shows have been pure escapism.

Speaker 2:
[49:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:10] Whereas Summer House is right now, it is not escapism, it is journalism.

Speaker 2:
[49:15] No, but I will say they really did the damn thing with Rhode Island.

Speaker 1:
[49:20] Oh my fucking God, they are so good.

Speaker 2:
[49:23] Liz is, she's a Teresa Giudice.

Speaker 1:
[49:28] It's also the connections go so deep. I mean, you can't write that.

Speaker 2:
[49:32] Alicia is one where you're like, how did we find you? We're so lucky.

Speaker 1:
[49:37] I was so emotional watching the scene where she's role playing with Kelsey wanting to ask her husband to put her on the house. Because I was watching her get so emotional. Yeah, I mean, he really clearly by design has made her feel small. And I really hate that and really am disgusted and worried for her.

Speaker 2:
[50:00] I fear Rosie is like, she really is the Whitney Rose. She's studied, she's coming in with an agenda. She's saying, why you said Liz was always going to be like that? Why did you say that, Alicia? It's like, okay, you guys are so funny and interesting. Let's maybe take a deep breath. In the first episode, there's confrontations about cheating and swinging and friends and who's related to who. You almost don't need that forced producer mindset, but there's always going to be one in the bunch. And I feel like it will be a lesson in watching yourself and toning it back. But that's literally my only note. Everything's just such perfection.

Speaker 1:
[50:39] I mean, low key, I feel like it's almost insulting to Whitney to say that.

Speaker 2:
[50:46] Well, I know. But also, you know shit's popping off when Dolores Catania is like fading into the background.

Speaker 1:
[50:54] I know. Well, I think she's watching over them like a proud mother, like, yeah, you know what?

Speaker 2:
[50:59] Yeah. She's like helping her babies fly the nest. Also, yeah, Ladies of London, guys, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it's really, really funny and good. I'm really loving it. It's become my treadmill in KleinWalk show, and it brings me a lot of joy.

Speaker 1:
[51:18] No, it is. I'm a little bit behind, but I am really enjoying it. I also feel, and I know you're a little bit behind, but sue me, I'm into The Valley. Oh, wait, what I want to tell you about The Valley this week is that there's a moment where Brittany's boyfriend, when they're in the car on the way there, it's like her, Brittany, Lala, whatever, and they're talking about-

Speaker 2:
[51:41] Brittany's boyfriend that's on camera?

Speaker 1:
[51:43] Yes, he asked her to be his girlfriend.

Speaker 2:
[51:45] Holy shit, I did miss a chapter.

Speaker 1:
[51:48] I think this is last week, except I don't even know what day it is, but they're in the car talking about something with Jasmine. This is his first time interacting with everyone, and they get to the party at Danny and Nia's house, which by the fucking way, when you watch this episode, you are going to be like, oh, so this must have been an actual painful watch for you because you guys all know the way that I feel about Danny, and they were having a Western-themed party and he would only speak-

Speaker 2:
[52:15] Oh, I saw this. Western.

Speaker 1:
[52:18] I actually was-

Speaker 2:
[52:20] Divorced.

Speaker 1:
[52:21] I was having a- Divorced. Yeah, yeah, I know. It was like an out-of-body experience for me. It was giving the way I would feel in the OG days of Karl Radke before I did my deep 180 of loving him.

Speaker 2:
[52:31] I saw that clip and I felt like if she was to file for divorce and then play that clip for the judge and the lawyers, they would literally immediately say, Dawn, take the money and the kids and run, it's all yours. We get it.

Speaker 1:
[52:45] Yeah. Yes, that is exactly accurate. But they're at the party and Brittany's boyfriend kind of tells Jasmine about the car conversation. They're all like, wait a second, Brittany's like, hold on, hold on. You just got here, you can't be telling. You're new. What do you mean? This was confidential. Just imagine it in the terms of you're talking shit with your friends in the car with your boyfriend who just is meeting everyone and then they get to the party and he tells the person you were talking about.

Speaker 2:
[53:17] Oh dear God.

Speaker 1:
[53:19] Everybody's like, that is so not kosher. And she's like, and Brittany says in her confession, like, Jax loved to stir the pot. Like, I thought I got away from that.

Speaker 2:
[53:26] Yeah, that's giving like either huge lack of like social cues and understanding or wants to stir the pot slash is already loving being on TV. And all of those things are not something I have time for Brittany to put up with.

Speaker 1:
[53:42] No, no, no, no. It's good, though. I mean, I'm enjoying myself personally. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[53:48] I guess we like Bravo. You think? Also, in terms of Atlanta, there is something so like comforting and calming about seeing Phaedra, Portia and Cynthia together, just like laughing, getting a pedicure. And Kay Michelle is such a fucking natural that sitting with those women, I feel like she's been there forever. To me, the fact that it's like her third episode does not register in my brain at all. And I feel that way both in her like personal scenes and confessionals, but also when she's physically with like these OGs. And I just feel like that is like, especially on Atlanta where you really got to prove yourself, that is not easy to find.

Speaker 1:
[54:38] No, and she has it. I mean, also because she'll go toe to toe with Portia, no problem.

Speaker 2:
[54:44] Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1:
[54:46] One other thing from Summer House that I just feel we have to mention is the scene where Mia and her brother go to the media with Ciara.

Speaker 2:
[54:54] Oh my God.

Speaker 1:
[54:56] Oh my God.

Speaker 2:
[54:58] Yeah, that was so heavy and beautiful. And I just like, I love me. I feel like she's literally my best friend.

Speaker 1:
[55:07] I feel like I already really liked her, already felt really connected to her, obviously because of the sharing a dead mom thing, unfortunately.

Speaker 2:
[55:18] That whole thing.

Speaker 1:
[55:20] Yeah, that whole thing. But, and specifically the medium stuff, I mean, you know how much I love that. And I really related to like how comforting she found it and all that. But I feel like the reason I feel so connected to her is because when you're watching the show and when you're feeling for Ciara, I forget I'm watching the show in real time when you're feeling for Ciara, you almost feel slightly helpless because you as yourself, there's nothing you can do to be a friend to her. We just don't know her. So to know that she has Mia, the best way that I can describe it is like it just gives me peace.

Speaker 2:
[55:55] Yes, and vice versa.

Speaker 1:
[55:58] Of course, but I'm saying in current day.

Speaker 2:
[56:01] Yeah. No, Mia is the calmest, safe, loving presence ever for anyone, I think.

Speaker 1:
[56:09] Yeah, but also in the reverse. I mean, to have somebody there when you're having a medium reading, even though it was Ciara that introduced her to the medium, that's real fucking personal. I've never done that.

Speaker 2:
[56:19] No, and to be filmed, I feel like is a huge opening up of yourself. Yeah, to have a friend there and invite them even in the first place, I feel like it says everything you need to know about their friendship.

Speaker 1:
[56:29] Well, the things you don't know what the medium is going to say.

Speaker 2:
[56:32] Right, right.

Speaker 1:
[56:33] Like she haven't had a really beautiful reading and who knows what they kept in and what they didn't, but like sometimes those on the other side can get a little feisty, you know? My mom has said some shit.

Speaker 2:
[56:44] It also can bring up some stuff like you just never know.

Speaker 1:
[56:47] Totally. Like so who is the family member that she's talking about that XYZ? It's like, oh shit. Right. Anyway, what a really spectrum spanning week here.

Speaker 2:
[57:00] As they go these days.

Speaker 1:
[57:02] Yeah. As always, we are so grateful to have all of you to process this with because it is not for the faint of heart. We love you guys. Thank you for listening and for letting us do this and Bravo We Trust.

Speaker 3:
[57:22] Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.