transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hello, friends, before we get into the episode, I wanted to let you know that we have a new merch collection out. We haven't come out with merch in a couple of months, so we have a really cute spring collection. All of the shows have new designs, which I'm very excited about. We've got t-shirts, we've got hats, we've got totes, we've got tumblers, we've got tank tops, we've got baby tees, we've got cropped tank tops, we've got it all. So there's definitely something for everyone over at milehighermerch.com. Also, just a reminder that 100% of the proceeds from any merch, from any show, goes directly to the Higher Hope Foundation to help support victims of violent crimes, as well as other nonprofits who are in the same scope of work. So get yourself some cute merch for the springtime and also help out a great cause as well. So yeah, happy shopping.

Speaker 2:
[01:14] Hey, what's up, everybody? And welcome back to Mile Higher Podcast.

Speaker 3:
[01:19] Welcome back to you, mainly.

Speaker 2:
[01:21] Thank you, Ian.

Speaker 1:
[01:22] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[01:23] Oh, man, it's good to be back. The last four weeks worth of episodes were pre-recorded shows that Ian and I did and Janelle did before I left for paternity leave, and now I'm returning as a father of two.

Speaker 3:
[01:41] Congratulations.

Speaker 2:
[01:42] Thank you. It's been the best four weeks. The transition from one to two kids has not been too bad.

Speaker 3:
[01:49] Good.

Speaker 2:
[01:49] Good. It's been nice to revisit the newborn stage. It's kind of weird because it feels kind of new, but then all of those in the muscle memory kind of kicks back in and you're like, oh, I remember how to do this. And then you're just not scared, which that's been the best part of it is this time around, I'm like, oh, he's fine. He's sturdy. Like yesterday, we put him in his little bouncer and Kendall bounced him, and I had my finger down near his face and I poked him with my nail on his face. He didn't like that too much, but I was like, he's fine.

Speaker 3:
[02:29] There's no recovery.

Speaker 2:
[02:31] And then he was, he was good. But it's been a lot of fun. Kendall's doing exceptionally well, honestly. She's, she's recouping great. She's absolutely enjoying this time with their little boy. They're just snuggled up in bed. Taking contact naps and she's just loving it. I mean, she's, it's, she's enjoying having a little, little son.

Speaker 3:
[02:54] Little Josh.

Speaker 2:
[02:55] Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm hoping, you know, I was joking about, I'm like, now we've got two people to, take over Mile Higher one day.

Speaker 3:
[03:03] Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[03:04] But the fake can take over for Kendall and Truman can take over for me.

Speaker 3:
[03:07] And you guys can work the fields. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:
[03:10] Exactly. So no, it's been great. And, but it's also great to be back. I'm such a busy body that, you know, I love, definitely love having time off, but I missed, I missed this. I miss you guys. I miss everybody out there. I miss the show. And you know, like my interest in True Crime just never goes away. I always think like it's going to fade away when they, I'm like constantly, constantly looking at new cases that are coming out. And the case that we're talking about today, I actually a while back ran across it on Explore with Us, absolutely great YouTube channel. They, they go and they foil all of the interrogation footage, the case file and everything. And they do this like really in-depth look from sort of just what evidence and body cam footage they can get. And this case just absolutely blew me away because it's just David Anthony, the man we'll be talking about today along with his wife Gretchen Anthony. This guy is truly the worst.

Speaker 3:
[04:14] Yeah, in all possible ways. And I don't know, it's just, it's another situation in which we see he does so much shit leading up to it, leading up to what happens that it's almost like, how did no one see this as a possibility? How did no one think that he was on the brink? But of course, like any situation, you don't know until you're in it or until afterwards you're looking back.

Speaker 2:
[04:40] Yeah. And there's just, I mean, this guy really thought he would do what he did and somehow get away with it. I truly believe he thought he could create this master evil plan. And if he carried it out, that he would somehow be able to fool everybody and fool the authorities.

Speaker 3:
[04:59] And be good.

Speaker 2:
[05:01] And just take off head on down to Costa Rica and live out the rest of his days. This guy is a complete nut job. I mean, my God, there's something seriously wrong with him. He's evil in its purest form. But at the end of the day, Gretchen Anthony, a beautiful human being, a mother, a loving sister and daughter and just an amazing human being who's the victim in this case, it's a truly sad, truly sad story. But let's just go ahead and dive into things here. Let's start by talking about Gretchen Anthony. Gretchen, she was born Gretchen Crane on January 8th, 1969. She was initially raised in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. There's not a whole lot of information about her early life. We know that she had a twin brother and a sister, and they were primarily raised in New Jersey after her family moved to West Long Branch. She went to fashion school at Wood Tobe Coburn in New York before she returned to Monmouth University in West Long Branch for her bachelor's degree. Her first job out of college was working at the Wall Township Intermediate School in New Jersey. Around 2006, she moved to Florida and taught at several private schools, including Weiss School in Palm Beach Gardens and Wellington Preparatory School in Lake Worth. However, after eight years working in private schools, Gretchen decided to change careers and accepted an HR position with Viking Utility, an electrical contractor operating throughout the state. It was through her job that Gretchen felt she could connect with others, which was something she loved, and by all accounts, she was beloved by staff. She even became close friends with her boss, Don Paris, and the two would have regular chats outside of work hours, catch up, check in on one another, that sort of thing. According to her close friend, Kelly Hannah, Gretchen took her physical and mental health very seriously. She said, she worked out at the gym very hard. Gretchen is someone who is tremendously heart-centered. She's just radiant and just a very caring, beautiful spirit. According to everyone, Gretchen's pride and joy was her daughter, whom she shared with her first husband, Jeff. There's not a ton of info about her first marriage, only that it ended in a divorce around the early 2010s. But still by all accounts, they maintained a friendly relationship and happily co-parented their daughter together. But it was around this time that the newly single Gretchen met her new personal trainer at the local Orange Theory gym, David Anthony. Now David, his background is definitely sketchier than Gretchen's. He was born on October 7th, 1976, as David Anthony Deutsch, and he was raised in the same area where he spent his adult life over there in Palm Beach Gardens. He was cared for by a single mother, and David really suffered from low self-esteem issues, and he'd often present as a quiet and reserved person during his adolescence, and he really didn't speak to anyone unless he was spoken to. But the thing about David, he is a very tall man.

Speaker 3:
[08:03] He's gigantic.

Speaker 2:
[08:05] Six feet, seven inches tall, give or take. But he was overweight for much of his childhood, and David was an easy target for bullies at his school. Because he was so much larger than other kids his age, David wasn't allowed to join recreational sports leagues, which is kind of interesting because you feel like it'd be the opposite, but they'd want this massive guy to be on their team.

Speaker 3:
[08:26] I wonder if it's just like, at this point, it's like, no, you need to play in the pros, bro, if you're too big.

Speaker 2:
[08:31] Yeah, I don't know. Either that or he's really overweight and just couldn't move that frame around. I don't know. But as he grew into his teenage years, David struggled with severe depression and showed symptoms that his family recognized to be consistent with bipolar disorder. However, despite his family taking an interest in his mental well-being, David saw a different path forward. He devoted himself to his physical well-being more so than his mental well-being, which meant that he worked out constantly and started to develop this chiseled figure he would later become known for. He found idols in hyper masculine super heroes like Thor and felt uniquely close to the basketball player, Kobe Bryant. And I'm not saying that lightly. He really loved Kobe Bryant.

Speaker 3:
[09:15] If you know someone who loves Kobe Bryant and you think they love Kobe Bryant too much, this guy loved Kobe Bryant more than that person.

Speaker 2:
[09:22] Obviously, a very tragic end to his life.

Speaker 3:
[09:24] Right.

Speaker 2:
[09:24] I'll never forget that day. Janelle and I were actually together. We were on a mountain getaway just hanging out. I remember we were in a parking lot when we got the notification on our phones and we were all just stunned sitting there in silence. Is this real?

Speaker 3:
[09:39] It's unthinkable. He really was one of those figures, who not to get on the Kobe train, but he was one of those figures, one of those celebrities who you just think is going to be alive forever and was alive already. Was already a star by the time we were coming into our own. So it's like that death I think was shocking for her. I was in New York and people were screaming about it on the street.

Speaker 2:
[10:02] I could imagine. It's like Michael Jordan. I think it was also just the way in which he died. To die in a helicopter crash and his daughter was with him. It's just absolutely horrible and I think it's part of why it's so ingrained in all of our minds. But David was a huge fan, so much so that he named his dog a Husky, Kobe. But after high school, he earned a scholarship to play basketball, which at that size, it makes sense that you get into that sport. That's really where height matters in basketball. He got a chance to play at Eckerd College in St. Petersburg, where I think he really started experiencing this some acceptance and pride for the first time. His ego is absolutely getting boosted. He's playing college ball, and he's kind of falling in the footsteps of his idol in a strange way. And so I think that was really huge for him. And so he's kind of a local celebrity there. But all of these things going on, there's these underlying issues that are going on that he's not dealing with, that really come back to Biden for sure. Right.

Speaker 3:
[11:12] I think-

Speaker 2:
[11:12] Like this nexus.

Speaker 3:
[11:14] Yeah, exactly. So in 1997, he actually held up a blockbuster with a squirt gun and even assaulted a police officer.

Speaker 2:
[11:22] He was just like, what?

Speaker 3:
[11:24] Yeah, I know. And I-

Speaker 2:
[11:25] Blockbuster?

Speaker 3:
[11:26] What's the point? Like, you think they've got cash like that? It's not that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[11:32] Like the transactions happening at blockbuster, not big.

Speaker 3:
[11:35] 399 for your nightly rental?

Speaker 2:
[11:37] Like in your M&Ms?

Speaker 3:
[11:38] Right.

Speaker 2:
[11:41] when I heard that, I was like, why? Like, why would he- maybe he's that desperate for some cash or he thought that was an easy target? I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[11:48] I think it was probably easy target. Like you were saying before, you know, he has all these underlying mental health issues and issues surrounding pride specifically, that went unaddressed for most of his life. And then all of a sudden he starts to get recognition. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some impulse control issues there where it's like he's so used to being put down that now that he's on a high, he's like, oh, what can't I do?

Speaker 2:
[12:11] He's Thor.

Speaker 3:
[12:11] He's Thor.

Speaker 2:
[12:12] He's like kind of living out this superhero. He's like, I'm untouchable. I'm a local celebrity.

Speaker 3:
[12:17] Right.

Speaker 2:
[12:18] And I can fight with police officers. I can fight away with it.

Speaker 3:
[12:21] Yeah. And he does. He reached plea deals. So I mean, I guess he pled guilty, but he reached plea deals in both cases and served a short jail term. It was after this ordeal that he began going by his middle name, David Anthony, and soon became unrecognizable to those who had heard of David Deutsch. Even Kelly Hannah, whose kids went to the same school as David, didn't realize they were the same person. She said, it was weird that nobody realized there was a difference. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[12:48] It's interesting that he just changes his name after that.

Speaker 3:
[12:50] Right. And stays in the same area and people don't realize it's the same guy. They almost think, oh yeah, David Anthony, whatever happened to David Deutsch, this new guy is different.

Speaker 2:
[13:01] Which maybe it helps that Anthony kind of, I guess, works as a last name. So maybe they're like, and Deutsch is, I mean, I feel like that would be pretty, you know, you'd remember that if you knew him. So that was his last name, but seems like it kind of just slides on everybody's radar. And he clearly knows that, oh, now the authorities will forever tie my name to that. And every employer and every person I come to contact with, they could figure out my past. So it seems like maybe that was a move to try to move forward or he's like, oh, I fucked up, I made a big mistake. So I'm going to, but I don't want that to hold me back.

Speaker 3:
[13:37] And I think I'll drop the last name.

Speaker 2:
[13:39] Right.

Speaker 3:
[13:39] Right. I'll just go by Anthony, Deutsch's, Deutsch's passé.

Speaker 2:
[13:43] But that's not the case. He can't, he's, he's got this dark side. Absolutely. And he's got this side that he feeds, he has to come back and feed every now and then. Like as much as he tries to stay on the good path, he's always pulled back. Absolutely. Into this sort of, you know, dark side of his life, this life of crime and, and wanting, you know, taking advantage of people, as we'll see. So.

Speaker 3:
[14:09] Right. So while David may have avoided further issues with law enforcement for the time being, he had issues with women starting in his young adulthood.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[16:53] In 2010, shortly before he met Gretchen, he met a 22-year-old woman named Heidi Yeagers at a local networking event in Jupiter, Florida. The two flirted, they laughed, and sipped champagne together throughout the evening. At this point, Heidi was fresh out of college and working two jobs as a server and an insurance representative. At first, she came to believe that David had a lot of things that she wanted from a partner. He was attractive, he was charming, and he seemed, quote, relentlessly interested in her. That's something that a lot of people would say about David in the beginning of relationships is that he would almost hound them with his level of infatuation. I know to a lot of people, that's a good sign. But once again, we're looking at all this in hindsight. I see that as like, oh man, this guy is obsessive.

Speaker 2:
[17:39] Right. For what reason? Is there a control factor here? There's this power that he's trying to assert by bringing you in and bring you close.

Speaker 3:
[17:51] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[17:52] He's bombing them.

Speaker 2:
[17:53] Yeah, thank you. That's the term. I feel like this is not coming from a good place at all. I think he's using this to his advantage and his status and how he looks and everything to try to pull people in so that he can figure out how to exploit them.

Speaker 3:
[18:10] Right. I understand from Heidi's perspective, she's 22. There's this really ripped tall guy who's super into her. Of course, she's going to see that as a great thing. But I think it's important for us paying attention to the case to see this as an early warning sign as well.

Speaker 2:
[18:28] Also, I think he probably realized, and maybe it was even calculated, the whole personal training thing.

Speaker 3:
[18:35] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[18:36] And then to, as we'll see, his clientele is women, right? And so he probably realized that's a great dynamic for him because it gets him closer to what he wants.

Speaker 3:
[18:48] Absolutely. So after this first interaction, he actually offered Heidi, like Josh was saying, a free personal training session and then asked her out. Despite him being 10 years older than her, the two dated for about a year. During this year, David constantly reminded Heidi how much he was in love with her. Love bombing, basically. Which is ultimately why she ignored the number of red flags that kept piling up with her older boyfriend. Red flags like timing how long it would take her to run errands or come back home, or asking her what she ate and whether she had worked out on days they weren't together, or how he'd regularly get angry with her about going out with her friends. So here's like extreme control, extreme control of like, I'm watching what you eat, I'm watching how you work out, and I'm watching you when you're out of the house and timing it too.

Speaker 2:
[19:36] Yeah, and he's physically imposing, he's 10 years older, so he's got, it's all the powers tipping in his favor already.

Speaker 3:
[19:44] Then in November of 2010, David became very avoidant, almost like on a dime, and acted even more strangely around Heidi. One day after work, she walked through the door of his apartment, and David was there waiting. He grabbed her by the hand and got down on one knee. For a moment, Heidi thought this explained why his behavior had been so strange in the previous weeks. It was normal for him to be nervous in the days leading up to proposing to her, of course. Only this wasn't a proposal. He told Heidi that he needed to surround himself with successful people, and be with someone who took their health and fitness more seriously. He told Heidi that she was not that person. He said, I'd like to break up with you in order for you to have time to become the person I want you to be. He said this as he was still down on one knee. She responded, what the fuck is wrong with you? David said, it doesn't have to be like this, and said that this was her opportunity to grow. She said, what the fuck do you expect? You just broke up with me in the most fucked up way.

Speaker 2:
[20:43] 100 percent.

Speaker 3:
[20:44] Yeah, that's crazy. That's insane.

Speaker 2:
[20:46] Yeah. Was he trying to imitate proposing or something? To get down on one knee in that way and then be like, yeah, I need you to be better.

Speaker 3:
[20:56] I signify the importance of this moment as a relationship moment instead of a breakup moment. It makes, and then also the line, so you can become the person I want you to be. That's very telling. So in the weeks, months, and even years that followed, David tried multiple times to try and get back together with her, even as he began training and dating Gretchen.

Speaker 2:
[21:20] So keep this in mind that that's still going on to some extent. And according to the owner of David's Orange Theory gym, Tabitha Hopkins, she said, David has a huge presence, probably actually and figuratively. He's a big guy. Kelly Hannah said that when Gretchen first met David, he was a young hot trainer for sure. He was intelligent and well-spoken. He was charming. Tabitha even said that David alone brought in many new members, even though his outsized personality could be difficult to manage at times. Now Tabitha, the business owner is in a tough position because she's like, well, there's good things and bad things about him. Obviously, he's bringing in more business because women are attracted to him, and he's this big dude.

Speaker 3:
[22:06] As a personal trainer too, I mean, you walk in and you see not only this huge guy, but he's incredibly fit too. Not even from just the woman perspective of someone being attracted to him.

Speaker 2:
[22:16] It's just from a human perspective.

Speaker 3:
[22:17] From a human perspective, like, I want to look like this guy.

Speaker 2:
[22:19] Yeah, exactly. He's a model for your gym basically. Tabitha continued, there's no in-between with him. Basically, you never knew what David you were going to get. However, that didn't seem to deter Gretchen, at least in the beginning of their relationship. They seem to compliment each other perfectly. David was still soft-spoken outside the gym, admitted to his insecurities, and told Gretchen that he had struggled most of his life to find his voice. Meanwhile, she was outgoing and confident, and had spent her career helping people find their strengths. Of course, the two of them were both very active. David was a passionate outdoorsman who often spent his days off cycling, deep sea fishing, or kayaking. Meanwhile, Gretchen loved going to the beach, paddle boarding, and doing yoga. It seems like they were just different size of the same coin in a lot of ways. But in a photo posted to David's Facebook page in December 2014, Gretchen, David, and Gretchen's daughter were all snuggled closely together on a love seat. This was shortly after they had announced their engagement. Friends commented, you guys fit so perfectly together, and such a beautiful way to end the year and start a new one. Kelly Hannah said this about the relationship. She didn't have to tell anybody that there was an attraction there. There was absolute sparks. There was magic there. There was no question about it. After only a few months of engagement, the couple married at an Elvis Chapel in Las Vegas in early 2015. Kelly said they seemed like the happiest couple ever. And in addition, David seemed to be a great stepdad. Kelly said that he was the man of her dreams and added that David by all appearances was a phenomenal stepparent. She called him bonus dad. And the couple moved in together in Gretchen's Jupiter, Florida townhome. And, you know, there's some pictures of them. And, I mean, it seems like, you know, from the outside, this was she found her person. You know, she found somebody that, you know, they kind of filled out each other's strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, things really seem to kind of click together. And I mean, for Gretchen, especially somebody who could be a fatherly figure to her daughter and be there to support both of them. And in the moment at this time, it seemed like David was really fulfilling that part of it.

Speaker 3:
[24:43] And I think it's very telling to look at what her friends are saying, because friends typically are going to be the most critical of this sort of thing. And at this point in the relationship, they're all saying like, wow, you guys, this is perfect. This is a dream come true, you know?

Speaker 2:
[24:59] Yeah. Yeah, it's very telling that even the people closest to Gretchen were like, there's absolute sparks. This was very clear that they were in love. And for the first two years of their marriage, the couple seemed very happy. However, according to those close to Gretchen, she spent the next three years trying to leave the relationship. She confided in her friends that David was becoming very manic and occasionally verbally abusive. They'd even separated once for six months, but ended up getting back together. And during a particularly manic episode in 2018, David believed that the world was ending, which is just like out of nowhere.

Speaker 3:
[25:36] Right.

Speaker 2:
[25:37] He's like, okay, the world's ending. And he believed this so much so that he loaded his truck with three big bags of rice, some cookware, and 10 pairs of shoes before driving away.

Speaker 3:
[25:47] It's interesting to me that for the apocalypse, he thought he should bring more shoes than rice.

Speaker 2:
[25:53] Yeah, or just other survival supplies. What do you need 10 pairs of shoes? It was probably, he probably had some nice basketball shoes.

Speaker 3:
[26:01] I'm sure he had hella good.

Speaker 2:
[26:03] Some nice kicks that he didn't want to part with.

Speaker 1:
[26:05] Doesn't Kobe have, didn't he?

Speaker 2:
[26:07] He has a signature shoe, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[26:09] That was how I found out he died with my friend at the coffee shop who resold sneakers was like, man, I should have got these. Then he showed me the headline because he resold hella Kobe. He was like, I should have bought the new ones. Then he showed me the headline. I was like, oh fuck, Kobe Bryant died? You're telling me this through sneakersupdates.com? God.

Speaker 2:
[26:29] Yeah, it is strange though. Just some rice, some cookware and shoes though. All the things, which I think lends some to his mental state. What's he really thinking here?

Speaker 3:
[26:41] This would not be the only time he thought the world was ending.

Speaker 2:
[26:44] No.

Speaker 3:
[26:45] I think you're absolutely right. It speaks to the severity of this manic episode.

Speaker 2:
[26:50] It just doesn't make any logical sense at all. But he would return when the world indeed did not end, and his family believed that this was once again a symptom of untreated bipolar and manic depressive disorders. Although Gretchen knew her husband was struggling, she simply didn't feel equipped to help him with whatever he was going through. In December 2019, she texted a friend saying, I wish him well and hope he learns how to deal with his mental issues. I feel bad that I couldn't help, but I think he needs to learn how to love himself before he can love anyone. Something he might not experience in his lifetime, which that is a very just telling statement of where David was at this point. Like he just does not know. Also, it allows us to peek inside the relationship a little bit and see that she is obviously feeling this disconnection there and feeling like all these things that he's saying to her are empty. And she's starting to put all the pieces together of like, okay, he's got a lot. I mean, you get married to anybody, you're going to find out. Yeah, you're going to learn the good and the bad. And I think she was really starting to learn this guy, I mean, especially when he takes off saying the world's going to end, I mean, I think in any relationship, somebody who's not on board with that idea is going to be like, okay, something's going on here. And I totally understand not knowing what to do about that.

Speaker 3:
[28:24] Well, and if he's unwilling to help himself, I mean, there's only so much you can do as a partner. I mean, like you were saying before, Gretchen, through her job, but then just through her personal life, loved to be there for people. She was like a true people person. And so I'm sure that in the beginning of this relationship, not understanding how severe his untreated issues were, she was like, oh, I can get them right. But I think after the manic episode and the fact that she could pick up on his deepest insecurity, this fact that he couldn't find love for himself. I mean, that kind of speaks to just him as a person. That realization that she's found me out, I'm sure was crushing to him as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[29:08] Well, he doesn't know how else to be.

Speaker 3:
[29:11] Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:11] I mean, once you are outed in that way of like, oh, okay, she realizes that this is all empty in a lot of ways because can one love another truly if you don't love yourself?

Speaker 3:
[29:26] Right.

Speaker 2:
[29:27] So if that wasn't evidence enough of their failing relationship, Gretchen said that she would sometimes lock herself in their bedroom to get some distance between them. She texted her boss and friend Don saying, I gleaned a hit of that crazy look in his eyes. I'm watching him on the cameras and waiting for him to go to bed. Then I'll go downstairs and get a knife to put under my pillow just in case and hopefully get some sleep. So that statement right there also speaks to where the relationship was going. It was not good. There is also fear there. She's uncertain of what David will do or what he's capable of. So much so that she's outfitted cameras throughout her house so that she can monitor her husband to keep an eye on him and also creates physical separation from each other. So not a good situation at all. Then on Christmas Eve 2019, Gretchen went through David's backpack and found her wedding ring, her passport, her driver's license, her credit cards and cash all stashed away. She texted Dawn again saying that she was afraid of her husband, which rightfully so. I mean, that is very, very concerning when he's basically taken possession of her entire identity and freedom to some extent, like being able to move about freely in our world. You need all those things. Or to get away.

Speaker 3:
[30:49] To get away. And perhaps it could have been another manic episode, like, oh, we got to get away, so I got to pack her stuff in a go bag. Or it could be, these are all basically records of her existence. It's him not only controlling that away from her, but potentially also-

Speaker 2:
[31:07] Plotting something really evil.

Speaker 3:
[31:09] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[31:09] And his strange behavior wasn't just taking place at home with Gretchen, because that carried over to outbursts at work.

Speaker 3:
[31:17] So David's boss, Tabitha, explained that he had been fired at least twice for aggressive behavior specifically towards women in his training sessions. After the second firing, he persuaded Tabitha to meet him for coffee. It was during this meeting that he assured that he was working on himself and he would be attending self-improvement workshops. Eventually, Tabitha agreed that as long as he worked on his behavior, he can have his job back. She said, quote, he was difficult. I cared about him so much because he was so talented. He was great, but it was a constant chess game with him. Then by the end of December, Gretchen decided she was finished with the relationship and kicked David out of her town home before she changed the locks. So David moved back in with his mother who also lived in Jupiter, and his co-workers noticed a distinct shift in his demeanor. Previously, David would be the first one to arrive at the gym, but after the separation, he started coming in later and later, and gradually, he became more withdrawn.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[33:33] Then on January 26, 2020, David entered into another episode. Kobe Bryant had died in a helicopter crash alongside his 13-year-old daughter. David, who as we've been saying throughout this whole episode, has long since idolized Kobe, broke out into hysterics. He cried and wailed in front of his classes out of grief. When a manager offered to send him home and call in a replacement, he refused. It seemed as though he wanted everyone to know that he was hurting. Tabitha said, when Kobe Bryant passed away, something happened. You would have thought he and Kobe were best friends. He was traumatized by it.

Speaker 2:
[34:12] In fact, she said best friends. He clearly carries this relationship that he believes he has with Kobe very publicly. He's in a way that she's categorizing it as like they were best friends. They know each other, know each other exists, which is wild.

Speaker 3:
[34:36] He has a reaction as if your real life best friend died. He's wailing in front of these people. He's, and I understand, of course, we all have these strange ties with celebrities. That's the nature of, I don't know, of being- Her world. Yeah, of our world.

Speaker 2:
[34:53] Care social world, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[34:54] But I think to go to that level speaks again to potentially an unstable state, especially with his own personal life falling apart with Gretchen.

Speaker 2:
[35:04] Yeah, to do all that at work in front of clients and stuff like that, and then to not excuse yourself for the day, but to rather carry on when it's clearly not appropriate at that point. In any workplace, it'd be like, okay, maybe it's just time to head home for the day.

Speaker 3:
[35:22] Take a breath.

Speaker 2:
[35:23] Chill out a little bit. But yeah, he seems to like the attention he's getting from people. So yeah, I think that also speaks to this very emotional, very fragile state he's in. I mean, it was. It was a very traumatic thing that happened. But David seems to act like he has a personal connection to it, which is interesting.

Speaker 3:
[35:48] I wonder if that's the reason for him wanting to stick around, is to almost be like, to prove to everyone around him, no, what I had with Kobe was not just this celebrity fan relationship. You can see it in my tears and my wailing. What we had was closer and I know it.

Speaker 2:
[36:05] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[36:06] I don't know. So while living in this emotionally fragile state, David attempted to go through with the regular emotions of his day to day life. At this point in their separation, both David and Gretchen had begun to date other people. And while it's unknown who Gretchen had been seen during this time, we'll discuss David's romantic life in a bit. But it's important to note that during this time, David had become heavily involved in a self-improvement program called gratitude training, which many have accused of being a cult. Now we could probably do a whole cult episode on gratitude training, but the program has received these accusations for nearly a decade. In 2017, a man named Mark Robbins claimed that the program had exposed him and his sons to a dangerous cult. Mark claimed that he was defrauded at a retreat fundraiser, and only a day later, he was asked to leave the program after he quote, openly questioned the cult's practice of not paying students and or staff for work completed. Then after he left the cult, Mark said he witnessed one of his 19-year-old children having sex with the program staff member in their home. He also claimed that the program members coerced another one of his kids, who was also 19, to dance in a thong alongside 60 other scantily clad people. Since Mark started speaking out about the program, he found a dead rat on his doorstep, his car had been vandalized, and he received death threats.

Speaker 2:
[37:30] Yeah, sounds like a real effective motivational program.

Speaker 3:
[37:33] Right. It's insane. It's important to bring this up because this is the program that David was receiving support from, all while going through this emotionally turbulent time.

Speaker 2:
[37:45] Not good.

Speaker 3:
[37:46] Not good. Not good at all. Especially for someone who's needed treatment. Basically, as his family puts it, his whole life, he's needed some form of treatment. This is the support he gets.

Speaker 2:
[37:57] The worst place to go to.

Speaker 3:
[37:59] Right.

Speaker 2:
[38:00] Somewhere that demands thousands of dollars to get help, quote-unquote, from them.

Speaker 3:
[38:06] He refused to disclose to his family what happened during these thousand-dollar sessions, but again, if the lawsuit brings anything to mind, it's not good.

Speaker 2:
[38:17] No, it's exploitation. Right. Who knows what else? I mean, if they're doing stuff like that, you can imagine, yeah, what gratitude train, what sounds like a fucking scam, honestly.

Speaker 3:
[38:29] Definitely. I mean, looking into this, this was a while ago, but Reddit is just filled with people being like, yeah, this is a scam and they got my, typically, it was older family members to just cough away thousands of dollars.

Speaker 2:
[38:44] All in the name of gratitude.

Speaker 3:
[38:46] Mm-hmm. Thank you.

Speaker 2:
[38:47] Yeah. Jesus. For a while, David continued teaching classes at Orange Theory. However, on February 24th, 2020, he didn't show up to work and left dozens of gym members locked outside. When Tabitha confronted him, he erupted at her, she said. Tabitha fired David for the third time, and this time, it was for good. That same day, David reached out to his ex-girlfriend, Heidi over Facebook, and he asked, are you single? Want to get a drink and catch up as friends? He followed that message with another remark, noting that he had looked at her profile photo, which showed her with a boyfriend at the time. Then he sent one more message asking how much she charged for dog sitting as he was thinking about taking a trip. Heidi didn't respond to any of these messages because why the hell would she? I'm such a freak. Then only four days later, Gretchen filed for divorce. David's romantic life was failing too. On March 7th, a woman he'd been dating made a reservation for a paint and sip class. However, during the session, David attempted to feel her up in front of everyone. She obviously rejected his advances there. He jumped out of his seat, screamed at her in front of everyone, and then stormed outside. Later that evening, she drove him back to her home to pick up his truck and she explicitly told him that he was not welcome to spend the night. But when they reached her home, she was shocked by what she found inside. Duffel bags filled with David's clothes that had been laid out on her bed and dining room table. What the hell? There's also food from his mother's house that he had stashed inside the freezer, and Kobe, which again is David's dog, was running around the backyard. David essentially just attempted to move into her place without her knowledge.

Speaker 3:
[40:31] I wonder if he planned this as a huge surprise towards her, like, oh, that was an awesome pain and sip class where I was really inappropriate to you. Guess what, honey? I moved in.

Speaker 2:
[40:47] Yeah. I don't need to go anywhere.

Speaker 3:
[40:49] Right.

Speaker 2:
[40:49] Home is where you are.

Speaker 3:
[40:50] Exactly.

Speaker 2:
[40:52] That's wild behavior. As she collected his belongings, David paced outside and banged on her windows and screamed at only leaving after she called her neighborhood security company. She's just completely unhinged. A week later on March 14th, David went outside of Gretchen's house while she was sleeping in the early morning hours. She woke up to David ranting outside, yelling about the end of the world, which did seem like that for a little while because this was around the time the COVID-19 virus had become a pandemic and news of more people becoming ill and people dying from the virus had become a regular occurrence at this point. It was the announcement that we're in a full-blown pandemic that was made. Obviously, for David, this just fed into everything he had been thinking this entire time. Now, he probably felt like he had confirmation that, oh yeah, I've been saying the world's going to end and now it's actually ending. Look, I'm right. He's outside of Gretchen's house just yelling for hours, talking about escaping to Costa Rica before the world actually ended. She let him continue for a few hours, then gave in and invited him inside. Later that evening, police received a report that a man was following a group of teenage girls outside the Riviera Beach Shopping Center. When an officer arrived, guess who they found? David. He was visibly nervous and sweaty, pacing around and approaching the group of teenagers. What is this guy doing? When the officer noticed that David's license plate was partially obscured by black electrical tape, they confronted him. David was defensive, yelling that his 12-year-old daughter had put the tape on his license plate. Okay, sure. On top of that, despite numerous warnings, David refused to stop moving. David then opened the door of his truck and began rummaging around. Officers are obviously not liking any of these actions that he's doing. So the officer then trained his gun on David and ordered him to the ground. They're like, dude, we need to, yeah. Because they don't know what he's doing. You'll be reaching for a gun. He's acting real sketchy. When another officer arrived, David leaped from the pavement, dove headfirst into his truck and reached for his driver's side floorboard. One of the officers grabbed David's leg, but he slammed the car repeatedly on her arm. So now he's assaulting the police officer yet again.

Speaker 3:
[43:09] Violently with his vehicle.

Speaker 2:
[43:10] He's lucky he didn't get shot, honestly. Eventually, he was arrested for resisting arrest with violence and posted bail a few days later. When officers looked me at the driver's seat where David had been reaching around, they discovered a large bowie knife. So he's like, what would he have done? Was he going to try to attack these cops? It's very possible.

Speaker 3:
[43:33] Well, and he obviously, as we know, he has a history of attacking police before, and so it's just, I don't know what goes through someone's mind aside from complete delusion thinking I can grab this bowie knife and use it to get my way out of this interaction with law enforcement. That's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:51] I mean, he's not thinking clearly at all. I mean, I think he's so deep into the world's ending, that he just maybe just doesn't care.

Speaker 3:
[44:04] My actions don't matter anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:06] So we can even show you some of this body cam footage, pretty wild.

Speaker 4:
[44:10] Video from a Riviera Beach police officer's body worn camera shows police arresting David Anthony of Jupiter.

Speaker 5:
[44:16] No, no.

Speaker 6:
[44:18] Turn him around.

Speaker 5:
[44:23] Get out. Get out.

Speaker 6:
[44:26] Get him. I got him at gunpoint.

Speaker 4:
[44:27] Get out of the car. What's he got? What's he got in his hand? Drop it. Drop it.

Speaker 7:
[44:34] Whatever it is, drop it.

Speaker 4:
[44:35] According to the arrest report, 43 year old David Anthony of Jupiter was at the Ocean Mall on Singer Island, acting suspiciously, approaching young girls about 15 years old, pacing back and forth and sweating profusely.

Speaker 6:
[44:47] Stop resisting me.

Speaker 4:
[44:49] Sir, blood on your face.

Speaker 7:
[44:51] I don't like an airplane. Hands out like an airplane.

Speaker 2:
[44:55] Flat down.

Speaker 4:
[44:56] The video shows police got Anthony face down on the ground in the parking lot. Bring your other hand back.

Speaker 7:
[45:01] Okay, sir.

Speaker 4:
[45:02] Yes.

Speaker 8:
[45:02] I'll do whatever you say.

Speaker 4:
[45:03] I'll do whatever you say.

Speaker 6:
[45:04] I'll do whatever you say.

Speaker 8:
[45:05] I'll do whatever you say.

Speaker 5:
[45:06] Oh, man. I smacked my arm.

Speaker 4:
[45:08] He's good.

Speaker 5:
[45:09] I just grabbed him so hard because he was reaching for something.

Speaker 4:
[45:12] What he was reaching for is not clear.

Speaker 5:
[45:14] I literally had to body slam myself in your car to drag you out.

Speaker 4:
[45:18] While waiting for paramedics to get there, the female officer tells a fellow officer on video what happened.

Speaker 5:
[45:23] I went to grab the guy. He got up and jumped in his car, and as he jumped in his car, I grabbed him and he slammed the door on my arm, and I went like this and just yanked him out.

Speaker 4:
[45:34] That night, Rivier Beach Police arrested Anthony for resisting, obstructing, or opposing an officer with violence.

Speaker 5:
[45:40] He was not getting away from me.

Speaker 2:
[45:42] As March continued, the COVID-19 pandemic spread across the country, with its first cases on the East and West Coast moving inland. States were beginning to shut down. As we all remember, the economy was starting to tumble, and the case numbers were starting to tick up. And to David, this was in fact the end of the world. He kept rambling to anyone about the fresh start awaiting him in Costa Rica. He invited his friends, former colleagues, and any girls still talking to him to join him on the 3,500 mile journey. The last person David spoke to, aside from his mom who he lived with, was a distant relative nicknamed Mitch. And Mitch said this about the relationship. When he needs somebody in life, he managed to find me, find the comfort he needed, and then disappear again. And that's fine. I'm not a chaser. I'm not going to chase you to have a relationship with you. Mitch met with David on March 19th for lunch at Colombino Italian Bakery in Delhi, and Mitch could clearly see that David was feeling bad. Mitch didn't know about the divorce and asked how things were with Gretchen. And David just responded, not great. And while reflecting on this final conversation, Mitch said that David had always been exceptionally insecure and reserved, constantly overanalyzing social situations, and terrified of saying the wrong thing. Mitch told David, a closed mouth does not get fed. Although David did not open up about his issues any further after this. So just, you know, everybody's noticing.

Speaker 3:
[47:16] Everybody's noticing and everybody's trying to help him too. Everybody's like from his family when he was a young man, like trying to be like, oh, let's, let's get you treatment for this. Like, no, I'm just going to hit the gym instead to Gretchen, to Mitch. There's all these people who are openly offering support. And he's not looking for support. He's looking for people to justify him basically. Yeah. Just be like, all right, man. No supporters. Right. Right. Like not, you don't work on yourself. You're good. That's all he wants to hear. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[47:48] It's really interesting to hear. He's trying to recruit people to go to Costa Rica. Like, what are you going to do? Go start a, you know, calm you down in Costa Rica. It's so weird. Like he's, who knows what other ideas he has. But his bottom line, he's spiraling.

Speaker 3:
[48:02] He's spiraling. And as he continued to spiral, Gretchen was moving on. She had been dating again and was still successfully co-parenting with her first husband, Jeff. And as the pandemic raged, Gretchen did not share David's doomsday feeling. She posted almost every day on Facebook, you know, posting informational videos about COVID and how to stay safe. She asked for TV recommendations after watching Wolfshits Creek and Gate of Thrones. She posted a meme that said, does anyone else feel like life is being written by a fourth grader right now? There was the virus and everyone was scared and the world ran out of toilet paper and then there was no school. So, you know, David is living in the apocalypse and Gretchen is just like finding ways to cope at home.

Speaker 2:
[48:44] Totally. And I mean, major, major difference there.

Speaker 3:
[48:48] Major difference. And on March 19th, while David was getting lunch with his relative, Gretchen posted this quote, When chaos is all around you, the wisest choice is to create peace within you. However, these were the last words that Gretchen posted on her Facebook. After that, all of her online activity would go dark. Dawn Paris, Gretchen's boss and close friend, learned that Gretchen had been feeling sick and texted her briefly on Sunday, March 22nd. However, Gretchen said she'd be well enough to go to work the following Monday, which was March 23rd. When Gretchen didn't check in at work, Dawn became very concerned. She texted Gretchen saying, Gretchen, are you okay? When she didn't receive a response, Dawn texted once again saying, Hi, please let me know if you need something. I'm really worried about you. Finally, the next day, March 24th, Gretchen responded. She said that she'd gone to the emergency room and passed out in the hospital after she recorded a 102 degree fever alongside low oxygen levels. Because the situation seemed dire, Gretchen explained that she had been transferred to an off-site CDC facility in Belle Glade. If you're Don, you're reading all this, you're like, my best friend or my close friend is going through something very, very severe.

Speaker 2:
[50:02] Yeah, it comes across as she could be dying.

Speaker 3:
[50:05] Right.

Speaker 2:
[50:06] She's at the hospital and now they're transferring her to a CDC facility and you really have to put yourself back in this time because I think like now you might look at it like that's really strange. What do you mean going to a CDC facility? What does that even mean? But during the time of the pandemic, I mean, I think we all would have probably looked at them and been like, oh, wow. Yeah, there's CDC facilities. Maybe they're quarantining. Maybe this is something really, really serious that they need to diagnose further or they're unsure. It could be some variant or something associated with the COVID-19 virus that they can't even have inside of the hospital. Right.

Speaker 3:
[50:47] They have to take it to an office. I mean, I remember even my college student union during COVID was turned into a CDC facility, like a makeshift one. It's not outside of the realm of possibility that she would be taken to this offsite facility somewhere else.

Speaker 2:
[51:03] Right. For a quarantine or whatever. So it might seem unusual now, but then it really wasn't.

Speaker 3:
[51:11] Right. All you'd be worried about is, is my friend going to die?

Speaker 2:
[51:15] Yeah. I mean, you're seeing the news and a lot of people did die. So you'd definitely be concerned. But at the end of the day, this is a message from Gretchen supposedly.

Speaker 3:
[51:25] Right. So Gretchen wrote, tested positive for coronavirus early this morning. That's the bad news. But I'm at a CDC coronavirus treatment facility that only handles COVID cases. The good news is that my blood type could be used in the cure. Not sure if you remember me saying that I have a strain of mad cow disease in my blood. Well, that strain is significant in gathering more answers to find a cure. For safety purposes, Dr. Sinclair and her team are strongly recommending that we maintain contact with immediate family members only. I'm using my mom. So, once again, a strange, I mean saying my blood could be used in the cure is pretty insane, but she's backing up by saying this mad cow disease, that I have it in my blood. So in reading, you're like, okay, I guess that makes sense. I mean, like you're saying, it's the beginning of COVID. No one knows what this thing is at all.

Speaker 2:
[52:19] Yeah, and to name drop the doctor.

Speaker 3:
[52:22] Right.

Speaker 2:
[52:22] Dr. Sinclair is advising. So based on that message, it all seemed pretty legit. Like is it a little weird? Sure. And I think for her friend, it was absolutely like a little weird. They're like, this doesn't necessarily sound exactly like her or, you know, maybe they felt a little off by it. But because of the situation at hand in the world, they were like, yeah, absolutely could be happen. At my house, I am the chef and I love to cook. I cook at least four nights a week and I always try to make sure I'm given my family healthy protein packed meals and there's no other protein provider that I trust than ButcherBox. ButcherBox is the best way to get high quality proteins delivered straight to your door. No grocery shopping required. They just send it right to your front door. You put it in the fridge, in the freezer, and you've got all the meats and proteins you need for the family or for yourself. Maybe you just love ribs. Well, they got ribs all day long. They got steaks, they got chicken, they got seafood, you name it. ButcherBox has it. I've been very impressed with the quality. I'm a meat connoisseur. I love steak. I cook steak probably at least once a week, if not twice a week. But there's always a protein on my plate, whether it's salmon, whether it's chicken, whether it's barbecue ribs, what have you. I'm also kind of a grill master, to be honest with you. And my family absolutely loves all the proteins from ButcherBox. And what's great is that as my family grows, which I have a little boy now, it's only a matter of time before he's gonna be mowing down on the meat with his dad. And so I can always scale that up, scale it down. It's super simple, it's super customizable, and they deliver over 100 premium protein options, including 100% grass-fed beef, free-range organic chicken, crepe-free pork, and wild-caught seafood. And it's all responsibly raised and thoughtfully sourced, so you're not gonna be guessing what's on your plate, because there are so many providers, you don't know where that meat's coming from. It's mystery meat. You don't know what kind of conditions that meat was raised in. So make sure you're getting good quality from good sources, and ButcherBox does all that for you. Every product meets the same rigorous standards, non-necessary additives, no artificial ingredients, no mystery fillers, just responsibly sourced, nutrient-dense protein that actually does its job, because protein's great. Helps keep you full, helps keep you lean, helps keep you growing if you're a child. And my daughter loves meat. She's, her favorite food is breakfast sausage. She's all about the sausage, and so I've always got to make sure I got sausage on hand, because that's her favorite food. What's great is that ButcherBox is certified B-Core, meaning it's committed to doing the right things, from how animals are raised to how their team supports workers and reduces environmental impact. Because you are what your food eats, and sourcing absolutely matters. Plus, every box ships for free and members get access to recipes, tips, and exclusive deals that make eating clean, high-quality protein simple, consistent, and actually doable. I love it, love the selection, love the quality most of all. It's all been delicious. I use their proteins all the time for meals at my house, and now you can too. I've got a special offer for you. As an exclusive offer, new listeners can get their choice between chicken breast or top sirloin for a year or ground beef for life, plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com/milehigher. That's right, your choice of chicken breast or top sirloin for a year or ground beef for life. Maybe you love sloppy joes. This is the best offer for you, plus $20 off your first box and free shipping, always. That's butcherbox.com/milehigher. And don't forget to use our link, please. So they know we sent you. At that same time, Gretchen's first husband, Jeff, had been caring for their daughter in his Jupiter home. He also began receiving these strange texts from Gretchen, saying that the CDC had quarantined her and that she may even be placed in a medically induced coma. But Jeff, he wasn't buying this at all. He called BS. He examined the text and noticed that they were full of bad grammar and punctuation. They also used a lot of shorthand and abbreviations, something Gretchen never did. And that's something that's always interesting in cases is when there's text messages that supposedly come from a loved one, and you don't think that the people closest to them know how they text. Like we all know how our loved ones text, because you text them enough, you just kind of, or your friends, you just know.

Speaker 3:
[57:03] You know how they talk. I mean, I feel like if I were to get like a text from my mom, that suddenly use like B and the number four for B4, I'd be like, okay, who the talking to me right now? Right, right.

Speaker 2:
[57:14] You're like, my mom always spells it out, right? Or uses proper grammar and punctuation. Or there's some friends who type like in some alien language. And you have to decipher it. It's like a code. So it's as easy as it may seem to replicate someone's text messaging style. It's a little bit harder, especially those who have constant communication with them like Jeff did. However, he did know someone who texted like that, Gretchen's second husband, David Anthony. Very suspicious. As it seems like Gretchen's condition was worsening, friends and family found it very odd that no one, not even Gretchen's beloved daughter, had received an actual phone call from her despite these supposedly dire circumstances. Very strange, right? Why if something like that is happening where it sounds like it could be leading to, not only a medically induced coma, but I may die from this, why on earth would she not call her loved ones?

Speaker 3:
[58:20] Or have some sort of, I mean, I remember during COVID, they'd be going up to the window sometimes in the hospital to wave down. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:27] Visitors or something.

Speaker 3:
[58:29] Right. If cases were serious, like the doctors weren't just going to leave the family in the dark like this, they were trying to help, they were trying to provide care for everybody. I don't know, for me, I'd be like, this is very, very strange. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:45] It's definitely starting to peak those closest to her suspicions a bit. On March 24th, Gretchen's family decided to research this supposed CDC center in Belglade, Florida. Didn't take them long. They found out pretty quick that nothing like that existed. It was at this point they knew that someone was impersonating Gretchen using her cell phone. At this point, the family reached out to the authorities to request a welfare check on Gretchen Anthony. Detective Jared Kenerson got the call while he was working a night shift and he reached out to the Jupiter Medical Center, which was the first hospital that Gretchen had supposedly visited after her condition worsened. However, he learned that they did not have any recent records for Gretchen Anthony being there, and that the only time she had ever signed into their ER was in 2008, 12 years ago.

Speaker 3:
[59:39] Right.

Speaker 2:
[59:40] So, he knows immediately. He's like, okay, this is really, really strange.

Speaker 3:
[59:44] Also speaks to how good the records are at that hospital. They still have reports from 2008. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[59:51] It was nice they helped out the detective real quickly. He was able to make the determination like, oh, she definitely did not check in there like the text messages said. At this point, Detective Kenerson knew things were starting to get more serious here. So he met with Gretchen's first husband, Jeff, at the hospital, and together, they discovered something very eerie in the parking lot. It was Gretchen's Mini Cooper, and it was just parked there. What was weird is that her purse was just sitting in plain sight inside the vehicle. As of March 26, 2020 had been five days since anyone had seen Gretchen. Jupiter Police drove to her neighborhood, hoping to find any clues in or around her home. However, to their surprise, one of the clues actually came to them, because a neighbor came up and asked if they were investigating the attack that had happened a few days earlier, on March 21. So let's take a look at that clip.

Speaker 9:
[60:46] Well, because on Saturday morning, I guess it was Saturday because of the pictures, but I heard, I was asleep upstairs in my room, and I heard a really serious woman scream, like just screaming, like she was being attacked, but she wasn't saying help, she wasn't saying anything like that, and I thought maybe it's kids in the neighborhood or something. My windows were open. I can't really tell where it's coming from, but it really sounded like it was coming from that alley, right behind my house.

Speaker 7:
[61:16] So that alley would be behind 1302 Sunshine Drive.

Speaker 9:
[61:21] Absolutely. Then I was ignoring it, like maybe it was just kids or something, and then it didn't stop, and then I heard her scream no, and then I heard something about it hurts, stop it, and then I got up and came outside and walked down the alley, and then saw a truck backed in that I didn't recognize. It backed in a couple of doors down. It just sounded like it was coming from here, and I went and just waited outside. I was outside for about 15 minutes. I didn't hear anything else. The truck was running. It wasn't, there wasn't anybody in it. The truck was running. I took pictures of the truck just in case. The scream was really serious, and then I didn't call the police. Then I went back inside, and then later in the morning, I saw the same truck parked on Mallory, outside my neighbor's house, and I was able to get the... I just took a picture of it. I just took a picture of the license plate just in case something had to happen. So then when we saw you guys out here, somebody was out here yesterday, somebody was out here today, and I assumed I had to do something with that. So that's why I came out to tell you guys.

Speaker 2:
[62:38] Police then became even more concerned when another neighbor informed them that he had noticed a soapy substance that had flowed from underneath Gretchen's garage door. Yeah. Weird, right? Who's just got soapy substance coming out of a garage that isn't open?

Speaker 3:
[62:56] Right. I mean, that's the main thing, is if you're cleaning your garage with a hose or whatever.

Speaker 2:
[63:00] You don't let that air out.

Speaker 3:
[63:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[63:01] Dry. No, it's seeping out from underneath. It's very weird and it's going to make anybody be like, what's going on? In addition, investigators found signs of forced entry on the exterior of her home. The entrance door that led from her patio into the garage had been locked with the key broken off inside of the deadbolt. Seems like either somebody really pushed that key in there or somebody attempted to disable that lock. But obviously, not going to stop police from getting inside. They bust into the garage and inside, there are no signs of Gretchen. However, it was very apparent that there is a strong smell of a cleaning agent that had permeated throughout this entire garage. So they're like, okay, soapy substance now identified, probably bleach or something along those lines, some really strong chemical. And as they searched the remainder of the home, investigators found evidence that suggested a violent struggle had taken place. This included a broken picture frame, shards of glass on Gretchen's bed, and a towel stained with a dark red substance. Investigators referred to this as BLS or a blood-like substance. So obviously, they're now very concerned and they're going to send it off to figure out what that is exactly. And while these small clues were helpful, they still had no idea where Gretchen was, or who this person had come in and committed this attack was. That was until they discovered pictures that neighbors had taken of Gretchen's house after the struggle, which revealed a black Nissan pickup truck in her driveway. And of course, as we know, who had a pickup truck and who had this black Nissan pickup truck? No one other than David Anthony. As a result, investigators asked Gretchen's family about her relationship with David, and they revealed that after her divorce, she had installed cameras throughout the house as a security measure in case he ever returned. When investigators tried to locate these cameras, they found that they had been removed from the walls. Very suspicious as well.

Speaker 3:
[65:08] Someone is doing a very haphazard job of cleaning the scene there. I'm pulling cameras from the wall, they're cleaning with bleach, they're breaking keys off in the lock.

Speaker 2:
[65:17] It's really going to be more obvious that something happened here. Obviously, they didn't have the physical cameras themselves, but they were able to get a search warrant, and they were able to reach out to the camera companies and get the footage from the cloud, because all of these internet-connected cameras all back up to the cloud these days. So just because you ripped down a physical camera off the wall, chances are you did not even come close to deleting that footage.

Speaker 3:
[65:45] It still is out there.

Speaker 2:
[65:46] It's out there, and it is accessible by law enforcement.

Speaker 3:
[65:49] While investigators waited for the footage, they continued following David's trail, going back to his mother's home where he had been living since December 2019. When David's mother, Susan Warner, answered the door, she said that she had also been in contact with Gretchen since she's tested positive for COVID. So his mom is even like, oh Gretchen, yes, she's got COVID. She's at the CDC facility in Belle Glade. However, when they asked her where David was, she explained that on March 24th, he packed up his truck, put Kobe in the back seat, and hit the road, headed for Costa Rica. This had been three days after Gretchen first disappeared. At this point, not only was David a suspect, considering that his car was seen in Gretchen's driveway, but now authorities had reason to believe he was fleeing the country. The pressure to find him was mounting. This suspicion only increased when they discovered a video retrieved from the Jupiter Medical Center parking lot. It depicted Gretchen's Mini Cooper entering the lot, followed by a tall figure that walked away from the vehicle. David, as we previously mentioned, was around six feet seven or even six feet eight. This figure matched the height description.

Speaker 2:
[66:57] Which in video footage would be very easy to tell.

Speaker 3:
[67:00] Very easy to tell.

Speaker 2:
[67:01] I mean, probably helped that Gretchen had a Mini Cooper, because it's also a very recognizable vehicle. They knew right away, they're like, this is obviously Gretchen's vehicle, and then who's this massive guy walking away from it? Well, there's not tons of six foot seven dudes walking around. So the person that makes most sense, obviously David Anthony, and we can't find him.

Speaker 3:
[67:26] And just as investigators are trying to track David, they found that Gretchen's phone was pinging off of a cell tower in Pensacola, Florida, nearly 600 miles away from Jupiter. Not only that, but David's phone pinged in tandem with Gretchen's before they both went dark again. A paper trail also helped investigators track David on his route. Cameras in numerous jewelry stores recorded as David entered, attempting to sell women's jewelry. So we're talking about all the incriminating things that David is doing. He likely has her cell phone at this point, and now he's trying to sell women's jewelry. Where else would he have gotten it from on his massive road trip to try to get to Costa Rica?

Speaker 2:
[68:10] Not doing a very good job of evading, no, being identified or being located.

Speaker 3:
[68:16] It all seems like he wants them on his trail, and I don't think that's the case, but he's doing everything.

Speaker 2:
[68:22] Everything should be found.

Speaker 3:
[68:23] Right.

Speaker 2:
[68:24] It's making it pretty obvious. But I mean, not the brightest guy, by any means. No, no. He thought he could just rip cameras off the walls, and that would cover up his tracks.

Speaker 3:
[68:34] He'd be good.

Speaker 2:
[68:36] I mean, let's just start with the fact that you're this massive guy, and you're going to get picked up on any video footage, and to even think that you could go plant her vehicle at a hospital parking lot and not get picked up on camera.

Speaker 3:
[68:50] He's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[68:50] He's so dumb.

Speaker 3:
[68:52] Again, I think it speaks, like we've been saying this whole time, to his mental state. That's not what he's thinking about. He's not thinking about getting caught because the world's ending. He's trying to just get away. One store owner remembered that David came in, wanted to sell some jewelry that had been left to him by a family member who had died from COVID-19. The COVID lie just keeps on rolling.

Speaker 2:
[69:13] Yeah, he really, really milked that.

Speaker 3:
[69:16] But one glaring issue is that despite all these road stops, David was the only one pictured in the security footage. Gretchen was nowhere to be seen. With David on the run, investigators knew they had to catch up with him before it was too late. They continued to track David and Gretchen's phones as they moved across Texas, both briefly pinged before they turned off again. Detective Kenerson issued a bolo on David's truck as his phone pinged in Pecos, Texas on March 27, 2020. At this point, he was 1600 miles away from Jupiter. The very next day, David's phone pinged in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and in a surprising turn of events, he spoke to Detective Kenerson on the phone. David told investigators that Gretchen was alive and not in danger, though he insisted that she wasn't comfortable speaking with them. He said she had provided him with a written statement that said, she had discovered financial malfeasance at her workplace, and was fleeing Florida with David for safety.

Speaker 2:
[70:18] Yeah, this is one of the wildest things that he does, that he all of a sudden spins this conspiracy theory about to try to create further, which he's already told everybody she's at a CDC facility. But then he realizes, okay, they aren't buying that, they've already figured that out. Now she's fleeing her company because she found some sketchy business dealing or whatnot that was going on. And now her life is in jeopardy because of her work, which is insane.

Speaker 3:
[70:47] Insane. And it's just more because it's like, why would someone, even if they did find some sketchy shit going on with their company, why would that mean, okay, I have to lie to my friends and family, to my own daughter? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[71:00] I need to leave my daughter and go to Costa Rica with this guy to get away.

Speaker 3:
[71:05] It's insane.

Speaker 2:
[71:05] Yeah, it makes no sense.

Speaker 3:
[71:07] But according to David, she was also afraid of her first husband, Jeff, which there's absolutely no proof of anything. They like totally happy co-parenting situation for almost a decade.

Speaker 2:
[71:21] Yeah. And you'll see this pop up later on. He definitely likes to try to make Jeff look like the bad guy here and that he's somehow the hero once again. But Detective Kenerson, good detective, not buying this BS that David is giving him. He's like, what are you talking about? He's not trusting any of this information. He reached out to Los Cruces PD to orchestrate a traffic stop in order to obtain David's truck. On March 29th, that's exactly what they did. They stopped David, they questioned him and told them that they had a warrant for his vehicle. What's interesting is that while he had just told Jupiter detectives that Gretchen had been with him, he told the Los Cruces police officers that she was at a CDC facility getting treatment for coronavirus. He's like, these guys don't know what's going on. There's body cam footage of this, which we don't have unfortunately, but explore with us. Definitely should check out their video because they've got all the body cam footage. You can just hear him. He thinks he's going to fool these cops. The cops are like, that's weird. I'm just talking about this situation, but they go ahead and they get his truck and they find Gretchen's phone along with all of that removed camera equipment, all these Blink cameras and two Amazon Echo devices. But David's like, no, those are mine.

Speaker 3:
[72:39] Yeah. I know they're all damaged and destroyed. They look ripped out of the wall, but it's mine.

Speaker 2:
[72:44] I smashed them on the ground, but yeah, no, they're mine. So you bought these and yeah. He thinks he's fooling people at this point. He thinks he's fooling everybody, but no, he's just a fucking idiot, honestly. Yeah. Another thing I've been trying to do this year is workout more. In the past, it has always been such a mystery on what workouts to do, what different exercises to do to make sure you're maximizing your time and getting the best results. And there's so many different sources for workouts. I mean, I get delivered and served all sorts of gym content all the time on all my social media feeds. And it can be very confusing because I'll get conflicting exercises or just conflicting information, where I'll get served content that's not for somebody like myself at all. It'll be for a bodybuilder. And so I need help. And that's where LADR comes in clutch because LADR is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. 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But at this point, they did not have enough evidence, which is crazy, to arrest David yet. He was allowed to walk free just without his truck. For the next two days, it seems like David just hung around Las Cruces and he was out on foot. He was actually out walking his dog, Kobe. On March 30th, 2020, Jupiter Police finally received the electronic recording from Gretchen's security cameras. They finally got all of that data back, and they were able to start reviewing portions of that footage. Sure enough, in that footage, a tall figure can be seen hiding in the shadows of Gretchen's patio waiting to ambush her. When Gretchen appeared on the patio, she asked the figure, what are you doing? Then this figure attacked her, forcing her into the garage. Literally, they can see on the footage, this guy covering her mouth, dragging her into the garage. Off camera, she could be heard screaming. She shouted to her Alexa device, Alexa, turn on the garage light. Before she shouted, Alexa, call 911. She attempted to yell one more time, but within moments, Gretchen Anthony was dead. Which one thing with a lot of these devices is that they aren't just by default set up to call 911 if you call out to it. That was unfortunately, the situation with Gretchen's Alexa device, that it was not set up to call 911. So it's so sad and honestly chilling to hear that she's calling out for help, and unfortunately, it didn't do what she thought it was going to do for her. Then in the footage moments later, the tall figure was revealed to be David, because he just stared right into the cameras in the garage. They have a perfect screenshot of his face. There's no question about it. This is David Anthony. There's also one shot where Gretchen's blood-soaked head could be seen behind him as he nervously walked back and forth in the garage after he murdered her.

Speaker 3:
[78:13] Yeah. So it's just completely, there's no other way around this. He murdered her, and it's as clear as day in this footage.

Speaker 2:
[78:24] So obviously, once investigators review this footage, it becomes very clear exactly what happened here, and they were able to obtain a warrant for David's arrest. But David, he's back over in New Mexico, and the authorities were out canvassing the area looking for him. However, David had been in contact with Detective Kenerson asking when he might be able to get his truck back. Detective Kenerson, without David knowing, had flown out to New Mexico to join in the search in locating him. Just before midnight on March 31st, Detective Kenerson arrested David outside of a convenience store in Las Cruces and Kobe was taken to an animal shelter. However, even with David in custody, the question remained, where was Gretchen? Because they now knew that Gretchen was deceased at this point, but they still had no idea where she was located.

Speaker 3:
[79:15] David, unfortunately, would use this to his advantage. When Detective Kenerson first questioned David in Las Cruces, he maintained that Gretchen was still alive. He kept telling the corporate malfeasance story, and that the two had driven separate vehicles. According to David, Gretchen ditched him in El Paso.

Speaker 2:
[79:34] Yet her Mini Cooper is in the hospital parking lot. Right. So what vehicle? She just got a random rental?

Speaker 3:
[79:40] This is also when he's still saying that, Jeff, she's on the run from Jeff and I'm rescuing her from this crazy guy. That's the other thing for Detective Kenerson. He gets extremely frustrated later on. I can understand why, because it's like, as someone who knows the in and outs of this story, has done excellent work putting all the pieces together, just to watch this guy lie in front of you must be maddening.

Speaker 2:
[80:08] Yeah. Probably one of the worst parts of the job I can imagine, is you've got this guy with the most solid evidence possible. Video, photo evidence of what he did, and yet, he's trying to convince you otherwise. He thinks he's doing a good job of it too, and it's obviously just a bunch of bullshit.

Speaker 3:
[80:29] Total bullshit. When the detectives explained to David that there was no record of Gretchen having COVID and that they had caught him planting her car at the medical center, he lied and said, oh, she had me do it. Finally, when they told David they had footage of him murdering Gretchen, he just kept repeating, she's still alive, she's still alive. Tensions rose as David kept denying. When they showed him a photo of Gretchen's daughter, he said he loved her dearly, but still lied, saying Gretchen was alive. We have footage of this interrogation.

Speaker 2:
[81:04] Yeah, courtesy of Explore With Us. This will piss you off. I mean, this will give you everything you need to know about David. In this short clip.

Speaker 6:
[81:15] Does that look like you? Could be. That is you, cleaning up her garage after there was an incident there, stepping over her body with a shovel.

Speaker 8:
[81:31] So you see.

Speaker 6:
[81:32] So I say. Here is a small photo of Gretchen, deceased with your face up here.

Speaker 8:
[81:49] That doesn't look like Gretchen.

Speaker 6:
[81:50] That doesn't look like Gretchen. Gretchen's alive.

Speaker 8:
[81:52] I told you that already.

Speaker 10:
[81:54] Ava's a nervous wreck right now. She can't sleep, she can't eat.

Speaker 8:
[81:58] Do not use Ava.

Speaker 6:
[82:00] No, we are, because that's what's left. Well, she doesn't have to worry because her mother is still alive. Alive.

Speaker 10:
[82:09] You put your hand over her mouth and dragged her into the garage.

Speaker 6:
[82:13] It's on video, David.

Speaker 10:
[82:15] You might want to think that, David, because you don't want to face the facts of what you did.

Speaker 6:
[82:19] I was trying to warn her.

Speaker 10:
[82:21] Okay, you put your hand I was trying to warn her. Over her mouth.

Speaker 6:
[82:25] I was trying to warn her.

Speaker 10:
[82:26] As you dragged her into the garage, then bleached down the driveway. But unfortunately for you, the cadaver dog hit on the garage and we found blood spatter. So there's no way that she's alive.

Speaker 3:
[82:42] Finally, Detective Kenerson left the room, eventually returning with a more friendly demeanor. He played an audio recording of Gretchen's daughter, begging David to tell them where they could find her mother. Still, that did not affect him. Finally, Detective Kenerson called David a monster. David responded by saying that the detective had not done his homework, and then he asked for a lawyer. In the months that followed, a grand jury convened and indicted David on a kidnapping charge, in addition to raising the murder charge to first degree, putting him at risk for the death penalty. However, without Gretchen's body, it seemed like David was going to have leverage if the FDA ever wanted to enter into plea negotiations. And in December 2020, that's exactly what they did. They worked out a deal for David to reveal the location of Gretchen's body in exchange for pleading guilty to second degree murder and a sentence of 38 years in prison. He finally admitted guilt on December 21st, nine months after Gretchen first went missing.

Speaker 2:
[83:44] Which part of this to this push for a plea deal and obviously one of the biggest motivating factors for making a deal with him is Gretchen's family just wants Gretchen. They want to know, they want to be able to give her a proper burial and memorial and have that closure. And I think they knew, at this point, they knew who this guy was. They knew this guy's absolute monster and he would keep that from them forever if they ended up pursuing that first degree murder charge and death penalty. And so I think the family really urged the DA to try and make a deal in exchange for providing the location of her remains.

Speaker 3:
[84:31] And I wouldn't be surprised that David, as unstable as he was, as delusional as he was, if part of not telling them where she was, was also feeding into this own lie, he was telling himself of, oh no, she's so alive, I didn't do this.

Speaker 2:
[84:47] Totally, yeah. I think that's a very real possibility that he's like, well, without a body, that she could be alive, for all I know.

Speaker 3:
[84:54] I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[84:55] Yeah. And I mean, I think this was the right call.

Speaker 3:
[84:59] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[85:00] I think it was the right call to give the family what they wanted. I appreciate that the DA really listened to the family and tried to make that happen for them because they were able to retrieve Gretchen's remains. Detectives found her buried four feet underground. David had gone out to this random area back behind a Walmart. It was also next to a retirement home. I don't know exactly whose property was on, but it was in this ditch area. And it seems like it was in a lowered elevation where David might have been able to get in there without being seen.

Speaker 3:
[85:35] Right. I mean, it's right off the road.

Speaker 2:
[85:36] Yeah. There's definitely people around, which is crazy. But he brought her out there, then buried her in a grave. And after the autopsy was performed, it was determined that Gretchen had died from stab wounds to her neck and torso. Just brutal. Examiners also noticed defensive wounds indicating that Gretchen had fought for her life in her final moments. And luckily, David was sentenced on January 14, 2021, to 38 years in prison, which honestly, I was, you know, when I first was like, Oh no, the plea deal, because sometimes they get these crazy deals that ultimately they still virtually gave him a life sentence without giving him a life sentence. During the sentencing, Gretchen's sister, Sarah Carey, spoke out publicly for the first time in the case, and she said, You used what you did to negotiate something for yourself. You are pure evil. You stole a mother away from her child, a daughter away from her mother. You are a monster. You are a coward, and you can never be forgiven. Then David, he was allowed to make a statement as well, and the bizarreness just doesn't end. David blamed the pandemic alongside his illusions of Armageddon and the use of medical marijuana for what he did. We actually have a clip of the sentencing, so let's take a look at that now.

Speaker 8:
[87:02] I could take in years to prepare this statement, and it still would not break, but it's from the heart. I understand my actions weigh heavy on the hearts of many in attendance today. So what do you say in a situation like this? How can my words have any weight even my crime? When will the pain end knowing that I'm the cause of it? Coming from me, what word can console a family who has lost someone so dear, so tragically? Is there anything I can say that will comfort a girl who has lost a mother? Are there any words that will ease the burden of a mother who has lost a daughter? How do I offer any good value to a sister and brother who has lost a sister, friends who have lost a friend? I've created irreparable damage in the world of people who love me. Gretchen loved me. And I shall met love through the cold-hearted evil act. I disgraced my family. I'm hated by some beyond words, and I brought shame upon my name. Some would call for my death, and I can't offer any reasonable argument against that sentiment. All I can offer is acknowledgement of my actions and a fair forgiveness for my loss of self-control and for allowing my paranoia, greed, and addiction to drive this heinous act. Men live by their illusions, and my position saw the COVID pandemic as an end-of-the-world policy. An armageddon that I felt compelled to escape no matter the cost. When actions become detached from consequences, that's when madness occurs. My addiction to and abuse of medicinal-grade marijuana combined with untreated mental health issues further fueled a chain reaction that I've laid for one tragic admit to the next. I offer this as mere circumstances leading up to my crime that will never be used as an excuse because there's no excuse ever for what I've done.

Speaker 2:
[89:31] At the sentencing hearing, members of his family who believed David had undiagnosed and untreated bipolar disorder made statements that it could have led to his actions. Kelly Hannah, Gretchen's friend, said, I call BS on that hard hogwash. That's appalling. I think she was also saying this in reference to the whole Armageddon thing. Trying to use that as, I thought the world was ending and I want to take them with me. Well, it's just like complete bullshit.

Speaker 3:
[89:57] Complete bullshit. If it was, that means you're crazy and you need help.

Speaker 2:
[90:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[90:02] Or, and I don't know, I personally don't think, I think it was just that he was jealous and he needed to have that control even after the divorce, which his life falling apart.

Speaker 2:
[90:11] Totally. Because I mean, if there was something there, it's not to say that there's not something mentally going on. I think there certainly is, but to just try to explain it all away with that when there's so much more to this story. I can understand why the family would feel it was a bit distasteful. Right. Since his sentencing, you might be wondering about David's dog, who had nothing to do with any of this. Kobe, he did get adopted. Luckily, Kobe's life did not end there, and he's maybe still out there. Maybe. According to the Assistant District Attorney, Cresche Mixon, Gretchen's daughter is doing well under the full-time care of her father. Cresche said, children are resilient, and she's blessed to have her father in her life, and she appears to be doing very well. When speaking of Gretchen's legacy, Kelly said, if one person was touched by how much she loved people, by how much she loved her child, by how much she just loved living life to the fullest, then her life mattered. Gretchen seemed like such an amazing person, and just got wrapped up with absolute psycho, somebody who made every excuse in the book for his actions and his behavior, and luckily though, he is not scheduled to be released from prison until 2058, at which time he will be 81 years old. So he will be a very, very old, old man, likely not a threat at that point, or he may not even live that long. So again, he's at least in prison till a very elderly age, if he ever makes it out alive, honestly. But just, I mean, horribly tragic. This guy is evil in every way possible. Really, really sad too. I mean, this poor girl doesn't have her mom anymore, and they were super close, and she was so accepting and loved David, and they did so many things together. I mean, he was this positive influence in her life for a while, and for it to end this way, I don't even know how she possibly is coping with this or dealing with this, but I'm glad to hear that she's doing well considering all things. I mean, my God.

Speaker 3:
[92:35] I mean, she used to call him bonus dad. He, for all intents and purposes, was just another parent to her. I mean, even that was part of the interrogation footage. They thought, they knew that his care and love for her was earnest, and they were like, if anything is going to break him, it's going to be this recording of her pleading.

Speaker 2:
[93:00] He literally says it's not Gretchen's daughter. Right. I mean, when I saw that, I was like, there's no hope for this guy. This guy is, I agree with the family. I don't even know. He just seems like one of the most selfish human beings on the planet. I think he really used the pandemic and the climate of the world to his advantage, to try to create an escape for himself, a cover-up for himself, to try to get away with this. I mean, everything was pretty calculated. Planned out, he knew where he was going. He did it the way that he did. He attempted to clean it up. Not good enough, luckily, that they found significant evidence. Then, of course, Gretchen had all the cameras, which she probably never thought that that was going to be used in her own murder case. But as much as he thought he was outsmarting everybody, and he was going to get away with this, he was also the world's dumbest criminal at the same time. Luckily, he was, because had he covered his tracks more, had he escaped the country even, who knows what would have happened.

Speaker 3:
[94:22] If he would have bought a plane ticket instead of do the drive, he could have been gone.

Speaker 2:
[94:27] Yeah, totally. He definitely could have. It's really hard to get any understanding on David's mental state. He's never been formally diagnosed with anything. I don't think they even had him talk to a psychiatrist as far as I could see or any formal diagnosis or evaluation even.

Speaker 3:
[94:50] I'm almost certain, now that he's in jail, they probably do. But I don't know. For me, I can't help but feel that COVID. I think he acted completely of his own volition, but I think just the fact that his life was falling apart, and he didn't know how to act with women, he didn't know how to act with anyone really. Then suddenly, this pandemic happens, and his suspicions of the world ending are true. I think that just allowed for him to be like, all right, my impulses to attack officers and kill Gretchen, now is the time to act.

Speaker 1:
[95:27] I'm really curious, which I think it's way too, I think in order for us to do real studies, it's going to need to be decades from now. But I'm so curious to see what will really learn, like the effects of COVID were.

Speaker 3:
[95:42] Right.

Speaker 1:
[95:42] And I'm sure that there will be tons of studies done on all different things that COVID has affected, but specifically people's mental well-being and crimes. If you can tie COVID to specific data, that shows there was a higher level of criminals and just crimes in general during that time period. I think there's so much that we don't know yet, because we're only a few years out. Yeah, a few years out.

Speaker 2:
[96:13] Yeah, it's not even been that long.

Speaker 1:
[96:14] I was going to say five, but no, it's been six years since it hit. But I mean, we're still having the effects of COVID to this day. And I think decades from now, there's going to be a lot of things in hindsight that are very tied to this massive shift in humanity, really.

Speaker 3:
[96:34] I mean, I would even say like on the, in this kind of this microscopic view we have of being so still in that era, like you're saying, it seems like everyone, not everyone, but many people's just views and personality and everything became more extreme as a result of COVID, as a result of dealing with this insane thing, but then also being inside and having nothing but your phone to access the world. I think that this is just a more severe symptom of it, but I feel like a lot of people just became more extreme in whatever their views may be.

Speaker 1:
[97:12] 100 percent.

Speaker 3:
[97:13] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[97:13] I think it just lined up conveniently with David's narrative though. I think he was already towing the line long before COVID.

Speaker 3:
[97:23] For sure.

Speaker 2:
[97:23] I think he showed he had these predatory abusive tendencies long before. Obviously stemmed from his childhood.

Speaker 3:
[97:33] Right.

Speaker 2:
[97:34] Because if you think about studies done on serial killers and just murderers in general, there's something to point to in their childhood most of the time. And I think there is in this case with David of he's bullied, he's bullied for his size, he fell out of control. And then once he becomes sort of this attractive, you know, sought out gym, you know, trainer, and, you know, he starts getting attention from women and he starts realizing he, you know, has this physical and mental power over people that it goes to his head. And then, but the whole relationship with Kobe is the one thing that I get hung up on. I'm like this, this unhealthy obsession with a celebrity that somebody you've never met, I think, it definitely speaks to where his head was at and how severe that is, I don't think we'll ever know per se. But I think there's absolutely something else going on underneath, you know, within his psyche and his consciousness is just, he's definitely dealing with something. Right. And, you know, I think, you know, there are a lot of signs and symptoms that point to undiagnosed bipolar disorder for sure. But I think it's really, you know, it's one of those cases where it's sort of a perfect storm of things. There's all these things that sort of come together in the time. I mean, Gretchen was leaving him. This was sort of the first stable relationship he had, the semblance of a family he ever had, and to have that sort of taken away from him. And he doesn't know how to reckon with any of it in a healthy way, that it all just spirals out of control. And then he thinks, you know, he's going to be able to create a plan to escape it. And his plan is horrible. And, you know, he's caught, you know, almost immediately. Right. And he's just, you know, in his sentencing hearing, he's like, you know, he blames this fear of the end of the world. But then he also recognizes that what he did was wrong. And, you know, he took someone away from their family. So it's just all over the place. It's like he understands, but then he blames something else. And it's just, he's a messed up human being. I mean, he's just got, you know, he doesn't know what, I don't think he knows really where he is and reality at this point. And I think I read that he's also now, like once he's gone to prison, he's found the Lord.

Speaker 3:
[100:03] Oh, I'm not surprised.

Speaker 2:
[100:05] And now he's like, you know, he's atoned for his sins and he's never gonna get forgiveness from Gretchen's family, but he's found his own. So it's like, it's one of those situations where I think he's just a messed up individual. And unfortunately, he never got the help he really needed to get to the root of the issues before it was too late. But fortunately, he will be in prison. Where he belongs for hopefully the rest of his life. But man, a truly tragic case at the end of the day. And I hope that Gretchen's daughter is doing well. And I hope that Jeff's doing well. And the rest of Gretchen's family are, are coping with this the best they possibly can. I mean, I don't know how you, how you even put the pieces together after something like this. But let us know your thoughts on this case. Let us know your thoughts on David. You know, I feel like people, you know, there's lots of, there's lots and lots of people, unfortunately, like David out there. But yeah, we'll see you guys next week with another one. Thank you for joining us. I'm happy to be back. We've got more coming your way. Until then, keep on taking your mind, Mile Higher.