transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:01] For some people, Adventure Motorcycle riding is all about getting farther off the beaten track to places that you otherwise wouldn't see, but at the same time, testing their skills in rougher, more technical terrain. And for some of those riders, that gets them to thinking about getting lighter bikes and lighter gear. That's just what happened to Luuk and Emma Davits, two riders from the Netherlands who've gone deep into reducing weight and trimming bulk, pushing it to the point where it starts to affect their comfort and then sort of figuring out where to draw that line. In fact, they've got their camping gear, tools and luggage paired down to nine kilograms. That's just under 20 pounds per person. And in this conversation today, they're going to talk about what that gives them, what it costs them and how pushing it that far starts to change the way you think about what you pack. I'm Jim Martin. This is Adventure Rider Radio. Stay with us. We've got a good one for you.

Speaker 2:
[01:04] Robert Schwartz, Ronald Lee Schumacher, Jimmy Lewis, Wyndham Busket, Tiffany Coates, Chris Birch, Simon Thomas, Lisa Chavez, Graham Jarvis, Quentin Smelt, and you're listening to Adventure Rider Radio.

Speaker 1:
[01:18] Experience riders choose the Cycle Pump Tire Inflator made by Bestrest Products for one reason, because they can count on it when they pull that out of their pannier no matter what. They're so tough, they're warrantied for life. Bestrest has loads of other motor specific products like the Hex Wrench, which is a combination tire iron slash wrench. And they're known for their top quality tire plugs and patch kits. More at cyclepump.com. And Green Chili Adventure Gear offers American made, heavy-duty luggage systems for all types of motorcycles. You can turn any dry bag into luggage using their strapping system. And of course, Green Chili Adventure Gear is tested in extreme weather and terrain to withstand the abuse that adventure riding gives it tough, with reliable gear. greenchiliadv.com.

Speaker 3:
[02:10] I'm Emma, I'm from the Netherlands, and yeah, in the day job, I'm a nurse.

Speaker 4:
[02:16] I'm Luuk, I'm also from the Netherlands, and my day job is project management. I came from a software background, so I do that now for government.

Speaker 1:
[02:33] Emma and Luuk, welcome to Adventure Rider Radio.

Speaker 3:
[02:36] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[02:37] How did you get into riding, Emma?

Speaker 3:
[02:40] Well, at first I got motivated by Luuk because he bought a bike. And yeah, we were looking at what we wanted to do, and we planned a big trip to Sweden, just when he got his driver's license. And we went camping there, so I was on the back. And that's how I got into riding a motorcycle, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:01] And by riding on the back, you decided that you wanted to ride your own bike?

Speaker 3:
[03:05] Yeah, exactly. Riding at the back was really fun, but especially because we started to ride a bit of off-road, it was more fun to get my own license. And yeah.

Speaker 1:
[03:19] What was the idea of the bike to begin with?

Speaker 4:
[03:21] I think that was more my thing. From when I was young, I always wanted to ride motorcycles. Not necessarily adventure or off-road or something, but my father always rode bikes and I was really interested. And actually pretty late, I got the opportunity or I had the time to get my license. So somewhere in 2020, I think, when I got my license, we had actually the trip we first planned was with a camper. Or a camper van with some friends, but that fell through because of COVID. So we decided to go on the bike.

Speaker 3:
[04:05] Yep.

Speaker 1:
[04:06] And what kind of bike was it?

Speaker 4:
[04:08] There was a Transalp 700.

Speaker 1:
[04:10] Oh, I see. So you started out with an adventure bike.

Speaker 4:
[04:13] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[04:14] Right, okay. You've progressed to what bikes now?

Speaker 4:
[04:18] We both ride Crf300L.

Speaker 3:
[04:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[04:22] That's a nice bike, small. And of course that's what you guys are all about with these bikes. Well, first of all, why don't you go to the small bikes? Why not get two larger bikes?

Speaker 4:
[04:33] We did it first.

Speaker 3:
[04:34] Yes. So first I bought a DR650, and it was an amazing bike. But it was a lot of work, not in only riding, but it was an old bike, so we had to repair it quite a bit. So after a while, I started looking at a reliable bike next to my DR650 and a bit lighter bike. And that's why I decided to buy a Crf300. And yeah, Luuk also...

Speaker 4:
[05:03] Yeah, it was also partially because we started riding more technical stuff, or we wanted to ride more technical stuff. We started riding in Sweden together on the DR650 and the TransAlp. But yeah, the riding was so fun that we thought, if we get lighter bikes, we can get through more rough terrain easier.

Speaker 3:
[05:30] Yeah, we went to Romania also to get some training. And there we rode on 250...

Speaker 4:
[05:39] Two strokes.

Speaker 3:
[05:40] Two strokes, yes. And yeah, it was so much fun.

Speaker 4:
[05:44] Yeah, it was...

Speaker 1:
[05:45] You mean so much fun because there were lighter bikes? Like, what did you find that you weren't getting from the heavier bikes when you're going off road? Or you were getting that you didn't like?

Speaker 3:
[05:57] First of all, when you're a new rider, then if you drop your bike, yeah, then you need to pick it up and the lighter bikes are a bit easier. But also, it's... Yeah, you're more flexible. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[06:14] It kind of felt like cheating. Riding the lighter two-stroke bikes in comparison to the heavier bikes. They were enduro bikes, so they were really set up for it. And we rode with a guide in Romania, and it was pretty rough terrain, but it felt a lot easier on those bikes than on our heavier bikes. So that really set that up.

Speaker 1:
[06:40] Did you feel like maybe that your skill just wasn't up to the bikes that you were riding, or did you think that that light bike actually gave you something that you couldn't get with the heavier one?

Speaker 3:
[06:50] I think for me it was the skill level as well, yeah. Yeah, the lighter bike is easier to control. And even though the enduro bikes were really with a big engine, so yeah, you can wheelie it quite easy, but it was easier to handle. I don't know why, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[07:10] Yeah, and also what I've noticed is that I think it was skill for me as well, by the way, but on a bigger bike, you don't notice what you're doing wrong as much as on a lighter bike. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[07:26] Right, so you're getting more feedback from the lighter bike.

Speaker 4:
[07:28] Yeah, that was something I really needed to get used to as well with the 300L, when we rode it through, for instance, soft sand or anything, you feel it shaking or a head shake much more than on a heavier bike. But you get a lot more leniency in terms of correcting it.

Speaker 1:
[07:48] Yeah, it's a lot more forgiving, isn't it? The lighter bike, and it's easier to pull back in as well.

Speaker 4:
[07:54] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:55] When things start to get bent out of shape with it.

Speaker 4:
[07:57] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[07:58] So, did you guys find yourself riding rougher stuff now with the smaller bikes?

Speaker 3:
[08:03] Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[08:04] Yeah. Pushing a little bit further, for sure. But you know, and I've often said this with a larger bike, that's one of the things I love about riding a bigger bike is that you're sort of riding it in a place that it doesn't belong and you have to, you know, work your skills more to try and get it through, et cetera. But if you ride a day on like, you know, a large adventure bike in some really technical terrain and ride another day on a light bike, for most of us, you're going to be working a lot less with a lighter bike.

Speaker 4:
[08:34] Yeah, you're totally right. And also it's kind of the large bike. I know what you mean. It's also kind of a challenge to ride it in a terrain where it doesn't really belong. Yeah. I still remember we were in Sweden the first year and Emma was on the back. We were on the Bridgestone A41 tires, I think, the adventure tire, the really slippery one. Yeah, we were riding stuff that I would now not even think of doing on those tires and that bike. But afterwards it felt really, really cool. Like, yeah, we did manage to do that.

Speaker 1:
[09:13] Well, do you find, has your skills improved by riding the smaller bikes and getting more used to it? Because your skills will improve just the more you ride, obviously bigger or small bike. But do you find that you can go back or you could ostensibly go back to a larger bike now and ride it better?

Speaker 4:
[09:30] Yeah, yeah, I think we would be way more aware of the technique while riding now.

Speaker 3:
[09:40] Also, when you ride on the roads now, I notice that I'm getting better by riding so much off-roads.

Speaker 1:
[09:48] Yeah, there's a huge, I mean, you hear Clinton's about on Rider Skills talk about that. I mean, it gets used to things that you wouldn't otherwise experience just on the road. But, so, moving from the large bike to a smaller bike, did you have some sort of problem with your luggage and what you're carrying, switching from the bigger bike to the smaller bike?

Speaker 4:
[10:08] I don't think we necessarily, we already were moving to lighter luggage. It's part of a continuous getting lighter. But we already on the big bike we didn't carry that much even to up we...

Speaker 3:
[10:31] No, we had like two panniers at that time on both sides, like those big panniers, but no roll on the back. And then that was for two of us. And with the camping gear, everything with us. But they were huge panniers. They were like 40 liters. Yeah, 45, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:50] So why did you decide to start focusing on reducing weight and bulk?

Speaker 4:
[10:55] Mostly, I think for riding purposes, so make it easier to ride. Like we said, we're not pro riders or anything, but we do like the challenge of riding and being able to ride freely and on hard terrain. So the lighter the bike is, the easier it is to ride in my experience. And also it's kind of a challenge to us to continuously keep getting our gear lighter.

Speaker 1:
[11:30] It's like paring it down so you can watch the scale drop sort of thing when you're riding and stuff. Do you guys also like, do you go on diets and stuff like that to reduce your weight so you can have less weight overall?

Speaker 3:
[11:47] That was not that crazy, but when we buy gear, when we get new gear, we always check if we can get something lighter and get smaller gear.

Speaker 1:
[11:58] Right. So what becomes easier for you? You're saying riding, just picking up the bike?

Speaker 3:
[12:05] It's more than that. I think it's also handling the terrain. Like Luuk said, when you have a heavier bike, you don't feel the bike that much moving around you, and it's just lighter than you feel every impact better.

Speaker 4:
[12:17] And also in our last trip we rode in the Balkans, a lot of rocks and really rocky terrain. And I can imagine that with a heavier bike, you get a lot less control in those situations. The light bikes move a lot easier through all the bigger rocky sections.

Speaker 1:
[12:40] So you're doing trails and things like that that you wouldn't otherwise do on a larger motorcycle.

Speaker 3:
[12:44] No, no, no, no.

Speaker 4:
[12:45] Right.

Speaker 1:
[12:46] So what about when you get to camp though? Because the gear that we carry, of course, you're camping, right? This is the way you travel.

Speaker 4:
[12:52] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:53] Right. So you're camping, you get your camping gear with you, you've got your tools, whatever else you're going to carry with you. But what about when you pull into camp? How does it feel then when you arrive in camp though and open up your panniers and find that you only have a toothbrush and a face towel?

Speaker 3:
[13:07] Like that? You mean like the comfort level?

Speaker 1:
[13:10] Yeah. So like how does it, like are you suffering at that point?

Speaker 3:
[13:16] No, no, no. I must say, like when we went to Sweden and Norway, we had like camping chair with us, the lightweight ones, but still, right now we sit on thin mats. So sometimes it is a bit survival-y.

Speaker 4:
[13:36] Yeah, but if you just look at the lightweight aspect, it doesn't bother us that much. Like you said, we didn't take the Heliknox chairs this year. We thought we would really miss it, because after a day of pretty heavy riding, it's nice to sit down comfortably. But not having it didn't really bother me as much as I would have thought. We just sit against the tire and use the seating pad on the floor, and it's fine. And it's not that much of a difference in comfort level.

Speaker 3:
[14:17] Now you get used to it. It all depends on your level of comfort, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[14:22] The luxuries are nice, of course. I mean, you know, it's great to have a fully set up camp. But I know not everybody's like that. I mean, some people will say that the one piece of gear they want to take is their chair, for instance. People are really big on their chairs.

Speaker 3:
[14:33] Yeah. And I think that depends on your level of comfort, because some things, like last year, I wanted to go without my pillow. And Luuk or we usually sometimes take things with us and don't use it and test if I will miss it. So, for example, I took my pillow with me, but I was planning not to use it. But yeah, I tried without it, but I noticed it didn't work. So I was so glad I brought it along. So yeah, you need to test your limits because it still needs to be fun, right?

Speaker 1:
[15:06] How do you guys think about this whole reducing weight thing? I mean, do you have a philosophy that you apply to things or is it a piece by piece process?

Speaker 4:
[15:17] It's still a piece by piece process. We always say you shouldn't be... Or you don't have to upgrade everything from the start, but as you go along, we try to question everything we have with us. So that's the most important thing. And also right after a trip, we check like did we use... Is there anything we didn't use that we can throw out of our kit? And the things we do use, could we make it lighter, could we take less, for instance? So that's something we do a lot. We also think about every gram counts. That's a really important one as well. Because one thing you hear a lot of people say is, for instance, people make fun of cutting your toothbrush in half. We've heard that one before. And I understand, because how much does it really save? We kind of laughingly did it this year, just to try. But on the other hand, if you sum all of the things you cut off, or out of your gear, sum all of that up, it does add up to a lot of volume and weight in total.

Speaker 3:
[16:44] Yeah, and together it's much more than... Only just toothpaste, a toothbrush thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[16:51] I can see that if there's a lot of pieces, but we'll get to that. Let me first ask, what have you found that you can't do without? Like you're talking about things that you don't use, and you consider chucking them and not taking them out the next time. What have you found that you actually could not produce weight or bulk on?

Speaker 3:
[17:10] Good sleeping bag.

Speaker 1:
[17:11] Yeah. That's it?

Speaker 3:
[17:15] No, a lot more, yeah. We really like to cook when we go out camping, so that's something that we always bring along. Yeah, quite a big cooking setup.

Speaker 4:
[17:28] Yeah, but that is still pretty light. We use a pretty lightweight tent, pretty lightweight sleeping setup, also pretty lightweight cooking setup. But we use the Tokes Titanium cooking pot, which is already pretty light. But is there something we really...

Speaker 3:
[17:47] The tools as well, because...

Speaker 4:
[17:48] Yeah, tools are quite hard.

Speaker 3:
[17:50] Yeah, because we bring a lot along for when we get something broken or something.

Speaker 1:
[18:00] So tools you haven't been able to reduce? Have you actually looked at that and figure, okay, I've got a wrench here, how can I make it smaller? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[18:07] Luuk is like a welder. He solved like the... How do you call those keys, the Engelsersleutels? The Allen keys?

Speaker 4:
[18:17] No, just the regular wrench, just the wrench.

Speaker 3:
[18:22] Yes. So he solved those two true and then welded them together in the right sizes.

Speaker 1:
[18:30] So you've got like two sizes, one on one end, one on the other. I mean, they sell them like that. You can get some, you know, for instance.

Speaker 4:
[18:34] Yeah, but they were weird sizes that we couldn't get in light.

Speaker 3:
[18:39] For our bikes, especially.

Speaker 4:
[18:40] Oh, right.

Speaker 1:
[18:40] I see. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[18:41] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[18:42] And we also took like the, the tire or the axle nut socket. Socket, not the socket, but the wrench.

Speaker 1:
[18:52] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[18:54] We have sawn it off right at the head with a small stick piece sticking out. And then took an aluminum tube to lengthen it for leverage, to get the stuff off. And I smashed it a bit. So it's flat.

Speaker 1:
[19:12] Does that work? Have you tried it?

Speaker 3:
[19:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[19:14] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[19:15] We had to try it.

Speaker 1:
[19:17] Oh, really?

Speaker 4:
[19:18] We had three flat tires this trip.

Speaker 1:
[19:21] And it works no problem at all?

Speaker 3:
[19:23] No problem.

Speaker 1:
[19:24] That's interesting. Wow.

Speaker 4:
[19:25] Yeah. It's pretty light.

Speaker 1:
[19:27] We just had somebody on from his Obsidian Tool, and that's kind of what they have in their toolkit. It's a really nice toolkit. But the thing that really caught me was the axle, because like on some bikes, like they're huge, right? So you've got this massive wrench or a big socket or something, but they've made a piece, basically just like that. Like you took the end off of a box end wrench and you cut it off only there's this flat and very low profile. And then you put a handle on it, right? And you use the same handle for other things. It's great. So what are the things do you use your aluminum tube for?

Speaker 4:
[20:00] Mostly to get leverage. It doesn't have an, really have an extra use at this point, except keeping some of the wrenches together when we store them. So you don't lose the individual wrenches. But yeah, I saw the Obsidian tools. I already sent them to Emma after your podcast. Like, you should get this.

Speaker 1:
[20:29] They're really nice. And it's a nice little kit that it comes in as well. So you can, you know, put other stuff in there. So I mean, I really liked it. I was pretty stoked about it. Well, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about how Luuk and Emma deal with holding their motorcycle up while they work on it. We're going to dig into their toolkit. This is a whole bunch more coming up. Stay with us. If your bike didn't come with a factory cruise control, the Atlas Throttle Lock will literally change your ride. I know that for me, for my personal experience with it, I was blown away when I put this thing on and realized just how much tension I hold in my hand and my wrist and my arm from holding the throttle on any long stretch. I mean, it doesn't even take much of a long stretch before you start to realize it. The Atlas Throttle Lock allows you to relax that grip. It releases the tension in your arm and tension is fatigue and that's something we don't want on a motorcycle. Now, the Atlas Throttle Lock, it was invented and is sold by riders just like us. Matter of fact, they were on a round the world trip when they came up with the idea for it. It is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship. I always refer to it as like a Swiss watch because it's beautiful. It is like when you look at mechanically, design-wise, it's beautiful. It installs in a few minutes. You can swap it out from one bike to another so you don't have to buy one for each bike. The Atlas Throttle Lock is a game changer for your ride. atlasmoto.com is the website. Anytime you're dealing with them, throwing them here on Adventure Rider Radio, atlasmoto.com. So you're cutting wrenches, you're welding wrenches together, which is great if you're a welder, but if you're not, you're going to be stuck with that one. Cutting it off and using a tube though, just about anybody can make that, which I think is a great idea. What do you do for holding the bike up? Like when you have to take a tire off or something, are you always flopping it on its side?

Speaker 4:
[22:23] No, no, we have a trail stand for that.

Speaker 1:
[22:26] And what is that?

Speaker 4:
[22:28] We use the, yeah, it's an eastbound trail stand, so it's a...

Speaker 1:
[22:33] Oh, it's a manufactured one.

Speaker 3:
[22:35] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[22:35] Yeah. We also have made one ourselves, but the eastbound one is really nice. It's basically three, two or three aluminum tubes that are telescoping. And you can put a locking pin to get it to a certain height, so it won't go further in. And then you can put a piece of Velcro around your front brake. And if you push your bike to one side, to the left side, then if you have it on the stand, you can lift up your rear wheel and put the trail stand. So it's basically, like I said, an aluminum stick with a rubber. And on the underside and on the top end, it has a bit of a hold, so you can put that under your swing arm. And it keeps your bike upright if you want to change your tire or your inner tube.

Speaker 1:
[23:34] It makes it kind of like your center stand, really, except it's more versatile than that because you can move it around to different points on the bike.

Speaker 3:
[23:41] Yes. And use it on other bikes as well, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[23:45] And it's a bit hard to get the front wheel up sometimes. You need to position it just right so it's at the skid plate or something, or the frame, so you can keep it up and off.

Speaker 1:
[24:00] Why not just crush the tube on that and use that as your handle for your wrench? I'm just thinking of reducing weight here. I mean, then you could bring a whole toothbrush.

Speaker 3:
[24:12] Nice. Thank you, Greg.

Speaker 1:
[24:15] As a matter of fact, why don't you use that for your toothbrush as well? You slide your toothbrush in there.

Speaker 4:
[24:22] Yeah, we've made jokes about using the toothbrush as a chain cleaning brush as well.

Speaker 1:
[24:28] That's right. So, what other things with your tools have you found to reduce weight in bulk?

Speaker 4:
[24:37] Well, one thing we... That's why we chose two Crf300Ls is if you share the same bikes, you can keep the same tools. And of course, we're a couple, so we ride together a lot. But if you ride with people with the same bikes, it helps. And also, stuff like taking a small can of chain cleaner.

Speaker 3:
[25:01] Gasoline to clean your chain?

Speaker 4:
[25:04] Yeah, so not taking chain cleaner in a can, but using diesel from a gas station.

Speaker 1:
[25:14] So, you mean you just do it to the gas station sort of thing? Like you get it on demand to clean your chain?

Speaker 4:
[25:18] Yeah, so once in a few times when we're getting gas, we just stop and clean our chains with some diesel.

Speaker 1:
[25:29] What do you think you've got your tools down to as far as that? Well, first of all, just kind of give a sort of a quick walkthrough what you have, what your toolkit looks like.

Speaker 4:
[25:39] We have the Motion Pro tire, tire levers and bead breakers. So that's two in one, actually.

Speaker 3:
[25:48] JB Weld.

Speaker 4:
[25:49] Yeah, we always have JB Weld with us. We have some basic more like screwdriver and Allen keys, which are pretty small. We have a pretty small T handle, which has the socket end. So a collapsible T handle from, I believe it was from...

Speaker 3:
[26:14] Motion Pro.

Speaker 4:
[26:15] No, 24MX. It was pretty cheap. And we only take the sockets we need for our bike. And we have a few regular wrenches, tire pump.

Speaker 3:
[26:32] Yeah, I think it's quite a small toolkit, but it has everything we need. Like also cable for the clutch when we... When it breaks. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of things are in its tire wraps.

Speaker 4:
[26:47] Pull rope.

Speaker 3:
[26:49] Pull rope, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:50] Like a tow rope?

Speaker 3:
[26:51] Yeah. We've gotten some situations, especially in the Netherlands, sometimes we ride with different bikes, like the older bikes. And then, yeah, I think like at least once a month, we have to drag a bike.

Speaker 1:
[27:06] Is that because you're stuck or is that because the bike quit?

Speaker 3:
[27:09] The bike quit.

Speaker 1:
[27:10] Oh, is that unreliable?

Speaker 3:
[27:13] No. We still need to fix it a bit, because one of our bikes, the KLX, at the end, when we clean the bike, it doesn't want to start up when it gets cold.

Speaker 4:
[27:24] Yeah, so after we've ridden it, it just shuts off and doesn't want to start up again.

Speaker 3:
[27:29] We'll have to start it.

Speaker 1:
[27:31] So the tool kit, when you guys have a breakdown, I know you're doing all kinds of rides, you're not pushing your luck, but you're riding in the areas where you have to be more reliable, self-reliant. Are you able to fix everything? Do you find yourself sitting on the side of the trail, waiting for somebody to come along so you can borrow other tools or do you have everything you need every time?

Speaker 4:
[27:51] We've had, up until now, we've had everything we need.

Speaker 1:
[27:54] Within reason, I mean.

Speaker 4:
[27:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[27:56] Yeah, I think our toolkit is the biggest part of our gear. So the rest of our gear is a bit more lightweight, but the tools we don't really try to cut too much because we'd rather be self-efficient.

Speaker 1:
[28:09] Right, and the tools work for both bikes. You're only carrying one toolkit, I'm assuming.

Speaker 3:
[28:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:15] How much does it weigh, do you know?

Speaker 3:
[28:18] To be honest, we weight everything in total, like all our gear, but not the toolkits alone. Separately, no.

Speaker 1:
[28:25] Right, okay.

Speaker 3:
[28:26] But it's heavy, it's not our lightest kit.

Speaker 1:
[28:28] Do you split it up between the two bikes?

Speaker 4:
[28:30] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:31] Oh, you divide it up. Okay.

Speaker 4:
[28:33] Well, the pump is on your bike.

Speaker 3:
[28:36] Oh yeah, I've got the pump on my bike, but that's it.

Speaker 1:
[28:40] Right. That works fine if you're with somebody you know you're going to stick with. But one of the issues that I have with riding with other people that you might just meet up with or plan to go out with, is if anybody decides to go and it happens, right? If somebody changes their mind the last minute gets too difficult or not difficult enough or whatever the case is. And next thing you know, you find that you realize when they've left that, oh no, you know, I don't have a camp stove or I don't have an air pump.

Speaker 4:
[29:01] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[29:02] Yeah, that's really important. So it's okay to share gear, but you need to be self-reliant. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[29:07] Yeah. You need to be able to, to figure that if they did go to the heaven of things, I really, really need.

Speaker 3:
[29:13] Yeah. Yeah. If Luuk goes, then I don't have the tent and the sleeping bag, so I better stick with him.

Speaker 1:
[29:22] Right.

Speaker 3:
[29:23] Wow.

Speaker 4:
[29:23] But one thing I didn't mention is my favorite piece of tooling in our toolkit is the Leatherman Crunch.

Speaker 3:
[29:31] Oh yeah.

Speaker 4:
[29:31] Do you know the tool?

Speaker 1:
[29:33] Well, I know the Leatherman. I don't know if I know the Crunch version. What is that?

Speaker 4:
[29:37] Yeah, the Crunch is, it's, sadly, it's discontinued, but it's just like a normal Leatherman. You can fold it up or and fold it out and it has some useful tools, but also the pliers are vice grips, so they are locking. And that's really useful because you can use it as regular pliers, but also to hold something, for instance, a bolt on the back where you can't reach it with one hand, so you can keep that clamped down, or you can use it as an emergency clutch lever or anything, you can clamp it on really tightly. But one thing we have used it for is, and I saw Obsidian Tools had said as well, was the small reciprocating saws.

Speaker 1:
[30:24] Oh, right.

Speaker 4:
[30:25] It has a pin vice, so it's just a small slit through the middle of the jaw, so you can really tightly lock those really small reciprocating saw, so you can really lock those really small reciprocating saws. So we had to do some repairs on metal, so we took some metal and wood blades with us, and the metal one came in handy sometimes.

Speaker 1:
[30:47] You said blades. You're carrying more than one metal blade, and more than one wood blade. One metal and one wood blade. So that's so you can cut firewood, and then, like you said, do some sort of repairs or something.

Speaker 4:
[30:57] Yeah, but they're really small. Yeah, yeah, just a blade, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:02] And what, like a six inch sort of thing, or size of your hand?

Speaker 4:
[31:06] No, no, not even. Yeah, shorter. Yeah, shorter. They're like the...

Speaker 3:
[31:10] Ten centimeters, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[31:11] Yeah, ten centimeters. What's that? Four inches.

Speaker 1:
[31:14] Right. Wow. So you're really, really working at trying to... If you had false teeth, would you leave those at home?

Speaker 2:
[31:22] Probably.

Speaker 4:
[31:24] It would be weird on the coms, but...

Speaker 1:
[31:28] Because that could certainly save some weight. So I'm curious what you carry, what else you carry. Not necessarily like a gear list, but you're carrying what? Camping gear, clothing, just sort of talk about what's in your pack. It shouldn't take long, I'm assuming.

Speaker 3:
[31:44] No.

Speaker 4:
[31:45] No. So we have, well, the big three camping tents, about one and a half kilos, a big Agnes copper spur. We have sleeping mats. We have a quilt, so we have a two person sleeping bag, because we sleep together, so that saves weight as well. We have a cooking setup, which consists of two plates and a pan, gasoline stove.

Speaker 3:
[32:14] Yeah. And those pans or those plates can also serve as pans. So yeah, frying pan.

Speaker 4:
[32:21] In terms of...

Speaker 3:
[32:22] Like for clothing, we both have like two t-shirts, but that's also your sleeping t-shirts, and yeah, two pairs of socks and etc. So yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:32] Basically two sets. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[32:34] It's not quite a lot. Yeah. For shoes, we wear those Seedy Crossfire boots. And for at camp, they aren't really comfortable, but we have like really tiny camp shoes, and they're so thin that you can feel every piece of the ground when you walk over it.

Speaker 4:
[32:56] It's just enough.

Speaker 3:
[32:58] But it's really lightweight, so get what you want to give up. And since last year, I have a hair comb, a hairbrush with me.

Speaker 1:
[33:09] What do you mean since last year?

Speaker 3:
[33:11] Yeah, well, I usually use my hands to when camping to comb my hair. I've got quite long hair. And yeah, when riding last year, I noticed that I was almost getting dredge in my hair.

Speaker 4:
[33:28] It was really dry and warm in the Balkans that year.

Speaker 3:
[33:32] Yeah, so on the road, yeah, you can often buy things on the road. So this year I bought, yeah, I was on child's hairbrush, like shining.

Speaker 4:
[33:46] Really shiny.

Speaker 3:
[33:48] So the guys made fun of me like trail princess, which I'm not.

Speaker 1:
[33:52] But that hairbrush must weigh a ton.

Speaker 2:
[33:55] Yes, I know.

Speaker 3:
[33:58] So I upgraded right away when I got home.

Speaker 1:
[34:01] Because you said you're watching every gram. I forget how you said it, but you said every gram makes a difference. So if you're watching that, you probably do. Like when you bought that hairbrush, you're thinking it's extra weight.

Speaker 3:
[34:13] Yes. Yeah, it is. But yeah, sometimes it's about comfort. You need to be comfortable, because otherwise the trip isn't fun.

Speaker 1:
[34:24] Well, yeah, you got to be clean. I mean, you can not take soap and say that it's too much weight, but I mean, yeah, you got to be clean. But you were going through your gear there. So as far as clothing, you've got, you said two t-shirts. I'm assuming that's two extra t-shirts, correct?

Speaker 3:
[34:37] No, no, no. It's the t-shirt you wear and the t-shirt you fold.

Speaker 1:
[34:40] One for camp.

Speaker 3:
[34:42] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[34:42] So in the, like if you get wet and you don't dry that t-shirt out, you're going to wear your dry one to bed and you're going to get up in the morning, put your wet one on to go ride again.

Speaker 3:
[34:51] Yes.

Speaker 4:
[34:51] Yeah. It sucks. Okay.

Speaker 3:
[34:55] Especially with the socks. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:57] And what about like dealing with the weather in camp, like, you know, for rain and warmth, like for a sweater and things like that.

Speaker 3:
[35:04] Yeah. So it's important to stay warm, of course, because if you get cold, then it sucks. So sometimes because we camp quite a bit, sometimes if when we get too much rain, then we go to a shelter or a hotel. Like, a few years ago, we went camping up a mountain really high, and we got into a storm and every piece of gear got wet. So we went to a hotel the next day and dried everything up. So sometimes you need to seek out comfort to get warm again.

Speaker 4:
[35:41] Yeah, but apart from that, we're pretty able to withstand some rain or nasty weather. We have our riding gear, and we also have rain gear with us.

Speaker 3:
[35:52] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[35:52] So like a rain coat that you would wear in camp?

Speaker 4:
[35:55] Yes. Yeah, but also while riding in the rain. So we have basically our setup with riding gear is also layered. So we have just regular motocross pants and a jersey. And on top of that, we have protection. So we ride with a protection vest and on top of that, a jersey and if it's needed, rain gear.

Speaker 3:
[36:24] Yeah. And when it gets cold, even a vest underneath it.

Speaker 4:
[36:28] Yeah. So a down jacket.

Speaker 1:
[36:31] When you said you got wet there, obviously you spent the night in the mountains and then went to the hotel the next day. Were you cold that night? Was that a freezing cold night?

Speaker 4:
[36:39] Yeah. That was in Norway really high up. So it was really cold. And the thing was not really, not just ourselves getting wet, also the tent couldn't stand on the planes. So it got blown down every time. So we couldn't safely stay there. So what did you do? Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[37:02] And it was still light around one o'clock in the night. So we packed up our tents and went searching for a hotel at that time.

Speaker 1:
[37:11] Oh, I see. Okay. So this is where the being too tight on gear, it failed you at that point.

Speaker 3:
[37:18] Yeah. But it was just stupid to stand on an open plane and we didn't check the weather that good. So that's also a thing. Yeah. And usually when we go somewhere, we always check the weather because you need to be prepared for what you get up to. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:33] Right. For the most part though, what you have works for you every time and you're still looking to pair it down.

Speaker 3:
[37:40] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[37:41] Because you guys said you have like you weighed all of your gear and it's nine kilograms, which is just shy of 20 pounds, I think. What is included in that?

Speaker 4:
[37:54] That's per person.

Speaker 1:
[37:56] When you're weighing that nine kilograms, what are you throwing in there? You throw it in your riding gear, you're throwing in your tools, you're throwing in your camping gear, what's included?

Speaker 3:
[38:03] Yeah, so the riding gear isn't, so because we wear the riding gear. But everything else is included, even the bags.

Speaker 4:
[38:10] Yeah, and the camera gear is not included. That's the only thing we didn't include, because, well, we, like we said, we have a YouTube channel.

Speaker 1:
[38:19] So while you're cutting off half your toothbrush, you're on, now you're taking cameras and batteries, I'm assuming.

Speaker 3:
[38:25] That's heavy.

Speaker 1:
[38:26] And so how much weight do you carry in video gear?

Speaker 3:
[38:31] Oh, so much.

Speaker 4:
[38:32] Yeah, that's too much.

Speaker 1:
[38:34] Do you not gram that? Like, do you not look at that?

Speaker 4:
[38:36] Yeah, yeah, we did.

Speaker 1:
[38:37] So you cut your cords off and make them shorter to save weight?

Speaker 4:
[38:40] Oh, we should, more probably, but yeah, we don't really cut a lot on the video gear, because we really want it to be good quality. And it's one of the things we really like to do is make good videos of our travels. But yeah, we take, so we have nine kilograms of luggage per person. So that's actually our camping gear, tools, et cetera. But on top of that per person, I think we have about five kilograms of video gear, which is way too much. But it's a sacrifice we're willing to take.

Speaker 1:
[39:25] What about the bikes themselves? Did you do anything to try and make the bikes lighter?

Speaker 3:
[39:31] So I want to get my exhaust lighter.

Speaker 1:
[39:37] Louder?

Speaker 3:
[39:38] No, no, not louder. Lighter. So the exhaust is like five kilograms, the stock one. And I want to go for a lighter version, but for my edition, the 2025 edition, it's not out for you, a regulated version. So I'm still waiting and hoping that they get one.

Speaker 1:
[40:00] Are you not riding both, riding the same bikes?

Speaker 4:
[40:03] One year apart. And the Euro 5 plus emissions went on the newer one.

Speaker 1:
[40:10] Oh, I see. I see.

Speaker 4:
[40:11] Right. And mine has the lighter pipe on it. And in terms of weight savings, we don't have specific mods for weight savings, actually more on riding comfort, but not weight savings, specifically on the bike.

Speaker 1:
[40:26] I'm still thinking about your toothbrush and the half handle that you cut off, because I'm thinking if you ran just a little bit less oil in the engine, like within the limit, that would be your handle.

Speaker 4:
[40:38] We might try that.

Speaker 3:
[40:39] A bit of spice here, that's nice.

Speaker 1:
[40:43] You can always do that.

Speaker 4:
[40:43] You siphon a bit out every time.

Speaker 1:
[40:46] Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4:
[40:48] But it gets even worse. We also share a towel which we cut in half. We cut a towel in half.

Speaker 3:
[40:59] They both have one side.

Speaker 4:
[41:01] Of a lightweight camping towel.

Speaker 1:
[41:03] So you just take turns washing. Whoever goes first gets the driest towel.

Speaker 4:
[41:07] No, no, no. We have two pieces of one towel.

Speaker 1:
[41:11] Oh, I see.

Speaker 3:
[41:11] I see.

Speaker 1:
[41:12] Okay. So you do have your own. It's just half of one.

Speaker 3:
[41:15] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[41:18] We're going to take a quick break. I'm going to tell you about a couple of things. But when we come back, we're going to get into if this ever feels ridiculous, you know, obsessing over weight like this. Stay with us. We got a lot more coming up. Stock foot pegs give you a place to put your feet. That's what the motorcycle manufacturers put them on there for, and that's it. IMS Products foot pegs gives you a tool to control your motorcycle. That bigger platform with a better design gives you more leverage and better comfort and a more solid connection to the bike while you're standing. If you ride off road, it's a mod that makes sense right away. imsproducts.com. Anytime you're dealing with them, throw in there that you heard them here on Adventure Rider Radio. imsproducts.com. So does it ever feel ridiculous? Do you ever feel like you're going too far?

Speaker 3:
[42:14] Yeah, well, your friends make fun of you, but yeah.

Speaker 4:
[42:21] No, but not really. We also don't really like the gatekeeping stuff. Everybody needs to travel the way they want. If you want to ride a heavy bike, that's fine. And that's really cool as well. But for us, it's just kind of a challenge to do so and to get lighter every time. And it kind of feels like at first you're like, am I really going to cut the toothbrush in half? But now we're to the point like, maybe we could do with a t-shirt less.

Speaker 1:
[43:02] So would the t-shirt less be weight or bulk that you're trying to remove?

Speaker 4:
[43:06] That's a good point.

Speaker 3:
[43:07] Yeah. Often people say like go lighter, but yeah, it is also try to get smaller because that also counts for riding a bike. Yeah. So for example, when we buy like shampoo, we have like one soap for shampoo and the dishes and washing your clothes is like one type of soap. And then we use like a small bottle and not a big bottle. So all those kind of things help out. Yeah. So it's not only cutting your toothbrush.

Speaker 1:
[43:42] That one always just stands out to me because I'm thinking, even with the straps that you have on your packs, you could cut the extra straps off, I guess, to save a bit of weight. But I mean, I think it's, I don't know if there's really going to notice the gain. Even if you took all those little bits off, I just, I wonder if you're actually going to feel it. Like right now with the reduction that you guys have done, do you feel it in the bikes? Do you actually notice a difference? Do your friends ride with you and say, we can see how much lighter your bike is?

Speaker 3:
[44:09] Yeah, if you, for our friends are also camping really light. So they are also quite experienced in that. But last year they were impressed with how small our luggage system was and how small we got everything. Because when you think of, we make fun of the toothbrush, but everything helps, adds up. So like, you've got those packing cubes where you put your clothes in. If you don't do that kind of thing and just pack it in mesh bags, then yeah, it makes a difference.

Speaker 4:
[44:44] And it's also, if you can save on it, why not save on it? If it doesn't negatively affect your travel.

Speaker 1:
[44:52] But you mentioned walking around a camp, for instance, with your super thin shoes, that's a negative effect for sure. Certainly if you had to walk very far for anything, that could even be, but I mean, it's somewhat uncomfortable and you're putting up with that for the benefit of not having the extra weight. Same as not taking your chairs, you can have that comfort, which I mean, the Helinox chairs are like, I'm assuming they're the lightest chair out there. I don't have one, but I always look at them, but they're so expensive. Every time I get to that point, it's like, I can't pay this much money for a tiny little chair.

Speaker 3:
[45:23] They're amazing.

Speaker 1:
[45:25] That's what everybody tells me, and that always makes me feel like I should really get one of these things, but I just feel like I'm better off just sitting on my mat. I mean, I guess it just doesn't matter that much, but you're certainly making trade-offs, right? Like in comfort. I guess the trick is staying within your comfort zone.

Speaker 3:
[45:41] Yes, I think that's it. It's always look at what you find yourself comfortable in. Like for me, my pillow, that was the line, I just need a pillow, and I don't want to be cold, so I need warm gear. But for example, when we make dinner, you can use like a trash bag to make salad in it. It sounds really funny to use a trash bag, but this is just a clean bag, and you throw your salad in it and shake it around, and you've got like great salad. So it's thinking about the possibilities you have and going lighter to make the experience still good and have fun.

Speaker 1:
[46:20] Yeah, we used to use that trash bag trip actually on commercial trips. I was guiding commercial trips for doing salad for everyone. It seems bizarre, but it's a really good way to toss the salad around. It's just so much easier, right? It makes it so you don't have to have any big pot or container or anything.

Speaker 3:
[46:36] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[46:37] Yeah, certainly if you're doing a Caesar salad, it's great for that. So what are some things that we haven't talked about that you guys have learned, either products or ways of thinking about things to reduce weight and bulk on the motorcycle?

Speaker 4:
[46:54] Well, if you're talking about bulk, one of the things I really like is, like Emma mentioned, the mesh bags. We have really thin mesh bags in which we carry, for instance, all our hygiene products or stuff like cooking stuff that needs to be held together. And the nice thing about them is that they are really light, but they also are compressible, so they fit really well into your luggage, so they don't take up a lot of space. And we also, for instance, our clothing, we always put them in really small compression bags, so you can really cinch them tightly and put them in the point of your saddle bags. And something we also really learned is that it really helps to have test runs and shakedowns every once in a while, to look at your gear and check out what works and what doesn't. We label our bags. We have the roll top bags, and we put labels on them of what's in the bag, and that really keeps things organized and also makes it really fast to pack in or pack out stuff from your bags, because we don't use packing cubes or anything, so we don't have it organized in that way, but we can keep track of it because we know what's in which bag. Also, I don't know if you do it, but we keep all our wet stuff in one bag, like the tent and the rain gear and everything. We keep it in one bag and all the other stuff in the other, so it doesn't contaminate the dry stuff.

Speaker 3:
[48:45] And the last thing that we usually do, it's what really helps out for going on short adventures. Like in the weekends, sometimes we go for camping trips, then we leave our gear in the bags, so we can just put them on the bikes really quickly and go off when we're ready.

Speaker 1:
[49:03] So when you come back, you clean your gear, get it ready to go and pack it ready to go and you don't have to think about it.

Speaker 3:
[49:08] Yes, exactly. Only this deep in bag, we of course leave unpacked because otherwise the down compresses.

Speaker 4:
[49:16] That's basically the process of going through it after a trip and then packing it in again, so it's ready for the next one. We also found some things that didn't work. For instance, we, you're going to think this is ridiculous, but we tried to replace a sponge with, how do you call it, like the netting around oranges. The orange oranges have netting around them, so you can bunch it up and use it as a sponge, but that didn't really work.

Speaker 1:
[49:48] Are you talking about a sponge to wash with?

Speaker 4:
[49:50] Yeah, yeah, to do the dishes.

Speaker 1:
[49:52] Or to do the dishes, okay, I see it.

Speaker 4:
[49:54] Yeah, yeah. Yes, I do think that's funny.

Speaker 1:
[49:57] And that didn't work.

Speaker 3:
[49:59] No.

Speaker 4:
[49:59] No, that didn't work. Don't try that. It isn't much lighter and it also fell apart and got dirty really quickly.

Speaker 1:
[50:11] When you pull up, do people look at your bike and think, where's your gear?

Speaker 3:
[50:15] Yes, they don't think that we're camping.

Speaker 4:
[50:19] Most of the time they think we're riding to hotels.

Speaker 1:
[50:24] Wow. Okay, so that much is a noticeable amount. So how big are your panniers now?

Speaker 4:
[50:29] In terms of liters?

Speaker 1:
[50:31] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[50:34] We use the EnduroStand Blizzard panniers or saddlebags, and they are pretty nice because they keep the weight really close to your bike and also low and towards the center of gravity of your bike. And I think mine are 12 liters? Yeah, 12 liters.

Speaker 3:
[50:56] Mine are 14, I think, something, maybe. I don't know for sure, so don't pin me on it.

Speaker 4:
[51:01] I have the medium ones and you have the large ones.

Speaker 3:
[51:04] So they're quite small, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[51:05] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:06] And has there been anything else that you have taken out of your kit that you've regretted and had to put back in other than the sponge? The hairbrush, I guess, too.

Speaker 4:
[51:17] Yeah, the hairbrush.

Speaker 3:
[51:19] You missed the coffee setup, so this year, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[51:23] I really like coffee in the morning. I can go without it, but I kind of get grumpy if I don't have my coffee. So we usually ride by a gas station at some point in the day, but if it's not in the morning, I kind of miss my coffee. But we found something for that as well. We found a small titanium coffee straw, so you can just pour coffee in a cup.

Speaker 3:
[51:49] Like a cowboy set up.

Speaker 4:
[51:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[51:51] And you can... Straw?

Speaker 4:
[51:52] Yeah, it's a straw with like a mesh filter at the bottom, and it filters the coffee while you drink it.

Speaker 1:
[51:59] So you're putting the coffee into the cup with the water, and then you're sucking it out through a straw.

Speaker 4:
[52:05] Yeah. And it sounds weird. I was anxious at first as well, but I tried it at home, and it's pretty nice. It's nice.

Speaker 1:
[52:14] Why not a filter? Why not just paper filters? Take a few paper filters with you. When you use it, you will have your coffee in there, and you stick it on top of things until you get to a gas station and be able to throw it out.

Speaker 4:
[52:26] Yeah, that would work too, I guess, but you still need to have some kind of thing to hold the filter, which there are pretty light options for that.

Speaker 1:
[52:34] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[52:36] But I haven't tried those yet. We have some heavier options for that, that's basically heavier than the straw.

Speaker 1:
[52:43] Right. So, okay. So all of this has you just with an incredibly light setup, you're very mobile, but this and the bike being small too, the bike is a 300, both of your motorcycles are 300s. There are times when this actually doesn't pay off, because I know there was one point, you guys used a trailer to trailer your bikes, because I think what you said in the video was there's too much highway. Talk about that.

Speaker 4:
[53:13] Yeah, the small bikes, the Crf300L are not really that comfortable on the highway. Our trip was going from Slovenia to Montenegro, so we wanted to start at Slovenia, because we only had three weeks to travel that distance. But when you start from Slovenia, and you need to go there from the Netherlands, that's quite a trip. I think it's 2,000 kilometers.

Speaker 3:
[53:40] I don't know, but I think if we rode it on the bikes, we would have done about three days about it, maybe two.

Speaker 1:
[53:48] So it's quite a ride.

Speaker 3:
[53:50] Yeah. And in the car we rode in one go, because we switched riding.

Speaker 4:
[53:58] Yeah, so that gave us two days extra of riding. And also the tires we run are pretty soft off-road tires, so they would be pretty far gone as well if we took that much kilometers on the highway with them. But still a bigger bike would be more comfortable to do that.

Speaker 1:
[54:21] Yeah, it would make it so, I mean, that's the whole point of the big bike, right? So you can ride it in the dirt and your trade-off is, you know, it's bigger, it's heavier, but you pull it on the highway and you cruise along in relative comfort. So I mean, that makes a big difference. The tire thing, you just mentioned at the end though, if you run an aggressive tire, it's something that everybody who runs knobbies thinks about, you know, when doing large miles of any sort of asphalt, it always strikes me as a waste. You know, I don't want to waste the knobbies on the highway.

Speaker 4:
[54:49] Yeah. Yeah. It just feels wrong.

Speaker 1:
[54:52] Yeah, it does. And it's like you lose your best miles sort of thing on your tire on the highway, which is just seems like such a waste.

Speaker 4:
[55:00] Yeah, especially if it's on the start of your trip, like you said, you wasted the nicest part of the tire.

Speaker 1:
[55:08] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[55:09] If it's on the end, I don't really care because you're changing it in a while anyway.

Speaker 1:
[55:14] Yeah. So has this whole approach been expensive for you? I know you enjoy doing it, I get that, but has it cost a lot of money?

Speaker 4:
[55:24] Yeah, well, ultra light gear is pretty expensive. So the tent and the camping gear is pretty expensive. But if you take into account that we mostly wild camp, so you save a lot on camping cost or hotel costs.

Speaker 1:
[55:45] Sure.

Speaker 4:
[55:48] I think it kind of compensates for it. And we also have used the tent and sleeping setup for five years now.

Speaker 3:
[55:58] Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4:
[55:59] And my sleeping mat only just went leaking this year, so that's pretty okay. And we got it under warranty.

Speaker 1:
[56:10] Wow, that's pretty good.

Speaker 4:
[56:12] Yeah, that was amazing. I have the NEMO Tensor sleeping mat and they were really lenient on the warranty because a lot of the dimples went leaking and they refunded it.

Speaker 1:
[56:25] Well, you did mention when you're working with your toolkit, you're doing some home stuff there, you're cutting stuff down and making your own tool kit. That can certainly not save some weight and not cost you a lot of money. But yeah, when it comes to lightweight camping gear and clothing for that matter, if you want top quality clothing, you have to pay more money for it. But like you're saying, in the long run, it's well worth it because the other upside of buying that higher quality gear is that it tends to last longer. And you're saying you have five years with this stuff already, and it's the same stuff, and you're camping a lot. So that's sort of a payoff down the road for you.

Speaker 3:
[57:02] Yeah, totally.

Speaker 4:
[57:02] Yeah, buy once, cry once.

Speaker 1:
[57:05] Right. Do you ever find, like we were talking about this time, when you put the bikes in the trailer and had to trailer them, do you find that you get to areas where sometimes you're limited by your setup? And just before you answer, I'll give you an example. I always remember this couple that came and rode with us, myself and another guy for a day. And I remember we were riding around, and we were on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. And we said, oh, we're going to zip up Island for a bit. And they said, well, how far? And it struck me as an odd thing to ask, how far? And then they explained it because they were on, I think they were on 400s, DRZ 400s. They said that the highway is just so aggravating for them. It's actually not worth it for them to go up and check out this other area. So it's sort of limited, you know, it's the big trade-off. So do you find that? Do you run into that very much?

Speaker 3:
[57:52] Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4:
[57:53] No, not really. We do have a 6th gear on the CRF. Just kidding. We have the two friends we drive with a lot, they have DRZ 400s. So we kind of tease them with having a 6th gear.

Speaker 1:
[58:07] Oh, right. My 350 is a 6th gear.

Speaker 4:
[58:10] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[58:11] But it doesn't help, because it doesn't feel very good on the highway at all.

Speaker 4:
[58:15] Now, and the CRFs are not really nice on the highway. Well, to be honest, we visit a lot of events, or we try to visit events in the Netherlands. And if it's far away, like the other side of the Netherlands, which is not really far away, but it's about a two-hour ride. We did buy a van recently to put the bikes into, so we can ride the van towards an event. So it's more comfortable to get there and just ride over there on the bikes and not be annoyed by the highway.

Speaker 3:
[58:51] But it's also because we have like open-faced helmets that ride on the highway. We like to speak while riding. We've got a communication system. And when we're riding on the highway, we can't re-hear each other that good. So yeah, it's also the fun is of it. Because when I go to work sometimes, I also go on the CRF. And then I don't mind riding on the highway, but it's especially when we're together and yeah, you can understand each other.

Speaker 1:
[59:21] So you're planning your trips around this really. You're planning the trips around the way your bikes are set up, the way your gear is set up.

Speaker 4:
[59:29] Yeah, and I think that is also part of why we don't really experience the negative effects, because we really like the trips we do without much highway miles. But if you like also touring in between the off-road stuff, then yeah, you would run into problems with the CRF and the comfort level, I think.

Speaker 1:
[59:55] If weight weren't an issue, what would you take with you? I mean, if you could take something, it just wouldn't add anything to your weight.

Speaker 3:
[60:04] I think like fear gear. So because sometimes you're worried that you've got like all the tools with you. Like last trip, we used like two tires. And but you're still worried because hey, is there a second tire going to be used or a third? And so I think the fear gear is the thing I would think of the most.

Speaker 4:
[60:28] Yeah, mostly the things that could stop our trip from continuing.

Speaker 3:
[60:34] A bigger cooking setup, more food space. So when we ride, we leave some space in our bags to bring more food with us. But I would rather take more food with us.

Speaker 1:
[60:47] How much more weight do you think there is to remove?

Speaker 4:
[60:52] Not that much, I think.

Speaker 1:
[60:53] You're right down to the wire sort of thing. You're taking exactly what you need, and very little more.

Speaker 3:
[61:00] I think in our comfort level, this is where we want to be staying at. But I think you can always go lighter, but it depends on how comfortable you want to be. For us, this is it.

Speaker 1:
[61:12] Well, camping is the big deal, isn't it? Camping is what makes it more difficult. If you're staying in hotels, you basically just have your tools and very little else, a first aid kit sort of thing, and away you go. But it's camping that makes it more difficult.

Speaker 3:
[61:25] Yes, and if you look like a true hiker, there are people who bring even less, like a tarp with them only, and cooking set up for cold soaking. So not even cooking, but they have a pot to cold soak their food, and don't even bring a heater or something. So it all depends on your level of comfort.

Speaker 4:
[61:47] Yeah, so we could go lighter if we didn't take a cooking set up, but we really like cooking, so we do. So that's maybe something we're not willing to compromise on.

Speaker 1:
[62:00] So if you were to tell someone else how to go through it and light up the gear, not necessarily to the same way you've done it, because you did make the point that to each their own sort of thing, right? You got to do it to your own comfort level. But if you're going to tell somebody using what you've learned, how to figure out how to lighten your gear, aside from cutting your toothbrush in half and not taking a hairbrush, how would you tell them to do it?

Speaker 3:
[62:22] Yeah, question everything. Just think like, do I need what I take along with me? So if you pack your gear and think about like, is this comfort? Do I need this? And can I bring something lighter with me? Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[62:42] Also, yeah, you can always like, it also really depends on where you're starting, right? So if you're, yeah, with really standard gear or you haven't looked at this in any way possible, you could maybe start with things like your tent and your sleeping setup, because there's a lot of advantages to be had there. You can really shave off a lot there. And in terms of all the other things, like I said earlier, you don't have to upgrade everything from the start, but when you're buying new gear, when you're thinking of buying new gear, we always think about do we really need to buy new gear? Do we really need that thing we're trying to upgrade? And if so, can we make it smaller or lighter in some way? Or can we take less of it?

Speaker 1:
[63:35] And how do you tell the difference between fear gear, which you called it, Emma, versus something that you probably should take with you?

Speaker 4:
[63:44] That's a hard one.

Speaker 3:
[63:45] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[63:46] It's really...

Speaker 3:
[63:49] It also depends on planning your trip ahead. Sometimes you do a longer trip and you don't know where you're going to end up. But if you, for example, go to a hotter climate, then you don't need to bring a lot of layers. Or if you don't go to an area where there are no bears, then you don't need to bring bear spray. So, planning your trip ahead, thinking about where you're going.

Speaker 4:
[64:15] And also in terms of tools, if you think about what are you realistically going to repair on your bike on the trail?

Speaker 3:
[64:25] Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 4:
[64:27] So, something we do as well as we wrench on our bikes with our toolkit a lot, so we get used to it and know if we miss something. So, you also get more comfortable with your toolkit and are more comfortable throwing stuff out. But also, yeah, you're not going to take apart the whole engine on the side of the road. So, if you have road assistance, it's fine. You don't need to take everything.

Speaker 3:
[65:01] Yeah, especially if you don't, for example, know how to remove your spark plug and how to do that, then yeah, why take the tools?

Speaker 1:
[65:11] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's only so much we can do on the side of a trail before you're going to have to figure something else out of getting out. And the interesting thing is about fear gear, because I think that's really a big problem for a lot of us. Is you think, well, I might need this and I might need that. And it takes me back to something you said earlier, was you said every gram counts. And so when you're throwing in, well, I'll throw in another spare battery, a little AA battery or something like that, and it doesn't weigh much. No, it doesn't. But once you add up a bunch of those little things you've added in your fear gear, you're looking at a lot more. And what I often think about this is that when we're talking about riding and going wild camping, for those of us who love to go and wild camp and ride remote areas, you're still, and you said it, Luuk, you're almost in a gas station every day. I mean, it's unavoidable, right? So it's not like we're heading off to the wilderness for a 30-day canneeling trip. You know, you have an opportunity to get something the next day.

Speaker 4:
[66:08] Yeah. And you can get stuff like an extra t-shirt as well.

Speaker 1:
[66:12] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[66:13] And what's for us is a luxury, because we are with both of us on two bikes. But if one of our bikes breaks down and we can't fix it, we can always leave one bike behind and go somewhere to repair. But I can imagine if you're alone on one bike, then you want to bring a bit more with you, like food.

Speaker 1:
[66:31] Yeah. Yeah. Survival stuff. You know, if you thought you might have to stay there for a day or two or something like that. Also communications. I'm assuming you guys carry comms with you, some sort of satellite communicator or cell phones.

Speaker 3:
[66:44] Yes, we got a phone that can have like emergency communication with it.

Speaker 4:
[66:50] We cut it in half though.

Speaker 1:
[66:54] That's a great idea. I mean, you can pop it out of its case, right? And just have the electronics there. That might be... I don't think you can do that nowadays. But is that the reason you're wearing open face helmets?

Speaker 4:
[67:06] Is it to save the weight?

Speaker 3:
[67:08] No, no, it's comfort.

Speaker 1:
[67:10] Oh, I see.

Speaker 4:
[67:11] The time we went riding in Romania for the training we mentioned, it was like 40 degrees Celsius plus, and we didn't have the motocross style helmets yet, or I didn't have one, and it was horrible. So I didn't want to go to a warmer climate without an open face helmet anymore.

Speaker 1:
[67:37] 40 degrees Celsius, like 110 or something like that, Fahrenheit?

Speaker 4:
[67:41] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[67:41] Like that's hot.

Speaker 3:
[67:42] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[67:44] Yeah, it's really a lot when you're in a forest, riding intensively. I'm also curious, how do you think about riding lighter? You bought a lighter bike. Before you had the DR, you had a F800, right?

Speaker 1:
[68:02] Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the F800 went down to the 350. I love riding a lighter bike. When you're riding any sort of technical things, it's more forgiving, it's easier to do, and I can go more places without the stress. I think because a lot of times I'm riding solo. So for me, when I ride into somewhere, I think if I have a problem here and I can't get myself out, what is it going to take to get out? Or generally, what is it going to take to get out? And I've had my 800 into some really tight spots on single tracks and ATV tracks and things like that, where it's very difficult, and I've worked really, really hard. And also, I'm not getting any younger either. So the bike tends to get heavier every year. So picking up the 800, which thankfully, I'm picking up bikes less now, but still when you do it, it's never easy. It's not like picking it up in a parking lot or something like that, that's nothing. And we see all the pickup demos of picking up your motorcycle, it's on a nice lawn or something like that. That's never my world. My world is mud and angles and ruts, and it's just so stressful. So the lighter bike is so much easier. And what I find with the 350 is that when I go into somewhere, if I get stuck, I'm not really that stuck. Like I can get off it and I can power it through. I mean, it just gives me a lot more versatility, I find. The downside though, I find, you get on the highway and the 350 is just not fun. It's just the size of it, your exposure, the way it reacts to the wind, things like that. That's the downside. So for something where I'm going slower speeds and much more technical, there's no doubt that the 350 is well worth it. Getting on the highway, a bigger bike is much better. I think a lot when a lot of people talk about downsizing, this question comes up a lot, especially as people get older, they're thinking maybe I should go with a smaller bike. There are huge advantages, all of what, like I said, what you both said, but that disadvantage really is the highway. And so, I mean, if you're covering those great distances, I think it's the asset in the trail, I don't know, you have to weigh it for yourself. Of course, everyone has to. But my thought process is if you have many miles to go, or you're planning on doing trips that are far away from home and you're going to be riding some highway, you really want to think about that smaller bike thing. Maybe what you want to do is change the end, the goal that you have, you know, change the trail that you're going to run, ride a bigger bike and do less technical stuff, and keep your technical stuff for closer to home, or like what you guys have done, buy a van or a trailer or something and get it there. Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[70:36] Yeah, that's our thought as well. And we still enjoy riding the bigger bikes off-road here as well. The DR650 and the KLX650, they're really fun to ride, just some more power really in the soft sand, it's really nice in the mud, it's really nice to ride bigger bikes as well.

Speaker 1:
[70:55] And do you find yourself still riding off-road stuff with those bikes?

Speaker 4:
[70:59] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[70:59] Yeah, especially the KLX.

Speaker 4:
[71:01] Yeah, the KLX650 is really fun to ride.

Speaker 1:
[71:04] Well that's great you guys, and thanks so much for coming on and talking about that. I mean, lightweight gear is, or getting your, making your gear lighter, is a subject that we all deal with, right? And it's difficult to do. So thanks so much.

Speaker 3:
[71:16] Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[71:24] I was speaking with Luuk and Emma Davids from their home in the Netherlands. Now they share many of their adventures on their YouTube channel called Skidmate. We've got that link and some photos from Luuk and Emma in the show notes for this episode on our website, adventureriderradio.com. This episode was brought to you in part by Green Chili Adventure Gear at greenchiliadv.com, Best Rest Products at cyclepump.com. Anytime you're dealing with these companies or anything you hear on Adventure Rider Radio, let them know you heard them here. And this show is built on a model of advertising and listener support. The combination of the two, we'd really appreciate it if you go to adventureriderradio.com and click on support. So that wraps up another episode of Adventure Rider Radio, and we sure hope you enjoyed listening to it as much as we did making it. Remember to drop by our website, adventureriderradio.com. You can see all the episodes that we do. We have show notes for each of them. We've got photographs in there and links from the people that we talked to. So all that is at adventureriderradio.com. And while you're there, this episode as well as every episode we do for this and our other show, Adventure Rider Radio Raw, are supported by a mix of advertising and listener support. We need your support. Drop by our website, adventureriderradio.com. Click on the support button. We get a bunch of different ways you can do it and some different rewards for you for doing it. We have a great group of people that support us on Patreon every month, as well as people who support us through single occasional donations. So either way is great. Whatever you choose would be greatly appreciated. And it is how this show is built. Now it's time to get out there and ride your bike. If you can. My name is Jim Martin. Special thanks to our producer, Elizabeth Martin, and I will talk to you next week.

Speaker 3:
[73:35] Hi, this is Bill Dragoo.

Speaker 1:
[73:36] You're listening to Adventure Rider Radio.