transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] I love that you identified your own anger issues and then went and then got help for your anger issues. Nothing terrible happened. Nobody had to intervene.

Speaker 2:
[00:08] Yeah, because I knew that that wasn't matching up to the life that I wanted. I wouldn't be able to take me, my little angry, crazy girl self, and do the things that I wanted to do. And that was so clear to me. I was like, this is not gonna roll. This is not gonna work in a workplace.

Speaker 1:
[00:26] Hey guys, this episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. When you look at the word boss, I mean her face should just appear. As a young kid in London, she was born an entrepreneur. She built billion dollar brands like Good American and Skims, all while being a wife and a mother of four. She's a trailblazer in business, breaking barriers. Her debut book, Start With Yourself is out now, and it got gems in it. Emma Grede is our guest today on IRL ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2:
[00:54] Thank you.

Speaker 1:
[00:56] Emma, you are out here working.

Speaker 2:
[00:58] I am out in these streets.

Speaker 1:
[01:00] I don't know if it's my algorithms gives me you. My algorithm serves me.

Speaker 2:
[01:03] I'm angling my way to you, Angie. I'm like, get me closer.

Speaker 1:
[01:06] No, no, but you are working. We met recently for the first time. Not that recently.

Speaker 2:
[01:11] A year ago?

Speaker 1:
[01:12] Was it a year ago? At the Skims store launch here in New York.

Speaker 2:
[01:15] Yes, it's the New York store launch.

Speaker 1:
[01:17] We had a brief.

Speaker 2:
[01:17] You were busy though. You were, you know, around with your friends and all. I was like, hi, Angie. It's nice to meet you.

Speaker 1:
[01:24] You were, no, you were already like, no, they came up to me and they were like, Emma Grede would like to meet you. I was like, I would love to meet her.

Speaker 2:
[01:30] I did. I always, I have no shame. Anyone I want to meet, I'm like, I want to meet her. Can you introduce me? Do you know her? I think it was Tiana Taylor or someone. I was just literally like, I want to meet Angie.

Speaker 1:
[01:41] Oh, that's so sweet. It was, it was, it was lovely. But yes, we didn't have a time to connect. I think even from that moment, even to now, from last year to now, has your life changed tremendously? Or is it just from the outside that it seems like it's changed tremendously?

Speaker 2:
[01:56] That is a great question. My life hasn't changed at all. Really? But it's so funny because I don't know that my life feels like it's changed for a really long time. There's such an interesting perception that's out there. Honestly, it's one of the reasons that I wrote this book. Because I honestly feel like people see one version of you and the reality of your life is so different. So I was like, let me write a book. It tells the truth about actually my life and what it is.

Speaker 1:
[02:21] It's not just the book though. It's the podcast, it's your public presence, is way more significant than it was a year ago.

Speaker 2:
[02:29] For real, but my work life hasn't changed. My life life hasn't changed. That's what I mean. I think the perception does a funny thing. You know what it's like if you have a bit of a following and people see you on social media, they conflate the two things. They imagine that you run into your office, took a picture at your desk and went about your day. It's like, no, I am working. I'm actually working. I go in, I work a role, I have a job. And so it's interesting that people have become much more interested in me. But the reality of my life is it hasn't changed very much at all.

Speaker 1:
[03:00] But your profile.

Speaker 2:
[03:01] The profile has shifted and that I'm very aware of. It's purposeful. I think I'm trying to do it in a way where I can equate what I've got now with some impact because I really know that there's so much that I can do and I'm very, very focused.

Speaker 1:
[03:17] Sometimes fame, because it's not fame you're really after, but it's fame comes with the profile that you now have. And I just wonder if it's, I don't know, done anything to you, surprised you in any way, challenging to manage.

Speaker 2:
[03:32] You know, for me, it's so interesting because all I get is amazing women. You know, I'm not like famous, famous, so no one's like checking for what I'm wearing. I live like a normal life. What I get is women will stop me on the street. They will slide me little notes in restaurants. I got this beautiful note from this lady the other day and I, I could have cried. I was interviewing someone at the time, so I couldn't read it. I put it in my bag. I got home and I was like, you know, she said, you know, she was like, Emma, you have to understand how much you mean to women like me, how much you mean to women who come from a place where they might not have had the right start, but they are working and they're trying. And it was so heartfelt and she was so, first of all, she didn't even put her name or a contact detail on there. She just wanted me to know and so I get a lot of that and that, of course, I never used to get, you know. But the end of the day, it's like my life is still the same. My life is a series of problems every single day. No one calls me to say everything's going right, you know, we're selling out. They only call me with problems. And so it hasn't changed all that much.

Speaker 1:
[04:34] You have to know that this book is set up for humongous success. I mean, do you see that already?

Speaker 2:
[04:41] I hope so, yes. I mean, so far, listen, I'm a day in, so I don't want to come at this with too much.

Speaker 1:
[04:47] You have poured it so much in here that I really want to use this as like, I don't know, just the frame of our conversation today. And then somewhere in the beginning, you mentioned women being exhausted.

Speaker 2:
[04:59] Exhausted.

Speaker 1:
[05:00] Right.

Speaker 2:
[05:00] Exhausted.

Speaker 1:
[05:01] Somewhere in the beginning of it, you said that. And I thought, yes, women are exhausted because it's career, it's emotional health, it's family, it's mother, parenting, it's love, all of the things.

Speaker 2:
[05:16] It's relentless. It's relentless. We're getting so much phone at us all the time that I thought, I'm going to write a book that people use, not that they read because we've got enough to do. And so it was really important to me that people would read this and then they would get something and they could put it into action in their lives.

Speaker 1:
[05:31] I love how honest you are in the book about some of the anger and forgiveness and your way of navigating some real life thing. So we'll go through that. But in the scheme of business and money, I've heard you many times talk about-

Speaker 2:
[05:50] My favorite subject.

Speaker 1:
[05:51] Is it really?

Speaker 2:
[05:52] Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1:
[05:52] Money.

Speaker 2:
[05:53] Yeah. I want it to be every woman's favorite subject. That's the aim.

Speaker 1:
[05:57] I'm working on that. This is a big mistake I've made in my life.

Speaker 2:
[06:01] You feel like that?

Speaker 1:
[06:02] Yes. It's because I came from a family and a mentality of money isn't everything. Money shouldn't control you. Money is the root of all evil. Yes. All they care about is money. Really? It's not that I don't enjoy money.

Speaker 2:
[06:22] Some of that is true. It's like money doesn't solve all your problems, but it solves all your money problems. I feel like we have to advocate for it for ourselves, because no one's coming to find you, no one's coming to give you money or power or any of that. I do feel like as women, we have to take a level of responsibility for the fact that we don't talk about money as to why it eludes us. Why does it miss us? Why are men paid so much more than women? Why is that the case that it's so much easier for men to raise money than it is for women? We all know that there are systemic barriers, there are systems that keep us small, but at the end of the day, we also have a part to play in all of that. I want us to recognize that and recognize that we can change our behavior and get more of it.

Speaker 1:
[07:03] What are we doing wrong? What is the number one thing we do wrong?

Speaker 2:
[07:06] We are not talking about it. Now, we're just not talking about it.

Speaker 1:
[07:08] How does that look? What does that look like in real time?

Speaker 2:
[07:10] I'll tell you what it looks like. First of all, it's like education. I think about myself as always in learning mode. Every day, I'm learning something and I learned about money because much like you, I didn't come from a place where A, we had any money, so there wasn't that much to talk about. It was always that, what don't we have? Where are we going to spend? What we don't have? How are we keeping the lights on? That's what I learned. But when I got into the professional environment, it was always like you don't share with your colleagues what you earn, you don't talk about money, that's crass. Actually, what I think that we need to do is put money right in the center of our plans. We need to say, I am worth this, this is what I should be being paid and we need to educate ourselves. So you need to understand your mortgage, you need to understand your investment planning, you need to understand what's in your future. If you don't know, you got to get to know, you got to make it your business. Because money and power, they're linked, right? Inextricably linked. And we're in a place and time in the world right now where we actually need more women in positions of power. But again, it's not going to happen without us. It's not going to happen passively. It's our responsibility to say, you know what? I need more of this and I'm going to advocate for myself and I'm going to educate myself and I'm going to learn as much as I possibly can. And that's what I do all the time. I ask questions.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 2:
[09:40] Hello, I'm a creative business woman.

Speaker 1:
[09:42] You are a creative business woman for sure. No. And so I think sometimes where creative is concerned, like what comes first, the creative or the opportunity to make money, you know? I don't know. I just, I just wonder how you navigate that or all money, or all money ain't good money. Is all money good money? I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2:
[10:03] What do you think? I mean, most money is good money. I don't know about you. She said most money is good money. I mean, I think most money is good money. Here's the thing. I think that it's really important that you're not sacrificing yourself for money, right? Yes. I still think at the end of the day, I'm still Emma from East London. I'm exactly the same person that I was when I was 12 years old. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[10:22] There's no integrity like bending or-

Speaker 2:
[10:25] No, because I don't think that you have to. I actually think that you can care about money and care about a lot of other things too. You can do deeply meaningful, impactful work, creative work and be paid for it. What we've done is we've said like, I'm a creative, I'm in non-profit, I do something so worthy therefore, and I'm like, absolutely not. The two things can exist at the same time. Too often, we're giving away our gifts for free before we've even valued ourselves, before we've even valued the service. I'm like, there is never a time when it makes sense to give something away for free without a plan. I worked for a full year for free, doing work placements back in the day when you could do that. But it was always with a plan and a goal for what I wanted on the other side. It was always with an aim that I'm going to get a job at one of these places, that's going to be my entry point into fashion. You have to have a plan if you're giving away your services for free and you have to have a plan as to how you're going to get to the money. That's important. That's important stuff.

Speaker 1:
[11:25] Yeah. I think there's also, if you're a business person, there's great stuff in here, but also just life. There's just great life lessons in here. Like you talk about planning your life in your 20s, in your 30s, and then your 40s, you have to plan like, what is my 40s going to be?

Speaker 2:
[11:42] Absolutely.

Speaker 1:
[11:42] I love this because we just had Jill Scott on the other recently. Do you not love Jill?

Speaker 2:
[11:46] I die.

Speaker 1:
[11:47] So Jill was on, we had a great episode with Jill, and she has a theory about 20s, 30s, 40s. It was Jill said, when you're in your 20s, you work hard.

Speaker 2:
[11:55] Facts.

Speaker 1:
[11:56] In your 30s, you work smart. In your 40s, you work how you want. In your 50s, you work when you want. In your 60s, you work if you want.

Speaker 2:
[12:09] Love. Jill's got it down. Right? She has got it so down.

Speaker 1:
[12:13] It's so good.

Speaker 2:
[12:14] Literally, that is so good because that thing about how you work in your 20s, it's like there's a time and a place. I think what people don't really understand is that life is so long. Even the idea that she's taking us from 20s to 70s. It's like there's 50 years in between that, but we really overestimate what you can do in a year and underestimate what you can do in 10. I like to make these plans for myself because it helps ground me. In my decision making, I know what to say no to because I know if it's not taking me closer to one of my goals, I don't need to do it. But I like to, and I set the book up in the beginning, I say, have a vision for your life. That's not a vision boards and it's not manifestation.

Speaker 1:
[12:56] Okay, so explain though that clearly.

Speaker 2:
[12:58] Ambition needs to find you working. You cannot think your way or consume your way. I love a podcast, I have a podcast, but it's like, you can't listen to podcasts and think that that's gonna get you closer to where you wanna go. You gotta do the work, right? It's like we have to and even if the best one.

Speaker 1:
[13:13] You can read 75 self help books.

Speaker 2:
[13:15] Doesn't matter, that's not gonna help you. You have to help yourself. And so I think when you have a vision for like, what type of person do I wanna be? What type of woman do I wanna be? What type of care and what are my values? What are my principles? And then you work out what you want your life to be like based on that. You say like, these are the things that are important to me. My family is really important to me. So I'm gonna make sure that I ring fence these moments in the year to do these things because I want those memories. I'm gonna prioritize X, Y and Z in my work life because it's important that I make this money and that won't happen unless I get to there. So I think the plan is really about mapping things out and then having a path on where you're gonna work towards it. You ain't gonna fish and board it.

Speaker 1:
[13:59] It's also helpful too so that you don't waste your time doing things that don't serve you, right? Like that's part of that.

Speaker 2:
[14:04] We've all had years like that. We've all had years where we get lost and we get taken on someone else's agenda. And that's what I don't want for women.

Speaker 1:
[14:12] You were talking in here about how women, especially, we care so much about other people's things. Like, is somebody underpaid? Is somebody working too hard? Is somebody like you?

Speaker 2:
[14:24] And your kids.

Speaker 1:
[14:26] You worry about everyone else.

Speaker 2:
[14:27] But yourself. You're last on your list. And I actually wanna make sure that we are like right at the top of our list of priorities. As a mother of four, I think people get very put off by that idea of me saying, you know, I put myself first, I start with myself. But when I'm good, everyone's been around me.

Speaker 1:
[14:43] They can't wait to call you like, Anne Wintour. All the things. Like Miranda.

Speaker 2:
[14:48] Miranda. I'll take it. I'm like Miranda's successful.

Speaker 1:
[14:51] I'm just saying, they can't wait to do that to successful women.

Speaker 2:
[14:53] Every time. Well, we're held to very different standards than successful men, right? Because we have to be, you know, nurturing and empathetic and a baller and look good and an incredible wife. And it's like, that's impossible. That's why I wrote this book. That's why women are exhausted. That's why we're exhausted. But I want to say like there's a trade-off. There is a way to do this. You know, I feel like Oprah said it best. She said, you can have it all, but not all at the same time, which is really true. But I want women to choose. I don't want us to be kind of taken on a journey. And I think that this book is going to teach people how you get the choice.

Speaker 1:
[15:29] But also, you've chosen well in a partner.

Speaker 2:
[15:34] Oh, god damn, yes.

Speaker 1:
[15:36] Who's helped you? You talk about the importance of, you don't want a business partner that you don't share responsibilities with equally, and you don't want a marriage also where your partner is not sharing.

Speaker 2:
[15:49] I think who you choose to spend your life with, your private life is probably the most important business decision you'll ever make, because they're either going to add to you or they're going to really take away. If you don't have someone who's in support of the greater vision of you and yourself, like you are in trouble, like you're in so much trouble.

Speaker 1:
[16:08] Did you know that going into marriage?

Speaker 2:
[16:10] Yeah. You know what? I knew that. I mean, my husband's Swedish, right? Swedish society is very interesting. It's very matriarchal society. So there's this balance from the get-go. But I also never assumed that I would be the lead parent and have to teach him stuff. You know, it's like, I'm going to teach him how to change a diaper, make a sandwich. Like no, like he's going to figure that stuff out. I'm also not going to micromanage my husband. I don't think that's my job. And you know, I really believe that I have a life and he has a life, and we have this incredible life together. But I wasn't going to sacrifice the things that I wanted. And I was lucky that I had a husband who is unbelievably supportive.

Speaker 1:
[16:50] I just think for women who are looking for that partner, if you have to be conscious of that as you're looking for the partner. Like, did you stumble into that? And then make it work?

Speaker 2:
[16:59] I think I attract that.

Speaker 1:
[17:00] Oh, you attracted that, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[17:01] I think that I attract that because that's the only type of partner I've ever had. Like, I don't, I think that, you know, in that early process, like, you know, people show you, they tell you who they are, they tell you how they're gonna be, you see how they move.

Speaker 1:
[17:16] You never went through like a young, there was never a young Emma who was making bad decisions in men.

Speaker 2:
[17:23] For a night, maybe, but no longer, no longer. I made stupid decisions, like, in a moment, and I realized in the morning that that was not for me. I was like, oh! You know, I, yeah, like, I...

Speaker 1:
[17:36] You were never, like, into bad boys or anything?

Speaker 2:
[17:39] Not a chance, you know, I don't have the disposition for it. You let me down, I am out. I'm gone. I just, do you know what I mean? I've such a... And it isn't even about, like, high self-worth, it's just, like, low tolerance. Like, I have zero tolerance for someone who's gonna mess me around, like, miss a phone call, I'm like, bye. Like, no. Do you know what I mean? Because I never believed that, like, oh, they'll get better, like, things are gonna change. I'm like, they don't, it won't, move on. And also they were like so many boys when I was little, you know?

Speaker 1:
[18:09] Oh, you're out here, you're cute, you're smart.

Speaker 2:
[18:11] You know, I was like, come on, we'll just move on and try something else.

Speaker 1:
[18:16] You never went through, let me fix somebody or any of that type of thing. Never. Really, good for you.

Speaker 2:
[18:20] But that's not to say I didn't have, like, some not so great boyfriends that were, like, you know, messing around and doing whatever that they were doing. But like, not with me knowing and not with me tolerating anything. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's just not.

Speaker 1:
[18:33] So it wasn't so much that you were looking for this type of partner, it's that your behavior warranted and you found somebody because you were moving around that way.

Speaker 2:
[18:42] I think so. And I think I have really high standards, not just with everyone around me, right? It's like my entire team, I have high standards. But also I give a lot. And I think when you're a person who gives a lot and has high expectations, like that comes back to you. And so as soon as I get a signal, it's like anything, right? If I get a signal that something's off, that I'm not getting equal back, it's like, I'm gone. Goodbye. I'm gone. That's the East London in me, though. That's like where I come from, you don't suffer fools. Like you are expected to tell the truth, to do what you say you're going to do, to be true to your word and suffer the consequences if you don't. So it's like I don't have time for foolishness.

Speaker 1:
[19:23] Yeah. Plus you are a woman on a mission.

Speaker 2:
[19:24] I'm on a mission. I've got time. But you know that literally, like I don't have the energy, like I would lose it.

Speaker 1:
[19:31] Yeah. I don't even need my cards because it goes naturally. What were you just talking about?

Speaker 2:
[19:39] About being angry on that way you were going.

Speaker 1:
[19:41] No, it wasn't. Oh, about the anger, anger issues. But after you talked about that, I love that you identified your own anger issues and then went and then got help for your anger issues. Nothing terrible happened. Nobody had to intervene. When I first heard that you went to anger management, I was like, oh God, something must have happened. I've been arrested or something. No, she had an incident on the train and she was like, oh God, I'm so angry. And then went and fixed it yourself. You identified the problem within yourself and went and worked on it.

Speaker 2:
[20:11] Yeah, because I knew that that wasn't matching up to the life that I wanted. I wouldn't be able to take me, my little angry, crazy girl self, and do the things that I wanted to do. And that was so clear to me. I was like, this is not going to roll. This is not going to work in a workplace.

Speaker 1:
[20:25] So you worked on that. You got a hold of that, managed that.

Speaker 2:
[20:28] And I still work on that every day. Yes. And I still sometimes lose it because I can get eyes with people. And they're just like, you know, it's something that you have to work on every single day. Like in the same way that I work on being really sad sometimes.

Speaker 1:
[20:43] Well, what is the anger? What is that? Where does that come from? What does that root in?

Speaker 2:
[20:46] I think that is like, I'm hardwired like that. I am not, you know, I think it's so much a factor of my upbringing. You know, I wasn't taught to be thoughtful. We certainly weren't. I wasn't ever taught that you could like take a breath and move past something. I was always taught that if something happened to you, because someone was disrespecting you, someone was like, you were going to look after yourself and you were going to lash out. And that just becomes like a pattern, like a loop in your system and it wires and wires and it gets more and more attuned unless you deal with it. And so I think that that is very much who I am. And I have to work all the time and make sure that I keep, myself, like my head above water, keep practicing, keep training.

Speaker 1:
[21:31] I wondered if it was hard or if sometimes it could be triggered by it. Because I know a lot of amazing, super high functioning women, right? And there is an impatience. The women that I know that I run big companies and stuff, they're all kind of impatient.

Speaker 2:
[21:48] Yeah, I'm definitely impatient.

Speaker 1:
[21:50] And so I can see that triggering anger, almost anger.

Speaker 2:
[21:56] But here's my thing, I've worked every single one of the jobs, right? So it's like, I have an understanding for what it takes to pack the boxes, to do the assistant job, to work your way up the ranks, to be a mid-level executive. I did all the things. And so you're like, do you swear on this show? Yes, please.

Speaker 1:
[22:14] For the love of God. Did you see how we started our day today with our TikTok?

Speaker 2:
[22:18] But in England, they say you can't fuck a fucker. I am a person who understands. If you come to me with an excuse, if you come to me telling me it's gonna take three hours and I can do it in 45 minutes, I'm like, I have been there. I did that thing. So then I have an impatience, but I'm not gonna get angry about that. I feel like the things that I get angry about are when I feel like people don't care because I care the most. I care about everything. I care about the glass, the tablecloth, the thing that, you know, it's like that's how I come into what I do. And so if you show a lack of care, you get anger. I'm going to take a deep breath. But you won't work with me for very long.

Speaker 1:
[23:01] I understand too deeply what you're saying, Emma. I have actually worked on that, right, Brit? I'm better now. I used to be very, it's also you expect people, Beyonce talked about this once, I think it was in her special, like she would do the rehearsals and she wouldn't eat, she wouldn't sleep, she wouldn't drink. And then she realized, oh, other people need to sleep and eat. And you expect people to operate how you operate, and if you let it frustrate you because they don't, how can you really be a good leader? Because you can't, right?

Speaker 2:
[23:31] You can't. Also, they don't have the same thing to gain as you. Like you got to get real. Like I'm out here doing what I do. Everybody around me has not got the same circumstance and they don't have the same upside. So also I'm realistic. You know, if I'm paying you 200 grand, I expect 200 grand of you, not a million dollars. Like what are you talking about? You don't have the same to gain as I do. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[23:54] Oh, so the anger thing, it wasn't so much about the anger management. It was, you said that you were still working on forgiveness.

Speaker 2:
[24:03] Oh, yes. I'm not a good forgiver.

Speaker 1:
[24:05] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:05] I'm not because, you know, it's so funny. I did the Hoffman process. You know what that is?

Speaker 1:
[24:10] No, tell me.

Speaker 2:
[24:10] Oh, it's like such an LA thing, but it's an incredible process, like a nine day intensive therapy process where you learn all your patterns and you undo your childhood trauma and all the things.

Speaker 1:
[24:22] This sounds very expensive.

Speaker 2:
[24:24] It's expensive and it's expensive on your, like it's so hard. Like it's such a deep, deep dig. And I just, you know, it was one of those things where you kind of expected to come out forgiving everything that's kind of happened to you. And I got to the nine days and everybody's like, yeah. And I was like, no, but still no. Still no. But that's like, you know, again, about unboundaried, right? It's like, I can understand, you know, if somebody slights me, it's not actually always about me. And I think as far as it comes to like childhood trauma, it's like, I can understand it. It doesn't always mean that you need to forgive.

Speaker 1:
[25:09] Yeah, but the way you talk about that in here is, you're more likely to, instead of forgive somebody, oh my God, do you know Jill Scott? Cause I feel like there's so many similar things. You should know her.

Speaker 2:
[25:21] You should introduce me, I would die.

Speaker 1:
[25:23] Because I'm thinking of our interview with her, because even in that, even how you explained, we have a clip of her going saying, I'm much like more likely to forget you than forgive you. And you talk about that here. And you say, it's not worth your time. It's like, you're patient. So you rather just, I'm not going to forgive you. You just cut you out of the fabric of my life.

Speaker 2:
[25:44] I always think about this idea of like who, like you operate on like these orbits. And I have people that are in my inner orbit, and I have people that are outer and more out. And it's like, you don't have to like, be out of my life, but you just might not be one of my like inner circle people. So I'm operating on a system that says like, you just might have to like be a couple out, couple of steps removed. I don't need to cut people, although I have done that in the past. But to me, it's like, it's just like there's an inner circle, there's an expectation, and I'm not gonna lower my values.

Speaker 1:
[26:19] When do you care enough to work on like that forgiveness or?

Speaker 2:
[26:24] With my husband.

Speaker 1:
[26:25] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[26:25] You know, that's- That's it? Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[26:28] That's it. He's the only one. Everybody else, you know, God bless.

Speaker 2:
[26:37] God bless.

Speaker 1:
[26:38] That's really funny.

Speaker 2:
[26:40] I'm like, sorry.

Speaker 1:
[26:42] Hey, listen. Oh, so you do transcendental meditation too.

Speaker 2:
[26:48] That's one of the biggest tools that I have.

Speaker 1:
[26:50] How long have you been doing this?

Speaker 2:
[26:52] So I think I did a course. That's a great question. I want to say like maybe three years. Okay.

Speaker 1:
[26:59] Regularly, religiously?

Speaker 2:
[27:01] So I don't do, you're supposed to do 20 minutes a day, twice a day. That never ever happens. But I do do it, I would say, I do 20 minutes a day in the morning, three or four times a week, and it is a game changer. Because I always thought of meditation as something that turns the noise down. Really, I actually think it gives you energy, gives you space and clarity. So for me, it was one of those things that I was like, wow, this is an insane tool that I never envisaged I would ever use. But it really, really works as something to create some opportunity to slow things down and call the play. That's what I like to do.

Speaker 1:
[27:37] I've tried this.

Speaker 2:
[27:39] How did you find it?

Speaker 1:
[27:39] It's a specific meditation too, where you have to say the word.

Speaker 2:
[27:42] You have a mantra.

Speaker 1:
[27:43] I was doing it for a little while, like a couple of months, and I didn't notice a difference and I just fell off the regimen. I need to get back on it, and I only got to 10 minutes.

Speaker 2:
[27:50] Okay, but that's good.

Speaker 1:
[27:51] I could never get past 10 minutes.

Speaker 2:
[27:53] When we've got like, you're like this.

Speaker 1:
[27:54] But they say 20 minutes is when you feel the real effects.

Speaker 2:
[27:57] The game changer. It is. The 20 is a game changer. You just got to find your perfect time. Also, I think this again, it's like, yeah, it would be great if you had like 40 minutes every day to do it. I think you just find that 20.

Speaker 1:
[28:10] For someone who might be interested.

Speaker 2:
[28:11] For someone who might be interested.

Speaker 1:
[28:13] You get a word, a mantra.

Speaker 2:
[28:14] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[28:15] You say the word.

Speaker 2:
[28:16] Over and over again, and you meditate on the word.

Speaker 1:
[28:19] You meditate on the word. What does it do for you? How does it, what does it do?

Speaker 2:
[28:25] It literally, imagine it takes the temperature down. There's only two things that do this for me. Because I'm in a constant conversation with myself. I'm thinking about what is happening over there, what's happening next, what we've got tomorrow, what the kids need, what my husband just spoke to me about, what I'm doing in one company. It's like my brain is like this all the time. It literally is almost like everything just comes down to this very quiet place, and you end up having space, and in the space comes something. Literally, it's almost like a little gift. Something will come in and you're like, oh, I did not see that. It becomes clearer, you figure out what you need to do. I come out with so much energy, so much clarity. It's crazy. It really is to me, like you know when people say it's a game changer, it's like no, it will change your game. It will change the way that you move.

Speaker 1:
[29:23] I'm motivated, Emma. I'm going to do it. I'm going back.

Speaker 2:
[29:26] I'm going back in.

Speaker 1:
[29:28] Brittany got to five minutes, right? You got to five. I tried to get her and I was like, really, I'm feeling a difference. I just didn't get, I didn't go to the next level.

Speaker 2:
[29:36] And it's hard. It's hard to learn new things. Like so much of what I talk about in this book is like, it's really difficult to untrain your ways. Especially when you get to a certain age, it's hard to stop telling yourself the stories, but you have to make sure that what's happening in your own head is not bad for you. That your biggest enemy isn't living in your own mind. And so I really try to make the things that I do, like I have a big positive impact on me. And that transcendental is one of those things.

Speaker 1:
[30:10] What is something that you've had to unlearn recently about yourself?

Speaker 2:
[30:14] I think, honestly, that I wasn't going to be capable of writing. I'm a dyslexic, highly, highly dyslexic. And so I fixed my work and my life around almost never writing anything down. Never. I speak every email on my phone. I speak every text in. When in your adult life do you write in that type of way? And so I thought a book would be impossible for me. The other thing is like I wrote the book totally back to front. I started with all the things that were easy to me. Building a business, making the career of your dreams, leadership, money, like bomb, bomb, wrote it like chow, chow, chow, spoke it all into the phone. And then I was like, well, why can I do that stuff? And then I got to the managing emotions. Then I got to the vision part. But it was very, very hard for me to organize my thoughts. And once I had it together, there was this sense of achievement. Like I was like, wow, but that took a lot of doing because I was constantly telling myself, telling my agent, telling everyone around me, I was like, I'll never do a book. I'll never do that. I literally can't do that. That's not for me. Turns out it was.

Speaker 1:
[31:20] I'm so surprised that you would say those kind of things to yourself.

Speaker 2:
[31:24] Because when you're a person of certainty.

Speaker 1:
[31:26] You know better, Emma.

Speaker 2:
[31:27] I should know better, but when you're a person of certainty, you're certain about a lot of things. You're certain about what you can do. You're also certain about what you can't do. And I'm like, that's not for me. I can look at an outfit and be like, that's not for me. My body doesn't work that way. I don't wear that. And I'm like, oh, that's kind of cute.

Speaker 1:
[31:43] I wore that. I wore that shit. We have a voice note. Should we go to voice note now? Hey guys, you ever signed up for a phone plan thinking, wow, what a great price. And then a few months later it's like, surprise, your bill is higher. We hate that. With Boost Mobile, you pay $25 a month forever. That's unlimited talk, text and data starting at just $25 a month. There's no price hikes, there's no contract. And this is forever. Plus Boost Mobile is now a legit nationwide 5G network. They invested billions building 5G towers across the country. So what you need to do is visit boostmobile.com or head to your local Boost store today and get unlimited talk, text and data for $25 a month forever. 5G speeds not available in all areas. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited Plan. All right, we have a segment, it is called, it's a voice note segment. So this is a fan or a listener of the pod, knows you're gonna be here, has a question or a comment. We're gonna play that.

Speaker 3:
[32:45] Hi, my name is Tanisha, I'm 30, and I've been having a hard time getting credit for the ideas that I actually present. How do I get compensated for something like that? Because obviously I have left the organization, I didn't get any compensation or credit for that idea, but it is an idea that has sustained that program moving forward. How do you navigate situations like that to avoid being put in that position?

Speaker 1:
[33:08] I used to suffer from this. I would hold everything in because I'd be afraid somebody was going to rob me.

Speaker 2:
[33:13] Wow. See.

Speaker 1:
[33:14] It's terrible.

Speaker 2:
[33:15] I don't know about that. To me that signals scarcity mindset, but if we talk about what Tanisha is actually saying, she's obviously in an environment where her ideas can be taken, because she's being paid to give ideas, to do whatever job she's doing, and then she's in an environment where her ideas can be taken and used. But she's not working for herself, she's working for an employer. That means she is being paid and compensated for her ideas. You don't get to get the full value. I do honestly think that sometimes employees can overestimate their contribution. If you're in a place where you're being paid to do a job, you have to do that job. That job might be giving some of your ideas. Now, if you are doing something that is beyond the expectation of your remit, and you're going above and beyond, you need to go and have a conversation about your additional contribution. But I think that it's naive to think that you're going to be compensated beyond what you're being paid when you're just giving your idea. Do you know what I mean? There's so much more to business. It's like there's so much more that goes into things. I think sometimes we can have a little bit of a naivety about our contribution. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[34:28] Also because can't 100 people have the same idea, and not everybody can get it across the finish line. So an idea is really just an idea.

Speaker 2:
[34:36] Well, it's just an idea because it takes a lot of people to execute it, a lot of people to create the things. But again, if this is somebody that feels chronically undervalued, and I've been in that same situation, I've been in a place where I thought I was delivering value, and I talk about it in the book, to a company they were making a lot of money, and I didn't feel like I was making enough, the company were like, Emma, we pay you for this job, you are paid, and we make a lot of money out of it. I was like, okay, I'll take my services elsewhere, and that was the beginning of my first business, but they weren't wrong. I wasn't wrong either, but sometimes we have to know that there's nuance in the situation. You just might have to take your gifts and your services elsewhere to realize the full potential of what you're doing.

Speaker 1:
[35:20] But you probably got to be realistic with yourself. Is that like one kind of fluke idea, one kind of limp, you know what I mean? Or do you have many ideas that can expand any business?

Speaker 2:
[35:32] Do you have so many ideas that you could pay yourself what you're being paid currently? If you don't, again, it's never that black and white. In the book, I talk so much about negotiation. Negotiation isn't one side winning or losing. You've got to find something mutually advantageous to go and have a conversation, talk about and understand, but go with specificity. This will be the conversation to me. I'd be like, uncurrent.

Speaker 1:
[35:57] Let's role play a little.

Speaker 2:
[35:58] So you guys are paying me $65,000, and I came up with X idea that netted the business X. You're gonna know those Xs. You're gonna have those numbers. Don't come in with a motion. Don't be sad, don't be angry, don't be silly. It's like come in factually, right? I'm paid this, I delivered this. The contribution was this. Once you've got that, you say, you know what I would really imagine that my contribution in this company is worth 85,000. Oh, we're not ready to pay you that, da, da, da. Okay, what do I need to do to get from here to here? You show me. How can you value me and my ideas? Because if you're unable to do that, then I would need to move on because I can't see how I would be contributing above this. It's a conversation. You don't need to be stupid about it. You can just...

Speaker 1:
[36:44] Advocate for yourself.

Speaker 2:
[36:45] Because let me tell you, half the time, the people that are in charge don't fully understand your contribution. They may not know where the idea comes from. They also might be coming from a place that they see it differently, and that feedback is important for you to have. It's important for you to understand, well, actually, you think we made X, but the costs associated with this, there were five other departments involved. Then you can be like, oh, I got it. Okay, so actually, this is what it was, and this is what I need to do in the future. But still, how do I get to this? And so I think that you can have a really nuanced negotiation. You've got to teach yourself to have those conversations. It also teaches resilience because when and if you get a knockback, that's not walking out with nothing, that's information. That is like what you need to come back and do things in a different way. So I just think, when you have ambition, when you want more, which is exactly what she's saying, is that I want more. I want more credit. I want more money. I want to be recognized. It's like go and ask for it. You can write into Angie. That's cool. But make sure you've had a conversation with your boss and the conversation isn't just happening in your head. You're not just talking to your coworkers that they can't do shit. You need to go to the people that can actually help change and in a nuanced way, express exactly what you need and what your expectations are. You might get it.

Speaker 1:
[38:03] Are you ever, you said in here that if you never hear the word, no, you're not pushing enough.

Speaker 2:
[38:11] Absolutely. It's true.

Speaker 1:
[38:13] I'm never like, sometimes I'm always like, I'm like too fair. So I'm like, okay, they want me to do that for them. I'll do it for this much. This is me talking to you, this I would say.

Speaker 2:
[38:23] Less than your worth? Less than you think you were?

Speaker 1:
[38:26] Probably sometimes.

Speaker 2:
[38:27] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[38:29] What is that? That's terrible. I'm getting better at it. I'm getting better at it.

Speaker 2:
[38:34] What's the reason though? Why are you doing that? Do you want a favor? Are you scared or what is it?

Speaker 1:
[38:38] I'm chronically obsessed with being fair.

Speaker 2:
[38:41] Fair to who?

Speaker 1:
[38:42] Yes. Fair to everybody else. What I think the value might be to them or taking all of their things into consideration instead of putting my thing at the center of this. Start with yourself, starting with myself.

Speaker 2:
[38:57] Read the book, Angie. I did read the book.

Speaker 1:
[39:01] It's so good.

Speaker 2:
[39:02] No, but I understand that.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] Have you never, do you ever say, okay, our business is valued at 100 million, but I'm going to go ask for 150 million, whatever the thing is, whatever the now, I'm just making a number up of something. Do you ever feel like, that was big, I went big and feel almost crazy about it?

Speaker 2:
[39:23] All the time, but that is something that comes, again, with experience and a willingness to walk away from the thing. Because when we make deals, when we decide, I'm going to give it over here. Again, it's a signal that we don't think there's something better on the other side. Or that, what, you're willing to undervalue yourself? For what reason? I always imagine that if somebody is offering me something, the chances are someone else will offer the same thing. So it's not that I don't ever do that, it's just that experiences taught me to know better. If somebody is willing to give you something, someone else will give it to you. In that same way, when I was so young, that my boss wouldn't take me from what I was on 25,000 pounds, I think I asked for 30,000. I was like, someone else will pay me 25, we better be over there because I can manage the trajectory. So I think that, again, these things are chronic because this is just an old thought that lives in your head. You are undervaluing your services, you come from a place because you're sitting here maybe with a scarcity mindset that says if I get X, somebody else gets less, it's like, why? It's not zero sum game, right? It's not how guys would ever think. Doesn't mean because someone gets something over here, that somebody else suffers. I don't think, to the contrary, I don't think it's about overvaluing yourself. I don't think that you should be like, it's a million dollars. You have to educate yourself, you have to know the space, you have to find a place that actually makes sense. But the idea of like undervaluing my services.

Speaker 1:
[41:02] You want to throw up right now?

Speaker 2:
[41:04] I want to die. I want to get angry.

Speaker 1:
[41:08] We're working on your anger, Emma. You've come so far.

Speaker 2:
[41:12] I took a deep breath when you said it.

Speaker 1:
[41:14] I was like, I know. I have gotten way better. But it was me young. I started doing radio, I was 18, 19. I was grateful to be there. I just was happy to have the opportunity. Yeah, but it took me a long time.

Speaker 2:
[41:32] But now you're Angie. We all have that journey. If you stay with the stories, that stuff will just keep you small. I think that you have to, again, it's like replacing the thought. It's like you've got all of this stuff that you've been doing for so long. You have this body of work, you have these ways that you behave, you have the ways that you do business, but nothing changes unless it changes. But you have to do that. When I say start with yourself, I really mean to go back inside yourself and go what is it that actually makes me undervalue myself? What is it that makes me do that smaller number than I know I'm worth? Kindness, that you don't want to be seen as a bitch, you don't want to be seen as someone who's taken advantage.

Speaker 1:
[42:21] Are you asking me the question? Yeah, probably me wanting to be fair, not take advantage of people. I don't know. Yeah, maybe wanting to be-

Speaker 2:
[42:33] It's so interesting because in you being fair and not wanting to take advantage, you're allowing somebody else to be unfair and take advantage.

Speaker 1:
[42:41] I know.

Speaker 2:
[42:41] So what makes them better than you?

Speaker 1:
[42:43] No, we're on the other side of this. We're already on the other side. I know. So interesting, right? That it takes to this big age, that it would take me to this long.

Speaker 2:
[42:53] But I talk through it because I think for anybody listening to this, it's chronic, it's patterned, it's ingrained. It's not stuff that you do knowingly and flippantly, because I reckon anyone who listens to this podcast is that, I don't undervalue myself. I know what I'm worth. I make my money. It's like, but do you? Do you every time? Because sometimes we do things unconsciously. And that's why I wrote this book in the way that I did. Because when you understand what you're doing, when you understand what's running through your thoughts, and the reasons, and the ways you make decisions, then you can push against it. But it's not until it's raised to your attention that you understand some of this stuff. Because some of it is like, it's not even you, it's the culture. Women are undervalued.

Speaker 1:
[43:36] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:37] If somebody else with the same resume and the same set of circumstances, we put them side by side and we see this with AI. You upload the two same resumes, and John gets paid more than Sally. What the fuck? What is happening?

Speaker 1:
[43:51] I can't believe in 2026, that's not true.

Speaker 2:
[43:53] But it's true. I think that there's plenty of things in society that are already entrenched, that already make us small and not progress. You can't be one of those things for yourself.

Speaker 1:
[44:07] Start with yourself. It's so good, Emma. It's so good. Hey guys, support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone. And this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults like you get the W, with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldonyou.edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change, certified to operate by SHIV. Okay, in real life, let's do some in real life questions. In real life, what is one thing you are no longer apologizing for?

Speaker 2:
[44:57] The type of parent I am. Facts.

Speaker 1:
[45:02] Did they get you a little bit though? Did they start making you feel? No.

Speaker 2:
[45:06] No, I expected it. I anticipated it. I'm very used to the differences in the way moms are treated versus dads, the way women are treated versus men.

Speaker 1:
[45:14] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[45:15] I did it purposefully because I want to give permission, permission for other women to just be honest and truthful. I'm like, fuck them.

Speaker 1:
[45:22] Okay, Emma. If God were to text you right now, what would it say? Are you a religious person? Are you a spiritual?

Speaker 2:
[45:34] I'm a very spiritual person.

Speaker 1:
[45:35] Okay.

Speaker 2:
[45:36] I'm not particularly religious. If God was to text me, my favorite thing to be told ever is when people say to you, God bless. Every taxi driver in the whole of England says that to you all the time, but when someone says it to me, I actually feel blessed, like I'm blessed for the day. Just that simple. God bless.

Speaker 1:
[45:53] So God would say to you?

Speaker 2:
[45:56] God would say to me, God bless. God blesses you, for real. You've got the real anointed, it's coming from him in real life. Because I imagine that every day, I feel it's the best thing to be told. It's like, you are blessed. What do you say? In America, they say you're blessed and highly favored. I always loved it when I heard that because I thought, I never heard that before in my life in England. But I feel like that so much, you're blessed and highly favored. It's like a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1:
[46:25] It is pretty great.

Speaker 2:
[46:26] It's amazing. These amazing women in my life would say that to me. Again, I've never ever heard that. That was like black women would say that to me. It's pretty great. I just feel it's incredible.

Speaker 1:
[46:37] Blessed and highly favored.

Speaker 2:
[46:38] Yeah. I love that. Is it beautiful when you break down the words? Now, we say it so flippantly, but it's like blessed and highly favored. That's insane.

Speaker 1:
[46:48] Well, thank you for today. Thank you for this beautiful book and God bless. I'm going to go and spend more time with this book because clearly I need to start with myself too.

Speaker 2:
[47:02] You're doing all right, Bates. Everyone start with yourself, Emma Grede and we'll let you so, so, so much.

Speaker 1:
[47:13] Hey, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like, comment and check out all of the other episodes we have on Angie Martinez IRL podcast.