transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Album 12, baby.

Speaker 2:
[00:02] Can you believe it?

Speaker 3:
[00:04] No.

Speaker 1:
[00:05] Isn't it amazing?

Speaker 4:
[00:07] It's pretty wild. Honestly, I wake up in the morning, and I think, I can't believe, not only that we're still doing this, but honestly, like, it's still so, it feels so good. We rehearse every day. And just to be in the room with the guys, and rehearsing new songs or writing new songs, it's like, it still feels so good.

Speaker 1:
[00:35] Probably more precious than ever in a way. And I can hear that in the playing on this, even on that song there, hearing Nate just up and down the scale, like just restless and engaged and hungry to add value, you know?

Speaker 4:
[00:46] You know, it's funny, we had this conversation the other day while we were rehearsing that song. And we were trying to get it as tight as we can. And then the second half of that song that you just heard, where it starts to build up.

Speaker 1:
[01:01] According to the echo for the people that are watching this on a podcast level, yes.

Speaker 4:
[01:05] And so we were, everybody was really focused on doing what we did on the record. So I was doing this part and it builds this way, and Chris is up here on this thing doing this. Nate's got this baseline. And we're working on it and it's building, building, building. And I'm like, okay, it needs to be like, it needs to feel bigger. It needs to feel more. It needs to take off. It needs to take off. It needs to be less here and more here, less in the head, more in the heart. And I said something, I was like, I said, you know, it feels like we're playing, it's sort of tentative. You know, we're not just going there. You know, so forget about that, like tentative, what did we do on the record kind of thing. Just go into this place of total reckless confidence, where like, where it's just, you know, where it's Sonic Youth or where it's Nation of Ulysses or whatever it is. It's like, let's get there. That's what's going to make it. And we did one more run through the song and I looked at Nate and he wasn't even, I don't know if he was playing in time, but he was just going, like on his bass. It was like a washboard. And it made this like motorhead rumble. And I was like, okay, we finally got it. That's how we should do it.

Speaker 1:
[02:22] He got the assignment. He understood the assignment.

Speaker 4:
[02:24] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[02:24] He understood the assignment.

Speaker 4:
[02:25] He got there. And so it's that, it's those moments where, we're getting ready to go back out and do some shows and Pat had broken his leg.

Speaker 1:
[02:36] How is he by the way? He's great.

Speaker 4:
[02:38] And the other day, we've been rehearsing all this new stuff that Pat said, he says, Hey, we need to start, we need to rehearse some of the older stuff. Like I haven't played the old songs since last year, because he's been out because of his broken leg. So we started rehearsing and he shows up at the studio. I think it was yesterday and he goes, I am so excited to play. He was, and I don't know if I've ever heard him that excited. He was like, I am so, and it just, it's contagious.

Speaker 1:
[03:15] It is.

Speaker 4:
[03:15] And then we were like, yeah, we are too. It was amazing.

Speaker 1:
[03:18] How do you even choose? I know you're doing stadiums and you've been known to do very long shows and while the heart is beating strong and the songs want to be played, you're gonna keep going all night. But still, we're on 12 albums right here. And any Foo Fighters fan who's buying a ticket, myself included, my family, my friends, who've been to so many Foo Fighters shows, who are gonna come to these shows, we've all got our favorites. Everyone's got their favorites. So how are you, I know you're the boss, but how are you figuring out how to play everything, or the ones, and how do you even approach that this time for take cover?

Speaker 4:
[03:50] With this new record and this new stuff, every single song feels great. I think it's because the way the songs were written, the way it was recorded, everything is very, it's kind of simple and direct, and it has more to do with energy than any sort of proficiency.

Speaker 2:
[04:10] It's like the vibes.

Speaker 1:
[04:11] Definitely direct. I don't know how simple Spetshine is when I hear it. I mean, it's got some pretty written times.

Speaker 4:
[04:17] It doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:
[04:18] It's just like.

Speaker 4:
[04:20] And so, all of these new songs feel really great. And so that's 10 new songs that we're gonna have to add to an already 26 song set list. And for years, one of my favorite things about playing shows is the connection with the audience. And it's most important to me, the connection with the audience. And that connection happens in moments where everyone joins together in a chorus. So if it's Best of You, or it's Everlong, or it's times like these, or it's Learn to Fly, or it's Pretender, or it's All My Life, or it's blah, blah, blah. Those are the moments that like, that's the gluten, dude. That's the thing that like really pulls everything together. So to me, you know, I wouldn't want to go and lose that connection by veering off into long periods of obscurity. I'm like, I'm all about Queen at Live Aid. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3:
[05:23] I can't disagree with your police work there, Lou.

Speaker 1:
[05:26] I mean, I only say this because I've spent countless times at shows. And when you do pull out a Hey, Johnny Park, or you do pull out something that is like, oh shit, you must see the faces of the people who are like, fuck yeah, like I cannot wait for Breakout, but I'm so glad you played that.

Speaker 4:
[05:45] So, okay, so we have sort of these three tiers. It's kind of like a lasagna. We have these three tiers where it's like, I want to play every new song we have because it feels so good and I'm so energized.

Speaker 1:
[05:56] That's the pasta.

Speaker 4:
[05:57] It feels great. Well, that's kind of, yeah. I think that actually, you know what, that might be the cheese on top.

Speaker 1:
[06:04] I don't know, man. I sort of feel like maybe Learn to Fly might be the cheese on top.

Speaker 2:
[06:08] And then you've got the pie. Well, look, you're the chef.

Speaker 4:
[06:09] Here's the way I look at it. Here's the way I look at it. So, all right, say you're doing a three tier, right? You know, the first thing you do is you want to put some sauce on the bottom. And that's kind of like, if you're gonna put the sauce on the bottom so you don't burn that first layer of pasta, let's maybe put, you know, put an all my life in there just to make sure it's a nice little foundation of the thing. And then you hit it with a layer of pasta, all right? That layer of pasta, that's gonna be something with some substance, you know? I would say from the new album, that might be caught in the echo. It might be of all people. It might be... And then, right, so then you start like seasoning and you get sauce, a little more sauce, a little more cheese, then you get to your second level, right? And so at this point, you're like in the middle of the lasagna and that takes the longest to sort of like cook, right? That could be, maybe that's an A320. Maybe that's a Hey Johnny part. Maybe that's a Stacked Actress. Maybe that's a La Di Da.

Speaker 1:
[07:13] What's gonna set this lasagna apart?

Speaker 4:
[07:16] From our past lasagnas?

Speaker 1:
[07:17] From the lasagnas that sit on the shelf People queue up to eat this lasagna. This is a special lasagna.

Speaker 4:
[07:24] It's filling. It's a whole meal.

Speaker 2:
[07:27] It's very filling.

Speaker 4:
[07:27] You don't need a side. You don't need like brimi, secondi. Like you just, like this one chunk of lasagna.

Speaker 2:
[07:34] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[07:35] Then you can get full.

Speaker 1:
[07:36] Do you know what's great about a Foo Fighters lasagna as well? Just like all great lasagnas, they are still great three days later.

Speaker 4:
[07:42] Let me tell you, nothing like leftover lasagna.

Speaker 2:
[07:45] Yeah, like a leftover lasagna.

Speaker 4:
[07:46] Is that what we're talking about right now? We're left over lasagna at this point. No, but so it's a trip. So I'm looking at these 26 songs that we played at the last show we did. And now we have 10 more songs. It's like, I got to be honest, man, the shows are going to be, they're going to be big long shows.

Speaker 1:
[08:01] And you got to play Asking for a Friend. You have to play that one.

Speaker 4:
[08:03] Asking for a Friend, which we haven't done much. We've only done, I think, once or twice.

Speaker 1:
[08:07] That shit is a 747 taken off at full speed. That song to me is when I got smacked by that at the end of the album, the first listen, I was floored by that fucking song. Like the changes, the musicality, the passion you're throwing into it, the words, everything coming together. I can imagine when you were making the album, that song presented itself and you were very thrilled to make its acquaintance.

Speaker 4:
[08:28] Well, you know, it's funny. So last year, we released a song called Today's Song. And that was just a stand-alone thing that we recorded and put it out. You know, we still work in a lot of old school systems and ways, methods. It's like, wait, you could just release one song, put it out? It shouldn't be a part of a whole record. Everyone's like, no, no, no, just put it out. So we put it out.

Speaker 1:
[08:55] But you also put it out with a pretty important message about the history of the band. It felt like it had real purpose, that song.

Speaker 4:
[09:01] Yeah, it did. To me, it was a continuation of this thing that we've built over the last 30 years.

Speaker 1:
[09:10] It felt like a love letter to the fans in a way of saying, thank you, but we're here and we're just getting fucking started again on a new one. That's what it felt like.

Speaker 4:
[09:17] Yeah, it did. And also, just for the band to still be so connected and in our lives, not just musically. But then, so then a little while later, I'd been recording and demoing a bunch of stuff in my house. And I think it was like the day that Alon joined, I said, hey, come on over, come to the house. Let's record something. And he came over and we did the drums to that, you know, in an hour or something like that. And that was kind of the beginning. So that song, that song's different than the other songs on the record in its composition. And there's like multiple time signatures and there's bigger moments, faster moments, quiet moments, louder moments. And then we started doing these club gigs, kind of, you know, to prepare for tours that were coming up, but also to like, to really get connected with Alon, our drummer. And so, and the energy of those gigs, those were those gigs where we were pulling out like Winnebago, like a song, the first song we ever released.

Speaker 2:
[10:30] I know, I saw footage and I was so bummed. I was like, I haven't seen that live, and I was supposed to be at that show, and I couldn't make it.

Speaker 3:
[10:34] And so I was like, you're a dick, Zane.

Speaker 4:
[10:36] So we started pulling out like all of these, because we knew that the people who would be there would really like get their teeth in it and understand. So it was the energy of those shows that really inspired this record. It was like, oh, wow, man. The feeling of a small space, of three and a half minute long song where you're just banging, that really inspired the energy of this. And yeah, that's what we love to do. As much as we love some of those bigger, more orchestrated compositions that we've had over the years, it's like right now, that's what we want to do. And it feels so good.

Speaker 1:
[11:18] You could pick up a guitar at this point in your life, for sure you do, and write a song, because you feel like doing it. It's something you want to say. You may not even be thinking about recording it at that point. It's just a part of who you are. It's a part of your psychology, a part of your spirit. It's an extension of your life, and living your life. But the question is like, as someone who has to pick 10 songs to go on a new Foo Fighters album, on album number 12, how do you know the bar is high enough? How do you know when it's time to commit a song to tape and have the courage to release it? That it's time, that that's going to be a song that you're going to stand by and play.

Speaker 4:
[11:53] Well, first of all, you set the bar yourself. So you don't let anybody else set the bar. So in listening to all of these demos that we had done, there was this batch, this one clump, this group of songs that just sort of randomly popped up together on a playlist. It was like 10 or 11, 12 songs. And they just had this energy that was almost like an urgency. Some of them didn't have lyrics to them. Some of them were just like a sound. And for whatever reason, it's like that, in our little world, in our little band, that's what felt necessary at the time. And I think that's the most important thing. It's like, yeah, I mean, I want to record them well. I want them to be tight and written in a way that makes sense, you know? But beyond that, it's like the expectation is really within the room, more so than outside of the room.

Speaker 1:
[12:54] But how do you get outside of yourself to get there? Because this, okay, let's go back to day one. We've known each other from the very beginning.

Speaker 4:
[13:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:02] You're just making it up, man. You just, I don't know what the Foo Fighters sounds like. You don't know what the Foo Fighters sounds like at that point. You're figuring it out. Now you have this beautiful back catalog of incredible songs. You just rattled off 26 songs which are must-watches and must-listen to as at a gig. So how do you get beyond that to a place where it's, where you realize that it's new? Because it's got to feel new to let it go, right? You can't go over old ground. You just can't.

Speaker 4:
[13:26] No. I mean, you know, I have to go scream these things every night. So I have to get up on stage and really like feel it as it's coming out of my chest, you know? And so it's those songs. There are some songs that we have that we just never play because I just don't feel it, you know?

Speaker 1:
[13:43] I didn't even want to ask you. I wouldn't have want you to ask.

Speaker 4:
[13:45] There's a bunch. I mean, there's a lot. We have 180 songs or whatever. We've got a lot of songs. And so there's some that were really fun to record. And they were these like these nice compositions. But man, it's like, when I sing Best of You, I still feel it. When I sing All My Life, it's like, I still feel it. When I sing a song like Of All People or Spitshine or Cotton the Echo, it's like, I really feel it. And that's what I want to do when we jump up on stage and play. And so while at the same time, it's like, you know, you're talking about just picking up a guitar and playing for the hell of it. Last night, I don't sleep. So I wake up at like two o'clock in the morning. Did you hear Billy Strings broke his leg? Did you hear about this? It's not funny. Breaking your leg really sucks.

Speaker 1:
[14:35] No, but still.

Speaker 4:
[14:37] But I got the call yesterday. It was like, hey, did you hear about Billy Strings? Who I love.

Speaker 1:
[14:42] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[14:44] He's total badass. He broke his leg. You might want to give him the throne that you had on tour. And so a friend of mine did a documentary on him. And I'm like, hey, tell Billy that, you know, he can have the throne.

Speaker 1:
[14:59] Didn't you take the throne from Axel?

Speaker 4:
[15:01] No, I gave it to Axel.

Speaker 1:
[15:03] Oh, you gave it to Axel. That's why it was your throne.

Speaker 2:
[15:05] I was trying to figure out who got the throne.

Speaker 4:
[15:06] It's kind of made the rounds. A couple of different people have used it, but it's kind of become that thing that, you know, how would you, you broke your leg. You won't borrow the throne. But so anyway, so I got in touch with them and said like, hey man, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel. I know you feel like shit now, but you know, you're gonna come out the other end with some new hardware and you'll be good or whatever. And then in the middle of the night, he has this song called Guild the Lily, which is such a beautiful song. It's so beautiful. It just, it reminds me of being a child in Virginia. It just has this comfortable, beautiful melody. It's just so, it's so great. I sat up for about two and a half or three hours last night, learning all the guitar parts to that song. For no reason. Just cause I love this song so much. And I'm just sitting there in the dark. First I'm like trying to figure it out by ear. Then I'm like, okay, I'm watching my fingers. And then I turn out the lights. So I'm not watching my fingers. I'm just lying there in bed at four o'clock in the morning playing this thing. And it's like, that's the, that's the thing. That's the thing that keeps it going for this long. That's the thing that since you first saw us 30 years ago, to where we're at today. It's like, that's the feeling, the feeling of being in love with the instrument that's in the corner of the room, and just lying in bed at four o'clock in the morning, and just playing for no other reason than to hear something that you love.

Speaker 1:
[16:35] I love that story so much because it really draws a strong distinct connection between the naive kid who was just going out, wondering if there was even a road for you to go on after what had happened, and the guy who now knows has this road laid out, beautifully paved with more miles to run. And I thought about that and I watched The Best Summer, I watched Hamra's documentary, I loved it. I said to her and I was watching it, people don't know it's a beautiful documentary captured during one amazing festival run in Australia and parts of Asia, which had the greatest lineup of all time in the 90s. Foo Fighters are on there, Bill, you're on in the evening time. I was at the show in Melbourne, I'll never forget it. And what I loved about watching that documentary is in the moments when you're being interviewed. First of all, it's obviously the first time you've been interviewed post Kurt's death. It's clear that you're only comfortable really talking to Tamra at that moment in time, because we weren't getting anywhere near you. Even at the early stages of my journalistic career, no one was getting anywhere near you. And you could see that you were just figuring it out in real time like, shit, I'm with my friends, I'm safe, people love this shit. I might actually get away with this. I might actually be able to do this. Is that fair to say? That's what struck me. I was watching on camera.

Speaker 4:
[17:55] You nailed it. Yeah. I mean, at the time, it's so, okay, so my daughter, Violet, she's putting out a record and she's in the early stages of this thing.

Speaker 1:
[18:08] We know, man. We've played all her songs.

Speaker 4:
[18:09] It's really cool.

Speaker 1:
[18:10] I was the one calling a manager going, band camp's all cool and everything, but can I play on the radio now?

Speaker 4:
[18:15] But, you know, I'm watching Violet enter into this, this new world, this new life, this new phase, whatever it is. First of all, she has it here too. She's had it since she was a kid. You just know.

Speaker 1:
[18:30] That's why it's working, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[18:31] So, but watching her do all of these things that I remember like doing in store at Fingerprints. I remember, you know, running from interview to video and all of these things. And it's made me think about then a lot more. It's like watching her kind of go through this thing. I'm revisiting a lot of how I felt. And she and I talk about it in the moments of feeling overwhelmed or feeling tired or feeling busy, things like that. And I look back at that time and we were we were fucking flying by the seat of our pants. Like we there was no there was no attention or focus on any sort of musical proficiency. There was no it was just a vibe. And it was it was just because we all it's like we all needed to be there. You know, Will and Nate coming out of Sunny Day Real Estate. Yeah. Great rhythm section. Their band fell apart. And it was like me and Pat having been through everything we'd been together with Nirvana. It's like we all kind of needed to be there. And and there there have been moments in our timeline where it's like, man, not only do we need each other, but we need this band. We need this music. You know, like the third, our third record, Nothing Left to Lose. At that time, it was like 1998 or 99 or something. We were let go of our contract out of this key man clause thing and whatever. And so we were free to do whatever we wanted to do. So what did we do? We decided to build a studio in my basement in Virginia and just go record at our own pace. And it was literally like, it was me and Taylor and Nate and our producer Adam. And we'd wake up in the morning and have coffee and a bagel. And then we'd shoot hoops for a little while. And then we'd go and record some stuff. And then we'd hit the chili place and eat some chili. And then we'd have beers and watch Tenacious D on TV. And then we'd go to sleep. That was like the typical day in the studio. And the album, because it was made that way, had that feeling. And it's like that's what we needed to do at the time. We didn't need to like jump into the game. We needed to like go home and make a record.

Speaker 1:
[20:53] But this is after Color in the Shape, which is I feel where The Innocence was compromised a little bit by this kind of like, okay, we're not on the... This is not play time just anymore. Like that was to me as a fan when tough decisions had to get made.

Speaker 4:
[21:06] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:07] You know, that was where, you know, Foo Fighters showing up at an MTV Awards playing ever long, wasn't like a fucking weird, who led them in moment. Do you know what I mean? I felt like, shit, there was a moment of innocence that we all felt on the first album.

Speaker 4:
[21:23] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:24] Going and watching you play.

Speaker 4:
[21:25] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:26] Watching 50,000 people show up at three in the afternoon. Only for you, with your fucking chewing gum.

Speaker 3:
[21:31] All right, let's fucking do it.

Speaker 1:
[21:32] Forty minutes later.

Speaker 4:
[21:33] Bye.

Speaker 2:
[21:34] See you. Have a good time coming up next as Jawbreaker. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:37] You know, it was like, it was beautiful and innocent. And I felt like maybe, I guess the question here, there has to be one. Did that evaporate even a little too fast for you? Do you wish it had just been a little bit more free for a little longer than when it was like, damn, Gil Norton, we have to let go, you know, all these things?

Speaker 4:
[21:58] Well, no, you know, that was intentional, actually. It was like, you know, that first Foo Fighters record wasn't a bad record. It was just a demo thing that I'd done by myself. And it was, you know, it was loose and it was raw. And it was like, cool. The challenge was, rather than do the thing that a lot of bands would do where they'd make their first record and it was really produced. And then they'd say like, no, no, no, fuck that. We're gonna make the raw record. It was like, we did the opposite of that. It was like, we did the raw record. We're like, no, no, no, fuck that. Let's make our fucking Boston record. Let's make our fucking like hyper produced rock hit record. That was the intention.

Speaker 1:
[22:32] Congratulations achieved.

Speaker 4:
[22:33] Thank you. But that was it. It was like, man, I don't wanna make a punk rock record right now. I've never done this. Like I've never gone in and made like a foreigner record or gone like a classic rock record. And we still like lived with our sort of punk rock past and our cool like, hey, we're just a bunch of guys in a van, so we eat those. But then that was intentional to make a record like that. Just as like, every record is a response to the one that's come before. So we go through the hyper crazy color in the shape, Gil Norton produced album, and then we hit the road and it's like, we hit it so fucking hard and we were kind of sort of testing the limits of this next step, this next level. It wasn't entirely up to us either. It's like, if you like the songs, like then, you know, I'll put on a nicer shirt and we'll play it again, the kind of thing. And then the next album was that fucking nothing left to lose record where we're like, wait a minute, we should be fucking doing this in my basement, what are we doing? And then the next one we started in the basement and then we built a studio. And that's when things sort of evolved from there. And yeah, what's the question?

Speaker 1:
[23:48] That's beautiful.

Speaker 4:
[23:48] Thanks man.

Speaker 1:
[23:49] Doesn't matter, the answer is fucking perfect. I've never asked you this. Did it ever, real talk, did it ever cross your mind or did you ever have conversations with Chris about this, given that you and Pat continued in some capacity and whilst you remained friends with him, he did not come along the musical journey with you?

Speaker 4:
[24:09] You know, we never had like a deeper, longer conversation about it. But after Nirvana ended, I think that we all wound up in places that felt, I don't want to say comfortable, but safe. And so, so when I went into the studio and recorded that stuff by myself, I felt safe there, you know? And I can't speak for Chris, but I think at that time it was like, we were just trying to get our feet back on the ground. For me, that's something that I thought, okay, well, music is the thing that's going to rescue me. And for Chris, I think that some, maybe some sort of stability or security in maybe backing off a little bit, that might have been what he felt he needed to do. But we didn't really ever have that deeper, longer conversation. And Pat, the funniest thing is like, I didn't think Pat would be our guitar player. I just sent him a tape. I sent him one of the early cassettes. And he was like, oh my God, it's so poppy. And I'm like, is it? Because, okay, is that a good thing? And to Pat, that is a great thing. And I was like, and I had already started jamming with Nathan William. And I was like, if you want to play guitar. I didn't expect that he would, you know. And then he decided that he would jam with us. It was great.

Speaker 1:
[25:48] Oh, it was great. Oh, my God. There's very few things that you will get more joy out of than watching phase one Pat Smear Foo Fighters 90s energy on stage in his fucking bag like nobody else. I mean, unbelievable.

Speaker 4:
[26:02] I mean, if you look at like, like in the movie that you were just referring to.

Speaker 1:
[26:06] Unmatched.

Speaker 4:
[26:08] You know, I'm wearing like, you know, a Jawbreaker T-shirt or something in shorts and like high tops. And yeah, and Pat will be wearing like a full flight attendant outfit, female flight attendant outfit.

Speaker 2:
[26:24] And then it's like gold Lame pants and a fucking frilly shirt just for the fuck of it. Like an amazing.

Speaker 4:
[26:30] So it was really, it was, it was a beautiful, it was a beautiful combination of personality.

Speaker 2:
[26:36] Still is, still is.

Speaker 1:
[26:37] We're going to get back to this new record in a second, but to close the loop on this beautiful little reflection. It's been really joyous watching you and you guys come back on stage and over the course of these various reasons to celebrate anniversaries and whatnot, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Inductions, all these really great things that I really want to honestly say as your friend, but as a fan as well, thank you for leaning into them. It's very easy for people to accept the honor, but not go in. You guys went in and you really, you really paid respect to that part of your life. And it felt like it gave you some closure as well, which I think is really beautiful.

Speaker 4:
[27:11] You know, it's such a weird thing to feel like there are songs, to feel afraid to play songs, you know? And for a long time, it's like, I was even afraid just to sit down at a drum set and play the opening riff to Smells Like Teen Spirit. And so it just seemed sort of verboten, you know? And so the few times that Chris and Pat and I have gotten together to do it, it's a trip. I mean, it's like a time warp. It's like a time capsule. And the noise that the three of us make together, it's like that you don't really get that noise anywhere else.

Speaker 1:
[27:55] You don't.

Speaker 4:
[27:56] And so when you're in the room and it happens, the way that Chris strums his bass lines, the bass that he uses, the equipment he uses, his sense of feel and time, it's like all of those things, combined with Pat, like with that crazy germs, Pat Smear guitar thing, and then some loud ass drums, it's like when it happens, you're just like, oh fuck, I remember this. Shit, I haven't heard this in 35 years. Oh my God. And it's a really beautiful sound and a beautiful feeling.

Speaker 1:
[28:32] Was Kurt deep down through all of the fight, was he built for those things? Would he have seen a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction or an anniversary or something that you think he would have got to a place where he'd have been like, yeah man, fuck it, lean in.

Speaker 4:
[28:42] That is a really good question. I mean, I think that, I always go back to when we flew to New York to talk to record companies, to sign a deal before Nevermind came out. Then we sat down in this high-rise major label office with this like super powerful executive who was sitting behind a giant oak desk and listening to the song on stun volume. And then me and Chris and Kurt on the other side of the desk in these low chairs, like it looked like we were punished at school or something. And the song ends and he says, okay, what do you guys want? And Kurt says, we want to be the biggest band in the world. And I was like, I think we all laughed. Okay. I don't know if he was kidding. I still to this day, I think about it. I'm like, considering where we were from in our whole musical timeline existence. It's like, well, first of all, that's impossible because it was 1990 and all these pop stars were on top of the charts. It's funny or maybe it's irony or I don't know, whatever. But there was part of me that was like, there's songs that he wrote. I think he wrote them to be heard. It got more complicated after so many people join the party. But I think that maybe most songwriters, when they write songs, it's like you want them to be heard or you want them to be felt or you want, not that it's necessarily validation, but you want someone to feel what you feel. Just as a listener wants to feel what the artist feels, it's like maybe it's empathy. It's just this feeling of like, I want everyone to feel this thing that I feel. I hope someone else, maybe one other person in the world will feel the way I feel or understand the way I feel. So I don't know what the exact intention was, but I do know that Kurt was one of the greatest songwriters of all time.

Speaker 1:
[31:13] Hands down.

Speaker 4:
[31:13] And it was inevitable. Like what happened, those songs, it was inevitable that his songs would be recognized as some of the greatest songs of all time.

Speaker 1:
[31:26] Could you hear him sing from the drum kit, even with the speakers going the other way?

Speaker 4:
[31:30] It's sometimes in rehearsals. Yeah. I mean, the early rehearsals, he, we had one monitor, I think that just had his vocal in it, and I could hear him fucking screaming. That's a crazy thing too about his voice. It's like his, his scream was like chainsaw. His pitch was so spot on. And his range was crazy. It's one of the craziest things when we do these nirvana things with someone else singing. Oh my God, it's hard to find someone that can do what he did.

Speaker 1:
[31:59] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[31:59] Cause his range, it's almost the same thing with Chris Cornell.

Speaker 1:
[32:02] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[32:02] Those singers, it's like they're up here, but they're also down here and they find that pitch. And, but within that, there's like the heart and the soul.

Speaker 1:
[32:10] Lane, lane.

Speaker 4:
[32:11] And lane. Oh my God, dude. Here's the best thing about having, of driving around with Violet or Harper in a car. I have this newfound love of Alice in Chains.

Speaker 1:
[32:27] Same.

Speaker 4:
[32:28] Like it's back.

Speaker 1:
[32:29] I know.

Speaker 4:
[32:30] I'm like, they're like my favorite band now. They should have been 35 years ago, but now I'm like, wait, where was I on that one? That's kind of, but anyway, but yes. I mean, it's those magical people in those magical moments that just become a part of your, we actually talked about this, about how every song you hear becomes, like a strand in your DNA. Like those lyrics and those songs become a part of you.

Speaker 1:
[32:58] It's a chemical, it actually alters your chemistry. And this is why music is magic, because I can, so I have playlists, I have Nelson Chain's playlist, I have multiple Nirvana playlists, I have multiple Foo Fighters playlists, I have fucking Dave and his Feelings playlists, I have deep cuts playlists, just the stuff you probably won't play at the stadium shows, maybe one or two.

Speaker 4:
[33:20] Maybe.

Speaker 1:
[33:22] And you put it on depending on what mood you're in, and it just adjusts the way you move for the rest of the day. And everybody you come into contact with is affected by that particular mood, and it has a ripple effect every second of every day. That music thing, man, it is magic.

Speaker 4:
[33:36] It is. There's a huge connectivity in the energy of music, just as there is in the connectivity and the energy of everything. It goes back to that Deal DeGrasse Tyson quote, the most astounding fact is that the atoms that comprise life on earth were scattered around the universe from stars imploding and spreading their enriched guts and the carbon and the nitrogen and oxygen. And so when you look up at the night sky, you shouldn't feel far away. You should feel connected to those stars because like stardust, you know, that's all we are. We're comprised of the same atoms that are scattered throughout the universe. And I think the same thing can be said of music. Every single note you've ever heard is somewhere inside of you for your entire life. You know, it's fucking awesome.

Speaker 1:
[34:34] It's fucking awesome. I watched my mom, who's suffering from significant about dementia now. She's in the final stages, I feel. And it's certainly like, you know, the communication is limited to non-existent from a conventional point of view. The music.

Speaker 4:
[34:49] Oh yeah. 100%.

Speaker 1:
[34:50] In the room.

Speaker 4:
[34:52] My mother, I don't know, a few years, year before she passed, she was in the hospital and she had had a stroke. And she was stable, but a bit unresponsive and slow. And you know, we stayed with her entire recovery, but I thought about all of those videos that you'd seen on YouTube of people who were in desperate condition and someone plays them a song. And so I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna play her some Manhattan Transfer, which was like her favorite, like the boy from New York City. And I remember playing that, like check it out, mom, it's Manhattan Transfer. And it worked. I hope someone does that to me, man.

Speaker 1:
[35:48] It works, man. Oh, I'm already making my playlist.

Speaker 4:
[35:51] Hey dad, look, it's Black Flag or whatever.

Speaker 1:
[35:54] Now listen, now listen, at some point in the next five years being 91, I'm gonna lose my marbles. And when I do press play on that, really?

Speaker 4:
[36:00] That's a playlist you need to make right there.

Speaker 2:
[36:02] Really? You wanna start with 46 and two by tool? I do press play on that and off we go.

Speaker 4:
[36:08] Guys, he's smiling, he's smiling.

Speaker 2:
[36:10] He's smiling. He's so happy when he hears Adam, so good.

Speaker 1:
[36:21] You know, those moments that you share with the family, the order of things, right? And as sad as it is to see the people that love you unconditionally leave you, it is the order of things in a way, it's something to be grateful for in a strange way.

Speaker 4:
[36:31] Thousand percent.

Speaker 1:
[36:32] And it really brings home the fact that you get to, and we talked about this before with Violet, get to really see your life through the family lens through your music. I think about this album being recorded at home, I think about the last time I saw any footage of you recording your album at home, that you were throwing the kids in the pool.

Speaker 4:
[36:49] Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:
[36:51] And now they're touring and building lives from themselves and doing what they want to do. And I wonder how that kind of resonated with you as you were back in your studio making this record in that space, in that spot above the garage or whatever.

Speaker 4:
[37:02] Well, you know, I think that, I think the feeling of home, the idea of home, was it a Tom Wait song, A House is Not a Home? Yeah. It's like...

Speaker 1:
[37:18] You've written a song called Home. It's a great song.

Speaker 4:
[37:20] That is, I can't even play. That's one I can't play.

Speaker 1:
[37:23] I love that song.

Speaker 4:
[37:24] It's too emotional.

Speaker 1:
[37:25] I love that song.

Speaker 4:
[37:25] Listen, Pat's trying to get me to do it on the next trip.

Speaker 1:
[37:27] I really would love you to because I think it's one of those ones that I've never heard live and it's a real, it's a keeper man.

Speaker 4:
[37:33] Yeah. But no, it's like, as we've talked about, I'm sure over the years, that the environment in which you make an album or create anything determines the outcome of what you're doing. That's why people talk about Bowie's Berlin years. People talk about Muscle Shoals. People talk about it's an environment and an atmosphere, and inevitably that will influence the outcome. And so, where do you feel most comfortable? Where do you wear your sweatpants? Where do you eat Cheetos on the couch? Things like that. It's like, where is your home? And a house is not a home. It's that feeling of the things that, your surroundings that make you feel at home. And so for me, yeah dude, it's above my garage. And it's with my guys.

Speaker 1:
[38:29] Yeah. How do you sort of create a place where there's focus and not distraction? Because I love being in my sweatpants and eating Cheetos.

Speaker 2:
[38:40] And I love making music in that environment too. But sometimes-

Speaker 4:
[38:43] Don't cry.

Speaker 2:
[38:44] I have to really drag myself in the room to do that because I just want to stay with the Cheetos. In a way it requires a different kind of discipline, doesn't it?

Speaker 4:
[38:51] To me, I love it all. I really do. I love it all. I'm the first one up. I'm up before the sun, and it's muffins and pancakes and earth, wind and fire.

Speaker 1:
[39:04] You really don't sleep, do you?

Speaker 4:
[39:05] Not enough.

Speaker 1:
[39:06] Never have.

Speaker 4:
[39:08] Well, I actually had this conversation with my mother once. I'm like, I've always been a horrible sleeper. And she goes, that's not true. For me, ages of about 13 to 18, you could sleep like 12 hours a day. And that's when I was a total stoner. Yeah, you were basically so baked. That's when I was smoking so much fucking weed, I couldn't stay awake. And so, of course, I told her that in my 30s. Listen, I love dreaming. I have crazy ass dreams every night. And I wake up and I remember every single-

Speaker 1:
[39:36] Lucid dream, seriously. Lucid dreaming.

Speaker 4:
[39:38] I will be in a dream. And last night, I slept from 11 to two. I spent from two to six figuring out that Billy String song. I went back to sleep from six to 7.30. And in that dream, I was on this elaborate highway system, trying to get off the highway and get back downtown DC. And to try to get back to meeting everybody in Washington, DC.

Speaker 1:
[40:10] Wow, that's a crazy dream.

Speaker 4:
[40:13] Dude, every night, I have dreams about Taylor all the time. There are times where it's really interpersonal. There are other times where he's just in the peripheral, like he hasn't left. There are times I dream about my mother, once a week, at least, sometimes twice a week.

Speaker 1:
[40:28] I was gonna ask you about that, because you've had real people real close to you clearly lean into your best relationships in a very real way. I mean, your relationship with your best friend Jimmy is well documented in your book, and otherwise, you know, and he's no longer with us. Taylor's no longer your mother, great people, Kurt, you know. And I wondered, like, what that tells you about the spiritual side of it all, away from this human tactility, these surfaces that we exist within, what it tells you about life and beyond.

Speaker 4:
[41:02] Yes, I, we could talk about that for hours and hours. I, when my mother passed away, I had this whole new revelation or feeling about, like, what happens next. And I think most people have some fear of the unknown of what happens afterwards. But when that energy is still here, like, it's still here. Her energy is still here, I believe. I believe Taylor's energy is still here, whether it's in dreams, whether it's, you know, ghosty things that happen every once in a while, where, oh my God, could you imagine, like, some ghosty shit happening in your house? You'd be like, oh my God, there's a ghost in your house. But then when you think, hey, when you say, like, mama, is that you? Then it's okay.

Speaker 1:
[42:03] I've had that.

Speaker 4:
[42:04] I think if you're online, meaning, like, if you allow yourself to be attuned to that kind of stuff, then there's no coincidence.

Speaker 1:
[42:12] I agree.

Speaker 4:
[42:13] You know, it's like, and if you accept it as something bigger than coincidence, there you go. And so with dreams and things, it's like, man, I value my dream life so much. Like, I had this one dream about, this is years ago. I remember them all. I had this dream where I was underwater at night and I was looking up at this boat on the surface that had a white light shining down into the water. And there was a ladder coming down into the water. And I saw this free diver, like struggling to get up to the ladder, but clearly beginning to drown. And so coming up to this ladder in this white light, and you could see that they were struggling, and then they just start floating up towards the light. And then my next view was these people on a boat trying to resuscitate this person. But then in that moment, I had this whole other feeling that like, oh my God, this person is having an afterlife experience. And all of a sudden I'm flooded with this whole thing where it's like, oh my God, this person doesn't believe in God. Oh my God, this person has never been loved. Oh my God, this person. And in this afterlife experience, they're faced with God and flooded with this feeling of love. And they're like, oh my God, love is real. God is real, love is real. And they're resuscitated, but they're in a coma. So then the next part, they're in this coma, and they're revived, and the doctor says, okay, you're gonna survive and you're gonna be fine. So the only problem is you had one complication, that part of your brain that feels and receives love is dead. It doesn't work anymore. So, but everything else is fine. So this person is let go into the world, and they've seen God, and they now know love is real, but the part of their brain that doesn't feel it won't work anymore. So they go on this quest to wake up that part of their brain, because they feel like they feel forsaken. They're like, Oh my God, God, God, why have you forsaken me? Like now I know love is real, but I can't feel it. And so they go on this quest to find it.

Speaker 1:
[44:35] This is a dream.

Speaker 4:
[44:36] I swear to God in my life, this is a dream. But the best part of the dream was the tail end of the dream. I'm like, I'm going to turn this into a movie.

Speaker 1:
[44:43] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[44:43] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[44:43] And then the last part of the dream, I'm standing in a hallway outside of Steven Spielberg's office. I swear to fucking God on my life. I swear that was the dream. And I woke up and I was like, but so at the same-

Speaker 2:
[45:00] Wait, wait, have you told Spielberg?

Speaker 4:
[45:02] Have you just- No, I don't know Steven Spielberg.

Speaker 1:
[45:04] You should make this a movie. You should call it Free Diver.

Speaker 4:
[45:08] Oh, well, you know, the first thing I did is I sent it to our buddy, Mark Monroe, who has written all the documentaries that Sound City and Sonic Highways and What Drives Us and all of that stuff. I'm like, dude, check out this dream I just- And he's like, well, thanks for that. I'm taking that one. And I'm like, no, no, no, let's do it, let's do it. And the crazy thing is at the time, the crazy- Oh, it gets even weirder. The craziest thing is at the time he was working on a documentary about freediving. And so-

Speaker 1:
[45:39] There's no coincidence.

Speaker 4:
[45:40] Okay, but here's the craziest thing.

Speaker 1:
[45:42] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[45:45] My therapist, my therapist, I don't know if I should even say this, my therapist had a near-death experience where the exact same thing happened basically. And I didn't know this at first. And I remember bringing it up to my therapist and my therapist and realizing, like, to me, no coincidence. Any of that.

Speaker 1:
[46:14] None of it.

Speaker 4:
[46:15] Like my subconscious making me dream this thing and then blah blah blah to this. And I'm just like, oh my god. I'll roll with it, man.

Speaker 2:
[46:23] What else can you do?

Speaker 4:
[46:24] Nothing, it just happens. And when you're like in tune online with that kind of stuff, it's like, bring it, let's go. Universe, like kick my ass, you know? Like, just fucking let's go.

Speaker 1:
[46:36] Because it all adds up and connects to something. It's there. We just got to be present and be aware of it.

Speaker 4:
[46:41] Yeah, a thousand percent.

Speaker 1:
[46:42] And for you to be able to, A, remember that, for it to be so lucid and so interesting and complex, so many complexities to that dream. And then for it to sort of, I mean, get something out of it. Fuck, I don't know, start a covers band called Free Diver or something.

Speaker 2:
[46:56] Get something out of it.

Speaker 1:
[46:57] Is there a band called Free Diver?

Speaker 4:
[46:59] It's got to be.

Speaker 1:
[47:00] Oh my god, I hope so, because if there is, I am fucking following them immediately.

Speaker 2:
[47:04] It's such a good, one word or two? One.

Speaker 4:
[47:07] Your choice, you choose.

Speaker 1:
[47:09] One.

Speaker 4:
[47:10] Free Diver.

Speaker 1:
[47:11] I don't think so.

Speaker 4:
[47:12] Really? No sub pop, Free Diver? It's so 90s.

Speaker 1:
[47:16] It's so 90s. Cebedo with support from Free Diver.

Speaker 4:
[47:19] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[47:20] Yeah, it doesn't exist. Oh, with two I's, that means it's a rapper.

Speaker 4:
[47:25] Let's go secure that IP.

Speaker 1:
[47:27] Let's go secure that IP.

Speaker 4:
[47:28] Let's do it.

Speaker 1:
[47:29] That's beautiful, man. Hey, I'm a lifelong guy. I'm a lifelong therapy guy. I don't know when you started doing therapy, but how has it really helped you? How do you, how has it enabled you? Because to me, what you've always been as a fan of your music is someone who leans into momentum almost as a life tool. Like fucking move it or lose it.

Speaker 4:
[47:49] I remember the first time I did therapy, I think my father was like, you need to go see, you need some counseling. I was probably like 10 or 11 years old. I was young. And I was turning into a rebellious punk rock motherfucker. And my father, beautiful, beautiful man, always loved my father, was not like me. He was a conservative Republican speech writer in Washington, DC. Brilliant, articulate, amazing man, incredible writer. And so I go to this counselor and I sit down and I talk to the guy for an hour or something like that. Maybe a couple of sessions. And then the next session was to be with my parents. And they just wanted to know what the fuck was going on. And unfortunately, the therapist is like, well, it seems like his biggest problem is that he thinks you're an asshole. It's so many words, so it kind of backfired. But no, I mean, over the years, you know, through Kurt passing away, you know, it's, it's, I do think that it's great to have someone to talk to and someone who has the empathy and the understanding and, you know, the knowledge or whatever it is, and like the love to be able to receive what you're giving, no matter what it is, how complicated, and to be able to reassure you, you know, like, hey man, like, we'll get through this kind of thing. And so, but yeah, I mean, fuck, I guess my whole fucking life I have been, I mean, maybe not in my really, really rebellious punk rock years, but, but I do think, you know, I do think that it's important people understand there's an opportunity and availability to grow, right? That you don't just get to this point and stay there for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1:
[50:01] Where does this album sit in the grand life story of Dave and Foo Fighters and the whole thing?

Speaker 4:
[50:06] I feel like this album is all from down here. It's from the heart. It's from the gut. It's not so much an obligation. It's more of a blessing. And it's the fact that tonight, I get to go hang out with my guys and make a ridiculous video in three hours with handheld VHS cameras, and it's gonna be hilariously funny, and it's gonna be like a school punk rock project, and everybody's so excited.

Speaker 1:
[50:53] Are you directing it?

Speaker 4:
[50:55] I mean, I won't be behind the camera because I'll be on the stage.

Speaker 1:
[50:58] But it's your idea.

Speaker 4:
[51:00] Yeah, it's not a Michelle Gondry video.

Speaker 1:
[51:01] No, no, no, it's okay.

Speaker 4:
[51:03] We're doing it at the studio. But I mean, yeah, there's some fake blood. You know, there's some strobe lights. There's, you know, there's a bunch of people bouncing around as we play a crazy.

Speaker 1:
[51:16] How does the how does music's greatest straight face comedian never have never gone further into that side of the arts? Like, it's no mystery to anyone. Like, this is not good.

Speaker 2:
[51:27] No one's going to dispute this.

Speaker 1:
[51:29] But when you're in your bag on camera and you're funny, you're the funniest fucking guy on camera. So everyone knows this. And so, even when you're not trying to be, fresh parts. So even when you're actually having a heart attack. But anyways, so like, why have you, is it just, it just doesn't interest you aside from like supporting the music?

Speaker 4:
[51:47] What, like acting? Yeah. No. I mean, I've done it a couple of times. You know, I was Satan in the Tenacious D movie.

Speaker 1:
[51:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:
[51:58] I've done little tiny things here and there, skits on SNL and stuff. But no, oh, and we made our horror movie. Again, but these are all tied in to the movie.

Speaker 1:
[52:08] I always forget about this.

Speaker 4:
[52:09] But like to go and be an actor in a movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just don't.

Speaker 1:
[52:13] I'm sure Judd must have asked you. Judd's your homie. Judd must have said, I got a part for you. Come on, come and read for this, or come do this.

Speaker 4:
[52:20] I think maybe he did a long time ago.

Speaker 1:
[52:22] He must have.

Speaker 4:
[52:24] Listen, man, I love Judd so much that I would love, I could spend 20 hours a day on set with Judd, as long as I'm just sitting next to him and not in front of the camera.

Speaker 2:
[52:35] Okay, fair enough.

Speaker 1:
[52:36] We've got that out in the open. I want to talk a little bit about the songs in detail here on this record. And starting with Courtney Echo, which was how the conversation began, and a lot of questioning and a lot of trying to figure out. I mean, it's a great existential album opener from a Foo Fighters fan point of view. What was going on when you wrote that, and ultimately, what can you share about that song in terms of what it's saying to you before it says something to us?

Speaker 4:
[52:58] You know, it's funny, sometimes the sound or the tempo or the feel of a song will determine the lyrical direction, right? And to me, the opening line of an album is so important. I mean, we still sequence albums in terms of like side A and side B. First song side A, last song side A, things like that. So to me, the first line is always really important.

Speaker 1:
[53:32] Is it do I or is this a test? Which is the opening line to you?

Speaker 4:
[53:35] I think it's, this is a test of a broken broadcast system. Consider this an evaluation of all my hallucinations. But this is not ingest. This is a conversation. I have another proposition only under one condition. And then the idea of being caught in the echo. There are times where it's like, it's just, it's feeling divided. Do I do this? Do I do that? What should I do? It's not feeling centered. It's not feeling grounded. It's feeling kind of some sort of existential question. You know, but then, the second half of the song, some things you can't divide, some things you can't define. Sometimes you can't decide, do I do I? And so, I mean, it's, I'm sure it's some caveman shit, you know, staring at the fucking night sky, just thinking like, what is this? Where am I? Who am I? What am I doing? And just sort of questioning existence, right? So, yeah, so that's basically it. But I felt like, okay, well, not only sonically in the vibe of this song, it's like, that's how I want to open the show. I want it to be like, boom. And it begins this conversation, right? Yeah, to me, it was like, one of those songs that it's just, it's kind of this, not like a mission statement, but like a proclamation. Just like, okay, this is, this is what this is. So this is the next 36 minutes. This is the next, and it's just a conversation within yourself.

Speaker 1:
[55:25] There's a lot of conversations going on within yourself. It goes right into song number two and it continues. I thought the story was super fascinating. I've never heard anyone speak publicly, or on a song at least, about coming face to face with the protagonist of a tragedy, but the protagonist has come out the other side, and ultimately is no longer the image you remember of this person who brought chaos and carnage and trauma with their very life decisions, but has actually worked it through, and is now looking you in the eyes going, hey man, if you believe in forgiveness, this is standing right here in front of you, because I'm not that person anymore. Is that a good way to sum it up?

Speaker 4:
[56:08] It's a, yes, it's a bit more like I came face to face with someone that that reminded me of some really dark shit and was triggered in this way. Of course, I didn't consider this person responsible, but just kind of a part of that thing that I hadn't felt in a really long time. And so-

Speaker 1:
[56:40] Can I ask you how that person reacted to you in the way that-

Speaker 4:
[56:44] Well, I started crying. I was backstage at a show and I just, I got really emotional because it just brought up some deep, deep pain of those dark years. While at the same time, I was flooded with like just, I was happy that this person was doing well and alive and survived. You know? And it was, I was so conflicted. And my wife Jordan was like, we should probably go now. It was like people partying and having fun. And I'm like, but yeah, I mean, again, it's feeling just sort of divided in this weird way, but ultimately just having love, you know? And feeling happy that we've survived, right? That we've all survived.

Speaker 1:
[57:39] Cause the song itself, if I may say, doesn't scream the loving resolution side of it.

Speaker 4:
[57:48] That's the side of me that gets triggered and was sort of like, what the fuck was that? Like, what the fuck? Like, you know, everyone was young kids and like, what the? What a fucking drag, you know? While at the same time, just being like, wow, oh my God. Here we are, you know? And it's funny cause I was writing it and I'm like, I felt a need to get it out of me. And listening back, it's like, my voice is doing something I haven't heard in a long time.

Speaker 1:
[58:18] For sure. And there's things on this album that are like a new ground. And some of them have a little bit of a sort of reflection. Like I think like Window to me, it could almost have been on the first record in terms of like, as a really strong concept of something. And then you just build this beautiful, loving arrangement around it, like Cows was the same, you know? It's got this thing of like, it just feels like almost you reconnected to some innocence or some naive spirit in that song.

Speaker 4:
[58:43] You know, the funny thing about Window was Harper, my daughter who's 17, she's a musician, but she prefers, she is a musician, and she's a great drummer, and she's a great bassist, and she could play guitar. She's a painter, and her paintings, she painted the bird on the cover of the Today song, EP thing.

Speaker 1:
[59:09] I didn't know that, it's beautiful.

Speaker 4:
[59:10] But it was amazing, because she was like, hey dad, can you, I need some new paint brushes before dinner. I'm like, yeah, okay. I'll go get some. And then I make dinner. And then an hour later, she walks in with this beautiful painting of an albino raven with one broken wing. And I looked at it, and beyond like her hand and her touch on the canvas, it was like the concept of what she decided to paint. It's like, that is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. An albino raven with a broken wing. It's like, I feel like that sometimes.

Speaker 1:
[59:50] People who do work on canvas or in sculpture or in spaces in a different space art-wise, where the expression requires something to be felt and then communicated to your point by hand. I'm used to the expression of music, that being the art. My sister-in-law does a lot of work on canvas and sculpture and stuff. I'm like, it's a language I'm so in awe of.

Speaker 4:
[60:12] Me too. It's feel, but feel isn't just in the hands, it's here too.

Speaker 1:
[60:20] If you take it out and put it on the canvas and it just expands out and it's such a direct thing.

Speaker 4:
[60:24] It's amazing. She's amazing, but she plays bass. I had this riff that, and I'm like, wait, is this a Breeders song? I don't know. It sounds familiar to me.

Speaker 2:
[60:37] It's got a little Malcolm Young to me almost a little bit as well. It's got a little boogie shuffle to it.

Speaker 4:
[60:42] There you go.

Speaker 3:
[60:44] Rock it to the I guess you're right.

Speaker 4:
[60:51] But I was like, I thought, hey, it'd be fun if the two of us recorded something together. And I'm like, okay, I'll put down a drum track. And so that was really just this fun exercise to the two of us jam. And then I listened to it, I'm like, it's kind of catchy. It's kind of cool.

Speaker 1:
[61:07] Is her bass part on the record?

Speaker 4:
[61:09] No.

Speaker 1:
[61:09] Fucking Nate, won't even let any kid get away with it.

Speaker 2:
[61:12] He's like, you know what, this is really great for Harper, but if you want me on this album, man.

Speaker 4:
[61:16] He brings the emo. He brings the emo. But anyway, yeah, but a song like that, it's like I didn't, that's another song I thought like, well, that's kind of a fun little jam and whatever. And then we finished it and it's it's first of all, I would, I prefer to write things quickly, not only the music, but the lyrics as well. If you have like a basic concept or some sort of anchor of this is what the song is going to be great, but I don't want to get into the weeds of like the second line in the third verse and like spend a week trying to figure that out. It's like, because sometimes that lack of self editing can be a lot more revealing. And so the chorus is like, I saw your face, your face in a window, you were a window cleaner letting in the sun. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that works. It fits and with the melody. But then I thought about it and I'm like, what a hopeful, beautiful thing to say, to see and to feel someone in your life and say like, you're my window, you're letting in my sun right now. And then I remember there was one line that said, I'm pleased to finally meet you, swinging from the ceiling, watch you hang around, watch you hang around until someone lets you down. And so I wrote that and I was literally just referring to the person that like lets the window cleaner down to the ground floor. And someone was like, oh, it's so heartbreaking. Heartbreaking way out and like, oh, okay, yeah, great.

Speaker 1:
[62:46] Yeah, the metaphor, oh, all day.

Speaker 4:
[62:48] Yeah. Well, this is the other thing. So I was thinking recently, I was like, I'm gonna write a big piece on songwriting. Not that I'm a genius, not that I'm an incredible songwriter, none of that, but just like examining, like, why do people write songs, right? And I always go back to this moment where I was stuck in my basement in Virginia. We were making the fourth record and the track was recorded and I just had to write lyrics. And everyone's just sitting downstairs in the control room waiting. And I'm upstairs in my bedroom and I'm like, fuck, no, that's not good, no, no, no, no. And Nate, I bump into him in the kitchen, he's like, are we, is it, are you finished? Can we go? I'm like, I'm stuck on this one part. And Nate said, he goes, you know, not every song has to be imagined by John Lennon. You know that, right? And I was like, oh, yeah. And the more I thought, how bad is this guy want to get back home to his couch and watch fucking TV, man? But then I'm like, yeah, what the fuck, you know? And then so wound up finishing song. But then I thought, there are things that you write that might be imagined to you, but are like, you know, meaningless to somebody else. Whereas you can write something that you might consider to be meaningless, and someone else could find deep meaning.

Speaker 1:
[64:15] I find that with Alex, with Alex Turner's lyrics a lot. I find that sometimes I'll listen to his music, and people will laugh, and they'll look across the room, and some people are so deep in it, like it's the most existential thing. And I think he loves that. It goes all different ways. Like, Don't Sit Down Cause I Moved Your Chair is one of the great, like, lyrics.

Speaker 4:
[64:34] Oh, he's amazing.

Speaker 1:
[64:35] To fit that into a song and make it like the centerpiece, not just a song title, great song title, but to actually work it in. But then I was talking to someone about that over a few too many drinks one time. They're like, no, you're not looking at it deeply enough.

Speaker 4:
[64:46] Well, I mean, last night we were coming home from dinner and the new Massive Attack song came with-

Speaker 2:
[64:53] How good is that?

Speaker 4:
[64:54] Boots on the ground.

Speaker 2:
[64:56] Boots on the ground.

Speaker 4:
[64:59] I was just like, fuck yes. Like, this is, it's so good. Or like Mitzky's Where's My Phone. Like that new Mitzky record, dude, I'm obsessed. We've all loved her for a really long time. But it's like a song like Where's My Phone. You're like, okay, well, great. But there are lines in that song where I'm just like, they kind of hit.

Speaker 1:
[65:24] Do you know who used to do that for me all day was Dean and Gene Ween.

Speaker 2:
[65:27] I used to listen to- I was in a Ween record-

Speaker 4:
[65:30] What's your favorite Ween song? Come on, let's hear it.

Speaker 2:
[65:31] Freedom of 76 is up there for sure, because that's when they really went there.

Speaker 1:
[65:35] But I mean, it's just there was so many moments where they'll pull things out and you'd be like, why was I so dismissive in the 90s about this? This is just so fucking deep.

Speaker 2:
[65:43] It is.

Speaker 4:
[65:44] Well then, see, this is Harper's favorite band.

Speaker 1:
[65:47] Ween.

Speaker 4:
[65:48] Ween. For real. No, I'm telling you.

Speaker 1:
[65:52] Unbelievable. That's incredible.

Speaker 4:
[65:55] So there are songs-

Speaker 2:
[65:57] You raised her. Congratulations.

Speaker 1:
[65:59] That's amazing.

Speaker 4:
[66:00] I love her for a million reasons. This is definitely one of them that she is-

Speaker 2:
[66:05] You know what?

Speaker 1:
[66:06] That may be nature overnurtured, to be honest with you.

Speaker 4:
[66:08] I don't even know, man. But yes, a band like Ween, it's like there are deeper reasons to love that band, and you can find them in pockets here and there. I love Ocean Man. Someone needs some hearing aids.

Speaker 1:
[66:24] So good. This album, Man, Top to Bottom, is another beautiful gift that you've given us as fans of the music. What was the song, as we say goodbye, what's the one song that you feel is the heart and soul, if you could say, of this record? The one song that you think really captures you right now, captures the band right now, and will center this album and its place in our lives.

Speaker 4:
[66:54] You know, I think it might be child actor because the intention of that song is to remove yourself from exterior expectation or validation or any of those things. And to sort of find that, to find all of those things like within yourself. And when I say that, I mean not only personally, but as a band. So when I'm singing Turn the Cameras Off, Turn the Cameras Off, Turn the Cameras Off, it's because I'm trying to express that feeling that instead of projecting this, instead of projecting this thing that you imagine others want you to be, that you have to be able to be cool with basically the band that we are. I don't know if that makes any sense. It does. So to me, that's like closing the door in the room above my garage, and just recording things, and when it's finished, being cool with it, and being okay with it, and being proud of it.

Speaker 1:
[68:28] This must truly set up the band, you and your friends, for the most fun ride yet. And I say all that, taking into account the Wembleys, and all of the huge achievements, and the great things. And I wish everyone was still here to come along for the ride, but God bless the fact that you're able to now look at it from that perspective of like, it's sort of like the spell's been broken a little bit, maybe.

Speaker 4:
[68:58] Yeah, I think that over time, you can definitely get lost in all of that sort of. Chaos that goes on outside of the little room above the garage. And it's like, and that's the home. Like, that's the guys in that little space and the thing that we do and the music we make. For us, that's our home. And to be able to walk on stage every night, it's like, now you're at home on stage, and then you jump on stage and you're like, oh, I'm going to be on stage, and then you jump on a bus to go somewhere, and now that bus, as long as we're like that, then it's home.

Speaker 1:
[69:43] This is the end of the interview.

Speaker 4:
[69:44] Thanks, Zane.