transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Charlotte Gallagher, and at 1500 Hours GMT on Thursday, the 23rd of April, these are our main stories. Lebanon's Prime Minister accuses Israel of deliberately targeting journalists in the country a day after another reporter was killed in an Israeli attack. The UN says at least 32 million people will be pushed back into poverty as a result of the U.S.-Israel war with Iran. Also in this podcast, a government-appointed panel in Tanzania says at least 500 people were killed in last year's post-election violence, and...

Speaker 2:
[00:44] The robot uses a system of cameras to understand what's happening. It's then taking decision how to move.

Speaker 1:
[00:55] Scientists have developed a robot that can beat elite players at table tennis. Lebanon has accused Israel of a war crime after a journalist was killed in the south of the country on Wednesday. The Prime Minister, Nawaf Salam, says the strike, which killed Amal Khalil and injured a freelance photographer, was deliberate and targeted. He says rescue teams were also blocked from reaching the scene. Israel denies targeting journalists or preventing rescue teams from reaching the area. It said the strike was under review. Our Middle East correspondent, Hugo Besheger, sent this report from Beirut.

Speaker 3:
[01:36] The journalists gathered in Martyrs' Square in silence. No words needed to describe the pain, the outrage, after another colleague, Amal Khalil, was killed by Israel in Lebanon. The front page of the newspaper where she worked, Al-Aqbar, featured a picture of her, microphone in hand, smiling. Lebanese officials say she was deliberately targeted by Israel in southern Lebanon while seeking shelter after an earlier airstrike and that the Israeli military then prevented rescuers from reaching her. Israel denies this but says it is reviewing the case. The Committee to Protect Journalists says Israel has killed at least seven other reporters in Lebanon during this war and dozens more before, both here and in Gaza.

Speaker 1:
[02:19] Omar Nassabeh is a founding member of the Lebanese newspaper Al-Aqbar and a university lecturer in media ethics. He knew Amal well and spoke to us as he was traveling to her funeral in southern Lebanon. He told my colleague James Menendez that he spoke to Amal shortly before she died.

Speaker 4:
[02:37] I was on the phone with Amal and we had followed her exact location. And she was with her colleague, two ladies in the car, journalists, and the car in front of them was targeted first. And the two men in the car in front of them had died. So Amal and her colleague left their car and they went to a nearby home to take refuge. After some time, the Israelis sent a fighter jet to bomb the home where Amal and her colleague had went for refuge. I think the Israelis have sufficient intelligence capacity to know exactly who was there before they bombed it. And they bombed it with a fighter jet, so it was an explicit attack to assassinate Amal Khalil.

Speaker 5:
[03:23] Is it possible that they mistook her and her colleagues for a group of Hezbollah militants?

Speaker 4:
[03:30] This is, I think, impossible considering the technology and the surveillance and the capacity of the Israelis to survey and follow up. And the evidence of this capacity is that they were able to assassinate very well protected Hezbollah military leaders. So they have the capacity to access information that can identify the persons they are targeting. This is a scientific, I mean, we are not talking about opinions here. This is their capacity and they have all the equipment to do that.

Speaker 5:
[04:00] Well, why do you think they would have wanted to kill her, though?

Speaker 4:
[04:05] Yes, that's a very good question. She received the threats last year from the Israelis on her phone many times. And many of her colleagues were actually killed by the Israelis during the past few weeks. And, you know, the pattern of killing journalists is a pattern that is very clear by the Israelis in Gaza and elsewhere. So it's not the first time they kill journalists. And I think that it's very clear that they don't care because they get away with it every time. So they keep doing it. And it doesn't matter because the international community is so permissive and is allowing impunity for the Israelis. Impunity will encourage them to do more killing and kill everyone who actually supports the resistance against the Israeli occupation.

Speaker 5:
[04:52] Do you ever expect to get any answers as to what happened and why it happened?

Speaker 4:
[04:56] You know, in this case, we would expect international law to step in. We would expect international tribunals and the international community. However, it is very evident now that these mechanisms are dysfunctional. Unfortunately, apparently, the world has lost its moral, ethical compass.

Speaker 5:
[05:15] Can I just ask you finally, I mean, how will you remember Amal as a person and as a journalist?

Speaker 4:
[05:20] Yes, we think that assassinating Amal was also a threat to all of us. And it was to stop her work. We will continue the work of Amal. And I just want to say that Amal wasn't just a journalist. When she was doing her job as a journalist, she saw so many people suffering. So she wanted also to do humanitarian work. And I was working with Amal always. We were sending trucks of food and blankets to people who were displaced in the south of Lebanon, whose homes were burned by the Israelis. So Amal, and she introduced me to so many families that are really connected to us now. And we are helping them. Mothers who lost their children, wives who lost their husbands. We're going to continue the work of Amal in the name of Amal. Amal will not die. All the work we will do, we will dedicate it to her soul.

Speaker 1:
[06:07] Afia Fork is a foreign policy advisor to Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and spoke to Sarah Montagu.

Speaker 6:
[06:15] We're looking into this incident, but what I can't tell you for 100% sure is that Israel never targets civilians. It never targets journalists. To the contrary, we do everything possible to minimize the risk to civilians and to journalists. You don't have to take my word for it. You can listen to the head of Urban Warfare at West Point, Colonel John Spencer, who says that Israel takes more measures to mitigate threats to civilians. Just a second, Sarah. All right. So those are the facts.

Speaker 7:
[06:48] I want to put some facts to you. From the Committee to Protect Journalists, 129 press members were killed last year. Israel was responsible for two-thirds of those deaths. Now, are you saying that was all an accident, a terrible mistake?

Speaker 6:
[07:06] I'm saying that war has its risks and journalism and combat zones take their risks. And unfortunately, they sometimes pay a price. What I can tell you again, 100% sure, is that Israel does everything possible to mitigate the threat to civilians.

Speaker 1:
[07:24] That was a fear fork speaking to Sarah Montague. It appears we're at a stalemate when it comes to the US-Israel war with Iran. President Donald Trump says there is now no timeframe on ending the war with no new deadline for an extended ceasefire. Iran's chief negotiator says it's not possible to reopen the Strait of Hormuz while the US maintains its blockade of Iranian ports. And crucially, there's still no sign of fresh peace talks. Meanwhile, the effect on the global economy from the war is massive, as James Cotnall heard from Alexander de Kru from the United Nations Development Programme.

Speaker 8:
[08:00] We know now even if the war would stop tomorrow, this is pushing at least 32 million people back into poverty. And it shows that things that take decades to achieve, it takes only eight weeks of war to destroy it.

Speaker 9:
[08:15] That 32 million is a startling number. Is it your understanding that that is spread fairly evenly around the world or are there places that are going to be particularly hard hit?

Speaker 8:
[08:26] No, it's spread broadly around the world, but obviously unevenly. So obviously there's the impact in the region itself. And in Iran, the estimation is that millions of people will be pushed into poverty. But then you see other effects. Sub-Saharan Africa, big, big effects through increase of energy prices, but also through unavailability of fertilizers. Many of those countries are in the planting season now, do not have access to fertilizers, so will lead to more than 40 million people risking of being in food insecurity. And then some effects really far away, I mean ripple effects in the Pacific, where small island states, and the example that was being given recently is Tuvalu, the islands of Tuvalu, who say, well, we are in fuel shortage and we'll start specialising on the usage of fuel, because the ships are just not coming through.

Speaker 9:
[09:19] Talk to us a little bit, if you can, about the sort of choices governments are facing, because you work with governments all around the world on things like developing the education system, sorting out the road network, and those sorts of long-term objectives, I suspect, are going to perhaps be compromised when government faces the sort of financial challenges that this latest crisis have provided.

Speaker 8:
[09:44] Yes, everyone is under pressure, but there is something you could do. Our call has been on international financial institutions, such as World Bank and IMF, is to accommodate through macroeconomic support. Could be cash vouchers which are limited in time and very targeted on the poorest part of the population, to help them out in just the cost of energy and access to food. Our calculation is that you need six billion for that, six billion dollars, that sounds like a lot, but if you look at just the warfare costs of just weapons and military activities, today that's estimated at nine billion per week. So six billion is a lot, but compared to that, I mean, it's not impossible.

Speaker 1:
[10:27] And on our YouTube channel, we'll be looking at how concerns over jet fuel shortages caused by the war are affecting air travel. Search for BBC News on YouTube and you'll find the Global News Podcast in the podcast section. There's a new story available every weekday. The UK and France have agreed a new three year deal to try and stop migrants from crossing into Britain on small boats. Its renewal had been delayed by disagreements over how much money would be given for French border patrols and on what conditions. The UK government says $800 million will be paid to the French authorities. Over the past three years, the numbers of those making the journey across the English Channel have risen to near record levels. Our Paris correspondent, James Waterhouse, sent this report from the town of Gravelines on the northern coast of France.

Speaker 10:
[11:19] Well, a police source has told us that this is a popular area for migrants to make a bid for the sea and cross into the UK. We're by a misty lake and there's the faint smell of burning in the air. That apparently can be because of the fires they light in this dense woodland in front of us. So let's see if there is anyone preparing. I should add, at this point, it's four in the morning and pitch black. So Paul, the producer, has just seen... Oh yeah, you can see flashlights in the distance. We can hear coughing and the breaking of branches. If they think we are police, they could turn hostile. Before waiting in the woods, most migrants gather at this large makeshift camp close to Dunkerque. Under the instructions of the people smugglers they've paid hundreds of pounds to, migrants queue for hot meals served by these volunteers or try on life jackets as they prepare for what they hope will be the final leg of their perilous journeys. Everyone we speak to sees Britain as an island of opportunity.

Speaker 11:
[12:35] My friends went to UK, they say they give value for their problems.

Speaker 7:
[12:41] There's a democracy in the UK.

Speaker 1:
[12:43] Everything they give you, it's good.

Speaker 7:
[12:45] They protect us.

Speaker 9:
[12:46] I hope to get there.

Speaker 12:
[12:48] If I come to UK, I can get job in month, maybe two and three months.

Speaker 10:
[12:53] That last person is from Somalia and is 17. He's alone, but as you can hear, is extremely motivated to escape persecution at home because of the tribe he's from and start a new life. The UK and France have finally agreed a deal, which will see more than 500 million British pounds go towards increased French border patrols. The activity here will only increase as summer progresses. And for all of the political toing and throwing and disagreements, for the thousands of people who come through here, the crossings are still seen as an acceptable path.

Speaker 13:
[13:35] The way of life in the UK, in some neighborhoods, in communities, strengthens the possibility for migrants who are coming from small town in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Iraq.

Speaker 10:
[13:46] The view of Pierre-Henri Dumont, the mayor of Marc, a small coastal town of 11,000 people.

Speaker 13:
[13:53] And they know that even if they are not taken care of by the British government, they will be taken care of by the people coming from the same country or people coming from the same village because they have some kind of relatives.

Speaker 10:
[14:07] Officials are, as you'd imagine, keen at a point to successes. More boats are now destroyed or stopped before setting off. But the uncomfortable truth is that small boat crossings are still increasing. Policing is evolving here, but not enough to break this lethal pattern of people often fleeing war or poverty, choosing to make a treacherous journey to a country less willing to take them.

Speaker 1:
[14:33] That was James Waterhouse. Still to come in this podcast, did Pope Leo's spat with President Trump overshadow or enhance his visit to Africa?

Speaker 14:
[14:46] A lot of people, I think, sat up and took notice. They thought, this is interesting. Here's this American pope. He's a counterweight to this American president, perhaps in a way that some other world leaders haven't been.

Speaker 1:
[15:05] This is The Global News Podcast. For the first time, the authorities in Tanzania have admitted that hundreds of people were killed during protests that followed the presidential election last October. A government-appointed commission says about 500 people died. The opposition party, Chidama, dismissed the report as a cover-up. Samir Hassan was declared the winner of the poll with 98% of the vote. The opposition called it a mockery of democracy. I got this assessment on the findings of the commission from our global affairs reporter, Richard Kagoi, who's covering the story from Nairobi.

Speaker 15:
[15:41] First of all, I think this being the first time that the authorities in Tanzania are admitting that actually hundreds were killed during the post-election unrest. Because before this, we'd had the authorities, they're disputing accounts by the UN and reports by opposition groups, which had alleged that between a thousand and two thousand people were killed by security forces who were responding in what they described as a violent crackdown to quell the unrest. I just listened to the Tanzanian president, Samir Suluru Hassan, speaking and she was saying that the security forces there, given the circumstances that they were operating in, they really tried their level best to protect the country from sliding into anarchy.

Speaker 1:
[16:24] And I imagine there's still a lot of anger in Tanzania about what happened during that time and the number of people that were killed.

Speaker 15:
[16:32] Absolutely, and I've spoken to people in Tanzania itself and they have expressed concern, the shock and the disbelief about what really happened. Tanzania has relatively been known to be a sort of like a stable democracy across the region. And so seeing the kind of widespread violence that rocked the country after the elections, it was something quite unprecedented. It's something that they had never seen taking place in the country. But it pointed out perhaps then, it could have been underlying issues that could have served possibly as a trigger to the widespread violence that was witnessed across the country.

Speaker 1:
[17:07] And the government now in Tanzania, I wonder how they're viewed and how do they deal with criticism? Have they become more intolerant of that?

Speaker 15:
[17:16] Well, I mean, in the period leading up to this, there have been criticism, especially from reports by human rights organizations and people, pro-democracy groups are saying that the civic space within Tanzania has shrunk significantly. We have seen voices that are seen to be very critical of the government and its policies. Some of them say perhaps like the opposition leader, Tondolisu, who has been incarcerated on treason charges. We have seen sort of like a mausoleum of the press, you know, indicatedly, journalists really operating under a climate of fear. So that sense of independence and freedom of expression has really become a point of concern in terms of the direction that Tanzania is heading because they've got one very predominant party that has ruled the country since independence in 1960.

Speaker 1:
[18:05] Richard Kugui, the former president of Zambia, Edgar Lungu, died of an undisclosed illness back in June last year at the age of 68 in a clinic in South Africa. But few could have predicted the extraordinary twists and turns of a long running saga over what should be done with his body. Now, court in South Africa has blocked the repatriation of his remains, halting plans for an official state funeral in his homeland. I had more from BBC Africa's senior correspondent, Nomsim Iseko.

Speaker 16:
[18:35] Edgar Lungu's body was taken from the funeral home on Wednesday night. And this was done without his family's knowledge. The authorities of Zambia had basically exploited a legal gap after the family missed a deadline in its appeal against the ruling that his remains need to be repatriated for a state funeral. The Zambian government wants Mr. Lungu to be buried alongside his predecessors in the capital, Lusaka. But the family then wanted a private burial to be held in South Africa because the negotiations over how the funeral was going to be taking place had broken down. You would recall that there was, there were claims made by Edgar Lungu's family that said that Mr. Lungu did not want his successor, Haka Ndeye Chilema, to attend his funeral. So that's been the longstanding feud, though, between the two politicians. But currently, the family has filed an injunction with the South African High Court for the former president's body to be returned to the funeral home. But the court has said that there is no urgency in this matter, because Mr. Lungu died just over 10 months ago here in South Africa. So there will be a court hearing which is set to take place on the 21st of May. So so far, both parties have been told not to touch their remains, not to repatriate them, and that they need to stay in South Africa until such time that this hearing is concluded.

Speaker 1:
[20:16] And what are people in Zambia making of this?

Speaker 16:
[20:19] Well, there's a lot of people who say that, you know, Zambia already has a lot of more pressing issues that the government should be focusing on. Chief amongst those is the fact that the country is going to the presidential elections on the 13th of August. But many have also said that they are appalled by how the body was taken without the knowledge of Lungu's family and saying that the former president had suffered indignity.

Speaker 1:
[20:47] That was Nomsa Maseko reporting. Pope Leo has ended his 11-day trip to Africa, visiting Algeria, Cameroon, Angola and lastly, Equatorial Guinea. It was billed by the Vatican as a chance to turn the world's attention to Africa and highlight themes such as reconciliation, migration and interfaith dialogue. But his visit was nearly overshadowed by a row with the White House in Washington in which President Trump called him weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy. Pope Leo has been a vocal critic of America and Israel's war on Iran. James Menendez discussed the visit with Catherine Papinsta, former editor of the Catholic magazine The Tablet and Father Don Bosco Onyala, the founding editor of ACI Africa, which provides news affecting the Roman Catholic Church on the continent. So what were the takeaways from Pope Leo's visits?

Speaker 17:
[21:40] He has been able to go beyond the capital cities. But also, if you look at the beginning of the visit, that he went to Algeria as the first pontiff to go there. His predecessors never went there and he has been there.

Speaker 5:
[21:53] Why did he go there? Because I mean, I think there's only a very, very tiny minority of Catholics in Algeria, aren't there?

Speaker 17:
[22:00] He does not mind about the numbers and he goes there actually to encourage that small number that they are a part of the Catholic Church.

Speaker 5:
[22:09] To what extent, Catherine, do you think this trip was overshadowed by the spat with President Trump just before he left or perhaps has it enhanced it in some way?

Speaker 14:
[22:18] It was overshadowed, yes. However, it helped place him on the world stage as a very significant figure. And I think Leo so far has seemed a much quieter presence perhaps than Pope Francis. But I think we've seen that he's got a certain amount of steel about him. He wasn't phased by the attacks on him. A lot of people, I think, sat up and took notice. They thought, this is interesting. Here's this American pope. He's a counterweight to this American president, perhaps in a way that some other world leaders haven't been.

Speaker 5:
[22:57] Father, how did it look from where you are? How did his apparent standing up to President Trump go down with church leaders during the trip, church leaders in those four countries during the trip?

Speaker 17:
[23:09] It was on the trip to Angola, coming from Cameroon, that he was able to clarify that he comes to Africa as a pastor. And actually, that's who he is in the world. He's a shepherd. He's not a politician. And I think he was very explicit about that. And he also clarified that his messages were prepared long before his travel. So if there was the impression like he was responding to Trump, then that was not really the case, because he does not want to get into an argument with Trump. He is a pastor on spiritual matters.

Speaker 5:
[23:44] Catherine, do you see him as a political pope or as a pastor?

Speaker 14:
[23:48] He's very much a pastor. That's his primary role. But don't forget that the Vatican is a significant diplomatic force. And while Father is correct in saying those speeches were written two weeks ago, nevertheless, he still decided to give a speech in Bermuda, where he talked about the world being ravaged by tyrants. They would have known how they might be interpreted, and they decided not to row back on them. So they decided to stick to their script, and that decision has consequences, and they will have known that.

Speaker 5:
[24:22] Yeah. And Father, just a quick final word to you. And I just wanted to ask this. I mean, do you think there will be, perhaps in your lifetime, a black pope?

Speaker 17:
[24:30] In electing a pope, they look at, you know, his profile and the ability to lead the worldwide Catholicism. What is happening now, of course, is that there is growth here in Africa. Seminaries are full, and Africa that used to be receiving missionaries now is sending missionaries. Religious orders that had Europeans and Americans at the helm are now having Africans at the helm. So, it's perhaps a question of time. It seems like Africa will provide that which has never been the case in the past.

Speaker 1:
[25:08] Father Don Bosco Onyala and Catherine Papinsta speaking to James Menendez. Judges at the International Criminal Court have confirmed that the former Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte will face trial on charges of crimes against humanity over his so-called war on drugs. The pre-trial judges concluded that there were substantial grounds to believe that Mr. Duterte played a key role in the murders of dozens of people as part of the violent campaign while he was in office. From The Hague, Anna Holigan reports.

Speaker 18:
[25:40] A legal document confirming the charges catalogues 49 incidents in which suspected drug dealers, thieves and people labelled as high-value targets were shot dead by alleged hit squads said to have been operating under Rodrigo Duterte's control. Prosecutors say, financial incentives and promises of protection from prosecution were offered to police officers and members of such squads and that the scale of the killings was widespread and systematic. At 81, Mr. Duterte will become the first former Asian head of state to go on trial at the ICC, which prosecutes individuals accused of the world's most serious atrocities. He denies the allegations. His defence team argues he's not mentally fit to follow proceedings. However, after a series of medical assessments, judges have ruled that he is fit to stand trial and that the evidence against him is strong enough to proceed.

Speaker 1:
[26:33] Anna Holligan at The Hague. Finally, to yet another example of the rapid advance of AI and robotics, Sony's artificial intelligence team has built a table tennis robot that's defeated elite players. The machine is as big as the table. And researchers in the science journal Nature say it's capable of split-second decision making. It faced five elite players and two professionals, winning three out of its five matches. Peter Dürr, who's an AI researcher at Sony, says the robot can't be programmed by hand. It has to learn from experience.

Speaker 2:
[27:17] The robot uses a system of cameras to understand what's happening. It's then taking decision how to move. And it's then moving the racket to hit the ball back or to serve. So the robot has to play to learn how to play. And the more it plays, the better it gets.

Speaker 1:
[27:41] Bit terrifying that, wasn't that? That was Peter Dürr from Sony. And that's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can email us at globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. You can also find us on X at BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. And don't forget our sister podcast, The Global Story. The latest edition has an in-depth look at why planned talks between the US and Iran and Islamabad this week never materialized and what might happen next. This edition of The Global News Podcast was mixed by Chris Lovelock and the producers were Judy Frankel and Stephen Jensen. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Charlotte Gallagher. Until next time, goodbye.