transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Thrivent believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs, offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters most to you. With more than 120 years of experience as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country. To learn more, visit thrivent.com. Thrivent, where money means more.

Speaker 2:
[00:43] You know, this is First Take. Your boy's in the house. You understand what I'm saying? My girl, Shae, is right next to me. I'm here for her. I'm here in New York City for her. But where I should be is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The night of the NFL Draft. But leave it to the man who pivots everywhere. The one and only RC, Ryan Clark, chilling, you know, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And to the figure where he's there, the weather looks all nice and snazzy. Look how comfortable he looks. Man in black and all of that other stuff. He's about to drop some NFL knowledge on us. There's nobody better at doing it. But damn it, hurry up and pivot your ass back to New York City with the rest of us, okay? That is an order. Watch your manners today, RC. I'm watching you, baby. I'm watching you. That will bomb big perk in the crew, everybody in the house today. Stephen A and Shae, I like how that sounds. Oh, Mina's dead too. Blessing us with her presence. I didn't see her until just now. I didn't see it just till now. Nice hairdo, by the way, Mina. Drop the knowledge as always. First take is in the house. Picked up a football when I was 6 years old, and I've been chasing that dream ever since.

Speaker 3:
[02:00] It's just a dream that I've had since I was 4 years old.

Speaker 4:
[02:03] Even announcing it in my mirror in the bathroom.

Speaker 5:
[02:05] We're the first pick.

Speaker 6:
[02:08] This is really a dream come true.

Speaker 7:
[02:09] This guy's a linen man, and I can't wait.

Speaker 3:
[02:16] A threat of a home run every time he touches it.

Speaker 6:
[02:18] Sacked by the best in the biz.

Speaker 2:
[02:20] You're looking at the best wide receiver in college football.

Speaker 4:
[02:23] And that's why you won the Heisman Trophy.

Speaker 5:
[02:34] ESPN's Draft Takeover is powered by Shopify.

Speaker 1:
[02:44] That's right, the NFL Draft is tonight. Here are some of the biggest questions of night one. The Jets are expected to take an edge rusher with the second overall pick. The question is, which one will it be between David Bailey and Arvel Reese? Either one would become New York's second defensive player picked in the top three since 1967. Notre Dame's Jeremiyah Love is expected to be the first running back off the board. But will he be a top five pick? If so, would he would become the first running back picked in the top five since Saquon Barkley in 2018, finally under center. When will quarterback Ty Simpson hear his name called? Simpson could be the fourth Alabama quarterback selected in the first round since 2020, joining Mac Jones, Bryce Young and Tua Tunga-Viloa. And so we say hello and good morning to two people that are in Pittsburgh ahead of the NFL Draft tonight. Hello, Mina Kimes. Hello, Ryan Clark. How are you? Stephen A. Good morning to you as well.

Speaker 2:
[03:36] Good morning, Shae. I'm not used to seeing both of them go off from me. I'm not used to seeing both of them go off from me, and I'm certainly not used to seeing both of them on the road while I'm here in New York City. But it's okay. Got love for y'all anyway. Appreciate y'all being here.

Speaker 1:
[03:49] That's right. Let's start with Ty Simpson.

Speaker 4:
[03:50] We brought the good weather to Pittsburgh, man. The sunshine.

Speaker 1:
[03:53] That's all fine and good because we ain't there. Ryan, I'm going to start with you. Will Simpson hear his name called tonight?

Speaker 4:
[04:01] I don't believe that Ty Simpson will. Now, there's people that are trying to talk themselves in to Ty Simpson. When you look at some of these mock drafts, it's people saying that the Arizona Cardinals will draft Ty Simpson late in the first round. But why? Why does a team need to move up and draft a quarterback that you're unsure about? A quarterback that didn't start the season off well against Florida State. But there was a run for Ty Simpson in the SEC where we were highly touting him as maybe a top five, top ten pick along with Fernando Mendoza. But when you watch the end of that season, and you have to be fair, right? There wasn't a run game in Alabama. Some of his outside wide receivers dropped the football and the protection lacked. But you just can't believe in a guy who hasn't played that much football that he can correct some of the things that we saw as faults toward the end of the season by just playing in the NFL. Ty Simpson is a guy that needs to sit, a guy that needs to watch and a player that needs to learn. You don't draft those people in the first round when there are positional players that can make an impact immediately for your organization.

Speaker 1:
[05:09] So he says no. Mina, what do you think?

Speaker 8:
[05:12] Yeah, I agree with RC. I keep hearing the Arizona Cardinals want Ty Simpson, fine. But why would the Arizona Cardinals have to trade up into the first if there's no competition? It does just take one other team, but I haven't consistently heard any other team mentioned than the Cardinals. And RC expressed many of the reasons why. Ty Simpson's tape in the first half of the season is excellent. I do think he has an NFL caliber arm. He's clearly a very smart quarterback. But for him to succeed in the league, he would be a tremendous outlier in a couple of ways. One is the lack of experience. When you look at the track record of quarterbacks drafted in the first round with this few starts, it is a small group. Most recently Anthony Richardson, of course, which didn't work out. So that respect makes him an outlier, the inexperience. But then on top of that, you also have his size. The number of quarterbacks at his size, six foot one under 215 pounds, who have succeeded in this league is vanishingly small. You're talking about Russell Wilson, who put on some weight. Mike Vick, who was one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game, of course, if not the greatest. And then Bryce Young. Drew Brees is another prototype. Do you really believe he can be Drew Brees, the most accurate quarterback of all time? So I just feel like teams to make this bet on him, who are having to overlook the inexperience, as well as the size and say this tape is enough to justify a first round draft pick, it doesn't seem to me that many teams are willing to make that bet.

Speaker 2:
[06:37] Shae, as I've said on many, many occasions, I am a brilliant man, because I know I'm not. I listen to those who are. And when I think about Meena Combs and I think about RC, I think about the brilliance that comes out of my mouth from time to time, people thinking it's me, when all I did was steal it from them. I learned from them. They've taught me football, okay? All of these people here, right? Which is why it's very, very difficult for me to disagree with them. But I have to disagree with them based on the tutelage that they have blessed me with. I look at a guy like Ty Simpson. There's an eight game stretch where the brother had about 19 touchdowns, just one interceptions, looked absolutely sensational. Went through a six game stretch where obviously that was not a case only completed. 60% of his passes had about seven touchdowns, four interceptions, looked like a shell of himself. There were some injuries that came in the play, no doubt. You have receivers dropping passes, there's no doubt. We had an Alabama crew that couldn't run the football, there's no doubt. We had an offensive line that wasn't the greatest in the world at blocking and protecting their pass throw. There's no doubt about that. I'm taking all of that into consideration. And then I'm thinking about what's the evaluation on this kid? What do they say about him here? Calm, poise in the pocket, okay? Solid arm strength, strong confidence, high football IQ, defensive recognition, stands out for a quarterback with only 15 starts. And then I'm thinking about where has Mina Combs and Ryan Clark forgot where the hell they're at this morning? That's Pittsburgh. Have you seen the quarterback over the last six, seven years? Where the hell are y'all? Do y'all think y'all in Los Angeles with Matthew Stafford? Do you think you're in Buffalo with Josh Allen? Are you in Baltimore with Lamar Jackson? Are you in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes? No, you're in Pittsburgh, who's dependent on a geriatric to admit, yo, I'm going to come back and play at approaching age 43. Before that, what quarterback have you had? Of course you have to take a quarterback. If Ty Simpson is there at the 21st overall pick, you are the Pittsburgh Steelers, unless Will Howard has shown us something that we haven't seen, we haven't heard or anything like that. How can you possibly pass to them? Is it Mike McCarthy, the former Dallas Cowboys Head Coach, the former Green Bay Packer Head Coach, who is the guy that drives quarterbacks and doesn't mind sitting them and letting them wait and develop? Isn't this the quarterback whisperer to some degree, a guy that's known for being able to develop quarterbacks? Well, guess what? Ty Simpson, the quarterback of a coach, by the way, whose daddy's a coach, whose football IQ is there, who's got some arm strength, who's got some talent, yes, four years at Alabama. Three years didn't start at all, okay? They only threw about 50 passes before last year. Then he comes on and he does what he does. But we look at all the things around Alabama, and there was a lot of things that were not what they once were, which contributed to the lack of reduction he may have put forth. I'm of the mindset, you're the Pittsburgh Steelers, you gotta take a quarterback if you're at number 21. And if this is the second rated quarterback in the draft, you gotta take him.

Speaker 1:
[09:44] Would it be a mistake, Mina, for the Steelers to draft Simpson?

Speaker 8:
[09:49] I want you to take that exact segment, just take everything Stephen A said, we're in Pittsburgh, we need a quarterback, we're picking in the 20s. And then just take out Ty Simpson's name and put in Kenny Pickett's because that's exactly what all y'all sounded like during that draft. That's not true. Maybe he's not the best, but we just need a quarterback and we're going to take a shot at one.

Speaker 2:
[10:11] No, Ty Simpson had a better reputation than Kenny Pickett. No, no, no, hold on a minute.

Speaker 8:
[10:16] I don't know about that, Stephen A.

Speaker 4:
[10:17] I do not know about that.

Speaker 2:
[10:21] Let me commit a blasphemous moment right here on First Take. Let me get on me in the comments before I give it back to RC. When Kenny Pickett was picked, one of the biggest reasons people were talking about him, it wasn't just about his talent and potential or whatever. They weren't talking about him like Ty Simpson. He was right there in Pittsburgh, playing for the University of Pittsburgh, practicing on the same damn field at Pittsburgh. So there was this relationship and this chemistry and how they knew of him. This is the kind of stuff they were saying. I'm not saying it was true, RC, but they were saying that. I don't know, but that's what they were saying.

Speaker 4:
[10:55] But Stephen A., what Mina's saying is absolutely right because the difference between Ty Simpson and Kenny Pickett was in Kenny Pickett's draft, he was largely thought of as the best quarterback prospect in the draft because if we remember, it was just him and Malik Willis. And so if you were going to draft a quarterback, Kenny Pickett was gonna be the first one. Whether it was at 20, whether it was at the beginning of the second round, there were different conversations around him. Yesterday, Peter Schrager is talking about the fact that Ty Simpson passed up on NIL money at other schools. At what point in life does a university have a guy who's been there for three years, a guy that started and they love that they are letting field other offers from other schools? You just pay him at Alabama. Alabama been paying players since before you were supposed to pay players. So at least if they got one they want to keep, they're going to pay him now. Ty Simpson has so much to work on. Ty Simpson can't be a dude that goes to a bad football team because all of those things that you're saying about who Alabama was that contributed to Ty Simpson not playing well down the stretch. If somebody drafts him early, they're probably going to have some of those same issues. So if you're the Arizona Cardinals, don't bid against yourself. Ain't nobody else going to pick him in the first round. You wait, you try to get him later on in the draft, and now you can allow him to progress and sit in the manner that he should to allow him to accumulate some of the reps that he didn't get at Alabama. Because when you say, hey, it was nine games of good football and six games of subpar football, we don't have two other years as a starting quarterback of excellence to compare and contrast that to.

Speaker 2:
[12:51] I'm certainly not encouraging Arizona or anybody else to trade up for him. I'm just saying if you Pittsburgh and he falls to number 21, I mean, is there somebody else definitively that you take? I just don't know. But I got it. All right, I'll stand corrected. I'll stand corrected.

Speaker 4:
[13:06] The problem is now you're giving Mike, so think about this, Stephen A. Now you're giving Mike McCarthy a quarterback room that has Will Howard, right? Mason Rudolph, and then Ty Simpson. That's not the quarterback room you want to have with Ty Simpson being the first round kick of the organization and the pressure to start him right now.

Speaker 1:
[13:29] Okay. And again, we have Aaron Rodgers potentially waiting in the wings. Ty Simpson also had an issue with fumbling. He fumbled in six of his last 10 games last year. That would be something he needs to clean up. Let's go to a player that is on the up and up. Notre Dame running back Jeremiyah Love could potentially be, maybe, the best player in this draft. Should he go in the top five to the Cardinals, Titans, Giants? What do you think, Mina?

Speaker 8:
[13:54] I think two of those three teams do not make sense. The Giants are defensible for me. If you're taking a running back top five, the first thing you have to do is obviously scout the running back. Is he worth it? I think we all agree Jeremiyah Love is, if not the most talented, one of the most talented players in the draft. The second thing you have to do is self-scout. You have to look at your own roster because when you take this running back here, there's an opportunity cost. There's a chance to take a player at offensive tackle or edge rusher, and if that player hits, you are saving so much money. Jeremiyah Love is going to come in and have the most guaranteed money of any running back in the NFL, not the draft, right? So you have to look at your roster and say, okay, do we like our field at these positions? Are we comfortable? Then you have to look at your offensive line. You do not want to draft a running back high if your offensive line is not ready for that. The Las Vegas Raiders are the perfect case study for that disaster scenario with Ashton Gentey. I do not think the Cardinals or the Titans are in position to just drop in a running back and let them go. The Giants, I can get there. I still think they need to add to the interior of their offensive line, but you got a number one receiver in League Neighbors. You have two good offensive tackles. So I feel a little bit better about that situation. Also, they have that second pick now at 10. That, to me, makes sense, Arcee.

Speaker 4:
[15:12] Yeah, Mina is talking like a general manager, which I think she absolutely can be. She's talking about the money that goes in to Jeremiyah Love. She's speaking about where your roster is set up in order to allow him to excel. My feeling on it is he shouldn't get out of the top five because he's the best player in this draft. He's going to give you immediate impact. If you're the New York Giants and now you have a pick at 10, you have the quarterback of the future in Jackson Dart already. You have Malik Nabors who is a sure fire number one. Do not talk yourself out of picking the best player in this draft at a position where he is valued. At number five, we've seen what guys like Christian McCaffrey could be drafted in the top 10. We've seen what Bijon Robinson could be drafted in the top 10. We saw Saquon Barkley's early impact on the New York Giants as the number two overall pick. I feel like at some point we're making this too difficult. I do understand if you're the Arizona Cardinals that you have to make moves to make this team better holistically. If you're at number four and you're the Tennessee Titans, then Orville Reese isn't picked or David Bailey isn't picked, and those guys are instant impact players at their position, I understand. But if you're the New York Giants and John Hawbaugh, and you're trying to build the team in the same mind frame that you built the Baltimore Ravens, you go draft the most dynamic human in this draft. There isn't a wide receiver that does what Jeremiyah Love does. There isn't a quarterback that's going to do what Jeremiyah Love does. And there isn't a tight end, even in Sadiq from Oregon, that's going to impact your locker room and your on-field success the way Jeremiyah Love does the minute he walks into the locker room. And to me, allowing him to get out of the top five for some team not trying to trade with Arizona to get into the top five to take him that feels like they're a player away would be a mistake.

Speaker 2:
[17:10] I'm definitely of that mindset with RC as well. I completely agree with him. You're the New York Giants, you should take him. And you got Scadaboo coming back, dammit. The combination of both of them could work for you, along with Jackson Dart. And remember that when you're talking about Jeremiyah Love, they're not just talking about his running ability, they're talking about his size, his big quads, his big, his long arms, and how he can pass catch out of the backfield as well. I mean, he can catch the ball. He is a dual threat. He ain't just a player that can just run with the football. He can catch it too. So being that kind of dual threat out of the backfield, I think is incredibly important for what you want to do with the New York Giants, not to mention the fact that you want to protect Jackson Dart as much as you possibly can. We keep forgetting that the brother had about five concussions his rookie year. I mean, from preseason through the season, he had about five different times that he suffered a concussion. I'm looking at it along those lines, getting the ball out of his hands quickly to weapons like that is certainly something that's going to preserve him. I think you have to take that into consideration. And if he falls to the Giants, they absolutely should take him.

Speaker 1:
[18:11] I'm going to put you guys on the spot really quick here. Do you think it's more likely a team in the top five that we laid out drafts Jeremiyah Love or someone trades up to get him? A Chiefs, a Cardinals is already there, someone like that. What do you think?

Speaker 4:
[18:29] I think the biggest problem is teamed. Oh, go ahead, Mina.

Speaker 8:
[18:33] No, no, you go. All right, well, what I was going to say is I think, no, I think it's more likely a team sticks and picks. I think if a team trades up, it would be to take one of the pass rushers, like an Arville Rees or David Bailey. I think it's more likely that one of those teams in the top five sticks and picks Jeremiyah Love like the Giants.

Speaker 1:
[18:49] Ryan, go ahead.

Speaker 4:
[18:50] Yeah, I agree with that as well, because if you're a team that's not in the top five, you're weighing the exact same options that Mina is. You're looking at these top five teams and you're saying at three or four, we don't expect him to be picked, and the New York Giants will now become the pick that you would have to try to work some deal with the Tennessee Titans in order to get ahead of them to make that pick. If Jeremiyah Love falls past the New York Giants, in the same way I feel that it's Arville Rees were to fall past the New York Giants, I believe that's where the draft gets interesting and we could see some teams starting to try to make a play to move up to that number six spot where the Cleveland Browns are to make a move on one of these dynamic players if they do slip early on in this draft.

Speaker 2:
[19:35] I also think the reticence that people have historically had about running backs from time to time, obviously that wasn't applicable to a guy like St. Juan Barclay and stuff like that, but for the most part, because of the reticence that people have had when it comes to running backs, do you want to be the team that moved up for him, and then all of a sudden something happens, something like an injury or anything like that. I think that's some reticence that would hit an executive, that would make them a bit reluctant to make that move up. It's one thing to grab them when he's there at your pick and you just grab them. But the sacrifice picks to move up to get him, when you know at the running back spot anything could happen at any given moment, it's something that's going to make people a bit reticent to do that.

Speaker 1:
[20:13] The team I was thinking about that I couldn't think of was the Cowboys. Another team that I thought maybe could be in the mix for a team I want to trade up to get a talent like this and Jeremiyah Love. It all goes down tonight. We cannot wait for the NFL Draft. Me and Ryan, we'll see you a little bit later. Thank you very much. Coming up here on First Take, SGA and the Thunder rolled by the suns last night, but the news was not all good for the MVP. We'll tell you why and we'll ask Stephen A if OKC is suddenly not a okay. Plus, George Pickens might not be long for Dallas after some Stephen Jones comments yesterday. Why those comments could alter the Cowboys' plans tonight in a really big way.

Speaker 6:
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Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
[23:12] For my 11 years, I haven't called a ref out by name, but James was terrible tonight through and through. It's bad for the sport, bad for the integrity of the sport. You know, people are going to start viewing this as a WWE, you know, if they're not held responsible. That just feels disrespectful, you know. I know I haven't won a championship in this league, but I have been in it for 11 years now. So to get to this point, to be treated like that, for me to even be saying something out loud, it's bad.

Speaker 1:
[23:45] Kendrick Perkins now joins us here on First Take. Perk, what's your reaction to what Book said?

Speaker 7:
[23:50] I mean, that's the effect of the Oklahoma City Thunder. You know, in the wild, right, the most annoying animal is the hyena, in my opinion. And this is not...

Speaker 2:
[24:02] They want to eat everything, they want to bother everybody.

Speaker 7:
[24:03] Yeah, and that's...

Speaker 2:
[24:04] Or they're gonna nibble.

Speaker 7:
[24:05] Yep, and that's the Oklahoma City Thunder. They're a bunch of wild pack of hyenas. They're a bunch of pack of hyenas defensively. And why do I bring that up? It's because this is not the first time that we've seen players crying after they finished playing against the Oklahoma City Thunder. This is what they do. They get on your ass like back pockets. It's a certain level of physicality that they play with and they just have earned the respect of the officials. And I get it, that technical foul, should have gotten it, no. But even in the history, history tells me even when I was playing the game of basketball, we would always do that to refs. Hey, he deserve a take for that now. Don't let him get away with that. That's part of the game. The real question is to Devin Booker is when the hell are you gonna show up and be Devin Booker? Be that guy. Be a guy that's powerful and not popular. Because let's keep it a buck. Since the play-in tournament, he hasn't been that guy that's been out there and had any type of real powerful moment. Yes, he's been a guy that's been, you know, a leader, a guy that's been getting others involved, but Devin Booker get paid the big bucks to get buckets and dance on the big stage. That's what I want to see out of Devin Booker.

Speaker 2:
[25:21] Well, listen, I agree with you there, that don't make him wrong with what he was saying because I watched it, I didn't think he deserved the tech. He's going to get fined because you called the tech out, you called the ref out by name. A fine is coming. Right now, the NBA office office opened about an hour and a half ago. They looking for some money. They're going to take some money from that brother, make no mistake about it, because you can't do that. But in the same breath, like Big Perk said, they're like a pack of hyenas. I call them a pack of piranhas, they come for you. This is what the Oklahoma City done to do. And they frustrate you because defensively, they're a collectively stout unit. Everybody's in their right places, they don't miss assignments, there's no drop off in energy no matter what. Whether somebody's switching on you, whether they're staying on you, fighting through picks, whatever it is, they are always, always on you. There are very, very few occasions where you see any lapses in judgment or an execution on a part of the Oklahoma City Thunder defense. That's what their signature is all about. Even without Jalen Williams this year, they were like 39 and 10. They're going to find ways to win games. They're going to find ways to get at you, and they get up in you, and you go against an opponent like that, you know that anything less than your A game is not going to suffice. So that may be frustrating. He's got 45 points in two games, Devin Booker. They've held him in relative check. Obviously, he hasn't been what he's supposed to be against him, and I'm sure that that has contributed to his frustration. But in the same breath, this ain't the first time he's played against OKC. This ain't the first time he has struggled against a team. For him to call out a ref like that, that's not something he normally does. Now, the NBA ain't going to take that into too much consideration, because they still going to get that check from him. Make no mistake about it. But it is worth noting, that's not his MO. That's not something he does.

Speaker 7:
[27:10] It's not, but we really need to stop as a whole, including the players that are playing on the floor, especially when it comes to OKC and SGA. When it comes to SGA getting a quote unquote favorable whistle, because of his ability to be able to draw files or get to the free throw line. We used to praise people for their ability of getting to the free throw line. And I'm talking about greats, guys that are respected. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, LeBron James, the list goes on. So SGA is not the first player or superstar player, caliber player, superstar type player to come about and start getting a favorable whistle or selling calls. It's been that way for a long time.

Speaker 2:
[28:01] But that's not really it with SGA. What the real issue with SGA is that SGA is a bad brother that's busting everybody's ass. I mean, that's what he's doing on a regular basis. He's just night in night out no matter who he goes up against. And it's the relative ease with which he does it. If it's a step back three, fine. If it's a pull up mid-range, fine. If it's get to the hole, if it's a Euro step, fine. If it's get to the free throw line, fine. Whatever way you need him to beat you, he beats you. And he's just a spectacular, spectacular talent. That's what he has evolved into. But again, the collective complaint about Shae Gildges is what Big Perkins alluded to, because it ain't Phoenix. It's everybody that goes against OKC. They're complaining about some of the fouls that SGA is getting. They ain't bringing up the pull-up jumpers. They ain't bringing up the threes. They ain't bringing up the open court and how he's dancing on cats and going to the lift. They ain't thinking about the fact that you got guys with muscles coming out of their air, and they complaining about getting pushed off by this slim dude. Why? Because he's deceptively strong, he's slick, he's skilled, and he's just a magician on a basketball court on the offensive end of the floor. And people are jealous because they just ain't him. But that is not about Devin Booker last night. Devin Booker to call out an official, and I'm not calling out the official, I'm simply saying we have to take this into consideration. It's not what he does. He doesn't do that. Devin Booker doesn't do that. So for him to do that, and to name an official by name, and he didn't say that one call. He said all night long, this guy, this guy, this guy. That's something for the NBA, why you taking a check from him to take seriously and look at the tape and see what Devin Booker is talking about, because that's not something he does.

Speaker 1:
[29:40] To that point, and I agree with you, you just got to be on your A-game if you're playing Oklahoma City. But to play devil's advocate here, multiple teams and coaches, we heard Mike Brown say something too, when the Thunder played the Knicks, bring coaches too. Like, nobody has a point that maybe they're being officiated differently?

Speaker 7:
[29:54] Well, who is Mike Brown to be trying to call out somebody like Jalen Brunson is not a guy that sell calls and get to the free.

Speaker 2:
[30:00] That's absolutely true.

Speaker 7:
[30:00] I mean, well damn. But my thing is, my thing is this, Shae, as a coach, right? I understand, okay, Devin Booker, this is his first time doing it, but the coaches, that set a bad tone in the locker room. In the playoffs, you supposed to have a next play mentality. You know who's one of the best teams in the league at not getting technical files? The NBA champions, the Oklahoma City Thunder. They don't complain about nothing. And a lot of times they have the right to complain, but they have established an identity, a certain level of physicality. So they have a reputation that they play a certain type of way.

Speaker 1:
[30:40] Dillon Brooks says they're not physical at all. If you heard his post came out.

Speaker 2:
[30:43] Well, he can say what he wants. And I was very impressed with Dillon Brooks last night because he fought and fought and fought to the very end. And I give Dillon Brooks a lot of credit. Damn it, I wish he was a Nick to be honest with you. I think he's the kind of guy that the New York Knicks need. I like Dillon Brooks a lot, but I want to say this too. Perk is right about how OKC doesn't complain. Here's the part that you didn't bring up about somebody like Mike Brown that deserves to be brought up. The Phil Jacksons, the Pat Raleigh's, even the Chuck Dillies or Larry Brown, people like that of the world, they would complain about the officiating going into a game in an effort to try to manipulate how the game would be called. And it would be playoff time stuff like that. That is entirely different than Mike Brown, who is complaining during the regular season about a loss after it happened. You see what I'm saying? Now, that's different. That's the kind of thing that makes you look at it and say, come on, bro, you need to stop that nonsense. Now, if you're complaining about something going into it, it's gamesmanship on the part of coaching. You're trying to get an advantage. You're trying to make sure a game is called a certain way, that kind of thing. But when you complain after you get your ass kicked in a regular season game and it ain't even the playoffs, no, that's just an ass kicking that you did not absorb properly. That's what that's about.

Speaker 1:
[31:58] So this might not be the last time we hear from players or coaches or whatever about Oklahoma City, but it wasn't all great yesterday. Jalen Williams did have 19 points, but he left the game in the third quarter with a left hamstring injury, and he did not return. Also, how concerning.

Speaker 2:
[32:12] Also, with the Phoenix Suns season high, 41 turnovers in these two games. Let's not forget that too. So again, Oklahoma City is all over them. I'm very concerned in regards to your question about Jalen Williams because he's had a plethora of injuries. I'm just looking here at the list, the laundry list of injuries. These are the games. He's missed 19 games because of a wrist injury. He's missed 17 games because of a hamstring injury. He's missed 11 games because of a thigh injury. And obviously, two games because of injury management. This brother has missed a lot of games. They still win without him. But I don't think you'd be in San Antonio without Jalen Williams. I don't know if you'd beat somebody like Denver or Minnesota without Jalen Williams. I think you need him with Shae in order to win. I think that Jalen Williams is a very significant thing to keep our eyes on because no matter how gifted and deep Oklahoma City may be, there's a reason this brother starts alongside Shae Gildge's Alexander when he's healthy. This is a brother that dropped a 40 piece in the NBA Finals. This is Jalen Williams here. You gotta stop talking about him like he's some ordinary player. And by the way, a couple of years back, there was only one team. There's only two players that made the all NBA team and the all NBA defensive team. It was Eric Mobley for the Cleveland Cavaliers, and it was Jalen Williams for the Oklahoma City Thunder. This is a valuable, valuable piece to this team. And without him, I would be very, very concerned about what Oklahoma City is going to be able to do come this postseason.

Speaker 7:
[33:46] I don't want to take anything away from J-Dubb. As Stephen A just alluded to, he is a special player. But the Oklahoma City Thunder still can win the NBA championship without him. They're deeper than the Pacific Ocean when it comes to their depth.

Speaker 2:
[34:01] Yet you have San Antonio winning.

Speaker 7:
[34:03] You, I do, but I'm just saying, but would I be surprised at the end of the day if OKC is still at the end of the season, they holding up the trophy? No, that don't mean that I still don't believe in them. Because when you look at their depth, think about this series alone, right? And think about a guy like Aaron Wiggins, who hasn't touched the floor. Aaron Wiggins on the big stage had a couple of 20 pieces last year, right? Think about what they did at the trade deadline to go and get Jared McCain. Jared McCain this season had some big time moments off the bench for them, right? AJ Mitchell. AJ Mitchell is one of the most praised guys around the league. A lot of teams around the league would love to have him. He is a starter. A guy that probably could average 18 to 20 points in this game, and now he comes in. Kason Wallace. So when you think about their depth, forget the bigs. We know what they got in chat and the other Jalen Williams and Isiah Hardenstein. I'm talking about what they have on the perimeter that could make up on the offensive end for J-Dubb. Now when it comes to these hamstring injuries, it is concerning for J-Dubb long term. Think about this, Aaron Gordon last year pulled his hamstring against the thunder, right? He came back into the season with the same hamstring bothering him throughout the course of this whole NBA season. These hamstrings, soft tissue injuries, they're a real thing in the NBA right now. But the Oklahoma City Thunder, yes, they are better with J-Dubb, make no mistake about it, but they're still legit contitial contenders without them.

Speaker 2:
[35:42] They're legit, no doubt about it, and I'm not to imply otherwise. I'm here to, I should, I picked them at the beginning of the season to repeat. But the point that I'm making to you is that J-Dubb is that significant, particularly defensively. And I know what they bring to the table in terms of effort and what have you. But when he's out, that's more pressure that's placed on Shae Gilder's Alexander. They can handle it, that's fine. But when you think about Wim Benyama and the havoc he caused them, when he was on the basketball court, even when J-Dubb was on the basketball court, you have to pay attention to that. When you think about how Jamal Murray is flowing and when him and Jokic is in that two-man game and how nobody seems to be able to stop them, you have to pay attention to that. When you think about Minnesota and Ant-Man, if this brother gets himself together health-wise and he explodes, you just never know. All I'm saying is that, yes, OKC can still win it, but they are a bit more vulnerable with J-Dubb out. No question about it. If your odds are significant, let's say, for example, your odds are at 90% with J-Dubb. It drops to about 70 without him. It's still high, but it drops to about 70 without him.

Speaker 1:
[36:56] So OKC, not the only team in the West that's dealing with an injury to a star player. Let's go now to Victor Wenbanyama. He remains in concussion protocol after leaving game two against the Trail Blazers after taking that hard fall. Our own Shamshirania reported yesterday that Wemby is hopeful to travel with the team to Portland today, but whether he will clear protocol on time to return Friday for game three remains in question. The series tied up at one apiece. How much trouble perk are the Spurs in if Wemby can't play?

Speaker 7:
[37:24] Oh, serious trouble, to be honest, and that's how much of a difference maker he is. James Harden talked about him being a system offensively. Wemby is a system on both ends of the floor, defensively and offensively, right? The Spurs struggled to score, and we saw that towards the end of the fourth quarter in game two. You know why? Because a lot of those shots were contested jump shots. When Wemby is on the floor, he is like Steph Curry in the way of 7-7, not because there's a shooting ability, but because of the attention that he draws, and it brings, you know, for us being a decoy at times, and it opens up easier looks for everybody else. I'm going to tell you this. The Portland Trail Blazers have one of the most underrated fan bases in the playoffs.

Speaker 2:
[38:11] No question.

Speaker 7:
[38:11] And that building is going to be hostile. The one thing, you got to say, Shae, I'm going to leave you with this. The one knock on the San Antonio Spurs this season has been what? Their lack of experience. They fought, and the reason that I believe in them is that because they have home court up to the conference finals. Well, they have lost home court advantage, and now you're going on the road in a tough environment, possibly without your generational player.

Speaker 2:
[38:36] San Antonio is 12-6 this year without Wembee in the lineup. They score six less points a game without him in the lineup, and they give up 10 more points a game without him in the lineup. That's a big deal. Having said all of that, I think De'Aaron Fox and Harrison Barnes are two guys that you got to look at because they've got some play of experience. That was an epic first-round series that De'Aaron Fox played against the Golden State Warriors years ago. He showed what he's made of in postseason play. We know what he can do. And Harrison Barnes is just a champion, so you got to rely on that experience. And Vasal and Castle are two dudes that I am fans of. Make no mistake about it, along with Harper. Ron Harper should be very, very proud of his son and how his son is developing into a really, really nice NBA player. But experience is an issue. And let me transition, because it's rare in the day that we're going to sit up here and talk about the Portland Trail Blazers. Because whenever we talked about them, we talked about Dame Time, Dame Dollar, Damian Lillard. He's out the whole year with his Achilles' tear. He will be back next year. And let me tell you something, when he comes back, he is Damian Lillard. Make no mistake. Damian Lillard, don't you doubt it. Dame Dollar is going to return. And he ain't, there will be no drop off. That brother is something special. This kid, Scoot Henderson. I like this kid a lot. I am a huge fan of this kid. And I watched him on that basketball court. His speed, his ball handling ability, his fearlessness, his willingness to attack. He can make outside shots. He can finish at the basket. He's athletic. He's got a rough rider mentality in him. This brother with Damian Lillard in the back court, excites me. Excites me. And then you got Obj. I mean, this brother can play. What the hell with the Bulls thinking? What the hell with the Washington Wizards thinking? This brother can play. I'm telling y'all right now, I don't have Portland winning this series. I do have them winning game three. I do have them going up because Wimby ain't going to play, NBA ain't going to let him play. Concussion, all of a sudden, you're on that basketball court, they're letting that happen to Wimby. Wimby's not playing game three. I can't see Wimby playing in game three, but I do see them being down to one, and then they say, wait a minute now, we can't have Wimby up now. It's been enough time. Let's get him back in the lineup. So you get back for game four, you even the series game four, go back to San Antonio, tied 2-2, but the Portland Trail Blazers, in terms of excitement, like we look at Tyrese Maxey with EJ. Edgecomb in Philadelphia and fantasize about what that back court is going to look like for years to come. I'm giving y'all a heads up right now. Damian Lillard with Scoot Henderson. Look out.

Speaker 1:
[41:16] Look out.

Speaker 2:
[41:16] It's something special. I'm telling you that right now.

Speaker 1:
[41:19] Three games this year. We saw Victor Weminyama not play against the Blazers. They went 2-1 in those games during the regular season. Coming up, comments from Dallas that could drastically change how Dak and the Cowboys look next year. Don't want to miss Southern Steve's reaction. More First Take after this.

Speaker 2:
[41:35] I reckon you're right.

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 1:
[43:39] The last time we saw the Patriots on the football field was the Super Bowl. Their head coach, a different story. Mike Vrabel has been embroiled in what he calls a personal and private matter after photos surfaced of Vrabel, and now former NFL insider for the Athletic, Diana Rossini at a luxury resort together in Arizona. Vrabel said earlier this week that he's had difficult conversations with family, and yesterday told our Mike Reese that he will step away from the Patriots to receive counseling and plans to be with his family this weekend outside of Massachusetts, meaning he will not be with the team for the third day of the draft on Saturday. So Stephen A., now this becomes a football conversation. Your thoughts on Mike Vrabel.

Speaker 2:
[44:20] Well, it ain't just a football conversation for me, and I'd be anxious to hear what you have to say in a minute because I think your words are more important than mine to be quite honest with you on this particular subject. Here's what I want to say. I think he threw Diana Rossini under the bus because we didn't need to hear all of that from Mike Vrabel. What did he really tell us? You know what I'm saying? I mean, the bottom line is this. Nobody knew anything. We could speculate all we want. We saw pictures of them poolside together, on a bikini, him in a shirtless top. Outside of that, some other video with them holding hands. That's about it. That's all we saw. We don't know anything else beyond that. They're both married with children, and people speculate all they want to, but we didn't know anything. So he could have kept his mouth shut and just went about the business of coaching his football team. Instead, he let stuff dangle for two weeks, and then he comes out with a press conference, and basically said he had to have a difficult conversation with his family. Well, we know what that means. That difficult conversation was with the wife. Let's call it what it is. That's what that conversation was about. Quite frankly, I mean, at that particular moment in time, now you get to speculate even further as to what all of that means. So I thought that had he said anything, had he said nothing, it would have been far less incriminating than what it ends up looking like now. She has already resigned from the athletic, and I'm not here to cast any aspersions on her. She worked here for 10 years. She is, I know her to be a good person. I know her to be an outstanding reporter who worked very, very hard to do the best job that she can possibly do. But there is no question that she put herself in a compromising situation because when you are a reporter covering that particular sport, with stories that you have written emanating out of that particular camp, that team, and you are seen in somewhat of a compromising position with the coach, you're going to be the one that looks bad. He's a football coach, okay? And in the end is that he's not reporting on himself, she's reporting on him. So the professional onus is really on her. Him, he's got a personal problem with his family at home, and clearly he admitted as much why he's going to be there, gone from game day three, but he's going to be there for days one and two, makes no sense to me. If you can be there for days one and two, why can't you be there for day three? And if you're not going to be gone, if you're going to be gone for day three, why be there for day one and two? There are other people within the New England Patriots organization that are equipped to handle that. In the end, it's an unfortunate situation. I think it definitely puts her in a very, very compromising position, unfortunately. And with him, I think that he would have been better served shutting the hell up, keeping his mouth shut and keeping his personal business to his personal stuff and his family. But because he didn't do that, I think he ended up incriminating himself and her even more than when he did if he had just shut up.

Speaker 1:
[47:15] So I will say this, I appreciated Mike Vrabel going to the mic because it took the onus off the players, they would have probably been asked about this situation and why would they have to comment on something that has to do with him and his personal life. I'm in no position to comment on someone's relationship or marriage or whatever. That is their personal business. I will say this though, I don't love the facts. Now, as I said, I feel like it becomes a football situation that Mike Vrabel has to be away from his team on Saturday and day three of the draft. Why? Why can't you be away on Monday? Why does this have to become my business that I know when you're going to counseling? I don't want this to be my business. I didn't want any of this to be my business, quite frankly. So what they do in their personal time is up to them. But now this creates a situation where we have to talk about it on this show. We didn't want to talk about this on this show. So we have to sit here and talk about it now because they told, he told us that he's going to go to counseling on Saturday, day three of the draft. And that's where I feel like this has now become maybe a problem and a little bit of a distraction to his football team.

Speaker 2:
[48:10] And bottom line is this, we can say it any way we want to, but all of us have a responsibility. We have a responsibility to make sure that we uphold ourselves at a very professional standard, particularly as it pertains to the people that we actually cover. Like for example, if she was covering the NFL, and she was found in this kind of compromising position with an NBA coach or a hockey coach, so nobody would care. But when you're covering the NFL and you've created you've broken the stories that she's broken or reported on the stories that she's reported on, and it's directly relatable to the subject at hand, meaning the Patriots organization and its head coach, Mike Vrabel. Now that brings so many things into question. If you remember her statement when she departed from the Athletic, what did she say? She stands by every story that she has written. So all of a sudden, those things become suspect and open for scrutiny and questioning. And that's the unfortunate part of it because the Diana Rossini that I know has been an outstanding reporter and a good person. And we all enjoyed her being here for the 10 years that she was here at this network. I'm not casting any aspersions on her whatsoever. But the predicament she found herself in, all of us have to be careful about making sure that we don't put ourselves in those kind of positions to have our credibility questioned. That's what's going on with her. That's not going on with him. He got a different problem at home. And that's what the why.

Speaker 1:
[49:39] Which is fair and also there should maybe be a little more judgment on that side too. Coming up here on First Take, we got a fresh hour for you. The Knicks in a dogfight against the Hawks. Why the game two loss might have been exactly what they needed. Kenny Smith is going to stop by and join us next. Plus, this time tomorrow, things could look a lot different for Dak Prescott. Why tonight's draft might be the most important one for the Cowboys quarterback. That's next.

Speaker 10:
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