transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Episode 357 of the Pilot the Pilot Podcast takes off now. Did you know that 11% of accidents happen while taxiing? Avemco Insurance Company believes education and awareness make a real difference, which is why they support safety programs and reward pilots who stay sharp. Pilot to Pilot Podcast listeners can save 5%. Call 888-635-4297 or visit avemco.com/4297dashowner for aircraft owners, and visit avemco.com/4297dashnon-owner for non-owners today. Premium credits are subject to underwriting guidelines, including Avemco recognized training and memberships, and the source is Avemco Insurance Company claims data 2023. Again, thank you so much, Avemco, for being a sponsor. Please help the podcast out, give them a call, visit the website, see how much you could save today by switching to Avemco. Aviation, let's talk about progressing as a pilot. One thing I've always admired about Textron Aviation is how they're built for lifelong aviators. They're the only OEM that can support your entire journey with aircraft across more aviation segments than anyone else. I can speak personally on this as I have gone from a 152, a 172, a 182, a 206, a 310, the Caravan, the Grand Caravan, and most recently, the Citation Latitude. So I've seen it work for every mission from training, from aerial survey to flying freight deep into Mexico and all across North America, and then flying essentially all over North and some South America and the Citation Latitude. Move up from a piston to their turboprops like the iconic King Air and the new Beechcraft Denali, or even their jets like the Cessna Citation M2 Gen 3. You can reach every milestone with one trusted partner. And Textron Aviation won't just put you in the airplane and say good luck, they guide you through personalized onboarding, pilot mentorship, type-specific training, and real transition planning. So moving up feels seamless. I know you want to take the next step, and Textron Aviation is built for it. Because if you love to fly, you're meant for what's next. Start planning your next chapter at txtav.com/step up. And remember, a different sky awaits. Fly with Garmin Avionics, then grab your mobile device and make the Garmin Pilot app your cockpit companion. Get advanced functions you'll use before, during, and after every flight, including updating your aircraft's databases and logging engine data. Plan, file, fly, log with Garmin Pilot.

Speaker 2:
[02:32] My name is Evan Davis. I'm a Medevac Pc-12 Pilot in Northwest Alaska, and I live in Wasilla.

Speaker 1:
[02:40] Hey, nation, what is going on? And welcome back to the Pilot to Pilot podcast. I want to go ahead and do something that I haven't done before. And well, there are only two magazines or coffee table books, as we are now calling them. But I want to release one of those audio podcasts for everyone to hear, because I want you to see the quality. I want you to see the type of stories that we have in the magazine. So this one is with my good buddy, Evan Davis. I flew with him in a 182 a long time ago. We've been following each other's careers, calling each other, texting each other. But this story is a very powerful story. It's called How Flying Saved My Life. And I really want you to give it a listen. If you like what you hear, subscribe to the magazine. There's more stories that are equally as great. Well, maybe not equally as great. This one's pretty powerful. But I really want you to hear Evan's story. He recently just bought a 180 near me and he's restoring it. So go follow him as well, because he's going to do some cool stuff. But AME Nation, I don't want to keep you much longer. So any further ado, here's Evan Davis. Evan, what's going on, man? Welcome to the Pilot to Pilot podcast.

Speaker 2:
[03:37] Good morning. What's up, dude? Good afternoon.

Speaker 1:
[03:39] Yeah, for me, afternoon. For you, it's morning. You are in Alaska, which is crazy to say and to hear, because what most people don't know, because our little excursion we went on with the OG influencers of drizzle and stabilizer motion. If you don't know who they are, you missed out on the prime time of Aviation Instagram. That was the peak ever since there. It's been going downhill. Shout out to drizzle and stabilizer motion. But we rent it. No, we didn't rent. Wow, silly me. You had a 182. You came and picked up Christina and I at Bravo Juliet, Worcester, Ohio, and then we flew somewhere else in Ohio. I don't know where we flew, but then we went to go fly gliders. If you're reading the article, I'll probably throw up a picture of that. We have some stupid pictures that are fun. But that was awesome, man. That was what set me on the path of wanting to get an airplane and wanting a 182. Now, I still don't have an airplane because since then, the prices of 182s have just skyrocketed.

Speaker 2:
[04:41] I did sell mine at the peak.

Speaker 1:
[04:43] Yeah, and you texted me, like, hey, dude, I'm getting ready to sell it. Are you interested? I'm like, not at those prices. But you got it, and you sold it, which is amazing. And it was such a great airplane. And what you did with it and the fun you had was really cool. So you did kind of set off a little spark in me for wanting to buy an airplane. And I will one day. I promise. I know I've been saying it for like six years now. Yeah, one day.

Speaker 2:
[05:05] No, you will.

Speaker 1:
[05:06] One day.

Speaker 2:
[05:06] I know you will.

Speaker 1:
[05:07] It's going to happen. But I'm very excited to have you on, man. We've talked about this for a while. We've been texting for what now, like seven years, like that was like six or seven years ago. We always check in with each other every once in a while, and I've told you this on the phone when we talked the other day, that it's really cool to see you living your dream and what you wanted to do. Because I specifically remember, I was still at Priority Air Charter. I was flying a Pc-12. I was helping my friends' kids. We were babysitting for a day. You call me on the phone, you're like, hey man, I really want to fly a Pc-12. How do I do it? We're talking about how you can get to Priority Air Charter. Now, here you are later, and you're doing what you wanted to do. So, I think that's really cool.

Speaker 2:
[05:46] Yeah, it's been quite a journey. Yeah, I started out, well, as a kid, like most kids that end up flying airplanes as adults, it's kind of obsessed with airplanes and everything about them. And, you know, it took a little, you know, I thought I was going to go to the Air Force Academy and be a fighter pilot. My grandfather was a fighter pilot in World War II. And, you know, I kind of got off track for 15, 20 years, something like that. Yeah, I was drinking a lot and doing a lot of things. I shouldn't have been doing and ended up going to get my, I was set up with my instructor and ready to solo. I had about eight or 10 hours in a Cherokee, getting my flight instruction. This was back, I'm 43 now. So this would have been back 13 years ago, something like that. And he was like, hey, you need a medical. I'm like, oh yeah, medical, I've heard of those. He said, you need to get a medical so you can get your official student certificate. And so I go to get a medical and in the questionnaire, there's a lot of questions about, you know, your history, like arrests and drinking habits. And, you know, I had been struggling with wanting to quit for a while and I was like, man, I'm just going to be honest because every time I lied about anything, I got caught.

Speaker 1:
[07:41] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:42] So I was honest about it and filled out the questionnaire, like everyone tells you not to, you know, when you're sending information to the FAA. And it was like a cry for help. And I went out and let it all hang out. And they came back and they said, we're not giving you a medical, you know, you've got a drinking problem. And did he flat out say that to you? Yeah. I mean, my AME, he's an army guy, an army helicopter guy. And he, you know, he's pretty blunt. He said, man, this doesn't look good. Like there's probably almost no way they're going to just give you a medical or, you know, let this slide and let me give you a medical. I can't do it. He said, I can't give you a medical based on this stuff. We have to send it off to Oklahoma city. And we sent the information off and he said, look, if you're willing to do the work, I will basically sponsor you in the HIMS program if they'll do that. And it required some extra steps on my part. I had to get a breathalyzer, like my own personal breathalyzer.

Speaker 1:
[09:03] Geez.

Speaker 2:
[09:06] I had to blow in it three times a day at first, for the first six months. And it takes your picture. And you got to do it. You got to hit your times, you know, like 8 a.m. noon and whatever, 7 p.m. or 10 p.m., whatever you set up. And it was demoralizing, like, but I was motivated, you know, because I wanted to fly airplanes. And so I got the thing and did all the things, and I had to go to AA. I had to get a sponsor. And it was very humbling.

Speaker 1:
[09:44] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:45] And about two months in to my sobriety, I slipped up. I was working in the oil and gas business as a land man. And I think a lot of people have probably seen that new series on Paramount. Yeah, is it pretty accurate? No, I mean, yes and no. I mean, we deal with a lot of problems as land men, but, you know, working between land owners and government and the company. But it was a great job. I loved it. But yeah, where was I going with that?

Speaker 1:
[10:24] Talking about sobriety and a slip up.

Speaker 2:
[10:27] So I was going to Florida, to Naples, Florida, to meet with a land owner to sign a pipeline agreement. And it was a lot of money. He wanted to take me out to dinner and his family. And it was this really nice steak house in Naples. And he bought this $400 bottle of wine. And they poured a glass in front of me. I was like, oh, here we go. This is the situations they talk about. And I was just like, well, can't say no. I can't say no. So I did. I took a couple sips from the wine to blend in and do what I had done for the past 30 years and kind of escape. Like, I don't know how to really, the best way to explain it, but for lack of fortitude, I guess, I just took a few sips. And I was like, oh, I just effed up. Like, this is bad. And I called my girlfriend, I got back to the hotel. I didn't drink, I didn't even drink the whole thing. You know, I was, I didn't get drunk, didn't, you know, I just, I was, I just felt awful. And I should have been happy because this guy was important. You know, we needed him for this pipeline. And went back to the hotel room and called my girlfriend. And I was like, I just messed up, like bad. And this was on Valentine's Day of old days. So, yeah, so my sobriety date is February 15th. And yeah, I've been sober for 13 years now, 12 years.

Speaker 1:
[12:16] Looking, looking back on kind of before you filled out that paperwork, would you have in that time called yourself an alcoholic? Or was it just you recreationally drink or kind of talk about that?

Speaker 2:
[12:26] No, I remember reading a book called, and don't, if you're having some trouble drinking, don't read this book. It's called Almost Alcoholic. And it's basically an excuse, you know, it's like, oh, you're not that bad. No, I was an alcoholic for sure. I mean, I am an alcoholic. I can't ever drink again. Like, it's just I have an addictive personality. I mean, look, we got two airplanes, hangar house. I mean, it's real.

Speaker 1:
[12:55] You go all in.

Speaker 2:
[12:56] Yeah, I go all in, buddy. Like, I don't mess around. But that also what I found out about alcoholism and alcoholics is that they have power. We have power that others don't. And if the power is harnessed, you can literally do anything. Because the way the brain works, done a lot of research about it over the years. And the way the human brain works is if you can, it's like autistic people that are geniuses. I'm not comparing.

Speaker 1:
[13:32] No, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[13:33] But I'm far from a genius.

Speaker 1:
[13:35] I'll say I've met you before. I know you're not a genius.

Speaker 2:
[13:37] I'm kidding. Yeah, not a genius. No. But if you harness it, it's very powerful. And willpower is a lot. Having a good friend group structure in your life. You know, you have to cut people out, right? Like when you're making big changes like that. And my old friends, you know, they might watch this. They're still my friends. I just had to move on, like, because that lifestyle could not be for me anymore, you know? But yeah, I got a sponsor, went to AA, still do AA. It's important and the FAA knows like this was their mandate. Like you have to go to AA and they know it is the only thing that works. 12 step programs for drugs or alcohol. It is the only thing that works. Sheer willpower will not do it. And I had not to get religious, but you have to part of the structure of it. And I'm not even supposed to talk about AA, right? Like that's one of the things you're not supposed to talk about it. But I think it's important for people to hear. You have to turn your will in your life over to a higher power. It could be God, it could be your group, it could be anything, it could be the outdoors. But you have to believe in something bigger than you. And I wasn't ready to go back to the God thing at the time. I wasn't an atheist, but I just wasn't there. And I just agreed to myself that there was something bigger than me out there. And just went with that. I mean, I didn't fight it. A lot of people fight it. Like, I don't believe in God. This isn't for me. I can't do this, you know. And it works, man. You know, look at me, 13 years sober. And I still have, like, someone, you know, a lot of people ask me, well, can you ever drink again? No, I can't, ever. And I'm fine with that. I mean, I have a great life. And I wouldn't wouldn't change a thing.

Speaker 1:
[16:14] When you mentioned how you had to cut friends. I mean, I've seen, I mean, I've seen, like, people go down bad paths. And a lot of times it's the people they surround themselves with. And like you said, those are still your friends. Those are still like you have fond memories with them. Like, I'm sure you can go still hang out with them. But there just comes a point when who you surround yourself with every day, day in and day out, who you text every single day, what you do on Friday nights. It changes a little bit and you can get dragged down into something you don't want to do anymore, which in your case would be go to the bar and drink or just kind of live that lifestyle. But how difficult was it to walk away from that life? Because those are people you had so many experiences with, right? Like you've done so much with them and now to just be able to walk away to improve your life, how difficult was that?

Speaker 2:
[17:06] Oh, it was hard, man. It was something that, it's not natural, you know. You have these people in your life and, you know, people you grow up with or, you know, friends you make, you know, when you're in high school or out of high school. And you know, I was in my, I started, I had my first drink when I was 12 years old. And the first time I got drunk, you know, and that went on until I was 30 or, yeah, 30, 31. And, you know, there was high times and low times, you know, where the drinking was worse than, but dude, I can remember one moment when I lived in central West Virginia, right up against the mountains. And I was a forester for a sawmill. And I was hungover. I had been out at the bar, you know, go to the bar after work, hang out with the people at work, go to the bar, have dinner, drink, drive home, drunk, you know, oftentimes, most of the time. And I was driving to work and I had a pounding headache. And here I am living in the mountains where I wanted to live. And there's a beautiful sunrise and I'm so miserable, I can't even appreciate it. And I remember thinking, man, what is wrong with me? Like, and that was like three year, two, three years before I ended up stopping drinking. And I just knew there was something wrong. And, you know, there was some stuff going on at work at the time that I was just, I knew the people that I was around were not good for me. And, you know, I had a, it was a small company, had a close relationship with my boss and coworkers. And it was, I just knew like, I had to move on. Like it was, this was not who I wanted to be, right? Like I spent my weekends drinking, like, in a beautiful state where there's lots of recreation. And like, I was like, oh, I need to go fishing, you know, I want, I love fishing, I want to go fishing. And I would just get drunk. And like, it was such a waste, like such a waste of 10 years in a spot that I love, still to this day, you know, I love that part of West Virginia and the people. And I just, you know, I was just wasting my life and I knew it. But I didn't know how to get out of it until someone said, you have to go to AA if you want to get better.

Speaker 1:
[20:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:08] And, you know, obviously the rest is history, but, so moving on from people that I cared about, even if they were bad for me, you know, or, you know, I wasn't who I wanted to be around them. And, the initially was hard, but I wanted more out of my life. And you have to make that decision. Like, you have to do it. Like, you just have to do it. And you don't have to be mean about it, but basically it just turned into me slowly working my way out of those relationships. Keeping in touch, right? Like, you don't have to kill people in your life. You don't have to completely cut them off, but...

Speaker 1:
[20:56] Kind of putting limits on them, right?

Speaker 2:
[20:57] Limits, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:58] This is what I can do with this. Yeah, boundaries. Putting boundaries on what you do with that person. It's like, all right, we can still talk. We can still go get lunch. But it's like after like 6 p.m., you know, it's like not going to the bar, not doing this. You guys have fun. Don't drive drunk. Call me, I'll drive, whatever. But like, yeah, there's definitely boundaries and limits to what you need to do. I mean, kudos to you. That's tough. It's not easy. I mean, we all have friends that we've grown up with, right? We've seen them go down a path and it's easy to find yourself with them if you don't have the willpower to say no, because you want to be friends with people. You want to have fun. But I want to kind of transition a little bit to the new, when you got that news, when he was like, all right, man, I cannot give you this. What, even when the FAA came back, was like, we cannot give you your medical. Did you think about just being like, all right, I tried to be a pilot. It's just not for me.

Speaker 2:
[21:47] Oh, for sure. Yeah, initially, they wanted three years of documented sobriety, which means letters from a sponsor, proof that you've been going to meetings, obviously no issues with the law, which I didn't, there was only a few times I got in trouble with the law. But yeah, so I was like, wow, this is not like three years, I want to fly airplanes right now, like I'm ready to do this. And, but I, you know, up until that point, like I had still, like I'd slowed down on drinking a lot, but I was still drinking, right? Until they said this thing. And the, I asked my AME, I said, hey, like, can we do something to make this go faster? You know, like, and that's when he offered the HIMS program to me. And that was huge. I mean, you know, so long and short, I spent the next, rather than three years, the FAA Oklahoma City agreed to do that, to do the one year thing with documentation, with the, they called it Sober Link, the breathalyzer. And they said, yeah, we'll revisit it in a year. They didn't guarantee me a year, but they, so it was like a leap of faith, you know, that they were gonna, that this was gonna happen. I was like, well, that's, you know, a third of the time I'll do it, you know, I'll do it. And, and, dude, the year was, was great. Like, it was hard, you know, I didn't fly much. I was, I tried to stay current with my instructor, you know, and go up and take the plane up. But I saved so much money, like, because I was focused now, like, I wasn't spending on flight training. I was making really good money as a contractor in the oil and gas business. And so I just like banked money, like, and flew my flight simulator, you know, at home rather than like going out, you know, I'd go to my meetings and then I'd go home and sit on my flight, you know, 30 years old on my flight simulator. And but, but it was like something to focus on. The flight simulation was something to focus on. And I flew all the places in my simulator. I wanted to fly in the future, you know. It was great. Like, and I had enough money at the end of it to buy an airplane. So I just focused, you know, I just didn't spend any money at all.

Speaker 1:
[24:33] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[24:34] And bought an airplane at the end of the year.

Speaker 1:
[24:37] I mean, it worked out, right? It seems like when you're, when you're faced with bad news, right? Fight or flight, you can choose two paths. Like you can fight for what you want, or you can just be like, all right, this isn't for me. I'm going to just go on to the next thing, or I'm just meant to be in the oil and gas business. And that's just it. And you just kind of walk away from it. But you chose to fight. And I'm thankful that you did, because one, you're sitting where your dreams are. You're sitting where you wanted to go when you're reading books when you're younger. So it's possible, anyone that's struggling with something, it's possible to overcome, and it's still possible to get to what you want to do. So kudos to you. That's amazing. When you finally got the news, so let's talk about your year into this, you submitted all the paperwork, you're just waiting back for the FAA. Was there a lot of anxiety around that? Was there a lot of like, all right, like a built up, like your blood pressure is getting skyrocketing because you're waiting for them essentially to control your life for the next two more years, right? Like we can either, we're going to give you this piece of paper that says you can solo and this is your student pilot certificate, or you can't do it until we see more progress.

Speaker 2:
[25:40] Well, let me back up one because remember I messed up, right?

Speaker 1:
[25:44] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:45] I drank that one time.

Speaker 1:
[25:47] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:47] And I went back to my sponsor and I said, look, I messed up, do I tell them? Because I was two months in or three months into being sober. And he's a professional. My sponsor, he's in the medical field and he had his certificates taken away from him at one point. And he was like, you have to be honest. This is what this program is, is about being honest. And I'm like, yeah, I know, I'm always, I try to always be honest, right? Like, I was taught that at an early age. So that was freaking scary. Like, I just told him I was gonna be sober and do all these things. And this was before the sober link thing also, right? Like that was in process, like all that, you know, Oklahoma City, you gotta send letters. Like you can't call anybody, you can't email, you know, maybe that's changed, I don't know. But then it was just letters, you had to wait. So I was in this waiting period. And yeah, so I went to my AME, I said, look dude, I messed up. You know, I gotta tell, you know, I know I have to tell him about this. And he's like, yeah, he's like, send the letter. I'm sure it will be fine. Like, he's like, there's a chance that it won't be. But he said, honesty is the most important thing. So I sent it off, and they said, look, thank you for being honest. Don't ever do that again. And yeah, obviously I didn't, but.

Speaker 1:
[27:26] Geez.

Speaker 2:
[27:29] So, sorry, what was your question?

Speaker 1:
[27:31] Oh, I was just talking about kind of the waiting to actually get the okay. We will give this to you.

Speaker 2:
[27:37] So, it was roughly a year. And the way the system that I had set up with them worked was that the monitoring was getting less and less. It was like the first six months, you had to do it three times a day. You know, eight months in, you were doing it twice a day. Then at the end, you could just do it, I think, once a day. So, I like, yeah, the anticipation was building. My flight instructor would call me and say, hey, how's the medical coming? And I think it was, yeah, almost exactly a year after we started, we resubmitted another request via mail, you know? And they came back and said, you've done all the things, you know, you have to keep going AA. And then I had to do like monthly, or yeah, monthly letters for another year. So, I had a special issuance medical at that point. And it may have been a special issuance for two years, I can't remember, but, so yeah, it was all contingent on me staying sober for that three years. And yeah, it was like hitting the lottery, man, when that letter came through. Like, it was like, from someone who didn't really achieve a whole lot, you know, I dropped out of college, barely passed, you know, barely graduated high school. A lot of, not many wins, right, in life at that point. And to get this was like the biggest confidence booster, the biggest like achievement of my, you know, at that point in my life. And, you know, and I had bought, bought my airplane while I was waiting, right, I bought a tail wheel, it was a Zlin Savage Cub, it was like a, anybody who's on Microsoft Flight Simulator knows what a Savage Cub is, but I ended up buying one of those and it was sitting there waiting for me when I got my license. And so, you know, it was like, this was all building and then when it all happened, it was just like the greatest moment of my life. It's like now I can go get my license and become who I want to become, you know. It was just, but it was all part of that, you know, the bigger picture and process.

Speaker 1:
[30:19] When you got that news that you can get your medical, when you got the news that this is a dream that you can pursue, was it, I'm just gonna get my private, I'm gonna do this, or was kind of your mindset, all right, let's see how far we can take it?

Speaker 2:
[30:31] No, it was just my private. That was all I was after. I just wanted to do it for fun, recreation. You know, I had thoughts in the back of my head that maybe it might turn into something one day, but I wasn't, dude, I was a loser, like, up into this point, you know? Like, the thought of becoming a professional pilot was like, you know, mentally, I've grown so much in the past 12 or 13 years, like, I've become an adult, you know? Because with addiction, when you're medicating, self-medicating, you're stunting your emotional growth. So I took a drink at 12 years old, and emotionally, I stayed as a 12-year-old until I was 30-something. You can read books about it if you want to know more. But, so I had a temper, you know, I was angry. But it was like, finally, you know, things were looking up for me, you know? But I was doing it. It was all me, you know? And yeah, it was great to finally be achieving something.

Speaker 1:
[31:52] How did you manage working and flying and kind of maintaining your sobriety when you actually got the ticket? Because I'm sure there's stressful moments with work, there's stressful moments with flying, there's probably problem moments where you're like, I don't know if I can be a pilot because I can't figure out how to do this or that or this. And you're just like, it's not worth it anymore. So how did you manage all that together?

Speaker 2:
[32:12] Well, I had a job, I was a contractor, and I was a contract landman through another agency. So I made my own schedule. They would give you a list of files, people you need to talk to about pipeline projects. And you set it up, it's all on you. And I think at the time I ended up managing the office, the landman office later on. But at the time I was just a contractor and I could make my own schedule. So I could schedule flight lessons in the middle of the day if I wanted to. I had stuff I needed to get done as long as it got done. And most people, when you're meeting with people in their homes, it's in the evenings or in the mornings. So I had a lot of free time. I wouldn't say a lot of free time, but I could make it work and ended up, that worked out great. That part, dude, this was like the most stress free, I wouldn't say stress free, but it was like, I felt so free at that time in my life. Like I'm finally, like I figured this problem out that I've had for 30 years, you know? And dude, I was on cloud nine, like nothing was hard at that point, you know? I just worked. I just worked. I did the work, you know? And whatever needed done, I just, it's like, you just like, how do you eat an elephant, you know? You take one bite at a time. And that is how everything in this aviation game, you know, I'm getting ready. I'm going in two, three weeks to go get my ATP, you know, to do the ATP, CTP course, you know, 13 years later, right? So, and I didn't have, I never had a defined path here, like, opportunities came to me. And when opportunities come, you have to make decisions. And it's easy to sit back and not do the hard thing, not make the decision. And I was so hungry, I just, I turned down a lot of opportunities and found out that opportunities were not for me when I did want them, you know, because I did apply to jobs and tried to do things. And I just factored it in that this is not for me. And that's fine. And I just moved on. Like, don't harp on it. Just, so, you know, back to the question, I did not have a path. I started off with a private certificate. And I was like, oh, you know, there's some guys flying some corporate stuff around. Maybe I should get my commercial. Well, I should get my instrument first, you know, so I can do the instrument commercial check ride at the same time. Or, you know, get signed off as a commercial instrument pilot. So next thing you know, a couple of years later, I start on my instrument. And I'm a weirdo, I guess. I love, the instrument was my favorite, like my favorite rating. And I did that and then went in a year later, did my commercial and started doing some corporate stuff on, on the side between my real job. There's some guys managing airplanes at our local airport for business owners that had airplanes, but no pilots. And yeah, we would do corporate stuff. Flew an Aerostar and Malibu and got a little King Air time. So that was good.

Speaker 1:
[36:04] When would you say your addictive personality really kind of took off with aviation? Was it early on, but why you're still waiting for your medical? Was it when you got your medical and you're doing your training and you're like, all right, like kind of like you said, you are not going to take extra work. You're just going to fly. You're just going to do this.

Speaker 2:
[36:21] Oh, it was, I was obsessed about it, you know, so yeah, back up, you know, as a kid, I was obsessed about it. And then that, that spark, that fire kind of died out, you know, in my teens and twenties and, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, that spark was relit. I told, I told you about it, but I was watching an episode of Mythbusters. Where they, this guy in the Super Cub had his airplane torn apart by a bear, and they duct taped, he duct taped it back together to get home out of the bush, you know? And I was like, oh man, and they flew this little ultralight plane, and they tore all the fabric off of it in this episode, and then wrapped it with duct tape, and flew it duct taped, you know? And I was like, oh, an ultralight, like I could probably afford an ultralight, you know? So I started looking into that, and then it was like, you know, firing, like, oh, well, maybe I should just get a sport pilot license. And then everyone's like, ah, don't do that, just get pilot's license. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I could do that. And dude, from there, it was like, and here, you know, here I am still obsessed with it. So yeah, the addictive personality is a benefit, you know, when you harness it and put it to work.

Speaker 1:
[37:42] Yeah, I bet.

Speaker 2:
[37:44] Yeah, I'm sick with it.

Speaker 1:
[37:47] This is probably the last question, kind of like on the past of with addiction, but if you could tell yourself, you know, let's say time machine, you go travel back to when you're 18 or just like a moment in your life where like you didn't know where you're headed, what would you tell yourself? Like, what would you tell 18 year old Evan where you are now? Or someone right now that might be struggling themselves that was in your shoes, what would you tell them?

Speaker 2:
[38:14] Nothing is going to change until you make the decision. Nobody can, nobody is holding you down. Nobody is making you pick up that drink. Nobody other than you is capable of change. No, nothing, no pill, no, there's no ozempic, maybe, I don't know, maybe there is for drinking or something else, I don't know, but there's no magic pill that's going to change your life. I mean, you're the magic pill. You have to have the willpower. And a lot of times, it's not even willpower. You've got to get out of those situations that you can't say no to. You know? And for most people, it's walking into the room of an AA meeting. I mean, but it could, it may not be addiction for some people. It may be, you know, a bad home life. You know, it may be an abusive spouse or, you know, family member. But you have to pull yourself out of that situation. Like, you cannot stay there. Because nothing, nothing good comes without change. Nothing that is good is easy. Like nothing that's, I shouldn't, maybe you shouldn't say that, but things that are hard are worth it. Always, like always hard work is always pays off. And you may get your teeth kicked in from time to time, but as long as you get back up and keep moving forward, you know, you cannot be stopped.

Speaker 1:
[40:04] Yeah, love it. What's going on guys, it's Justin. You've spent years building your wealth, but how much time have you actually spent figuring out how that turns into income later on? Because building it and actually living off it are two very different things. If you haven't really mapped that out yet, you're not alone. That's exactly what Allworth's latest webinar is focused on. How to turn what you've built into sustainable, tax-efficient income. They walk through strategies like Roth conversions, withdrawal planning, and how to structure your portfolio so it can support your lifestyle over the long term. If you want to clear a picture of what that plan looks like, this is worth your time. You can register at allworthfinancial.com. That's allworthfinancial.com. As you're moving on in your flying career, off-airport gear started, you had a little merge company when I met you for the first time. You're flying the 182. Talk about that experience and how that was going to help lead you to where you wanted to go. Because remember, you had the Idaho video, you're flying west, you're doing some really cool things. But talk about just pursuing this for fun, but also pursuing it and the goal to get to where you are now.

Speaker 2:
[41:11] Yeah, so the Western United States is big open country, big mountains, lots of land, lots of public land. Obviously, everybody knows now, I think that backcountry flying is really taken off. And I had 90 hours in my logbook, and I had started this company off Airport Gear. That's my Instagram handle. And that was something that started while I wasn't flying, too, kind of forgot about that. I was obsessed and I wanted to make some merch that showed airplanes and mountains and all the stuff that I loved. Couldn't find it anywhere, so I made it myself and started selling it. It was something to focus on while I was waiting to get my medical and I've kind of let it go at this point. I haven't really done much with it over the last few years as far as merchandise is concerned, but it was a good thing to focus on and keep me motivated. And I'm like, oh, I got this company. I need to have some street cred. So me being me, I loaded up my airplane with camping gear and launched West. Ninety hours in my logbook into one of the most desolate regions of the lower 48 into the Frank Church. There was a fly in going on out there. And I had been talking to some friends online and I wanted to meet up with them and see the back country and made a video about it. And to this day, it's still my most viewed video. I did it kind of like a documentary style and narrated it, wrote a script and kind of told the story of my journey. And scared the hell out of myself a few times, which I think is probably pretty normal. But I didn't push my skill set. I flew with people that were experienced and I wasn't out there bagging airstrips, trying to land in all these crazy places. I just wanted to experience it and be in that place and experience what this was all about to me. And I documented that and made a video about it. And yeah, I came back and I remember coming back home. And just like, I couldn't believe I just did that. You know, like, I'm living my dream, you know, like this is what I always wanted to do. And it was, you know, it was kind of sad landing back at home. You know, I'm like, man, I just want to go back. And I, you know, always dreamed about Alaska. And ended up visiting here in 2017, had a friend up here and stayed with him. And we did some flying and it was winter. It was like February. It was the worst time to be here.

Speaker 1:
[44:28] Sounds like a terrible time to go visit Alaska.

Speaker 2:
[44:31] And I was honestly, I was like, man, I don't know if I want to live here, man. It's cold. There was a bunch of snow. And I just thought, yeah. So yeah, the Idaho thing was huge. And then I ended up changing jobs. I was still in the land man business, you know, doing, I was working on a project over in Eastern Pennsylvania. And I still had my cub and I had flown it over there. And it was like a six hour drive, six and a half hour drive. And in the cub, it was like three, four hours to get there. And I was like, man, I need another airplane. I need something fast, something that can still do everything I want, but faster. And I really want, still to this day, I still want a 180, a Cessna 180, but 182s were in that, my price range. So I sold the cub and bought the 182. And then I used that 182 to commute back and forth to work. And I ended up flying that thing all over the country. I mean, Maine, Florida, all the Western States, Texas, and that's how I built my time for what was coming, you know, where I'm at now. Yeah, I ended up flying that airplane 600, 700 hours.

Speaker 1:
[45:55] That's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[45:57] Maybe not that much, but getting enough time to get a job, basically, recreationally, you know, flying.

Speaker 1:
[46:05] Fast forwarding a little bit to, so we're talking about the 182, talking about the cub. I want to talk about getting to Alaska, because, like you mentioned before, that was kind of what you always thought and what you thought was calling you for a career where you just needed to be. You mentioned that you went up to Alaska, and in the story, you mentioned that when you were up in Alaska, I don't know if it was the same time, but you actually were, you went to go hang out your resume and you're like, hey, this is me. Like, I want to fly here. I want to fly here. I have heard that that is a good way to get your name out there, because I'm sure they get a bunch of resumes, but showing the initiative of actually showing up, let you stand out and putting a face to a resume really does help. But you also mentioned that there was a gentleman there that was like, all right, well, let's go see how you fly.

Speaker 2:
[46:50] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[46:51] Talk about that.

Speaker 2:
[46:53] So 2017, I came up here, visited with a friend, I was on the fence, because I was in a relationship with a gal who wasn't real interested in being in Alaska. I had come up here and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if this is for me. It was kind of the worst time of year to visit. So all the low time flying jobs that I could find were here. With the amount of time that I had, I needed to come here to fly, to get a job. I thought, well, maybe I can do it seasonally, come up in the summers and fly, which is viable. I mean, that's a thing you could do. But where my relationship was, that wasn't really going to work. So in 2019, or no, 2021, after COVID, after all that garbage that happened with COVID, I decided, I'm sick of all this. I want to see Alaska in a good time of year. And so I rented an RV, or it was an old Dodge truck with a camper on the back of it. In Homer, Alaska, rented that and flew to Homer. And my plan, I brought a bunch of resumes with me. My plan was to drive that truck from Homer to Taokitna and visit places in between and catch up with some friends that I, Instagram friends, you know, that people I'd never met, you know, strangers on the internet, you know. And so I got the truck and was milled around in Homer a little bit. And I was like, Oh, Homer is really nice. And there's some jobs there, you know, some postings. But I didn't drop any resumes off. And I just drove north, went to Anchorage, dropped a few resumes with some operators at Lake Hood. But I didn't know anybody there. Ended up going to Taokitna, you know, because there's a lot of air tours. You know, that's that's the entry level job is an air tour, a pilot, whether it be, you know, glacier viewing, flying to Denali or going and seeing bears from home, you know, fly from Homer to land on the beaches over at Katmai and, you know, bear viewing and, and then in Anchorage, they do a lot of a little bit of everything. They kind of go down to the south to Katmai and up to Taokitna and north to Denali. And, and over the Alaska Range and whatnot. So, but I wasn't really sure where I wanted to be. I liked Homer. So I ended up back at Homer to drop the truck at the end of my trip and stopped in to an air tour operator who also had a mail schedule. And they flew to all the villages around Homer across Kachemak Bay. And I walk in there, my friend, I had a friend that worked there, Brittany. You interviewed her.

Speaker 1:
[49:59] Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[50:00] Yeah. And met up with her and we went to the office and I took my resume in and the chief pilot, I think he was the chief pilot, was in the back and they took my resume back and he saw my address at the top of my resume and he goes, Lol, Ohio. He's like, who is this person? They're like, oh, he's outside if you want to talk to him. And it turns out I owned an Airstrip. I had bought an Airstrip, an old rundown place. And he flight trained there.

Speaker 1:
[50:36] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[50:36] At the place that I bought.

Speaker 1:
[50:38] That's crazy.

Speaker 2:
[50:40] So networking is everything. That was kind of by chance, but basically every job I've gotten has been through networking. So long story short, back to your question, he said, well, do you want to go fly? Like you want to jump in the 206? Because I had a little bit of 206 time. I had flown some skydivers in West Virginia. And of course, I perform at Cessna time in my 182. So we flew to a couple different villages that they fly mail to. One of them was Nan Wallach. And it's this dude, it's like the coolest airstrip. Like it's on a beach or right above a beach. It's a gravel runway and it's like a banana. And you come in over the town and you land on this like turning runway. And it wasn't my greatest landing, but I nailed it. And we went to Seldovia after that. And I was a little concerned flying over all that water in a single engine Cessna, you know, piston Cessna.

Speaker 1:
[51:49] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[51:50] Because you have to cross Catch Mac Bay. And I was like, eh, I don't really love that. But they offered me a job and I said, yeah, I'm not, you know, I'm here, but I'm not living here yet. You know, I need to move and like sell everything, you know, in my mind, sell everything. God, there's so much. I was like, tentatively, yes, I want the job. But this was for next season, you know? So this was in September and they are hiring right now, you know, September, October for their seasonal business next spring. And that's how it goes every year up here. I saw someone asked a question on one of the forums on Facebook about getting a job and like showing up. And it's like, you need to be up here right now to get your job for the spring. So anyway, ended up going back home and I'm like, I was like, oh boy, I got a lot of decisions to make here. I mean, and spring's coming up, you know? And on my way home, I was like, I'm doing it. You know, I was on the plane flying back to Ohio and I was like, man, I'm doing this thing, I'm going to sell everything and figure it out. So in the meantime, I had reached out to my friend who I visited in 2017 and he says, oh yeah, I'm going to buy a 135 operation. I'm like, what? Like his name is Jeremy. I call him an international man of mystery. He's always into something new, something crazy. But he's like, dude, I'm buying this certificate, me and my partner, and it's in the Brooks Range. And, you know, he's like, do you want to fly? Like, don't take that job in Homer. He's like, come work for me. And the Brooks Range is like, it was my first home in Alaska. It ended up, I ended up taking the job. And, you know, the books that I read when I was a kid, were the guy that wrote them was based in the Brooks Range and north of the Arctic Circle. So, it was a no-brainer, flying a 206 on wheels and they had float planes. And, you know, I needed a float rating. And anyway, I ended up there in Bettles of all places, one of the smallest villages in Alaska. So, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[54:18] What was it like? I mean, people think of West Virginia, they think of remote, but I'm guessing that kind of remote is not anywhere in the same world as the remote in the villages that you're talking about in Alaska.

Speaker 2:
[54:29] No. Bettles is north of the Arctic Circle. There's no roads to it. They build an ice road in the winter. With a snowpack, they compact it, they run equipment, dozers and stuff over it. And then the ice freezes on the rivers, and then you drive over the rivers, through the tundra on this ice road to get to Bettles. And that's how they haul a lot of stuff in, you know, to these places. But Bettles is basically any other time of the year's air travel only. And it's right at the base of the Brooks Range, about in the middle of the... The Brooks Range spans from basically the border of Canada all the way to the western coast of Alaska. And it's huge. And it goes in, it continues in to Canada as well. So it's a huge mountain range. It's not the tallest mountain range. I think the highest peak's around 12 or 13,000 feet. But it's cold, a lot of bugs. And it's as remote as you can get. I mean, once you get, you know, they do drive a... The Hall Road goes to the North Slope. But, sorry, my dogs are barking.

Speaker 1:
[55:48] No, you're good.

Speaker 2:
[55:51] They do drive the Hall Road. And you can take, like, you can park it. Sorry, can we stop for one second?

Speaker 1:
[56:00] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no worries.

Speaker 2:
[57:11] All right, sorry about that.

Speaker 1:
[57:14] No, you're good. I had to go to the bathroom, so it wasn't working out perfectly. I was like, yeah, dude, go, go.

Speaker 2:
[57:17] Cool.

Speaker 1:
[57:19] All right. Continue.

Speaker 2:
[57:20] All right, yeah. So, yeah, there's, the Hall Road goes basically from Fairbanks to the North Slope where all the oil field production is. And that's really the only road in that part of the world. And Trump just signed an executive order to authorize this, it's called the Ambler Road, which is a proposed road that goes from the existing Hall Road over about 212 miles to the West, right through, right north of Bettles and through all this pristine country. But I don't want to get into that. That's a sore subject up here.

Speaker 1:
[58:03] I bet.

Speaker 2:
[58:05] So yeah, everything is, all the villages are basically airplane travel.

Speaker 1:
[58:10] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:10] It's remote. I mean, it's the best.

Speaker 1:
[58:15] Was it hard to get adjusted to that? I mean, obviously, we talked about West Virginia, you feel like you're remote there. So you had an idea of what it was like to live remote, right? But I mean, like you said, this is very different. You can't just order Amazon and get things in two days. You can't just do whatever you want. I'm sure even Wi-Fi was a little bit different. Starlink is probably changing the game for you guys, but it's just a way different way to live your life.

Speaker 2:
[58:38] Yeah, we didn't have internet that first summer. We poached some internet off of the neighboring lodge that was next to the airstrip. But yeah, there was no internet, no phones. Being a pilot in Alaska and having an airplane is, you hold the key to the state. And that's why there's so many pilots here, because to access this place either requires a boat or an airplane, and an airplane is the ultimate key to unlocking everything here. So, as pilots, we were like, yeah, I mean, we can go, we can go if we need to, you know? And we would make occasional runs to Fairbanks to get things, and what's now the sister company to the company I was working for has, you know, like 20-something caravans. So, there was caravans coming and going all the time, and if you needed something, you could get it. But, yeah, it was interesting. But being able to travel with an airplane is huge. I mean, it really takes the remote field down a notch, you know?

Speaker 1:
[60:04] Yeah. It just expands your world, right? Like, you're not actually limited to that. You know, all right, if I need to do something, I can go fly. I can get there.

Speaker 2:
[60:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[60:13] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[60:13] If I need to get out of this village, I can jump in the airplane. And that was what was nice is like, I did get to go every, you know, almost every day and get out and do something. And because I was basically an air tour pilot in Bettles. I was taking, you know, they have this thing, the National Parks does called the, I think it's called the National Parks Passport. And so you get all these people, they show up and they want to get their passport stamped, you know, each national park. And so we had a lot of, we call them park collectors. You know, a lot of older people, they're, you know, kind of fulfilling their life dream to, you know, get all the parks, see all the parks. And, you know, we kind of joke around a little bit. It's kind of silly, you know, they're flying, they're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to get in an airplane to set foot in the park for 20 minutes, you know. It's like, you're not really getting the full experience. But we also had people that we would drop and they would float or hunt or, and I would do on-demand charters too. You know, phone company, the phone company needed to go from this village to that village. A lot of remote mining exploration, which is what that road is for, that I was telling you about. So that was a double-edged sword. You know, you're hauling these people out. They're giving you a job, right? This is the crux of being a pilot in Alaska. You love this place that's so remote and so untouched. And then a lot of your work comes from people that want to exploit it. So, you know, it's like, yeah. And these guys are just doing their job. They love the place as much as we do, you know? But it's kind of a double-edged sword when it comes to development. But it does provide a lot of work for us as pilots.

Speaker 1:
[62:21] Can you talk about what it's actually like flying? Like weather. Like, I mean, any person that's in the lower 48, you know, they're always told Alaska is just different. Like weather changes faster, things get worse a little bit quicker. The overall winds are just insane all the time. Can you talk about just how long it took you to feel comfortable, if you even feel comfortable with some of the conditions that are up there and just kind of talk a little bit and give some insight on that?

Speaker 2:
[62:49] After, you know, three years of it, I'm getting more comfortable with it. You know, you always have to, every good pilot knows that you've got to be humble and you've got to always appreciate the weather and like what is capable of. And I would say the main difference here, if I could sum it up quickly, is that in the lower 48, weather moves differently. It's, I feel it's way more predictable, you know, like we have fronts that come from west to east or from southwest to northeast or, you know, and then you get the occasional hurricane that comes in on the east coast and kind of disrupts that flow of weather moving from one side of the country to the other. And here, man, it's like with the polar region, the way weather moves is so weird. Like, I remember looking at the weather map one day and there was like eight low pressure systems over Alaska. Like, just like, just because there was like no wind, no fronts coming through to move this stuff out or high pressure systems. And things just move differently here. There's a lot of mountains and most of the time, there's a lot of flat too. Like Alaska is probably more flat than it is mountainous, at least the, you know, the northern part of Alaska. Basically from the Alaska range north, it's like flat with little bits of foothills and then it, not big mountains and then you get to the Brooks Range. And then it's just like a wall of mountains. And then it's the, you know, the Arctic Slope, which is just tapers off from the mountains down to sea level. But yeah, weather just moves differently here. It does change fast. It's very extreme. You know, Fairbanks, where I worked for a year was, or a year and a half was very extreme. It would be 90 degrees in the summer and minus 50 in the winter. Fairbanks doesn't get super windy, but where I'm at now on the west coast of Alaska, it can get very windy and stay windy for days. You know, 40 plus knots. I work, my base is currently in Cotsibiu and they have an evacuation order right now. We've moved all of our airplanes, four airplanes, or sorry, three airplanes and, you know, 20 people because of this typhoon moved up in the Bering Sea and it is pushing all the water inland and they're flooding.

Speaker 1:
[65:51] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[65:52] So the airport's closed right now and, you know, 40, 50 knot winds pushing all that water on land. So am I comfortable with it? I think you adjust to it, but with respect, right? Like you have to respect it and, you know, I'm old enough, I feel like I'm old enough and wise enough that I have no problem saying no to stuff now, especially when it comes to aviation and being up here, you see a lot of stuff and things that happen and crashes and, you know, poor decision-making and, aviation's so vital to life here in these villages that you have to respect it. I mean, you have to be able to say no. And, you know, I fly Medevac now, so saying no is hard sometimes because people need us. But if we don't make it to get them, it does them no good. It doesn't do us any good. And we have to be available for the next person too. You know, like, okay, people need us. The weather's bad. Let's just wait. Because most of the time, if you wait, and it depends on the situation, you know, as far as how critical, we don't know how critical the patient is, right, when we make our decision. That's very important, you know, to the, you know, sanctity of the mission. But yeah, it's hard to say no, but sometimes you just have to.

Speaker 1:
[67:40] Yeah, no, you definitely do. It's essential, and I always say, learning how to say no in aviation is one of the greatest things you can ever learn. I mean, it's just, you gotta learn to stick up for yourself, and you gotta understand what you're comfortable with. Now, there also is a time and a place for maybe you to realize that you're capable of doing more, you're capable of flying into more, but that could be with someone that's more seasoned. It's like someone that's new pops up, be like, all right, well, if you're not necessarily comfortable, or hey, you haven't done this before, we're gonna go throw you with Evan, and Evan's gonna kinda walk you through how this happens. So when you do it, you can feel more comfortable. So there is a time and a place for a fair no, and there's also a time and a place for like, I don't feel comfortable, but I feel like this is everyday life, and I need to learn how to be comfortable doing this.

Speaker 2:
[68:23] Yes, absolutely. And we fly with two pilots in the Pc-12. And at first, because I've been doing single pilot stuff up until this job, and at first I was like, I don't know if I'm going to like that.

Speaker 1:
[68:37] I don't need someone else.

Speaker 2:
[68:38] I don't need someone else. But having two people in the cockpit is awesome. It's a game changer. And also we're taking lower time guys that are sitting in the right, and girls, that are sitting in the right seat, and they are seeing the decisions we're making as PICs. And these people are going to be, they may be low time, but they're getting to see things that a lot of people never see in their aviation career. And the way the decisions are made, and how we handle situations at airports when we land. Like ice is a huge problem on the runways in the winter time. And wind, you get a 20-knot crosswind in a Pc-12, and the runway is icy. I mean, that could be a no-go, depending on how bad, how icy it is. Yeah, I mean, 20 knots in a Pc-12 is a lot anyway. But you throw wind or ice into that, it's just a game changer. Yeah, it could be clear and blowing, but you may not go because of that.

Speaker 1:
[69:49] Do you have a, like, I'm guessing, you know how everyone has a story, right? They have a weather story. Do you have like a welcome to Alaska story? Could be a moment where you're like, you're in the plane, you're like, I should not be here, and like how fast it might have happened.

Speaker 2:
[70:08] Probably when I was doing air tours. I think one of my favorite stories is, I had been flying all summer doing these park tours, and it's a long flight. Like it's two hours in a 206 to get from one park to the other. We're doing Gates of the Arctic National Park, and then Cobuck Valley National Park. And in Cobuck Valley, we land on these sand dunes. Yeah, sand dunes in the middle of the tundra in Alaska. And we have to cross a wide, and there's no weather reporting there. I mean, there just isn't. It's Bettles with a weather station, and then the next one is the village of Cobuck, and it's got an AWOS, and there's nothing in between. And there's a continental divide that runs through the, you know, from point A to point B, you cross the continental divide. And what I learned was, like, if weather is stacking up on the divide, you've got two options to get through, to get, you know, there's, like, there's mountains, and then there's a valley, and then there's a smaller set of mountains, and then there's the Cobuck Valley. And you can usually get through one of the two valleys. And if it's stacked up, you're not getting through. And yeah, I kind of got into a little, little pickle when I figured all this out, and had to turn around in pretty low viz, low level. And yeah, obviously I turned around and I made it, but it's like, I think what I learned through that was the conditions were okay when I left, and then it just kept getting lower and lower and lower. And, you know, next thing you know, I'm 500 feet off the treetops and which is legal, right? That's minimum. And in Alaska. And it just, it was, it was like an aha moment. Like, man, you just got to just turn it, like it was getting worse. Why did you keep going? You know? And, but I think everybody has, probably has that same story. But my favorite was after a season of flying, there was this front coming in and it was bad. And I knew the winds were bad and it was going to be turbulent the whole way. Like, and this guy had his family with him. It was like six of them and I could only take five in the 206. So four kids and the dad, right? And he was like, oh, we've flown all over Alaska in airplanes. He's like, I was like, dude, it's going to be turbulent. It's not going to be fun. I was like, it's probably plugged up at the Continental Divide and we probably won't get through. And I was like, let's just wait. Let's just wait a little bit. So we waited till like noon and he was like, well, what do you think? And I was like, well, we can try it, but it's not going to be fun for anyone. He's like, yeah, let's work. Good. Let's try it. Man, 15 minutes in that guy was green and puking. And his kids, his poor kids were just like, just they had their heads down and I was like, I told you, I told you, we talked about it. Yeah. But it was nothing dangerous. It was just rough. And yeah, he wasn't getting back in an airplane for a while after that.

Speaker 1:
[73:42] But do you, do you think you could ever move back to the lower 48 or like once you experience what you're experiencing, once you're doing the flying that you're doing, is it just not comparable and not possible?

Speaker 2:
[73:55] No, I think I could. I love it here. But I also love the rest of the United States, you know, and I grew up down there. So no, we've talked about it. You know, we built, built this house and you know, obviously it's a hangar house and it's great. But there'll come a time I think when we both want to get out. And yeah, I totally would move back. But I think I would also try and keep a place here of some sort because it's just too, it's too good. It's hard living up here, man. It's dark. You know, I work in Cotsbue two weeks a month and for four months it's dark, man. Like, you know, you're not getting any vitamin D and it's, it takes a toll on you, especially work in night shift because we do, you know, split shifts or 24-hour availability. And last winter, you know, spending the whole winter up there, I did extra night shifts for some reason. There was a scheduling deal where we had to get new pilots online and one of them flying during the day. So I ended up taking some extra night shifts and yeah, there was, like the darkness is a real thing and it's cold and it's windy and you get, you know, there is twilight and you know, in that region, but the sun, you know, it just kind of, it kind of comes up like this and then it goes back down. And so you get like, the sun's over here, you get like twilight, twilight, the sun just peaks above the horizon and then it just goes away. So for four hours when I'm sleeping is when you get a little bit of light and then you wake up and it's dark and it's hard. I mean, anybody that says it isn't might be probably lying.

Speaker 1:
[75:49] No, yeah, it takes a toll on everyone. That, yeah, I mean, this is on a much smaller level, but when I went to Ohio State for college and just how much darker it is and how much more, how many more clouds were in Ohio versus North Carolina, it's like, yeah, it's real. Like vitamin D deficiency, seasonal depression, it can be a real thing when you're not used to it, right? Then you acclimate and it gets a little bit better I'm sure. It's just the way of life. It just is what it is. But that is on a whole different level and just something that I can't comprehend. Like just seeing the sun just like barely come up. Oh, hey, I'm here. Okay, I'm gone. It's almost like a tease. It's like, I wish you just wouldn't come out because then I know what I'm missing. It's like, how dare you?

Speaker 2:
[76:30] Getting out is important.

Speaker 1:
[76:32] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[76:32] Getting out is important. For sure, 100%. Like Hawaii or Southern US.

Speaker 1:
[76:36] Lots of sunshine.

Speaker 2:
[76:37] Sunshine.

Speaker 1:
[76:38] Yeah, lots of sunshine. In Ohio it was nice because I was a flying airplane. I had the ability to go see the sun because it was up. It was just under that little like 3,000 foot layer of small clouds. But you poke through, be like, all right, cool, sun. All right, go back.

Speaker 2:
[76:52] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[76:54] To wrap this up because there's obviously more in the written article as well. But for someone that is reading this, for someone that had the same idea that you have had of, Alaska is where I want to be, Alaska is where I want to fly, or this is what I want to do. What's your advice to them? For making that jump, for making that move?

Speaker 2:
[77:18] It would be, you know, get whatever experience you can in the type of airplane that you're probably going to be flying, which in most cases, a starting job up here is in a 206 or 207 or a Saratoga single engine piston airplane. Get as much experience as you can in that type of airplane, you know, where you're at. And, you know, obviously you need to be here to get a job. I think showing up and letting people see you and know what kind of, because one of the big things about living and working up here is how you live with people. Because we live in a village two weeks out of the month with our co-workers. And if you can't get along with anyone, it could be a problem, because there are all different types of people here. And I would say prepare yourself mentally for that. Obviously the weather is what it is. I mean, it's Alaska. It does crazy stuff. And, you know, you got to be prepared for that. But showing up, resume in hand, this is who I am. This is like, you have to want it. You have to want to be here. And you may get here and tour around a little bit. I would recommend doing what I did and just checking the place out first and make sure this is what you want. Because a lot of people, I think, find out, they're like, I want to go to Alaska and fly airplanes. And then they get here. And it's like, ugh, this is not what I was expecting. And then, you know, to be cooped up in a house for two weeks at a time. Or sometimes people, you know, a lot of the tour operators have you there for the whole summer. And you've got to be able to live with other people and, you know, cohabitate with people you may not like. And, but most everybody that's here, what I've found, does want to be here. And we're all in it together. I think there's that sense of, you know, kinship, right? Like, we're all in this together.

Speaker 1:
[79:37] Sounds like a team, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[79:38] Yeah, it's very, it can be very, we have a great group of people that I work with. And, you know, it's a very, yeah, cohesive group. Yeah, basically, if you can't get along, you don't, you're gone. It's just, we, it's so hard enough. Like, you know, we don't need that in our lives.

Speaker 1:
[80:00] And the thing about that is that I honestly think that's like standard in aviation. Like if you just can't get along with people, you're not going to work out. So you really got to check your attitude and you really got to be a team player. And you just need to, I mean, honestly, just be someone that you can have, want to still go out to dinner with after an eight hour or duty day or eight hour flight, you know?

Speaker 2:
[80:22] I think I've seen some people online that are like, oh, I just can't get a job anywhere, you know? And I think a lot of that is they need to look internally, right? Like, look at, who, I said, all these other people that I can't get along with, like, take a look in the mirror, please, for our sake, take a look in the mirror. Maybe you're the problem.

Speaker 1:
[80:47] Yeah, maybe, I mean.

Speaker 2:
[80:48] Maybe you can't get a job because it's you. And it has nothing to do with, honestly, a lot of times you can have great pilots, awesome sticks, and they can't get along with people. Nobody wants to work with them, so they hit the road.

Speaker 1:
[81:01] Yeah. I actually lied. One more question. What makes a good Alaskan bush pilot? What are some traits?

Speaker 2:
[81:11] Well, I don't know. I'm not a bush pilot.

Speaker 1:
[81:14] What makes a good Alaskan pilot?

Speaker 2:
[81:16] All right.

Speaker 1:
[81:20] You guys are all bush pilots to me, by the way. Anyone in Alaska is a bush pilot to me. I know I'm probably got the truthers out there.

Speaker 2:
[81:26] Well, if you ask us, all the bush pilots are dead, or almost dead, the real bush pilots.

Speaker 1:
[81:31] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[81:32] True, we do fly to the bush and we work in the bush, but the pioneers are all but gone. But I would say that... What is it? So the question was, what is a trait?

Speaker 1:
[81:47] What are some traits that make good Alaskan pilots? Since I can't say Alaskan bush pilots.

Speaker 2:
[81:51] I would say a sense of adventure. Someone that most all of us have a sense of adventure. In our blood. You have to enjoy the suck, I guess. I don't know. Like...

Speaker 1:
[82:07] Embrace the suck.

Speaker 2:
[82:08] Embrace the suck. Like, it's... It's challenging. All of aviation is challenging. There's always some challenge, some new challenge, no matter where you're at. The challenges here are different. A lot of it's mental, you know? I think it is mindset, more than anything. And I think we all love it. Like, I really think, like... Coming up with solutions to weird problems is one of the most fun parts about it. Like, you know, you always hear about bush fixes, you know? How things get fixed when you have nothing, you know? Like, the guy duct taping his airplane, you know? It's like, it's not legal, but the guy needed to get out of there and that's what he did. I don't know if the guy got in trouble for it or not, but probably, they probably would have said, well, you should have hooked it to a helicopter and flown it out. Anyway, I think just having that pioneering spirit and sense of adventure and, yeah, just being able to work in austere environments and I heard something actually about a lot of the contract pilots in Afghanistan, a lot of the commercial guys that went over to do contract work. This was told to me by a guy that worked over there. He said that anytime someone from Alaska applied on their resume, they knew that they would be a good fit because working in a war zone in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever, they knew that the people that had experience flying here would be a good fit because it's hard here. It can be hard here. And obviously working in a war zone is hard and austere. And I thought that was pretty cool, like a pretty cool testament to what it is we're doing. We're not heroes, right? We're just a bunch of crazy people that enjoy this kind of thing. You know, but it's, yeah, you just have to want to be here.

Speaker 1:
[84:29] Yeah. Well, Evan, I appreciate it, man. Long time in the making. The Evan Davis story.

Speaker 2:
[84:34] Well, I finally feel like I might be worthy of a podcast now. I've got a little bit of a commercial experience now. I'm still learning every day, man. It's a very humbling profession.

Speaker 1:
[84:46] Absolutely. But I appreciate your time. I think this is gonna be a well-received story because I've never really said, told anything or had the opportunity to share a story like yours. So I'm very excited for it. And if you want to hear more about Evan, if you want to follow Evan, do you want, I don't know, do you want people to follow you, but whatever, if you want to plug your Instagram, maybe you can bring your merch back. Alaskan non-Bush Pilot.

Speaker 2:
[85:12] Yeah, right. Yeah, my Instagram is OffAirportGear, and I have a website for the merch, but it's kind of, it's in a state of flux right now, so I don't, it's not active at the moment, but yeah, I don't know what will happen with that. Maybe it will turn into something different, but yeah, it's, that's me.

Speaker 1:
[85:37] Also, if anyone has seen Mindy's airplane, he was the OG. See, all your colors.

Speaker 2:
[85:45] Oh, Mindy, yeah, Shmendy, yeah. It's not the same airplane. Everybody thought it was the same airplane.

Speaker 1:
[85:51] But you are the OG. You had that first.

Speaker 2:
[85:53] Well, I'm not.

Speaker 1:
[85:55] I'll say it.

Speaker 2:
[85:56] Shmendy's a little more popular than I am, but no. No, we texted back and forth about that, and we got a kick out of it. Everybody thought it was my airplane.

Speaker 1:
[86:06] Yeah, man. Well, cool. Evan, I appreciate your time. I hope you're doing some fun in Alaska, and I hope you're going to have a great day, man. I can't wait for this to come out, and I'll make sure to send you a printing copy of the magazine once that's released as well. So I appreciate you.

Speaker 2:
[86:18] Sounds good. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to see you and talk to you again, buddy.

Speaker 1:
[86:22] That's a wrap on today's podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. If you haven't checked out the magazine, or if you have and you know friends that would like it, just send it to them. I think they'd love it. When I mean send it to them, send them the website. Just be like, hey dude, this is the best magazine. Cancel like other subscriptions and make sure you follow this one. The Ava Nation, thank you so much. I appreciate it. As always, happy flying. The Pilot to Pilot Podcast is brought to you by Ground School from the Finer Points, the indispensable training app for new and experienced pilots. Visit learnthefinerpoints.com/justin to save 10% off your first year.