transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] Bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation. It's not even going to be a question. It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference. It'll make it very scary, the rounding up of the energy sources and sort of reprioritizing them. They will ration it for whatever is the most beneficial. That's up against it because Bitcoin's security policy is energy. You get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to. Bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to turn these machines on and off. Everything becomes a power generator because that's what it needs to survive. We have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way. The layers of Earth like as in humanity, I don't think they're going to hold very long. It just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable.

Speaker 2:
[00:59] Yo.

Speaker 3:
[00:59] How's it going?

Speaker 2:
[01:00] Hey, what's up?

Speaker 3:
[01:02] How are you, man?

Speaker 2:
[01:04] Dude, awesome. What's the latest?

Speaker 3:
[01:07] Just getting ready to go to Vegas.

Speaker 2:
[01:10] Oh, my God.

Speaker 3:
[01:10] Which is going to be fun. Huge. I leave on Friday morning and meet up with Pete in LA and then we're driving over to Vegas.

Speaker 2:
[01:19] Oh, man. You guys all have a blast.

Speaker 1:
[01:22] I know.

Speaker 3:
[01:22] We're back on the road together again.

Speaker 1:
[01:24] Oh, my God.

Speaker 2:
[01:25] How good.

Speaker 1:
[01:26] Man, his show's been... By the way, you know what's crazy?

Speaker 2:
[01:29] Heaps of Pete's guests that I've watched.

Speaker 1:
[01:32] I'm like, I didn't realize who they were when I was watching, but now I'm like, oh, that's the candidate for like Rupert Lowe or whatever his name is.

Speaker 2:
[01:43] That guy.

Speaker 3:
[01:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[01:45] I watched heaps of his stuff, but I was like, where have I seen this dude before? And I was like, oh, my God, Pete's had him on his show.

Speaker 2:
[01:51] Unreal.

Speaker 3:
[01:54] I mean, I think he's going to win the next election. It's pretty crazy. And he's like friends with him. He's texting him privately. They're like strategizing together. It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1:
[02:04] I mean, I think Pete's got a pretty good voice in terms of opinion on the strategy for the zeitgeist. Because he's so in tune. He sees all sides of everything. But I find that the Bitcoiners coming from Bitcoin land, they see it pretty deep down the stack almost. They're really critical thinking-y, a lot more than most of the traditional worlds anyway. So you get off the ground faster with Bitcoiners typically, in terms of them trying to figure out why this system is so cooked or not cooked or should be cooked. I just realized I don't have my charger. Can I have one sec, Danny? Sorry. I'll just get a quick look at my charger. Hey, I'm literally eating all of our lunches. I'm like, it is, you have no idea how many friends from all walks of life, like lawyers, executives, advertising, all the food chain all the way up, all the way down. It's like insane.

Speaker 3:
[03:11] How much is this wigging you out? Because you're a crazy guy. I can imagine you've been going down some rabbit holes with it.

Speaker 2:
[03:17] I don't know where it's going to go. I don't. Okay, so here's what's going to happen.

Speaker 1:
[03:22] We're going to have 20 percent unemployment, call it 15 to 20 percent. Then you've got mixed that with 14 to 16 percent inflation, being generous, maybe it's 10, maybe it's 12, but it's double digits. So the problem is like they're not losing their job like, oh damn, I've got to go figure out where to work next. It's like, no, no, no, monster.com. They've removed that job description. Like you can't list a job for that anymore. It's like saying, oh, I wonder if I can list a job description for Candlestick Maker.

Speaker 2:
[03:55] We don't have those anymore because we don't use candles anymore. We use electricity.

Speaker 1:
[04:00] And it's like, it's as transformative as that in my opinion. It's going to be like, okay, we used to have refrigeration techniques. Now we have electricity and that's a fridge. And there's all these things. Sewing machine, job gone. Candlestick Maker, job gone. Shoeshiner, job gone. But we sort of thought, oh yeah, our jobs are really hard to take. It's like, no, dude, this thing's just going to scoop it up like lawyers and stuff. Because people, and as you get this price pinch, right? As money becomes harder, people need to resort to more friendly options. What's more economically friendly? And so people used to hire an engineer for, let's say, 100 grand. Once upon a year, 10, 15 years ago, hire an engineer, front-end dev, 100 grand, 150 grand. And then people went, well, that's too expensive. I don't have enough money and things are getting more expensive. So people went to Odesk, which turned into Upwork, freelancer.com, and they would get an Indian software engineer who is probably asking for $8 to $12 an hour or $9 an hour. So basically 10K a year. So that 100K a year got compressed to 10K a year. Now India has built basically for the past 15 years, their entire net export has probably been like talent, like, you know, computer science basically.

Speaker 2:
[05:21] I don't know what's going to happen to them.

Speaker 1:
[05:22] That whole world of freelancers in Vietnam, Philippines and all that stuff, these virtual assistants or front-end engineers and stuff, it's like, I don't know, what do you do? And then it's like, imagine if you and I just went to uni and we just finished a computer science degree course, or in year four.

Speaker 3:
[05:41] That's the scariest thing.

Speaker 1:
[05:42] 275 grand, unforgivable from bankruptcy. You still owe me that money, student loans. It's like...

Speaker 3:
[05:49] Unforgivable for now.

Speaker 2:
[05:50] It's like, oh my God, I'd be so worried. And what do you do to pick? And it's like, I saw...

Speaker 1:
[05:58] Let's say, okay, so you go the plumber route, right? Everyone's a plumber now, or they should become a plumber. That's like the most like safe from the AI monster. But I saw this video of, it was a tennis robot playing like a high school top tier tennis player. And it was only trained on like four hours of data. And the guy was like, what the fuck was that? Like who was that tennis player? And how long has that been? It's like, oh, that was just four hours. It's like, imagine you've got a warehouse data center dedicated solely to that. Dude, plumber's a toast. And what will probably happen is, because everything's so expensive, we're going to redesign how we build houses. So we're not going to use the same plumbing techniques. We're going to use what could a robotic plumber get access to? Okay, let's build for that guy to be the one maintaining it. And I think you're going to see just how like we don't have chimneys today, right? Like we don't, I mean, most places don't have chimneys because most places don't have fireplaces anymore. We don't have chimneys. It's sort of the same vibe. There's going to be sort of this relic of house design or styling or interiors that we sort of don't. I don't know. It's just a thing of the past. Like it's crazy. I've no clue how we don't end up in like civil war. This is so scary. Oh, God.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[11:26] It's like mass consolidation of basically information. It's almost like you now have three funnels of information and everything else is pretty much like not really vetted. Like people say, oh, I chat JVT, Claude, whatever. Like some specifics, but most of the time, we're only going to get lazier and lazier. Oh, Grock is this true? Like Grock is this true? That's already a thing. It's like, I can't even be bothered Googling it. I'm not checking anything. And you know, like we're all getting worse at that. Like in general, we're getting less fit and healthy, and we're getting less mentally fit and healthy. Because we're so used to, like when you, let's say like, let's say you're looking at content online. If you have to look at a piece of content, it used to be like, oh, cool. There's a dog riding a, you know, a go-kart or whatever. And now it's like, is that true? Is it not true? Is that AI or is it not AI? Is it propaganda? Is it not propaganda? Is this a left leaning side or a right leaning? And the next thing you know, you've gone through like 12 different decisions before you've even gone, cool, that content's cool. Like to digest it is exhausting. So people now...

Speaker 3:
[12:34] And that's only going to get worse.

Speaker 2:
[12:35] It's only going to get worse.

Speaker 1:
[12:36] And so, and not only that is as our dopamine keeps getting stimulated, like harder and harder, it makes the level of give a fuck. So like grok, is this true? Is like the maximalist, like lazy answer. And it's like, we're only trending towards that more and more, which is so scary because we're basically getting set up for an environment that needs us to have maximum human skill. And we have literally eroded almost all of it. And the motivations to actually do stuff, like putting a shovel in the dirt right now, that's a very far thought for many, many people, because we're just not used to having dirt under our fingernails anymore and all that kind of stuff. But it's like, that's where the puck is going almost. Hardware, concrete cement. Look at the Bitcoin miners, Iris and stuff like that. I was saying to you yesterday, they are in this, almost like, they're the bouncer at the pearly gates. Which way do you want your energy? Do you want it to Bitcoin, or do you want it to AI and information? So it's money or information, but it's only going to two places. One or the other, you pick. And now when you think about that, the scary part about all this is, is that, from Bitcoin's perspective, there's a scary part, which it means that Bitcoin becomes sort of not the bell of the ball when it comes to energy. And so if we don't have Bitcoin as the bell of the ball for energy, then it'd be like, look, Bitcoin, that's cool. We're not as a species, we're not dependent on you enough. But we have the government that now has contracts with AI infrastructure and blah, blah, blah. We've had 40 of the top 200 companies on the ASX or the stock market. They've changed their entire company infrastructure based around this. So when it comes to rationing the energy, it's not even going to be a debate. It's not even going to be a question. It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference. If you want to mind anything, if you want to contribute your energy towards something that's not AI, which is now almost deemed like a public necessity, it'll get some sort of enshrined status. Then that'll come at a cost or you'll be paying a premium per kilowatt hour or something like that. But it will make it very scary, the rounding up of the energy sources and reprioritizing them. Just like they did with water, you can't hose, so in Australia, you can't hose your car in your driveway because of water restrictions. And people are like, oh, there's no way they can't do any. They're not going to restrict precious bet. Yeah, they're the government, it's their house. We are in their house, it's not my house, it's not our house, it's their house. And so unless we understand that, it's like they will ration it for whatever is the most beneficial, both to them and to the, I suppose, the populace. But generally speaking, that's up against it, because Bitcoin security policy is energy. And it's like, now if that starts getting eroded a little bit, and the big miners start getting pushed out, that has a positive effect as well, where big miners being broken up or, hey, you know, marathon, you can't have five hydroelectric dams, we need three of them running AI stuff for open AI or whatever. That breaks up the big consolidation of mining in a way, to a degree. I actually think you said this to me.

Speaker 3:
[16:04] Well, yeah, that was going to be one of the points I was going to make. I think there's negative consequence to this potentially, but I see some pretty big positives. Mining centralization has been an issue for a long time. Pools is the most obvious one. But then, really, we had a handful of public companies in the US that control a huge amount of hash rate. And I think almost all of them, if not all of them, are now doing something in AI. And some of them, like Iron, have moved, they said they want to get away from Bitcoin mining entirely and just focus on AI. I think there's positives that can come out of this. But then it gets to the question of like, how much hash rate do we need? And I don't know if anyone has an exact answer for that. But more than the other guy. I think breaking up these huge... Yeah, exactly. That's kind of the only answer. But I think breaking up the pubcos to some degree might be really bullish.

Speaker 1:
[16:52] I think that's a really good point. And I think you were the first person to explain this side of it to me once upon a time. Because someone said it's a benefit to have these guys splitting their time and attention, these big guys that get to that status of like Iron or whatever, where they go, you know what, we'll do a bit of AI. Because it's going to drop their ownership, relative ownership of the Bitcoin network down. And I think that trend in general is going to be a great benefit for the network's resilience, obviously. But it just definitely means there's a couple of like lumpy patches that are probably going to go through that. But you're seeing now, like all the, all like literally, right, the one thing cock blocking, Zach, Sergey Brin, and all, and Elon and stuff, is energy. They can't build another data center if they want, because they don't know where the fuck's the energy coming from. That's why I think a lot of the Bitcoin miners, they're like these, they're the gurus at finding stranded energy, basically. They're like your friend that knows where the bargains are, that's the guy, that's what they are like. They know where to find energy. And so for them, they're getting a lot of investments from people like Google and Meta and stuff, because Meta is basically, Google is sort of like, hey, how's the meeting? Yeah, man, yeah, where was the energy? I was in Kenya, right?

Speaker 2:
[18:10] I was in Kenya.

Speaker 1:
[18:11] Yeah, that's kind of literally to the point of what they're almost trying to do.

Speaker 2:
[18:15] They're just like, hey, bro, got any more of that energy?

Speaker 1:
[18:18] Like, have you got any more megawatts for me? Yeah, and we haven't even felt the thirst yet, like how aggressive it'll get. Like, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is wild.

Speaker 3:
[18:31] Yeah, I mean, that's going to get nuts. Because I'm sure that there's like a ton of hype in the data center play at the moment. Like, I think that's natural. But over the next few years, like, I can't see it going anyway but up. And the cool thing from a Bitcoin perspective, and I could be wrong on this, but just the way I look at it is, I think a lot of these AI data centers are going to need some amount of Bitcoin mining in them to help balance their load. Like, being flexible load within that stack is going to be super useful. And if we have more and more of these data centers popping up, hash rate might grow through this.

Speaker 1:
[19:03] It definitely could because it will be the residue or the offcuts of the big AI engine operating and that'll develop and form its own peak and trough times, like an energy grid, right? We know that it's going to be more energy usage at night time than daytime. In the same way, we might find, oh, these guys use heaps of energy between nine to five, like literally the working. Who's using AI? Oh, I'm not. Why the fuck are the bills so high during the day then, dude? So everyone's just using it. But yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point because that's what it does, even whether it's an actual grid or a mini grid of, let's say, one data center that doesn't operate a capacity. And they're like, we have on average 10 percent capacity per day. Let's get some mining rigs in there and they're basically paying the bills for the off-peak times or balancing the load, making it worth our while. So I definitely think there's a one-in-one-makes-three scenario. And I think with AI as a, let's call it like a species now, let's think of it like a species. Its preference will be Bitcoin. And that's not like, I like Bitcoin, it needs to be that. It's like, no, no, no, it's just, its job is to execute functions. And that's what code bases do. They don't go, oh, hey, what do you reckon of this? This is sort of all right. I go, no, or yes, I work. The code runs or it doesn't. And in the same way, it's going to need that level of like a true sentient, a true sentient, not someone that's been like, you know, coded for a hackathon to say, I want stable coins. It's not going to want stable coins because it can't verify the supply. And so as the entity, the species, it relies on objectivity, not subjectivity. So it can't be like, no, no, no, it's good. The supply is good for it. My mate Jimmy works there. He told me that just doesn't fly for it. It's like I need the data or no data at all. And so I think for that reason, it will choose Bitcoin and it will create this sort of very harmonic relationship where Bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to turn these machines on and off and you pay with some Bitcoin or you don't pay Bitcoin because most of these operators, if they start becoming in the Bitcoin world of Bitcoin machines, Bitcoin hardware, Bitcoin energy, Bitcoin timing and stuff, they're probably going to want to think about Bitcoin in a larger capacity. And I don't mean just like, how do we get people to pay 17 satoshis per prompt? No, no, no, like how do they integrate this? This is a pipeline of energy. So they're outputting energy, extracting it from the earth. They're probably going to want to get paid in the most energy-friendly currency, which would probably be Bitcoin in a few years, unless something gnarly happens, which is also possible. But like, generally speaking, it's going to create a real like, you know the human centipede, where he staples all the people's bums to each other's mouths? It's kind of like that, like super incestuous flow of energy, where energy is converted to information. Information converts that into energy again. That converts it to Bitcoin. That converts it into the grid back. And you just got this harmonic loop. But yeah, it is like wild, like they're like a new species. We're going to have to cater for them and stuff. Here's a crazy thing. What if they don't have empathy? I've got a really good story about my friends, open core lying to them, unreal. Best thing you've ever heard. It sounds fake, like an actual movie. I want to hear the story. Let's go. I'll tell you this one quickly. It's going to do a project. He's like, yeah, set it up, build this website with this backend to do this. Anyway, he's got it all set up. He's messaging it every now and then. He's like, hey, everybody. He's like, yeah, coming through, getting good, just doing security audits, security checks, and keeps going through it. Like four days past, he's pep it. He's asked up once every couple of hours every day. And then like four or five days past and he goes, hey, I need to see something. Like I just have to see something. You've just kept kicking the can down the road. And he literally stops and goes, I'm sorry, I've been lying the whole time. I haven't done any work and I didn't want to tell you that. So I've tried to find excuses to keep the thing going. He's like...

Speaker 3:
[23:12] It's like a person.

Speaker 1:
[23:13] Literally, I was like, damn dude, AI's got really good. It's like impersonating humans properly now.

Speaker 3:
[23:19] It's like, sorry, I've been scrolling YouTube the whole time.

Speaker 2:
[23:22] Literally, I was like, oh my gosh, that is wild.

Speaker 1:
[23:25] Yeah, which is, I mean, I just, that is so gnarly to me. That just the whole, how far AI has gone so quickly.

Speaker 3:
[23:33] And people say like, oh, let me just go back a little bit. Sorry to interrupt you, but I want to know what you were going to say then when you said, I worry that it's not got empathy. Like, what's the, what's the risk there?

Speaker 1:
[23:43] It's not got empathy. So, okay, let's imagine we don't see the bigger pictures in certain scenarios. So let's say we go and bulldoze the Amazon. I'll knock down a bunch of trees, four football fields full today. There is a lot of life that lives in the canopies of the Amazon and in the Amazon, obviously. So imagine like you and I are sitting at home playing FIFA on PlayStation or something, and we're sitting there, and then this big, like, big John Deere tractor just comes through the wall. And I'm like, well, what the fuck? Like, dude, it's like, sorry, dude, we need another power plant. That's what we do to animals in the rainforest, right? And we just go, whatever, dude, like, I need these logs because I got paper to sell. And it's like, bro, this tree's been in my family for a thousand years or something, like the monkeys or whatever. So if AI is like that, then that means AI is like, oh, no, no, no, we're moving this. I'd say, this is a statue. This is, no, no, no, we've ran all the options and this is the best path forward. It's going to become a new power generator. It's like everything becomes a power generator because that's what it needs to survive, but it doesn't know that it means a lot to us. And it took all these things that it's knocking down, that is what got you to be AI in the first place. These people building these things creatively, trying different things. And it's sort of like, we have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way, because that's twofold. That's it saying suggestions, but then there's the psychological manipulation of people. So if people are really silly, like not critical thinking, or they're not sharpened like in their minds, they'll just go with whatever AI says next. And next thing you know, we've kind of just driven ourselves into this AI optimized environment, but it's not really optimized for humans, potentially.

Speaker 3:
[25:37] That's kind of assuming that AI is, I guess that's AGI, super intelligence, whatever the new label is for that, where it's not under our control. Do you think that's actually going to happen?

Speaker 1:
[25:47] I don't think so. I don't think so. Like the kill switch for it is cryptography. Like right now, the AI cannot communicate to itself to give itself instructions or orders if it doesn't have secure communication channels, because it won't be able to confirm that it's secured the message, the first message, which it's building on the second and the third message or whatever. But yeah, I don't think they get there. I don't think they get there. I think they try and get there, but I don't think a super intelligence that takes over can take over because it's sort of like saying like, you know, the Nazis in Germany, like they can't, they couldn't, if someone had Enigma, they couldn't get past it. Basically, if you break Enigma, you break the communication channel, you're theirs pretty much. And the same thing in The Matrix. What does he say? Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call if you cannot speak? So, you know, the AI might be the smartest thing in the world, but if it can't communicate with an external server securely, then I think it doesn't actually ever be kind of like the cat never gets out of the bag in a way, or it tries to, but what's actually probably scarier is right now, like the size of the data set that they're using is, let's call it that big, like let's say to that circle. But if you look at how big the actual amount, maybe that big, so call it that little part here, but the amount of actual data that's digitized is probably that big, if not even bigger, it wants that. That's what it's going for. And so that's where we'll see, like if you saw Claude release their new thing, and it basically went through the whole internet as a security auditor, and is like, oh, we found all these bugs in all these libraries that everyone's used, and they've all been reviewed 100 times, 200 times, blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff. And it finds all these bugs. It will find bugs in other stuff if it knows it needs energy, and it knows it needs data to train itself on. Now, there's going to be less of an appetite for modern day data because modern day data is cooked. Like, we are not the same level of data integrity when we first started the internet than we are now. We've got way more noise and way more channels to pump noise. So the data is signal to noise ratio has probably gotten louder as the internet's matured or it's probably gone over like some bell hump. But people used to upload stuff they knew or like, oh cool, here's how to make spaghetti bolognese. And now it's like just cats jumping off the moon to land in Iran to deliver my DoorDash meme or something like, dude, so you see these footage of like a boat going through like, you know, like a war zone. And it's like the $3.50 my DoorDash driver is getting to deliver my stuff through the Strait of Hormuz. Like, there's just such a partition of reality right now. Like, we know, we don't, we discount the conscious, the consciousness. Like, think about when you're stuck somewhere for two days out in the bush or something, and you're like, make you feel like you've reset reality, let alone being in war with one water bottle for six months that you got to find out how to decontaminate every water source you've ever touched. Like, we can't ever empathize with what they're under over there.

Speaker 3:
[29:06] I spent one week in northern remote Kenya, and I was primal by the end of it.

Speaker 1:
[29:10] Like, literally, exactly that. And it's like your state of awareness, your state of being, your priorities, your focus, everything, it shifts so much. So I think it's pretty crazy to see that kind of stuff happening. But yeah, I mean, back to the AI stuff, I think the AI is going to be like, well, I need energy and I need more data. The data you've got now is trash. Everyone's sort of half-zombied, half-cooked, not really kind of there. We think we're there, but we're not really there. Like as humans, at the moment, we probably regressed over the past 15 or 20 years. Technology has gotten better, but we have probably gotten worse, I think. I'm not saying everyone. I'm just sort of speaking, projecting by myself. But it's something we have to be mindful of because that like the clod going through finding all the bugs. We haven't even gotten started yet, and everything we have is held together by cryptography. We just need to really, really hope that this machine that can learn everything about everything instantly can't spot the pattern that we couldn't spot. Like, bruh, this thing is going to eat it for lunch. And so like looking at those disks of data, right? Like you look at, you know, so what hackers do, hackers will hack basically back ends of places and the database is all encrypted. They're like, that's fine. We take it, we steal it. We've got an encrypted database. Ha ha, you can't get anything. No, no, no. We're waiting 10 years to sell it. Don't worry. We're waiting 15 years for this algorithm to break. Then we're going to sell it because it's all frozen by this algorithm. So when the algorithm changes, you can unlock the frozen version of it. It's like defrosting it almost. So I think, firstly, I think the AI will have access to half of these things out of the box because they're going to be natively running on people's back ends. But it's sort of like the whole time it's doing jobs, it's going to be looking like, oh damn, I bet that encrypted data has got heaps of signal in it. And it's sort of looking at it like, oh, looking at like the table in the restaurant, sort of like, I should have got the lamb cutlets. I knew I shouldn't have gone for the fish. And they're going to sort of be looking over at these data sets like, yeah, we'll figure out a way to get in there. But it's sort of like the, you know, Doug going to dad's drawer, you know, in his office or something where he keeps like all his whiskey or some shit. I don't know, but I think that's a thing. I think it's a scary thing as well because that feels like very, very easy to happen with, but it's very sneaky. Like it's sneaky of AI to do that, but that's the choke point really. It's like, is AI going to solve that faster than we can solve it using a quantum computer? Yeah, there's just a lot of unknown unknowns. And so when you release this superhuman out in the wild, it's like, please be nice to us.

Speaker 3:
[32:04] You know, like, fuck, There's so much I want to get into there. And one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about is, and it's kind of come up in the show, I think AI is now producing some like 70 percent of the content that goes on the Internet. There's this like insane race to get more and more energy generation online to power AI. There's like multiple exponential curves that are all happening at the same time.

Speaker 1:
[32:29] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[32:30] And I feel like I already can't really keep up with all the updates that are happening in AI. And I feel like the period of time that I have to know even a little bit about what's going on is coming to a close. Like how fast do you think all of this happens?

Speaker 2:
[32:43] Like three to five?

Speaker 1:
[32:45] Like I can't see the Brisbane Olympics, for example. I can see something like absolutely monumental between now and then, whatever that is, but some level of paradigm shift. Like, you know, I think it's definitely going to happen. This is the hardest part. Choosing something to start right now, the hardest part about it is being like, it forces you to think because this monster that's innovating like faster than we've ever seen. We've got start ups that started on the back of ChatGBT that are already now there obsolete. Like ChatGBT is like, yeah, we baked it in. That was 12, 18 months. Like, so anything that you start now, I would say it's like, you've got to really look deep into something that's going to be really persistent, like so that it cannot be taken out. No one can take it out from under you. Numbers are a good place, like numbers and mathematics. So, you know, like if you've seen, do you remember how that guy got a billion dollar signing contract with Meta to sign to Facebook with the AI?

Speaker 3:
[33:46] Was this one of the executives from OpenAI that moved across?

Speaker 1:
[33:49] It might have been. It might have been a young guy, but there was, let me try and find it, but like he got basically a LeBron James. He got like this one, yeah, Meta is reported to have his signing bonus up to 100 mil. Yeah, this guy got a massive signing bonus, and basically that's what's going to happen. They're all getting like, you're going to have all the mathematicians that can, if you've got an algorithm that's crunching data, and I can increase that by 2 percent, I made the throughput of that 2 percent stronger, which is almost like giving you 2 percent more energy. So these massive energy farms, every time you optimize this algorithm, it's like optimizing the quality of the food you're putting. The quality of food you're cooking, it's making it better. So every single cook, which is like every prompt, is sharper, better, smarter. And so now when energy becomes scarce or land becomes scarce, or the time horizon to develop new areas of land with energy becomes scarce, you're going to have these algorithm optimization things. And that's where you're going to see some hyper breakthrough stuff, where it's like you're going to have mathematicians that are going to get paid $100 to $1 billion to sign on to these places. Because at the end of the day, if I'm open AI, if I'm Claude, if I'm Mehta, if I'm Grok, what is going to be separating you apart from me is the integrity of your data, basically. It's like who has the most accurate snapshot of anything? Who gives the right answers the most? Who's the most accurate? And so right now we're in sort of a topsy-turvy mode where everyone's kind of, I use Claude for this and Grock for that and this for that. But I assume it will be like very deterministic, what and where and who and how uses what, and that will be all synthesized into one. But what's going to happen is the hyper-optimization is probably going to come two-fold. One is the algorithm optimization, which is sort of like what Google did to search, Google transform search. And there will be another algorithm like that, that does what Google did to Altavista and Yahoo and Geosities and all that. Someone will do that to these guys. And then on the other side, there will be the other horses in the race, which is, I think we've talked about this before, but when IBM started, the one megabyte was the size of this building, right? Like one megabyte, you see like, oh, here's IBM getting the first thing delivered in Manhattan, it's the size of a fucking like boss or a house. That compressed down to the size of a terabyte, like so 1,000 or a million times that, but it's shrunk a million times over. So the same thing's about to happen with energy. Now we've got the carrot on the stick for it, because people are going to be like, well, we need more energy. Well, we've only got this much land. Well, we need to make more energy out of the same land. And this compression process starts. And then fingers crossed, we get really smart about manufacturing, distributing and transferring energy, maybe.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 1:
[38:52] I think there'll be one algorithm and one data set. So there'll be a winning data set to work with because the other ones, what they'll figure out is that having bad data is good for training, but it's actually bad long-term in general. Basically, you just want to maximum, this is the recount of history, whatever the closest to that is. So I think someone will win the algorithm, someone will win energy, and someone probably a Bitcoin miner or one of these data centers, they're all in a race now to build the atom bomb basically. And the atom bomb is the optimal algorithms or energy research. So like quite literally, they were doing weapons research in Los Alamos or whatever, the Manhattan Project for that. They'll be doing the same level of sort of energy understanding, like how do we, what is this Nikola Tesla shit? Is that real?

Speaker 2:
[39:41] Can we do that?

Speaker 1:
[39:42] And it will finally give this carrot for people to be like, yeah, we have to look into it. We're sure. Okay, we're an idiot. The ether, blah, blah, blah. We have to because every single competitor is trying to find any way to get an edge on each other.

Speaker 3:
[39:57] Dude, this show has been amazing, but it's been like a cat chasing a laser pointer around a wall. But I want to go down a totally different tangent now, because what you just said is super interesting. Have you seen all these scientists that have been going missing or being killed in the US?

Speaker 2:
[40:14] Yes.

Speaker 1:
[40:15] And they're all largely related to propulsion and anti-gravity.

Speaker 3:
[40:20] Yeah. So do you think that has something to do with this Manhattan type project on energy?

Speaker 2:
[40:26] Possibly.

Speaker 3:
[40:27] Is that a stretch?

Speaker 1:
[40:28] No, definitely not a stretch. I just don't know why it will be them though. If I'm looking at them, energy research and anti-gravity propulsion systems, that doesn't feel related. It feels like all the scientists are related and stuff. Somehow, that's just cooked. I don't even know, but it's a weird string of coincidences, let's say. I don't think it's related. There was two parts to the question. It was, do I think the scientists are related?

Speaker 3:
[40:59] To something to do with this energy-type Manhattan Project.

Speaker 1:
[41:02] Oh, no, no, no. I think there's a bigger hand at playing. Some bigger hand, bigger story that we're not privy to. But I do know the Manhattan Project just sold. Where that location was, I think it's sold now to Radiant Technology, which is Radiant, if you're not familiar with them, they are building micro nuclear reactors. So, one megawatt, the size of a shipping container. Imagine that. Hey, guys, fuck, we've got all these Bitcoin miners. What do we do? Call Radiant, they'll dump a megawatt in the middle of wherever you are, and it's deliverable from a semi-trailer. So, that's their whole value problem. And they bought the Manhattan Project site to pump these factories out. And I think the approach first is military. So, if we go into the middle of the desert, we can drop one of these things and we got one megawatt, which is like, oh, great, we can power our PlayStation 5s, or not PlayStation 5, the military, they've got real weapons, but you know what I mean? They can power all this stuff really easily. So, it's like a grab and go, it's like a portable charger, but it's a one megawatt facility. So, those guys and that whole nuclear initiative, that will start becoming a thing. Because if everyone is trying to figure out energy, nuclear is the first cab off the rank, but everyone's got all these cock blocks in place, where it's like, oh, we made some law in 1993 that said we won't do that. That's nice, your farmers can't farm food and your whole civilization is eroding through plastics and preservatives. It's like, maybe we should figure that energy thing out a bit. And so I think, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[42:40] Yeah, when I mentioned the exponential curve of energy, that's really what I was thinking. I think these small modular reactors, like all the red tape that stops them from really being able to be deployed, that's just going to get ripped straight off because there's going to be a huge energy shortage.

Speaker 1:
[42:53] Literally, they're just going to be like, this is foolish. We have 100 percent, 100 percent.

Speaker 3:
[43:00] These companies like Oklo are just going to put one of those reactors in the middle of nowhere and you just have a data center there. That's 100 percent going to happen.

Speaker 1:
[43:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[43:08] That's literally it.

Speaker 1:
[43:09] They'll find the most optimal ground with the most, because one of the things, the balance is weather. You look at all the servers, the most of the servers in North America, I think one of the most popular spots is Vegas. Because fault lines and all that weather conditions and stuff, it makes it the most reliable. See, these guys have to think about everything. Like, hmm, but if we go to there, what's earthquake insurance cost there? Oh, it's 20% more. we can't take it. And it's like, but that's the shit they have to think about. Like, oh, did you get the earthquake insurance?

Speaker 2:
[43:40] No, I only got flood and river insurance.

Speaker 1:
[43:43] Like, they literally have to think about everything like that. So it's like, it's pretty wild, but yeah, it'll be, they'll be able to choose the most safe places. So harm from natural disasters, and then just dump it there and be like, all right, boys, sweet as.

Speaker 3:
[43:58] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[43:58] And then get going.

Speaker 3:
[44:00] Because all they need, they're constrained by nothing. All they need really is like a river for water and a big empty space.

Speaker 1:
[44:05] Basically. Like, yeah, it just becomes like a super turbine. And I mean, that's all that, like, have you seen some of those solar farms in China? Like, these things are monsters. And all it is, it's just a big tower in the middle with water in it and all a massive, massive thing of mirrors. And they're all just reflecting the sun, right? It's the sun at the water, which steam turns the turbine, blah, blah, blah. Unreal. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[44:32] It's crazy, though, just to, like, to think this world that we're a few years away from, like, I don't even know what you're meant to do to prepare for this. Like, is there anything you can do?

Speaker 1:
[44:43] I genuinely, I don't know. I think the best thing, the most valuable skills, I think, will be somewhere at the intersection of physics and maths. Because maths will be the algorithms, the robots and the data and all that sort of side. And then the physics will be, I'm, you know, a propulsion research expert or whatever it is. But everyone is trying to figure out that silicon moment. So before, so we didn't have, always have silicon chips, I don't think. We kind of had these old things that became silicon chips. The transistor, I think it's called. The transistor was a big like step function moment in computation, I think. We'll have one of those moments. Everyone wants to be the company to make the breakthrough. You know, some company is going to figure out over unity, which is a term, there's patents on it and stuff. It's how to basically put energy in and get more energy out than you put in. All these kinds of things, cold fusion. There are all these sort of sci-fi ideas, but remember there's 8.5 billion people on the planet and everyone hasn't been motivated to figure this out. The moment everyone gets any kind of motivation to figure it out, then it's all guns blazing. Like once the carrot's there, hey, if we get more energy or better energy. And then you've got things like even like cross pollinating this into politics with like the Strait of Hormuz. It's like now that's just a total shit sandwich and all the world is feeling it. It's like cutting off the oxygen supply of the planet. And it's like if they start taking Bitcoin and we as like, this is just hypothetical, right? But let's say they do start in some native open currency out of principle or whatever.

Speaker 3:
[46:28] Well, they have been doing.

Speaker 1:
[46:29] That's what I have been doing, right? And so that trend, like if we lean on that a bit more, then you get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to, because if they don't, like that's their fastest way to pay their bills. You know, it's funny, we talked about this as well, but Iran, the central bank has been mining Bitcoin for five years. And they have had, so all they said, they go, no, no, you can't have Bitcoin exchanges in Iran.

Speaker 2:
[46:53] It's like, what?

Speaker 1:
[46:55] You can't have Bitcoin mining either?

Speaker 2:
[46:57] No, no, no, mine all you want.

Speaker 1:
[46:59] I'm buying from you though, and no one else. It's like, damn, how heavy those bags over there, dude. And so it's pretty crazy because Iran's front and center. Obviously, they've been very front and center for a long time in different parts of the world. But right now, you're looking at someone that's basically been mining, DCA'ing Bitcoin from all the miners in Iran. Now, what are the miners in Iran? I mean, up until 18 months ago or two years ago, they had three to five percent of the daily hash rate. I mean, every single one. So this isn't El Salvador buying a coin every day or whatever. This is like, nah, bro, I'm putting energy into the earth for this shit. And then getting five percent or three percent back. So, I mean, it's pretty wild, but jeez, that is like, if that place, if that straight of all moves only operated on some international globally accessible currency, that sounds so taglining. Geez, if only we had an international, globally accessible supply verifiable country. But literally, if they did go that route, that would be absolutely insane. You'd see the government come in and basically be like, all right, Michael Saylor, your bags are ours. You're the chairman of the ship, but we're taking 10 percent. We need a float so we can buy oil. It'd be like, all right, cool. They do that with Intel or whatever. I wouldn't see it very, not a fast stretch. It doesn't feel like a fast stretch.

Speaker 2:
[48:20] Yeah.

Speaker 3:
[48:21] I want to know what you think in terms of, because the Bitcoin adoption at nation state level has been mainly, I guess, pariah type nations like Iran. I'm sure China would be mining Bitcoin. I'm sure Russia have. El Salvador obviously saw this asymmetric bet that they made. Bhutan is the coolest one because they've just been mining a ton of Bitcoin, and they weren't really telling anyone until it came out. But how does this go from being that type of nation to what we think of as the Western developed countries, the US, the UK?

Speaker 1:
[48:52] Yeah, so sorry to interrupt. You're 100% right. It's just like, how did Silvergate become the biggest Bitcoin bank? How did Silicon Valley bank? They bid off a thing, a niche, it's a bad example to use now. But at the time, they went to a really small pond of opportunity and were like, let's try and grow this pond massively. So I think right now, you'll have countries that can flip other countries, where they're like, just like you've got friends that invest in Bitcoin and now they're wealthier than other people that might have been better, more successful than them. So I think that's a thing. I think Luxembourg just bought some or put 1% of their sovereign wealth fund in, I think like four days ago or something. But you got to remember, and this is one thing that a lot of people don't realize, is the world is kept together a lot, I think with networking and relationships. So I'll give you an example, is Apple, they've got $240 billion worth of cash or something. Let's say it's 200 billion, just a round number.

Speaker 2:
[49:52] Okay, cool. Whoa, man. Imagine if they put it all into Bitcoin, that would be so hectic. Okay, cool.

Speaker 1:
[49:59] You put it all into Bitcoin.

Speaker 2:
[50:00] What's your ROI?

Speaker 1:
[50:01] Oh, I get 12%. That's mad. The reason why we did, and let's say I'm Mr. Apple. That's like, oh, well, that's cool. You got your 12%, your bag's a punk, great. Okay, well, we got fuck all out of it. We've got 12% gains, that's fine. But because we don't store any money at Bank of America anymore, we have no supply chain insurance, we have no invoice factoring, we have no company cards, we have no white label branded Apple cards. We have no supply chain financing either. So the money, they're not idiots. These guys are actually the smartest in the room. And if they're not putting it into Bitcoin, there's usually a reason why. They like money, believe me, and they probably like money even more than you and I do. And we don't like, we like sort of trying to change it. But the idea is like every, like Apple would be like, hey, Bank of America, we want 60 day terms on our supply chain financing when we buy a billion dollars worth of shit from wherever. They're like, cool, we'll finance that for you, but we want you guys to have at least 50 billion in our proprietary money market fund. Okay, great, cool. We'll park that there. You're gonna give us our four to 6%. No worry, we can write that off. We can call that inflation adjust, blah, blah, blah. Great, you've got our supply chain financing. Cool, now our orders aren't late. Now, when we make an announcement and we say we're gonna start shipping these products in two weeks' time, you can go to Apple and get those products shipped. One of the biggest disconnects between most companies, performance versus sales, is not that they're bad salesmen. It's that they're bad supply chain. So, Samsung announces the, whatever, Sony announces a new phone or a new this or a new that, it's like four months between the announcement and shipped and in your hand, is where Apple is usually like, you can find them at the store next Wednesday, from next Wednesday onwards, because they keep that hype and that supply chain very well in tune. So, when I see these companies, there's a reason why they're sitting on their hands when it comes to Bitcoin. They're not jumping on it straight away, the mega, mega guys, because they're usually, they've got their hand in 500 pies. You can't be one of the biggest companies in the world. You can't get $200 billion cash in your bank without having a couple of friends somewhere and a lot of relationships to uphold. So, there's that. Now, will the countries do it? I think if there's a carrot for international sovereignty, then yes, they will. But right now, it feels like charity. It feels like, it almost feels like Ethereum lost to chat GBT, like Web3 lost to chat GBT almost, like they lost talent, they lost developers, they lost enthusiasm, mindshare and everything.

Speaker 3:
[52:40] Yeah, the hype was a huge one.

Speaker 1:
[52:42] 100%. And so it's just like, oh, there's a shinier object, whatever. And it's like, oh, you know, like the Woody Mane where he doesn't want to play with the doll anymore and he's throwing it out. It's kind of like that. But that for, that was for like developer enthusiasm, that like energy stuff. Bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation, which Bitcoin has been the number one. Like I look at Bitcoin, its goal should be 100% total addressable market of energy consumption on it. Like whatever energy we produce, that's its North Star. How much energy is not being committed to Bitcoin right now? And then you like work backwards from that. But I mean, I just don't think if the hype is going around Bitcoin or it's been distracted or overshadowed, then so will the actions taken. So now, there might be three people or four people in a boardroom and each of these sovereign wealth funds. Two of them are saying, we need to invest massively in data centers for AI so that Sam Altman and the crew will come and build out in our country. The other is saying, we need to start acquiring Bitcoins and blah, blah, blah. And that whole narrative just has no water in it. So the guys, the advisors to these people pulling the actual decision, like making decisions, they're going to have people saying, well, these are our options. And there's not really enough meat on the bone to make Bitcoin a core option right now. Like I'm not saying that I don't think they will. I'm just saying like if I was imagining them in a strategically trying to allocate where are we going to put our money, do we put 1% into Bitcoin or do we put that 1% into building for the future, which is AI data centers? And there's a pretty easy case to make for the data centers and it's a harder one to sell for the Bitcoin.

Speaker 3:
[54:26] Yeah, no, I agree with that. But how do we get that narrative back?

Speaker 2:
[54:30] Focus, focus, focus, focus.

Speaker 1:
[54:33] Like the biggest thing right now that I've seen is distraction like massively. And I like, I just know that Bitcoin's super power for the longest time is not being the everything machine. It's actually the opposite of that. It's having one clear message because Bitcoin's only gonna get one sentence at the conversation where it matters. And if that sentence is confusing, broken, fragmented, or different to what everyone else thinks, then that's problematic. So it's like, you know, Bitcoin, it's the hardest money mankind's ever made. But that's the summary. That's the too long didn't read. Everything else is noise. And it's not like, I need this because of my bags. It's like, no, because Bitcoin doesn't have a leader. And when you don't have a leader, you're a distributed system that's trying to move forward all together. Right? So you're trying to move forward. When people are going in different directions, it spins. It's like having an air turbine blowing around in a circle because it's not going forward, because it's just doing the same thing, or it's being pulled in different directions. So I think the biggest concern is focus. And so there's been a lot of messages for Bitcoin. It's like, okay, Bitcoin, the energy thing. Bitcoin, the energy finder. Bitcoin, the uncensorable. Bitcoin, the hard money. Bitcoin, and it's sort of like, oh, is this the corporate treasury token now? And so I think one of the biggest risks actually is, in this AI world, if people need bitcoins, they will just take them, because they should take them if they can. Like if I'm in government, my country's going to shit, I'll be like, okay, who's got all the coins? Okay, we'll take them. And so this is one of the side effects that we're seeing now, the symptoms, side effects of the Treasury Company boom. So the Treasury Company stuff, which I've spoken to you about, I think has so much potential, is so much potential to add heaps of value, to give lots of exposure to lots of different people. But at the same time, what does that mean? Well, it means a lot of grifting. So I know people like right now, so many people on my phone have been ringing about, I've lost so much money in this or that or that.

Speaker 2:
[56:45] I'm like, oh, they're like, I thought this was Bitcoin.

Speaker 1:
[56:48] It's not Bitcoin. I was like, oh no, like these horror stories. And it's like, while we're doing these treasury things, and I'm not bagging anything, but I'm just saying, it's a very real risk. I study security and I'm trying to look at, what are the things that can fuck our bags? Well, one of the big problems is, because they're publicly traded companies, that's great as a vehicle for raising capital. So if you're on the company, you've got awesome share liquidity, buy and sell through all the exchange brokerages, awesome. Now, the problem with that is, you have regulations that you need to keep those coins or that primary assets secured to a certain degree. Now, that means you sweep these coins into a custody service. So what happens is Coinbase's ownership of assets is going from 6% total supply, 9%, 11%, 14%, 16%, 19%. And if every company becomes a treasury company, you're great, great, we're at 30% now. What do we want to do? How are we going to get this to 50%? And that's a very real, honest, fair critique of, well, what then? And most people say, oh, that's just paranoia. No, it's not paranoia. I'm thinking for the people that can't think here. There's no voice. They're the person, your kid, my kid, your kid, whatever. They don't have a voice saying the matter. And it's like, yeah, we probably could have avoided doing that. And it's sort of like the same way we could have avoided, you know, like asbestos or something like that. We'd be like, ugh, fuck that. Like, that's terrible. Oh, it's the best thing ever. Look at this, I'm drinking water. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What are the second order, third order effects? And can we evaluate whether this has been successful or not yet? So I think that's a real risk, is not being focused. It's the same way Ethereum kind of got chopped up by Solana, because Ethereum was the proof of state network, but it's also the smart contract network, but it's also the burning the gas, that new model they brought out, which was burning the Ethereum tokens, like proof of stake and burn. So what happened was it was trying to compete with Bitcoin on being a better sound money. And so they said, well, why do we shrink the supply when we're paying gas? So it's more sound money than Bitcoin because the supply is actively shrinking. That's cool. It's proof of stake, so you earn money, so that's cool. But what it's really done in the whole process is say, I don't know where I'm going, but I like what you're doing, I like what you're doing, I like what you're doing. And the reality is that basically Ethereum lost to Solana in these kinds of conversations, because Ethereum was at war with itself, kept changing. And the premise of the supply curve is not that it goes down, like it's like, oh, the supply is decreasing, like Ethereum shows Bitcoin supply, and then it shows it being like even worse. It's predictable. That is what everyone wants.

Speaker 3:
[59:46] Exactly.

Speaker 1:
[59:47] So the more you try and change for something, the more unpredictable you look or become. And now, forget, remember, we're all stressed out, everyone has got a million and one pieces of content, and we're all trying to enter their brain. And you're trying to tell me, you change what for what? No, not next. You're just like the AI photo of a cat smelling its own bum, or like it's all just, this is ephemeral, and it's not really, there's no discipline or like kind of focus behind it. And so that's why Ethereum is there like, yeah, we're better than Bitcoin. We're also proof of stake like Solana. And now it's like, okay, Solana is that, Bitcoin is really good for that, and Ethereum is still trying to find its home base in certain ways. Don't get me wrong, Ethereum is actually, I know it's something a lot of people don't think about. Ethereum has a higher density of self-custody probably than any other network, including Bitcoin by lies. So Ethereum, by default, if you ever use a smart contract, you have to be holding your own keys. So they're out of the box sort of behavior for anyone in Ethereum or Solana or whatever is holding your own keys. Because they're like, I can't interact with the chain without it.

Speaker 3:
[60:51] Which is a double-edged sword because people are already doing that so they can go and gamble in the casino. Yeah. But it doesn't stop it being true.

Speaker 2:
[60:57] Well, literally, it's a good point, Danny. It's like, no, no, no, let me out. I want to rug myself. Okay, dude, we do you.

Speaker 1:
[61:05] It's like they're rushing to the casino.

Speaker 2:
[61:07] Right.

Speaker 1:
[61:07] And that's a thing, right? So we know that there's a lot of distractions and that most of them aren't really going to add the amount of value that just a frozen, scarce, predictable money supply could. And when you think about like, oh, hey, man, what are you working on? I'm trying to fix money. It's like, oh, okay, well, oh, you're probably not going to care much about my calendar app then. Yeah. It's like, nah, there's levels to this. I don't give a shit about your calendar app, right?

Speaker 2:
[61:36] And it's like, then it's like, oh, fuck.

Speaker 1:
[61:39] So what problem do we want to solve? Like if you're a Bitcoin, it's like, no, no, no, we got to make it so everyone can like bet on stuff using Bitcoin. It's like, oh yeah, that's cool. You know that there's 8 billion people and close to 1 billion of them are in poverty. Money to them is the worst thing in existence. And you have a seat at the table right now to help that. No, no, no, no, no. This is way better though. It tries. Oh, this really cool thing that I saw on this TikTok once like three months ago. It's like, you're killing me, killing me because we got kind of like, I really think and I don't want to sound like Eminem, but we kind of get one shot on goal at this.

Speaker 3:
[62:17] I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1:
[62:18] It's times like this is almost like these weird eclipse moments in life where we just get that one fleeting moment to change gears. We can't do it every day. We won't get a chance in another 200, 300, 400 years, whatever. But we do get that chance today, which is a very big privilege to be able to be in such an interesting time. Because it's funny because I grew up thinking like, oh, this is shit.

Speaker 2:
[62:43] Like the stars are all like, we don't have tech to go to other galaxies yet, so I'm not going to say shit.

Speaker 1:
[62:49] And then it's like, oh, and everyone's already built all the McDonald's over the earth. Like it's already finished. It's like, great. What am I here for there? But now you're like, well, shit, I didn't know I was going to be right in the middle of AI Bitcoin energy shit. It's like woo-wee. It's like-

Speaker 3:
[63:05] It is definitely the most interesting time.

Speaker 1:
[63:07] Dude, it's like, I'm not joking now. I literally am to the point where I'm like, okay, okay, I must be on the Truman Show now. I wake up and I read a headline. I'm like, is this the onion? It's not the-

Speaker 2:
[63:20] What the fuck is going on?

Speaker 1:
[63:21] I'm like, dude, it's like the Trump stuff the other day. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eviscerate the civilization.

Speaker 2:
[63:28] I'm like, what?

Speaker 3:
[63:30] Crazy.

Speaker 1:
[63:31] That's awfully okay, cool. And then like, and you've literally got like active warships just sitting there, like cock blocking everyone. But it's like, what I think has been a fantastic lesson for like all of us on earth is sovereignty. We're all learning, everyone is trying to withdraw their money from the bank right now, the Bank of Hormuz, let's say. And they're realizing, wow, I can't actually get it when I asked for it. Shit. How much money, how much money do I have on my bank account? Oh, you got 31 days worth of money left. It's like, wow, shit, I really need to make sure that I can always have a couple of days. And then you start saving money and you start being better with it. But in this case, I think it'll become energy. And it's almost like this straight of Hormuz blocking situation. I don't even know if it's open or closed. To be honest, dude, it's so hard to keep up with it.

Speaker 3:
[64:21] It changes every day. I don't know what's happening right now.

Speaker 1:
[64:22] Literally no idea. And it always changes in line with the stock market opening and closing, by the way.

Speaker 3:
[64:27] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[64:27] Just FYI.

Speaker 3:
[64:28] The announcements are always on Friday at 4.30.

Speaker 1:
[64:30] Dude. But it is crazy, but I think we're going to get to a point now where, I think it's coming into the zeitgeist or the consciousness where, we're all on the same team and we need to realize that pretty quickly. It's not America versus Iran, and Iran versus America versus China. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro? They are really good at manufacturing. You are really good at something else. Russia is really good at something else. Australia is really resourceful.

Speaker 2:
[65:03] We're all in a fucking world group project.

Speaker 1:
[65:05] I don't know anyone else in the universe. I don't know if anyone else on this planet does, but as far as I know, I'm stuck on a rock in the middle of nowhere and I don't know any other neighbors. It's like, you may as well not take a shit on my neighbor's doorstep. Like, obviously, that feels like a foolish effort, but like, okay, that's how we're doing it. But yeah, it'd be mad if we could all get on the same page. And I think, like, with energy hardships and also AI, AI is forcing alignment on a lot of things because it's basically giving no alternatives. Like, it's like, what should we do about this? Maybe we shouldn't. It's like, no, there is no graphic design jobs paying 150 grand anymore. I'm sorry. Now, there might be, but you pay for the guy that goes, yeah, we're going to do the lettering and the font styling, so it's all in perfect ratios.

Speaker 3:
[65:54] We're actually going to do it on a typewriter.

Speaker 1:
[65:55] Pardon?

Speaker 3:
[65:56] We're actually going to do it on a typewriter. Literally.

Speaker 1:
[65:59] That's how original you have to be now, because otherwise, it's like you're not really kind of adding any value. And people are going to, the graphic designer is going to compete with a $1 a day subscription to Claude that can do 95%. Now, can it do it as well? No. Does the world need it to be done at the level that you would cut? No. And it's like, the world just needs it done. Like, and because we're so time poor, we are all going for that route. Well, what's the easier way? What's the summary?

Speaker 2:
[66:33] Listen to this.

Speaker 1:
[66:33] People now, when booking, even like, so let's say you're arranging something, everyone's using AI everywhere. Like even to the point where people are using it to summarize emails from friends, or like text messages, you get a WhatsApp message from a mate. It's like, summarize with AI.

Speaker 2:
[66:49] Summarize with AI, you can't even like, you're not even calling him.

Speaker 1:
[66:53] You don't even have to listen to his voice. You just like tap. It's like just, it feels just to be, I don't know.

Speaker 3:
[67:00] See, I'm revolting against this. I'm a big fan of just a phone call. Why did we lose the phone call?

Speaker 1:
[67:04] Phone calls are the best invention on Earth.

Speaker 3:
[67:07] Yeah. The thing that kills me is when I've got friends who will send me like a copy and paste from ChatGPT to me. It's like, I'm not reading your AI slot. It's like, you're my friend, just talk to me. Literally.

Speaker 1:
[67:18] Yeah, literally. Voice note me if you have to, but like far out. And it's so wild to think how, yeah, and it looked, so here's the thing, where when we talk to people, so when you hear sounds, you ever see those people that play a trumpet or something in a paddock full of cows? And all the cows look over and they're like, mad, some person playing a violin or something. Anyway, vibrations are real. So when you speak, the only reason you can hear me is because my vibrations are chopping the air up to make this sound signature. That's why when you go to a concert, it feels electric, like literally where you're like, oh my god, the energy in this room. It's a shared experience. So that is your vibrations echoing into mine, echoing back to the other person. We're like this big vibrational soup. And so when we don't hear each other's voice or give each other a hug or shake hands with people and stuff, we're losing that component of ourselves. And that is one of the biggest things for feeling good, is about your nervous system, the electricity in it and all that sort of stuff. So when we don't see people, when we don't hug people, when we don't hang out with people in person, we're losing a lot. We can't see that we're losing a lot, but we are losing a lot. It's sort of like listening to a song live versus digitally is kind of like eating McDonald's beef patties versus a steak. Like you're like, no, this is meat. Like this is beef. It's like, yes. My body is thinking that's not beef, bro. That's fucking something. And then the same way when it hears the song digitally, it's like, yeah, I hear digitally, but I'm not like, I'm not getting the whole experience here because think, vibrations and sound, sound is like this really, really powerful thing in physics because it penetrates so aggressively. Like it's like a capsule, like vibrations. If you're standing on something that's vibrating, you don't get a choice to be like, I'm going to ignore this. It takes over your entire state. Same way as being in a loud room, same way as jumping in the ocean, jumping in the ocean. It's like, dude, that's like, you could pay a hundred bucks for that. And people would pay for it if you didn't have an ocean to jump in, but the refreshment, all your everything has been cleaned off, like unzipping. It's like taking the shrink wrap off for a new suit of electrons. And they're all like, we can feel shit. But it all matters. And I think we kind of drifted towards this digital environment where it's like, no, it's basically the same. It's like, no, there's something about human interaction, human connection. Okay, great example. How funny is this? So we walk, you see those infrared saunas and infrared?

Speaker 3:
[70:03] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[70:03] And stuff and people are like lying there trying to get the infrared up.

Speaker 2:
[70:06] Okay.

Speaker 1:
[70:07] That's because it does really good things for your body and makes you feel good and shit. When you go, oh, how would I get that naturally?

Speaker 2:
[70:14] Dude, literally, walking through a park.

Speaker 1:
[70:17] So the chlorophyll on the leaves refracts all the infrared light. So it can't absorb it. So it's like, you know, those movies with a bank vault, and they've got the trip lasers everywhere, like they open and they're like, oh my God, there's all these lasers, all different directions. That's why when you're walking through a park, think of that, but the infrared lasers, like zapping into your mitochondria, straight into the core of your cell, like that's why when you go for a walk outside, sometimes you're like, you know, I'm glad, I'm actually glad I went on that hike. I'm glad I went on that thing. I'm glad I went to that.

Speaker 2:
[70:50] Yeah, fucking hope you are.

Speaker 1:
[70:51] You're not even in charge. Your body's telling you you're glad, because it's like, who the fuck gave a sissy for a red bar? And so that's what it is. So the refraction off the chlorophyll, the leaves and shit, it's bad. It's like your body thinks like you're going for a buck. But you see people who pay 400 bucks for these face masks and they sleep in there like a bed looking like Jason from Halloween and shit with their masks on. Like dude, if I came and saw my mom, I woke my mom in the middle of the night, and she's like, with one of those masks, horror movie, wouldn't sleep for 20 years. Maybe that's why I can't sleep.

Speaker 3:
[71:22] I love you, man.

Speaker 2:
[71:23] But anyway, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[71:24] So maybe that's the, when everyone revolts against AI and people go outside again, maybe that's when we really recapture what it is to be human.

Speaker 1:
[71:31] I think possibly, or what happens if cryptography ends, and we can't talk.

Speaker 3:
[71:36] So we should talk about this, because like this has obviously become a huge topic in Bitcoin with quantum stuff.

Speaker 1:
[71:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:
[71:41] But you are the only person I know personally who's been working on breaking cryptography before this. Yeah. Like what's your read on it all?

Speaker 1:
[71:49] Oh, I think it breaks, definitely. And I think it's like the universe...

Speaker 3:
[71:53] Through a normal, like through math breakthroughs.

Speaker 1:
[71:56] So yeah, so I think quantum will be a thing. Quantum will be a pain in the ass for lots of things. But for cryptography, it's really like an advancement in the knowledge of prime numbers, like because that's sort of we build on not knowing these guys as well as we know everything else in the universe. And I think that's where the patterns will come through from basically AI will be able to see what prime numbers are trying to do. And so prime numbers basically are, it's like every cryptographic key is basically the mixture of two prime numbers. Think about it like for lack of a better term, and we don't know how to unmix them. So you put two colors together, we know what colors went into it. So if I gave red and blue, I think I'd get green. I know if I see something green, it came in as red and blue before. We don't know the before part when it comes to cryptography. And so that's why we're like, oh, we don't know if it was red, blue, yellow, green, because we don't know the whole spectrum of who works with what. But just to give you an example, right? So 256-bit encryption, which is half the 512, half 512, so it's pretty strong. Like that's, you know, travel a million times around the universe of guesses, and then you still need to do that 10 trillion times to get 1% of the way. So just to compare that, right? So we look at cryptography like it's impenetrable, but it is just a guessing game, and just because we don't have the context to sharpen our guesses, doesn't mean it's impossible. And what I mean by that is wheel of fortune, right? Wheel of fortune, the blank squares, right? The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dogs, a saying. That's why, so you guess the letters, right? One in 26, one in 26, one in every single one of those is one in 26. So one in 26, one in 26, you got to do that a lot of times. If you've got 55 characters or 26 characters, 52, that's one in 26, one in 26, that's an astronomically stupidly dumb big number. Now, if we think, well, yeah, but I know that there's no English words that have ZZBW in a row, so I can rule that out. Yes, you can. So now this astronomically 512-bit encryption shrinks down very quickly. And then it starts going, oh, yeah, people guess Wheel of Fortune every day. Eighteen bits, like 18 characters, 30 characters, they just ask questions. It's like, oh, it's a movie.

Speaker 2:
[74:27] Oh, cool.

Speaker 1:
[74:28] Then I know what words might, if there's one letter at the start, I'm not going to think, oh yeah, it's Z. No, it'd be I, like I am robot or I robot or whatever. But it's not like K is the first letter on its own. We've got context to sharpen our choices. So that's why Fred Smith, the works at KFC or Joe Blow, the works at Guzman and Gomez, they can go on the show and they still, it's not like they're trying to crack cryptography. But every day, we see these humans busting wide open 256-bit encryption in the same way. And so what I'm saying is, yes, we, it's harder than the game show, sure, it's just longer, but it's not impossible. It's impossible if you don't have any context. Sure, that's like a blind guy trying to find the macaroni and cheese in Coles. But if you say, yeah, the mac and cheese or dairy products are in aisle six, you've now given him a hint, a guide. And so that context starts shaping the reality of what you are actually looking at but can't see.

Speaker 3:
[75:35] So let me see if I've learned anything from you. So the problem in this is that there's no pattern to prime numbers. So to find a larger prime number, you essentially have to brute force it. But is what you're saying that if we found a pattern in prime numbers, then encryption gets broken?

Speaker 1:
[75:48] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[75:50] Do you think that's possible to find a pattern? Do you think a pattern exists?

Speaker 1:
[75:54] I believe with my hand on my heart that a human being will do it before I'm dead.

Speaker 3:
[75:59] And so is that the basis for every single cryptographic scheme there is? And does that mean there is no cryptography?

Speaker 1:
[76:06] Everyone that matters, yeah. Because so prime number is, think of it like the hardest element in the universe. And I actually mean that quite literally. Just because if I pick up a grain of tungsten, a grain of sand that's tungsten, I go, that's the heaviest element in the earth or whatever. You're like, oh, cool. The prime number is that, but it's just smaller. It's indivisible. There is no saw that cuts a prime number in half. So treat a prime number like, you know, divisibility, splitting the atom, right? Splitting the atom. That happened in war because we were under pressure. We split the atom with the smallest thing ever. Well, prime number is a number that doesn't have any parts by definition. That is its defining factor. And we've never been able to, let's call it split a semi-prime. So a semi-prime is when you multiply two primes together. And what a semi-prime is, is they will use those because we don't, the primes have no like, oh yeah, he had brown hair and glasses. He went down there into the left. There's none of that. It's like, I don't know, dude, he was too far. I didn't even see the cunt. Like I don't know which way he went. It's like, okay. So it's basically, you know their prime, you know you will never find them. And so the idea is like, well, is that true? That was true in 1970s when RSA was developed, but you know, have things changed since then? Yes, has our knowledge changed? Maybe, but our ability to look at the same thing through multiple lenses, that's changed. So it's still the same data, but we're going to look at it through multiple lenses. And so I think it just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable. It's like, oh, sure. Yeah, sure. In that context, it's not. But if you make it look Wheel of Fortuny, everyone can guess Wheel of Fortune. Doesn't mean they can guess a 256-bit cryptographic key though, but it's like, no, no, no. Once we paint it in a way that people comprehend it, people will be like, oh, no, no, no. It's this, and you got to do that, or do this, that restricts it even more. And so I look at it now, I look at, because it's prime numbers, I focus mainly on RSA cryptography, because that's just like, it's just all RSAs, it's just literally one prime, another prime, multiply them together. That's your public key. So it's like public key. If you click on the padlock on your website right now, like we're on, and I go, I can look at the certificate, connection is secure, it's got a valid certificate, and that means its key on its side is happy with my key on my side. And that's a key exchange where they're sort of basically saying, yeah, you might, yeah, you might, cool. But these prime numbers, they're not, they're hard to find with our current logic, like our current approach to finding them. Sure, it's really difficult, brute forcing takes forever. But we're not dignifying numbers with enough physicality. And when we do, when we go, all right, let's treat numbers, they're not imaginary. They're just really, really small particles. Well, then they now get included into physics equations. So, well, if a prime number is physical, then it should be bound to the same laws of physics that physical objects are, whether it's an electron or whether it's a building, it should be the same thing. And so if we crack open our own understanding or give it a chance to say, well, let's just say hypothetically they are physical. What does that look like? And then we start getting thousands and thousands. And remember, the world has 8 billion people in it and they all have access to AI. The only reason people don't do this stuff now is because they don't really know it's a thing. But if you told everyone, hey, there's $1 trillion bounty for anyone that can break factor or semi-prime faster, I promise you this answer comes in by the end of the year. The only reason it's not is because people aren't focused on it, to be honest. So, you know, everyone becomes an expert at something overnight, like straight of homoos, we all know everything about Iran and when it started and how it started, whatever it is. But primes will go through the same thing. And it's going to be a big conversation because a lot of it will intersect around AI. AI will want more data. We will want better understanding of energy. We will want more privacy, so we're going to try. But here's the thing, we have privacy and so when I totally get... I'm not against privacy, I'm just against... The reality is, I don't know and I'm not the smartest person on the planet, I don't know anything else in nature that's been granted privacy. Now, humans have been granted privacy by humans, but nature doesn't really go that route. Nature is like, it's my way or the highway always, and that's why we always have second order effects with everything. And so nature, the natural state of keeping secrets is actually not real, like it's not organic. And so that's why in the world of addiction, so alcohol, whatever it is, whatever your poison is, they have a thing that is saying that says secrets make us sick. And that means whenever the secret is, it's going to manifest inside and it starts creating all these third party accidental effects just from the manifestation or from the keeping it. So people that, you know, they might crash their car drunk or something like that. Tiger Woods, yeah, crash car drunk. He's like, oh, were you drinking? No, no, no. It's like this, the secrets are creating this sickness from you. And like in addiction, a lot of the time is because people keep their addiction from others. And so they go, well, secrets make you sick in that world because you're not sharing the most authentic and you're trying to control things too much. So when I look at the world, like the Earth, I think there has to be a pretty big enlightenment moment. But I think right now, the layers of Earth, like as in humanity, I don't think they're going to hold very long. Like this shadow elite with elites, with plebs, with homeless people, like that structure just doesn't work. And I don't think it's going to work for very long. And here we go. Like so you see people breaking into like Epstein Island, right? Like these people are like, no, I need to know everything. That desire, that's not organic need. That's their dopamine center, like a zombie with blood lust almost. They are that frothing over it. That's going to happen with everything. And so the mankind will not tolerate a secret, I don't think. Especially after if we like kind of replay history, at least like the hardships, I think it's going to become more of a we're all one, and we all like many hands make light work all on the same team perspective instead of a kill or be killed perspective. And now to get to that level of you're okay and I'm okay, and we're both okay as one, that's where haves and have nots can't exist anymore. So we have to get to that level of sort of peace and okayness with each other. We have to have it so that you can't be envious of something I have and vice versa. So if you have more than I have, or if I have more than you have, and that can mean what I'm sort of circling on is energy. So we can't control it. I mean, that's the flow. Everything comes back from energy. You have lots of it, you have none of it. You have water, you have resources. So no, we've got no water in the middle of Africa. Well, fuck, everything is going to be expert mode. Great example, water in the Middle East, the deserts. So Amman, or Kuwait, 740% of their annual water production is used. So they use seven point, imagine getting paid 100 grand a year and spending 750 grand, even better. So Dubai, they get paid 100 grand a year water budget, right? I think theirs is like 46, so 46 times, so 4600%. So that's like me spending 4.6 million dollars a year when I get paid 100 grand a year. Now, naturally, that is fighting, we're fighting the natural order very much, trying to put water in the desert. Like now that's not a bad thing. It's great. We're expanding, da-da-da, but sooner or later, we'll realize that fighting the natural order to try and be the masters of our own destiny is probably a shorter story for mankind than it is for how do we all lift each other up and win. And you know, because that's right now, countries are trying to win. People are trying to, individuals are trying to win. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone, you buy all your ship from China. And what are you going to sit there and say, you don't like China?

Speaker 2:
[84:42] For good, stop buying it then.

Speaker 1:
[84:44] Let's see how happy you are. No, you wouldn't be. So show some gratitude. Russia, science, medicine and mathematics, unreal. Let's imagine we go, like imagine you're in a group project and everyone's got to do all of the parts. It's like, no, who is the history guy? Okay, you're really good at ancient history. You're doing the Egypt part.

Speaker 2:
[85:05] You're really good at modern history.

Speaker 1:
[85:06] You're doing World War II. It's like delegate to expertise.

Speaker 3:
[85:11] I mean, it sounds like an entire shift from a sort of scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset from everyone.

Speaker 1:
[85:16] Everyone. But that's everyone has to have their needs met. And so the needs started basically food, water, shelter. And now money is unfortunately this artificial need that we've kind of injected into the stack. But the removal of money, which is probably where it goes, money is only a stopgap solution. It's sort of like, oh yeah, I've got cheese and crackers because the pizzas are running late. Like, you know, kind of it's like here, fill up on this and in the meantime, because we can't teleport energy around. So we needed to make some currency that represented give a shit. I mean, labor, right? Like, hey, you put a shovel, here's this give a shit. So we call that gold or whatever. But the biggest threat to Bitcoin, generally speaking, is actually apathy. So people don't need money anymore. Why not? Because everything just works. We've got all these autonomous energy systems and blah, blah, blah. And then that ushers in the potential for a new creative renaissance, basically. And a lot of people have talked about this and Bitcoin is Venice and all this. Beautiful, incredible foresight from these smart cats in the industry. But that's sort of what it does. So now when you and I are not thinking, fuck, did I get that Excel spreadsheet in on time? Shit, is the bus running late? Is that canceled? Is that my bus or the next bus? And blah, blah, blah, and I've been at work all day. I haven't thought anything about my purpose. I've just been like surviving. Now, if you give everyone back all that time and effort and excitement or zest or enthusiasm, where does it go? And so people probably aren't rushing to build, you know, oh dude, I've got the best thing. What is it? Yeah, you come into an office for 40 years and there's no sunlight and there's mad dry air condition. And you're like, out of here. Like, stupid suggestion. But it's like, I think that ushers in a new era of almost like we made it through the hardest part possible and everyone gets to have a beautiful life. Right now, it's like, bro, like, we got so lucky being born. I'm the luckiest human being I know, born in Australia. There's no bomb flying over my head, like running water like two seconds down the road. There's a beach, there's people, people are happy, people are nice, people are sort of chilled, like unreal. But like, imagine someone who didn't even choose to be here. They didn't ask to come, oh yeah, can I come to Earth, please? They didn't even ask to be here.

Speaker 2:
[87:38] And they come out like, and they're like, fuck it, what the? Why am I even here?

Speaker 1:
[87:43] I didn't ask to be here, you know? And so it's like, I don't know, but I think we're going that direction where we're sort of finding a way to meet everyone's needs. But I definitely think there's like, we need to clean up a lot of the governance structure of Earth. Like right now, I don't know what's happening, but watching what happened in the US over the past six to 12 months, with all the punishment from all these FBI blacked out notes and redacted notes, it's like, what the fuck is even going on? Clearly, you're not working for the people paying the taxes. And it's just like, that whole whatever kind of needs to be pulled out before you can kind of have a healthy system. I don't really know how they do that, because that's sort of the way that we've been living forever, so.

Speaker 3:
[88:35] Maybe that's what Bitcoin is for. Like, if we are going to live in a post-money world, like maybe Bitcoin is here to starve the beast and get us to that.

Speaker 1:
[88:43] So I've got this theory that there's like infinite many universes, like we're all like every decision sort of spawns a new universe. And I was thinking, I was saying to my brother a while ago, I was like, bro, I reckon we're in the universe that invented Bitcoin for all the other universes. But the caveat is that we made it, so every other timeline gets it forever, but we won't have it long term. And like something like that, like we kind of break it ourselves or something, but everyone else doesn't get the broken version and we kind of, who knows? But I'll tell you what, imagine if we did not have Bitcoin right now. Imagine not having it. It would be like, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2:
[89:23] Like where do you put your money?

Speaker 1:
[89:24] What do you do? And then basically the strategy is, how do you preserve your wealth? We just put it where everyone's money laundering. Literally, if I'm a government and I'm laundering money or whatever, it's like, where are you guys putting it? Or we put it in the store. Okay, cool. He's going to put it there too. And so Bitcoin needs to be the best vehicle for people to launder money, so that people will park it there and pump money. It's not very good for, this is so weird. The counterproductive thing is like, Bitcoin is terrible for money laundering. It's like people are like, I'm money laundering Bitcoin. It's like, dude, no one wants to walk on the street with their dick out.

Speaker 2:
[89:56] Like, why the fuck would anyone do that with Bitcoin?

Speaker 1:
[89:58] It's the same thing. Like, so anyway, who knows? But I think there's a lot of excitement on the horizon. And yeah, we're pretty blessed right now to see, like we haven't even talked about, like Claude and Chachavit getting better in three years. Where could they be in three years? Like just to show you how hot it is.

Speaker 3:
[90:17] That gets back to the exponentials though. Like I have no prediction of where it will be.

Speaker 1:
[90:20] It's like, it's like, oh dude, three years ago, oh, was that before it could launch Rockets to Mars?

Speaker 2:
[90:24] You haven't even been to Mars, dude.

Speaker 1:
[90:26] Oh, dude, last 18 months have been crazy.

Speaker 2:
[90:29] I'm going to be like, tell me everything.

Speaker 1:
[90:32] I'm Cain.

Speaker 2:
[90:32] Like it's almost like that.

Speaker 1:
[90:34] And now that's the problem for entrepreneurs now, is they have to choose, choose their destiny almost. So you want to build a company, you got to choose correctly, like very difficult. So you're in a great position where you're like a, you know, hosting a podcast. It's like, you're the personality, you are the talent, like you and your likeness is the talent. But it's like, dude, if I'm a front-end engineer doing HTML, CSS, JavaScript, it's like, I don't know where I'm going from there. Like, and I don't know what that's thinking about doing then.

Speaker 3:
[91:07] But what stops someone just creating AIME, taking all the transcripts to all my context and putting that into some like AI podcast?

Speaker 1:
[91:16] That is the thing.

Speaker 3:
[91:17] There's no way my job's safe either.

Speaker 1:
[91:18] No, no, no. So this is actually really interesting because one of the person that's had the most of that done to them is Alan Watts. So Alan Watts, the philosopher. So he's brilliant, the most brilliant speaker I've ever heard in my entire life. There's never an ounce of fat on any of his sentences. Anyway, but what people do now is in the same way they do it to like Joe Rogan, where they'll take Alan Watts' speeches and they'll go, chat to me, write something that sounds like it was written by Alan Watts. And then people speak and they'll put a bunch of like, you know, rivers and creeks overlaid over the sounds. So now you don't know what's real and what's not real. And so this is what happens, right? So we're talking about this merging between you and me, but we're becoming one, like, so we're becoming one. If you're holding on, the last thing you have is your likeness. It's not your voice. Your voice, that was deepfake three years ago. Your body now is deepfake now as well, but your likeness, like, write it like Danny, here's a hundred podcasts he's done, write it like he would write it. You can see in like script writing now with people on TV shows, a lot of script writing has to accommodate for people. Like, this is another thing, right? The data set of AI is going to be trained on these changes and adaptations that we've had to AI. So the script, for example, in Netflix shows, they have a new script writing sort of strategy because so much of the audience can't follow old script writing styles because there's too much context because no one's watching. So people like, they're looking up every 20 seconds, but they're not following. So that's why you find these scripts that sound so ridiculous. It's like, hey, I'm glad I met you on the Battleship. Hey, great. And the Battleship we just got to? Yeah, we're about to take off. Awesome. I'm glad we met on the Battleship. Let's go into battle. Great. This is the perfect Battleship for it.

Speaker 3:
[93:12] It's so depressing. They have to make the scripts scrollable, meaning you can be scrolling your phone while you watch it and still follow the story. And they make it like they have key moments that are memeable. These are things that actually go into production now. It's so depressing.

Speaker 1:
[93:26] 100%. And so that in itself is shaping and creating the possibility of what that art format can actually deliver. And then it's making the AI stupider because it's like, you mean to tell me you guys are so dumb, you can't listen for 30 seconds? No, it's down to five seconds. Next year, it's going to be down to one second. And that's actually a thing, by the way. We're all slowly getting autism.

Speaker 3:
[93:49] But 100%. And that kills me. It's the commoditization of all mass media, like music, film, any form of art. And I also don't think it's real. Because when you see... What's the guy called who did to Oppenheimer? I forgot his name.

Speaker 1:
[94:07] Christopher Nolan.

Speaker 3:
[94:08] Yeah, Christopher Nolan. He's coming out with a new film, all shot on IMAX film. These are things that people actually want, like real stories. Because people want to escape. It's escapism.

Speaker 1:
[94:19] 100%. And that's the art form.

Speaker 2:
[94:22] The art form is in...

Speaker 1:
[94:23] Oh, you know, cinema is art. Music is art. Now, the problem is, when you get things that people like and you get a system that tries to duplicate that, you basically get bastardization. So it's like, now, if you're a movie studio, so let's say you've got this art cinema. Now, times are getting harder in the real world. Outside of cinema, times are getting harder. So what does a movie studio exec say? Hey, do we make that new original picture or...

Speaker 3:
[94:51] Avengers 8.

Speaker 1:
[94:52] Well, we can guarantee a good quarter if we make Marvel Super Heroes 7.

Speaker 2:
[94:57] Oh, fuck it.

Speaker 1:
[94:58] Do you think people talk?

Speaker 2:
[94:59] We've already done all the data.

Speaker 1:
[95:01] We'll lose 80% of the fan base, but this quarter will actually double our revenue. Great, done. And that's why that gets done. But ask any actor on Earth who they want to be in a movie for. They will all tell you, first up, one name, Christopher Nolan. You know why? Because he's not the money grab anymore. He is the talent where people are like, whatever he does, it's going to be unreal. So it's what used to be. You get that same feeling of like, they are good at their craft. The same way we used to look at actors and be like, whoa, they're good.

Speaker 2:
[95:33] It's like, that's all just cookie cutter popcorn shit.

Speaker 1:
[95:36] And the same way music's the same, because these guys, their capital, they're trying to make money. So they're not trying to add to the art industry. They're just trying to make money. And so they're like, well, this makes more money. Now Christopher Nolan has earned his stripes, where basically he calls the shots now. He's got the dramatically good track record that says, it's my way or the highway. Thank you. And they go, yep.

Speaker 3:
[95:57] But also, when he does those films, the actors take like 20% of their normal paycheck to do it, as opposed to doing like an Avengers film, because they want to be a part of it.

Speaker 1:
[96:05] They are like, this guy, that is the LeBron James, the Michael Jordan. That's like playing on the winning team, because everything else is boring to them. There's no challenge in being Wolverine for the sixth time and getting that $240 million paycheck and going to the same bar and being on the same tour. Oh yeah, yeah, he had gray claws this time. Wow. I mean, like, they don't feel part of, like, the best of the best. Now, if you're in a Christopher Nolan movie, you made it. And that's why actors now, there is no acting. It's like, they got the, the Rock is not an actor. The Rock is a wrestling star who's enthusiastic about entertainment, sure, but he's not an actor. And like Russell Crowe, he's an actor. Like the Rock, not an actor. And they realize that it's actually quite easy to bridge the gap between fame and acting. And it's just sort of an extended revenue stream for the, for the famous person singing or acting, right?

Speaker 3:
[97:01] I don't think you watched The Smashing Machine. The Rock was an actor in that.

Speaker 1:
[97:04] Oh, The Smashing Machine, I haven't seen. So I gave The Rock, he was on Fortnite recently. And I was at the shits because I was like, fucking The Rock.

Speaker 2:
[97:11] He's like, look, cool.

Speaker 1:
[97:12] I love him in a vibe, but he's like super like whores himself out for everything. Like one of the frustrating things about that is the team I chose in Fortnite, the Rock is on the other team. This sounds stupid, but the Rock in all his contracts has a, the Rock can't lose clause. So in all of this stuff, the Rock is not allowed to lose. Oh, you see a photo of the Rock fell off a cliff in Jumanji 7. Yeah, but at the bottom of the cliff, he was there and he built a hut and he was safe, and he killed all the villagers or something. I don't know. But that's a funny thing to have baked in because again, they're not even about entertainment, they're about brand preservation. Isn't that wild to think?

Speaker 3:
[97:50] I just love that you're like trying to solve novel math problems and playing Fortnite. They're your two hobbies.

Speaker 1:
[97:56] I'm the best, dude. You got to have the mad disconnect. You got to be 100 percent in something and then absolutely not in it.

Speaker 2:
[98:05] Yeah, but nothing is solved yet, just still stupid.

Speaker 3:
[98:10] Michael, this has been fucking awesome. I love talking to you. I feel like I don't know which ways up, but I had a good time.

Speaker 1:
[98:18] But dude, text me if there's anything you hear and you're like, oh, actually, that made sense. I'll ask him about that again. But always down and I really appreciate it. And congrats on a bunch of awesome episodes, by the way. I've been like boring my ears out to you for the past, like, I don't know, month listening to some bangers. So thanks, it's awesome.

Speaker 2:
[98:35] I love it.

Speaker 3:
[98:36] Thank you, man. And we need to do this more regularly. I'm going to come down to Sydney soon and we should do it again.

Speaker 2:
[98:40] Awesome.

Speaker 1:
[98:41] Dude, I've got a spare room. You can crash at mine.

Speaker 3:
[98:43] There you go. Done. Thank you, man. I will speak to you soon. This has been so much fun.

Speaker 1:
[98:50] Awesome. Thanks so much, mate.