transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:00] You know, Ray, I was thinking about that, like the offensiveness of truth. It really all does come down to sin, doesn't it? Like, people are ultimately offended because what you're telling them deals with sin, whether it's their rejection of God, or it's their violation of the commandments. Because I'm thinking, imagine if you remove the element of sin from it all. Well, we'd be an Eden still, but that really is at the core of it. That is the greatest offensive man. You're telling me I'm wrong, you're telling me I'm a sinner. I'm good. Right?
Speaker 2:
[00:31] A man sees himself as being on the throne. He's the one with authority. Sorry, the commandments were written in stone with the finger of God. They're not going to change. They're written on your heart via your conscience, and you can sear that, but you're not going to sear that law. It's permanent. It's around. You're not going to get away with it. Nobody's going to get away with a thing, and that's what's offensive.
Speaker 1:
[00:57] Scenes from this morning's musings from the brain of the insane Zwayne. Oscar Navarro, doing laps in a swimming pool full of coffee. Ray Comfort, tunneling through a loaf of sourdough bread the size of a bus. How does that sound?
Speaker 2:
[01:16] I love it.
Speaker 1:
[01:16] Yeah. I could see it. Mark Spence, hula hooping while bouncing on a pogo stick. I can't.
Speaker 3:
[01:24] I can see that.
Speaker 1:
[01:27] Oh, what I'd give to see that, Mark. Tell us again. What was your record?
Speaker 3:
[01:32] Oh, boy. I don't know. It was like 10 hours or so.
Speaker 1:
[01:36] That's just stupid.
Speaker 3:
[01:37] Did I ever tell you about the time when I worked at Mimi's Cafe and I had to wear this bow tie and this cummerbund? Really nice. And I lived probably about four miles away from where I actually worked. And I got dropped off at work and I failed to bring a backup set of clothes to ride home. So I went inside of Marshall's, which is right next to the place and I picked up a pair of shorts. And I rode home in those shorts. And when I got home, I found out that they were not shorts. They were shorty pajamas. So I wore these shorty pajamas all the way home.
Speaker 1:
[02:15] Wait, Mark, did you actually say cummerbund?
Speaker 3:
[02:18] Cummerbund.
Speaker 1:
[02:18] Remember cummerbunds?
Speaker 3:
[02:19] Yeah, that's what we had to wear.
Speaker 1:
[02:20] They wear them anymore, cummerbunds?
Speaker 3:
[02:22] I don't think so.
Speaker 1:
[02:23] Oh, man. Yeah, cummerbunds. I could see Oscar getting back in the cummerbunds. I'm wearing one right now. With grandma's sweater.
Speaker 2:
[02:31] So what's a cummerbund?
Speaker 1:
[02:33] Cummerbund?
Speaker 3:
[02:34] It's supposed to receive, take your crumbs and stuff so it doesn't go on your lap.
Speaker 1:
[02:38] Stop.
Speaker 3:
[02:38] Yeah, and I think that's the origin. That really was.
Speaker 2:
[02:41] You mean it's like a kangaroo pocket?
Speaker 1:
[02:43] It's, you know, those things, it goes around your waist when you wear a tuxedo.
Speaker 3:
[02:45] Yeah, and they go up.
Speaker 1:
[02:46] They don't go up anymore.
Speaker 4:
[02:47] The etymology of cummerbund is cummer, a cucumber made of lumber, in a bun.
Speaker 3:
[02:53] Thank you, Oscar, Dr. Strangefire. Mr. Cumberbund.
Speaker 2:
[02:57] Lift the lidle.
Speaker 1:
[02:57] Strangefire. Guys, what's, but seriously though.
Speaker 4:
[03:00] Strange.
Speaker 1:
[03:01] This is what I want to know. Who was the first person to do a hula hoop?
Speaker 3:
[03:04] Joe.
Speaker 1:
[03:05] Mark, would you ever do a hula hoop?
Speaker 3:
[03:07] I can't do it. I've tried. No, I did. I went into Oscar's office. I grabbed the one out of his closet and I said, I think I can try to do this.
Speaker 1:
[03:14] The one with sparkles on it?
Speaker 3:
[03:15] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[03:16] You weren't supposed to use that one.
Speaker 1:
[03:17] I'd seriously, I'd love to see Mark trying to do a hula hoop. It would really be a sight.
Speaker 3:
[03:25] I can't move my hips like that. That is totally your culture though.
Speaker 1:
[03:30] Lebanon? Belly dancing. I guess it is.
Speaker 3:
[03:32] That's why they could do it.
Speaker 4:
[03:33] How often do you belly dance? Easy.
Speaker 1:
[03:35] Like nightly.
Speaker 3:
[03:37] Did you force Rachel to learn?
Speaker 1:
[03:38] We do it before family devotions every night. Force what?
Speaker 3:
[03:42] Did you force Rachel to learn how to do that?
Speaker 1:
[03:44] Oh, God forbid, God forbid.
Speaker 2:
[03:49] First person was in Australia and it was made of cane.
Speaker 1:
[03:53] Cumberbite?
Speaker 2:
[03:53] Yeah, bamboo, sorry, bamboo in Australia. And then some called whammo produced 25 million in just a few months.
Speaker 1:
[04:00] What?
Speaker 4:
[04:01] Someone called whammo?
Speaker 1:
[04:02] You mean the twinkie? Wait, hula hoop was in Australia?
Speaker 2:
[04:06] Yeah, it was made of bamboo.
Speaker 1:
[04:07] Oh, then I want to see Kent Ham do it.
Speaker 2:
[04:09] 1958 is when it kind of started. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[04:13] Yeah, right. Let's go ahead and take some.
Speaker 4:
[04:15] For our listeners who don't know, Kent Ham is EZ's pet pig.
Speaker 1:
[04:19] Yeah, porky. Oh, I saw something. Okay, I got to bring this up, because you guys got to see this. I came across this and it was brilliant.
Speaker 4:
[04:29] There should be a rule about using your phones during a podcast.
Speaker 1:
[04:31] Do you know it's impossible to say good, I, might, like good and then I and then, you know, with all your might.
Speaker 3:
[04:40] I might.
Speaker 1:
[04:41] I might without sounding Australian. Try it, Oscar. I might.
Speaker 4:
[04:47] I might.
Speaker 3:
[04:49] He did it.
Speaker 1:
[04:49] Nice try.
Speaker 3:
[04:50] What do you mean, nice try?
Speaker 1:
[04:52] I might.
Speaker 2:
[04:52] No, that's that sound.
Speaker 3:
[04:53] You're throwing in the accent. He for sure did it.
Speaker 1:
[04:56] I might.
Speaker 2:
[04:57] Spirit of nausea just came on me. Isn't this horrible?
Speaker 4:
[05:02] I might.
Speaker 3:
[05:03] I might.
Speaker 4:
[05:04] Boy, guys, I just got a notification. Our listeners are plummeting.
Speaker 1:
[05:10] Conclusion.
Speaker 2:
[05:11] Listen, yeah, good I might.
Speaker 1:
[05:13] Well, friends, today we have a special guest here in the studio, Robert Douglas, the 45th. What is it about adding numbers that makes someone's name?
Speaker 4:
[05:23] Is he really the 45th?
Speaker 1:
[05:25] Probably. Douglas somehow. Yeah, Rob Douglas. We go way back. First name Rob, last name Douglas. Give him a teddy bear and tell him, you'll snuggle this.
Speaker 3:
[05:35] So we went to Bible College together, Rob and I, and no, not you. You said you'd never attend, but no way. Everybody coveted Rob's bunk. Why? Because he's Mr. MacGyver.
Speaker 1:
[05:49] Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:
[05:50] He had a coffee machine with a light switch and lights, and he totally decked out his bunk because he is Mr. MacGyver. He can figure out anything.
Speaker 1:
[06:00] Oh, Rob was a techie.
Speaker 3:
[06:00] He hotwired a car when we were in India together. Where do you learn how to do that? I have no idea.
Speaker 1:
[06:05] Seriously, Rob. Yeah, he was always a techie guy.
Speaker 3:
[06:08] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[06:08] And yeah, I remember Rob from high school because he'd cruise around on his Harley, Mohawk.
Speaker 2:
[06:16] Are you serious? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[06:18] Those are cool, dude.
Speaker 1:
[06:20] Yeah. But yeah, we go way back, pastored together back in the day. So he's here today observing how to do a podcast, which based on how we open today, how not to do it. Yeah. But Rob's such a blessing. Anyway, I don't care about Rob. All right, friends, time for a cool, classy comment. Where is it? Here it is. Oh, by the way, Rob's son. Shout out to Judah Douglas, who listens regularly. He's still listening, Rob? Yeah. Rob hears it blaring through his house every day.
Speaker 4:
[06:51] Judah, where did these families get these names from?
Speaker 3:
[06:54] I know.
Speaker 1:
[06:54] Judah, whatever.
Speaker 3:
[06:55] Did Judah bend her?
Speaker 1:
[06:56] All right. From Anna Boy. Dear EZ, Ray, Mark and Oscar, my mom recommended listening to the podcast almost two years ago. I didn't want to give something so impactful a try. I didn't know it yet. I listened to sermons, kept reading the word and went to church, but I felt a gap. I absolutely hated. I knew that gap was me needing God, almost forgetting who I was created for. Listening to every episode has helped me so much from these past eight years of heartbreak, slight depression, frustration, trauma in life and my mock with God. I was eight when I repented. I felt like I was alone. I was eight when I repented, but while I truly knew I needed him, when I truly knew I needed him, I was 16. During that, I felt like I was alone, I needed to be tough and there wasn't any good outcome in life no matter what. He has shown and taught me so much through each of your episodes, but finding beauty and brokenness episode was a breakthrough. And that I knew I was kneeling before my heavenly father. I'm 18 now and I can't wait to be with him for eternity. Because of God, I have a testimony and he has used the four of you to be a part of it. After everything, this stuck with me. He thanked God and took courage, Acts 28-15. Thank you, EZ Ray, Mark and Oscar for not giving up and seeking him through it all, even through the hard conversations and presentations. Your sister in Christ, Anna, boy. Luke 27-39, my life verse that my parents gave me.
Speaker 2:
[08:23] So that was Julia's episode, but Julia was in?
Speaker 1:
[08:26] Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:
[08:27] What's the name of her book?
Speaker 4:
[08:29] Yeah, your daughter's book that she wrote.
Speaker 1:
[08:31] Broken and Beautiful.
Speaker 2:
[08:32] Yeah, Broken and Beautiful.
Speaker 1:
[08:33] All Things Broken and Beautiful.
Speaker 2:
[08:34] It is a beautiful book.
Speaker 1:
[08:35] It really is, man. I was talking to someone yesterday and telling them, but what I talked about on the episode, the day that I realized that the student, because I taught her stuff about poetry, had exceeded her teacher.
Speaker 3:
[08:46] Well, it's not that hard.
Speaker 1:
[08:47] She was three years old when it happened. The roses are red, violet is blue. You love me, I love you.
Speaker 3:
[08:52] Not too difficult, really.
Speaker 1:
[08:53] Not that good, true. All right, for anybody else. Oh, shout out, shout out. Oscar didn't see it. To our friends in Belize, Living Waters Podcast, the number eight top Christian podcast in the country. Belizable.
Speaker 4:
[09:09] Home Belize.
Speaker 1:
[09:10] Rob Douglas has been to Belize. Rob, you've been to Belize, right? Yeah, we got homies in Belize. So shout out to our Belisian brethren. We got to get out there too. Of course you do.
Speaker 2:
[09:20] How do you go out for 28 days?
Speaker 1:
[09:21] What's that?
Speaker 2:
[09:22] Go out for 28 days?
Speaker 1:
[09:23] Never.
Speaker 3:
[09:24] Belisian? Are they called Belisians?
Speaker 1:
[09:26] Rob Belisians? Yeah, Rob knows.
Speaker 3:
[09:28] There's believers in Belisian.
Speaker 1:
[09:30] Believers in Belisian Belize. All right, friends. And now, Radically Revolutionary Resources Podcast. My team. My Comfort Is Jesus 365 Day Devotions for Morning and Evening. This morning, Ray, I recommended it to a friend. And then I went in and I, well, I called you and I asked you some questions about it. But what I love about it is it has a Bible reading plan, but it's got Old Testament in the morning, New Testament in the evening, plus Psalms. Did you remember that, Ray?
Speaker 2:
[10:03] Remember what?
Speaker 1:
[10:03] That it had that.
Speaker 2:
[10:05] No.
Speaker 1:
[10:05] No, because you couldn't even tell me when I called you.
Speaker 4:
[10:08] Wait, do you know who wrote the book, My Comfort Is Jesus?
Speaker 1:
[10:11] Who wrote it, right?
Speaker 2:
[10:11] I did, I wrote it, yeah.
Speaker 1:
[10:12] So tell us about it, Ray.
Speaker 2:
[10:14] It's a devotion, a devotional 365-day devotional. In the morning, it's the Old Testament, and the New Testament is in the evenings.
Speaker 1:
[10:21] Yeah. Isn't it funny though, Ray, that like when you were writing that thing and you're talking what, 730 or whatever. So, but when you were doing it, it was all consuming, all you could think about. Now you just hardly remember it.
Speaker 2:
[10:34] Yeah. It's forgetting that which is behind.
Speaker 1:
[10:36] That's Ray's life. Move on to the next thing. Anyway, friends, check it out. Don't forget The Living Waters Mug, The Evidence Study Bible, The Living Waters TV, all that. Living Waters, and don't forget the podcast YouTube channel, where there are tens of thousands of subscribers. Check it out. All right, guys, today we're talking about the myth of 1.6 million subscribers. What'd I say?
Speaker 2:
[11:03] Tens of thousands.
Speaker 1:
[11:04] No, no, I'm talking about the podcast YouTube channel.
Speaker 2:
[11:07] Okay.
Speaker 1:
[11:07] You weren't listening. Did you get offended, Ray?
Speaker 2:
[11:10] Oh, we've got a podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 1:
[11:12] Podcast?
Speaker 2:
[11:13] It's on YouTube.
Speaker 1:
[11:15] Someone hit the trap door button, please. All right. Wait, Mark, why are you so lowly today?
Speaker 3:
[11:21] He reset. No, I reset.
Speaker 1:
[11:23] Oh, you did?
Speaker 3:
[11:24] I was like this.
Speaker 2:
[11:26] You need some coffees.
Speaker 1:
[11:27] I do.
Speaker 3:
[11:28] Just for Ray. But I came back up.
Speaker 1:
[11:30] What a humble guy.
Speaker 2:
[11:30] That's so nice.
Speaker 1:
[11:32] You still look lower than usual, no?
Speaker 3:
[11:33] Well, I'm not on a cushion like you guys.
Speaker 1:
[11:36] Right. All right. The myth of my truth, how postmodernism is devouring a generation. So yeah, guys, it's all about feelings and feelings becoming sacred while truth has become offensive. Feelings.
Speaker 2:
[11:55] Feelings. I knew that was coming.
Speaker 4:
[11:59] I saw his head click into it. I'm like, oh no, here we go.
Speaker 1:
[12:03] Is there something that I do?
Speaker 2:
[12:04] Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[12:05] There's a little spark of like excitement.
Speaker 3:
[12:09] Nothing more than feelings.
Speaker 1:
[12:12] Hey, we get a lot of demands that I sing on this podcast.
Speaker 4:
[12:16] From you.
Speaker 1:
[12:18] Mark's my only support.
Speaker 3:
[12:20] I will always be your backup singer.
Speaker 1:
[12:22] I love it. So yeah, guys, you know.
Speaker 3:
[12:26] Haven't thought about it yet.
Speaker 1:
[12:27] My truth. No, but listen. How many times have you said that?
Speaker 3:
[12:32] It's like you're reaching for it. It's just not there.
Speaker 1:
[12:34] It's why?
Speaker 2:
[12:35] It's further away. The older you get.
Speaker 1:
[12:37] I know it's there, but it's not there yet, but I know it's coming.
Speaker 3:
[12:39] Because we keep interrupting your sanity with our insanity.
Speaker 2:
[12:43] As you get older, that is further and further away. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:
[12:47] OK, but speaking of true, my truth. I don't know how you guys feel that. I don't know what it is about that phrase. It drives me nuts. But it's become common.
Speaker 2:
[12:58] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[12:58] Well, you know, I just don't let me share with you my truth. What's that mean? Give me insight, guys.
Speaker 2:
[13:05] Yeah, Mark, you go.
Speaker 3:
[13:06] My truth is just a denial of the truth. No, I mean, really, that's it, right? Because when we start talking about truth, I guess we'd have to properly define that, right? Because there are subjective truths that are true.
Speaker 2:
[13:21] Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[13:21] Right? You like chocolate ice cream. I like vanilla ice cream. It is true that you like chocolate ice cream.
Speaker 1:
[13:26] That's a good point.
Speaker 3:
[13:26] But there are truths when we start talking, when we bring the scripture into it, or moral truths, these are objective, transcendent philosophical thoughts and ideas that represent a God who is transcendent, and it never changes. So objective truth will never change. So when someone comes along and says, I don't believe in truth, the response is simply, is that true? Is it true that there is no such thing as truth? And it becomes self-refuting, and they die on their own sword. So we have to begin to explain what this means. I guess maybe dealing with post-modernism, post-modernism. Listen to this, relativism. The philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid and that all truth is relative to the individual. This means that all moral positions and all religious systems are defined by each individual and there is no right or wrong answer to anything. So when Thomas Jefferson said, we find these truths to be self-evident. Maybe, maybe a little asterisk, maybe attached to it. He was referring to something that is outside of ourselves, that all men are created equal and that all men are created in the image of God. And because of that, we are worthy of dignity, honor and respect, regardless of your sexual orientation, regardless of your world view, regardless of fill in the blank. Right.
Speaker 4:
[14:50] Very interesting that you brought that state that that quote up because there's a lot of debate as to why they changed it to self-evident because self-evident actually makes the possibility for subjectivism. So in Thomas Jefferson, determining to write self-evident, he was actually being influenced by the Enlightenment era because self-evident means we've discovered this for ourselves rather than this has been assigned to us by God. In other words, it was an air quotes subjective choice for them to believe in self-evidence. I think it's helpful to take a step back and realize where we've come from. The Enlightenment era was a big influence on us even today. Guys like Emmanuel Kant, I don't know that we realize how much of an influence they were on our language and what we think about. I think a key phrase here to understand how we got to where we are, is that in the Enlightenment era, they wanted to replace revelation for reason. What I mean by that is predating the Enlightenment era, we understood that the best form of truth, of beauty and goodness would be understood in a revelatory way. The ancients would look to transcendence, whether it's God for the Christians or gods for the Greco-Romans. They would look beyond themselves to discover what is true, beautiful and good. And then bring that about in the Enlightenment era. They wanted to do away with that. They didn't want to have revelation as a source of authority. They wanted to have reason as a source of authority. Immanuel Kant's statement is this, enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity, as he calls it. The inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. Dare to know, separe aude, it was like one of his big phrases. Have the courage to use your own understanding is therefore the motto of the enlightenment. And so that idea, that is still embodied in the way a lot of people think. If I walk up to somebody and I say, it's not your truth, it's the truth, they're going to look at me and somewhere in the back of the minds, even if they've never read Immanuel Kant, they're going to think, dare to know. Like you are ignorant for assuming that you have to look to authority for truth when you can find your own truth. And there is that really important subtle lie that exists in our culture today, which leads us to this idea of self-evident knowledge, of knowing my truth over the reality that truth is actually revelatory beyond us.
Speaker 1:
[17:23] But Ray, did you... Okay, you grew up in...
Speaker 4:
[17:29] Well, you stopped at 10.
Speaker 1:
[17:33] You grew up in the 60s, right? Teenager in the 60s? Okay, so have you noticed a shift? Because I think it's hard for me to imagine, because most of my adult life, there's been an offensiveness when it comes to someone declaring absolute truth. Was it that way when you were growing up, too?
Speaker 2:
[17:53] I don't think so. I think the Enlightenment era was the beginning of the Dark Ages intellectually. They just moved into embracing atheism, which is insane. When I meet someone who says, there's no such thing as it's all my truth, I say, well, let's look at the sun right now. Don't really do it because it'll blind you. Just say, I believe the sun is square, it comes out at night and it's made of ice. It's not going to change the sun. So what matters is truth. Your feelings don't matter. And behind all this is the offense at God's moral government. That's what's behind it. They don't want God to lord himself over them. And the natural mind, the counter mind is enmity against God is not subject to the law of God, neither can be. So if the commandments were written in stone, there's a God, there's a judgment day, then what you're doing with your life, you're going to be held accountable. And that's offensive. So that's what's behind it.
Speaker 1:
[18:49] Ray, what I love is the simple illustrations that lead to impact. You know, that illustration about the sun being square, made of ice comes out at night. I use that with a guy. You didn't know that? I use that with a guy named Davin that I witnessed to at Huntington. I think that the video has like half a million views on our YouTube channel. But he was going down that road. Truth is relative. And so I said, okay, the son of a... And he goes, well, well, actually. And he goes, no, actually. He was seriously trying to defend it. And then he stops himself and he goes, no, you're right. But I love that, right? Same thing with painting, painter, building, building. I mean, they're simple, but they break through, you know? And Oscar, here's the thing. Cause like I talked about how my truth drives me crazy.
Speaker 4:
[19:38] Your truth drives me crazy.
Speaker 1:
[19:40] The temptation, though, is to let that frustration seep out when I'm talking to an unbeliever sometimes. Because it's so maddening to me. But how important, though...
Speaker 2:
[19:51] Perhaps if you just slap their face, it would let the...
Speaker 1:
[19:54] Let it out.
Speaker 2:
[19:54] Let it out.
Speaker 1:
[19:55] But be gentle while you do it. Hey, you know, just... But Oscar, how important is our graciousness and our witness as God's people? Winsomeness. Some people hate that word. I like that word because I think that it ties in with a lot of biblical principles. But you've got that graciousness that we don't lose it, even when someone's being so illogical.
Speaker 4:
[20:15] Yeah, that's a really good point. I think it's important. Our theology really matters here to recognize that if not for the grace of God, we would be blind to the truth as well. In other words, the difference between me and the person I'm sitting next to, trying to share the gospel with, isn't that I am more enlightened in him and have figured out the truth. I didn't go on some mystical journey and discover God. God interjected himself into my life. I am nothing but a baker who has found food. And so when I'm pleading with somebody for truth, I'm not trying to hit him over the head because they're dumb and wrong. I am talking to a blind man praying that a miracle of revelatory sight will come about in the conversation that I'm having with him.
Speaker 3:
[21:00] Yeah. I remember talking to an atheist, and we were having a very cordial dialogue, but he was with another atheist who was not very nice, and that not very nice atheist came up and was joining our conversation right when I was talking about the laws of logic. And this not very nice atheist said, there's no such thing as a law of logic. And I said, oh, really? And I said something along the lines of, well, the red chair flies north when the time is purple. Right? And he goes, what? And I go, exactly. So there's laws of logic that govern where we're at. I've always thought, and so I've learned something here today, that we find these truths to be self-evident. I always thought that would mean that God has given us kind of like a conscience, right? That we're not saying that an atheist can't make moral decisions, but they can't account for why that it's moral. They can't account why something is logical, right? Two plus two is four. We're not saying that you cannot count, but you cannot account for counting, right? So we're not saying that you don't know two plus two is four. But where did that come from? Because man did not invent these laws of mathematics. Man merely discovered it through the grace of God, giving that to all people, right? So the laws of logic, the laws of science, the laws of moral absolutes and mathematics. So when we begin to look at these different things, I thought that that self-evident was just innate, that God gave it to us. But you're saying that that self-evident is that we've looked within ourselves and we're saying, no to any transcendent input, I'm going to be my own inputter. Yeah, I think, is that right?
Speaker 4:
[22:34] Self-evident can mean, I think we can use that term to mean what you want it to mean, which is a biblical understanding that God has written his truth in all of our hearts.
Speaker 2:
[22:41] And it's axiomatic.
Speaker 4:
[22:43] Axiomatic. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[22:44] I was about to share that.
Speaker 4:
[22:45] That's good, yeah. Except I think it's, Oh, that Ray.
Speaker 1:
[22:47] Hey, yo, hey, hey, hey. Oh, yeah, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray. You feel good, Ray?
Speaker 2:
[22:52] I just think it's so funny when politicians get up on a stage and start pointing at people. Like, what they're saying, this is what they're trying to get out. I know that guy, he knows me. He knows me. What they're saying in their minds, I haven't got a clue who you are. I would have never seen you in my life, neither you.
Speaker 4:
[23:07] He's like, hey, there's a face.
Speaker 2:
[23:08] It's always the same. Yeah, there's a face.
Speaker 4:
[23:11] But I think what I'm saying is Jefferson was influenced by the Enlightenment era, and there's actually some debate that in a first iteration, a first draft, he was going to use some phrase like, quote from Dawkins, God ordained or God given. I think it was a God given maybe. I don't, don't quote me precisely on that, but then he switched it to self-evident because it was more in line with enlightened thinking.
Speaker 1:
[23:35] That really is definitely enlightening to me, pardon the pun, because I always thought, you know, self-evident, yeah, like Ray said, axiomatic, like these truths, the truths themselves are self-evident, meaning that they don't need any affirmation from others. But you're saying that it could or it definitely did have that.
Speaker 4:
[23:55] During the Enlightenment period, self-evident was Emanuel's can't way of rejecting regulation.
Speaker 1:
[24:01] Oh, wow. That's crazy. It's interesting. You know, these little things like you're quoting it thinking, oh, yeah, self-evident, you know, but...
Speaker 4:
[24:09] Well, I do think it's redeemable. You can say self-evident.
Speaker 1:
[24:11] For sure. But I'm talking about intent.
Speaker 4:
[24:13] Yeah, intent.
Speaker 3:
[24:14] You know, so yeah, context. Yeah, I never saw it.
Speaker 1:
[24:18] Con with with text, writing people with texting, I texting. OK, so the shift is insane.
Speaker 4:
[24:28] That's how his brain actually works, too, by the way.
Speaker 1:
[24:30] The insane Zwayne brain. You know, Ray, I was thinking about that, like the the offensiveness of truth. It really all does come down to sin, doesn't it? Like people are ultimately offended because what you're telling them deals with sin, whether it's their rejection of God or it's their violation of the commandments. Because I'm thinking, imagine if you remove the element of sin from it all. Well, we'd be an Eden still, but that really is at the core of it. That is the greatest offense of man. You're telling me I'm wrong, you're telling me I'm a sinner. I'm good.
Speaker 2:
[25:04] Right? Man sees himself as being on the throne. He's the one with authority. Sorry, the commandments were written in stone at the finger of God. They're not going to change. They're written on your heart via your conscience, and you can sear that, but you're not going to sear that law. It's permanent. It's around. You're not going to get away with it. Nobody's going to get away with a thing, and that's what's offensive. You know, we have a gift of making simple things complex, sometimes, but it really comes back. All this philosophy, this worldly philosophy, comes back to men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. That's just the basis.
Speaker 1:
[25:42] Yeah, you know, I had a... When I was in Australia, we were doing Q&A, and someone asked a question of like, why do people reject, you know, the truth of God? And I gave that answer, man, love darkness rather than light. Like, we hide that, we cover that, you know, and but that at the end of the day is what it comes down to. The sinful nature is alive and well. It doesn't matter how you dress it up. You often talk about this, you know, the whole dynamic that revolves around mortuaries and death. Talk about that all day. I love that.
Speaker 2:
[26:17] Do you really like me going to? Oh, please, please. Yeah, I dropped a friend off at a funeral home, a mortuary recently, and as I sat there, he was alive at the time, as I sat there, I looked at the wall around it, a nice little wall with a little flowers in the front and then a little inviting brick path that you could walk up to go into the mortuary. And we went in there, there was this nice padded seats. Everything was just so nice and sweet, nice soft lighting. When the undertaker came out, he wasn't called an undertaker, he was called a funeral director. The hearse was not a hearse, it's a limousine. The person hadn't died, they had passed, passed on. And when your death day comes, you get your own little plaque with your birthday and your death day on it, a little flower and your name can be put on the plaque. Kind of makes you look forward to your turn, doesn't it? No, a thousand times no. I don't care how much they dress up death, no one in his right mind wants to try it on for size. And that's what torments every human being. But back to the whole men love darkness rather than light. It comes back to the fact that we're criminals doing unlawful deeds in darkness. In comes the gospel light and exposes us. And that's like cockroaches. We just run from the light because we love the darkness more than light. And that's behind evolution. That's behind atheism. Evolution gives license to sinful human beings to fornicate with their girlfriend. Because there's no right, no wrong. There's no moral accountability. But there is. It's like saying there's no gravity. I don't believe in gravity because I can't see it. And I'm going to fly. Look at me jump off a cliff. See, I'm flying. Now you're going to reap the consequences when you hit the ground.
Speaker 1:
[27:58] You know, Mark, I was thinking about how, again, like I was talking about, we dress things up and how, for example, with God, the modern iterations of who God is, you would think, oh, he's just this gentle, constantly smiling, you know, the whole grandpa on a rocking chair in heaven. But I've been reading the Old Testament, I've been in Deuteronomy lately, and I'm like, oh, I'm thinking, have these people read the Bible?
Speaker 2:
[28:25] You can't read Deuteronomy 28. It's just so...
Speaker 1:
[28:29] It's horrifying, yeah, when you see... But Mark, we do that with sinners, though. Like, people are nice, but man, speak to that, the wickedness of the heart of man. There's something about if every baby had the strength of a man, you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3:
[28:46] Yikes.
Speaker 1:
[28:47] They would kill their parents in the night.
Speaker 2:
[28:48] Oh, yeah, give me the food or I'll kill you.
Speaker 3:
[28:51] Well, Joseph Alain said every unconverted man would kill God all over again if he could just get to him. Matthew Henry said that if our hand was cut, it would bleed corruption. Jonathan Edwards, he said, God sees nothing in man to turn his heart, but he sees plenty of man to turn his stomach. And the Bible says that our heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. Who can know it? And who was it? Ben Shapiro said, facts don't care about your feelings. But we are a generation of people who care more about feelings and not offending someone than truth. We need to speak the truth. And I'm not saying we don't speak it in love. We always speak it in love. But we never not speak up because we're afraid that somebody's going to take it wrong. Well, we need to let the cards fall where they may. We need to have a spine, a backbone to be able to speak up. When I'm out talking to guys about abortion out on the street, and when they respond back with, well, I don't have a uterus. And the saying goes, no uterus, no se. But I'll respond back and I go, you may not have a uterus, but you have a spine. So speak up.
Speaker 1:
[30:02] Or do you.
Speaker 3:
[30:03] Yeah, or do you, right? Proverbs 14-12. There's a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death. Seems right, feels convincing, but that doesn't mean that it's true, right? John 17-17, sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth. It's not opinions, it's not emotions. We need to always go back to God's word. And if we're not meditating on God's word as truth, we're going to believe lies are true. And this is why it is so key and so important to always go back to God's word and to meditate on it day and night, like we recently said on one of our last podcasts. We have to get back to that place.
Speaker 4:
[30:48] That phrase, facts don't care about your feelings, is really powerful idiom. I think it's important for us, going back to your thing earlier, which is like how do we have passion when we're talking about the gospel to people? Because I think that phrase is really good in a political conversation.
Speaker 1:
[31:03] Compassion.
Speaker 4:
[31:04] Compassion, what did I say?
Speaker 1:
[31:05] Passion.
Speaker 4:
[31:06] And compassion, yeah. Facts don't care about your feelings, absolutely. I also think it's important for us to recognize feelings are incredibly powerful. And feelings can often feel like facts. And I think it's important for us to recognize that. One thing that I often say to people is like, imagine you have a child, they're three years old and they come running into your room, screaming because they think there's a monster under your bed. In that moment, their feelings feel very real to him, that person, that child. But for you as a loving parent that knows the truth, you're not going to be like, yeah, there is.
Speaker 3:
[31:42] Facts don't care about your feelings.
Speaker 4:
[31:44] You're not going to say facts don't care about your feelings, absolutely. But you're also not going to agree with them and be like, yep, there's probably a monster under your bed. Instead, you're going to walk them through that moment compassionately. I think for many people, we do have to walk through this compassionately because we're unwinding so much thinking that they've adopted through the Enlightenment era. So gentleness is super important. One of the things I like to do is try to use, I think the metaphor of the courtroom is really valuable and Ray does such a great job of this. One thing I'll say to that person is, imagine you're driving down the freeway, you're going 45 miles an hour in a 45-mile-an-hour zone and a police officer pulls you over and it's like, hey, do you know why I pulled you over? Because you were going 80 and you're like, no, I was going 45.
Speaker 3:
[32:25] I would have hit 90.
Speaker 4:
[32:27] And the police officer says to you, well, my truth is that you were going 80, so here's your ticket. That's not exciting to you, right? How do you argue against that? That is you being experiencing justice because of someone else's, quote, feelings. Now let's flip the script a little bit. Let's imagine, God forbid, that someone you love has been murdered. And you're in the courtroom and all of the evidence is obvious, there's eyewitnesses to this. There's no way out of it. And the judge gives the person one last opportunity to speak. And the person says, well, my truth is that I didn't commit the murder. And the judge goes, all right, you got me there. You can go free. See, in that moment, you don't like that because you know that there is an objective truth above it. And what you're doing is experiencing a form of injustice. In other words, when you are experiencing it, you want to hold to objective truth. But when you're the one committing the injustice, especially when you're the one committing the injustice in the courtroom of God, then it's my truth, my feelings, my facts. But the reality is like we all stand in the courtroom of an objective, good and truthful God. And the problem is that we know in our hearts that we've sinned against Him. But the beauty, of course, of the gospel is that the answer isn't to avoid the facts that we are in need of just justice. The beauty of the gospel is we can look to the truth that Jesus has taken on the wrath of God for us, not so that we can avoid the truth, but we could be forgiven by the one who is the truth.
Speaker 1:
[34:07] I love that. And I was thinking about that element of compassion. I was reminded of two things. I was reminded of your interaction with that young lady, Cal State Fullerton, when she was asking about homosexuality. And you talked about the whole thing of respect, protect, reject, and just how the way you did that and how you got off the box and you shook her hand and how that resonated. Mark, I'm thinking of the time when you're on the airplane, you're talking to the guy, I think he might have been a gold medalist or in the Olympics, he was homosexual and you're like, man, and you engaged him and he was blown away, he couldn't believe it. And I'm highlighting those because, and I thought too of the girl too, Mark, who came up to you after we were at a university and said she was dying or something. Yes, I remember that one. Like, man, this is what I'm talking about. We have to be careful because we lose people in the midst of our passion to be right or to feel right, feel, or to save face because we want to seem strong in the moment. Like, man, we are losing people. I would rather a thousand times look unknowledgeable and say I have no idea and maybe lose respect than to lose a person that I'm trying to reach with the gospel. Think of me whatever you might, but at least at the end of the day, walk away thinking, man, there's something about that guy and the way that he spoke to me that says that he really cares. And if this is really what his faith is about, man, maybe I should take another look. I'm talking about in the midst of even speaking gospel truth, but because I think we go to those extremes, right? It's like, hey, friendship evangelism, I'll put that smile on your face and you don't have to say anything. No, we say, but we go to the other extreme of like, it doesn't matter what our actions are. That's hogwash. It does matter. And so it's important.
Speaker 2:
[36:06] Well, it's Francis Assisi. Yeah. I thought of this so-called quote.
Speaker 1:
[36:10] You love that quote, right?
Speaker 2:
[36:11] Yeah. Well, preach the Gospels.
Speaker 1:
[36:14] When necessary, use words.
Speaker 4:
[36:15] You didn't say that.
Speaker 2:
[36:16] Do you want to hear me do that?
Speaker 3:
[36:19] I remember it was Steve Sanchez that changed it to preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary, use amplification. You know, my son Nathaniel just recently ran the LA Marathon.
Speaker 2:
[36:31] Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4:
[36:31] The whole thing didn't stop once.
Speaker 3:
[36:34] Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[36:35] I'm blown away by that.
Speaker 2:
[36:36] He ran it. He organized it.
Speaker 1:
[36:38] You know, Julia's training right now.
Speaker 2:
[36:39] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[36:39] She ran it.
Speaker 2:
[36:41] Half a marathon.
Speaker 1:
[36:41] She did nine miles the other day.
Speaker 2:
[36:43] Yeah. I asked which half she was going to run. What?
Speaker 1:
[36:44] Is she doing half?
Speaker 2:
[36:45] Yeah, half.
Speaker 1:
[36:46] I thought she's doing a whole.
Speaker 2:
[36:47] No, she's doing the second half.
Speaker 1:
[36:48] I'm disappointed.
Speaker 4:
[36:49] Anyways, more about Nathaniel.
Speaker 3:
[36:51] Well, and my daughter is training for an ultra marathon, Catalina, for 50 miles.
Speaker 2:
[36:56] Wow.
Speaker 3:
[36:57] But back to the LA Marathon, you know they gave out medals if you wanted to give up at the 18-mile mark.
Speaker 4:
[37:04] Did they really?
Speaker 3:
[37:05] You still got a medal.
Speaker 4:
[37:05] I'd have taken it.
Speaker 3:
[37:07] You still got a medal.
Speaker 1:
[37:08] Participation medal.
Speaker 3:
[37:10] Yeah. That's where we've... And it's like the real running community, we're just up in arms just saying, that kills the center. This is so bad.
Speaker 2:
[37:17] It kills them center.
Speaker 1:
[37:19] Yeah. Oh, you know.
Speaker 2:
[37:20] We'll bring the finish line up closer to you.
Speaker 1:
[37:24] Yeah. I mean, it's... And by the way, Ray, gold medals, they're not even fully gold. Did you know that, Ray?
Speaker 2:
[37:30] 92% silver. So every gold medalist comes in second. He's a silver medalist.
Speaker 1:
[37:35] Wow. I have to admit, honestly, I guess I'm ignorant, but I didn't even know that they had... That like it had any real gold or silver. I just thought it was a nice metal, like stainless steel. These are like, these are really valuable. They actually have value.
Speaker 2:
[37:50] 80 years ago, they were gold. Like seriously full gold? You're not getting a gold medal from us, but you get silver.
Speaker 3:
[37:56] You know, Notre Dame, the Fighting Irish, they're football helmets. They have real gold inside the paint.
Speaker 4:
[38:02] Oh, I've heard that before.
Speaker 1:
[38:04] Like gold dust or whatever.
Speaker 2:
[38:05] Gold tooth. I never have a gold tooth. You can get it stolen.
Speaker 1:
[38:11] You hear about people stealing dead people's teeth back in the day because they used to use gold.
Speaker 4:
[38:14] How do you think I got this watch?
Speaker 1:
[38:18] I love this quote by Jerry Bridges. We must not allow... Oh, no. Are we going to go to quotes now with the... Only when you do it, though.
Speaker 3:
[38:26] Have you noticed that EZ, when he does start to say a verse, he quickly starts saying it?
Speaker 2:
[38:29] Yes, I understand. Before we can do it. You should have a little gap for us.
Speaker 1:
[38:34] We must not allow our emotions to hold sway over our minds. Truth must rule.
Speaker 2:
[38:42] I feel he's right.
Speaker 1:
[38:44] Truth must rule. But yeah, I mean, guys, emotions are just so powerful.
Speaker 2:
[38:50] Oh, I cry no matter what's going on with the music, it's cry type music on television. If you get rid of the music, you're fine. But the music just sways us.
Speaker 1:
[39:01] No, it does. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[39:02] I also think that that's actually a really good point in that we need to be careful with our words, especially when we're talking about God. Confessionally, I remember in the past, realizing I was using the phrase, I feel when I was trying to gently explain something to somebody about God. But I've since replaced that with, I think, because there's a huge difference between I feel and I think. I think is that I have addressed God's inerrant authoritative word. I've used the logic and the spirit, both that God has given me, and this is the conclusion that I've come to. I feel is like, I don't know, I just, wherever it's coming from, this is the conclusion I've come out of. So I think those little switches in our vocabulary is really important from I think to I feel.
Speaker 2:
[39:49] How do you feel? Are you right now?
Speaker 4:
[39:51] I feel pretty good about saying that.
Speaker 1:
[39:52] I feel you. I feel you.
Speaker 4:
[39:55] I think you.
Speaker 1:
[39:56] Look, let me ask you guys this, and just out of curiosity to see if you're thinking what I'm thinking. What would you say has in our modern culture been the ultimate outworking of I feel in terms of like something visible that we see?
Speaker 4:
[40:14] Queerness.
Speaker 1:
[40:15] Boom. Yeah. Transgenderism, queerness. I feel like I'm a man. I feel like I mean, guys, that is like you have to understand. Like I was watching Bruce Jenner the other day, speaking as Caitlyn Jenner. By the way, you guys know, I gave him a track. He was on my plane. And it was so cool to be able to...
Speaker 2:
[40:39] So was she on your plane?
Speaker 1:
[40:40] In my plane. You didn't know I had a plane? Wait, you haven't heard of my airline?
Speaker 2:
[40:43] You don't feel like you're important? It was my plane.
Speaker 1:
[40:45] You haven't heard of my airline's Zwayne plane? Come on, Ray. Come on. Yeah, but I was hearing him... It's interesting because... And this is where things start getting so twisted. I'm hearing him talking on a conservative news channel as a quote conservative about another transgender, Leah Thompson, that swimmer, and like criticizing him, but calling him her, like it's reality. Like I'm sitting there going, what Twilight Zone am I living in right now? And like, but what was crazy is even the conservative hosts, they kept saying she and she. Like you guys, there has to come a point where we do away with the madness, and that's leading to a point. And the point is...
Speaker 2:
[41:34] No, the emperor has no clothes. That's what's going on.
Speaker 1:
[41:37] The emperor has... Yeah. And yet, the influence of this madness on the church... And look, again, I'm not talking about being unhinged and going crazy on people and being angry. No, but to where we're pulling back truth. Like, what's happening with this? What's going on? Why are we allowing this to happen? And what's the remedy? How do we fight against this and not lose people at the same time?
Speaker 2:
[42:06] You know, I was listening to Mark talk about Jeremiah 17, and there's an interesting part of that verse where it says, who can know it? It ends up, the harder man is to seek for the wicked. Who can know it? And it's saying, who, it's rhetorical, who can know the depth of depravity human nature can go to? And you see it happen in Nazi Germany. And you could see it happen in the US if, and it could never really happen, if law was totally withdrawn from society, no law whatsoever. Guys, see a girl, she's yours. You do what you want on the freeway. Put a Gatling gun on the hood of your car if you want. If someone's annoying, you can shoot them and there's no repercussion. That's when you begin to see the depravity that's in the heart of man. At the moment, law is stopping people killing each other. Law is stopping road rage taking its course. And the time may come when law is completely withdrawn if you believe prophecy.
Speaker 1:
[43:02] Yeah, and you know, I'm thinking about how we play along and how certain things that would have seemed insane are becoming a reality. Mark, I'm thinking about when you're speaking at Cal State Fullerton. Explain that. There were people behind you holding signs.
Speaker 3:
[43:22] Oh, yeah, not behind me, but there were counselors.
Speaker 1:
[43:26] Or in the crowd, like where the crowd was.
Speaker 3:
[43:28] Near signs that said, if you're triggered, come and talk to us. This is a public free speech zone. You have a couple options here. You can engage or you can keep on walking. If you feel threatened, do not engage in the conversation. We're here if you need any counsel, any conversation, any talk.
Speaker 2:
[43:50] In other words, you're intellectual children and we're here as your saviors.
Speaker 3:
[43:53] Yeah, like I would perhaps understand something like that if this was elementary school. But this is a college, a college where we have that free exchange of ideas and thoughts. And we are no longer being taught how to think, we're being told what to think. And we need to be able to not be witty, but we need to be winsome. We're talking about earlier about, hey, I feel like I'm kind of trapped inside of a woman's body as a man. And I heard somebody respond back and say, you know, I was once trapped as a man. I was once trapped inside of a woman's body as well. And then I was born. Or we hear people say, you know, well, I was born this way.
Speaker 2:
[44:36] Is that original?
Speaker 3:
[44:37] No, no, I heard somebody else say that.
Speaker 2:
[44:38] Oh, that's really clear.
Speaker 3:
[44:39] Like you just heard me say it.
Speaker 2:
[44:40] Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3:
[44:41] So I heard somebody else say it. When somebody says, oh, I was born this way, a good response back is, well, that's why you need to be born again. You need to have a renewal of the mind. A rejuvenation needs to take place. So remember that the first lie was that you will be like God. And I think that there's this self-gratifyingness that is attached to the individual who has come up with their own stuff. Like, did you come up with that? Right? And we take pride in that. I came up with that. Or how many times have you heard somebody say, I wish I came up with that. Right? That's so good. I wish I should have. Man, I don't know why I didn't think of that, you know, before. Because we are the apex of our own lives. And we think that we deserve to be worshiped. Why? Because we worship ourselves. So, of course, you should worship us. No, we would never say it. Right? But how many times do we just, or how long do we just kind of stay in front of the mirror? Admiring ourselves.
Speaker 2:
[45:41] I threw mine out.
Speaker 3:
[45:44] We did actually have somebody in here who just stood in front of the mirror. And I was just like amazed how often they were just looking at themselves in front of the mirror before they came on camera.
Speaker 1:
[45:54] Yeah, Oscar. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
[45:56] Oh, come on.
Speaker 3:
[45:57] It was one of you guys, right?
Speaker 1:
[45:59] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[45:59] I can't reach it.
Speaker 4:
[46:01] I can't reach it. I don't even know where the mirror is.
Speaker 2:
[46:03] All I see is a forehead.
Speaker 3:
[46:04] My wife is short and she puts the mirrors, all the mirrors around the house are like this.
Speaker 2:
[46:08] So I have to like, tuck down to see.
Speaker 1:
[46:10] There are things in scripture that I think have the potential to save an entire culture if people would take heed. And, you know, think about what it says in the Book of Judges, you know, there was no king. Everyone did what was right in their own eyes.
Speaker 3:
[46:28] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[46:29] And I mean, that really is, you know, tied to feelings in some way. It's like that is that's my perception of what's right. That's what, you know, I think I need to do and get done. And we look at the Book of Judges, I mean, what a chaotic nightmare.
Speaker 3:
[46:44] Yeah, even consider that, right? That Judges 17, 6, when there was no leader or no king in Israel, every man did that which was right in his own eyes. So what is the inference there? That leaders, good leaders are going to thwart that way of thinking. That when you have somebody in church, because we tend to follow the leader, we follow the leaders who are before us. We mimic their behavior. This is why it's important to have a strong nuclear family, because the kids are going to follow the leaders. They're going to follow mom, follow dad, and what are they doing? How are they leading? Because they are going to catch what you are teaching. Eventually it's going to happen like that, right? So the inference is just very simple, that we need to have good leaders, and if there's not good leaders in the White House, we'll make sure that there's good leaders in our house and let the kids follow us. In the right house.
Speaker 4:
[47:35] Oh, snap cracker pops.
Speaker 2:
[47:37] I thought of that, did you?
Speaker 1:
[47:39] Right. And Oscar, the importance of helping our children to navigate through these things. I was in Australia and we...
Speaker 2:
[47:54] The 28 days.
Speaker 1:
[47:56] I know each time I remind myself. And our brother Lalo Gunther brought his daughter with him on the trip.
Speaker 3:
[48:03] Yeah, sweet brother.
Speaker 1:
[48:04] Yeah, great brother. He brought his daughter with him. And it was such a joy to watch her soaking in the truth that she was hearing at these conferences. I mean, she's sitting in, like we did four of them and it was the same messages, but she kept sitting there, you know.
Speaker 4:
[48:20] The poor girl had to hear you four times.
Speaker 1:
[48:21] Four times, I know, my corny jokes. And I thought, I thought, man, how cool is that? Like, and then we went out, we did evangelism, we did open air, you know. I had a couple hundred people swarming us and there was another young lady that had come to on the trip with her mom and she was eager to go and engage these other young people that were there. They were her age, you know, like teenage kind of sort of level. But Oscar, immersing our children in truth, because like they're the next generation. We're impressionable, this world's influential, but laying that foundation. What are ideas? Like how can parents help their kids both with content, but also to build that courage in them?
Speaker 4:
[49:09] Yeah, that's good. I actually, that's a question I'd want to ask you guys, because your kids are a lot further along than mine. But I will say in this season for us, I think it's two part. It's helping our kids learn to think critically, not shielding them from the lies, but to help them identify the lies. I think I've-
Speaker 3:
[49:30] Spot the lie.
Speaker 4:
[49:30] Spot the lie, yeah, it's a game that we play. I'm sure you've heard me talk about it on the podcast before. And then even in my prayers, when it's my day to drop my kids off to school, they hear me pray over them, and every morning it's an iteration of the same prayer. Part of that prayer is help my kids know truth from lies, whether it comes from books, teachers, friends, or their own hearts. That's something that we pray over them consistently. Their own hearts, wow. Yeah, and then the other part too though, it's not enough to know God, because even the demons knew who Jesus was. We need to cause an affection in our children for God. It's not enough for me to tell them what's true and what's not true. My ultimate aim is to grow their love for God through their understanding of their Savior, which means my primary job is to always be pointing them back to the gospel, especially when they fail. And something I've been thinking about a lot lately, like as our kids fail, am I just looking for moral improvement? Am I thinking about application of punishment, outcome, or am I thinking is this an opportunity to remind them of the gospel? Wow.
Speaker 2:
[50:45] As you were saying before, what's the answer to this whole my truth? It's the gospel.
Speaker 4:
[50:50] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[50:51] It's the gospel. It's the power of God's salvation. And my whole thought is, when we're reasoning with ungodly people, we really want to say to them, what I'm telling you is the gospel is not bad news. If God is real, that's not bad news. If the Bible is real, that's not bad news, because it can give you hope in your death. So am I your enemy because I'm telling you the truth? I'm telling you the best news you could ever hope to hear, because that's the lie that's within this generation, that the Bible and Christianity and all that's just bad news, keep it away from me, and it's the exact opposite.
Speaker 1:
[51:23] Yeah, and here's the thing, when we used to go to the courthouse, if you guys remember back in the day, and preach the gospel across from Living Waters, I remember one day it distinctly hit me, because we were talking about permission, and there were rumblings of are we going to get stopped, and you remember that the judge did issue this arbitrary injunction to shut us down, but before that happened, we would go, and it just like hit me, I was like, It was for two years. Oh, it was wonderful, and I started to say it was wonderful, and then we got shut down. Can you believe it? Superstitious, Ray Comfort.
Speaker 2:
[51:54] Yeah, well, you said, I can't believe we get to do this, and I said, don't say that. We just got shut down.
Speaker 3:
[51:59] See that building over there?
Speaker 4:
[52:01] You're superstitious.
Speaker 2:
[52:02] Let that go.
Speaker 4:
[52:03] Yeah, I'm not superstitious. I'm a little stitious.
Speaker 1:
[52:06] Ooh, teeny stitious. So anyway, but I remember one day, it just hit me distinctly. I have permission from the king of the universe who owns this stinking planet. Like I don't go into all the world, his world and preach the gospel. I say that to say this, not to be reckless. I'm gonna go, I don't care and not, you know, and avoid being wise and trying to see how we can maximize our effectiveness. I'm talking about the boldness, not the boldness, the confidence with which we preach the gospel, with which we speak truth. Because I think there's something about, you've noticed it, like you're training someone to share the gospel and they're going up and hi, like if I can talk to you, you know. You're talking about me? Yeah, exactly. And immediately the person's like, you know, they're just, they disrespect them on the spot and they're not gonna listen. But when you come up and you have that, hey man, let me tell you something, like unapologetic, right? While using apologetics, unapologetic, in that this is the truth. And I think that it's because we lack immersion in the ramifications of the truth. So we know the truths intellectually, but we're not diving deep into them ourselves. God is sovereign. God loves me. I'm going to heaven. Dive, man. Dive. Like, extrapolate that. Don't be a man who's dying of an asthmatic attack while you're sitting right next to an inhaler. Don't do that. Because, I mean, that's what we do. Like, we have the truth around us and then we're going out and we're acting like we don't believe that truth. And so it's immersion. This morning, as I was leaving for the office, and I was worrying about different things that are coming up, things I have to do, my prayer was Lord, like, you know, I have a consistent daily prayer life. But what I've noticed and what I want to see change is that that prayer life that is without ceasing, that posture of like, I'm constantly, I have, there's the Lord, he's right there. He's in my car with me and I'm sitting there talking to myself about my problems. It's like sitting next to someone who has a box full of cash, hundreds of thousands of dollars, who's told you anytime you need it, I'm right here and you're sitting there, oh, what am I gonna do man? I gotta get lunch. I don't have money today. He's still right next to you, man. So that's all. I'm just, and again, our forgetfulness, like man, tie a string around your finger, whatever you need to do to remember these truths and these realities so that we're immersed in God, we're immersed in truth so that when the world sees us, they're not like, that guy doesn't even believe what he's saying, man. He's out here doing this because that's just what he's got to do or it's his religion or no, like let it ooze from you. Where people are like, who was it? They said, I don't believe what he believes, but he does.
Speaker 2:
[55:07] Yeah, that was what says that it was about, was it about what? What would feel from Hume was Hume about what field I think David Hume.
Speaker 1:
[55:14] Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:
[55:14] Speaking of enlightenment, did you believe what he says? No, but I believe he does.
Speaker 1:
[55:18] That's what I'm talking. It's good. You know? Yeah. So I think, man, I think that's the way we counter.
Speaker 2:
[55:26] And, you know, one thing I've found kind of exciting and love doing it when I ask someone, do you think there's life after death? They say, I don't know. And they say to me, what do you think? And I say, absolutely. Yeah. It's good.
Speaker 1:
[55:38] Yeah. Well, that's why, you know, when Christians speak and like, well, you know, well, well, what do you think? Maybe. And I think I and we and we and we say, I've heard believers talk that way. Well, I feel that. Or, you know, or I'll hear I'll hear debates sometimes, or I'll hear a Christian being interviewed or something. And they'll say, you know what? I tend to think that versus like, no, this is the truth. What do you tend to think that? Or my perspective is, no, this is, this is what God says. This is truth.
Speaker 3:
[56:10] And here's a good verse to meditate upon, John 1837. For this purpose I was born, and for this purpose I've come into the world to bear witness to the truth. Right? Truth doesn't originate from our emotions. It originates from God. And the more we know God and the more we know the Word, then we're okay with the outcomes and things that happen. I mean, just consider the fact. How many times do we worry? Get anxious.
Speaker 2:
[56:34] Yeah, that worries me when I do that.
Speaker 3:
[56:36] But then we've read the final chapter, and we see that God wins, or we see his promises that are just exceedingly abundantly above anything we could ever hope or think. We see things like, do not worry about your life, and then we worry. What's going to happen? I remember MacArthur before he had passed. He had said...
Speaker 2:
[56:54] Wasn't after that.
Speaker 3:
[56:55] Right after he passed, he said...
Speaker 2:
[57:01] You can only say that about Jesus. Jesus said this before he died, and he said this after he died.
Speaker 3:
[57:09] He said that he became comfortable and longed for the miraculous, meaning I don't know how this is going to be taken care of, but I've been in enough Red Sea scenarios to know that God is going to come up. He's going to do what he needs to do. So when we see somebody worried, we just remember, well, God's always taken care of His children. You know, King David, I was once young, now I'm old. I've never seen the righteous forsaken or his descendants begging bread.
Speaker 2:
[57:38] You haven't seen a televangelist when he said that.
Speaker 3:
[57:41] That's right. So I think that if we could just, I mean, what is faith? Faith is taking God at His word. You know, God said it. I believe that that settles it. I think Corey Ten Boom said. So if we can just read God's word, we highlight the promises of God. But if we were to look at it and go, I don't need to worry about my life. He's going to supply my every need. The God who cannot lie has said this. The one who is truth, the one who came to testify of truth, the one who said it's impossible for him to lie has said that he is going to accomplish this. We've read the last chapter. God wins. And what do we do? We are still pacing back and forth with sweat on our brow, wondering and worried, what's going to happen here? We don't need to do that. We have the greatest authority. We must always remember this.
Speaker 1:
[58:32] Well, Mark, to add to that, he is going to, you said, but he has also done it, and he has done it our whole life. It's like, to me, it's that craziness. I have this sort of saying that I will say to myself sometimes, and we all say, but you have just got to laugh. And that's because how many times have we been at a certain juncture? And how many times has it worked out? As an example, like, oh, you know, need. How many times have you been in need, and God has provided your need? When I was speaking at a church recently and I was talking about these sorts of things, I said, how many of you have ever had a moment where you had a certain financial need, and you received money that was that exact amount? And like hands everywhere went up. How many times have you been dealing with a specific situation, and multiple times someone brought up that situation or that verse, you turn on your radio and there's a sermon related to it, hands everywhere. I'm like, duh, right? And yet we're surprised when it happens. I mean, do we really believe that God is who he is? And then each time, right? Like you find yourself in the similar scenario you've been through before and it worked out, and you're in it again and you're about to do what you did before when you aired. And it's like, you got to stop and laugh and say, no, no, no, this time I'm doing it right? Because it's always worked out, God always works it out.
Speaker 3:
[59:56] What do you say to me when I travel?
Speaker 1:
[59:57] It's going to work out. It always has. It always will.
Speaker 3:
[60:01] That's right.
Speaker 1:
[60:01] That puts me at ease when I remember that. Like, yeah, duh, how many times have I spoken? Even if it didn't go exactly the way I want it to, I survived. It's fine. I'm not a heretic. No one stoned me. It's going to work out.
Speaker 3:
[60:12] Yes.
Speaker 1:
[60:14] Right?
Speaker 2:
[60:14] I'd like to close with this thought.
Speaker 3:
[60:16] That's silly. I don't know what you're thinking.
Speaker 2:
[60:20] When I came to Christ, it was as real and as radical as being struck by lightning. Wow. Absolute transformation. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. All things pass away, all things become new. And that's the basis of our boldness. When you have a testimony that's that powerful, then you can speak with boldness.
Speaker 1:
[60:43] And yet, remember what Peter said, right? He who lacks these things is short-sighted, even the blindness, and has forgotten his purification from his old sins. He's saying he who lacks these virtues has forgotten his redemption, his testimony when he got saved. And that's why he's lost sight. We got it. Man, we got... One thing I try to do regularly is meditate daily on the day I got saved.
Speaker 2:
[61:07] Yeah.
Speaker 1:
[61:08] Because, yeah, that was like...
Speaker 2:
[61:09] I remember the feeling when I got saved and thinking that night, I'm going to go to sleep now. It was 3 o'clock in the morning. This can't be gone in the morning. It can't be gone. And it's still there 55 years later. Wow. That's right, eternity. It's my feelings. Feelings.
Speaker 1:
[61:25] All right, friends, there you have it. Don't forget, my comfort is Jesus 365 days devotions for morning and evening. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share, wherever you listen and podcast at livingwaters.com. We want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear your questions. And please insult Ray, Mark, Oscar, and Robert Douglas, the 45th. Thank you for joining us, friends. We'll see you here next time on The Living Waters.
Speaker 3:
[61:49] Oh, boy. Podcast.
Speaker 1:
[61:51] A little extra for you today, Mark, because we're talking about feelings.
Speaker 2:
[61:54] It's just thinking of some weird bird with its foot caught in a smear.
Speaker 3:
[61:58] See you, friends.