transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:00] Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. Today, we are joined by a television icon that I have literally loved for my entire life. Don't worry, I'm gonna play it cool. Everything's gonna be fine. Our guest today is none other than the iconic Jennie Garth. For decades, she was frozen in time in all of our minds as Kelly Taylor, the confident, complicated icon at the center of the 90s coming of age series, Beverly Hills 90210. Behind the camera, Jennie really struggled to navigate sudden fame and complicated love and devastating loss and has really reflected on years of quietly losing herself in roles she played on screen and how that continued off screen. I really know a thing or two about that. Today we're gonna talk about how you start to find yourself again, especially when you're 10 years behind because you've been in high school for longer than any other adult on earth. I am thrilled that we are now sisters in the IHeartPodcast family. You can listen to her rewatch pod 90210MG that she does with Tori Spelling or her incredibly empowering podcast that I know Work in Progress listeners will love called I Choose Me Podcast. It's also the name of her revealing new memoir where she revisits the moments that she once avoided and she does it with striking honesty and a willingness to self-reflect and inspect in order to grow. And that's everything from heartbreak and hospitalization to identity and reinvention. And this Saturday, she will be sharing the lessons she has learned over the decades with fans at the IRL I Choose Me Summit. But today, she's here to take us inside the stories, her memories and the wild ride of her life. Let's dive in with Jennie. I have to say, this is so cool. I can't wait to send my parents this episode because if you remember back in the day going to Bush Studio on Highland in LA to do press photos with Charles Bush, that's my dad. And the coolest thing that ever happened to me.

Speaker 2:
[02:51] Charles Bush, I remember.

Speaker 1:
[02:53] Yes, like in elementary school, I had a little flip book, like photo book, and I had Polaroids from all you guys. He would take Polaroids from your shoots and you would sign Polaroids for me. So I still have them, like in a bin in my garage.

Speaker 2:
[03:09] Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:
[03:11] This is my 30 years in the making. Thank you for my Polaroids.

Speaker 2:
[03:15] Your Polaroid collection.

Speaker 1:
[03:16] Yeah. So cool. I'm actually really curious for you because I think anyone with a public life, but certainly when you grow up as a teenager on TV, people just, I don't know, they think they know you so much more intimately maybe than people they meet on screen in adulthood. And I'm curious about your actual childhood. Like rewind 10 years before 90210, before Beverly Hills High. What was your childhood like? You know, I know you grew up in Illinois. I know you grew up on a farm. Can you paint sort of a picture of Jennie pre fame?

Speaker 2:
[04:00] Well, it would have to start with a pink dirt bike, Huffy dirt bike.

Speaker 1:
[04:03] Shut up.

Speaker 2:
[04:04] Yeah. I, I wrote that thing everywhere. Well, we had, we lived on a farm, like in the middle of corn fields. And there were no stores, no restaurant, nothing around us, but corn. And my parents were both teachers, so they would drive in to the town and teach people. And then they'd come home and we would have this like idyllic farm life out there. Just me and my half siblings and my mom and dad, and just it was full of like animals. And I, we, we lived on a cemetery, like our land had a cemetery, like that the cemetery was kind of in the middle of it. It had this beautiful little picket fence around it. And I used to go in there and like just talk to the dead people and just like sit with them. And I just remember that so fondly. It's just like the most grounded feeling in the world of being like sitting there with all these gorgeous historic gravestones. And I was just thinking about that today because I'm in Pennsylvania. And I, there's cemeteries everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[05:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[05:09] Just, I don't know if it gives me a sense of peace. I don't know why that is.

Speaker 1:
[05:13] Wow.

Speaker 2:
[05:14] But we had a good time.

Speaker 1:
[05:15] That's so interesting. I was thinking about that recently. I spent a weekend in upstate New York and we were driving down this beautiful two lane highway. And I was noticing in so many of the farms. Yeah. You know, there's these grazing pastures and then a little fence.

Speaker 2:
[05:32] That's what we had.

Speaker 1:
[05:33] The edge. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[05:34] So that whole like family and all their lineage would all be in that burial ground.

Speaker 1:
[05:39] And what a crazy thing to think before cell phones and YouTube and cartoons. Like that you could just be a kid with an imagination, wondering who lived there before you.

Speaker 2:
[05:53] Yeah. Wondering what the life of was like that the person I was sitting next to, you know, on the ground and just bringing them flowers. And I just always had like a dog or a horse trailing me. And it's just the most like incredible free childhood. I really am so lucky.

Speaker 1:
[06:13] I love that. So how do you go from girl on a farm with, you know, your animals and your dearly deceased neighbors to being spotted for acting? Like what happened?

Speaker 2:
[06:28] Gosh, well, my dad, his health was not great. He was suffering from heart disease. So he had a heart attack and the doctors recommended that he moved to a drier climate. So we moved from there to Arizona. And I was a teenager at this point. So I was teaching dance class at the little dance shop on the corner in our neighborhood, teaching like little girls how to tap dance. And somebody asked me to be in a pageant, like a scholarship pageant. And I thought, okay, yeah, if I can get a scholarship, that'd be amazing. Because we didn't have a lot of money. And the weirdest thing happened there, my still to this day manager, Randy James, he discovered me there. He was there to be a guest judge as a favor to a friend of his. And his wife was with him and she said, you need to talk to that girl. I think I see something in her. So they approached me, gave me his card. It was a little weird, and I was like, you guys are creepy. But it ended up being like I went back home, started taking acting class, and would send him my videotapes of my progress in my acting class.

Speaker 1:
[07:40] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:41] One day he was like, I think you're ready. Just let me know when you come over. My mom and I packed up and we drove to California.

Speaker 1:
[07:50] Wow. So what was it like landing there? I mean, I think back to we still had pilot season. There was sort of a rhythm to the industry at that time. Did you move out for pilot season?

Speaker 2:
[08:08] I think yeah. I think that's what it was. And I went up, I did go for a couple of other pilots. And then it came down to two of them that I had to give an answer on one. And one of them was Kenny Ortega's, a pilot he did. And it was kind of like high school musical before high school musical.

Speaker 1:
[08:24] Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:
[08:25] And then or I had the opportunity to go in for an audition for the Aaron Spelling Show. And I was like, I really would love the opportunity to read for an Aaron Spelling Show, because I just loved, you know, the love boat and all of his stuff. So they didn't want to see me. But my manager was friends from his ABC Casting Days with the Casting Director for Aaron. And he got me in that room somehow. And somehow I got the role right there.

Speaker 1:
[08:55] Oh, my God. Okay. So.

Speaker 2:
[08:59] It just happened. Like I never and I never wanted to be an actress. I was never like yearning to be in the theater or anything. Like I never dreamt of being famous. Nobody in my family is famous ever. And so this was just like, why not? Let's try it. See what happens. And you never know.

Speaker 1:
[09:15] I totally get it. It's crazy. It's like people ask me about it. And I say, no, I thought I was going to be a surgeon. Like life just took a left turn and I'm still going left. I don't know. Here we are.

Speaker 2:
[09:26] Yeah. Then you can't really take back that right once you've gotten to where. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[09:32] Yeah. What was it like when you first stepped onto the set? I mean, do you remember your first day going to work? Was it cool? Overwhelming? Did you feel like you had no idea what was going on? Maybe a jumble of all those things?

Speaker 2:
[09:47] For sure. I mean, the first time I met the rest of the cast was at Aaron's house in his living room.

Speaker 1:
[09:53] That big, crazy house in Beverly Hills?

Speaker 2:
[09:55] Yeah. It was like, no, it was before that. It was a house before that. I think it was like a sunken living room, really big room and trays and bowls full of cigarettes for anybody who wanted it. I was like, oh my God, you can smoke in here. We all sat down and read through the script together, and that's where we timidly met each other. Then we went to shoot the pilot. We were in our little honey wagons together, side by side, and it was just the most, just like a very authentic beginning to something that would end up being so big.

Speaker 1:
[10:35] Yeah. I mean, you couldn't have known.

Speaker 2:
[10:38] No. I had no idea what I was even doing.

Speaker 1:
[10:44] Did you have to figure out, oh, there's this space between rolling in action and what's a mark, and how do I find my light? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[10:53] Well, I had done my first job was, my first job was on growing pains. That was the first job I ever had.

Speaker 1:
[11:01] Oh, of course.

Speaker 2:
[11:03] And I was in this, I had one scene and I had one line that it consisted of three words, and they were all the same word. It was sticky, sticky, sticky. That was what I said. I don't even know why I would say that. But that was my first job. And then I went from there to star as Barbara Eden's daughter in a show we did for NBC, and it only lasted six episodes, I think. But that is where I learned the business, just by watching her and observing her like a stalker. I was just like a sponge wanting to like absorb all of her mannerisms or professionalism. I just really learned, like she, I always attribute her to like teaching me how to be a pro.

Speaker 1:
[11:45] I mean, what a master class to go to work with someone like her.

Speaker 2:
[11:49] Yeah. And everybody loved her and she just, the way she treated everyone, it just made me feel like, oh, I can do this. Like I see myself in her.

Speaker 1:
[11:58] Yeah. That's so special.

Speaker 2:
[12:01] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[12:01] I think having that kind of behind the scenes experience must have been so grounding for you, especially when, you know, mostly you do a high school show, everybody's young, you're figuring it out. You don't often have people to look up to. So what a cool thing that you had that under your belt when you got started.

Speaker 2:
[12:22] I was lucky because she taught me what a mark was. She taught me how to behave on set and be respectful and be perfectional on time and I would not be where I am today without Barbara.

Speaker 1:
[12:35] Yeah. It's interesting when I was reflecting on this recently, someone was asking me, you know, when did you become such a ride or die for the crew? You know, why has that always been your thing? I was trying to figure it out and it sort of dawned on me, oh, I worked in my dad's studio every summer. And as I got older, you know, sometimes after school too, and I was, you know, I was basically a PA. I worked crew.

Speaker 2:
[13:05] You were on the ground level there.

Speaker 1:
[13:07] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[13:08] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[13:09] And I don't think I realized what a valuable lesson it was to be kind of a fly on the wall in that way. And to your point, to watch the Barbara Edens, who were classy and iconic and wonderful, and to see people who weren't and go, Oh, I don't want to be that. Got it. Got it. Got it.

Speaker 2:
[13:31] Got it. And I just have like, you know, my family was always by my side. And I have just like a pretty strong moral compass. You know, I was raised in the Midwest. And so it was very eye-opening, everything that I was seeing and being exposed to. And I was just kind of trying to figure my way out. You know, I didn't know how to manage all that.

Speaker 1:
[13:56] Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[13:57] But always so grateful for all the people that worked there and, you know, put so much time and effort into everything. I was always better friends probably with the crew than, you know, hanging out with the cast.

Speaker 1:
[14:13] I get that. It's also really cool. I don't know, getting ready for today, I went back and read through like a bunch of interviews and things. And it's an insane thing to have lived through a version of what we have. And yours was in a whole other stratosphere to ours, and ours was overwhelming to me, so I can't even imagine for you. But you reflect so sweetly on everyone. You know, you talk about how the cast was a makeshift family, and like I've watched your eyes light up now. What a creepy thing to say, but I don't mean it in a creepy way. Like when you talk about how Luke Perry was your first love. And I don't know, do you think that maybe with time, you just really get to hold on to all the good and all the nostalgia and love it?

Speaker 2:
[15:02] Yeah, I think it's that case with so many things in life, like even my mom losing my dad and only remembering the good parts, you know, and just carrying that forward. And yeah, there was a lot of weird things, a lot of very hard to handle situations and a lot of, you know, personality clashing and just I didn't know any way to deal with that other than the way I was raised. And I spent, I did kind of like, kind of keep to myself a lot more than, you know, probably other people. But that's just what I needed to get through it because it was just unchartered territory.

Speaker 1:
[15:44] Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. You know, you said something earlier before we had taken our dive into the episode, but that now you can reflect on dynamics, especially among the women in different ways. And I think a lot about that. I mean, I don't know the behind the scenes of your show, but I certainly know on ours. Like, our bosses did not want the girls to be friends. They did a lot of work to make us distrustful of each other. It took us a lot of years and a lot of work to iron through that, to go from being more than like acquaintances who liked hanging out sometimes at work, but were scared to being real friends. And the industry, frankly, was so terrible to women.

Speaker 2:
[16:44] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[16:45] You know, what was that like for you girls? Was there any help for you navigating your relationships, or were you also so nervous to rock the boat of the show that you never really wanted to dive too deep into those things?

Speaker 2:
[17:00] Well, it was hard because there was nobody there to guide us. There was nobody there to like bring things down a notch. You know, everybody loves when things got elevated. Things went when there was conflict, everybody was more interested in the story. You know, and so yeah, they would definitely rather us not get along than get along. And you know, the writing pitted us against one another, specifically myself and Shannon Brenda, the character of Brenda, Kelly and Brenda were always, you know, it was bad.

Speaker 1:
[17:29] I mean, and iconic fights on screen, but I know how hard that can be off screen.

Speaker 2:
[17:34] We were probably having a good time when we were fighting on screen. But it was really confusing for us as young women, and both of, she and I are both Aries, very strong, independent ladies. And, you know, when we weren't trying to clash our horns together, we were actually loving being around each other. And like, we got each other on a different level. So I, you know, it doesn't matter whatever happened then. I know that, like, you just kind of think, wow, I was so young. I didn't know how to navigate that. And neither did that person. So there's a lot of like forgiveness in that for me, not just for them, but for myself too, because I know there were times when I could have showed up a better version of myself. I just didn't know that version yet.

Speaker 1:
[18:25] Yeah. Oh, that's such a crazy part of it though. I think having such a public life when you're young, in a weird way, people love when you mess up, but then they also judge you for messing up, and you're sitting there going, I don't have any of this figured out yet. No one my age does. And I'm trying to figure it out with a million eyeballs on me. It's confusing. Like, how do you feel like you started to make sense of that? Because, you know, you write about it so beautifully in your book, you know, chapter four, oh my god, sobbed through the whole thing in a good way. I was just like, oh, I feel this in my bones. Oh, good. But I think it's so special when you can look back and really unpack things. And when you choose to be so generous with your audience and tell your story so maybe other people can see themselves. But like, when did that journey start? Was it becoming a mom because you did that young? Or was it like a moment into motherhood where you were like, hang on, I got to go back and pull these threads apart so I can do something else?

Speaker 2:
[19:34] I think I survived it by not partying. I would go be with my parents. We had a, I had bought them a place up north in Santa Barbara. And so we kind of recreated our farm life up there. And I got horses and trucks and all that. That was like how I spent my money. And I would go up there every weekend. And then I had a baby. Wow. And when I was 23 or 4, I was pregnant. I was not married. But I was like, I know I'm supposed to have this baby. So I'm absolutely going to have this baby. And that was the best thing I ever did. That was the best decision of my life. Because it took off like the, it took off like my attention that I would be normally be placing on myself. And you know, we get, as actors, I think we are, people often associate us with being like self-centered or self-focused. And it's hard not to be because we are our business. Like, so of course, we're going to focus on like getting the next job or being the best that we can or whatever. But at that time, I was so lucky to have something else to focus my energy on. And always like running right back to my trailer to be with her and getting her home, you know, it's just I'm she saved my life probably, like honestly, having having Luca.

Speaker 1:
[21:00] Wow, that's really cool.

Speaker 2:
[21:02] And it wasn't until later, like because then I got wound up in being a mom and then I had another baby and then I had another baby. And so I spent all of my 20s and 30s having children or raising them, figuring out how to raise them. Yeah, and that was all consuming. But then it was when I was in my 40s, I got a divorce. I was forced to sort of take a look at myself outside of my girls, outside of being this perfect family. And that all kind of got stripped away. And while it was really incredibly painful, I guess it really got me to where I am now, like the lessons that I learned, and the feeling of I can handle this without that, because I'm my own person. Yeah. It's been a long journey though.

Speaker 1:
[22:01] Yeah. Well, it's interesting because what I hear you talking about is the immense pressure of having a role so young. And then you had two roles. And then that motherhood role is the one that took over. And yes, of course, your career is going. But I hear you on the actors have to focus on themselves. But actually, I think when you start really working as an actor, you are put in the role of breadwinner. And you're expected to be every other role when you're the woman in that role. You know? And so you're spinning so many plates, it can be so hard to have a moment for yourself. And everyone assumes you're self-obsessed. You're like, I better never say anything about my needs, because they'll think it's true.

Speaker 2:
[22:49] Or complain.

Speaker 1:
[22:50] Oh, never.

Speaker 2:
[22:51] You can't complain because then people have a different perception of you. That's not a good one. And you want people to like you. You want it was kind of like that pick me culture. I was thinking about this morning, like you wanted to be picked, you wanted to be cast, you wanted to be selected over the others, you know, just because that's what we thought, I thought my what I was supposed to do. And I never really thought anything through. I never like planned for things. My life just kept happening and happening and happening and happening. So I was just, I felt like I was always like, just trying to keep my head above water, honestly.

Speaker 1:
[23:27] Oh, I know that feeling.

Speaker 2:
[23:28] Yeah, just being like, being famous at such a young age. I mean, it did some some crazy things to my mind, I think. And I'm just like at this stage in my life, it's been so just freeing to be able to go back and kind of dissect all of that and find the places where I was showing up in alignment with who I really am. And then also find the places where I didn't show up like that and places where I needed to stop pointing the finger and start pulling the thumb, you know?

Speaker 1:
[24:02] Uh-huh. Oh, I love that. That's such a good phrase. Do you think the things you write about in that fourth chapter, doing that reflection, pointing it back at yourself, asking for help, was that really? I know you, you know, you write about it in a sense, like it's a breaking point, but it also sounds like it's a breakthrough point.

Speaker 2:
[24:29] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[24:29] And do you feel like in a way you healed in that moment, but also like everything that came before it?

Speaker 2:
[24:35] I feel like I was not healed from everything before it at that time. You know, when they always say what doesn't break us, makes us, or is that what they say?

Speaker 1:
[24:45] Well, they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I'm like, sometimes what doesn't kill you was just really hard. Okay. Like stop trying to make it seem like it was good for me.

Speaker 2:
[24:55] And you, you know, you have to always look like you've got your shit together. And like, you know, and I spent a lot of time just basically hiding, hiding behind my girls, behind my marriage and not worrying, not being self-reflective.

Speaker 1:
[25:14] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[25:14] And I enjoyed that time, honestly, because it was oblivion. But then once the girls got older and they, you know, like started having their own lives and being so independent, that was my time in my early 40s to start really kind of being introspective and looking, looking at all the things a little bit more deeply.

Speaker 1:
[25:39] That's really cool.

Speaker 2:
[25:40] But definitely like when you say going like, when something feels like it's breaking us, it's really just opening us up for some incredible learning and growth and like opening the door to whatever's next. So I've really come to appreciate when something doesn't work out. I'm always like, so I wonder what is going to work out? Like what is this? No. How is this going to turn into a yes for something else?

Speaker 1:
[26:05] Yes. Well, it's interesting. I bit my tongue when you were talking about that moment and you said, I went through this and I went through that and I got a divorce. And I was about to be like, congratulations. Because in an interesting way, like having been through it, having been on that hamster wheel, trying to keep my head above water, I did all the things I thought I was supposed to do. And at 40, I was like, wait, that this can't be it, right? Like, what do you mean? What do you mean there's no wizard? Like what's behind the door? And I think what it really taught me was the bravery that is required to make that choice in a world that tells you you shouldn't, especially if you're 40 or beyond. And now when I'm with women, if people are like, I'm getting married, I'm like, congratulations. And if they're like, I'm getting a divorce, I'm like, congratulations.

Speaker 2:
[27:01] I know because it's just, it's opening you up for whatever is next. And that's the best thing. Like the phases of our lives, like they really do, but they are just so significant, you know, and it's just about growing and then looking for that next moment that's going to lead you to the next moment. And I always kind of like, I said things always happened, you know, in my life, and I never really planned anything out. And I, I survived that way for a really long time. And I thought, oh, this is how life is supposed to be. It's supposed to be flying up the seat of my pants and like trying to, you know, keep up. But when I was able to slow down a little and like give myself some foot and kind of assess where I had come from, where I had been, what parts of my life felt good, what parts of my life didn't feel good. And then that sort of like kind of percolates. And you know, you learn so much about yourself when you give yourself that opportunity to sit with things. And like when you write a book, you got to go back and really think about like how you handled certain situations. And then I think in doing that, that, you know, you kind of create this roadmap of how you've survived and you look at it and you think, well, I don't have a roadmap for what's next. So I get to make it up as I get to decide, I get to choose what I want. And then go drive towards that, you know?

Speaker 1:
[28:35] Yeah, you get to design it, you get to claim it.

Speaker 2:
[28:38] For the first time, that's what it felt like. I had never had that chance to make any of my own choices.

Speaker 1:
[28:45] Yeah. I'm curious how you think about, and I don't mean in the like, I want to roll my eyes, you know, women's magazine, clickbait, whatever version, but like true self-care, you know, because you, you write about treatment, you write about introspection, you've talked about even ways that you've shifted, you know, your diet. I think about how we relate to ourselves, how we evolve to make those choices, to travel those new roads, to be kind to our bodies, you know. What does that feel like for you? Does it feel like a practice? Does it feel like a relationship with yourself?

Speaker 2:
[29:36] It does actually. It feels like, it's corny, but it feels like me choosing me, you know? And not being, not carrying around shame that I used to carry, or feel self-centered in choosing myself, like I would have before. Now, I have this new, like, love affair with myself, whether it's my inner child, the little Jennie that's, you know, still in there needing to have her handheld sometimes and just kind of be held. Or it's like my appreciation for what I've been through. And I think, wow, look, look at what you've done. Look at what you've survived. Look. And yeah, look at the places where you didn't show up as your best self. And I just have like a new found love for that person that's endured all that. And also just a respect for her. And I want, I want to take care of her moving forward because I don't know, you know, I write about it in the book, but like that Taylor Swift song gets me every time when she says, you're on your own kid, you always have been and even know what song it's from. But that made me think like, you know what? I am on my own. We are all on our own. We're born alone. We do die alone. And yes, we have, we form these relationships and these, you know, bubbles of comfort with people that we love. But I'm all I've got, you know? At the end of the day, I'm the only one that can make myself feel better.

Speaker 1:
[31:14] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[31:15] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:16] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[31:16] Yeah, there's something so yummy and like powerful about that.

Speaker 1:
[31:20] Yeah. Well, and I love that you chose the title, I Choose Me, because it's so honest and everything that I think women deserve to feel. And as a girl who's come to really go back and love the person she played in her first TV show, I love that it's a phrase from a 90210 storyline, like it just feels so full circle. It is.

Speaker 2:
[31:46] It's crazy. Like I did not see this coming. I couldn't have written this script, you know? And I never ever thought this is where I would find myself, but I found it just by being self-aware. I stopped being self-indulgent and I started just being open to what came towards me and also the choices that I made. You know, I started becoming more intentional along that journey instead of just sort of being led around.

Speaker 1:
[32:19] I love that. And now a word from our sponsors. When did it feel like it stopped being a line and started being a decision? And for our friends at home, you might need to be reminded that this, it's such an iconic moment, Brandon and Dylan gave you an ultimatum about who, which one of them you want to be with. And that absolutely influenced me as a kid watching the show, you saying, I choose me.

Speaker 2:
[32:57] I think that's so cool that I got to say it, first of all.

Speaker 1:
[33:00] And that you got to say it then.

Speaker 2:
[33:02] Between the two like, hunkiest guys on TV.

Speaker 1:
[33:06] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[33:07] But and it was so significant and I know that a lot I've heard this and this is probably what, I know this is what inspired me to go back to this line is when I heard people, I would meet fans of the show that I've grown up with basically and they would say to me, that's the moment when my life changed when I heard Kelly tell me that it was okay for me to choose myself. And I started just being really proud of that and like being the conduit for that message for them. And I thought people still need to hear that. And so I needed to bring it back to life. And at the same time I was doing that, I was really searching for like, what is my purpose here? I've been an actress, I'm famous, whatever. I've done all those things. I've been a mom, the best mom I could be. I try to be in relationship, healthy relationships. It hasn't gone well, but I'm open to doing it again. And I was like, what do I want, you know? Like what's my, you know, that purpose driven life, that book, someone gave it to me and I couldn't even read it because I was so intimidated by other people knowing their purpose and I couldn't figure out mine. And so I just was like, maybe I don't have one. Maybe this is my purpose, but being a mom, amazing. I'm good. I'm good with that. I feel like I have done a really good job fulfilling my purpose. But I kind of felt like there's more. I have more to give. I know that I'm meant to make people feel better to teach them things about themselves. And I can only do that by sharing my journey with them and sharing with them the things that I've learned along the way, because I have really spent a good, I mean, at least 10 years really, really digging in and doing like the important work to just kind of like figure out who I am.

Speaker 1:
[35:08] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:09] And who I want to be.

Speaker 1:
[35:10] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[35:11] And that's been, that's the most, this is the most fulfilling work I've ever done, is by encouraging others to do the same thing, however it works for them, but just to like love themselves enough to take care of themselves in a completely new way.

Speaker 1:
[35:31] The big aha for me, you know, similarly to you being like, oh, maybe being a mom is my purpose. There's so much giving that comes with that, and the big aha moment when I went, uh-oh, I don't think this is actually what's meant for me, this life I've built. One of my best friends looked at me and said, your mission on earth is to stand up for other people, to love other people through emotion and through justice. You are an advocate through and through. When are you going to start advocating for yourself the way you advocate for strangers? And it knocked the wind out of me because I was like, oh, I will study, I will study up on how policy has affected water access in a community I don't live in. But I won't really give myself the time of day if I'm sad. Huh, huh. I might have to learn how to give a little bit to me. And reading through your book, I was like, oh, right. 2023 was the year I chose me. Wow.

Speaker 2:
[36:49] It's kind of the same year for me too. Like, COVID was COVID and we got some great alone time, but at the same time, we couldn't wrap our minds around what was happening. And then we all, I think we all just collectively came out of that spinning and like, whoa, what do we do? How do we move forward? You know, I think that was a really, and that's why we're seeing so much more discussion about mental health now. And people are telling their stories more than ever because we have that time to really kind of sit with ourselves. And things come when they're silent. You know, that's the best studying you can do, I think, is when you sit silently with your own thoughts and, you know, kind of determine what resonates with you and what doesn't.

Speaker 1:
[37:38] Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And I think you realize how you will fill space. And I mean, my best friend and I laugh about it all the time. We both partnered up, settled down. I had a wedding, she had a baby, and we all came out of lockdown and went, uh-oh. Oh, oh, I think we're, I think we're in that camp of people who trauma bonded and maybe not the correct way. Uh-oh. And it's a crazy thing to realize that no matter what version of it you're in, like being a human is hard. Do you feel like that big collective, uh-oh, or, oh, that's interesting, that it seems like everybody went through. Was that what inspired you to make this an in-person thing, to create a summit so people could gather? I mean, I think it's so cool that it's in-person, but also virtually so people can participate. Like, how did you know you wanted to do this?

Speaker 2:
[38:40] I knew I wanted, it started with a podcast. I knew I wanted to, I was already doing a podcast, which was like a light, fun, rewatch podcast. And I'm not the most up-to-date on pop culture person. I don't pay attention to that stuff. I don't like watching entertainment news. So doing that kind of poppy podcast was not what I wanted to do. And I really wanted to be about deeper conversations and just get more into the real aspects of life. So I started the podcast and that started to feel really good. And I thought, okay, this feels right. Let's move forward with this message on a different way. So I started a clothing brand where I'm able to encourage women through my clothing and through just making people feel beautiful and feel confident and taking the time to choose to take care of themselves as far as picking out what they like, what they want to wear. And then it became a summit. I was like, all these people that I see joining this community, I want to be with them in person and I want to bring them another gift of bringing other people that they would normally not get to hear from or be in person with. They come and they get to hear these great stories from people that maybe they look up to or they respect. So that's how the I Choose Me Summit came about. We did our first one last year and it was such an incredible, just feeling in the room and I thought I would love to do this again. I'd love to take this on the road and do it everywhere for women because we all, we all need a community. Some of us don't know we need it. Some of us think we don't need it, but when you experience it, something shifts. When you experience that mutual, that we're all kind of experiencing the same things in life and struggling with the same things and just encouraging one another and supporting one another. That's what I've thought. This feels so good to me. I want to share that with other people.

Speaker 1:
[40:44] Yeah. I feel that so deeply. Well, it's so cool. It's Saturday.

Speaker 2:
[40:50] Yeah, it's coming so fast. I can't believe it.

Speaker 1:
[40:53] I want to tell our friends who are listening, you can get tickets at veeps.com. It's veeps.com. You can go in person or you can go virtually. What are you doing this weekend? What would you rather be doing this weekend? Clearly nothing. Go to the summit.

Speaker 2:
[41:11] Learn something about yourself.

Speaker 1:
[41:12] Yeah, go be with people. I think it's really cool that for this second year, you're also including men in the conversation. What sparked the shift? Because to be clear, men need community too. I think they're even more hesitant to admit that than we are. So did you just sort of know they needed to be in the room?

Speaker 2:
[41:35] Well, they definitely needed to be in the room and hearing these conversations from women. But at the same time, I've met some really incredibly inspirational men, and one of them is actually going to be at the event this year. His name is Cameron Matheson, and he's the person that introduced me to Buddhism, the teachings of Buddha. And I started taking classes with him, and I just fell in love with the messaging. And so he had such an impact on my life. I was a no-brainer for me. And I also kind of felt like bad, but yeah, women's empowerment. I love women. I want to help women. I want to support women. I want to be surrounded by women. But at the same time, I felt a little bad leaving the guys out, especially the guys like Karama and Cameron, people that have really positive messages to put out there. And maybe we wouldn't normally hear them, you know, or think of them.

Speaker 1:
[42:29] Well, I think about it a lot. You know, there's a lot of men that get very upset when we criticize men as a system, because they feel like we're criticizing them as male people. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. I have great men in my life. I love good men. What I have a problem with is the system of men that harms women.

Speaker 2:
[42:50] Right.

Speaker 1:
[42:51] And one of the things I think is so important about having good men in the room is it also even subconsciously reminds women about what really good masculine energy is and then they know what isn't. I actually think having really great, healthy relationships with excellent men keeps us safer around the ones that are dangerous.

Speaker 2:
[43:18] That sounds very true. I mean, that definitely makes sense because it's not fair to sort of clump everybody together in any sense of the word, in any situation, like everybody's individual. So it's such a disservice to make men the enemy, you know, because they're not all the enemy. There's some good ones out there, ladies.

Speaker 1:
[43:43] Yeah, some fantastic ones, truly. So I can't wait to hear how that goes with some of our friends in the room at the side.

Speaker 2:
[43:50] Thank you. I'm excited.

Speaker 1:
[43:51] It's so exciting. You know, there's so much that you've done and created, and it feels like you're so tapped into your purpose and you know what your lane is, and you're on this adventure. When you think about all these things that you know now more deeply about yourself, I guess I wonder what feels like your work in progress, what feels like you're still tinkering or looking or working on.

Speaker 2:
[44:24] It's so funny, the title of your podcast, it always resonates with me because I think it was like 1993, I don't remember exactly, but I did an exercise video. It was called Body in Progress. And so, I've always said, I'm a body in progress, and I'm so related to the title of your podcast. So, for anybody listening, just to hear me speak or talk about finding my purpose and how I feel like I'm so in the pocket right now, I still wake up and doubt myself. I still have to nurture those parts of me that are insecure or that are really used to those old patterns of ways of detrimental patterns that I so easily slip back into. And it takes a lot of bravery every day, and it takes just a recommitment on the daily, even moment to moment sometimes, of wanting so desperately to live up to my potential to not only make my father proud, lose watching from above, but also my daughters. The most important thing to me is that I walk a life that they are proud to walk in with me. And I think that that is just like my driving force to every day, even when I'm questioning things or feeling imposter syndrome or letting all that stuff in, the negative messaging. It's easier for me to pop out of that now because I want to for my girls. I want to be the woman that I know I can be, not just for myself, but for them. So while I'm choosing me, I'm also choosing we, like I feel like I'm choosing like this community that I'm building around us, not with just like my family, but also with people that listen to the podcast or come to the summit or buy the clothes. I feel so much support and synergy in this group of people.

Speaker 1:
[46:34] Yeah. And I mean, they say that the most important predictive outcome for a woman's happiness is how happy her mom was. And to see you happy and embodied and creative and doing all these things, it sets such an example for your readers and your listeners, but also for your kids. It's really cool.

Speaker 2:
[46:56] Yeah. I love it that I figured things out a little bit more than I did. And it took me a while. Like, I feel like I'm 10 years behind the curve because I spent those good solid 10 years on 90210 in that environment. I feel like I'm 10 years behind just developmentally. And I was always so frustrated by that because I was like, why are you acting like this? You can't get away with that anymore. Someone said to me, stop being self-indulgent once. And I was like, oh my God, you're right. I'm being a self-indulgent asshole. Like, who am I to act like this? If I wouldn't accept this in my life from somebody else, how can I possibly accept it from myself? So there's just a lot of different little wake up calls. But yeah, 10 years behind.

Speaker 1:
[47:47] Yeah, I feel that deeply. Oh my goodness. Well, this is just so cool. Thank you for today.

Speaker 2:
[47:55] Thank you so much for having me.