transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:05] Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Grey NATO, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 372, and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegreynato.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton, and I'm joined as ever by my tired friend and co-host, James Stacey. James, back again from yet another trip. This was the big one.

Speaker 2:
[00:33] Yeah, this is the big one. It was a long, a very long week in Geneva, a lot of long days to get as much online as possible. Just thrilled to be home. It was a very successful week as far as some, you know, announcements of new watches and all the content therein goes. But, you know, this is where we really synthesize the stuff that kind of appeals to me and maybe to you, and hopefully to people who kind of listen to TGN. Obviously, Watch the Wander is not really in the exact same scope. There's some overlap, but it's two very different circles. The sort of stuff that we talk about versus what might end up kind of banner from that sort of affair. But, hey, it is kind of the start of fair season, full stop now, as Vancouver's next weekend, and you and I are already making plans for Chicago, for wind up, and then we'll have Toronto as well. So between now and then, we've got a couple good stops, and there's lots to talk about. But look, it wasn't just new watches. We also have a great update from the Best TGN Episode Tournament, which has been going on and I believe has made it into, is it Final Four we're at now?

Speaker 1:
[01:36] Yeah, we're into the Final Four. You know, big thanks to Jackson for spearheading this. I think it was a really nice thing to offer to our audience since we took the past couple of weeks off for Watches and Wonders and Defender Trophy. And, you know, of course, we're going to talk about all that shortly here, but hopefully this tied up some people over in it. And just, I didn't dip in as often as I would have liked, but there were some big upsets and it's looking like a really interesting, they're down to the Final Four. And we'll throw the voting link in the Show Notes for the Final Four. And Final Four voting is now open and it will be until the 26th of April. And then they move on to the final round, the championship voting, which is open from the 27th through May 4th or around that time. So we're still working out the final date for the final, but the championship voting will open on the 27th of April. But right now, you can go and vote for the Final Four. And that comes down to these four episodes. So in the first semi-final, we've got episode 214, which is called Titanium Travel and Adventure Regional Champ.

Speaker 2:
[02:44] The start of a theme there.

Speaker 1:
[02:44] It's the regional champ of that one. Yeah. Against an old one, episode 35, Your Report from Clipperton, which seems like a lifetime ago from Clipperton with Love. That was in the driving and diving regional champ. And then on the other side of the bracket, we've got semi-final number two, which is episode 252. Well, this was a fun one. The Tudor Pelagos FXD in its natural habitat. That was part of the gear regional bracket. That was the episode around our trip to Florida with the Tudor around the FXD launch. And that's teaming up against episode 276, which was called Jason's Very English Adventure, which was part of the most certainly watches regional bracket. So it's coming down to some interesting episodes.

Speaker 2:
[03:30] Yeah. And I'm curious, you look at this, what's the main, like my main surprise is that none of these are like guest episodes. I would have expected Don Walsh, which I believe just lost in the previous bracket. You know, the lost tapes with Sylvia Earle.

Speaker 1:
[03:47] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:48] Corey Richards maybe was always one that people bring up to me.

Speaker 1:
[03:51] One of the Ballestas or...

Speaker 2:
[03:53] Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:
[03:54] Richie Kohler? How did he not make it?

Speaker 2:
[03:55] Yeah, Richie Kohler, man.

Speaker 1:
[03:56] That's wild. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[03:58] I mean, this almost makes you feel like there's a world in which the future of TGN would be a separate sort of show for those sorts of chats. You'd separate them in some manner. But yeah, that's never really been the plan. We'll have to learn what kind of data we can from all this and maybe not try to infer too much. I am really surprised that Clipperton's that popular of an episode.

Speaker 1:
[04:19] It comes up a lot though. I think people remember that. And it was an early episode. It was kind of one of our formative ones. I think we were both doing a lot more adventuring and I think that was kind of set the tone for a lot of episodes going forward. And I think we're the final four one. And it's interesting that some of the others, especially on the other side of the bracket, went well into the 200s in terms of episodes, so kind of later ones, whereas Clipperton was, I think, 35 or something.

Speaker 2:
[04:44] Yeah, very early, for sure. Well, thanks again to Jackson for organizing all of this. And it's not no small lift. It's a huge amount of work to get this done. And like we said, it kind of held us down for the last couple of weeks, which I desperately needed off to focus on Watches and Wonders. And now we're back. And if you're interested in voting and you want to get in on this round and you're not in the Slack and that sort of thing, it's as little as five bucks a month to join the Slack crew. And you could get in there and get in on the voting if you have an opinion on the semifinals. And it'll be interesting to see what takes number one. I don't know what to infer from these four so far. So we'll need some time to absorb it. But a big thank you to Jackson and to everybody who's taken the time to be part of the voting for the bracket.

Speaker 1:
[05:25] Yeah, we might need to come up with some acknowledgement of the winning episode. Maybe it's like, I don't know, a revisit of that one or something like that.

Speaker 2:
[05:34] Do I go back and remaster it?

Speaker 1:
[05:36] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[05:37] I have all the files.

Speaker 1:
[05:38] Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
[05:41] I'm not sure. We go back and just cut our few favorite moments out of it and make that an episode.

Speaker 1:
[05:46] The director's cut.

Speaker 2:
[05:46] I always avoid like greatest hits episodes because they feel kind of both hugely labor intensive, and yet the end product can feel lazy, if that makes any sense at all. Some of my favorite podcasts, that's what they do when they go on vacation. I'm like, all right, that's fun. But those are podcasts that have full-time producers and people who can pull clips and that sort of thing. It's not something that I've been able to task for, but this is exciting.

Speaker 1:
[06:08] It would be interesting to, if nothing else, when we announce the winner eventually to kind of revisit that topic and with the years that have gone by.

Speaker 2:
[06:19] We could do a...

Speaker 1:
[06:20] Retrospective.

Speaker 2:
[06:21] What do they do on like Blu-rays, director commentary?

Speaker 1:
[06:25] Oh yeah, right, right.

Speaker 2:
[06:26] We could do commentary two years later or whichever episode wins. We could do that and kind of play a little bit of a pause, talk, play a little bit, we can figure that out. I'm not sure that that would be interesting, but we could think about it. Let us know in the Slack if you have an idea for what you would want to hear as like secondary content to this original story in the post. So yeah. But yeah, outside of that, I'll be in Vancouver a little later this week for the Timepiece Show. We have an incredible hangout, which is at capacity but has a waitlist. Please action the waitlist. It'll be up to the folks from Roldorf to decide how they want to open that up. I would prefer that we get to just open a chunk up, so check the show notes for that. And then of course, the Montreal Timepiece Show is coming up as well. And the Toronto Timepiece Show in the broad spectrum of how quickly time moves with the summer isn't actually that far away towards the end of September. So just hit up timepieceshow.com for more. And if you're going to be at the Vancouver Show, looking forward to seeing you there. I'm going to be shooting a photo report for Houdinki, probably doing the sort of in situ conversations that we've done before for a little hostful or a guestful episode for a future TGN. Haven't quite put plans on paper for that. If you have an ask of maybe a group of people you'd love to see in one episode, and let us know, I'm open to giving you guys and gals what you'd like to hear surrounding the show, so let me know. But I'm really excited for that. It's one of those few things where sure, it's work, but kind of like with Chicago, yeah, it's work, but it's also a bit of a vacation.

Speaker 1:
[07:57] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[07:58] You know, I don't get to do a lot of these things that happen on the weekend when things are quiet at Hodinkee, and so this will be pretty fun. And I'm looking forward to obviously seeing a lot of like the Vancouver buddy crew out there as well.

Speaker 1:
[08:08] Yeah, oh, that's great.

Speaker 2:
[08:09] All right, but you're just fresh back from that part of the world.

Speaker 1:
[08:12] Yeah, I just flew home from Vancouver, what was it, late Saturday night, so yeah.

Speaker 2:
[08:16] You sent me a text about the airport, it's a goodie, right? It's one of my favorites.

Speaker 1:
[08:19] Well, it's great, you know, I remember when I arrived last Wednesday, you know, coming through international arrivals there's this long corridor on the second level that passes through this beautiful diorama, sort of an outdoorsy scene with a lot of sort of indigenous art and artifacts and, you know, big canoe, and then they've got, you know, animal sounds, running water and the smell of pine. I mean, it's, you feel like, I mean, you really feel you're in British Columbia and it's just beautiful. And it's a lovely airport anyway, just clean, open.

Speaker 2:
[08:54] Departures has a huge fish tank, like a huge aquarium as well.

Speaker 1:
[08:57] Yeah, yeah. No, it's a great airport. Yeah, it was a good time. The weather, I hope you get the same weather that we had out there.

Speaker 2:
[09:04] Oh, fingers crossed.

Speaker 1:
[09:05] It was tremendous. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[09:07] Yeah, that's great. So Defender Trophy.

Speaker 1:
[09:09] Yeah, we had very different weeks.

Speaker 2:
[09:12] Yeah, we sure did.

Speaker 1:
[09:13] Equally tiring, I think, but yeah, the Defender Trophy. So, you know, as I mentioned, and I've talked about and written about, I was selected as part of the first wave of the 40 Canadians and Americans to compete for the Defender Trophy Finals. This is Land Rover's kind of big adventure, kind of revisiting the old Camel Trophy of the 80s, where there's some off-road skills involved in driving the new Defender, as well as some physical challenges. We did some navigation work and some running and swimming and all sorts of stuff that I'll describe here shortly, but that's kind of the background of it. And it's really a big marketing push around the new Defender. And the North American Finals were held in just outside of Mission, British Columbia, which was about an hour and a half to two hours from Vancouver. And they're doing these regional selection rounds around the world. They've done Japan, they've done Indonesia, I think they've done South Africa. So all of the regions around the world do these kind of elimination rounds, where then they select two from each country basically to then compete in the Finals, which will be in October in Africa. And that's a three week adventure that will be filmed and turned into like a TV series of some sort. And admittedly, going into this, I underestimated this event. I really thought it was going to be kind of watered down a little bit, kind of built for YouTube and social media with lots of, you know, kind of an influencer driven event, kind of a little bit light on the true adventure. But it was, it was not that. It was incredibly well run. Land Rover really did an amazing job hurting cats, so to speak, you know, with all of us there. And they had three overlapping waves of 40 in each wave. So they ended up, you know, cycling through 120 competitors with a whole fleet of Defender Trophy spec defenders, tent camping, off-road driving, skills tests, out in the woods, you know, feeding us and ferrying us around. And they just did an amazing job. And the other competitors, I wasn't sure what to expect. You know, again, I thought, you know, okay, they're probably pulling people that have a big social media following, or, you know, are good looking, or something like that, which would have, I don't know why they would have chosen me in that case, but the truth was, there were some really interesting, competent competitors. There were a couple of guys there whose fathers had competed in the Camel Trophy.

Speaker 2:
[11:54] Oh, really?

Speaker 1:
[11:55] Back in the 90s. Yeah, there was a guy, a Turkish American guy, whose father was part of the Team Turkey in the, I believe it was the 92 or 93 Camel Trophy. And he was there, he's currently, he's a US Marine. There was another guy who actually there were twins, two twins that were both competing. Their father was part of the American team in Camel Trophy. Ken Cameron was his name. And his son, Tiren was actually one of the finalists, one of the selected from our wave to move on to the next round. So pretty cool there. There were a lot of ex-military guys, there were off-road instructors, a lot of hardcore overlanders, people that just build out vehicles and just travel up and down South America and Africa and all over Asia. One of the guys I met, who I just had a really fun time chatting with for a long time, was, his name is Brett Cooper, and he's a South African now living in Tucson, at least temporarily. And he and his wife, all they do is travel the world in basically the same Defender that I own. It's a, I believe it's a 93 110 2-door with the 200 TDI motor in it. And it was great to talk to him. He was very knowledgeable and just had such fascinating stories about, you know, trips up the Pantanal in Brazil and crossing the salt flats and going through Africa. And he had a lot of photos to share and a lot of wisdom around, you know, what it is to own these older vehicles. And, you know, one of my goals here, I really didn't have an illusion that I was going to be selected to move forward. And that's all fine and I had a great time. But it really, I just wanted to have fun and make some friends and learn some new skills and all of that. I can check all those boxes. The format of the event was we arrived, you know, we were taken from a hotel in Vancouver early one morning to this kind of base camp, which was a wilderness camp outside of Mission. And from there, they had us do a bunch of physical activities, there was a high ropes course, there was kind of a swimming competency test, there was an orienteering or kind of navigation course and bushwhacking through, you know, I mean, if you know the woods in British Columbia, like everything is covered with moss, very wet, very spongy, slippery, overgrown, and they just set us off.

Speaker 2:
[14:20] A special type of jungle.

Speaker 1:
[14:22] Yeah, exactly. They just kind of set us off to find checkpoints and move through the woods. The most brutal part was that was at the end of the day. It was getting dark. We came out of the woods, kind of feeling pretty good about ourselves. And then they said, okay, we emerged from the woods on this gravel road, and they had the back of a Defender open, stacked with jerry cans that held two gallons of water each, and two gallons of water weighs 20 pounds. And they said, okay, this is your water for the camp. Now, you gotta ruck this. Each person has to take one of these jerry cans and run to camp with one of these jerry cans of water, which was about two miles away on an undulating gravel road. And that was just, whoa, I don't think anybody enjoyed that. It was absolutely brutal.

Speaker 2:
[15:05] Yeah, that sounds really tough.

Speaker 1:
[15:07] To run carrying a jerry can was really rough. There was some rope work, some knot tying, building bridges, building tripods. And that wasn't even, that was all before we even got into a vehicle, even before we got to drive the Defenders. Because this was a kind of a two day session. And the first day was a lot of these physical and skills challenges. And then that night after we had dinner and we all set up, we were in this lovely campground right on a lake. I wish I had known exactly where it was. Some people listening might know from the photos I posted. But, you know, pleasant enough. We were, you know, boiling the bag, dinner, sitting around a fire. It was quite chilly. We were looking out at the beautiful sunset. And then darkness fell. And then they set us off on a night convoy with four people in each vehicle where we stopped along the way and rotated drivers. And they took us up some absolute billy goat trails, you know, really rocky, steep stuff at night in the Defenders. And I gotta say, I've spoken about going on record as sort of being a little snobby and skeptical about the new Defender. And I won't be buying one anytime soon, you know, way too expensive for me. But what a competent vehicle. That thing was just, you know, whereas when I've done off-roading in my Defender, I'm not going to pat myself on the back, but it's more about driver skill or ability or kind of really learning what you can and can't do. In these, the technology is such that, you know, in the stock condition, you know, with some off-road tires, we were able to just scale some incredibly steep rocky terrain, off-camber stuff, you know, through water, slippery, et cetera. So that was the night convoy. You know, got it and climbed into our sleeping bags, dead tired, 10.30. And then the next day was largely the driving stuff. So we did kind of some off-road trial stuff again. We had to build log bridge and drive over it. Some pretty gnarly, steep, you know, sandy trails and rocky descents and going through water and things like this. And I'm not going to go through each of the challenges, but one of the more fun ones was changing the tire, the left rear tire on a Defender where they said, okay, your spare tire is floating on a raft down this very steep gully, the sand slope down floating on a little knee deep muddy pond at the bottom of this. You've got to somehow get that up here by building a tripod out of three logs and rope with a pulley. And then as a team, pull the spare tire up the slope and then drive the vehicle to an area on this off-road trail where you can get the rear wheel up off the ground without using a jack. Take the wheel off, put the new wheel on. The judge who was kind of observing us, gives us the thumbs up, take the wheel off, put the original wheel back on, then return everything to where it was. So you got to put it, winch it, or not winch it, but lower the wheel back down the slope, put it back on the raft in the muddy pond, disassemble the tripod. You know, it was this kind of combination of teamwork and physicality and vehicle skills and just logic. And it was just, it was nonstop. It was that all day long. And we kind of rotated through different teams during the days. So you got to meet new people, even though we were kind of all judged individually. They were kind of rating people based on their skills and their kind of people skills and that sort of stuff. So in the end, two Canadians were chosen and two Americans, they announced that on the last night at a kind of a little campfire dinner thing. And those two then will kind of going up against the two that were chosen from the second wave and two from the third wave. So all together, you know, four from each. So 12 total that then go to upstate New York sometime in May for a defender event at one of those defender experience or Land Rover experience places where you do some off-road driving. And then they will announce the two winners from each country to go ahead for the Africa finals. So the winners definitely earned it. They definitely deserved it. You know, like I said, there were just some really competent people that I was quite in awe of actually some of these people's skills, you know, using high lift jacks and winching and doing knots and driving ability and that sort of stuff. So yeah, I don't know what else to say. I'm going to be writing up my experience for Substack this week and I've posted kind of a bit of a slideshow on Instagram. So if you want to check that out, you certainly can. And I'll certainly be kind of riding a high from, from this for a while to come. And so if you run across me or have any questions, let me know. But it was, it was a really, really great time. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[20:16] Sounds like a proper adventure for sure.

Speaker 1:
[20:18] It really was. Yeah. Exceeded expectation. So it was great.

Speaker 2:
[20:23] Yeah. Well, look, you're back from that. You're heading to California next week. I had to Vancouver in just a couple of days. Yeah. The other thing that I wanted to put out here and it kind of aligns with what we're going to be talking about for the bulk of the show, which is new watches, a lot of them quite expensive. You and I will be at Chicago Wind Up. We just sorted that out. We will be putting together some sort of a hangout. So stay tuned for that. If you're going to be in town, it's a great time obviously. So with Vancouver, just a few days away, we'll have Chicago Midsummer and then we'll have The Toronto Show towards the start of fall and end of the summer season. So it should be pretty good. What do you have coming up next week?

Speaker 1:
[21:04] Yeah, a couple of weeks of very varied adventures. Next week I fly to, and I should mention, since we're both gone next week, we do have a pretty cool episode lined up. I'm not going to tell you what, but it's with a really cool guest. It was a really interesting conversation, so stay tuned for that. But yeah, I will be flying to California this weekend. My girlfriend, Christy's daughter, is performing in a series of kind of avant-garde short operas. She's an opera singer in LA this weekend. Gosh, it's coming up. And then we're heading north. We're driving up the coast. We will finish in San Francisco. And along the way, I will be stopping near Big Sur to do some a bit of diving shenanigans, conditions permitting with some special TGN folks and people everyone here will be familiar with, including a chap who's in a different wave of the Defender Trophy. I'll get to see him there.

Speaker 2:
[22:07] Oh, nice.

Speaker 1:
[22:08] And then from there, it's on to... If you remember the last episode of Mad Men, the place where Don Draper ends up is, I will be there for a day.

Speaker 2:
[22:17] Like the yoga retreat spot?

Speaker 1:
[22:19] Exactly. I'm going there for a day. That's just north of Big Sur. And then finishing up the following weekend in San Francisco. And it's a good chance I'll pop in at wind up San Francisco. I mean, how can I not? It's going on that weekend and I'll be in town. So for sure, I'm going to try to get over there and then fly home. And then it's gardening season, which certainly doesn't feel like that here. We had snow yesterday morning and it's quite chilly today, but we're turning the corner. So it just feels like April was just a whirlwind and it's almost over now.

Speaker 2:
[22:52] It's crazy. I blinked and 20 days went by. Yeah. I feel like I have just been kind of attaching so much of my personal excitement to Vancouver.

Speaker 1:
[23:01] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[23:02] And I feel like that's helped me kind of just keep my head down and kind of push through the wall of work that is Watches and Wonders. But look, we've done travel and adventure and driving and diving. Why don't we get into some watches before we kick off the main topic, which of course is a look at all of the watches that we're kind of excited about, expensive and otherwise from Watches and Wonders. Why don't we dive into a quick risk check?

Speaker 1:
[23:26] Yeah, sure. Well, when I was narrowing down my selections to wear for Defender Trophy, I really wanted something light and rugged and useful. And I think it was a no-brainer. I wore my crew watch, number one, so the CWC, our TGN watch, which was the right choice, disappeared from my wrist. I just consulted it as I needed to and otherwise it just disappeared on the wrist. And I'm still wearing it today. So I've got it on an actual TGN Grey NATO, which surprisingly, I just, funny, I don't wear it that often in this configuration, but it looks just perfect, of course.

Speaker 2:
[24:05] And any like solid scratches or little dings or anything to remember it by, or did it just kind of come out unscathed?

Speaker 1:
[24:10] It came out unscathed. I was kind of disappointed. I wanted a big ding in the side, but nothing. Yeah, you've got something special.

Speaker 2:
[24:17] Because of the way that we timed the two weeks off, we missed a chance to talk about some watches, which will come up just shortly, that came out just before Watches and Wonders, but also the new Timex 8-Lap LE that came out with Hodinkee. So I was part of the team that was able to kind of inspire what we did with this limited edition. It sold out. We made 2,000 of them. And I just absolutely love it. I've been wearing it. I wore it a bunch at Watches and Wonders. You know, it's 135 bucks, which actually kind of puts it on the premium side of the 8-Lap. But I thought I was okay with that as far as largely the decision went there. You know, just a sort of Game Boy Nintendo translucent, transparent style case inspired version of the watch that got me kind of first hooked on watches when I was a kid. I've written about my love of the 8-Lap in my first one. I still have. This is based off the more modern OG version, which is still a hula hand design, you know, that we've seen in the Abu Garcia and the Shades of Grey and the 8-Lap OG and the, you know, the purpley one and the dark tone one. And, you know, we've had a lot of these. We've talked a lot about them over time. And when Timex kind of came to the LE team and they said, what else might you want to go for? They happened to come to me and said, you know, do you think it'd be cool? I said, we could make something that I would like. Whether or not it's cool, it will be up to, you know, something like 1,990 plus other people. But yeah, I think it came out really well. We minimized some of the text around the bezel. So it's dots in most places, instead of, you know, hardcore text. We've had a little Houdinkie signature right on the front, which I actually think looks pretty rad. You guys know I'm not normally much for putting a name right on something. It's got a cool Houdinkie case back. And then otherwise, I mean, the calling card is that it's a translucent, sort of smoked, semi-clear plastic case. And in a really dark room, you can kind of see the loom come out of the sides, which makes me happy. And you can see little bits of the mechanism. You can see the mounts for the stop start buttons and the lap up buttons. And then we've got sort of a matched out gray, sort of topi gray strap. So nothing fancy, certainly, but a watch that I think I'm going to get a lot of wear from. And just something that it was kind of fun to be part of. I said, you know, I like these watches, but that whole era of having these sorts of watches makes me think back to my translucent Game Boy, you know, N64 controllers that were like frosted green or purple or even G-Shock controllers from the PlayStation 2. I remember, like, just sitting in my basement playing Tony Hawk 2 with my brothers, and we all had our preferred kind of controller. And that, it was kind of a vibe. The memory cards were this sort of, like I said, like green or purple or clear sort of thing where you could get a hint of the tech that was inside, but it felt, and I still kind of love that aesthetic, and it feels like it's kind of come full circle. And we started with clear, if Timex would want, we could maybe see other colors down the future. No plans as of yet, but it sold out in that first day. I don't actually know how many hours I'd have to double check, but it sold out, and it seems like a lot of them ended up with folks on the Slack, which I'm thrilled about.

Speaker 1:
[27:27] I saw that.

Speaker 2:
[27:27] Like I said, maybe you're paying a $15 or $20 premium to have this one versus one of the other ones that we've rambled on about in past years, but I really like this. If you're curious and you're at the Vancouver show, I'll have it with me. So let me know if you want to check it out. I'll pull it out of the bag and we can take a look. So that's what I'm wearing today and probably what I'm wearing for the rest of the week. I just adore it.

Speaker 1:
[27:49] Yeah, it's great. And it's such a kind of a hat tip, obviously, to you and your love for these watches. And I think back to over the arc of all of the Houdinkie LEs that have come up. And there have been a few G-Shocks along the way, but this one just feels like this, it feels like definitely TGN space kind of creeping into the Houdinkie universe. And you know, not that that's a big stretch, but it's fun to see, and it was fun to see a lot of the TGN folks wearing those that got them. So that's really cool.

Speaker 2:
[28:20] Yeah, and if you're keen on what Jason was just talking about, this idea of like the TGN space creeping into the Houdinkie LEs, just stay tuned. There's something else coming that I absolutely can't say more about, but it is coming and it's not that far away. And it's an instant buy for me, if that helps describe it. It's in an accessible price point, and it's from a brand that we love. So let's look forward to that. But look, I've got this on the wrist. It's a nice bit of kind of perspective shaping as we step into Watches and Wonders. Look, like I said, kind of at the top, Watches and Wonders, this is always a little bit of a conflicted show for Jason and I, because you could talk about a lot of the different watches, but most of what comes out at Watches and Wonders is high premium to proper luxury to ultra sort of spec stuff. And a lot of that's not in our zone. That said, we always try and curate a list of the watches that we feel either represent our zone, but maybe not our price point, or do represent the zone and require and deserve some shine. So that's kind of what we're doing here. Obviously, our zone is maybe closer to a Vancouver show or a Chicago windup. But as you'll see, I'm quite excited about a few of the watches. I saw a ton of negativity online, which a lot of it's kind of meme and that's kind of fun. And I do get that. I think that a lot of it was line extensions, a lot of it was kind of stuff that I don't know that people will be talking about in six months. But there was some stuff there that I thought was genuinely interesting, even if it makes me wish maybe I had gone into being a hedge fund manager rather than a podcaster and a blogger. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[29:55] Well, I will say that I did appreciate, I think you brought it up a couple of times in the Houdini podcast that you guys were doing daily from Watches and Wonders. A point that you made was there's a time, we've talked about this in the show, you don't have to own something to appreciate it. You were saying, you can set the price aside and appreciate the object for what it is. I think that's the theme of these picks for the most part. Some of them are reasonably so.

Speaker 2:
[30:25] Look, it's also the theme for my final notes. There's a world in which I just get to be a fan of things, even if I know they cost too much money and that I'll never have one, and I'll never maybe even experience. But sometimes it's just the content around that thing I find delightful or the ability to have that in this mental list. We're going to start with a watch that for the next several years, if I do a watch draft and it can fit, it's going to be in the pick. It's going to be something somebody will have to steal if they want to take it from me. And that's a watch that I think a lot of you already know what I'm going to say, the Vacheron Constantin Overseas Dual Time Cardinal Points. So we had Corey Richards on back in the day, 21. They launched the Dual Time Everest in 21. It was 150 piece LE, about $31,000, $32,000 at the time. And of course, it sold out immediately. And let's be clear, it's not like I was on the waiting list. I don't have that kind of scratch. And I don't have the scratch for the new one. Just put it out there. And even if I did, I'm a father of three. I live in a very expensive city. I know there's people here listening that would understand it's not the way that I would spend my money. I drive a $20,000 Toyota Sienna and a Jeep that at this point is worth so little, I'll probably just hang on to it. You know what I mean? It would be crazy for me to spend $40,000 on a watch. But I love these. I just absolutely love them. If I had to go into a luxury brand, I love Vacheron, I'm a big fan. But this idea of a 41 millimeter grade five titanium comes with all three straps. Now you get a bracelet which didn't exist previously. And in the world of Vacheron, where you're paying what's now, 2019 watch prices were vastly different. So to be clear, this new watch is $41,000, which is not a small amount of money. But think about what pricing was like in the watch world in 2019, pre-pandemic, pre-COVID, all that kind of thing to now. And on top of that, you're getting a grade five titanium quick change bracelet that's finished to Vacheron standards. Not as wild as some of the other. Is it still a ton of money? No question, we're not going to argue that point. It's arguably not even that interesting to talk about. I love this watch. It's now available in, they're calling it the Cardinal Point, so it's north, south, east, west, which gives you four different color ways, a sort of silvery white, a green, a brown, and a blue. The white and the blue are the two standouts for me. The one thing I will give them credit for is, I don't like brown watches, like brown dials. I wear a ton of brown, and for whatever reason, I don't really enjoy brown dials on watches. Obviously, I like a brown strap, for sure. But this is a brown that has a lot of gray in it, and I like it a lot. It comes out really nicely. It matches the orange tone really well. And then the green seems to be where a lot of people are going, like this is the one. And the green in person is very soft, very subtle, very kind of emerald grass versus more of that artificial green that we see in a lot of shinier dials. Just a really good function set as well. So you have AMPM indication for home, but the date is tied to the local display, which makes a lot of sense. And then you have a, instead of it being more of a subtle dual timer, like a 5164A. So you have an entirely distinct, quote unquote, dual time hand, which is this orange arrow tip. I just, I love this watch. I will talk about it too much. If you dislike this watch, I apologize. You'll be hearing me talk about it a lot. It's now like right up there with a dream watch from a modern brand, like a modern dream watch from a current brand. It immediately leaps up next to an AP Royal Oak Offshore Diver and right next to the Everest, the preceding spec. Jason, on paper, does this, price conversation, I feel like we've crossed, but from a standpoint, how does this one speak to you?

Speaker 1:
[34:13] I mean, I'll admit, when I saw this, I immediately started, like, it didn't even take long before I started doing mental math thinking, like, if I just sold my entire collection, like, this could be one watch that, like...

Speaker 2:
[34:24] And then you could wear it every day.

Speaker 1:
[34:25] You could wear it every day, and I'd be very happy with it. Like, I'm smitten with it as you are. And I think, for me, it'd be the green. I'm looking at it straight up in the Houdinkie story with that sort of textile strap, and then the rubber strap in orange against that green looks great. And then I think the bracelet looks particularly nice with this green dial, and then the white sweep hand stands out against the green dial as well. It's a beautiful piece, and I'm curious what, if any, are the differences between this and the original Everest version? Did they change anything besides colorway or anything like specific branding?

Speaker 2:
[35:05] It's a slightly different version of the movement that has some NAC treatment for the bridges. I believe otherwise, it's a very faithful reconsideration. Different blue, obviously, the previous one was a different tone of blue, a little bit more on the purple side of the spectrum. But I believe otherwise, these are largely similar, slightly different finishing for the bezel. But I would have to see the two of them in person to remember, I'd like to be able to recall that. And if you're curious on more stories, we will have a hands-on on Hodinki for this watch, likely from Tantan, who is also in love with it. And then I have a special story coming up a little later. I want to be able to go back to the original model and a couple of the models that preceded it. I'd like to also, there's an opportunity to see everything, like the bloodline that led us to here, and incorporate Corey Richards again. So give me some time on that one, but it's definitely something I want to go a little bit deeper into how we got here, what this kind of represents for Vacheron and that sort of thing. But yeah, I dig it. And I'm also doing some of that mental math where I go, well, you know, this model would be really hard to get for a couple of years, so I could have some time to kind of put myself in a position for it. But like I said, I mean, it's not really a world in which I've ever attempted to play. But if I was, especially at a modern level, I just, I get it. This one speaks to me for sure.

Speaker 1:
[36:26] Yeah, yeah, that's really good. It was definitely the highlight of the show. When I even scrolled through our list, it was definitely top of the list. Well, I shouldn't, you know what?

Speaker 2:
[36:35] I shouldn't say that because there's some good, there's a couple other goodies, I think.

Speaker 1:
[36:38] Yeah, yeah, all right, where do we go from here?

Speaker 2:
[36:40] Yeah, let's jump into Tudor. Obviously, a fan favorite for the brand. And I mean, I don't want to gloss over Rolex, but Jason, was there anything that specifically spoke to you, like something you would want?

Speaker 1:
[36:50] No, not a bit.

Speaker 2:
[36:52] Me neither. I like the Jubilee dial, but it's not the kind of thing I'm going to go for. The rest of it was a lot of very expensive sort of gold and interesting stuff, stuff I think worth knowing about if you like being kind of encyclopedic on watches, but nothing that spoke to me directly. But with Tudor, I saw a couple of things that launched, and the main thing was an absolute curiosity for me. It was the kind of the time between when the PDF hit my inbox and when I got to hold it in my hands, was the moment of my most curiosity at the show, and that's with the Tudor Monarch. So the Monarch is sort of a 90s to early 2000s model, so kind of proceeded when Tudor made its way back to the North American market, or more specifically the America market. Tudor was available in Canada all during that time for the most part, and the Monarch's a weird model. You can't really pin it down to one idea. There was stuff in there that kind of felt like Tudor was going, was trying to distance themselves from being too similar to the Submariner, and maybe going more in the direction of an integrated steel sports watch, or even things like Tag Heuer Aquaracers. And I would just encourage you to try to go on Google's Image Search and search Tudor Monarch and scroll past the one reference that was launched a couple of days ago, just to see the scope, because they kind of put Monarch on a bunch of different watches, and there's not really what feels like a home plate for this design. But for this new model, it's a $5,800 watch from Tudor. It's in steel. It's 39 millimeters wide, and it uses both COSC and Metis, which is kind of in the Rolex playbook of using COSC, and then the superlative chronometer. They do both, where the movement is certified. And then once the watch is fully built, the movement's in the watch, then you get Metis, which is nice. And it's sort of, you know, it's not specifically like a 100th year anniversary model. It is the brand's 100th year, but it's like a rethinking of what the Monarch could be with its very faceted, almost Grand Seiko like case in some ways, and then a matching bracelet, and a movement that's only being used in this watch. So this one uses the MT5662-2U, which is a 65 hours of power reserve, it takes at four hertz, and it offers small seconds. And the watch itself has sort of a Cali dial with like a coppery sort of finish, I believe they call it like papyrus, with sort of like a brushed copper finish. When I saw the pictures, you know, calling balls and strikes, I thought this is weird, kind of strange. And then I looked at some of the other pictures where you get to see more of the relationship between the case and the bracelet, and I go, all right, I like it, it could be cool. It looks like it makes sense largely that, you know, it's one of those ones, does it look like a Tudor? That might be up to you. And then when I saw it in person, I was kind of swept away by it. I really like it. I think it's weird and fun and interesting and a bit of an oddball, that obviously that's my zone. And I really like the hands. I thought the finishing of the case and the bracelet was kind of like Black Bay Plus, kind of that next level up. When you get a peek at the case back of the, to see the movement, you see sort of a higher grade of finishing and anglage. And the bridging is a little bit different than we'd expect from something that we could see in a Tudor Pelgos or that sort of thing. 39 millimeters, not especially thick. I don't have the number here in front of me, but not thick enough to start having a, worrying about it. And then we've got an interesting sort of finishing point here, which is the center links, which is like steepled, like a roof. So no matter how you kind of turn it, it always holds the light in some way. Just a sort of a, I mean, unique as a stretch in the watch world, but within the scope of post 2012 Tudor, a very sort of unique option that I think offers a sort of special thing from a brand you know, but that's not a Black Bay, it's not a Pelagos, it's not something like that. On paper, how does this one hit you, Jason?

Speaker 1:
[40:52] I like it. I think it's nice looking. I think that what wins me over with this one is, yeah, the flow of the case into the bracelet. I'm not a California dial person, but the way they did it with these kind of raised, black kind of stark, minimally-

Speaker 2:
[41:08] Yeah, like fully applied.

Speaker 1:
[41:10] Yeah, they're really cool. And to incorporate the shield logo and then the handset. Like it's a clever way to integrate that sort of snowflake handset. But the real winner for me is the color of that dial. I think I could see this in other colors.

Speaker 2:
[41:23] That's the part that you like the most, eh?

Speaker 1:
[41:24] Yeah, I think this could work with kind of an interesting grained kind of more of a matte blue could work on this.

Speaker 2:
[41:32] I think a blue would be awesome.

Speaker 1:
[41:33] I think some other colors. This is a watch I think they could spin off a few different dial colors and it could work. It's such an oddball. It's like, why did they need to make this watch? But Tudor's always been that way. Like, why did they need to make the FXD? Why did they need to make the PO-1 or whatever? I love that Tudor does this sort of thing. It's not a watch I would own or wear, but it's a really neat thing for them. It's a nice looking watch.

Speaker 2:
[42:00] Oh, I could definitely see, like for me now, the Monarch would be direct competition if I was going for the Ranger 36.

Speaker 1:
[42:05] Oh really? Okay.

Speaker 2:
[42:06] Because I think I would wear them in a similar setting. This feels a little bit more special, a little bit more interesting, a little bit less expected. And the P01 will always have the oddball charm for sure, but then this whole background of a huge group of Tudor nerds expecting a certain watch and getting something else.

Speaker 1:
[42:25] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[42:26] Right? They were all expecting a sort of a tribute to a very specific reference from the early Tudor sub world. And with the Monarch 1, I don't know that anybody saw it coming. I didn't at least see anybody go, you know what they should do for their 100th is bring back a kind of oddball watch from the 90s. And on top of that, because I don't think they were necessarily promising anything to just come out and say like, hey, it's kind of a special thing that's off on its own. There's no official word that there's going to be like a broader Monarch line necessarily. I think it's a cool thing. And I like that it's not, we got a lot of other Black Bay, we got Metis and Jubilee bracelets, we got a ceramic bracelet for the Black Bay Ceramic. We got a new Black Bay 54 Blue, which we can get into in just a moment. I like that the unexpected thing was like totally outside of any of those lines, which is kind of cool.

Speaker 1:
[43:20] Yeah, Tudor kind of has to, they have to take care of their other lines too. I mean, I think we're so focused, at least in our little bubble with Pelagos and Black Bay and Ranger, kind of the sports with the classic sports watches that we all love and go gaga over. But they've got other watches and other audience as well, so they've got to take care of those people.

Speaker 2:
[43:40] Absolutely. Yeah, and I thought that the in-person, the update to the Royal was actually quite nice. That's one where I would say I'm not going to seek one out necessarily. But it made more sense, it felt much more refined, the sizing is really good. I thought the pricing is quite realistic for the world we're in these days. And I think if that's the sort of watch that speaks to you, I think you'd be quite happy with it. I got a chance to see them in person and a few different specs, a few different sizes, and I think they work quite nicely. And then with the Monarch, I think that the brand needs some stuff that's kind of divisive or so characterful that some people will really like it and others will go, oh, I'd rather have my whatever that I already have. I think that's okay. It's fine to have that sort of, it keeps them relevant, keeps them in the conversation and that sort of thing. And then the next one to chat over, because it's something that I think we've actually talked about on the show, was this idea of like, oh, if they had a Tudor 54 in blue, that would be quite interesting. What do you think of this from the release?

Speaker 1:
[44:43] I would say I was a little disappointed in the shade of blue. It's too bright. I think bright is the word I'm thinking of here.

Speaker 2:
[44:50] It's very radiant, to be even more specific.

Speaker 1:
[44:53] Like if they'd used the blue from the other Black Bay, like the 58, it would have been a winner for me. But yeah, this is a little bright, just like the kind of that burgundy didn't quite do it for me, or the kind of the reddish.

Speaker 2:
[45:09] Yeah, again, because it's a very metallic sort of finish.

Speaker 1:
[45:11] Yeah, and that has its lovers, of course, but I'm not one of them. But yeah, cool line extension for them.

Speaker 2:
[45:18] Yeah, and I could see it being popular. For me, it's a miss. I love the idea of a blue one without guilt and all that kind of stuff, but I do wish it was the blue from the 58.

Speaker 1:
[45:29] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[45:30] This was much more, like we said, kind of radiant, sunbursty, bright with highlights. And also, the dial especially has a strong undercurrent of like a purple. That's much more noticeable in live images, which just didn't work for me. This would keep me still kind of preferring the black spec for this model. But all in all, from Tudor, I think a nice year of updates, I think seeing the ceramic bracelet, quite exciting. If you're a Black Bay ceramic fan, a Black Bay black fan, I think that's a very cool addition for that watch because it's not something that a lot of brands are doing. And then otherwise, just some strong updates of bringing Metis and bracelet options to more watches, more colorways in the 58, the BB58, GMT as well. So strong stuff all around, kind of strengthening that catalog.

Speaker 1:
[46:21] Yeah, and if we loved all the Tudors that were released, we'd be far poorer. So it's probably good that they have some years where we don't pull out our credit cards.

Speaker 2:
[46:29] Absolutely, yeah. And I think you gotta call balls and strikes, and you may look at this 54, Black Bay Blue, and really like it. And that's kind of the point of having line extensions is to having more for more people. So I would say good stuff all around. Definitely, I will have a story on the Monarch, maybe by the time this episode goes up, we'll see when I can get to it. But I shot some nice photos, so it's definitely something I'm interested in, learning a little bit more about what the Monarch was and how that might pertain to what the Monarch is, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:
[47:01] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[47:02] So yeah, that's the new Tudor watches, but it's not the only Tudor stuff I want to talk about. The other thing that we got to do, and it started to trickle out on social media, and we'll have a photo report in the coming couple of weeks on Houdinki, is this Tudor Collector event that they threw this year. So normally they would do a dinner, invite some of the press, you come down, you have a glass of wine, you have some dinner, maybe some people dance on a trapeze or something like that, and it's all very Swiss. This year, they decided to bring a bunch of people to the HQ, and by a bunch of people, I mean a selection of press and journalists and influencers that know Tudor well, and a huge group of collectors, where they had a giant table, and each collector had a little spot, and they brought out some of the most wild, essentially everything you could imagine, the most complete collection of vintage Tudor military spec sort of stuff. If you're a Snowflake fan, if you love issued divers, if you love watches with incredible backstories and all that kind of stuff, it was just a table full of one hit after another. It was hard to contextualize. I don't actually know how I'll be able to tell even a percentage of the stories in something like a photo report. It was just one tray of incredible, collectible vintage Tudor that I've ever seen. You and I have been on a lot of Tudor events where people pull out something interesting with a great case back or a special dial, and it was just like 10 of those per tray, just moving around a table.

Speaker 1:
[48:32] Wow, that's amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[48:35] Some really, really cool stuff there. So we'll figure that out in the next coming few days, but look forward to that. And a big thank you to obviously our good buddy Cole, as well as to Christoph and the rest of the team at Tudor for including an invite to that event. It was overwhelming when I walked in the room. I had been going for 16 hours at that point, and then I was like, oh, this could take me two days to chat with everybody and contextualize the story. So it might be a little bit of a lighter photo report on that scope. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[49:04] Wow. All right, should we move up the food chain? That's unfair to Tudor, but up the price chain, let's say, with maybe diving to IWC?

Speaker 2:
[49:15] Yeah, there was some great stuff at IWC this year, but the one that stood out for me, I think a lot of it's very understandable if you know the brand. Like it was intelligent kind of tweaks. There's new enginer stuff, all the way up to titanium QPs, new 35-millimeter colorways. Some good stuff there, and Blake Bettner did a great job kind of summarizing it for Hoodinky, so we'll include Blake's story in the show notes. It's such a treat to have Blake write for us. And he also covered the Panerai stuff, which we're just about to get into. But the one that I think was hard to understand unless you had a moment with it was the Pilot's Venturer Vertical Drive, which is a 44 by 16.7 millimeter ceramic white watch that's kind of made in conjunction with Vast. And it's just a very cool mechanism where they've set both the standard timekeeping and the secondary timezone timekeeping into a little kind of clutch and switch on the side of the watch and then the bezel. And IWC does some stuff where you can change the time with the bezel. They have the timezoner itself, quite a large watch. But here, yes, it's a big watch, but it wears quite nicely. And that bezel turning feature is a bit of a delight. So I would definitely spend some time reading more about that online. I thought quite a cool thing. Comes in at like $28,200. So again, kind of outside of our normal scope. But they had a pretty solid run of new models, new petit prints, colorways for a bunch of different watches. Like I said, new Anshaners, the Sarah loom in person is nuts. Like it's the strap, the case, the dial. It's all loom. We put up with just a short reel of the loom coming in action. You can see my hand with the Olight charging it in on Houdinki and it immediately kind of blew up on the channel. I think it's very cool. Kind of silly, but I would like to see them extend that to more watches, something more in a smaller size range. And then you got the new ProSet, which is both a kind of rethinking of the sizing of a big pilot QP, but at the same time, a movement that now allows you to set it backwards, which is a, or like adjust it backwards. Adjust is probably better than set it, which has been sort of not an Achilles heel, but a pain point for people with those QP movements over the past little while. So the ProSet's a really nice evolution of product has like worked for the brand for a long time.

Speaker 1:
[51:42] Yeah, very cool. I, you know, I'm still waiting for IWC to kind of return to some level of their roots. I do think that with this venture and the QP, like they're still IWC in the engineering sense, but in terms of the aesthetic sense and kind of the minimalism. And also like, where's the aqua timer? I just, I'm just waiting for one of these years, they're going to come out with an aqua timer and then we'll be, you know, the angels will sing and we'll be really happy.

Speaker 2:
[52:17] But I'm very excited for whenever that happens for sure. Cause I think if they take the space, like the attention that they gave the engineer in taking something that they know and updating it for today and lots of nice sizes and complications, and if you just apply that, like I understand that the aqua timer is still made to some extent, but it's the absolute least prioritized line at the brand, it has been for several years. And I just think you look back, you and I ramble on about what 3568s and the Cousteauxs, they only have to go back 20 years to see some pretty cool stuff and then just modernize that a little bit, keep the price in the pilot's range. I think that could be really good. And I also think it's a space where the next two brands we're going to talk about are kind of showing them what's possible in the, let's call it seven to eight to $15,000 range for interesting special dive related sort of watches. So I think let's jump in to a Grand Seiko.

Speaker 1:
[53:15] Yeah, yeah. This Spring Drive UFA Ushio 300 Diver. I remember you, when you first saw this, you wrote me and you said, I mean, you were super excited. They finally made the size that everybody's been hoping for because that's been the gripe that we've had for so long with Grand Seiko is just these giant dive watches. They've always been beautifully finished and spectacular watches, but just mammoth. So why don't you tell us about this one?

Speaker 2:
[53:43] So if there's some world in which folks listening to TGN didn't catch that there's a new high spec GS Diver, this is a 40.8 millimeter by I think it's a 12.9 millimeter 300 meter dive watch from the brand, all made in high intensity titanium. And then it runs the brand's relatively modern 9RB1UFA ultrafine accuracy movement, which is plus minus 20 seconds a year. And yeah, it's basically, it's at least some version of the watch that a lot of people have been asking for. Where I think people have gotten some sort of divisive elements is the dial design. It's very Grand Seiko, it's very beautiful. It's really, really nicely made and it has these lovely markers, but it's also at the same time a little bit fancy for a dive watch. Yeah. Fancy is a word that I don't like, but I don't really have a better version here. It's very elegant, the dial. It feels like a dial taken from a different Grand Seiko and then put on something more like a diver. And I'm curious to see where this line evolves and where we maybe just get a black dial or a blue dial, or that, you know, there was that purpley toned dial of the larger model of a few years ago.

Speaker 1:
[54:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[54:55] And then the other thing that comes up in the conversation, and look, this comes up in the conversation of a lot of watches, is the price. This is a $12,400 dive watch. And what I would say is the difference between reading the stuff online, which I am excited about this watch, I'm thrilled that they're making it, that they're putting this movement into this watch. I would go with, for me, at this price point, it wouldn't have to be the UFA. It could be any one of their great automatic movements. That would be fine for me, especially if it meant that you could get it down under the $10,000 price point. If they had a version of this with a more basic, simple dive watch sort of execution. But the same case, the bezel is really good. The hands, I really like. I really like most of the stuff. It's the most premium spec for the brand right now. And UFA is a flagship and all that sort of thing. It really felt like we took... What's the right way to say this? Okay, if you imagine an SBB 143 or even one of the SLA divers and then cross it with a bathyscaphe, it's kind of like this. It has this technical attribute, but at the same time, the bathyscaphe always has a fairly subtle dial, but it has these beautiful markers. It's still very Blancpain. And I think that's where this kind of lands. And if you're comparing them in that metric, the pricing makes more sense. I think that it largely comes down to what you had in your mind as like what a Grand Seco diver should cost. The pricing could be a conversation that's exceptionally subjective on this metric, as Grand Seco has a ton of fans and has done a lot of work in the over $10,000 market for the past while. I really like this one, especially the blue, where the dial really looks like the surface of water and that sort of thing. It's a little bit romantic, but at the same time, it's a little bit technical. And it's so different from a Pelagos or a Bathyscaph or a Submariner and that sort of thing. And the quality, my experience with the quality of my hand is just very high.

Speaker 1:
[56:55] Yeah, I'm not, you know, my only quibble with this, and it's not even a quibble, this is my personal taste. And I'm just not a textured dial person, you know, in any sense, but Grand Seiko does it better than anybody. And they do it in so many of their watches, not specifically the dive watches, but across all their lines. So it does make sense here. And I think this is a brand that has always, you know, when price comes up, there's always this bit of justification that Grand Seiko fans kind of feel a bit of a chip in their shoulder and they have to kind of back it up with, well, yeah, but it's not Seiko, it's Grand Seiko, and they do this and this and they do everything really well. And if you hold it in your hand and look at the finishing, I mean, it comes with this whole raft of justifications, but for people that really know their stuff and are really watch nerds, like so many of us are, like we get it. And I would imagine that this is just a superior watch in almost every metric, you know, even compared to some of the Swiss brands that you mentioned, you know, like we're talking, you know, above the Submariner pricing in this case, you know, we're inching into the kind of Blancpain, you know, the Bathyscaphe pricing area.

Speaker 2:
[58:01] Yeah, especially in the big titanium and obviously the very high-end movement and that sort of thing for sure.

Speaker 1:
[58:06] Good to see. And good to see the size getting more reasonable. That's great.

Speaker 2:
[58:10] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think a great move. And especially if this ends up being, you know, the footing for an expanded line, where, like I said, we might get some more simple versions, lesser, you know, less accurate movements in the grand scheme of things and more simple dials. I think I could really see this being a hit for the brand in the long term.

Speaker 1:
[58:30] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:31] This feels like something the brand had been asked for several times in terms of, please, please take these watches we really like and make them a little bit smaller.

Speaker 1:
[58:39] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[58:39] And I think it works. You know, not unlike the conversation we had years ago where, you know, you were able to go from the larger like SRP777 to an SPB143 and drop down a few millimeters. This is the same thing. Just take into that sort of ultra premium level.

Speaker 1:
[58:58] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's move on. This was, to me personally, as Jason Heaton, star of the show, Panerai, so happy to see them returning to some of this stuff. You know, getting away from a lot of the, you know, some of the exotic materials and kind of the sailing focused stuff, which is, you know, it's all fine. But, you know, I just crave these kind of more simple luminars. And boy, they knocked it out of the park with so many of these. I was just drooling over these.

Speaker 2:
[59:26] Yeah. So they did. And we have a story also from Blake Bettner. Shout out Blake. Thanks again. Covering kind of the five luminars. There was a very special one with like a 30 day power reserve. That's, you know, like six figures and that's fine. Definitely, they do that to speak to a certain type of their collector. But these really represent what feels like a core that they haven't been talking about for a while. The pricing's, you know, modern, panoramic, so we've got, I think you and I are going to talk mostly about the 44 millimeter versions, specifically the 1732, which is the 44 millimeter Luminor, but in with the blue dial and the left side, the Destro. It's really, really nice in person. Looks good, feels good, wears really nicely. I mean, it's still 44 millimeter panoramic, so it's big, but it's big with purpose. It's like it was meant to be big. It doesn't feel oversized to me, if that makes any sense. And just an absolute delight, the blue's really, really distinctive, and on a strap, it hits that panoramic thing really well. 9200 bucks, which feels, you know, I've definitely reviewed a 42 millimeter submersible well before the pandemic, that was 10 or 11 or $12,000. So this is just offering something a little bit more special. What do you think of the blue, or the black version, the standard version with the right side crown?

Speaker 1:
[60:51] I'm just absolutely smitten with this, and you know, looking at this full kind of new lineup of Luminors, there were several in here that, again, you know, scheming, mental math, et cetera. But this matte blue dial, or the Brunedo Steel, with that, I guess, it's kind of a gray dial. Just, I don't know, they're both just stunning watches. But the blue is just that much different. And I'm a bit on the fence about blue dials in general. I mean, we just talked about the new Black Bay 54 with the blue that didn't quite hit us right. But this blue really does hit me right, at least in photos.

Speaker 2:
[61:26] Absolutely, yeah. Look, I mean, the 1732, I like both of the new 44s, it's definitely the 1732. Left side crown is nice for a larger watch. I wear my watch on my left wrist, so that's kind of handy in some ways. If you're worried about the possibility of the crown kind of hitting a bony spot on your wrist, 9,200 bucks, that's a lot of money, obviously, for a watch of any type. But then if you're going to be in for $9,200, I'm not going to skip what's a relatively small jump up to $11,300, again, all within perspective. And that's the 1733, which is the Giorni 8. So it's an 8-day power reserve model that uses this. It's steel, but they use a PVD coating or sort of a coating to the steel that's then worn away. And in person, it's just like, it's an absolute stunner. This is just a really, really pretty big watch.

Speaker 1:
[62:19] Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:
[62:19] And the 8-day power reserve and all that kind of stuff, if that's meaningful to you, kind of helps, but.

Speaker 1:
[62:25] That is meaningful. But I'm not usually a power reserve person. Just wear your watch, it'll stay wound with an automatic. But for something like this, where it's a hand-wound 8-day power reserve, that is something special. That's just something I would just get such a thrill out of, just letting this thing run for a week.

Speaker 2:
[62:45] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I don't disagree. And I think also, like I said, if you're already in for nearly 10 grand, you're at least going to be considering this one, for your extra money, not only are you getting the different steel treatment, you're also getting the upgraded movement and the coloring between that aged sort of effect steel and then the very tan sort of coloring of the dial just feels so core Panerai. And I like that it's not all polished. A standard Luminor like the 1732 is quite a polished sort of experience. Very cool. And obviously if you're willing to go up even higher to 47 millimeters, they had the limited edition in forged titanium, which is very cool. But now we're talking $24,000. And Jason and I both came into the world when you could buy a base 005 or whatever, maybe secondhand, maybe not in the $4,000 to $5,000 range, and often secondhand less than that. And it can be difficult to translate to today's pricing. But if you're in the zone, I think the two, that Destro especially and the 8-day in the Brunito Steel definitely spoke to me. Both really, really handsome things.

Speaker 1:
[63:58] Yeah, definitely a winner for the show for me. All right, let's jump into some more affordable stuff here. Well, reasonably more affordable and in some cases, quite a bit more affordable with the new releases from Zinn. Now, were they at Watches and Wonders or were they over at Time to Watches?

Speaker 2:
[64:12] They're at Watches and Wonders proper.

Speaker 1:
[64:14] Oh, nice.

Speaker 2:
[64:14] I got to see Marcus and the team right down the hall from Nomos, which is a real treat. I got to see them in there and they were thrilled to be there. They had the entire line up. So you could just walk around to a case and open a glass door and just pick up a 613 or a 556 or whatever you're into.

Speaker 1:
[64:31] So for somebody like you, like to go to Watches and Wonders and be visiting Cartier and Paddock and Vacheron, do you just have this like, do you just feel your body relaxing when you walk into the Zinn booth and just be like, these are my people, these are my watches?

Speaker 2:
[64:46] Yeah, I think definitely. You know, a lot of it is quite regimented. You know, there aren't watches available to just pick up. You have to have the meeting, you have to go into the room, and then they bring in one tray at a time, and every watch has to have the full storytelling. And with Zinn, the storytelling is there, but you're going to have a conversation with Marcus, shout out Marcus, if you're listening. He's an absolute gem. Andy and I went to check these out, and they just kind of put a tray down on a table in an open air space, like where other people are walking around. It's very casual. It's very straightforward. It's very light on pretense, if you will. And on the table, we had the new 554 and 554RS. We had the new version of the 936 now in S, the full black kind of treatment, the chronograph. And then the one that I know that you were interested in was the 308 hunting watch. Three different specs. Obviously the one that spoke to me, if I'm aggressive enough to go first in this trio, is the 554. Jason, obviously you have a 144. I've owned a 144 in the past. And imagine if you take a 144, cross it with a 556, which is like kind of the brand's entry level pilot style watch, put those two together and you kind of get this really interesting, not that very big, easy to wear and nicely priced, kind of Salida powered. Take on kind of blends of bits of field watch and pilot's watch all in one, very 144 in its execution. Did this one interest you at all?

Speaker 1:
[66:17] Oh, definitely. I think of the three actually, even though being a big chronograph guy that the 936 was a real winner for me. The hunting watch, I'm not a hunter. Interesting watch, beautiful looking, et cetera. But yeah, the 544 of the three would be the one that I go for, not only for its aesthetics, but price-wise, it's quite reasonable. And I just feel like this is that space that Zinn does so well in. They're known for chronographs. They're known for these really high-tech rugged divers. But when it comes down to it, I think I've known of about two people that in the past kind of bought... We're looking for a one watch, truly a one watch that they just thought, I just want something that just works and I can take anywhere and do anything with. And Zinn is one of those brands that most people don't know about, the average person. But to throw this on your wrist and just to go back to my Defender Trophy stuff, I can almost see someone traveling the world and not wanting to have to worry about their watch and kind of flies under the radar. This is the one, especially this 544. It's slim, it's like on the bracelet, it's so seamless and it would just wear well. Great size. Obviously, it's going to have that Zinn durability to it. Definitely the winner. And I personally would go for the RS with the red sweep hand. Yeah, or sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[67:43] And yeah, so that's the only difference between the 544 and the 544RS is the color of the seconds hand. It's just a little bit of a splash of color. Kind of feels a little bit like RS is a good call because it does kind of feel weirdly more automotive.

Speaker 1:
[67:54] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[67:55] Yeah. Like a rev counter or something like that. Maybe that's just, you know, my interpretation. But the pricing, if you buy this on a strap in the US., which is only through Watchbuys, so you have the one option, is 1740 for a brand new Zinn with an automatic 60-hour power reserve, 38.5 millimeters, whereas nice and thin, I would personally either go strap and then put it on a NATO. It comes on sort of a pseudo-bund, fold over. It looks good, but not my style. Or if you really want something that makes the case feel like it's just part of the bracelet, if that makes any sense, the unit on the bracelet is 2170. So you get the full steel bracelet and they flare the link that connects with the hooded lug so that it comes off quite seamless. And there's just way more metal in the bracelet and clasp than there is in the watch. So it ends up with this sort of integrated cuff-like feel.

Speaker 1:
[68:50] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[68:52] The thing that it reminded me of is watches that have the like Olongapo bracelet, because there's just so much metal kind of wrapping it around your wrist. It's a cool effect.

Speaker 1:
[69:00] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[69:00] It's not really like anything I've come across before. It's their H-Link quick adjust bracelet. And again, we're talking under $2,200, which not an inconsiderable amount of money, but well under the Tudor price point, maybe over most of the Seiko Hamilton sort of price point. But in that middle, with a brand that is just, we're big fans of Zen.

Speaker 1:
[69:21] Yeah, great, great stuff. The 936S with the 60 minute counter, I'm in the chronograph, unique feature, great looking piece. Zen just does great all black watches anyway. They just almost feel like a brand that's kind of made to always have a black version of everything. So that one's sharp as well. So yeah, strong showing, glad you got to see them and glad they're at Watches and Wonders Proper now. That's a big move up for them.

Speaker 2:
[69:46] Yeah, it's exciting to see them for sure, a fan fave. Next up, let's jump into Oris.

Speaker 1:
[69:52] Yeah, the standout for me was this Star Edition. It's just kind of a simple piece that just looks so authentically kind of, I guess, 60s. With this tonneau shaped case, it kind of reminds me of so many watches of that era, like Omega Constellations or just so many of those vintage pieces that you find at vintage shops or things like this. And good to see the Oris star name on the dial again.

Speaker 2:
[70:19] Yeah, it was one of those ones where, and Oris does this with other models, but a few brands are good at it, where you literally feel like you're picking up a vintage watch.

Speaker 1:
[70:27] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[70:28] It doesn't weigh anything. The 35 with the tonneau case wears a little bit bigger, so I think 35 is quite smart. It probably lands in that 36, 37 zone. It's not offered on a bracelet, but I would immediately go, what's the most interesting bracelet I could kind of source for this, from either vintage or vintage-ish aesthetic. And coming in with a nice backstory that connects with the brand and also a price point of 2,300 bucks, I think this will be an interesting watch for the brand that, again, kind of plays to their strengths, but isn't just another pointer date or isn't another aquis. It's something a little bit extra, a little bit on the side, sort of like we talked about with the Monarch. And I just think the pricing makes sense. It's 11.1 millimeters thick and only 41 millimeters lug to lug, which means it's going to be very comfortable, but it's also probably work on a lot of different straps, depending on how you want to mess around with it. And that's where I think a bracelet could be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1:
[71:26] Yeah, it is nice to see Tudor, Oris, whatever, kind of moving beyond the usual suspects. We've come to expect new AQUAS line extensions or a new Diver 65, or pointer dates and stuff. And this is just a bit out of left field and kind of one of those kind of, I don't want to call it necessarily a do anything watch, but it's not, it fits somewhere between a dress watch and kind of just an everyday watch. And at 35 millimeters with this shape case, I could see it wearing quite well. And I would certainly wear something like this at that size. It looks great.

Speaker 2:
[72:01] And then the next one, while we're kind of touring brands we like, and just down the way both geographically in Germany, but also in the halls in Geneva, would be Nomos. And there were kind of two, there's a lot to cover with Nomos if you wanted to get into these two of two sort of unique art dial watches, not really our zone, but I would encourage you if that sounds interesting. They're also extending into precious metals with a bunch of yellow gold models this year, which I think work really well for them. And probably offer some of their most ardent fans something a little bit more special than what they're used to. In person, all really good stuff. But the two main ones are the Tengente Neomatic 38 Update. People seem very excited about that. And then more core to maybe certainly my interests is, obviously the Club Sport Neomatic World Timer has had two standard versions since it came out. The sort of steely blue and the sort of steel tone dial. And now joining the non-limited edition options will be a white dial and it's really good in person. And I love that it's not limited. But now they have what feels like the best of the three, certainly for my taste, unsurprisingly a white dial. What did you think of this one? Or the update?

Speaker 1:
[73:20] Yeah, no, I think the white dial looks good and I'm looking at it right now and I was going to ask you.

Speaker 2:
[73:25] It's matte, unlike most of their other colorways. The other standard colorways are quite metallic.

Speaker 1:
[73:30] Yeah, I mean, I still think I prefer, like if I was going to go world timer, in this case, I would go for one of the more colorful dial versions. But, you know, white dial works on this, especially with the kind of the nod to the Pepsi on the 24-hour sub-dial, looks great, for sure.

Speaker 2:
[73:48] A good year for them, I think. There's a ton more, you should check it out if you're a big NOMOS fan, because you have the addition, like I said, of a lot of precious metals, and then these unique sort of art options that are being sold as pairs, which is, like I said, maybe not our zone necessarily, but certainly cool stuff from them. And then we've got a few more that I want to throw out before we get too deep into the episode, and that would be one that I haven't had a chance to see in person, but Andy and Tim did and said it was just fantastic, and that's the new JLC Master Control Chlorometra. So this spans a time only, a version with a power reserve and then a QP at the top of the range, starting around $12,000. It's their integrated bracelet sport sort of design. And I think it looks really good. I probably prefer, I don't know, of the three, the QP is very cool, but I think the best balance seems to come from the power reserve model. Which has a dial at nine for the power reserve and then another dial at three for the date. Really beautiful, very JLC sort of dial execution. Definitely something I'm looking forward to seeing in person. And then the time only just looks like a really straightforward take on sort of the master control dial dropped into what feels like, you know, if you imagine a integrated sports sort of design from JLC.

Speaker 1:
[75:12] Yeah, I'm happy to see a JLC that I'm kind of excited about this time around. We don't talk about them a lot anymore, and this is a fun one. I prefer just the time and date one. I think it looks great.

Speaker 2:
[75:22] Yeah, it's a good looking watch. I'm excited to see where they can kind of move in that, again, expand from there, kind of like with the Grand Seiko. And then the next one in a nicely priced category is a kind of a new update to the Alpina Star Timer Pilot. This is 40 millimeter watch. It's only a little, a hair over 10 millimeters thick. Stainless steel, you can go black, blue or green. I actually really like the black. And Jason, you dropped this one, and I appreciate you did, because it's a very recognizable Flieger adjacent sort of design, but then at the same time, kind of a matte texture dial, and then the like 3D kind of milled blocks of lume. And I think it works pretty well. What do you think of this?

Speaker 1:
[76:03] Yeah, I do too. I think it's handsome. I think, you know, Alpina, especially with these kind of pilot's watches, the Star Timer series that they've done for years, they've always looked a little bit like, you know, kind of along with the raft of kind of big pilot alternatives, like for the affordable, you know, kind of version of those. And I think this one stands apart a little bit more, especially with the dial texture and kind of the three-dimensionality of that dial with the raised kind of minute track and then that blocky loom. And then the smaller size just makes it more accessible. And Alpina kind of, I've always kind of liked their watches from afar. And I think, you know, the pricing on these is 1795 in steel and you can get the black PVD-coded one for 1895. So, you know, if you're looking for this style of watch with a little tweak on a little bit difference to it, I think these are solid choices, especially since they offer some different colors, which isn't always the case with kind of this genre of watch that tend to be pretty sober.

Speaker 2:
[77:02] Yeah, I think the sort of rich but not over-stated blue looks quite handsome in the steel. And then I think I have to imagine the full black on black will be quite popular. It's a nice price point for the watch. You get a date, which kind of suits it. And nothing about the watch feels overdone. So I would say kudos to Alpine on that. And again, able to hit a price point that is not common at the Pal Expo last week, you know what I mean? Look, let's close it out with a look at what I think was kind of a pretty interesting and big year for Tag Heuer. We've got the new Monaco now in Titanium. And then we have, if you're willing to go kind of into a whole kind of different realm for Chronograph, a brand new way of actuating a Chronograph, the Evergraph. Big year, they're calling it the year of the Chronograph for them, continued massive connection into, you know, sort of continued massive connection into Formula One. Last year, we saw kind of the entry level to that with the new F1. And this year we're seeing sort of a lean into the world where they started with the automatic Chronograph with the Monaco. And now we're seeing the kind of new cutting edge in the Evergraph, which is like a very special project that really rethinks the way that a Chronograph might work. And its peers are, you know, I think it's a $28,000 watch or something like that. Its peers are not in that price point. You know, like some of the technology that's in this, we see in things like the RD5.

Speaker 1:
[78:28] Oh, sure.

Speaker 2:
[78:29] From Audemars Piguet.

Speaker 1:
[78:30] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[78:31] And it's, I think both, you know, a new Monaco and Titanium, that's great. People who love the Monaco can connect with that. But the Evergraph feels like a leap for them. It's also the first one with their new hairspring technology, the carbon hairspring technology, to be put in sort of a production watch. So I think a huge year for Tag Heuer, for sure.

Speaker 1:
[78:56] Yeah. These are great. I mean, especially the Titanium Monaco's. I mean, again, I think this is one of those watches. I don't know where I would slot it in, in terms of kind of our, over the years we've done various episodes talking about guilty pleasures or, you know, watches we like, but would never own. I think this is one of them. I think the Monaco's one that I've kind of admired from afar, and if I see someone wearing it, I always want to handle it and try it on, but it's just, it's not my personal taste. It's just nothing I would wear, but every time I see them, they're really cool. And this Titanium Monaco in the kind of traditional blue with the red is just tremendous. It's great stuff. And it's such core Tag Heuer that it's good to see.

Speaker 2:
[79:38] Yeah, I think it's a line that, you know, kind of like what we were talking about with the Aqua timer. It's not that Tag wasn't servicing it. They were extending it. They had a bunch of good models. I like the kind of standard steel one they've had for a while. They never quite fit my wrist that well, but I will say that's probably more that I sell them. Get to try one on with like a strap that's broken in. It's always like, you know, the brand new strap that has to wear down a little bit. They are an interesting, very obviously, truly kind of a unique proposition with an incredible history. And it's nice to see them just kind of continually work on it, especially, like I said, with this connection to Formula One. I mean, like if you have Max Verstappen on your roster of ambassadors and you've got your brand name all over cars and the timing at Formula One, you kind of need a cutting edge chronograph. And I think the Evergraph takes that slot. I think it's a good, interesting product that comes from the right sort of history for that brand.

Speaker 1:
[80:39] Yeah, and you know, as you were talking, I was trying to bone up on my Evergraph because I wasn't that familiar with this one. And I'm looking at this article that looks like Mark wrote for Hodinkee.

Speaker 2:
[80:50] This article is nuts.

Speaker 1:
[80:51] It is nuts. I'm going to read this. I'm going to set it aside and read it after we're done here.

Speaker 2:
[80:54] I highly recommend.

Speaker 1:
[80:56] There's this whole history of, you know, how Reset works in a chronograph and with multiple examples, goes very in depth. So yeah, I'm going to have to read up on this and see what's different about the new one.

Speaker 2:
[81:08] Absolutely. Well, look, that's everything that we kind of put on the list. I guarantee there's probably a couple of things that we missed. So by all means, let us know in the Slack if there's something that you go, hey, why don't you guys talk about this or that? This kind of encapsulates the majority of what I saw that immediately resonated with me or that got me excited, whether from just I'm happy it exists zone or dream watch zone, or like I could definitely own this or would absolutely recommend. Like the 554 is just a new recommendation. When someone goes like, hey, I just want a really good watch that's like doesn't cost a huge amount of money, but will work and kind of stay out of the way and keep up with my life and that sort of thing. So some really good watches. Obviously, hopefully I'm not overstepping here, but normally we would have DOCSA to announce. The only thing that they had that was available to speak about at this time was the Sub 202, which is the new larger sizing for the previously existing Sub 200. That said, they have some stuff coming. I don't feel too bad about DOCSA, the timing. If I was DOCSA, I also wouldn't announce major watches amongst the other 200 brands that are doing that one week. I would say stay tuned on that one. But yeah, that's the rundown, man. For you, it's the Panerai. It's somebody else's credit card. We're just having a little bit of fun here.

Speaker 1:
[82:25] Oh yeah, I think it'd be the Blue Destro Panerai. I mean, all day, every day. The blue one? Yeah, I think so. I think it would be the Blue Destro. I think it's just different enough with the left-hand crown and that gorgeous blue dial, I think, on that. I mean, an eight-day handwound is pretty special. And I guess, if it is somebody else's credit card, maybe that's the route to go, but I don't know, that blue one just really speaks to me. And I, okay, somebody else's credit card, I'll probably go with your pick, which is the Vacheron as well. I just think it truly got me scheming. Like, what can I sell? Can I sell a couple Land Rovers and my whole watch collection and...

Speaker 2:
[83:01] I'd have to sell like a house. Yeah. I kid, I kid, of course, I'd be an extremist. But yeah, look, somebody else's credit card, it's the Vacheron. But the ones that really spoke to me, Vacheron, The Monarch, and then I just really loved the idea presented by the Spring Drive, UFA diver.

Speaker 1:
[83:22] Yeah.

Speaker 2:
[83:23] I'm very excited to see where that could go. If they can give us like a very toolish version of that, we're already so close, like Titanium, excellent. And then, yeah, the Panerai stuff, just to see it in person. And look, I know that they have a market for the giant submersible with the Navy Seal and the rest of it. But for me, it's stuff like that Blue Destro and the 1733. I think if you're into a Luminar Marina these days, that's about where the price point is, maybe a little bit less. And I don't know, it's hard to feel really special. But the $10,000, which is kind of a sad statement, to a certain extent, because there's a couple watches that are like the go-tos. If you're spending 10, you're probably considering a sub. You're probably considering a, maybe you can save a grand or two and go with a Seamaster and still get a really good watch and that sort of thing. And this just feels different. And sure, maybe Panerai wasn't in the best phase of time to link up with the preference for smaller and smaller watches. But while I like a small watch, and I genuinely prefer a smaller watch with something like the Panerai's, like I said, they're big, but they don't feel like balloonish or like they took an idea and just upsized it. It's kind of like that's the right... The 44 feels like the size that it is. I would love to see an expression of a Marina at 41, just to see what it would wear like. I love that 42 submersible from a few years back, because it's exciting to have that big watch made small. But if they're working to their core, you have to give them the credit of the core is that 44 and 47. I think that they put out some pretty solid product into that space. Not going to be for everybody, but they never were. I don't think that's their goal. I think of the two, I think it's more money, but I think you get more for your money with the 1733, the Brunetto Steel, Giorny, 8-day. Both really cool things. I think some pretty solid watches, Ben and Oris, holding it down at the $2,000 to $3,000 price point. I'm pumped to see, I've been so busy, I haven't like dialed in on all the chats in Slack. So I'm pumped to see where people kind of landed, how kind of price fatigued everybody is, that sort of thing. Because man, there were some big numbers at the show this year, right? I mean, a largely steeled Daytona for $60,000. That also I don't think you can buy necessarily. I think it'll be a tough one to get. So I think there is product here to kind of celebrate in some ways, whether it's in my price point or not. Like, you know, we had that conversation. And I'd love to feel like I could actually zone in on what I'm trying to share when I say that like it's important to have the pricing. And if you're absolutely the immediate buyer, the pricing matters. But as an enthusiast, I just kind of enjoy things. And the pricing becomes kind of separate. And maybe that's like a perspective you have if you work in the industry and you want other people to be excited about watches rather than just upset about the price. But it's also there's only so much you can talk about with the price. Like the price is what it is. And maybe it will ebb and flow. Maybe if nobody buys it, the pricing will drop down. But that doesn't seem to be, you know, the last five, six years doesn't seem to paint that picture. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:
[86:35] Yeah. Well, I think to take, you know, to kind of go full circle, even the back where we started this episode when I was at the Defender Trophy, driving around the Defender Trophy Edition vehicle, you know, in my mind, I'm like, this thing is pretty great. It exceeds my expectations. I've got a new perspective on this. I would love one of these. How could I make something like this happen? In the end, I can't, you know, these are $100,000 luxury vehicles that are absolutely gorgeous, but I can appreciate it without owning it. And I think it's a bit like, you know, Watches and Wonders, like you go, you try on that Vacheron. In a way, Watches and Wonders is kind of like visiting a museum in which you can actually touch and strap the stuff on, which is a nice privilege. And you can appreciate it as art and as craft, and I think there was a lot of good stuff.

Speaker 2:
[87:26] Yeah, yeah. No, I don't disagree. And for sure, I would have, it would be easier for me to spend a certain amount of, a lot more on a watch than on a car, just because like there's a good chance the watch will hold that, not always, but will hold that value more strongly than an SUV that I'd like to go bang around at the cottage in, that sort of thing. But yeah, the Defenders are super impressive vehicles. It's just, they're much more luxury coded than they used to be. I don't think they lost capability. They just kind of changed their culture code, if that makes sense, right? But yeah, good stuff nonetheless. Look, that's an hour and 30-ish. We've still got final notes to get into, and it looks like yours is a good one, and I'm very excited about mine. So any other final thoughts on the Watches and Wonders before we dive into final notes? Do you wish that you had been there to borrow the term? Do you wish that you had been in the Scrum?

Speaker 1:
[88:15] I do have a little twinge of missing it from time to time, but I was having my own fun this week, and I watched from afar, and some of the miles you put on your shoes and the amount of coffee you drink, and I used to get sick every year after getting home from just being dehydrated and shaking a lot of hands and whatever. So no, I think having done it for a number of years, I don't miss it. That said, come around next year. Who knows, you might find me in Geneva again. We'll see.

Speaker 2:
[88:43] Hey, if you're in the position to go every now and then, that's pretty sweet for sure. And yeah, it's a big silly lift for a job that otherwise barely ever feels like a real job. And it's very busy, and there's a lot of expectations, but it is just a few days, and you just kind of jump through it. And I genuinely just can't tell you how excited I am for Vancouver and now for Chicago, because we must have had a... I'll leave this on the show, why not? But you and I must have had some sort of communications. We're normally pretty good at this, but I swore that you were like, I didn't know about Chicago this year, and it's very close to some stuff in my family that it's difficult to travel. And then we were talking, and you're like, oh no, I thought we were going.

Speaker 1:
[89:23] And I was like, oh, that's great. Okay, cool, we'll make it happen.

Speaker 2:
[89:26] Yeah, so I think that could be super fun. We're still working on, like I said, what the hangout kind of scenario will be, but the goal would be like to go back to what we did a couple years ago with a beer and pizza sort of zone where people can sit around and chat watches in a nice casual setting. That will be the one to shoot for. And you and I will get our now not quite annual sushi dinner in. And it's a great time to see some buddies as well. So this is a nice time of year. I would love to say that it's starting to feel like spring here, but it is definitely below zero in Toronto today, which feels really unfair. It would be really quite nice the last couple of days in Geneva. What a beautiful place to be when it's like 20-ish Celsius out. But yeah, why don't we dive into some final notes and put a bow on one of the longer episodes of the year? You want to go first or should I?

Speaker 1:
[90:16] Sure, I'll jump in. Kind of piggybacking on one of our last brands we talked about, Panerai. This is Panerai adjacent because it involves someone I admire, Mike Horn, Panerai ambassador. He has been doing these kind of, I guess he's sort of, the guy's, I believe he's like 60 years old. He's still adventuring. He's still out there exploring. But I think he's in this phase of life where he's sort of revisiting his past. And now he's got some grown daughters that he wants to include and take along and kind of revisit some of his past adventures. And in this case, it's a YouTube video called Surviving in the Amazon with My Daughter. And it's actually a little over an hour long. It's an hour and seven minutes, so this isn't just one of these 15 minutes.

Speaker 2:
[90:59] It's an hour and seven minutes long. This is awesome.

Speaker 1:
[91:01] Yeah. And so he takes his grown daughter, Jessica, back to the Amazon. Now, if you remember 30 years ago, Mike Horn did this wild expedition. It was one of his first ones where he swam the entire length of the Amazon, much of it using like a, I don't know what you call it, a boogie board. Sounds like I'm selling it short, but think of it like a boogie board or kind of a, whatever they call these things, and like a dry bag, and basically just swam the entire length of the Amazon from its source to its mouth. He didn't do that this time around, but he took his daughter there. They sailed there in his sailboat, Pengaya, and then tromped and canoed and hiked and camped in the Amazon. He exposed his daughter to what he remembered about being there 30 years ago, and all of the humidity and insects and difficult conditions, and it's really quite good. I think it's a very humanizing one. It shows Mike Horn and a softer side of him, which is pretty cool. I talked about some of the father-son connections in Defender Trophy, and of course, your Clipperton episode is in the final four for the top TGN episodes. And it makes me think, I could see you revisiting Clipperton one day with one of your daughters or something like that. It's kind of neat to see that handing down or introducing the next generation to something cool that he's done. Yeah, it's really, it's a neat, neat film. And I think it's part of a series. I didn't get in too deep here, but he's kind of got this, I follow him on Instagram, as well as his daughters, Annika and Jessica. And he's been including them on a number of these adventures. And I think he took his other daughter on a similar trip to Greenland with him.

Speaker 2:
[92:46] Looks like it's called the What's Left Expedition.

Speaker 1:
[92:48] What's Left Expedition, yeah. So, yeah, this one was particularly good. And strangely enough, he wasn't wearing a panorai in this. He's wearing like a garment, which is kind of who knows why, but whatever. Was he at Watches and Wonders?

Speaker 2:
[93:02] Yeah, he was there. He gave a talk, actually just before I gave a talk with Andy and Tim at the auditorium. And I think I've met him once at an event years and years ago, and I was running around that morning doing a couple other things and then got back to the show. I went to Chronopolis, which is like now another show in the city. And that's like somebody took the Toronto show or the Vancouver show and kind of in its first year, it's a little smaller, but really social, really fun. Saw a handful of people there, Sarah and Natalia Wen and Awake and Danison and that sort of thing. So we were doing that. And by the time I got back, I realized I had missed Mike sitting down to talk about some stuff. And then, yeah, so that's a treat. And he's got to be in our, like the top few for a guest on the show.

Speaker 1:
[93:53] Yeah, I'd love to get him on. Yeah. Yeah, if anyone out there-

Speaker 2:
[93:57] We have to reach out to our friends at Panera.

Speaker 1:
[93:59] I'm sure we can do that.

Speaker 2:
[93:59] See if they can share an email.

Speaker 1:
[94:01] I bet you've got some connections. Yeah, let's make that happen.

Speaker 2:
[94:04] Yeah, we can figure that out. That could be very fun and it would be an interesting- We'd be on a bit of a run given next week's episode.

Speaker 1:
[94:11] That's true.

Speaker 2:
[94:13] It would be kind of fun as far as a cool thing. So yeah, shout out to Mike. This looks great. I'm going to watch this with my daughters. I was not subscribed to his YouTube channel, so big hole in my subscription settings there. But this looks awesome and yeah, I think my daughters would enjoy this very much. And look at this, it looks like this is just his channel and he's putting on an hour and seven minute long movie.

Speaker 1:
[94:33] Yeah, yeah. Good for him.

Speaker 2:
[94:35] Man, that's awesome. And he's already got a ton of comments and he's been watched almost half a million times in three weeks. That's fantastic. That's so nice. All right. Mine is also a YouTube video. Some of you can probably guess what I'm talking about here. And this is the absolutely hilarious, beautifully shot and really, really excellent example of what makes daughter house so good. And that's their recent video with the Porsche 911 reimagined by Singer DLS, which is kind of the most expensive, most hardcore version up until, I guess, the DLS Turbo recently to have come out. This is a car that I couldn't believe some of the numbers and specs when it first hit the market a couple of years ago. They were well over a million dollars. I think they're pushing like $4 million now for a DLS if you were able to get one. But goodness sakes, is this video good? Obviously, Thomas is a buddy, and I wrote him immediately. Shout out to James. Shout out to the entire team. It's such a good video about such a special car that I will never drive, that I will never get to own, that I've walked past at the Quail. Yes, it is just a resto mod, but take all of that, all of what Singer does, and just crank it up to, I don't know, 30 instead of 10. It's incredibly lightweight. It has an immensely special motor. This spec is very wild, and obviously you can spec whatever you want. It's essentially a bespoke car. This is throttle house, really. This is like a massive flex. They always do a great job. This opens with a truly fantastic skit at the top of it. I think both Thomas and James have some time in the car, and then they're together. There's a bit that I still don't know is a joke or not, involving somebody getting stuck in the car that's quite funny. I absolutely love this. I've watched it two or three times. I'm fascinated by this level of execution on a Restomod, because it's inconceivable from its starting point as a 911 from the 80s or 90s or whatever to now see this. This is starting with a Cessna 72, a great reliable plane that brought a lot of people to a certain type of flying and going to a Learjet or something like that, and largely in the same scope. It's just such a crazy car. So, highly recommend this video. Shout out to the Farrar House team. Just a great job. And I love the very first comment on there is, oh yeah, the Grand Tour is gonna be great with these guys. And I couldn't possibly agree more. So, a delight and highly recommend.

Speaker 1:
[97:12] Yeah, this looks great. Gotta watch this one. Yeah, cool. By the way, did you see Singer, the watch side of their business last week? Were they there anywhere in Geneva?

Speaker 2:
[97:22] They were probably there. I didn't see them. I didn't get a chance.

Speaker 1:
[97:26] Yeah, it's such a weird overlap, but they're wild watches, you know, the dive track and then just some of the beautiful chronographs and then the cars. So, cool synergy there. Good stuff. Yeah, quite the episode here. We're coming up on hour and 45 now, and I don't think people are gonna begrudge us that. It's always fun to do the Megasode.

Speaker 2:
[97:47] Hopefully not. A little longer than last year's episode. Not as long as some of the Baselworld episodes where they were like 20, 30 brands that kind of hit our price point a little harder. But yeah, let us know what we missed. Happy to continue the conversation, and I'm thrilled to see anyone who makes it out to Vancouver. Please say hi. I'll try and wear my blue hat around the show to make it a little bit easier to spot me amongst what I assume will be quite a busy crowd. But yeah, solid episode. One I always kind of look forward to recording, less so to edit. And yeah, as always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, or even consider supporting the show directly for as little as $5 a month. Maybe even grab yourself a new TGN signed NATO along the way. Please visit thegreynato.com. Music thrown is Siesta by Jazz Art via the free music archive.

Speaker 1:
[98:33] And we leave you with this quote from Andre Morois, who said, Novelty, the most potent of all attractions, is also the most perishable.