transcript
Speaker 1:
[00:09] Okay, well, hello, everyone. Yeah, let's just get into it. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Go ahead, introduce yourself.
Speaker 2:
[00:18] My name is Van.
Speaker 1:
[00:19] Yeah, Van Lathan, Van Lathan. We're so excited to be here. We're from Higher Learning, if you don't know. And we're thrilled to be hosting this live conversation tonight. So thank you so much for having us. We're ready to dive into this conversation with Emmy Award winner, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II.
Speaker 3:
[00:36] Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. What's up, y'all?
Speaker 1:
[00:43] And Steven Caple Jr. Give him a round of applause as well. So this is obviously a highly anticipated Netflix action thriller series, Man on Fire. We talked to you a second before, but give it up again for how fantastic this first episode was that you guys got to screen. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:
[01:05] It is based on AJ Quinnell's iconic book series. Seven episode drama follows John Creasy, a character that we know, that we're getting reacquainted with through Yahya's portrayal. A former Special Forces mercenary plagued by intense PTSD, seeking a path to redemption, soon finds himself back in the fire, fighting harder, more intensely, and with more passion than ever before to protect those he loves. I like it when a brother has to get re-activated, remind himself who he is. That's what happens, and that's the whole thing about the show, right?
Speaker 3:
[01:41] Yeah, in a lot of ways it is. It's interesting to hear this being talked about as an action, because it is, it really is. But Creasy's, at least my journey through Creasy, it was so much about the heart, about the pain, about rebuilding himself internally. And I really try to shape it so that his path to redemption, the action was just really a manifestation of what he was working through on the inside. You know what I mean? One of my favorite scenes to shoot and to watch is the scene, this drunk fight that we have in episode one, this dude is like, man, I had been through something, I drove my car into this pillar, that didn't work. You know, my boy set me up with a job that was supposed to be a little low lift job and next thing you know, choking me out and you know, like what's going on? And so he chooses to go out and to get drunk and to get into a fight. You know, when they showed up to rob him, it's like, this is exactly what I've been looking for. You know what I mean? Like, I need to feel something. And it's through that sort of experience of being hit, you know what I mean? Of being attacked, that he reminds himself. I remember, you know, watching him up there. I was watching Creasy when he had his back against the wall. And he was like, yeah, yeah, okay, not yet, not yet. Boom, ah, that's the one I've been looking for. Now I'm awake. You know what I'm saying? There's something very sort of a, is it masochistic, I think, about that a little bit. And so that is his path to redemption. Unfortunately, I think for Creasy is through the pain.
Speaker 1:
[03:32] I think that's what's so great about it. I love the way you're talking about it, because as an audience, we desire to know more. Like I want to understand where it's all coming from. I know we see certain things as we're watching this first episode, but we know there's so much more to it. And Steven, I'll bring you in on this, because you talked about the heart. You're right, there's so much more of that. But can you talk a little bit about the heart of this version of Man on Fire and how we see that evolve through the season without giving anything away?
Speaker 4:
[04:00] Yeah, no, great question. I mean, you said it, but we keep circling around the word redemption, but I think a big word we were using, and Kyle, the showrunner here as well, who's here tonight, was resurrection. You know, it was like, you guys seen the opening, he was trying to take his own life. So there was like an extreme level of trauma that he was sort of unraveling, so to speak. So to track somebody where they've given up on life, you're like, well, how do you unpack that? How do you go on this journey? And so for us, connecting that trauma to the genre components, which is like, it's an action thriller, has suspense to it. Now you got this dude going on this journey, and you're like, is this helping him? Is this healing him? Or is this going the opposite direction? So every scene we had to ask ourselves I'm like, this might be the opposite direction. He might say he'd need this, but it's coming off as like some addiction, if you will. And overall, I feel like with the franchise of Man on Fire, the aura of it, it's always about some sort of level of redemption, but it's always a level of addiction or something like that, which I think makes this very unique and specific because we sort of stepped outside that box a little bit and was like, he's a hero, but he's not painting like the polished ones you're used to seeing on television.
Speaker 5:
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Speaker 6:
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Speaker 2:
[06:37] Yeah. The interesting thing to me is like, back in the day, I was going through my own thing. I remember calling my dad and my dad asked me, he was like, tell me what you did today. I told him all the stuff that he did, that I did. And he goes, your whole day, he's like, you didn't do anything for anybody else. He's like, so you're ruminating because you're centered on exactly who you are throughout the whole day. He's like, get out and go do something for someone else. And the thing, what he was trying to tell me is a lot of times we're looking to redeem ourselves. And the way that you do that is through protecting or doing for someone else. And the common thread in this character is he's at his lowest to the point to where he's almost trying to end himself, but when he finds purpose in somebody else, that brings him back to life.
Speaker 3:
[07:22] Interestingly enough, at the same time, I think the viewers will begin to see that. That is one of Creasy's crutches, so to speak, is service for others.
Speaker 2:
[07:36] Say more, what you mean?
Speaker 3:
[07:37] Because he has this thing where there was a scene earlier that actually didn't make it into the final cut of Before Creasy Drives Into That Car. There was an older lady who needed her tire changed. And so he's in there and he's like trying to start the car because I'm about to drive into this pillar and a woman knocks on the door, what's up? And she needs help because, well, she doesn't knock, but he sees a woman out of the rear view mirror and she needs help because she has a flat tire. He gets out, charming as ever, helps her change her tire. She tries to give him a couple bucks. No thanks, you know, you have a good day. He gets back in a car, right back to business and drives into a fucking wall. You know what I'm saying? So, and throughout the series, he'll put his self on the line, he'll put his body on the line and his life on the line to help someone else. But as soon as someone else says, hey, let me help you, that's, nah, that's too much.
Speaker 2:
[08:38] So that's his journey. His journey is like, it's the inverse of that is helping someone, but also opening up to them enough to let them...
Speaker 3:
[08:46] To be able to receive love. You know, we see him lose some of his comrades at the very top of the episode. And I have to, as the actor, imagine that these are people who he deeply cared about, who he was responsible for, you know? So now, not only is he dealing with the hurt, but he's also dealing with the shame and the guilt of being responsible for all of these lives lost. So it's like, well, now we have a character that's completely isolated himself from affection, from being, from having to feel anything. You know, I care about you too much, you got to stay over there because if something happened to you, then I'm not going to be able to take that. You know what I mean? So he's actually going on a journey where he's trying to rebuild himself first before he can receive love, but it don't work like that. You sort of learn to receive it by breaking down the thing that is stopping you from being able to accept that. And that is what we'll see that Creasy's journey is. That's a sick cycle, man.
Speaker 4:
[09:52] Yeah. And there's other players to that point. Like you guys have met Po on the screen, you met Alicia Braga, legendary actress, played in City of God and stuff like that, playing Malaria here. He has that same connection with Brazil too, which I think that makes it really unique and special. Like there's other players that get involved in helping this who try to redeem themselves, so to speak, and find his way again, which I think is pretty unique for this.
Speaker 1:
[10:15] I love it when you give me a segue. You said redeem. First off, I think John Creasy is a Taurus. I don't know if you're into astrological science, but I was captivated by what you were saying. I was like, man, I'm a Taurus. And I was like, man.
Speaker 2:
[10:29] By the way, it's Rachel's birthday.
Speaker 1:
[10:30] I think he's a Taurus. Happy birthday. Thank you. But it's not about me. It's about Man on Fire. But thank you so much. Thank you so much. But you said redeem, and, you know, at its core, Man on Fire, you already talked about protection, but it really is about redemption when it comes to John Creasy. How does this series either deepen, and this is for either one of you, or reinterpret those themes, or maybe even bring something new to the table that the audience hasn't seen yet?
Speaker 3:
[10:58] I think it gives you a, hopefully it gives you a sort of entertaining perspective on redemption. The way that I like to think about Creasy is that he's a dangerous man. We see that he has skills in the top of the episode, and we know, we learn a little bit about his resume, so he's a dangerous man. One of the things that I've been sort of ruminating on about Creasy is that, and about dangerous men, is that when you take a dangerous man, and when a dangerous man goes to sleep, if he has enemies, that's the best place for him to be, is asleep, you know, and forgetting who he is. Because if he ever wakes up and decides to go back to work, not only is he still dangerous, but now he's making up for lost time. And that is, it's pretty exciting to watch a redemption arc take place that way, through a character who, as we go further into the story, he's finding more of himself, but he's also finding more of his rhythm and his tools, and he's getting into his bag, you know, his toolbox. But he's still got to do the internal work at the same time. So there's sort of those two engines where he's redeeming himself and he's rebuilding himself, his former physical self, but also, you know, walking out, going out on the limb to do that internal work to sort of, you know, redeem what's on the inside as well. Everybody else has already forgiven him, you know what I mean? And anybody else who would have had a grudge, they've already forgiven him. It's about, you know, it's his job to eventually forgive himself, you know.
Speaker 2:
[12:53] So, in the first one, you're watching and you're beating a lot of people up.
Speaker 3:
[12:59] He's beating a lot of people up.
Speaker 2:
[13:00] Yeah, he's beating a lot of people up. It's not true. Separated, right there. I caught that. When you're watching yourself and you're beating people up, do you ever go, I'm the man right now.
Speaker 3:
[13:16] No, I don't be seeing myself, man. I'll be like, man, Creasy doing this, man, man.
Speaker 2:
[13:22] You don't see yourself, you see Creasy?
Speaker 3:
[13:24] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[13:25] Wow.
Speaker 3:
[13:25] Because I'm fortunate enough to be able to be inside of his head. So I know what that boy thinking. I was like, oh, you know. Hopefully, if I did my job well enough that you all know what that boy thinking too. But no, I don't do that.
Speaker 2:
[13:47] So you don't watch the action because I box, right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:
[13:52] Okay.
Speaker 2:
[13:53] So every once in a while, I'm in the ring. I'm doing my thing.
Speaker 1:
[14:01] I need to understand, he was trying to get here. He wanted everybody to know this story.
Speaker 3:
[14:06] You act too, right?
Speaker 2:
[14:07] I box, I act, I do a little bit of it all. And I'm in the ring and I'm boxing. I look at the trainer and I be like, yo man, take me. And then when I look back at myself, I go, you fat. So I was wondering if you ever, so you never, you never look at yourself, Dr. Manhattan, Manta Ray, Wonder Man, Creasy, or like the Get Down, you never looked at yourself on the screen or what? You know, tonight I'm that nigger. Never?
Speaker 3:
[14:41] No, I wouldn't, that wouldn't be healthy for me to do because I done played some cool characters and stuff.
Speaker 2:
[14:47] That's why I'm trying to get you to do this, brother. You trying to?
Speaker 3:
[14:50] Oh, okay. No, I be looking, I be like, man, that's a cold boy right there. That's a cold boy. And then people be like, that's you. I be like, oh, okay, my bad, my bad, my bad, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:
[15:02] Yes, because you're dedicated to the craft. But to piggyback on what Van is saying, and we'll help him out, talk about maybe some of the training that you do, you know, to reflect that on screen, to be able to do all of that. And maybe Van can take that home and apply it. God damn.
Speaker 3:
[15:21] You know, the cool part about this.
Speaker 2:
[15:22] Did you pick up the undertones there?
Speaker 3:
[15:24] I did.
Speaker 1:
[15:25] Oh, there was no undertones.
Speaker 3:
[15:26] I like the way you just moved on.
Speaker 1:
[15:27] Yeah, maybe Van can get it.
Speaker 2:
[15:29] I can call me fat. You can't say that.
Speaker 3:
[15:33] I was going to say the cool part about this. Van, I ain't had no diet or nothing like that, man. I ain't had to do none of that stuff because Creasy was in bad shape. You know, he was in terrible shape.
Speaker 1:
[15:44] Creasy, he was terrible.
Speaker 3:
[15:47] But he was in bad. He was in a bad way. He was in a bad way. He's like genetically gifted, but he is still in a bad way. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:
[16:01] But he still was doing his thing. Can you talk about your version of John Creasy, though? Like, we've seen him before, but you have your whole different spin on it. Can you talk about how you wanted to reinterpret that and bring him to this series?
Speaker 3:
[16:15] Yeah, well, what I can sort of hear you, you know, talking a bit about and what people are going to talk about is about that huge ghost that is, you know, hovering around this conversation, that fantastic ghost and that shadow cast by Denzel Washington, you know what I mean, and that fantastic performance. And when this came across my desk, then the first thing I said was like, okay, why? Why would I do this? Why should I do this? Why should I do this? You know what I mean? The first thing, honestly, the first thing even before I read the pages was, I saw this guy's name attached to it, Steven Caple, you know, and I really, really admire his work. We had talked about a film that we're going to eventually do a couple of years before this came across my desk. And, you know, I thought that this would be a really good opportunity to build on our working relationship, you know, so I really want to get into the sandbox with Steven. I thought Kyle wrote an amazing script and he sort of built out a fantastic web, you know, for the actors to follow. Then I start turning the pages, right? So now I'm getting sort of directly to your question. I start turning the pages and reading and seeing what was in there. Then we got to episode two and at the end of episode two, there's an interrogation scene about six pages and it was all in Spanish. And I was like, yo, I think that's kind of, that's kind of cool. So, you know, I'm a sort of leaning forward because when I was laying in bed reading that script and I'm saying these Spanish words, como te da cuenta cuando alguien ha visto muchas peliculas, and I was just like, you know, it was kind of sexy to me. I was like, you know, so it was, it was like, it was like, it was just like, it was, it was like, it was appealing. There was many, many different reasons, right? There were many different reasons. But ultimately, I knew that if I did say yes, if I did say yes, then my job would be to find what I wanted to do and what was interesting to me about it, because it doesn't matter what anybody else did. If I stepped into the role of John Creasy, which I like to look at like a hamlet, you know, it's an iconic role. It's an iconic character, you know, the character of John Creasy that was played by this actor, by this actor. Now, I'm the actor that's playing the character of John Creasy. What do I want to do? And the thing that I saw that was an interesting opportunity was to say, what if I played this exactly like it was actually happening? Like I was truly, truly, truly in that circumstance. So I didn't care for my guy to be cool. I didn't care for him to be like cool at all. He can tell you stories like, I'm like, yeah, bro, he's like that. He's not cool at all. I don't want to be him. But I do want to know what it's like to be him. So this is really an exploration in the reality of what it might be like to lose all your guys, to become hooked on alcohol as a way to cope with the stress of your life, to come face to face with suicide, and then to lose your best friend, the only person who understood you and really stuck up for you, and then to be left with that man's daughter and to be responsible for her when you can't even take care of your own damn self.
Speaker 2:
[20:11] Yeah, word up.
Speaker 3:
[20:12] And then you walk forward. So that's the journey that I'm about to take this, that you all are going to watch me take this character on. And that kept me, that kept my hands full.
Speaker 2:
[20:25] I want to pick up on something you said and then ask a question for Steven. Number one, I hope everyone heard the intentionality in which he spoke about his own career and his working relationship with Steven. He goes, we have something that I know that we're going to do, something I want to do. I want to get connected with him now, get in the sandbox with him now. I think a lot of young actors, young creators sometimes don't think about the experience for the experience, for the thing. And obviously we're seeing with like with Mike and Ryan, how that gets started in Fruitvale. And then we're all the way to the point now to where these brothers are making history together every time they do something. It's very important to think that intentionally about your career. He talked about, Yahya talked about why he wanted to take on this particular role. Scott Glenn had played it, Denzel Washington had played it. What about this particular story for you made you say, okay, in this world that we live in now, let's do Man on Fire?
Speaker 4:
[21:24] Honestly, it was the first like five pages. I mean, I did read episode two, 102, and it does get much bigger and exciting. It has an engine to it and he gets to speak Spanish and do his thing. But ultimately, the first five pages, when it pulled me in, originally, we didn't have that fight sequence at the top. It just walk with a dude with a pillowcase on and he took off, took off the pillowcase and was looking dead towards, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Like, who the hell is this guy? And then he literally runs into a car, I mean, to the wall. And personally, I lost a dear friend of mine to his life. And so it hit on a different level. And then as a filmmaker, when I'm looking at my projects, you know, I'm not afraid of rebranding, reimagining sort of big franchises at all. But I'm always looking at what's that like core centerpiece that relates to people, and it could drive you and pull you in. And off the rip, I knew there was something there. I did think of Yahya at a certain point. I'm like, damn, Yahya would be interesting, but I don't know if he wants to do television again, right, TV. And then ultimately it just came down to like, what can I do with the franchise visually? And it felt like all the components in my career, like I started off with an indie film called The Land, that probably no one's seen, but it was a very small. We saw it. Thank you. Small, low-budget film, and like it was a drama. You know, it wasn't much action in it. It was a drama. And then you go on and you do things like Transformers and you learn how to work with visual effects. And I look at Man on Fire, I'm like, oh, this is an opportunity to cleanse the palette, to take everything I've learned in those different stages and apply it here, and then work with a talented, I can't just say actor because actors, Poe, played by Billy Boulay also steps up, the first time and anything really, and that excites me, we'll get to work with a child actor, put these pieces together. So that's what drew me to the project. And then to your point, the opportunity to present, you got the script, but you also got a text message and call for me of like, this is what I'm working on. This would be great because the project we do have is something special and it's really deep and I'm excited.
Speaker 2:
[23:25] So about the project you guys do have, tell us everything about it right now, what you're doing, when it's going to come out, who's going to buy it, it will just tell us everything. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:
[23:37] Take it away.
Speaker 4:
[23:38] You got the face. Go ahead, man. You see the ooze in us? I can't give you much on it, but it's an interesting project that takes place in the near future. It's based on technology and basically human behavior dealing with technology and we explore world in Los Angeles, where police don't exist and we police ourselves on a block.
Speaker 2:
[24:01] I like that world.
Speaker 4:
[24:03] Oh, all right. Tune in. Can't tell you the release date. Something that I've been working on for years. This is a baby of mine. Yahya, I've seen different iterations of the script. I've made it bigger. I've made it smaller trying to make it work. But the right team will come together to make this project because it is a really great subject matter and explores a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:
[24:25] I mean, you just heard the reaction right now from the audience. We're all tapped in. We want to hear more. I want to go back to some of the themes that we talked about protection. We talked about redemption. But we've talked a little bit about it, but I want to be direct because it's just such a conversation that we're having right now. Good and bad, but it's mental health. That's such a key part of the story that you're telling here. I just want to know, and I guess, Steven, I'll ask you this question. What responsibility do you feel that storytellers have when it comes to portraying trauma or even mental health struggles?
Speaker 4:
[25:00] A huge one. I know we're in a genre space. We get to laugh and talk about somebody getting to look like a star and beat up individuals. But ultimately, by no means, when you watch this series, it's not the cure for trauma. There's so many layers to it. I think for us, it's like exploring the triggers, or should I say the stressors caused by trauma, and every sort of representation, like mentally, physically, he's behind, emotionally, he's behind. He is numb in trying to get him back into the flow of it through action, if you will. Again, I promise you, you'll see more of it later on in the series, especially as we build out the relationships. But ultimately, as a filmmaker, you hold a huge responsibility and light to it. I don't tread with it lightly at all. I know the business that we're in, so we're like, hey, let's popcorn, let's enjoy the movie, let's laugh, let's cry. But at the end of the day, these conversations I think help. I think honestly, talking to you guys about it, even though you guys are super dope as hell, I love your show and you have brought in professional specialists to talk about this topic. But ultimately, I think us putting it out there to the universe to be talked about on this scale matters the most. So I feel like if we can have a hand in that, then great. But by no means don't watch this and be like, oh, this is the answer. No, it's not.
Speaker 5:
[26:30] It's just a little bit of a bit of a.
Speaker 4:
[26:34] Let's have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too.
Speaker 5:
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Speaker 7:
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Speaker 5:
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Speaker 2:
[27:57] You're portraying a character, someone that's dealing with these deep issues that it's oftentimes difficult for us to talk about.
Speaker 3:
[28:03] Yeah.
Speaker 2:
[28:05] What are you thinking in trying to channel what that character is going through emotionally?
Speaker 3:
[28:08] I'm trying to understand why they're doing what they're doing. Creasy doesn't, he knows that he has trauma, but what's my job, right? My job is to understand why is he drinking and to humanize it, right? Why is he drinking like this? Oh, because whatever that is, right? Whatever that ends up being, it makes life, it makes what I'm dealing with just a little bit easier. You know what I'm saying? It just takes the edge off of what it is that I'm working through. And then now that once I take the edge off, now, you know, I can just think a little bit more and I can remember when things were good. And also, I may have an emotional breakthrough to help me remember, help me to see a way out, or I may get a little bit of courage that helps me to feel like my old self again. And now that I feel like my old self again, I'm back and I feel good. But the next test comes when I try to be my old self again without the drink. And then all of a sudden, it's like, man, well, let me just take one more sip. While I get myself back in shape, you do that long enough, now I've got a whole full-fledged drinking problem. You see what I'm saying? And now I'm just trapped in trying to get myself out. And I'm ashamed to tell anybody the truth because everybody look at me and they think that I'm so strong. So now I've got a secret, while at the same time going outside and helping other people and being strong for other people. And because I'm also dependent on this, then now I am isolating myself from the friends and people who love me. I'm lying now and telling people that I'm okay. That's what it looks like. That's the beginning. Actually, that's not even the beginning. Now I'm deep in there. You know what I'm saying? I'm deep in there, but I'm still telling myself that everything is okay. That is an incredibly human experience. Trauma is at the root of it, right? But that story that I just told, that I just put myself, the exercise that I just put myself through, is an incredibly human experience and it deserves understanding and compassion. That was my way into the portrayal of everything that we'll see Creasy go through, was to understand, was to first love him. And then because I love him, I can understand what a drink is to him. I can understand what it is to pass out in the middle of a fight. Because I'm really not supposed to be here. And I'm reminded that the last time I was in a situation like this, people died. And now I'm doing it, but I don't have my drink on me, and it's too much pressure. And the pressure makes my heart beat. The heartbeat makes me calm, makes me lose focus. And now that I'm losing focus, I'm vulnerable. And now I'm fucking on the floor again. And now when I wake up, I'm embarrassed. And I need a fucking drink, because now I just need to take the edge off, and I'm back in the fucking cycle again.
Speaker 1:
[31:47] Wow. I just feel like I went on the cycle. Did you not?
Speaker 3:
[31:50] Yeah, but all of that journey is about never trying, never trying to portray something. It's about me allowing the director to say action, trusting the camera when it's on, and then me going on that exploration of how the camera is rolling, and seeing what we get.
Speaker 1:
[32:12] Wow. And that's why it's so great. I guess the last question I will ask you guys, because there's so much more we're going to let everybody go. As we move forward, and they're going to watch the rest of the episodes, because episode one ends in such a big way and keeps everybody on their seat. What's the one episode that you feel like everybody needs to watch twice?
Speaker 3:
[32:35] I really love episode six. I really, really, really like episode six. It's just different. I mean, all of them are stand alone episodes, but there's a certain event in episode six where I think it's for the first time, I think I experience and I see Creasy embracing like, you know what? I'm messed up. I'm messed up. And I've been trying to do things the right way in all of this. Pass me that drink right there. Okay, let me crack this open. All right, and let's go to work. You know what I'm saying? And that was the thing that he did in episode six for just about the entirety of the episode. I thought it was, I thought that was real cool.
Speaker 4:
[33:21] I would say too, but it's most of the trailer. So you checked it out. I directed. I think four and five, I'm going to say five. We started tapping to Brazil a lot. You guys are going to see like us tapping into the culture, the life there using Brazilian actors. Somewhere in the house today, they flew out here.
Speaker 3:
[33:40] Please give them a round of applause.
Speaker 4:
[33:41] Speaking Portuguese, like it's real. So I'm going to say that because visually we, I don't know what show you're going to get that on. Like we're literally in Rosiniada, Favelas, the hood, hood, getting the green light to shoot in neighborhoods. And it was a really tough shoot. And when I saw it on screen, it wasn't even my episode, but watching it on screen, like wow, this is beautiful. Like we get to highlight this in a different way and see how they interact with Creasy. So I'm going to go with five.
Speaker 2:
[34:08] You know, shout out to Brazil. I was there in 2000. I'll never forget it. Y'all know what I'm talking about. All right. You guys give it up. Steven Caple.
Speaker 3:
[34:21] Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2:
[34:22] I appreciate it. Hope you guys continue to watch the show on Netflix. Appreciate y'all.