transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] Susan, I don't know about you, but I grind my teeth. And during the podcast season, when things start to get really intense, the grinding gets worse. So bad that I've actually cracked a tooth before. So the last time I was at the dentist, he told me I should get a mouth guard. But then he told me how much it would cost, and I almost fell right out of the chair.

Speaker 2:
[00:23] You about fell out?

Speaker 1:
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Speaker 1:
[00:47] I could definitely use some better sleep quality.

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[00:50] You and me both.

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Speaker 1:
[01:35] And helping us sleep better.

Speaker 2:
[01:43] Mom, can you tell me a story? Sure.

Speaker 3:
[01:45] Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car.

Speaker 2:
[01:47] Was she brave?

Speaker 4:
[01:48] She was tired, mostly.

Speaker 3:
[01:50] But she went to carvana.com and found a great car at a great price.

Speaker 5:
[01:53] No secret treasure map required. Did you have to find a dragon?

Speaker 1:
[01:56] Nope, she bought it 100% online, from her bed, actually.

Speaker 4:
[01:59] Was it scary?

Speaker 3:
[02:01] Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be.

Speaker 5:
[02:03] Did the car have a sunroof?

Speaker 3:
[02:05] It did, actually.

Speaker 1:
[02:06] Okay, good story.

Speaker 3:
[02:07] Car buying you'll want to tell stories about.

Speaker 2:
[02:09] Buy your car today on Caravana.

Speaker 3:
[02:12] Delivery fees may apply.

Speaker 2:
[02:17] Hi everyone, Susan here. Season 3 is over for now, but we're back this week with a special sidebar. You may remember in episode 11, when we covered Scott's resenancing hearing, that a group of Michigan exonerees showed up in support of him. It turned out that one of the exonerees, LaVone Hill, had actually known Scott in prison. Jacinda caught up with LaVone Hill to hear more about his story, to find out how he was wrongfully convicted, and how he was exonerated, and what life has been like since coming home.

Speaker 1:
[02:52] I am here with LaVone Hill. Thank you so much for joining me today on Sidebar. You and I met for the first time back in September at the resentencing hearing for Scott Baldwin.

Speaker 4:
[03:04] Right.

Speaker 1:
[03:05] And before we get into that and the resentencing hearing, I was hoping you could just share with us a little bit about your story and what happened to you and where you are now.

Speaker 4:
[03:16] Right. Well, my story is I'm an exonerated myself. I was factually, which means based on the facts, I was innocent and I was actually innocent. I mean, I wasn't even there when the crime committed. So I served 22 years, six months. I was convicted of two counts of first degree murder, and two counts of felony firearm, and I was actually innocent. Not wrongfully convicted, I was actually innocent. So I was a victim of the criminal justice system. I've been home 16 months now. My release was secured with the help of the Michigan's Innocent Clinic, Dave Moran and Jenna Cobb, Malone Wood, several student attorneys and several associate attorneys. They worked hard in this hours to discover the facts, put the case together and to prove my innocence to the court. So that happened October 23rd, 2024.

Speaker 1:
[04:08] Yeah. I mean, you mentioned Dave Moran. He's amazing the work he's done over the course of his career and the number of people he's helped.

Speaker 4:
[04:17] Right. Yeah, I was actually number 44 for the Michigan's Innocent Clinic. I was the 44th victory. Yeah. Dave is a beautiful guy.

Speaker 1:
[04:24] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[04:24] He can move mountains. Yeah, he can move mountains. He's highly intelligent, very skillful, honest man, good morals, good integrity, real genuine person.

Speaker 1:
[04:35] So my understanding is in 2001, you're arrested for allegedly being involved in a double murder that happened over a dice game.

Speaker 4:
[04:45] Right.

Speaker 1:
[04:46] And you weren't even there.

Speaker 4:
[04:49] Right.

Speaker 1:
[04:50] Yeah. The podcast we're working on, you and I have talked about a little bit, this cold case team, is something we see over and over in wrongful convictions where there is an eye witness who will say something that changes the course of the investigation or who points someone out as the perpetrator when in fact it's not true.

Speaker 4:
[05:09] Right. Yeah. And so in my situation, still to this day, I don't even know if the guy that the police used to put me in prison, I don't even know if this guy was even an eyewitness to the crime or not. It was never really established. What happened to this guy, he was arrested for drug possession. He was arrested by the local narcotics team of their neighborhood down there in Detroit. And once he was in custody, there was a Detroit homicide detective, formerly Sergeant Walter Bates. He cut a deal with the guy and told the guy, and if he came in there and said that he saw me do this crime, you know, he fed him all the facts of the crime, he fed him everything to say, you know, he coerced him from day one and told him, hey, you come in here and say this, and you stand on this, you know, I'll make sure that these drug charges against you go away and I can put LaVone away. So in my situation, the witness was, you know, coerced, intimidated. He was subject to all type of misconduct, all type of abuse by the hands of the Detroit police to get him to go along with their plan to frame me, to set me up, yeah.

Speaker 1:
[06:14] And this, the eyewitness, he's the only evidence they had against you.

Speaker 4:
[06:18] Oh, without a doubt. Well, actually, only evidence. And really, he wasn't the only evidence because, like I say, at my preliminary examination, at my pre-hearing, this one witness to this crime on direct examination by the prosecutor, he said, yes, I saw LaVone do it. But at this same preliminary examination on cross-examination by my attorney, he said, no, LaVone didn't do this crime. I didn't see LaVone do this crime. He said, the prosecutor and the police are making me laugh, LaVone, and the prosecutor and the police just came to the holding cell prior to him coming out, taking a stand. He said, they had just met him in the holding cell and told him and review to him what he must say. So he told a lie and he told the truth. So he told two conflicts and stories at my preliminary examination. But at my trial, he actually came in and said he needed protection from the police, he needed an attorney because what he had to say, he knew that the police and the prosecutor would do something to him. So the judge appointed him an attorney, and this one witness actually took the stand and testified in front of the jury that I didn't do anything, that he didn't see me do anything, and I was not the man and that the police was making him lie on me.

Speaker 1:
[07:29] It's absolutely nuts. I got a quote where he says, I didn't pick LaVone Hill, Sergeant Bates picked LaVone Hill. I didn't even know his last name was Hill. I didn't even know his name was LaVone. We just called him LV. I don't know who shot who. I didn't see nobody kill nobody.

Speaker 4:
[07:49] Right. Yeah. I was convicted, like I say, no scientific evidence, no physical evidence, no statements from me. There was nothing produced at trial to even answer the question of who committed this crime, let alone prove me guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But what was able to happen was that this police officer was able to take the stand and he said that he was a law-abiding officer, that he's done no wrong on this case, and that Andre was actually lying in court, that Andre actually told him that I've done it, and that he had done no misconduct to Andre. The police officer stood on that, and I presented two alibi witnesses and I took the stand also. In their closing arguments to the jury, the prosecutor told the jury that if they believed all the testimony that was presented in court, that I was an innocent man. But not to believe all the testimony that was heard in court, to believe that the witness changed his testimony because he was scared that I would do something to him if I was convicted.

Speaker 1:
[08:54] It's crazy. When you were going through this process, from the time you were arrested, even up through your trial, Scott talked about how when he was arrested, of course he was stressed out and nervous and scared took it seriously, but there was a part of him was like, they got nothing on me. I didn't do it. I wasn't that worried. Like I felt like, you know, like it'll get worked out. It'll get worked out. How did you feel? Like at what point did you think, oh shit?

Speaker 4:
[09:21] That was my thoughts exactly. You know, this really here was my first run in with the law. This was the first time that I had ever been to the county jail. I had been arrested maybe once or twice, but I had never been in any serious crime or nothing like that. So I was very naïve to the legal system. You know, I believed in trusting the legal system to a certain extent. You know, I knew they had rogue police officers, and I knew that people commit misconduct and people commit corruption. I wasn't naïve like that, but I was totally naïve to the legal system to even think that I would be convicted. You know, the lead detective that arrested me, he said, LaVone, I know for sure you didn't do this crime. He said, but I'm not here to say if you've done this crime or not. He said, but I can go and prove in court that you didn't do this crime. He said, but my job is just to arrest you. He was the Fugitive Task Force. And he told me, he said, my job was just to arrest you, LaVone. He said, but this case is going to backfire. And he said, they know for sure you didn't do this crime. So based on the fact that I knew that I didn't do the crime, based on the fact that we just had the Fugitive Task Force tell me I didn't do this crime, and then prior to me being locked up, one of the guy's victim's family had reached out to me, and I had a meeting with the family of one of the victim's before I was even arrested. And they had told me, they're like, LaVone, we know you didn't do this crime. We support you 100 percent. Anything you need, we got your back. So when I was arrested by the Fugitive Task Force, one of the first phone calls I made was to the victim's family. And they came and visited me in the county jail. Wow. So I had no idea that I would be convicted of this crime. I'm like, hey, justice would take this course. No big deal. You're no wrong guy. The police is trying to set me up. So I went through these proceedings, like maybe five months, four months, something like that. But even through all the proceedings, when I was bonded over, my motions were denied and the judge telling me, I need to plead guilty because if she find me guilty, she give me a thousand years and all this stuff. I still believed in the system. Looking back now, it's like, hey, I guess, and I pride myself on being intelligent, but I guess I wasn't intelligent as I thought I was because I still believed in the system. When I was going through that, I'm like, justice is going to prevail. The truth, you know how you always say, the truth will set you free. So I'm saying all this stuff. And when the jury came back with the verdict of guilty, I was numb, but the whole courtroom was numb. It was just a whole numbness like, y'all found me guilty with no evidence. Like everything that happened here was, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1:
[12:07] So guilty and also a sentence of life.

Speaker 4:
[12:11] Yes, double life. Now that's a whole different situation. But yeah, even when I was sentenced to double life, I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe it. And now that I'm having this conversation with you, maybe that's how I was able to survive all those 22 years and six months. Because like I say, it takes a strong person to survive prison, but it takes a superhuman to survive prison, being an innocent man all those years without having any really serious issues, no mental breakdowns, no major setbacks. Each court I was denied in, I was filing litigation. I was right back. I was in the library studying. I was in the weight room. I never felt the effects of the wrongful conviction while I was in there. I'm not going to say I wasn't suffered, but I was never like, oh, I'm in here, I'm going to die. I was never the victim. I was like, hey, I'm getting out of here. They're like, when are you getting out? I'm getting out. Do you have a court date? No, but I'm getting out. So maybe that's why I had that mindset, because I never allowed it to affect me, never.

Speaker 1:
[13:20] I hear you say that and I'm thinking 22 years. That's a long time.

Speaker 4:
[13:26] It's a very long time. I raised my kids in prison, my grandkids, they was coming to visit me every week. It is a long time. It's a very long time because I've seen my children grow from children to adults, and I had grandchildren that was the same age and the same size that my children were. When I went in prison, I was coming to visit me, so I saw the whole shift. Yes, it was a very long time, but my mindset never allowed me to calculate the time, and my mindset never let me focus on the time, so even though now that I'm home, and I'm like, I did all those years, it doesn't, not saying I'm a superhuman, but I never.

Speaker 1:
[14:11] Right. You found a way to make it through. Some people we talk to say, in prison, you either do the time or the time does you.

Speaker 4:
[14:21] Right. I tell guys, because I deal with a lot of guys who are still in prison, I tell guys, and this is just my personal opinion, it's probably not true, but prison manifests whatever you have in you. So if, you know, and I hate to see it like that, because I know the majority of guys that go to prison, they suffer all type of mental illness, they suffer all type of stuff. So I hate to say that they were weak before. That's not what I'm conveying, but, you know, I believe that it manifests what's in you. So if you are a strong person, and you have a strong will, and you are grounded and connected, no matter what time you have to do in there, you know, I've seen people, a guy just got out, Rossy Mack just got out there 50 years, he just got out last week. Couple of months before that, a guy got out there 60 years, and you know, I walked to the yard, and these guys still get their faculties, they still strong, so.

Speaker 1:
[15:18] It helps to have a support system outside.

Speaker 4:
[15:20] The same support system that I went in with, I came out with. I was blessed not to have one death in my family.

Speaker 1:
[15:27] That's amazing, yeah.

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Speaker 1:
[17:07] I've been trying to do a little spring reset with my closet, packing up some of my winter stuff and bringing out my spring stuff, but I realized I need to freshen up my wardrobe a little bit.

Speaker 2:
[17:18] Always a great excuse to go to our favorite place for clothes, quince.com.

Speaker 1:
[17:22] I 100% agree, Susan. Have you got anything new recently?

Speaker 2:
[17:26] You know I have. My latest purchase from them was their waterproof rain trench coat, which is super adorable and super useful with this rainy spring we've been having. Jacinda, can I buy you some stuff from Quince? Because you need some more color in your wardrobe. Would you wear it?

Speaker 1:
[17:39] Well, I'm going to say yes. So you pick out something for me and I will wear it and I will love it.

Speaker 2:
[17:45] Luckily, Quince has a ton of great cute options of colorful clothing. So coming your way soon.

Speaker 1:
[17:51] Did I tell you that I actually went outside the norm of clothes and I bought some new earrings from Quince that I love, the mini U-hoops.

Speaker 2:
[17:59] Cannot wait to see it. I'll believe it when I see it.

Speaker 1:
[18:02] We're going to look so stylish next time we're out in the field.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 1:
[18:21] Go to quince.com/proof for free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com/proof. I think it's important to point out to everyone listening that the sergeant who found this eyewitness and convinced him to testify or to point you out was later convicted and sentenced for bank robberies.

Speaker 4:
[18:52] That's another thing, but at my trial, this cop that got me, he had a long history of misconduct, he got long histories of setting guys up, so this guy was the worst of the worst while my trial was going on and while he was investigating this case, setting me up. He was actually suspended from the police force several times, and he was robbing banks. He had an indictment pending against him for 13 counts of bank robbery, and we have the records to show that he actually left my trial and went and robbed the bank and then came back, and they allowed him to sit on the stand and say to the jury that he was a law abider officer, and they allowed him to commit perjury in front of the jury that, hey, he was a law abider officer, done nothing wrong, and a stand up officer, but yet he was suspended at the time that he was on the stand and under investigation for the bank robberies and left my trial and robbed the bank.

Speaker 1:
[19:43] It's like, how can that be true? How can this officer under oath be testifying about how outstanding person he is when he is literally leaving to go rob a bank?

Speaker 4:
[19:53] Right.

Speaker 1:
[19:53] You know, it's just crazy.

Speaker 4:
[19:55] And when the prosecution in the city of Detroit, they know this information, you know, so. But that just goes to show you there's a corrupt system in place that would allow an official to purposely perjure himself to get in a conviction. Right.

Speaker 1:
[20:10] And the jury didn't know. No one knew at the time.

Speaker 4:
[20:13] No. Yeah, it was never made aware to the jury, yeah, of his past misconducts, that he was actually suspended that day. All the jury knew was that, hey, this guy is a law-abiding officer, stand-up officer of 20-something years, homicide detective, you know, five-star citizen, which was totally untrue.

Speaker 1:
[20:32] I think in the end, if I have the facts right, he ultimately was sentenced to 70 months in prison for up to 15 bank robberies.

Speaker 4:
[20:42] He actually went to federal prison, served his time, and was out of prison, 10, 12, 15 years before I got out. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[20:49] Yeah, you still had another decade to go.

Speaker 4:
[20:51] Most definitely. There's so many guys in there that still that this guy set up and they're still in there, probably will die in there because they failed to review all these cases.

Speaker 1:
[21:01] Yeah, that's another injustice. Once you know something like this has happened in one case, and you find out his history of bank robbery and misconduct and whatnot, you have to, you just have to look at every case.

Speaker 4:
[21:14] You would think you would. In a perfect world, you probably would, and we're talking about human and human error, and we're talking about bureaucracy, we're talking about politics. In my opinion, I say that I'm true, but with politics, no matter if you're Republican, no matter if you're Democrat or Independent, you go whichever way the wind is blowing outside.

Speaker 1:
[21:32] Yeah, and political aspirations become more important than individual lives.

Speaker 4:
[21:36] Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[21:37] It's hard to understand.

Speaker 4:
[21:38] Because you have to protect a flawed system. You have to protect a system that should be destroyed.

Speaker 1:
[21:43] Well, and I'm very happy you're out, so congratulations.

Speaker 4:
[21:46] Me too. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1:
[21:48] You haven't been out that long.

Speaker 4:
[21:50] Yeah, 16 months.

Speaker 1:
[21:51] You're like a baby exoneree.

Speaker 4:
[21:53] I won't even say a baby exoneree. I'm like a baby in a new world, because the whole time I was going away, I knew I was getting out of prison one day and I was making plans. But what I didn't realize and what guys in prison, men and women in prison don't realize, you really can't make plans to get out of prison. If you're making plans for when you get out of prison, you're making plans for a world that no longer exists. Because the world that you're making plans for, is the world that you were handcuffed in. For me, I was making plans, but I was making plans for 2002. This was a world before technology, this was a world before Corona, this was a world before all of this stuff. I made plans and I came out of here and I was lost.

Speaker 1:
[22:35] Yeah.

Speaker 4:
[22:35] Because I'm like, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this. But I'm like, I don't know this world.

Speaker 1:
[22:41] Yeah. When you got locked up, people are still using pagers.

Speaker 4:
[22:45] Yeah. And so I tell guys, the best plan you can make is to say, hey, I'm going to educate myself and I'm going to be the best version of myself and I'm going to strive to do this, so I'm going to strive to do that. But if you walk out of prison with a plan saying, hey, I'm going to go do this, you're in a world of trouble, you're probably going back to prison because you're going to be dissatisfied and you're going to be disappointed that your plans didn't work because those plans were for a world that no longer exists.

Speaker 1:
[23:11] It's an aspect of wrongful conviction, exoneration, that I think we need to shed more light on is that people getting out, it's really, really hard. The adjustment is really hard. Like getting out is the first step. It's learning how to survive in this world once you get out.

Speaker 4:
[23:27] You know, you're learning everything because you're getting out of prison and let's just say you don't have nowhere to go. But let's say if you do have somewhere to go and you say, oh, well, I'm going to my mother house, I'm going to go to my father or my girlfriend or my wife or whatever case may be. Okay, but you don't know this person. You only know this person over telephone. You only know this person over visits. This person is not the same person they was when you met them. So with each day, with each second we change, we evolve. So you've been in prison 10, 12, 15 years, 20 years, and you say, I'm going to go back home to this family that I know and love. Mentally, that's not the same family. So you have to come home and learn that family all over again, learn their triggers, learn what they like, learn what they don't like. They have to learn you. Everything is a learning. You have to learn what size clothes you wear.

Speaker 1:
[24:18] Yeah. Someone's not telling you what to eat, someone's not telling you what to wear.

Speaker 4:
[24:23] Everything is a learned process. So you're coming out here to a world that you have to learn everything all over again.

Speaker 1:
[24:29] You're learning it at a disadvantage. Now, you have a 22-year gap in your work history that you have to explain to people. You don't have a savings account for the last 22 years.

Speaker 4:
[24:42] You don't even have ID. You don't have anything.

Speaker 1:
[24:43] Yeah. Nothing. You come up with nothing.

Speaker 4:
[24:46] Yeah. So it's designed for failure. Because if you're talking about a person that is wrongly convicted, there is no reentry. What does reentry look like for an exonerate? What does reentry look like for a wrongly convicted person? There is no reentry because you have a death sentence or you have a life sentence, so that the prison is not prepping you or giving you no class to reenter society. Because they're saying, hey, you're going to die. So the day that you go to court and you win your freedom, that was your reentry that 30-minute hearing. Hey, you're free. Walk out, learn it all over again.

Speaker 1:
[25:23] It's yet another injustice on top of injustice.

Speaker 4:
[25:27] Yes.

Speaker 5:
[25:37] For years, Gone South has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens. Through deeply reported narrative-driven stories and conversations with journalists, historians, musicians, and people who've lived these stories firsthand, we're digging into the myths, scandals and power structures that still shape the South, and in a lot of ways, the country itself. From reexamining the cultural meaning of the Alamo to tracing the family history of Alex Murdoch to investigating the federal indictment of New Orleans' former mayor, each episode stands alone. But together, they paint a picture of what this region really is and how it came to be. With 40 new episodes released weekly, Gone South is a show for people who want to understand how history lingers and why it still matters now. Follow and listen to Gone South Season 5, an Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows.

Speaker 6:
[26:46] When a young woman's car is found abandoned on a New Jersey bridge, detectives want to know how did she simply vanish into the night?

Speaker 3:
[26:55] Nobody knew where she was. It was a 19-year-old girl who would have normally been attached to her phone and she was off the grid.

Speaker 6:
[27:04] Secrets, trust and a friend's ultimate betrayal. I'm Juju Cheng from 2020 and ABC Audio. Listen now to Bridge of Lies wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1:
[27:21] Tell me a little bit about Scott Baldwin. Last year in September, Scott Baldwin was, there was a resentencing hearing and Olivia from the Michigan Innocence Clinic and with the organization of exonerees gathered up a few people to come show support for the resentencing. My understanding is you got there and you didn't really know who you were there to support and then Scott comes in and you recognized him.

Speaker 4:
[27:48] Right. Olivia, who's one of the attorneys at the Michigan's Innocence Clinic who helped secure my freedom that I'm forever, that's my family. The Michigan Innocence Clinic, that's my family and I'm forever indebted to them. So she gave me a call and was telling me that she was having a hearing for one of her clients. It would be a resentencing and she gave me some general background and she was like, Hey LaVonne, I would really like for you to be there. Anytime the Michigan Innocence Clinic call me, I stop doing what I'm doing. So I get down here to the hearing, we sit in the court and when Scott came out, I couldn't believe it because I'm like, I'm like, man, that's my guy. You know, we spent a lot of time on the prison yard, just general talking in the law. I was a law library clerk at one time. I helped a lot of guys with legal cases and legal information. So he was one of the guys that used to come to me and ask me questions and ask me what books to read. And he would talk about his case and stuff like that. Just, you know, very minimal because in there, you can't really talk about a lot with your case because you have people that write to prosecutors and try to tell lies to cut a deal and make stuff up. So when I seen Scott come out, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, I'm like, that's my guy. So I'm looking at him and I'm like, wow. You know, to see him in that medical condition, you know, I'm like, wow. So he was looking around. And so when I got his attention, you know, we locked eyes. And so I tapped my chest like, and I'm like, that's my guy. So I told Olivia, I'm like, you know, that's my guy, so on, so on, so on. So, so he looking back and we was kind of communicating through the eyes and I'm talking and whatever, trying to, cause I'm like on the second row. And so after the hearing, when we were back at the restaurant, he called in and I had a chance to talk with him. And I'm like, man, you remember? He like, oh, I remember you, man. It's good to see you. He like, I never expected to see him. Like, I would have never expected to see you either. So I told him how I went. And it was just, was a beautiful full circle moment, you know, but it was also, it was a hurtful moment just to see, you know, to see a friend of mine that I walked to prison yard with. And I'm going to share this with you, you know, because like I've been going to therapy since I've been home. And one time they told me, they say, LaVone, even though it may be true or not, they say, you know, you have survivor's remorse. And I'm like, why do you say that? And they're like, but you're dealing with all these guys in prison and you're attached to all these guys in prison for all these years and you're feeling bad because you're home and you made it out. And I had to think about that for a couple of days. I'm like, wow. So those feelings was coming back when I'm seeing him. And I'm like, you know, like, there's a lot of good guys in there that I've met. Scott was one of the good guys that I met that deserved his freedom, that deserved a second chance at life. And so, you know, but I knew that he had had basically like a year to live. And that was the reason for the emergency hearing. And so it just, it really hurt me. But I was happy that I had the opportunity to talk with him. You know, I wanted to go and see him when he was released. So the couple of days later, when I got the phone call that he had passed away, you know, it really hurt me. I'm like, but I'm like, I'm like, what a beauty of it was that he was able to depart with family at home and not like an animal in that cage, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:10] So he really, really wanted to get home and he made it home. He held on just long enough to get home, to die with his family, his children nearby. I remember talking to Scott over the years and he was fighting to prove his innocence. He didn't do this. There's no evidence that he did it. He wanted to prove his innocence and at some point when the cancer got worse and he knew his terminal, it was like, I just want to go home. I just want to go home. The resentencing was his path to get home.

Speaker 4:
[31:43] Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[31:44] But his legacy lives on because of Scott. Not only have we looked into his case and I think proven that he's innocent, but because of him, we're looking at all the cases solved by the Kalamazoo Cold Case Team and Scott's legacy lives on through all these other people who are in prison and who deserve to have their cases looked at again. I'm glad you could be there too.

Speaker 4:
[32:08] Yeah, for sure. I've been to a bunch of them since I've been home. So I'm doing my part. I know I got a debt to pay to society. So I just tap into the strength and keep it pushing.

Speaker 1:
[32:20] You know what amazes me? Talking to you or talking to any of the exonerees, I've met the other guys who are with you that day at Scott's Resentencing. I'm always blown away that it doesn't seem like you hold on to this bitterness or hate or revenge. Like none of those feelings I would expect rightfully for you to feel.

Speaker 4:
[32:45] So just speaking from personal experience, you know, it's case by case and it's guy by guy. Just because I don't feel that way. You know, we have a lot of people that are exonerated or wrongly convicted and they are mad at the world. You know, they hate everybody. They hate the system. But in my situation, I was 25 when I went in. And so, I grew to understand that everything that happens to me in my life happens for a reason and that who am I to question the reason? Okay, I can question it, but who am I to question the reason? Don't question the reason. Just try to understand the reason and make the best of it. Make the best of it. You know, you may have a purpose. That may have been my purpose was to be in prison and to affect change on God's life that was in prison. Because I helped a lot of guys get out of prison, that got out of prison before me. And I would be sitting there like, yeah, I helped another one. You know, I always knew that I had a debt to pay to society. And even in my hearing, when I went to court, the judge was like, well, LaVone, I know you mad. I know you bitter. I know you may be angry about what happened to you at all these years. And I told her, I said, well, actually, I'm not mad or bitter. I said, because I told you when I was going to trial, because I went in front of the same judge that I was going to reach in front of. I said, I told you, Dean, that I was innocent, and you told me you didn't really care. But that I told her, I say, but no, I'm not mad or angry or bitter. I say, I thank you. I told her, I said, I thank you for what you've done to me. I didn't tell her happy, but I said, but I thank y'all for what y'all done to me. I say, because based on what y'all done to me, y'all made me the man that I am today. I told her, I said, I could never have been this man without going through that experience. I say, so thank you for what you've done to me. So I understand the transfer and the power and taking the power back, because if I was to be angry and if I was to be bitter and if I was to be, I can never evolve and continue to be me.

Speaker 1:
[34:43] Right. If you're still carrying all of that, then they're still winning.

Speaker 4:
[34:46] Like I say, because when we started this out, even when I was in prison all those years, I didn't carry it. I never carried that conviction. I had a piece of paper that said, hey, you're going to die in prison. I had that, but I never carried that conviction. Like I said, and again, it's probably because I didn't believe it, but I never carried it. I never would allow it to infest me. Now, did I have some times that I was strong and some time that I was weak? Yes. I had some times where I was like, man, man, man. Yes, but I never carried it. I tell my people this all the time. When I got home, I was looking at my children, I was looking at my wife, my mother, my father, and I saw that conviction on them. I saw the effects of that conviction on them. I'm like, wow, y'all are messed up. I'm like, why are y'all so traumatized and so hurt and so scarred? When I'm not, but I thought about it, I say, you know what? I say, all those years, they were feeling the effects of it because I call home and say, hey, I was just denied, or this court just denied me, and they had time to sit in it and the pressure beat them up. But with me, I would get denied and the next day, I'm in the law library reading books, I'm typing up the next petition. So I was always in war mode. So I never had time to feel the effects of it. But now, I got home and I seen the effects on them. Then about a week or two later, I woke up one morning and I'm like, I just sat on the side of the bed. I'm like, all of them years, I was carrying the weight of that conviction on me. I just didn't know that I had that monkey on my back.

Speaker 1:
[36:34] Right.

Speaker 4:
[36:37] So like I say, so it's now I'm peeling back the layers. I'm in therapy, doing a lot of self-help, meditation, prayer, because it's now that I am feeling the effects of the conviction now that I'm home.

Speaker 1:
[36:52] Right. Now that you actually have time to relax. To relax.

Speaker 4:
[36:56] Exactly. Now that I'm a little over in war mode, I'm trying to decompress. I can't decompress because I'm like, oh, oh, man. So yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:
[37:09] Well, LaVone, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

Speaker 4:
[37:12] Without a doubt. Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1:
[37:14] Sharing your story and you're definitely an inspiration to a lot of people and you keep on doing the good work.

Speaker 4:
[37:21] Almost there. I just secured a beautiful job. I'm a Wayne County Juvenile Detention Specialist.

Speaker 1:
[37:26] Amazing.

Speaker 4:
[37:27] Working in Wayne County with the juveniles inside the facility. I got a career. I got a beautiful career.

Speaker 1:
[37:34] That's amazing. I can tell you're going to help a lot of people.

Speaker 4:
[37:37] Without a doubt. Yes, ma'am. So I'm taking lemons and making lemonade.

Speaker 2:
[37:46] Thanks for listening to the special Sidebar. And thanks to LaVone Hill for sharing his story with us. Even though Season 3 is over, we'll continue to be back with Sidebars and new episodes about some of the other Kalamazoo cold cases. So stay tuned for more. We're also hoping it won't be too long now, before we're back with an important update on Season 2 and Jake Silva.

Speaker 1:
[38:13] You've been listening to Proof, Sidebar, a podcast by Red Marble Media in association with Glass Box Media. Send us your questions and comments at proofcrimepod.gmail.com. Follow us everywhere with the handle at Proof Crime Pod and on our website proofcrimepod.com. Thanks so much for listening.