transcript

Speaker 1:
[00:02] The 2026 Chevy Equinox is more than an SUV. It's your Sunday tailgate and your parking lot snack bar. Your lucky jersey, your chairs, and your big cooler fit perfectly in your even bigger cargo space. And when it's go time, your 11.3 inch diagonal touch screens got the playbook, the playlist, and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an SUV. It's your Equinox. Chevrolet, together let's drive.

Speaker 2:
[00:39] Hey friends, welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls Podcast. I'm Sissy Goff.

Speaker 3:
[00:43] And I'm David Thomas, and we're so glad you joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in.

Speaker 2:
[00:56] Okay, let's start with a moment most parents of elementary school-age kids have had. Your child is sitting at the table, staring at homework, and after a long pause says, I can't do this.

Speaker 3:
[01:10] Or, this is too hard. I'm bad at math. I don't want to go.

Speaker 2:
[01:16] And something in you feels it immediately, because this is different than toddler defiance. This feels like self-doubt or even anxiety.

Speaker 3:
[01:26] And what if that moment right there is one of the most important moments for building capability?

Speaker 2:
[01:32] We said that one more time.

Speaker 3:
[01:33] Yes. And what if that moment right there is one of the most important moments for building capability?

Speaker 2:
[01:41] Because elementary school is where kids begin asking, am I someone who can handle hard things? We often think of elementary school as a little easier. We've moved out of the neediness and constant moms of the toddler age. But also we haven't quite hit the angsty adolescents. But developmentally, you all, these are anything but easy years. There's so much happening physically, socially, emotionally, and they still don't have the words to describe it.

Speaker 3:
[02:12] Yeah. And this is when kids step into the world in a new way. School, friendships, performance, comparison.

Speaker 2:
[02:21] And for the first time, they're not just asking, can I do it? They're actually asking, how do I compare? And potentially even, what's wrong with me that I don't? Or that I don't measure up? Or that no one wants to sit with me?

Speaker 3:
[02:36] Which is when anxiety starts to show up, doesn't it?

Speaker 2:
[02:38] Yes. And research is actually telling us something really important here, you guys. These elementary school years are a critical window for mental health. Many anxiety disorders begin in childhood, often between the ages of 6 and 11. So what we're seeing in these years isn't just a phase, it's formative in the lives of the kids we love.

Speaker 3:
[03:01] And here's what's so important. Resilience isn't something kids either have or don't have.

Speaker 2:
[03:07] It's something that can be built. There was a large review published in Current Opinion in Psychiatry that looked across multiple studies of children and adolescents and what they found was really consistent, you all. Kids with higher levels of resilience had fewer symptoms of anxiety and depression and better overall mental health.

Speaker 3:
[03:30] Which means when we're building capability, we're actually building mental health.

Speaker 2:
[03:36] Which is so important in this day and time. And you all, here's the tension in these years. The temptation is to step in faster, explain more, rescue quicker, because now the stakes feel higher.

Speaker 3:
[03:49] But here's the truth. If we remove every hard thing, we remove the very place where capability grows. Resilience research tells us that kids don't build confidence from success alone. They build it from mastery after struggle. Let me say that again. They build it from mastery after struggle. That moment of this is hard, and I stayed, and I figured it out.

Speaker 2:
[04:15] So let's talk about what we're actually seeing in elementary-age kiddos right now.

Speaker 3:
[04:20] First, as we have talked so much about on this podcast, but we can't talk too much about is anxiety. So more kids are anxious than ever, and more kids are anxious earlier. And as we've talked about before, they're overestimating the problem or the situation, and they're underestimating their ability to handle it. The problem feels too big, they feel too small.

Speaker 2:
[04:43] So number one anxiety, number two, anger. And what's confusing is what looks like anger is often overwhelmed. Big feelings plus low regulation skills equals explosion. And I think you would, David, describe anger as a complaint from so many parents of boys, and I would describe control as a complaint for so many parents of girls. And their anger emerging from this need to control that often has its root back to anxiety, which probably does for boys so much of the time too.

Speaker 3:
[05:21] Oh, think how often when we teach on boys and girls, I will say somewhere around nine to ten, boys begin to channel all primary emotions, sadness, fear, all things, disappointment, confusion, embarrassment into one emotion. And before I even say the word, everybody in the audience knows it. They all yell out anger. It's so intuitive. It's like a default emotion for boys. And I think it's an emotion that we support boys having. We're messaging to boys in a lot of different ways. Like it's not okay to be sad. It's not okay to be fearful, but it's 100% okay to be male and angry. So we got to dig beneath to what's going on.

Speaker 2:
[06:00] Yes, and I think with so many parents of girls, it does become transitions, unpredictability, not getting the present they wanted, being told no, that they get so angry because of that need for control. And I think in lieu of healthy coping strategies for girls, their primary coping strategy becomes exactly that, control, controlling you, controlling the entire house. And we love the work of Tina Payne-Briessen and Dan Siegel. We cannot say enough about the two of them. And they are the ones who talk about all behavior as communication. And so we want to dig underneath. When we see anger, what might be going on? And when I talk to parents, there are a few questions I typically ask. When they're describing that, I'll say, tell me when you're seeing it the most. And then one of my first questions with parents of youngers is, is there anything about the tag in their shirt? Or the seams in their socks? Will you talk more about that? Because I know you're sending a lot of people to OTT.

Speaker 3:
[06:59] You and I are both flying over that space with regularity. Which feels so important, you know, kids who are intuitively covering their ears when things feel too loud.

Speaker 2:
[07:09] Who run into you a little too often.

Speaker 3:
[07:10] Absolutely.

Speaker 2:
[07:11] It can be that sensory seeking.

Speaker 3:
[07:13] And we are huge fans of pediatric occupational therapists. They are some of the most gifted clinicians out there. And I can't count the times that I have encouraged parents who have kids who are triggered in some of these ways to do an OT evaluation. Just to get some confirmation, to get some clarity. And that if we are to find, yes, there are some significant sensory hurdles or even just as I sometimes call them some milder sensory hiccups that are going on. That if we can silence those sensory sirens, which is what pediatric OTs do, it can change the game. So that these amazing kids aren't in this state of hyper reactivity so often. So again, you all, we have seen it be game changing work. It's foundational. I would also say, I don't know if you find this to be true, that there are certain kids that I think benefit from a couple of cycles. So maybe they do one cycle of OT in two, three, four years, and they might go back and do a second cycle a little later on, just some adding another foundational building block on a great foundation that's already been laid.

Speaker 2:
[08:22] I'm so glad for you to say that because I've talked to a lot of parents who say, we've already done OT, rather than realizing we might need to go back and have a little tweaking of the things that we learned. And we've talked about this a lot, but I think what we love with OT too is you're learning zones of regulation. They're learning such important skills. And so it really can be a game changer. And if you've done OT or you feel like my child does not fit any of those markers and it is control related, that's where I kind of adapt the Worry Monster language to the Control Monster language. And we even reward and reinforce when kids are using healthy coping strategies instead of defaulting towards control. And so I'll talk about brave beads for kids who are controlling because I wished someone had told me when I was younger, it's brave to trust someone else, to let go of the control that you're grasping for. We love Suzanne Stabile who says, control is an illusion. It's my favorite illusion, but it's still an illusion. And you all, I wish somebody had helped me with that younger. So think about what might be happening underneath the anger if that's what you're seeing. Will you talk about the third thing we're seeing?

Speaker 3:
[09:31] I'd love to, lack of regulation. I don't think I could talk too much about this, as I think on the families of boys I've sat with over the years who've talked about struggling this space.

Speaker 2:
[09:44] Okay, I need to confess something. Patches staged a silent protest this week.

Speaker 3:
[09:49] A protest?

Speaker 2:
[09:50] She could not get settled in my bed, circling, sighing dramatically, flopping down, getting back up. And then I realized I had washed the bedding and forgot to put the Boll & Branch sheets back on.

Speaker 3:
[10:01] Uh-oh. Do you have some entitlement to work through?

Speaker 2:
[10:04] Yes.

Speaker 3:
[10:05] In her defense, I get it. She's got great taste. And here's the thing, most people keep their bedding way longer than they should.

Speaker 2:
[10:13] Sheets start pilling, corners pop off, pillows flatten. You don't realize how much it's affecting your sleep until you finally replace it.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
[10:40] Even dogs can tell.

Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
[11:24] Or where we parked the car.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
[12:49] Okay, I have to tell you a story.

Speaker 3:
[12:51] Please.

Speaker 2:
[12:52] I walked patches every morning in my neighborhood and I was walking and turned the corner and saw a friend this week who said, You're in my ear! I said, What do you mean? She was listening to the podcast, listening to one of the capable episodes and she said, Okay, I need you to talk specifically about neurodivergence because I have a child who's neurodivergent and this child has an especially hard time regulating. She said, I totally identified with that story of the mom on the plane where you're trying and you're trying and trying. It's not that I'm stepping in too early, which you all, it's so easy for any of us to be guilty of doing. She said, I'm really trying to help my child develop the skills and it seems slower. What do you do? What next? She was like, I mean, literally we were walking away from each other. We were probably a half block away. She was like, That's my question. What next? So if you're listening, friend, here we go.

Speaker 3:
[13:49] It's an important question for us to circle around. And what we want to say as we think about neurodivergence is these amazing kids moving at their own individual pace. And the research would say that ADHD kids, for example, are 30% behind developmentally. A lot of clinicians talk about it as the three-year rule, which is there's going to be some kind of gap between their chronological age and their emotional and social age. So we're simply wanting to honor their individual pace and playing some catch up and laboring longer. That's the language I want you to hold on. These amazing kids are still capable of skill development, but we're going to need to labor longer. We may need to do some extra remedial work in those spaces. I think about my wife as a learning specialist has to talk with a lot of parents of her amazing kids about doing some remedial work in the summer so that when they start the race of the next school year, they don't feel so behind. Think about this being some of these amazing kids' extra work in the emotional social space that they're going to be playing catch up with over the summer so that when they start the school year, they've been flexing those muscles right and left. You want to talk about another one?

Speaker 2:
[15:03] Let's talk about the last one, the fourth one, which would be lack of agency.

Speaker 3:
[15:09] This may be the biggest one.

Speaker 2:
[15:11] Right, because kids start to believe someone else will fix this, someone else will handle this instead of, I can do something about this. I haven't told you this, but I had dinner with the Webbers, with my nephews, Henry and Whit, the other night. I walked in and Henry was making guacamole. He asked permission, which was amazing, and he was just pulling out the avocados and the onions. He knew how to do it because he had done it before with his dad. He definitely pulled out the pizza cutter to slice the veggies. He does have a kid knife that's a little bit better in his house. But in that moment, I thought, I love that you're making guacamole because even thinking I can do this means I can do other things in his first grade mind.

Speaker 3:
[15:55] You know what I'm thinking? It's his wife someday is going to be like, I love that this guy's been making guacamole for a lot of years. He's got his skills down.

Speaker 2:
[16:03] Oh, yes. Okay, so let's talk about, I love when we talk about the practical things. Let's give parents something really practical. What do elementary age kids actually need to build capability? And when researchers study resilience more closely, they don't just see one thing. They see a combination of protective factors, just like we're talking about before. Emotional regulation, supportive relationships, and problem-solving skills. Researchers actually describe resilience as a multi-system process, meaning it's built through what's happening inside the child and around the child.

Speaker 3:
[16:47] Which is exactly what we're talking about with capability.

Speaker 2:
[16:51] So four things that tie into the exact same four that we were talking about before. Number one, regulation. Kids need to learn to know how to calm themselves. We move from co-regulation to them regulating on their own. Not perfectly, not instantly, it's going to take some practice, but increasingly. And this doesn't always happen when we step in first.

Speaker 3:
[17:16] We want to move from I'll fix it for you to I'll sit with you while you figure out how to calm down.

Speaker 2:
[17:23] Yes, yes.

Speaker 3:
[17:24] Moving towards statements like, you and I have been practicing great strategies together. Which one do you want to try out right now? Moving kids along that journey from co-regulation to self-regulation.

Speaker 2:
[17:37] Saying what's one thing you can do to calm your body down. And in fact, one thing we would love for you to do tonight, around the dinner table, have everybody have a piece of paper and a pen, and everybody either write down or they can even draw pictures of ten things they know they can do when their body and their emotions get dysregulated. Taking deep breaths, punching a little bozo bop it thing, playing with bubble wrap, drawing. There are a million things kids can do. Having a verse that they say over and over to themselves. We want every child, whatever age, to have ten back pocket coping strategies.

Speaker 3:
[18:15] All right, number two, boundaries. Boundaries are still essential at this age.

Speaker 2:
[18:21] And we're seeing some confusion, like we've been talking about, culturally around boundaries. And there's so much emphasis on empathy, which we feel like is so important. We always want to start with empathy, but kids need empathy and structure.

Speaker 3:
[18:37] Support and challenge.

Speaker 2:
[18:39] Yes, simple, clear, calm language, calm grownups. You may not talk to me that way. I'm going to help you reset. We're going to try that again.

Speaker 3:
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Speaker 2:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 3:
[20:22] You know, we are firm believers that we all need a little more laughter and a whole lot more grace.

Speaker 2:
[20:28] And if you are raising a child with ADHD, dyslexia, autism, or another learning and thinking difference, you know how intense some days can feel. The advocacy, the school meetings, the meltdowns, the moments when you wonder if you're getting any of it right.

Speaker 3:
[20:43] If that hits home, we recently found a podcast we think you'll really appreciate. It's called Everyone Gets a Juice Box for Parents of Neurodivergent Kids.

Speaker 2:
[20:52] Check out a few episodes, including one about parenting regrets after an ADHD and autism diagnosis, and another about how, quote, fine isn't always fine when it comes to dyslexia.

Speaker 3:
[21:04] You'll appreciate the tone, it's honest, it's warm, it's funny in the way that only parents who truly get it can be. You can hear the relief in their voices when they realize they're not alone. It feels like sitting down with other parents who understand the mysteries, the multiple diagnosis, and the beauty in the middle of it all.

Speaker 2:
[21:21] If you could use that kind of community and encouragement, we really think you'll like it.

Speaker 3:
[21:26] To listen, search for Everyone Gets a Juice Box in your podcast app.

Speaker 2:
[21:30] That's Everyone Gets a Juice Box.

Speaker 3:
[21:36] Boundaries don't damage connection. Boundaries don't disrupt attachment. We've been talking about that. They actually create safety. And yes, it is still okay to offer consequences. We love consequences that increase incrementally and that move kids toward repair.

Speaker 2:
[21:54] So examples of that would be, I'm going to need your tablet for the next 30 minutes. Now I'm going to need your tablet for the next hour. Your car keys for the next day. Now I'm going to need your car keys for the next two days. And repair with siblings we love when siblings have a consequence of having to do a sibling's chores. Write them an apology letter, draw them an apology picture that we're thinking about.

Speaker 3:
[22:15] Giving back in some way.

Speaker 2:
[22:16] Yes, exactly. Third, agency. And what research says is one of the strongest predictors of resilience is something we don't talk about nearly enough. Agency, which we would say is capability. And kids only learn that they're capable by experience, by opportunity. This belief of I can do something about this.

Speaker 3:
[22:43] And research backs that up. When kids develop internal strengths like confidence, goal setting, and problem solving, those become protective factors against long-term mental health struggles.

Speaker 2:
[22:55] So important. And so instead of solving the problem for them, we start with empathy. That sounds really hard. And then we ask the questions. Questions like, what do you think you could do? What's one small step? How have you handled something like this before? You know, thinking about teaching kids to problem solve, one of the best people I've ever watched do this is Melissa Trevathan.

Speaker 3:
[23:21] Oh my goodness. She's so good at it.

Speaker 2:
[23:23] Our founder and senior director, as you all know. And the first retreat I ever went on with Daystar, I was in grad school, it's 23, and we were going camping. And we got to the campsite and one of the kids yelled out, we don't have the tent. And this chaos ensued of the tent had been forgotten. And these kids somehow worked, I don't even remember how they worked it out. And at the time I thought, I can't believe Melissa forgot the tent on a camping experience for kids. Now I realize, I bet she left the tent at home on purpose. You all, we also, she also has had us before, act like the boats were broken down. We have boats at our little summer retreat program. And I will say, we're a non-profit. We are not this summer camp that Mastercraft donates us boats every summer. And so we have some old boats and they break down. And it's fascinating to watch the kids come together and problem solve how we're going to figure it out. And so there was a year that I remember all of our boats were running really too well. And so Melissa told the staff, we're going to pretend like all the boats are broken down. Now, the kids got out and pushed and we did tell them the truth later and they were a little mad at us. But you all have that sense of where, and it's something we would want to ask you too, coping strategies also, where can you create an opportunity this week for your kids, not just to problem solve on their own, but problem solve for your family, that you say, I really need your help, and let them work through and figure something out and support them and cheer them on along the way. Maybe don't tell them an untruth in the process.

Speaker 3:
[25:08] Well, and speaking of that word, support, that's a great transition into the fourth idea, which is connection. We just finished recording a fantastic interview with Dr. Ken Ginsberg, one of the leading experts in building resilience with kids. And we cannot wait for that episode to come out. Hang on, you all. And we talked repeatedly about this idea of connection and how foundational it is in building resilience and capability. And all of what we've been talking about only works if that connection, that foundation of connection is in place, because kids will only take risk when they feel safe.

Speaker 2:
[25:46] He said connection is the cornerstone of resilience. And connection says, you are loved no matter what. And capability says, and you can do hard things. And we want the kids we love to hear both.

Speaker 3:
[25:59] And elementary kids are capable of so much more than we often expect. So let's make a list of things elementary age kids can do.

Speaker 2:
[26:07] Okay, I'm excited about this. Making guacamole.

Speaker 3:
[26:10] Fantastic. Packing their own backpack.

Speaker 2:
[26:14] Yes, making a simple lunch.

Speaker 3:
[26:16] Helping with laundry.

Speaker 2:
[26:18] Taking out the trash.

Speaker 3:
[26:19] Managing homework with support but not takeover.

Speaker 2:
[26:24] Feeding pets.

Speaker 3:
[26:25] Helping younger siblings.

Speaker 2:
[26:27] Cleaning their room. Not perfectly, but attempting.

Speaker 3:
[26:30] You ready for this? Setting alarms and learning to begin to get themselves up.

Speaker 2:
[26:35] Okay, and I just talked to a mom this week whose daughter won't get up, that the alarm is just not loud. And there are, you can find alarm clocks that are especially loud. And you, there's an alarm clock out there that goes off really loud next to their head. And then it has a rolling mechanism, and it hits the floor and it rolls around the room. So they have to get up to turn it off. Isn't that awesome? We need them to sponsor our podcast.

Speaker 3:
[27:00] We do.

Speaker 2:
[27:01] We'll link to it in the show notes. The reality, you all, in all these things, is kids don't need to do it perfectly. But what they need to know is, I'm someone who can do hard things.

Speaker 3:
[27:11] Yeah. We are raising kids in a culture that avoids discomfort, moves quickly to solutions, values performance over process, and elementary school is where that pressure really begins.

Speaker 2:
[27:24] Yes. And you all, resilience research is so clear. Kids don't need, won't have, but don't need a life without stress. They need manageable stress with support. Because resilience is the ability to adapt and do well in the presence of challenge, not in the absence of it.

Speaker 3:
[27:45] That is so important.

Speaker 2:
[27:48] And one more thing I think is really hopeful, that even when kids experience adversity, even trauma, you all, many still develop resilience. In fact, research says the majority of kids who experience trauma develop resilience on the other side, that we don't talk enough about post-traumatic growth. We talk so much about post-traumatic stress. We have seen it time and time again. Because you all know, it's not just research that communicates that to us, it's scripture too. And we know the truth that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance character, and character hope. We cannot say that enough.

Speaker 3:
[28:30] So here's a few last reminders. One, pause before rescuing. Two, help them shrink the problem. And three, ask instead of tell them what to do.

Speaker 2:
[28:44] We have a friend who has a three-minute rule. And when her kids start fighting, she waits three minutes to let them figure it out on their own before they intervene. Whatever the situation is that your child is experiencing some distress, manageable distress that you know to be true, give them three minutes. I love that idea of pause before rescuing. Four, teach regulation skills and practice them in front of them on your own. Because as David always says, kids learn more from observation than information. Five, hold boundaries with calm. And six, give real responsibilities because you all these years matter so much.

Speaker 3:
[29:24] Because this is when kids decide, am I capable or do I need someone else to handle life for me?

Speaker 2:
[29:31] Every time your child says, I can't, you have an opportunity to help them get to, I think I can, and gain the confidence and competence and capability that comes with that statement. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible.

Speaker 3:
[29:54] Chris Starritt, our engineer, our management team at KCH, and we are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A.

Speaker 2:
[30:08] If this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing, all the things.

Speaker 3:
[30:15] We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.

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